Trans Brains: The Science of Being Transgender (with NoahFinnce) | Sci Guys Podcast #61
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Is there a difference between male and female brains? Is that the cause of dysphoria? We delve into these questions and more with returning guest NoahFinnce!
PATREON: / sciguys
Subtitles by Darrien Justice.
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REFERENCES
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Okay the fact that Corry called birth control “sexy no kid” has me sobbing 😂
*Noah
@@VictoriaMeira7 noah corrected the sexy no kid to be contraceptive, actually
@@zephz3853 whoops! My bad.
It took me a bit to actually know what he was taking about 😅
As a biology major watching everyone struggle through the boney fish convo is hilarious
Teeth aren't bones, they are actually specialized scales made of dentin and enamel, nothing like bone really
WHAT OH MY GOD
Yes they are basically hard structures made by the skin (ektoderm). Bones are mesodermal i think?
This is what happens when you get a biotechnologist to describe anything bigger than yeast
So do sharks have bones?
@@ryandthatsit6323 No, sharks are cartilaginous fish. Their skeleton is made of cartilage.
I didn’t come here expecting to learn about the structure of sharks but I welcome it 😂
We draw you in with trans topics but it’s all a front for those sweet sweet shark facts
Blood is stored in the balls
@@fenixmeaney6170 🤦...
Hahahahaha same
@@SciGuys love that
In swedish we say "flowers and bees" because they pollinate the flowers and the flowers then spread. I think the bird thing is that they spread the seeds of flowers
That's makes well more sense
In Dutch we say 'the flowers and the bees' aswell.
In German it's "Bienchen und Blümchen" so kinda like "little bees and little flowers"
i’m american but my mom always said “the buds and the bees” cause she thought it made more sense then birds
Rebecca Madsen: We say that in Denmark too
I love that. “Gender dysphoria is sometimes defined as a mental illness, but then again so was being gay and so was a woman who talks too much; she was diagnosed with hysteria.” I am SO using that in the future for moron transphobes.
That line won’t necessarily work if the transphobe you’re talking to is also homophobic and misogynistic.
@@justc0dy touché
What about the analogy of somebody with anorexia who feels fat, should we give them liposuction? There have always been transexuals but there are now a growing number of people who are being influenced to question their gender identity causing severe anxiety. There is a worrying trend of suicide post operation or medical intervention, studied since the 1950s.
Well I mean being gay doesn't require treatment. I get the argument ur making don't get me wrong. But yea dysphoria causes people to kill themselves and there is nothing wrong with having a mental illness
@@transwomenaresexistmen a lot of us are. i tried but i was shite at it
The mention on female body hair, "we grow it and shave it off BECAUSE we are female" it shines light on society's sexist conditioning. WE ARE HUMAN WE ALL GROW HAIR. No gender or person should feel pressure to remove hair from their body! Thank you for discussing these topics guys!
Couldn’t agree more. I hate this about our society. Before I transitioned (female to male), I was still in the military. The military orders state women have to shave “unsightly hair” or wear panty hose. Can you imagine? Wearing panty hose in running shorts?! Ridiculous.
@@HotTakeAndy wtf I did not know that, how can they say what someone does with their hair? Are panty hose, tights? I'm from UK
@@alicelight2633 It’s crazy and something I didn’t know before enlisting. You also can’t buzz cut your head either.
@@HotTakeAndy I wouldn't get in then hahaha I have a buzz cut. Sound like your better off out of it.
@@alicelight2633 Oh yeah I had no idea those were rules lol but they wouldn’t have let me transition the years I was in anyway :)
"The trans is speaking" one of the best lines omg haha
Is it just me, or did Noah not speak very much?
@@DementedHoundour Corry, the host, seems to have spoken the most. I bet that has to do with the research he did, though. But if you want a transgender expert talking a lot, Maybe Jammidodger (Jamie Rainer) could help with that. He even has a phd in it, I believe.
@@jacobc9221 he is also noah bf
how long until people identify as different species?
@@MickeyMouse-lm6zj People already do that. We just don't respect them, since being able to misinterpret the concept of being transgender so poorly is a trait that all of they have done but no actual animals have done, indicating that they're not actual animals.
Unless you're arguing in bad faith, you could always buy Jamie's book, _The T in LGBT._ It's an all about being transgender book with the stories of Jamie and other transgender creators.
*casually watching this bc being out means having to constantly debate my existence with the parents*
Same here same
💙💙💙
sameee
damn ♥️
Saaammeee
Tho I don't particularly feel safe enough to debate my own existence yet.
But at least I have videos at the ready in case they ever have questions.
They're in the denial stage rn, so they're not going to ask questions for awhile probably. :/
I am 35 mins in and I just realized they’re not in the same room
Rye McKenzie me too! 😂 I need to know which software they’re using.
Luke is the only one who is not in the same room
Yeah I wasn't entirely sure if they were or not
3 are in the same room. The British dude is not.
@@Lavender_1618 Well, that doesn't narrow it down all that much.
It's funny Corry blames the topic chosen instead of realizing that Noah is just being Noah 😂
"We tend not to focus on the why, because the way to make people comfortable with those identities is just to not be mean to them.”
I chuckled out loud at this because it's just... _so beautifully on point_ it's astounding that people don't comprehend this. It should be the simplest thing.
i wish all of this was a part of the school curriculum
We learn all this in Sweden!
its pointless
It was in my school, but I went to a private school in Brazil
@@thoticcusprime9309 oh look a right wing npc
It is part of the curriculum in Poland... Which country is NOT teaching that at school??
Came here for a gender dysphoria and transgender breakdown and got that plus a sex education set to funny 10 that was more in depth than schools. 10/10.
Also shark anatomic structure
38:18 I'm in an all girl's school and I hate how when I ask why do I have to shave they say it's unnatural not to..... But then why do we grow it Karen??
I feel like your school is forcing their opinions on their students. You should get out of there.
its ridiculous, I stopped shaving years ago and my skin has never been better! unfortunately though thanks to how the majority of society views body hair on women I have been shamed to the point that I cannot wear anything that reveals my legs or underarms, I miss wearing my short summer dresses, but I've recently bought some cute thigh high socks so that I can start wearing them again without people shaming my leg hair!
Rebell
Because Gillette wanted to sell more razors basically 😂
Talmorne SAME! My skin is much happier without shaving. Some months I want no fur, so I get waxed, others I don’t care, so I don’t. I know it’s really awful to be shamed, so I hope it makes you feel more confident to know that someone else will happily wear clothes that show their legs even with leg hair. I don’t wear dresses or skirts often, but I’ll wear swim wear or shorts regularly.
This was very interesting. I never actually bothered to watch any of the other podcasts because i thought it would bore me and i wouldn’t understand but i now realise there is a lot of humor involved and people asking questions to simplify the topics. I still didn’t understand it all, seeing as i’m new to the scientific world and it is in my second language but i got the general idea and definitely learned a lot. Completely worth my time
We’re glad you changed your mind and gave it chance!
about how pink used to be a "boy" colour and blue was a "girl" colour, I read somewhere that this changed because Hitler labelled gay men with pink triangles and it was seen that "gay men are feminine and look they've got pink so pink is now feminine" (which is just stupid). I'm not sure if the change in the associations with pink and blue was started by Hitler's labelling system, but it probably had some sort of effect on it.
