Super Singles - ft. Kym Bolton of Australian Adventure Vehicles
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Something a bit different this video.
On our quest for ultimate 4x4 ability Immanuella and I head down to the Adelaide 4x4 and camping show to see Kym Bolton of AAV to get his thoughts on what tyre/rim package we should go for.
Thanks again to Kym for taking the time to talk us through the choices and potential pitfalls. We really appreciate the help!
Hey Troy, i agree with most of the interview. There are however flotation tyres for the 19.5 rim which have been overlooked. Founders are a 305 x 70 R 19.5 mud tyre which will maintain your full GVM. They have a 3000 kg load rating enabling you to also maintain the factory axel weights. We have had a set of these on our truck for almost 25000k towing around a 3500kg van with our truck around 6800kg with zero issues. As always mate great info.
JMS down under. If i have it right you can’t use a 305 tyre in 19.5 on a nps before 2016. At least you couldn’t when I looked into it. After 2016 Isuzu had the front brakes upgraded and the passed compliance before 2016 they only just passed with 285s please correct me if I’m wrong as I would love to upgrade. I’ve got 285 toyos which you can no longer get but also wasn’t a huge fan of them.
@@kevinwhalen2255 Hey Mate, as your truck is registered you will need to have the mods engineered specifically for your truck. Can I suggest having a chat with your engineer to see if they are familiar with a brake upgrade or other options available for compliance. Sorry I'm unable to help.
As an engineer who has been kicking around this stuff for a long time, I agree with pretty much everything Kym said during the interview with the exception of his statement that the 17" failures when towing heavy caravans are all due to 'operator error'.
Sellers of 'super singles' are always keen to talk about the load rating of the wheel/tyre combos they market, what they never talk about is the ability of tyres with less sidewall plies to transfer torque without overheating the sidewalls. Increasing tyre pressures with less sidewall plies will help reduce torque 'windup' of the sidewalls but it will never eliminate it to the extent more plies will. Smaller diameter wheels can, by definition, transfer less torque before the bead starts slipping too because there is less bead area due to the smaller circumference. In the case of 37" tyres you are greatly exacerbating this problem because they increase the amount of torque at the bead under load. The light truck platforms these vehicles are based on are all part time 4WD, so that means the torque transfer for heavy towing will primarily be via two wheels and the softer sidewalls and smaller beads heat up far too much in that application.
One fairly well known RUclips travelling couple I have been in touch with went through a couple of sets of 17" sidewalls, of different brands, running at higher pressures etc as recommended by the tyre manufacturers, only to eventually have to give up and go to 19.5s. They all failed, irrespective of pressure, right around the bead - exactly where I would expect them to fail due to sidewall overheating due to the wheel tyre combination not being up to handling the torque being thrown at them. I often hear motherhood statements from sellers to the effect: 'oh, but we have many people towing heavy caravans with 17" super singles with no problems' - details are hard to come by though. Despite Kym's ringing endorsement of the 17" wheels and tyres, he is in the process of complying his own 19.5s - why go to that expense if the 17s can do all the 19.5s can?
If you are using one of these trucks as a single unit then I think the 17" tyres are perfect. If you plan on towing over about 1.5 tons ATM I would strongly recommend the 19.5" wheels and tyres. For your application I think the 17s will be great.
Very informative post. Thanks for sharing.
@@HardstylePete I actually sat down and did the maths at one point, comparing the ability of 35" Toyos on 19.5" rims, vs a couple of brands of 37" tyres on 17" rims, to transfer the torque required. The 17" rims with 37" tyres work about 23% harder at the bead for any given load. That might not seem huge, but given the loads involved it is. Add to this less sidewall plies and higher sidewalls that allow more wind up and flex, and the 17s are much less able to cope with the high torque loadings of heavy towing without overheating near the bead. The 17s are great, in my opinion, but really best suited to single units or very light towing.
