Krystal And Saagar Debate: Dawkins Says Islam 'Not Decent Religion
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- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2024
- Krystal and Saagar debate Richard Dawkins saying Islam is not a decent religion.
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He’s already said this dozens of times throughout his career that he doesn’t believe all religions are equal.
the reasons he used for that are false tho. Dawkins clearly hasn't read any Christian scriptures.
Dawkins "doesn’t believe all religions are equal", just like you and everyone else. Religions are indeed different (not NOT EQUAL), but in different ways that we individually accept or reject.
Because they are not
Not all CULTURES are equal. Or deserving of equal respect.
Youre nuts lol. He has given multiple reasons as to why, and its pretty obvious.
He says worse things about the old testament too. Youre telling dawkins to read when you only know what he said from a few clips apparently @inversebrah
I feel like Krystal is having a different conversation here than what Saagar is
White Savior mentality is strong with her
Smh. Let the Muslims take over. Then at least they would make her shut up. Lol. She would be forced to listen to men speak.
Saagar fails to understand that any religion can and has been used to do evil things.
It's becoming more true lately. During the conversation, she often faces the camera while Saagar faces her. It almost feels like she's grandstanding a lot of the time now
Her voice and long winded sentences 😑
Islam is not above critique. It amazes me how many people think it's fine to shut down any criticism of Islam by calling it Islamophobia.
You can critique anything you want when you read the original source. Have you read the Quran ? Probably you don't even know what it is
@@amikewy you think I've reached 33 without knowing what the Quran is? Lol
@@RantsandHeadachesdoes being a 33 automatically makes you understand the quaran.
The answer is not if you had an issue with something in the quaran have you tried searching about it talking to a Muslim person about it or a scholar the answer is no, and if yes you choose yourself to be your own God.
@@aminzribi8982 "choose to be your own god" is a bizarre accusation religious people made up.
@@aminzribi8982 Actually that's the last thing you'd want to do, it would be like asking a NAZI or Communist what true Nazism or communism is about. You'd learn far more from the people that have fled, suffered or have lost family members to a violent totalitarian ideology than from those that support it. Finding people in the west that have escaped persecution and death at the hands of Islam are not hard to find or to have conversations with
Most people are not knowledgeable enough to discuss this but they think they do
Richard Dawkins knows about the life style of Muhammed. *Muhammed is a warriors not a peace maker*
You obviously know less than Dick does. The U.S. Presidents have been the biggest warmongers the world has ever seen. @@Alhilohe6336
Don’t forget pedo
@@Alhilohe6336 mo was an israeli?
Sagar is oppressed because he’s obliged to wear a formal suit to work that covers his whole body and a tie that obstructs his breathing . while Krystal doesn’t have to!
Someone please give Krystal a Quran
I highly doubt you’ve ever read a Quran let alone any book in the last 5 years
What about a Talmud or a Bible. There is more violent verses in the new and old testament than the Quran.
What about a Talmud or Bible? Both the New Testament and Old Testament have more violence than the Quran. Fun fact for your imbecilic self :)
Why? it depends how people interpret it. Just like people interpret the bible every which way it suits their own thinking. besides, the Quran believes in Jesus more so than Christians, they see him as a prophet more than as a "son of God". But even Jesus denied the he is the only son of god saying that "greater things than I you will also do" and the kingdom of god is in everyone, look within.
She wouldn't be taught how to read it if it was applied to her.
If Krystal feels that what Dawkins said was insensitive, she should just say that instead of pretending that ideological differences between religions don't exist.
just like Dawkins like to pretend that the Quran is supposedly more violent when research proves that the Bible is actually more violent
@kreyigy1
Really quoting that delusional narcissist?
Your statement is not thought out at all. There are clear differences even if you like to pretend they are just different teams playing the same game.
If you are going to judge a religion by its literature, then I assure everyone that the Old Testament matches the Quran, beat for beat.
If you're going to look at Islam country by country, you can't discount Indonesia and Malaysia, pretty chill places.
Yeah one religion says woman is born from the rib of man, and one religion says woman is born from the same material as man.
One religion pins the original sin on woman, and the other religion does not pin the first sin on the woman.
@@actualperson9628the point he was making with the Sam Harris quote is that the word religion is just a category and that there is massive differences between each one. You combated by making the same point and acting indignant about it for some reason. I think you misunderstood the quote because you are letting your inductive reasoning skills become clouded by hatred for Sam Harris. If you really hate the guy that much, don't let him cloud your wisdom
Saagar says: "If they had free and fair elections, I guarantee you Islamists would still win".
Yet both Iran and Afghanistan had secular governments before the current ones, which have been a result of Western interventionism.
Also, women covering up in burkas is more of a cultural custom than religious. And who says the governments of Qatar or Saudia Arabia are the 'models' of Islamic government? Anyone can see that the Arab states are ruthless dictatorships that only care about maintaining power and they use religion as a means to this end.
I tend to agree with Saagar, but that fact that he gets irritated seems to reveal an underlying bias at play.
And honestly, that's all good, we all have our biases. It's just that we should learn to separate fact from propaganda that is sprouted by our governments/media (Richard Dawkins being one of them) to create strife amongst us.
Saagar is a HIndu and they have millions of Gods to worship, it is the most chaotic and most populated country on earth.
The prior secular regimes in Iran and Afghanistan were both forcefully installed by Western powers, and neither were functioning electoral democracies. In opposition to the West, the Islamic popular revolution of 1978 overthrew the Shah in Iran, and the Taliban (who the US kicked out in its 2001 invasion) retook Afghanistan in 2021 after American troops left.
When free elections have been held in certain Muslim countries, Islamist parties have indeed won. Just look at the FIS in Algeria and Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, for example. In both these cases, internal military forces allied with western powers intervened to eliminate the elected parties (who were fundamentalist Muslims supported by the people). The reality is, in many Muslim majority countries, Islamists are highly likely to come to power should free and fair elections be held.
I don’t think that Sagar is an expert on Islam or the Islamic world, but I think that that statement is justifiable and does not come from mere bias.
Also, with respect to burkas being more of a cultural phenomenon than a religious one, it is true that there is ample disagreement whether or not full body coverings for women is required in Islam. What the vast majority of Islamic scholars agree on is that the covering of the hair and bosom of women with a garment is fardh (a religious requirement) - this is supported by several verses from both the Quran and Ahadith and upheld by all four madhabs (schools of Islamic jurisprudence).
@@ivandubeau9683 the biggest parties in Iran during the Shah and after, was the secular Mujahedin, the communist Tude and royalist/sem-capitalist. the islamic party var a fringe one, and had low support. So no, dont mix up Iranians with arabs. Iranians are not islamic, majority would vote non islamic party if free elections would be held.
Time and again Saagar is proving that he is Modi Ka Parivar.
The only one that seems to actually get irrationally irritated here is Krystal, which cannot comprehend the idea that recognizing the regressive and patriarchal attitudes prevalent in Muslim countries (both culturally and religiously) doesn't necessitate you coming to racist conclusions about primitiveness or barbarity.
Also, as someone familiar with the Middle East and Islam, I am sorry but most of the points you raised seem to sound like the standard Western liberal cope used to deflect any criticism from homegrown patriarchy and religious fundamentalism that exists in many Muslim countries regardless of Western involvement.
To suggest a country like Afghanistan would naturally elect a secular liberal democracy given the chance, and that the only reason they are today fully controlled by one of the most backwards extreme Islamist puritanical theocracies around the world is because of US meddling, is quite ridiculous.
