2022 Toyota GR86 Review - Do I Regret Selling My BRZ?
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- Almost 9 months have passed since I replaced my Gen 2 BRZ with the Integra Type S, and I haven't driven another BRZ/GR86 until now. Let's see if my opinion has changed.
Mod List:
G-loc pads
Stoptech front rotors, Centric rear
Verus BMC brace
Perrin BMC cover
SPC camber bolts
SPC rear LCAs
-1.5 F, -1.4 R camber, 0 front toe, slight rear toe in
Yokohama V601 225/40/18 on OEM wheels
ARP extended wheel studs
Perrin steering lockdowns
Corsa exhaust
JDM intake housing
See how I rank the cars I've reviewed in my Zygrene Performance Index (ZPI): bit.ly/3Vo0Idd
Follow me on IG: / zygrene
Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com 
Авто/Мото
Hey guys, Nalin here. Thanks @Zygrene for reviewing my car on his channel. I wanted to clarify that the car is not technically allowed in 86DC due to some modifications on the car. But I do attend their events and got the build as close as possible to what a stock class build effectively is (similar tires, similar alignment, stock suspension) without spending an insane amount money on the car. Cheers!
Cool OEM+ build for DD
Everyone is allowed in Touring or unlimited!
Love my gen 1 BRZ to throw around the city. Nothing beats the simplicity of these little guys.
my daily is still 1st gen BRZ kouki. No issues so far last 7 years. HKS exhaust and coilovers plus new suspension
Nice review, yay to lightweight sports cars. Back in the 90s, Honda FWD cars were especially amazing because VTEC engine and under 2200lbs.
Love the update on the body styling too. Looks way better than the previous gen..
I like how after 2 years of reviews for these cars, I finally get one because every car youtuber got one and praised it. Now that I have one, every single one of them starts mentioning numb steering, and poor throttle response lmao. I wish they had mentioned these issues before I bought it, because I definitely noticed them right away.
Reason why it’s so important to test drive a car before purchasing. But hopefully you felt unsatisfied with the steering *before* watching these reviews and didn’t get influenced by opinion
Imo I think the steering is fine. I actually prefer it when doing spirited driving because I feel a lot of control when doing quick turns
@@MrNotgoth oh yea I actually rented the car on Turo for a day. I did notice it, but I guess I was having too much fun to really think too much into it lol. I still love the car, just kinda disappointing with these deficiencies. Especially since I bought it because I missed driving my old NC Miata. My current mazda3 seems to have better steering feel and throttle tuning. But everything else is worse than the GR86.
I drove an 86. It was the best sports car I have ever driven on a backroad (driving for 25 years all sorts of cars, from exotics to commuters) EXCEPT the Lotus Emira/Evora, MX5 and Porsche 911 997 generation GTS/GT3. However, the two issues. The engine isnt smooth (not a huge issue) and the steering, does not load up in corners neither does it transmit limits of grip or road texture, also poor self centering. I love the directness, small wheel and quick ratio but its a step down from the FRS and ND3 MX5 which is a lot better.
I would still buy one anyway, its a very special car and to me more enjoyable on a backroad than any new Porsche.
They mentioned it I’ve watched them all I have Gen 1 so wanted to know if I would trade.
I think it is overall one of the best cars of all time but I’m biased because I just bought a new one with the performance package which I have been dreaming of since the car came out in 2012 lmao. I take delivery in a week. On another note, if you can get your hands on a gr86 with the performance repackage to review on a canyon or track that would be awesome. I’m really curious what your thoughts on the brakes and Sachs dampers are considering you have a stock point of reference and I don’t
I just got 225 Yokohama v601s for my factory 17x7.5 wheels ("premium" ZD8 BRZ) and after 1k miles, I'm loving them so far. They have way more grip than the factory primacies, but I'm way more aware of the body roll and the delay in turn in because of it. I'm still loving the new tires though. There's wayyy more confidence when cornering.
I waited a year and a half on wait-list to receive my 23 GR86 10th anniversary to fill my void of a S2000 and I was a wee bit let down. From the throttle response, to the power output. I really feel they ahould have shortened the gears and made the shifter smoother. Not a fan of the clutch feel either. I ended up buying a S2K a little over 6 months ago and man is it better. If only I could have found it before I bought the 86 😂 spot on review bro, good job!
