Do you think Henry VIII was a 'perfect prince' in his earlier life, who would be generally well remembered if he'd never abandoned Catherine of Aragon, or do you already see hints of the dangerous aspects of his personality which would come out more clearly in later years? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
I think he was the perfect Renaissance prince. But I think he showed very very early what he could be like when he executed his father’s advisors practically as his first order. They only were doing what Henry VII wanted! He could have taken their titles and sent them to live in the country or something. Cruel thing to do.
I think it’s important to understand how much pressure he felt to continue the Tudor dynasty and how this played into his decision making. Had Catherine and he been able to have a son or multiple sons and daughters I think they would of stayed together and he would if just had mistress’s like other male monarchs of the time. He would of largely been forgotten to history as just another in a long line in English monarchs probably over shadowed by even his father.
@@rage964 Undoubtedly they would have stayed married. No question. I don’t think he would have been necessarily overshadowed by his father, though. He WAS a true Renaissance prince, and they all got a lot of glory, even though 99% were riding on their sires’ backs. I myself think Henry VII was pretty impressive.
In his absolute rule, Henry’s behaviour was a distinct echo of King John. The major difference is that there were no remaining Magnates in the land who were capable of major rebellion, these had all been wiped out in the struggle between York and Lancaster. Had Henry been in the same position that existed a hundred years earlier, might he have been overthrown?
I had a student in History, where she was working on an assignment by her teacher to choose a historical figure that was considered horrible, and then write a report convincing modern day historians and readers that this person wasn't considered a tyrant or bloody for their time, and was considered a "goodly prince or princess." So I told her to choose Henry VIII, and focus on his earlier life before he had Anne executed.
I can only imagine what might have changed if even one of so many turning points had not occurred; if Elizabeth of York hadn't died after her last pregnancy and had lived into Henry VIII's reign, if Prince Arthur had lived, if Henry and Catherine's first liveborn son had lived...this is why historical fiction is such fun, if done right.
I would have loved to see how Elizabeth's last daughter's life would have turned out if she had lived. She would have been the youngest daughter who "killed" her mother, meaning Henry VII would have either spoiled or resented her. And that would all change when she was eight, and her brother became Kind instead. How would he have treated her? Who would she have married? How would she get on with her six sister in laws or her nieces? And if she had outlived Henry, could she have been placed in front of Mary and Elizabeth in the Line of Succession according to the Act of Succession as she was the legitimate daughter of a king?
If little baby Henry had lived, or if Anne hadn’t miscarried those sons in 1535 and 1536, history would have been so different and likely unrecognisable
Poor Catherine of Aragon. She wasn’t raised to be discarded by Henry. It had to be devastating to her. The psychological harm Mary experienced by being alienated from her mother-by her father and being declared a bastard must have caused great despair. Henry was so stuck on having a male heir. I do wonder what Elizabeth I felt about her mother. Can you imagine having your father behead your mother but still have a relationship with him? She really didn’t have a choice.
I know, Catherine had a very bad time of it with him. I'll be talking about how I think his actions affected Mary in my videos on her in a couple of weeks, but in a nutshell, I think she was quite damaged by him. As for Elizabeth, she always played her cards very close to her chest and barely mentioned her mother. She did wear a ring with what is believed to be Anne's portrait in it though, so I think she must have had good feelings towards her overall. She was too clever to draw attention to her mother's fate though, I think because she must have known that to do so would only remind people of her own doubtful legitimacy.
@@HistoryCalling Didn't Elizabeth also have a lot of Boleyn relatives with her before she became queen? She was supposedly very close with that side of her family. I honestly think the reason that she left her mother Anne buried in the tower was for the reasons you mentioned above.
I don't think Elizabeth I got that much trauma from her mother being beheaded by her father (not saying no amount of trauma might be there but i don't think it was that great) Anne Boleyn was never very attached to her daughter emotionally or physically as Elizabeth has spent her entire childhood from the beginning in hands of their maids/servants etc, Anne also use to live in other palace with Henry...but in my opinion Mary's trauma about her mother's condition was way severe as Catherine was actually very attached to her daughter... I can't imagine how it might have felt for Mary knowing her mother is dying and she might have never seen her again in this life...and Catherine might also died with severe grief knowing she didn't get to see her daughter's face at her last moment,she died without knowing how Mary was doing...then again Henry and his advisors made Mary Elizabeth's servent...life was totally a rollercoaster for Mary...
I think Henry was always a spoilt individual, more interested in himself and his own glory. In the early days of his reign, he had few challenges. His marriage was still new, children may still be coming, he was left a large treasury by his father, he was vigorous and successful in the tiltyard. However, as challenges grew, money grew tight, he had no male heir, he military attempts were failing, that's when he self-centered nature came through. His decisions were in his own self interest, not made for the benefit of his people or his country. A fair weather king.
Henry the 8th was not spoiled... he was insane, without one drop of royal blood in his veins. The Tudor line, was a line of bastards. All the Tudors did, was to win the War of The Roses. They were genetic frauds, and why Anne Bolyn was murdered!!!
@@farnorthweaver7793 Not true on his maternal side. Elizabeth of York was the direct descendant from King Edward III which is whom most of the royals trace their lineage to. You can even trace Queen Elizabeth II directly to Elizabeth of York and Edward III. A maternal line does not make them genetic frauds.
It was like that for all the royal peerages in England whether you be a: King or Queen, Duke or Duchess, Marquis or Marchioness, Earl or Countess, Viscount or Viscountess, or Baron or Baroness.
It was like that for all the royal peerages in England whether you be a: King or Queen, Duke or Duchess, Marquis or Marchioness, Earl or Countess, Viscount or Viscountess, or Baron or Baroness.
I always thought it was ironic that despite the obsession of Henry and his father with begetting male heirs, within a few years of Henry VIII's passing all of the claimants to the throne were women. And furthermore it is through a line of women - Margaret Tudor, Elizabeth of Bohemia, and the mother of King George I whose name I forget, that there is Tudor blood on the English throne today.
I know. I bet they'd be rolling in their graves if they knew! :-) All I can say in their defence is that they'd never seen a woman successfully take and hold the English throne (though by Henry VIII's death Mary Queen of Scots was on her throne, but her minority wasn't a very stable situation). I still don't think that justifies Henry's horrific treatment of Anne Boleyn and to only a slightly lesser extent, Catherine of Aragon though, who I think he might have had executed if not for her Spanish family.
@@HistoryCalling When Henry VII agreed to a marriage between his daughter and King James IV of Scotland some advisors expressed concern that it could lead the Stuarts to taking the throne of England. He expressed no concern for it. His minor claim came from his mother after all.
How was Henry VII obsessed with a male heir? Most historians discredit the idea he postponed Elizabeth's coronation until she gave him an heir. Most likely he just didn't want to strain her while pregnant. If he truly was desperate for more male heirs wouldn't he have married after Elizabeth? I know he talked about it, but if he was truly desperate he would have gone through with it, and quickly? Or he wouldn't he have married Henry VIII off sooner so he could provide an heir? He seemed fine with the succession as it was.
As much as I love Anne Boleyn (and for Mary I's tragic lifetime) this story will always sadden me. Henry and Catherine of Aragon were a TRUE power couple. Catherine of Aragon was the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, arguably the most famous/influential power couple in Spanish history; they solidified Spain as a European power, a jewel of the Catholic Empire, and even financed Columbus' voyage to the North American continent. Catherine of Aragon was as big a deal as if Elizabeth I had had a child. If she had been able to provide a male heir (or if their first boy had survived) I truly, TRULY believe that history as we know it would be HUGELY different. England would be different, Europe would be different, and even Britain's great empire might not be what it came to be in the 20th century (there might not even really BE a unified Britain, tbh.)
Oh I completely agree. If little Prince Henry had grown up to be Henry IX and been able to perpetuate the Tudor dynasty, it would be a very different world.
