I BUILT A HEATED BED AND IT BLEW A FUSE - GIANT 3D PRINTER BUILD PT. 3
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
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I'm building a giant 3D printer from scratch, the printer will have a print volume of 1000x1000x1420 mm. Everything you see in the video has been designed and 3D printed by me and the files will be available on my website www.ivanmiranda.com when the project is finished.
I'll be using a Slice Engineering magnum plus hotend and It is controlled by a Duet3 MBHC which is a fantastic controller, check it out!:
www.duet3d.com/products
In this episode I install 4 - 1Kw heaters on a 3mm aluminium plate. The heaters are individually controlled by the Duet3 through 4 SSR and each heated bed has an independent thermal fuse just in case things go haywire.
On top I used a regular piece of 5mm glass. That will be more than enough for PLA or similar plastics.
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CHAPTERS
00:00 The plate
01:07 Half wave rectifier
02:06 Thermal fuse
03:48 Sticking to the plate
06:57 Wiring
08:24 Fail 1 - Short
08:48 Fail 2 - Common ground
09:11 Fail 3 - SSR Triac
10:33 The glass
11:48 Speed test 
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this printer is awesome 🤘😎🤘 the next iteration you have to run it via 3 phase AC 😂
Have you considered a counter weight system for the bed? 80% of the bed weight should save those resin gears while still maintaining downward pressure on the belts. Then you only have to worry about the weight of the print.
Can't wait to see what you print on this monster.
You can get solid state safety relays which fail safe. With that much power I'd definitely consider using those instead. The thermal fuse is probably worthwhile as well, but if one of those blows you'll have to pull the whole heater pad and insulation off to fix it.
actually he should use thermal switch instead its reuseable cuz control board can fail and keep relay on
How are you dealing with warping on a sheet that big and thin?
SSRs are not truly fail safe in any form. I deal with them professionally, and no compaince body on earth will approve them in a fail safe capacity. The only legally approved safety systems for SSRs are high limit cutoffs (capillary tube or thermostat style) or an approved control system (similar to a medically approved software system, or an approved mechanical control) with a second element like a mechanical relay.
@@mausball I'm sorry but I can't aggree with that! Not every SSR is built the same. Have a look at Crydom 84134000 for example, that is NO SSR so when they fail the circuit is open. The fact that you "deal with them profesionally" doesn't really mean anything.
@@cleosynthesis Nowhere is that certified as an approved fail safe item. I've used that part number, and a bunch of other high reliability SSRs. They can't pass alone, partly because they cannot offer a dual pole shutoff, but partly because of a fundamental nature of the triac inside.
Awesome !
Suggestion : when using PWM to heat the quadrants, you can alternate them.
If you use bellow 25% PWM, running 1 2 3 4 sequentially will never draw more than 1 quadrant worth of amps
The energy you will need to heat up the area will be the same regardless of PWM strength. If U use 25% PWM it will take 4x the time to heat it up
@@florianhinsch4912 but when you synchronize PWM with zero crossing on AC power, then it should work:)
@@mikoajandrzejewski259 i didnt said it wouldnt work. but if you use 1/4 of the power at any given time you could just use less powerfull heaters.
@@florianhinsch4912 You're missing the point. Let's say you are running them at 75%, which is close to the 80% in the video. If you PWM them all at the same time, you are pulling the full current for 75% of the time, then no current for 25% of the time. If you stagger them instead, you are still pulling the same average power, and so producing the same heat, but now you are pulling no more than 3/4 of the full current. Meaning that you get the same heating in both cases, but in one case you can easily blow the breaker, but in the other case you never do.
I'm loving watching the whole process of building and problem solving this project, keep it up!
As always Ivan it is a pleasure to see your process, honest mistakes, and especially the willingness to GO BIG! Keep it goin!
Year 2025: Ivan prints a house on his 25m x 25m bed 3D printer.
Nah he will print houses
"you wouldnt download a car"
ivan: "hold my beer..."
Ivan: It’s funny you mention that
Normally you use heatsink on leads of the fuse when soldering a temperature fuses, so heat don't get to the fuse when soldering them.
Or an alternative would be to crimp connectors onto the fuses, so no soldering is needed.
