James got 1 out of 3 in Hots seat. Though 33% is a fail in every grade in school, he would have batted a .333 in the majors with 1 out of 3, which is pretty good ask any MLB MVP. Thanks for having James Hudson on.
Fun having James in the mix - cool guy. Like the perspective/insight he brought to the topic. I think it's important that consumers understand these things - it is easy to become jaded on these things and form unrealistic preconceptions.
I thought this was the best episode of Chit Chat yet. I really enjoyed the behind the scenes industry discussion. Really insightful. Thanks for the great work.
This might be the most interesting Chit Chat in a while! As a hopeful designer/publisher one day it was so great to hear about the business side of the hobby.
Not sure is this would fall into a distribution problem, but from a consumer’s perspective it is getting more difficult sometimes to purchase a game before it is sold out. It seems like publisher’s aren’t making enough copies of the hottest games. Of course the publisher has a conundrum - they can’t easily predict how many copies will sell.
Enjoyed the special guest and delving into more meatier topics. Tough questions on the hot seat but I did like. Thanks guys, keep the excellent content going for the rest of 2020.
Distribution is so important and so hard! I have a small business and shipping can be the hardest part to figure in, since my products can have unique shapes. I think it's easy for a customer to see a price point and be discouraged or turn away from a product because of this constant demand in the market for things to have set price point that determines the expectation. Very good look into all the aspects of getting a game to the shelf.
I always love it when you bring James on the show! He always has good insights. Additionally, his ethos is great because the kickstarters he runs are legitimately some of the best kickstarters I've ever backed :)
Great episode. Loved the mini game, love to see more. Always appreciate everyones takes on the different games your discussing, happy to have backed you on KS and look forward to all your content in 2020 !
I've never really thought about board games from a publisher standpoint. This episode offered a great perspective into this. Keep up the great videos and see you guys on the next one.
So neat to hear the behind the scenes convo on business perspective. The viability of a product has got to be so dependent on all kinds of crazy factors....thank you for another great video! p.s. the hot seat was fun
I feel as the consumer, that the problem is discovery. Sometimes I see a great game out, then realize that I missed the kickstarter or the limited release of the game
Always enjoy chit chat and the discussion about the gaming industry. Love the idea of having a guest speaker on every now and then. I like the idea of having a 'hot seat', but didn't like that topic. I would be more interested to hear more interview questions for James and then maybe end it with one quiz question to determine his favorite game of all time.
Very interesting show and discussion on topics that are definitely making the rounds across various media creators. It’s an interesting time in the hobby for sure!
This was a great episode! I loved learning more about the "business side" of the industry. I would imagine that the challenges listed are things that all companies face, but to varying degrees. For example, if I'm a first time publisher, brand awareness is likely the biggest hurdle to overcome. Whereas a more established company needs to be more focused on distribution, projecting demand, etc. Overall, this was a very solid episode and I'd love to see more like this!
Thanks for highlighting the business and production aspect. Here's hoping the complaints and negativity regarding price points for entertainment items (board games) decreases as a spotlight is shown on the designer/publisher/distribution/retailer perspectives of cost.
Great episode! Super interesting to hear about the difficulties of creating a board game. Love the hot seat segment. Looking forward to seeing what else you guys do with it!
What's annoying is that everything is made in China. I hope with the growth of the hobby, we can somehow get some US manufacturing going. It is so frustrating since getting into KS and becoming a superbacker to see how long these projects take and then to have to wait for them to go through production proofs and then schedule time with the factory and then to spend 30 days on the boat then time in customs and then weeks in the distribution facility then a week in the mailing. Sometimes it is a year and a half to get a game you put money on and were excited about. We always have to deal with the ridiculously long Chinese New Year shut down and are always at risk of international tensions, trade wars and tariffs, and currency fluctuations in that time and now a pandemic starting in China. God forbid that spreads and gets worse. We also always have a risk that a ship could go down in a storm with everything on it. I may grow tired of the constant KS delays and then to find the games available at about the same time as KS delivery at heavily discounted prices from the online retailers. Unless you are getting tons of KS exclusives, I see people getting weary of going through this trying process over and over. I may long to block it all out and just focus on what game just came out that I can go get now and start playing instead of the constant waiting and hoping and checking for and wishing for updates or good news.
