Regarding Jon Snow thinking that it is R'hllor that brings him back: if it happens the way that Robert theorizes (which I think is possible), I think that what will actually happen is that Jon (in Ghost) will see them burning his body and realize that if they burn his body he might be stuck in Ghost forever. So he will go back to his own body - maybe not even on purpose (because his body is full of holes and lacking a lot of blood), but maybe out of panic at the thought of himself never being human again. That said, Jon warging back to his own damaged body will not heal it. And it is likely that, without some kind of extreme healing, he will simply die if someone doesn't make him into a wight. So it is possible that Jon will re-animate his body, only to start dying again, at which point Melisandre makes him a fire wight.
In one of the live-streams someone said we know when u have a great answer or interest in the question the glasses come off and a great explanation comes after and it’s so true. When the glasses come off u go into these questions with great in depth explanations and we can see ur love for these books and the show when it was good lol but that’s why I love ur channel. Ur passion brings this stuff alive. Thank u
Robert! You're such a prolific content creator! It's been taking me awhile, but I'm finally caught up with all of your videos. I'm loving your History & Lore series! Thank you. They're lovely to listen to whilst I"m working and performing taxonomy. Take care, cheers!
Well, when you think about flood stories, they don't have to have a common source. Civilization grew around rivers and rivers flood. In fact, the annual floods on the Nile is what helped make the soil nearby fertile. Some years the floods are really bad and those will be remembered in stories and tales. The idea of someone escaping on a vessel of some sort is also a natural extension. While there can be a common root, it can also be that humans react to similar events in similar ways.
The grear flood myths of The Epic of Gilgamesh and The Bible feature almost all of humanity being destroyed by a great flood except for one man and his family who were told by god to stop everything and build a boat of specific dimensions to save humanity and all animals on earth, then once the storm ended released birds every day until one found land ... and you don’t think that’s connected? The Israelites just happened to live in the same area as the ancient Sumerians who wrote the Epic, interacted with the Babylonians who had the Epic, but never saw it and developed their exact same myth all on their own? Come on. Side note, they also copied the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve too.
Excellent as always Robert , this one absolutely flew by. Thoroughly enjoyed the conceptual pivot for this livestream , the prominent Houses and main characters will always get their due and we will surely come back to them but branching out into the religions of Westeros and Essos for the next few weeks as well as other concepts is quite welcome. This was a great deep dive and discussion into the Faith of R'hllor and I look forward to exploring the other in universe religions with their associated magic or lack there of in the upcoming livestreams. Well done highlighting the dualistic nature of R'hllorism here which often is overlooked , as that faith is not simply fiery fanaticism , sure that is part of it but there is the whole Great Other / associated concepts within the faith of R'hllor (even if considered the dark evil half of things). And as brought up in the stream , though not specifically stated by GRRM I do believe R'hllorism likely started in Asshai , for Azor Ahai which is a Long Night event legend from Asshai (other areas have their own regional variants of this tale) being such a central concept in the R'hllor faith and doctrine to me points to the fact that the worship of R'hllor most likely began in Asshai. And I also agree with the idea that the religions of Westeros and Essos likely emerged from a given magic that a given group rallied around and was in awe of not only as an explanatory and reconciliatory attempt but an outreach expression of those different magics as well. Per Melisandre in the stream though i do not think she is the child of of Bloodraven and / or SS ending up as a slave but I would not rule it out that she has Westerosi origins. Mel has the mark of the old gods / Weirwoods in appearance & coloration and very well could have been a young girl taken into slavery from north of the Wall to Essos , perhaps straight to Asshai. She may likely have some of that Old gods magical blood which could explain her magical predisposition and why she is so adept at various types of magic. Not saying 100% but I would not rule it out either. Great stream Robert , look forward to seeing what role the Faith of R'hllor and associated characters within that faith play in the books' endgame as well as hopefully getting a bit more clarity and information from GRRM about that religion in the remaining ASoIaF novels. Looking forward to exploring the other Planetos religions in the upcoming livestreams.
