The Science of Gender Dysphoria (with NOAHFINNCE) | Sci Guys Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Sci Guys is 3 years old & our patrons chose Gender Dysphoria as the topic for this anniversary episode! NoahFinnce joins us to give his perspective on this as we discuss how gender dysphoria can affect trans (and sometimes cis) people!
Check out Noah’s music: open.spotify.com/album/41d02Z...
The videos mentioned:
Is Sex Binary: • Is Biological Sex Bina...
The Science of Gender: • The Science of Gender ...
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References & Further Reading
Gender Dysphoria
www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-...
www.britannica.com/science/ge...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NB...
www.psychiatry.org/psychiatri...
www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-...
gic.nhs.uk/info-support/gende...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
History of Gender Dysphoria
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22844...
www.psychologytoday.com/gb/bl...
Cause of Gender Dysphoria
www.sciencedaily.com/releases...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Male vs Female Brains
stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spri....
www.nature.com/articles/d4158...
scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewc...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
UK Gender Dysphoria Treatment Protocol
www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/defaul...
www.gendergp.com/wp-content/u...
www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-...
Sex
dictionary.apa.org/sex-charac...
Detransition
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
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@notcorry / @jampkin / @lukecutforth
When did you start watching Sci Guys?
A few weeks ago. (been binging though, so I have a lot of old episodes fresh in my mind)
Some months ago, I discovered you guys through Noah's channel
Some months ago.
I was listening to a ep on youtube but then took some weeks to actualy listen to more episodes.
In early 2020, the Stanford prison experiment was my first episode
In 2020 during lockdown.
"obviously trans people exist- we've brought one!" gives the vibes of "now kids, what have you brought for show and tell?"
also a blue peter "here's one we made earlier!"
@@saoirse2963nope, that's just a very gross kink. Please don't go around talking about it.
@@saoirse2963yes Minecraft.
@@saoirse2963 what are you hoping to accomplish here?
The thing is that not only do cis people have zero barriers to modify their bodies as they please compared to trans people who have TONS, but that the barriers imposed to trans people are to protect cis people from making “a wrong choice”.
@@abcxyz2927 terfy friend, I think what they mean is like, a cis woman can usually get a breast augmentations? or similar simply by paying for it instead of having to pay for it, get 3+ drs notes for it, and spend several years waiting for it after they first asked for it. they might still regret it or have side effects - but no one's really trying to make it harder for cis women to get breast augmentations
The only time there’s any barriers for trans surgeries is when they take place on the NHS. Any kind of cosmetic surgery on the nhs involves long waiting times and countless consultations to conclude whether you’re even eligible.
Very rich for you to tell someone else to “MYOB” when you yourself seem incapable. Since the concept of trans people bothers you so much (to the point that it has you disregarding science & medical advice) perhaps you should “MYOB” and let trans people live their lives. :)
i get the point but cis people also have plenty of barriers, particularly women looking for a hysterectomy are often denied them
@alexander’s reading This isn’t exactly “cis people” though, is it? It’s specifically cis women - and the barriers likely have more to do with them being woman than they do with them being cis, as there are not really the same barriers for cis men. Of course a woman looking for a hysterectomy would necessarily have to be cis (or intersex), but that’s about where the importance of being cis ends
Concerning the "you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans" thing, I think it's interesting to factor in gender euphoria as well: like, what if being called a girl doesn't make you feel awful per se, but being called a boy makes you feel way more right and amazing? Or you don't hate your boobs that much but the feeling of a flat chest makes you feel more like yourself? We often measure transness by suffering, but I think we should also be able to transition just because it feels better or more right, and not only if we feel like being in our assigned gender is going to literally kill us y'know
This! I have a trans woman friend who found out that she's a woman through gender euphoria. She didn't hate her life as a man, but she just became so much happier and more confident presenting, identifying and being addressed as a woman. And why shouldn't she? It's such a significant difference to her happiness, so why the heck not?
Yes this! Especially for non binary identities where there is not one traditional path to transition!
I never thought of it that way, good point
i think this comes from the incorrect notion that dysphoria = hating yourself and your body. you don’t have to hate yourself to feel dysphoria. as long as you feel somewhat less comfortable than normal in your born sex and would rather be a different sex, THAT’S dysphoria
Dysphoria isn't suffering, if people arpund you are nice it can be barely tiggling
Corry: “Yeah we’ve dabbled in dysphoria.”
Noah: 👁👄👁
the criteria reminds me of a contrapoints quote: "trans people are expected to say 'when I was 5 I loved playing with my moms high heels' or else say nothing at all." it condenses everything down into a stereotype
For the longest time, that stereotype made me convince myself out of the possibility that I could be trans
Love Contrapoints, and good point. But also consider this... I think cis people are missing the important factor: WHY we do or don't engage in whichever gendered activity.
For the shoes, some people want to be like mom when they grow up and some just think it's fun goofing off. I played with both sets of toys, but my feelings between the two were very different.
If you had asked me, I would have said that the girl stuff makes me uncomfortable and I don't like being associated with girly girls, but if the game was fun then I could handle the discomfort. And boy's stuff I coveted dearly because I always saw boys playing with them on the tv and that made me upset unless I also had the toy, not that I thought boy's toys were somehow better, but because I desperately wanted to participate in.... something. I didn't have words for it at the time.
Based on that, what gender do you think I am? Ignore my username, that could be my chosen name or my dead name, no cheating
I think if adults asked for what the kid was thinking when they participated in these things, instead of just checking off gender performance boxes, it would add the nuance needed to really understand kids' genders. Oh, but treating your kid like an individual and caring about their personal experiences and listening without correcting. Those are tough for puritan societies. But it CAN be done.
Having an informed consent clinic literally saved my life. To be honest, even for surgery, putting all the power over whether I can access treatment into the hands of my therapists has made therapy pretty useless for actually improving my mental health. The power dynamic is just too extreme. Here is this person I’m supposed to open up to and trust, but they are also judge and jury over whether I can move on with my life.
Also I hope this didn’t read as angry at the video somehow. I really enjoyed this episode
100% agree. I decided to start hormones when I was the only other option was to quit. They saved my life. I don't think I could have survived another year without them.
