The truth about the Mitsubishi Triton bent chassis problem | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2020
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I work for an outfit who sell auto accessories to the camping, caravaning, overlanding market. It never stops amazing me the amount of running vehicles and gear to the absolute limit, followed by complete surprise that the gear has then failed. The analogy I like to use when explaining failures to customers is the redline of an engine. The engine is designed to run that high but not full time and if you do you are going to get the old valve tapdance under the bonnet.
You meant: camping, caravaning, overloading market. :)
My wife and I recently joined a group of friends to travel to some pretty remote parts of WA. I used to work out there and know how remote (and potentially dangerous) it can be. So, I spent a lot of time calculating what to bring, where to put it and making sure it was within the vehicle's GCM. We towed an older pop top 'offroad' caravan. I calculated everything (tow bar, the bull bar, the extra spares, extra diesel, spare parts, tools, safety gear, water, food, etc) and I reckon we were just on 1000 kgs under the GCM. A couple of times we stayed in caravan parks, which were overflowing with people and their rigs. I was astounded by the number of brand new 4x4s of all types (not name bashing any of them), and they were invariably towing really big caravans with all the fruit. I am betting that most were loaded well over their GCM. So bending and breaking stuff, I am not surprised. To be fair, I reckon most of the people who were overloaded were the 'unwitting' or benign dickheads you were referring to.
i have found that channel yesterday. now, i have watched 7 episodes in straight line
great job mate! greetings from poland:-)
As always, a great and informative video. As a truck driver of over 30 years, I feel qualified to say that whatever the vehicle, you overload or miss load it often enough, you will break it!
Brought a triton back in 2008 still going strong never broke down once
I have one too! Best vehicle I ever owned, but it is getting some serious mileage on it now.
What engine yous got in them?
I have just bought a 2005 2.8 diesel 250ks on it
John, above all else you have a PhD in common sense. Thanks for continually sharing it with us, shame it’s not actually common. Love your work. Cheers, Phil
Hi John,
I stumbled into this vid of yours, while searching something quite different. I have never commented or voted on a vid.
I think this is incredibly important but very few people are remotely aware of how serious it is to go out in the unforgiving Australian, or dare I say any country's, lonely, remote, life threatening "outback". I have always been aware of the blissful unpreparedness of those who venture out there. [even in snow and ice, you either freeze to death or roast to death]
Particularly interesting was the part of the top loaded 'go for bag and fire extinguisher'. MOST IMPORTANT>>>>>> MOST IMPORTANT.
I would bet after all you said, people will venture out there not well prepared enough.
I have some military background. We patrolled, on foot, from middle NT to middle north WA. I always felt safe as, if we faltered, there was the coms radio to call a chopper to save us (no ground vehicles). There was never a hint of water shortage or fuel; only boot leather.
Sailing some years ago, we got into trouble. I'll say no more except you had not posted this video by then.
I believe these twin cab monsters are poorly designed from the ground up..... even if I do have one.
John, very informative, well researched, well prepared and of cause well presented. I WILL give you a well deserved vote & thumbs up.
Tony
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Just watched this episode and can only say very good explanation of the whys and why nots. Thanks John for the info.
No worries David, thanks.
Interesting and informative. Also a "yes" for the beer garden chat.
Thanks Greg. Will do.
I would like to 2nd the beer garden chat please
+1
@@AutoExpertJC I up-voted assuming 'beer garden' is code for the lovely ladies popping into the video at some point.
@@AutoExpertJC I really need to show this to my father in-law. He has all the gear you could ever imagine plus he carries a slide on camper and tows a reasonably sized caravan. In total he has 4 batteries, two under the bonnet, one in the camper and one in the caravan. He had all this with a Mazda bt50 and recently changed to a Isuzu dmax. Because he thought the bt50 felt under powered haha. I wonder why. He uses both because him and the missis go travelling but he likes to go fishing and she don't. So he will leave her with the caravan and off he goes with the slide on for a night. Crazy fellah.
You're dead on when it comes to preparation some of us are wired to do it well. But always learning to do it better. Very informative episode.
Seeing as you mentioned ARB I feel I can as well. My father in law bought a dual cab when he retired and kept going into ARB and buying more things so he could tour the country at will, getting them to fit the items. Everything from bullbar and so many lights out front to fridge, freezer, battery, water tank, draws, canopy and second set of racks out back with everything else in the middle. I had commented to him a number of times that it looked overloaded but was ignored. He was pulled over for a road side vehicle inspection and was told that he was 5 kg over the gvm (let off), this was with no passengers (wife and 3 dogs) nothing in the fridge, empty water and extra fuel tanks, no tools and spares and no trailer attached. He went to the ARB store he had bought everything and they responded with, that is your vehicle and your responsibility but would you like to buy a gvm upgrade?