That's not justify any of the US incredible mishandlings of foreign policy and meddling in the Middle East. But at worst, US engagement assisted in amplifying regressive cultural/religious elements that already existed in that region. But to suggest that something as consequential to Afghanistan today as the Taliban was wholly a result of specifically American design is ridiculous (yes even if we recognize that US militarily backed Mujahedeen in the 1980's).
Saagar keeps talking highly of India, but it has become a Hindu fascist state where Muslims suspected of having beef are being lynched by Hindutva mobs in their houses. And those mobs are protected by the Indian police.
Just like people say "history didn't start on October 7" in the Israel conflict, history didn't start yesterday in the Hindu issues with their Muslim population. Historically, it's hard to deny that Muslims were the aggressors with an ENORMOUS death toll among Hindus. Many Hindus believe that they are simply saying enough is enough.
Totally distorted and biased view, the narrative (that Muslims are being lynched in India) was done by Islamists themselves. The actual unfortunate and tragic numbers are less than 10. All of them were smuggling beef illegally through a state (UP) that has a ban on selling beef. Out of the 200 mil Muslim population in India, a very few unfortunate events happened. Compare that to the international terrorist incidents carried out by Islamists.
An an Indian hindu I completely agree with u brother. There's a massive problem of hindutva promoted by the modi govt rn which states dat only hindus are true indians n muslims, Christians n jews are infiltrators n not seen as equal to indians.
Saagar either is ignorant to this or biased to India
@@jeetsule7846lies I bet you support israfail too, are you aware what the gorras and Britain did to India, they just divided you against your brown brothers and sisters and now y'all are just indoctrinated tools for them, after THEY enslaved and killed hundreds of millions of Hindus 😥
@@jeetsule7846it's the truth.Its all on video
People acting like this is new ! He has been saying this for literal decades.. he used to sell shirts that said “atheist for Jesus” because he believed Jesus was a decent dude if he ever existed
I don’t think it’s debatable that Jesus existed
literally ret*rded
@dt8799 A lot of people are unaware of that. The consensus among historians are that Jesus of Nazareth did exist, even though there are some outliers that disagree.
jesus did exist...
prove it.@@barnsnoble3105
Not all ideas and values are equal.
We should probably determine who's ideas and values are best and make sure everyone else's ideas and values are suppressed.
@@GMUTaylor6 Do we have to suppress? How about we use critical thinking and choose?
Yup, secularism demonstrably greater than religion.
Neither are the instruments used to arrive at such a conclusion.
@@brentbigford7307yes secularism gives you the right to practice your religion it's far better than Islam
Crystal and Saagar. Two non-religious people debating the merits of the comments of an atheist on which religion is better….not sure why this is meaningful conversation to them or anyone else really.
Brilliant comment.
Here's why it has merit. While having no religious ties to any particular faith or affiliation, they provide an objective view on such. For example: prof. says Islam is bad. I've never experienced it as bad.
Simple.
@rafaelw8115 then you simply don't know much about Islam
@@rafaelw8115 😂😂 "contrary to you" since you have noooo idea what I read, strong stance to take 😂😂
I'm just muslim myself, but I don't read it 😂
My stance remains, you truly know NOTHING regardless of your claims, you proved it through your comment.
@@rafaelw8115 interesting also that you mention France as to how the world sees how Muslims are treated there. I'd be mad, too
He’s referring to Enlightenment values that shaped the Western world, not “Christian” values.
Enlightenment values came from Christianity. Historian Tom Holland On How Christianity Has Shaped Western Morality: ruclips.net/video/458Bz1GPto0/видео.html
Funny, Saagar brings up casteist India as an example of egalitarianism.
Maybe he knows more about India than you?
@@dmodeus I have lived in India all my life as opposed to him ffs!
@@sharif1306 okay, India sucks for many reasons. But here in South there's no caste based issues. Maybe you are in North India where caste is used in Politics. Saagar probably came to South India, - Telengana, since his fam is Telugu.
My request is to try to avoid generalizing a vast country.
Caste system is corruption of Hindu Varna Jati ashram system. India isn't casteist. BJP(Hindu party) made Modi, Murmu, Ramnath Kovind PMs and Presidents who are Shudras..
@@dmodeus I'm in Telangana too. Caste is still the no 1 factor in political calculations even in south. There's just no getting around it.
And that's just one flavor. In other places you may have regionalism, colorism, veg vs non veg discrimination, or along religious lines, etc. The list is endless. 😅
Slow news day? Dawkins has said this continuously for the last 50+ years.
You do realize how palatable an opinion is can change as time marches on…
He's been consistently saying it for decades, but it went viral through social media so some people learned this about him for the first time in 2024.
@@neoneherefrom5836 yes
I honestly never knew until just now. It's kind of gross to learn about
@rafaelw8115 Dawkins is a clown and hasn't been right about anything ever. He's very embarrassing that even in the UK people cringe whenever he starts bleating on. Hence why he went to the US, for attention.
People here saying “give them a Bible,” have you ever really read THE BIBLE??? Like, seriously, have you??? Clearly you haven’t.
I have, and that is why I'm an atheist. The laws in the Bible are horrific. And even in the Gospels, Jesus talks about thought crimes. There is good and evil in every religion.
Have you ever read the qoran? I don't like any relegion but don't pretend these are even close to being equal. One is far superior then the other
"I still have many things to say to you,but you are not able to bear them now.But when the spirit of truth has arrived,he will teach the whole truth to you.For he will not be speaking from himself.Instead,whatever he will hear,he will speak.And he will announce to you the things that are to come."
John (16:12-13)
The old testament is text book genocide. The Quran is tame in comparison.
Yes I have and I am a Christian. But i won't deny that there is a lot of bad stuff in it that I don't agree with or understand.
Krystal: “there’s literally not a single ill in today’s world that cannot be blamed on the West and thereby excused.”
Thank you. She is thisclose to exactly that: "not a single ill..." I get the same impression from Roger Waters these days. I love him as an artist, a musician. I want so much to respect them both but their "the U.S. ruined everything" mantra is just dumb.
The problem on any side is the extremists and those who follow them despite seeing the truth of their extremist ideas.
That is left mindset always someone else fault we dont push shariah law, all the dictatorship in mid east would be fine and free. Smh
Yo. What did Kanye west do now?
Moral of the story: Living under a theocracy is never good.
@Tom-gl6ry tell that to the nuns.
@@Bamboo4U2 Tell that to the altar boys.
And it's either theocracy or tyranny for anything but Christianity, which is exactly Dawkins point. Something KB has a hard time accepting because "mUh n4RR4Tive"
A Buddhist theocracy might be fine compared to the alternatives
@Tom-gl6ry because, by virtue of their gender, they're second-class citizens.
Well hold on Krystal he never said that any religion had a monopoly on evil. He said the opposite, he pointed to Christianity’s shortcomings.
Indeed, Krystal is conflating the argument that some religions are more violent than others with the argument that only one religion is violent.
@@notnotkevinjohn Iraq, Vietnam, Palestine, Cambodia, and many more. "Cultural Christians" are in no place to lecture me about violence.
Krystal loves to paint with a very broad brush.
@joeblackxo so True. Islamophobia is openly taught and accepted in Christian and Jewish nations.
Dawkins said "Christians are fundamentally decent" which is ironic seeing Christians are supporting the Genocide of Muslims en masse but not the other way around.
The pessimist sees the thorns, while the optimist sees the Flower.
The realist sees the plant competing with its neighbors to soak up as much water and sun as it possibly can.
@@alexbaum2204yeh and those of us who know love learned to share
@@user-ex5nn2qb2r those of us who understood symbiotic relationships learned to share as well.
So Krystal identifies more as a Muslim. Got it.