I think you're right. If I was going to have a heaver setup or be towing anything at all I would go for the 19.5's for sure. The bigger the safety margin the better. especially when you're out in the middle of nowhere! Thanks for sharing 👌
Totally endorse this assessment. I have been using Toyo M608z 285/70RR19.5 for 10 years, on 3rd set now. Get over 60 thousand ks on NPS300 towing 2.5 ton tandem axle trailer. No tyre problems
@@jigsawjim We've been running the Toyos for years as well, even though we only tow a very light trailer behind our Canter. They last very well and are tough tyres - touch wood we have yet to resort to the spare. Unfortunately Toyo have now pulled out of the truck market in Aus, so that reduces the options for those of us who want to stick with the 285/70 r19.5 tyres.
Well that was pretty good, quite an in depth review of super single wheels and tyres for Australian usage.
His pressure chart also works in kPa, just disregard the decimal point. It is a pretty good indicator of pressure for a given load, speed and terrain.
In April last year I met two NPS 300 trucks with super singles, both carrying a reasonable amount and both towing reasonably heavy caravans. One was running 17" wheels and had the most impressively shredded tyre I've ever seen. The other was running the 19.5" rims and appropriate tyres, it too was running with a heavy caravan and had an impressively shredded tyre.
Both of these were in Ceduna after travelling from the west over the Nullarbor, both were waiting for new tyres to come through. It was quite warm, mid to high 30's both shredded one of their rear tyres. Speed, heat and load.
Contributor, who posted earlier with an extensive reply, nailed it. Bead torque being in excess of liveable values causing the walls to flex and the vehicles being 2WD on the bitumen requiring the rear tyres to push the lot.
I was taught 50 years ago in the military with 6x6 and 4x4 trucks to engage the front axles as soon as one hit the dirt if the drivetrain was part time 4x4 or 6x6. Places far less strain on the vehicle, places far less strain on all of the tyres, and, as a bonus, one can steer more effectively with all axles being driven.
The suggestion for you to have AT tyres on 17" rims for your usage is spot on. We have the same on our NPS, Gladiator AT on 17" and for sand, loose surfaces and even rocky terrain provided you drop the air and speed correctly, you should be amazed at what your truck can quite easily achieve. We are running around 6000kg fully loaded, which is 1000kg under our plated GVM and 1500kg under the design GVM of the truck.
Just as a matter of interest, the speed limit in Victoria for anything over 4500kg is 100 kph, I think most other states are the same.
If one of those couples in Ceduna was K&K, and I suspect it probably was because the rig description and timing fits perfectly, they went through two different sets of 17s from two different brands and no amount of playing with tyre pressures could overcome the problem with the torque loading. They went to 19.5s and Toyos (sadly Toyo are out of the truck tyre market here now) and have had no problems since, thankfully. K&K originally had 19.5s with a lower cost tyre that rode very badly so were encouraged to swap to the 17s - a wheel and tyre size that company was pushing very hard at the time. They have a video up on Patreon about the whole sorry saga - it was on RUclips too but was taken down in return for the company involved offering a good deal on going back to the 19.5s and the new Toyos.
I'm ex 'Bluebell' so am very aware of the ADF approach to trucks off road - nice to know others still remember the lessons of all those years ago! We own an ex ADF Canter with a Jakab Industries electronic repair module on the rear. It's currently running 19.5s with Toyos and parabolics from ATW, but I suspect we'll have to go with Goodyears next time around now Toyo are out. At least with the truck tyres on our little rig we know the tyres will be fine.
@@contributor7219 Neither of the two NPS's were K&K, one was mum, dad and three young kids in a crew cab variant with their caravan on the rear, 19.5" and really the most impressively shredded tyre I've ever seen. I have a picture of their truck and caravan; just checked the wheel size.
The other was a retired couple and thinking about it I cannot now be certain theirs was 17" as their NPS was roughly a 2013/4 model and unless they had recently moved to super singles theirs may also have been 19.5". But I seem to remember noting that both sizes had destroyed a tyre across the Nullarbor in heat and maybe I had better be on the lookout for potential tyre related issues.
Unrelated to these two vehicles in Ceduna, we met up with another almost new NPS crew cab model running with a mild load on the rear homebuilt tray. With mum dad and at least two kids and dogs that I can remember with a quite large caravan on the rear. Fitted with 17" wheels. While they hadn't had any tyre issues, in discussion with the main driver (dad) he had noted that if he pushed the speed up over 90km/h he could seemingly see the tread disappear between pitstops. So super singles do seem to be working at their limit when towing caravans or anything else like them.