@@HistoryCalling Do you think things would have been different if Margaret didn't have issue? If Henry wasn't pressured by invasion from Scotland, could he have come to accept Mary as heir? He supported female education and sent Mary to Ludlow, so he obviously at least considered it. It also makes me wonder who, if anyone changed his mind or if he came to the conclusion himself. Or maybe Mary had one too many close brushes with death as a child that left him fearing for the succession. Maybe if he and Catherine had multiple surviving girls, or if Mary was in better health? Of course, if this was his concern he should have just married Mary to a Yorkist and have her pop out enough babies to secure the line of succession, then build up the military to defend from Scotland.
One thing that should be mentioned about Catherine's first stillbirth is that she had over six-week-long week infections in her belly afterward. That was why she believed she still had a living child inside her-she was that swollen! This is a very important detail, given later problems they had with pregnancies.
@@annmitchell4663 That is the most likely scenario. Catherine went to childbirth prematurely, before her confiment began and it seems she had atypical labour pains just in knee. She didn't know she was in childbirth until it was too late. It happened during night and instead of rushing for the midwives, those ladies attending to her didn't even inform them and matter was hushed. You know, midwives(at least some of them) even back then would know that most of afterbirth needed to get out. It was the male physicians who didn't have a clue about childbirth and sadly only those were informed. Not Queen's midwives. Hence they couldn't help her. Sadly, not just Henry VIII was sexist in those times. All people were-at least slightly. Male physicians were believed to be experts, even in field they knew nothing about, solely because they were males! Female midwife no matter how experienced was seen as less skilled. Thank God things have changed since!
I’ve never read that. It really seems obvious that it would affect her future fertility and maybe ability to carry a babe to term. Pelvic infections are known to cause scarring on the ovaries and Fallopian tubes. However, Catherine must have had a remarkable constitution and very good care not to have died of what would be called “childbed fever”.
I know, I was watching the news about Prince Philip earlier too. I'm sure it's a huge blow to the Queen. She must barely remember a time without him at this stage of her life. Thanks for watching.
@@alisonridout I agree. It'll be interesting too to see how they manage the funeral given the current circumstances. I wonder if Harry and Meghan will be able to come back from LA for instance... Time will tell I suppose.
@@HistoryCalling don't think Meghan would return. She'd use the excuse of not being able to fly due to her pregnancy. Prince Harry would have a right to be there although it would be stressful for all family members to see him
@@alisonridout Yes, I'm not sure how they'll handle it. She might want to come to support him, but equally, she does have a very good, genuine reason for not wanting to fly halfway around the world at the moment. That much travel and jetlag is unpleasant enough at the best of times, never mind if you're heavily pregnant.
If only Henry and Katherine could have had a couple of surviving sons (an “heir and a spare”)! Life under his reign would have been so different and hundreds of people need not have died. Henry would have played around a bit with the ladies, no question; with his status and power, it would almost have been expected of him. However, Katherine had the tolerance and serenity to cope with that. But I truly believe that, safe in the knowledge that he had legitimate sons to safeguard the dynasty, he would not have descended into the brutal and ruthless despot he later became. All his promise as a young prince was corrupted by his obsession for an heir. So, by conclusion, if they’d had better medical knowledge in that era, everything would have worked out differently!
Mary Tudor was raised and educated to be a Renaissance Princess by her mother Katherine of Aragon, and was paraded around court by her father as his Pearl. She had a very happy childhood with all the requirements and excesses of a Princess of royal blood. She was shown off to all the dignitaries and ambassadors of the royal court from around the World, and was being matched up to future Kings as a prospective wife. It wasn't until Mary Tudor was 17 that Parliament had declared her illegitimate and removed her from the Succession. Granted Mary was a young teen when her father started courting Anne. So she went from being a royal Princess to the daughter of a cast off Spanish Princess who was being replaced by a still vibrant King and father. When they say some people fall, she had fallen from the very top, to being a Lady of Court, the next heir to the thrown, to another subject out of many. She not only lost the affection of her father, and was replaced with Anne and Elizabeth I, but she monetarily was placed on an income where her house hold was cut-back to a bare minimum. The most humiliating aspect was when Mary had to join Elizabeth I's household, and wait on her as a Lady in Waiting, and refer to her as Princess. Then she was separated from her mother as punishment for not recognizing Anne as Queen, and not conforming to the new religion.
Eh, Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville had the "heir and the spare" and everything still fell apart after Edward died. Life was very uncertain in the Tudor era.
I think that Henry's attitude to his illegitimate son, Henry Fitz Roy, absolutely destroys the notion that either of Mary Boleyn's children, especially Henry Carey, were fathered by King Henry. If Henry VIII had had a living son available, that boy would have been brought forward. It's not just what he would have done, it's what he did do when he had a son to promote.
It would have been highly embarrassing and awkward to recognise Mary's children once he got involved with Anne! And Mary did have something of a reputation so he probably wasn't as certain of the paternity of her children.
@@lilymarinovic1644 More embarrassing than claiming that Anne had been committing incest with her own brother? Henry was a grabber and would have happily grabbed anything or anyone to which he thought that he was entitled.
He could not produce as an heir, even if he were very positive the child was his, the son of another man born in a legal marriage to the mother. Even if he had defied both the church and the law to do so, the questionable legal status of that child would have made him useless as an heir.
so interesting to see a spotlight on the early bit of henry's life, his so tied up in the 6 wives and how he got rid of them in most versions we see of his life
I agree. She has a very good voice for this kind of thing. Not all women have voices that are clear but nice and neutral enough to listen to for long periods of time. Some ladies have very squeaky voices… and thats a bit too much. Then there are the ladies with voices that are too harsh or deep maybe. So a perfect little balance of sweet, but not squeaky is just what sounds nice and is exactly what the narrator of this video possesses *-*!!!
I understand the dynastic dilemma, Henry had to have a male heir or chaos would reign in England again. I visited Peterborough Cathedral when I was stationed in England from 1983 to 87 (I lived in Stilton). I was struck by a very somber spirit and grief surrounding her tomb. I have a book on their relationship and I was struck by his love for Katherine and the tragedy of the choices he had to make concerning the dynasty. I believe he meant well, but the need for an heir led him to many destructive choices. In your video about Henry's mental health vis a vis the fall he took at the tilt, one thing is overlooked. He had a dangerous infection in his leg that caused him much sickness and pain, plus he stunk of rot. As aman who lives in constant pain, I know well the struggle to maintain a civil state of mind.
Just found your channel and subscribed - I’ve been looking for a Thomas Cromwell video? Not sure if you have one. Anyway, love what you’re doing and thank you!! 💓
Very nice! I always through that Anne had been at court for a long time before Henry noticed her. I didn’t realize she was still at the French court. Makes more sense.
Thank you. You're not wrong about her being at the English court for quite some time too before she caught Henry's eye. She came back to England in roughly 1521 and it was at least 1526 before he started to pursue her (as far as we know at least).
Anyone who is given such immense privilege and standing without earning any of it, and being constantly told "You are the best, Your Royal Highness" is going to have major ego issues. That kind of treatment results in a tyrant very quickly, one who blames everyone else for his mistakes, sees the world and everyone in it as objects to be possessed, and worst, that he is, in his own right, a god: omnipotent and gifted of the Almighty. The losses Henry VIII suffered during his childhood and young adulthood could only have served to deepen his narcissism in that he survived while others did not. In no way does this excuse his execution of 2 of his wives nor his behavior especially to Catherine of Aragon, it does explain it. The whole thing is a sure recipe for malignant narcissism, and I doubt, having listened to your accounts of his supposed injuries, that physical sources were likely. Though chronic pain can produce depression and sleeplessness, I can say from personal experience that it does NOT necessarily produce a vicious and vituperative temper. It could, however, deepen his sense of loss of masculinity, and in a malignant narcissist, that's just plain dangerous. It's more than enough to explain how he treated his wives and friends.
