Options For Our Cast Bullet Lubrication Procedures
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2017
- With powder coating being the lubrication procedure of choice for many of today's cast bullet shooters, let's look at the available options for the lubrication of our lead bullets...
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Excellent video and channel!
Bought a 38-55 a few months back. I appreciate the time you put in to your videos.
Thank you
Thanks for the video on this. Your always very informative!
Dennis Radermacher - Google did not post your comment in my inbox - just happened to stumble onto it... Thanks for your comment. Much appreciated and please comment again whenever you desire... Google does not seem to have any rhyme or reason to what they leave out of inboxes. Best Regards, FC
I got 25 to 50 fps faster velocity using powder coating + sizing and the bullets found down range looked very clean and had nice perfect rifle marks.
Excellent video FC, you have answered my question. As a new caster I really like the powder coating for low velocity rounds. As for high velocity gas checks are a must along with the powder coat. Thanks again Elmer and keep up the good work.
Excellent Video - Thank You.
Love your videos
Excellent idea trying lube on top of the powdercoating to improve accuracy . I hadn't thought of that one.
I have some expensive guns and go the extra mile to keep barrels free from lead. I've been doing the P/C and lube for quite some time now, and experience accuracy and no lead deposits in my barrels. I do this for several calibers ie; 380, 9mm, 40, 38Spl, 357, 45ACP, 45LC, S&W 50, and 8mm Mauser.
Can't add pics but powdercoat the first time and bake them. Cool 15 min coat again and bake a second time, uniform results everytime.
Very informative. Thank you.
First, thanks for making so many great videos - I'm in my first year of Cowboy Action Shooting and having a blast, and just bought my fifth cowboy gun, a Henry single shot .45-70 and plan to reload just as I do my .38/.357s. I use all LEE equipment, and would like to know the specifics of the 45/45/10 you mentioned. I was going the ALOX route with tumble lubing, because I am looking for the easiest method while doing the proper job. Suggestions and the formula please.
Thank you for the video.
I think the duplex lube of PC & your standard lube of choice would be a good way to go . If the PC bullet was large for bore size it may help them get down the barrel with less friction ?? Or it may help the PC stay on . Good to have options ! Thanks !
Some more good info.
You forgot the Star one step push through sizer. They work great!!
Very interested in the topic of combining powder coating with lube. I saw a video of a gentleman shooting some powdercoated and lubed 357 bullets from loads of bacon. He shot a group of powdercoated only, then a group of powdercoated plus loads of bacon lube (50/50 beeswax and rendered bacon fat). Both grouped well, but the bullets that had lube clocked about 100fps faster. Seems very substantial for pistol velocity and nothing else different. Fortune cookie 45, do you also see increased velocity when you add lube to your powdercoated bullets?
Very informative video..thanks
What resizing die are you using for your 405 cast bullets in you 45-70 Marlin..would like to purchase one
Any information would be greatly appreciated..thanks
Hey FC - thanks for the informative video which has probably come closest to answering a question i have - Powder Coated Bullets used with black powder? Mainly 45LC & 45/70 shooting - I am going down that rabbit hole at present as I have a few thousand powder coated bullets to use up. I am assuming that BP lube will be essential in conjunction with the coated bullets for BP so as to keep the fouling soft as possible - wondering if you have any experience with this?
With Cowboy shooting, powder coated bullets are the way to go, but it's sure nice to have all these choices. Thanks FC 🔫🔫
Nick J - for low vel shooting, the 45/45/10, quick and easy, is the least amount of work and effort. Have a great day, FC
@@FortuneCookie45LC do you have an email or something I could reach out to you with I have questions and have no idea where to start your videos are great but I'd like to know more and do not know anyone who does there own cast bullets so I'm kinda on my own
Great video. Could I ask you about LazerCast Bullets. How are these? I never hear you talk about those? Are they maintenance free? I want to use them in my Winchester 44 Mag, and my Smith & Wesson revolvers. Your opinion would be appreciated. Thanks.
I am wanting to reload some 223 using cast and powder coated bullets, they would need gas checks correct? As far as resizing goes would you suggest resizing pc bullets as a given. I saw in your other vid that the perfect resizer in your barrel, done by shooting them. I can get behind that!
