Super Monkey Ball only has 3 main games, Adventure, 3 handheld games, Banana Blitz, & Step N Roll though. I enjoyed all the games in that series which I played personally. I only haven't played 1 of the handheld games, Step N Roll, & Deluxe. Super Monkey Ball's only game since Step N Roll was the HD Port of Banana Blitz, it's like several other abandoned Sega Series only it had more games than just 1-4. Remember Ristar, Nights, Burning Rangers, & a few others?
I haven’t heard from GameFly in like 5 years. I can’t believe they randomly sponsored Arlo. Edit: Apparently my comment was sponsored by GameFly as well. Thank you?
I haven't watched the whole video but the Splatoon example, holy shit now I get how much bothering is for you damn, I'm sorry you deal with such big bummer
well the splatoon example was much more exgagerated than the reality of paper mario with the exception of sticker star, but he did make a great point in the first 2 differences lol
Its a really stupid comparison though, it has nothing to do with this case, there are areas where origami King is clearly better than TTY for instance, way more gameplay variety in Origami and way better pacing with no backtraking.
@@doesntexist9547 I've seen lewd stuff creep up in trending, and I agree that it's surprisingly chill from what I've seen - now I'm no lewd fan myself, the worst I usually see is people being disgusted that NSFW stuff was trending
You guys act like Twitter is some hellspawn; it's entirely dependent on who you follow. Also, literally any social media platform can be filled with toxicity
I don’t understand how he makes this puppet so expressive, like honestly, “If I don’t get some new games to play I... will... Die.” The eyes peer directly at you even tho they don’t move. I don’t get it, but I love it
@@HOTD108_ thats honestly very interesting, with all the game pass talk being tossed around and steam and psn monthly discounts? The next gen having disk-less versions? Granted stadia and ea's attempts were very poor, but gamefly hasn't been relevant in America for....i don't know how long, and with talks of us games possibly going up to 70 usd, which is roughly 100 aud, I dont think its going to be relevant in America for a while granted my rural internet, which is horrible by American urban standards, is considered the average of Australia, so that too also kinda plays a fact id imagine
And incidentally, that scenario would make Tabata responsible for both series fundamentally changing for the worse (since Tanabe was also in charge of Federation Force, as well as Chibi Robo Zip Lash apparently).
Fed Force was a spinoff. Sticker Star to OK are sequels in the Paper Mario franchise. Fed Force was NEVER going to change Metroid for the worse. It was just a one off thing to try and flesh out the joke that is the Galactic Federation and maybe touch on the corruption thing from Fusion that only Other M decided to touch afterwards (though that game's plot takes place before Fusion chronologically).
EspurrsEyes42, yeah, it's like Hey Pikmin more than anything. Both of those games weren't going to change the franchise for the worst. They're just mediocre spinoffs.
@@espurrseyes42 That's why "imagine" is a key word here. A second Federation Force and suddenly it wouldn't be a spin-off anymore. It'd be its own series. And if Prime 4 wasn't being developed, they'd be the only Prime games to come out since 3. Reality is thankfully kinder to Metroid fans.
I got the commercial for Pepsi! Am I doing something wrong? since late 2016 all I get is pepsi commercials over and over! I must be important to them, maybe my hair needs fire... Weird!
The comments of this comment section contains: 50% of people talking about opinions of Paper Mario 35% of people talking about how Twitter is a bad platform 15% of people talking about how they haven't heard of GameFly in forever
Dullard D. Bones And that he doesn’t look like an abomination, remember that. Though, even non-Sonic fans agree that he doesn’t look like an abomination (Pre-Movie release design).
Pretty much twitter with people saying TOK is automatically bad and people saying TTYD is bad when most of the people saying that most likely didn’t even try the game
@@luigissidekick861 IKR, I get irritated when someone says something about a game that is good/bad to them, when they didn’t even play it. They could’ve just said “it looks good/bad etc.” which makes sense but they can be honest.
I'm seeing a lot of people accuse me of making generalizations about "supporters," but I think a lot of you are forgetting that I'm not talking about REASONABLE supporters in this video. As with the "critics," I'm talking about the most extreme, fanatical examples. Obviously lots and lots of TOK fans have played the old games, and many of them are being super civil. But I personally rarely (if ever) see a fanatical, anti-TTYD supporter say they've played the old games. Heck, very often they haven't even played TOK, they just like to fight with people they think are being annoying. Point is, if you're having a civil discussion about any of this, you're not the kind of person I'm talking about in this video. Also, it's come to my attention that the audio in this video is a little quiet. Sorry about that, must have been some kind of editing mix-up we didn't notice. Honestly, based on past experience, there is a 98.3% chance it was my fault, LOL.
Arlo please stop using twitter. It’s such a horrible website that brings nothing but negative emotions. Please Arlo, you deserve to be happy so get out of twitter. It’ll work wonders for your own happiness.
You’d think assuming a neutral stance is the best stance to take in this situation, but nope. Instead of having both the critics and supporters at least understand with the points you make, you instead get flack from both parties. This “if you’re not with me, you’re against me” mentality really needs to die, but sadly it isn’t going to anytime soon.
Me too, I remember when they sent you discs like Netflix used to! Might consider it for next gen, since I have less time to play games now and it's a bit hard to justify spending 60-70 dollars on a game that I might not even get to play very much.
@@dianaburn2474 pretty sure netflix still sends discs, it's a different plan but they have a waaaay bigger library in that plan. My movie buff friend has that plan. It's good for people like my friend who are into the history of the film indusy. They have almost all the old classic Hollywood movies
They're crap now. I tried to order Mario Kart 8 Deluxe from them for Christmas a few years ago but they fucked up and gave it to me TWO WEEKS LATE! I just gave up and bought the game.
For me a line is crossed when "Objectivity" gets thrown into the mix and used as a weapon. In general, I've come to despise that term because people assume it automatically validates them. Just saying something is objective doesn't make it so, and to me when people claim their take is "objective" it actually invalidates their argument a little bit. I firmly believe that games are art, and like any art design philosophy is subjective and will never please everyone. Disagreements are inevitable. Some people just want to see the same formula refined to higher quality. Others want a radically different experience every time. Some people don't even like any of the games. Any fanbase is like this, and it usually stems from a singular title that is considered the "divergence point". Elder Scrolls has the argument of the series dumbing down since Morrowind. Smash Bros has the argument of the series being more casual since Melee. Final Fantasy now has a divergence since the games are usually action-oriented and no longer turn-based. I myself give every game a chance, even if I have a favorite. This is another problem I see: That unless the golden standard is surpassed, a new game is trash. Some people enjoy Origami King but will say they like TYD better. For the vocal minority, however, it's all or nothing. I mean, if I can't enjoy something that exceeds my best experience that I would never enjoy another 2d platformer because I still thing Yoshi's Island is the absolute best in that category. What I can respect from you Arlo is that while critical of the new game's direction, you will still give credit to aspects that are actually good and enjoyable. That's what we need more of; people that will be honest with not only others, but themselves. The "flawless or garbage" stance is too common in discourse, to the point that I also get grouped into an extreme category even when I often stand in the middle on something.
As far as I'm concerned, some opinions can be objective, but if someone claims their opinion is objective and can't prove it, they should not call their opinion such. It isn't.
@@delta3244 This, neither subjectivity nor objectivity can be used as a shield without proper evidence and argumentation. Hiding behind subjectivity when the other side has true evidence for their case, is just as bad as just throwing objectivity around.
@@delta3244 For me the problem then is how some people go about opinion vs. fact. Is something just your opinion or is it a an actual fact? What's the metric standard? Is it because the majority agree with you? Does that mean any minority in any community is simply wrong? Opinion and objective don't go together. If an opinion is objective, it's not an opinion- it's a fact. You can explain your opinions and lay down arguments and examples for your perspective, but they are still just one person's take on a piece of media. All opinions are subjective. Saying that TOK is a good or bad game is a subjective opinion, no matter the reasoning. Saying that TOK has seriously diverged from the origins of the series is an objective fact. No one can deny how much the direction of the Paper Mario series has shifted, it simply has. It's almost in a different genre now. Whether or not the series is still good, that all comes down to personal preference and what people want from their experience. My point is that people trying to claim "Objectivity" when it comes to games are often trying to really claim some sort of moral high ground to insist that you can't disagree with their take. It's an attempt to deflect any counter before it's even made. That's really the problem with this entire critic vs. supporter debacle: Both extremes insist they are objectively right, when in reality neither can be.
You can like The Origami King You can not like The Origami King You can still be a fan of the series regardless of the games you like. Just stop throwing insults at each other. Color Splash years were terrible, we don’t want a repeat of that.
Darling Vexa Art I wouldn’t really call that an unpopular opinion anymore. Most people have grown on it, especially given Forces’s mixed reception. Unleashed is in my top 5, for sure, and it desperately needs a PC port.
> Twitter is where I have most of my discussion There's your problem, Arlo. Twitter is just a cesspool of crap, it's short message nature is not conducive to long form, thought out discussion. At best, it's good for snippy hot takes that ruffle some feathers, but also get people thinking and talking. If you want to actually discuss things, do it literally anywhere else. *EDIT:* Some people are fairly pointing out that it's not something that is limited to twitter, so I'll elaborate a bit: Twitter is a breeding ground for toxic behavior because of the nature of the website. Yes these problems happen elsewhere, and arlo addresses most of the core concerns of that in the video. I'm just pointing out how using twitter, especially *exclusively,* is exasperating the problem.
@@ThatOneDudeWhoPostsStuff Arlo wants a echo chamber of people agreeing with him. When he called himself a whiny entitled fan boy, he's stelling the truth.
"The era of the internet" made it so every opinion is now a sports team, where you defend it no matter what at any cost because you tie your identity to it, if someone doesn't like what you like or disagrees wtih you they're personally attacking you and everything you believe in and you have to stand up for what you know is the real and only option! Happens in meaningless things like sports or fandoms and happens in more important things like politics, there's no room for middle ground or room for nuanced conversations. So pick your teams and have fun fighting everyone else who clearly choose the wrong one.
You need to watch CGP Grey’s “This video will make you angry.” It explains why this stuff happens and knowing why has helped me deal with these kinds of people.
I've never related to a a title less because 99% of my paper mario info and discussion comes from Arlo videos, also known as dopamine machines Now that I've watched it I wish this video was required viewing for absolutely everyone on the internet
People need to learn to allow people to dislike games, I even liked sticker star but I don't get frustrated whenever anyone says they don't like the game because there's an actual reason for and most people aren't hating just for the sake of hating
I actually REALLY liked Sticker Star! Its actually -- and I could get CRUCIFIED for saying this -- my favorite game of the series. Granted, I have only experienced the other Paper Mario games via let's-play but haven't been compelled enough, by watching gameplay, to actually PLAY them myself. (Also, personally, I don't prefer games that have a lot of dialogue; I'm more of a gameplay-focused, casual gamer.) Also, I kinda knew, before playing Sticker Star, the solutions to some of the more obtuse puzzles (which there definitely are a handful of). But the game, overall, just had a lot of charm to me; it fit me really well. Though I do recognize that it has flaws, I, unlike you, actually DO get a little frustrated whenever anyone lambasts the game, decrying it as nothing more than an "irredeemable game with absolutely NO good qualities about it". As someone who really appreciates the game for what it is, I just hear those sentiments far, far too much!
Yeah it's the same for me, I adore the original PS1 Spyro trilogy more than any other games in the world.. But I really didn't like a lot of the decisions and directions made with the Reignited Trilogy.. But ever since RT has come out I find it hard to be able to talk to others about Spyro without them getting violent just because I don't praise the remakes like they're God's gift. I have found a few places where I can talk about Spyro without causing backlash just because I don't love the remakes, but there's also a lot of places I almost can't go to anymore because of it. It's just unfortunate really.
@@cookiesontoast9981 I can support that. I never played the originals, but though I liked the game’s overall art direction, there’s plenty of nasty bugs, especially in Spyro 3. Those skateboards are made of toothpicks.
@Shinjuru Ryu Guru We do exist. Granted, I do see them as two very different games that I like in different ways, but that was also true of SPM when I first played.
WRONG!!!!1!!1 1000 YEAR DOR IS OBJEKTIVELY THE BEST IN TE SEREES!1! ITS BETTR THAN THE OTHES BCUZ ITS ACCTUALY GUD!!1! AND I THINK SO AN MY OPINION MATTERS MOST
Tyd is my favorite game of all time but I the other game look fine but sticker star is bad that I decided to skip the next two games which I might tried them but sticker stats is bad
Stuff like this has actually become the main reason I stopped using Twitter, the place is such a cesspool of arguing that it just stopped being fun for me.
I have never used Twitter really, & it seems Arlo has found the "No Respect for Neutrality" that extremists on both sides share. Personally I have better things to do than to explain why Thousand Year Door is the best Paper Mario & why Origami King was great to a bunch of crazy people on the internet. The country I'm in is on the verge of war over this huge election between the Nazipublicans & Bidenists. It's not the internet, it's the times we're living in.
After using Twitter for a few months, 4chan seems tame now by comparison. That site really lowered my faith in humanity... had to stop using the site so I didn't lose all of it.
@@ikeshrafter It's the fact that anonymity thrives on 4chan & they tend to keep to themselves while people on Twitter can choose to be anon or not and get rewarded and go borderline viral for being nasty and flippant. It's such an awful platform and I hate the herd mentality on there... but we're all on there so we do it to ourselves.
That Splatoon analogy.... really got to me. If it _wasn’t_ obvious, I’m a Splatoon fan, love it to bits. I think of myself as civil and an open discussioner, tried to have a discussion with a friend about Origami King, but he kept putting words in my mouth when I was just playing devil’s advocate. I understand both sides, even though I’m a critic. To see the series you love change for the worse and continue to stick to what’s not working while constantly criticized and insulted for liking how it originally was......... sounds like hell. To be shunned because you care about it and want it to be the best it can.... god it sounds horrible. I’m not a huge Paper Mario fan, but I am a Nintendo lover and I know and care about nearly all of their IP’s. A series I _was_ a huge fan of, one that brought so many amazing, unforgettable memories for me, was the Mario & Luigi series. It... it’s really important to me for so many reasons, so I can understand how others can have that same feeling towards the Paper Mario series. I want Paper Mario to truly embrace its past, make Mario Story 4. That’s what I want, and I think many others. I don’t want another Mario series to disappear... this is the biggest one left..... Love what you love, and be civil when discussing your opinions
Splatoon analogy was complete ass imo like he basically said, "imagine being a Splatoon fan and then Nintendo releases Splatoon 3 and all the fun is gone" this is a completely biased analogy since it's clear to anyone that the concepts and ideas he provided are clearly intended to be viewed as just a worse variation, not a different one, honestly the worst part of the video by far.
@@Cakiso "it's clear to anyone that the concepts and ideas he provided are clearly intended to be viewed as just a worse variation" That's how it FEELS for many new critics, a clearly worse variation. The point of the analogy isn't to represent both sides of the situation accurately, it's to help the new supporters understand how the new critics FEEL, and it has to be a more overt and exaggerated version of the real situation in order to accomplish that.
