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HK4: Heckler & Koch's Multi-Caliber Pocket Pistol
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2019
- The H&K Model 4 was named for the fact that it was offered in four different calibers - .22LR, .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .380 ACP. The gun came with a complete set of spare barrels and magazines to allow conversion between all of them, and interesting feature not offered by any other pistols like it at the time. The design was by Alex Seidel, one of the founding engineers of H&K. He had familiarity with the Mauser HSc from his time working at Mauser, and it was the rough basis fo the HK4.
The changes between centerfire calibers required nothing more than swapping barrels (and recoil springs, which were pinned to the barrels) and magazines. Differing spring strength for each caliber were enough to make the gun both safe and reliable in the different chamberings. The convert too .22LR rimfire, it was also necessary to unscrew the removable breech face and flip it around. The breech face had two firing pin holes (one centerfire and one rimfire), and the firing pin could pivot enough house either one. When the breech face was removed, the firing pin could be positioned for whichever setting was desired.
The HK4 was interesting and reasonably successful, but never able to really compete with guns like the Walther PP and PPK. During a 16-year production run from 1968 until 1984 a total of 38,200 were made, including 12,400 for the German customs police.
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Back in the 1980's I had a penpal who was a Bundesgrenshutz (border police) in Munich. Even as a police officer, he had to abide by laws restricting the number of firearms a person could generally own. That's why the HK4 was popular. You had the ability to shoot inexpensive .22LR in the same gun you could shoot centerfire. Most often this would be .32.
Uwe Weber, I hope you see this post and finds you well.
I hope you have found a way to make contact with him!
I was offered one of these in Venezuela in the late ‘80s. Multical option was a fantastic thing to have in a country where supply of any one cal was spotty.
That's the point I could see or post apocalyptic but having and 22 9 45
Did you take it?
@@Cacowninja asking the right questions
And we had to get a license for each calibre. I had one in Venezuela too
I have one of these in all four calibers, plus an extra .22 barrel with a threaded extension. I also have five magazines in each caliber, several extra replacement buffers, both of the brown and black grips and all of the different versions of tools and cleaning accessories. It took me almost two years to find everything. Extra 6.35mm (.25 ACP) magazines are especially scarce...I found two in Alaska (still wondering why the hell anyone in Alaska would want a .25) and two in Poland. This is probably my third favorite HK in my collection, after my MP5s and P7.
Love me some multi-caliber firearms, just marvels of engineering and modularity
its awesome but, usually too expensive. sometimes for less or most of the time for not much more money you can get another firearm in whatever caliber you wanted... and a gun that can be 22 or 380 is nowhere as good as a 22 and a 380
@@JohnDoe-eh4vd KISS: keep it simple, stupid. Nowhere is this mantra more necessary and more ignored than military procurement.
I agree. I've got an EAA Witness (large frame steel) that, with a couple minutes of parts swapping, can shoot .45, 10 mm, .40, .38 Super, and 9 mm (and the 9 mm can, in theory, shoot 9x18 Ultra and .380, though they might not cycle reliably). A spare barrel and chamber reamer would add .357 Sig to that list (.38 Super barrel rechambered, 10 mm slide and mags). I'd love to get a Keltec P32 and a .380 conversion for it, then ream a spare barrel for .32 NAA. Oh, I've also got a .22 LR conversion for my Witness, but it's picky on ammunition -- needs the hotter stuff with no wax.
Tokarov will convert to 9mm with just a barrel change. The 9MM is a way milder cartridge but it would cycle in mine.
Ah yes, modularity, the word that will give US military brass an orgasm.
I purchased mine as a promotion gift to myself when I made SSgt way back in the 1980s. Love this little pistol.
An SS Sgt that's impressive !
Gotta give props to the person who came up with this concept. This is indeed a true forgotten weapon
sarath431 same person designed the Mauser HSC
@@p99guy - oh. This I don't know until now
@@p99guyand that person is Alex Seidel, one of the three co-founders of H&K.
I've owned one of these guns, read about them and have recently handled a second HK4. If I may add some notes from my experience:
1) The .380 had a tendency to crack the frames, usually at the trigger pivot pin. A steady diet is not advised.
2) I don't know how, but it *is* possible to assemble the gun with the rimfire breech face and centerfire barrel. It is quite difficult to disassemble once done.
3) I believe the safety needs to be engaged to disassemble the gun.