Explains a lot about her views on Hamas and Palestinians
Yes. Muhammad had also slaves and her ancestors, too. Commonality.
As a Palestinian American I have to ask why you think this is going to piss us off in particular? Historically Palestinians were on the less religious side among the Arab world. The desperation and hopelessness imposed by the occupation has changed that to some degree, particularly in Gaza, but it’s not like Palestinians are the most zealous Muslims in the world.
well they should be, secularism has failed the Palestinians in every way possible.
@@inversebrah Lmao how?! Yes, blame secularism and not the raging anti-Semitism that ironically spearheaded the Zionist movement.
Or the Evangelical extremists who insist on supporting Israel no matter what so that Jesus can return and begin the Rapture.
Because people that have never faced a challenge just to survive, have time to worry about unimportant issues.
Also before the West decided to intrude in the Middle east via Israel, Palestinians lived with Semitic Jews, Muslims and Christians without any bother. it seems that the "holy" Christians came and crated a never ending bloodbath.
Base612, thanks for your comment. I'm in the same boat, was called terrorist for a decade after 9/11 and now all this hate then they ask why we struggle fitting in. But thank God I have some real Christian friends now
Saagar. I was born in a majority Muslim country, almost 80%. We don’t have any issues like that. This is like that CNN interview with Reza Aslan a few years back. The most religious Muslim parts of the world do not represent the rest of us. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. They have had multiple female heads of state. We in the U.S of A have had zero in 240 plus years. Stop generalizing. Please stop equating us with the likes of ISIS.
morocco and turkey and many other he thinks gulf represent the Muslim world
saudi the biggest exporter of Wahhabism and Salafism is the biggest ally of west, creation of israel and western powers aggressive policies led to the foundation of many extremist groups
Indonesia is a scary place. They have crazy conservative Muslim factions within them and terrorists there. GTFO
I lived in Morocco for 3 years, I met a lot of nice people but don't want any of that as a part of my country. No thanks. Cops in front of church to keep Moroccans from coming in, No. @@ayoub8109
Try eating during Ramadan in front of the "believers". In Indonesia there is a fine for this and a jail time. Even your air force was used to wake up people for Suhur (a meal before the sunrise).
Saagar has to push hate on Islam. In the Bible and the Torah are against homosexuality, multiple wives as well and the treatment of women is not equal at all. If you know the Koren you would know that women is very respected and have rights that Jews or Christians don’t. Muslim countries have women leading unlike the USA. I really can’t stand Saagar’s ignorance.
You're the only one ignorant here.
To suggest Muslim women have more rights than Christians or Jews these days is ridiculous. What a joke.
And btw, the prevalence of polygamy in old testament and jews of ancient times is irrelevant considering Christianity basically outlawed polygamy at its very beginning and enforced that monogamy pretty much universally for almost 2000 years.
Jews have also largely abandoned polygamy since the middle ages.
Muahmmad also discriminated other religions and Muslims support him. Does Muhammad also push hate? Do you see your hypocrisy?
You either criticize both Saagar and Muhammad or nobody. The bible says clearly that men and women are equal in the new testament. And the quran clearly discriminates women. For example they inherit less, so they are less valuable. You have no clue about these texts.
to secular liberals it is always "extremism" when religious people actually follow their religion
Because it usually is extreme. Especially the fundamentalist brand
Nonsense. People can feel free to worship whatever they want. Be it their sportscar, idol or religion so long as they don't demand that others acede to their wishes, or that others are forced to follow it or claim it is the truth when there is zero factual evidence to back up the existence of any deity or deities. Islam unfortunately contains tracts which namely boil down to converting and if that fails killing infidels. Which is why it's the most dangerous religion.
uh not sh*t. religion is literally based on lies.
@@OnePrideRideOrDie "In Leviticus 24:16 the punishment for blasphemy is death. In Jewish law the only form of blasphemy which is punishable by death is blaspheming the name of the Lord." totally not extreme at all. nope nothing to see here folks. just some normal not fascist at all jewdeo christianity
@brentoncarter4275 leviticus is the old testament, that's Judaism not Christianity, Jesus established a new covenant with mankind
When Dawkins says he identifies with Christianity culturally, he means the Christian culture of WHITE EUROPEANS. Dawkins certainly doesn't identify with the Christian culture of Ethiopia or Angola or the Philippines.
Okay? He's a white European that grew up around white Europeans.
whats wrong with that?
because there is not anything similar in Islam world. Tell me any famous atheists that can have conferences in Islam countries
They are the same culture...
he grew up in africa
Sagar is oppressed because he’s obliged to wear a formal suit to work that covers his whole body and a tie that obstructs his breathing . while Krystal doesn’t have to!
😂 quite right…Saagar just needs a head cover to complete his “burqa”.
Saagar's ancestors were victim of islamic slavery and oppression in india. So that's there.
@@user-te7yt3wu3k I'd pay to see that.
Wow! That's a actually a good point brother. Never thought it this way. But saagar can wear anything he wants outside his office but women in Iran can't.
They have to wear it everywhere outside their homes.
Suits suck and are oppressive, this is true. But its his choice to wear it.
Its amazing that in Islam, women had the power to vote, inherit properties, own businesses and much more, a thousand years before women in the US. Islamic countries have elected fame presidents decades ago while the US still has to achieve this. Burkas are not Islamic, another issue like this is the confusion between culture and religion.
Burka is not cultural but religious. Iran is culturally not an Arabic country but mandates Burka because of Islamic theocracy. Pick up a quran, read the hadiths and you'll learn for yourself what entails in those texts.
Christianity is likely to have similar texts but Christians don't believe in it. You can be a soft Christian. In Islam, you have to believe in scriptures end to end and cannot disbelieve in any of them. If you do, you aren't a Muslim anymore.
@@neilshah9600 burka is cultural… the Quran says to ‘dress modestly’ for both men and women. If a woman tries to cover her face or wear a Burka on the Hadj, she is not allowed… because it is not part of the religion. As for not being a Muslim, again the Quran says only Allah (god) and the person knows what is in their heart… it is against the teachings of Islam to say someone is not a Muslim. The Hadith says both men and women must dress modestly
@@matter68
You're misrepresenting the situation.
Burka/niqab are not explicitly commanded by Muhammad in the hadiths, but to claim they're some cultural phenomenon completely seperate from the religion as if it was some alien innovation is completely disingenuous.
First, some scholars do suggest it or encourage it, however much some would consider them fundamentalist.
Second, one can't ignore the plethora of other oppressive and repressive attitudes and policies towards women in Islam and muslim societies, that have the logical feedback loop of encouraging further excess of fundamentalism in taking the "safe bet" of fully covering, because gender situation is already so segregated and how dangerous it still is in many regions to lead an independent and free lifestyle as a woman.
Also, how is some anecdotal instances of electing women in recent decades any relevant? Forget for a moment that even the opportunity to those elections and democratic systems were brought about thanks to the West, in the pre-modern world there was almost NEVER an instance of a female ruler in traditionally Islamic lands. The ruler was almost always a male dynastic monarch who almost universally wed himself to multiple if not tens to hundreds of wives and concubines.
Muhammad made discriminating laws against other religions and women and he also had slaves and he has written those laws in the quran. So I doubt that was his intention. What Islam does and what Muhammad taught are two different things. Islam stand for peace but Muahmmad was not peaceful.
@@matter68 Women inherit less than men that is sexist. They have less value than men. You have a lot of contradicting laws in the quran because it is a false religon. You have also other laws discriminate other people.
“…Saying any religion has a monopoly…”.. Krystal that is quite literally not what’s happening.
it is tho
She's a leftist. She'll defend any religion as long as it's not Christianity.