Gender euphoria is much easier to measure and understand as a marker for trans ppl than trying to figure dysphoria out. Imagine if we just asked kids how happy they felt when they were able to live as themselves 🤷🏽♂️ pathology just wants transness to be a terrible infliction so narratives of dysphoria fit the medical model as something to be 'treated' - signed me Jack dr of stuff :)
I feel like both can be true, like my dysphoria was so bad I probably wouldn't be alive rn if I hadn't have gotten surgery, it was horrible and I could barely bring myself to leave the house for years. But also, once that dysphoria was alleviated I didn't stop being trans because I was no longer suffering
Edit- (Not that I think you have to have dysphoria to be trans, but I only ever experienced gender euphoria like twice. So not the best measure for everyone)
That is very true. Another factor is that a lot of trans people are just so used to the dysphoria that they simply don't notice. I didn't notice the fact that since the start of puberty, I thought I was ugly - until I looked masc and suddenly felt beautiful
@@oivenmann9977 I was exactly the same! If you'd asked me 6 years ago if I had dysphoria I would have categorically told you I didn't. I just had a vague and undefinable sense that there was something fundamentally wrong with me. That I never fit in properly anywhere and that I was in some way a fraud. But that's how I'd felt for as long as I could remember, so I just assumed that was just because I was weird. And whenever I was alone, or with good friends, I could pretend it wasn't there. It was only when I started experimenting with presenting more fem after experiencing some axidental moments of gender euphoria that I realised how painful it was going back to presenting masc again. It was quite a revalation to realise that feeling like a discusting amungus walking around in a stolen human skin wasn't a necessary part of life 😂
I kind of don't experience gender euphoria? Like I am rarely ever dysphoric at this point in my transition so the good days are just like regular good days nothing special about them?
I feel like, when you're used to dysphoria and have had that feeling for a very long time, you might start feeling numb to it and, if you have never had gender euphoria, and thus no way of making a comparison, you might get used to feeling miserable all the time. It's like when you've been hungry for so long that it no longer feels like having the need to eat. Or like eating bad food all the time and not realising how bad it is until you eat a delicious meal at the restaurant. Then, the first time you start expressing yourself how you really want, you realise how awkward, uncomfortable, miserable, just not yourself you've been until that moment, but maybe you didn't think you could feel differently. This was definitely my case. I thought that hating my appearance was normal, and so it no longer registered anymore.
When I was questioning my gender identity, I found myself desperately searching for any signs or symptoms of gender dysphoria. Due to internalized transmedicalism, I thought I needed to prove I had dysphoria to count as trans. I knew I had depression, and assumed anything that felt amiss in my life was due to that. Yet the depression seemed to be fighting me during the whole process, like it was trying to prevent me from finding out. It got to the point where it was either let the depression win, or accept my trans identity.
Ironically, it wasn't until after I came out to myself that I was able to look back on my life and see the signs of gender dysphoria were everywhere. The way it primarily manifested-- was the depression itself. It's the most common misdiagnosis or correlation with gender dysphoria, and for me, it was trying to keep me from realizing who I was all along. Since then, the depression has almost completely lifted. In other words, instead of dysphoria accompanying my trans identity, it's like the two were opposing forces, pulling me in different directions. I was depressed because I didn't know I was trans.
I have had the same experience
Appreciate your reflections! As someone who sees themselves as a non-binary (finally figured it out last year after years of trying to communicate 'something' that I couldn't quite express in words but rather gradually discovered within myself), I relate strongly to what you said. Some of my earliest memories involve me playing with girls, being one of the girls, whereas peer pressure & bullying soon had me repressing that identity for years to come. I feel like it took me a long time to develop my public masculine persona (almost a decade) which I later tried to play up by dabbling in hypermasculinity & even toxic masculinity until I eventually realised that wasn't who I was but rather a role I tried to put on. It took me a lifetime until this point to liberate the real me but the need was always there, when I was depressing that need it came out in negative ways (which is why I often view repression as one of the most dangerous things a person has to go through, deep repression of one's identity can lead a person down a very dark path). I feel like the real me has, over time, settled somewhere between a man & a woman (slightly more on the feminine side but with certain elements of my biological masculine self that I can appreciate), I feel at home on that bridge between the two but I think the masculine part of that had to develop forcefully over time to become natural. I feel like my dysphoria manifested itself over time once I dropped the role I felt like acting to the world around me, but I do remember that masculine role being very heavy to carry. It's weird how these memories & identity issues go (mine stem from my childhood & definitely involve parental dynamics as well), I've been healing my inner child very deeply as of late & have found it fascinating how I have some veeery strong, foundational memories of identity associated with the band t.A.T.u. which I've also been rediscovering almost 20 years later, which probably explains why I relate very deeply to some lesbians who are often willing to explore the masculine side of themselves while often being rooted in the feminine & being attracted to women. Crazy how these things never go away, they just manifest themselves in positive or negative ways depending on whether we're allowed to express them healthily or whether we're forced to repress them.
Reasons I think the sci guys would go to jail :
- Jamp: he either forgot to pay for a Snickers in the gas station or he went to pet a stranger's dog and that stranger was a dramatic Karen that called the police
- Luke: accidentally started a cult that enables emotional abuse and mental distress on babies for science experiments or he accidentally built a radioactive nuclear weapon
- Corry: cannibalism................or he threw a hot dog at a bigot
This escalated quickly.
very accurate
My brother would also throw a hot dog at a bigot!
But I'd be arrested too, for supplying the hot dog and for promptly buying him another one to actually eat after he threw the first one.
My experience in witness a flaw in a transphob’s theory that they can identify a cis person from a trans person is… while I do identify as non-binary.. I am afab and have PCOS that leads to a good amount of facial hair and fat distribution that is very much a male pattern. In addition to choosing to have short hair and masculine clothes. My point is.. ignorant of the face that someone who has a vagina and is afab can naturally have these features 🙄🤦♂️
Wow my grammar sucked let’s try that again…
My experience in witnessing the flaw in a transphob’s theory **that they can identify a cis person from a trans person** is this:
while I do identify as non-binary.. I am afab and have PCOS that leads to a good amount of facial hair and fat distribution that is very much a male pattern. I also chose to have short hair and masculine clothes. My point is.. I’m seen as a man 99% of the time and their ignorance is clear when they don’t understand that someone who was born with a vagina can naturally have hair on their face or other male pattern features🙄🤦♂️
The S in "PCOS" stands for syndrome right? So its an illness right? Well there you have the answer...
I've had people try to guess at my gender my whole life. The thing I've discovered is that most people just go with "long hair woman. Short hair man", so I can change which they pick just by how I brush my hair. And more than once had parents getting very upset because they brought up their kids with "long hair woman, short hair man", then I come along and blow that out the water!
People really are not very good at it because humans really aren't a very dimorphic species.
Only women get PCOS thou and the hormones cause damage in a female system. Hence why the fat distribution - insulin resistance. Also 5x chance of heart attack. The symptoms are outside the bell curve of "normal" at levels of women.