4) Some guns had a polymer buffer and a buffer plate. The plate is tiny and expensive to replace. Do NOT lose it!
didnt Ian address these issues, the buffer, the disassembly and the issue with the breechface.
@@charlesadams1721 theoretically, you shouldn't be able to install a center fire barrel with the rimfire breech face and assemble the gun, but I handled and fixed one that some how managed to be assembled this way. It was a pain in the ass to disassemble. Also, he missed the small detail of the safety needing to be engaged.
I found parts for the HK4 at Numerich about 3 years ago, they had internals I needed and buffers too. I've also heard of some owners making homemade buffers from a piece of nylon. I also bought a couple of replacement .380 mags, but they didn't fit my pistol. They were about .005" wider than the original and the fit in the mag well is tight enough that an extra .005" wont go. I returned them for refund.
@@onemoremisfit back when I had mine, I bought some buffers from them but they refused to stay put in the gun. I found someone on HKPro forum offering some which worked very well.
My father and I took ours out to the range, he got a couple shots with it, and on his last shot, before I got to try it out, the buffer plate broke. This took what felt like 3 months before we went back out to the range and got to shoot it again.
How do you get 1 pistol to work in 4 calibers? Kraut space magic, that’s how.
Deutsche Wertarbeit, schweinehunde! *Laughs loudly in German*
@@sebastianmontoya5158 Haben Sie Gehört Das Deutsches Band?
My question is just how reliable that pistol was with different calibers. Too bad a field test of all 4 calibers was not possible, especially in .25 ACP.
@@FutBoy281 well, that doesnt make any sense, seems like the translator messed up
Ahead of its time. Lousy marketing by H&K and H&R.
Ah yes, a gun that might actually work if you have a hobo-sack of ammo.
I was expecting that intro honestly...
Maybe a gun for the zombie Apocalypse...
Basically perfect for dayz early game
And you might actually find ammo left over because nobody really owns or shoots .25 or .32 anymore, but there is a lot of it just floating around out there.
jenavevesnowolf13 I own .32 =(
I bought this set back in 1985 from Navy Arms. It works very well in all four calibers.
Gun forum: "If you could only have *1* gun, what would it be?"
*H&K has entered the chat*
I´d imagne that this was their actual thinking. Since in Germany one can only on a restricted number of handguns. But with unlimited caliber change systems.
@@feuerfrei7070 From a modern point of view, they essentially just developed a single weapon system that's compatible with several different calibers. Much like the modern Glocks and Sig p320s which all have different barrels and magazines which are interchangeable with each other.
But back then, that was a very unique thing to accomplish. What I like most about this HK4 is that it is available in 25 ACP and .32. Don't see modern full size guns in those calibers.
@@feuerfrei7070 but the barrel is the regulated part
so that would be four guns for us germans
@SQunX Fisher True im Germany the licence is on the pressure bearing components (aka the barrel) but once you have a licence for a gun you can buy spare barrels for it without applying for new licence. And that includes barrels with a smaller calibre than original gun / licence.
@@squnxfisher9831 Einfach das Größte Rohr einbauen und "Anpassungen" (aka. kleinere Rohre zum einsetzen) einzeln verkaufen.
I purchased a 4 caliber set when I was deployed overseas. It then became my Aircrew survival vest gun. It has literally been around the world with me twice. It is a fun little gun and fits the hand quite well. I carried it rather than a .45 or 9mm simply because it would make it easier to find some kind of ammo to fit it anywhere in the world.
This was my ultimate "never meet your heroes" gun. Lusted for years after one, finally found one at a show. Terrible reliability, unobtainable parts. Couldn't justify keeping it just to fondle, heartbreaker.
mine was an early H&R import; I could almost get through a magazine before having to take it apart and bend the trigger bar back into shape.
In some ways, something like that is still very popular in Germany.
If, for example, you have a green gun ownership permit (as it is usually issued to anyone with a valid hunting license), you can own two handguns, no questions asked. If you want more than two, you have to convince the issuing authority (depending on your state that's either the county, rural district administration, city, or police) to issue you another stamp.
However, conversion kits in equivalent, weaker or smaller calibers are permitted, again, no questions asked.
So you get yourself a .40 S&W pistol, a .357 Sig conversion kit, a 9 mm Luger conversion kit, a .22 conversion kit, and still have one spot left over for a nice Revolver.