ARB is a retailer and fitter of 4X4 parts, not 4X4 engineering consultants. Are you honestly suggesting they are at fault here?
Arb is a trash company that puts profits above all else. I just started with 4wd stuff and I learned that very quickly. Their customer service is non existent so all they did was milk this guy with no care for the lives arb was endangering. While it's good to learn things for yourself some people don't and put their trust in the so called "expert" who will happily let you kill yourself for profits.
@@TheSheriff1989 they at least have to recommend t check the weight
Hmmm buyer beware.ARB don’t give a toss they are, only there to sell to suckers
I've been watching you for years now,interesting article.Can't wait for the (ALL NEW) model in 2022!
Some might argue Hyundai is better than Audi
Hi John. After watching many of your videos, I was persuaded to consider a Triton. Did my research and found some nice examples and sourced some prices. Lined up a list of camping gear and off roading equipment (recovery points, all terrains, inflatable pool and some rubber ducks). Went down to the local dealer to confirm my colour choice and test how they drive... and no way in hell could I drive it. I'm 6'6 with Shoes on and my head sits against the ceiling with the seat at lowest setting. The angle of the windscreen and front portion of the ceiling blocks vision for taller drivers, and putting the seat back isn't an option because the pillar digs in to your Arm.
Us Poor big blokes have to rule out the Triton... now what 🤔
It's always good to hear sensible, informed commentary such as yours...on all things motoring. Kudos for taking so much time to explain and answer a 'listeners' concern so comprehensively with logic and common sense. Have loved your channel for several years. Let's MALS :)
John. The bullbar discussion and detail needs its own video mate. Especially for the retiree Landcruiser and Hilux bogan tradies.
Agreed.
@@AutoExpertJC Im sold on the bullbar bad idea concept. Dont want to be a crash test dummy 6 hours from a truama centre. I have convinced a friend who buying a new cruiser that a bullbar is just a dangerous 3000 dollarydoos antenna/light bar mount as well. A nice beer garden physics type video explaining the concept that I could point to when regurtating your argument would be most helpful.
Another up vote for a bull bar discussion video, my understanding was that as of July 2013 that all bull bars must meet AS 4876.1 - 2002 and vehicles fitted with an airbag or manufactured to comply with Australian Design Rules (ADR) 69 or ADR 73 on Occupant Protection, can only be fitted with a bull bar which has been certified by the vehicle manufacturer as suitable for that vehicle, or has been demonstrated by the bull bar manufacturer to not adversely affect the vehicle's compliance with ADR 69 or ADR 73 or interfere with any critical air bag timing mechanism.at least in South Australia (taken from a DPTI faq sheet). Im curious to know if this is tested by manufacturers (either vehicle manufacturers or aftermarket) or the government transport regulators just run by the manufacturers word that it doesn’t effect the airbag timing. I sort of feel that possible the vehicle manufacturer may have tested it where as aftermarket may not have. It may also explain the hike in cost of bull bars that happened in 2002, as I remember bull bars going up in price from $600 to $1500-$3000 at about that time whilst working for a Toyota dealership. Also aware a lot of Australia Standards are not put into legislated requirement until long after their adoption.
I totally agree on the bull bar dangers, did a bit of trauma science relating to crashes in ambo school all those years ago.
I’m also a little curious as to the actual value add that bull bars have on today’s vehicles, my really basic understanding of airbag triggers in frontal collisions make me think they are little more than a nice looking ornament on the front of a vehicle to hang accessories from. Given the timing system for airbags being so heavily dependent on crumple zones designed into vehicles to increase deceleration time of the impact resulting in less force being put on the occupants at given point in times resulting in reduced injuries (sorry, crude physics understanding), if you bolt a bull bar on the front, it has to actively crumple with the rest of the vehicle to not effect increasing the force load that triggers airbag sensors, because if it increase the force load it effectively triggers the airbag too early either reducing the effectiveness of the airbag or making it dangerous, therefore you might as well not have it, because it and the rest of the vehicle still has to crumple. Basically it’s just a heavier, more expensive and shinny looking panel that you can hang an antenna and a few accessories off of, that increases the repair bill. May also psychologically / subconsciously make people feel a bit safer. Case and point being a friend who hit a large skippy, where the alloy bullbar folded back into the other panels and destroyed them anyhow, not actually providing any extra protection. It actually spat the skippy over the roof of the vehicle and into the path of the vehicle behind them (fortunately no human was injured, skip not so much). As someone who has worked in road crash rescue, adding an item that can potentially increase injury is a really really bad idea. No one wants to see the results of car accidents, it’s very unpleasant and you can’t unsee it unfortunately. Increasing injury whilst in remote areas is amplified further by reduced access to emergency services, potentially increasing the chance of death. I have a NS Pajero with genuine Mitsubishi Bullbar on it and found literature that states it does effect Airbag deployment. It came with the vehicle when I bought it.