@@sophiawilson8696 , in my comment i said "i do NOT think she is the child of Bloodraven and / or SS" , so that is a not moot point here as i am not claiming she is. Likely with her extremely old age i think that easily rules that out. Ntm even if the timeline somehow matched up , which it very likely does not why would a child of BR with or without SS as the mother end up a s slave. indicate theoriesMelsupposedlyyoungsomewhatpossibleextremely
Hello Robert love all of your work as always man, was wondering since you're reading through fire & blood would you be willing to do a video about Unwin Peake & the conspiracies he was involved in.
Regrettably, I have missed all the recent streams live. So busy with work that I can't stay up late enough!! xD Really miss the live experience, but I always catch up later over the weekend. I am so delighted that I have discussions of the religions of the WoIaF to look forward to! Thank you, Robert!
I really love your videos! However I had a lot of trouble with this one because it's one of the few that did not have any subtitles. I have a hearing impairment so unless the text is on I'm not able to understand what's being said, and I had been looking forward to watching this for the past couple days. I really would have loved to watch this in its entirety.
I think "at a high level" should be Robert's official catch phrase. It's one of his go to preparatory statements and it perfectly sums up his approach to analysing media.
If Stannis defeats the Boltons which seems very possible in the books, then I think it's likely Jon will be resurrected before Stannis dies. At which point Melissandre will likely begin to believe Jon is Azore Ahai while Stannis is alive. In which case I suspect Mel's change in allegiance will be a significant factor in Stannis' demise. Probably Shireen's too. 😞
What if azor ahai and the last hero are two separate people one ice and one fire and happen simultaneously and Danny is azor ahai and Jon is the last hero
The show did reveal a few post ADOD nuggets, like R+L=J. Another nugget was when Kinvara asked Varys "would you like to know what the voice in the flames said"? Whether the Red God was involved or has just has the power to gain insight into it, I think this is a clue to the connection, not made clear in the books
Omg I totally had the same theory about Jon’s resurrection! I wonder if it will also reveal his Targaryen blood line. Perhaps he’s a dragon like Daenerys
Jon has kingsblood, cold stark firstman blood & most likey hot valarian dragonblood, he is likely to be burned while frozen on ice wall by a red priestess. Triple Ice & Fire, with tons of magic. If they wait with the burning till Jenye is there with Mance, we got a singer that knows every bardly song but hasn't written one himself.
not sure how poutine came up but im posting from the original land of poutine( Quebec, aka, the land of always winter, where it’s is only considered real poutine if the cheese is fresh curd and goes ´sqweek’ and the potatoes must be fresh fries from real potatoes the jury is still out on the gravy but everyone has a strong popinion. either way, whats up with winds of winte? rhought
They believe she is, she is the one when it comes to the books, the magic is strong in this one, she will have much impact on the books, more then pity penis magic and spider web tales, for euniques and false kings are not of interest when all comes to all, lets hope the nights watch will "burn" in cold and the rest of the country finally feel the real long night (and not just the long see fare, by the jester , patchface)
Hey Robert, thanks for that awesome livestream! Sadly I couldn`t watch it due to my timezone but maybe you're reading this. Do you think there is any chance that the three red priests we know are going to each side with a different "Targaryan" in the end as in Jon-Melisandre, Daenarys-Moquoro and Young Griff-Thoros? I think that would be an interesting thing considering there are also three Dragons. Since Bran seems to be King in the end that could be a way to get rid of all three possible candidates for the throne as well as the three dragons. Either against the others or against each other (as we know GRRM loves dragons fighting each other).
As a personal analysis of the Lord of Light and the Great Other are part of a single natural event: fire, as knowledge and life, shadow as the unknown and cold. Death, winter, snow and ice are their enemies. It's the classic black and white understanding of the world. If you put fire over the extreme heat of weather and magic the children are in the middle and the cold ones are a variation of the watery magic.
As far as who torched Varys' bits I'd say the show implies it's not a worshiper of R'hollor, but a worshiper of the "Great Other" from the same faith. Which I'd think is likely. Think about it. In the christian faith the devil has no power to create but great abilities to corrupt. JRR Tolkein took that imagery and used it as many fantasy authors have and I am pretty confident George Martin has done that as well. Think of it the White Walkers/others seem to be almost a corruption of life. They can possess and use corpses for their work. So using fire for a sacrifice is likely a part of worshipping the "Great Other" from the faith of R'hollor.