@@OnTOPtheROOFIts not tho. They played the clip and he didn’t even imply that at all.
Krystal has been comprised by Kyle.
she didnt say that😂😂
Saagar’s last point is exactly the counter to his own narrative: how is it that the Muslim Brorherhood legitimate (right-wing) government was booted out by the US and the Egyptian army, but Netanyahu’s right-wing government is tolerated. To this day the US supports the Egyptian dictatorship through arms and aid
So?
he had no idea about Islam but he rode the wave of Islamophobia because it's acceptable in the West
@@butragenjo007 so??? they know that an arab country led by a real democracy will eventually start a war with Israel, that is why islamophobia is so acceptable in the West its not a coincidence.
and it looks like u are riding the wave with him and his ignorance with zero media knowledge about Islam just like what they want u to see, say what, said alternative media
Exactly, Sagar seemed completely ignorant of these facts.
@@Trealone170 LOL, when you don't want to hear something and you have no arguments it's Islamophobia. Sorry it's not phobic pointing out the barbarism and intolerance of Islam, it's scriptures, it's laws, it's prophet and attitudes of the nations and many of the people that subscribe to it, and how we just don't want that here.
white is right, west is best.
~some indian guy
You know when an Indian guy says that he has a fetish for white women
Atheist who has read all of the major religious texts here....the old testament is super harsh compared to the new testament, but the Quran is in another league completely.
You read the whole quran?
@@OK75 I mean, yes. At least if he's being truthful, then yes, he said he has read all the major religious texts.
@@travisray2934 well, first of all i have to be sure. Second if it was the translation and which. Because i doubt that the quran is on another level, and he means clearly in a negative way, compared to specifically the o&n Testament.
You are just two searches away from comparing rights of lets say women in the bible and the quran. I highly doubt you read the quran but just got verses presented not from your own research. And if you did a miserable job.
Specially about innocent people and how to deal with them or that a grapst just has to pay some silver shekels and not divorcing his v....
Krystal. Can't offer a critique of Christians that occurred in her lifetime.
Saagar. Doesn't know what a "theocracy" is.
Krystal fell in love with Islam, recently. Saager is looking to make this channel profitable for himself and trying things out.
You're wrong on both accounts. I'm sure Krystal knows how Bush Jr. cited some Biblical myth to a french diplomat regarding the rationale behind the invasion of Iraq, how the bible-verses inscribed on American weapons used in the middle-east. Saagar could probably delineate his position better if he wasn't busy frantically rephrasing his thought in fairly simple terms in order weather any criticism he can think of instead of elaborating, which is an unfortunate habit he has. Though I tend to disagree with Saagar most of all, I find it frustrating he's never allotted sufficient time to properly elucidate his politics, and reflexively reiterates that there's 'no time to get into all of that'.
@@TheGruvu oh yeah forgot about that important fact. That changes everything!
Christians are taking away women's rights in America. There are still segregated churches in the south.
Why must it be restricted to her lifetime? Christianity is a couple of thousand years old. History is bloody long. Why point to a specifically small period of time?
It's not even about religion, and its about human nature, holding beliefs dogmatically, and how easily ppl become violent. People were very violent and repressive in the USSR and China also, and they were very secular. It's about how in-groups squash out-groups.
But there is definitely a trend with Islam though, clearly, a very violent trend.
In the us here too. Kkk. Lynching. Even recently. We were blatantly Russophobic and straight up racist. As far as Islamophobia, it’s ingrained in us and we honestly think like Dawkins and think that’s ok. We’re just ignorant a lot.
This I think is the true danger of capitalism: The larger the gap between those who carry out the decisions vs. The ones who make them, the more the whole project seems worthless.
The future belongs to the ones who cooperate best
Exactly, people tend to use religious criticism as a batting ram when they should focus on human nature.
It's like if a person who identifies with any of the LGBT+ if they commit a crime, is it because of the group or the individual, unless it is directly known that what the group stands for.
This goes for religion, politics, races, nationality, sports teams, area post codes & even atheism as though they did not believe in a god or a higher being they still commit crimes based on what they believe in (eg social justice) etc
Sagar is misrepresenting Islam. Muslim don't mind you criticize their true religion,. Go to British & American reverts Saajid Lipham, Ben igra, the Deen Show, Muslim lantern, hamza den, Jordan M,, Joram van Klaveren, Arnoud Van Doorn (ex far right Dutch politicians).
Muslim women reverts Lauren Booth ( British prime minister Tony Blair’s sister in law), Yvonne Ridley( journalist who was captured by Taliban ),
Its interesting that Dawkins would make such a statement linking himself to Christianity because what he's refering to is his preference to live in a Western style democracy which was formed mainly as the western societies started to move away from religion and Christianity and more towards secularism. I'm surprised that he thinks that Christianity is linked to Western style securalist democratic societies in this way, its actually the opposite.
That is actually very a good point. The question is then if you give Christianity back all the power now would they behave fundamentally better than Islam?
Think of western style democracy as the mature outcome of a reforming christian society. Roots..
@@qilinwang5889 doubt it. History tends to repear itself. I think the 3 ibrahimic religions can all be used for evil when institutionalized.
Sagar talks about women's rights then unironically segways to India, as if it isn't the worst place in the world for a woman to visit 😂
He’s clearly biased lol
I find it interesting that I’m no longer bothered or offended by people’s opinion. It is exactly just that…just their opinion. I like when people expose themselves for who they really are, the good, the bad and the ugly. Maybe they can learn and grow from the dialogue or at least others will. If someone is antisemitic or Islamophobic or whatever I rather know that than pretend it doesn’t exist. Muslims, Christians and Jews and other faiths should hold confidence in their beliefs. As long as people are treated equally I don’t care what others have to say. The beauty of this world is we don’t have to entertain people we dislike or don’t agree with
Sahih Muslim states: "Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it." حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْعَزِيزِ، - يَعْنِي الدَّرَاوَرْدِيَّ - عَنْ سُهَيْلٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ " لاَ تَبْدَءُوا الْيَهُودَ وَلاَ النَّصَارَى بِالسَّلاَمِ فَإِذَا لَقِيتُمْ أَحَدَهُمْ فِي طَرِيقٍ فَاضْطَرُّوهُ إِلَى أَضْيَقِهِ " .
It amazes me how some people is concerned of what women wear and ignore the massacre of millions of people.
*concerned of what MEN MAKE women wear
@@skaaaaaaa
Like the fashion industry?
Strip bars etc ?
@jummah... false equivalency. Women are free to do whatever they want with their bodies.. even if it's a social ill. That's how live and let live works, bud
@@skaaaaaaa
Oh so ...if someone wants to fo anything to minors... live and let live according to you or is there a limit, who decides that limit, society of that time, like the ancients in Europe and young boys?
@@skaaaaaaa
Faster growing religion by conversion. 3 out of 5 of them are women, why is that?
I'll leave my faith when you show me evidence of islam saying men and not God tells women to be modestly dressed.
come on Krystal, you guys literally played Dawkins' words and then characterized them precisely how he didnt say them....
Krystal never found a problem that wasn’t because of the West
Both Krystal and Saagar are missing the point that Dawkins is talking about what it says in the text of Islam. He is not talking about which group committed what historical atrocities or even what life looks like in most majority Muslim countries right not though he did say he is happier to live in a Christian country.
The text of Christianity can be much worse than Islam. It is a loosing argument.
Which country is christian? What exactly is "christian" about them?
@@JTR253Totally irrelevant. My point is about what Dawkins said and how Krystal and Saagar couldn't even get that right before debating.
Islam sees itself as continuation of these two religions & many thing that you find in Christianity & Judaism are also in Islam.
