DENVER BROKE UP A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM THAT HAD DEVELOPED CHEMISTRY ALREADY SINCE THEN THEY HAVE STRUGGLED SHOWS YOU HOW IMPORTANT ROLE PLAYERS REALLY ARE
The nba game is declining because major media don’t promote the talent and who is playing good and winning so the casual fans don’t know how good some guys and the teams are. Lastly no defense is played. You see star players go in the lane and the guy defending him don’t even put his hands up and still get a foul no contact. They have to let them play a little defensive role not just lanes to the basket
And to go with this. The people who discuss ball only talk surface level, so the average fan doesn't even know what they are looking at even when they do watch. I'm not a football guy but it looks like the average football fan knows more about the sport and it's players and they all wear helmets. Sh*ts embarrassing
Michael Jordan is a great example of how a triple-double style of basketball isn't reliable for winning. His 1988 season demonstrated that he could play this style, but it came at a cost. Coming from the previous season, Jordan sacrificed help defense activity, his turnover rate increased, his Defensive Win Shares (DWS) and Defensive Box Plus/Minus (DBPM) decreased, and ultimately, the team's win rate dropped. However, in the 1989 season, when Phil Jackson took over, Jordan adjusted his approach. He toned down his offensive control, which led to an improvement in his defensive statistics and an increase in the team's win rate. Although Jordan still exhibited some triple-double tendencies in 1989, he seemed to fully commit to a role-based team play by the 1990 season. His help defense activity became more apparent, and both his DWS, DBPM, and the team's win rate continued to rise. Jordan had already developed critical off-ball skills since his rookie season in 1984, making him effective in a motion-rich system. He possessed an active off-ball game with skills like flares, pops, curls, juke-and-fade, and spin-away. He was a lethal catch-and-shoot mid-range threat and a catch-and-lay close/inside range threat. It took Phil Jackson to fully unlock Jordan's off-ball abilities to benefit both the triangle offense and Jordan himself. Jordan's rapid adjustment to this system within just two years highlights his coachability and versatility. In contrast, LeBron James' game appears less adaptable. Over the span of 20 years, his off-ball game has remained lacking. While he possesses some off-ball skills, he rarely uses them effectively in games. His lateral movement limits the reliability of these skills. Despite his perceived athleticism, LeBron's slow lateral movement makes him susceptible to being beaten by opponents, although he can recover quickly in open space, which explains his numerous chasedown blocks. His off-ball game mainly consists of running from the perimeter and cutting in for easy layups, a skill he excels at because it requires running space. Consequently, he often camps near the top of the key because he needs the running space, which gives him more cherry-picking opportunities. This lack of off-ball movement hampers LeBron's ability to properly distribute his gravity like Jordan does. LeBron's lack of off-ball skills explains why it's hard to think of him as ever having a catch-and-shoot game. LeBron's scoring tends to help shorten a deficit or tie the game but doesn't do much to add to a leading score. He often delays important shots simply because he doesn't have the skill to accommodate them. He shoots slightly below 40% outside of 3 feet (not including 3-point range) and just below 38% in the midrange, despite having a career FG% over 50%. He is an "efficient" scorer, but actually an unreliable one. In contrast, Jordan actively distributes his gravity and doesn't delay shot opportunities when his team needs to tie, take the lead, secure a lead, or win the game. Even if Jordan misses more shots than LeBron while scoring the same points, his team's offensive efficiency remains higher and intact because of how he distributes his gravity, keeping the offense flowing. LeBron does have great passing skills, but he often makes errant passes and fumbles the ball for no reason, leading to turnovers that cost his team momentum, leads, and games. LeBron's scoring style, along with controlling facilitation and his rebounding style, is largely a factor of the team's game plan rather than his actual rebounding skills. Specifically on defensive rebounds, LeBron often cherry-picks. Instead of closing out his man on the perimeter and contesting shots, he positions himself near the paint to increase his chances of getting a defensive rebound. This approach makes his defensive play appear more like an illusion aimed at grabbing rebounds rather than genuinely defending. His unhelpful scoring playstyle, which allows him to score big and preserve his FG% but often delays crucial shots not only in clutch situations but in typical play, along with controlling facilitation and fraudulent rebounding tactics, impacts the team's effectiveness. This style of play, often referred to as "Bron ball," frequently contributes to his team losing a lead and losing games. LeBron's lack of movement and cherry-picking the shots he wants to take, rather than what the team needs, is a big clue as to why he has managed to maintain numbers close to his career averages even over 20 seasons. Meanwhile, Jordan, who had knee and leg issues by his mid-30s, would still have more mileage in his legs in his first 10 seasons than LeBron in his first 15 seasons, despite LeBron playing more games and minutes. Despite LeBron's impressive statistics on paper, his inability to distribute his gravity and generate movement negatively affects his team's scoring efficiency. His unhelpful scoring playstyle, which allows him to score big and preserves his FG% but often delays crucial shots not even in clutch situations but in typical play, along with controlling facilitation and fraudulent rebounding tactics, impacts the team's effectiveness. This style of play, often referred to as "Bron ball," frequently contributes to his team losing a lead and losing games. Watching him play reveals these shortcomings, which are not visible on the stat sheet. This also explains why LeBron has often needed a lot of all-star and superstar players just to keep the team afloat and have winning chances despite his seemingly impressive numbers on paper.
@@Mandownsports Sure thing, but I stil disagree with your take on Nikola Jokic. How I observe how he plays, he doesn't even look like he plays "triple double basketball". He doesn't really stagnate his movement and camp in one spot like LeBron, Harden, or Luka, he does move around quite a bit, especially when setting up pick-and-roll plays, or give-and-gos, he also do off-ball curls for catch-and-shoot middys and catch-and-lays, even sometimes catch-and-shoot 3s, or for better post-up positions, he does this quite a lot actually. Problem is he's quite slow in shooting it after catching, which is why he often do phonebooth moves to create some space first before shooting or laying it up. It's not on the same level of activity as MJ, Steph, Kobe, or Reggie, but Jokic does have movement inducing skills to help maintain or increase team scoring efficiency. His facilitation doesn't even look like he's forcing to look for assists. He has, I don't know how to say it, "inhuman" reaction time in recognizing scoring opportunities for other players the moment they have position, he will find it almost immediately, if it's available and if it's needed. He doesn't just force it into traffic or fumble the ball trying to force a play, and commit a turnover. For how many assists he accumulates, he actually has a very low turnover rate, simply because he actually facilitate only when its reasonably accessible and not when he wants to. The principles and results of his facilitation is more comparable to Steve Nash's and Jason Kidd's, instead of someone like LeBron, Westbrook, Harden. His rebounding is also more based on actual rebounding skills, size, and playing position. He does box out alot, he does flash inside to grab offensive boards and second-change points, and his offensive and defensive rebounding numbers has a well-balanced distribution as he does flash and crash inside, instead of relying on a gameplan to determine who gets a defensive rebound and stat-padding rebounding numbers solely through defensive rebounds, as defensive rebounds are very easy to plan for unlike offensive rebounds. He also doesn't cherry-pick defensive rebounds, unlike some people who look like they're guarding a spot but is really focused on getting in position for a defensive rebound instead of actually playing defense, which is why even if their man is in front of them and about to shoot, they will fail to close out because in their mind is _"if someone shoots, I'll be in position to get this defensive rebound, then I'll have the ball to start the offense, then I will get an assist"_. And you most certainly cannot cherry-pick offensive rebounds, which he gets a 3rd of his rebounds. Defensively, he still puts effort. He will still flash to play defense on the other side even if he or someone one the team turns the ball over, he doesn't let his team play 4v5, he will actually try to run to the other side even if his team still ends up playing 4v5 because of his footspeed. He will still try to close-out, swing his arms around his head if he thinks a pass is coming behind him and onto his man to try and intercept a pass, he will flail his arms frequently towards a driving player to try and swipe the ball away, instead of just looking at them doing nothing. He's slow but he still tries. What I do notice about him is he's more calibrated to swiping/stealing the ball than contest/block a shot, which I think is his most glaring deficiency. His interior D, and especially his help D is deficient because of his steal/block tendency balance, which I would guess is a result of his lack of athleticism. But if he has to block a shot to save a game or win a game, he will try. And that's the important thing, he may or may not do well on D, but if you watch him, he actually put effort on D, he doesn't rest on defense as you might think he does like the "others". Jokic's playstyle doesn't quite fit your "Hero Ball" criteria, it also certainly doesn't quite fit your "Team Ball" criteria. I say it's somewhere in between. And that I think is the flaw in your categorization. It's actually based on a logical fallacy called a _false dichotomy_. Remember you are dealing with human beings here, they have different tendencies, physical attributes, mental attributes, demeanors, skillset, etc. You can't really sort them in just two categories. More realistically it should be a gradient. I think you're on the right track with your arguments using this "Hero Ball / Team Ball" grouping, but I suggest for a more scientific approach, you change your Hero Ball-Team Ball grouping, into a multi-point scale. It could be 0 to 10, or 0 to 100. Like for example Hero Ball is 0, and then Team Ball is the Max limit, let's say 10. For example, on a scale of Hero Ball to Team Ball, where does Jokic lie on that scale? For example in, my opinion, probably leaning towards Team Ball at a...7 probably? LeBron is definitely near 0 to 3, Westbrook probably a 4, Magic is probably a 6???, MJ is somewhere between 9 to 10, Kobe probably an 8 because he wasn't really as active as MJ with the off-ball game, and overall activity on D, Bird probably an 8 or 9??? Anyway, yeah, change your categorization into a gradient is what I suggest. You're on the right track here, you just have to expand the idea.
@@sportschadPerfectly said! Well done! You & Mel are both correct I’m surprised that with how you see the game & what you wrote & how Mel described his position that you didn’t completely agree with him. With that being said I agree with both your point & with Mel’s point. Mel is correct on this one & maybe you just don’t really understand what he’s trying to articulate
Loved the convo with the second caller. Stern definitely pushed Stars, but when those stars retired, it left a vacuum. Silver needs to promote the top teams whereever they are, small or large market. The Stars will rise to the top naturally. When a fan watches a game for the team, they will continue to watch after the star player retires. The fan who only watches for the star, checks out after that star's retirement.