I have not checked recently if there are any handguns on the market with which you could ride it all the way to the bottom from 10mm Auto (10, 40, 357, 9, 22), but it wouldn't surprise me if there were Glock conversion kits to do just that.
Plus, 10 mm will stop angy charging wild boar dead in their tracks, so maybe it's something to consider. 🐗
I've never described a firearm of any sort as "cute"... Until now. The HK4 is absolutely adorable.
indeed
Waldemar it’s the Mazda Miata of firearms.
Makarov copy
@@tedarcher9120 Technically, the Makarov was heavily inspired by the German Walther PP.
@@Jeremiah-mj9kw so it's.... HK Walther?
Good guy Ian fixing the gun for its next owner.
Maybe it was left effectively deactivated intentionally? Probably just mis-assembled though.
I had to go back to where he said that to see the difference.
I remember this from the ads back in the day. Novel concept, but I bought a Walther PPK instead, post war pre-1968 stamped Made in West Germany.
Where's Karl firing some rounds into the backdrop while screaming and running away?
last time i was this early, the G11 was still in development.
I bought one of these in the late 70s. When I went to the gun shop to pick it up, they had sold my gun to someone else. I wound up with a Mauser HSc American Eagle. Still have it.
Mine was equipped with .380 and .22LR bbls.
I had one of these in 1974 in Germany. Dm 399,- Never had a single malfunction in any calibre in 5 years. You could use the 6.35mm and 22LR magazines for either calibre too. Not recommended, but it worked. It did de-cock. You could chamber a round, apply safety and then pull the trigger and the hammer would drop onto a strike-blocker safely. You could then carry it with safety off, round in chamber and rely on the double action trigger to prevent negligent discharge. It was terrifically light, with no protuberances and was an ideal carry inside the trouser waistband, and with minimal lubrication requirements, you never got your trousers oily.
It was a lovely angle for sense-of-direction shooting and it was a natural eye-line fit for the sights right-handed. I trained mostly with single-handed outstretched arm "sense-of-direction" shooting. I bought it for the purpose Ian describes - to use cheap .22 to train and to carry 7.65mm (which was the issued calibre) but I could also scavenge and reload 9mmK cases found at the training ranges. It was an ideal pistol to use to carry "ready-to-fire" because the double action trigger reduced the likelihood that you would shoot yourself in the thigh when trying to draw it from a trouser-band holster quickly.
Sold it in 1979 to a colleague for Dm 499,- so not only had 5 years good use of it, but made a small profit too! What's not to like about it?
Sounds like you were West German Zollamt, Bundesgrenzschutz, or Polizei? I was stationed in Germany 1983-90, in Günzburg and Pirmasens. Believe a Polizei officer I met in Günzburg-Leipheim a.D. area was armed with the HK4 in 7,65mm, and he was complimentary of the reliable, deep penetration of the round. (I presume ammo was Geco blue box) He also had a MP-5 mounted inside the driver's door of his patrol car (BMW, I think). Many wonderful memories of those years!
This is my dream pistol, the modularity and organization is just too sweet.
Some things to know before you go down this rabbit hole. 1.: The buffer is very, very important. If it has hardened up over the years, replace it with a new aftermarket one. Otherwise, you may crack your frame firing 9 K (.380 ACP). 2.: The .22LR conversion also needs the .22LR extractor to work correctly. This is contained in the red plastic tool that came with the conversion kits, but usually aren't with them anymore when you buy them. My .22 LR kit had a conspicuously empty cutout inside the cardboard box where this tool once lived. 3.: The more interesting versions, in my opinion, are the police contract ones, which run approximately in the 40,000 - 52,000'ish serial number range. 4.: Be patient when it comes to picking up the other calibers you need. I've seen people on GunBroker asking over $600 for the .22LR conversion (without the tool and extractor), which is ridiculous. 6,35 Browning (.25 ACP) seems to be the unicorn caliber for these...I don't see that one come up very much.