Yea
It really hit me when Noah brought up the there are women who feel dysphoric about their breast, but are not trans. I am a cis women and I have thought about breast reduction a lot because having large breast doesn’t feel right for me and my body.
I got a breast eduction at age 17 for this very reason, and also because I was so sick of how overly sexualized I'd been for my whole adolescence purely because I had bigger breasts. But for some reason when a cis girl gets government subsidized plastic surgery on her chest to feel more comfortable in her body and the world it's fine- it's only mutilation when the girl is trans 🙄
@@harlottebronte there is a considerable difference between reducing the fat in your chest and removing your breasts entirely though
@@user-uh5fi8jy5h oh, bEcaUsE tHeY sErvE a PurPoSe? bEcaUsE tHeY'rE neEdeD tO fEeD bAbiEs?
Honestly dude, if a person has lobbed their bitties off, clearly they don't want to get pregnant. And even if they do, they most likely have found themselves a nice trans girl to help them out in that endeavour.
I, myself, would love the opportunity to have a child with a trans woman, and if I could chop my bitties off and she breastfeeds, I'd be cool with that. If I would have to chestfeed, then I'd just remind myself that, you know, cis men are capable of producing milk too.
just go to the gym and workout and they will shrink
Not only that but if you have small breasts then you aren't a "real woman"...it is really unfortunate the misogyny and how women are so objectified
Majority groups look at any minority and say “ you need to be protected from your own decisions.. and the best person to make those decisions for you is ME” 🙃
I'm in Texas, and used an informed consent clinic. 11 months on hormones and it's still going well.
I did not recognize myself having gender dysphoria until about 2 months into my hormone replacement therapy. Once I began seeing my body as a woman's body, I became very aware of the detachment I had from my body throughout my life.
It's so crazy to me to think that you might not realize this stuff because you've been so used to it your whole life.
Yeah when I got my GP to refer me to the gender clinic I just sent her a link to where I wanted her to refer me. And then I got to the appointment with that GP and the first thing she said was 'Well, so I googled it.'
She was nice enough to just refer me immediately without further questions but yeah she had absolutely no idea what she was doing.
@@abcxyz2927 Trans people are actually about 1 in 100 people. We're just hiding in plain sight. So I guess we just shouldn't care about things that affect 1% of the population? That's your solution? Alright then, that eliminates most ailments other than like... the flu or eczema.
I was actually very pleased with how that appointment went, she referred me with zero issues, and that's all I needed from her. I'm very happy with my GP in general, but yes I think it's very funny that her experience with this was limited to a single google search. It's not generally what people expect from doctors.
I guess I don't see the relationship between a shortage of GP's and whether or not those GP's get taught basic things about trans people in their decades-long education. Medically, it's just not as complicated as most other things they have to learn. The only trans-related thing GP's really need is to learn to read hormone levels for when trans people are discharged from the clinic, and that's just not that hard so it can't take that long to learn. Trans people who DIY do that by themselves all the time.
@@abcxyz2927 Lol those are the official stats from a US government survey mate. About 0.5% binary and 0.5% nonbinary, which adds up to 1%. If you haven't found any trans people in your life, that means they're hiding very well, because statistically speaking, you definitely know some, you just don't know who they are.
You blaming GP's leaving on trans people like me being... happy with them... that's really peak trans panic haha. That one is new to me. Lol can you imagine trans people's very existence near GP's driving them to finding a different career than the one they studied for for most of their lives? Like I step into a doctor's office and they all just run away screaming from the scary trans to go be waiters or something lol.
Go obsess about something that actually has an impact on your life rather than make a fool of yourself on obscure RUclips podcasts. Maybe donate to or volunteer for a covid relief fund? That way the time you put into complaining about this would actually amount to something.
"You have a PhD in Trans, right?" Jammidodger does! Follow up with Jammidodger!
We’ve had an episode with Jamie!
Gender EUphoria is a thing! My partner hardly gets gender dysphoria during their day-to-day masking as a cishet and more often gets gender euphoria when they get dressed up effeminately and "passes" as a woman.
yesss i'm non binary and the most dysphoria i feel is a brief icky feeling when someone calls me a woman... but then i will draw myself a beard in makeup and cry because it feels so right so like. maybe always measuring transness by how much you suffer is not the greatest
As a trans guy, I very, very much appreciate this episode.
(Also I can't recall when I first started listening, I just know that Sci Guys is a part of my weekly routine now!)
I was the patron who suggested it! (I knew other trans ppl would wanna see it too lol)
Jamp: "Just a general dislike of genitals"
Noah: "Haha, yeah I HATE---I'm not gonna say it actually."
Literally me every time a banger trans joke is available but I dont wanna out myself or strike my dysphoria nerve lmaoo
you guys should do a “the science of aromanticism” episode! i think that that would be very interesting :]
just in case you havent checked their channel recently, they put one out on that topic a month ago :)
Had this on full volume around my transphobic mom making dinner 💪💪💪
Hahahaha, nice 🤝
I think this is lowkey funny cause I suggested this vid as a patron so I could one day send it to my mum!!
👀 If I do that, I wouldn't hear the end of it.
When it comes to diagnostic criteria and medical access, I think it is so incredibly important to REALLY take responsibility for yourself and for counselors, doctors and parents to help you be responsible.
Not that I know every detransitioner personally, but the story to transition regret always seems to be like "Well tumblr told me I am trans so I did this" "Well the doctor said that I am trans so I did this" "I still identify as a woman, but getting bottom surgery was wrong, I just thought you HAD to have a vagina to be a woman"
SO many cases where people accepted the opinions and norms of others without really asking themselves what THEY really want and what consequences they can live with.
Being responsible is of course always important, but especially when you choose a path that obviously deviates from the norm.
When you are "normal" you can say to yourself "they are all doing this and most turn out fine, so I'll do the same"
But when you reject the normative role society imposed on you, that means you have to find your own path and can't just hope that someone else will take you to the right destination.
I think a lot of that comes from gatekeepy transmedicalist attitudes, both among trans communities and the medical systems. I was on the other side of that. I thought for a good while that I couldn't be trans because I didn't want bottom surgery, and because I couldn't be trans I also couldn't have HRT. So I identified as a cross dresser for quite a while. It was watching videos by Contrapoints debunking transmed ideas and talking about nonbinary people, and then watching some other enby RUclipsrs she shouted out that let me realise that I could be "allowed" to transition in some ways without needing to do everything. You are right that people need to take as much responsibility as they can, but until you know some things are possible it can be hard to even imagine an alternative. I was turning 30 when I was stuck in that mindset, for teenagers being told by everyone around you that there is only one way to do things, and having either the implied or explicit threat that you will have all medical treatments and or your social support system taken away if you don't follow the script, then even contemplating "going your own way" can be an unachievable ask for many.
i agree with your points about personal responsibility for your own transition choices, and about really looking inside yourself to check it's what you want rather than what's a normative transition, but I don't see the connection you make from that to medical access and diagnostic criteria.