Good show. On the second caller - I LOVED those low scoring battles with the Pistons, Hest, Knicks, and Pacers... un the same way that u used to love watching Tony Dungy's Buccaneer team - especially when they limited Kurt Warner's Rams to only 11 points in the NFC title game
I know that I will get some or many that will disagree but that is Just how it is/ When I first seen Jokic playing back in 2021: It reminded me of Magic Johnson with those no look dime passes and other kind of passes that I have never seen in a Center before and it was unique and wonderful to see and the thing about him it was (Effortlessness) and it was not rehearsed, or even something he was being force to do, or even something he was trying to make happened. And I will say it again he did it in every game (effortlessness) to where I did not want to miss the Nuggets when they play with his light touch passes, long passes down the court, blind passes & between his opponent's legs passes and I can continue on and on to name the many types & kinds of passes he did without even thinking, it was spontaneous & instinctive with all that I said, I know that he Just so happened to be a facilitator as a Big Man and Just so happen to be an efficient scorer and every time he touch the ball and then pass it to his teammates 9 times out of 10 they would not miss. And his teammates begin to get interviews talking about Nikola and Michael P. Jr. was told when he 1st came to the team that if Jokic wanted to he can score even more. And he shared that Jokic do not care about #'s and all of that, he care about the team and making sure that each player on the team get the best possible look to be open for easy shots and if they double team him that Nikola is selfless to where we know that we will get the ball, and he said they just had to be ready & expect it. And that is what brought them to win their 1st championship by being the Facilitator but that got loss somewhere and everything changed. The Older Isaiah Thomas was at one of the Final games and said that Jokic had the answer to the test: And this is the way he describes Jokic/ if you do this, he's going to do that, if you double team him, he will pass it, and if you do that, he will do this.
These guys were all the best players on their college teams. Most of them can play that’s why they are in the NBA. When the ball is shared and touches a lot of hands it creates energy
Honestly this just tells you a lot about today's NBA because if jokic was playing back in the day in the '90s no way in hell he would be dribbling the ball up to court as a point guard his handles are not that good. They would Jack him up all the time. They would make him give the ball up. That's how soft this era is!
Bingo. And I like Joker, but yeah, smaller players would strip the ball from him all the time if he tried bringing the ball up back then. Could you imagine him trying to bring the ball up against the likes of MJ, Pippen or Sidney Moncrief?
Jack Jokic up? Have you watch him play? You do realize he is like 6'11 290, incredibly strong, and thrives on contact? And whether he brings the ball up the court or not is completely irrelevant lol.
@@MandownsportsI think there’s a conspiracy They don’t want Nuggets to continue to win. They want to continue to push the fraud from Akron smh When Bulls won their 1st ring they kept the team together, when Kobe & Shaq won their 1st ring they kept the team together, when even Superteam Heat won their 1st ring they kept the team together. For some reason Nuggets get rid of their core smh GSW have opportunity to get bigs & get real help last couple of years but don’t smh Timberwolves get rid of Towns & disrupt their chemistry It just makes the West easier smh
This isn't the 90s. Everyone can score and make plays. So what you have a super star, a super star can't beat good teams alone, ask Jordan 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen with ZERO final appearances. He needed Rodman, and Pippen.
this supserstar players needing more "help" thing kills me. If you need help, doesn't that scream that you aren't good enough on your own? Lebron has needed help his whole career, how does the goat need supserstar help every year to even think about succeeding? Jokic looks like he's going to need help, but needing that help speaks volumes about your superstar status. People like MJ and Barkley were REAL superstars who carried teams on their backs, who do we see really doing that today? There really aren't many true superstars, even in this easier era.
@@Xenotypic It's not about needing more help as much as trimming the fat. Murray isn't what he was, and the bench has literally 2 decent players. They need to shake up the bench, maybe get some young guys in there and build them up, but moving Murray out of the starting rotation would be a huge benefit to the team.
@jdsilvestri lolololol, nowhere near the level of help Lebron needed to succeed. Their first 3 peat they had MJ and Pip... Yeah... 2nd 3-peat they had MJ, Pip, Rodman (rebounder and decent defender), Kukoc (draft pick)... Yeah.
@@jdsilvestri not even close to the same. it wasn't looked at as a super team, and as the other commenter said, whatt about the first 3 peat? pippen was a draft pick who was built up to what he eventually was through building up the team and it's players. they build a dynasty rather than trading to make a superteam for a cheap, instead possible win. it's pathetic, you're not a competitor on the same kind of level as the greats if you want to team up with the best competition. you're really not even competing at that point. modern superteams make for a hollow victory without the rags to riches story that people love sports so much for.
@@MandownsportsBoth of you guys are correct here Curry does have 2 legit rings BUT there’s a high possibility that GSW does brake up that team if they didn’t win in 17 & 18.
I’ve watched several Nuggets games this year as well… If I’m not mistaken, it’s the same core of players Jokic won the chip with. Jokic is nice, but Jokic also averages over 100 touches per game, the only player in the league to average that many touches per game … Jokic needs to help himself by playing better defense, the Pelicans, the lowly Pelicans were exposing his weakness just last night… Granted he’s a beast on offense, primarily because there aren’t any, or many quality bigs to match up with him… I actually like Jokic, but his style of play tends to “stat” padding ~ because he always has the ball on offense. The Nuggets made their comeback last night, mainly when Jokic was on the bench ~ and the Pelicans weren’t getting easy dunks in the high screen and role. No shade to Jokic, but it is what it is. Porter Jr, Gordon, Murray were all starters on that championship team were they not? Or am I wrong?
@@mobrown1198 I think a lot of Mel's points are right, but since he's lumping Jokic in with Lebron and Luka... His reasoning for those issues is very wrong. Jokic isn't standing there, dribbling the ball forever. He gets it out of his hands fast... It just keeps coming back. idk if the guys are told to just keep the ball moving or to give it back to Jokic when they don't see a play, but something has to change. He has the most touches but the least time per touch with the ball of any superstar.
@@mobrown1198 He has the most touches per game but the lowest time per touch. The Nuggets pass a lot, but the last two seasons they pass it back to Jokic WAY too often.
I think it's more they need to get rid of Jamal and actually get a game plan when Jokic's on the bench. They just leave empty space on the floor where he would've been. Somebody needs to step up and either fill that space, or the coaching staff needs to get their heads out of their asses and tell the players to stop panic passing to Jokic. It's like the team gave up on their confidence and just keeps sneding the ball to him, or Murray just dribbles forever and throws up bad shots.
Yes! ...and, uh, MDS, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Jamal Murry is a more talented Robert Pack, but he's just as inconsistent. You really think Jokic decides he runs the point, or is that coaching? Y'all crack me up. They do have a game plan, but they have no depth because they bet the farm on Murray's sorry ass. And same, if you were accusing Westbrook, only dude on his team, with his triple doubles stat padding. Jokic runs the point because he's the best ball-hander they have...silly.
@ Yall so flip flopping shit is crazy !!! Idk how good LeBron James is cuz he’s so hyped but without Murray you ain’t beating the lakers , you can’t beating the wolves in your fkn title run . So idk what not that good means but buddy been goin toe toe with superstars while Jokic just looks for mis matches the whole fkn game ! Lmao stop it
Fun fact, I never add sugar to my coffee. Although I disagree with some of Mel's takes here, the fact to the matter remains, trading MPJ for Lavine is asinine. I don't know what is going on with the NBA but looking for trades and drama ain't gonna help the ratings and what is more important ain't gonna help building better teams. A solid squad is galvanized through the grind, practicing and training.
I feel like none of the core guys who built Denver into a championship team should not be traded. It would be an insult for Denver to Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr., or Aaron Gordon. I feel Denver can win just by developing their talent they have already but I feel they need a back up center who can defend and rebound when Jokic isn't on the court.
@psychedelicvault6951 unless they ask for more money than they worth or they ask out for some reason. Does anybody know why KCP and the others went out? It's kinda weird to me.
@@Fixundfertig1 I think KCP did want more money on his contract. I think Denver would be better if he stayed but who knows because he's been struggling with the Orlando Magic (8 pts, 40% shooting from the field, 30% from 3). Christian Braun was great substitute for KCP because he's been playing very well for and he's younger and more athletic than him.
This is not the same Nuggets team. Some of the biggest plays made in their Championship run came from Brown's effort plays, defense, & shot making, as well as Pope's defense & shot making. Murray hasn't reached anywhere NEAR the same level of play. Jokic isn't a great on ball defender, but how many deflections & steals does he get? Replace Murray with a 17-20ppg player who is CONSISTENTLY on the court & the team would significantly improve. Brown & Pope were 2 of their best perimeter defenders.
Nikola did nothing wrong to you, the basketball community or the sport. Lately , you , ticket , and 2raw have made it your business to attack him cause you don't want him to get the MVP award again this year. Is it because he is white, european , both or sometrhing else? Cause you seem to be quite persistent ...
@@volfi123 it's funny I make the same criticisms about Lebron, Harden and Westbrook and nobody has a problem. But if I critique a non-black player it's a racial issue. Get off my channel if you can't handle a honest basketball critique against a white player but you're ok with critique against black players
@@Mandownsports Lebron and Harden have harmed the sport. What are you talking about? You know that! You put Jokic on the same level as Lebron?!?!?! Stop it... It would be honest if all of you didn't have the same critique all of a sudden . It is becoming very obvious what a group of you is trying to do lately so stop it... If you like old school basketball then you should promote players with Jokic's mentality and character , not trashtalk them... Thank god yannis is not white or you attack him too...
@@Mandownsports Don't put Lebron and Harden on the same level as Jokic...You know better than that. Jokic's character is nothing like the players you mentioned.
@@Mandownsports whos close to Joker right now, who can do what he can? ''Jordan or X player should have won more MVP's'' - Voter fatigue is a really bad thing and it needs to go.
Ok Mel I usually agree with you on most things, but not everything here. I do agree with everything you said regarding Joker. But you said when porter and Murray was out they struggled and barely made the playoffs. If you take 2 starters away from any team what do you expect to happen? So that was kinda of a silly take. And Martin wasn’t accurate in regard to porter being able to get his own shot, he’s totally capable of doing that. But ,Lavine is a much better offensive player than he is by far, lavine has been the number 1 offensive threat for his team. No matter what team porter goes too he’s not offensively gifted enough to be a number 1 option. But yes your right the trade wouldn’t make any sense because they still want everyone to play through joker
Right now the playmaker splits for Denver is around 70% Jokic, 20% Murray and 10% Westbrook. MPJ is just there to spread the floor, when Lavine replace MPJ which player is gonna sacrifice their playmaker opportunities to allow Lavine to produce more than MPJ? If it's not Jokic than you're gonna have the sane problem then that u have now and if it is Jokic then he could've done it all along for MPJ. You get my point?
I can’t lie I like jokers style of play more than Luka’s style I think Kyrie would look even better playing with joker over Luka now the defensive end is the bigger issue for me with the joker
@@MandownsportsI know what ur trying to say as far as offense he gets into the stat padding as well but because he’s a post player that limits how much he can have the ball because he can’t bring the rock up court every play and initiate the offense like Luka and Lebron and Harden do maybe that’s why it doesn’t look as bad to me as the defense which for me is his biggest issue and if he took a step back from some of his offensive production to play better defense that would help the Nuggets and his legacy as a player much more for me
@@Mandownsports Because the team cannot stop leaning on him... You'd think they'd have worked on playing without Jokic on the court while he was out with the birth of his kid, but nope... They just played mediocre basketball and barely beat a terrible team. I wish someone would ask the coaching staff the real questions on this topic... Why are you forcing Jokic to do everything when he should be scoring, rebounding, and protecting the paint?