At the same time I know Henry grew up to be a tyrant and must've been really difficult to deal with, I feel sorry for him. Not only did he lose loved ones (mother, siblings, children), but with each loss the pressure increased. His father ruled by right of conquest; what was to stop anyone else from trying to take it from him? I can only imagine how anxious this must have made him
I've visited the remains of Ludlow Castle and learned Mary, Queen of Scotts was held there during Elisabeth I Have you thought to publish a history of The Tudors in hard cover?
I Think Henry would have been a nicer King And stayed with Catherine if she would have the correct care after her first miscarriage. And not have the infection in her uterus. Also some women have a weak cervix and in order for them to carry a child they get a stich once pregnant to keep the child. I think if would the midwives would have been called instead of a male physician who were not taught about child birth. Midwives would have known more about miscarriage than a male at that time.
THANK YOU SANDRA FOR DONATING TO THE CHANNEL. :-) Perhaps different medical care would have helped her, yes. I tend to think that had she lived now many more of her pregnancies would have been successful as she obviously got pregnant easily enough and that's often over half the battle. We'll never know though.
Artists sure have come a VERY VERY long way from those times. The paintings of all of the royal family members obviously do not fully depict their true images. It would be amazing if the artists of those times could have actually captured exactly what they all looked like.
Love all your videos! I’m going back over the old ones 🙂 just one small error: Henry Fitzroy was never the Earl of Northumberland. That was the Percy family at that time (the young Henry Percy, Anne Boleyn’s first love, was about to become Earl when his father, another Henry Percy, died in 1527).
History Calling I know this story is off the subject of your video but do you give any credence to the story at the Swineshead abbey in Lincolnshire about the monk who drew fluid from a toad with a brooch pen and put it in an ale that King John drank and later died from? I heard this story didn't come around until in between 60 to 70 years after John's death in 1216. I'm more familiar with the dysentery he was sick with that ended his life but what do you think?
I heard a surfeit of eels was the cause of the greedy king's death. No person of note died suddenly in those days (and beyond) without rumors starting that he or she had been poisoned. Dysentery seems much more likely than frog venom.
Henry’s baby portrait shows an astonishing resemblance to the most famous and often seen portrait of him as a middle aged obese king. So much so I wonder if the baby portrait was painted at a later time, using the adult portrait as a model.
The question regarding if Catherine of Aragon likely consummated her marriage to Arthur - likely. They were 15 and anyone at that age can attest that hormones rage during that time. There would have been no impediments to them sleeping together since they had been legally (and sanctioned by the church) as married and they lived together for months. It is argued that it was only a diplomatic arrangement and so it is likely that they weren't rushing to sleep together, but there are several accounts that palace staff were aware they had been sleeping together. Though it is likely that they never even spent much time together once married, as there is evidence that their marital encounters weren't very successful, I doubt they didn't try.
I admit my own opinions owe a lot, even today, to the fiction I read as a young adult, but I’ve always felt sorry for Catherine. I mentioned in a comment on another vid that Henry obviously had a problem with impulse control, and really he could have had ADD. He also, imo, was like a toddler, “I want it, want it, want it,” throw tantrums etc until he got whatever or whoever it was, then “Nope, don’t want it (her) any more, get rid of her.” He wanted Catherine desperately because she had been Arthur’s, and he thought he was more deserving of everything more so than Arthur. It seems they were a loving couple for quite a few years. But Catherine’s appearance was suffering from age and her miscarriages and she was, to his perception, endlessly and needlessly religious. Frequent fast days also meant many days marital sex wasn’t allowed, too, and Catherine spent increasing time fasting and praying as she became more desperate for a son. Her ageing appearance combined with his being bored by her, and looking for distraction….and along came Anne.
I would LOVE to know how accurate the portraits are of these famous people. Especially when they look like completely different people from artist to artist, and throughout the years. It drives me crazy! They were supposed to be the best artists at the time, but I don't feel they're good portraits. Sorry for rambling.
Its documented that Oliver Cromwell destroyed 80% of ancient British artifacts made before him. He hired many artists, to re-do paintings to his own standards and liking. Which is probably why there are so many discrepancies, in so many paintings.
He was was destined for the church before the death of his brother, but excelled in vigorous sport and games. After Arthur died, Henry VII forced him to lead a very circumscribed life without any avoidable risk, lest he too die. So between Arthur's death and his father's he was allowed very little freedom, a situation he chafed under.
From what I've read about the sons of William the Conqueror, Henry I being the most famous, I'd say that young Henry VIII was following right in the mold of previous monarchs. By our standards, none were very good; but, by the standards of their time they were quite normal.
I might include that in next week's video if I can fit it in. Some people think he wrote it and others disagree, but it's a great story either way, possibly worthy of its own video at some point :-)
@@HistoryCalling Less disputed is the song ‘Past Time with Good Company’. There are many good versions on YT including those with the song being played by ensembles containing various authentic instruments of the age.
Greensleeves was the song in Lassie? I thought I saw them all as a child, but none had Greensleeves as the title song. It was a sad song and was whistled, it made me cry so much every time that my Mother bought me a Steiff Collie, since she thought I cried because the show was over. But I still have it in my ears, and it was not Greensleeves. And the other Lassie shows had other songs, too.
Henry didn't want a repeat of the wars of the roses or the anarchy during the time of king stephen and his cousin the true queen back then the empress matilda. So because of this he needed a male heir. A woman as far as he was concerned could not fight with sword in hand on the field of battle. I mean if England was like Spain that already had a female monarch in its own right meaning Isabel Of Castile than maybe he would have been alright with his daughter mary succeeding him. But at the same time if mary still had the same problems having children like she did when she married philip ii, than the throne would have passed to the grey family or to the stuarts which happened anyway with the union of the crowns in 1603 with his great- great nephew James I of england/ VI Of Scotland
Yup, Northern Irish. The word tower really seems to throw everyone. I get so many comments on it (though sadly not all as nice as yours - some people attempt to 'correct' my pronunciation so that I sound American) :-)
I am Canadian but have always loved the colorful history of the Tudors. I am sure Canadian history would be interesting but only Pierre Berton has ever delved into it. And England's history is much older.
Its crazy to me that henry VIII was so obsessed with having a son. We know now its the males sperm that determines the sex of of a child. Back then they thought it was up to the women or God weather it would be a boy or a girl. I just wonder what would have happened if they knew bk then what we know now about sperm.
Awesome thanks for good luck 🤞 in ☠️💀🦴🖤 understanding don't worry ☺️ are the 👑 Henry was really good 😊 king 👑 prince of defender of the faith, royalty family 💞 Love 😘❤️. awesome 😎 invasion ❤️😘 really nice to hear.
I've just started reading this video, was in garden but it's so hot out there I've had to come in, anyway I think it's sad katherine had no sons it might have made a difference to Henry, but I still think he would have been cruel your personality doesn't change, but that fall he had when he was unconscious for two hours would have made a difference, don't you think? but Katherine would have been good for Henry.
Henry VII showed he had a heart of steel. He did, understandably, grow miserly and overprotective. I do think that Henry VIII might not have done so much damage if he hadn't had the fortune his father had built. In my view, Henry VII ultimately did his son a disservice in his greed and over protectiveness
Storytime: Hearing that King Henry VIII and Queen Catherine of Aragon were married on June 11th, my first thought went to this. "Well, that explains my first marriage. We were married on June 11th and he cheated on me with another woman too. Course they didn't get married, but it's still hilarious"
People are not born bad. But given enough power to do and have whatever is desired, people become cruel and insensitive to others. Henry was born in a time when killing people was a way to achieve power, and power was everything.
It's the third in the Tudor monarchs series, but the first on Henry VIII. I thought it was better to number them like that as I thought it would look odd, especially to people not familiar with the channel and the series, if (for example) Edward VI's video is listed as 'part 6' even though he only lived to 15 and will probably only need one video to cover his life.