As always Ivan, this thing is AMAZING! Really over the top awesome! I appreciate how you leave the fails in there as well, keeps it real for the average users! Keep Making Awesome buddy!
Wow man this thing is huge. Good job mate! However, I doubt your idea of only heating 1 quadrant at a time will work. You're pumping heat into aluminum. One of the best heat conducting materials out there. I'd be surprised if by the time active quadrant gets to 60C, the other quadrants wouldn't reach 50C+
You can, and probably should, crimp the thermal fuses. And sleeve them with glassfiber sleeves, held in place against the heated surface with an aluminium P clip. Look at an electric hot plate for reference.
Nice video! I love the marks on the bed you've drawn!
Really enjoyed this video Ivan! I'm excited to see this project up and running.
In stead of the thermal fuse you can use a bimetal probe that's normal closed. You can find them in various temperatures.
This is generally discouraged because a thermal fuse is meant to be a last defense against a printer failing for safety issues. A self-resetting switch will cycle back on after a cooldown may occur, but without the issue being resolved. One possible scenario is the bed overheats, the switch trips, but the adhesive of the bed is now weakend, and the heater mat seperates. Now, with the switch restting, the heater mat reheats, but is no longer attached to the bed, and is a significant fire hazard.
It's a common question, someone else explained that line of reasoning to me as well.
hes spanish right?
quite rare seeing someone from this country do this kind of content, finally someone doing good content.
Mucho cariño desde españa, sigue creciendo!
Awesome part of the build as usual!
Looked like putting on the glass was such a proud moment.
Best wishes for the printer! Looking forward to XY axis!
Brilliant, Ivan! Fantastic work!!! 😃
Looking forward to the next part!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I think this is your best series yet!
Blowing fuses are a sign of a good time. Great job Ivan.
I just love seeing you build stuff and the way you troubleshoot and fix things along the way. You also have such a great sense of humor.
Can you perhaps show how you design stuff like this? I would love to learn more about the design process.
Vaya crack estás hecho. Enhorabuena por tu buen trabajo. Es una pasada ver tus vídeos.
Gracias por todo
amazing project. in a positive way you are the crazy professor. your channel deserves more subscribers . you not only make amazing things your also are very open to show any mistakes. keep up the good work
Very educational (I did not see the half-wave problem coming, it sounded clever at the time!) but also the installation of the adhesive heaters and insulation was *very* satisfying, no wrinkles or alignment problems, that takes a lot of care :-)
I'm in love with this build! Excited to see you throw the extruder on this mean machine.
You can get thermal fuses lower temperature. Correct way to connect wire is crimp connection.
Its looking so good! Build quality is exceptional. Well done Ivan. Keep going it will to be great..
Now you have a giant centerpiece shop heater 🤣... I cannot wait to see the first print! What we have seen you accomplish with little printers will pale in comparison to this monster!
cada vez que veo un video tuyo quedo alucinado, creas maravillas.
Perfect solution for a large scale printer. Nice work Ivan!
I can’t wait to see what you are going to print on that huge printer.
So underrated. AMAZING video
Propane(gas) water heater and run the water channels under the bed 😅 you can use an adjustable thermostat (similar to one like in a car) to regulate the flow and control temperature. Or just use that to blow warm air (indirectly) at the bed to warm it up and use electric to keep/stabilize the temperature.
Just a reminder that those Power outlets are not rated for continuous 16A but rather 10A. 16A is only for a short while.
Ive seen many electric car chargers (and forklift chargers in industrial enviroments) where the whole socket burned out and nearly set the building on fire.
would suggest the blue CEE 16A 1 Phase for such applications. Those also have the benefit, that you always have the same polarity (N+L) on your wiring.
This will very briefly use that much power, once heated it doesn't get to half a Kw. Either way good to know, thanks!
Impresionante como siempre. Eres el puto amo
assuming you are printing with PLA you should consider the parts under the heating bed. it will deform over time. but if not, great job buddy!
Yea, hopefully he's not printing all his printer parts in PLA. They ALL should be ABS.
You would be surprised what pla can take. I certainly was on an all pla printer I made.
