Apologies for the video glitches near the end! This video really didn't want to get exported correctly... (edit) Oh, also, this is the last video on heat pumps, I swear! OK, well the last for a solid while...
Still being in the first 15 seconds, I am semi-hoping for a, “…and to end this series, we’re going to talk about latent heat and the refrigeration cycle. “
Not to forget the entire series of neat media formats ranging from vinel, laserdiscs, cd’s, dvd’s, casette tapes, betamax vs vhs and that weird format I forgot the name that’s a vinel for video.
Giving people enthusiasm and knowledge is terrific, but giving people *actionable* info and a path forward that they can follow is outstanding and can change the world. 👍
Thanks to the resources you present here, I was able to: 1) compare my natural gas and electricity costs directly in kWh to find the breakeven CoP (3). 3) use historical weather data for my location to see that my winter temps are above 17 degrees Fahrenheit ~100% of the time. 2) use the NEEP list to find multiple heat pump models with CoP > 4 at 17 degrees Fahrenheit. Now I know that replacing my natural gas furnace with ductless mini-splits will decrease my heating costs. Thanks Technology Person!
@@whuzzzup Same happened with economical/hybrid cars.. and those calculations have gone out the window with incredible increases in LNP and Petrol prices. It pays to be ahead of the curve sometimes.
@@freejulianassange537 Also, and I know this is some privilege speaking, but if you have the money to make the switch return on investment isn't really all you should care about. Honestly it doesn't even need to be the highest thing on the list of things you care about. The benefit to society and the planet are externalized costs that we forget far too easily.
Your comments on contractor price gouging are spot on. My municipality offered a $1,000 rebate for installing a hot water heat pump last year but you had to choose from their list of 16 installers. Each one of the first few installers quoted between $5,000 and $6500. By the time I contacted 6 of these contractors I realized this is just a scam to have the $1000 handed over to the installer plus they are gouging beyond that. I ended up calling a regular plumber who was not familiar with heat pumps. together we went through the install procedure and he installed it perfectly at $2,200. Most of that was for running the 22V electric since I previously had gas only in that corner. Even without the rebate it was still way cheaper than using those who manipulate government incentive programs. Plus I always wanted a couple of 110V electric outlets in that corner of the garage and he ran lines for those as well (included in the $2,200). So buyer beware in areas where you must use contractors from a specific list (please shop outside the list to get the real price)
Here in Australia the use of reversible heat-pumps is very common so those videos always give me a good laugh, we've got a three decade old Carrier unit and some other modern high efficiency Mitsubishis (split systems are very common here) however it doesn't get all that cold here but the more southern states do rely on gas heating a lot more than up north. About a decade ago the government also subsidized insulation installation for 1.2 million homes for AU$1.5 billion (approx. one B-2 Spirit stealth bomber), the program has since saved >100 TWh of electricity, pushed back the growth trend of natural gas consumption by two years and saved an equivalent 27 million tonnes of CO2.
now if you could just end the total tyranny that same government has forced on you by taking your guns and arresting old ladies and beating people for not wearing face diapers.
But did they insulate RENTAL properties? Here in USA, none of the programs reach renters, only home OWNERS. That traps renters in a cycle of high bills on top of high rents, which together, prevent many from ever getting to buy their own home.
Here's something to laugh at - the internet situation in Australia. I watched a documentary on why it's such a mess and how it got there. Very similar as how the Americans got stuck with sub par HVACs. Except Australians got shafted by their government and not by free market. As it is usually the case with Ausies.
Sacker987 - You might be interested in my other comment, which is about engineering for HVAC and more: ruclips.net/video/43XKfuptnik/видео.html&lc=Ugz2aofWigb0Rk9LR_N4AaABAg
Because it improves sales and service fees. But not actually, because it would create a safe heating source from an efficient local energy storage. It's unreliable, maybe usable as a 2nd unit, for cooling AND optional heating, but not as a main unit The electrical grid will be even less reliable if cars and heating also relied on it and increase the demand 5-8 times.
Oh look! Someone in HVAC advocating for guaranteed government subsidies. Who woulda thunk it. I mean, it's not like government subsidies caused the medical care and education costs to increase 7 times more than inflation or anything. I mean, what could go wrong???
Oh look! Someone in HVAC advocating for guaranteed government subsidies. Who woulda thunk it. I mean, it's not like government subsidies caused the medical care and education costs to increase 7 times more than inflation or anything. I mean, what could go wrong???
We had a ducted "multi-split" system retrofitted last year, upgraded from a ancient 80+ gas furnace. Not looking back - apart from being orders of magnitude more efficient, it's also a lot quieter and more comfortable as it keeps the temperature far more constant. Even in CA where such a system is an absolute no-brainer, I was shocked how ignorant or even hostile towards heat pumps some HVAC contractors are. One tech claimed that they are some newfangled technology that "always breaks", another gave us offers for gas and hybrid systems even though I was very clear about wanting to ditch natural gas. Imagine what we could achieve if just a fraction of the $30+ billion the US wastes annually to subsidize fossil fuels was spent on upgrading insulation and HVAC systems. Stay on your soap box, Alec!
$15,000 IN SAN DIEGO is insane. I would buy the unit wholesale for $3000. Then tell the HVAC company “I already have the heat pump. Just install it please.” I do that with car dealerships too: I supply the oil & filter, and they charge $15 labor. It saves money .
I just bought 4 mini splits off Amazon for about 4k. Definitely better to buy it yourself and install yourself/hire a hvac guy to install. Also what's the $30B? I haven't heard that number before.
@@parker9012The true number is much, much more - wrecking the planet is incredibly profitable 🤮 Annual direct producer subsidies (mostly in the form of tax breaks) in the US at federal and state level total $20 billion according to a 2015 study by Oil Change International. On top of that, there are $14 billion in consumption subsidies (Reporting by several reputable news outlets, although I couldn't find the primary source for that number). This doesn't even include all the indirect subsidies, like military operations to secure oil or health care costs due to pollution. Of course all of the above pales in comparison to the economic impact of heatwaves, floods, droughts, wildfires, and sea level rise caused by fossil fuels...
As an HVAC technician of roughly 20 years, seeing the SEER rating of these new units vs. what we were putting in back in the early 90's.. just awesome. Half the amperage and 300% more heat/cooling compared to some equipment. Insulentives has to be the best description of rebates lol. And yes they're easy to install, even multi head units. But give troubleshooting them a shot.. Experience in our trade saves time there, and the better quality the unit, the less chance of expensive service calls later. Manual and tech support are almost always necessary.
Has the efficiency at low temperatures and outside unit noise improved? If you live in Canada, having temperatures below -30°C isn't unusual and the colder the weather, the more the heat pump struggles to do its job.
@@AgentSmith911 which is basically logic. Which is why i still use a regular electric heater, battery powered. And them batteries charge themselves with solarpower etc. Might be a bit less efficient, but the heater heats.
I worked in HVAC for over a decade, mostly doing residential install and service. I have been disgusted by the experiences of friends family members in recent years as the large companies now dominating the local region are obviously engaged in serious price-gouging *and* seem to have a policy to refuse to repair existing units in order to encourage easy, high-profit replacements. And this was true even *before* the economic woes of the 2020's. I'm sure that it's even worse today. Get as many quotes as practical and look up equipment prices on your own to be as informed as possible. While small, fly-by-night companies might be unlicensed scammers, experience suggests that the large companies in my area are doing most of the scamming and fraud.
Sadly thats the nature of capitalism, especially this late. Bigger companies push out or buy up the few honest smaller businesses and then gouge the price as much as they can get away with
Common practice with lots of "techy" things these days. Expensive, lackluster support, and once it's out of warranty the service is nearly non-existent.... "Simply" but a new one.
That is exactly why we do everything ourselves. We bought our own heat pumps and we're installing those guys. We already have four installed and we're putting up another two this week. And I'm licensed cuz I went ahead and took the HVAC test to get my license just to do my own work and be able to order any more coolant I might need. We got a price quote for Windows and it's going to be $14,000. We went to home Depot and we've ordered all of our windows and it cost us $3,000 for all the windows and we're installing them ourselves one by one we've already gotten three done. We just finished insulating the attic ourselves and we are almost done insulating the walls because our house was built in 1939 and whoever remodeled it right before we bought it didn't even bother to put in insulation. Yeah we always do things ourselves cuz it's way too expensive to have someone else do it
The scum bags at Home Depot quoted me $12,000 to replace ONE 3 ton heat pump. I took HVAC repair in high school, I laughed in the guy's face and sent him out the door...."Don't worry, you can put it on your Home Depot credit card".
@@paulstaf lol. Wow. We bought a 3 ton mini split with 3 indoor units for $3,000 and we are installing it ourselves this week. Far less labor than running ductwork. The vacuum pump, gauges, and associated tools cost me about $700, but that's still a lot less than $12,000, and I plan on installing more mini splits and also using them for car a/c repair.
Here in Norway heatpumps are mostly the norm if you're looking to upgrade your home in terms of heating. It gets cold here, and -12C in winter is common even along the coast, and inland it can get down to -30C, though it usually stops at -20C. Most homes now have heatpumps, it's rare to see one without it. We live in a newer home that already had a heatpump when we moved in, but it broke down after aproximately 20years of faithful service(and that had to do with bad maintenance), so just a couple months after we moved in it had to be replaced. The cost of ripping out the old one and installing a new one(both indoor and outdoor) came to 30 000 nok, which equals to approx. 3500 american dollars. And that was both the job and the price of the new system. So the price you guys have over there is outrageous, you shouldn't have to file for a loan to fix your heating, that's stupid. We've not had a single issue with heating this winter, though it crept down to -20C. I also have friends that live in houses as old as 300 years(yes, their house is older than the US), and with a heat pump installed, no insulation upgrade, and a woodstove, it keeps their house way above freezing without issue. They're planning on getting in some new insulation this summer, and are looking forward to their heat pump being more efficient because of it. Their heating and woodbills have majorly decreased after the heatpump got installed. So greetings from the arctic circle, heatpumps works here too.
Yeah, but heat pump systems drop in efficiency as outdoor ambient drops - particularly when below freezing… So, in very cold regions here in the US, cost per BTU is less for 95% gas furnaces than heat pumps… Almost by as much as 50% depending on relative cost of each… Nothing against heat pumps; I live in Phoenix, Arizona where our winters are rarely below 2-3 Celsius so I prefer heat pumps as they don’t dry out the air like furnaces do and cost to run a heat pump won’t be significantly more, if at all, than gas…
@@EarlHayward I already saw this exact comment from this exact user... And in that "but sometimes" scenario, well, gas would be more efficient for heating for... I don't know, less than 10% of the time? Heat pumps are still worth it. Really worth it. Yes, for real.
That sound at 38:06 is... uncomfortably accurate. Nice voice acting! Great video. I do wish I'd have known more to research options in my area prior to installing a new furnace last winter (old one bit the dust), but this does have me hopeful that once that one dies in a decade or so, heat pumps will be an incredible option.
I feel like that every time he posts about heat pumps. A couple years into the current system, and sure it's dual stage, but I still sometimes feel like I got scammed...
5:00 I'm reminded of the topic of incentive Nudges as policy - in England(? I could be forgetting details) they really wanted people to insulate their old homes. Tried all the things, carrot and stick. Very few takers. It wasn't until the policymakers examined the pain points of insulating an old house that they realized that it was all well and good to offer cheap/free insulation but most people were reluctant because they would have to clean out their attic full of storage. Instead of paying for insulation, they started offering an attic clean out service (plus insulation) and suddenly the adoption skyrocketed. If someone offered me 'nebulous future utility savings but I had to do physical work' I probably would pass...but if they offered to clean my house and give me nebulous savings...I'd be on board.
@@electrictroy2010 Its no so one sided. In older homes usually live older people - so for them its literal pain to clean. And they have to pay someone to do it, so to invite a stranger in their home, so it becomes a whole thing. Or its younger people but they are working mon/fri and dont want to spend their only free weekend to do more work. The insulation is free, but to get it you must work to get it. So its not really free. And savings are very...abstract. Tell them EXACLTY how much less they will pay for heat and people will be more willing.
@@alexforce9 And beyond that, a lot of attic storage is stuff there isn't room for anywhere else, shoved up in a storage space with no floor- it's awkward to get at, and may contain a large amount of items that you don't wannt to have in the house around children and so on (whether it's a set of saws or your bondage equipment), and may be catastrophically dusty as a result of you being unable to properly clean up there (all the items in my old attic were around the trap-door, because it didn't have a floor- the ceiling would hold boxes of xmas decorations well enough, but it certainly wouldn't have supported me whilst i tried to hoover)
@@electrictroy2010I for one dont find the idea of emptying a primary storage space, having to find a temporary place for it all to clutter up the house, then putting it all back once the insulation is installed for nebulous savings because the government asked nicely very enticing.
If you have to use the condensate-pump method for getting rid of your indoor unit's condensation, you'll want to keep an eye on it. Make sure there's a switch installed (AND FUNCTIONING) that shuts off power to the ENTIRE SYSTEM if the pump's collection container fills up. My system had such a switch, but that switch failed in the closed position. The condensate pump failed. The collection container filled up. And kept going. And going. And going... Insurance doesn't cover water damage from broken condensate pumps. Ask me how I know.
Yep, when I got my dual zone mini-split in I initially suggested a location that would need a condensate pump. The install planning guy basically told me they refuse to do installs that require pumps because of the likelihood of eventual failure. We figured out a spot for the living room unit where they could run a drain line down the wall, across the basement ceiling and then into a floor drain without needing a pump.
And if you use a container to collect the condensed water make sure that it can overflow without restrictions, moreso if you have your indoor unit above your bed. Ask me how I know.
Thanks to people like you, I found the confidence to install a 4 zone mini split in my house-by myself- and just finished yesterday (aside from some cleanup work), and it seems to be working brilliantly.
While his confidence building may be nice I would never take these types of videos as "instructional" enough to actually complete a job like that.... Might be enough to call someone and get it done finally but definitely feel like using him as a guide would be ill advised. I suspect he would DEFINITELY want you finding out much better directions than the surface level descriptions he provides here.