In my experience, the diagnostic criteria and counselors are exactly the people trying to shove you into a binary normative transition. One of my nonbinary friends got denied top surgery for 12 years by a gender clinic because they didn't want testosterone and wouldn't 'pick a side', boy or girl (they got it eventually). A different nonbinary friend got denied testosterone by that same clinic because they wanted to be pregnant some day, because apparently you're not allowed to be transmasc and pregnant according to the gender clinic.
I'm personally very scared I'll be denied because I don't want to cut off my long hair, and still want top surgery. On top of that, I don't want to keep my nips, and this gender clinic that I have to go considers that weird and alien and doesn't allow that type of top surgery, despite it being a less risky surgery overall.
So yeah personal responsibility and bodily autonomy all the way, but we're fighting AGAINST gender clinics in order to access that, they're not helping us get it.
I find the fact about autism and gender dysphoria so interesting, and I wonder whether it's to do with being more honest than the general population and not being fully able to adhere to social rules etc (not all autistic people are the same though obviously just in general that seems to be a common sign)? I could be completely wrong though, it just made me think about how me and my friend differ in our experiences with being trans guys (I'm autistic, he isn't). I remember being so open about being a boy when I was a kid, I'd have meltdowns over not being allowed the haircut or clothes I wanted, whereas my friend said he used to try so hard to be 'girly' as a kid to fit in. I came out when I was 14 but was dismissed and just spiraled into depression (came out again loads but eventually at 18 my parents accepted it, I don't hate them for it they were just very ignorant and from conservative backgrounds). Whereas my friend soldiered on until he was 21 and couldn't handle it anymore and cut his hair and came out etc. It's just so interesting to me how different yet similar our experiences were. Same with my friend who's a lesbian, she said she used to try so hard like manifesting a crush on a boy but it never worked, and she worked so hard to fit in at school etc, whereas I was just incapable of pretending to be someone I wasn't without showing my sadness while doing it. Obviously this is just anecdotal, I'm not saying this is why autism and gender dysphoria seem to be common. And also I met my friends at a LGBT group thing so only knew em after they came out.
Also I know TERFs use the argument that GD is common in autistics because we're just poor ickle children who can't possibly know our own identity but I think that's just rooted in ableism tbh lol, I have many problems due to being autistic but that doesn't mean I don't have my own brain and my own thoughts lol
im autistic too!! im an endby
You know - I never thought of that, but I think that makes a lot of sense. As a non-binary autistic person I can relate to that. My honesty has gotten me in so much trouble over the years, including being too open about myself. Also not being able to read people might play into this as well. I can't tell if someone is likely to accept me or not etc.
I just love Noah. He’s wonderful. I really enjoy when he’s on the show
Also, I think the first episode I watched was The Science of Gender
1:01:51 my grandma had to get written consent from my grandad and her male neighbor so she could get her hysterectomy at 39 for medical reasons. It’s mad to think that 50 years on people with wombs are still facing the same kinds of issues
That’s wild. Like way to not care about women and also the entirety of the LGBTQ + community. What country?
@@pokemonfanthings4444 right! The UK 🇬🇧
A big one on the NHS referrals, as in monumentally hugely big.
1. The process for a referral used to be incredibly long, convoluted, and effectively impossible to actually get a referral. GD is not a psychiatric issue, but the Gender Identity Clinics required 3 referrals, 2 from psychiatrists, before accepting a referral. So usually you'd need a referral from a GP to a psychiatrist, they would then have to refer on to 2 further psychiatrists. If you've ever tried to get a referral to just one, you will understand why this was done - it prevents anyone actually getting a referral. So for me, it took 6 years to get a psych referral, the psychiatrist was like "well there's some low level stuff going on here, but why are you here? You don't have a mental illness, and that's not a mental illness, I can't refer you to psychiatric assessment to not get a treatment, that's a waste of everyone's time, and no-one has time to waste". As a result, I spent over a decade trying to get a referral, and still didn't get past psychiatrist #1.
So you have basically all the trans people from back then who either went private, self medicated, or gave up on the NHS and lost all faith in the NHS. This is not the same as not wanting or not requiring treatment. This is "the NHS failed".
2. Because there was massive gatekeeping - they could keep the GICs very small. When that changed, and a GP could refer, we ended up with on one hand a flood of people who'd been trying to get a psych referral; and on the other people whose doctors refused to refer and still either referred to psych or flat out refused. Either way, they couldn't keep up and still can't. In some areas they have cut all provision, in some areas they have cut some provision, and in some they just have wait lists growing exponentially.
The end result is the same as #1. People don't trust the NHS, so go private, self med, or give up.
3. You've probably heard in the news that it's all fast and easy. It isn't. So you've got your referral. You've waited 5 to 20 years. You now have a first appointment. That appointment you fill out paperwork, and if you wear the wrong clothes, you risk being rejected for treatment.
Assuming you get a second appointment, that's 1-2 years later. They say "Are you trans?" you say "yes" they say "yeah but are you really? Prove it and come back in a couple of years".
Two more years on, you might get a referral to endocrinology.
At this point we're 7 to 23 years of waiting not including GP wrangling to get a referral before getting any treatment. Again, we're back to self med, private, or give up.
The numbers of referrals are only a fraction because just getting a referral is a challenge in itself. If you had to stare down the barrel of a 23+ year wait to get treatment, would you bother trying? I've had more than a few friends who we lost along the way because they couldn't face life knowing they had that to "look forward to". And still might be rejected for something as petty as not wearing makeup or not straightening their hair or being non binary.
Oh. And if you do go private or self med... the NHS GPs and GICs tend not to like it (multiple lawsuits are pending on this, see: the good law project). So you'd better have copies of the NHS rules (we're talking the fundamentals such as 'thou shalt not discriminate because someone has used a private service').
The NHS numbers for "desistance" have been long since debunked. Including *by the NHS*! Their own recorded rates are about 99.7% turn out to be trans 🤷🏼♀️
The NHS numbers come from studies that did things like "is a camp boy and might be gay" as trans.