I have the same feeling as you! Didn't want to spend so much on a used S2000 so I bought the GR86. Sold it due to the same reasons. Also the engine was a lit down in terms of experience. I wish I got the S2000 but I'm very happy with my FK8
The gr86 isnt as good as a s2k, the nd2 miata is better tho, thats the car u shoulda got.
@@Sideways_Singh you're the second one to suggest that! I've never driven a Miata, but it's on my to-do list
@@sidneymisenheimer510 I’ve owned both ND2 and still own a yellow S2K ap1. Trust me, you bought the right car, the ND2 is fun but a bit boring in comparison to the S2000, no way near as visceral. I’d done suspension, wheels and exhaust on the ND2 but it still didn’t cut it, the engine, gearbox are good but not in the same league as the Honda, also chassis felt more flexy. Enjoy the S2000 and don’t ever sell it, everyone that does ends up regretting it 😂
@@Manvswild11 hey man that's the plan, it was so worth the wait. I enjoy it more each time I drive it. It's not going anywhere
Nice review Fenton! I was looking at buying one of those cars but the ITS won over them. I think if they had more HP I would have went with them as a cheaper option.
I sold mine in March 2024
Didn’t sold at the dealer for 2 months so I purchased again easy to miss this car!!!!
I completely understand the power differentiation. Going from a 2013 Subaru BRZ to a 2016 Audi RS3 is night and day. However, It has made me appreciate the pure handling the BRZ.
I would really like to see a head to head comparison between a 1st gen TRD and a base 2nd gen. They are pretty comparable in price in the used market.
You and Kevin should both get NC miatas same mods do endless track battles
Great review.
You pointed pretty much everything what's good and what's missing in this car.
I have a feeling that you regret selling it. The CTR may be more practical but it is not a true sports car. It understeers excessively and its not nimble. It never hides its modest FWD platform.
BRZ is not perfect, but which car is?
In terms of electronic steering; Have you driven a car with electronic steering that gives much more feedback on the road surface?
Slow ko shut up
exhaust sounds pretty decent
Fenton, miss your S2000 ownership days. I know you have a special garage space in your heart for them. Time for an S2000 comeback?
I have a special garage space in my heart but not in my house. Also I have $3
@@Zygrene gotta sell more ads!
Irrelevant car that was discontinued for a reason one trick pony..
@Zygrene do a giveaway S2000 😉 what everyone else be doing haha
@@gigi9467Tell me you're a Miata owner without telling me you're a Miata owner. Irrelevant, yet constantly compared to other similar cars 25 years later? 😂
Ordered my GR86 Premium in August if 2023, just acquired last month. Full Xpel ppf, ceramic over that... this car is sick. Looking forward to my included track day. No other mods. Talk to me...
How much is the full xpel kit
@sunnyvalentino $4,450 before tax (Northeast Ohio). They wrapped everything they could, doors, hood, trunk, etc. Fantastic job, no bubbles or blemishes. White Glove Detailing in Akron, OH. I'm having them tint it next week too.
The owner of the car must be very handsome.
Love my silver MY23 BRZ. Just needs an exhaust.
So 1st gen comes out, people complain about the lack of power; 2nd gen comes out, people say it's completely transformed in terms of power; a few years go by, people are back to talking about the lack of power and asking for forced induction...
That's what happens when you go to a fwd turbo. They know deep down the GR86 is the true enthusiast car over any hot hatch..
Lmao you kids are hilarious. I know this is your first car but try to accept that the GR86 is not the end all be all. The engine is okay at best, the EPS is numb and there's a chance your engine goes kaboom on a right sweeper. There are FWD options that have feel sportier, must suck to have such a biased blindspot though
@@MK3504 I agree with you 2nd gen twin has more numbness in steering and engine isn't the best. I used to have GT86 & BRZ, now in an Hyundai i20N (UK). It's an amazing little hot hatch but does it feel like a RWD sports car - No.
@@patrickbateman7122 your argument was not feeling like a true enthusiasts car. What happened to the DC2, JCMINI, MS3, FIST, EN, etc? this snobbery is stupid, an enthusiast's car does not mean RWD only
@@MK3504 actually I'd like to apologise how I've come across here. I didn't mean to say enthusiast in my original post. I should've said 'sports car'. Those cars you mention are amazing enthusiast cars and i do like FWD (i own one) but for true sports car for me it has to be well you know..