I’m glad you can see that. I played Super Paper Mario, having tons of nostalgia, and the same for M&L Dream Team. I loved Super Paper Mario because of its amazing story and somewhat gimmicky but still fun gameplay. It took what I loved about 2D Mario and added all sorts of cool stuff that put New Super Mario Bros. Wii to shame. I know that I while this may not be a reliable way to base my opinion, I think of myself as a critic when I try to think of a Super Paper Mario story with Mario and Luigi Gameplay. And I know TTYD is even better, due to things like partners and how every move is like a mini game.
One thing nobody mentions about the Paper Mario games: They have amazing translations. I'm Spanish, but I prefer to play most games in English nowadays. Except for Paper Mario. This doesn't have much to do with anything, I just thought I would mention it
Yeah I agree. Except Sticker Star, I feel every Paper Mario game localization translators are good. I'm not sure how they do it, but they are doing it right. That's one thing consistent throughout the series. The writing is good.
When you don't respect your own language... And use the most spoken language only because it's the most spoken and overrated language and ironically, I'm writing in that language now.
I have to say: well said. It's something I think everyone is guilty of, to some degree or another. This is something that I think has gotten progressively worse in recent years. Mostly, I imagine, because people are getting so comfortable with the anonymity of the internet. Not only are they able to hide behind a keyboard taking potshots at whoever they disagree with, but the person they are "fighting" is too distant to really register as... a person. That and probably boredom, or wanting to get a rise out of people. Or even hoping to "convert" someone to the "correct" way of thinking. I'll fully admit, sometimes it's hard to feel like my own opinion is valid when I hear/read so much vitriol or praise to the contrary. So I can even see that being a reason, almost using it as a way to convince yourself that you're right. That would even account for the outright refusal to acknowledge contrary opinions, being scared that your own opinion might change. I just try to always interact with people as if I'm talking to them face-to-face, and treat them how I'd like to be treated. I won't change anything major, but I'll do my best to mitigate the problem.
As someone who really use to enjoy discussing Nintendo games online, I completely agree and understand where you’re coming from, Arlo. I primarily stick to Reddit (so my experience may differ a bit) but I typically only have so much time to post and read on social media about games. Having to sift through the wall of negativity and aggressiveness looking for a genuine, civil discourse that comes with ANY discussion online these days has become frustrating to the point of prohibitive. Unfortunately, I only see the people who ARE a part of the problem either responding the same, negative way to this video OR taking only the points that support their side rather than taking stock and reflecting on how they’re making their communities less enjoyable to be a part of. I don’t really see this being an issue that can be fixed or solved without having to police ideas and opinions, which also seems wrong. Maybe we can all just try to get along?
Even allowing for the policing of ideas/opinions does not fix the problem of people fighting over said ideas/opinions. It just gives one side more power while taking away from the rest.
What a commentary on our current political environment! I don't think you meant for it to be, but when you think about it, if people get into flame wars over something as inconsequential as a video game what are they gonna be like on topics w more weight behind em.
agreed as splatoon 3 released last year and i thought to myself if they took away the things i loved about octo expansion and didn’t put it in splatoon 3 i would listen to that type of argument i would have been livid as would most people
Meanwhile SPM was the start of the downfall of the series for me and I hated it. I love the original Paper Mario. TTYD is mechanically superior but I felt it lost some of the charm of the original. Then it's been nothing worth my time ever since. Muh GenWun.
yea me too and it’s kinda out of order as of now asvif you want to try out a game and return it just buy it online and delete it afterwards if you don’t like it it’s literally replaced game fly at this point no offense
I feel like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place because I don't hate Origami King and quite enjoyed it as a stand-alone game (and so the critics revolt), but without a doubt I believe that Thousand Year Door was the heyday and epitome of Paper Mario and I'd give anything to go back to that winning formula or at least take steps in that direction again (and so origami king supporters revolt).
The game is overall good (Something I cannot say about the last 3 pokemon) but has HUGE FLAWS who doesn't allow it to be great. Writting is inconsistent specially at the end, Nintendo still has a serious censorship with the characters, regular battles are still too long while giving too little and most problems of the game is associated to that last aspect, specially when you consider how those drag down the pacing.
@@voltagetortoiz3137 I did enjoy the meta comedy included, thought they did a good job making the dialogue interesting and it didn't feel mind numbing or a waste of time to talk to every character (which I like doing)! :)
@@shranos2112 I loved them. Most of the issues people were complaining about were silly or non existent. That isn't to say there aren't flaw, there are, just not ones that are too big of deals like reusing Haus animations and such
@@shranos2112 Agreed. Are the games flawed? Absolutely. My biggest disappointment was them not fleshing out the later gyms (biggest example would probably be the 7th gym), and how certain points felt very rushed. But i still really enjoyed swsh. That's what I wish people would understand, a game can have flaws and can still be liked by plenty of people.
@Darling Vexa Art Yeah. Origami King is a step in the right direction. My favorite Paper Mario game is the first one for N64. I also like TTYD and Super Paper Mario.
"You're not a real fan if you like the new games." "You're not a real fan unless you can accept ALL the games." My experience with the Crash Bandicoot fanbase in a nutshell.
@k ? I think people avoid using this argument in the Star Wars community because too many people dislike the prequels for it to make sense. I think more people take the opposite view, that liking the prequels or sequels makes you less of a fan. Now that I think about it, being fan of art doesn't even make much sense. In the football world, you are a fan if you support a team and want to see them win, therefore a "real fan" is someone who always roots for their team even when their team is doing badly. However, art can't win or lose, it can only be enjoyed. Having the mentality that you must like all games or movies in a franchise, even when they're not as good as before, to be a real fan is just silly. You will respond to some positively and to others negatively, you really can't decide what you're going to like.
The one thing I’m tired hearing from critics (and you even said it in the video) “You like the new games? You must have not played the old ones, or you played the new ones first.” I see it so much, anytime I want to talk about them, I always preface how I started with The Thousand Year Door, it’s one of my favorites, and how I enjoy every game in the series. Being a fan of all of the games can be hard, because people want to keep throwing you into on group or another.
I think the reason he brings that up is because of the responses he says he gets from supporters. If a critic says "I don't like the mechanic in [new game] and think the mechanic in [old game] was better" and a supporter responds with "Well you're just blinded by nostalgia", that doesn't illustrate that the supporter understands what the critic is talking about and it offers nothing in terms of an argument. Unless you can travel backward through time, there isn't anything you can't say someone is nostalgia-blind about. What I mean is, something has to exist for there to be a sequel of it. So, anything that recieves a sequel lends itself to the "argument" that fans of the original are blinded by nostalgia. That is not to say nostalgia isn't or can't be a factor in someone's attitude towards a game, but without being able to know that definitively, it's a moot point. Instead, if a supporter were to say "The mechanic in [new game] works well due to [change in game], whereas the old mechanic would not work well here due to [reason]", then I don't think Arlo would be making this video. As he says, it seems to him like the people saying he's "nostalgia blind" or "hates change" don't understand his criticism or don't recognize why he likes the old games, which could be (though not necessarily) because they haven't played the old game. Sorry this is as long as it is, I just wanted it to come off more so as the way I understood what Arlo was saying, I'm not trying to argue with what you're saying.
MasterChief0522 I know his reasoning behind it, and I never said he was wrong on certain cases. I’m just saying it’s, personally, one of the things I’m so tired of hearing. I used to just say how I like Sticker Star, or how Color Splash is one of my favorites, and that’s it. Then, a lot people would say “Must be your first one” or “Haven’t played the others.” After so many times, it gets tiring/annoying, causing me to always preface the opposite when bringing it up to deter those comments and replies. Totally agree the whole “nostalgia blind” thing is overblown, but doesn’t stop people from making assumptions, and you know what they say about that...
I get it. I'm a huge fan of the Metroid series and I enjoyed playing Other M when it came out. However I also fully understand everyone's critiques of the game and that many people consider it terrible. I'm sure if I ever went online and told people that I enjoyed playing it I would be inundated with replies telling me that I should play the better games even though I already have played them. I also think Arlo has a point when he says that many people who comment on things also tend not to be really acquainted with what they're talking about. You see it a lot these days and unfortunately it ruins it for those of us who can play games and enjoy the not so great as well as the great ones.
It's honestly not just the Paper Mario fanbase...it's a major social problem in general. Identity politics is becoming the new norm and "us vs them" is too common a mindset in every facet of life, whether it's who you think should be president or what video game you like. It's honestly so sad that this social unrest even permeates into something as casual as a video game fanbase, lol. I try to be better by being an example. Be the kind of person who can have civil discourse and hope that others learn from you. It's really the only power we have, except maybe voting.
I have the same issue, whenever I want to have a conversation about a topic like BLM with someone they refuse to acknowledge an opinion that combats their own and instead choose to attack me. I've had people attack me saying that I can't have an opinion about a particular issue due to the colour of my skin or my ethnicity. In some conversations I've been called a racist because I wanted to voice my opinion and have a standard conversation even though nothing that I have said is racist in the slightest. I find that a lot of people are being mislead to believe something that has no evidence to support it and then when they proved wrong they just kick and scream and throw insults out like a toddler. It's truly wild and unfathomable how people can act like this.
The very medium we’re using right now is the problem, and will inevitably result in the downfall of civil society. It’s ironic that the platform allowing people to have access to nearly all knowledge in the world, has ended up causing everyone to fall into their own “bubbles” of like minded people. It’s starting to bleed out into the real world from the online one with deadly consequences...and it’s due to the always connected thing in your pocket. Or at your desk. Or smart tv. Or watch. Or any number of always-online internet browsing capable devices.
The problem is Paper Mario is very much Us vs Them. Us who want the old ways vs Them who want the new. Them who want the old ways vs Us who want the new. Each is directly at the expense of the other. If you can only have cake or ice cream what do you do?
This problem definitely predates the internet by a _long shot._ All the internet has done is allowed these conflicts to spread around the entire world at the speed of light (as opposed to at the speed of horse), and for anyone to be able to spread them rather than just those influential enough to actually get the chance to send a message.
I have to disagree. It's not fair to assume something like that. It sends this message that "everyone that played the old games has to automatically dislike the new ones" and that simply isn't true. Some people don't like RPGs. That's reality.
Swish Fish. I agree with you, because I have actually played all 6 games, and The Origami King is my favourite. In fact, The Thousand-Year Door is my 5th favourite out of the 6. And Colour Splash is my 3rd favourite. Who can guess my least favourite, my 4th favourite and my 2nd favourite? Also, I love all the Paper Mario’s.
Arlo, I absolutely agree with you. I have had the same thoughts of how fans act on both sides, it's honestly ridiculous. I've literally had people tell me I was an entitled Pokemon fan for saying that Gamefreak should take the time to make a proper complete game, to hire more staff, work with other studios if needed, pay the employees well, and provide a game with plenty of great story with beautiful animations and a fun challenge.
entitled, no. But there is an argument to be made for tempering expectations. Pokemon is notorious for toxicity and hacking once you get online (even in official tournaments), so "challenge" doesnt exist to them, and on the other side of the spectrum, you have the 10 year-olds who the pokemon company is afraid of challenging, especially with the 1 save file limitation. This likely isnt the best place for the debate, but i know many fans are in agreement with you, even if only the vocal minority responds.
@@cullenlatham2366 Here's the thing, pokemon games have been consistently cutting down content and features for no good reason since gen 5, keen fans have been bitching about this since XY, most did let slide its shortcomings back then because it was the very first 3D game, it didn't get better. The only thing that has been improving ever since are the waifu designs and an INCREDIBLY SLOW drop feed of quality of life improvements (aka, most should have been implemented generations ago, but GF purposefully does time one at a time to create an artificial sense of improvement each gen) It not an unrealistic expectaction to expect that the Pokemon games AT LEAST have the same production value as their competitors, SPECIALLY considering they are the most successful JRPG franchise of the world BY FAR. Other studios have to make do with smaller budgets. If you think it's unrealistic to expect higher quality and production value from a company of the size of GF, let me point to Genius Sonority, at their peak, they only had about 17 employees, and they made the 2 colloseum games and PBR. Xenoblade Cronicles 2 was developed almost entirely by less than 1/3 of its usual workforce because nintendo had them support BTOW's development. (easy math, 254 /3= 84), and they STILL can make better JRPG's than GF. And even then, if the issue is REALLY their size and strict deadlines, they just need to do as OP suggested, hire more people or contract outside studios to compensate any insufficiency. We just want a pokemon that's up to the same standard as the rest of the industry.
@@tumamaencosplay you misunderstand me. I may have used a neutral tone in my first reply, but it was exclusively out of respect for civility. I almost completely agree that GF could do so much better, but this video is not the right place to complain if we want to be heard, as the main topic has very little chance of reaching the people who could make a change (not that the hackers who have locked down certain regions would let the change happen anyway)...
I also agree with Arlo, but in a different way. I'm constantly in fear of being attacked because I like Pokémon SwSh, and although I'm sad that they removed the Nat. Dex and that the post-game outside of the DLC is pretty short, that still doesn't ruin the entire game. (And to be honest, less Bruxish is good for all of us.)
I try not not to talk about Pokemon anymore. I loved Pokemon Sword despite it's flaws, and I'm afraid people are going to assume that I'm excusing the game's shortcomings, but I'm not. I was disappointed by the areas where the game fell short. I simply enjoyed the game enough for them to not be a deal breaker. But I've seen people acting like the only reason Pokemon Sword and Shield are successful is purely because of "blind fanboys who buy anything Pokemon" and I don't want to be accused of being a blind fanboy just because I enjoyed a game.
DING DING DING!!! Sound like any other real world events that have been going on lately under the guise of equality? Divide and conquer my friends and they are doing a great job!!!
This Paper Mario situation is honestly so difficult I don't envy Nintendo in the least. Heck even I find myself torn! on the one hand I'm one of the fans that did love The Origami King but at the same time I DO miss the old style and get where fans like you are coming from! Imo the best way to resolve this is for Nintendo to just do with Paper Mario, the same thing they do with Zelda. With Zelda we get one, maybe two, mainline entries every console generation and during the wait between entries we have spin offs and remakes. They should adopt that same method with the Paper Mario games! Basically every few years they should make a big meaty rpg in the style of TTYD and in between those entries you would have spin offs in the style of Origami King and Super Paper Mario. Now you're probably thinking "would people really buy that many Paper Mario games??" and honestly yeah I think so. I think Paper Mario is way more popular than people realize. I mean for pete sake Arlo's channel really took off thanks to a Paper Mario video!! Not to mention the attach rate with Switch owners!! Not only that but I think this method would warm fans to the more experimental spin offs while they wait for the next RPG entry which would result in more sales and better reception for the spin offs. Not only that but having the RPG style come back would probably make for some really good PR and get old school fans really excited which would again lead to better sales. OH! maybe this would even let them get more experimental with the spin offs?? (ie something like the fabled Paper Luigi game or a Yoshi Crafted World crossover or maybe even a Paper WARIO game??? :O) (sorry for the essay btw!! just really passionate about Paper Mario and just Nintendo in general lol)
I like the idea but is also important to realise that nintendo does not have infinite resources and time. If they only make 1 to 2 paper mario games a console it is extremely unlikely that they would be able to just double the number of games without repercussions. Not to mention that nintendo always wants to do something new, I doubt that they would make another game in the style of the older paper mario rpgs. Also when it comes to people buying paper mario, that number is no where near other 1st party games they had on each of their respective consoles. I personally think that the reason why the sales of origami king was so high was because a lot of people were wanting to try their first paper mario game either ever or in a long time.