I struggle with gender dysphoria (not diagnosed but I'm not going to call it "what i think is gender dysphoria") and I've only recently realised that my hatred of seeing my face, other people seeing it, and knowing other people can see it, is dysphoria. I've felt for months that I didn't hate how I looked, I've just hated that I looked like it, I've come to realise, its because I look like a girl. I've been able to separate who I am and who other people see me as and that has really helped with my dysphoria. I've tied my gender, sexuality, pronouns, and chosen name to who I am as a person. I've tied being straight, using she/her pronouns, and how I look to my birth name. So now when I'm feeling upset about being misgendered I can just remind myself that they're not talking about me, they're talking about who I used to be/my dead name. I still can barely stand being misgendered but, it helps.
Yea
I went through something similar with facial dysphoria, I would feel so unhappy with my face, even going as far to delete every selfie and picture I was in, off my phone. I remember discovering a thing called “mewing” (basically the position you rest your tongue in affects your jaw placement and there is a “correct” placement) looking back I really had no need to do it. But I just wanted a sharper, more defined facial structure and jawline. I thought it was because I wanted to be more attractive, but really it was because I had such a destain for how feminine my face was. Essentially I wanted more masculine facial features and didn’t even know it. I also really wanted to build up more muscle mass. I came out later that year as non binary initially, (Trans man now) and three years later it’s just amazing how the hell I didn’t piece it together sooner.
I used to jump when I saw myself in the mirror because how I mentally viewed myself was so different from how I looked. Full on, the long hair, the way my shirt rested on my chest, ect... it's really depressing to think about and was really hard to try to get over. Still have an issue with my chest, even with a binder. I think that was the worst distress I've ever felt before I changed hairstyle and wore baggier hoodies to hide it.
just started hormones and i needed this ep. thanks boys.
re detransition: sometimes people are just going to de transition and it doesn't even mean that transitioning was the "wrong" choice. and it'd be nice if both sides could stop acting like transition is irreversible damage... like some things aren't easily reversible and you might regret but that's just life...
@@abcxyz2927 it's exactly the same as any other surgery my terfy friend.
@@growingoaks if I cut my hair and then later grow it out was it objectively the wrong choice? no. if I have an abortion and then later chose to carry to term was it objectively the wrong choice? no. If I try to treat my depression with lexapro or similar but then later stop it was it objectively the wrong choice? no. and all of those obviously aren't quite the same but they're similar. esp since gender confirmation surgeries are oftentimes an attempt to treat gender dysphoria. and like basically everything changes your body irreversibly. see also the fluidity of identity. I'm too tired though to spend time educating you.
@@abcxyz2927 lol u really are a terf 🤣
Yeah, agreed. Have you watched Arthur Rockwell's video essay on detransition? I learned a lot from that one. He compared transition to marriage, like if you get divorced, that doesn't mean marriage was never the right choice and you never loved your spouse in the first place. It was the right decision at the time, and then it stopped being right. It's a big life decision and it can go wrong (and statistically marriage goes wrong much more often than transition), but well yeah that's just life.
And also, natural puberty is exactly as irreversible as transition, so if we really don't think kids can know what their gender is at that age, sounds like puberty blockers for everyone. (No I don't actually want that, would be useless for 99% of them obviously, but I would've personally benefited a lot from puberty blockers, and so would a lot of trans kids who are on eternal waiting lists right now.)
@@ryn2844 I have! I also quite like Shonalika's video on detransition, in particular they talk about some of the stuff surrounding transitioning/not transitioning as a non binary person. and yeah like, I don't thinks it's particularly helpful to talk about it as irreversible damage because you're right - cis puberty is just as irreversible and you wouldn't want to say that cis people are irreversibly damage or even that trans people who don't get to take puberty blockers or transition as teens are damaged... and it kind of implies that. like I'm not damaged because I'm visibly trans I'm just trans. I also think a lot of people could possibly benefit from like not seeing themselves as failed cis people but successful trans people.
Noah is a delight
I live in the US, and I was able to go through an informed consent program which was really helpful because I had already spent about 4 years on my own assessing my feelings about gender and dysphoria, and have been socially out/living as my gender for the past year or so
Would very much like to see an episode on the history gender identity disorder
I'm ABAB (Assigned Baby At Birth)
Please do a podcast about the history of gender dysphoria. My first video on your channel was "The Science of Being Transgender"
i find interesting when corry talks about the need for diagnostic criteria. in argentina and other countrys healthcare for trans people is given to anyone who recuests it, without any kind of medical diagnosis or therapy. The reason for this is that gender identity is a self perception thing (called autopercibido in spanish) so only you know your gender and what you need to do to live as your authentic self inmersed in society, no one can deny you the right to change your name, access hormones and/or surgery, etc. I feel like in places where being trans is pathologized so much, it not only stops many people who dont have access/time/money for health care, it takes away the autonomy to define you yourself who you believe you are, and what you need, making you (and your life) rely on someone else's understanding of what it means to be, or live as, a man/woman/non-binary person. It is not a necessity being diagnosed with a disorder in order to live your life and present the way u want to.
Re: informed consent clinics and the concern that they would lead people who shouldn’t transition to transition (sorry for the incoming long rant, I am super passionate about informed consent healthcare) -
The purpose of informed consent is to acknowledge that individual people (particularly adults in this case) are the authorities on their own experiences, not their doctors. Which is why, imo, informed consent is the *only* ethical model of healthcare for transgender adults.
We’ve seen it with the DSM 5. when doctors (who are almost always cis) are the ones setting the criteria for who gets to have gender-affirming healthcare, they come up with all kinds of garbage that has nothing to do with the actual lived experiences of trans people at all. This not only prevents trans people from accessing necessary care, but also doesn’t really solve the problem of transition regret (case in point - all the ridiculous gatekeeping of the NHS couldn’t keep Kira Bell from transitioning)
The informed consent model recognizes that the only person with authority to claim an identity is the person in question themselves. Informed consent positions doctors as guides, while any other treatment model positions them as gatekeepers. It’s *never* worked for us in the past to give them that power, and it won’t suddenly start to work at any point in the future.
Of course, if an individual is concerned about other factors at play, that individual is welcome to seek counseling and therapy before they start hormones. but I’ll reiterate my belief that that needs to be the patient’s call, not the doctors.
I say this as a person who had a non-conventional path to understanding my identity as an effeminate trans guy, and who would have likely been denied treatment if I were to undergo a full assessment. Going on testosterone both changed and saved my life, but I had to try it to know that. I didn’t know why I wanted to go on it, or what I was looking for, or even what my gender identity was. I just knew I needed to try it or I would never stop thinking about it.