I read somewhere that the shift was decided because the colour red was seen as a romantic colour, and so was pink then by association. Women were seen as more “romantic” and so therefore the colour pink was assigned to them. I don’t know which is true, though yours does sound more likely
I don't think it has anything to do w Hitler. Back then why would they want there little boys to be associated w femininity and being gay. Obviously it was frowned-upon for a male to be feminine and gay.
I've actually read why pink was a "boys colour" and blue was a "girls colour". Apparently they said pink was seen as a strong colour and was good for a boy as it was a shade of red and blue was seen good for girls because of the Virgin Mary who wore blue and it also was seen as a delicate colour.
yeah no that's what I heard and pink was for boys because pink was seen as a strong colour and blue was more delicate.
I read the reason it changed was because the suffergettes wore pink(male colour).
How do you spell suffergette?
Lex The crackhead omnidroid you shouldn’t generalize feminists like that. The word you’re looking for is TERF
As a trans man, I'm ashamed to say I didn't actually know about most of this. So thank you for the new information (and the giggles) . I will definitely be joining for future podcasts
could be false info
@@thoticcusprime9309 Which?
what are you referring to?
@Leads who? you?
@Leads what are you implying
It's so fun to watch people talk about all the things I had to learn as a genetics and biology major in my undergrad. Gave me flashbacks of organic chemistry and human genetics haha. Super happy this stuff is being talked about and explained in easily digestible definitions for the layman.
Glad we could help you reminisce!
as a trans person myself, i learned a LOT here and my perspective of gender and sex has definitely shifted or at least been nudged towards a shift
Same thing here, I’ve feel like things have changed
As a trans guy, I was really impressed by how nuanced and thoughtful you guys tried to be approaching this topic. As always language is imperfect but you defined your terms and were careful and precise in the ways that you used them. I think this is pretty much the best we can do with this topic where the usefulness of a particular mode of inquiry or language is largely context dependent (it would be disrespectful and inaccurate to call me a female in a social situation for example). I also appreciated you bringing on a trans person. Often people discuss us like we're zoo animals and never consider that we might by virtue of our experiences have insights into our own actions, motives, and desires that they can't access and I appreciated you not doing this.
“Ovaries” more like “Go-varies” away i don’t need you anymore 🤪
SO ME 😭
same
You gotta yeet the teet
💀💀💀
I think the thought of a "male/feminine" brain is equally terrifying and fascinating. On one hand, me - as a highly dysphoric trans guy - having a "male" brain sitting atop my AFAB body would be palpable, solid evidence that would provide me with visible proof that I am indeed trans (rather than the self diagnosed, invisible feelings of dysphoria which then get affirmed through professional evaluations... mostly done by cis doctors and psychologists). On the other hand, I'm getting major impostor syndrome thinking about the possibility of my brain being "female" in some way. I also felt that the question about publication bias was excellent.
I have a similar fear. But, I don't think it works that way! Any gendered differences between brains seem slight enough that they aren't reliable, just maybe a hint.
It also reminds me of when a partner pushed me (depressed agender, now happily transitioning) towards transition and I reacted poorly. The "trans prime directive" can be frustrating but it exists for a reason. People have to come to that realization on their own, or they'll often reject it for a while. "Your brain has a 60% chance of being more male than female" doesn't sound convincing compared to all the clues I was in denial about.
This is really interesting to me. I'm non-binary and autistic and when I was at uni an autistic friend in psychology was studying autism and gender identity because studies seemed to indicate there was a higher proportion of trans & gender diverse people in the autistic population than in the non-autistic 'general' population. So much so gender identity was beginning to be included by advocacy organisations as a factor to be considered when working with people with autism. This is interesting because autism does have a certain fixed brain type element- research indicates the structure of the brain is largely different in a similar enough way to label it 'autism' from the non-autistic brain. Now the brain is plastic so areas of difference can be focussed on and developed in a way that changes the brain structure a little but you can't basically socialise or educate a person out of autism there will always be a fundamental difference in the way the brain functions and has been formed. So if there is a higher level of trans people in the autistic population you could initially argue there must be some inherent biological brain element being suggested because it seems to be more prevelant in the 'different brained' individuals. But what you pointed out about it not being that simple and social binaries having affected how we compute the science sometimes is very true. Because autistic people also have poor social instinct- as in the brain struggles with the ability to unconsciously take in the behaviour of those around and adjust our own to it- this tends to be done consciously by watching and consciously changing- so any unconscious socialisation that plays a role in gender identity could just be less effective on autistic brains and so they are more likely to be 'publically' trans or gender diverse, it might have nothing to do with a fundamental difference of brain biology. I really liked how you talked about complexity vs trying to suggest an answer because it prompts you to think about things differently rather than just listening to be told. I know when it came to chest dysphoria for me it was less prominant when I was younger and still deciding whether I might want to birth children because I could see my chest as annoying but potentially useful functional objects, but once I concluded I very much did not want to birth children the dysphoria sky rocketted because suddenly there was no function for these things they had no business being there- which shows I guess how something like dysphoria isn't a singular thing, because whilst they were still a functional object to me the thing I was feeling (that I didn't know at the time was dysphoria) was managable, but once that functionality was removed and my chest soley became a 'sex characteristic' the dysphoria became frequently crushing because the only thing that part of my body did was (to me) gender me falsely to everyone who looked at me and myself and really messed with my sense of self and identification with my body. I found this topic but also the way you addressed and discussed it really really interesting. Also you made me laugh which I needed rn.
so i'm still trying to figure myself out but as of now i also identify as non-binary because of multiple reasons and i've also self diagnosed myself with autism ---- i know, i will try to get a proper diagnosis in the near future but i've been researching about autism now for two or more years and i constantly find new things that also apply to me. not everything of course but quite enough things to self diagnose myself i guess...
so what i actually wanted to say is that i find your comment really interesting cause i've noticed after being around the autistic community online that there seem to be a lot more trans people than in neurodiverget communities. and i feel like i actually heard of more autistic people who identify as non binary than as a binary gender. maybe i just feel like that's the case because i personally can relate more to these people so i tend to notice and remember them more but i do think that there is an interesting affect of autism on gender. and i think it's kinda funny that you are as well non binary and autistic :D
@@jerrypie1230 i'm also non binary and (also self diagnosed, hard to get a diagnosis because life) autistic!
Very good post!
A little hard to read because it is all one paragraph, but still very interesting.
@Jackson Smith
- OP is nonbinary and autistic
-
- There is a higher percentage of trans people in the autistic population than in the population overall. This means some people could argue that there is a biological brain component of being trans.
-
- But, since autistic people can struggle to take in external socialization cues, so it could also be that gendered socialization just doesn't "work" as effectively on them, leading to more being out as trans.
-
- OP appreciates how the video talked about complexity instead of just trying to argue one answer.
-
- For OP, secondary sex characteristics (like the chest) caused more dysphoria after they realized that it served no functional purpose for them other than signaling their birth sex to others.