$15,000 IN SAN DIEGO is insane. I would buy the unit wholesale for $3000. Then tell the HVAC company “I already have the heat pump. Just install it please.” I do that with car dealerships too: I supply the oil & filter, and they charge $15 labor. It saves money .
I bought a 5 way heat pump last year after watching your previous videos. It has been an absolute game changer for us. We previously only had baseboard heating and window units. Now we have cheaper heat and silent ac. The pump outside is quiet, I never notice it. As a bonus it is located the side of the house that is unseen and unheard.
That may have been the best impression of a condenser starting up that I've ever heard. You've got some good info here. We are currently building a new house in Niles, IL and I really geeked out on the HVAC system. 96% two stage gas furnace, 18seer two stage heat pump, zoned duct system, and in-floor hydronic to boot. Thermostats are programmed to use gas equipment at lower outdoor temps and the heat pump when it is more mild. With 6kw of solar on the roof and gas rates increasing lately, I may end up pushing that threshold temp lower as long as the HP efficiency remains decent.. I've done the entire installation myself (I'm a contractor) except for connecting the lineset and charging the system. I basically had to 'trick' my HVAC guy into thinking he was charging a standard a/c unit by not springing it on him that it was a heat pump until he arrived. Pretty sure he's still not happy about it (the charging process is exactly the same). Every HVAC contractor I have discussed the subject with around here have scoffed at the idea of a heat pump.
Living in MT and my wife is in HVAC, she thinks I am dumb for even considering a heat pump. Our house had the boiler run for only a few hours each day most of the winter.
@@baills5694 Was it oil fired? In my area, the city has naturalgas but the areas outside the city don't have the piping for it and so they all run with oil. It's a huge waste of oil, IMHO.
Here in Aotearoa it gets so cold that you are legally required to insulate the pipes inside your house for risk of them freezing and bursting. I know people who grow pine (the cheapest wood here, by far) who heat their homes with a heat pump. It's archaic to think that refrigeration technology is so far behind that we can't use it to heat a home in 2022.. I installed a heat pump hot water cylinder only 3 days ago in a city nicknamed 'windy wellington' because the weather is so bad...
@@baills5694 Oh jeez, in a state where the average low is only around freezing... I thought the states were supposed to be the forward thinkers when it comes to tech... :/
I actually work in HVAC direct to consumer sales. I completely agree with you! Heat pumps are fantastic for people who don't need a ton of heat, and are reasonable for people even in higher latitudes so long as their home is properly insulated. Also, installers are sometimes extremely greedy. We look at real costs and almost always sell at lower than our competitors. I wish more companies would be honest and reasonable in their pricing.
Do you have any suggestions for finding less greedy installers? Ours was fairly confident that heat pumps were a waste of money in Southwest Ohio, and they wanted an extra $12,500 to install the heat pump condenser and matching furnace (total cost $19,500). I know labor isn't cheap, but following the 30% material cost rule of thumb shouldn't that be almost half the price? Maybe the problem is they exclusively install Trane equipment.
...and that's how Capitalism _should_ work: if one provider charges too much, in comes a competitor to undercut them. I only comment this because another user commented that overcharging is actually how Capitalism works, but usually it's Government that prevents competition from naturally controlling prices.
Installers also know that some states give fat rebates... I got a 4500 dollar rebate in MA... The installer knows this! All of them do. They mention it while they are giving their quotes. I'm SURE they feel entitled to a piece of that.
as a salesperson you should know that the required heat has no bearing on the abillity to install a heat pump. talk like "you need insulation otherwise you can install a heat pump because they dont generate enough heat" is bullshit. i work with heat pumps that range well into the megawatt range on a daily basis that run as replacements for gas boilers in large commercial buildings. the ecomomics scale with consumption. the more energy you need the more money you save. its always more economical to first install a heat pump and use the funds you save to improve your insulation.
Can't wait for the Pioneer Minisplits to arrive to convert my whole house, I will document the installation and do two full reviews. Hopefully get even more people into the Mini-split game. The "Audiophile" angle is a yet unexplored one. These things are quiet and the humidity mitigation is going to make my basement a joy to work and play. EDIT: I called an HVAC company to quote a swap for my two 3.5 tonne AC units. They wanted $23.8k for the swap. The outdoor units alone by Bosch are over $5k each. So that is why I am going with Pioneer and individual splits.
Splits make a LOT of sense, compared to a ducted system. So much more power-efficient to just heat what areas you need, and not have all the losses in the ductwork. Also, having splits means that you can size them to heat/cool FAST, rather than having to leave everything running 24/7. I'm in Australia and there is no need to cool bedrooms *AT ALL* during the daytime. Using splits you can fire them up 10-15 minutes before bedtime, and the room is cool and ready to go. If a room isn't being used, just shut the door and leave the A/C off. PS: Americans: To prevent getting raped by installers, stop calling them "heat pumps". Just call them Air Conditioners, don't even tell the installers that they are Reverse Cycle.
@@JeffKubel - not with any form of energy efficiency. Zoning is literally just blocking off the vents to a certain area, let's say the bedrooms. You are still running a massive A/C system outside, you just aren't utilizing it's full capacity. So, let's say you have 5 bedrooms and only one of them is occupied, what do you do? Heat all the bedrooms, or not switch on that zone? And with zoning, each room doesn't get individual temperature control, eh ? Big central systems cannot cope with that - unless they use a very inefficient system called "reheat" where they heat/cool to suit the lowest temperature in all zones, then use resistive heating in a smaller zone's air-handler to make just that particular area warmer. Furthermore, ducted and zoned systems are usually undersized and designed to be run continuously. So if had the bedroom zone disabled and suddenly someone wanted to use a bedroom, you have to enable the A/C for that zone, and then wait quite a long time for it to bring the entire large zone to target temperature. Most people end up just leaving the whole house A/C enabled the whole time, which is extremely wasteful. One of the biggest advantages of split systems is to NOT have a huge A/C unit, but instead have a number of small units that you only enable if and when you need them. For example, right now there is only me here in the house. 2 stories, 4 bedrooms and only one person. A zoned central system cannot cope with just heating/cooling the room(s) that I am actually using. I hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain in a youtube comment. I have worked for a long time in the energy efficiency industry and these concepts are often difficult for people to grasp.
I installed an 18,000 BTU mini-split in my uncle's "summer" cabin a couple years ago. They wanted it mainly for the air conditioning but the efficient heating capability has surprised them and allowed them to easily extend their stay both earlier in spring and later into the fall. When I saw the numbers on these latest generation of units I was surprised and impressed. Unfortunately the particular unit I want for _my_ place has been on backorder for months or else I would have been able to heat with that this past winter, which would almost have paid for itself in one year just with the energy savings.
Refrigeration Cycle Connections!!! I'd watch a hundred more videos on this topic. What are the different gasses used and what are their boiling points! Would refrigerators work more efficiently with an outside pump??
Yes would love a video that covers various gasses used, charts of efficiency by temperature, and review of various equipment. Please keep these coming! Thanks!
@@Mushaz Efficiency can vaguely be judged by PT curves. The work is put in at the compressor so a refrigerant that requires more pressure to reach that temp would be less efficient. Manufacturers compensate for this by improving efficiency in other areas to counteract this. There are other measures of efficiency like COP and heat ab- and adsorption, but I wouldnt mind seeing a video on that.
The problem here is he is simply too focused on his own area. In my area, steam heat is common as is the 75 plus year old rowhome. Some of the rowhomes are so old, they go back before the turn of the 20th century. Many of the homes in my area were serviced by central steam heat and that still exists in some parts of my city (Philadelphia). Retrofitting insulation is not particularly easy or even possible. Running duct work is not possible. Steam heat uses only 1 pipe (steam rises gets to the radiators, condenses and falls back down the same pipe it rose in) and so hot water heat is not possible. It would be MAJOR construction to tear out the plaster walls to get to the pipes. Outside of the city, nobody has natural gas, they have oil tanks. Oil fluctuates and heat pumps would probably be better than the oil. NOBODY is going to dump thousands of dollars in a completely new system for some abstraction like reduced co2
Efficiency is greatest when the difference in temperature is smallest. So if its colder outside than in then fridges would be more effficient with a vent.... But then youre frowing away all the 'free' heat!
I've been wondering for a while why we can't get installable fridges with the radiator outside, then i think, oh, they probably count the extra heat as heating for the kitchen.
This whole series on heat pumps is amazing and a great learning experience as a new homeowner, but the spot on a/c unit impression at 38:05 was phenomenal.
With all the emphasis on minisplit systems, I'd recommend doing some videos on heat exchange air vents for bringing in fresh outside air without losing your toasty heat. It's nice having a tightly insulated home but that also prevents CO2 and other nasties from working their way out.
If you watch the Build Show channel, (he's a custom home buklder) but he geeks out on air handling, including heat exchangers and the like. Good stuff! And good suggestion!
Many rental apartment buildings in NYC have "heating included," meaning there's centralized boilers feeding radiators that you have little control over. I used to live on the highest floor, and my room was so hot, that I had to spend the entire winter with my windows open. This is a common story when the tenant of a space cannot easily control the temperature of their space. Very wasteful.
I lived in a similar old building in Detroit. It’s very very cold there but our windows were wide open. The bathroom became quite an impressive sauna when showering, so that was a bonus!
That seems like a tremendously naive design that only made sense before we had cheap electronics. Especially if boilers large enough to heat the building can be built with variable output. Then you could maybe have per-apartment thermostats control valves that admit the hot water into a particular apartment's radiators, and linked up so that the boiler only puts as much energy into the water as is actually needed to serve demand. The upside is that if you have all the windows open maybe the airflow is better, but I can't help thinking there's better ways to do that (maybe not as retrofittable though; it's not like solenoid valves are big).
LANDLORDS ARE DUMB. Not news. My apartment has the thermostat locked behind a vent. While I can unscrew the cover, wouldn’t it make more sense to mount the control on the wall? Then the renter could change the temperature. But the landlord doesn’t want me setting my own temp (even though I pay the electric bill separately)
I am also experiencing huge HVAC markups with installing my Mitsubishi system (ducted air handler heat pump in the midwest). The markup was 2-3x the actual equipment cost difference compared to the low efficiency system they were pushing. Keep up the good work, you have quickly become one of my favorite channels.
It's good to see people talking about this and demystifying it. If word gets out perhaps some installers can begin to make big inroads into their competition by charging fair rates for this technology and undercutting the sharks.
Here in the UK anything with refrigerant costs a fortune due to all the regulations. Have you taken into account the pipes and refrigerant in the equipment cost ? We typically pay more for the refrigerant gas than for the unit we put it in, and the copper pipe isn't cheap either.
Funny story: your first heat pump video was published just weeks after a had a 210' trench excavated around my house and yard in order to heat the shop behind the house. I also trenched 100' around the other side of the house for power. If I had seen it first, or otherwise learned of heat pumps first, I could have skipped that gas line trench and all the work to fix the yard. Hopefully others learn first. Even though I have the gas line and furnace installed my heat pump is arriving next week. Hopefully solar will be in within a year.
There are also "geothermal" heat pumps that require excavation. The pipes are put a meter (3-4 feet?) below the ground where the temperature is already constant and above freezing, which makes the system more efficient
Just want to say, I really enjoy the random stock video selection for the VO segment at 32:46. A lot of older homes in my area (central Arizona) have AC+Furnace, because that's just what they were designed for. My home was converted at some point from Cooler+Furnace to Heat Pump and I couldn't be happier. We had to replace the unit at the beginning of 2020 -- $15,000 for a 18 SEER 3.5t 2-stage unit plus new soft ducts to the extreme ends of the house. It was pretty painful but we need AC in Arizona as much as you need heat in Illinois. It sucks getting taken along for a ride on something that's so important to your living.
$15,000 INSTALL is insane. I would buy the unit wholesale for $3000. Then tell the HVAC company “I already have the heat pump. Just install it please.” I do that with car dealerships too: I supply the oil & filter, and they charge $15 labor. It saves money .
@@electrictroy2010 hvac guy here, nobody worth their salt is gonna install your used unit or warranty it. It's not a slight against you, it's that nobody wants to waste their time making half the money they could be making (markup on parts is sometimes the ONLY profit some companies budget into their jobs) and nobody wants to be tied to a unit that they didn't order and spec out because the warranty process for that can be a nightmare and a contractor's bond is on the line in most cases. Just the way it is unfortunately. I also used to be an auto mechanic, and I'm very VERY surprised you found an actual dealership that'll do an oil change for you using oil and a filter you provided and only charge labor. You must live in a small town because around here (phx) they'd tell you to take a hike. Quick lube is big money especially with the techs doing a multi point inspection and writing up everything they can to try and get some work.
I think that the part where you explained “why insulation is better than heat pumps” can be summarized with this thought experiment : If you’re filling a bucket with water from the tap, and that the bucket have holes in it. Do you try to get a bigger tap to fill the bucket faster, or do you try and fix the most amount of leaks?
Sigh. Our central AC died last year and I would have loved to replace it with a heat pump but based on everything you've said it sounds like it probably won't be doable right now. The house is 132 years old and has exposed brick in a couple of rooms. In order to insulate it properly we'd probably have to renovate the entire thing. And the upfront cost is just... phew. Funny enough our neighbors got a heat pump last year, one of the Carrier mini splits, and all he had to say about it was "we overpaid". I'll have to really crunch the numbers and make sure, but dang, I'm disappointed. Not by you, just by reality, as usual - this is exactly the kind of info I needed right now and I thank you for all of your efforts here 💙
It's shameful! We are so set up to have heat pumps, but domestic availability is generally quite crap and the HVAC trade really likes to gouge for mini-splits. There are some issues that will need to be solved on a case-by-case basis, for sure, but Asia has innovated some amazingly flexible equipment - if only Carrier, Lennox, York etc. would kick into gear and start copying their successes.
actually old houses are fine to use a heat pump UNLESS there has been zero upgrades done in the past 50 years but at that point you might want to invest in some double glazing first. please get this basic concept to get your mindset correct: insulation (or lack thereof) only tells you how much energy you need to heat your home, not how to get said heat into the home. your home does not care if the kW's come from a heat pump or a gas furnace, heat is heat. the only thing you want to focus on is keeping the water temperatures (if you use radiators) as low as possible. i have converted dozens of very old homes over the years. not once have i failed in making the home gas-free.