And where he doesnt mischaracterize he generalizes
I've been an atheist/agnostic longer than either Krystal or Saagar have been alive. I've read Dawkins, and for awhile was under the "leadership" of his foundation after, with his foundation, essentially took over the Center for Inquiry. His arrogance in that merger led to the departure or sacking of a lot of good people, and many of us from CFI left. His foundation is very top-down, doesn't want local chapters, especially ones with paid staff, and I'm not unhappy with parting ways with them. He can be more than a bit of an ass and full of himself.
Wow! Interesting to hear an insider’s view
The irony of calling others full of themselves while writing the most arrogant know it all comment
If pisslam is so peaceful, why do we have to be constantly reminded of it?
@@porter9494 because in order for the west to create their hegemonic influence over the Muslim world its required to demonise the culture of the people of that region as being savage
Interesting, but that doesn't alter the validity of any arguments he might be making, of course.
India is becoming a religiously intolerant and fanatic state, with rampant discrimination and violence against Muslims highlighting severe human rights abuses. In this context, Sagar’s focus on Muslims becoming more religious and their internal debates over divorce laws, rather than addressing the broader intolerance, suggests a bias likely rooted in prejudiced influences inherited from his background. Additionally, he expresses disdain for Qatar, yet paradoxically lauds India's religiously fanatic government. This hypocrisy ignores the fact that millions of Hindu Indians migrate to Qatar in search of a better livelihood, a reality that starkly contrasts with his glorification of India, which fails to provide the basics for its citizens, yet somehow is portrayed as superior and on the same level as Japan? Simply outrageous. He is catering to a Western audience that is not informed of these details, which makes his approach blatantly disingenuous. But the nature of the internet means maintaining hypocrisy is challenging, especially with a significant Muslim viewership attracted by his channel's commendable coverage of Palestine and the work by Krystal. I, and likely many others, find Sagar's covert racism deeply unsettling.
Well said! Just to add Sagar talks about living in Qatar and seeing women in burqas walking behind the man. How did he know these women were married to this man. It could be a brother or a relative. Islam doesn't have a law for women to wear burqas. Islam says a woman should wear modest clothes and cover their hair with hijab. Burqas is cultural traditions in some minority Muslim communities and so what if they wear burqas? Live and let live! people can practice their believes and customs as they wish! Similarly Amish people in the states have their own traditions and communities and don't fit into the main stream American culture. 95% of muslim women don't wear burqas and most muslim countries have diverse types of people including westerners who live there and are respected and accepted.
Correct Sagar is acting duplicitous and deceptive. He fails to mention the Hindu extremism and terrorism of India. Human rights group have said there is genocide watch in India against Muslims.
Well said indeed. His Islamophobic, biased coverage of majority Muslims nations is frankly disgusting as it what he believes the rightwing want to hear & burnishes his American credentials at the same time.🤷🏾♂️
India has been surrounded on both ends by Islamic countries that have Islam as state religion and the minority population have been historically decimated. India constitutionally is still a secular country where Muslim minority population is growing .
India has its issues in protecting minority rights but it’s no where near the issues of same in virtually any Muslim majority country .
@@shikharsrivastava3558 yeah no Muslim country has rape as it’s main pastime. You literally have no idea what your talking about 🤣🤣🤦🏽♂️. British carved up the region & stole 45 trillion, and forced the displacement of millions along religious and sectarian lines. Furthermore they forced repeated famines, Churchill said “ I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
The fact that Krystal thinks that Dawkins has a huge blind spot and then proceeds to make the most obvious and predictable false equivalency argument about how both religions have done harm merely shows that she's never heard Dawkins (or Sam Harris or Hitchens) lay out a wealth of information and documentation on the unique perils of Islam. I suggest anyone who is further interested in this topic check out their in-depth writings and lectures on the matter.
I’ve viewed their material and its devoid of evidence. it follows basic assumptive ideas that are falsely attributed to the islamic doctrine. You’ve got to understand, we have 1.8 BILLION muslims that are almost half of them are somewhat devout. The natural inclination to guilt any wrongdoing that happens between those 1.8 billion people on islam is false, imagine if we did the same for christian countries? we are talking about a number of different cultures and races with different economical situations. To have islam as a scapegoat only hurts the religion which many people care about. those who dont care about islam or refuse to see the good in it find that getting rid of it is a net zero or plus… in their minds its not a minus.
Hilarious. Rather than rely on the interpretations by Dawkins, Harris, or Hitchens, read the books (Bible, Quran) back-to-back yourself. Make a column of passages that endorse humanism/charity/respect for women and another that supports authoritarianism/violence/misogyny. Contrast and compare. The Bible is much longer but on the whole if you do this fairly, you'll find no difference. Read the one column and see the utopian society that could emerge on the basis of either text. Read the other and it sounds like hell on earth to me based on either religious doctrine. Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens cherry pick these texts to support their white, European perspectives.
they are not islamic scholars and btw Hitchens wa anti zionist
More and more Caucasian Americans are accepting Islam despite media propaganda of violent radical Islam, how Islam oppresses women etc. I wonder why.
Is there a new testament in the Quaran where after the introduction of Muhammad the Muslim and non Muslim are brought together? Jesus came for both Jew and Gentile, and basically rewrote the laws, of which the greatest commandment was ro love one another, seconded by forgiveness. Is there a comparable teaching of Muhammad?
Dawkins has been saying this for 30 years
He literally has not tho. He has clearly stated that he would eradicate all religions if he could. Are we supposed to have selective memory now?? Taking both sides of an argument ensures you will always be right. Also he is the most to blame for the decline in Christianity in the UK. Now he wants to cry about Christianity decline. He is just a two faced liar.
@@wadeday8706 Although he does not believe in any religion, he was been very specific saying that Islam is a "great evil" for years.
@@wadeday8706 I don’t think he was crying about Christianities decline. He would be happy with the eradication of religion for sure. He also points out that some religions are worse than others. I’ve been listening to Dawkins for years and this interview doesn’t surprise the least bit. Maybe you haven’t been paying attention. But I assure you he has reiterated these points 100 times.
@@wadeday8706 RUclips does not allow links. But if you simply search “Dawkins all religion equally bad” you’ll find a clip of him saying essentially the same thing.
Yes, he's been a bigot for years.
Imagine if US didn't interfere in Afghanistan & Iran at various times.
They would still be in the same place look at other Muslim countries that we hadn't interfed in ot pre interference they were headed where they are already.
@@alavasquez6969 wrong, countries like Indonesia and Malaysia are majority muslim but way more stable. You’re nuts if you think literally millions being eliminated had no effect on development.
@@alavasquez6969just because we didn’t interfere directly doesn’t mean we didn’t have a hand in it we have always used other to do our dirty work look at Ukraine we are waging a fight with Russia through Ukraine
@@alavasquez6969 imagine a western country going to african and middle and south asian countries, stealing their resources, killing its civillians and having the audacity to say its headed where its headed. Atrocious and dont get me started on Queen Elizabeth that had her jewellery stolen from Afrian countries or the British Museum.
@@billusher2265way more stable?? Have you been to Malaysia? It is very strict and “oppressive” in a western sense.
Saagar is desperately ignorant about Middle-East geopolitics post-WWII and before the War on Terror
I agree. Saagar often discusses issues with reference to his own personal experience. Is world history taught in American schools as part of primary or secondary curriculum? This is not intended to offend. I'm genuinely curious. I've noticed that even educated Americans fail to situate or understand their particular area of expertise in larger historical contexts that might be illuminating.