-
- I hope this helps! Lmk if you want me to shorten it more
im non-binary and autistic too, and I/ve researched this topic before, its honestly pretty facinating!
loved this, and that last bit of discussion had me drawing parallels with an experience i had with two roommates. one roommate, A, wanted glasses in the cupboard to be stored upside down, and was visibly distraught when finding them right-side up. it was something minor that barely made a difference in my own activity. my other roommate, B, refused. B wanted an explanation, shot down every possible explanation given as paranoia, and went out of his way to flip the glasses the other way. suffice to say he only lived with us for two months. A was in a really rough spot during those months, all because B couldn't bring himself to flip a glass over when he put it away. well, and going out of his way to flip more, making more work for himself.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that regardless of any science, it takes so little effort from you and gives so much relief to someone else to just change a few words or actions. if you're so up your ass about genetic sex that you'll ignore the psychological studies that have shown that supportive environments greatly improve the lives of trans people, you're not on the side of science. you don't even fully understand genes. admit you hate anyone slightly different and go back to your cave.
Why is A's preference more important than B's? It sounds as though B was just as concerned with the orientation of the glasses as A was?
bijouxbox well I don't know the situation but A seemed to be more effected and B just seemed to be doing it just to annoy A but I don't know
bijouxbox A = visibly distraught. B = just wanted an explanation.
@@betty_q A was having to wash all the glasses again or have panic attacks when they were positioned rightside up, and B didn't even notice or care until he was asked to place them upside down. Even before he was asked, half the time he was putting them upside down anyway.
@@chrisrelhard As someone with OCD and like routines that I get very worked up about if they're effed with, I feel that pain. If someone was doing something like that without regarding how much it was affecting me, I'd lose my head, it's because of the whole consequence thing a bit, mine is monsters, I have monsters (with names and like appearances and somewhat variation in personalities, but it's not like I talk to them so lol) and they eff with me at night and they like to work together to make it impossible to fight against them, so I started getting help from family to not just "cope" but adjust my surroundings to be more bearable. I can sleep a lot easier now, albeit I still have nights of paranoia/staring at shapes with a quickened heartbeat/weird noises making me shoot up in bed, but I'm not hysterically crying every night until I pass out from exhaustion, so I'm taking it as a huge win.
Even now though, I can't like walk through dark hallways for very long, there's impending doom and it gets worse and worse with every second I'm in the dark until I'm sprinting around the house in a fight-or-flight flight reaction. Usually followed by panting/mild panic attack and distractions to cope.
Also I find it so aggravating that B didn't acknowledge A's reasons to be "valid". I don't know if A had OCD, but for me, my monsters don't have a "reason". I know that there's no real reason I will suddenly have to press my back to the bathroom wall or peek out the curtains to make sure (we'll use abbreviations aka first letter of my names for them to save people peace of mind, plus they can sound cliche since I named them after prominent features lol.) W wasn't there, or that SM wasn't behind me (aka standing against the wall). I can't explain why I panic when walking to my room at night, glancing over my shoulder and seeing flickers of what could be, even though I know it's just my head. I can't explain why I can't deny that these monsters are real, because they are to me, even though I know they aren't like in real life, even though they logically make no sense. You don't have to have a perfect explanation to have someone stop causing you distress...
Wait how tf did I not know insulin is a hormone. I’m literally a diabetic
Erssie Major bro wtf
Yes... How did you not know this? Isn't it part of the basic high school curriculum?
@@MrSplonger i called myself stupid u don’t need to
@@sb-gy1jz I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just asking the same question you asked, but genuinely. How *did* you not know this? I imagine you're from the United States, I'm just interested to know how that sort of thing happens there.
@@MrSplonger oh ok so i either wasn’t paying attention and they did teach it or they just didn’t teach it idk which lol
As a trans person, a very validating thought and eye opener this episode gave me was that we don't ask why we are the way that we are regarding sexuality, such as gay or bi. We just accept it for what is, because in the end, it doesn't really matter because it's not going to change how different sexualities feel. This is how it should be with gender as well, and with the current ongoing discussion in society at large at the moment, I am hopeful that one day the stigma will have decreased so that more people can be their true selves.
"This episode's really gone off the rails very fast
I thought I had control and you guys snatched it from my grasp"
it's almost like a poem
A doctor in the er once called me "a hysterical female" (I'm nonbinary) for not being able to stop throwing up. He still expected me to be friendly with him when he came into the coffee shop I worked at.
maybe he thought because you didn't want to be the female you presumably are that you didn't like women either, makes sense init.
or if you're male maybe he was taking the piss out of you thinking there's anything female about you, which also makes sense.
I found this fascinating, basically everything we're taught or assume about biological sex or gender is wrong. My mind is blown and I love it, biology is amazing.
In response to the last part: The trans experience is complicated. Dysphoria takes on many forms. It could be discomfort with our the bodies, like phantom limb syndrome, where the presence or lack of features is discordant with our brain maps. It could be discomfort with how others perceive our sex/gender and interact with us based on that perception. Sometimes it's more the social aspects of living in a gendered society and not having those interactions align with your sense of self.
What each person needs will depend on what issues they face. For some social acceptance like pronouns and name being respected regardless of how they present/appear physically. Others will socially transition to align presentation with name/pronouns. Lastly some will require varying degrees of medical transition from low dose hrt or small procedures to full surgical and medical transition.
It can be a lot to unpack and that's why it's recommended for folks to have some therapy before making any changes to help figure out what's right for them. However it often ends up being gate keeping rather than assisting them in better understanding themselves and their needs.
As far as the history of treatment, their has been a long history of various attempts to "cure" being trans and they only ever succeed in temporarily putting the person back in the closet until they find a way to transition or commit suicide. The only effective "treatment" that has been found, is social acceptance and support along with the ability to explore and transition as needed. The less support and acceptance, and more barriers to transition care there are there higher the suicide rates.
I sometimes wonder if trans people would experience less dysphoria if our societies were way less sexist than they are currently. Like, we gender so many things, the shape of the leg tubes we call clothing, colours, food and drink, hobbies, jobs, everything is gendered, it's ridiculous. If we didn't do that, would trans people only experience dysphoria from their bodies, and not from say, the way they stand, or the things they wear or do? I suspect that might alleviate at least the gender role part of dysphoria?
@@AnnekeOosterink same I wonder too
I mean we could have just learn the concept
Identity≠body
@@AnnekeOosterink For some it very likely would alleviate it. Some of us have our dysphoria a little or even greatly alleviated just by having people we care about accept our gender identity and use our preferred pronouns. Though I can say too, for some of us just hormone therapy does a lot to make us feel like ourselves.
@@cameronrodriguez9242 How about you shut the fuck up before I make your pronouns was/were
Thank you very much for this explanation. As a parent of a trans son I am trying hard to understand the personal experience as well as the science surrounding transexuality.
However I learned and understood more from your comment than from this entire video... and more.
I think your kind of measured and insightful explanation is exactly what many who are learning about the subject of transexuality is exactly what we all need.
The kind of inane and immature banter in this video might be great for those who've already made up their minds that gender is non binary, as it does its best to assert that view, but for me who has been searching for something sensible, serious and genuinely informative from media sites supporting the trans 'movement' it's just another video of chit chat and childishess and tip toing around the important questions
I write from the perspective of a retired clinical psychologist and sex therapist (also having worked with trans individuals since 1972 to receive what they need and want). This was trying to deal with an extremely complex subject and I am very pleased that what came across was a genuine search for understanding, exploring the concepts and re-evaluating the categorical binary constraints of thinking about sex and gender. As we are now beginning to think about gender fluidity, non-gendered individuals and the non-binary nature of feeling/being masculine or feminine, our understanding and approach to supporting people must, of necessity, be a person-centred response to each individual.