As long as you can get into the ceiling you can do it yourself and it's really not that hard. We've already installed four in our house ourselves and we're working on another one this week. If your house is all brick you just definitely have to go up through the ceiling instead of through the wall like we've done but it's definitely doable yourself.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld we are putting insulation into our walls and our ceiling because our house was built in 39 has no insulation at all. It makes a huge difference to have the insulation. But yeah heat pumps would have worked without insulation but they definitely use far less electricity when the house is properly insulated. The difference was night and day when we finished our attic last week. So much cooler.
@@jkfeatherranch make no mistaker. insulation helps ofcourse. but you would have need to spend the same energy to heat it with gas or past hopes and dreams as you would with a heat pump. the bottom line on the amount of energy you need does not change. you would also save the same amount if you would only insulate and keep the existing system.
Technology Connections has to now be a force for good in the consumer energy space, mere months after conquering "Big Dishwashing" capsules. Keep preaching anti-"but sometimes", Alec.
With my whole house Carrier Infinity Heat pump, I can stand right next to it when it's at full bore and have a conversation. It's an amazing unit and a shame that more people don't get on board. Even when I specifically told the HVAC company that I wanted a heat pump they looked at me as if I was some crazy person. But now I am laughing all the way to the bank.
I'm working on convincing my parents to replace their decades-broken AC system and 60-year-old furnace with a heat pump, and this video going into specifics about brands that can be used to replace such an existing system is especially great for that! They've been getting hit *really* hard by their gas bills in recent years, which is the main reason I'm getting through to them about a heat pump being a good idea. Though I imagine that insulation is probably an equally, if not more important thing to do, in their 1960s-built California home. I *know* their windows are garbage, but they have over a dozen BIG ones, and several are these old-style "bulging window frames" where there's a huge empty frame with a shelf *outside* the walls, and *then* the window panes themselves in this elaborate metal edifice with several panes of glass per window. It'd be ridiculously expensive to replace all these windows... But they did just get their entire attic cleaned out, so adding new insulation up there might well be fairly easy. But they *also* need a new roof soon, onto which they intent to add solar panels. So these home improvement costs are getting astronomical... Oi.
If you want solar, think about combined solar. Meaning PV and heating. the heating won't be enough for the home, specially in the winter, but its something. Working together with a heat pump that should be cheaper than just going all in one one technology.
@@the_retag They *do* need that, seeing as how their bathroom windows are particularly bad. But that'll make so little difference as to be effectively meaningless for insulation improvement. That's just 2 out of the 15 windows that their house has, and they're easily the smallest out of all of them, too.
I would really love a video on insulation specifically. All the types! My main questions are about environmental impact and fire safety. Also the environmental impact of flame retardants in home construction and furnishings, but that's a different video.
Belida Carr has a good channel comparing building products, including several deep (itchy?) dives into the pros and cons of various types of insulation. She lives in Texas, so her videos are a little bit light on snow-belt applicability, but she presents her information clearly and is VERY up front when manufacturers give her tours and samples. ruclips.net/user/BelindaCarr
First, if fire gets to your insulation, your house is already gone. We're using mineral wool insulation in our walls and traditional fiberglass in our ceilings as we remodel. Get the highest R value you can for the space you have. It will only pay for itself as time passes!!
Idk if technology connections will ever do one but Matt risinger has multiple videos about all types of insulation for a wide variety of building types
I recently replaced my heat pump in Central Florida. I was surprised by several companies that were trying to talk me out of it. I asked a lot of questions pretending I didn't know about heat pumps and got a mix of good and bad answers. Also I had a 3 ton unit and just over by a few square feet to move to a 3.5 ton unit. In the end I found someone with very little markup for a heat pump, took time to add freon in my old leaking system to help determine if the current system would cool well enough and give me options that made sense. Luckily for me my Honeywell smart thermostat showed over 150 hours of use for heating in the winter. I had 7 quotes with only 3 that seemed like they understood heat pumps and the reasons they were valuable. A couple companies said that they just were not needed because it didn't get that cold. It got down in the 30's last winter which would have been too cold in house for me. I used heat pumps in Missouri and Kansas and they worked great until it got below 25 degrees Fahrenheit for the older units. Makes sense in most of US.
Great video. I wish I had found it when I was selecting my heat pump. I got 20 estimates (all but 2 were $22,000-41,000). If I had seen this video, it would have made my process way faster. I ended up with a 3-ton "mini-split" that hooks up an air handler so I can use my central ducting. Under $12,000 all in. I'm replacing an oil furnace and this house will have AC for the first time in its 132 years of existence. But I only got to a reasonable plan and estimate after having to learn way too much about HVAC, so I could sort through all the nonsense HVAC companies were telling me. This 45 minute video would have saved me dozens of hours.
When I moved into my house 6 years ago, it had a 5 ton single package single stage single speed heat pump with electric auxiliary heat under the house but it was 26 years old and dying. We replaced it under the California Energy Upgrade plan with a 3.5 ton split two state variable speed heat pump with electric auxiliary heat with two zones and it’s been really nice. The old unit was an American Trane. The new unit is a Bryant (Carrier). I asked for a 3.5 ton oven a 3 ton recommended because I didn’t understand why the previous was 5 ton. And the O terminal is the reversing valve pin for most thermostats but not Trane- I think it was C. Servicing my dying unit the HVAC contractor shorted the reversing valve and blew the fuse confusing it for common. I knew the difference because I downloaded the manual. Then when it frozen over, I diagnosed the defroster board was bad. They didn’t believe me and replaced it only to humor me and exclaimed it was bad when they saw scorch marks on the board replacing it- no they hadn’t check when I mentioned the symptoms matched- they just kept saying my filter’s probably dirty despite me having replaced it. I should not know more than the expert I hire to do the work. The contractor seemed familiar with ducts and coolant lines but seemed completely untrained on the electronics.
Poor understanding on the electronics has also been my experience with residential HVAC techs. When I had an AC replacement done a few years back, they did not understand how to hook up the Carrier condensor unit to the Carrier Infinity furnace (air handler) controls. They were about to do it wrong (probably would kill the thermostat/interface and/or the controller) when I brought them a copy of the manual (they didn't have one) and showed them the connections. They still didn't understand so they had to call back to the shop and confirm - but they followed the diagram eventually and it worked. They just seem really averse to RTFM - gotta look like they know everything I guess?
The oversized “ton” rating is due to the stigma that you need double the cooling capacity for heating. In very cold climates you might, but just maintaining my system has improved its efficiency by another factor. Part of the maintenance was smacking the Taco superheat pump so it would make hot water that keeps the heating load balanced, it’s impeller had seized from buildup since the relay was bad.
Hydronics is very underrated. It allows to add a whole new level of flexibility. For example, you can use the hot water tank to shift the heating (or cooling) demand by preheating or precooling it in advance, when the electricity costs are lower. You also can use hydronics with head units that simply run hot/cold water through heat exchanger instead of refrigerant.
I like hydronic heating. Simple zone control, nice and quiet. My last house had hydronic heat. My new (old) house has hot air (from a wood burning furnace with oil backup).
Plus hydronic heating systems dont move the air as much. So there is less dust in the air. Shifting the demand with hot water could be quite benificial when you have solar or a smart tarif where you pay the actual price. Being able to only heat when the grid has to much power could be good for the grid if millions of homes could shift their heating demands on cue
In our new farm house we added a layer of clay onto the brick walls. Then wood shaving insulation panels and another clay layer. Next the pex tubing and another thick layer of clay. The whole wall is open for steam release but with good insulation values and lots of thermal mass. Another benefit of this style are lower temps in the lines (better for heat pumps) and the moisture regulating properties of clay. We are going to install solar, a heat pump,plus a sensible heat store (insulated water tank). When the sun is shining we will preload the walls and tank in the daytime and use the heatpump less at night.
Alec, thank you for pointing out the price gouging. I was turned away from an HVAC company for a mini split because they claimed they no longer had a mini split person. As if it is really any different to install. 3 others quoted 10k per indoor unit, the equipment was about $4500 shipped to me and they wanted $30k to do it, nothing more than greed. I ended up going with a MrCool unit that requires no vacuuming of line sets and is an easy DIY. If a local company had quoted me 12k to install a 3-4 indoor multi-zone system they would have gotten a sale instead they all wanted more than double that and therefore I did it myself over a weekend. The industry needs serious changes or else they will lose to more DIY options.
Exactly. It makes no sense. Mini-split systems are MUCH more DIY friendly, so one would think they would want to hit that market with everything they have. Instead they're pushing against it and ultimately losing more and more business.
These prices are outrageous. I live in Australia and these sort of air conditioners are on virtually every house and there are so many companies that can install them. This is a price list accurate as of April 2022 converted into USD/Tonne for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries arguably the best brand, it used to be so much cheaper before COVID but everyone is putting their prices up. Make your own mind up looking at the below but even the 7 kW units that cool or heat an entire large house it's still only 1.5k usd 2.5 kW (1.0 tonne) $800 USD 3.5 kW (1.0 tonne) $1,000 USD 5.0 kW (1.5 tonne) $1,100 USD 7.0 kW (2.0 tonne) $1,400 USD Reiterating this isn't just installation, this is supplying the actual air conditioners, delivery, installation, labor, testing.... 5 year warranty For $10k I could install a 22 kw (>6 tonne) ducted unit into a 5 bedroom house with the entire house cooled or heated and probably still have heaps of cash left over. American labor is cheaper, why are your air conditioners so expensive!
The biggest issue for DIYers is that many HVAC companies will not service your system if it wasn't installed professionally. I am fairly confident if I ever have a failed part on my DIY installed unit, I'll struggle to find someone to fix it. But given the price difference of 30-40k for a 3 or 4 zone unit, I could easily buy 8 systems at the current price before my investment was a bad deal. I'll take those odds even if it is incredibly wasteful to essentially throw away a system if I can't fix it or get it fixed. The good news is they are relatively simple systems and parts replacement outside of the refrigeration loops is likely very doable. We'll see if I have any regrets in the future but so far I have none.
@@renakunisaki Technically it already is as an unlicensed person. But, it's not like you'll be arrested or prosecuted unless you're doing it for money. You can also buy the refrigerant as an unlicensed person as long as you say you're buying it to resell.
We're in Seattle, and we had a 6 head Mitsubishi system installed. The installer asked about any HOAs they had to worry about. They never said anything about an ordnance being a problem, and we've been enjoying stable air temperatures for the last two winters, and one summer.
I’m In Seattle too. I replaced my forced air electric furnace to a central heat exchanger (Carrier). It did cut my power bill in half for winter and it’s a 2-stage (hi/low) compressor. Still though, if I ever have the option, these mini splits seem like a great way to go!
Promising as these are, and as far as they've come, I feel like I'm stuck in the mid '80s, shopping for a computer, and looking at paying $4000 for an 8088 running DOS 3 from floppies at 4mHz. Retrofitting my house with a heat pump was quoted last year at over $30,000, and that's really hard to justify when the existing boiler and occasionally leaky radiators heat the house pretty well for around $1500 annually. If electricity were free, I'm still looking at a 20 year break even point, assuming I've even got that many years left. I'd be happier to rip out the whole rusty, noisy system and replace it with a minisplit but as you mention, there just aren't a lot of contractors out there willing to do this for a fair price. I'm confident I could do the work myself, but it's just not in my aging bones to take on that sort of a DIY project anymore. The only hope for our planet is that my computer analogy is correct and that the $4000 desktop system evolves rapidly to become the $300 laptops we have to day, faster, cheaper, better and longer lasting. But to deploy heat pumps where they could make the most difference, not only reducing emissions, but creating financial stability for millions of families, is going to take an effort comparable to rural electrification, and I do not believe the US has the political will to carry it out.
@@justcommenting4981 cash for clunkers was a horrible wasteful program that did nothing to get older cars off the road. It was a backdoor bailout for auto manufacturers.
@@656hookemhorns yea, but it did facilitate people buying new cars didn't it? The point was, some sort of program should exist to give an immediate incentive to switch to more efficient heating and cooling systems.
You're right about the price gouging going on. I live in the Seattle area and wanted to get a mini-split system installed last spring. The cheapest quote I could get for a 4-head 3 ton unit installed was 12K. The high end quote I got was 19K. I ended up going with the low bidder, but it turned out to be something of a mistake. The technicians really didn't know what they were doing and it took 4 follow-up visits and a different company with competent techs to figure out that they didn't tighten the flare connectors enough to stop them from leaking refrigerant. I blame part of the cost on inflation and demand, though. There are a lot of people retro-fitting similar systems for cooling around here as our summers are becoming increasingly hot and most of the existing houses weren't built with cooling systems. I'm still very happy I did it. The cooling made last summer's record high temperatures actually bearable, and our heating costs this winter have been significantly lower (we have a gas furnace).
i dont think it matters what kind of refrigerant device theyre installing. theres no reason why a company that works with any refrigerant devices wouldnt know how to tighten a connector so that refrigerant doesnt leak
I live in a pretty high price area too. I have the common central ducted system with a condenser outside and a furnace/evaporator coil inside. My system was over 20 years old and the outdoor AC unit was dying, it was either fix it or replace the system. Decided this was a good time to switch to heat pump as I didn't want to risk a broken AC during the sweltering summer here and heating oil prices are only getting worse, epically with the current supply chain issues. Last year my AC broke in the middle of summer and it took over a month and a half to get a replacement part and I didn't want to go through that again. For a 3.5 Ton SEER 16 HSPF 9 heat pump + new air handler I was quoted anywhere from $9.5K to $14K (depending somewhat on the brand: Bryant was cheapest, Carrier & Trane was middle of the road, and Lennox was sky high). This was for a normal "entry level" single stage heat pump, not a mini-split, not a multi-stage or variable speed, and not a cold climate heat pump. When I looked at systems that were cold climate adapted, basically could pull heat even at 0F with very little loss in efficiency, the prices where through the roof! We are talking $18K - $30K! I wish there was more incentive to bring this new tech down to the masses, I think it could help a lot of people but right now the tech seems to be limited to only the premium and luxury models. I got quotes from 4 different vendors so it wasn't an outlier.