It’s HIGHLY unlikely that john’s spirit can go back into a body that isn’t animated. There are far better wargs than him that never went back into their bodies and it has been clear that they can’t go to a dead body and live. His body will have to be reanimated first before his spirit goes back to it.
Question for anyone: I'm still on the first book, and having a hard time getting into it. Is it just me? Do the books get better? Will I be confused since they don't follow the show? Just curious.
Stefan Babel 1 second ago the first book was tough for me because it mirrored the show so closely so i felt like i was retreading ground from the show. keep reading
@@stefanbabel6713 Yes! That's the problem I'm having! I've started listening to the audio version while I'm cleaning and stuff, and it seems to help with the boredom. Thanks for replying, I appreciate it.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Love how Robert starts every live stream staring soulfully into the camera.
For real 😀🙃😊
I've always thought Robert is super handsome.
Hands where we can see 'em.
I love this change from "Am I live?" To "Oh yeah" and then he starts smiling :D
Man, this was a good stream. This is by far my favorite channel and one that I never miss an episode of.
When the glasses come off you know a knowledge bomb is coming
No bots allowed
Regarding Jon Snow thinking that it is R'hllor that brings him back: if it happens the way that Robert theorizes (which I think is possible), I think that what will actually happen is that Jon (in Ghost) will see them burning his body and realize that if they burn his body he might be stuck in Ghost forever. So he will go back to his own body - maybe not even on purpose (because his body is full of holes and lacking a lot of blood), but maybe out of panic at the thought of himself never being human again. That said, Jon warging back to his own damaged body will not heal it. And it is likely that, without some kind of extreme healing, he will simply die if someone doesn't make him into a wight. So it is possible that Jon will re-animate his body, only to start dying again, at which point Melisandre makes him a fire wight.
In one of the live-streams someone said we know when u have a great answer or interest in the question the glasses come off and a great explanation comes after and it’s so true. When the glasses come off u go into these questions with great in depth explanations and we can see ur love for these books and the show when it was good lol but that’s why I love ur channel. Ur passion brings this stuff alive. Thank u
Robert! You're such a prolific content creator! It's been taking me awhile, but I'm finally caught up with all of your videos. I'm loving your History & Lore series! Thank you. They're lovely to listen to whilst I"m working and performing taxonomy. Take care, cheers!
Well, when you think about flood stories, they don't have to have a common source. Civilization grew around rivers and rivers flood. In fact, the annual floods on the Nile is what helped make the soil nearby fertile. Some years the floods are really bad and those will be remembered in stories and tales. The idea of someone escaping on a vessel of some sort is also a natural extension. While there can be a common root, it can also be that humans react to similar events in similar ways.
The grear flood myths of The Epic of Gilgamesh and The Bible feature almost all of humanity being destroyed by a great flood except for one man and his family who were told by god to stop everything and build a boat of specific dimensions to save humanity and all animals on earth, then once the storm ended released birds every day until one found land ... and you don’t think that’s connected? The Israelites just happened to live in the same area as the ancient Sumerians who wrote the Epic, interacted with the Babylonians who had the Epic, but never saw it and developed their exact same myth all on their own? Come on.
Side note, they also copied the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve too.
Excellent as always Robert , this one absolutely flew by. Thoroughly enjoyed the conceptual pivot for this livestream , the prominent Houses and main characters will always get their due and we will surely come back to them but branching out into the religions of Westeros and Essos for the next few weeks as well as other concepts is quite welcome. This was a great deep dive and discussion into the Faith of R'hllor and I look forward to exploring the other in universe religions with their associated magic or lack there of in the upcoming livestreams. Well done highlighting the dualistic nature of R'hllorism here which often is overlooked , as that faith is not simply fiery fanaticism , sure that is part of it but there is the whole Great Other / associated concepts within the faith of R'hllor (even if considered the dark evil half of things).