Thank you and I love you guys. Love is love is love. I understand that it is relatively had-wired for our species to categorise and how useful it can be. However, in many, possibly most cases, categories lead us into making serious errors and block the understanding of complex issues. I must try to watch earlier and future podcasts.
It's interesting to hear that you're coming from a perspective like that! People's understanding of gender fluidity has changed a lot since the 70s, and a lot of what we see about trans people from that time is a lot more binary than what we see today. So I'm a bit curious what your experience with that has been.
In your experience, did non-binary presenting individuals ever come to you for help, or was being trans strictly a male/female binary? Obviously society wasn't quite nearly ready to accept gender fluidity back then, but I wonder how much gender fluidity existed on an individual level. I assume a lot of trans people performed a lot within the binary to be accepted, but if there were people presenting as gender-fluid that would be really cool to know 😊
@@Bakuze_n Wow! This calls for a lengthy essay or series of anecdotes, which I'm not going write here. It feels true that the trans people I saw in the 1970s tended to be much more binary in their thoughts about gender. Many MTF patients were coming to transition later in life and some wanted to look young and beautiful in floaty, frothy dresses and stiletto heels. They were unhappy to know that they would always look like drag queens and be unconvincing as beautiful women. My views on non-binary people come from within and outside people identifying as trans. For example, I had a client who was a professional wrestler. He said that when he was attracted to a woman he was very masculine, preferring to have sex doggy style and treated women rather badly and coldly. When he was attracted to a man, he felt feminine wanted to be wooed, caressed; have sex on his back while the other man penetrated him and they could lovingly look into each others eyes. I met men who didn't know what their sexual orientation was; they might think of no one when wanking or if they thought of someone it would be affection (cuddling and kissing) with someone male or female but nothing sexual or erotic. "Am I bisexual?", they might ask me and I would say, "Maybe the better word is bi-amorous." I had a MTF trans woman in the early 1980s, who was quite clear that she wanted to look and dress more or less as she was before that. She wanted to continue being a motor mechanic and saw no reason for family, friends or workmates to know that she was a woman and was happy if they would assume that she was a man. She didn't want to have sex with anyone and saw no reason to physically transition. She just wanted to know that she and I could accept that she was a woman no matter what she looked like or what she did in her life. I saw many men living a hyper-masculine lifestyle (military, police, boxer etc), who wanted to dress as a glamorous woman in order to be ultra-feminine and to relax from the pressures of conforming to masculine stereotypes and expectations. Later I saw people who sometimes dressed and behaved in a feminine way and sometimes in a masculine way. I could never predict whether the next time they would come to sessions like a girl or boy or rather unisexual. And I also worked with men and women who had no sexual feelings about anyone. Some of them resented having genitals (and women might deeply resent periods). "These things are useless to me. I'm never going to use them." I met FTM individuals that only wanted mastectomies and hysterectomies but didn't care about having testosterone, let alone wanting a penis. Others that would rather have a large strap-on penis when having sex with women than have a small dick. Many people who had thought of themselves as gay or straight came to realise that sexual feelings and attractions did not fit neatly into watertight boxes. As other labels became available they wanted to work with me on finding a new label - bi, bi-curious, gay-curious, polysexual, ambisexual. I would offer them the possibility that they didn't need to have a label. "I'm sexual in the way that I am sexual, uniquely orientated sexually". Each of these patients/clients made me re-examine and re-evaluate my thoughts, feelings, opinions and beliefs in a lengthy process. I am grateful to them, as they came to terms and understand themselves, they also taught me and prompted me to change my understanding and form more flexible concepts. I hope that this quite lengthy but in many ways incomplete reply helps you and others to read it.
@@raylightbown4968 Wow, thanks for elaborating! I guess what every individual's journey comes down to is finding out how they can comfortably navigate the world they live in, with the unique set of characteristics that they have. Cool to hear of so many different kinds of people, and that you were there to help them explore these kinds of matters :)
Ray Lightbown if you happen to record a series of vids talking about your experiences, I don't think I'd be the only person who would watch them. This sounds fascinating - history, psychology, cultural shifts over five decades, and gender and sexual identity all tied up together!
Do male and female brains exist, what do you think?
CORRECTIONS
Sometimes in the course of the show we misremember information or even make silly mistakes! Regular fans know we always make a point to bring these upon subsequent episodes but for first time viewers here they are:
1. Sharks are vertebrates... obviously - genuine brain fart here (just because their spine is made of cartilage it doesn’t mean they’re not vertebrates)
2. Mammals do not start out female! This is Avery common misconception, enough to sometimes even be taught to school kids. We actually begin in an undifferentiated state!
3. 39:23 *bimodal distribution
I definitely believe there’s brain structural reasonings for gender, but it’s not as simple as “male” or “female.” Just like other sex traits, it’s not completely binary
I’ve read about studies that say the brains of trans women are structurally very similar to the brains of cis women. Not sure how many brains were looked at, but just something I found interesting. I agree that we don’t know enough yet to say definitively, but we do know that brain structure can change so it would make sense that if you transition, your brain kinda does too? Either way, male and female is still a social construct. There may be biological differences, but it’s always a spectrum which kinda makes any binary labels arbitrary. 🤷
I think no one knows all we know is people r people so call them what they at they R (he, she, they etc.)
Possible
Female brains exist...the ? Is do men have brains or do they still think with the thing between thier legs??????
Corry is just that smart friend that was asked to explain something and all the friends decide to keep going off topic even though they asked 😂
why does this feel like dungeons and dragons, with corry as the DM and the rest of players taking every opportunity to derail him
I'm grateful that Luke is willing to ask difficult questions that others might find awkward.
hysteria comes from Greek. It actually means "traveling womb". They thought she was acting strangely (strangely from a man's perspective anyway) because her womb was traveling around her body. No, I'm not joking. Fortunately, when someone is described as "hysterical" today, it usually means they are very funny.
You're correct that top surgery was developed for reasons other than helping trans people, but both types of bottom surgery were developed by the Hirschfeld clinic in the 1910s specifically to help transgender people. They also developed hormone therapies for trans people, although hormone therapy had obviously been used before. And if you really want to make a TERF mad, a great factoid to tell her is that Dr. Hirschfeld's research into feminizing hormones played a key role in the development of hormonal Birth Control (aka The Pill). Everyone's liberation is connected. Attempts to liberate trans people (unfortunately cut short by the Nazis) helped the liberation of women.
This is utterly fascinating. Part of me hates that we don't learn any of this stuff in school, part of me fully realizes that I would have been both embarrassed and bored to tears if they had tried to teach it in school. Thank you all for presenting it in such a great way, interesting, in depth, but also funny (and distracted) enough that my ADHD isn't bored. Also, there is SO MUCH really great hair in this video. Like, seriously, you all have amazingly beautiful hair, it's almost unfair. Gonna be thinking about your hair and my hormones for weeks now.
It would be really useful to teach stuff like this at schools but, unfortunately, conservatives constantly fight against this and keep calling it "indoctrination" 🙄 (not at all like teaching religion since a really early age, that's not indoctrination at all...)