Hi Jordan, what companies did you get quotes from? I’m in Seattle and looking for more estimates to do a swap of my oil furnace for a heat pump and air handler using my existing ducting. Thank you
One of the things I've noticed in the builder/contractor scene being a GC in the southeast for over a decade is that there are a LOT of "old school" techs out there that are afraid to adopt new technology. They've been installing the same ac/heat pump units for decades and they know it down to the tee, brazing lines, climbing in sweltering attics and damp and cramped crawlspaces to install air handlers and evaporators is all part of "how it's done" in their minds. They know what it takes and can give a solid price number that they are comfortable with. I hate to use the "ok boomer" analogy with it, (I'm knocking on 40 atm), but their resistance to trying anything other than what they can do blindfolded makes them overcompensate in pricing for "that new-fangled stuff the kids are talking about". I see the same issue with metal frame homes vs traditional stick construction. Had 2 friends in nearby towns have nearly identical metal homes built right b4 covid. One hired the well known contractor that had built stick homes for 40 years, the other found a builder that was familiar with metal buildings. The cost difference due to change orders from the stick man having to order additional material (he framed everything 12" on center, thus wasting literal tons of material as he could at least gone 16" or up to 24".) But the point still stands, the stick builder built the metal building as if it were traditional lumber because he was unfamiliar with a different building practice and mindset in general. I was also told his labor cost was also about 20% over what he would have charged on a traditional stick building bc of the "added complexity". My century plus home has/had a traditional 3.5 ton outdoor heat pump/air handler combo on it. The previous owner added around 2000sqft to the house but didn't upgrade the unit to compensate (standard estimates call for a ~5ton unit for the total size now. Regardless, the unit finally gave up the ghost last winter as it would normally run full tilt with emergency heat just to try to keep up with the piss poor ductwork for the house (6 vents alone in the kitchen that was directly against the wall where the unit was installed.) dropped pressure to the point that the rooms at the far end of the house (3 rooms with 2 ducts each) each room only had 1 duct connected and even then, airflow was marginal at best. All that being said, I am looking to install 2 mini split systems next month. I have sized the outdoor heat pumps to be overkill for the initial install. They are capable of 4 heads each but I only intend to run 2 heads to start for the downstairs then will add additional heads upstairs later if need be. I had intended to do all the work myself from the get go, but called a few local hvac techs to get quotes for just install (I would provide parts) and all of them gave quotes that were around 2 times their quotes to replace the traditional unit and upgrade the ductwork compared to just installing parts that I was providing separately.
If you don't want to get raped on the install costs, DON'T CALL them "Heat Pumps". They are Air Conditioners, with Reverse Cycle. Don't even tell the installer that it is Reverse Cycle, as it makes zero difference to the installation.
I cannot believe US homes are still stuck with inefficient ducted HVAC systems. Here, in India, everyone just wants a lower electricity bill. Most people will buy a more expensive AC even though it'll take 20 years to break even 🤣. Meanwhile, my newly bought apartment (currently under construction) will be equipped with a very efficient VRF HVAC system. Even the condensate water will be collected and used to water the plants around the complex.
Thank you for this information. I live on Gabriola Island in BC Canada. Here we have a community program started by an enterprising small group of retired professionals and a willing HVAC professional. They researched heat pumps 10 years ago and decided on the high efficiency Fujitsu. They became a Fujitsu dealer and have been bringing the 12,000 BTU mini split into the community at wholesale. They arranged for a local installer and, once the physical installation is complete the HVAC guy comes by and commissions the unit. In our small community they have installed over 1000 units, even giving some away to needy recipients. BC Hydro has noticed the huge reduction in demand during the winter because most systems replace baseboard heaters, and hundreds of homes are more comfortable and more healthy during the winter (and air conditioned during the summer!). Community in action! It can be done!!
Yep, loads of baseboard heaters here in coastal BC. Heat pumps are super efficient here thanks to being so mild. And at worst, I have a wood stove if we get some freakish -15 days.
I've had similar experiences with even the simplest of minisplit installations. For a tiny minisplit installation like you had where it's right opposite an exterior wall they wanted to charge me $3k+ in labor or $5k to use their minisplit. Which is insane because I spent that much (~$5K) on replacing a whole furnace+evap 2ton unit. I just wanted some tiny supplementary cooling for my computer room. I ended up getting a cheap pioneer unit like yours and having a handyman do the install for
We had a minisplit put in just over a year ago, and I am so glad that I paid the exorbitant prices from a local HVAC company instead of doing it myself. Every 2-3 months, it would lose the last of its refrigerant, and we would need to have it serviced. I got to know the technicians (pretty much all the ones this company had), since they were in our house so frequently. They were extremely knowledgeable and capable, and seemed to assure us each time that the problem was actually solved, but, as you can tell, it wasn't. Eventually the head was completely replaced, and that fixed the issue, but before they reached that point, there was at least 60+ hours of work spent trying to diagnose and fix our lines. Even though it was a bit more than a year (the term of our warranty), the installation company never charged us a dime, which is amazing since for every hour they spent installing this unit, they spent 10 hours on service calls, not to mention at least a thousand dollars on refrigerant (it was replaced probably 8 to 10 times in that year+). I think this is why quotes are so high. Even though most installs are painless, there are a few like mine where everything keeps failing, and you can't charge the customer for it because it is not their fault.
@@uigrad "I think this is why quotes are so high...you can't charge the customer for it because it is not their fault." They DID charge the customer for it. Up front! They need to eat that instead, so that they actually produce decent stuff that works in the first place. Yes, I know they're trying to save money by cheaping out on everything, and so the cost of the equipment will be a bit higher to go with the lower failure rate. But when you figure in the cost of labor to troubleshoot and repair afterwards, especially when the problem is not trivial as in your case, that's really where the expense comes from. Aaaand then we have perverted schemes where the equipment and the labor are on different sets of books, and it becomes profitable to keep the labor up. Similar to McDonalds' ice cream machines that contractually must be the specific "investor special" model that requires regular service calls on purpose. (google that; you'll see what I mean) At least HVAC hasn't gotten to the "on purpose" part yet...
Me and my brother installed mine ourselves, and paid a company like $150 ton connect the lines, vacuum, and test. Had to call several companies, many didn't want to come just hook up lines, but it was well worth it. It is difficult to buy a vacuum set, they hold them hostage unless you an installer, and charge regular folk triple price. It was cheaper to just pay someone to come out.
@@xeridea What I'd like to know is, why do building and automotive systems have to be incompatibly different? It's the exact same process, with the only difference being an accessory belt vs. a dedicated AC motor. And you can get all the parts and tools you want for the automotive version, some of which even comes with instructions. But no, someone decided that they have to use (slightly? maybe in name only?) different refrigerants, and different fittings to make it difficult to hook one up to the other.
@@aaronduerksen1378 From speaking with someone at a store trying to buy a vacuum pump, the reasoning is that the HVAC installers don't want regular folk to work on stuff, it would take away their business. So basically, to keep HVAC installers employed, and able to charge a lot. Kind of like how Apple goes out of their way to make servicing anything they make as difficult as possible, to get you to continue buying overpriced phones and laptops.
I have to say that my experience lines up with your anecdotes. I live in NC USA so I need both heating and cooling, but more cooling. I added a Mitsubishi minisplit to my garage so I could work out in it during the summer comfortably (and I love it!). The first company I called that had serviced my home's barrel style heat pump didn't do minisplits at all for some reason. Later I had my A/C go out in August due to a cracked coil and the recommendation was to replace the condenser and coil given the age of the system. I wanted a variable speed system with high efficiency, but that would have been a 2 month wait and more than double the cost, even though the installation would have been essentially the exact same. I didn't want to go months without HVAC, so I got something very similar to what was originally installed, which is a 14 SEER unit. In the winter the aux heat comes on for a lot of the time and I end up further supplementing with my gas fireplace. I hate it. For a future video I think you should do something on HRV/ERV units that are installed in very airtight homes, like those following the passive house standard. It's a very interesting technology and I think we ought to be pushing codes much closer to passive house standards for both insulation and air tightness. They are dramatically more energy efficient, and have additional benefits including much better indoor air quality (and in NC we have horrible pollen in the spring) and are much, much quieter indoors. Homes like this can often get away with a much smaller HVAC system, and the "lego-like" split systems you talked about are great options there.
The biggest sin here is they installed a 14 SEER unit in 2021. There's no excuse! It's also (obviously) not engineered for the NC climate (I live in extreme NE GA, so similar climate). A decent mini-split system is 22 SEER and will heat to (at least) -5F without inefficient heat strips. Why they don't make ducted systems with the same specs is beyond my comprehension.....
My Mom and Dad built their first home in 1975, a year after my birth. They decided to go with a heat pump. It's in Zone 5b if you're familiar with agricultural zones. Our winters are frikkin cold and our summers are hellishly hot and humid. It's normal to see 95° F with 90% humidity and -10° F with high wind. For the first decade, that heat pump was the only source of heat in the house. And this was using 1970s heat pump tech. That unit was replaced...6 years ago. What a trooper of a heat pump. Yes, it had emergency resistance heat, but it was rare that it called for it. You knew in an instant when it turned on, as the dust would burn off and produce that distinctive smell. Well, that and the big red light on the thermostat, lol. A heat pump is one of the most energy-efficient ways to heat your home, even in northern states with cold winters.
I am just seeing this in September 2023. Wow you are spot on. I got some quotes for mini-splits. These were single head units. After pricing the units I saw that the contractors were GOLD plating their installation. I said no way. I was trying to replace a PTAC unit. Those are the motel units that are everywhere. I bought a heat-pump version with 3.5KW of emergency backup heat coils for 1/10 the price. The old unit slid out the new one slid in. By watching carefully what I was buying, it even plugs into the same outlet. In Kansas City area this will do nicely for the room it is in.
2:37 Yes! Insulation! Save the energy! :) (Am a mechanical insulator as I've said before on this channel, so I appreciate the acknowledgment) In Vancouver BC, the very building where I live's parkade has ~200ft of exposed 2" piping that is our heating supply and return pipes for the in-suite radiators. I have let them know as the building managers have just replaced the roof, envelope and windows to save on energy, but haven't insulated. They're now litigating us to increase the rent $50/mo more to pay for their past upgrades, which has me begging the question of what is our rent paying for if not the maintenance of the building?
The house I grew up in located in South Australia, had a reverse cycle window box type unit as its sole source of heating and cooling. It was installed in the early 90s and worked well until my family sold that house in the early 2000s. Every house I've lived in since has had a heat pump in one form or another. I only recently found out through your channel that reverse cycle air conditioning just isn't really a thing in the US.
I kept thinking “what’s this fancy new heat pump tech?” and took me too long realise every house I’ve been in has had a split system and it’s just the US lagging behind the rest of the world
My US heat pump system dates from the 1980s. The US isn’t lagging… we just have dirt cheap fuel (like $1 gasoline & diesel). It’s only recently that heat pumps became cheaper than oil or gas burners
“reverse cycle air conditioning” confused 1960s American consumers. So it got changed to “heat pump” in the 70s, so people realize it’s a system to make heat
Heat pumps are a thing in America. I have been working on them since my first service call in January of 1984. We use them a lot in rural areas, where there is no gas supply. The house I lived in Grants Pass Oregon back in the 70's had all electric heat, because the cost was like $0.025 per KW in the 70's and now is only about $0.10 per KW due to a lot of hydropower here. Heat pumps are becoming much more popular. Even those homes still heated with oil, it is popular to use a heat pump for most of the winter, only using oil or propane on the very coldest nights, when temps are below 5F. Many times the heat pumps are installed undersized for the heating load. This leads to running the electric back up heater on nights that are below about 25F, so much of the winter in some places. My heat pump is oversized for cooling and just large enough for heating mode. I never hooked up my back up 20 KW heater, so I know it can be done! In Portland Oregon, the lowest normal winter temperature is about 23F. So not very cold here.
Like your brother, I also live in San Diego. When I bought my house 8 years ago, the house had a dodgy gas furnace and no AC. A heat pump was a no-brainer. I shopped around, and at the time, Lennox offered the most efficient system (XP25: 24 SEER), which was only $3000 more expensive than the 13 SEER base AC-only models + gas furnace every installer was pushing. Besides two bizarre hardware failures caused by bad firmware, I've been very happy with it. Paired with solar, the only cost to operate it has been maintenance. The service techs always comment about how rare and fancy this unit is, which saddens me - it should be standard by now!
Weatherization Auditor here, Insulation is my life. I work at a Community action agency and do free efficiency upgrades to lower client's baseloads, such as LED replacements and New Fridges if the current one is over a certain kwh/yr. Our clients are anyone under 200% of the poverty line, with other factors affecting their priority points, or place in line. I also make it my mission to switch out 70 and 80 percent furnaces replaced with a Heat Pump. I'm one a few over here in Western Kentucky. This is important work, Alec. Thanks for covering it.
I would love to re-insulate my house, install new windows, and look into switching into a heat pump with gas for emergency heat, but we also need programs to assist folks who own older homes that contain asbestos. What would be a relatively simple (yet not inexpensive) reinsulation project turns very quickly into something completely uneconomical when the ridiculous cost of asbestos abatement is factored in. It almost turns it into one of those "It's cheaper to demolish" situations, but I can't justify the cost and disruption to my life in order to do this. So I'm stuck - I can't afford a better home because home costs have gone crazy, and I can't afford to resolve issues in my current one in order for my life to become "greener". Sigh.