@@user-yt5if1ex4w It is but often very little between the end of WWII and the fall of the Berlin Wall. I spent more time learning about China 2000 years ago. And unless students have a rare history teacher, US-backed coups and dictatorships are never brought up.
It's truly incredible to witness Krystal's naivety on this issue. She's totally clueless.
Its funny when you hear these "geniuses" talk about subjects other than their field of expertise and you realize how ordinary and ignorant they really are.
You mean journalists.
Yes, they are all like you and I.
Everyone is dumb outside their domain.
@seunosewa let's not fellate anyone, including scientists. We can all be pretty dumb. If you think Jordan Peterson is not... well...
Yes. Let’s have two atheists talk about religion
Correction. Let’s have 2 atheists talk about another atheist talking about religion
Are you aware that atheists are more knowledgeable about religions that religious people? Look it up
And? Theists have been talking with theists about heathens for 2000 years.
So only religious people can talk about religion? Maybe think next time before you say stupid things.
But why not? It was an interesting discussion
Oh god you lot are way behind we did this in 2006 😂😂😂
Thank you!
They're so 2000 and late 😅
💯
Next thing will be 'Christians did some pretty nasty stuff back in the day'
I'm trying to figure out where the controversy is..
sagaar so appalled by the fact that some adult women consent into being 2nd or 3rd wife of a man in other cultures but doesn't know in american culture open relations with consenting adults is a thing? cmon bro.
That is 1 thing let's hear you justify the brutal oppression in Muslim ran dictatorship but I bet America is the real oppressive 1
Do they consent to being beaten if not covered or do they consent to not drive car or go to parks in Afghanistan do they consent to get stoned for adultery lol
since when was consent a thing in Islam? And consent can be manipulated by religious indoctrination , taboo.
@@anbang4531consent is very important in islam even the intention before preceding
idk. since islamic principles we first practiced?
let go of those stereotypes and go read. look up how marriage contract is formed islam. @@anbang4531
Krystal is out to lunch here. Yes, religious fundamentalism exists in all faiths, but to act like the proportion of fundamentalists and the manifestation of that fundamentalism is equal across all faiths is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard!
Man some of you really are a bit slow in the head.
When did muslim terrorism come into play ? Answer that for me. Did it exist before USs foreign policy came and destroyed multiple countries ? If Islam is an issue we would find it to be the case all throughout history.
Explain this to me if you are no smart. When violent Christian kicked out jews from Spain and muslims took and protected jews. If a muslims back then said the exact same thing you said would it be correct? Please don’t run and answer.
Muslim scholars were creating new fields in math and science while Christian were burning women at stake because they thought they were witches. The only crazy thing you’re hearing is the moron in your head telling you any religious fundamentalism is superior to another.
You're out to lunch. Some American states have stricter abortion laws than Saudi Arabia. Americans are SO clueless about the world.
She's not saying it's the same. For a Christian nationalist to say Islam hates the lgbtq community is hilariously hypocritical!
You should hear what she said again because you’re missing an important point she made. The amount and intensity of fundamentalism in Islam is directly related to the economic and military intervention of Christian countries in Muslim ones. That is a historically consistent view. The West has nourished Muslim fundamentalism and profited from it.
Saagar fails to understand that Western countries didn't change their attitude towards women and gays because of 'judeo-christian' values, but because of liberalization/secularization (the opposite of anything related to religion). Christians stopped observing their religion leading to these developments. So, no. It's not "I'd rather live in a christian country than in a muslim country." What Saagar is saying, is "I'd rather live in a secular/godless society than a religious country." Because in doctrine, christianity, judaism and islam don't differ that much in their view of women, gays, etc.
What you fail to understand is that secularization and liberalization is very much a hidden potential in the New Testament itself. As for the position of women it is very different in Christianity and I don't understand how people don't get that. It's almost too obvious. And btw I am not a Christian (now).
You should reread those books
Really so tell me what allowed liberalization and secularization to come about? Without human beings considered equal by God in the Bible there is no revelation of equality under the law. Greeks thought slavery was natural. Chinese people forced women to bind their feet and still don't tolerate gays, also openly racist case in point the Star Wars poster that removed Fin. The Arabs were on the right track in the eighth century when they were all about scientific discovery but they never made it al the way and really just passed the baton over to Europeans. MLK used to Christianity to Drive his message home. And no I'm not a Bible thumping evangelist, what you wrote is basically the perspective you've get in a crappy high school history class.
True.
@@DanOath1You should reread them yourself as well. but actually read them dont pick the parts you want to read.
great discussion
Serious question: what does a "nation based on Judeo-Christian values" mean? Especially when one says that the nation is not theocratic, and the values keep changing over the years.
One of the few debates i agree with saagar more than krystal. The amount of Christians who are fundamentalists and actually interpret the bible literally is far less than present day islam. Christianity may have been the most dangerous religion during the middle ages but its not today.
really? have u been living in a cave? Missed the Genocide in Gaza financed and supported by evangelical Christians.
wait? last time I checked evangelical christian were funding the genocide in gaza.
What makes you say that? Christianity didn't spend 1400 years invading Europe, Islam did. The reformation was pretty brutal but that was a much a political dispute as a religious one and most involved Christians killing each other
@johnpurdum8127 while Islam yes, did invade Europe (and stayed permanently in Bosnia, Albania, Thrace, and stayed as a large minority in Russia), Christianity invaded the *world* from 1492 forward. Very few parts of the earth escaped European Christian rule, and *no* part escaped its influence.
Can you say that about Islam?
It is the Christian crusaders in your congress and senate that are running the show my dear, only this time they are in suits instead of dresses and they use bombs and bullets instead of blades and arrows. Israhell is a by proxy crusader project of the Christian west .
Krystal: Yes, Dawkins is right about all these things… but he’s still wrong!
Lol
Krystal has no idea what Islam is and what is and is not considered as extreme in that religion.
The cringe 14 year old atheist phase is a universal experience. It's worse when you see someone in their late 20s going through it.
14 year old atheists are cring because they are 14 year olds, not because they are atheists.
ive often wonder why humans use religion to rationalize selfish, savage killing.
how do secular humans rationalize selfish, savage killing?
Well..if humans would use religion to rationalize they would not selfishly and savagely kill. 'Thou shall not kill' is pretty much ingrained in the Bible.
@inversebrah how and why are two different things. You don't need religion to do so but religion does make it easier in some refarda
Remind me, why did the Iraq war happen again?
no actually secularism makes killing much easier, because it frees you from constraints and the fear of eternal accountability@@hopeintruth5119
Krystal is just talking out of sentiment and ideology. She doesn’t actually know what she’s talking about. Her both-siding the issue shows her complete and total ignorance about Islam.
If the Bible is taken literally, you would be horrified by the results. It's a good thing we don't allow the craziest Christians to dictate our laws. All fairytales are dangerous in the right hands and Christianity is no different.
If you ever read the Bible, Torah, Quran they are almost identical! You just have to read thou !
@@kamelt6391that’s not true, they may mention the same people but they’re not identical
Crystal is so focused on Gazza that she cannot see anything else any statement any argument gravitates towards Gaza and Gaza only
All she talks about
Good Discussion!!
They assume that liberal/ atheist morality is more superior than religious morality but what they are basing that on ?
literally on nothing.
European cultures which date back to the Greeks, Romans, and tribes of northern Europe. Christianity has also had an impact, but it it's nowhere near the absolute source of all morality that Christians want us to believe it is. People's moral values come from culture as a whole which itself is the result of what humans innately feel as a species and what we realize is necessary to live in a society that provides for our happiness - with order and justice and manners etc - with various random bits mixed in that are more arbitrary and superficial like which hand gestures you use to greet or insult someone.