I'm a cic woman with PCOS and insulin resistancy. It's really underrepresanted even tho 10-20 percent of women have it. This video was really amazing and educating and everything positive
As someone who has had gender dysphoria my whole life, I would find it very validating if there was such a thing as a "female brain." Since people say "gender is a social construct," I've always thought that I can somehow "think my way out of it." I think I'm finally coming to the realization that no amount of willpower is going to make my dysphoria disappear, and that therefore I am a trans woman. But I think it would have been much easier to come to this conclusion if I knew the reason why I feel what I feel. "You're trans if you think you're trans" just feels too tautological for my analytical brain to easily accept.
I think the answer is 'gender isn't a social construct, despite what people would like to believe,' and that we're at the very least wired to experience it on a spectrum. I've thought a lot about this too and I've had about 9 years of knowing and accepting that I'm trans to consider it when I couldn't before.
Gender is NOT a social construct. MANY of our gender markers or indicators ARE. But we'd still be dysphoric even if we didn't dress in stuffy suits and flowy dresses.
I can’t stop laughing over the introduction. Where he goes “with special guest Noah Finnce” and Noah introduces himself 2 second later.
I know this is a pretty old video, but I'm just now seeing this and I want to add something to the conversation about gender dysphoria and other trans-related experiences being medicalized/categorized as a mental illness. I am trans, and I think the medicalization of transness is actually more helpful than hurtful. of course there will always be trolls who insult people for their mental illnesses, but if being trans and experiencing gender dysphoria is legally categorized as having a mental illness, that means that the medical care that many trans people can't afford on their own would be legally gerrymandered into insurance policies. in short: insurance would have to cover trans healthcare if being trans is legally considered a mental illness. the problem isn't mental illness being used to describe transness--it's people thinking that mental illness is in and of itself a bad and shameful thing. if mental illness was genuinely released from its negative connotations (destigmatized), trans healthcare could be legally sanctioned without making trans people seem "crazy," that is, irrational, hasty, unfit to make our own decisions, and not to be taken seriously.
I have been doing g a lot of introspection, and frankly, I am terrified of where it is leading me. I can't tell my family. Most of my friends are deeply Catholic, so that is a no-go. Being Catholic myself, there is the whole "Catholic guilt" issue. I am in a rural area, and I have no LGBTQ+ organizations to turn to for help. I don't know how to navigate this sea of change.
Whatever you do, remember that you do NOT have to come out-- either at all, or to specific people, or at a specific time... It's often much safer to move away or find a support system first. Since there's queer people born in every town, you may have a local support group you just have to find. If you know ANY out queer people, try asking them if possible. I'm sorry you're scared. I know how it is. There are millions of people going through it with you. But the good news it you have a lot to gain from this situation. You're at the starting block ready to race. Just do things on your own time and as it suits you. You'll get where you need to go. Good luck.
I grew up like that and it took until 8 years after I moved out of there to a big city to finally start to accept and even allow myself to explore who I really was (lesbian first then no actually a guy). So, unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, you've been chosen to get the fuck out of there and have your own life. Put yourself in a more open-minded environment, find new friends/family, and start to get to know yourself/who you really are and gain your confidence. You can hold off and keep ignoring it but it will get worse to push you out until you acknowledge it and do something
Ive never watched this podcast before, and clicked on the video kinda scared to see some transphobia. I was super pleasantly surprised to see how great you guys are and didn't even know noah was trans but It was super great to hear you guys be scientific without being transphobic. Great video, ill make sure to watch more. subbed.
I clicked on it expecting transphobia, saw corey and immediately was ready to learn actual science
I always have difficulties to understand the difference between gender and sex, gender dysphoria and being non binary, so I try to educate myself on this because nobody talks about it where I'm from.
Your video is amazing for someone like me!
Thanks :)
thanks for trying to educate yourself. some people that I know have so many resources to learn but they just refuse to be open minded. it helps that non trans people are trying to understand us better.
Hideaki Sorachi any cis-het person could one day be a parent, or an uncle or aunt or teacher or employer, to a young trans person. If we are to act as decent human beings, we have an obligation to learn this stuff.
Me too, I’m trying to educate myself because I’ve just never been taught about the difference between gender and sex and what gender even means. It’s sad because it’s universal to everyone: we all have a gender identity and it’s so confusing when we’re not even told what that is. And being ignorant towards it can cause issues, especially since it makes you more prone to prejudice or can make you be unwittingly offensive to others. We really should be taught and if we’re not now it’s on us to teach ourselves. But I’m glad to see lots of schools are stepping up with sex and gender education and I really hope it continues.
@@mohanthegay4398 non binary is a fake term and is not real at all. i dont care about being offensive to stupid people i dont want to associate with in the first place
@@mohanthegay4398 schools brainwashing people
Trans person here and fully agree with everything. Something that's important but not super relevant to the episode, is that social transition is really important for trans people. There are more trans people who need social transition than there are who need medical transition, and it's free. For example, for some trans people, having their pronouns respected is MORE helpful than surgery. It depends on what their main source of dysphoria is, plus environmental factors. In my perspective, transness is a medical condition. But not every aspect of being trans is a medical issue. The fact that we're not respected as our genders is a social issue, because it could happen to anyone for any reason. We don't get social dysphoria because we're trans. We get it because we're harassed and neglected. Only the directionality of it is related to transness. (The fact that a trans man might hurt when called she, but not when called he, which is the opposite of cis women). It sucks that people are fighting us so much about pronouns, clothing, and our participation in gender-segregated groups and locations (bathrooms, sports, homeless shelters, prison, etc)... Because it's the same as barring us from surgery and hormones, in that we require access to both social and medical transition in order for all of us to be healthy. Hope that makes sense... Basically, nobody should be misgendered, including trans people, because it's inhumane no matter who it's done to.
"Transitioning" (as you worded it), is to BLATANTLY LIE to yourself, man, and God about who you are!
Gender pronouns are an IMMUTABLE part of your BIOLOGICAL SEX! It is absolutely CHILDISH to believe that you get a say as to what pronouns people address you as!
So-called "transitioning" does NOT give you, or anyone the "right" to "change" gender pronouns!
You're not being "misgendered" if you're being addressed by words or pronouns that refer to your biological sex.
To be offended by reality, and to live in a fantasy world of lies, is absolutely pathetic!
FYI, no one is "trans" or "cis".
You are what you were created as biologically in the womb, not what you say you are based on confused "feelings"!
You don't get a say or choice as to what gender you are! It's an automatic part of biology only!
Quit living in a fantasy world of fairy-tale fiction, and ideological nonsense!
Get proper psychological help to accept who you are biologically, and get out of the toxic lies, and harmful ideology of transgenderism!
I don't care how much a confused man calls himself the nonsense of "trans woman". He's a MAN, and he needs to accept that instead of living in a LIE!
Likewise, I don't care how much a confused woman calls herself the fairy-tale nonsense of "trans man". She's a WOMAN, and she needs to accept that FACT, instead of playing imaginary, make-believe games!
If these people are competing in sports, they should ONLY compete in sports that go according to BIOLOGY rather than FANTASY! If they don't like it, then they can sod off, because they are PERVERTS! Good riddance!
The same should apply to toilet and changing rooms. I don't care how much you lie, and falsely call yourself the opposite gender to what you are, you don't belong there, full-stop!
@@antigenderideologies something is very wrong with you.
@@antigenderideologies gahdamn💀
@@itcouldbelupus2842 Uh, how is "something very wrong with me"? 😆
If anyone doesn't agree with the truth of what I said, then something is very wrong with them.
@@antigenderideologies what you said wasn't truth, there wasn't a shred of it.
You're probably just a troll baiting people.