Conversely, I met up with another NPS running duals at the rear, towing all sorts of heavy machinery and running around 60% of dirt roads in rural and outback areas with nary a tyre issue at all. Reckons a good spring set he got from somewhere on the NSW coast was the answer, not parabolics, along with a decent drivers seat. His NPS looked like Troy's ex mining NPS straight from Troy's purchase, except it didn't have a halo over the cabin.
Ex Bluebell????
@@allanhugh2044 Ex RAEME. Our field callsign back in the day.
The parabolics can be a mixed bag, especially on a short wheelbase truck. We're running Bilsteins on ours to reduce the pitching, but the ride isn't too bad otherwise. I've heard of others modifying the factory spring packs, but not heard how they perform - so that's interesting to hear.
The duals with truck sidewalls and smaller diameter won't have a problem with torque loadings. 'Super singles' will always work much harder of course. My own opinion is that less bead area x softer and much taller sidewalls x greater torque loading due to the larger diameter = 17" with 37" aren't the best for towing. Those sidewalls are just copping too much of a beating. Based on some quick calculations a while back I worked out there is around 23% less torque loading at the bead on the 19.5" with 35". It doesn't sound like a lot, but on a single axle with, say, an 8ton setup, that's much more than it might appear at first. Add to that the stronger sidewalls of something like the Toyos or Goodyears, and they should survive much better.
One of the two 'super singles' suppliers are trialling some US 37" 19.5s. I'll be interested to see how they go. We've had a fairly spectacular failure of one large US brand here in the market after their tyres were found not to cope with our heat, I'll be watching closely to see if these 37" 19.5s survive.
@@contributor7219 Never heard RAEME called that and our compound was directly opposite a RAEME outfit. Called up in 68, went in in 69 hated going in, but decided to have a ball and thoroughly enjoyed myself; I was in Service Corp as a driver 6x6 F1's and 4x4 Mk IV's both being the wonderful International Acco's, although if you look at them today one wonders what we were on about.
Not entirely sure about tyre failure, but our original tyres were subject to a recall, this was December 2020. Had all six changed over last working day before Christmas that year. They were an American brand, manufactured in Thailand, as were the replacement tyres.
All NPS trucks sold in Australia have Isuzu's medium wheelbase. The N series, as far as I know has three wheelbases, short, medium and long. However there is one variant with a super long wheelbase running around, not sure if is ex Isuzu, they may have had a local chassis and wheelbase stretch, they hold 6m long roofing material on the tray without any overhang and there are quite a few of them around in various trades.
For Troy's benefit and getting back to the subject. Our NPS runs just under 6000kg fully loaded, on trips we regularly shed 460kg to 480kg as we use fuel and water. 280l fuel, 240l water. When fully loaded our rear axle is 120-140kg heavier than the front, once we get to low fuel and low water, the rear axle is approximately 20kg heavier than the front. These are weighbridge checked figures. As a result our truck is really well balanced and as we drop fuel and water the balance gets almost perfect and it is a hoot to drive on dirt stuff. The variable weights are due to weighbridge figures being 20kg plus-minus.
An additional benefit we have is a Centralised Tyre Inflation System (CTIS), whereby we raise or lower our tyres on the run to keep the truck in almost perfect trim for the speed, terrain and load. A side benefit of running a CTIS is that once the tyre pressures one requires for the load, speed and terrain are put in, the system adjusts each axle to the desired pressure, then no matter the temperature, speed or road surface, the CTIS maintains that specified pressure with incremental inflation and deflation cycles of each axle as we traverse low water logged terrain, then climb out into sunshine onto hard surfaced terrain and so on.
@@allanhugh2044 The callsign came from the dark blue beret colour. I spent 10 years with RAEME working pretty much everything but Army Aviation. The 1-2 shift pattern in those old Accos was always good for a laugh.