Debating whether to slowly build a supercharged GR86 or just keep it simple and buy a fully loaded ND3 soft top. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the nd3 for the street.
this right here is the exact dilemma i’m having. owned an nd2 and miss it every day. the nd3 updates are very appealing
Reliable K swap would be close to perfect. I have a '22 on Hipermax Rs. Solid steering rack bushings help steering feel.
Which solid steering rack bushings did you use?
@@jl5731 GKtech
@@jl5731 GKtech
7:00 the 2024 model year is the one they got the eyesight added! My 23 brz limited has no eyesight thankfully as I’ve heard it is quite annoying
I drove the Miata the other day. It felt good Handel well, but it feels like the car it’s going to fall apart when I drive it hard. It vibrates a lot. I need to test drive the gR86.
If I'm used to standard commuter cars( currently 98 civic ex stock) would I notice the lack of power?
I think you should hit up K24 Austin & see if he’d let you try his 600whp Turbo GR86… Yes it’s on the stock engine block…
Did i make a mistake and sold my brz gen 2 for fl5 type r ?
I might sound crazy but... while the 2nd gen twins are objectively better performance-wise, I can't help but find that the 1st gen FEELS better despite its subpar engine.
Agreed.
I recently removed my charcoal filter and throttle response is so much better. Drivability is much better as well. Able leave it in 5th on big hill, whereas before I’d have to downshift to 4th. Jdm spec cars don’t have the charcoal filter and has higher advertised power figure🧐
how do you remove it and where is it?
the gear ratios are pretty much perfect, but the final drive is only 4.1 soa higher final drive such as 4.44-4.7 would really help out across the range, but it would be hard on the interstate, but this car isn't for the interstate.
After getting smoked by gr86 cup car he's back :-)
I have a 2024 GTI for a his and hers car. The BRZ is so much more fun. I can't get used to FWD drive dynamics since I'm a little slow and a boomer.
Does the Cayman fulfill that void you speak of? Lightweight rwd with decent power
In some ways yes, but there's something about a light weight FR that still speaks to me in a way an MR just can't.
How does the clutch and shifter feel compared to a Miata? I have a ‘99 Miata that I’m thinking of selling to get either a ND2 Miata or a BRZ/86
ND2/3 clutch and shifter feel much more natural and precise. BRZ/GR86 clutch feel is pretty vague. Shifter feel is decent but you're comparing to one of the best available.
I figured the Miata was way better. I’ve driven several newer manuals and the manual in my ‘99 feels substantially better.
@@FDT_USMC_oorah what’s wrong with the throttle response. And yeah the vague clutch is what I hated in the modern cars I drove
If you get the 86/brz, installing a mtec clutch spring helped me a lot. Still at the end of the day, I sold my GR86 for an ND2
Except…you can’t find one for 30k. Whereas in Tampa Bay Area they are doing large discounts, much higher trade in value and a lot lower interest rates if you want to purchase a Miata. Basically a Miata grand touring would cost me less than a base gr86 by a large margin.
What is the fix for the oil starvation issue (for track use) ?
An issue that’s so overblown. Just overfill
Per @900BRZ, you can run a 1L overfill or an accumulator. And there's a promising redesigned Verus oil pan that will be tested soon I'm told
Deja vu, I have been in this place before
Did you have a white one?
Thinking about trading my FL5 for a BRZ or GR86 and pocketing the difference. Not because I need the money, I just think this might be more fun. Am I crazy? I drove the gen 1 86 and it felt a bit too slow but this new one traps 100mph which isn’t actually much slower than the FL5, which is kind of slow anyway compared to a lot of stuff these days. Love the Type R, loved my FK8 too, just think it might be fun to have something more playful. Will I regret getting rid the FL5 and miss the torque? That’s what I worry about… decisions decisions…
Do you need the extra space?
@@itnokedNo not really, it’s more of a fun weekend car for me. I have a truck for a daily. If I can fit my golf clubs in it I’m good. Plus the advantage of the 86 is I can put a hitch on it and haul my bike around on a hitch rack. Hard to do that with the Type R with the center exhaust, and I don’t want a roof rack or to put the dirty mountain bike under the car.