Please do a video on the process for sizing and regular groove lubrication of cast .38 cal. lead cast bullets.
Greetings, FortuneCookie45 LC
I have just recently started cast bullets after watching many of your videos. I have a Lee 2 cavity tumble lube 9mm 125 gr RN mold, and have cast some very nice bullets from it. I want to use these and run them in my RCBS Lube-O- Matic II press with a conventional beeswax based lube. Do you see any safety issues with this?
Thanks, and please keep all these great videos coming.
Reddog
Question Has any one tried the powder coating or Hi-Tek coating for Black Powder pistols? I have finally decided to try casting, and of course lubing is especially necessary for Black Powder. Thanks in advance for your input.
Ok FC45LC. Got a question for you. I have the Lee 124gr tc tumble lube mold enroute. I understand I can tumble lube the round with Liquid Alox, but is it okay to pan lube this bullet? I realize it takes longer to do, but I don't mind putting in the time... Thanks for your video's......
Part 2: I think I got my answer at 13:00min in the video....
New to casting lead bullets I bought the lee TL-356-124-2r mold for 9 mm I also bought the lee 356 resizing die before I seen this video
So my question is can I powder coat this bullet and not use the alox
Also my resizing die instructions say to lube bullets before running them through the die or it can foul the die with lead if I do this then I would have to clean them before I powder coated them
That is if this bullet can be powder coated
I also ask is the tumble lube bullet made to use gas checks? Just by using my resizing die?
Although I really don’t know yet much about the gas checks
Thank you
Hey FortuneCokie! I just started casting an I have the same Lee 45-70 mold. I found that I had to seat the bullets deeper or they would not chamber in my Henry Model X. Whats your experience with seating depth?
Years ago there was an article on using lead bullets in hotter loads. It was shown that you could cut thin foam disc from like meat trays to be used as a gas check. To prevent the base of the bullet from being melted the disc prevented that and it was vaporized so left no residue. You always had to try what you read about so loaded .357 rounds with the disc and the recovered bullets the bases looked just like cast. No leading of the cylinder forcing cone compared to bullets not having the disc. When you said which method was easier you forgot the powder coated still needs to be sized one at a time just like a conventional lube sizer method, so the powder coating is a LOT more work. They also look like crap.
GV - I've used milk carton cardboard punched out for 777 wads with great results with cast bullets. And no wads with standard velocity cast bullet smokeless loads. For hotter loads, casting with linotype and conventional gas checks was the way to go. Elmer Keith never even used gas checks with his favorite hot 44 magnum loads of 22 grains of 2400 and 245-250 grain Keith SWCs going with medium soft plain base. Plain base has always been good for me in 41, 44 and 45 caliber hot loads with Keith bullets. I love cast bullets in 38-357 cal for standard and +P loads. For hot loaded 357s, my own preference was to go with jacketed bullets for the most part. But your styrofoam wads would be good to try for sure with medium soft cast bullet hollow points in the 357 or 38. Of course, the 38 needs the expansion for terminal performance on game. With the bigger bores, hard cast SWCs just do well. Have a great Holiday Season...Steve
I've subscribed to yours because , ha ha.. You have a bullet like mine but, I still have some questions...
Got the Lee C457-500-F bullet mold for my marlin 45-70 and pictures of the bullet show a gas check of course , and it's not 500gr, it's 450gr go figure..ha ha..
Anyway, not black powder so, I was going to try these out but, need to size and lube but, wanted to ensure I'm going the right direction.
Are the gas checks 45 because, midwest has the same hornady box of 1000 with a range of 45 but, I see mine are .457 - didn't know if i got a unicorn bullet or, normal and they're all the same and get mashed on..
Any info helps me hit buy now ...lol
Great video ...👍🇺🇸😎👌
Any issues with degradation of powder or lube due to contact with the nitro in the powders?
After you size pc bullets , do you have to recoat them ?
Try Mayan gold by powder by the pound, I just got it and they coat as good a ford light blue! It’s black with like a gold sheen and looks awesome!