Loved this. Reminded me of years ago seeing a lot of early Commodore wagons with the same issue. For a while I thought they didn't hold up in a rear end smack. Then I started to notice there was no damage on these wagons I was seeing. Now I hear what your saying it must have been the same issues. Mum, dad in front and mother in law in the back. Yep that'll do it.
Well said John, love the new format.👍
Thanks Steve.
Installing Airbags ---> Load up the tray ---> Bigassed Caravan ---> Gravel Roads ---> Bent Chassis
That's pretty much the 'how to' plan.
Great summary!
Thanks, John, for your cogent commentary on safety issues in medium duty vehicles on bush road conditions. Be Prepared!
Excellent video mate. Teaching people mechanical sympathy is a tall ask but I think your points are made exceptionally well. I've rattled around the back of Shitsville countless times now in rusted old Pootrols and Landstupids(I own the latter currently) and have encountered my fair share of drama with that but I can categorically say that driver training, slowing the hell down and shedding weight are the kings of surviving most issues the outback will throw at you. Ignorance is most assuredly not bliss with a Bananerised ute and a whole lotta bulldust between you and a very expensive tow truck!
Great video, it’s good to know my spreadsheet of “car and trailer weighs” is not overkill.
100% put me off doing this ever in my life, thanks John!
John, thanks for probably one of the best videos that I have ever seen from you. Very balanced (pun intended) report. (from one engineer to another)
John Cadogan. Bringing science and reason to the internets since 2010.
Hi John, I watch all your shows and admire your knowledge and scientific approach towards the issues you discuss . I find your arrogant ,smart ass attitude entertaining!! However your show on the bent Triton trucks the best . You actually showed some degree of understanding and ,dare I say , empathy ? For people who choose to live a lifestyle not of your approval. Keep up your personal development John !!! And one day you may not only be a source of wisdom but also a " good bloke" oh hell,nothing to get off with doing that. Regards Grant Mathews
One of the best episodes I have watched
A very informative essay, regarding towing ,the land rover defender 90/88” and 110/109 are excellent examples of towing difference. Many say the lwb versions are the most stable but the towball is over a metre behind the axle, the swb models only have 60cms overhang which makes the pendulum effect much less when towing a 3500kg tri axle cow trailer with 3 Friesans on board, trust me. Keep up the good work.
Yes, Dynamic Bannarisnation please (fingers crossed for added MMs').
Excellent topic on the fitment of bull bars, it's my understanding that heavy goods vehicles are not crash tested.
Great vlog John, thanks for sharing.
would love a vid on bending ute chassis.
one of the things i see a fair bit, and is in your pics of broken utes, is people using extended decks (often a king cab deck on a double cab) and then using an extended hitch to get trailer clearance.
really common to see them dragging their arse like its got a case of worms due to the overloading and extra leverage.
I am a long term Triton owner, into my 4th at the moment, the pics you showed are all MN Tritons, the MQ Triton onwards was a complete redesign with beefed up chassis with additional reinforcing at the bend points, longer leaf springs to spread the load (and improve the ride), the only carryover is the door handles I even had to change out my Clearview mirrors. I have a 2600kg van (about 85% of the 3100 tow rating and have not had a problem).
I hit a kangaroo without a bullbar, the plastic front end does absorb a lot of the impact and there is a protection bar behind the grill to protect the internals, just need to carry some gaffer tape to hold the front together so that you can continue the journey
I had to do the wire and tape cob&Co years ago on an VU ss ute trip across nsw to continue on after fox got in way, bloody pests!
Should of got a Hilux.
@@Tony-112 have
@@Tony-112 nah
Well done, John!
Very informative and entertaining as always.
YES to any educational material on the physics of any of this.
A very good description of load and requirements.
Yes for the beer garden chat. With that, also interested to hear how load leveling bars impact the chassis integrity and stress points therein.