@@8BitLife69 abs is shit
@@blake_schwanke I had some prints got deformed just by sitting in a room for few days. and it wasnt that hot. and since then i stopped using pla all together. i also helped a friend for her art instillation, and hers was deformed as well from keeping it with her for just 3 days before the exhibition. i just dont want to take the risk, even tho i tried few different PLA brands.
@@MrPistolero911 Interesting. I do agree abs is great if you've got a capable machine. 90 percent of what I print is abs on my voron.
The lack of load switching due to no zero crossing (DC loads) has bit me more than once. It's comforting to see someone else make that mistake. :D
I'd FLIR the bed to see how uniform the heating is, and if possible, adding a low res thermal camera sensor such as an MLX90640 might prove useful.
Love your videos. Always well put together and informative. Thank you. Is everything designed by you?
Very cool! Err warm! One thing with SSRs I've found is that they have a non-negligible leakage current - enough to trip RCD breakers if you think there's no voltage.... Personal experience..... 🤣
Now I'm waiting for a Miranda Armada since we already have a tank.... A battle ship would be interesting! 🤔
Dude that's incredible! I've been following you for quite some time now and you inspire me to one day build my own 3D Printer!...... Buuuuut for now I'll leave that up to you haha, looking forward to the next stage!
Omg YES IV BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
Great video as usual. 🙂
When heating up, you could start one or two at a time, so then it will not overload your switches.
One thing to consider would be a layer of insulation on top of the bed. You could cut it anyway you want. This has helped me get heated beds to temp faster, and you could even have pieces of insulation over beds you are not heating to protect the glass and aluminium from conducting heat away from the 1 quadrant you are using as fast.
Is a three minute warmup phase a big deal though? With printing on this scale it would seem pretty insignificant compared to the time of the actual print. How long does it take on a typical printer? I have never owned a 3d printer so I'm not keyed in on what really matters and what doesn't.
@@olekaarvaag9405 on small beds that run 12v without an enclosure, it can take mine almost ten minutes. He is using engine block heaters, so they are probably about 230v. So for him,vit is less about heat up time and more about energy consumption.
Muy chulo lo que esta haciendo....
Awesome project!
I wonder if you can place a 3D printed tuned mass dampener on those cross cable tensioners. Maybe even tie in with Klipper and use an accelerometer to parametrically set the tuned mass dampeners?
It looks like you could have used your 3 phase supply for the heaters, just wire them up as single phase heaters and spread them across the different phases.
You could for example have:
L1 - 2x bed heaters
L2 - 1x bed heater + motors
L3 = 1x bed heater + hot end heater
I wouldn't have soldered the heater wires together given their ratings - I'd have used a butt-crimp for the wire-to-wire joints and ring-crimps for the wire-to-SSR joints.
I'm not convinced that the quadrant system will work properly as the aluminium plate will act as a heat spreader. I think it would have been more effective to have four separate aluminium plates with a small gap between them.
not using 3-phase is a big mistake. You can always combine 3phase into 1phase in build like this, but once you decide to go 1 phase, there is recreating half of wiring.
I'm always wondering why ppl use aluminum bed under a glass instead of using only the glass. Great work, again!
You are too awesome! I have no clue why you don't have a million subs.
Ivan, Your a crazy genius 🙂
I've never thought about the diode to split the power requirement. Maybe could have joined 2 heaters together on a single ssr and swapped polarity on one of the diodes to make it work, but you would have lost the ability to control all 4 heaters independently. Nice build! Can't wait to see it finished!
He should have went with 3-phase power
This printer is a monster!
Gonna need a really big glue stick for that bed... This thing is shaping up really nicely. I'm looking forward to a couple years down this line where you'll use this to make an even bigger printer. Thanks for sharing!
SO whats after this, a print in place tank? would actually love to see an updated mini-tank build :)
And Ivan let's the magic smoke escape. At least you were able to compensate without changing boards.
The quadrant control on the bed is a good feature. Not sure I would have thought of that.
This thing is moving along nicely. Now for a dual extruder on a 1mm nozzle. ;)
You are amazing man.
Very nice. You should consider testing components, wiring, connections, etc. in isolation before attaching to the circuit board.