I happen to own one of these, full kit. It is one of "the best" training pistols, especially for women, with smaller hands, and complete lack of experience. We used the ability to start with very small rounds, training the users to do proper handling, safety use, reloading, assembly, and similar such user knowledge. After familiarity for small rounds, and getting used to the blast, noise, and gaining lack of fear to the recoil, they were move to larger calibres. As a result, all our trainees could shoot accurately and fast, without getting the "fright of the gun", as opposed to where they start with some huge 1911 or sharp recoil short 40, or similar crappy hard to rack and handle monster pistols. Some of the women came with a gun given to them by their husband or boyfriend, and were completely unable to handle it. Hands to small, hands to weak to rack it, and often with triple safeties which were impossible to understand, for them. The HK4s were ideal tool to get them into actual shooting. One warning, we bought some of the "extended magazines" with more rounds, but we found that these often do NOT work. Original magazines are very hard to get. Its an ideal pocket pistol, but the sights may need to be rounded off, to avoid catching...
The biggest reason multi caliber guns never sell that well is the fact they cost so much more than a single caliber gun.
In the 1970's and 1980's this was considered to be and interesting novelty, and as Ian mentioned, somewhat derivative of the Mauser HSC, and at a somewhat reasonable price. I of course, am speaking of the markets where I was familiar, the Mid-Atlantic and the Southern US. (Shotgun News prices notwithstanding).
Generally It was considered to have some significant problems, at least seen in the light of pistol doctrine of the day: one it had the magazine disconnector, secondly, the magazine heel release (all real pistoleros know that John Browning's decision to go with a trigger-guard magazine release was right and proper) and the calibers that the pistol "pack" came in.
It must be remembered that prior to today's bullet technologies, anything less than a .357 Magnum was not considered to be a reliable 'man-stopper.' In fact, there were many law enforcement organizations who would not consider the .380 to be an acceptable defensive pistol round, except in the case of deep undercover. Of course, outside the US, the .380 or even the .32 Auto was considered to be "acceptable." And this was before the real availability of PCP and similar street drugs.
Today, with current bullet technology, things might be different.
One of the advantages to this gun and other conversion is that some locations in Europe limit you to a number of guns on your firearms license. By having one of these its 4 guns in one but your license is only charge for one. Same concept today with the Blaser 93 or the older SIG SAUR 200 rifle with interchangeable barrels/bolt heads.
also ammo availability !
I had watched this video the day it came out. Today I ran across one at my local gun shop on consignment. So I bought it. Mine came in .380 with a .22 conversion and two spare .22 magazines. It's very cool, and seems beautifully finished as I would expect from H&K. I had wanted one back in the 1970s when I was in the Army, but they were too expensive for a PFC. So now I have one just over 40 years later. It seems to be unfired, and in the box. I'll remedy that shortly.
Check the buffer plate!
This need to be back in production….
Damn beautiful firearm, typical of German work.
juan manuel marchioli itd be 4500$ today lol
I would buy a modernized version with the mag release near the trigger guard and the mag safety removed. It looks like a cool little pistol for sure.
GOTTA keep that slick old school OG HK styling in a modernisation, it doesn't NEED to look modern, they got it right the first time.
German design typically doesn't receive near the recognition that German engineering does, and in fact if anything their design is often criticized for basically being run by heavy handed engineering minds(re: simplistic design over top of such incredible engineering that it's a fragile unreliable POS). But these damn things almost make you want to open carry...
@@cosmolinefiend9853 and how much cost a full Gucci Glock???
Has RIA taken you hostage? Cough once for yes, twice for no.
It's not "taking him hostage", if he likes it!
Classic Stockholm Syndrome
Lol...i have often wondered that....
Better RIA than IRA.
Jj that was good
With the exception of the .22 rim fire conversion, the entire process appears simple and efficient. Thanks for posting.
I bought one of these at a gun show early 90s, I was 18 and it had been my dream gun for years that I drooled over the few gun magazines and buyer's guides I could find with articles about it. It was a beautiful piece of engineering. It also worked about 1/3 of the time and was incredibly involved to switch between calibers. It was my first gun heartbreak.
Such a simple and elegant design, to change caliber
The knowledge and history this channel gives is absolutely amazing! I would like to know where you studied or if it is just a passion that brought you to this point! Great videos, and thanks.
The multiple caliber choices is one of the reasons i purchased my Kimber . I got it in .45 acp and .22 lr for plinking . Love it ! "Deeds not words "
HK4 full set cib.. no more word. thanks again for this "unboxing"
This intrigued me. Great video as always!
Fascinating, Thanks for this Ian.
Thank you Ian .
Absolutely beautiful lines on that pistol. Loved the look of the classic German sidearms
Just about to go to bed, FW video notification, sleep can wait! Its missing one important accessory - the hobo sack to hold the random ammo!