And as brought up in the stream , though not specifically stated by GRRM I do believe R'hllorism likely started in Asshai , for Azor Ahai which is a Long Night event legend from Asshai (other areas have their own regional variants of this tale) being such a central concept in the R'hllor faith and doctrine to me points to the fact that the worship of R'hllor most likely began in Asshai. And I also agree with the idea that the religions of Westeros and Essos likely emerged from a given magic that a given group rallied around and was in awe of not only as an explanatory and reconciliatory attempt but an outreach expression of those different magics as well. Per Melisandre in the stream though i do not think she is the child of of Bloodraven and / or SS ending up as a slave but I would not rule it out that she has Westerosi origins. Mel has the mark of the old gods / Weirwoods in appearance & coloration and very well could have been a young girl taken into slavery from north of the Wall to Essos , perhaps straight to Asshai. She may likely have some of that Old gods magical blood which could explain her magical predisposition and why she is so adept at various types of magic. Not saying 100% but I would not rule it out either.
Great stream Robert , look forward to seeing what role the Faith of R'hllor and associated characters within that faith play in the books' endgame as well as hopefully getting a bit more clarity and information from GRRM about that religion in the remaining ASoIaF novels. Looking forward to exploring the other Planetos religions in the upcoming livestreams.
The Red Woman is not the child of BloodRaven or Seria Seastar. She born either in books version 300 years ago or show version 400 years take you pick.
@@sophiawilson8696 , in my comment i said "i do NOT think she is the child of Bloodraven and / or SS" , so that is a not moot point here as i am not claiming she is. Likely with her extremely old age i think that easily rules that out. Ntm even if the timeline somehow matched up , which it very likely does not why would a child of BR with or without SS as the mother end up a s slave.
indicate
theoriesMelsupposedlyyoungsomewhatpossibleextremely
Amazing video, cheers for the constant top quality content mate.
Missed the livestream but here for the replay. I love your content Robert. Keep up the amazing work! 👍😎
So excited for this stream!
As always a highly interesting and enjoyable live stream! 👍🏻👍🏻
Hello Robert love all of your work as always man, was wondering since you're reading through fire & blood would you be willing to do a video about Unwin Peake & the conspiracies he was involved in.
Regrettably, I have missed all the recent streams live. So busy with work that I can't stay up late enough!! xD Really miss the live experience, but I always catch up later over the weekend. I am so delighted that I have discussions of the religions of the WoIaF to look forward to! Thank you, Robert!
I really love your videos! However I had a lot of trouble with this one because it's one of the few that did not have any subtitles. I have a hearing impairment so unless the text is on I'm not able to understand what's being said, and I had been looking forward to watching this for the past couple days. I really would have loved to watch this in its entirety.
Yeah but look at how long the video is...fuck that dude
You can't use the Closed Caption option?
@@Djynni Usually he has the text, even on the long videos. It wasn't an option this time.
I think "at a high level" should be Robert's official catch phrase. It's one of his go to preparatory statements and it perfectly sums up his approach to analysing media.
If Stannis defeats the Boltons which seems very possible in the books, then I think it's likely Jon will be resurrected before Stannis dies. At which point Melissandre will likely begin to believe Jon is Azore Ahai while Stannis is alive. In which case I suspect Mel's change in allegiance will be a significant factor in Stannis' demise. Probably Shireen's too. 😞
In Deep!
What if azor ahai and the last hero are two separate people one ice and one fire and happen simultaneously and Danny is azor ahai and Jon is the last hero
There a great theory that lightbringer suggest that Azor Ahai and Bloodstone Emperor are the same person.
Drinking game: take a drink each time the guest says “Robert”
The show did reveal a few post ADOD nuggets, like R+L=J. Another nugget was when Kinvara asked Varys "would you like to know what the voice in the flames said"?
Whether the Red God was involved or has just has the power to gain insight into it, I think this is a clue to the connection, not made clear in the books
Omg I totally had the same theory about Jon’s resurrection! I wonder if it will also reveal his Targaryen blood line. Perhaps he’s a dragon like Daenerys
Jon has kingsblood, cold stark firstman blood & most likey hot valarian dragonblood, he is likely to be burned while frozen on ice wall by a red priestess. Triple Ice & Fire, with tons of magic. If they wait with the burning till Jenye is there with Mance, we got a singer that knows every bardly song but hasn't written one himself.