You should also ask where religions get their moral ideas from. Much of it is based on the same things - practical need and observing what keeps order. Unfortunately one of the thigns that makes religions dangerous though is that they are dictated by a single person (like Muhammad) or small group (like the priestly class in ancient Israel/Judea) which leads to rather warped extreme positions and personal tastes becoming moral doctrine for an entire society.
Well, what are you basing religious morality on? Fear of getting roasted forever in the afterlife? Atheist morality comes from agreed upon values between humans that can be reached with logic and reason. The Golden Rule is a famous one.
Atheists, especially in the west are like trust fund babies that turn socialist expounding on the virtues of socialism and communism all while mom and dad pay for their ivy league education, their condo off campus and their BMW that they drive to school everyday after their stop at Erewhon market for their Hailey Beiber shake. Atheists take for granted the Judeo-Christian value system that has been a part of western culture for a millennia. The whole idea of justice (setting things aright) is a biblical concept and not one that Marx came up with.
@@gromhellscream4487 Countries with the largest atheist populations are the very countries aiding this genocide in gaza. Its not about what you say but what you can do and what you can stop from happening with your reason. Why do you lot pretend that you have a monopoly over reason and logic?
Krystal, Dawkins isn't out here saying Christianity is the good faith. He is saying which one is worse of the 2.
No Dawkins said he believe "christianity is fundamentally good". Aka Dawkins just likes White people.
The Bible is much more violent than the Koran, there are academic books written on this topic.
and he is wrong on that and it's easy to disprove him based on research on the topic.
She was short of material today.
@@JeromeMorrow-ri2ztlol go to the one you think is better than
Great discussion and great points by both
Saagar: "Dawkins HAS SAID FOR A LONG TIME that he subscribes to Judeo Christian values, but not to the actual text of the Bible itself..."
Krystal: "...you're an atheist now you're like, this is my tribe, like, like alright buddy, you're just making a full right turn now.... "
Krystal: "...who has like been like smearing Islam, and by extension, ALL followers of that faith for a while......like... "
Dawkins (LITERALLY from the clip they played a moment earlier) : "I'm not talking about individual Muslims, who of course are quite different, but the Doctrine of Islam itself....etc"
Krystal: "If you're a serious intellectual....";
Moments earlier....Krystal: "There's a little bit of commentary on the Cultural...Christian..........Thiiiiing...."
If only Dawkins would aspire to reach Krystal's level of intellect, then he would realize that learning the subject matter, the reading, the attainment of actual knowledge of the material is pointless. Rambling on wokefully is where it's at. 🤦🤦♂🤦♀
You can tell Krystal hasn’t familiarized herself with Dawkins’ work before making her critiques
She doesn't familiarize herself with anything.
I can tell Saagar hadn’t either, anyone who does so sufficiently realizes just how much intellectual sophistry the old man engages in
he’s a fool.
Krystal is correct 💯 She exposed him
She pretwnds to be a mindless atheist.
Do you know the polling data of non extremist Muslim countries like Indonesia and what they think should be the penalty for apostacy?
what did america do to apostates/traitors americans with their drone strikes?
Why not ask the question of American or British Muslims who have grown up in these countries?
I'm a practicing Muslim me in totally against it, as are so many of my friends.
@@BrRizzy1don’t get guilted into abandoning things prescribed in your religion. Every country in the world has similar laws against treason.
@@sabartransportation4456did you really just call apostacy treason? Thats so incradibly d.umb
It’s obvious from this conversation that neither Krystal or Saagar have read both the Bible and the Quran. Otherwise they wouldn’t be drawing such easy comparisons of the two faiths.
To believe that a modern day Cristian theocracy would compare to one of the existing Muslim theocracies in the Middle East today is the most delusional thing I’ve ever heard.
Both Krystal and Saagar missed the mark on this one.
This segment is a great example of how intelligent and thorough critical thinker Krystal is and how exactly the opposite Sagar is. He just uncovered his Hindu nationalist agenda
Does Krystal really think Islamic theocracies exist due to US foreign policy? And if it weren't for US foreign policy, Islamic theocracies would cease to exist? 😂😂😂
They'd get even worse
They probably wouldn't exist. America has propped up Saudi Arabia for ever. Iran was far more secular until America intervened.
Iranian theocracy exist because of America intervention genius
@@userre85 that’s why you live in fear and your women don’t go out at night alone, ever
She just didnt expand on her point very well.
There was a secular socialist movement in the Arab world that peaked the 60s & 70s that naturally aligned itself with communism. Of course at the peak of the cold war America was very concerned with the red wave and propped up regimes and ideologies that countered this secular movement, aka ones with a more religious conservative ideology, which served as the root of many extremist movements later on, or in some cases (Shah of Iran) their intervention and attempts to install puppet leaders have lead to the opposite reaction.
Very easy to look this up and read about it. her point isnt completely wrong she just didnt explain it well.
Saagar: Lucky we are declining as a Christian nation lol
19:30 Saagar realized they were having 2 different conversations.
Have Dawkins or Sam Harris ever commented on the Talmud?
I wonder under which religion Krystal would prefer
If all religions are equal, then every answer to any moral question is equal.
Exactly not all religions are the same
Islam will not change billion years from now. That's against evolution
@@hopeintruth5119neither are cultures or behaviours
that is correct.
A lot of Western law, including English law was heavily influenced by Islamic law. Hence "Cannon Law" from Arabic "Qanun", the word for "law".
Also a lot of the Torah commentary was written on Arabic by Arabic speaking Jews in Iberia, the Maghreb and Egypt because unlike Europe they were free to do so. Many of these writers such as Maimonides were influenced by their Muslim peers
People don't define religions accurately. Religion is deeming something worthy of worship and then worshiping it. Krystal, your relationship with Leftism/Progressivism is a religion to you. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism are religions but so are Climatism, Wokism, Transgenderism. These things are also elevated to worship status. And criticism and dissension are not acceptable.
According to international law, the oppressed can fight back without being labeled terrorists.
Convenient
Also, according to common sense.
Yeah they showed those people in the Kibbutzs. They were just so threatening by uhhhh living?
kibbutzes are colonial and military outposts, no peace on occupied land@@MrPapageorgio
@@MrPapageorgio ah yes the talking point of history beginning 6 months ago. literally nothing happened before oct 7. real big brain energy.
Well, Germany was culturally Christian, of course, but the Holocaust wasn't committed by "Christians". Hitler was an atheist, and the Nazi state was as well.
And they did so with the full blessing of The Pope.
The Nazi party was publicly endorsed by the Catholic Church. In fact, one of Hitler's first moves to secure power was making an alliance with the Catholic Church, and most Nazis were Catholic. Nazi pledges of allegiance to Hitler were made in God's name and every Nazi soldier wore a belt buckle engraved with "Gott Mit Uns" which means "God is with us". What atheist state is going to equip their soldiers with a belt buckle like that? What atheist state has a close and public alliance with the Church like that? I suggest you educate yourself further before repeating such statements.
Hitler specifically appointed Anti Christian Irreligious Athiests to Nazi Leadership. He despised Christianity and sought its demise.
Nothing you say is even remotely true.
Hitler publicly and privately espoused belief in God. There is no evidence at all that he was an atheist.
Krystal just can’t wrap her head around that not everyone wants a western style government.
If you grew up female, you would understand why.
I don’t know what you mean by that necessarily. So I guess in a way it’s mysterious of you.
Oh wow ,that reminds me of the time on Bill marher when Ben afleck asked sam Harris "if he was someone who was familiar with the doctrine of Islam?"