Nah you're off on this one bro. Regardless of how big or slow Jokic may be. Denver's offensive is far more efficient when Jokic is on the floor vs when he's not on the floor. If I don't think he's stat padding, Denver is just a far more effective offensive unit when he's running Point from the post. I think your take is a reaction to the MEDIA perception around Jokic's teammates.
Honestly not all assists are created equal. There are amazing assists that lead to an easy basket. Then there is just swinging the ball to to the open shooter. That’s actually very simple if you did not do anything like a drive and dish
I think Jokic is being unfairly labeled here. 1st off I don't think Jokic is blatantly stat padding, I just think he has a coach much like how doug collins was with mj who says just give the ball to him and everybody get out of the way. Its easy to just put the ball in one guys hand and let him run the floor, you don't really have to coach at that point. 2nd point the needing more help argument for jokic compared to lebron is more authentic. You could say its misguided and wrong and i would agree but there's a difference between suggesting 1 guy maybe needs some help as opposed to this year end year out media campaign to demand players on your behalf and not just any player but the best players no matter the circumstance. Nobody is demanding the best players in the league go play with jokic like they do with lebron
He is not blatantly stat padding but he is playing a play style that's more conducive to accumulating stats than it is for winning. Why would any great player choose that route? You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you wanna win without stacking your teams you have to sacrifice alot of what you can do so your team as a while can do more. Tim Duncan sacrificed his numbers so Parker and Ginobli could star in their roles.
@@Mandownsports Tim Duncan was never an assist guy even before parker and ginobli. jokic has played this way his entire career, even when they won. mike malone just like phil jackson did with jordan has to take the ball out of jokic's hand
@granthill24 Tim Duncan didn't wanna be an assist guy because that's the point guards job. Everyone has to do their job for the team to operate at the highest level which is why Duncan got 5 rings. Jokic gotta decide if he wants the stats or the rings
MEL; the CALL IN GUEST talking about the LEAGUE MERGING with OVERSEAS GLOBAL answered THE QUESTION we chatted about awhile back... INTENTIONALLY WATERING DOWN the NBA..
The NBA becoming more a global game is a good thing in my opinion because overseas players often work harder than American players because they aren't spoiled by the AAU and some of the overseas players have grown up in worst poverty than players in America.
@psychedelicvault6951 That's "this" GENERATION; that's ALREADY been HIJACKED & SABOTAGED since GROWN MEN MENTALITY has been REPLACED with IMATURE SOFT PRIVILEGE MENTALITY..
Trade Butler to Denver for Murray & some picks. Butler isn't a great scorer, but he could fill the perimete defender gap & provide 15-20 ppg. Put Russ, Butler, & Jokie together, and they're some of the hardest playing guys in the league.
Listen, I watch your show, but that was a ridiculous take of what you just said about joker. Joker didn’t have the help that LeBron had Kobe had. To say otherwise you’re just lying.
Jokic has had GREAT help, what are you talking about. I will say what Man Down cannot say. This is about race. You dudes want to continually praise these overrated dudes of your ethnic background. He is stat-padding in an era where there is ..literally..NO DEFENSIVE resistance. If this dude played in the Hakeem, David Robinson, Ewing, Mourning..era..He would get SMASHED. Jokic has had a great team for years. His LUCK has ran out.
I live in Denver the coach was the dog that put the fire in them he made them go hard. The year Denver won it was the perfect time they team chemistry was at all time high and the west was weak. Now it’s like LeBron with the refs making sure they stay in the game and on the line . Joker throw bows no call
Ignorant comment on your part to say the West was Weak when Jokic had to play against Lebron, AD, KD, Devin Booker, Antman, Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert, Jimmy Butler, and Bam Adebayo. 2 all star players on each team Joker played against. A lot of you picked Denver to lose against the Suns and the Lakers but when Jokic destroyed both teams you gave Jamal Murray all the credit and said he carried the team when Jokic led the playoffs in points, rebounds, assists and player efficiency rating. Jamal Murray was great in 2023 but Jokic was easily the main reason Denver won. That's like saying Khris Middleton carried the Bucks when they won because he's a much better shooter than Giannis, when it's clear Giannis is a way better player.
@@jose.g2753 so you think if KD never joined the Warriors, Steph would've still won in 2021? Interesting. But nah, I stand by my statement, he is a 1 ring superstar. Kobe and Duncan wqs the last of a dying breed.
What you mean more help? Jokic hasn't had any help to begin with in his 10 year career. While LeBron has constantly been playing on superteams. Give Jokic his first all-star teammate of his career, and see Jokic instantly 3-peat.
@@Mandownsports How? Jokic is the opposite of LeBron. Jokic is demanded to win with zero team, when LeBron has always demanded to have more help while he's played with MVP-level teammates for 15 years.
@@Mandownsports On the roster? So, Murray and MPJ should somehow be able to cheer Jokic to win alone? Murray and MPJ have missed entire seasons before age 25. MPJ is as injury prone as Joel Embiid, but Embiid is an MVP and MPJ plays far below all-star level basketball. Everything Jokic needs literally isn't on the roster. 10 years is too long to keep repeating that Jokic should win with G league players. You're a hater.
@penkima4923 his co-stars aren't allstars cuz he is stat padding. How can his co-stars help him if he wants to do everything. Post ups=Jokic, Facilitate=Jokic, Primary Scorer=Jokic, Run the point=Jokic, Fast Break=Jokic. What's left for MPJ to do at an allstar level? Catch and shoot 3s. That's it
If he’s so slow and overweight then he can be stopped very easily. Jokic passes out of post like no other giant before him, out smarts every other “non-slow/non-fat” center in the league and out rebounds every other “non-slow/non-fat” center in the league. Easy solution, slow him down (it it’s possible with how slow he already is). Should be easy to stop from scoring/passing and rebounding, never mind stat padding, the normal stats should be very easy to stop. I’m the biggest Jordan fan you will ever find, but let’s not create video’s because we think Jokic winning all these MVP’s will make people think he’s a 🐐 and is a threat to MJ.
Hand-eye coordination is 'quickness' and athleticism. If Jokic is so slow, why is he unstoppable? ...and he doesn't have to commit a foul every time he goes to the hole like Shaq did...so I don't understand all that 'slow' nonsense. He's not fouling people because he doesn't feel like playing defense, does he? That's slow.
He can be stopped for a couple of reasons. 1) The rules. 2) There are only 2 other real Centers in the league that are worth a damn. He’s plenty stoppable in the 90s, 2000s and the 2010 until 2016.
After the Jordan's Bulls, the Spurs were always my favorite team. They played great basketball. I even liked them above my Miami Heat ( because LeBron was there)
@tankwhite.7036 when Jokic gets 5 rings like Duncan then I'll believe what you're saying but for right now, nba history and Jokic current situation is all the proof we need. Jokic chose stats over rings and now he want more help like Lebron so his team can compete
Give Dan Gilbert credit for getting Lebum, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love on his team. Give Pat Riley and D Wade credit for showing Lebum how to win when they had championships when Lebum didn't. Give the Lakers front office credit for signing Anthony Davis when Lebum missed the playoffs. 😂😂😂
I totally agree 💯 with Mel on this! 💯! With that being said I at least can respect Jokic because he was at least able to win the right way, the organic way with the players he had & he didn’t short cut the winning process by running away and forming Superteams etc. Now to keep it 💯 Nuggets did face weak competition during that Finals run in which they won. I already have Jokic ranked higher then Lebron in my all time great list for that reason and a few others. Like I said, Mel is completely correct on this.
Apples and Oranges... the verdict was out on MPJ a few seasons ago 😂 y'all running out of topics if you really believe Joker is getting the LeBron treatment. So Joker is a crybaby that gets his way at the detriment of the game? He's flopping, arguing, and complaining with no worries of consequence? Y'all gotta stop with this nonsense. Name one teammate the Joker threw under the bus.
Jokic fans are so weird and delusional…forget his stats let’s address him not playing noooo defense. Why doesn’t anyone talk about that? 🤔 He plays on one side of the court and gets praised ridiculously because the stats he puts up. It’s laughable…the standard is way too low for all these guys. If you think the way Jokic and the Nuggets play is amazing please get your brain checked. Him playing pg is overrated, it just looks good for him and it makes his teammates seem incompetent. No one thinks critically or with logic smh
That's an insult to Jamal Murray to trade for Kyrie Irving even though Kyrie is better than him at basketball. Jamal helped build the Denver Nuggets. Just like it was an insult for Golden State to trade Klay and Golden State is still a mediocre team right now anyway.
Bro I agree with basically everything you say on this show. Daily listener. But are we really comparing Jamal Murray and Tony Parker lol ? I think you gotta re watch 2000s play off spurs.
@mel, what up bro totally agree with you bro 💯... Man I hear a lot of mainstream media praise Jokic and act like they never seen anything like him.. Minnesota K.Love to me was that dude he was on Jokic level what u think
I like your show and normally respect your POV but you obviously have something against Jokic. Perkins is an idiot at the best of times. Unlike Lebron Jokic has little help. Look at his +- with him on the floor vs him off. As a Canadian I love Murray, but he has been very inconsistent since he got hurt. Jokic 's game has all 3 elements which he does well: scoring, rebounding and passing. One skill sets up the other. He just simply is a good rebounder with his size and talent. Without his scoring, how good would his passing be and without his passing how good of scorer would he be. He is an awkward scorer, but he does it well and sometimes he is the only one who can. His passing ability is second to none and unlike Lebron Jokic can pass inside as well. Just because we have not seen a big man do what he is doing dose not make him a stat padder. BTW Chamberlain had this ability as well. One more thing about Perkins as well as a couple other high profile commentators, is he is a racist or at least a xenophobe. The international players may be the ssviours of the NBA, not the destroyers.
@@davidblair140 yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, every star in the league can be critiqued except the white players and if you critique them you have sumtn against them or you are racist. We get it bro. Thanks for the comment but I'm gonna keep critiquing every player based on what I can observed and from my view point everything I said in the video is true
They have teamed up to slander Jokic. 2raw, tickettv, brandonlovessports ( who has said clearly in the past that he doesn't want european players in the nba, i reported his video and had to take it down ). What he says makes no sense and he knows it perfectly well.