This is brilliant, objective and informative. Thank you John.
Thanks for watching.
Another great video John! I had an MSA fridge drop slide in the back of my 79 series cruiser and it was ridiculously heavy (50kgs with the wooden frame i made to raise it to clear the lip of the canopy) to the point where i noticed the vehicle behaved differently, especially the slide being more to one side of the canopy. I ripped it out and now the car drives great again. I think a lot of people don't realise how just 50kgs can have such a great effect on vehicle handling if placed in the wrong spot. I have a bull bar but no winch as i spend a lot of time in the bush and prone to animal strikes (i've had a couple). Like you said advanced driving skill goes a long way so avoiding collisions with other vehicles or trees works just as well as avoiding animals. So the bull bar gets the tick for me. I know blokes that would be replacing their vehicle every month if they didn't have a bull bar fitted from so many animal strikes. I believe bull bars have their place in the right environment and in some environments (like cities) they don't.
By the way, where are the Ming moles champ?
Adding my 2 cents worth about the idea of bull bars. I'm one of these old farts, who in my younger years worked in a industry which had me driving a lot in central Australia, 800,000 kms in 10 years. None of the vehicles I drove had bull bars of any kind. The vehicle was never disabled by a animal strike. I think a lot of it is also the way drivers drive. Modern vehicles are capable of high speed on dirt roads and people drive these road as if they were going to the beach for the day along a well maintained highway. When shit happens on dirt roads at speed nothing will save you except good luck and as you said the safety features built into the vehicle.
You see it all the time, people over loading and driving at high speed on outback roads.
The SMM steel canopy on my D-Max dual cab is listed as 90kg.
Great information John. I weighed my car/camper in various configurations years ago but need to do an update. Buyers' remorse for new bullbar setting in . I much prefer the videos where you slide out of 'condescending mode' and just talk facts.
@rbrdly I agree wholeheartedly.
Yes, i will never get many friends to ever watch another one of his vids, sexest and demeaning attitude. He loses a great potential market by doing so.
Nice to see the studio getting some use.
Beer 👍Garden 👍Physics 👍 Sign me up John
Excellent journalism once again John, thank you. Suggestion, load the old vehicle up and take it down to the local weighbridge for a four corner/total weighing session. The results print out can be truly eye opening.
AT LAST!!! I HAVE FOUND THE ANSWER TO OVERLOADING MY UTE.... TIFFANY!!! 25KG LIGHTER.
Yes john would be interested in the physics of bananarization of the chassis . If there are Ming moles it will be an added bonus 😂 great video as always mate cheers 👍🍻
Great vid you answered all my questions and suspicions about bullbars. And towing is a bonus too.
No worries Patrick.
Very informative video, thank you very much. This was an eye opening discussion and I will be planning the fit out of my tray very differently now.
in the UK bull bars disappeared overnight once the insurance companies decided they invalidated your insurance policy.
@@philgray3443 To be fair, over here the only time you might encounter a kangaroo is if you ram-raided a zoo.
Bull bars have their place in the country with wildlife if you're in the city using it as a fashion statement thinking you're cool ur a moron
@@philgray3443 im more talking about the people that go to the country once per year and go glamping and then ride around on pavement 360 days a year and dont wash their car because mud is a fashion statement. also emergency vehicles defidently need anything that would help them get a patient where they need to go.
@@philgray3443 haha can already exists. Super cheap auto used to sell it and had their own cheaper in house brand of spray on mud right next to it.
Personally never sprayed it on my car but for bogan pissups (and i went to lots) we would take a can or two with us for redecoration puposes, changing the label with airo-gaurd also very funny
I miss the satire but that was outstanding!
@pete smyth Me too. Best video yet.
Why do our safety authorities not analyse the safety of bullbars? It's an excellent point you make John. Surely it's time such analysis were done.
Some really good points, and a few key points to keep in mind, thank you for that. On a side note, a bushtech aluminium canopy (double/dual cab) is 65kg without extras, I found that to be pretty average as far as canopy weight goes
A resounding "YES" from me for the beer garden physics talk.
Bogan reply. "Mate, it says 3.1 tonne, I'm towing 3.1 tonne. It's not rocket surgery!" 😂
It almost is haha with rockets you shave every excess bit off weight of you can to carry more off the fun stuff. 3.1 tonne of trailer reduces the beer carrying capacity greatly.
I beg to offer that bananarisation of the chassis rails is really just an optical delusion! 😜😜😂😂👍🇦🇺
Fantastic video John. Absolutely correct, i was working in the industry when the federal government wanted to introduce the pedestrian safety rules for light vehicles.