I always thought that it is perhaps life’s great karma that Henry’s obsession for a male heir was never as successful as he had thought in establishing a Tudor dynasty and that in the end, it is the bloodline of his two sisters Mary and Margaret that sits on the throne today given that Queen Elizabeth II from both maternal and paternal sides descends from Henry’s two sisters. Also hilarious that Henry’s close friend Charles Brandon through his marriage to Mary would also make him a maternal line direct ancestor of the current Queen. It seems all the people who weren’t chopping off people’s heads to desperately gain power and dynasty succeeded where Henry failed.
Monster in the making. The clue was in slaughtering his father's financial advisors when he took the throne. Those men were presumably only following what his father had demanded of them. I also didn't much like the idea of Katherine even considering sending to Henry in France the presumably rotting corpse of the poor slaughtered King of Scotland either. She doesn't sound as though she was much better than Henry. Perhaps therefore, less deserving of sympathy and more ruthless than the sentimental opinion of her devotion to Henry suggests.
I watched a video with David Starkey and he believes that Empson and Dudley were being blamed by Lady Margaret Beaufort just before the king's death for his financial tyranny, it is on YT and very interesting so maybe Mags pushed her young grandson to it to make his dad look innocent? Food for thought anyway.
Katherine was her mother's daughter--another warrior queen. Her parents Isabella and Ferdinand were second cousins from lines that had already intermarried abundantly, and her maternal grandmother and her sister suffered from mental imbalance, so there may have been something unfortunate passed down to Katherine herself. No one who stubbornly endured the treatment Henry dealt out to her could have been weak, and her adherence to her faith may have contained an aspect of the rigid and obsessive.
As I said before I’ll say again, the tv show (that I really like my guilty pleasure) the tudors really really didn’t care about history regarding Henry’s sister, according to them it was the king of Portugal she married then killed with a pillow only thing they got right was marrying Charles Brandon without permission
Catherine had all the cards , she could have negotiated for anything she wanted divorced him and lived happy until she died Anne would have still had her fate ….. I know she loved him and could not see herself losing him I know I know but in hindsight…..
No he wanted her to enter a convent after the annulment which not only humiliated her but destroyed her life and that of her rightful heir to the throne Mary
@@angelabender8132 I’m pretty sure the convent was Wosleys and the the other cardinals idea is was not Henry’s , but if she would have agreed to it he would take it , he just wanted out of the marriage to get a heir by someone else, just like Anne of Cleaves gave him what he wanted so he treated her very well , had cleaves done otherwise she would have had a different outcome. Mary was not going to go directly to the throne if a boy would have been available, but in the end he did put her back in the line to inherit the throne , he would have done so had Catherine agreed to divorce him anyway as the people would have fought for her just like they did.
She refused to make a nonsense of her life and the tenets of the church by agreeing to divorce him. And she was fighting to maintain and protect the status of her daughter. She would not have lived happily if she had had to enter a convent and know that Mary had been made illegitimate. There are ways in which her struggle has always seemed a little crazy to me, but I also can understand her rejection of a result that made a lie of her whole life. AND she was not a princess of Spain and the daughter of Isabella of Castile for nothing.
By all accounts Henry became a monster after Anne Boleyn. Anne was extremely ruthless and encouraged Henry to get rid of Katherine, and indeed anyone else who stood in the way of her becoming queen. What she did not realize was that she was going to find herself in the same position as Katherine and Henry could rid himself of Anne much more easily as Anne was no princess of Spain. Plus the injury when jousting ruined his health and caused him much pain.
Henry had already been in talks to divorce Katherine before he even began pursuing Anne. While there’s no way to know for certain how she was as a person, Henry was selfish and a tyrant king after Anne’s execution so it’s entirely unfair to say she’s the reason for his cruelty. I do think chronic pain could’ve impacted him but it was Henry’s obsession with having a son that led to his most drastic decisions and his own narcissism that made him unable to accept any pushback from anyone so he reacted with violence toward anyone who questioned him. And again nearly all we know about Anne is based on lies, rumors and gossip from the powerful Spanish family of Katherine of Aragon who obviously would’ve hated her. There’s no real evidence Anne was this evil and ruthless woman, plus Henry was incredibly sexist there’s no way he would’ve let himself be led by a woman.
Men think for themselves; ascribing his tyranny to Anne and ONLY Anne would indicate an utterly spineless man, which we can surely attest Henry was not. Blame the cruel men of history for their own actions.
He was always bad. A narcissist doesn't suddenly develop in his 40s. A spoilt, indulged child, maybe? Think about what he did to the remaining Plantagenets upon his succession to the throne? He was cruel from the get-go.
Do you think Henry VIII was a 'perfect prince' in his earlier life, who would be generally well remembered if he'd never abandoned Catherine of Aragon, or do you already see hints of the dangerous aspects of his personality which would come out more clearly in later years? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
I think he was the perfect Renaissance prince. But I think he showed very very early what he could be like when he executed his father’s advisors practically as his first order. They only were doing what Henry VII wanted! He could have taken their titles and sent them to live in the country or something. Cruel thing to do.
I think it’s important to understand how much pressure he felt to continue the Tudor dynasty and how this played into his decision making. Had Catherine and he been able to have a son or multiple sons and daughters I think they would of stayed together and he would if just had mistress’s like other male monarchs of the time. He would of largely been forgotten to history as just another in a long line in English monarchs probably over shadowed by even his father.
@@rage964 Undoubtedly they would have stayed married. No question. I don’t think he would have been necessarily overshadowed by his father, though. He WAS a true Renaissance prince, and they all got a lot of glory, even though 99% were riding on their sires’ backs. I myself think Henry VII was pretty impressive.
In his absolute rule, Henry’s behaviour was a distinct echo of King John.
The major difference is that there were no remaining Magnates in the land who were capable of major rebellion, these had all been wiped out in the struggle between York and Lancaster.
Had Henry been in the same position that existed a hundred years earlier, might he have been overthrown?
I had a student in History, where she was working on an assignment by her teacher to choose a historical figure that was considered horrible, and then write a report convincing modern day historians and readers that this person wasn't considered a tyrant or bloody for their time, and was considered a "goodly prince or princess." So I told her to choose Henry VIII, and focus on his earlier life before he had Anne executed.
I can only imagine what might have changed if even one of so many turning points had not occurred; if Elizabeth of York hadn't died after her last pregnancy and had lived into Henry VIII's reign, if Prince Arthur had lived, if Henry and Catherine's first liveborn son had lived...this is why historical fiction is such fun, if done right.
I would have loved to see how Elizabeth's last daughter's life would have turned out if she had lived. She would have been the youngest daughter who "killed" her mother, meaning Henry VII would have either spoiled or resented her. And that would all change when she was eight, and her brother became Kind instead. How would he have treated her? Who would she have married? How would she get on with her six sister in laws or her nieces? And if she had outlived Henry, could she have been placed in front of Mary and Elizabeth in the Line of Succession according to the Act of Succession as she was the legitimate daughter of a king?
If little baby Henry had lived, or if Anne hadn’t miscarried those sons in 1535 and 1536, history would have been so different and likely unrecognisable
These videos are so interesting to watch. I look forward to watching them especially at night when I am trying to unwind.
Poor Catherine of Aragon. She wasn’t raised to be discarded by Henry. It had to be devastating to her. The psychological harm Mary experienced by being alienated from her mother-by her father and being declared a bastard must have caused great despair. Henry was so stuck on having a male heir. I do wonder what Elizabeth I felt about her mother. Can you imagine having your father behead your mother but still have a relationship with him? She really didn’t have a choice.
I know, Catherine had a very bad time of it with him. I'll be talking about how I think his actions affected Mary in my videos on her in a couple of weeks, but in a nutshell, I think she was quite damaged by him. As for Elizabeth, she always played her cards very close to her chest and barely mentioned her mother. She did wear a ring with what is believed to be Anne's portrait in it though, so I think she must have had good feelings towards her overall. She was too clever to draw attention to her mother's fate though, I think because she must have known that to do so would only remind people of her own doubtful legitimacy.