This is your worst take I’ve heard. You said it yourself…if they’re doing unnecessary stuff. He doesn’t. There’s been so many times where he’ll be close the a triple double and sit out the rest of the game. Lebron don’t do that. Try watching a game or two. He could give a shit less about his stats. When the f is GA a source of knowledge? Just cuz he’s saying something you like, wow
@@jayp1767 I disagree. I think Mel's points apply to the Nuggets, but I don't think Jokic is at fault. I think the team is either just relying on him too much, or the coaches are telling them to get him the ball and let him run the court. He's not sitting there, bringing the ball up the court, taking 420 dribbles and kicking it out with 2 seconds on the shot clock. They've been developing MPJ to be more than a catch and shoot guy... Jamal is more of the guy who dribbles too much and holds the ball too long than Jokic. However, Mel's right that they try to use him for everything, and that's not winning basketball.
Awe. I suppose this was bound to happen. It has to hurt, huh? I mean all this talk about him winning ANOTHER mvp. Him being a white European guy, right? Luckily, Jokic, whom you are now comparing to Lebum, never ever had a modicum of the arrogance Lebum has. Luckily, he doesn't care about stat padding AT ALL, which is pretty obvious. He barely even cares about the nba. He can't wait to get back home, it's a job for him. Luckily, he isn't even on social media, BECAUSE he doesn't care. But I kinda do. So I'll unsub. I'm so sry I saw this vid. I'll probably keep pondering the fact that someone actually dared compare the quiet, kinda goofy, always kind European dude to Lebum. Ffs. Bye dude.
I stop watching after 5 minutes. U really don't know basketball l. U don't watch basketball. Jokic 95% of the time make the right play. Did you see Serbia almost beat USA by himself. Nuggets is running different sets. Again please watch the games. He get double team what u want him to do. Play like Kobe Bryant and shoot off double teams. He 100 times smarter than Kobe.
@ he says Jokic stats pad. Where does he stats pad. Do you know how many times Jokic had 9 assists in a game. Whole lot. He don’t play for stats. He plays to win.
@@Mandownsports furthest from the truth. It’s like America to North Pole. That how far wrong you are about Jokic. Guess he stat padded today. Wow they won by 27. He goes for 32,7,2 shooting 12 for 17 from the field. That without Murray. Like I say u don’t watch the game. You and your panel are casuals to the 100th tee.
2 things here: how do you know whether MPJ is authorised to get his shot or not? You're not in the locker room. Secondly, you give MPJ too much credit; he hasn't shown enough to merit a description of being like KD with his ball-handling. You make it sound like he's a premier shooter; he hasn't done it with consistency enough. Sorry, your analysis is flawed
I'm sad this channel has come to this. I think Jordan is far and away the Goat and do not like Lebron, but I love watching Jokic. I've never seen a player who has such a soft touch for scoring baskets, he just has the sauce, man.
JOKIC bringing the ball up is about taking responsibility off of a NOT 100% MURRAY…simple as that!!! Not like any of the centers is gonna pressure him full court🤷🏾♂️it’s called strategy!!! DENVER HAS THEIR OWN STYLE OF PLAY and THATS THE WAY JOKIC LIKES TO PLAY…Nothing wrong with your team being built around your best player
@@Mandownsports I don’t like LeBron at all I respect him but that’s about it but Jokic is that guy and he way better than Embid and Jokic play 82 games and he is a playoff riser who won 3 mvp and won a chip. Embid ain’t did shit but get paid and win that Jokic mvp trophy fuck you talking about dude
Jokic won with no all star with tougher competition he's nothing like Lebum and not once did you hear him throw his teammates under the bus. A lot of y'all hate on Giannis too when they won without a superteam. Denver has the worst offense in the league when Jokic is off the court when he's on the court they're one of the best offenses in the NBA.
@@Mandownsports Jokic is one of the good things about the NBA including Giannis. They won without superteams and quitting to run to another franchise unlike Lebum. I would think y'all would respect a player like Jokic but y'all don't hold Jamal Murray to a higher standard. Jamal can shoot 6 of 18 from the field and y'all pretend it didn't happen. That's almost like blaming Michael Jordan when Scottie shot 1 for 10 from the field against the Pistons in game 7. That's weak to put all the blame on the best player just because he's the best player, when the second best player isn't playing well.
@psychedelicvault6951 Jokic not having an allstar and his team having the worst offense without him is not a bragging point, that's an indictment of his leadership. That's sad good players like Murray, MPJ and Gordon can't develop into allstars under Jokic's leadership and its even sadder a offensive system can't be develop around him that can operate in his absence
Jokics' statpadding seems to be getting worse every season. I held off at first, and gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I do think that is what he is doing and this year it's at it's peak. There's really no reason for him to be averaging a triple double with this current roster. Also, I've never subscribed to the idea that stats are directly correlated to how good a player is. That is why I never thought Harden was better than DWade. It's also why I think of Jokic he would be a middle of the pack big man in the 90's. His stats are inflated due the era he plays in, and the fact he's feasted on the lack of traditional big men. He still hasn't beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs.
Leaders and record holders for rating player efficiency. On the RACIST BASKETBALL REFERENCE page, before the Nuggets vs New Orleans match, Jokic's PER was 31.86, but according to the last update on 12/24/2024, it was 31.34. With Jokic's performance of 27 points, FG%55, 3P% 66.7, 13 reb., 10 assist., that 3, 1 blk, 1 stl., +/- +6, etc.. As it was a "coincidence" in the season 22/23 when Joki c in the race for the MVP title with the "epileptic" Embiid intervened, the avowed racist Perk implicated Jokica that he won two MVP titles thanks to Aryan blue eyes. He is succeeded by the no less virulent racist Mr. Arenas, who claims that Jokic is dealing with empty numbers, i.e. triple doubles. The empty numbers are when Jokic's main opponent for the MVP title, G. Antetokounmpo, shoots a miserable 17% for 3P, in addition, he shoots a poor FT 61%, and in just one meeting, he shoots a dizzying 26 free throws. In order to get a precise insight into the "empty numbers" this season, Jokic has FT 117/147 against Ganis 167/272, which enables with (+2 from FT per match) 32.7 leads on the list of scorers. In the last 8 matches, Jokic shot a total of 24 FT or 3.0 per match. Therefore, even for Komač's consciousness and conscience, it is indisputably clear what he is talking about. PS When you hear or read the dintag "Best Team" is actually a new name for "Big Marcet" who was godfathered by the late Nick Writ.
@@Mandownsports just say you don't like joker Numbers is the major reason why MJ is considered the goat Points per game is a number dude the scoring title is a number dude and to win defensive player of the Year you have to have great defensive numbers Sports is All about Numbers so accept that fact you clown
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DENVER BROKE UP A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM THAT HAD DEVELOPED CHEMISTRY ALREADY SINCE THEN THEY HAVE STRUGGLED SHOWS YOU HOW IMPORTANT ROLE PLAYERS REALLY ARE
That part
Facts
That’s also very true. Nuggets messed up big time by getting rid of KCP & Brown smh
Other then that everything Mel said is correct
THE NBA IS GARBAGE 🗑 IN THIS ERA SO SAD
Joker is benefiting from a weak era with no big men.
The nba game is declining because major media don’t promote the talent and who is playing good and winning so the casual fans don’t know how good some guys and the teams are. Lastly no defense is played. You see star players go in the lane and the guy defending him don’t even put his hands up and still get a foul no contact. They have to let them play a little defensive role not just lanes to the basket
And to go with this. The people who discuss ball only talk surface level, so the average fan doesn't even know what they are looking at even when they do watch. I'm not a football guy but it looks like the average football fan knows more about the sport and it's players and they all wear helmets. Sh*ts embarrassing
Jokic needs learn to play more like Bird. Bird could’ve easily avg a triple double every year, but his focus was doing what he can to win
But let espn, fox sports network, and all these podcasts tell it the analytics prove that Jokic is a great defender.
😂😂😂
What's next? Jokic's horse being drafted in the second round next year? 😂
Michael Jordan is a great example of how a triple-double style of basketball isn't reliable for winning. His 1988 season demonstrated that he could play this style, but it came at a cost. Coming from the previous season, Jordan sacrificed help defense activity, his turnover rate increased, his Defensive Win Shares (DWS) and Defensive Box Plus/Minus (DBPM) decreased, and ultimately, the team's win rate dropped.
However, in the 1989 season, when Phil Jackson took over, Jordan adjusted his approach. He toned down his offensive control, which led to an improvement in his defensive statistics and an increase in the team's win rate. Although Jordan still exhibited some triple-double tendencies in 1989, he seemed to fully commit to a role-based team play by the 1990 season. His help defense activity became more apparent, and both his DWS, DBPM, and the team's win rate continued to rise.
Jordan had already developed critical off-ball skills since his rookie season in 1984, making him effective in a motion-rich system. He possessed an active off-ball game with skills like flares, pops, curls, juke-and-fade, and spin-away. He was a lethal catch-and-shoot mid-range threat and a catch-and-lay close/inside range threat. It took Phil Jackson to fully unlock Jordan's off-ball abilities to benefit both the triangle offense and Jordan himself. Jordan's rapid adjustment to this system within just two years highlights his coachability and versatility.
In contrast, LeBron James' game appears less adaptable. Over the span of 20 years, his off-ball game has remained lacking. While he possesses some off-ball skills, he rarely uses them effectively in games. His lateral movement limits the reliability of these skills. Despite his perceived athleticism, LeBron's slow lateral movement makes him susceptible to being beaten by opponents, although he can recover quickly in open space, which explains his numerous chasedown blocks. His off-ball game mainly consists of running from the perimeter and cutting in for easy layups, a skill he excels at because it requires running space. Consequently, he often camps near the top of the key because he needs the running space, which gives him more cherry-picking opportunities. This lack of off-ball movement hampers LeBron's ability to properly distribute his gravity like Jordan does.
LeBron's lack of off-ball skills explains why it's hard to think of him as ever having a catch-and-shoot game. LeBron's scoring tends to help shorten a deficit or tie the game but doesn't do much to add to a leading score. He often delays important shots simply because he doesn't have the skill to accommodate them. He shoots slightly below 40% outside of 3 feet (not including 3-point range) and just below 38% in the midrange, despite having a career FG% over 50%. He is an "efficient" scorer, but actually an unreliable one. In contrast, Jordan actively distributes his gravity and doesn't delay shot opportunities when his team needs to tie, take the lead, secure a lead, or win the game. Even if Jordan misses more shots than LeBron while scoring the same points, his team's offensive efficiency remains higher and intact because of how he distributes his gravity, keeping the offense flowing.
LeBron does have great passing skills, but he often makes errant passes and fumbles the ball for no reason, leading to turnovers that cost his team momentum, leads, and games.