I was amazed of the outright lies coming from the aftermarket industry about it being a bull bar ban to protect their industry.
But, I have seen testing on bull bars. APV Tech in Melbourne have done some testing on Chinese made bull bars which showed mounting systems to be inefficient.
Having said that, they were not attached to a vehicle to do an ADR69, 72 or 73 test (not that most 4wds are required to anyway as they either exceed weight or seat height limits).
Anyway, once again. Great video.
Thank you for the video. As someone who is planning our caravan road trip being aware of weight limitations is something we will work through in more detail.
Thank you John, this is one of the best videos I have watched!
I'm interested on the physics of bananaseration of the chassis, will be looking out for that video. Thank you.
Will do.
@IittIegalah I don't think I'll be FEA-ing the chassis any time soon... Just laying out the basic loads and reactions.
@IittIegalah In that case give John those numbers or post them here yourself.
@IittIegalah I would not suggest super specific material, but general guidelines would be appreciated as educative value, otherwise why mention how good you are? Sorry, I am an educator and that is my passion, if you have something to say, then say it, else keep quiet.
@IittIegalah Wow, showing off alittle are we? Impressive!
While most that seems in order at first glance, you are correct: It's a tad more complicated than that. And 10% FOS?? Oh wait, yep: Racing.....
A few additional considerations / variables: Total kg of the car LESS Unsprung Weight. But wait, there's more.....yesss! uneven impact, uneven weight disribution, lateral forces, age-hardening, work-hardening, external temperature range, 2nd moments, any 'loose' items (even when strapped down), tyre pressures/aspect ratio (see monstertruck springs)......yeah, i hope they pay you well, superbly complex system for FEA!!
Great video John, thank you.
I’d too be interested in the engineering chat.
Thanks Shane. Will do.
Good overview. I've been a boy scout and in the Army. So my wife sometimes wonders about my brain I think. But some of us like to be prepared more than others I guess. I like my lists, and thinking about problems that could happen on a trip. So I'm not the guy stuck and hopeful that someone nice comes along to save me. I'm also handicap now. So I have limitations in ability that younger me could just muscle through. So I plan more and bring more to overcome any potential problems. There is not a perfect load out so I'm always learning from those with more experience. And try to always learn from my mistakes. Because mistakes, hours from civilization in a vehicle, can be catastrophic.
Thankyou very informative John and i certainly agree with you on bull bars compromising safety. I would even extend that to if you dont require the tow bar attached if it can be possibly removed when not used and leave the open socket. Because i would say a rear ender with tow-bars attached also compromises on the safety cell as well.
Brilliant stuff, for the first time in my life someone has made me stop and think about loading in such a dynamic way, I personally drive a series 2 discovery so I'm not in the chassis bending team but I do tow camper trailers/caravans and just about anything else. Excellent show and look forward to a more in-depth discussion on this subject
dominic cox the “Three Amigos” are more of a worry (coming from some one with a D2 SII) but does make you think on only taking what is strictly necessary. And not taking a massively heavy trailer.
Perhaps a helpful addition to the discussion: It's a good idea to find out where your local public weighbridge is, and be prepared to spend around $100 or so on some weigh-ins for your vehicle and van, with various configurations of load if you need to. On the subject of bullbars, AS 4876 Part 1 covers harm minimisation to non-occupant road users from VFPSs (bullbars to us ordinary folk), and it looks like further parts of this standard were planned that would include maintaining the integrity of occupant protection systems for the vehicle fitted with the bullbar. However, no progress was made on this front, perhaps due to pressure from the AAAA.
Having said that, in recent years bullbars have been "lightweighted" significantly compared to the "pipe and girder" bars that appeared regularly on Landcruisers and Patrols in the 70s and 80s. Today's drawn tube and sheet-metal bars not only conform better to the shape of the vehicle but are lighter and will no doubt crumple at lower impact loads than the rigid early generation ones. So at least there has been some progress, albeit not through regulation. I think the thing that most bullbar owners who travel are trying to avoid is being stranded with a punctured radiator and/or no headlights when an errant 'roo comes out of nowhere at dusk. No amount of advanced driver training will allow you to steer around that.
Most scrap metal dealers have a weigh bridge and all it would cost is a box of beer to jump on it, at most.
colin cameron That’s a good option if you’re doing comparative weigh-ins, but forgive my cynicism, a scrap metal dealer may not have the most accurate weighbridge for absolute measurements.