@@mattd7814 you are absolutely not crazy for thinking the brz/86 is more fun. As a matter of fact, it can be argued that the twins are than any hot hatch out there (including GR corolla, Golf R and even Elantra N). Are those technically more serious performance machines that are more usable and faster at the same time? yes. But like these journalists and reviewers say, it is hard to beat manual, N/A, FR cars. They are the "purist" cars for a reason. You will approach the limits on street much easier, which for many is more fun. Toss it around corners, making those midcorner adjustment, and just enjoying the overall lightweight feel while most more expensive offerings are 3500lbs+. Last bonus, you can drive this thing balls to the wall and consumables will be cheaper, which nobody would be mad at. But what do I know
@@rahatchoudhury175 thanks for the reply, that is exactly the line of thinking I was having when I started to think about making the switch. A serious performance machine isn’t always the most fun to drive on the street. The limits are impressive but you rarely get to experience them in some these higher performance vehicles. The whole “Slow car fast” thing I guess…
@@mattd7814 right on my friend
For god's sake man turn the fake engine noise off if there's a corsa exhaust. That catback sounded great on my first gen. one of the only ways to make the fa20 sound good
$30k?...things have changed since you bought your BRZ. That GR86 Premium trim is $33k and Toyota dealers aren't moving off MSRP. The BRZ Limited is even more, although Subaru dealers will go under MSRP now. The twins aren't really meaningfully less expensive than a Miata soft-top anymore, and that is a much better built car and a convertible to boot.
I got mine for under msrp a couple weeks ago. Love it
Miata is near $40k and way less usable as an only car. And a manual gr86 is under $33k
@@30hours51 and which version of the Miata is near $40k? The Club is directly comparable to the twins and costs
you can get a 2nd gen brz/86 for $30k canadian with low mileage. you can also get a nd2 for that much in the used market similar conditions.
@@tylerrynberg grand touring RF, which is the trim with LSD that isn't build to order with everything loaded, vs $32k for a manual gr86 fully loaded
what is the fix for the oil starvation issue? I heard Verus engineering is developing something, is there anything else? thanks.
Yea I bought an ND2 miata (I think the right choice now regardless) after zygrene, savagegeese and everyday driver, jubbal etc..all ditched their GR/Brz's because of the issue
@900brz has excellent videos answering this exact question. It was his car that was the development mule for the Verus Engineering high-capacity oil pan, which is what seems to be the most promising long-term fix.
There are basically three tiers of answers to this question.
Casual drivers and occasional trackday joiners: 0.5-quart/0.5L oil overfill.
Frequent trackday joiners: Syms oil pan baffle or the aforementioned Verus oil pan.
High-grip track rats: 1.5qt Accusump/oil accumulator.
I prefer the miata over the twins.. Convertible, lighter, better engine noise, steering, transmission, etc. Major downside is that it costs $12k more for the club rf version I got. Also soul red crystal metallic is an amazing paint
The engine alone I feel I’ll trust mazda more than subaru
I'd agree. The Miata gives me that go kart for the street feel. They've just gotten so expensive, especially the RF Club!
Love the Miata but current prices are a bit high
I own both and prefer my gr86
I have a 2023 BRZ and owned a ND2 Miata. I miss the convertible aspect but not the body roll of the Miata.
They just don’t last though right. Motor is going to fail before 100k miles
For the price of an !ntegra type S, u can buy a gr86/brz and a used Accord sport
ND2 vs 2.4 86 platform?
I did that comparison a couple years back. I'm doing another one with the ND3 and BRZ tS soon.
@Zygrene Can you please address whether the tS has less steering feel than a standard 86/brz? I've seen a couple reviews now calling the steering dead in the tS.
Review a 370z !
I love these RUclipsrs - Often no clear answer....
Coming up on 2 years with my BRZ and still love it with some small mods to inprove engine character and handling. I actually prefer the 2nd gen BRZ over AP2's I've driven and instructed in. I haven't tried an ND3 Miata yet, but I get the feeling I wouldn't enjoy the soft suspension and decreasing torque curve for how I like to drive. Really want to try an AP1 just for the 9k redline/sound. Seems like it would pair well with the relatively refined/torquey BRZ2.
So one way to sum it up. You had this car and spent about 64% more to get a faster, better all-arounder and it would seem as though the gr86/brz is more fun to drive.
Not sure why its virtues don’t warrant longer term ownership from your perspective, but to each his own.
I don't think I ever said it's not worthy of long term ownership. I think it is, especially with the latest developments on fixing the oil starvation issue on track. I moved onto the ITS because it fits my current lifestyle a lot better, and I wanted to experience something totally different than what I was used to, even if it's less fun in some ways.
Just what is the oil starvation fix you mentioned ?
@Zygrene has also mentioned that he does have "car ADHD" if you've followed his channel for any reasonable length of time.
s2000 is the answer, i own gr86 and supercharged s2000.... you need both bascally :-)
What's the fix for the oil starvation issue?