I built our Canter to run 50/50 with us on board - our fuel and water tanks straddle opposite sides of the chassis between the wheels to minimise balance changes as they empty. Again, it was built with constant weighbridge measurement. We're 'old school' and just run TPMS and a compressor, but it's worked out well so far. We're about 5200kg running just the truck, but run the truck down around 4750kg when towing a small trailer. I imagine CTIS would make make life a lot easier/safer indeed.
Interested to hear about the recall. I'm keeping a close eye on the US 19.5s to see how they go, but suspect I'll go with the Goodyear 305s when the time comes - providing Toyo don't re-enter the market.
Nice talk! For sure wet sticky snow I would want M/T tires but for cold snow the concept is snow sticks to snow so you want a tire that holds snow, maybe not as applicable to these trucks, though.
Great vid Troy. Kim certainly knows what’s he’s talking about. My personal opinion if NOT towing definitely go 17s but if towing heavy go with 19.5s
Loving your videos as it’s giving me motivation to rebuild mine after 10 years
Keep up the great work
Cheers for this video Troy and Kym. This clears up videos I’ve seen people complaining about there truck tyres. 🤙
no it doesnt, it actually creates more questions.
Really good interview - thanks.
Excellent video and great information, thanks
Supper cool. No 4x4 imports here like yours in Canada. Only 2 wheel drives. Pretty sad. But it’s likely going to all stay in my dreams any way! Oh well. I’ll live vicariously through yourself and others in stead! Thanks for the dream, glad your living it!
Great video Troy, with my 2022 NPS I got 17" rims fitted with 37" Radar RT's. I'm very happy with them so far, was told to run 60psi in the front and 65 in the back but have since put 60psi all-round as I only tow a 2.8T boat occasionally to the local boat ramp.
Great video mate helped me a lot 👍🏾👍🏾 would love to chat with you regarding your camper great build btw 👍🏾👍🏾
You can get ahold of us @youmesuzie on instagram or look up Troy Cleary on Facebook if you want to hear more about it 👍
Well done Troy that was a excellent interview and very helpful information about tyres and pressures, I have recently picked up my new Isuzu nps and running Black Bear all terrain 17x37s let’s keep in touch and see how the super singles go cheers mate 👍🍻🇦🇺
Great video. I tow with an Isuzu NPS so chose the 19.5” wheels with Goodride tyres. I’m sure the 37” tyres would give me a softer ride but the Goodrides have been trouble free for over 4 years now.
When towing the lower gearing and better braking with the 35” tyres is also an advantage as our weight would be around 9T all up.
Great video, clears a lot things up about tyre choice on my NPS, cheers.
Troy, thanks for sharing. That is excellent info.
Great information. I wonder if you could put a link in your description to the load calculator
THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT DETAILED VIDEO AS LISTING ABOUT TYES AND WHEELS
AS HAVE THE 2010 MODEL ISUZU 4X4 TRUCK NPS 75
Hi ya that was a good interview on the tyres……. Susie’s looking good
Thanks very informative!
Brilliant video cheers
THANK YOU FOR GREAT VIDEO AS PUT DETAIL ABOUT WHEELS AND TYRES
One thing that should also be mentioned is that the tyre does NOT carry the load, it is the air inside the tyre that carry’s the load the tyre is there to hold the air in
A 110 on the gibb ? good luck with that. Wouldnt the towing factor be more about the weight at the tow hitch rather than the trailer drag? What about the actual tow hitch itself ie : air ride or geny hitches which alleviate the bounce? He didnt speak about that at all.
I have a 37 inch tyre on 19.5 from ATW
What’s difference between AAV’s ss and All Terrain Warriors ss? Which one is better?
19.5 would be my choice for longevity
Why isnt anybody talking about regearing the diffs when they throw 37s on?
I was wondering the same thing but after having them on there for about 6 months, now can say the gearing is fine. 1st is so low I still take off in 2nd with the 37's. Also brings the revs down a bit at 100kmph which is good
It would have been cool to ask about 40’s as well to hear what he had to say on that.
Hello.what kind of wheel on Iveco
THE LARGER THE TYRE THE MORE IT INCREASES UR SPEED, 😂 BIG TYRES LOOK SICK 😂😂 THE 4wd SHOPS ARE GOING TO LOVE IT THIS 🤡