LeBron's scoring style, along with controlling facilitation and his rebounding style, is largely a factor of the team's game plan rather than his actual rebounding skills. Specifically on defensive rebounds, LeBron often cherry-picks. Instead of closing out his man on the perimeter and contesting shots, he positions himself near the paint to increase his chances of getting a defensive rebound. This approach makes his defensive play appear more like an illusion aimed at grabbing rebounds rather than genuinely defending. His unhelpful scoring playstyle, which allows him to score big and preserve his FG% but often delays crucial shots not only in clutch situations but in typical play, along with controlling facilitation and fraudulent rebounding tactics, impacts the team's effectiveness. This style of play, often referred to as "Bron ball," frequently contributes to his team losing a lead and losing games.
LeBron's lack of movement and cherry-picking the shots he wants to take, rather than what the team needs, is a big clue as to why he has managed to maintain numbers close to his career averages even over 20 seasons. Meanwhile, Jordan, who had knee and leg issues by his mid-30s, would still have more mileage in his legs in his first 10 seasons than LeBron in his first 15 seasons, despite LeBron playing more games and minutes.
Despite LeBron's impressive statistics on paper, his inability to distribute his gravity and generate movement negatively affects his team's scoring efficiency. His unhelpful scoring playstyle, which allows him to score big and preserves his FG% but often delays crucial shots not even in clutch situations but in typical play, along with controlling facilitation and fraudulent rebounding tactics, impacts the team's effectiveness. This style of play, often referred to as "Bron ball," frequently contributes to his team losing a lead and losing games. Watching him play reveals these shortcomings, which are not visible on the stat sheet. This also explains why LeBron has often needed a lot of all-star and superstar players just to keep the team afloat and have winning chances despite his seemingly impressive numbers on paper.
Very good points
@@Mandownsports Sure thing, but I stil disagree with your take on Nikola Jokic. How I observe how he plays, he doesn't even look like he plays "triple double basketball". He doesn't really stagnate his movement and camp in one spot like LeBron, Harden, or Luka, he does move around quite a bit, especially when setting up pick-and-roll plays, or give-and-gos, he also do off-ball curls for catch-and-shoot middys and catch-and-lays, even sometimes catch-and-shoot 3s, or for better post-up positions, he does this quite a lot actually. Problem is he's quite slow in shooting it after catching, which is why he often do phonebooth moves to create some space first before shooting or laying it up. It's not on the same level of activity as MJ, Steph, Kobe, or Reggie, but Jokic does have movement inducing skills to help maintain or increase team scoring efficiency. His facilitation doesn't even look like he's forcing to look for assists. He has, I don't know how to say it, "inhuman" reaction time in recognizing scoring opportunities for other players the moment they have position, he will find it almost immediately, if it's available and if it's needed. He doesn't just force it into traffic or fumble the ball trying to force a play, and commit a turnover. For how many assists he accumulates, he actually has a very low turnover rate, simply because he actually facilitate only when its reasonably accessible and not when he wants to. The principles and results of his facilitation is more comparable to Steve Nash's and Jason Kidd's, instead of someone like LeBron, Westbrook, Harden.
His rebounding is also more based on actual rebounding skills, size, and playing position. He does box out alot, he does flash inside to grab offensive boards and second-change points, and his offensive and defensive rebounding numbers has a well-balanced distribution as he does flash and crash inside, instead of relying on a gameplan to determine who gets a defensive rebound and stat-padding rebounding numbers solely through defensive rebounds, as defensive rebounds are very easy to plan for unlike offensive rebounds. He also doesn't cherry-pick defensive rebounds, unlike some people who look like they're guarding a spot but is really focused on getting in position for a defensive rebound instead of actually playing defense, which is why even if their man is in front of them and about to shoot, they will fail to close out because in their mind is _"if someone shoots, I'll be in position to get this defensive rebound, then I'll have the ball to start the offense, then I will get an assist"_. And you most certainly cannot cherry-pick offensive rebounds, which he gets a 3rd of his rebounds.
Defensively, he still puts effort. He will still flash to play defense on the other side even if he or someone one the team turns the ball over, he doesn't let his team play 4v5, he will actually try to run to the other side even if his team still ends up playing 4v5 because of his footspeed. He will still try to close-out, swing his arms around his head if he thinks a pass is coming behind him and onto his man to try and intercept a pass, he will flail his arms frequently towards a driving player to try and swipe the ball away, instead of just looking at them doing nothing. He's slow but he still tries. What I do notice about him is he's more calibrated to swiping/stealing the ball than contest/block a shot, which I think is his most glaring deficiency. His interior D, and especially his help D is deficient because of his steal/block tendency balance, which I would guess is a result of his lack of athleticism. But if he has to block a shot to save a game or win a game, he will try. And that's the important thing, he may or may not do well on D, but if you watch him, he actually put effort on D, he doesn't rest on defense as you might think he does like the "others".
Jokic's playstyle doesn't quite fit your "Hero Ball" criteria, it also certainly doesn't quite fit your "Team Ball" criteria. I say it's somewhere in between. And that I think is the flaw in your categorization. It's actually based on a logical fallacy called a _false dichotomy_. Remember you are dealing with human beings here, they have different tendencies, physical attributes, mental attributes, demeanors, skillset, etc. You can't really sort them in just two categories. More realistically it should be a gradient. I think you're on the right track with your arguments using this "Hero Ball / Team Ball" grouping, but I suggest for a more scientific approach, you change your Hero Ball-Team Ball grouping, into a multi-point scale. It could be 0 to 10, or 0 to 100. Like for example Hero Ball is 0, and then Team Ball is the Max limit, let's say 10. For example, on a scale of Hero Ball to Team Ball, where does Jokic lie on that scale? For example in, my opinion, probably leaning towards Team Ball at a...7 probably? LeBron is definitely near 0 to 3, Westbrook probably a 4, Magic is probably a 6???, MJ is somewhere between 9 to 10, Kobe probably an 8 because he wasn't really as active as MJ with the off-ball game, and overall activity on D, Bird probably an 8 or 9??? Anyway, yeah, change your categorization into a gradient is what I suggest. You're on the right track here, you just have to expand the idea.
@@sportschadPerfectly said! Well done!
You & Mel are both correct
I’m surprised that with how you see the game & what you wrote & how Mel described his position that you didn’t completely agree with him.
With that being said I agree with both your point & with Mel’s point.
Mel is correct on this one & maybe you just don’t really understand what he’s trying to articulate
Loved the convo with the second caller. Stern definitely pushed Stars, but when those stars retired, it left a vacuum. Silver needs to promote the top teams whereever they are, small or large market. The Stars will rise to the top naturally. When a fan watches a game for the team, they will continue to watch after the star player retires. The fan who only watches for the star, checks out after that star's retirement.
You done kicked the hornets nest with this one LOL we about to find out that they just don't like the OTHER guy calling himself King 👀
@@Nxsunset7 I see 👀
All facts....they bout to send the calvary for Mel.
@@crharper25 Straight from the mountains LOL
Good show. On the second caller - I LOVED those low scoring battles with the Pistons, Hest, Knicks, and Pacers... un the same way that u used to love watching Tony Dungy's Buccaneer team - especially when they limited Kurt Warner's Rams to only 11 points in the NFC title game
I know that I will get some or many that will disagree but that is Just how it is/ When I first seen Jokic playing back in 2021: It reminded me of Magic Johnson with those no look dime passes and other kind of passes that I have never seen in a Center before and it was unique and wonderful to see and the thing about him it was (Effortlessness) and it was not rehearsed, or even something he was being force to do, or even something he was trying to make happened. And I will say it again he did it in every game (effortlessness) to where I did not want to miss the Nuggets when they play with his light touch passes, long passes down the court, blind passes & between his opponent's legs passes and I can continue on and on to name the many types & kinds of passes he did without even thinking, it was spontaneous & instinctive with all that I said, I know that he Just so happened to be a facilitator as a Big Man and Just so happen to be an efficient scorer and every time he touch the ball and then pass it to his teammates 9 times out of 10 they would not miss.
And his teammates begin to get interviews talking about Nikola and Michael P. Jr. was told when he 1st came to the team that if Jokic wanted to he can score even more. And he shared that Jokic do not care about #'s and all of that, he care about the team and making sure that each player on the team get the best possible look to be open for easy shots and if they double team him that Nikola is selfless to where we know that we will get the ball, and he said they just had to be ready & expect it. And that is what brought them to win their 1st championship by being the Facilitator but that got loss somewhere and everything changed.
The Older Isaiah Thomas was at one of the Final games and said that Jokic had the answer to the test: And this is the way he describes Jokic/ if you do this, he's going to do that, if you double team him, he will pass it, and if you do that, he will do this.
These guys were all the best players on their college teams. Most of them can play that’s why they are in the NBA. When the ball is shared and touches a lot of hands it creates energy
Exactly 💯
@@deddiev1718 And that's how the Nuggets play.
Honestly this just tells you a lot about today's NBA because if jokic was playing back in the day in the '90s no way in hell he would be dribbling the ball up to court as a point guard his handles are not that good. They would Jack him up all the time. They would make him give the ball up. That's how soft this era is!
Bingo. And I like Joker, but yeah, smaller players would strip the ball from him all the time if he tried bringing the ball up back then. Could you imagine him trying to bring the ball up against the likes of MJ, Pippen or Sidney Moncrief?
I like the Joker too but it's just facts!!
Jack Jokic up? Have you watch him play? You do realize he is like 6'11 290, incredibly strong, and thrives on contact? And whether he brings the ball up the court or not is completely irrelevant lol.
They had Brown and KCP and another big when they won the championship. Why let those guys go. Run It back
They were fooled by the media hype job of Jokic and really believed it was all him.
@@MandownsportsI think there’s a conspiracy
They don’t want Nuggets to continue to win. They want to continue to push the fraud from Akron smh
When Bulls won their 1st ring they kept the team together, when Kobe & Shaq won their 1st ring they kept the team together, when even Superteam Heat won their 1st ring they kept the team together.
For some reason Nuggets get rid of their core smh
GSW have opportunity to get bigs & get real help last couple of years but don’t smh
Timberwolves get rid of Towns & disrupt their chemistry
It just makes the West easier smh
This isn't the 90s. Everyone can score and make plays. So what you have a super star, a super star can't beat good teams alone, ask Jordan 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen with ZERO final appearances. He needed Rodman, and Pippen.
A superstar definitely cant beat good teams playing hero Ball
this supserstar players needing more "help" thing kills me. If you need help, doesn't that scream that you aren't good enough on your own? Lebron has needed help his whole career, how does the goat need supserstar help every year to even think about succeeding? Jokic looks like he's going to need help, but needing that help speaks volumes about your superstar status. People like MJ and Barkley were REAL superstars who carried teams on their backs, who do we see really doing that today? There really aren't many true superstars, even in this easier era.
@@Xenotypic you preaching 👏
@@Xenotypic It's not about needing more help as much as trimming the fat. Murray isn't what he was, and the bench has literally 2 decent players. They need to shake up the bench, maybe get some young guys in there and build them up, but moving Murray out of the starting rotation would be a huge benefit to the team.