Accusump
@900BRZ did extensive testing, I think he's working with Verus on a larger capacity oil pan, they prototyped and proved it significantly reduces oil pressure drop
For now you can run a 1L overfill or an accumulator. The Verus pan I helped develop and test is not on the market yet, but they're getting close.
Look up some stuff from Ansix Auto, they did some testing on their RUclips channel to show an Accusump helps.
Besides getting a $6k dry sump system. Drop the oil pan, remove RTV from strainer and install oil baffles.
OEM modified? That is not a stock car!
Miata is always the answer..
This is either a car you love or a car you hate.
8:37 sounds like you might end up in a Miata.
Miata is always the answer…
It’d be great if it wasn’t for the Subaru flat motor bullshit
Miata a more reliable,more fuel economic, more fun car
Gr86/Brz has more space, less road noise, not as easy to break into. If it's your only car, the brz edges out the miata
@afuriousblackman huge Miata fan but agreed. I genuinely wish Toyota used an updated celica 4cylinder engine in this thing.
Both statements are true
@@afuriousblackmanif your 30+ most wouldn't daily a BRZ either. Once you experience some luxury hard go back
@@feelthatfeelthat same here. Miatas are what got me into cars. But as I'm approaching my first ever car purchase, I'm greatly considering the GR86 because of this
I want to love this car, but the boomy, harsh sounding engine I just couldn't live with.
@@Fghh108 It's absolutely not. As this video amply proves.
I wanted one but was hesitant because they have a Subaru engine.. Then I started reading on forums that some engines started to break under 10k miles. Glad I never bought one.
Just pure false Propaganda 😂
Yeah good call brother. Absolute trash cars built to blow up and disappoint. Anything Subaru is a red flag
@@30hours51 Numerous people shared their experience, that's Not propaganda...🤦🤦♂️🤦♀️
@@ItsBunChayou hang out on the forums I see 😂
@@lamesamelamethere would be a recall if it was such a big deal
So stock
SS/1LE is your answer. Smiles for Miles.
The ND3 Miata is way better.
I really really really wanted to love this car, but it has in my mind two fatal flaws:
1.) The engine issues are straight up embarrassing.
2.) The laggy throttle response is shocking and for me almost a bigger deal than the engine.
For this kind of car, these problems are unacceptable. If Mazda can get it right with their Miata, why can't Subaru/Toyota? It's definitely a head-scratcher.
do you give up whenever you face a problem? two very simple solutions but you just give up? why do owners of every other sports car that has some kind of fatal flaw, especially oil starvation in high g turns, simply fix the issue (which most commonly for oil starvation is simply .5/1 liter overfill) but when it comes to this car, it's just give up? this is why i don't agree with affordable sports car since it's a magnet for this type of thinking
@@jamesm5370 agree wholeheartedly. Such a shame people are so quick to give up on these
@@jamesm5370 I'm not willing to bet $30k on aftermarket solutions that have not yet withstood the test of time. In addition, this starvation issue will likely ruin the resale value of these cars. It's moronic to build a sportscar without a robust engine. If you have already purchased one, you should sell it now while you can still get your money back. Take the L and move on.
Because Toyota allowed Subaru to use their boxer engine. Imagine if they used a better Toyota engine or something else instead.
I’m gonna say it again, a Z4M Coupe would fulfill all your NA, manual, RWD, moderately lightweight (3200 pounds), powerful (340 hp) sports car urges AND bring some unique flair to your RUclips channel. 🤌
Stay tuned for my next comparison video on 6/9 🙂
One of my favorite cars that is still relatively affordable!
He's owned quite a few Japanese cars, he may not be willing to get into the higher maintenance schedule.
Z4M has so much going for it, not the least of which is the N/A inline 6 that represents the pinnacle of BMW’s N/A I6 engine development, truly a peak point of BMW history. The short wheelbase makes them a lot of fun, although perhaps fun to some is scary to others, but my personal preference says fun! However, they are seriously one of the most controversial designs, and a lot of people can’t get over how ugly they are.
@@joeracer302 I like that it’s so polarizing in its design. Some people can’t stand how it looks, others say it’s BMWs prettiest creation. Not many cars do that.
Sometimes I look at certain pictures of them and I think it looks quite strange, other times I stare at it long enough and it becomes the most beautiful car design I’ve ever seen.