It's surprising how many homes have some kind of complicating factor like this - and they're the ones that would benefit the most from upgrades! Although asbestos removal can be inexpensive. Recently had a contractor look at my asbestos drainpipes - and they said they'd have to remove them but they could double bag them leave them here and we (as residents, rather than a company) can get a local authority to take them for free. If they took it away (as a company) they'd need an asbestos license and to pay per kg. In my case - I want a heat pump but don't qualify for a grant because I don't have cavity wall insulation. I can't get cavity wall insulation because of concrete gutters - they're known to fail over time and leak onto the insulation, causing really bad damp problems - so no regulated installer will install it unless the gutter has a guaruntee'd lining. So in order to install a heat pump, I have to remove/reline my gutters 🤯🤯
@@naxxtor Certainly, sometimes asbestos removal can be fairly inexpensive, especially in the case of Vinyl Asbestos Tile, Pipe Insulation, Acoustical Ceiling Tiles, etc. In my case, there is use of Zonolite-Sawdust/Asbestos insulation in the walls and ceiling spaces. Tearing open all the walls - even the upper level floor (which used to be an attic) to remove it - would mean I'd have to move out completely in the process. I'd be willing to bet that the cost would be $30-40k just to have it removed, then add the costs of putting whatever new back (foam, fiberglass, etc) and then new wallboard, paint. It's a nightmare.
@@MrCheeto01 No. I don't need the government to pay for all of my "expensive" choices. However - the real estate industry does a piss poor job of informing buyers and obtaining disclosure from sellers regarding the presence of things like asbestos, lead paint, and other hazardous materials. It has also been a sellers market for many years, and as a buyer in this climate you don't really get the opportunity to get thorough inspections of houses if there are multiple people bidding on every shitty house you can barely afford. Additionally, governments do a terrible job of informing potential homebuyers of the probability of their new homes containing these hazardous materials, and the risks posed by them, or the expense involved in mitigating them. Also, many younger folks do not understand the building materials and practices that were used to build these older homes, and moreover - don't really have a "choice" as you suggest. They have a budget, and the market determines what areas they can buy in, and what vintage of house they can afford. It's not like they teach kids how to choose and buy a home in school. I guess they just expect that nobody will be able to afford to buy anymore? Sadly, it seems like we're headed in that direction. Our governments outlawed things like asbestos and lead paint, lead pipes, etc., all for public safety reasons decades ago - but yet, the effort to ensure that younger generations are informed about them have mostly disappeared. Why? Maybe they don't want to get in the way of the real estate bubble, and the revenue they earn from it. So now a new generation is stuck with these houses that aren't worth what it would take to either remediate/renovate, or demolish and rebuild - and the folks living in them can't afford to do either, because they could barely afford them in the first place. Anyway, I "chose" to buy a house I could afford and get out of my parents' basement and not become a RUclips comment troll. It only takes one uninspired comment to see what your choices were.
@@davereichert My Mom (and by extension myself) are looking for a house and fortunately we have a good agent that actually tells us about this stuff and looks for issues like water damage (tons of homes have undisclosed water damage). Most agents don't do this and as a result people are bidding much higher for homes than they should thus further driving the prices up. I do remember learning about asbestos and such as a kid but then I'm 32 so I don't know how common that knowledge is amongst the typical first time home buyers who really don't have any money. (For those curious/irrationally angry that I'm 'wasting my life living with mommy' I could afford to move out on my own but even with my decent paying job I'd almost certainly be stuck renting which is just throwing my money away rather than saving up and still being able to buy some nice stuff for myself like the mid tier gaming PC with dual monitors I'm using right now).
Hello from France ! Loved this series on heat pumps, learned a ton of things. Just so you know, you pretty much convinced me to change my oil system with a heat pump. Plus, I won't have to order it 3 times a year ! You may even have conviced me to ditch out my water / radiator system now.
Spaniard HVAC technician here. Just be sure to get a trusty brand (like Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Hitachi) because of future maintenance and parts availability ;)
Just make sure to check if you can adapt to the air type heating based on an air to air heat pump, in my experience (with air conditioners in heat mode) they are not that pleasant and they make some noise. I've made a test this winter (I live in Romania) and for us is not a comfortable option so I'll try to buy an air to water heat pump to use withe the radiators (fortunately the house is pretty well insulated and the radiators are oversized so even with the actual gas boiler I almost never use the water in the radiators above 40-45 degrees Celsius even at -10/15 degrees.
You mentioned having an AC unit put through a wall. It brings back memories on what my Dad did back in the 1970's. We lived in the Yakima Valley in Washington and at that time HVAC units were not common. We had oil for heating and no AC. My Dad bought a large window unit and put it through the wall and sealed it up. The insulation on the house was a fiberboard nailed onto the outside of the studs with no fiberglass in the walls. The house was built in the late 50's.
One of the largest markets for these split systems is RVs. Lots of full time RVers are installing solar panels on their roofs and lithium batteries to store that collected energy. In this situation the efficiency available in split systems can allow AC or heat to run all night on the stored energy, especially if you only really need to run the head unit in the sleeping space. Add in the fact that full time RVers usually follow the moderate temps because their homes are, you know, on wheels, and you have a perfect use case. Another excellent use case is when homes or living spaces are expanded. It is much easier to add a mini split to a converted garage or attic space than expand or replace an existing whole-house system. Once folks have good experiences with the units in their expanded living space, they may add more mini split systems when it comes time to replace their existing whole house system.
I love this channel so much. One of my all time favorites on youtube. You have an incredible ability to succinctly explain complex stuff. I just wanted to point out that Insulating without Air-sealing can be very problematic. Any time you insulate, you should also air-seal--and vice versa (especially in older homes!) to ensure that the thermal boundary and pressure boundaries are aligned. For example, if you insulated an attic and didn't air seal, now all of the sudden the attic is significantly colder than it was before, when it was heated by the warmth flowing up through the living space. If warm moist air from the inside of the house is still able to make it up through the attic, then you can get condensation on the underside of your roof and create mold and mildew problems or rot your roof off. I'm a Weatherization auditor and I would love to continue to see you explore topics related to weatherization. Maybe a blower door video?? I feel like that's totally up your alley. Thanks for all your amazing work, Alec!
Bradley, A blower door video would be great! Why not make one yourself? Try to write out a script, and then read it without saying Um every 30 seconds! It really helps to practice the script a couple of times before going "Live" on video tape. You have seen those video's where the commentator is saying um all the time, and you hate it - Right. At my house, the State of Oregon sent out a auditor who did a air duct leak test. They never closed off the air filter, or put anything in to stop air backflow through my 4 ton heat pump. They "Claimed" that there is air loss from the air ducts of 250 CFM or something. Then they removed every floor register, and put in duct sealant, and did the test again. Surprise, the ducts are now sealed with less than 50 CFM lost at this test. I never did tell them I know a thing or two about HVAC and air flow. What a rip off, but at least my air ducts have sealant in the area where they meet the floor, and actually are sealed better than before. To do a true test, I would seal each air outlet vent with a plastic shopping bag, then place the vent register back in place. Then with the air filter also in a trash bag, and put back into place, the only air duct open now could have about 1" of static pressure to see how many CFM of air is flowing into the air ducts, and thus out the door! I have seen diligent air loss tests, where the air door blows air into the building, and they used a chemical sprayer to shoot soapy water onto the exterior of the home, to look for leaks. Like around the electrical outlets, window frames, door frames, ect. They got lots of air bubbles. Even at 0.25" of water column pressure in the home. It made quite the display on that video! Soap bubbles everywhere!
I've always looked down on mini-split systems and discredited them as being "cheap, crappy wall A/C systems". Your video taught me a great deal and now I understand they can be excellent options for both heating and cooling, and can sometimes be much more efficient than a ducted system. Excellent video, thank you!
I just installed a heat pump system myself. I have an older home with boiler heat, so ductless was the way to go. Install is easy, and it is incredibly quieter than the window shakers. Haven't used it for heat yet, but I'm going to try it out this fall. I am working on plans for a new house, and I think I am going to use these for the entire HVAC system, along with an ERV. If you are interested in viewing the install, or getting some B-Roll for your next heat pump video, let me know, I'm in northern Illinois. Great video, Im glad someone is pointing out the positives, and possible negatives. Keep up the good work.
watching these videos made me realize what confused me when people talked about A/C and heating... as it turns out many used A/C as synonymous with cooling, which is crazy-talk as where I live the A/C unit has always been capable of both cooling and heating. Just to clarify, central heating systems are really common.
I'm confused too. AC as "air conditioning" here is used in terms of HVAC as "heating, ventilation and air conditioning". As all split systems have heating and cooling, but some also ventilation and humidity control
That shit always annoys me. Air conditioning is temperature and humidity control. It was originally invented to control humidity. Using it only to mean cooling is just stupid
I think it has something to do with the automobile industry. Cars almost always had heaters, but AC was an option. Basically, people began to equate AC with cooling, and heaters with heating. So when it came to heating and cooling the home, the trend carried over... Usually, it's only those who've had at least some level of education in air conditioning, that understand that it includes both and then some...
@@DanielFenandes that's true in all parts of the world! An ac unit, and the science of air conditioning, are two different things. Technically, AC means the conditioning of air by cooling, heating, humidifying or dehumidifying, etc...
I know this will sound a little odd, but one aspect I think you should think about when advocating for this is how there is always a feeling that you don't want to make the jump now because the tech is improving so fast that waiting a year might yield drastically better results. Which becomes equally applicable logic when that year comes up that you feel, "well the return of waiting another year for a better system will outweigh the loss of keeping the current system for one more year."
That may be true for a newer tech like solar or BEVs. But, as mentioned in the video, this isn't anything new. It's all existing tech. Yes, small/marginal improvements are being made, but nothing revolutionary. The only thing that could make a big change would be for US manufacturers to start building large volumes of them and reduce cost via economy of scale, but given the current state of the world, I wouldn't hold my breath for that.
But then you get locked into that pattern, "if i wait just 1 more year....", and never upgrade. I think its best that everyone upgrade as soon as they are able to, rather than wait for a slightly better efficiency, when we have MUCH higher efficiencies than our current systems already.
Counterintuitively efficiency gains may even reverse, when the current efficient gasses are disbanded due to their GWP issues. And we are forced to other gasses like CO2 or flammables.
Great series. You are doing great work. It seems to me that this should be a MASSIVE opportunity for a market disturbance. With all of the venture capital nowadays chasing after ever more mundane market segments (like matresses or funeral homes) you would think that some venture-capitol backed startup would already be trying to "revolutionize" the home heating and cooling space. I mean, a new whole-home furnace/ac in the US is somewhere between $5,000 - 12,000 (replacement, no ductwork) and it really seems like these devices are smaller and less sophisticated than your average washer and dryer or what-have you. Lots of high-pressure, scammy tactics in that market too. How hard would it be for the "AC/Furnace Uber" to arrange for some basic products, arrange for local installers via something like a franchise system and still offer consumers good products at 50% to 75% discounts compared to the typical closed distributor and HVAC shop "cartels."
They have been readily available for a while. The thing with HVAC companies and mini-splits is that you can just buy them online or in a store, which you cannot do with most larger systems. The other issue with these is the capacity; it is nowhere near what you can get from a ducted unit without accounting for duct losses.
The mid-roll ad on this video was a DIY AC unit. Wall-mounted ductless system for single family homes. The market landscape is shifting. I can't wait for mass adoption.
@ErtruDUR - Know some of the right folks, who go in for HONEST investing? Steer them towards my other comment here: ruclips.net/video/43XKfuptnik/видео.html&lc=Ugz2aofWigb0Rk9LR_N4AaABAg
Regarding the units that can transfer heat between rooms, I see this applying to multi-story houses. All of the ones that I've lived suffered from significant temperature differences between floors; someone is always hot or cold and compromise here just leads to neither party being comfortable. Individual room control with the heat moving between rooms sounds very nice. Thanks for the great video!
I have been using a 10000btu heat pump to heat and cool my 1000sqft attached garage in central Ontario Canada. It costs maybe $40 extra /month in the depths of winter and it was not difficult to install. It keeps my insulated garage (doors too) between 15C and 20C all winter. We saw down to -33C this past winter. Much appreciated for working on vehicles.
That stock footage was remarkably related, actually... 38:05 gotta love hard-starting a long-abused brushed AC motor! Really looking forward to more variable speed systems and super-small systems, I want to build out a van eventually and would love to put an adorably tiny heat pump in there to keep the temp under control.
I have worked on heat pumps for 15 years. More specifically, I serviced over 400 of them on a highrise built in the mid 1980s. It was great for the owner as they only had to pay to maintain a 70° water loop. They were efficient but noisy.
@@asbestosfibers1325 I mainly serviced Whalen and Florida heat pumps. They were packaged really tightly. The only real water leaks that I dealt with were on the flexible supply and return hoses and an occasional clogged condensate drain. As for refrigerant, the cap tubes would rub and leak.
Last summer I replaced my ducted heating system with a ductless mini-split and it was a pretty good improvement, because even though the insulation in my house was crap, it at least let me only heat the room I was in. At this very moment I'm having my attic reinsulated and hopefully that'll give me a much bigger improvement. Sometimes it does get a little colder here than a heat pump can quite handle, but that's why I have portable space heaters. Also, I'm in Seattle, and not a single installer I talked to had anything to say about noise ordinances.
Do your windows next. I live in maine and while I see the difference on the heating bill with attic insulation, good windows made all the difference in how a room *feels* moment to moment. Especially in rooms where the thermostat isn't. Get good weather stripping around and under your exterior doors if you don't already. Sometimes it isn't all about keeping the heat in, its more about keeping the cold out. If you aren't vain hang thick blankets in the doorways and over the windows of the room with the pump. Does a really good job.
@@michaeldaigle7207 yes windows are very important. Our house was built in 1939 so it had no insulation and the windows were still the single pane aluminum framed windows. They are absolutely terrible but fortunately replacing them has been really easy. There is a huge difference with just Windows being installed alone on the temperature control in the room.
@@michaeldaigle7207 My windows were already redone recently though, I don't see why I should do those next My actual next thing on the list is the fireplace, because that seems to be the current biggest heat loss for my house.
I had a 4 head mini split installed a month ago. Even running the line sets on the exterior walls, it took them 4 days to get it all installed. So, in that case, I think the labor cost was a lot more reasonable than you’re making it out to be, especially since he had to have 2 technicians a lot of those days. A lot of the labor in the case of multiple heads is getting all those lines installed and looking nice. It’s a lot of climbing ladders and wrangling fittings and pulling vacuum. The time really adds up! That said, there was definitely some healthy profit margin being realized.