There are a LOT of SCIENTISTS and DOCTORS, such as ME, who understand biologically and socially how complicated genetics are and that there aren't even just 2 biological sexes, let alone the social constructs of gender.
So there aren't 2 biological sexes? Which more are there?
@@ceshadow There's XO, in which there is only one X chromosome or functioning X chromosome called Turner syndrome, which present as female at birth based on genitalia but are intersex, XXY or XXXY in which the egg, sperm, or both retained the second sex chromosome during meiosis and presents typically with male genitalia but is technically intersex, androgen sensitivity syndrome as they mentioned which is an XY but presents typically as female at birth. Fragile X Syndrome where there is a problem with the X chrosome and can be in XX or XY but is typically seen in XY (because XX will have a second X chromosome and thus less severe symptoms). Those are some examples in which biological sex is not as simple as XX or XY. Then there are variations in how the genitals form in utero that can cause differently appearing or non-functional genitalia and/or sex organs.
This scares me that a LOT of SCIENTIST and DOCTORS believe that there are more than two biological genders in humans. All of the people born with too many or to few x or Y chromosomes or anything along that line are all still considered birth defects and are still either male or female.
@@masonguthrie1257 This is exactly how it is. It's either male or female. Stating that this means there are more than 2 biological sexes is wrong.
There are only two biological sexes. There are anomalies and defects but the vast majority is binary. Chromosomes alone do not determine sex.
ADAB (assigned doctor at birth)
Okay I haven't finished the video so sorry if this was discussed later, but something really interesting to do with speaking differently is Customer Service Voice! This causes voice dysphoria for a load of trans people but it's so automatic for AFAB people to raise their voice pitch when trying to be polite, like I'll raise my voice automatically and proceed to chastise myself because I hate how high my voice is.
Awesome video, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I especially like that you talk about the dark reality and poignant issues all the while wearing cheerful birthday hats. Happy Anniversary!
Hard nope on "some level of gatekeeping is beneficial." Trans guy here. I went through medical transition under an informed consent model and it was wonderful. The key to this is "informed." I worked with an oncologist who went through what gender dysphoria was, the likely results of testosterone, the risks involved. This took three appointments. I never needed to *prove* that I had gender dysphoria. Rather I had to prove that I understood what it was along with the risks and likely results of testosterone. Similar for top surgery. Adults in no other medical situation are required to be kept safe from themselves. This type of model saves lives. Minors should have more safeguards but nothing like what exists in most places. Trans adults are being infantalised and seen as incapable of making informed decisions and it's flat out discrimination.
think you mean "endocrinologist" not "Oncologist" (onco's work with cancer patients)
@@frilly35 Whoops. Exactly. I suck with medical stuff. lol Shit, I've probably made that mistake a thousand times and not noticed.
I’ve also utilized informed consent with the minor caveat that is my insurance company. Saved my life a hundred times over. I wish that it was the norm instead of all of these hoops that many trans people have to jump through. It makes me so angry that we’re treated like we don’t know what’s going on.
Nope we need gatekeeping
@@notfunny1410 Love this. 4 words to remove the rights of people choosing how to deal with their own bodies. No explanation, no personal experience. Just flat out telling other people how to live their lives.
I'm pretty sure the first Sci Guys video I watched was the one on Aphantasia from about two years ago, then I went on to see whichever ones Noah was in and branched out to other topics I found interesting
i love the "we're no diagnosis go to a doctor" and 2min later "the waiting lists..."
Been watching for about a year or so. Very interesting topics and entertaining crew. I'm a fan👍
Extremely honoured to have my username pronounced weirdly on air. Thanks Luke
I don't know why but I visually read the thumbnail as "Yay, Noah is dysphoric 🥳."
21:49 sometimes it's just that the brain of the person with the condition in question actually _needs_ that substance more. For example, in the case of people with schizophrenia, nicotine interacts with acetylcholine receptors which are actually the ones that work differently for them. So the nicotine ends up being a therapeutic drug for them more than for non-schizophrenic people
In the US, you can go down to an informed consent clinic and say "Hi, these hormones are gross and bad and I'd like the other ones please." And they'll say "You might get boobs or body hair, k?" Then they give you hormones. It's awesome
Oh heck, Noah talks about informed concent. Informed concert clinics do screen for past trauma, coercion and a couple other things. I don't think that making trans people wait years to get hormones after deciding they want them is in any way commendable. It's not a decision we make lightly. I don't understand why a cis person gets to decide if a person is gender nonconforming enough to get the treatment they want.
This is my first time watching Sci Guys today . RUclips recommended this vid after I’ve been watching Noah Finnce. I’m enjoying it so far. Haven’t seen Luke Cutforth for years so it’s cool to see him. 🙂
an episode about intersexuality would be interesting if you havent made one already!
This was both fun and interesting to watch. I never have actually heard a discussion on about trans people with and actual trans person present.
Congrats on 3 years. Great show guys. Very interesting, informative and inclusive.
Hearing about the gender clinics is giving me many thoughts about trans care in the USA and my experience with the informed consent model. I really wish I had access to a Gender Clinic because it sounds like there is more ability to receive support from a centralized clinic. What I've found in the informed consent model is not as much an issue in wait times, but rather a difficulty finding knowledgeable helpers. It took me 3 years to get to an Endocrinologist and have somebody knowledgeable help me, but then again that also has a lot to do with unsteady medical access throughout college for insurance based reasons. I'm not sure how I'd feel different if I were to have a steady general practitioner and better access to health care coverage.
Sadly its very hit and miss over in the UK and I think at least over here most would rather to have the US more permissive system.
Every single step of the process is gatekept. Your GP can just outright refuse to refer you or just so happen to magically lost the paperwork every single time. You have to present hyper femme 1950s perfect housewife or hyper toxic masculine. Enjoying having untoward questions towards any form of mental health issues no matter how small they might be including trying to create them with ridiculous questions on your sexual fantasies. Then even if you get through it all and get a prescription your still back to needing your GP to go through with it and do the relevant blood tests etc which they can just refuse again even once you've started treatment at great risk to your health.
This is before any surgical procedures and needing multiple psychological assessments similar to the above.
Add in the wait times that for some places are heading towards decades (I think the longest is currently 7 or 8 years).
If you do go private you've still either got to deal with the GP issues even if you happen to be able to find and afford a private gp willing to consider for a moment.
I believe the only "full service" private route is both not accepting any new patients right now but also one of the most expensive options possible and you often well end up locked in with them as others wont take you on once with one clinic.
I would love an episode on the history of genders in different cultures around the world. I couldn't find much on it myself.
I’m so glad I found this podcast. A lot of these videos are like thoughts I’ve had myself and conversations I’d like to have with other people.