Doesn't Mel thinking from Dragonstone comes Azor Ahai strengthen Dany's claim?
I’ve always wondered what you frame the topics of these live streams around……
not sure how poutine came up but im posting from the original land of poutine( Quebec, aka, the land of always winter, where it’s is only considered real poutine if the cheese is fresh curd and goes ´sqweek’ and the potatoes must be fresh fries from real potatoes the jury is still out on the gravy but everyone has a strong popinion. either way, whats up with winds of winte? rhought
I have a theory: if the 7 are Catholic like faith, what are the lord of light believers? Are they protestants, or are they something else?
The religion of R'hllor is very similar to Zoroastrianism.
I think the point is that the magic is real and around the world various religions grew up around it.
For the night and dark and full of terror
They believe she is, she is the one when it comes to the books, the magic is strong in this one, she will have much impact on the books, more then pity penis magic and spider web tales, for euniques and false kings are not of interest when all comes to all, lets hope the nights watch will "burn" in cold and the rest of the country finally feel the real long night (and not just the long see fare, by the jester , patchface)
Hey Robert, thanks for that awesome livestream! Sadly I couldn`t watch it due to my timezone but maybe you're reading this. Do you think there is any chance that the three red priests we know are going to each side with a different "Targaryan" in the end as in Jon-Melisandre, Daenarys-Moquoro and Young Griff-Thoros? I think that would be an interesting thing considering there are also three Dragons. Since Bran seems to be King in the end that could be a way to get rid of all three possible candidates for the throne as well as the three dragons. Either against the others or against each other (as we know GRRM loves dragons fighting each other).
As a personal analysis of the Lord of Light and the Great Other are part of a single natural event: fire, as knowledge and life, shadow as the unknown and cold. Death, winter, snow and ice are their enemies.
It's the classic black and white understanding of the world. If you put fire over the extreme heat of weather and magic the children are in the middle and the cold ones are a variation of the watery magic.
If George doesn’t finish WoW and DoS soon, maybe Robert should have a go at writing it.
hes playing world of warcraft and divinity original sin? no wonder the books are taking so long
When the zombies eat everybody, what's next? I don't know how this story ends.
As far as who torched Varys' bits I'd say the show implies it's not a worshiper of R'hollor, but a worshiper of the "Great Other" from the same faith. Which I'd think is likely. Think about it. In the christian faith the devil has no power to create but great abilities to corrupt. JRR Tolkein took that imagery and used it as many fantasy authors have and I am pretty confident George Martin has done that as well. Think of it the White Walkers/others seem to be almost a corruption of life. They can possess and use corpses for their work. So using fire for a sacrifice is likely a part of worshipping the "Great Other" from the faith of R'hollor.
Noice !
It’s HIGHLY unlikely that john’s spirit can go back into a body that isn’t animated. There are far better wargs than him that never went back into their bodies and it has been clear that they can’t go to a dead body and live. His body will have to be reanimated first before his spirit goes back to it.
IDG!!!
"Fantastic!", so are you also a fan of the Ninth Doctor? (Christopher Eccleston) 🤣
Question for anyone: I'm still on the first book, and having a hard time getting into it. Is it just me? Do the books get better? Will I be confused since they don't follow the show? Just curious.
Stefan Babel
1 second ago
the first book was tough for me because it mirrored the show so closely so i felt like i was retreading ground from the show. keep reading
@@stefanbabel6713 Yes! That's the problem I'm having! I've started listening to the audio version while I'm cleaning and stuff, and it seems to help with the boredom. Thanks for replying, I appreciate it.
Books and Series are two different animals. I suggest you watch the series 😉 first then the books.
@@sophiawilson8696 Thanks Sophia, that's just what I'm doing. :)
@@cyanide_lollipop3264 also I suggest you listen to audiobooks they are great.
Whatever you do, do NOT try to pronounce ”Rhllor” in Welsh. 😆
The wooden october tellingly surprise because thrill nally shock into a violent mercury. ajar, aback shell