Very interesting episode! It would be great to share a sample walk-through of a hypothetical $40 MSRP game and see the true component cost of the box and components, the margin the publisher is able to squeeze out as they sell to their distributors, the distributor margin and costs to get the product to retail, and the retail margin between their cost from the distributor and MSRP (assuming they are able to sell it at full price). It's a tight margin business with a lot of stakeholders and risks. Small volumes, shipping costs, and other overhead costs (like paying a designer, keeping lights on in the FLGS) make the business side of our hobby challenging. It gets harder as the market expands to more publishers and titles.
Thanks for the insightful discussion about the industry...money is definitely something that is on my mind a lot recently with all these awesome Kickstarter games coming out Q1 this year!
Kira's top / jacket... omg. Price is tough. Things online are almost always cheaper. I buy a game from my FLGS every time I'm back in that area, just to buy in there and I ALWAYS pay like $25 more than I can get it for online and a lot of people just won't do that. Great video as always guys.
Interesting discussion, learned a lot! I like that the gap between board game business and the consumers/gamers is so small. I can’t think of any other interest of mine where I would enjoy watching a video discussion about viable business practice.
That was some pretty interesting insight into some of the issues that game publishers need to wrestle with, thanks to James Hudson and Kira for sharing their experiences
You guys really make me feel like I have to get my hands on Marvel Champions and Maracaibo. Interesting topic and great having a guest! Really looking forward to more info on Wonderland's War too!
Wow, there were some things I never thought about as all I do is play the games. There is so much more that goes into them before they ever arrive to me.
Similar to what you mentioned back in Chit Chat #33! There is a bubble and with so many games released each year, it is harder and harder to find *different* games. I personally do not like to have games with similar mechanics like 7 Wonder and Sushi Go or Pandemic and Forbidden sky which just complicate things for everybody and competition is definitely a big one. Distribution and *availability* is super difficult, limited number of copies... it is hard to get a game from US in Europe or vice-versa. Hopefully we will start seeing digital components/mats that can be used by multiple games and then you just need "the app". PD: Thank you so much for all the great videos!!!
Again, the thing is, the sheer amount of games being launched each year, every month is just off the charts these days and I don't see this slowing down anytime in the near future... And being a businessman myself, I understand the huge challenges this presents to all the hubs and spokes of the supply chain aspect.
It often is difficult to gauge interest in a board game because even if it seems like the board game community is clamouring for a reprint that second printing may only sell 500 copies. Compared to other entertainment mediums that just doesn't happen as much. Plus, the barrier to entry is much higher on a $45 hobby board game vs a $10 movie or $15 book. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to determine print run sizes
Also, I am a big fanboy of James! Hi! And like this concept of bringing in someone different from the industry for your chit chat episodes... Just adds depth to the conversation
I've been playing Rurik: Dawn of Kiev and Spirit Island this week. I'm excited to see It's A Wonderful World. Only hope I didn't wait too long to get a view and comment in for entry. Hot Seat had a decent first run. Interested to see where else you can take it.
I like the Hot Seat idea and having guests on, so thumbs up on the new segment. Definitely looking to check out Marvel Champions soon with all the love MvM gives it. Good to hear the characters feel very different from one another.
Quite interesting. I do feel like the very wide spread of prices for boardgames can make it confusing for costumers, especially when you start to compare games. Terraforming Mars doesn't have that good component quality, but it's almost the same price as other games that have great components. Then you start to wonder why some games cost as little or as much as they do.
should be a very interesting year. Lot of things happening. Good thing overall is people are desiring good board games and are playing them more. The industry is evolving for sure.