Thanks for this.
My sibling recently came out as trans and I'm just trying to wrap my head around whatever science is out there. Grateful for the thoughtful, humorous presentation.
Love a bit of sexy-no-kid
A excuse me
Oliver A you heard me
@@abby-hz2xe tf
What?
30:33 & 30:39 Noah’s mind being blown by finding out that sharks don’t have skeletons made of bones 🦈💀
I am not going to add any context as to how this came about during a trans themed podcast 😆
the way noah says estrogen init sent me
I didn't think there were two ways to say it cause I thought the way Noah said it was normal but Cory called it eestrogen basically
The one dislike is J.k R*wling
The second one is the big any tangerine because hes mad about all the facts
Even if a trans woman had the brain of a woman, they were still born in a male body which is different from females. All JK Rowling wants is that very simple difference and basic biological fact to be acknowledged and for women to able to describe their own unique experience. It's hard for women to share prisons or combat sports with male bodied people. That doesn't just magically change if you got the brain of a woman.
@@BloodAndGutsTV she said that trans women weren't real women...
That's called transphobia
Your defending a transphobe
Why? She never denied trans people exist.
@@BloodAndGutsTV There is a law paper online which picks apart Rowlings arguments, which might be of interest to viewers. It's from a legal perspective as opposed to an activist view point.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-2230.12507?fbclid=IwAR2-tS47fTpFpvT9WgVncQzV4Ff7V7CGn5I5fJ2ggDmXjO1wFiKfF9bYAPQ
At the very end when you guys talked about trans people from a non medical standpoint and Luke said that he never hears people talk about this topic like that... i never realised that i too think about transness in that way WAY too much. And, sure, i love to know why things happen but to only think about why and how to "fix" it instead of just accepting it like we do gay people must surely be very harmful. This video made me a better ally and maybe even changed the trajectory of my academic career, thank you!
Someone please tell the redheaded man about social dysphoria! Trans people are not only in discomfort with their bodies, but also with the way people refer to them and treat them as people, because our society culturally treats women and men differently and someone feeling like a woman but being referred to and treated "like a man" is distressing. (Or the other way around.) He seemed to only have heard about trans people in a very medical sense but gender is such a cultural, social thing that it can't really be seen as only biological or medical.
Thanks for this episode, loved it!:)
First one of these ive watched, made me very happy when you said links to the references are in the description
Its a sign of good research to site your sources
bless luke’s heart for being so delicate w every question
Sex exists on a spectrum in more ways than hormones and secondary sex characteristics. If we didn't feel the need to force people into these two binaries and hide everything that exists outside the norm, there might be more awareness about the existence of intersex people
Just want to mention you don’t need to have dysphoria to be trans. If you have gender euphoria for presenting differently or feeling like a different gender then you are also trans. You don’t have to hate the body you’re in to be trans. What defines being trans is when a person identifies as a gender that is not the gender they were assigned at birth. This can be any gender. And if you’re not sure if you identify with the gender you were assigned at birth that’s ok you can also use the trans label as you like for yourself.
I've heard a lot of people say X-men is a trans analogy.
It was definitely meant as an allegory for societal discrimination, and works particularly well as an LGBT stand in
So may shrek be.
they were explicitly coded to be BIPOC (black / indigenous people of color) and SGM (sex and gender minority) peoples. stan lee said so himself =D
X-men is so very obviously a race analogy.
@@FreeTheDonbas Stan Lee : Why not both?
"Sexy-no-kid" is now my favourite phrase
I like how they keep teasing corey LMAO
I do not like this
- Corry
lol I love Noah, he has such chaotic energy yet so wholesome at the same time.
little tip for anyone talking to trans people about dysphoria, never ever say 'are you sure about this?' or 'are you sure you're not going to regret this later in life?'. It can be really damaging to someones self confidence when they're just realizing and later on when they're certain it's just going to piss them off. Most trans people are really scared of not 'actually' being trans and it's not your place to reinforce that.
you're totally right, but it is also important for someone to be genuinely sure of why they believe they are trans, and the true meaning behind the way they feel. For example, lots of people who detransition thought they were trans, but they were simply confused or misinformed on what being trans really is. Which can then later damage these people later in life! Obviously we need to respect everyone, and use the correct language, but it is important to go deep into ourselves before making life-changing decisions. Your insight was really great btw :)
Aleena Parker of course it’s important to ensure everyone that transitions is trans and not confused, but using language like ‘are you sure you’re trans?’ Can be dangerous, imo the best way to be sure is to wait at least a year before transition, that way you have plenty of time to make sure you know and are more comfortable with the different pronouns
Addylen West also, the percentage of trans people detransitioning is wildly overstated - all the statistics I've seen are 1% or less. Compare that to the regret rate for life saving surgery such as organ transplants to really put it into perspective!
Psychologically, a person who is being pressured about their trans identity doesn't have room to examine what they want in life anyway. It's better if rest of us just say "okay" and use their correct pronouns and support them, and let them figure out in their own time what they need in terms of surgery and hormones. Everybody is different!
@@tealrose3248 that's a good point, I didn't know the regret rate was so low thanks for pointing that out
@@tealrose3248 yes, for sure ! as a trans person myself, I agree :)
Noah, I applaud you. Whenever anything about trans surgeries comes up and I'm asked questions, my brain can't decide between shutting down and being silent or throwing up defenses and sending out a raiding party lol
One thing that would help a lot of trans folk would be lab-constructed gonads. Having a reliable no-effort automatic supply of the required hormones without injections or tablets would definitely help a lot of people.
but can we really get them to produse the right gamete for reproduction? why can a lizard go from sperm production to egg production but we can't
This is the scientific/technological advance I hope for...
We have been a reproductively centric species for nearly all of our history and I suspect that is why we are so fixated on the notion of male and female, woman and man. . . can grow a baby, can start a baby. I have never experienced dysphoria so I can't speak to that but I've always been a woman who is more than just female and as a child I was often mistaken for a boy. The way I looked then did not bother me, in fact it felt like a good expression of me but people's REACTION to me was eventually more than I could take so I femmed up. Now imagine that we as a species are moving away from being reproductively focused. We now have the ability to create offspring in a number of different ways which does not require the social pairing up of 1 make a baby person and 1 start a baby person. That totally shifts the ground on which our society has been formed and I suspect that is why LGBTQ issues as a whole innately get under the skin of people in a seemingly irrational way. Let's face it .. as a race humans are not so fond of change and we are the face of change in society. ANYhow, all this to say that I suspect that, not ALL, but a great deal of the discomfort currently experienced by the trans community has more to do with not being accepted for who they are and present as than it does with the actual physical side of things. Don't get me wrong, I had a dream once that I had a penis and I PANICKED. 'GET IT OFF ME' so I am not trying to downplay the dysphoria but simply put if we could get to a place where people were just people however they presented and wherever they fit on this glorious spectrum of being that we so love to ignore.. .. we might just have a lot more healthy happy humans on this planet.
I feel exactly the same. For the most of human evolution we were following the eat-reproduce-stayalive-die lifecycle. Living for any other purposes is recent in human history and is influenced by the fact that we don't need to worry about survival and reproduction any longer.
Some of the dysphoria would sometimes be there for me no matter society's acceptance or not - but definitely a big 'ol chunk of my current level of dysphoria is from societal stuff - so although not a total fix, what you're talking about would be a HUGE improvement. I hope we get there sooner rather than later.