Sagaar's interpretation is rather silly, acting like US imperialism has no impact on people's lives. It's a very simple connection: The US is (rightfully) seen as a force of evil in that part of the world and any resistance to US imperialism is welcomed with open arms. It just so happens that the people who resist US imperialism most (at least in rhetoric) are some of the more fanatical groups. If you create that window for anyone, then after years of dealing with puppet governments, of course they'll fall into the arms of extremists.
To be fair; the US is merely continuing a tradition that was started by Britain and France. The infamous Islamic brotherhood was founded as a response to marginalization and anti-colonialism(British, specifically) , and the west has exclusively reinforced radical hanbali school doctrines rather than any healthy or productive approach to modernization.
@@TheGruvu You're exactly right...
If the West stopped interfered and let these countries function normally, within 1 or 2 generations, they'd transition towards freer governments with greater respect for human-rights and women's rights etc.
The United States is not responsible for the backwardness of that part of the world. You are delusional. Many of the most backward parts of the Islamic world have never been attacked by the US. The Islamic world is largely responsible for it’s own problems and until that is comprehended by the people living there they will not progress.
So then it's white people's fault and their destiny to have other cultures religion take root in their society and nations? What are you saying? Is everyone not white just a domino that white people set up and knock down at leisure and they have no agency in their lives and their actions?
So muslim extremism didn't exist prior to the formation of the US? lol
It’s hilarious watching Americans discuss Islam. Krystal is as bad when she isn’t informed on a topic as she is great on subjects she knows about…
Go into the middle of the Vatican and say there is no God and then do so in Mecca, write down the difference
You obviously don't know the history. Many of the people moved to america because they were religiously prosecuted in england. Let's not forget about the Jews and how they were treated in Europe. Don't kid yourself. The west right now is mostly secular. They just celebrate Christmas. And go to church, but I'll beat you. Many of them have sex before even marriage. Not to the Bible also says woman should cover their hair. So this is not just the islam thing.
@HolyAlric lol The liberal isn't in the West. It's a new phenomenon. It wasn't not long ago that the church control. Everything and many people were prosecuted and were killed. Wasn't Galileo burned alive by the church? The West now is secular because of the horrible team. The church did back then. And the islam countries are going through the same thing. Like Iran is becoming more secular because of how the theocracy is rolling over them.
@@HolyAlricin the 21st century, but a few hundred years ago, at the height of Christianity’s power and influence?
@@HolyAlric
Actually you can go to Meca and say I don't believe in God.
Also it is not good comparison.
Because the vatican in it self is in completely defendant situation than an islamic nation that conceder islam the bass of it is culture and rules.
Also, Islam gave women an independent legal status from almost 1400.
Women did not deserve any Inheritance until the 18th or the 19th century in the westren world.
. . . When you don't understand the argument people naturally shift it to their level of understanding. Which is ehy it seems as if they are talking about two different things
There’s no such thing as a secular society
Haven’t listened to it, but I bet Krystal makes it about Gaza..
lol 😂
Seriously.... 90% of the show is them dogging on Israel no matter what the subject is. It's getting tiring, I just skip anything remotely related to it now. We already know they stand as terrorist sympathizers you can't believe what they say on the subject just as much as those on the other side. It's not reporting free from bias therefore it's useless to listen to.
Krystal - the genocide hater...
"let's ignore the genocide which the jews are committing and evangelical christians are financing so we can blindly vilify muslims instead"
😵 who would’ve thunk it 😂
So Krystal...it's Americas fault that they mutalate female genetals in Afghanistan?? That's just a stupid take.
Thats not a real thing
Christianity does the same thing in Africa, it's a cultural thing not religious.
@@inversebrah Where ? Religion is part of a culture . Again where are Christians doing that?
They do not do that in Afghanistan, where did you hear that from?
She is that stupid
According to Rev Robin Griffith-Jones' reaearch English common law has its origins in islamic law
I say any person that feels the need to bad mouth a religion is himself "not a decent person"
There is a difference between badmouthing a religion for no reason and drawing rightful attention to the horrors that its adherents caused. Many people have religious trauma, it’s why you g people are becoming more and more secular, as we should for an evolved future. Nothing good will ever come for the human race if we keep killing each other and creating chaos ‘because our God told us to’
Hey Krystal… wear that outfit in a Christian country… then wear it in a Muslim country. Let us know how that goes lol
Obviously you’ve never been to clubs in the Middle East. You think they all wear burkas? If you party in Beirut or Dubai you might think you are in Miami Beach.
Stop watching Fox News and travel a bit around the world.
@@Base612 "If you're shocked by a woman being arrested after reporting gang-r*pe in Dubai, you should know how common these cases are"
@Base612 let them expose their own ignorance
@@Base612when the last time you went to Beirut!!
I feel Krystal just wants to complain to complain. 😂
She's on her third husband and she failed in her bid when she ran for Congress.
I don't think her life went quite the way she planned.
Im sure her good looks, independent career, and millions of dollars gives her the strength to carry on.
That’s because you’re totally right. She is so unreasonable.
She fully supports population replacement
She is a rich white liberal, so that tracks
Watch comedian Rami Youssef segment (Why Do They Make Her Wear That).
Thank you Krystal the world needs more honest speaking courageous people like you. Saagar mentioned 200 million muslims have suddenly become more observant in India could it be anything do with the fact india which was a very secular country has become very nationalistic under a right wing prime minister with a questionable ideology who is repeatedly using the divide and rule tactic to stay in power.
Well said 👏🏾 & ditto ✊🏾.
Krystal is making a common mistake interpreting Dawkins view. He said, over and over that he disagrees with the doctrine of Islam. Not the people. The doctoring of Islam is not consistent with western values and the region is not able to separate religious belief and how people live. The separation of religion and state. The religion is the state.
Krystal can't have that conversation because, and I'm speculating here, she subscribes to the intersectional worldview which divides people into the oppressors and the oppressed. She's identified Islam as the religion of the oppressed, so she can't acknowledge the inherent tension between Islamic values and her own egalitarian values. After all, doing so will force her to go against the oppressed and thus invalidates her worldview.
But so are the doctrines of Christianity. What's the difference?
@@truthseeker-nv6ny The difference is that original Christianity is in clearly in favour of the separation of religion and state. Yes, from time to time the pope had political power but this is clearly against what is written in the damn book!
With islam that is not a bug. It's a feature.
@@dirtyharry1881 it is upto interpretation. There clearly have been many Christians who interpreted the bible where they argued church and state should not be separated. Both historically and even today. You'd find them specially in Christian communities outside of the west
If the doctrine of Islam is not compatible with western values then neither are the doctrines of Judaism and Christianity.Moreover the Quran does not explicitly call for the establishment of a theocracy.
It's intellectually lazy to think that all religions are the same.
Have to say I have a new respect for Saagar based on his connection to Dawkins. And painfully I see a new wall of prejudice in myself - but it's all good. ✌Thanks for this segment, you guys have always been good.
Ths was rough to watch ebcause Krystal is just not hearing the argument because she doesn't want to. She keeps talking about I wouldn't want to live under fundamentalist Christianity. BUT GUESS WHAT? We don't!@ But people CURRENTLY under theocratic Islamic nations DO!. She is matching a theoretical with a NOW reality. Islam doesn't have a monopoly on fundamentalism but for 2024 they are the ones putting in action in current day reality. We have to deal with the remnants here with abortion but on every ballot it gets struck down. its on the way out. Sagaar is saying that's fundamentalist Islam is on the RISE. Thats why its an issue. I have not seen Krystal so stuck in a belief in a while. Guess we found the blind spot? Actually that is it! instead of whats on your radar from Rising, Whats in the "blind spot" for the monologues. its been weid not having a name those those still.