You are aware Barkley never won anything and played with some great players? And the MJs Bulls were loaded with talent correct?
@jdsilvestri lolololol, nowhere near the level of help Lebron needed to succeed. Their first 3 peat they had MJ and Pip... Yeah...
2nd 3-peat they had MJ, Pip, Rodman (rebounder and decent defender), Kukoc (draft pick)... Yeah.
@@jdsilvestri not even close to the same. it wasn't looked at as a super team, and as the other commenter said, whatt about the first 3 peat? pippen was a draft pick who was built up to what he eventually was through building up the team and it's players. they build a dynasty rather than trading to make a superteam for a cheap, instead possible win. it's pathetic, you're not a competitor on the same kind of level as the greats if you want to team up with the best competition. you're really not even competing at that point. modern superteams make for a hollow victory without the rags to riches story that people love sports so much for.
*Mel steph did come back and win again without KD*
Is he not next level?
What if he wins this year without KD or Klay?
No cuz if KD never joined the Warriors when he did that group would've broke up earlier and that 2nd, 3rd or 4th ring would've never happened 🤷
@@MandownsportsBoth of you guys are correct here
Curry does have 2 legit rings BUT there’s a high possibility that GSW does brake up that team if they didn’t win in 17 & 18.
Gil never won nothing
I’ve watched several nuggets games this year, wins and losses. Looks like someone isn’t watching 👀
I’ve watched several Nuggets games this year as well…
If I’m not mistaken, it’s the same core of players Jokic won the chip with.
Jokic is nice, but Jokic also averages over 100 touches per game, the only player in the league to average that many touches per game …
Jokic needs to help himself by playing better defense, the Pelicans, the lowly Pelicans were exposing his weakness just last night…
Granted he’s a beast on offense, primarily because there aren’t any, or many quality bigs to match up with him…
I actually like Jokic, but his style of play tends to “stat” padding ~ because he always has the ball on offense.
The Nuggets made their comeback last night, mainly when Jokic was on the bench ~ and the Pelicans weren’t getting easy dunks in the high screen and role.
No shade to Jokic, but it is what it is.
Porter Jr, Gordon, Murray were all starters on that championship team were they not? Or am I wrong?
🎯
@@mobrown1198 Jokic had the best +/- of all Nuggets starters last night at +6 so???
@@mobrown1198 I think a lot of Mel's points are right, but since he's lumping Jokic in with Lebron and Luka... His reasoning for those issues is very wrong. Jokic isn't standing there, dribbling the ball forever. He gets it out of his hands fast... It just keeps coming back. idk if the guys are told to just keep the ball moving or to give it back to Jokic when they don't see a play, but something has to change. He has the most touches but the least time per touch with the ball of any superstar.
@@mobrown1198 He has the most touches per game but the lowest time per touch. The Nuggets pass a lot, but the last two seasons they pass it back to Jokic WAY too often.
I think it's more they need to get rid of Jamal and actually get a game plan when Jokic's on the bench. They just leave empty space on the floor where he would've been. Somebody needs to step up and either fill that space, or the coaching staff needs to get their heads out of their asses and tell the players to stop panic passing to Jokic.
It's like the team gave up on their confidence and just keeps sneding the ball to him, or Murray just dribbles forever and throws up bad shots.
Yes! ...and, uh, MDS, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Jamal Murry is a more talented Robert Pack, but he's just as inconsistent. You really think Jokic decides he runs the point, or is that coaching? Y'all crack me up. They do have a game plan, but they have no depth because they bet the farm on Murray's sorry ass. And same, if you were accusing Westbrook, only dude on his team, with his triple doubles stat padding. Jokic runs the point because he's the best ball-hander they have...silly.
@@canttakeanymoreso Russ a stat padder but Jokic ain’t ? Lmao
Replace Murray with Kyrie Irving; the Nuggets would be title favorites. Murray is not that good.
@ omg bet your life you wasn’t saying this two years ago when Kyrie got traded !
@ Yall so flip flopping shit is crazy !!! Idk how good LeBron James is cuz he’s so hyped but without Murray you ain’t beating the lakers , you can’t beating the wolves in your fkn title run . So idk what not that good means but buddy been goin toe toe with superstars while Jokic just looks for mis matches the whole fkn game ! Lmao stop it
The Title is hilarious 🤣🤣 y’all are so funny.
Lol
Fun fact, I never add sugar to my coffee.
Although I disagree with some of Mel's takes here, the fact to the matter remains, trading MPJ for Lavine is asinine. I don't know what is going on with the NBA but looking for trades and drama ain't gonna help the ratings and what is more important ain't gonna help building better teams. A solid squad is galvanized through the grind, practicing and training.
@@Fixundfertig1 I agree
I feel like none of the core guys who built Denver into a championship team should not be traded. It would be an insult for Denver to Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr., or Aaron Gordon. I feel Denver can win just by developing their talent they have already but I feel they need a back up center who can defend and rebound when Jokic isn't on the court.
@psychedelicvault6951 unless they ask for more money than they worth or they ask out for some reason. Does anybody know why KCP and the others went out? It's kinda weird to me.
@@Fixundfertig1 I think KCP did want more money on his contract. I think Denver would be better if he stayed but who knows because he's been struggling with the Orlando Magic (8 pts, 40% shooting from the field, 30% from 3). Christian Braun was great substitute for KCP because he's been playing very well for and he's younger and more athletic than him.
@@psychedelicvault6951 Murray is absolutely not worth his contract.
This is not the same Nuggets team. Some of the biggest plays made in their Championship run came from Brown's effort plays, defense, & shot making, as well as Pope's defense & shot making. Murray hasn't reached anywhere NEAR the same level of play. Jokic isn't a great on ball defender, but how many deflections & steals does he get? Replace Murray with a 17-20ppg player who is CONSISTENTLY on the court & the team would significantly improve.
Brown & Pope were 2 of their best perimeter defenders.
Nick Young is the only reasonable one on this topic lmao. Calls out Jokic for stat padding and is realistic about Lavine+Murray on the same team.
Right and they drowned his voice out
@@Mandownsports They need to take him back stage and get him on the program.
They made the wrong argument for this. Joker cannot get the Lebrun James need more help argument
Nikola did nothing wrong to you, the basketball community or the sport. Lately , you , ticket , and 2raw have made it your business to attack him cause you don't want him to get the MVP award again this year. Is it because he is white, european , both or sometrhing else? Cause you seem to be quite persistent ...
@@volfi123 it's funny I make the same criticisms about Lebron, Harden and Westbrook and nobody has a problem. But if I critique a non-black player it's a racial issue. Get off my channel if you can't handle a honest basketball critique against a white player but you're ok with critique against black players
@@Mandownsports Lebron and Harden have harmed the sport. What are you talking about? You know that! You put Jokic on the same level as Lebron?!?!?! Stop it... It would be honest if all of you didn't have the same critique all of a sudden . It is becoming very obvious what a group of you is trying to do lately so stop it... If you like old school basketball then you should promote players with Jokic's mentality and character , not trashtalk them... Thank god yannis is not white or you attack him too...
@@Mandownsports Don't put Lebron and Harden on the same level as Jokic...You know better than that. Jokic's character is nothing like the players you mentioned.
@volfi123 I'm discussing basketball, not character
@@Mandownsports whos close to Joker right now, who can do what he can? ''Jordan or X player should have won more MVP's'' - Voter fatigue is a really bad thing and it needs to go.
Some of these dudes cool with getting 1 ring, and they live off that. No more hunger
Ok Mel I usually agree with you on most things, but not everything here. I do agree with everything you said regarding Joker. But you said when porter and Murray was out they struggled and barely made the playoffs. If you take 2 starters away from any team what do you expect to happen? So that was kinda of a silly take. And Martin wasn’t accurate in regard to porter being able to get his own shot, he’s totally capable of doing that. But ,Lavine is a much better offensive player than he is by far, lavine has been the number 1 offensive threat for his team. No matter what team porter goes too he’s not offensively gifted enough to be a number 1 option. But yes your right the trade wouldn’t make any sense because they still want everyone to play through joker
Right now the playmaker splits for Denver is around 70% Jokic, 20% Murray and 10% Westbrook. MPJ is just there to spread the floor, when Lavine replace MPJ which player is gonna sacrifice their playmaker opportunities to allow Lavine to produce more than MPJ? If it's not Jokic than you're gonna have the sane problem then that u have now and if it is Jokic then he could've done it all along for MPJ. You get my point?
Zach LaVine is a liability on defense, too. I'm in the Chicago area, went to a Bulls game, and watched Jimmy cook Zach so bad that Zach got benched.
Don't tell em nothing. Let them use the Lebron James playbook
I can’t lie I like jokers style of play more than Luka’s style I think Kyrie would look even better playing with joker over Luka now the defensive end is the bigger issue for me with the joker
@@efeezy7770 Exactly. He literally plays nothing like Luka or Lebron.
That's because he is a post player but it's the sane concept. He is the primary scorer and the primary distributor and plays subpar defense
@@MandownsportsI know what ur trying to say as far as offense he gets into the stat padding as well but because he’s a post player that limits how much he can have the ball because he can’t bring the rock up court every play and initiate the offense like Luka and Lebron and Harden do maybe that’s why it doesn’t look as bad to me as the defense which for me is his biggest issue and if he took a step back from some of his offensive production to play better defense that would help the Nuggets and his legacy as a player much more for me
@efeezy7770 exactly 💯. So why isn't he doing that?
@@Mandownsports Because the team cannot stop leaning on him... You'd think they'd have worked on playing without Jokic on the court while he was out with the birth of his kid, but nope... They just played mediocre basketball and barely beat a terrible team. I wish someone would ask the coaching staff the real questions on this topic... Why are you forcing Jokic to do everything when he should be scoring, rebounding, and protecting the paint?
Zach Levine would be a downgrade. His stats are empty.
Nah you're off on this one bro. Regardless of how big or slow Jokic may be. Denver's offensive is far more efficient when Jokic is on the floor vs when he's not on the floor. If I don't think he's stat padding, Denver is just a far more effective offensive unit when he's running Point from the post. I think your take is a reaction to the MEDIA perception around Jokic's teammates.
I don't care about efficiency, I care about rings. Do you want Jokic to win rings or do you want him to explode on the stat sheet? 🤔
Honestly not all assists are created equal. There are amazing assists that lead to an easy basket. Then there is just swinging the ball to to the open shooter. That’s actually very simple if you did not do anything like a drive and dish
Christian Braun plays defense. He's super underrated.