I honestly can't feel bad for Nintendo. They chose to go down this path, and are aware of the criticism. They decided to kill off what people loved about the first two Games, and they have to take the good and the bad that comes with it.
Loving these videos coming up again since PMTYD remake was announced. Super excited to finally have an opportunity to try this game that has been held up high. I have no idea what the story is about but still super excited. As for the argument: "¿Porque no los dos?"
This is the reason I can’t talk about Pokemon anymore. I’ve been playing since the GBC and the points you made about defenders just writing people off hit real close. Pokemon has been such a big part of my life but anytime I mention literally anything that has been removed I get angry people telling me to leave the fandom, which pushed me away further. It’s sad that you can’t express fault in something you’ve loved so long
Why can't you talk about Pokemon anymore? Why are people telling you to leave? Pokemon's not a perfect series & we can be fans while being aware of faults. Gen 8 games were lackluster, although the DLC seems to be making them better games. Let's Go games were also disappointing the same way, & let's not forget everyone is really just impatient for Sinnoh Remakes that we hope greatly surpass the quality of Platinum Version. Besides Pokemon is a lot more than just games, with the anime & manga series existing as well. Maybe we could talk in a civilized way about the series if you want?
There are always people willing to talk about topics civilly, in fact in terms of Pokemon, I think you'd find most people are. It just so happens that unfortunately, the loudest ones are often the most extreme in their opinions. I personally found SwSh to be lacklustre in quite a few ways, but there were aspects I enjoyed as well, and things I wouldn't mind them bringing back and expanding upon in later entries (wild area, raids, dynamic music in gym battles, etc.). I had a dilemma similar to you, and in the end I just learned to accept different people have different views, and enjoyed the series in the way I liked. It's not as if people can exorcise you from the fanbase or something just because they disagree with you, so just look for people who share a willingness to be civil. Trust me, Pokemon is a huge fanbase, they are out there.
As a fan who arrive in gen 4. I think the game a bit of a disappoitment, But the dlc and the reveal of a new pokemon snap game really show that there is a light in the tunnel. I really hope that you're not going to leave a series you love because of some people the newer game, and you cannot say something about how bad the game is. I really think you can able to go to one of the side project pokemon have weather it is the manga, trading card game, anime, or side game. you can able to exprience pokemon with different media for what you want from the series. Signed somebody that loss his username
WaterKirby1994 this was my post “Been with this series I was 5. Still have my crystal game cart. I spent over 200 hours on emerald alone and did even more on the ruby and sapphire. I was there for xd and even though it was a new studio still saw it as great. Almost every single one since I’ve owned, but I don’t think I’m with this anymore. It may be geared to children but with all the other things that are out there I can’t even say I blame them for not being interested. The game has more or less lost what made it fun. Pokemon can’t handle the jump to 3D and that’s evident. They have been rushing and continually disappointing to announce they’ve been hard at work on a phone game. With all the resources, they do a phone game. I get it, the money is there but I can’t justify purchasing main Pokemon games anymore. I’ll play the next dlc because it’s already paid for but a DLc that can be done in about an hourish isn’t worth the money, this was to add Pokemon back in at a premium. It’s sad to see how gamefreak has screwed up so bad, especially with New Snap looking absolutely gorgeous.” People found me “attacking” game freak and just a hater of pokemon. But honestly I just miss when it had some some challenge. The sky Pilar was so frustrating as a kid and on a replay it still holds up but I haven’t had a challenging puzzle like that from Pokémon since idek anymore
Omg, don't even get me started. Criticism's taboo these days to which you can't express any remote negativity or neutrality on one end & you're not allowed to like newer games on the other spectrum in which you're a shill. You could hardly preach about it either because then someone would label you as playing the victim or just being a drama queen and that your stance or supposed problems don't exist, which is flat out disrespectfully ignorant. You could make this basis for about *any* fandom of anything, but in the span of 2-3 games, being a Paper Mario fan's genuinely exhausting & obnoxious no matter what kind of stance you take.
I don’t think you’re in any justifiable position to talk about this. Your twitter is filled to the brim with toxicity, throwing shade at other people, and you even go as far as to insult Americans despite them making up a huge portion of your audience. Please stop acting like you’re any better.
Here's a question. Since this is the internet and we barely know at times who the person we're talking to looks like or what their age is, can we chalk up some of the immaturity towards some of these people who are having these "arguments" as them either being naive, young, or maybe even not very bright?
"Not great" is an understatement. Of course you have actual sensible people here that are willing to be civil, but they feel outnumbered by the vast amount of douchebags looking to stomp on any differing person they come across
Here's a tip: calling people out about their flawed arguments. They'll slowly change their argument style so they dont look stupid, I may just be dumb and inexperienced, but in past arguments it's always worked so
@@cosamallender3276 You're damn lucky if that strategy has worked. Usually it leads to the other person ignoring your comment entirely, since the average internet user is deep enough in their own ego to rather plug their ears and walk away than admit their own mistakes
Still on tv too. Haven't try it yet I'm thinking about it since the Switch prices were pretty high. You can eventually keep them too in a lower price I think.
I’ve seen some of the fights going on in the comments and want to say this: part of the problem is that when companies make something that is part of a series, the intent is to cash in on the fact that there are fans of the others. For example: if “The Last Jedi” had not been apart of a previous series or continuity, or had been framed as a possible future and not the definitive events that followed, there would have been way less backlash. I think that if TLJ had not been sold or marketed as the continuation of Star Wars and as it’s own thing it would have been a better movie without the backlash. I think the same could have been said of any series that takes a drastic turn. From Paper Mario to The Legend of Zelda. It also doesn’t help that Nintendo seemed so good at listening to the fans back in the mid 2000’s. When fans complained that TLZ: Wind Waker was childish and not what they wanted, they made Twilight Princess. One game was complained about a little bit and Nintendo made a game for the fans that was more like what they wanted. I’m just saying that the fan’s shouldn’t be blamed for not liking something when they don’t like it, but should be held accountable for scaring people away from a franchise or series they love because they don’t like a part of it.
@@ForrestFox626 I've played the og games on an emulator at 1080p, and the art style alone looks good for today at 1080p, they could simply port it at HD and would be amazing
I feel you've done a good job at staying impartial so far and while I certainly feel thousand year door is the best game in the series, I did enjoy origami king. I feel from what you've said in you videos that you feel similarly. There shouldn't be anything wrong with preferring an older game even if others prefer the newer ones.
Oh man. As a long time sonic fan that kind of lost interest at heros and got back in at generations... This is a very accurate comparison. I don't hate any of the new (not broken) sonic games but adventure 1 and 2 just seemed so much more... Immersive, cohesive and feature rich for a sonic game and I mostly just wanna see the series get back to the rediculous hype days of the dreamcast
@@danswope Indeed, and I have the feeling that those games were like that because Sega threw all of their remaining resources and talent to them, particularly using the first Adventure to demonstrate all of the Dreamcast's various features. Also at that point in time, Sonic games being Sega hardware exclusives for the most part and original Sonic the Hedgehog fans growing up, it was the exact time to make ambitious games that targeted a slightly older demographic.
@@ChaosAngelZero I gota say I agree entirely. Just an aside, I think longing for the adventure days is what made me feel so catfished by forces and I kinda feel like Sega knew what they were doing there.
Ced von Noish lots of people that disagree with your point try to make it clear. That’s why I was assuming the whole internet was like that in my joke. Most, if not all of people trying to get attention will be critical of what your saying.
I never liked saying something like that. What gives a person the right to gatekeep other people from stating what they think of a topic if they say it respectfully. Just because we don't support everything a company does doesn't make us "fake fans".
@@clamthechef2389 I believe this "you're not a TRUE __" is called the No True Scotsman Fallacy because at this point, is anyone a true anything? You would have to define what a true __ is and why the definition you give is the best definition, which very few do, and it's usually just met with "I disagree with what a true __ is" anyway, so yeah, the whole "argument" is just a waste of time spent being salty
@@clamthechef2389 "What gives a person the right to gatekeep other people" Time committed to and their want to keep a franchise alive and healthy. If a franchise is based on stuff X, and new people want stuff Y, and want franchise to drop stuff X to cater to stuff Y -- then... they aren't a true fan of the franchise. Too much gatekeeping is toxic, but so is 0 gatekeeping. that "what makes a fan" is probably the one part i disagree with Arlo on.
@@dragar0th that does make sense. There does need to be order and stability in order to keep the franchise good, while weeding out any of the small bad eggs.
Which is why I refer to myself as a Long-Time or Casual Fan than being labeled as a "True/Real" Fan of anything. Apparently I'm supposed to believe someone calling themselves a Real/True Fan is opposed to Aggressively Disliking and/or Liking a certain Media from a beloved Franchise where you have to Agree with that said person which I find to be ASININE if you ask me.
I belly-laughed at the end when Arlo said "nothing will compare to the storm when the review drops...". The silent gaze off to the side was just too funny. I really hope people can calm down and listen objectively to your opinion for both sides of the argument. And also I'm really looking forward to the upcoming Origami Review. Just finished my own review and I'm excited to compare my opinion with whatever your opinion may be!
Just played thousand year door after your recommendation a while back. Absolutely loved it. Thank you, now I want to play the original and super paper mario
on the rare chance you already dont know, be aware that super plays VERY differently from the first 2. It still has plenty of good things in it, most notably the story, but if you go in expecting another RPG you might come out feeling burned. In reality, it is an RPG story in a puzzle platformer game.
WaterStone yea because literally no one says why they think ttyd is better I played it and it was horrible. It feels like everyone’s in on a joke pretending that ttyd is a good game lol
@@iecd461 So you're saying TTYD is a bad game? I don't see how. It's probably the most aged well Gamecube game to be honest. It's a game with tons of content pack into it. Each chapter feels like their own mini story lol Like a fighting tournament, riding a train, and traveling a pirate island. I think TTYD is better than TOK mainly because TOK bored me with too many generic toads. Not gonna lie, I felt like I was about to throw up after seeing too many of them that I needed to take a break from playing it. Same with Color Splash spamming Toads and ShyGuys everywhere. The battle system in TOK isn't that fun. It just sorta exist. I wouldn't consider doing the rotating puzzle "fun". Just "something that gets in the way after awhile". Not to mention I rarely like doing the optional fights. Only the non optional fights were fun and the boss fights. I didn't like the battle system that much otherwise. Lack of attack variety also didn't help. You only have two "strategies" Jump and Hammer lol. TTYD has flaws like backtracking and rng in battle system but it makes up for it with funny writing, individual chapters with their own mini plot. I mean, unless you could point me to another game where you do a large fighting tournament in the middle of the game while also having your identity being stolen from a psychotic ghost in the same game. If there is one, let me know! Overall, TTYD has more "wow factor" for me compare to TOK. Where as TOK, I feel mostly plays it safe compare to TTYD at least. It has its moments like Bobby and etc. It's my favorite in the sticker star series, but I prefer TTYD.
To tell the truth if they just changed the name of Paper Mario when Tanabe took over it wouldn't been an issue, because like Teen Titans, I don't think it's reasonable to compare the originals to Go!, seeing they have both different story styles and audiences. The fact that Tanabe said the series ORIGINALLY is all about the paper, means he fundamentally misses the point why the original game was made. And if you remove a fundemental the blocks on top will already be flawed to those who have the same fundamental belief as the original games. Think about it: if they kept the WarioLand name for the WarioWare games, which has a different gameplay and more focused on select characters than an explorative world typically with only Wario, I wonder what the conversation would be.
its a wonder why people havent broken to his house and throw stuff at him yet for all the horrible things he's done. one day we'll look back at this man and say ; "f**k him".
In my company, we once received a big name gaming company as a client for a Marketing & Positioning strategy. Initially, I was excited to work at something in an industry I really like. We found the audience to be the most divisive and critical group of people we've ever dealt with, and we've worked in the music and fashion industry. We no longer work with any client in that industry, people are just so passionate about gaming that every unaimed messaging feels like a personal attack.
I played the new paper mario sorta liked it and never played any other, but Splatoon is my favourite Nintendo game and that example actually made me sick to my stomach
FYI you can be supportive AND criticize what youre supporting. its not a dichotomy. i wish you wouldnt perpetuate this idea that you cant like something if you criticize it and just cause you enjoy something doesnt mean it couldntve been better. also most people dont know how to argue. 'fans' arent so much 'toxic' as they are ignorant
Yeah, just look at Arlo himself. He's all about Nintendo from the moment he started out here, and even he's critical of the company at times (*cough* Switch Online *cough*)
I really didn't like Forces, but I think its still bullshit to attack someone for liking it since **gasp** different people with different personalities have different tastes.
This is really a Twitter problem, not just Paper Mario. Nearly any media that gets a controversial reboot or sequel has the same problem. (Star wars sequels, Legend of Korra etc.) The site is filled with social warriors, determined to force everyone into their beliefs by belittling their opponents. It makes Twitter a horrible place for discourse, especially political discourse. If you want to discuss Paper Mario, go somewhere else. No site is perfect, but message boards and subreddits are better places to have discussions on this stuff.
Every Mario fans is like this. they force people to like every Mario game, including the terrible new Paper Mario games like Sticker Star and Origami King.
"You're blinded by nostalgia" is such a cop out argument, how about you criticise what I've actually put forward rather than disregarding my opinion entirely
Depends on how you use it. I think its a good argument once, like you can't enjoy something new if you keep comparing it to its previous entries. But yeah, you can't just keep saying that its a scapegoat.
I hate the nostalgia argument. Trying to completely disregard an argument with “oh, you only played it when you were a kid, you need to take off the nostalgia goggles.”. I revisted TTYD recently, and it’s as good as it was 4 years ago. I first played Sonic Adventure, a game notorious for being associated with being nostalgia blind, one year ago, and I will defend that game to the grave. No nostalgia goggles on. I also hate the whataboutism of newer fans. Pointing fingers at the other side to boost their own. “Well, the original formula wasn’t perfect. TTYD had a bunch of backtracking, so it’s good that it changed.” The backtracking doesn’t make it a bad game, but it could’ve still been improved on without abandoning the formula. Just look at Bug Fables.
I'm glad Bug Fables exist just so I could prove to these toxic TOK defenders that you COULD still expand on the old formula while also trying something new. I hate the "They did all they could do with TTYD" "So you want them to keep doing the same thing over and over again?" arguments. It's kinda infuriating to be honest.
" you only like ttyd because you played it once in 2004 and never let it go." it's like they think people only play a game once and never touch it again.
the same thing is happening on animal crossing twitter. someone tweets "I love playing ac everyday" and suddenly theres a billion tweets saying "wow imagine playing an empty boring game everyday couldn't be me."
Tendo64 yeah it’s crazy there. I see both sides. it’s annoying when either side get annoyed with the other for stating their opinion lol. my username is gyroidd if you wanna be friends lol
Have we come to a point where if people don't like something 100% then they are "toxic"? The internet and Twitter have ruined us by sensitizing us to a point where some people need virtual echo chambers and safe spaces in order to block out the dissenting opinions of other people.