Another excellent and informative video (I've just watched about 7 of your videos this afternoon, and subscribed). Interesting section on bull bars. I've never understood why they are not crash tested under ADR.
Brilliant and informative, accurate and to the point 👍👍. Looking forward to the beer garden for sure!
I'd enjoy seeing a physics Tute. Been a while since I did Statics.
Will do.
Why do people overthink touring Australia so much?
Honestly, tourists have been doing it for decades in decrepit pieces of crap you wouldnt even drive to coles.
So have farmers in their farm utes (always shitheaps).
Back in the Oregon trail days there were a lot of small crosses & shallow graves. A significant amount of those were the individuals who just "had"to take great grandma's hutch with them.
I have been up close with privateer Dakar race vehicles on a ferry from Spain to Morocco, where they were headed for tests. What caught my eye was the extensive reinforcements they had done to their chassis, and many of these reinforcing plates welded to the frame were painted in garish colours, all the better to keep track of which work and which don't (i.e, need longer.wider and thicker plates before the next test).
As a fellow Triton owner and one with a crazy notion of designing my own slide-on camper in the years to come, this was a very useful perspective. I’m also looking forward to the beer garden physics chat. Looking at the photos, I’m already thinking about how to address this matter in the design. What to do? Strengthen the chassis? Lengthen the chassis and convert to a 6 wheel drive?, pull out all stops on the weight reduction department? I’m also keen to understand the dynamic loading scenario. I’m imagining a charge over the crest of a low dune or out of a creek bed, where the whole truck pitches up, then down at that perfect rate of change to maximise banana momentum. Love to hear your thoughts.
Great , informative stuff John , I agree with you that if trading “ wife “ for secretary Tiffany and you only save 25kg probably not worth the hassle but if you gain a saving of 35. - 50 kgs I think it’s a no brainer ........Get in Tiffany !! Keep up the good work mate 👍
Yes, definitely want to watch "The beer garden physics of ute chassis bananarization" vid!
Seconded.
Well, that's the first video I've watched with a clickbaity title where the content was FAR BETTER than the title promised. Came to laugh at the bent utes, went away a lot more informed and knowledgeable.
Right, off to pack the go-bag for the car.
Excellent report once again John. Really enjoy your stuff! It's a shame more of these outback "bogans" don't watch these informative and factual reports. But then again, they know everything - apparently. Keep up the great work.
My completely unrelated question is why do Mad Max style preppers always choose vehicles that get fuel economy so poor they cannot get to their bunker without refilling?
Plot device.
Byron Servies. True. My vehicle for the mad max apocalypse is a V8 VE Commodore on duel fuel (LPG and Petrol). About 1200 kms cruising range with both tanks filled.
Excellent response. Story just stalls if you make it to the bunker uneventfully.
@@David-lr2vi I hope you have a blue heeler dog riding shotgun. Last of the V8 interceptors..noice.
@@shoveI That's true...
Great video John. You should google BT50 bent chassis and you will get a bit of info. Anecdotally, there is a relationship of bent chassis and the fitting of rear airbags. People want to level their leaf sprung ride after overloading the vehicle and fit airbags which places a point load on the chassis arch at the axle location. After market suspension accessories need to be carefully considered on vehicle loading in my opinion.
Root cause: Overloading.
Auto Expert John Cadogan Exactly! After market rear suspension modifications should be performed by qualified persons, particularly when loads are introduced on the chassis where they were not originally designed to take. Automotive engineer certificates should be required.
Not the airbags, overloading. I have 300,000kms plus with airbags and a heavily, but not overloaded ute, intrat it with the respect it deserves and not broken it. The correlation is the ute was.overloaded when it bent, many bend with or without airbags.
Very informative and clearly presented topic. I really enjoy this new video format that you John are doing. Seems to me like the latest videos are a significant change from earlier "ranty" videos (which still have their place here though); this is a GOOD thing because you presented these latest topics clear on facts and straight to the point (my OCD and logical, practical thinking likes that Very much!).
Many good wishes to you from Sweden.
Vytautas4Xfiles Lithuanian in Sweden ?
@@frednurks8528 Yup :)
fantastic video - i remember when i was in the SES they had strict limits on how we could load up the isuzu duel cab ute - after watching your videos i understand why - the utes really are medium duty - hence why they use isuzu 4wd trucks for heavy loads
In my observations, the prize missus usually weighs about 100kg and old mate weighs about 80kg 😆
Thanks mate well explained.