I think Jokic is being unfairly labeled here. 1st off I don't think Jokic is blatantly stat padding, I just think he has a coach much like how doug collins was with mj who says just give the ball to him and everybody get out of the way. Its easy to just put the ball in one guys hand and let him run the floor, you don't really have to coach at that point. 2nd point the needing more help argument for jokic compared to lebron is more authentic. You could say its misguided and wrong and i would agree but there's a difference between suggesting 1 guy maybe needs some help as opposed to this year end year out media campaign to demand players on your behalf and not just any player but the best players no matter the circumstance. Nobody is demanding the best players in the league go play with jokic like they do with lebron
He is not blatantly stat padding but he is playing a play style that's more conducive to accumulating stats than it is for winning. Why would any great player choose that route? You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you wanna win without stacking your teams you have to sacrifice alot of what you can do so your team as a while can do more. Tim Duncan sacrificed his numbers so Parker and Ginobli could star in their roles.
@@Mandownsports Tim Duncan was never an assist guy even before parker and ginobli. jokic has played this way his entire career, even when they won. mike malone just like phil jackson did with jordan has to take the ball out of jokic's hand
@granthill24 Tim Duncan didn't wanna be an assist guy because that's the point guards job. Everyone has to do their job for the team to operate at the highest level which is why Duncan got 5 rings. Jokic gotta decide if he wants the stats or the rings
@@Mandownsports i agree with that
@@Mandownsports they're winning when he's on the floor. they only lose when he's off the floor. that's on his teammates...
MEL; the CALL IN GUEST talking about the LEAGUE MERGING with OVERSEAS GLOBAL answered THE QUESTION we chatted about awhile back...
INTENTIONALLY WATERING DOWN the NBA..
The NBA becoming more a global game is a good thing in my opinion because overseas players often work harder than American players because they aren't spoiled by the AAU and some of the overseas players have grown up in worst poverty than players in America.
@psychedelicvault6951
That's "this" GENERATION; that's
ALREADY been HIJACKED & SABOTAGED since GROWN MEN MENTALITY has been REPLACED with IMATURE SOFT PRIVILEGE MENTALITY..
Trade Butler to Denver for Murray & some picks. Butler isn't a great scorer, but he could fill the perimete defender gap & provide 15-20 ppg. Put Russ, Butler, & Jokie together, and they're some of the hardest playing guys in the league.
Lawd have mercy
@Mandownsports lol 😆
Listen, I watch your show, but that was a ridiculous take of what you just said about joker. Joker didn’t have the help that LeBron had Kobe had. To say otherwise you’re just lying.
Jokic has all the help he needs. The team just playing bad basketball
Jokic has had GREAT help, what are you talking about. I will say what Man Down cannot say. This is about race. You dudes want to continually praise these overrated dudes of your ethnic background. He is stat-padding in an era where there is ..literally..NO DEFENSIVE resistance. If this dude played in the Hakeem, David Robinson, Ewing, Mourning..era..He would get SMASHED. Jokic has had a great team for years. His LUCK has ran out.
@@bigbromcgee7118 I mean... Jokic didn't have superstar players, but he had solid players and an excellent bench.
I live in Denver the coach was the dog that put the fire in them he made them go hard. The year Denver won it was the perfect time they team chemistry was at all time high and the west was weak. Now it’s like LeBron with the refs making sure they stay in the game and on the line . Joker throw bows no call
@@rulerhbf these are facts
Ignorant comment on your part to say the West was Weak when Jokic had to play against Lebron, AD, KD, Devin Booker, Antman, Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert, Jimmy Butler, and Bam Adebayo. 2 all star players on each team Joker played against. A lot of you picked Denver to lose against the Suns and the Lakers but when Jokic destroyed both teams you gave Jamal Murray all the credit and said he carried the team when Jokic led the playoffs in points, rebounds, assists and player efficiency rating. Jamal Murray was great in 2023 but Jokic was easily the main reason Denver won. That's like saying Khris Middleton carried the Bucks when they won because he's a much better shooter than Giannis, when it's clear Giannis is a way better player.
I disagree about Curry being a one ring superstar he won as the best player before and after K.D
@@jose.g2753 so you think if KD never joined the Warriors, Steph would've still won in 2021? Interesting. But nah, I stand by my statement, he is a 1 ring superstar. Kobe and Duncan wqs the last of a dying breed.
28:43. I love this chart. A LeDiddy fanatic would probably say you hating. 🤣
@@derrrick7759 lol of course
What you mean more help? Jokic hasn't had any help to begin with in his 10 year career. While LeBron has constantly been playing on superteams. Give Jokic his first all-star teammate of his career, and see Jokic instantly 3-peat.
@@penkima4923 sounds like Lebron to me
@@Mandownsports How? Jokic is the opposite of LeBron. Jokic is demanded to win with zero team, when LeBron has always demanded to have more help while he's played with MVP-level teammates for 15 years.
@@penkima4923 everything Jokic needs to win is already on the roster, they just gotta play better basketball
@@Mandownsports On the roster? So, Murray and MPJ should somehow be able to cheer Jokic to win alone? Murray and MPJ have missed entire seasons before age 25. MPJ is as injury prone as Joel Embiid, but Embiid is an MVP and MPJ plays far below all-star level basketball. Everything Jokic needs literally isn't on the roster.
10 years is too long to keep repeating that Jokic should win with G league players. You're a hater.
@penkima4923 his co-stars aren't allstars cuz he is stat padding. How can his co-stars help him if he wants to do everything. Post ups=Jokic, Facilitate=Jokic, Primary Scorer=Jokic, Run the point=Jokic, Fast Break=Jokic. What's left for MPJ to do at an allstar level? Catch and shoot 3s. That's it
If he’s so slow and overweight then he can be stopped very easily. Jokic passes out of post like no other giant before him, out smarts every other “non-slow/non-fat” center in the league and out rebounds every other “non-slow/non-fat” center in the league. Easy solution, slow him down (it it’s possible with how slow he already is). Should be easy to stop from scoring/passing and rebounding, never mind stat padding, the normal stats should be very easy to stop. I’m the biggest Jordan fan you will ever find, but let’s not create video’s because we think Jokic winning all these MVP’s will make people think he’s a 🐐 and is a threat to MJ.
I watched the game last night against the Pelicans, Jokic is a LIABILITY on defense
@ most definitely, always has been. Doesn’t equate to stat padding.
Tell me you don’t watch Denver without saying so.
Brother, go watch track and field, this game is not for you.
Say what you want but nobody hears Jokic crying for help...unlike Bron
@@josephsarh4193 the media and Jokic's fanbase are crying for him.
@Mandownsports you must belong to the Fake#23 membership right?
Yes they are becoming just as bad as Lebroniacs
@deddiev1718 That's not possible!!Bro...plus the league needs a new face and to get off Bron...hopefully it helps make the NBA great again.
Hand-eye coordination is 'quickness' and athleticism. If Jokic is so slow, why is he unstoppable? ...and he doesn't have to commit a foul every time he goes to the hole like Shaq did...so I don't understand all that 'slow' nonsense. He's not fouling people because he doesn't feel like playing defense, does he? That's slow.
He can be stopped for a couple of reasons. 1) The rules. 2) There are only 2 other real Centers in the league that are worth a damn. He’s plenty stoppable in the 90s, 2000s and the 2010 until 2016.
He got exposed by dwight who was way past his prime
I mean... He's objectively slow... What are you talking about? Even Jokic says, "I'm not fast, and I cannot jump high."
After the Jordan's Bulls, the Spurs were always my favorite team. They played great basketball. I even liked them above my Miami Heat ( because LeBron was there)
Zack Lavine plays a loosing style of basketball the if they made that trade for Zack Lavine they will regret it
WRONG!!! JUST WROOOOOOOOOOOOONG!!!!!!
It's right, you just don't like hearing any criticism for Jokic
@Mandownsports Nah, it's absolutely wrong! Your understanding is completely off, and I know why. Then lie about Bosh and Love 😂😂😂
@tankwhite.7036 when Jokic gets 5 rings like Duncan then I'll believe what you're saying but for right now, nba history and Jokic current situation is all the proof we need. Jokic chose stats over rings and now he want more help like Lebron so his team can compete
@@Mandownsports If he get players like Duncan had and doesn't do it I'll believe what you said!
NBA today is fulls of stats padding players ,that’s why they don’t care about winning ,superstars todays are serials losers 👎
Yikes 😲
You obviously do not understand game, Joker is 3 way treat, and it's logical to go offence thru him
U definitely didn't understand my video
I believe in Murray but he needs to play better.
give pat riley and jerry krause credit for building the team
Give Dan Gilbert credit for getting Lebum, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love on his team. Give Pat Riley and D Wade credit for showing Lebum how to win when they had championships when Lebum didn't. Give the Lakers front office credit for signing Anthony Davis when Lebum missed the playoffs. 😂😂😂
@@psychedelicvault6951 you are right I hope dan gilbert make the hall of fame like pat riley and jerry krause
I totally agree 💯 with Mel on this! 💯!
With that being said I at least can respect Jokic because he was at least able to win the right way, the organic way with the players he had & he didn’t short cut the winning process by running away and forming Superteams etc.
Now to keep it 💯 Nuggets did face weak competition during that Finals run in which they won.
I already have Jokic ranked higher then Lebron in my all time great list for that reason and a few others.
Like I said, Mel is completely correct on this.
Slow as molasses lol I'm fucken weak man 😂
@@blazed89 lol 😆
@Mandownsports that was a good one brotha lol
@44:28 - 45:38
FACTS. Well said.
Great analogy
LeBron James has had an all-star teammate for over 20 times. Jokic has had 0 all-star teammates in his career. Yes. Genius analogy.
Let Mel get on the pot for this one. I'm not gonna cook you pero, isasako kita! ;)
Lol
Apples and Oranges... the verdict was out on MPJ a few seasons ago 😂 y'all running out of topics if you really believe Joker is getting the LeBron treatment. So Joker is a crybaby that gets his way at the detriment of the game? He's flopping, arguing, and complaining with no worries of consequence? Y'all gotta stop with this nonsense. Name one teammate the Joker threw under the bus.
@@garyyoung2919 the answers to all of your questions are in my video. I can't waste time addressing sumtn I never said
@Mandownsports so the title/caption isn't the title/caption? 🤔🤨😂
not 1,017 lbs 😂
Jokic fans are so weird and delusional…forget his stats let’s address him not playing noooo defense. Why doesn’t anyone talk about that? 🤔 He plays on one side of the court and gets praised ridiculously because the stats he puts up. It’s laughable…the standard is way too low for all these guys. If you think the way Jokic and the Nuggets play is amazing please get your brain checked. Him playing pg is overrated, it just looks good for him and it makes his teammates seem incompetent. No one thinks critically or with logic smh
You preaching
@@MandownsportsPreaching false info. 😅
Replace Murray with Kyrie Irving.
Problem solved.
@@therealdonaldtrump1646 wow
That's an insult to Jamal Murray to trade for Kyrie Irving even though Kyrie is better than him at basketball. Jamal helped build the Denver Nuggets. Just like it was an insult for Golden State to trade Klay and Golden State is still a mediocre team right now anyway.