That splatoon analogy made a whole lot of sense. Tbh, I felt the exact same way during the whole Pokemon debates. While I did enjoy Pokemon Shield for what it was trying to do, there were also a lot of things wrong with it that I also agree should be taken care of.
Same, man. Apparently if we try to still be open about having fun with a game that's heavily criticized while also being open to criticizing it, we just get get incinerated by both sides of the conflict. I found a lot of things to like in Pokémon Sword and Shield, although I'm the first one to say that more development time should have been taken to make the game's content less underwhelming. I also actually tried playing Sticker Star too, but I just grew so tired of it that I dropped it during the final boss and never felt like playing it again. Color Splash and Origami King would probably carry my attention all the way through with charm and humor alone, but Sticker Star soured my experience so much I just don't feel like spending money on the series anymore. Yet I'm sure some hardcore critics would still call me a shill for entertaining the idea of trying out the game in the first place and for not calling out the sequels despite the fact that I don't feel like getting angry over games I haven't played.
I'll keep listening to your Paper Mario chats regardless and I'll respect yours and any other person's opinions. Love the original trilogy, love the modern trilogy, hate the originals, hate the moderns, that's okay. I just like listening to Paper Mario stuff.
I believe Arlo is a genuinely very good person who clearly feels a mental impact from online criticism. I get it. I feel for anyone in that space - I could not mentally do it, given my severe depression. But Arlo created this. He has half a million subscribers and for years has gained a reputation for being the Paper Mario guy. For better or worse. I’m glad the early ones mean so much to him and his passion is part of the charm. But he furthers this dialogue on this series more than anyone else. I feel bad again that he feels weight of comments online. But it’s like throwing stones at a brick house. He leads the dialogue in the community and is someone people look to. And he always harps on this stuff. And he says because he’s civil that he’s a victim and blameless of furthering toxicity. Whether he knows it or not, he’s complicit to at least some degree. It doesn’t solely ride on him and there’s tons of people who take stuff like this and run to the most extreme of extremes. He’s not doing that and that’s not his intention. But by positing, months after the game has come out and met with general positive reviews...he’s only reigniting dialogue we don’t need to have for 3-4 years when the next game comes out. Paper Mario is what it is. People can reminisce but there’s a decade of releases now defining the series. There’s a lot of nostalgia with TTYD. So I get it. But this needs to stop. I don’t feel bad when he keeps fanning the flames and hides behind the guise of being civil and well-spoken. Nobody deserves mental impacts of online negativity, all I’m saying is he misused the platform he has. If the point of this is to just comment on the community, he should at least own up to being a major facilitator in the discussion. But posts like this wear everyone just wants to give hugs and feel bad for him also forget part of his reputation is of his own doing. This is constant. And he’s a very good do to which I respect. But, this video contributes to the toxicity more than it doesn’t.
@@jacketofdiamonds he should maybe not bash the new games for just existing as action adventure games? Constantly talking about it and taking it way too seriously? Just a thought
@@Mqstodon He didn't bash them "for just existing." That is literally what this video is about. He has some genuine problems with design choices they made. I'd refer back to the Splatoon metaphor he made in the video, but from your comment I'm unsure you actually watched it.
Yo, I really enjoyed this video. It's refreshing to hear everything laid out bare, no ifs ands or buts about it, and to hear just, such an earnest, raw monologue about this. I know it probably wasn't your intention when you were making this video, but some parts of it actually reminded me about how me and other people sometimes get on your case about Kirby. I remember before your Star Allies review I and a lot of other people took issue with the fact that you seemed to be really dismissive of the Kirby series as a whole, and sometimes even being a little snide about the amount of attention Kirby got compared to other big name IPs, but the backlash was too much, and I hate that it feels like we scared you away from the series. I know you were disappointed by Star Allies, but if you ever get the chance to play Return to Dreamland on Wii, or Triple Deluxe or Planet Robobot on 3DS, I implore you: Give Kirby another chance. Discover the games that we were hoping Star Allies would live up to. I think Kirby's Return to Dreamland is on the WiiU eShop-- that would be my recommendation 👍
Imagine having Star Allies as your favourite Kirby game. After seeing so many posts on how it's objectively bad/not as good as the other modern entries/the worst Kirby game ever made, I'm feeling a lot like a modern Paper Mario fan.
@@bluekirby_64 ignore the people who say it's straight up bad, bc they're wrong. But it did suffer a lot in the level design, pacing and balancing from focusing so hard on the allies mechanic. Also, the main story is really short, and while Heroes in Another Dimension extends the playtime significantly and provides a lot of the challenge that was missing from the main game, it's aesthetic variety leaves a lot to be desired. Definitely not the worst Kirby game, and not _bad,_ but it has a lot of missed potential.
yeeeaaaah these “arguments” are really why i stay away from fandoms in general. i prefer to just discuss what i like within my friendgroup only. i try to venture out on the internet, and regret it Every Time- (not just the the papermario peeps, but “fans” of things in general are RABID) P.S. i like origami king loool
I love the nostalgia blind argument since I actually played TTYD after Origami King and yeah, that game provides a fond experience Origami King just refuses you. Also I'm not on Twitter but I wonder if it's still anywhere as bad as it was 2 years ago.
![Paper Mario's Fandom Explained With a Broken Family Analogy [Redux]](/img/1.gif)
Arlo: If I like less than half of the games am I a true fan?
Monkey Ball Fans: *sweats nervously*
Sonic the Hedgehog fans: First time?
i heavaly feel this damn
That's a bunch of pressure for me if I put myself in that situation.
Does the "true fan" argument even mean anything when most of the fans only like a few of the games?
Super Monkey Ball only has 3 main games, Adventure, 3 handheld games, Banana Blitz, & Step N Roll though. I enjoyed all the games in that series which I played personally. I only haven't played 1 of the handheld games, Step N Roll, & Deluxe. Super Monkey Ball's only game since Step N Roll was the HD Port of Banana Blitz, it's like several other abandoned Sega Series only it had more games than just 1-4. Remember Ristar, Nights, Burning Rangers, & a few others?
I haven’t heard from GameFly in like 5 years. I can’t believe they randomly sponsored Arlo.
Edit: Apparently my comment was sponsored by GameFly as well. Thank you?
Ikr I remember seeing the commercials on tv years ago then I just completely forgot they existed until now
Blast to my Disney channel days
Sameeee
@@purpleghost9020 Bruh I kid you not where I live I see gamefly commercials quite frequently.
I started getting ads on YT a year ago from them. Haven't recently though.
I haven't watched the whole video but the Splatoon example, holy shit now I get how much bothering is for you damn, I'm sorry you deal with such big bummer
You can apply this to anything that has polarized the fan base. It's the reason why the pokemon fanbase as been so negative to Sword and Shield.
well the splatoon example was much more exgagerated than the reality of paper mario with the exception of sticker star, but he did make a great point in the first 2 differences lol
Its a really stupid comparison though, it has nothing to do with this case, there are areas where origami King is clearly better than TTY for instance, way more gameplay variety in Origami and way better pacing with no backtraking.
@@alejandropradalozano6525 you really just have no fucking clue how the old games even worked then.
DmC flash backs.
Trying to have a civil discussion on Twitter is futile regardless of the subject matter.
When the website is essentially designed for toxic “discussion” then you don’t really have much to do about it.
What about shoes?
The lewd side of the site is surprisingly the most civil.
@@doesntexist9547 I've seen lewd stuff creep up in trending, and I agree that it's surprisingly chill from what I've seen - now I'm no lewd fan myself, the worst I usually see is people being disgusted that NSFW stuff was trending
True but I've met some good people on it and such.
"Twitter is exclusively my social media presence"
Well that was your first mistake my friend
To be fair, it doesn’t get much better anywhere else. It might even get worse, like on Facebook.
BrutalSax Twitter is one of the worst social media’s out there
@@thezombiefan777 Someone hasn't been to Reddit yet
Simply Tired it really is. But at the very least it’s limited to only one. There isn’t a good platform
You guys act like Twitter is some hellspawn; it's entirely dependent on who you follow. Also, literally any social media platform can be filled with toxicity
I don’t understand how he makes this puppet so expressive, like honestly, “If I don’t get some new games to play I... will... Die.” The eyes peer directly at you even tho they don’t move. I don’t get it, but I love it
Wait... so you're saying he's not ACTUALLY the puppet?!
... lies
Griffin Brown I mean we can never really know for sure, maybe the puppet is the one in controle of the flesh bag
@@KegaB3 Arlo is actually the puppet controling Arlo controlling the puppet controling Arlo controlli
Griffin Brown I believe it,
Also, Gryffindor pride my guy, I like it
@@KegaB3 Named after it my dude ;)
Everybody: *talking about Paper Mario*
Me: "... Gamefly is still relevant?"
In an age of $100 games (in Australian dollars), Gamefly is actually more relevant than ever.
@@HOTD108_ thats honestly very interesting, with all the game pass talk being tossed around and steam and psn monthly discounts? The next gen having disk-less versions? Granted stadia and ea's attempts were very poor, but gamefly hasn't been relevant in America for....i don't know how long, and with talks of us games possibly going up to 70 usd, which is roughly 100 aud, I dont think its going to be relevant in America for a while
granted my rural internet, which is horrible by American urban standards, is considered the average of Australia, so that too also kinda plays a fact id imagine
Yeah I thought they went bankrupt or something, lol
Haven't seen an ad for them on TV since I was 9
It’s how I played RDR2, RE3R, DE and CODMW2019 for 1$ in one month. Yea it’s still relevant.
You don't even have to imagine that Splatoon scenario. Just think if Federation Force 2 was announced instead of Prime 4.
And incidentally, that scenario would make Tabata responsible for both series fundamentally changing for the worse (since Tanabe was also in charge of Federation Force, as well as Chibi Robo Zip Lash apparently).
Fed Force was a spinoff. Sticker Star to OK are sequels in the Paper Mario franchise. Fed Force was NEVER going to change Metroid for the worse. It was just a one off thing to try and flesh out the joke that is the Galactic Federation and maybe touch on the corruption thing from Fusion that only Other M decided to touch afterwards (though that game's plot takes place before Fusion chronologically).
EspurrsEyes42, yeah, it's like Hey Pikmin more than anything. Both of those games weren't going to change the franchise for the worst. They're just mediocre spinoffs.
@@espurrseyes42 That's why "imagine" is a key word here. A second Federation Force and suddenly it wouldn't be a spin-off anymore. It'd be its own series. And if Prime 4 wasn't being developed, they'd be the only Prime games to come out since 3. Reality is thankfully kinder to Metroid fans.
Federation Force Alpha Ex Plus 2: Championship Edition
Arlo: "So they roll by just long enough to call me a whiny, entitled-"
RUclips Ad: "-LETTUCE!"
I see the algorithm is improving...
MOOD
Yes please?
Timing is everything. Remember that!
I got the commercial for Pepsi! Am I doing something wrong? since late 2016 all I get is pepsi commercials over and over!
I must be important to them, maybe my hair needs fire...
Weird!
The comments of this comment section contains:
50% of people talking about opinions of Paper Mario
35% of people talking about how Twitter is a bad platform
15% of people talking about how they haven't heard of GameFly in forever
50% is pretty high
obligatory 0.1% naming the percentages comments reply because that's an original joke
So the Mario fans are just having a taste of what Sonic fans used to be about their franchise?
@@whaleping Yeah...wait, "used to be"? The only thing Sonic fans can agree on is that he's blue. XP
Dullard D. Bones And that he doesn’t look like an abomination, remember that.
Though, even non-Sonic fans agree that he doesn’t look like an abomination (Pre-Movie release design).
I've had someone refer to me as a member of the "TTYD Nazi Party" led by "Arlo Hitler." They were being completely serious.
Somewhat interesting considering the enemies in TTYD.
That is both amazing and stupid. I’m not sure how to react
Ngl that’s kind of hilarious tho
That's just awful, I feel bad for you!
fawful is an awesome youtuber and is in no way toxic. I can't believe someone would say such a thing.
"I like going online and complaining about games I haven't played."
- Francis, Super Paper Mario
Well to be honest i kinda did that but it was SAO so i don't feel bad about it
He was ahead of his time
Pretty much twitter with people saying TOK is automatically bad and people saying TTYD is bad when most of the people saying that most likely didn’t even try the game
@@luigissidekick861 IKR, I get irritated when someone says something about a game that is good/bad to them, when they didn’t even play it. They could’ve just said “it looks good/bad etc.” which makes sense but they can be honest.
I mean, I’m complaining how I literally can’t play Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door legally because NINTENDO WON’T FREAKING RERELEASE IT.
Arlo: “Talking about Paper Mario has become kind of awful.”
Me: looks over at Aramaru, Dave Mathew, and Mr. Hater.
“You have a point.”
Dude I was thinking the exact same thing as soon as I saw this video pop up 😂☠️
Who are they?
@@DoctorSargeMD The longest and angreist comment thread on youtube started on a paper mario video and moistcr1tikal made a video on it
Aramaru just wanted to be pissed in peace
that was only 0.1% paper mario and 99.9% dave referring to people as insects
I'm seeing a lot of people accuse me of making generalizations about "supporters," but I think a lot of you are forgetting that I'm not talking about REASONABLE supporters in this video. As with the "critics," I'm talking about the most extreme, fanatical examples. Obviously lots and lots of TOK fans have played the old games, and many of them are being super civil. But I personally rarely (if ever) see a fanatical, anti-TTYD supporter say they've played the old games. Heck, very often they haven't even played TOK, they just like to fight with people they think are being annoying. Point is, if you're having a civil discussion about any of this, you're not the kind of person I'm talking about in this video.
Also, it's come to my attention that the audio in this video is a little quiet. Sorry about that, must have been some kind of editing mix-up we didn't notice. Honestly, based on past experience, there is a 98.3% chance it was my fault, LOL.
No problem. But to be fair, sword and shield sucked.
Me sees the sponsor for GAMEFLY •_• hey that’s pretty good
Arlo please stop using twitter. It’s such a horrible website that brings nothing but negative emotions. Please Arlo, you deserve to be happy so get out of twitter. It’ll work wonders for your own happiness.
Hard not to let the negativity get to you but hope everything is well Arlo!
Me: *peacefully sitting in bed watching Arlo at a moderate volume*
Ad: Fog horn.
Twitter is suffering, return to the real world friend we miss you.
Oh yeah...COVID...
To be fair, the real world is kind of a shitshow now😅
@@ECL28E Nintwitter is a shit hole and it doesn't deserve Arlo. Him critiquing Nintendo already made him a target.
@@magnus5747 And Twitter emplefies the shit part
Twitter is still a thing?
You’d think assuming a neutral stance is the best stance to take in this situation, but nope. Instead of having both the critics and supporters at least understand with the points you make, you instead get flack from both parties. This “if you’re not with me, you’re against me” mentality really needs to die, but sadly it isn’t going to anytime soon.
I'm sure you've heard the expression, "those in the middle of the road are the most likely to get run over."
neutral stance is not the best stance
Being honest is. Say your opinion honestly and clearly, then watch the world burn.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
The worst part is that said mentality will only die when humanity dies.