If your gonna do the big lap, you won't make it unless you have all the shit. 🤔 👍
I like the fact that your face is further from my screen.
Yeah, it hides the wrickles!
About bloody time you got the. audio sorted with a decent mic...👍👍👍 Well done sir!
Makes a lot of sense all the information in this video the bullbar stuff is really eye opening.
Always an informative and entertaining video John.
Would definitely be interested in the Beer Garden chat.
Yes for the beer garden physics lesson regarding banana-isation.
Love your work John!
The only medium duty dual cab ute I could say would be very robust regarding the banana-isation issue, would be the recently superseded Land-Rover Defender 110/130, but you’d better be handy with a spanner and make sure you keep them with you😉
I used to be a Land-Rover nut, and then I went to the doctor who gave me some medication to fix that horrible affliction.
A few years ago I watched an interview on TV with the guy who ran the pub at Birdsville at that time. He said that he’d had to tow a number of double cab utes that had bent their chassis. Seems it was only the double cabs with the problem. He said, in his opinion, that all were overloaded particularly from the wheel arch back.
Yep. Single cabs are much better for placing the load in front of, or over, the rear axle.
You can also be kind to your chassis when towing if you use a 5th wheel hitch. Having said that, you also need a compatible toy to tow.
@@WhyWouldYouDrawThat and the cab + engine are sitting on the front wheels. The cab of a dual cab is heavier, longer and sits further back putting pressure right on the centre of the rails. It's any surprise that with a bit of corrigations and a good load on the back that they become large metal dildos.
Just love the way you explain things . Thankyou .
You have changed my view on bullbars thank you
Yes to the beer garden chat. Hopefully produced and presented with some top quality Ming Molls.
From the looks of that Triton, there is too much weight at the back.
Nah m8, new beavertail back end for easy loading!!
Excellent video yet again John, yes to learning more on bananarisation “down there”.
Physics actually says the triton is physically disadvantaged by having the shortest wheelbase. Its 200mm less than the competition. 200mm from the fulcrum point adds a significant increase in moment arm. The axle axis is near the front of the tray in the triton so every kilo added to the tray is aft of the fulcrum. The stress of that 200mm is the equivalent to an additional 19kg per 100kg of load at the fulcrum point, ie the back of the cab.
I just towed a jayco flamingo camper from Perth to shark bay. I couldn’t even imagine how un-fun it would be to tow these massive vans around Australia.
Hi John, I’ve heard the bent chassis’s are often due to overloaded vehicles that have rear airbags fitted to make them sit level. The airbags get pump up rock hard so as a result the rear suspension doesn’t actually work causing metal fatigue on the chassis rails.
Is there any truth to this?
Cheers
that is certainly possible. and just another form of overloading. toyota did bring out a cruiser ute with helper air bags after being sued by theese mine services who asked for a vehicle to carry 1 tonne of bulk a product. a large number were ordered most had chassis and suspension failures. toyota hadn't told them tare mass was without the factory tool kit or spare and only 10lts of fuel. the order contract clearly asked for a vehicle to carry 1 tonne of product so toyota lost the case and had to provide vehicles fit for purpose.
Your opinion in regards with the bull-bar is on point, also one of the reasons a lot of European cars have extensive use of plastic in the front end, even at the fenders, is for pedestrian safety in case of an accident, in that case the vehicle hitting the pedestrian will cause less harm than it would with having steel or aluminium parts...regardless adding unnecessary weight causes a lot of problems even for driving dynamics...
Wow, very good article. And Rodeo's were notorious for it a few years ago. Not a Triton issue at all. Loading limits/stuff applies to non-utes as well. Take out the ute stuff (mine is a 2017 Triton and I have been aware of a lot of this stuff for many years - yes i'm old and with 20+ years of 4WD experience in many types of 4WD from a Suzuki Sierra up to a Patrol) and there is an enormous amount of good advice here about loading and towing with most 4WDs. And maybe many other vehicles as well (AKA Commodore/Falcon with a 20' overloaded caravan behind them! OMG! Talk about the tail wagging the Dog!) Kudos!
I'm glad I watched this video as an awareness of how easily so many of us can get carried away with the all so common, medium duty 4wd vehicles here in Australia.
If people took on board what you clearly explained in black and white English, American truck sales will go through the roof.
I did take the time to watch the whole of this 35 minute video, which was probably too long for the know it all, overloaded, Bogan, dick head medium 4wd owners that you describe.this lot would definitely get the jidders after the ten minute mark, and not getting the message that you are trying to communicate.