The reason why breast augmentation should be necessary is that trans women tend to have broader chests and grow smaller breasts. Breast augmentation allows them to have a more proportional body.
I started watching you guys about 2 years ago and actually found you guys through Noah and have been watching you guys ever since
Because of the medicalisation of trans*ness I'm actually needlessly in therapy in order to get top surgery. I'm taking away rare therapy sessions in order to just ... awkwardly talk about how I don't have problems in my everyday life
Started watching/listening about two months ago and really enjoying it when having to do chores.
the issue with some of the diagnostic criteria of gender dysphoria is literally that we're meant to treat people who don't fit into the gender binary with a system reinforced by the gender binary.
playing with the opposite gender's toys and liking the opposite gender's clothes is such a silly bullet point, it reinforces the idea that transness only exists on a binary and that's so very far removed from the trans experience for so many people.
This actually made me want to see an episode talkingspecifically about agender or non-binary people and like maybe talk about how to them it can be really confusing and hard to fit in this world or how like figuring out their gender identity can be difficult and like sociality role in that. I think this could be interesting topic
ive been watching sci guys since episode 5 so pretty much from the beginning ive been watching noah for 4 or so years so thats how i found sci guys in the first place but ive always loved podcasts and science so this is my favourite podcast to date :D
i started watching sci guys since i saw noah announcing corrys new science podcast :p. so the start!
I find social dysphoria to be the hardest to deal with personally because I am gender non conforming and trans, so pre-T is constantly people assuming I'm a woman but I'm not but I like feminine clothing, then proceed the millions of questions to justify my existence or tell me I don't know myself, yippee!🎉 :D
I couldn’t afford to get my eggs frozen when I started T and I’m in the US so there was no chance of getting it free or covered. I knew I never wanted to get pregnant and that surrogacy was my only option for bio kids. I guess I’m lucky I’ve always wanted to adopt so it wasn’t a huge issue. Next up- getting approved for an adoption as a trans guy in the US!
This was a fantastic video. With all the shit going on right now here I really needed to hear some sane people. Hugs from hell
Doing a project on this right now actually, this is super interesting. Never watched you guys before but I’ll have to watch some more
Chat replay is on point. "Taleshunter: Damn. Having children are important enough that you need to ask permission from your husband before hysterectomies, but not so important that you don't have to pay 5k for having your eggs frozen?"
True shit
Literally my second episode and I'm already hooked 🥳😆🥰
BTW, endometrial ablation is a better solution to stop menstruation than hysterectomy. It is also less invasive and a lot safer.
Corry i'm so glad your understanding of the gender dysphoria Noah has gone through. Lucky to have each other. And your other mutual friends too. Congratulations for being on 3 years. I am going to hear Noah's show in Cambridge Mass America on June 7th 2022. Maybe i'll see you there too. of course you may be busy with sci guys
"None of you have had it so Ill describe it-" a perfect segway into the difference between sex and gender lmao 😂
As a trans scientist that has studied sex determination and differentiation I have to say y’all ate at this convo
I just discovered you guys. Great show. Thanks for putting this up.
As someone who is trans and who was sexual abused as a child, I wanted to chime in with a couple of things.
Firstly, being abused didn't prohibit my transition in any way as I had already done therapy when I was a teenager and when I was in my twenties and late thirties around my abuse and I informed my assesor about all my therapy and that was fine (also I had to wait 4 years for my first appointment and I had already been living as a woman full time during that time, plus I had started hormones and done hair removal privately).
Secondly, and this, I think, is important: I spent many years believing that my gender dysphoria was because I was abused. But, having processed (to death!) my abuse experience and come through all that and had healed on many levels, I start had gender dysphoria and it was at that point that I realised there was someyhing deeper than just my abuse going on. In fact, I can say, that not realising I had gender dysphoria held me back and also prolonged my therapy whereas if I had recognised I was trans and acknowledged my abuse and was able to separate and compartmentalise those two things, then I would have healed on both accounts much more rapidly.
No trans person with gender dysphoria who needs to medically transition will agree that the NHS system is "nearly perfect". Waiting for years has been hell and I had many periods of depression with suicidal ideation due to that wait. I'm still waiting and by the time I get bottom surgery I will be 50 (or nearly 50) with the last vestige of my 'youth' having been ripped away from me...
Was gonna say informed consent clinics exist here in America, but Noah pointed it out. I'm a week on hormones myself, i went through an informed consent clinics myself. Didn't want to go through a therapist because it costs and would have taken longer.
1:20:15 “one thing is absolutely certain”
My brain: mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell
Idky but it just popped in my head 😅
This fact was force fed to me all throughout school so the same thing went through my brain too!
I started watching sci guys when Noah made a day in a life I rewatched it for the 4th time because I thought it was funny and he brought up the ADHD one so I watch it and it was about a month before I had my first ADHD appointment still being tested now
I started watching y’all about a year ago, I found y’all from Noah’s videos 🔥
*Bodily agency* REALLY gets the boot in these kinds of discussions, especially among uninformed people. This is not a criticism of the podcast or anyone in it, but I feel like this has to be said. There really is NO reason to put trans people through a bunch of hoops just because you can or because "letting" people access transition tools and therapy makes you nervous... There are problems in every system. The answer is not to make trans people work HARDER for medical access than everyone else.
...Below is a long post about the missing perspective. Note, I'm not yelling, I'm using occasional caps to highlight key phrases and emphasis....
We are not more stupid than others. We are not more unreliable than others. We don't need a chaperone. Making it be about sexual abuse survivors or young people or butch lesbians or any other group who is POTENTIALLY vulnerable to becoming detransitioners is the same thing as the bathroom debate argument that if we let trans women use the toilet, then people PRETENDING to be trans will cause problems. It's ALWAYS about the "fake trans" population and how much damage they will do to themselves or others.
It's a total boogeyman! There is absolutely no use trying to second-guess people who are sure they're trans, EVEN IF they're wrong! ONLY THEY can come to those conclusions!
Informed consent is THE answer. That is how ALL medicine works. If I say my leg is in excruciating pain and might be broken and I think an xray makes sense, the doctor says "bring him to the imaging room", not "protect this stupid and confused girl from terrible terrible radiation damage by xray, and the potential tragic discomfort of wearing a cast for no reason, and send her home with a pat on the back!" just because SOME people have Munchausen's or Leg Hurty Syndrome or whatever else might present superficially as a patient having a broken leg. Like xrays, HRT for example is a great way of getting MORE INFORMATION, not a frickin death sentence for cis people. Telling people they're not trans and don't deserve treatment is paramount to gaslighting and criminal negligence, and this is on a very large scale that this is happening!