@Mariophreak Middle Road is just a hunting ground in ALMOST EVERY CASE, NOW!!
I'm... very shocked Gamefly is still alive o.o
Me too, I remember when they sent you discs like Netflix used to! Might consider it for next gen, since I have less time to play games now and it's a bit hard to justify spending 60-70 dollars on a game that I might not even get to play very much.
I didn't know they still existed either!
@@dianaburn2474 pretty sure netflix still sends discs, it's a different plan but they have a waaaay bigger library in that plan. My movie buff friend has that plan. It's good for people like my friend who are into the history of the film indusy. They have almost all the old classic Hollywood movies
Yeah I thought they had gone the way of Blockbuster lmao
They're crap now. I tried to order Mario Kart 8 Deluxe from them for Christmas a few years ago but they fucked up and gave it to me TWO WEEKS LATE! I just gave up and bought the game.
8:11 "Here's sixty bucks!"
...t-that's one hundred and eighty-six bucks...
For me a line is crossed when "Objectivity" gets thrown into the mix and used as a weapon. In general, I've come to despise that term because people assume it automatically validates them. Just saying something is objective doesn't make it so, and to me when people claim their take is "objective" it actually invalidates their argument a little bit.
I firmly believe that games are art, and like any art design philosophy is subjective and will never please everyone. Disagreements are inevitable. Some people just want to see the same formula refined to higher quality. Others want a radically different experience every time. Some people don't even like any of the games. Any fanbase is like this, and it usually stems from a singular title that is considered the "divergence point". Elder Scrolls has the argument of the series dumbing down since Morrowind. Smash Bros has the argument of the series being more casual since Melee. Final Fantasy now has a divergence since the games are usually action-oriented and no longer turn-based.
I myself give every game a chance, even if I have a favorite. This is another problem I see: That unless the golden standard is surpassed, a new game is trash. Some people enjoy Origami King but will say they like TYD better. For the vocal minority, however, it's all or nothing. I mean, if I can't enjoy something that exceeds my best experience that I would never enjoy another 2d platformer because I still thing Yoshi's Island is the absolute best in that category. What I can respect from you Arlo is that while critical of the new game's direction, you will still give credit to aspects that are actually good and enjoyable. That's what we need more of; people that will be honest with not only others, but themselves. The "flawless or garbage" stance is too common in discourse, to the point that I also get grouped into an extreme category even when I often stand in the middle on something.
I have never been in love with a comment this much before. I utterly _despise_ the use and abuse of "objectivity" in opinionated discussions.
As far as I'm concerned, some opinions can be objective, but if someone claims their opinion is objective and can't prove it, they should not call their opinion such. It isn't.
@@delta3244 This, neither subjectivity nor objectivity can be used as a shield without proper evidence and argumentation.
Hiding behind subjectivity when the other side has true evidence for their case, is just as bad as just throwing objectivity around.
@@delta3244 For me the problem then is how some people go about opinion vs. fact. Is something just your opinion or is it a an actual fact? What's the metric standard? Is it because the majority agree with you? Does that mean any minority in any community is simply wrong? Opinion and objective don't go together. If an opinion is objective, it's not an opinion- it's a fact. You can explain your opinions and lay down arguments and examples for your perspective, but they are still just one person's take on a piece of media.
All opinions are subjective. Saying that TOK is a good or bad game is a subjective opinion, no matter the reasoning. Saying that TOK has seriously diverged from the origins of the series is an objective fact. No one can deny how much the direction of the Paper Mario series has shifted, it simply has. It's almost in a different genre now. Whether or not the series is still good, that all comes down to personal preference and what people want from their experience.
My point is that people trying to claim "Objectivity" when it comes to games are often trying to really claim some sort of moral high ground to insist that you can't disagree with their take. It's an attempt to deflect any counter before it's even made. That's really the problem with this entire critic vs. supporter debacle: Both extremes insist they are objectively right, when in reality neither can be.
@@delta3244 not really no.
So essentially the Paper Mario fanbase has become Anakin;
"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy!"
Only a sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.
except there are 2 of them. It's essentially like putting 2 of those talking tom apps next to each other and just seeing what happens.
In a weird way, they’re also like Obi-Wan. Both extremes believe they have the high ground 😂
Lol
@@iakan6937 “This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!”
You can like The Origami King
You can not like The Origami King
You can still be a fan of the series regardless of the games you like.
Just stop throwing insults at each other.
Color Splash years were terrible, we don’t want a repeat of that.
@@crunchytacosupreme1597 Because it's a 30 minute old comment?
you dont like color splash? youre part of the problem.
@Jade Fire That is _not_ what they said. They were talking about the fanbase during Color Splash’s release.
Sticker Star years were even worse.
sticker star was worse though
There are three topics that would likely start a heated argument:
1. Politics
2. Religion
3. One's opinion on the Paper Mario games
@Darling Vexa Art the day stages were actually good, even if it was the beginning of the highly devisive "boost era", but the night stages sucked
Oh and the Pokemon games starting with X and Y and it really gets rough by time you get to Sword and Shield.
The Great Pumpkin
Politics and race, hardly anyone gives a crap about religious issues anymore.
Darling Vexa Art I wouldn’t really call that an unpopular opinion anymore. Most people have grown on it, especially given Forces’s mixed reception. Unleashed is in my top 5, for sure, and it desperately needs a PC port.
> Twitter is where I have most of my discussion
There's your problem, Arlo. Twitter is just a cesspool of crap, it's short message nature is not conducive to long form, thought out discussion. At best, it's good for snippy hot takes that ruffle some feathers, but also get people thinking and talking.
If you want to actually discuss things, do it literally anywhere else.
*EDIT:* Some people are fairly pointing out that it's not something that is limited to twitter, so I'll elaborate a bit:
Twitter is a breeding ground for toxic behavior because of the nature of the website. Yes these problems happen elsewhere, and arlo addresses most of the core concerns of that in the video. I'm just pointing out how using twitter, especially *exclusively,* is exasperating the problem.
Hear hear!
Couldn't have summarized it better.
While this is true, the fact he got the same kind of discussions in his RUclips comments is telling on how awful it is to discuss Paper Mario :/
You dropped this, Billy 🥚
@@ThatOneDudeWhoPostsStuff Arlo wants a echo chamber of people agreeing with him. When he called himself a whiny entitled fan boy, he's stelling the truth.
@@666slateran666 He's explained plenty of times how and why this isn't the case. Also, he likes the Origami King.
"The era of the internet" made it so every opinion is now a sports team, where you defend it no matter what at any cost because you tie your identity to it, if someone doesn't like what you like or disagrees wtih you they're personally attacking you and everything you believe in and you have to stand up for what you know is the real and only option! Happens in meaningless things like sports or fandoms and happens in more important things like politics, there's no room for middle ground or room for nuanced conversations. So pick your teams and have fun fighting everyone else who clearly choose the wrong one.
Sad.
yeppp… that’s basically what’s happening now with paper mario
You need to watch CGP Grey’s “This video will make you angry.” It explains why this stuff happens and knowing why has helped me deal with these kinds of people.
Third the motion.
I've never related to a a title less because 99% of my paper mario info and discussion comes from Arlo videos, also known as dopamine machines
Now that I've watched it I wish this video was required viewing for absolutely everyone on the internet
People need to learn to allow people to dislike games, I even liked sticker star but I don't get frustrated whenever anyone says they don't like the game because there's an actual reason for and most people aren't hating just for the sake of hating
I actually REALLY liked Sticker Star! Its actually -- and I could get CRUCIFIED for saying this -- my favorite game of the series. Granted, I have only experienced the other Paper Mario games via let's-play but haven't been compelled enough, by watching gameplay, to actually PLAY them myself. (Also, personally, I don't prefer games that have a lot of dialogue; I'm more of a gameplay-focused, casual gamer.) Also, I kinda knew, before playing Sticker Star, the solutions to some of the more obtuse puzzles (which there definitely are a handful of). But the game, overall, just had a lot of charm to me; it fit me really well.
Though I do recognize that it has flaws, I, unlike you, actually DO get a little frustrated whenever anyone lambasts the game, decrying it as nothing more than an "irredeemable game with absolutely NO good qualities about it". As someone who really appreciates the game for what it is, I just hear those sentiments far, far too much!
@@alkankondo89 I love sticker star too!!
Yeah it's the same for me, I adore the original PS1 Spyro trilogy more than any other games in the world.. But I really didn't like a lot of the decisions and directions made with the Reignited Trilogy.. But ever since RT has come out I find it hard to be able to talk to others about Spyro without them getting violent just because I don't praise the remakes like they're God's gift. I have found a few places where I can talk about Spyro without causing backlash just because I don't love the remakes, but there's also a lot of places I almost can't go to anymore because of it.
It's just unfortunate really.
@@bobafettarchives7666 Haha, cool! Sticker Star fans UNITE (... all 10 of us... 😅)!
@@cookiesontoast9981 I can support that. I never played the originals, but though I liked the game’s overall art direction, there’s plenty of nasty bugs, especially in Spyro 3. Those skateboards are made of toothpicks.
TTYD is one of my favorite games of all time, and I still love Origami King.
That is all.
@Shinjuru Ryu Guru We do exist. Granted, I do see them as two very different games that I like in different ways, but that was also true of SPM when I first played.
WRONG!!!!1!!1 1000 YEAR DOR IS OBJEKTIVELY THE BEST IN TE SEREES!1! ITS BETTR THAN THE OTHES BCUZ ITS ACCTUALY GUD!!1! AND I THINK SO AN MY OPINION MATTERS MOST
Your speeding gives me a rash oh my fucking god 🤨
Tyd is my favorite game of all time but I the other game look fine but sticker star is bad that I decided to skip the next two games which I might tried them but sticker stats is bad
"Impossible"
Stuff like this has actually become the main reason I stopped using Twitter, the place is such a cesspool of arguing that it just stopped being fun for me.
Ew Twitter.
Get off Twitter. Start using forums instead. The Twitter format is fundamentally flawed.
I have never used Twitter really, & it seems Arlo has found the "No Respect for Neutrality" that extremists on both sides share. Personally I have better things to do than to explain why Thousand Year Door is the best Paper Mario & why Origami King was great to a bunch of crazy people on the internet. The country I'm in is on the verge of war over this huge election between the Nazipublicans & Bidenists. It's not the internet, it's the times we're living in.
After using Twitter for a few months, 4chan seems tame now by comparison. That site really lowered my faith in humanity... had to stop using the site so I didn't lose all of it.
@@ikeshrafter It's the fact that anonymity thrives on 4chan & they tend to keep to themselves while people on Twitter can choose to be anon or not and get rewarded and go borderline viral for being nasty and flippant. It's such an awful platform and I hate the herd mentality on there... but we're all on there so we do it to ourselves.
That Splatoon analogy.... really got to me. If it _wasn’t_ obvious, I’m a Splatoon fan, love it to bits. I think of myself as civil and an open discussioner, tried to have a discussion with a friend about Origami King, but he kept putting words in my mouth when I was just playing devil’s advocate. I understand both sides, even though I’m a critic. To see the series you love change for the worse and continue to stick to what’s not working while constantly criticized and insulted for liking how it originally was......... sounds like hell. To be shunned because you care about it and want it to be the best it can.... god it sounds horrible. I’m not a huge Paper Mario fan, but I am a Nintendo lover and I know and care about nearly all of their IP’s. A series I _was_ a huge fan of, one that brought so many amazing, unforgettable memories for me, was the Mario & Luigi series. It... it’s really important to me for so many reasons, so I can understand how others can have that same feeling towards the Paper Mario series. I want Paper Mario to truly embrace its past, make Mario Story 4. That’s what I want, and I think many others. I don’t want another Mario series to disappear... this is the biggest one left.....
Love what you love, and be civil when discussing your opinions
Splatoon analogy was complete ass imo like he basically said, "imagine being a Splatoon fan and then Nintendo releases Splatoon 3 and all the fun is gone" this is a completely biased analogy since it's clear to anyone that the concepts and ideas he provided are clearly intended to be viewed as just a worse variation, not a different one, honestly the worst part of the video by far.
@@Cakiso "it's clear to anyone that the concepts and ideas he provided are clearly intended to be viewed as just a worse variation" That's how it FEELS for many new critics, a clearly worse variation. The point of the analogy isn't to represent both sides of the situation accurately, it's to help the new supporters understand how the new critics FEEL, and it has to be a more overt and exaggerated version of the real situation in order to accomplish that.
I’m glad you can see that. I played Super Paper Mario, having tons of nostalgia, and the same for M&L Dream Team. I loved Super Paper Mario because of its amazing story and somewhat gimmicky but still fun gameplay. It took what I loved about 2D Mario and added all sorts of cool stuff that put New Super Mario Bros. Wii to shame. I know that I while this may not be a reliable way to base my opinion, I think of myself as a critic when I try to think of a Super Paper Mario story with Mario and Luigi Gameplay. And I know TTYD is even better, due to things like partners and how every move is like a mini game.
8:11 Arlo: "Here's my 60 bucks!"
Also Arlo: sticks out $186
I just figure Arlo Money works like dog years, where he thinks it's the same amount 😁
It’s like pricing things for Australia, you add an extra $126 and you have the cheap version
I noticed that too. I'm a bit worried he's forgotten how to do basic maths..
@@Underestimated37 I understand that pain
i think he overpaid
One thing nobody mentions about the Paper Mario games: They have amazing translations. I'm Spanish, but I prefer to play most games in English nowadays. Except for Paper Mario. This doesn't have much to do with anything, I just thought I would mention it
Yeah I agree. Except Sticker Star, I feel every Paper Mario game localization translators are good. I'm not sure how they do it, but they are doing it right. That's one thing consistent throughout the series. The writing is good.
How do you make Sticker Star have good writing?
Anyone who can do that given the bare story is a beyond-masterful localizer.
When you don't respect your own language...
And use the most spoken language only because it's the most spoken and overrated language and ironically, I'm writing in that language now.
@@mep6302 As a Russian I somewhat agree. I prefer things I watch and play to be in Russian.
You realize the English is a translation right?
I have to say: well said. It's something I think everyone is guilty of, to some degree or another. This is something that I think has gotten progressively worse in recent years. Mostly, I imagine, because people are getting so comfortable with the anonymity of the internet. Not only are they able to hide behind a keyboard taking potshots at whoever they disagree with, but the person they are "fighting" is too distant to really register as... a person.
That and probably boredom, or wanting to get a rise out of people. Or even hoping to "convert" someone to the "correct" way of thinking. I'll fully admit, sometimes it's hard to feel like my own opinion is valid when I hear/read so much vitriol or praise to the contrary. So I can even see that being a reason, almost using it as a way to convince yourself that you're right. That would even account for the outright refusal to acknowledge contrary opinions, being scared that your own opinion might change.
I just try to always interact with people as if I'm talking to them face-to-face, and treat them how I'd like to be treated. I won't change anything major, but I'll do my best to mitigate the problem.
As a huge splatoon fan, the analogy was really good and now I'm scared
They better not...
Hey maybe it can be like Mario Party and it would be "cool" to talk trash on a bad new direction.
PipeGuy64Bit still not worth it. I have 1130 hours on the game and am on a competitive team so
Never played Splatoon, looks pretty fun, maybe I'll pick it up during the holidays.