I love, love, LOVE insider talk. Lots of these topics flying around these days, lots of similiar diagnoses. Also, momentum is the answer to all the answers on the Hot Seat, but love the potential. Great stuff guys! edit: Oh! I also hear that Expansions are, by far, the best thing for publishers for KS. Good ability to judge interest, can get lots of attention for expansions (harder than doing original content,) and can ride a good buzz wave. So, again, not totally surprising that expansion + original does gangbusters on KS. That said, KS still an uneven beast, but has it's uses. edit edit: Dangit! Need to wait to end of episode to post. Kara, totally agreed, 2x speed for life, also On Mars was such a hard game to grok, but I am so excited for my 2nd play today. Vital, why do you hurt me so good?
I would’ve assumed cost would be higher. I feel like Kickstarter gives an unrealistic expectation of component/production quality, yet consumers still want a “good” deal.
This is a fascinating discussion. As a gamer, and one who doesn't work in the industry, I'll be honest and say that these details of producing and selling games is something I really don't think about. I wonder if Kickstarter has a negative effect on the retail side of things?
This was quite an interesting discussion, and brought me back to my days majoring in marketing. I think it’s also great for consumers to understand these challenges and costs, as many just look at the components in a box and judge the price (completely overlooking design, development, and all of the factors discussed here). Hot Seat was fun! Wow, Tainted Grail and Nemesis were huge campaigns! I don’t know either one, being more of a euro-gamer. I would happily try either, though! I am quite curious about Wonderland’s War! I have been playing the Queen of Hearts in Disney Villainous. I will definitely check out the Kickstarter. Everyone seems to love Marvel Champions, but I love Lord of the Rings LCG too much to replace it. Thanks for another great video as always! I am curious about Maracaibo, but the complexity of rules intimidates me.
James is always a blast. Thanks guys!
Thank you!
James got 1 out of 3 in Hots seat. Though 33% is a fail in every grade in school, he would have batted a .333 in the majors with 1 out of 3, which is pretty good ask any MLB MVP. Thanks for having James Hudson on.
Yea, my mind got into they are trying to trick me so I out thought myself... :)
Fun having James in the mix - cool guy. Like the perspective/insight he brought to the topic. I think it's important that consumers understand these things - it is easy to become jaded on these things and form unrealistic preconceptions.
Thanks! It was my pleasure to be apart of the show, I am a big Chit Chat fan!
I thought this was the best episode of Chit Chat yet. I really enjoyed the behind the scenes industry discussion. Really insightful. Thanks for the great work.
This might be the most interesting Chit Chat in a while! As a hopeful designer/publisher one day it was so great to hear about the business side of the hobby.
The discussion with folks in the industry is really cool. Neat insights that we can’t get elsewhere. Thank you!
Not sure is this would fall into a distribution problem, but from a consumer’s perspective it is getting more difficult sometimes to purchase a game before it is sold out. It seems like publisher’s aren’t making enough copies of the hottest games. Of course the publisher has a conundrum - they can’t easily predict how many copies will sell.
James is the MAN! I love the time his company takes in making sure that the components and inserts are top notch!
Many thanks! We want to make the best board games that we can!
Another fun episode. Best of luck with Wonderland Wars James H!
Thanks!
Enjoyed the special guest and delving into more meatier topics. Tough questions on the hot seat but I did like. Thanks guys, keep the excellent content going for the rest of 2020.
I really love that box Art for Wonderland's War.
Manny is so talented!
As an avid boardgame consumer this episode really put a bunch of things in perspective. Thanks, MvM.
Distribution is so important and so hard! I have a small business and shipping can be the hardest part to figure in, since my products can have unique shapes. I think it's easy for a customer to see a price point and be discouraged or turn away from a product because of this constant demand in the market for things to have set price point that determines the expectation. Very good look into all the aspects of getting a game to the shelf.
Discussions about the behind the scenes board game industry is always interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I always love it when you bring James on the show! He always has good insights. Additionally, his ethos is great because the kickstarters he runs are legitimately some of the best kickstarters I've ever backed :)
Thanks Jesse! I appreciate that!
Great episode. Loved the mini game, love to see more. Always appreciate everyones takes on the different games your discussing, happy to have backed you on KS and look forward to all your content in 2020 !