The secondary sex characteristics chat was interesting, i have PCOS and i can grow more facial and body hair than a 'typical' woman.
I have PCOS too and can defo second that! Something they didn't mention is that women can go bald too (I assume not exclusive to PCOS). It is definitely something I am always checking for signs of.
@@rosiesinc4917 men and women go bald most women just hide it tho
My early doctor discussions regarding my PCOS was about excessive fat cells created excessive androgen hormones. Later finding out that wasn't that simple. Underlying insulin resistance, leading to excessive insulin production, caused imbalances in hormones and, trying to remember now, dhea blockers causing hair growth on chin and chest and thinning head hair (female pattern balding?)
39:26 when he said "two hills" my immature 19-year-old self thought immediately: "buttcheeks lol"
I am a woman. I've given birth five times, so very few people try to argue with me about whether I'm really a woman.
If you took my brain out of my body and put it in a metal box that had all the life support systems to keep it alive, healthy, and able to communicate, I would still be a woman.
This is because my being a woman is caused by my brain and not by my uterus.
Yes, although apparently a lot of women feel without that even by choice it would make them less of a women
I wonder not you, but how many women that saying being able to give birth is strictly what makes a women when they don't want to have kids.
@@jessicadavidson9007 People say a lot of stupid things. I like to keep it down to facts: a woman is an adult human whose neurological gender identity tells her she's a woman.
today is the last day I'm going to be on time to any of these because I'm going back to school next week, and we're getting 2 episodes today, with Noah, good end to my time in lockdown.
Same here. I'm from Germany and tomorrow is my first day back in school in A WHILE and Sci Guys was definetly the best part of my quarantine...anyway too much unimportant personal info about me sorry 😅 have a great first day tomorrow
2 episodes?
lea schgrl there was a live episode earlier
I don't go back until the 12th of August
I was expecting the comments to be full of awful and evil people, but I'm pleasantly surprised! Every human is valid and should be treated with care and understanding, not cruelty and based off bigotry.
Wait, I literally did get up to get a cup of tea, and when I came back to them talking about sharks.... 👀
I love how you guys acknowledged how weird it is for someone to come back and hear about sharks because that’s pretty much what happened to me
waaait.. I didn't know you guys had a podcast?! It was in my recommended - luckily
How did I miss this ._.
Same
@@keyboarddancers7751 yea?
why is this the first I'm hearing about this hilariously chaotic educational podcast, my recommended decided now was the time to show me trans brains and so it was done
mildly off topic but
how it feels to have ADHD is like this whole video-
makes it easier to follow for me at least, sorry for those not used to it-
I did notice that it felt a bit more unorganised than most other podcasts I’ve listened to lately - but it’s structured like my inner monologue (and stupid ADD brain never shuts up), so I didn’t really reflect on it until I read this comment.
Noah is the most british dude I've ever heard
hold on, im just forwarding this to my transphobic parents
pREACH xD XD
@@Jjjbbb5678 you're an asshole.
@@Jjjbbb5678 jeez
@@Jjjbbb5678 your parents did awful
@@bruh-mb1rd what did they say?
I was kinda worried when I saw the title, but this is the first video that I’ve seen of y’all’s (hi from the US by the way!) and I am just so excited to see just how much research you’ve done Corry, and how thoroughly you understand so many of the different biological and personality components that make this topic so so complicated. So often all people want is an easily digestible answer, and often one that confirms their pre-existing biases, so I really glad that you took the time to not do that. As a nonbinary hoooman I thank you! I’m glad this video exists!
its mostly false information and lies to appeal to stupid sjws
i dont want to invalidate anyone but to be brutally honest i think being MtF (like in my circumstance) is a lot more controversial, especially at the moment with trans sports being banned in highschools recently because of "the biological difference" or even the response to Chris Tyson coming out. and even with parents, they can just say "oh youre just a tomboy" but there isnt anything like that for AMAB people. its always "be a man" or "man up". the response of women wearing some "mens" clothing is so one sided compared to if a man were to wear some "female" clothing. my old calc teacher for example, the first day of school this year i show up in a skirt, thigh highs, fishnets, makeup, fake boobs, and he says "wow, whats gotten into you?" but if a girl wears jeans with pockets he doesnt say anything. and again, i dont want to invalidate anyone, im just trying to share my thoughts and experiences on this.
Nah, as a trans guy, I completely agree. It's easier to be a flat-chested "woman" that wears jeans and hoodies. Ofc some trans guys prefer to present feminine, but that kind of goes in our favor. Trans women can't present masc or they will put themselves at risk, especially in public if they have a transfem flag on them or a pronouns pin. People often say they aren't "trying enough". We don't go thru it the same way. It's alright to make others aware of struggles that you have and it shouldn't be turned into a fight.
@@angel_but_also_trans thank you for sharing your perspective. its funny, i started wearing a pin on my backpack at school recently. i go to public school so luckily people arent outright bigots.
@@Crazyclay78YT I wish I could wear pride merch but in my country we aren't really accepted yet 💀
yep
I've learned more from these podcasts then I have from all my years of school
You learned false information
@@thoticcusprime9309 cool bye
@@thoticcusprime9309 source??
34:07 As someone who also couldn't pronounce estradiol, I learned that it is pronounced eh-strah-die-all
to answer luke's question about alleviating disphoria (just giving my perspective),my disphoria comes from the fact that I wont be perceived as a man by others and also because it is not safe for me to present as a man where I live so i wish i just had a male body . If it was more socially acceptable for trans people to be trans without surgery, that would be great because i don't want to change my body,I just want to change the way im being perceived because of my body. I guess I want society to transition and not me. ofc this will take a long long time, so transitioning will be the best option for some trans people.
Pink = a light red red representing fire which was deemed masculin
Light Blue = representing water deemed more feminine
Actually, the blue=female association was more about an association with the Virgin Mary, whose iconography generally depicted her with a celestial-blue cloak? And I suspect the red=masculine probably had more to do with its martial use right back to the Roman times (blood symbolism).
Really fun and shows the true complexity of a gender physically...and let alone the impact neurologically...what a fun podcast and so informative.
This was so interesting! Thanks for making this!
Thanks,
I really found your show
informative.And watching
You have so much fun with
it was great!
This is the first episode uve watched and I already love it
treated each individual based on their needs,
universal advice
Fetuses start out bipotential/undifferentiated- NOT female (not male either). Gonads and genitals have to be actively differentiated in both sexes. The idea that the default sex = female isn’t true...(although it is deeply entrenched in common thought)
Thanks for posting this. I learned lots. I've always viewed my "transness" as spiritual/emotional, but, yeah...HRT was a great choice for me.
this is my first episode and honestly the thumbnail guy's lil "we're ALL ftm,,,,,,," is just hilarious and im here for it
My question to debate is:
Should gender therapists/doctors base whether or not a client is referred or accepted health care &/or surgery upon future scientific evidence to confirm connection between gender identity and biology?
There might not be just a yes or no answer to the question “is someone trans based off their biology?”. This could be a spectrum with many different variables just like sex chromosomes, difference in human brains, hormones and genetics are. There could be exceptions to the rule.
This component future discovered within the human body which plays a part in gender dysphoria - answering the question “are you really trans” could still help client’s cases.