*shudder*
I really hope people don’t misread the title and miss the first two words.
SAME
How could you miss the words "paper Mario" when reading the title?
"Talking About How Paper Mario Has Become Kind Of Awful"
well... it is true.
SMH everyone knows that Paper Mario is OBJECTIVELY a game.
EDIT: You're not a _REAL_ fan unless you enjoy one or more of the games!
@Darling Vexa Art Aw man, I love this joke that I started of everything everyone says here being correct facts that aren't opinions.
@Darling Vexa Art Nah man, I was just agreeing with you on that one totally objective non opinion at the end there (which by the way is a fact).
shit ive been thinking about a good addition to this for days
@Darling Vexa Art whoops wrong video
everyone knows that paper mario fans like both Mario and paper
As someone who really use to enjoy discussing Nintendo games online, I completely agree and understand where you’re coming from, Arlo. I primarily stick to Reddit (so my experience may differ a bit) but I typically only have so much time to post and read on social media about games. Having to sift through the wall of negativity and aggressiveness looking for a genuine, civil discourse that comes with ANY discussion online these days has become frustrating to the point of prohibitive. Unfortunately, I only see the people who ARE a part of the problem either responding the same, negative way to this video OR taking only the points that support their side rather than taking stock and reflecting on how they’re making their communities less enjoyable to be a part of. I don’t really see this being an issue that can be fixed or solved without having to police ideas and opinions, which also seems wrong. Maybe we can all just try to get along?
Even allowing for the policing of ideas/opinions does not fix the problem of people fighting over said ideas/opinions. It just gives one side more power while taking away from the rest.
Delta agreed!
What a commentary on our current political environment! I don't think you meant for it to be, but when you think about it, if people get into flame wars over something as inconsequential as a video game what are they gonna be like on topics w more weight behind em.
Holy jesus please put a tldr please that is a long paragraph
Jana Haynes TL;DR don’t be a jerk online 😊
As a splatoon fan, your example was truly terrifying
And the sad fact is that he's just channeling reality. Many game series do most of what he described, give or take a tiny bit of exaggeration.
agreed as splatoon 3 released last year and i thought to myself if they took away the things i loved about octo expansion and didn’t put it in splatoon 3 i would listen to that type of argument i would have been livid as would most people
"you're just a ttyd fan"
Me, who likes spm the most,: ah yes, ttyd
Everyone else would tell you to pick a damn side lol. Good on you though, that’s a fun one
While I like ttyd, I also have to say that spm is by far my favorite.
Me, who hasn't even played TTYD, only 64 and Super. "Umm, No?"
Sort of like Pokemon Genwunners 😂😂
Meanwhile SPM was the start of the downfall of the series for me and I hated it. I love the original Paper Mario. TTYD is mechanically superior but I felt it lost some of the charm of the original. Then it's been nothing worth my time ever since.
Muh GenWun.
Discussing Paper Mario nowadays is like discussing politics.
True
Pen Bashiro, MD Ooh, that looks interesting.
It's worse. My brother in law is a socialist but I don't know if I could handle it if he was a Color Splash fan...
I think it is more of a start to a war. But nobody will be doing anything.
Or religion.
Arlo: “This video is sponsored by GameFly”
Me: “Haven’t heard this name in like 6 years”
I used to see commercials for it all the time on Cartoon Network.
I can't believe they exist
I always got pissed when it would come on after an episode of gumball
yea me too and it’s kinda out of order as of now asvif you want to try out a game and return it just buy it online and delete it afterwards if you don’t like it it’s literally replaced game fly at this point no offense
I feel like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place because I don't hate Origami King and quite enjoyed it as a stand-alone game (and so the critics revolt), but without a doubt I believe that Thousand Year Door was the heyday and epitome of Paper Mario and I'd give anything to go back to that winning formula or at least take steps in that direction again (and so origami king supporters revolt).
The game is overall good (Something I cannot say about the last 3 pokemon) but has HUGE FLAWS who doesn't allow it to be great. Writting is inconsistent specially at the end, Nintendo still has a serious censorship with the characters, regular battles are still too long while giving too little and most problems of the game is associated to that last aspect, specially when you consider how those drag down the pacing.
It can use the comedy from origami king tho, that can stay
@@voltagetortoiz3137 I did enjoy the meta comedy included, thought they did a good job making the dialogue interesting and it didn't feel mind numbing or a waste of time to talk to every character (which I like doing)! :)
You could do what the Bug Fables guys did and just make your own :P
@@swishfish8858 bug fables was phenomenal
“Let’s say you love splatoon”
You know me too well.
the best part of this, is this can be applied to ANYTHING involving a debate.
Actually it's an argument, by definition it's not a debate, unless you're going by presidential debate standards then it definitely is
Arlo: Shows Gamefly
Me: *has Gamefly commercial flashbacks*
I didn't even know they still existed.
@@stanthebuilding8273 u and me both
“flashback intensifies”
@@spimtmot733 I probably should have used that comment template instead :p
“a company that’s abusive to its employees”
*activision & blizzard logos on screen*
DAM RITE ARLO thank u for calling them out haha
Literally everyone thinks this, sell isn’t like a brave hero calling out the hidden flaws of a loved company
Holy fucking shit Arlo predicted the future yet again!
Pokemon,Star Wars and Paper Mario are the franchises that aren't fun to talk about anymore
Agree
Unless it’s the Star Wars TV shows because they managed to not fuck those up.
@@shranos2112 I enjoyed them too
... The first time I played.
Then I could see all the flaws...
I'd still enjoy 'em though
@@shranos2112 I loved them. Most of the issues people were complaining about were silly or non existent. That isn't to say there aren't flaw, there are, just not ones that are too big of deals like reusing Haus animations and such
@@shranos2112 Agreed. Are the games flawed? Absolutely. My biggest disappointment was them not fleshing out the later gyms (biggest example would probably be the 7th gym), and how certain points felt very rushed. But i still really enjoyed swsh. That's what I wish people would understand, a game can have flaws and can still be liked by plenty of people.
"obviously at the end of the day none of this matters too much"
Pretty much sums up all yt drama
As someone who loves both TTYD and Origami King for their individual merits, this is a heavily relatable video.
@Darling Vexa Art Yeah. Origami King is a step in the right direction. My favorite Paper Mario game is the first one for N64. I also like TTYD and Super Paper Mario.
I liked both too and I find it ridiculous that civil conversations can't be had.
Origami King is terrible, but TTYD is pretty good.
This is what always happens with "internet discourse." You can't expect reasonable conversation when virtually anyone is able to chime in.
The Paper Mario community will crumble like the Atlanta Falcons.
"Nope, you're nitpicking and biased. I win, bye bye!"
Darn if only they didn’t state that they won, I would’ve gotten the upper hand
MASTAPEEECE
Aaaayyy
You'd think he called SUPAH MARIO BRUDDAHS 2 not game of the year or something
DAMN IT!.. you win again...
"You're not a real fan if you like the new games."
"You're not a real fan unless you can accept ALL the games."
My experience with the Crash Bandicoot fanbase in a nutshell.
smh youre only a REAL fan if you have 3 blades that spin quickly using a motor for the sole purpose of cooling something down smh
@k ? I think people avoid using this argument in the Star Wars community because too many people dislike the prequels for it to make sense. I think more people take the opposite view, that liking the prequels or sequels makes you less of a fan.
Now that I think about it, being fan of art doesn't even make much sense. In the football world, you are a fan if you support a team and want to see them win, therefore a "real fan" is someone who always roots for their team even when their team is doing badly. However, art can't win or lose, it can only be enjoyed. Having the mentality that you must like all games or movies in a franchise, even when they're not as good as before, to be a real fan is just silly. You will respond to some positively and to others negatively, you really can't decide what you're going to like.
Perhaps they want us to accept all OLD Games?
@@anhilo9716 Uhhhmmm acksually my ceiling fan has 5 blades? What is it not a REAL fan? Hmmmm?
"I like Crash 4: it's about time. That is my answer to that statement."
The one thing I’m tired hearing from critics (and you even said it in the video) “You like the new games? You must have not played the old ones, or you played the new ones first.” I see it so much, anytime I want to talk about them, I always preface how I started with The Thousand Year Door, it’s one of my favorites, and how I enjoy every game in the series. Being a fan of all of the games can be hard, because people want to keep throwing you into on group or another.
I think the reason he brings that up is because of the responses he says he gets from supporters.
If a critic says "I don't like the mechanic in [new game] and think the mechanic in [old game] was better" and a supporter responds with "Well you're just blinded by nostalgia", that doesn't illustrate that the supporter understands what the critic is talking about and it offers nothing in terms of an argument. Unless you can travel backward through time, there isn't anything you can't say someone is nostalgia-blind about. What I mean is, something has to exist for there to be a sequel of it. So, anything that recieves a sequel lends itself to the "argument" that fans of the original are blinded by nostalgia. That is not to say nostalgia isn't or can't be a factor in someone's attitude towards a game, but without being able to know that definitively, it's a moot point.
Instead, if a supporter were to say "The mechanic in [new game] works well due to [change in game], whereas the old mechanic would not work well here due to [reason]", then I don't think Arlo would be making this video.
As he says, it seems to him like the people saying he's "nostalgia blind" or "hates change" don't understand his criticism or don't recognize why he likes the old games, which could be (though not necessarily) because they haven't played the old game.
Sorry this is as long as it is, I just wanted it to come off more so as the way I understood what Arlo was saying, I'm not trying to argue with what you're saying.
MasterChief0522 I know his reasoning behind it, and I never said he was wrong on certain cases. I’m just saying it’s, personally, one of the things I’m so tired of hearing. I used to just say how I like Sticker Star, or how Color Splash is one of my favorites, and that’s it. Then, a lot people would say “Must be your first one” or “Haven’t played the others.” After so many times, it gets tiring/annoying, causing me to always preface the opposite when bringing it up to deter those comments and replies. Totally agree the whole “nostalgia blind” thing is overblown, but doesn’t stop people from making assumptions, and you know what they say about that...
i emulated the first paper mario game. i am immune to such pettiness now!
I get it. I'm a huge fan of the Metroid series and I enjoyed playing Other M when it came out. However I also fully understand everyone's critiques of the game and that many people consider it terrible. I'm sure if I ever went online and told people that I enjoyed playing it I would be inundated with replies telling me that I should play the better games even though I already have played them.
I also think Arlo has a point when he says that many people who comment on things also tend not to be really acquainted with what they're talking about. You see it a lot these days and unfortunately it ruins it for those of us who can play games and enjoy the not so great as well as the great ones.
People are just so sentimentally attached to n64 and gamecube games like that.
The people who didn't watch the video are the people who need to see it the most.
@@the9der352 You misclicked I think
@@algo985 whoops
So true. I wish I could just make people watch this video sometimes
It's honestly not just the Paper Mario fanbase...it's a major social problem in general. Identity politics is becoming the new norm and "us vs them" is too common a mindset in every facet of life, whether it's who you think should be president or what video game you like. It's honestly so sad that this social unrest even permeates into something as casual as a video game fanbase, lol. I try to be better by being an example. Be the kind of person who can have civil discourse and hope that others learn from you. It's really the only power we have, except maybe voting.
I have the same issue, whenever I want to have a conversation about a topic like BLM with someone they refuse to acknowledge an opinion that combats their own and instead choose to attack me. I've had people attack me saying that I can't have an opinion about a particular issue due to the colour of my skin or my ethnicity. In some conversations I've been called a racist because I wanted to voice my opinion and have a standard conversation even though nothing that I have said is racist in the slightest. I find that a lot of people are being mislead to believe something that has no evidence to support it and then when they proved wrong they just kick and scream and throw insults out like a toddler. It's truly wild and unfathomable how people can act like this.
The very medium we’re using right now is the problem, and will inevitably result in the downfall of civil society.
It’s ironic that the platform allowing people to have access to nearly all knowledge in the world, has ended up causing everyone to fall into their own “bubbles” of like minded people.
It’s starting to bleed out into the real world from the online one with deadly consequences...and it’s due to the always connected thing in your pocket. Or at your desk. Or smart tv. Or watch. Or any number of always-online internet browsing capable devices.
The problem is Paper Mario is very much Us vs Them.
Us who want the old ways vs Them who want the new.
Them who want the old ways vs Us who want the new.
Each is directly at the expense of the other.
If you can only have cake or ice cream what do you do?
This problem definitely predates the internet by a _long shot._ All the internet has done is allowed these conflicts to spread around the entire world at the speed of light (as opposed to at the speed of horse), and for anyone to be able to spread them rather than just those influential enough to actually get the chance to send a message.
12:44 HERE. THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE.
Exactly
I have to disagree. It's not fair to assume something like that. It sends this message that "everyone that played the old games has to automatically dislike the new ones" and that simply isn't true. Some people don't like RPGs. That's reality.
@@swishfish8858 true
Swish Fish.
I agree with you, because I have actually played all 6 games, and The Origami King is my favourite.
In fact, The Thousand-Year Door is my 5th favourite out of the 6.
And Colour Splash is my 3rd favourite.
Who can guess my least favourite, my 4th favourite and my 2nd favourite?
Also, I love all the Paper Mario’s.
@@MarioLandscape same here. Ive played them all and TTYD isnt all that. My favorite is origami king
Arlo, I absolutely agree with you. I have had the same thoughts of how fans act on both sides, it's honestly ridiculous. I've literally had people tell me I was an entitled Pokemon fan for saying that Gamefreak should take the time to make a proper complete game, to hire more staff, work with other studios if needed, pay the employees well, and provide a game with plenty of great story with beautiful animations and a fun challenge.
entitled, no. But there is an argument to be made for tempering expectations. Pokemon is notorious for toxicity and hacking once you get online (even in official tournaments), so "challenge" doesnt exist to them, and on the other side of the spectrum, you have the 10 year-olds who the pokemon company is afraid of challenging, especially with the 1 save file limitation. This likely isnt the best place for the debate, but i know many fans are in agreement with you, even if only the vocal minority responds.
@@cullenlatham2366 Here's the thing, pokemon games have been consistently cutting down content and features for no good reason since gen 5, keen fans have been bitching about this since XY, most did let slide its shortcomings back then because it was the very first 3D game, it didn't get better. The only thing that has been improving ever since are the waifu designs and an INCREDIBLY SLOW drop feed of quality of life improvements (aka, most should have been implemented generations ago, but GF purposefully does time one at a time to create an artificial sense of improvement each gen)
It not an unrealistic expectaction to expect that the Pokemon games AT LEAST have the same production value as their competitors, SPECIALLY considering they are the most successful JRPG franchise of the world BY FAR. Other studios have to make do with smaller budgets.
If you think it's unrealistic to expect higher quality and production value from a company of the size of GF, let me point to Genius Sonority, at their peak, they only had about 17 employees, and they made the 2 colloseum games and PBR. Xenoblade Cronicles 2 was developed almost entirely by less than 1/3 of its usual workforce because nintendo had them support BTOW's development. (easy math, 254 /3= 84), and they STILL can make better JRPG's than GF.
And even then, if the issue is REALLY their size and strict deadlines, they just need to do as OP suggested, hire more people or contract outside studios to compensate any insufficiency.