@@HistoryCalling I’m looking forward to future videos! I’m so glad I found your site!!
@@HistoryCalling Didn't Elizabeth also have a lot of Boleyn relatives with her before she became queen? She was supposedly very close with that side of her family. I honestly think the reason that she left her mother Anne buried in the tower was for the reasons you mentioned above.
@@goddessphantom Ironically enough, it was those hardships that made Elizabeth into A strong and successful queen.
I don't think Elizabeth I got that much trauma from her mother being beheaded by her father (not saying no amount of trauma might be there but i don't think it was that great) Anne Boleyn was never very attached to her daughter emotionally or physically as Elizabeth has spent her entire childhood from the beginning in hands of their maids/servants etc, Anne also use to live in other palace with Henry...but in my opinion Mary's trauma about her mother's condition was way severe as Catherine was actually very attached to her daughter... I can't imagine how it might have felt for Mary knowing her mother is dying and she might have never seen her again in this life...and Catherine might also died with severe grief knowing she didn't get to see her daughter's face at her last moment,she died without knowing how Mary was doing...then again Henry and his advisors made Mary Elizabeth's servent...life was totally a rollercoaster for Mary...
I think Henry was always a spoilt individual, more interested in himself and his own glory. In the early days of his reign, he had few challenges. His marriage was still new, children may still be coming, he was left a large treasury by his father, he was vigorous and successful in the tiltyard. However, as challenges grew, money grew tight, he had no male heir, he military attempts were failing, that's when he self-centered nature came through. His decisions were in his own self interest, not made for the benefit of his people or his country. A fair weather king.
I think that's an excellent summary of his personality. He certainly didn't deal well with adversity and liked to blame others for it, then kill them!
Wolsey ran the government and left Henry to pursue his pleasures.
Henry the 8th was not spoiled... he was insane, without one drop of royal blood in his veins. The Tudor line, was a line of bastards. All the Tudors did, was to win the War of The Roses. They were genetic frauds, and why Anne Bolyn was murdered!!!
@@farnorthweaver7793 Not true on his maternal side. Elizabeth of York was the direct descendant from King Edward III which is whom most of the royals trace their lineage to. You can even trace Queen Elizabeth II directly to Elizabeth of York and Edward III. A maternal line does not make them genetic frauds.
They are raised and groomed for this, they know no other way. They think they are Divine, God-like.
I AM absolutely addicted to Tudor history. Thank you for making it available to me 🎀x
Yours is my favourite channel in all things concerning the Tudors.Thank you for the exquisite work. Friendly greetings from Austria!
I think it is so crazy that a princess could lose her worth with a snap of a finger. No wonder there was constant intrigue.
I know, it was a cut-throat world, especially for the ladies.
It was like that for all the royal peerages in England whether you be a: King or Queen, Duke or Duchess, Marquis or Marchioness, Earl or Countess, Viscount or Viscountess, or Baron or Baroness.
It was like that for all the royal peerages in England whether you be a: King or Queen, Duke or Duchess, Marquis or Marchioness, Earl or Countess, Viscount or Viscountess, or Baron or Baroness.
We had a long drive and spent the time listening to several of your videos on Henry VII, VII, and VIII
Wow. I’m learning details and perspectives from your videos I’ve never heard before. Thank you for sharing your sources too. Liked & subscribed!
I always thought it was ironic that despite the obsession of Henry and his father with begetting male heirs, within a few years of Henry VIII's passing all of the claimants to the throne were women. And furthermore it is through a line of women - Margaret Tudor, Elizabeth of Bohemia, and the mother of King George I whose name I forget, that there is Tudor blood on the English throne today.
I know. I bet they'd be rolling in their graves if they knew! :-) All I can say in their defence is that they'd never seen a woman successfully take and hold the English throne (though by Henry VIII's death Mary Queen of Scots was on her throne, but her minority wasn't a very stable situation). I still don't think that justifies Henry's horrific treatment of Anne Boleyn and to only a slightly lesser extent, Catherine of Aragon though, who I think he might have had executed if not for her Spanish family.
@@HistoryCalling When Henry VII agreed to a marriage between his daughter and King James IV of Scotland some advisors expressed concern that it could lead the Stuarts to taking the throne of England. He expressed no concern for it. His minor claim came from his mother after all.
How was Henry VII obsessed with a male heir? Most historians discredit the idea he postponed Elizabeth's coronation until she gave him an heir. Most likely he just didn't want to strain her while pregnant.
If he truly was desperate for more male heirs wouldn't he have married after Elizabeth? I know he talked about it, but if he was truly desperate he would have gone through with it, and quickly? Or he wouldn't he have married Henry VIII off sooner so he could provide an heir? He seemed fine with the succession as it was.
As much as I love Anne Boleyn (and for Mary I's tragic lifetime) this story will always sadden me. Henry and Catherine of Aragon were a TRUE power couple. Catherine of Aragon was the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, arguably the most famous/influential power couple in Spanish history; they solidified Spain as a European power, a jewel of the Catholic Empire, and even financed Columbus' voyage to the North American continent. Catherine of Aragon was as big a deal as if Elizabeth I had had a child.
If she had been able to provide a male heir (or if their first boy had survived) I truly, TRULY believe that history as we know it would be HUGELY different. England would be different, Europe would be different, and even Britain's great empire might not be what it came to be in the 20th century (there might not even really BE a unified Britain, tbh.)
Oh I completely agree. If little Prince Henry had grown up to be Henry IX and been able to perpetuate the Tudor dynasty, it would be a very different world.
There may not have been a Protestant Revolution.
@@HistoryCalling
Do you think things would have been different if Margaret didn't have issue? If Henry wasn't pressured by invasion from Scotland, could he have come to accept Mary as heir? He supported female education and sent Mary to Ludlow, so he obviously at least considered it. It also makes me wonder who, if anyone changed his mind or if he came to the conclusion himself. Or maybe Mary had one too many close brushes with death as a child that left him fearing for the succession. Maybe if he and Catherine had multiple surviving girls, or if Mary was in better health? Of course, if this was his concern he should have just married Mary to a Yorkist and have her pop out enough babies to secure the line of succession, then build up the military to defend from Scotland.
One thing that should be mentioned about Catherine's first stillbirth is that she had over six-week-long week infections in her belly afterward. That was why she believed she still had a living child inside her-she was that swollen! This is a very important detail, given later problems they had with pregnancies.
Yes, I'd be very keen to know what was going on there too and if it affected her long term.
I wonder if it was an infection brought on by some of the afterbirth not completely coming away..?
@@annmitchell4663 That is the most likely scenario.
Catherine went to childbirth prematurely, before her confiment began and it seems she had atypical labour pains just in knee. She didn't know she was in childbirth until it was too late. It happened during night and instead of rushing for the midwives, those ladies attending to her didn't even inform them and matter was hushed.
You know, midwives(at least some of them) even back then would know that most of afterbirth needed to get out.
It was the male physicians who didn't have a clue about childbirth and sadly only those were informed. Not Queen's midwives.
Hence they couldn't help her.
Sadly, not just Henry VIII was sexist in those times. All people were-at least slightly. Male physicians were believed to be experts, even in field they knew nothing about, solely because they were males! Female midwife no matter how experienced was seen as less skilled.
Thank God things have changed since!
I’ve never read that. It really seems obvious that it would affect her future fertility and maybe ability to carry a babe to term. Pelvic infections are known to cause scarring on the ovaries and Fallopian tubes. However, Catherine must have had a remarkable constitution and very good care not to have died of what would be called “childbed fever”.
Watching this on the anniversary of the death of Edward IV and the sad day of the news of Prince Philip.
Great video. Alison
I know, I was watching the news about Prince Philip earlier too. I'm sure it's a huge blow to the Queen. She must barely remember a time without him at this stage of her life. Thanks for watching.