You and me both brother
Love your videos!! Best firearm channel out there!
YES!!! I've been waiting for this video for a while now!
The Mauser HSc was Alex Seidel's first design while working for Mauser back in the 1930's so he wasn't just "familiar" with the gun, from which he draws much inspiration to design the HK4 later on. IMO the HK4 is perhaps the finest small frame blowback pistol ever designed and the one with the cleverest features.
Very clever, and gorgeously made!
This is the gun Doug Demuro would own. So many quirks and features!
especially if it were Japanese
Have you ever seen a Dan Wesson Pistol Pack?
Doug, the type of guy to...oh wait wrong channel.
As far as operation and disassembly, its a Mauser HSc... for good reason! Thanks Ian, from Iain.
Love anything by H&K
A 3D puzzle that spits hot lead ... great that you show such very special items!
Another one I regret selling ! :-(
Stop selling the wrong pistols!
@Agent Smith It was 20 yrs ago ,I don't recall, sorry.
@Agent Smith for his own sanity his brain has scrubbed that number from memory.
I know what you mean. I wanted one of these back in the day. I heard they didn't shoot all that well. It's versitility was good if you traveled were ammo supplies were iffy. Like S&W making relover that would shoot 38, 357, 9mm and 380. (it didn't work)
I do regret selling a pistol I bought when I was in high school (a fairly long time ago) It was a nickle PPK in 32 ACP with Nazi proof marks ( damaged grips no magazine). I just didn't like the 32, I would not have sold it if it was 380.
Consumer: You can’t shoot any cartridge you want out of a pistol.
HK: Hold my Beer.
Germans never say hold my beer!
We empty it fast as possible, maybe burp and bring it on.
"lieber Frau und Kind erschießen, als einen Tropfen alk(ohol) vergießen"
I have a Sig-Saure P-250 in .40/.357 Sig. I can change between calibers with just a barrel swap in just seconds. To go to 9mm I change the barrel and mag. Works great.
Very Cool, I remember seeing one at a gun shop, back in the day, I so wanted it with the conversation kit, it was way out of my price range as a college student
A clever little piece. Being able to train with .22LR then convert to a heavier calibre for carrying would be a convenience.
Engineering? Art? Beauty? All in one little package...hk4
Great little pistol. The frame is an alloy makeup like some sort of magnesium. Found out when in front of the mag well cracked down towards the trigger guard. Factory repaired or made another frame for me before leaving Germany. Mentioned the cracking in case somebody wants to avoid dry snapping the slide forward. Noticed the break when firing.
Thank you Gun Jesus, very cool
Fascinating from an engineering standpoint alone.
I'm usually not a big fan of handguns but I fricking love this one.
New manufacturers take note, a modern pistol capable of .32/.380/9×19 with barrel options is an ideal buy for a LOT of people.
I don't see much reason for that except for places with restrictions on the number of guns someone can own.
Both .32 acp and .380 are less common in all countries where 9 mm is legal. .32 is slowly dying since .380 took it's place of pocket gun caliber.
For countries with restrictions on gun ownership? Yeah. For ammo availability? No.
I would love to own this gun. Awesome video Ian.
Cool pistol! Thanks man!
That's a stunningly clever weapon. I wish it was still in production, I'd buy one.
This is just a crazy coincidence. Just this evening I had a chat at the range with someone saying that he was once offered a HK pistol with a conversion kit for 4 different calibres, but didn't buy it. And I thought: What?! Four different calibres?! Never heard of such a thing!
Now returning home from the range and watching Ian's latest video my jaw dropped. Next week I'll have to tell the guy that he missed some opportunity for a cool collectible.
I remember when these first came out, and every gun mag had a review. I think a few had some no-feeds with the 22 but that wasn't exactly uncommon in small pistols back then. Everyone liked it but kind of wondered "Why?" The recoil buffers can be a problem but otherwise if you see a good deal on one get it while you can.
i love these old hk's
In some European country’s like Germany and the Netherlands they have a limit on the number of firearms you can own (max 5 in the Netherlands). In these country’s conversion kits are popular because they don’t count as a firearm.
Mauser HSC: Who the hell are you?
HK4: I'm you, but better
I kinda like this gun. It looks cool and can do whatever it wants.
Early Kraut Space Magic.