For initial heating, what about heating each quadrant to a temp over 60, say 65-70, then switch to another quadrant, and maintain the 60 as the other warms up, pausing the warming only long enough to get the maintenance temp. Or, cycle the warming sections, maybe 2 at a time, might take a bit longer, but, should allow for the draw needed, also, gives time for heat soak.
happy to see the video:D i hope you do more 3d printers in future like an overengineered one =)
so when do you come out with your own line of giant flex plates for your giant printers? love the content, keep up the great work.
You should try wiring the bed in series-parallel (2 parallel banks of heaters in series).
This is the first 3D printer I've seen that scares the crap out of me
Ingenious, what else! Thanks
(Shouting at screen:) You are not supposed to solder those thermal fuses. You crimp them!
(And they do exist for low values)
I wish I would have heard you tbh. I haven't been able to find them in lower values but it makes sense. I'll look harder next time.
@@ivanmirandawastaken Sefuse goes as low as 73°C in the datasheet I just googled. (Sefuse datasheet)
This feels like a good candidate for multiple extruders. Could do a large nozzle paired with a small, or dual materials, or run 2 prints at the same time. assuming control works out.
Magic Blue Smoke!!
That is a outstanding printer that you are making. When you get it done you can print a big wheel for adults... Do you ever sell the big printers that you make?
Doing a great job
Gracias Ivanito :)
I'm new to this project. It looks amazing so far. The attention to details and making it "clean" is on point. Dumb question; how are the points removed? Does it just lift off the glass with a scraper/spatula? I seem to remember people using gluestick or some other adhesive on glass, but that might just be a thing of the past now. And how do you switch the heat fuse if it is triggered?
I look forward to see this become closer and closer to being finished.
Disregard: refreshed the page and now see that someone already mentioned this.
Just a note about the power usage: you may have more breathing room than you think. Your original design with the 1/2 wave rectifier would have effectively been a 50% duty cycle for each heater, so if you did your original math right you might be able to reduce the PWM cycle even further and still hit the desired performance levels. Also, if you have the ability to set the PWM timings on the relays separately, you could have them running at 50% duty cycle and implement your 1/2 wave by setting the PWM timings on two heaters to be offset by a cycle. (so that two heaters are on and two are off at any given moment.)
looking forward to the first print! a massive benji?
Plug 2 heaters in one outlet and 2 in a separate fused outlet and you shouldn't have any issues. You will probably need at least one more anyway for the extrusion heater. I would look around the house and map out outlets and which fuses they are on so you can divide up the power properly. Either that or install some dedicated larger current separate circuit breakers and run appropriately large wires.
Considering that he is in EU(Oulet), he doesn't even need to do that. Just a three phase socket that share the same ground will suffice.
Tüv says no. You are not allowed to mix fuses a you can do some nasty accidents by doing so.
He's not in a house though, right? It's like a rented storage unit or something I thought.
@@MisterMakerNL yes you can, that is like saying you can't run 2 heaters on 2 different outlets you absolutely can run them on separate outlets.
Great video. I saw those SSR's and knew you had an issue immediately. Interesting solution though.
Will you ever do a plasma cutter project or a waterjet?
Also, even putting glass doors and top would help preserve heat and keep the amp draw down.
Re: Thermal Fuses. 1. Better to crimp them rather than solder, probably for obvious reasons. 2. For this application, a better solution probably would be a surface mount resettable thermal switch. Similar to what is used on say a tea kettle or electric griddle. You can get them in lower ratings and they use spade connectors so no soldering to them is required. And they can be screwed to the bottom of your aluminum build plate with a small dab of thermal paste.
for the resin gears just mix a small amount of flexible resin with your normal resin to make it bit less brittle
Crazy and Inspiring ;) As uusal Amazing work !!
There is a type of thermal switch that doesn't kill itself when tripped, and close when they cool off - some are used in ovens Fischer&Pykel use 190C tl-60 switches in Elba ovens good for 3.6kW.
U could try to use a vacuum bed for Part holding instead of the heated bed
You put a metal clamp, ie, maybe an alligator clip, on the lead of the thermal fuse to stop the heat getting to the body of the TF when you solder it.
Hi Ivan, quite impressed with your work. Just a thought for the bed heating, cut a removable insulation pad for the top too so you can heat that massive area faster with less power. I'm not familiar with 3d printing so I don't know if that's running throughout the build(i hope not) but if you're running that in a room, do your best to recapture the heat, that could be a bonkers amount of money to run.
