Simple answer I think - the cores and stones will grow with the meta regardless - where current "it" cards with good functionality have the potential to be power crept out of the meta. Even with a yearly release, this is probably inevitable. Also, the rarity for the cores on the collector market have an impact too given that a lot of the print runs for alpha and beta are known (especially for foil). So, with all of that, there will be a few alpha/beta cards that will age like lightning bolt in MTG and will always be good, but I think cores are like moxs, you'll want them to cast your new power creep cards 10 years from now, when earthquake could be cycled out of the meta next set. Just my thoughts! Love seeing videos like this about Sorcery!
This is a case of a small competitive playerbase. I think as the game expands we will see price shifts, but cards like pillar, or earthquake, aren't in demand outside that small playerbase generally.
Maybe a little different take than some other commenters, but I think as it stands the Sorcery card market can never really fluctuate based on what’s in the “meta” because the main competitive scene is still online via TTS. Yes, there are a few in person events every year but that’s nothing compared to weekly Armories at every LGS like a game such as Flesh and Blood (and look at how player driven that market is). I guess that’s not necessarily a bad thing for Sorcery, just an interesting observation. I just think there will need to be LGS presence in order for any sort of player market to establish.
Sinkhole is seeing a lot of play in these deck lists because it serves a few different purposes. 1. Allows Geomancer / Seer Roots-based decks to activate Roots of Yggdrasil. 2. Removes other problematic sites (except Smokestacks) 3. Can hurt opponents that require more ramp. Say Turn 4 you play Sinkhole then a 4 cost spell. Pop the sinkhole. Destroy opponents site. Now you've set them back 1 mana and it may force them to draw into a site next turn. Earthquake is powerful in all these decks because most people were running earth sites. Burying minions, artifacts, and rearranging your sites provides a lot of versatility, one that which Roots-based decks and Anti-Roots-based decks need to perform. Philosopher Stone and Cores are very powerful when they're in your starting hand or you draw into them Turn 1 or 2. Early ramp allows you to play cards that you otherwise wouldn't be able to so early, allowing you to establish a dominating board presence. Getting a card out early like Pudge Butcher, Thunderstorm, or Grandmaster Wizard feels really good. A lot of decks are playing more close to the ground and not requiring as much ramp. I think that's why we're seeing less of them in the meta presently.
Allot of the sinkholes and the earthquakes and the cards you are talking about are there because of the earth Yggdrasil shell in the meta right now… that will evolve. There are 2 strong earth avatars and they are feeding eachother in the meta with a particular ability in geomancer… just wait for the next set and for things to wash out a bit. The meta has shifted really strongly in the past year with no new set at all just as people have been learning the game. Getting ahead a turn and going first is a strong play. Princess into a core or stone is a strong opening with a tower in air… period.
too your points about price of cards. It seems a lot of the "value" in the cards are still in the collectable side. I'm just guessing i think of the player vs collector base still favors the collector.
I think the entire issue looking at tournament results and correlating those with the expected price of the card is that this game is casual. There's not really a tournament scene where competitive driven results drive wild price swings. It's just not the same.
Further, if you really look at the prices comparative to their rarity, Earthquake is one of the most expensive Elites already. It's price is as you would expect. It's cheaper only than Grandmaster (which is in literally every deck it seems) and Observatory. I think that's basically it. Even the Mixes are cheaper if you want to discuss the collectability aspect as those are more of a collectible than anything at this point. Pillar is perhaps a tad bit under priced, but it's still in the top 5 or so 'Non-Core/Stone" Uniques. The prices seem in line with the usage of the cards.
Pillar is close to the "real" value of a unique. I would run pillar in every single deck, even with zero earth cards, except in a graveyard using deck. Pillar could climb up a bit but it's obvious the whole alchemy 9 phenomenon is driven by people who don't play sorcery pricing them based on their MTG analogues. Also, a lot of the top gencon competitors were running the same deck, so it's double counting a bit to say the top X were all running sinkhole. Earthquake and Pillar are more like universal staples than Sinkhole, which will see less play if there is a nerf to Roots or new cards in AL that dethrone Roots
I think you're absolutely right about the Alchemy 9 being somewhat overvalued due to a pervasive collector's mindset seeing these as future home deposits based on what has happened with old school MTG analogues. As a new player (AUG '24), I am finding it very difficult to access any of those cards for anything close to a reasonable price when starting from scratch.
I feel like 3 stones in top 8 is still significant. Saying 37% of the top 8 decks are running the same card is legit. Cores and stone will always be high because folks conflate them with moxes and lotus.
Collecting this game just feels different. Geared towards older Magic players (who perhaps have some cash to spend at this point). I think there are way more people who collect as compared to who play. That's why the prices are still wonky. It's not all about gameplay as far as value goes imho.
core cards are more expensive cause collectors drive the market right now not players. for the competitive play cards to increase there needs to be a higher ratio of player/collector.
Super nice AP. Congratulations on it…
Simple answer I think - the cores and stones will grow with the meta regardless - where current "it" cards with good functionality have the potential to be power crept out of the meta. Even with a yearly release, this is probably inevitable. Also, the rarity for the cores on the collector market have an impact too given that a lot of the print runs for alpha and beta are known (especially for foil). So, with all of that, there will be a few alpha/beta cards that will age like lightning bolt in MTG and will always be good, but I think cores are like moxs, you'll want them to cast your new power creep cards 10 years from now, when earthquake could be cycled out of the meta next set. Just my thoughts! Love seeing videos like this about Sorcery!