How should those who don’t have this sort of free pass to surgeries etc be navigated by professionals? How should the gender diverse individuals themselves go about getting the help they need?
Should these individuals have to pass the gender test to receive treatment?
Hypothetically, if this situation would be the case, I’m not sure I’d have a set opinion on the matter because of the range of different experiences across the trans community, and because of how my thoughts can be changed by new information that’s yet to be discovered and by new opinions that I come across.
But I do want individuals to be happy within themselves and to not have to go through gender dysphoria and the bundle of issues that may come with their experience.
Every outcome should be primarily based off of what is going to make the individual least likely to commit suicide, so surely they should be given what will help them cure their difficulties regardless of statistical experiments?
Therapy should still be on the table even if the test results pointed against them being trans to ensure peace, unpack reasoning for them thinking they’re trans, aswell as the opportunity to get the right kind of treatment for them and possibly medically transition regardless of previous results.
I’m not totally sure how all this should be handled. Respectfully towards the individual’s experience I’d hope.
I suppose the primary power should be given to the client to decide what’s best for themself.
Regret later in life is surely always going to be a possibility, and there are could be variables in this science, so they should just be able to change their own body in whichever way they want without scientific proof, rather emotional explanation.
Who would hold the responsibility if they regret the decisions made? The professionals or the individual? Everything is just so variable and kind of confusing when you’re searching for answers that probably aren’t set in stone like people would assume.
This was a bit of a ramble, hope this was not too hard to understand. Probably could have worded some things better but I’m tired now lol. Have a good day :)
I think we should always be careful with science. It's one of our best ways of establishing truths but it's also not perfect at all (cf. philosophy of science). And also, it isn't meant to respond to every question: you can ask scientifically how the universe was created, but not what actions are good or bad. That's mostly philosophy's and social sciences' job.
So the risk here would be letting scientific studies erase subjective experience, which I think you have very much considered.
But ultimately it's a sort of tango, I guess: we try to make science validate our experiences, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it makes us change our experiences and our thoughts, sometimes we make the way science works change (for the better, I hope).
I think in that sense you have your answer haha as I have mine, and it is roughly that we couldn't allow "objective science" to control trans people's lifes and bodies and decisions, because science could be biased or just not the right tool for these kinds of decisions, but it could also help a lot perhaps to facilitate some processes, and dismantle some of our own biases.
Now, it's interesting how these sort of questions translate into political decisions. Right now, in my country, you have to get "validated" by a psychiatrist if you want to get bottom surgery or stuff like that. I'm opposed to that because of what I've stated earlier. But them, it's also true that bottom surgery and stuff like that gets paid with taxpayers, public money (here at least), so what do you do with that? Do you regulate it or not? I'm very liberal/queer so I say no, but I would understand if someone said yes, and I'm open to more information about it.
@@prosperenfantinylosgeograf2721 : I'm curious what your thoughts on Detransitioners and "gender critical" people are who argue that this kind of liberal idea that people don't need regulations because they "know" what's best for them (especially minors) undermines other factors that could lead to the need of medical surgery (in the severe cases - because it involves irreversible changes) or in the need of calling themselves trans (despite the fact that they don't experience gender dysphoria or body dysmorphia).
@@AloisiusParker I think it depends a lot of where you are. I saw a detransitioner testimony of how she was given hormones without any info or anything, without questions and I thought it was odd, because it was like planned parenthood and so maybe they should have more talking and informing involved. And that's not really the case in my country, as I stated.
My honest opinion is that there should be research done about it. Are there some group of people more likely to regret it/detransition or is it random? I saw for instance than some research pointed to the idea that there has been more people in the spectrum (autism) that have detransitioned. And how common is it? 5%? 1%? less, more? And based on that, take action to prevent it, but without coercing anyone.
For minors, I have my doubts too, but then I also think it depends a lot on the case. I know for a fact that some minors have dysphoria that is so bad that they feel suicidal or stuff like that. And so for them there should be definitely experts involved, just not exclusively medical experts. But yeah, there's also research that shows that a lot of gender nonconforming kids stop having issues with their assigned gender after puberty (I know I was one of them, and now I would hate to not be a women lol), so yeah, it's a very complex issue.
I think it's extremely likely there will be lots of mistakes made, because it's a very new thing, and so there should be plenty of research made in order to try and avoid that.
But to the people not being able to make their own decisions, if they're not minors, I think it's not a good argument. I think people should be informed, of course. But many "gender critical" people say they are feminist, and I'm pretty sure they are as outraged as I am when a sexist doctor doesn't want to perform tubal ligation on a woman because they think they might regret it later, effectively controlling their sexuality. I think people should be informed if they are to make definitive choices, but they should be able to make them if they want to.
How did they go the whole podcast without mentioning the SRY gene on the Y chromosome? It's one of the most important things in sex differentiation and explains why some people are XX but look male instead of female. Really missed an important part of the role of the Y chromosome.
I'm so fuckin late but isn't that de la chapelle syndrome which is an intersex condition. I think if they covered those the podcast would be 9 hours long. But yeah, xx males are very interesting in this conversation, I hope they cover intersex people at some point!
@@chequeplease They didn't need to cover everything about it, just mention there's a specific part on the Y chromosome that directs male development. Having an X chromosome doesn't make you female, it's that you don't have the Y chromosome.
Corry sounds Australian when he says estrogen
I'm at 10 minutes now and what the red haired guy said is the most amazing thing I've heard from a cisgender person, except for the day my aunt told me she shouldn't be greaving for her niece watching my old pics, but understand that it's been always her nephew.
im a transman he/they pronouns and i think people need to be more educated on the LGBTQIA+ community and more on the trans community theres not enough infomation about genders really or sexualitys if we can learn about this on highschool of sex education i think it would be great to learn that we are all were females while being devolped in the womb and the hormones and get deeper in the research
alot of humanity misunderstood what transgender people or sexuality alot and thing its a bad thing people need to understand that being who u are is not a bad thing and being different can be a good thing
This problem is a categorical problem and the answer won't be found in neurology, mostly because we understand very little of the brain. Our biology is not really designed to be neatly comprehensive it varies it seems as a by product of evolution to allow for adaptability. The randomness in it makes categorizations somewhat shaky but we need them to navigate a chunk of the world. Basically, trying to say the brain is male or female makes little sense. They brain may exhibit traits or show patterns but the label male or female gender-wise and to an extent sex-wise is subjective. The human body does not use them or care, if one allow for some personification.
excellent podcast. i would have touched on how transitioning as early as possible, especially hormonally, can help you get much closer to your true self and prevent a lot of trauma. i actually started crying and had to pause the video because i was thinking about how i transitioned too late and there's no way for my body to be as feminine as it should without a ton of surgery that doesn't exist yet and i don't have the money for. (btw it pisses me off so much that people have to pay for any medical expenses period, like nobody asked to be trans, diabetic, asthmatic, etc. especially in the us, the richest country on earth, we have to pay such outrageous prices for things like insulin. fucking sickening.
The red head saying "wouldnt it be funny if someone was off getting tea and came back to us talking about sharks" RIGHT after i had just come back from getting a drink, hearing them talk about sharks all of a sudden
I think the term you were looking for was Bi-modal distribution. It’s a graph with two peaks separated by some distance, usually a pair of overlapping normal distributions from what I’ve seen.
I have never seen your channel before. With the title I was honestly expecting something not so great, but this was actually really good. I learned a lot.