Nice Gunmonkey5! I just got some Gold and some Cadillac black to go with my Ford Dark blue . If your a real engine guru kind of guy, or Ford nut we know that Ford barely used the light blue. I think it was only for a year or 2. Ford always used Ford blue or later as it became known "Dark Ford Blue" for decades. In the 90s Ford quit painting the blocks , Now they are all aluminum nearly so no paint required. I just thought I would put that out for all the gun guys info.
I just sent a messages about about getting getting with my mom I so sorry for that that
I am curious about the "High Tech" bullet lube product.
As soon as my "rich uncle gets out of the poor house" I might just try some of that.
Can you pop on gas check with hand ? I saw person online doing it
If you looking to shoot these out of a big bore Air Rifle the unlubed slug should be fine yes?
There is no data for reloading cast powder coated bullets.. should we treat them the same as jacketed bullets?
Does powder coating increase the wear on antique barrels?
Biggest issue I have with powder coating is what type of fumes is the gun creating when you shoot them. We know firing lead bullets will put lead in the air in some form but that is the norm. Now take the chemicals used to make the powder coat (and different formulas from different makers) heat them up, and vaporize them. Copper plated would be my first choice , and for casting I am inclined to pan lube.
Please forward info on your powder source. And item # for that grey powder. Thanks Jess
If you powder coat your bullet do you need to put a gas check on them still?
How about all three in one load using powder coated, gas checked and lubricated bullets? Guess they could be cranked up to the max powder load ultimate performance?
FC where can I find a 6-8 position mould for .400 dia 200 grain TC with no lube grove? Any help is much appreciated!
What is 45-45-10 lube and is there a way to make it yourself?
Powder coating does look nice my only fear is there are chemicals in the powder coat that is known to be used in making cutting wheel and sand paper that eventually will damage the barrel because it will make the bore bigger for me I feel safer with the 45 45 10 I don't know I still need to sleep on it before I go to pc great demonstration on choices available thanks have a great day
Uncle Jim thanks for the info
ocean374 - Always great to hear from the ocean374 , yessireebob...we would not want to do any powder coating of bullets if barrel wear is the result...there are some abrasives reported in the black powder coats as Uncle Jim is mentioning. Powder coating has been around for a while now and if barrel damage was a danger, powder coating would be avoided like the plague. There was a time when boron hex nitride (BHN) coatings were being heralded. But nitride is in the same vein as our carbide dies - barrel wear was a problem with boron nitride... You don't hear about boron nitride bullet coatings ever since as a result - shooters ran away from the boron hex nitride like the Zombie Apocalypse. Powder coating is here to stay, and there are multiple ways to apply it - someday, there will be a powder coating cast bullet handbook. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC thanks for the info like always a powder coating cast bullet handbook would be great in all casters library have a great day
Thing about powder coating that concerns me is between the heat from firing the round, and friction going down the barrel, what chemicals are released into the air? Plastics are not a good thing and in an indoor range this could be even worse if the blowers are substandard. That could explain the lack of endorsement for that system as it is a potential health risk. (not that burnt powder and lead are great). At this point I am leaning toward pan lubing my heads as I already use a 50/50 parifin/Beeswax mix for making leather armor (do the Medieval re creation thing, so have pots of the stuff and a good supply of wax on hand already,
First off, cool down....powdercoating is much better because it coats the whole boolit. There is no gas cutting going on in charges that are subsonic. Pistol loads.
For rifle loads, cast and powder coat. Add a gas cap and size. Your load will be true. The process is a little longer but rhe results are tremendous!
Vs lead?
Very informative. I’m new to casting my own and have one question. Is lube applied before or after sizing? Thanks, I appreciate your knowledge.
If you are using a machine like the RCBS to lube your bullets, your in luck because the lube-a-matic not only lubes but it install a gas check and re-size the bullet all at the same time. If your going with a traditional lube system for cast bullets the RCBS is hard to beat.