Single zones are very easy the multi zones are much harder especially because American homes weren't built with these in mind most times several hours are spent problem solving every company needs to make a profit and employees need to get paid especially since in my state you have to go to school and be licensed that coupled with the hard labor and crawling under gross crawlspaces under decks and tight disgusting attics and that is why install cost is high plus all mini splits are made in china all of them... And install done in America that's the disparity in labor cost plus the lines and line covers are insanely expensive
@@ctoddgo3074 I told the technicians not to bother with my tight crawl space and attic because they’re both an absolute pain to work in. Since I don’t have to look at the outside of my house I just had them run all of the lines on the outside. But that still had the techs going in and out, up and down my stairs and up and down ladders all day. I kinda felt bad watching them. It looked miserable. And most days it was only one guy. At least they didn’t have to slither around in fiberglass and spiders, I guess.
@@VoiceOverTrailReviews yeah it takes about 3 days with 3 guys to install a 4 head unit properly depending on the house some take less those guys where I live went to school and had training and should be compensated properly the business does make a profit and has expenses and there are other items that add up. So I took offense a little when he said hvac guys are greedy I don't own a company or set the prices but I know what it takes to install a multi head unit and to say that any company shouldn't make a profit or pay their employees for their labor is what is ruining this country honestly this channel seems knowledgeable about many things but is way off base on this one imo
If the technicians are being paid the way I think they should be paid, then it’s easy to imagine 3 guys over three days plus the cost of benefits and other overhead eating into the profit margins pretty quickly. The guys installing my system were working massive overtime trying to get that thing installed. I really didn’t think being quoted 12.5k for a 3 ton system seemed excessive. Plus, it’s not as if HVAC companies or techs are exactly tripping over each other for the ‘privilege’ of doing residential installations. I also think people expecting to get everything free or at discount is leading us to ruin. People’s labor is worth something to me!
@@VoiceOverTrailReviews That was not the point tho, the point was that old gen. systems are quoted much cheaper, despite not being more complex tech-wise. It suggests oligopolies and vested interest, where new tech is priced out only because it requires new skills and tools to acquire and there is an early adopters premium to be paid by those who care.
Hi there! Nice video! Back in engineering school, when I first learnt about heat pumps, I was shocked by their real potential. So much so that I qualified them the closest thing to magic that I knew of. Thermodynamics were not so easy to master but the feeling to steal heat was sooooo good. I have to say, it does make some air noise in the house. At first, I was concerned but after a week my brain just added it to the background noises of my place. So it is not so bad in the end. The outside unit inverter system has soft start and is not as noisy as the legacy AC bang/bang compressor design that's for sure. I guess the power factor is better too so it is nicer for the grid and easier to feed with a solar inverter. In France, reversible inverter models are quite common. I'm surprised that in the US you still have mostly only cooling ones... We however have strict regulations an only qualified technicians can deal with refrigerant loadings/unloadings. You can still do a full DIY install if you get precharged units and lines with special sealed fittings that rupture when tightened. Sad part: A lot of places have a so called "landscape harmony to preserve" which here in France, depending on locations, has the power to make you undo whatever is considered ugly! If you are within 500m of a nice looking centuries old building (includes bell towers, ruins, canals...) you'd better check about that. I never noticed but almost every village here is concerned. That's the cost of a very nice looking country-side I'd say! I Had to spend 200€ to get this special wooden box to hid my outside unit. It is well designed for air flow but the engineer in me is internally shouting "wtf! let it breath!". Authorities found it nice-looking which is great as I don't want to pick up a fight that i'll certainly loose. If i can easily hid the outside unit in my case this is not possible for everyone which is a bit unfair. Do you have such tight regulations regarding landscapes in the US? Not only local regulation or very important buildings/famous locations which are the heart of our heritage. I mean about the vicinity of any small old church or so that only local people or fan of local History know of. 500m radius is a lot as most of the people will live there in a small village. Next project: Convince our dear landscape authorities that all back solar panels are classy and discreet. Especially 400m away from this remarkable graveyard that i am apparently within sight in the winter when trees don't have their leaves. Come-on! I will surely not be allowed to cover all my south facing roof but i'll try to have at least some of it... Feels bad to have all this energy falling onto my roof and not being allowed to recover it. We keep our nice looking villages with picture-postcard castles and chapels with no evident signs whatsoever of post WWII technologies which slows down or stop the individuals willing to actively fight against global warming. I hope they will cut some slack to it at some point. To bad middle ages guys didn't put solar on their roofs... Authorities would force us to do so otherwise. Have a nice day! And remember => Entropy is the ultimate enemy.
The US Constitution starts “We the People” which means all authority comes from the citizens. Few Americans would tolerate being told “your heater is ugly… remove it”. Where I live every house has one, so it’s considered normal .
Well, am I glad I live in Australia. I paid about $600 for my Mitsubishi split A/C system, installed it myself, and it all runs on sunshine. Ok, the climate here is much like San Diego, but I originally came from Canada, so I know what it's like up there. But your presentation brought home the extent to which North Americans are chained to the existing methods of heating & cooling. It's going to take quite awhile for this to change. You are probably the most effective motivator there is at present. The people in the industry don't want to change; neither do the people who make the rules and regulations. But they have to. Especially if there's someone like you standing there beating a drum. You're not wrong about the noise issues. The outdoor unit for my bedroom A/C is less than a metre from my head when I'm in bed, with a very thin wall between. Yet I can barely hear it when it's running, even when it's going full tilt. Did I mention my hot water heat pump, that I made myself out of a dehumidifier? Ok, I had help from a friend in the refrigeration industry, but I gassed it myself with propane, and it works just fine., It needs to run for maybe an hour to make enough hot water for a shower. Rather than try to invent a complicated thermostat system, I just put a 2-hour clockwork timer in the power line to it, so I can run it whenever I need some hot water. In the summertime, I don't need the heat pump, there are 3 solar panels on the roof that are connected directly to the water heater element. The heat pump is needed in winter because there's not enough sunshine. Works for me.
First of all, i just think your content is great. I'am ac tect in Finland and heatpumps are very common here (i have two in my house). We dont really have gas lines in residental homes. Most common here in new houses, for ac is thermal heatpumps. For the older houses we instal mainly air to water heatpumps. Each system are easy to change for cooling, but its pretty standard here. Now days i work at nucreal powerplan cooling systems, but i think its funny that refigeneration works here the same... Just for larger shale 😁 Keep on the good work. Best Regards form Finland.
I'm fascinated by this series! I live in North Dakota, so I do get the occasional day where I would need something to supplement the heat pump. Currently I have a forced hot air gas furnace for winter, and I have a semi-split air conditioner: it's a saddle unit that sits over the window. Of course, my 672 square foot house isn't exactly what a lot of heating/cooling people have in mind when they design their systems. Interestingly, where I work there are heat pumps for every room. They are great because we had no air conditioning before and my side of the building was miserable. And they're great for that awkward time in spring and fall when the big boiler that heats the building is too much.
Great video -- though you missed a technology used in some high-rises (even in Chicago and Canada): water source heat pumps. Those tend to be great for summer cooling; however, unless the building installs a central heater for the water loop, they need auxiliary heat in the winter. A nice by-product of these systems is the shared water loop does let heat move between units.
A few years ago I bought and had professionally installed an air source heat-pump from Toshiba, this was 2018 ish. I chose the best heat-pump for the money I could that also had an R32 refrigerant as R410a is pretty awful. The pump and install cost me around 2000 bucks, copper and wall mount was extra at around 180 bucks together. And this is in Norway fellas, very few things are cheap here and it's illegal to install this yourself. There was a nationwide incentive with cashback for air source heat-pump installs, but that has unfortunately been removed. Still a good idea though, my apartment is around 90m^2 on the second floor of a 100 year old house that has been renovated. It's consumption during the winter season is a bit above 1000kW/h which would normally cost around 100 bucks.
There's an important factor missing from the section about insulation: embodied carbon! If the goal of reducing energy consumption is to slow/reverse climate change, you need to be careful about what materials you use. There's a lot of closed cell spray foam B-roll and that's one of the worst offenders wrt embodied carbon. Most closed cell foams use blowing agents with extremely high GWP, creating a situation where it can take >20 years to hit the GWP break-even point, assuming that your electricity supply continues emitting CO2. The cleaner your grid is, the longer the payback period. If you're on a 100% clean grid, you'll never break even! All that to say: it's important to choose carbon-sequestering insulation products like packed cellulose and fiberboard instead of carbon-emitting insulation products like foams and mineral wool!
But what you forgot to look into is the safety factor of items like Rockwall. Rockwool insulation's a.k.a. mineral wool are a lot safer during a house fire and will slow it substantially. Followed up with good building practices such as making sure your sheet rock is properly taped and mudded and you bought yourself some time to get out in a worst case scenario it also doesn't mold or have its abilities to insulate critically damaged if it gets wet.
It was really strange for me to realize people have AC's that can't switch the flow from cooling to heating... Every unit I had in the last 20+ years does this. Now I need to read up on efficiency for my next purchase.
My name is David and one year ago I moved into a home from ruffly the 1930's. One of the first upgrades we made to this h9use wich had no central heating and air was to centrally mount a heat pump system. I used your videos to do the installation with some help from the directions and other RUclipsr's. Over the last 365 days or so this is what I have observed For the space I am using this single unit in (1500ish square feet) it works wonderfully for heating and cooling the home. With a few ceiling fans we are able to move the air across the house. We have found this to be a bit of a necessity as if we do not then we end up with one or two rooms climate controlled and the others closer to the exterior temperature. The insulation did not require any special tools however I did get pipe cutters so I could shorten the distance of coper pipe. I had a service tech check it after my installation and he said it was all good. The unit runs some days all day and night in the winter with no problem thus far. I am curious to see how it handles this summers heat. That is my report of the unit and of the product/idea. I am very please and after some rewiring we will be adding insulation and I'm excited to see the effect. New windows will be last as far as insulation goes (large older odd sizes)
I've enjoyed your series on Heat Pumps! thanks. My 70s home has an oil furnace. Last fall I installed a 24k Mini Split and we heated the whole main floor with it this winter. Installed it myself for $1500 total. We also got a Tesla at the same time, last September. My electric bill went up $90 cdn a month this winter. My oil bill went down $250 a month and gasoline down by $200 a month. Huge instant savings. I think the Split will have paid for itself in 2 years and the Tesla cost me no more than a similar ICE car I would have bought anyways after selling our 14 yr old SUV - so the net cost was $0 to go to a BEV and the energy savings are all pocketed. There is one catch: my mini split is not the most efficient, and struggles to heat the home to over 68F for a week at xmas when temps were below freezing. Luckily that was the only week it was below freezing all winter, and I just ran the oil furnace for that week anyways. So there is part of the solution: DUAL FUEL in below freezing cold regions (unless you go PassivHaus!).
@@Assault0137 probably huge. I have 6 huge picture windows around my living room and kitchen which are pretty wasteful. Also over half the windows on the house are single pane! leaky doors, non insulated basement, its all pretty bad. Still the 2 ton split heats the 1500sf main floor very well except that one week at Xmas.
Weird, in my country, split type heat pumps (which we call "air conditioners") similar to the Pioneer shown in the video, are powered the other way around. You don't have to connect the external unit to the electric line, but the INTERNAL one. The internal unit powers the external one. Smaller devices (9.000 and 12.000 BTU) come with a plug and you just... plug them into a socket. 24.000+ BTU units come with naked wires that you must connect to power. I don't have a 18.000 BTU unit, so I don't know if they come with or without plugs. Also, the internal unit collects condensed water and sends it outside the house through a hose that goes along with the two insulated copper tubes and the electric cord that connects both units. All four things are wrapped together in tape. So you only have to drill one hole in the wall.
You are correct, usually the internal unit connects to power is my experience also. But recently more and more units connect to power at the external unit, which is the case with my Gree G-Tech unit. But not having power outside, the power cable runs inside the house and goes to a power outlet. So it looks exactly like the internal unit is connected to power.
My *guess* is that there may be a code requirement in the US that AC or heat pumps have to have an electrical shutoff at the outside unit. That makes sense for those big old units which occasionally catch on fire. Might also be a safety thing for repairs, since a ducted system would typically have separate shutoffs for the air handler and the compressor.
"Air conditioners": Expensive, seldom-necessary, ineffcient first-world western decadence which will doom us all. "Heat pumps": The lean, clean, green solution to a glorious future of glittering cities and happy people holding hands.
Judging by your name i would expect you to be from Latin America (Brazil here). My family works with Air conditioners for years and they always use a simple workaround to install those units with power cables on the inside unit. You just strip the cable and plug it to the internal panel who sends power to the outside unit, then you connect the cable outside to power and you're good to go. The power cable doesn't care wich side is being powered.
@@prytooblack You're right; Uruguay here 🙂 In fact, I'm very happy with the power supply on the internal unit. I just plug it into an available socket. Here, AC units up to 12.000 BTU come with "schuko" plugs, which is arguably the sturdiest and safest plug in the known universe 🙂
Very interesting and highly valuable series on heat pumps! I live in Sicily and my dad more than 20 years ago, started restoration of our old house (more than 150 years now, made with stones), and first thing he did was rebuilding the roof with 2ft of styrofoam to insulate and to lighten the building. For our heating, since we do live on a mountain where temperatures do get below freezing, he used heat pumps, and they made the system ready to get the external unit for air conditioning too. We as a family are not very keen on air conditioning, but we are now considering adding that external unit since summers are getting extremely warmer, as warm as in the Death Valley: last summer we set the European record for warmest temperature ever recorded, 48.8°C or just shy of 120°F.
It surprises me the USA market is so messed up on this subject. I had a 10kW ducted heat pump installed for a total cost of $9000 australian dollars. Into a house not built for ducting. 10kW is way over whats needed and it heats the house cheaply in winter and cools it really well in summer.
I'd really kind of like to see a retrofit system to "update" existing AC units to become Heat Pumps. Yes I realize that there ae flaws with this, but I do suspect that being able to just use the heat/cool pump through most of the year, and limit the Gas usage to those days when the heat pump gets bogged down because of icing, etc, would cut down on natural gas use at a lot of places. Even with a less than ideal duct work. Alternatively being able to do the massive heat dump of the gas furnace to get the house up to the desired temp in the morning, then maintain that temp through the day would potentially cut back on gas use as well. But we need to insulate here first.