INFORMED consent means INFORMED consent. Meaning the patient is well-advised and educated and is READY to make a life-altering decision WHETHER OR NOT they turn out to be right on the money, which most trans people AREN'T anyway. Many of us know what we need but not exactly WHY, or what our SPECIFIC identity is, and THAT'S OK.
We don't know for sure if my leg is broken or not but if I think it's wise to put it in a cast, THAT'S FINE, it's MY LEG, and the doctor is there explaining the options in detail for me! I get the cast EVEN IF my doctor doubts it will be much help, because it's MY health and safety and I shouldn't be questioned for not wanting to gamble on it! If I think it's worth it to me taking all into consideration, then they give me a cast or I find someone who will, or if need be I'll do it my damn self, but if it comes to that, the health system has FAILED.
We need to stop acting like trans people have to be PERFECT to be trans, or to receive support, or access therapeutic tools, or to live as a different gender.
And just like abortion, barring us from accessible healthcare just makes us go back-alley like in the bad old days where you had to be a prostitute to fund your transition. Trans people used to DIE from unsafe unprofessionally-administered gender surgeries like silicone injections and self-amputations. People CURRENTLY buy, sell, and give away hormones on the black market because their doctors "don't agree" with their needs. Putting up barriers to healthcare just makes this sort of shit more likely for us to go through, and it not only is degrading, it FORCES US INTO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IN ORDER TO SURVIVE.
People don't stop being trans just because you put them through it. They still need speedy and respectful help. Pick any disorder at random and suddenly raise all barriers to access treatment, and you will have outrage and crisis as people drop like flies. It's like transplant patients except imagine there's no organ shortage, people are just NERVOUS about trading body parts around, and they think you're weird if you're fine with it, regardless of the impact that attitude has on your actual survivability.
Imagine if people thought that organ transplant patients were delusionally insane because they believe it's okay to have another person's guts in your body.
"Just accept the life god wanted for you instead of being a disgusting degenerate that nobody will love because you've mutilated your body and you're an unnatural freak of nature"
Yall. *Informed consent.* That's all.
*Informed Consent.*
There is no such thing as a fake trans person. The sooner everyone acts like it, the better.
Sci Guys came into my life 01:17 minutes ago! Saw the video while scrolling through the suggested home screen, clicked it and here we are the rest is history haha
I love you this pod session. Love you guys !!
sci guys came into my life about a year ago I think 👍
Would love to see an episode about the history of gender dysphoria!
i started listening/ watching like a week ago id been watching noahfinnce and came across an ep and its my 2nd fav podcast now, right next to disractable
I can't resist. (Adopts Patrick Stewart's voice:) "THERE. ARE. FOUR. GUYS!"
At 37:53 the guy mentions that if you could just buy Testosterone or Estrogen just from the counter then the percentage of detransitioning would be higher by a good margin but in actuality a lot of cis people when offered to take even one pill/injection of T or E will not want to take it at all or will even be repulsed by the idea. The reason for this is that when your gender identity matches your sex nothing feels wrong it's like feeling your bones. You shouldn't ever feel your bones unless something is wrong. As such people who don't experience anything wrong with their gender identity wont want to buy and use their opposite hormone. Don't get me wrong that percentage would go higher up however only by another 1-3 percentage. I also don't think anyone should just be able to go to a rite aid and be like, "1 estrogen please" much how I think you shouldn't be able to go and ask for adhd medication without having an adhd diagnoses. However the restrictions are too tight when it comes to Estrogen Testosterone and adhd medication to the point where those who need it have an insanely hard time to get them.
I love this show
I love dysphoria (I don’t I just find it an interesting talking point it’s shit that I feel dysphoria )
There may be something to the angle of being uncomfortable with the parts associated with your biological sex. Prior to hrt, I was pan, and only really had a problem with my own anatomy, but after some physical changes, I now have intense anxiety around cis women in a sexual context. It's like I finally got away from that so subconsciously anything that reminds me of the parts of myself I "escaped" just makes me very uncomfortable and almost panic at the thought. She could be the most beautiful woman in the world, but the moment I start to think about sex, my brain goes "No! You can't make me!" It wasn't like that before.
Im a trans women and when on dating sites i literally rejected all women that matched with me cuz i was to afraid to match with them most of them were pansexual
I think I started listening to your podcast around a year ago
This is literally my first vid from you guys 😂
I think this true reasoning behind disallowing trans people (and women) the bodily autonomy to make medical choices for themselves is religious belief. Conservatives tend to believe that you should not “interfere” with “nature” and that your body is as god intended. All the while failing to realize the deep extent to which society has already interfered with nature and that so many culture’s have different systems of gender.
In Christian conservative ideology there is basically a caste system of gender and race and no one is supposed to change their situation.
In regards to what you were saying about barriers I was thinking, people supposedly care so much and are so attentive to your inner person that they need to encourage government authority to protect you from the feeling of regret while at the same time minimising the feeling of dysphoria to next to nothing and suggesting that inner person be broken down and changed until a component as core as gender identity is altered to their liking. Potential regret is not a worse feeling than present dysphoria and protecting people from regret is never worth sacrificing our autonomy and our choice regarding our own bodies. (I’m cis, I think, so correct me if I’ve mischaracterised anything, I’m teachable)
I started listening to sci guys around September 2021
I REALLY appreciate the support for non-binary and non-dysphoric people here. it's so important and it's good to see.
Sci Guys came into my life today!!! I am extremely excited to have found this podcast and now I have a new crush… 🥰
I had alot of dysphoria and like my dad still says I “get sick a-lot”
i think ive been listening for like two years now? either way happy birthday science guyence
28:48 thank you for bringing that up jamp i struggle with that constantly as a gender nonconforming trans man. i constantly battle with this inner turmoil thats like "youre just confused your not really trans youre just looking for attention" bc thats what society thinks of me and yet at the same time im over here like dreaming to look like howl from howls moving castle or like david bowie or someone like that lmao
as a nonbinary person who only wants bottom growth (I'm afab) this is such an uncomfortable thing for me because people REALLY don't understand it. I don't necessarily have dysphoria around my genitals but I want different genitals lol. I guess it's dysphoria it's just not really strong. It kind of feels like disliking a part of your body and wanting to change it.. like getting rhinoplasty or something. I don't like my nose but I live with it, I don't like my genitals.. but I live with it. It's probably not healthy at all lol.
Yes dysphoria a noticeable one so not that small
noah is my favourite sci guys member
please do an episode on the history of dysphoria