@@psychedelicvault6951 nope Kyrie is WAY better.
Kyrie is a better defender...
Offensively they are not even in the same league.
@@psychedelicvault6951 Jamal is terrible. Hey, look! No Jamal taking awful shots, and they dominated the Suns.
@@TacoMasterMTG Quit hatin on Jamal Murray 😅😅😅
This video is for SKAP
Bro I agree with basically everything you say on this show. Daily listener. But are we really comparing Jamal Murray and Tony Parker lol ? I think you gotta re watch 2000s play off spurs.
I'm saying Murray can run the point in an offense like Parker did
I agree. And yes. Joker gotta get it done. No excuses and blame gamin like Bron his whole career
It’s because Mr in the 3rd person Justin Tirmony is acting like joker is the greatest player ever and the zoomer worship is reaching Lebron levels
@@deddiev1718 facts
@mel, what up bro totally agree with you bro 💯... Man I hear a lot of mainstream media praise Jokic and act like they never seen anything like him.. Minnesota K.Love to me was that dude he was on Jokic level what u think
That's a fact!
I like your show and normally respect your POV but you obviously have something against Jokic. Perkins is an idiot at the best of times. Unlike Lebron Jokic has little help. Look at his +- with him on the floor vs him off. As a Canadian I love Murray, but he has been very inconsistent since he got hurt. Jokic 's game has all 3 elements which he does well: scoring, rebounding and passing. One skill sets up the other. He just simply is a good rebounder with his size and talent. Without his scoring, how good would his passing be and without his passing how good of scorer would he be. He is an awkward scorer, but he does it well and sometimes he is the only one who can. His passing ability is second to none and unlike Lebron Jokic can pass inside as well. Just because we have not seen a big man do what he is doing dose not make him a stat padder. BTW Chamberlain had this ability as well. One more thing about Perkins as well as a couple other high profile commentators, is he is a racist or at least a xenophobe. The international players may be the ssviours of the NBA, not the destroyers.
@@davidblair140 yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, every star in the league can be critiqued except the white players and if you critique them you have sumtn against them or you are racist. We get it bro. Thanks for the comment but I'm gonna keep critiquing every player based on what I can observed and from my view point everything I said in the video is true
They have teamed up to slander Jokic. 2raw, tickettv, brandonlovessports ( who has said clearly in the past that he doesn't want european players in the nba, i reported his video and had to take it down ). What he says makes no sense and he knows it perfectly well.
@@Mandownsports Sure , sure , we got the right to critique you as well though
@@volfi123 not my problem
@@Mandownsports it's not a problem at all , it's a service
He's the new NBA ratings killer - that's all.
💯💯
This is your worst take I’ve heard. You said it yourself…if they’re doing unnecessary stuff. He doesn’t. There’s been so many times where he’ll be close the a triple double and sit out the rest of the game. Lebron don’t do that. Try watching a game or two. He could give a shit less about his stats. When the f is GA a source of knowledge? Just cuz he’s saying something you like, wow
Everything I said is true
@@Mandownsports We can't take nothing you say serious you're biased🤦♂️
@jayp1767 I hear you
@@jayp1767 I disagree. I think Mel's points apply to the Nuggets, but I don't think Jokic is at fault. I think the team is either just relying on him too much, or the coaches are telling them to get him the ball and let him run the court. He's not sitting there, bringing the ball up the court, taking 420 dribbles and kicking it out with 2 seconds on the shot clock. They've been developing MPJ to be more than a catch and shoot guy... Jamal is more of the guy who dribbles too much and holds the ball too long than Jokic.
However, Mel's right that they try to use him for everything, and that's not winning basketball.
Awe. I suppose this was bound to happen. It has to hurt, huh? I mean all this talk about him winning ANOTHER mvp. Him being a white European guy, right? Luckily, Jokic, whom you are now comparing to Lebum, never ever had a modicum of the arrogance Lebum has. Luckily, he doesn't care about stat padding AT ALL, which is pretty obvious. He barely even cares about the nba. He can't wait to get back home, it's a job for him. Luckily, he isn't even on social media, BECAUSE he doesn't care. But I kinda do. So I'll unsub. I'm so sry I saw this vid. I'll probably keep pondering the fact that someone actually dared compare the quiet, kinda goofy, always kind European dude to Lebum. Ffs. Bye dude.
@@milica7245 ... That makes literally no sense, but you do you...
I stop watching after 5 minutes. U really don't know basketball l. U don't watch basketball. Jokic 95% of the time make the right play. Did you see Serbia almost beat USA by himself. Nuggets is running different sets. Again please watch the games. He get double team what u want him to do. Play like Kobe Bryant and shoot off double teams. He 100 times smarter than Kobe.
Everything I said is true
@@israelvilloda8410 What does any of what you just wrote have to do with the discussion? I love Jokic, but none of this applies to the conversation...
@ he says Jokic stats pad. Where does he stats pad. Do you know how many times Jokic had 9 assists in a game. Whole lot. He don’t play for stats. He plays to win.
@@Mandownsports furthest from the truth. It’s like America to North Pole. That how far wrong you are about Jokic. Guess he stat padded today. Wow they won by 27. He goes for 32,7,2 shooting 12 for 17 from the field. That without Murray. Like I say u don’t watch the game. You and your panel are casuals to the 100th tee.
2 things here: how do you know whether MPJ is authorised to get his shot or not? You're not in the locker room. Secondly, you give MPJ too much credit; he hasn't shown enough to merit a description of being like KD with his ball-handling. You make it sound like he's a premier shooter; he hasn't done it with consistency enough. Sorry, your analysis is flawed
🤣🤣🤣
I'm sad this channel has come to this. I think Jordan is far and away the Goat and do not like Lebron, but I love watching Jokic. I've never seen a player who has such a soft touch for scoring baskets, he just has the sauce, man.
I like Jokic game too
JOKIC bringing the ball up is about taking responsibility off of a NOT 100% MURRAY…simple as that!!! Not like any of the centers is gonna pressure him full court🤷🏾♂️it’s called strategy!!! DENVER HAS THEIR OWN STYLE OF PLAY and THATS THE WAY JOKIC LIKES TO PLAY…Nothing wrong with your team being built around your best player
Westbrook
@@LetChaKnow HE DOESN'T BRING THE BALL UP! He's inbounding the ball like 60% of the time.
Mpj is trash bro I’m sorry but your wrong on that one and Jamal Murray is trash as well now Jokic is that guy stop the disrespect Mel
@@chrisparker3708 spoken like a true lebron fan
@@Mandownsports I don’t like LeBron at all I respect him but that’s about it but Jokic is that guy and he way better than Embid and Jokic play 82 games and he is a playoff riser who won 3 mvp and won a chip. Embid ain’t did shit but get paid and win that Jokic mvp trophy fuck you talking about dude
@@Mandownsportswell the league is full of guards and forwards but no centers so Jokic has no real competition, Joker overrated I agree Mel
MPJ is NOT trash.
@CWATTS45 definitely over rated
Another stat Padder that needs help
Help!
@ LeHelp 😂
Jokic won with no all star with tougher competition he's nothing like Lebum and not once did you hear him throw his teammates under the bus. A lot of y'all hate on Giannis too when they won without a superteam. Denver has the worst offense in the league when Jokic is off the court when he's on the court they're one of the best offenses in the NBA.
@@Mandownsports Jokic is one of the good things about the NBA including Giannis. They won without superteams and quitting to run to another franchise unlike Lebum. I would think y'all would respect a player like Jokic but y'all don't hold Jamal Murray to a higher standard. Jamal can shoot 6 of 18 from the field and y'all pretend it didn't happen. That's almost like blaming Michael Jordan when Scottie shot 1 for 10 from the field against the Pistons in game 7. That's weak to put all the blame on the best player just because he's the best player, when the second best player isn't playing well.
@psychedelicvault6951 Jokic not having an allstar and his team having the worst offense without him is not a bragging point, that's an indictment of his leadership. That's sad good players like Murray, MPJ and Gordon can't develop into allstars under Jokic's leadership and its even sadder a offensive system can't be develop around him that can operate in his absence
😂1,117 lbs
@@capemanp1110 it Might be 1,115
Jokics' statpadding seems to be getting worse every season. I held off at first, and gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I do think that is what he is doing and this year it's at it's peak. There's really no reason for him to be averaging a triple double with this current roster.
Also, I've never subscribed to the idea that stats are directly correlated to how good a player is. That is why I never thought Harden was better than DWade. It's also why I think of Jokic he would be a middle of the pack big man in the 90's. His stats are inflated due the era he plays in, and the fact he's feasted on the lack of traditional big men. He still hasn't beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs.
You preaching
@@Mandownsports You too man💯
Leaders and record holders for rating player efficiency. On the RACIST BASKETBALL REFERENCE page, before the Nuggets vs New Orleans match, Jokic's PER was 31.86, but according to the last update on 12/24/2024, it was 31.34. With Jokic's performance of 27 points, FG%55, 3P% 66.7, 13 reb., 10 assist., that 3, 1 blk, 1 stl., +/- +6, etc.. As it was a "coincidence" in the season 22/23 when Joki c in the race for the MVP title with the "epileptic" Embiid intervened, the avowed racist Perk implicated Jokica that he won two MVP titles thanks to Aryan blue eyes. He is succeeded by the no less virulent racist Mr. Arenas, who claims that Jokic is dealing with empty numbers, i.e. triple doubles. The empty numbers are when Jokic's main opponent for the MVP title, G. Antetokounmpo, shoots a miserable 17% for 3P, in addition, he shoots a poor FT 61%, and in just one meeting, he shoots a dizzying 26 free throws. In order to get a precise insight into the "empty numbers" this season, Jokic has FT 117/147 against Ganis 167/272, which enables with (+2 from FT per match) 32.7 leads on the list of scorers. In the last 8 matches, Jokic shot a total of 24 FT or 3.0 per match. Therefore, even for Komač's consciousness and conscience, it is indisputably clear what he is talking about.
PS When you hear or read the dintag "Best Team" is actually a new name for "Big Marcet" who was godfathered by the late Nick Writ.
Are you saying Jokic is better then Giannis?? You said a lot bro
@@МиливојеКнежевић nobody cares about per or stat padding. We Like basketball, not numbers
@@Mandownsports it seems to me that you like basketball of a certain color only
@volfi123 no, I just like basketball 🏀
@@Mandownsports just say you don't like joker
Numbers is the major reason why MJ is considered the goat
Points per game is a number dude the scoring title is a number dude and to win defensive player of the Year you have to have great defensive numbers
Sports is All about Numbers so accept that fact you clown
Refs carry Joker too. Bro Steph won 22 with no super team take him off the list he got two no super team
@@rulerhbf refs carried the Warriors that year too