@@HistoryCalling I found the news so so sad as I'm a devout royalist and realise he'll be sorely missed by so many people
@@alisonridout I agree. It'll be interesting too to see how they manage the funeral given the current circumstances. I wonder if Harry and Meghan will be able to come back from LA for instance... Time will tell I suppose.
@@HistoryCalling don't think Meghan would return. She'd use the excuse of not being able to fly due to her pregnancy.
Prince Harry would have a right to be there although it would be stressful for all family members to see him
@@alisonridout Yes, I'm not sure how they'll handle it. She might want to come to support him, but equally, she does have a very good, genuine reason for not wanting to fly halfway around the world at the moment. That much travel and jetlag is unpleasant enough at the best of times, never mind if you're heavily pregnant.
If only Henry and Katherine could have had a couple of surviving sons (an “heir and a spare”)! Life under his reign would have been so different and hundreds of people need not have died. Henry would have played around a bit with the ladies, no question; with his status and power, it would almost have been expected of him. However, Katherine had the tolerance and serenity to cope with that. But I truly believe that, safe in the knowledge that he had legitimate sons to safeguard the dynasty, he would not have descended into the brutal and ruthless despot he later became. All his promise as a young prince was corrupted by his obsession for an heir. So, by conclusion, if they’d had better medical knowledge in that era, everything would have worked out differently!
Yes, I think with even one living boy, it would have been a very different world, then and now.
Mary Tudor was raised and educated to be a Renaissance Princess by her mother Katherine of Aragon, and was paraded around court by her father as his Pearl. She had a very happy childhood with all the requirements and excesses of a Princess of royal blood. She was shown off to all the dignitaries and ambassadors of the royal court from around the World, and was being matched up to future Kings as a prospective wife. It wasn't until Mary Tudor was 17 that Parliament had declared her illegitimate and removed her from the Succession. Granted Mary was a young teen when her father started courting Anne. So she went from being a royal Princess to the daughter of a cast off Spanish Princess who was being replaced by a still vibrant King and father. When they say some people fall, she had fallen from the very top, to being a Lady of Court, the next heir to the thrown, to another subject out of many. She not only lost the affection of her father, and was replaced with Anne and Elizabeth I, but she monetarily was placed on an income where her house hold was cut-back to a bare minimum. The most humiliating aspect was when Mary had to join Elizabeth I's household, and wait on her as a Lady in Waiting, and refer to her as Princess. Then she was separated from her mother as punishment for not recognizing Anne as Queen, and not conforming to the new religion.
Eh, Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville had the "heir and the spare" and everything still fell apart after Edward died. Life was very uncertain in the Tudor era.
@@HistoryCalling we wouldn't have the church of England for one thing.
I think that Henry's attitude to his illegitimate son, Henry Fitz Roy, absolutely destroys the notion that either of Mary Boleyn's children, especially Henry Carey, were fathered by King Henry. If Henry VIII had had a living son available, that boy would have been brought forward. It's not just what he would have done, it's what he did do when he had a son to promote.
Henry might not have been convinced Henry Carey was his son but he could easily be wrong, he readily believed whatever he wanted.
It would have been highly embarrassing and awkward to recognise Mary's children once he got involved with Anne!
And Mary did have something of a reputation so he probably wasn't as certain of the paternity of her children.
@@lilymarinovic1644 More embarrassing than claiming that Anne had been committing incest with her own brother? Henry was a grabber and would have happily grabbed anything or anyone to which he thought that he was entitled.
He could not produce as an heir, even if he were very positive the child was his, the son of another man born in a legal marriage to the mother. Even if he had defied both the church and the law to do so, the questionable legal status of that child would have made him useless as an heir.
This was so detailed, in emotional and fact filled, thank you!
Un emotional
You're very welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed it :-)
so interesting to see a spotlight on the early bit of henry's life, his so tied up in the 6 wives and how he got rid of them in most versions we see of his life
Very informative videos, I could listen to your voice all day 😁 so happy I found your channel...new favourite x
Hi Dionne, thank you so much. That's very kind of you to say. I'm glad you're enjoying the channel.
I agree. She has a very good voice for this kind of thing. Not all women have voices that are clear but nice and neutral enough to listen to for long periods of time. Some ladies have very squeaky voices… and thats a bit too much. Then there are the ladies with voices that are too harsh or deep maybe. So a perfect little balance of sweet, but not squeaky is just what sounds nice and is exactly what the narrator of this video possesses *-*!!!
Just think of the countless lives that could have been saved if one of Henry and Catherine's male children had lived.
I understand the dynastic dilemma, Henry had to have a male heir or chaos would reign in England again. I visited Peterborough Cathedral when I was stationed in England from 1983 to 87 (I lived in Stilton). I was struck by a very somber spirit and grief surrounding her tomb. I have a book on their relationship and I was struck by his love for Katherine and the tragedy of the choices he had to make concerning the dynasty. I believe he meant well, but the need for an heir led him to many destructive choices. In your video about Henry's mental health vis a vis the fall he took at the tilt, one thing is overlooked. He had a dangerous infection in his leg that caused him much sickness and pain, plus he stunk of rot. As aman who lives in constant pain, I know well the struggle to maintain a civil state of mind.
Just found your channel and subscribed - I’ve been looking for a Thomas Cromwell video? Not sure if you have one.
Anyway, love what you’re doing and thank you!! 💓
Very nice! I always through that Anne had been at court for a long time before Henry noticed her. I didn’t realize she was still at the French court. Makes more sense.
Thank you. You're not wrong about her being at the English court for quite some time too before she caught Henry's eye. She came back to England in roughly 1521 and it was at least 1526 before he started to pursue her (as far as we know at least).
Can you do a video on the life of Lady Jane Grey? It saddens me that she’s not recognised as an official Queen 😢
This is my favorite video so far. Thanks!
Thank you :-)
Anyone who is given such immense privilege and standing without earning any of it, and being constantly told "You are the best, Your Royal Highness" is going to have major ego issues. That kind of treatment results in a tyrant very quickly, one who blames everyone else for his mistakes, sees the world and everyone in it as objects to be possessed, and worst, that he is, in his own right, a god: omnipotent and gifted of the Almighty. The losses Henry VIII suffered during his childhood and young adulthood could only have served to deepen his narcissism in that he survived while others did not. In no way does this excuse his execution of 2 of his wives nor his behavior especially to Catherine of Aragon, it does explain it. The whole thing is a sure recipe for malignant narcissism, and I doubt, having listened to your accounts of his supposed injuries, that physical sources were likely. Though chronic pain can produce depression and sleeplessness, I can say from personal experience that it does NOT necessarily produce a vicious and vituperative temper. It could, however, deepen his sense of loss of masculinity, and in a malignant narcissist, that's just plain dangerous. It's more than enough to explain how he treated his wives and friends.
At the same time I know Henry grew up to be a tyrant and must've been really difficult to deal with, I feel sorry for him. Not only did he lose loved ones (mother, siblings, children), but with each loss the pressure increased. His father ruled by right of conquest; what was to stop anyone else from trying to take it from him? I can only imagine how anxious this must have made him
History ❤
I've visited the remains of Ludlow Castle and learned Mary, Queen of Scotts was held there during Elisabeth I
Have you thought to publish a history of The Tudors in hard cover?
Just so you know you are my new favorite!!
Aww, thank you so much. That made me smile :-)
Enjoyed very much! Thank you very much!
Henry's two sisters thought: Damn all, I'd rather be happy.
Love anything Tudor 😍Thank you 🙏
I Think Henry would have been a nicer King
And stayed with Catherine if she would have the correct care after her first miscarriage. And not have the infection in her uterus. Also some women have a weak cervix and in order for them to carry a child they get a stich once pregnant to keep the child. I think if would the midwives would have been called instead of a male physician who were not taught about child birth. Midwives would have known more about miscarriage than a male at that time.
THANK YOU SANDRA FOR DONATING TO THE CHANNEL. :-) Perhaps different medical care would have helped her, yes. I tend to think that had she lived now many more of her pregnancies would have been successful as she obviously got pregnant easily enough and that's often over half the battle. We'll never know though.