We just want a pokemon that's up to the same standard as the rest of the industry.
@@tumamaencosplay you misunderstand me. I may have used a neutral tone in my first reply, but it was exclusively out of respect for civility. I almost completely agree that GF could do so much better, but this video is not the right place to complain if we want to be heard, as the main topic has very little chance of reaching the people who could make a change (not that the hackers who have locked down certain regions would let the change happen anyway)...
I also agree with Arlo, but in a different way. I'm constantly in fear of being attacked because I like Pokémon SwSh, and although I'm sad that they removed the Nat. Dex and that the post-game outside of the DLC is pretty short, that still doesn't ruin the entire game. (And to be honest, less Bruxish is good for all of us.)
I try not not to talk about Pokemon anymore. I loved Pokemon Sword despite it's flaws, and I'm afraid people are going to assume that I'm excusing the game's shortcomings, but I'm not. I was disappointed by the areas where the game fell short. I simply enjoyed the game enough for them to not be a deal breaker. But I've seen people acting like the only reason Pokemon Sword and Shield are successful is purely because of "blind fanboys who buy anything Pokemon" and I don't want to be accused of being a blind fanboy just because I enjoyed a game.
Arlo is essentially trying to say "some just want to watch the world burn."
I think he included a "lighting the world on fire" part in the video as well.
DING DING DING!!! Sound like any other real world events that have been going on lately under the guise of equality? Divide and conquer my friends and they are doing a great job!!!
As a sims player I feel you... I really really do😅 watching many fans wanting everything to burn for years.
This Paper Mario situation is honestly so difficult I don't envy Nintendo in the least. Heck even I find myself torn! on the one hand I'm one of the fans that did love The Origami King but at the same time I DO miss the old style and get where fans like you are coming from!
Imo the best way to resolve this is for Nintendo to just do with Paper Mario, the same thing they do with Zelda. With Zelda we get one, maybe two, mainline entries every console generation and during the wait between entries we have spin offs and remakes. They should adopt that same method with the Paper Mario games! Basically every few years they should make a big meaty rpg in the style of TTYD and in between those entries you would have spin offs in the style of Origami King and Super Paper Mario.
Now you're probably thinking "would people really buy that many Paper Mario games??" and honestly yeah I think so. I think Paper Mario is way more popular than people realize. I mean for pete sake Arlo's channel really took off thanks to a Paper Mario video!! Not to mention the attach rate with Switch owners!! Not only that but I think this method would warm fans to the more experimental spin offs while they wait for the next RPG entry which would result in more sales and better reception for the spin offs. Not only that but having the RPG style come back would probably make for some really good PR and get old school fans really excited which would again lead to better sales. OH! maybe this would even let them get more experimental with the spin offs?? (ie something like the fabled Paper Luigi game or a Yoshi Crafted World crossover or maybe even a Paper WARIO game??? :O)
(sorry for the essay btw!! just really passionate about Paper Mario and just Nintendo in general lol)
Wow, this is a good suggestion.
Jeez and i thought arlo could talk lol
Yes please, just all yes, Everyone should like this. You’re just wrong if you think this isn’t a great idea, like this guy’s comment NOW!
I like the idea but is also important to realise that nintendo does not have infinite resources and time. If they only make 1 to 2 paper mario games a console it is extremely unlikely that they would be able to just double the number of games without repercussions. Not to mention that nintendo always wants to do something new, I doubt that they would make another game in the style of the older paper mario rpgs. Also when it comes to people buying paper mario, that number is no where near other 1st party games they had on each of their respective consoles. I personally think that the reason why the sales of origami king was so high was because a lot of people were wanting to try their first paper mario game either ever or in a long time.
I honestly can't feel bad for Nintendo. They chose to go down this path, and are aware of the criticism. They decided to kill off what people loved about the first two Games, and they have to take the good and the bad that comes with it.
Loving these videos coming up again since PMTYD remake was announced.
Super excited to finally have an opportunity to try this game that has been held up high. I have no idea what the story is about but still super excited.
As for the argument: "¿Porque no los dos?"
This is the reason I can’t talk about Pokemon anymore. I’ve been playing since the GBC and the points you made about defenders just writing people off hit real close. Pokemon has been such a big part of my life but anytime I mention literally anything that has been removed I get angry people telling me to leave the fandom, which pushed me away further. It’s sad that you can’t express fault in something you’ve loved so long
Who gives a shit what they say. Just enjoy the games
Why can't you talk about Pokemon anymore? Why are people telling you to leave? Pokemon's not a perfect series & we can be fans while being aware of faults. Gen 8 games were lackluster, although the DLC seems to be making them better games. Let's Go games were also disappointing the same way, & let's not forget everyone is really just impatient for Sinnoh Remakes that we hope greatly surpass the quality of Platinum Version. Besides Pokemon is a lot more than just games, with the anime & manga series existing as well. Maybe we could talk in a civilized way about the series if you want?
There are always people willing to talk about topics civilly, in fact in terms of Pokemon, I think you'd find most people are. It just so happens that unfortunately, the loudest ones are often the most extreme in their opinions. I personally found SwSh to be lacklustre in quite a few ways, but there were aspects I enjoyed as well, and things I wouldn't mind them bringing back and expanding upon in later entries (wild area, raids, dynamic music in gym battles, etc.). I had a dilemma similar to you, and in the end I just learned to accept different people have different views, and enjoyed the series in the way I liked. It's not as if people can exorcise you from the fanbase or something just because they disagree with you, so just look for people who share a willingness to be civil. Trust me, Pokemon is a huge fanbase, they are out there.
As a fan who arrive in gen 4. I think the game a bit of a disappoitment, But the dlc and the reveal of a new pokemon snap game really show that there is a light in the tunnel. I really hope that you're not going to leave a series you love because of some people the newer game, and you cannot say something about how bad the game is. I really think you can able to go to one of the side project pokemon have weather it is the manga, trading card game, anime, or side game. you can able to exprience pokemon with different media for what you want from the series.
Signed somebody that loss his username
WaterKirby1994 this was my post “Been with this series I was 5. Still have my crystal game cart. I spent over 200 hours on emerald alone and did even more on the ruby and sapphire. I was there for xd and even though it was a new studio still saw it as great.
Almost every single one since I’ve owned, but I don’t think I’m with this anymore.
It may be geared to children but with all the other things that are out there I can’t even say I blame them for not being interested. The game has more or less lost what made it fun. Pokemon can’t handle the jump to 3D and that’s evident. They have been rushing and continually disappointing to announce they’ve been hard at work on a phone game. With all the resources, they do a phone game. I get it, the money is there but I can’t justify purchasing main Pokemon games anymore. I’ll play the next dlc because it’s already paid for but a DLc that can be done in about an hourish isn’t worth the money, this was to add Pokemon back in at a premium. It’s sad to see how gamefreak has screwed up so bad, especially with New Snap looking absolutely gorgeous.”
People found me “attacking” game freak and just a hater of pokemon. But honestly I just miss when it had some some challenge. The sky Pilar was so frustrating as a kid and on a replay it still holds up but I haven’t had a challenging puzzle like that from Pokémon since idek anymore
Omg, don't even get me started. Criticism's taboo these days to which you can't express any remote negativity or neutrality on one end & you're not allowed to like newer games on the other spectrum in which you're a shill. You could hardly preach about it either because then someone would label you as playing the victim or just being a drama queen and that your stance or supposed problems don't exist, which is flat out disrespectfully ignorant. You could make this basis for about *any* fandom of anything, but in the span of 2-3 games, being a Paper Mario fan's genuinely exhausting & obnoxious no matter what kind of stance you take.
Dam dont really care much about the game but you need a hug?
It’s like the problem with the Pokémon and Sonic fanbases, but way more onesided against older fans
I don’t think you’re in any justifiable position to talk about this. Your twitter is filled to the brim with toxicity, throwing shade at other people, and you even go as far as to insult Americans despite them making up a huge portion of your audience. Please stop acting like you’re any better.
Here's a question. Since this is the internet and we barely know at times who the person we're talking to looks like or what their age is, can we chalk up some of the immaturity towards some of these people who are having these "arguments" as them either being naive, young, or maybe even not very bright?
I'm not surprised to find you here SMT. You've talked about this a lot and you've made good points on all of your videos.
This is the kind of political news I like of hear.
Yeah, who needs Donald Trumps?
@@otakumarcus Who needs Oblivion npc Biden either?
I don’t belong to a political party. Only party I want to be a part of is Mario Party 😎
Having a civil discussion on the internet is so dang difficult. I really hate the culture we have developed. It's not great
"Not great" is an understatement. Of course you have actual sensible people here that are willing to be civil, but they feel outnumbered by the vast amount of douchebags looking to stomp on any differing person they come across
Here's a tip: calling people out about their flawed arguments. They'll slowly change their argument style so they dont look stupid, I may just be dumb and inexperienced, but in past arguments it's always worked so
@@cosamallender3276 You're damn lucky if that strategy has worked. Usually it leads to the other person ignoring your comment entirely, since the average internet user is deep enough in their own ego to rather plug their ears and walk away than admit their own mistakes
I can’t say that color splash is good without causing WWpaper
It's not great? Correction, it's unhealthy
"this is elementary school yard level pettiness." Yup! that sums up most adults nowadays as well
Adults are immature and forgot to grow up...
Sums up American politics nicely
Even then
Elementary kids know when to drop a subject
@@isaacr9503 trust me, not just American. (saying hi from the Czech Republic)
From what I can tell from the thumbnail, talking about Paper Mario is like the discussion of Star Wars nowadays.
It would require Mario himself (Luke Skywalker / Marc Hammill) to come out and say the game is rubbish.
gamefly? why, i havent heard that name in years...
I mean there is also Red Box. Basically bending machines that let you rent new released games for 1 dollar lol
LegendaryOutcast i know, i have a redbox near me that i still use lol
WHAT about *GAMESTOP*
Still on tv too. Haven't try it yet I'm thinking about it since the Switch prices were pretty high. You can eventually keep them too in a lower price I think.
Game fly might actually flourish with the way subscription services have been throughout quarantine
I’ve seen some of the fights going on in the comments and want to say this: part of the problem is that when companies make something that is part of a series, the intent is to cash in on the fact that there are fans of the others. For example: if “The Last Jedi” had not been apart of a previous series or continuity, or had been framed as a possible future and not the definitive events that followed, there would have been way less backlash. I think that if TLJ had not been sold or marketed as the continuation of Star Wars and as it’s own thing it would have been a better movie without the backlash. I think the same could have been said of any series that takes a drastic turn. From Paper Mario to The Legend of Zelda. It also doesn’t help that Nintendo seemed so good at listening to the fans back in the mid 2000’s. When fans complained that TLZ: Wind Waker was childish and not what they wanted, they made Twilight Princess. One game was complained about a little bit and Nintendo made a game for the fans that was more like what they wanted. I’m just saying that the fan’s shouldn’t be blamed for not liking something when they don’t like it, but should be held accountable for scaring people away from a franchise or series they love because they don’t like a part of it.
I think this whole attitude towards sequels could be a culture on its own. It goes far beyond Star Wars or Nintendo.
I say just rerelease the originals for starters. I never got the chance to play them.
Emulate them bro.
And update the graphics!
@@ForrestFox626 I've played the og games on an emulator at 1080p, and the art style alone looks good for today at 1080p, they could simply port it at HD and would be amazing
@@ForrestFox626 maybe the original, but TTYD still holds up really well. Basically all gamecube games do.
666slateran666 some people like to follow the law
I feel you've done a good job at staying impartial so far and while I certainly feel thousand year door is the best game in the series, I did enjoy origami king. I feel from what you've said in you videos that you feel similarly. There shouldn't be anything wrong with preferring an older game even if others prefer the newer ones.
Is good to have some people who don't criticaze Origami King becuase is not like the old paper marios, I'm happy with that
Well, if it be, I won't say no
I'm a simple woman. I see "Paper Mario", I click.
lollykills good job simple woman
women arent real
Does that make you............. a simp?
@@thisistheplan414 can confirm you're 100% correct. I'm just perpetuating the conspiracy to keep people in the dark.
Women don't exist though?
Fans of the Sonic Adventure and Hironobu Sakaguchi Final Fantasy games: "Welcome to the club, Arlo."
Oh man. As a long time sonic fan that kind of lost interest at heros and got back in at generations... This is a very accurate comparison.
I don't hate any of the new (not broken) sonic games but adventure 1 and 2 just seemed so much more... Immersive, cohesive and feature rich for a sonic game and I mostly just wanna see the series get back to the rediculous hype days of the dreamcast
@@danswope Indeed, and I have the feeling that those games were like that because Sega threw all of their remaining resources and talent to them, particularly using the first Adventure to demonstrate all of the Dreamcast's various features. Also at that point in time, Sonic games being Sega hardware exclusives for the most part and original Sonic the Hedgehog fans growing up, it was the exact time to make ambitious games that targeted a slightly older demographic.
@@ChaosAngelZero I gota say I agree entirely.
Just an aside, I think longing for the adventure days is what made me feel so catfished by forces and I kinda feel like Sega knew what they were doing there.
Yeah, we know how it feels. Sonic fans especially
And starfox
So what you’re saying is that both extreme sides of the argument boils down to
“Nope, you are nitpicking and biased, I win, bye bye”
The new games make you really *feel* like paper.
I love Dunkey so much
what is this tu pac
Arlos' humor is evolving fast.
@@NintenDub I like it lol
It’s going to git gud
What humor are you mocking him?
@@NintenDub no one is making you watch it 😂
@@wombatpandaa9774 so true lol
You know who's a REAL fan? Air Man from Megaman 2.
You classic Mega Man fans are all the same /s
@@DekuOfPower Is that bad?
Did you miss the joke
@@DekuOfPower the joke *flies over the head*
You kidding me? He blows!
Arlo, I think the problem isn't necessarily people, its because Twitter is an awful platform that encourages people to act like this
Darling Vexa Art Real shame. Posting art is the only thing Twitter is good for.
@@bendykirby4828 Deviantart is better for that. So there is no reason to use twitter.
@@TheLegoMaster261 Pretty much. Though I'd argue DeviantArt is a hellhole in its own right
@Darling Vexa Art i got account locked yesterday for explaining game mechanics
No. It’s the users on there. It’s not like they actively promote that behavior.
Me: **Has an opinion**
The internet: “Splish splash, your opinion is trash”
Unfortunately, you're making a generalization of the internet when you say that.
@TSnintendogamer And sadly some support your preferred side badly. The dangers of sharing any opinion online...
Generally that's what happens when engaging in discussion or trying to make a point.
Expect people to chime in and challenge your opinions.
Ced von Noish lots of people that disagree with your point try to make it clear. That’s why I was assuming the whole internet was like that in my joke. Most, if not all of people trying to get attention will be critical of what your saying.
Twitter in a Nutshell
“You’re not a REAL fan!”
The phrase that keeps all reboot lovers awake at night.
I never liked saying something like that. What gives a person the right to gatekeep other people from stating what they think of a topic if they say it respectfully. Just because we don't support everything a company does doesn't make us "fake fans".