This is a case of a small competitive playerbase. I think as the game expands we will see price shifts, but cards like pillar, or earthquake, aren't in demand outside that small playerbase generally.
Interesting ☺️ I am sure Earthquake and Sinkhole will rise a bit post AL, especially because I foresee sites and site placement to become key in AL.
Maybe a little different take than some other commenters, but I think as it stands the Sorcery card market can never really fluctuate based on what’s in the “meta” because the main competitive scene is still online via TTS. Yes, there are a few in person events every year but that’s nothing compared to weekly Armories at every LGS like a game such as Flesh and Blood (and look at how player driven that market is).
I guess that’s not necessarily a bad thing for Sorcery, just an interesting observation. I just think there will need to be LGS presence in order for any sort of player market to establish.
Right on! Great thoughts, im also interested to see how the market responds post AL. Congrats on your craterize too!
Sinkhole is seeing a lot of play in these deck lists because it serves a few different purposes.
1. Allows Geomancer / Seer Roots-based decks to activate Roots of Yggdrasil.
2. Removes other problematic sites (except Smokestacks)
3. Can hurt opponents that require more ramp. Say Turn 4 you play Sinkhole then a 4 cost spell. Pop the sinkhole. Destroy opponents site. Now you've set them back 1 mana and it may force them to draw into a site next turn.
Earthquake is powerful in all these decks because most people were running earth sites. Burying minions, artifacts, and rearranging your sites provides a lot of versatility, one that which Roots-based decks and Anti-Roots-based decks need to perform.
Philosopher Stone and Cores are very powerful when they're in your starting hand or you draw into them Turn 1 or 2. Early ramp allows you to play cards that you otherwise wouldn't be able to so early, allowing you to establish a dominating board presence. Getting a card out early like Pudge Butcher, Thunderstorm, or Grandmaster Wizard feels really good. A lot of decks are playing more close to the ground and not requiring as much ramp. I think that's why we're seeing less of them in the meta presently.
Allot of the sinkholes and the earthquakes and the cards you are talking about are there because of the earth Yggdrasil shell in the meta right now… that will evolve. There are 2 strong earth avatars and they are feeding eachother in the meta with a particular ability in geomancer… just wait for the next set and for things to wash out a bit. The meta has shifted really strongly in the past year with no new set at all just as people have been learning the game. Getting ahead a turn and going first is a strong play. Princess into a core or stone is a strong opening with a tower in air… period.
too your points about price of cards. It seems a lot of the "value" in the cards are still in the collectable side. I'm just guessing i think of the player vs collector base still favors the collector.
also thanks for the shout out :)
I think the entire issue looking at tournament results and correlating those with the expected price of the card is that this game is casual. There's not really a tournament scene where competitive driven results drive wild price swings. It's just not the same.
Further, if you really look at the prices comparative to their rarity, Earthquake is one of the most expensive Elites already. It's price is as you would expect. It's cheaper only than Grandmaster (which is in literally every deck it seems) and Observatory. I think that's basically it. Even the Mixes are cheaper if you want to discuss the collectability aspect as those are more of a collectible than anything at this point. Pillar is perhaps a tad bit under priced, but it's still in the top 5 or so 'Non-Core/Stone" Uniques. The prices seem in line with the usage of the cards.
Pillar is close to the "real" value of a unique. I would run pillar in every single deck, even with zero earth cards, except in a graveyard using deck.
Pillar could climb up a bit but it's obvious the whole alchemy 9 phenomenon is driven by people who don't play sorcery pricing them based on their MTG analogues.
Also, a lot of the top gencon competitors were running the same deck, so it's double counting a bit to say the top X were all running sinkhole. Earthquake and Pillar are more like universal staples than Sinkhole, which will see less play if there is a nerf to Roots or new cards in AL that dethrone Roots
I think you're absolutely right about the Alchemy 9 being somewhat overvalued due to a pervasive collector's mindset seeing these as future home deposits based on what has happened with old school MTG analogues.
As a new player (AUG '24), I am finding it very difficult to access any of those cards for anything close to a reasonable price when starting from scratch.
Beautiful craterize
I feel like 3 stones in top 8 is still significant. Saying 37% of the top 8 decks are running the same card is legit. Cores and stone will always be high because folks conflate them with moxes and lotus.
I honestly felt that Cores and Stone were almost automatic inclusions in any competitive deck, so anything below 80% was shocking to me.
@@Lord_of_Itza running a Core in a mono element deck still sees debate.
I think it's because we already have those cards and there aren't alot of new players coming into the game yet.
Where are these prices at?
Collecting this game just feels different. Geared towards older Magic players (who perhaps have some cash to spend at this point). I think there are way more people who collect as compared to who play. That's why the prices are still wonky. It's not all about gameplay as far as value goes imho.
If those collectors ever feel like dusting off their cards, there is a wonderful game to experience
Wardrobe change!!
And look at all these people commenting on your video. lol.
core cards are more expensive cause collectors drive the market right now not players. for the competitive play cards to increase there needs to be a higher ratio of player/collector.