Fascinating love these
Artists sure have come a VERY VERY long way from those times. The paintings of all of the royal family members obviously do not fully depict their true images. It would be amazing if the artists of those times could have actually captured exactly what they all looked like.
I was thinking the same thing while watching another video. Surely someone was around that could do better portraits.
Or they really did look like that ...
Love all your videos! I’m going back over the old ones 🙂 just one small error: Henry Fitzroy was never the Earl of Northumberland. That was the Percy family at that time (the young Henry Percy, Anne Boleyn’s first love, was about to become Earl when his father, another Henry Percy, died in 1527).
British History ROCKS!!!🇬🇧👑👸🤴💖💕🥰
I think Henry was a monster in the making!😮
Tthank you.
Please do a series about Isabella of Castile
I think Henry felt like if he didn’t make these big moves that he was done for
That could very well be true.
Love your accent. Just stumbled on your channel.
Thank you and welcome to the channel :-)
Its crazy how these kings executed their loyal counselors and civil servants who did all the work. Seems crazy to take a job working for one.
Where is the link to the video about Katherine of Aragon? It’s not in the description box.
History Calling I know this story is off the subject of your video but do you give any credence to the story at the Swineshead abbey in Lincolnshire about the monk who drew fluid from a toad with a brooch pen and put it in an ale that King John drank and later died from? I heard this story didn't come around until in between 60 to 70 years after John's death in 1216. I'm more familiar with the dysentery he was sick with that ended his life but what do you think?
I heard a surfeit of eels was the cause of the greedy king's death. No person of note died suddenly in those days (and beyond) without rumors starting that he or she had been poisoned. Dysentery seems much more likely than frog venom.
Henry’s baby portrait shows an astonishing resemblance to the most famous and often seen portrait of him as a middle aged obese king. So much so I wonder if the baby portrait was painted at a later time, using the adult portrait as a model.
How accurate can it have been?
The question regarding if Catherine of Aragon likely consummated her marriage to Arthur - likely. They were 15 and anyone at that age can attest that hormones rage during that time. There would have been no impediments to them sleeping together since they had been legally (and sanctioned by the church) as married and they lived together for months. It is argued that it was only a diplomatic arrangement and so it is likely that they weren't rushing to sleep together, but there are several accounts that palace staff were aware they had been sleeping together. Though it is likely that they never even spent much time together once married, as there is evidence that their marital encounters weren't very successful, I doubt they didn't try.
"Ahhhhh Henry, what a fine prince you are my boy, a fine fine lad you are." the devil in him: smirking with delight.
I love your videos. And your voice
Plz can you do a video of Pocahontas
I'll certainly add it to the list. :-)
@@HistoryCalling Yes! Please add Pocahontas to your list. I have studied her story but would absolutely love to hear what you would add!
I admit my own opinions owe a lot, even today, to the fiction I read as a young adult, but I’ve always felt sorry for Catherine. I mentioned in a comment on another vid that Henry obviously had a problem with impulse control, and really he could have had ADD. He also, imo, was like a toddler, “I want it, want it, want it,” throw tantrums etc until he got whatever or whoever it was, then “Nope, don’t want it (her) any more, get rid of her.”
He wanted Catherine desperately because she had been Arthur’s, and he thought he was more deserving of everything more so than Arthur.
It seems they were a loving couple for quite a few years. But Catherine’s appearance was suffering from age and her miscarriages and she was, to his perception, endlessly and needlessly religious. Frequent fast days also meant many days marital sex wasn’t allowed, too, and Catherine spent increasing time fasting and praying as she became more desperate for a son. Her ageing appearance combined with his being bored by her, and looking for distraction….and along came Anne.
I would LOVE to know how accurate the portraits are of these famous people. Especially when they look like completely different people from artist to artist, and throughout the years. It drives me crazy! They were supposed to be the best artists at the time, but I don't feel they're good portraits. Sorry for rambling.
Its documented that Oliver Cromwell destroyed 80% of ancient British artifacts made before him. He hired many artists, to re-do paintings to his own standards and liking. Which is probably why there are so many discrepancies, in so many paintings.
@@ebonynaomi1085 i didn't know that! Thank you. I guess that's why so many of them look similar?
How did his younger sister and brother die?
The thumbnail is a painting of Henry's older brother Arthur, not Henry.
Denver Art Museum lists it as Henry, c. 1509. Perhaps it was initially been identified as Arthur?
Thanks!
A perfect prince? No. He was already displaying hints of his dark side, and in spite of his charm, it was there. As he matured, he just went downhill.
Suggestion: catherine the medici
I think he was spoiled ( probably by his gran Margaret Beaufort). He was never expected to be King so he was probably given lots of freedom.
He was was destined for the church before the death of his brother, but excelled in vigorous sport and games. After Arthur died, Henry VII forced him to lead a very circumscribed life without any avoidable risk, lest he too die. So between Arthur's death and his father's he was allowed very little freedom, a situation he chafed under.
From what I've read about the sons of William the Conqueror, Henry I being the most famous, I'd say that young Henry VIII was following right in the mold of previous monarchs. By our standards, none were very good; but, by the standards of their time they were quite normal.
Henry was also a talented musician and composer. He wrote “Greensleeves”, also known as the theme song for the TV show “Lassie”.
I might include that in next week's video if I can fit it in. Some people think he wrote it and others disagree, but it's a great story either way, possibly worthy of its own video at some point :-)
It predates Henry VIII’s reign and can be traced to Italy.
@@HistoryCalling Less disputed is the song ‘Past Time with Good Company’. There are many good versions on YT including those with the song being played by ensembles containing various authentic instruments of the age.
Greensleeves was the song in Lassie?
I thought I saw them all as a child, but none had Greensleeves as the title song.
It was a sad song and was whistled, it made me cry so much every time that my Mother bought me a Steiff Collie, since she thought I cried because the show was over. But I still have it in my ears, and it was not Greensleeves. And the other Lassie shows had other songs, too.
I had no idea ! Wow
Henry didn't want a repeat of the wars of the roses or the anarchy during the time of king stephen and his cousin the true queen back then the empress matilda. So because of this he needed a male heir. A woman as far as he was concerned could not fight with sword in hand on the field of battle. I mean if England was like Spain that already had a female monarch in its own right meaning Isabel Of Castile than maybe he would have been alright with his daughter mary succeeding him. But at the same time if mary still had the same problems having children like she did when she married philip ii, than the throne would have passed to the grey family or to the stuarts which happened anyway with the union of the crowns in 1603 with his great- great nephew James I of england/ VI Of Scotland
Lmao Henry’s sisters had some guts. Sound like impressive ladies
Excellent documentary. Is that an Irish accent I hear? Pronouncing TOWER by saying TAR? Wonderful narration. 👏 👏 👏. A real pleasure.
Yup, Northern Irish. The word tower really seems to throw everyone. I get so many comments on it (though sadly not all as nice as yours - some people attempt to 'correct' my pronunciation so that I sound American) :-)
@@HistoryCalling Haha! You have a bright future narrating documentaries.
I am Canadian but have always loved the colorful history of the Tudors. I am sure Canadian history would be interesting but only Pierre Berton has ever delved into it. And England's history is much older.
I would happily do some Canadian history too at some point. I'm sure your beautiful country has a lot to offer in that respect.
Its crazy to me that henry VIII was so obsessed with having a son. We know now its the males sperm that determines the sex of of a child. Back then they thought it was up to the women or God weather it would be a boy or a girl. I just wonder what would have happened if they knew bk then what we know now about sperm.
Happy heavenly Henry was really good 😊❤ a great king 👑 Henry.
Awesome thanks for good luck 🤞 in ☠️💀🦴🖤 understanding don't worry ☺️ are the 👑 Henry was really good 😊 king 👑 prince of defender of the faith, royalty family 💞 Love 😘❤️. awesome 😎 invasion ❤️😘 really nice to hear.