@@clamthechef2389 I believe this "you're not a TRUE __" is called the No True Scotsman Fallacy because at this point, is anyone a true anything? You would have to define what a true __ is and why the definition you give is the best definition, which very few do, and it's usually just met with "I disagree with what a true __ is" anyway, so yeah, the whole "argument" is just a waste of time spent being salty
@@clamthechef2389 "What gives a person the right to gatekeep other people" Time committed to and their want to keep a franchise alive and healthy. If a franchise is based on stuff X, and new people want stuff Y, and want franchise to drop stuff X to cater to stuff Y -- then... they aren't a true fan of the franchise. Too much gatekeeping is toxic, but so is 0 gatekeeping.
that "what makes a fan" is probably the one part i disagree with Arlo on.
@@dragar0th that does make sense. There does need to be order and stability in order to keep the franchise good, while weeding out any of the small bad eggs.
Which is why I refer to myself as a Long-Time or Casual Fan than being labeled as a "True/Real" Fan of anything. Apparently I'm supposed to believe someone calling themselves a Real/True Fan is opposed to Aggressively Disliking and/or Liking a certain Media from a beloved Franchise where you have to Agree with that said person which I find to be ASININE if you ask me.
You can FEEL the frustration in this one. I think Arlo needs a hug :(
I belly-laughed at the end when Arlo said "nothing will compare to the storm when the review drops...". The silent gaze off to the side was just too funny. I really hope people can calm down and listen objectively to your opinion for both sides of the argument. And also I'm really looking forward to the upcoming Origami Review. Just finished my own review and I'm excited to compare my opinion with whatever your opinion may be!
Petey’s life *depends* on competitive gaming. What a soldier, save him from perishing.
Just played thousand year door after your recommendation a while back. Absolutely loved it. Thank you, now I want to play the original and super paper mario
on the rare chance you already dont know, be aware that super plays VERY differently from the first 2. It still has plenty of good things in it, most notably the story, but if you go in expecting another RPG you might come out feeling burned. In reality, it is an RPG story in a puzzle platformer game.
As someone who has played ttyd I don’t get how people like it better then origami king. origami king has much better game design in my eyes.
@@iecd461 You're gonna spam this everywhere huh?
WaterStone yea because literally no one says why they think ttyd is better I played it and it was horrible. It feels like everyone’s in on a joke pretending that ttyd is a good game lol
@@iecd461 So you're saying TTYD is a bad game? I don't see how. It's probably the most aged well Gamecube game to be honest.
It's a game with tons of content pack into it. Each chapter feels like their own mini story lol Like a fighting tournament, riding a train, and traveling a pirate island.
I think TTYD is better than TOK mainly because TOK bored me with too many generic toads. Not gonna lie, I felt like I was about to throw up after seeing too many of them that I needed to take a break from playing it. Same with Color Splash spamming Toads and ShyGuys everywhere.
The battle system in TOK isn't that fun. It just sorta exist. I wouldn't consider doing the rotating puzzle "fun". Just "something that gets in the way after awhile". Not to mention I rarely like doing the optional fights. Only the non optional fights were fun and the boss fights. I didn't like the battle system that much otherwise. Lack of attack variety also didn't help. You only have two "strategies" Jump and Hammer lol.
TTYD has flaws like backtracking and rng in battle system but it makes up for it with funny writing, individual chapters with their own mini plot. I mean, unless you could point me to another game where you do a large fighting tournament in the middle of the game while also having your identity being stolen from a psychotic ghost in the same game. If there is one, let me know!
Overall, TTYD has more "wow factor" for me compare to TOK. Where as TOK, I feel mostly plays it safe compare to TTYD at least. It has its moments like Bobby and etc. It's my favorite in the sticker star series, but I prefer TTYD.
That splatoon analogy was very well thought out.
To tell the truth if they just changed the name of Paper Mario when Tanabe took over it wouldn't been an issue, because like Teen Titans, I don't think it's reasonable to compare the originals to Go!, seeing they have both different story styles and audiences.
The fact that Tanabe said the series ORIGINALLY is all about the paper, means he fundamentally misses the point why the original game was made. And if you remove a fundemental the blocks on top will already be flawed to those who have the same fundamental belief as the original games.
Think about it: if they kept the WarioLand name for the WarioWare games, which has a different gameplay and more focused on select characters than an explorative world typically with only Wario, I wonder what the conversation would be.
its a wonder why people havent broken to his house and throw stuff at him yet for all the horrible things he's done. one day we'll look back at this man and say ; "f**k him".
@k ? well not getting fired that harsh and possible ruin his life. Especially how hiring works there
I can compare that this video to how the RWBY Fanbase acts and feels.
@@ericwijaya2119 worse than hitler
Anhilo And Stalin
In my company, we once received a big name gaming company as a client for a Marketing & Positioning strategy. Initially, I was excited to work at something in an industry I really like. We found the audience to be the most divisive and critical group of people we've ever dealt with, and we've worked in the music and fashion industry. We no longer work with any client in that industry, people are just so passionate about gaming that every unaimed messaging feels like a personal attack.
I played the new paper mario sorta liked it and never played any other, but Splatoon is my favourite Nintendo game and that example actually made me sick to my stomach
FYI you can be supportive AND criticize what youre supporting. its not a dichotomy. i wish you wouldnt perpetuate this idea that you cant like something if you criticize it
and just cause you enjoy something doesnt mean it couldntve been better. also most people dont know how to argue. 'fans' arent so much 'toxic' as they are ignorant
Yeah, just look at Arlo himself. He's all about Nintendo from the moment he started out here, and even he's critical of the company at times (*cough* Switch Online *cough*)
Same with Sonic. Right now I'm being told off for liking forces and supporting the split timeline on the sonic fandom.
Stuff sucks man.
I really didn't like Forces, but I think its still bullshit to attack someone for liking it since **gasp** different people with different personalities have different tastes.
I like Forces if viewed as a single game. If viewed as a franchise, the story is pretty terrible.
Me: I’m gonna go to sleep now
(Arlo Uploads a new video)
Me: Nevermind. This is more important
Couldn't be closer to the truth.
You can still listen to it while sleeping
This is really a Twitter problem, not just Paper Mario. Nearly any media that gets a controversial reboot or sequel has the same problem. (Star wars sequels, Legend of Korra etc.) The site is filled with social warriors, determined to force everyone into their beliefs by belittling their opponents. It makes Twitter a horrible place for discourse, especially political discourse. If you want to discuss Paper Mario, go somewhere else. No site is perfect, but message boards and subreddits are better places to have discussions on this stuff.
Twitter is the worst place to have an opinion.
Reddit sucks too though. Everyone is really mean on reddit...
RUclips is pretty bad to.
Nah reddit is trash too. r/papermario is just shitty low effort memes that belittle people with different opinions.
Every Mario fans is like this. they force people to like every Mario game, including the terrible new Paper Mario games like Sticker Star and Origami King.
"You're blinded by nostalgia" is such a cop out argument, how about you criticise what I've actually put forward rather than disregarding my opinion entirely
Depends on how you use it. I think its a good argument once, like you can't enjoy something new if you keep comparing it to its previous entries. But yeah, you can't just keep saying that its a scapegoat.
God, I hate that argument. It is so cowardly.
What if someone is actually blinded by nostalgia?
@@granthamlin8126 Then call them out. But nostalgia or not TTYD is better. And I saw this as someone who only recently played the game.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Oh look, the exact type of person this video is talking about.
Anime, my boy, rein it in. I wasn't making a case for any game.
This video aged like a fine wine after the Steve in Smash reveal, and everyone's doing the EXACT SAME THING
Videos don't age. People do. So your whole comment is wrong.
@@mep6302 Huh?
The Smash community has been like this for years. This is nothing new.
@@mep6302 Wrong. Time is relative.
@@mep6302
Technically, videos do age. That's why there's a timestamp for when it was uploaded.
I hate the nostalgia argument. Trying to completely disregard an argument with “oh, you only played it when you were a kid, you need to take off the nostalgia goggles.”. I revisted TTYD recently, and it’s as good as it was 4 years ago. I first played Sonic Adventure, a game notorious for being associated with being nostalgia blind, one year ago, and I will defend that game to the grave. No nostalgia goggles on.
I also hate the whataboutism of newer fans. Pointing fingers at the other side to boost their own. “Well, the original formula wasn’t perfect. TTYD had a bunch of backtracking, so it’s good that it changed.” The backtracking doesn’t make it a bad game, but it could’ve still been improved on without abandoning the formula. Just look at Bug Fables.
I'm glad Bug Fables exist just so I could prove to these toxic TOK defenders that you COULD still expand on the old formula while also trying something new.
I hate the "They did all they could do with TTYD" "So you want them to keep doing the same thing over and over again?" arguments.
It's kinda infuriating to be honest.
" you only like ttyd because you played it once in 2004 and never let it go."
it's like they think people only play a game once and never touch it again.
TTYD is overrated and most fans are pretty toxic.
Bug Fables is awesome, seriously deserves more fame
@@TinyGuy97 I know a lot of people disagree with me but that’s also how I feel about botw.
the same thing is happening on animal crossing twitter. someone tweets "I love playing ac everyday" and suddenly theres a billion tweets saying "wow imagine playing an empty boring game everyday couldn't be me."
and on the other end of the spectrum, i had someone yell at me the other day for saying i'm experiencing burn out and insult me for it
Tendo64 yeah it’s crazy there. I see both sides. it’s annoying when either side get annoyed with the other for stating their opinion lol. my username is gyroidd if you wanna be friends lol
Have we come to a point where if people don't like something 100% then they are "toxic"?
The internet and Twitter have ruined us by sensitizing us to a point where some people need virtual echo chambers and safe spaces in order to block out the dissenting opinions of other people.
They’re all new fans. Just wait until they find out about wild world and city folk
sometimes ill go somewhere n comment that pocket camp is more fun than new horizons (it is to me) and watch the replies declare war
👁👄👁
That splatoon analogy made a whole lot of sense. Tbh, I felt the exact same way during the whole Pokemon debates. While I did enjoy Pokemon Shield for what it was trying to do, there were also a lot of things wrong with it that I also agree should be taken care of.
Same, man. Apparently if we try to still be open about having fun with a game that's heavily criticized while also being open to criticizing it, we just get get incinerated by both sides of the conflict.
I found a lot of things to like in Pokémon Sword and Shield, although I'm the first one to say that more development time should have been taken to make the game's content less underwhelming.
I also actually tried playing Sticker Star too, but I just grew so tired of it that I dropped it during the final boss and never felt like playing it again. Color Splash and Origami King would probably carry my attention all the way through with charm and humor alone, but Sticker Star soured my experience so much I just don't feel like spending money on the series anymore.
Yet I'm sure some hardcore critics would still call me a shill for entertaining the idea of trying out the game in the first place and for not calling out the sequels despite the fact that I don't feel like getting angry over games I haven't played.
I'll keep listening to your Paper Mario chats regardless and I'll respect yours and any other person's opinions. Love the original trilogy, love the modern trilogy, hate the originals, hate the moderns, that's okay. I just like listening to Paper Mario stuff.
Hugs for Arlo?
Stuff like this can wear on a person, I wish more people were open-minded.
I believe Arlo is a genuinely very good person who clearly feels a mental impact from online criticism. I get it. I feel for anyone in that space - I could not mentally do it, given my severe depression.
But Arlo created this. He has half a million subscribers and for years has gained a reputation for being the Paper Mario guy. For better or worse. I’m glad the early ones mean so much to him and his passion is part of the charm. But he furthers this dialogue on this series more than anyone else.
I feel bad again that he feels weight of comments online. But it’s like throwing stones at a brick house. He leads the dialogue in the community and is someone people look to. And he always harps on this stuff. And he says because he’s civil that he’s a victim and blameless of furthering toxicity. Whether he knows it or not, he’s complicit to at least some degree. It doesn’t solely ride on him and there’s tons of people who take stuff like this and run to the most extreme of extremes. He’s not doing that and that’s not his intention. But by positing, months after the game has come out and met with general positive reviews...he’s only reigniting dialogue we don’t need to have for 3-4 years when the next game comes out.
Paper Mario is what it is. People can reminisce but there’s a decade of releases now defining the series. There’s a lot of nostalgia with TTYD. So I get it. But this needs to stop. I don’t feel bad when he keeps fanning the flames and hides behind the guise of being civil and well-spoken. Nobody deserves mental impacts of online negativity, all I’m saying is he misused the platform he has. If the point of this is to just comment on the community, he should at least own up to being a major facilitator in the discussion. But posts like this wear everyone just wants to give hugs and feel bad for him also forget part of his reputation is of his own doing. This is constant. And he’s a very good do to which I respect. But, this video contributes to the toxicity more than it doesn’t.
@@64jayr So what should he do? He clearly feels strongly about this subject, so asking him to stay quiet seems unreasonable.
Really, no. He started the discourse, he should own up to it like an adult
@@jacketofdiamonds he should maybe not bash the new games for just existing as action adventure games? Constantly talking about it and taking it way too seriously? Just a thought
@@Mqstodon He didn't bash them "for just existing." That is literally what this video is about. He has some genuine problems with design choices they made. I'd refer back to the Splatoon metaphor he made in the video, but from your comment I'm unsure you actually watched it.
Yo, I really enjoyed this video. It's refreshing to hear everything laid out bare, no ifs ands or buts about it, and to hear just, such an earnest, raw monologue about this.
I know it probably wasn't your intention when you were making this video, but some parts of it actually reminded me about how me and other people sometimes get on your case about Kirby. I remember before your Star Allies review I and a lot of other people took issue with the fact that you seemed to be really dismissive of the Kirby series as a whole, and sometimes even being a little snide about the amount of attention Kirby got compared to other big name IPs, but the backlash was too much, and I hate that it feels like we scared you away from the series.
I know you were disappointed by Star Allies, but if you ever get the chance to play Return to Dreamland on Wii, or Triple Deluxe or Planet Robobot on 3DS, I implore you: Give Kirby another chance. Discover the games that we were hoping Star Allies would live up to. I think Kirby's Return to Dreamland is on the WiiU eShop-- that would be my recommendation 👍
Imagine having Star Allies as your favourite Kirby game.
After seeing so many posts on how it's objectively bad/not as good as the other modern entries/the worst Kirby game ever made, I'm feeling a lot like a modern Paper Mario fan.
@@bluekirby_64 ignore the people who say it's straight up bad, bc they're wrong. But it did suffer a lot in the level design, pacing and balancing from focusing so hard on the allies mechanic. Also, the main story is really short, and while Heroes in Another Dimension extends the playtime significantly and provides a lot of the challenge that was missing from the main game, it's aesthetic variety leaves a lot to be desired.
Definitely not the worst Kirby game, and not _bad,_ but it has a lot of missed potential.
yeeeaaaah these “arguments” are really why i stay away from fandoms in general. i prefer to just discuss what i like within my friendgroup only. i try to venture out on the internet, and regret it Every Time- (not just the the papermario peeps, but “fans” of things in general are RABID) P.S. i like origami king loool
Prepare to be attaked.
Darth Vidar Blomstedt haha IM READY
I love the nostalgia blind argument since I actually played TTYD after Origami King and yeah, that game provides a fond experience Origami King just refuses you.
Also I'm not on Twitter but I wonder if it's still anywhere as bad as it was 2 years ago.