This is a very informative video, thanks. I have a question that you may be able to answer. I'm using a bullet lube formula of 1 part petroleum jelly, 2 parts beeswax (or paraffin wax), and 1 capful of STP Oil Treatment. I know the wax is the base, the petroleum jelly is the softener, but what is the STP Oil Treatment for? I can't find an answer anywhere.Thanks FC
Roy Seifert - Neither one of us are chemists. But there are tons of recipes out there. However, STP is a petroleum base oil additive - increases the lubricity of engine oil. Why not add a capful of engine oil or any manner of oils or waxes (they've been tried)? One of the old time gun writers used his own mix of only the beeswax and petroleum jelly and he said it worked fine. I throw in some Lee Liquid Alox, and it works fine - in fact 50% beeswax and 50% alox is the NRA formula. The beeswax is the scaffold that keeps the concoction in the bullet (bees construct with it also of course), and the alox does the great work of lubricating the bullet. Doesn't take much alox so the STP is performing the same function as the alox - increasing the lubrication of the bullet. Warm up the alox and it flows just like STP. Look at Ed's Red - uses transmission fluid, kerosene, mineral spirits, acetone to clean guns. And the acetone can be left out. Acetone dissolves plastic, but what purpose does each of the others provide - other than the ingredients are common even in Russia? Of course, all are solvents. The answer is that I don't know exactly what STP does, but it's good for engines and works for our cast bullets should you decide to use it...this message will self destruct in 10 seconds...good luck, Mr. Phelps... Best to ya, FC Steve
Is there any problem shooting 2400 powder in the 460 using cast bullets
👍🏻
l have been lubeing Missouri coated bullets. I wanted a cleaner shooting bullet, less lead in the bore. At this time they seem to be much better, need more testing. As all ways very good info
Milton Wells - Certainly we no longer have to do any lube at all with powder coating - the PC is the lube. But that doesn't mean that we can't use other lubes in addition. I have yet to test bullets that are quadruple lubed (PC, GC, lube and tumble lubed). You would think that would be grand overkill, but a shooter could do that if they chose to do so for whatever reason they deem fit. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC I have had some problems with this revolver. Lubeing the coated bullets solved the problem. My other revolvers do good. As all ways very good info. from you.
powder coated as good as copper plated or better?
G'day from Australia FC! Have you any thoughts on copper plating bullets at home? The idea intrigues me. It doesn't look difficult and the results look good in the few YT videos that I have seen (the "barrel plating" technique appears to be best). A downside to it might be that production times might be slow for quantity production.
Eatherbreather I'm part way building this experiment.
Excellent! I'd like to see how that goes. I would be trying already myself but haven't sourced enough info yet.
what about paper patch?
Why automatically assume you have to size. The lee mold in 45 usually throws undersized bullet for a lot of bore diameters.
Great vid! Lube your chair LOL
Hi FortuneCookie45LC. I am a new shooter and re loader So please forgive me if this question is stupid. When you powder coat your cast bullets is the powder coat same as automotive powder coat powder? I am from Canada and have tried to find this out with companies that sell automotive powder with no luck. I have really enjoyed your and other channels in regards to reloading and shooting I have learned so much and always look forward to the videos.
Its polyester powder coat - most people start with Harbor Freight Red - it works good and a $9.00 container will last for years and coat thousands of bullets. It does not say "Automotive" on the label - its just powder coating powder - it works on about everything, automotive or otherwise. It is very tough coating, it is intact on shot bullets, and does not crack or split when you smash a bullet with a hammer. Good stuff, I've used it a few years now without any other lube on it, with no leading and no problems even with soft bullets pushed hard. I no longer worry about bullet hardness, I just look for good castability ie a few percent tin and whatever antimony the lead happens to have in it.
What would BHN 12 to 14 look like with the thumb nail test ? Great casting..
Nick J - You would get a beautiful definite dent with the thumbnail test. Best to ya, FC
You can also get a hardness tester but the video is pretty informative with the nail test. Ballpark is yoir nail will peel pure lead. After that the hardness will increase with the addition of antimony. Rule of thumb here, unless you can score a good supply of wheel weights order some Lyman #2 lead. It has a BHN of 15 which for just about any instance is good to go.
Is the powder for coating a lubricant or will it damage the bore over time?
Lube serves to reduce friction in the barrel between the lead bullet and the steel bore, as well as softening powder fouling. The powder coating is a soft layer of material that puts a barrier between the bore and the bullet to reduce friction and keep lead from touching the bore. Leading is prevented like jacketed bullets, since the jacket protects the lead core. Copper, cupronickel, zinc, and copper plated mild steel have all been used as jacket material on bullets. Since powder coat is soft compared to those metals, I don't think it would damage the bore any more than a standard copper FMJ bullet would.