I've just started reading this video, was in garden but it's so hot out there I've had to come in, anyway I think it's sad katherine had no sons it might have made a difference to Henry, but I still think he would have been cruel your personality doesn't change, but that fall he had when he was unconscious for two hours would have made a difference, don't you think? but Katherine would have been good for Henry.
Henry VII showed he had a heart of steel. He did, understandably, grow miserly and overprotective. I do think that Henry VIII might not have done so much damage if he hadn't had the fortune his father had built. In my view, Henry VII ultimately did his son a disservice in his greed and over protectiveness
Storytime: Hearing that King Henry VIII and Queen Catherine of Aragon were married on June 11th, my first thought went to this. "Well, that explains my first marriage. We were married on June 11th and he cheated on me with another woman too. Course they didn't get married, but it's still hilarious"
What a wonderful way to see a bad marriage. I wish I had the same thought!
Elizabeth was only 2 years old when Anne was beheaded. The girl barely knew the woman. Royal children were not raised at court for their health.
People are not born bad. But given enough power to do and have whatever is desired, people become cruel and insensitive to others. Henry was born in a time when killing people was a way to achieve power, and power was everything.
Such a lovely N.I accent. You could do asmr!
Thank you so much. I may tell my family and friends that the next time they say I'm being too loud! :-)
When was young he was rock star
A very complicated, involved period of English history.
Absolutely. The Wars of the Roses are a bit of a nightmare to unpick. Everyone's related to everyone else and usually several times over.
Shouldn't this be named 'Part 3'?
It's the third in the Tudor monarchs series, but the first on Henry VIII. I thought it was better to number them like that as I thought it would look odd, especially to people not familiar with the channel and the series, if (for example) Edward VI's video is listed as 'part 6' even though he only lived to 15 and will probably only need one video to cover his life.
I always thought that it is perhaps life’s great karma that Henry’s obsession for a male heir was never as successful as he had thought in establishing a Tudor dynasty and that in the end, it is the bloodline of his two sisters Mary and Margaret that sits on the throne today given that Queen Elizabeth II from both maternal and paternal sides descends from Henry’s two sisters. Also hilarious that Henry’s close friend Charles Brandon through his marriage to Mary would also make him a maternal line direct ancestor of the current Queen. It seems all the people who weren’t chopping off people’s heads to desperately gain power and dynasty succeeded where Henry failed.
Elizabeth i is overrated.
Monster in the making. The clue was in slaughtering his father's financial advisors when he took the throne. Those men were presumably only following what his father had demanded of them. I also didn't much like the idea of Katherine even considering sending to Henry in France the presumably rotting corpse of the poor slaughtered King of Scotland either. She doesn't sound as though she was much better than Henry. Perhaps therefore, less deserving of sympathy and more ruthless than the sentimental opinion of her devotion to Henry suggests.
I watched a video with David Starkey and he believes that Empson and Dudley were being blamed by Lady Margaret Beaufort just before the king's death for his financial tyranny, it is on YT and very interesting so maybe Mags pushed her young grandson to it to make his dad look innocent? Food for thought anyway.
Katherine was her mother's daughter--another warrior queen. Her parents Isabella and Ferdinand were second cousins from lines that had already intermarried abundantly, and her maternal grandmother and her sister suffered from mental imbalance, so there may have been something unfortunate passed down to Katherine herself. No one who stubbornly endured the treatment Henry dealt out to her could have been weak, and her adherence to her faith may have contained an aspect of the rigid and obsessive.
How could Henry's parents have had such a loving marriage when Henry the 7th had so many of his wives relatives beheaded ?
Henry lived & died as a spoilt evil wicked cruel child! The Tudors a massive stain on the royals... no change there then!
Could not agree more!
@@winterweib The only Tudor I like is Henry 7th.
As I said before I’ll say again, the tv show (that I really like my guilty pleasure) the tudors really really didn’t care about history regarding Henry’s sister, according to them it was the king of Portugal she married then killed with a pillow only thing they got right was marrying Charles Brandon without permission
Didn't Warbeck only agree to be executed as a commoner in exchange for his children's well being?
There’s no known record of him ever having children. That’s from historical fiction.
Catherine had all the cards , she could have negotiated for anything she wanted divorced him and lived happy until she died Anne would have still had her fate ….. I know she loved him and could not see herself losing him I know I know but in hindsight…..
No he wanted her to enter a convent after the annulment which not only humiliated her but destroyed her life and that of her rightful heir to the throne Mary
@@angelabender8132 I’m pretty sure the convent was Wosleys and the the other cardinals idea is was not Henry’s , but if she would have agreed to it he would take it , he just wanted out of the marriage to get a heir by someone else, just like Anne of Cleaves gave him what he wanted so he treated her very well , had cleaves done otherwise she would have had a different outcome. Mary was not going to go directly to the throne if a boy would have been available, but in the end he did put her back in the line to inherit the throne , he would have done so had Catherine agreed to divorce him anyway as the people would have fought for her just like they did.
@@mlboone3028 he did so because Catherine Parr told him to.
She refused to make a nonsense of her life and the tenets of the church by agreeing to divorce him. And she was fighting to maintain and protect the status of her daughter. She would not have lived happily if she had had to enter a convent and know that Mary had been made illegitimate. There are ways in which her struggle has always seemed a little crazy to me, but I also can understand her rejection of a result that made a lie of her whole life. AND she was not a princess of Spain and the daughter of Isabella of Castile for nothing.
Am I being insane? I swore there was also another girl named Katherine, she may of only lived a few days but surely?
That picture of Arthur
By all accounts Henry became a monster after Anne Boleyn. Anne was extremely ruthless and encouraged Henry to get rid of Katherine, and indeed anyone else who stood in the way of her becoming queen. What she did not realize was that she was going to find herself in the same position as Katherine and Henry could rid himself of Anne much more easily as Anne was no princess of Spain. Plus the injury when jousting ruined his health and caused him much pain.
Henry had already been in talks to divorce Katherine before he even began pursuing Anne. While there’s no way to know for certain how she was as a person, Henry was selfish and a tyrant king after Anne’s execution so it’s entirely unfair to say she’s the reason for his cruelty. I do think chronic pain could’ve impacted him but it was Henry’s obsession with having a son that led to his most drastic decisions and his own narcissism that made him unable to accept any pushback from anyone so he reacted with violence toward anyone who questioned him. And again nearly all we know about Anne is based on lies, rumors and gossip from the powerful Spanish family of Katherine of Aragon who obviously would’ve hated her. There’s no real evidence Anne was this evil and ruthless woman, plus Henry was incredibly sexist there’s no way he would’ve let himself be led by a woman.
Men think for themselves; ascribing his tyranny to Anne and ONLY Anne would indicate an utterly spineless man, which we can surely attest Henry was not. Blame the cruel men of history for their own actions.
I know you’re never supposed to say that a small child isn’t cute etc however Henry VIII certainly wasn’t an attractive child……😂😂😂
Have you heard of the theory that Henry viii was kell positive?
Many of the royal children died because of that or because of the RH negative factor.
Tudor history in short: All Tudors desperately struggled to produce heirs, except one.
Yes, one can even argue Elizabeth struggled _not_ to produce one, LOL
🌹🌹
Henry VIII was a boss from birth to death.
Interesting information but delivered so fast i cant keep up. Stopped listening.
That’s a weird thing to admit. You can always play the video at half speed if you struggle to keep up with normal talking speed
Imagine being Henry the 8th's brother in law?
Handsome??? Not in any of the portraits I've seen.
He was always bad. A narcissist doesn't suddenly develop in his 40s. A spoilt, indulged child, maybe? Think about what he did to the remaining Plantagenets upon his succession to the throne? He was cruel from the get-go.
You talk really fast! Perhaps you could slow down a little bit?
And it’s amazing that the British still persist with this ridiculousness.
I blame the women.
LoL, maybe so, if they were the wrong RH factor!