A "Heat Pump" is an Air Conditioner. It's simply a Reverse Cycle Air Conditioner. The use of that term "Heat Pump" is what is causing Americans so much confusion. Everywhere else in the world, we don't install 2 completely separate HVAC system like is commonly done in the USA.
@@Patmorgan235Us - what I mean is that in most countries, we have been fitting Reverse Cycle Air Conditioners for about 40 years... it's not some radical latest news to us in the modern world. There is no need for a separate heater (on a different fuel) in most climates, the A/C can do it all. And if they share the air handler then the A/C unit can easily be upgraded to Reverse Cycle with Inverter. This gives the cooling efficiency gains, plus cheaper baseline heating. Just leave the big gas furnace if worried about mid-winter capacity. Just don't call it a "Heat Pump" when getting quotes, because Americans installers simply don't understand those, but they understand the term A/C just fine.
ITS THIS EASY: remove AC unit. Install heat pump unit. Done! As for backup, most have resistance heat built-in. It turns-on if the temperature drops below 5 F. Otherwise all the heat in my house comes from my heat pump .
@@electrictroy2010 It's easy to prepare to drive in the snow. Scrap the perfectly good car you've been driving all summer and buy an entirely new one with snow tires. After all it's far too expensive and time consuming to just get a new set of snow tires and wheels and go around and replace the tires you've been driving on. Note that the only thing that separates an A/C unit from a heat pump is a valve and the electronics to switch which side of the unit gets warm and which side gets cool. But hey, go get someone to extract the refrigerant, scrap the perfectly good A/C unit out and buy a whole new unit that acts as a heat pump. You're made of money. Right? No, I know you're not. So if you drive in a climate with snow, you likely have 'all season' tires that are optimized neither for snow, nor summer roads, but meet standards that suggest they are acceptable for each. And most of us are going to be stuck wasting heat by burning gas in our house when we could (at least in theory) be using a heat pump and have a much more efficient heating system that then only burns gas when the outside temps drop to a point where the heat pump efficiency goes out the window. We don't do the heat pump thing because we've got perfectly good A/C units that we dropped a bundle on and we don't see that the cost of scrapping that out to put in a heat pump will pay for itself the way putting one initially may have, but even though some of us live in a climate where a heat pump would provide a benefit, they are not generally available in our markets. And yes, I do think that a retrofit option that replaces the valve, and adds the electronics could be done, and probably for far less than buying an entirely new unit to be installed, but I also know that it's not likely to be made available unless someone gets with the local electric provider to have them get the tech assembled, and the installers on the payroll, and offer it to customers with A/C units. And even there it's not going to be an ideal solution. As noted a modern heat pump tends to be running at other than all out push the system to the limit power draw, where a retrofitted A/C unit probably will not be operating in a variable power draw mode. I know many people who can live with that if we can start seeing better than 100% efficiency.
The first rule of Heat Pump Club is: you do talk about insulation. The second rule of Heat Pump Club is: you DO talk about insulation! Third rule of Heat Pump Club: if someone yells “heat pumps aren't efficient" the fight has just begun. Fourth rule: only heat pumps for cooling AND heating.
I think the HSPF vs COP discrepancy at 24:20 is due to HSPF accounting for the occasional use of auxiliary heat aka toaster oven heat (COP=1). The COP rating on the NEEP list is accounting for the refrigerant cycle efficiency only.
It’s called resistance heating. My thermostat has an override to Not use the auxiliary resistance heat… though I’ve never seen it turn-on except below 0 degrees .
One thing you briefly touched on: WINDOWS. While we have good wall insulation, we still had the original nearly century-old single pane windows. When we replaced them a few years back we found it's literally a night-and-day difference. Before we swapped them we had a crappy evaporative cooler that would only drop the temp about 7-12°F. it got bad in the summers unless we left it on all night and let the house chill. Just replacing those windows resulted in significant temperature stability and a boost in cooling to ~20°F. When we changed over to AC back in early 2020 (sadly before your heat pump vids - that would have been worth looking into!) our electric and water bills dropped significantly. The cost difference with the financing payments equaled what we were paying for with a cooler motor running 24/7 and we're significantly more comfortable now. Good insulation pays off and you can recoup costs in only a few years.
Interesting historical note, is that in urban areas before 1920, many buildings had double pane windows. But after the 1918 pandemic, there was a Fresh Air movement and those double panes were changed to leaky single pane (like the hicks in the sticks had) for the fresh air ingress. The steam heat systems post 1920 were advised to be sized to heat the home/building on the coldest day of the year, with the windows open, and the wind blowing. This was because it was advised to sleep with the window open and people took that to just keep the windows open throughout the house. That is why so many old buildings in cities where steam heat was being installed, like NYC, force people to open the windows in the winter because of the heat output. Sure, it cost money, but it would keep the viruses from getting you.
I have a 4-way ductless mini-split and it works great. Mine's a Daikin system which I noticed wasn't on your list. The only drawback of most systems like this is you can't heat and cool at the same time. I use mine to heat my home office instead of the whole house with gas central heating and it's actually appreciably cheaper, especially right now.
Oh and due to a quirk, my system was cheaper with heating over just cooling at the VAT/sales tax was 5% with heating or 20% if just cooling, which more than covered the equipment cost difference.
I do exactly the same, also with Daikin which I have found to be efficient and importantly for me - quiet. I heat the whole place with gas CH first thing in the morning and later in the evening - using a Nest thermostat to keep it well controlled - and just the room(s) I’m in during the day. Overall cost is about 30% lower than just using gas - before the recent gas price increases.
So they make systems that can heat and cool at the same time. They are called heat recovery systems. They are more common in commercial settings but I believe LG makes one that can be used for residential. I would say though that the return on investment would be low for a house, since you are usually either all heat or all cool. Whereas a business might have a server room that always needs to be cooled and offices that need to be heated.
daikin are one of the largest firms and do great commercial kit so i wouldn't worry. you can get Heat+cool systems "3 pipe" or "4 pipe" systems but it does increase the cost and in most houses you very rarely need to do both at the same time.. so it's an edge case and you might be cheaper to have to outdoor units instead.
@@mralistair737 My Daikin system is just a multi split - can’t heat and cool at the same time, but not a problem in my home. Their indoor evaporators are attractive and quiet too
Heatpump heating is major in Japan. And recently, heatpump system called "EcoCute" is used as hot water boiler, which is used for bathing, floor heating.
I installed a Blue Ridge 2 head mini split system into my small (576sqft) home, and it was easy. My friend had a vacuum pump, and we did it all in probably 2 days of work, most of which was drilling holes in the block walls. I think all in it was less than $2500, and seems to work great. Thanks for the recommendation of a heat pump! Otherwise i would've gone with window units and space heaters lol.
I recently installed a multisplit system in my home to get some cooling on increasingly hot summer months. But getting a more efficient heating system as well was a great bonus. Coupled with my municipal heat system (that also provides endless warm water) and a ventilation system with heat reclaiming I now have a lot of fine tuning to do :)
10:45 you can also wire through the inside unit as well, it doesn't actually matter as long as you have a large enough amperage circuit. Electricity flows both ways.
I love this channel. That said, "insulate, insulate, insulate" is kinda wrong. The most important part of the equation is air sealing. You are far better off focusing on reducing air infiltration and leakage than insulating. Once you've done everything you can to reduce losses from air leakage, then you should insulate.
I did also say that this includes weatherizing, but I get your point. And then of course there's the problem of ventilation! HRVs are something I intend to cover soon.
@@TechnologyConnections a video about HRVs and ERVs would be great. I'm in the high performance building industry and it's a very misunderstood part of building science. Ventilation is really coming into it's own now with integration of self balancing systems and "home run" designs like what Zehnder is offering. It'd be great to address the "buildings need to breath" controversy!
The biggy is still insulation after draught proofing. My dad refuses to insulate the loft "because it looks bad" This being said, heat pumps aren't necessarily cost saving if your heating is powered by natural gas. It's cleaner and greener, sure but gas (in the UK at least) is still 4 to 5 times cheaper than electricity even with current prices . I've not seen any heat pumps that have an average COP of 5+ over the year. I refuse to get AC even as our summers get warmer, because Holy shit that's expensive The other biggy is that hear pumps are at least £8K here for an ASHP
It would be cool if the building could introduce a little fresh air during the optimal time of day when the temperature differential was at a minimum. I've always wondered how we don't eventually suffocate indoors sometimes, but I guess it's just not sealed like a space ship, plus opening doors. But still, I know there have been studies about indoor CO2 levels and productivity in office buildings, so it's something to think about.
but didn't the research come out that suggests sealed homes may be not very good for the well being of the occupants and the structure? I don't remember the specifics, just that it might have been a thing.
44:00 This is literally what my dad did to deal with the excess heat in my bedroom as a teenager. Didn't put a unit in the window, just cut a unit-shaped hole in the wall, crammed it through that hole and filled the border with foam followed by wood trim.
Apologies for the video glitches near the end! This video really didn't want to get exported correctly...
(edit) Oh, also, this is the last video on heat pumps, I swear! OK, well the last for a solid while...
I was wondering about that! I thought it was because I was watching at 1.5x speed.
I thought they were some kind of hidden clues, I moved frame by frame to see if they were hiding something lol
NO!
Never end pumping for heat pumps.
MORE HEAT PUMPS!
Still being in the first 15 seconds, I am semi-hoping for a, “…and to end this series, we’re going to talk about latent heat and the refrigeration cycle. “
From the man that brought you 30 minutes on dishwashers, enjoy 46 minutes on heat pumps 😂 I love this channel
Another 46 minutes, on top of the previous videos which were each around 40 minutes themselves.
I feel like I've watched over an hour of quality dishwasher and dishwasher related connect from this gentleman.
And toasters, space heaters, fans, etc. And CEDs were particularly interesting and involved.
46 minutes on top of the ...2 or 3? other videos on the topic.
Not to forget the entire series of neat media formats ranging from vinel, laserdiscs, cd’s, dvd’s, casette tapes, betamax vs vhs and that weird format I forgot the name that’s a vinel for video.
Giving people enthusiasm and knowledge is terrific, but giving people *actionable* info and a path forward that they can follow is outstanding and can change the world. 👍
holy cow, I didn't expect to see DeviantOllam on this channel
@@nathanstautzenberger8381 I do show up in various places 😉👍
@@DeviantOllam especially elevators and server rooms.🤣
didn't expect to see Deviant here lol
I love when I find the Dev in a place I frequent. Keep being awesome dude.
Thanks to the resources you present here, I was able to:
1) compare my natural gas and electricity costs directly in kWh to find the breakeven CoP (3).
3) use historical weather data for my location to see that my winter temps are above 17 degrees Fahrenheit ~100% of the time.
2) use the NEEP list to find multiple heat pump models with CoP > 4 at 17 degrees Fahrenheit.
Now I know that replacing my natural gas furnace with ductless mini-splits will decrease my heating costs. Thanks Technology Person!
Now you have to calculate after how many years/decades this will pay.
@@whuzzzup Same happened with economical/hybrid cars.. and those calculations have gone out the window with incredible increases in LNP and Petrol prices. It pays to be ahead of the curve sometimes.
@@freejulianassange537 Also, and I know this is some privilege speaking, but if you have the money to make the switch return on investment isn't really all you should care about. Honestly it doesn't even need to be the highest thing on the list of things you care about. The benefit to society and the planet are externalized costs that we forget far too easily.
@@whuzzzup kind of a mute point if you need a new system anyways. Taking out a perfectly good work furnace would change the argument.
@@Trainwreck1123 I can see why you're a fan of this channel. Well met. 8)
Your comments on contractor price gouging are spot on. My municipality offered a $1,000 rebate for installing a hot water heat pump last year but you had to choose from their list of 16 installers. Each one of the first few installers quoted between $5,000 and $6500. By the time I contacted 6 of these contractors I realized this is just a scam to have the $1000 handed over to the installer plus they are gouging beyond that. I ended up calling a regular plumber who was not familiar with heat pumps. together we went through the install procedure and he installed it perfectly at $2,200. Most of that was for running the 22V electric since I previously had gas only in that corner. Even without the rebate it was still way cheaper than using those who manipulate government incentive programs. Plus I always wanted a couple of 110V electric outlets in that corner of the garage and he ran lines for those as well (included in the $2,200). So buyer beware in areas where you must use contractors from a specific list (please shop outside the list to get the real price)
Here in Australia the use of reversible heat-pumps is very common so those videos always give me a good laugh, we've got a three decade old Carrier unit and some other modern high efficiency Mitsubishis (split systems are very common here) however it doesn't get all that cold here but the more southern states do rely on gas heating a lot more than up north.
About a decade ago the government also subsidized insulation installation for 1.2 million homes for AU$1.5 billion (approx. one B-2 Spirit stealth bomber), the program has since saved >100 TWh of electricity, pushed back the growth trend of natural gas consumption by two years and saved an equivalent 27 million tonnes of CO2.
Murica: but think how many B2s we could buy!
now if you could just end the total tyranny that same government has forced on you by taking your guns and arresting old ladies and beating people for not wearing face diapers.
@@WayStedYou lowering global co2 emissions by destroying homes and taking lives in other countries, good thinking /sarcasm
But did they insulate RENTAL properties? Here in USA, none of the programs reach renters, only home OWNERS. That traps renters in a cycle of high bills on top of high rents, which together, prevent many from ever getting to buy their own home.
Here's something to laugh at - the internet situation in Australia. I watched a documentary on why it's such a mess and how it got there. Very similar as how the Americans got stuck with sub par HVACs. Except Australians got shafted by their government and not by free market. As it is usually the case with Ausies.
I'm an HVAC design engineer and I 100% approve this message. Thank you for spreading the word.
Sacker987 - You might be interested in my other comment, which is about engineering for HVAC and more: ruclips.net/video/43XKfuptnik/видео.html&lc=Ugz2aofWigb0Rk9LR_N4AaABAg
Because it improves sales and service fees. But not actually, because it would create a safe heating source from an efficient local energy storage. It's unreliable, maybe usable as a 2nd unit, for cooling AND optional heating, but not as a main unit
The electrical grid will be even less reliable if cars and heating also relied on it and increase the demand 5-8 times.