I've heard 45 45 10 in a dozen videos but haven't heard what that it's yet?
Mix ratio of a type of lube
Has anyone tried powder coating with PTFE or just add some to the powder coating?
Excellent idea Don , The only hard part would be getting it to stick, Maybe we could just dust the bullets with ptfe powder or add some to them in the MTM bulletboxes we transport them in fora comparison.
What would be easiest and fastest (other than no lube) would be spraying with case lube like Hornady One Shot. Has anyone tried that?
when you powder coat what load data do you use, cast or jacket
bob crawford - Great question not often asked... There is some word being passed around that PC allows cast lead bullets to shoot like FMJs. Stop and think about this for a while and the PC coatings are similar to tough paint approximately .001 - .0015" thick. The strength of the PC coating depends on the lead underneath just as PC paint over steel is tough and durable because of the PC and the steel. And if a PC bullet is melted in molten lead, the coating will either float off limply and flat or be burned away (as observed on many occasions melting them). When jacketed bullets are melted, the jackets are there in perpetuity. When you view videos of jacketed bullets being made, the bullet jackets are drawn copper alloys that stand on their own with side wall thicknesses over the lead core in excess of .030 at the base and over .010" at the nose. The advent of jacketed bullets was because the plain lead bullets would not hold the rifling at smokeless powder velocities and strip off causing bad accuracy and barrel leading. While PC coatings may inhibit leading at high and totally prevent leading at lower velocities, the ability to hold the rifling is not improved by the PC. It is the reason you see no videos showing groups shot at high velocity at distance. We may have pushed the velocity envelopes marginally higher with PC (especially using very hard lead alloys), but the jacketed barrier is still there. When I want to shoot my .3 - .4" groups at 100 yards with full power 223 or 308, I'm reaching for my Sierras. When I want the expansion that technologically superior jacketed bullets provide, I'm reaching for my Noslers and Hornadys. When I want to stitch targets at 50 yards with my pistol caliber lever guns, the PC is most fine. Until more work to develop the idea coating yet undiscovered, we need to regard PC bullets as cast with a more efficient and better lube alternative provided by the PC. You should do your own testing to determine how far PC can take you with effectiveness - and report your findings to increase the body of data available. Best Regards, FC
My .02 aswell, cast data only unless a gas check is used.
How does the powder coat work with reclaiming the lead bullets to cast new ones?
I would imagine the pc would melt away into the ether. Probably want good ventilation or a mask though for sure.
Is it me or is that color blue outside and grey inside?
I am gas checking and then powder coating the same bullet and then sizing lee 174gr rifle bullet. Am I crazy, like wearing belt and suspenders?
bnighter i did the same on my 556 and 308 if u get gas checks from sages outdoors they are just a hair larger and it allows for easy gas ckecking after u powdercoat. and that save u lubing and sizing a addutional step. i gas check because it allows me to shoot at higher velocities without leading and with alot more accuracy. to the tune of 63g 556 @ 2800 fps and 210g 308 at 2300 both shoot a little under 1"@100yds. the 308 willshoot accurately to a 600yds ive got a video to prove it if u wanna look its a lil long but i show the whole thing start to finnish.both of these calibers a out of ar gas guns
Gas checking after coating sounds good. You are getting better results.
Either way i would imagine will work. Good idea bud
I CANT SEEM TO GET MY 223 CAST BULLEYS TO GRUOP AT ALL WOOD YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS TO HELP ME OUT.