Typically you have to run the heated bed for the duration of the print, or else the glass contracting is liable to cause parts to detach.
Hi nice build.
Lo único que no me gusta es que no esté en castellano aunque sea los subtítulos,amo ver las locuras de impresoras que hace este Man😍
you should limit the max power of the mates in either way. you dont want your buildplate to heat up that fast. even on smaller 300/400/500mm printers the max power is limited to 60% to give the buildplate time to expand and soak in the heat.
A more straightforward way to split the power among two heaters is to wire them in series.
How do you turn them on individually when connected in series?
Any reason why you don't switch between two pairs of heating pads to be on?
Would that not draw the same as your half bridge rectifier solution that didn't pan out?
Or for even more even heating, cycle them around and have two pairs on at all time like:
1, 2 On. 3, 4 Off;
2, 3 On. 4, 1 Off;
3, 4 On. 1, 2 Off;
4, 1 On. 2, 3 Off;
Repeat till hot.
There's no option for that that I could find in the firmware.
To bad.
Anyway, great project.
Looking forward to seeing it in fully working order.
Was going to ask the same thing 😃
Thanks bro..
Комментарий в поддержку канала и ролика, а также труда мастера.
Boy is that thing gonna warp like crazy...
What about an "smart" array of small heating beds together with underlayed insulation?
I would make even more heating zones tbh, I would probably put one of those (or a bit smaller) on the center, and then a bunch of smaller ones around it that I could turn on however I wanted. Most of the prints will always use the center one no matter what and then I could just turn on smaller ones where the bigger prints touched.
I love how clean your work is. Very tight and tidy workmanship.
I also appreciate how you stay cool (at least on camera) when things go badly.
Best to combine higher power wires using wago connectors or somesuch instead of soldering.
Can't wait for the first round of lifesized prints to come off this
7:08 "Miranda Mini" 😂😂
Maybe this is a situation where instead of using the cheap Chinese SSRs that fail closed, you should use one with built-in protection. Also not a big fan of the in-line rectifier diodes under heat shrink. They could get quite hot.
And I'd generally keep to the European color coding for mains cabling. Particularly for PE, it is compulsory. Colors are blue for neutral, brown, black and grey for live, and green-yellow for PE. And I personally feel like the printer should have it's own GFCI.
For PE you should use a multimeter, and check that resistance between metal parts and the PE in the power cord is always well below one Ohm.
I would also wire the heating in a way that it is failsafe. So even when the control board gets stuck with the PWM, or an SSR fails closed, the bed should never reach destructive temperatures (or blow fuses). Otherwise I wouldn't let it print unattended.
I agree basically with all that you said. I didn't have the proper wiring at hand at the moment so I went with what was going to work but it will be changed before putting the machine into production but not because color coding (which is important, I'm not dismissing that) but because the gauge is the incorrect one in every single cable in there. It will barely work for testing but it doesn't have the safety margin required. This is a machine that I'm designing and building along the way so mistakes and improvisation are a part of the process and once the video is uploaded a source of knowledge as I also learn from the comments 👊
@@ivanmirandawastaken My biggest fear here is that the max power is well above the power required to sustain temperature. If the control board and thermal fuse fails, and the heating keeps going, it will eventually heat up the metal frame to a point that your 3D printed parts will melt.
So the quality of the thermal fuse is really important, and I'd test that behavior. I personally would try if wiring two heating mats in series gives you already enough power for sustained printing.
Or even better, use heating mats that have PTC built-in. Although not sure if they exist in the required temperature range. Water beds use them for example, as overheating would be quite catastrophic.
you should build a full rectifier, in that way the power company won't be mad with you
I am thinking, if you say that these silicone pads are too poweful (and i've seen that it is what it is), feeding them through a transformer at 110v should make a whole lot of difference, to the point of using 1250w at full tilt. Yeah, it'd add another component to the system, but i'm guessing that it'd be worth it for the reduced consumption, and you'd still be able to use just around 300w to heat a single quadrant and about 50w ish to maintain it while printing. Sounds fine to me!
PE should be green-yellow! I agree with Alexander Gräf.