And wife is confused why I refuse to join a 4wd drive club with my small dick, standard 100 series.
I thankyou for your address on road safety, but alot of people just don't get it and then cry when they roll it, kill someone, or their insurance is null and void.
Keep up the great videos mate!
Using a light duty vehicle instead of heavy duty is a recipe for disaster
Depends how you use it.
@@AutoExpertJC obviously for towing
very techy, informative and comprehensive. big thanks to you mate.
Love what you'er saying about bull bars. Brilliant
It’s not just tritons it’s all these type of duel cabs
To much weight over the back axle
I had my chassis lengthened 800 to move the axle back and center the weight over the axle
i would argue that yes although this can happen to any ute with overloading and weight distribution and off road conditions with bad speed control, i would say the triton and navara in my opinion have weaker designed chassis, thinner walled or bad rear axle length i could be proven wrong but that's my observation
@@oldcynic6964 as i said from my experience, what iv observed. but that would be very good to know the chassis thickness and dimensions and also the measurement of the overhang from rear axle. but this problem does happen more so with certain makes so i do think there's more to it.
Now, before You make more fool of yourself, I tell a story: A guy at work called Henri has a D-Max -12. If dynamic or static overloading by "dicks" is too much for Colorado, Gladiator or Triton, it is not too much for the D-max: My friend Henri is somewhat famous of overdoing everything, and once he had almost two tons of sand and tiles etc on the truck bed, and was towing a Suzuki Jimny from each other`s tow hitches with a lenghty stiff self-made coupling (increasing leverage even more) so that the Jimny had the rear wheels off the ground. He had 6x6(or like) wooden blocks between the axle and the frame to keep the D-Max level enough to not get too much attention from the cops (as if the towing arrangement was not illegal-looking enough...). He had to drive a long logging road to his storage area. No harm done. Another time he had a little bit too much speed on a gravel road curve, and went over a considerable ditch with a trailer in tow that had a tractor on it. No harm to anything exept to the trailer which had one wheel "a bit crooked" after that. So, yes, some latest trucks indeed have design faults in their frames, some earlier have not. Just wait what the frames do in countries like here in Finland where frames rust, as there is no margin for that if frames bend even when new... I know this is a show and thus the title "expert", but as some people may actually believe You, be careful, do not mislead people just to make funny shows.
@@mrhorse6587 100% agree ,,,,,,,,
Moi moi
Didn't have to watch the whole video because I've spent a billion hours researching this already. My experience with my 2016 MQ; Mitsubishi claim the MQ has a stronger chassis than previous models. However from new, I could always feel the chassis flutter over certain surfaces. Including some bitumen roads. Not sure if I was imagining it, but it sure felt real. So when I planned to do the Canning Stock Route, towing a small trailer (700 kg loaded weight, 80 kg ball weight. And around 250 kgs in the canopy) I was a tad worried. As part of the research, I came across the bent chassis repair plate kits. So I decided "Why wait until it bends, why not fit it before the trip?" So I did. I'm convinced that even with only 80 on the ball, some parts of that track where you had no choice but to throw yourself at the bigger dunes the ute was at real risk of going, literally, pear shaped. But, it did the trip no problem. Having said that, there's no way I'd tow more than about 2.1 tonnes, and no way in the world would I have a ball weight greater than 150 kg. I might be wrong but I reckon if I stick to those rules, the Triton will never bend. And, when all is said and done, the Triton is by far the most reliable vehicle I've had over 46 years and more than 40 vehicles. Not the nicest by a long shot, but definitely the best overall. So there.
Great reality check. I have a 96 GQ wagon. I've spoken to a few peeps that had the cut down dual cab version and whilst they didn't bend they did develop stress fractures at that weak point. They were heavily used (abused) vehicles. For those who haven't done it yet compare a GQ/GU chassis to the current crop of Ute's, big difference.
Yes! More beer garden banana engineering shows!
Will do - banana-eering to come.
15.56 minutes, that's exactly how my mate bent his hilux.
Anyone can do it.
Noooo not the Lux...I'm gutted mate.
@IittIegalah Toyota owners would be - by far - the most butt-hurt when it happens...
@@AutoExpertJC they will flat out deny it happened... As they bicycle home haha
@@JimmyStewpot Quite.
You did the beer-garden-physics on towing so funny well to me as an naval engineer, it was comedy at its best to me. I really do look forward to the banana-plant-physics!
Fantastic content on this one John. I want better suspension on my 2017 Triton dual cab. Be great to see a vid on the pros and cons. Keep up the great work.