I can relate to the desire for a pistol with caliber conversion kits. When 22LR was cheap, it was a great way to practice. Same grip, trigger and weight as my fullsize .45 ACP, just no recoil. Much easier to correct "bad habits" with cheaper ammo and lots of practice! Great for practicing misfeed/misfire drills (.22 LR rarely fed an entire magazine).
What a nice little pistol. Love to find one some day!
Very Cool H&K pistol Ian !!!!!!!!!!
Theres no feeling like the one you get when Ian does another cool semi auto handgun video.
Very cool gun. I used to reproduce buffers for them.
Actually an awesome piece. If there was something modern and common today I’d definitely pick one up.
9mm, .380, 22lr would be a perfect combo
I believe EAA does.
Very clever piece of engineering.
Thanks for the vid.
Very cool little pistol 👍
I have had two, the Manurhin 380 which was amazing. Then I acquired the 22lr, 380 package of the HR import. Trigger was horrible. Great video thanks
Finally got it, awesome.
Beautiful example as well,looks brand new actually.
That is one beautiful gun
Now that would be nice to have as a set.
These multi caliper guns will be priceless in the apocalypse
classy piece
I've recently binged all the Anvil episodes (again). I'm itching to clean up that breach face screw slot... Along with every other screw I see...Thank Mark when you see him 😉
Interesting, cool and good looking way to go hk
Verty handsome little pistol👌🏾
Favorite arms manufacturer
It’s seldom that you cover a gun that I’ve actually owned. By that I don’t mean that you don’t cover the right guns, just that you cover so many that are unique that many of them I’ve never even heard of. But I had one of those years ago in 9mm Kurz as well as 2 caliber conversion kits. H&K sold individual conversion kits as well and with each one you got the barrel with recoil spring and one magazine. I had the the 7.65mm and .22 LR conversions. I didn’t find the gun to be very reliable though and sold it.
A very 70's looking pistol for sure.
Really pretty little pistol 👍
This would be a particularly good pistol for testing and comparing the performance of various pocket pistol calibers and loadings.
Imagine in a firefight, you realize the firing pin is on the wrong setting and you had to disassemble it to the correct setting. LOL
Love this gun. My dad used to own this while I was a kid.
The 32ACP police trade-ins that were imported in the early 80s came with a plastic handled screwdrivers that had a handle slightly smaller than the barrel opening which held the driver centered, making undoing the breech screw a lot easier. They were stupid cheap even with the 22lr conversion kit. They were early versions with the fluted chambers. Weak 22 ammo wasn't very reliable even with the fluted chamber in the one I shot.
One of my favorite first autos was an hk vp70 z... I love thys channel... just fyi ... my second was an old skool browning hi-power
I own of these, serial 2xxxx, and the later models feature a magazine accessory that make the gun easier to hold and reload. Also, the polymer buffers break super easily.
Cool. One of the few collectors type guns on here I've actually touched before. When I was a kid a friend of my father's had one of these that I got to hold it when I was a kid in the 70s. I didn't get shoot it, but got to hold it. All started because of my blue plastic squirt gun that was molded almost exactly the same as the HK. They got it out to compare it. *:-)*
I think I was 6 or 7. I only remember because of the case with all the barrels and "stuff". Wonder where that one is now.
A lot of different things. As a german i am astonished with the problems native english speakers have with the german ,ch' sound. In Oberndorf/Neckar please visit the Waffen (weapons) museum there. It is in a former building of the Mauser company. You can see weapons of the Royal Wurttembergian Arms Factory ( the forerunner ???) of the Mauser company, products of the Mauser company (weapons, a car !, measurement tools, steel furniture!, bureau machines), weapons of Heckler & Koch and target arms of the Feinwerkbau company. The opposite door of the weapons museum is the door of the Heimatmuseum/ home region museum. Please visit it also! There are blades of seaxes and spathas, spear and arrow points from alemannic graves, drums and pictures from the former town militia and photographs from a world war I air raid done by british airforce. The photographs show the graveyard ceremony for two shotdown british pilots . A german priest and in the background a number of german soldiers with spiked helmets. Those elderly german non frontline soldiers visited the burrial of two enemy soldiers, a sign of old style courtesy. Note for american readers: In Oberndorf an american square dance club exists. Note for british readers: Near Oberndorf the Teck family had a castle, Mary von Teck was the grandmother of current queen Elizabeth Ii.