I like having the hot seat. Getting a unique take on the industry and games in general is interesting. Thanks for shaking things up.
I've never really thought about board games from a publisher standpoint. This episode offered a great perspective into this. Keep up the great videos and see you guys on the next one.
So neat to hear the behind the scenes convo on business perspective. The viability of a product has got to be so dependent on all kinds of crazy factors....thank you for another great video!
p.s. the hot seat was fun
Great episode, this series keeps getting better and better!
It was very cool to have James on. I’ve always loved his videos.
Thank you!
Thanks for bringing James in. He has a great perspective.
Great episode guys! I love hearing about the industry like this. And it's always a pleasure to see James!
I feel as the consumer, that the problem is discovery. Sometimes I see a great game out, then realize that I missed the kickstarter or the limited release of the game
Yes, or worse, an older game and it is now out of print.
Always enjoy chit chat and the discussion about the gaming industry. Love the idea of having a guest speaker on every now and then. I like the idea of having a 'hot seat', but didn't like that topic. I would be more interested to hear more interview questions for James and then maybe end it with one quiz question to determine his favorite game of all time.
I’m super excited for Tidal blades from Druid city/ skybound.
Very interesting show and discussion on topics that are definitely making the rounds across various media creators. It’s an interesting time in the hobby for sure!
Super interesting content this week, thanks everyone! I like the new segment.
One of your best episodes guys! Thank you!
I like this new fresh take on a chit chat episode. It was fun to hear about somethign different.
Great episode :) Nice to hear a little bit about the behind the scenes and whats happening on the business side of the industry.
This was a great episode! I loved learning more about the "business side" of the industry. I would imagine that the challenges listed are things that all companies face, but to varying degrees. For example, if I'm a first time publisher, brand awareness is likely the biggest hurdle to overcome. Whereas a more established company needs to be more focused on distribution, projecting demand, etc.
Overall, this was a very solid episode and I'd love to see more like this!
Lots of fascinating insights. Love this show. Keep it up.
James= instant buy. Can't wait until February.
Thank you!
Great to see James on the show, I have backed his Tidal Blades game and am really looking forward to it.
Thank you!
Great discussion. The Ludology podcast recently also discussed the state of the industry with Buonocore. Highly recommend listening to it.
Thanks for highlighting the business and production aspect. Here's hoping the complaints and negativity regarding price points for entertainment items (board games) decreases as a spotlight is shown on the designer/publisher/distribution/retailer perspectives of cost.
Great episode! Super interesting to hear about the difficulties of creating a board game. Love the hot seat segment. Looking forward to seeing what else you guys do with it!
What's annoying is that everything is made in China. I hope with the growth of the hobby, we can somehow get some US manufacturing going. It is so frustrating since getting into KS and becoming a superbacker to see how long these projects take and then to have to wait for them to go through production proofs and then schedule time with the factory and then to spend 30 days on the boat then time in customs and then weeks in the distribution facility then a week in the mailing. Sometimes it is a year and a half to get a game you put money on and were excited about. We always have to deal with the ridiculously long Chinese New Year shut down and are always at risk of international tensions, trade wars and tariffs, and currency fluctuations in that time and now a pandemic starting in China. God forbid that spreads and gets worse. We also always have a risk that a ship could go down in a storm with everything on it. I may grow tired of the constant KS delays and then to find the games available at about the same time as KS delivery at heavily discounted prices from the online retailers. Unless you are getting tons of KS exclusives, I see people getting weary of going through this trying process over and over. I may long to block it all out and just focus on what game just came out that I can go get now and start playing instead of the constant waiting and hoping and checking for and wishing for updates or good news.
It was nice to hear more about the business side of things, great work guys
I hope y'all can continue to persevere in this entertainment industry and create more special things going on
I don't know why the leg crossing always amuses me with these videos. So uniform and proper lol
Great episode and discussion! Hope this helps more people realise how thin margins can be for (especially small) publishers.
Love how publishers (mostly) get along and work well together.