Learn how to aim
6 year old video and the casting manual’s still haven’t decided to recognized powder coating as a method lol I wonder about them sometimes
FC45lc - What a great educational video; especially for the newbie like me. During the review, you mentioned tumble lubrication method. Using that method, you mentioned that Lee's bullet mold sized them to the correct size. So do all the acceptable methods require sizing? If so, does that mean you have to size when using the tumble lubrication method? Thanks again for all the training. :-)
L Krueger - Used to be that sizing was predicated on slugging our rifle and auto pistol barrels and measuring the cylinder throats of our revolvers. We would add .001" to the groove diamters of rifles and pistols and add .001" to the cylinder throat measurements. Then we would size our bullets to that, and our bullet molds always casted on the big side so we could size 'em down as needed. Richard Lee came along and wanted a better way since a lot of time was being spent sizing and lubing cast bullets in our sizerlubricator machines. What Lee did was design his Tumble Lube molds to drop close enough to the SAAMI spec guns of today and then his Tumble Lube (TL) design bullets with the multiple small grease grooves and lessened bullet bearing surface took care of the rest. His Lee Liquid Alox in the little bullet grooves supplied all the lubrication required to make this new system work. Most of the time Lee TL bullets do not need to be sized saving lots of time and effort, and doing the tumble lube takes about 12 minutes total time and effort to lube 1000 bullets (that's hard to beat). Now of course, there are fans of the old sizer lubricators and if anyone wishes to spend nights sizing and lubing their bullets, they are more than welcome to do what they wish. Such shooters often look askance at the tumble lubers and powder coaters. In the name of freedom of choice, this should not be. It certainly is all OK. All these systems work providing us with fine options. And powder coating has really stood all of this on its ear...I have videos up on all this stuff... Best to ya, FC
Thank you so much for the detailed reply. I'll keep trying t catch up on the videos I have missed. As always Thank You. :-)
@@FortuneCookie45LC I own two 30/30 Winchester rifles. (They are both MARLIN brand).
I have always used gas checks on my cast lead 150 AND 170 grn boolits.
What is the best method for cast Bullets, Powder Coating or Traditional Lube. My main criteria Is the safety of the shooters, (lead exposure verses powder coating exposure to the lungs) thank you Fortune Cookie
Wether they have lube grooves or not I tumble lube them with 45/10
Don’t the bases get dinged up?
If so forget about accuracy
I'm coating right now ..
Adam Stymus - And Good powder coatin' to ya...!! FC
FortuneCookie45Lc
learned it all from you sir. thanks much.
Probably
Like candy!.
Fortune Cookie I enjoy your video's would like to have a good talk on casting with you. sincerly Earl
Do you have a good lube recipe for black powder shooters? Looking for something I can make for my flintlock.
charles miller - Just talked with Moe and he just uses Crisco in his percussion Hawken. Others prefer SPG. Good shootin to ya..!! FC
1 part beeswax to 4 parts extra virgin olive oil, by volume, eg 1/4 cup melted beeswax mixed with 1 cup olive oil, heat it and mix it in a can that's in a pot of boiling water (or use any form of double boiler). If your area is really hot a stiffer mix is 1 to 3. It works great for my cap and ball revolvers and is a good lip balm too. It should work well for patched balls and also your flintock's mechanism. It should work well for Minie balls also.
PS Crisco makes a mess when it gets hot, beeswax mixes work better. Maybe Crisco would be fine for patch lube though, the pillow ticking should just soak up hot Crisco. I've heard butter flavored Crisco works better for some reason, but have no experience with it.
Not sure why you are doing a couple things. From what I’ve read, Powder coating bullets was developed to eliminate the Lubing step. Also, by applying the powder coat first THEN sizing the bullets by pressing them through a sizing die…you are removing some or all the coating you applied, which then exposes the lead directly to the bore. And Leading is the proper term for fouling as used with smokeless powder, as exposed/unlubed lead will detach from the projectile and layer onto the bore. If you are loading using black powder, there can be some powder fouling also, but again if bullets are not lubed you’ll also get some leading. Seems you’d be better off Sizing the cast bullets first, then applying the powder coat. Lube would then be unnecessary and you’d save time.
Could you use spray paint instead of powder coat?
It's just my opinion but spray paint is not nearly tough enough of a coating compared to powder coating.
How did or is the chicken coop going I would like to see that video or videos.
cant remember who had raw hollow points
Don't you get annoyed when people pronounce .458 as "Point four, five, eight" instead of "Four hundred, fifty-8 thou?"
Richard Greene No not at all. Point 458 is perfectly acceptable language. Four hundred and fifty eight for whole numbers. Relax man.
@@fredrutledge3628 I guess. I've hung around too many machinists in the past.
Bad color. Painting bullets will gum up a gun. The paint will ripp off when fired
It actually doesn't do that