Very interesting episode! It would be great to share a sample walk-through of a hypothetical $40 MSRP game and see the true component cost of the box and components, the margin the publisher is able to squeeze out as they sell to their distributors, the distributor margin and costs to get the product to retail, and the retail margin between their cost from the distributor and MSRP (assuming they are able to sell it at full price). It's a tight margin business with a lot of stakeholders and risks. Small volumes, shipping costs, and other overhead costs (like paying a designer, keeping lights on in the FLGS) make the business side of our hobby challenging. It gets harder as the market expands to more publishers and titles.
Thanks for the insightful discussion about the industry...money is definitely something that is on my mind a lot recently with all these awesome Kickstarter games coming out Q1 this year!
Kira's top / jacket... omg. Price is tough. Things online are almost always cheaper. I buy a game from my FLGS every time I'm back in that area, just to buy in there and I ALWAYS pay like $25 more than I can get it for online and a lot of people just won't do that. Great video as always guys.
Interesting discussion, learned a lot! I like that the gap between board game business and the consumers/gamers is so small. I can’t think of any other interest of mine where I would enjoy watching a video discussion about viable business practice.
Loved James' input. Also...can't wait for Wonderland's War! Demoed it at PAX South and loved it.
Thank you for continuing to put out this great show, one of my faves!
Very interesting topic...such a great look behind the curtain of the industry!
I'm surprised competition wasn't higher on the poll. 5,000 new games a year is just way too much
I definitely enjoy some of these behind the scenes of how game companies actually work and some of the challenges they face
That was some pretty interesting insight into some of the issues that game publishers need to wrestle with, thanks to James Hudson and Kira for sharing their experiences
Anytime! I love talking shop!
Cant wait for my MvM copy of Paladins of the West Kingdom from the KS. Vindication is amazing and so is James! Great episode.
Thanks mate!
You guys really make me feel like I have to get my hands on Marvel Champions and Maracaibo. Interesting topic and great having a guest! Really looking forward to more info on Wonderland's War too!
Great episode. I love hearing the perspective from the publishing side. Thanks
Solid episode with really great insight as to the concerns within the 'machine' of our industry. Very informative!
Wow, there were some things I never thought about as all I do is play the games. There is so much more that goes into them before they ever arrive to me.
A LOT! :)
Interesting discussion. Please keep doing topics like this!
Great chit chat!! Enjoyed hearing about the business side of the hobby
Similar to what you mentioned back in Chit Chat #33! There is a bubble and with so many games released each year, it is harder and harder to find *different* games. I personally do not like to have games with similar mechanics like 7 Wonder and Sushi Go or Pandemic and Forbidden sky which just complicate things for everybody and competition is definitely a big one.
Distribution and *availability* is super difficult, limited number of copies... it is hard to get a game from US in Europe or vice-versa. Hopefully we will start seeing digital components/mats that can be used by multiple games and then you just need "the app".
PD: Thank you so much for all the great videos!!!
Again, the thing is, the sheer amount of games being launched each year, every month is just off the charts these days and I don't see this slowing down anytime in the near future... And being a businessman myself, I understand the huge challenges this presents to all the hubs and spokes of the supply chain aspect.
Nice seeing James on here. Definitely recommend checking out "Starting Roll".
Thanks Matt!
This is a fascinating topic. Hope to see more like it.
Love James! Love all MvM! Great episode!
We love you Wes! Thanks for watching!
I really enjoy when you guys have guests!
It often is difficult to gauge interest in a board game because even if it seems like the board game community is clamouring for a reprint that second printing may only sell 500 copies. Compared to other entertainment mediums that just doesn't happen as much. Plus, the barrier to entry is much higher on a $45 hobby board game vs a $10 movie or $15 book. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to determine print run sizes
Also, I am a big fanboy of James! Hi! And like this concept of bringing in someone different from the industry for your chit chat episodes... Just adds depth to the conversation
I am a big fanboy of yours! Thank you for the kind words!
Really great to see an industry guest. Really interesting and engaging conversation.
Awesome show! Thanks for all you do.
Great episode. Learned a lot that I never thought about in the gaming industry.
Cool to see that KS numbers! Great episode as always.
Really interesting conversation. Also fascinating to hear about the business side which doesn’t get discussed often.
I love this series. Thanks for the insight into the struggles.
Great episode! I love learning more about the other side of gaming.
Very interesting topic...thanks for the insights and perspective!
Love your channel and this was a great episode.
That was such an insightful episode about the cost and retailers.
Love to try the new time stories
Great Chit Chat! I liked have a special guest joining!
Thanks for the insight into the distribution logistics of board games.
I've been playing Rurik: Dawn of Kiev and Spirit Island this week.
I'm excited to see It's A Wonderful World. Only hope I didn't wait too long to get a view and comment in for entry.
Hot Seat had a decent first run. Interested to see where else you can take it.
I like the Hot Seat idea and having guests on, so thumbs up on the new segment. Definitely looking to check out Marvel Champions soon with all the love MvM gives it. Good to hear the characters feel very different from one another.
Quite interesting. I do feel like the very wide spread of prices for boardgames can make it confusing for costumers, especially when you start to compare games. Terraforming Mars doesn't have that good component quality, but it's almost the same price as other games that have great components. Then you start to wonder why some games cost as little or as much as they do.
I would say as a consumer the biggest difficulty is marketing. Trying to find the best games among the 1000's of games each year
should be a very interesting year. Lot of things happening. Good thing overall is people are desiring good board games and are playing them more. The industry is evolving for sure.
I love, love, LOVE insider talk. Lots of these topics flying around these days, lots of similiar diagnoses. Also, momentum is the answer to all the answers on the Hot Seat, but love the potential. Great stuff guys!
edit: Oh! I also hear that Expansions are, by far, the best thing for publishers for KS. Good ability to judge interest, can get lots of attention for expansions (harder than doing original content,) and can ride a good buzz wave. So, again, not totally surprising that expansion + original does gangbusters on KS. That said, KS still an uneven beast, but has it's uses.
edit edit: Dangit! Need to wait to end of episode to post. Kara, totally agreed, 2x speed for life, also On Mars was such a hard game to grok, but I am so excited for my 2nd play today. Vital, why do you hurt me so good?
Great topic! Feels like you are pulling back the curtain!!
I have had a borrowed Marvel Champions sitting on my shelf since Christmas but I haven't been able to play it yet.
Interesting topic. Keep up the great work!
So for hot seat, it was always the more recent Kickstarter that had more backers
I was very surprised at all of thoughts that go into the process!
I would’ve assumed cost would be higher. I feel like Kickstarter gives an unrealistic expectation of component/production quality, yet consumers still want a “good” deal.
Can you guys talk more about the retail side of the hobby or board game cafes? Im retiring from military and looking to open a BG cafe.
This is a fascinating discussion. As a gamer, and one who doesn't work in the industry, I'll be honest and say that these details of producing and selling games is something I really don't think about. I wonder if Kickstarter has a negative effect on the retail side of things?
Another interesting episode. I've got to get back into gaming, been on a bushfire enforced hiatus...
Really appreciated Kira's industry insight!
Jenn Bart awesome!!
Kira channeling her inner Sith, with all red shirt and cloak/Jacket/cape.
This was quite an interesting discussion, and brought me back to my days majoring in marketing. I think it’s also great for consumers to understand these challenges and costs, as many just look at the components in a box and judge the price (completely overlooking design, development, and all of the factors discussed here).
Hot Seat was fun! Wow, Tainted Grail and Nemesis were huge campaigns! I don’t know either one, being more of a euro-gamer. I would happily try either, though!
I am quite curious about Wonderland’s War! I have been playing the Queen of Hearts in Disney Villainous. I will definitely check out the Kickstarter.
Everyone seems to love Marvel Champions, but I love Lord of the Rings LCG too much to replace it.
Thanks for another great video as always!
I am curious about Maracaibo, but the complexity of rules intimidates me.
Very interesting conversation. Also Wonderland’s War looks really cool