Oh look! Someone in HVAC advocating for guaranteed government subsidies. Who woulda thunk it.
I mean, it's not like government subsidies caused the medical care and education costs to increase 7 times more than inflation or anything. I mean, what could go wrong???
Oh look! Someone in HVAC advocating for guaranteed government subsidies. Who woulda thunk it.
I mean, it's not like government subsidies caused the medical care and education costs to increase 7 times more than inflation or anything. I mean, what could go wrong???
@@pteppig do you have a source for the demand being 500-800% higher?
I am here for this heat pump content. It's hot! (Get it?). Pump it out! (Ok, I'll show myself out...)
I should hope you realise that this kind of offense to the english language is criminal 😂
yeah get out
Alright we're revoking your license! Only legal puns from now on Mr.!
Oh hey Legal eagle you're here!!! Hi Legal Eagle!!!
Keep it up and Ill see YOU in court.
We had a ducted "multi-split" system retrofitted last year, upgraded from a ancient 80+ gas furnace. Not looking back - apart from being orders of magnitude more efficient, it's also a lot quieter and more comfortable as it keeps the temperature far more constant.
Even in CA where such a system is an absolute no-brainer, I was shocked how ignorant or even hostile towards heat pumps some HVAC contractors are. One tech claimed that they are some newfangled technology that "always breaks", another gave us offers for gas and hybrid systems even though I was very clear about wanting to ditch natural gas.
Imagine what we could achieve if just a fraction of the $30+ billion the US wastes annually to subsidize fossil fuels was spent on upgrading insulation and HVAC systems. Stay on your soap box, Alec!
New-fangled??? I’ve had a heat pump since the 1980s. They have
more real-world development than the EVs California loves to push
$15,000 IN SAN DIEGO is insane. I would buy the unit wholesale for $3000. Then tell the HVAC company “I already have the heat pump. Just install it please.”
I do that with car dealerships too: I supply the oil & filter, and they charge $15 labor. It saves money
.
I just bought 4 mini splits off Amazon for about 4k. Definitely better to buy it yourself and install yourself/hire a hvac guy to install.
Also what's the $30B? I haven't heard that number before.
@@parker9012The true number is much, much more - wrecking the planet is incredibly profitable 🤮
Annual direct producer subsidies (mostly in the form of tax breaks) in the US at federal and state level total $20 billion according to a 2015 study by Oil Change International.
On top of that, there are $14 billion in consumption subsidies (Reporting by several reputable news outlets, although I couldn't find the primary source for that number).
This doesn't even include all the indirect subsidies, like military operations to secure oil or health care costs due to pollution.
Of course all of the above pales in comparison to the economic impact of heatwaves, floods, droughts, wildfires, and sea level rise caused by fossil fuels...
Persistent ignorance is an illness.
As an HVAC technician of roughly 20 years, seeing the SEER rating of these new units vs. what we were putting in back in the early 90's.. just awesome. Half the amperage and 300% more heat/cooling compared to some equipment. Insulentives has to be the best description of rebates lol.
And yes they're easy to install, even multi head units. But give troubleshooting them a shot.. Experience in our trade saves time there, and the better quality the unit, the less chance of expensive service calls later. Manual and tech support are almost always necessary.
Has the efficiency at low temperatures and outside unit noise improved? If you live in Canada, having temperatures below -30°C isn't unusual and the colder the weather, the more the heat pump struggles to do its job.
@@AgentSmith911 which is basically logic. Which is why i still use a regular electric heater, battery powered. And them batteries charge themselves with solarpower etc.
Might be a bit less efficient, but the heater heats.
Thank you for your work!
Hybrid water heater units are almost nowhere to be seen in Florida... Lol.
@@AgentSmith911 most definitely, it’s not even close
I worked in HVAC for over a decade, mostly doing residential install and service. I have been disgusted by the experiences of friends family members in recent years as the large companies now dominating the local region are obviously engaged in serious price-gouging *and* seem to have a policy to refuse to repair existing units in order to encourage easy, high-profit replacements.
And this was true even *before* the economic woes of the 2020's. I'm sure that it's even worse today. Get as many quotes as practical and look up equipment prices on your own to be as informed as possible. While small, fly-by-night companies might be unlicensed scammers, experience suggests that the large companies in my area are doing most of the scamming and fraud.
Sadly thats the nature of capitalism, especially this late. Bigger companies push out or buy up the few honest smaller businesses and then gouge the price as much as they can get away with
Common practice with lots of "techy" things these days. Expensive, lackluster support, and once it's out of warranty the service is nearly non-existent.... "Simply" but a new one.
That is exactly why we do everything ourselves. We bought our own heat pumps and we're installing those guys. We already have four installed and we're putting up another two this week. And I'm licensed cuz I went ahead and took the HVAC test to get my license just to do my own work and be able to order any more coolant I might need.
We got a price quote for Windows and it's going to be $14,000. We went to home Depot and we've ordered all of our windows and it cost us $3,000 for all the windows and we're installing them ourselves one by one we've already gotten three done.
We just finished insulating the attic ourselves and we are almost done insulating the walls because our house was built in 1939 and whoever remodeled it right before we bought it didn't even bother to put in insulation.
Yeah we always do things ourselves cuz it's way too expensive to have someone else do it
The scum bags at Home Depot quoted me $12,000 to replace ONE 3 ton heat pump. I took HVAC repair in high school, I laughed in the guy's face and sent him out the door...."Don't worry, you can put it on your Home Depot credit card".
@@paulstaf lol. Wow. We bought a 3 ton mini split with 3 indoor units for $3,000 and we are installing it ourselves this week. Far less labor than running ductwork.
The vacuum pump, gauges, and associated tools cost me about $700, but that's still a lot less than $12,000, and I plan on installing more mini splits and also using them for car a/c repair.
Here in Norway heatpumps are mostly the norm if you're looking to upgrade your home in terms of heating. It gets cold here, and -12C in winter is common even along the coast, and inland it can get down to -30C, though it usually stops at -20C. Most homes now have heatpumps, it's rare to see one without it.
We live in a newer home that already had a heatpump when we moved in, but it broke down after aproximately 20years of faithful service(and that had to do with bad maintenance), so just a couple months after we moved in it had to be replaced. The cost of ripping out the old one and installing a new one(both indoor and outdoor) came to 30 000 nok, which equals to approx. 3500 american dollars. And that was both the job and the price of the new system. So the price you guys have over there is outrageous, you shouldn't have to file for a loan to fix your heating, that's stupid.
We've not had a single issue with heating this winter, though it crept down to -20C. I also have friends that live in houses as old as 300 years(yes, their house is older than the US), and with a heat pump installed, no insulation upgrade, and a woodstove, it keeps their house way above freezing without issue. They're planning on getting in some new insulation this summer, and are looking forward to their heat pump being more efficient because of it. Their heating and woodbills have majorly decreased after the heatpump got installed.
So greetings from the arctic circle, heatpumps works here too.
Bless this comment, needs to be signal boosted.
That's about the same temperature as where I live in Canada! If only the plumbing industry over here would catch up... 😑
Yeah, but heat pump systems drop in efficiency as outdoor ambient drops - particularly when below freezing… So, in very cold regions here in the US, cost per BTU is less for 95% gas furnaces than heat pumps… Almost by as much as 50% depending on relative cost of each… Nothing against heat pumps; I live in Phoenix, Arizona where our winters are rarely below 2-3 Celsius so I prefer heat pumps as they don’t dry out the air like furnaces do and cost to run a heat pump won’t be significantly more, if at all, than gas…
@@EarlHayward We use ground source heat pumps as underground temps are virtually constant.
@@EarlHayward I already saw this exact comment from this exact user... And in that "but sometimes" scenario, well, gas would be more efficient for heating for... I don't know, less than 10% of the time? Heat pumps are still worth it. Really worth it. Yes, for real.
That sound at 38:06 is... uncomfortably accurate. Nice voice acting!
Great video. I do wish I'd have known more to research options in my area prior to installing a new furnace last winter (old one bit the dust), but this does have me hopeful that once that one dies in a decade or so, heat pumps will be an incredible option.
That was the best part of the video. Also I hope someone makes a meme out of it.
I feel like that every time he posts about heat pumps. A couple years into the current system, and sure it's dual stage, but I still sometimes feel like I got scammed...
The fact that he gets the pitch just about right baffles me the most.
I was hoping we'd see a bunch of worse attempts in the bloopers...
@@Daryl5765 Or just some practice attempts! That was a SHOCKINGLY accurate reproduction.
5:00 I'm reminded of the topic of incentive Nudges as policy - in England(? I could be forgetting details) they really wanted people to insulate their old homes. Tried all the things, carrot and stick. Very few takers. It wasn't until the policymakers examined the pain points of insulating an old house that they realized that it was all well and good to offer cheap/free insulation but most people were reluctant because they would have to clean out their attic full of storage. Instead of paying for insulation, they started offering an attic clean out service (plus insulation) and suddenly the adoption skyrocketed. If someone offered me 'nebulous future utility savings but I had to do physical work' I probably would pass...but if they offered to clean my house and give me nebulous savings...I'd be on board.
It’s sadly pathetic that people are too LAZY to clean their own homes.
@@electrictroy2010 Its no so one sided. In older homes usually live older people - so for them its literal pain to clean. And they have to pay someone to do it, so to invite a stranger in their home, so it becomes a whole thing. Or its younger people but they are working mon/fri and dont want to spend their only free weekend to do more work. The insulation is free, but to get it you must work to get it. So its not really free. And savings are very...abstract. Tell them EXACLTY how much less they will pay for heat and people will be more willing.
Australia had rebates on roofing insulation installing to help with more keep housing cold
@@alexforce9 And beyond that, a lot of attic storage is stuff there isn't room for anywhere else, shoved up in a storage space with no floor- it's awkward to get at, and may contain a large amount of items that you don't wannt to have in the house around children and so on (whether it's a set of saws or your bondage equipment), and may be catastrophically dusty as a result of you being unable to properly clean up there (all the items in my old attic were around the trap-door, because it didn't have a floor- the ceiling would hold boxes of xmas decorations well enough, but it certainly wouldn't have supported me whilst i tried to hoover)
@@electrictroy2010I for one dont find the idea of emptying a primary storage space, having to find a temporary place for it all to clutter up the house, then putting it all back once the insulation is installed for nebulous savings because the government asked nicely very enticing.
If you have to use the condensate-pump method for getting rid of your indoor unit's condensation, you'll want to keep an eye on it. Make sure there's a switch installed (AND FUNCTIONING) that shuts off power to the ENTIRE SYSTEM if the pump's collection container fills up.
My system had such a switch, but that switch failed in the closed position. The condensate pump failed. The collection container filled up. And kept going. And going. And going...
Insurance doesn't cover water damage from broken condensate pumps. Ask me how I know.
How do you know?
you only need that if the condensate needs to go up. and indoor units dont create condensation during heat mode, that happens outside.
Yep, when I got my dual zone mini-split in I initially suggested a location that would need a condensate pump. The install planning guy basically told me they refuse to do installs that require pumps because of the likelihood of eventual failure.
We figured out a spot for the living room unit where they could run a drain line down the wall, across the basement ceiling and then into a floor drain without needing a pump.
And if you use a container to collect the condensed water make sure that it can overflow without restrictions, moreso if you have your indoor unit above your bed. Ask me how I know.
@@dexter2811 first I want to know what happens if I don't do that.
Thanks to people like you, I found the confidence to install a 4 zone mini split in my house-by myself- and just finished yesterday (aside from some cleanup work), and it seems to be working brilliantly.
While his confidence building may be nice I would never take these types of videos as "instructional" enough to actually complete a job like that.... Might be enough to call someone and get it done finally but definitely feel like using him as a guide would be ill advised.
I suspect he would DEFINITELY want you finding out much better directions than the surface level descriptions he provides here.
@@TJ.85 "people like you" ... I'm sure he went to some more specific RUclips videos for the installation
Daniel Higgs congrats!! Hope it’s still working well.
$15,000 IN SAN DIEGO is insane. I would buy the unit wholesale for $3000. Then tell the HVAC company “I already have the heat pump. Just install it please.”
I do that with car dealerships too: I supply the oil & filter, and they charge $15 labor. It saves money
.
@@felixmakesart so far so good, and at about 6k with me doing the labor isn’t a bad deal. Local HVAC place quoted almost 18k
I bought a 5 way heat pump last year after watching your previous videos. It has been an absolute game changer for us. We previously only had baseboard heating and window units. Now we have cheaper heat and silent ac. The pump outside is quiet, I never notice it. As a bonus it is located the side of the house that is unseen and unheard.
That may have been the best impression of a condenser starting up that I've ever heard. You've got some good info here. We are currently building a new house in Niles, IL and I really geeked out on the HVAC system. 96% two stage gas furnace, 18seer two stage heat pump, zoned duct system, and in-floor hydronic to boot. Thermostats are programmed to use gas equipment at lower outdoor temps and the heat pump when it is more mild. With 6kw of solar on the roof and gas rates increasing lately, I may end up pushing that threshold temp lower as long as the HP efficiency remains decent..
I've done the entire installation myself (I'm a contractor) except for connecting the lineset and charging the system. I basically had to 'trick' my HVAC guy into thinking he was charging a standard a/c unit by not springing it on him that it was a heat pump until he arrived. Pretty sure he's still not happy about it (the charging process is exactly the same). Every HVAC contractor I have discussed the subject with around here have scoffed at the idea of a heat pump.
Living in MT and my wife is in HVAC, she thinks I am dumb for even considering a heat pump. Our house had the boiler run for only a few hours each day most of the winter.
You've done the right thing!
@@baills5694 Was it oil fired? In my area, the city has naturalgas but the areas outside the city don't have the piping for it and so they all run with oil. It's a huge waste of oil, IMHO.
Here in Aotearoa it gets so cold that you are legally required to insulate the pipes inside your house for risk of them freezing and bursting.
I know people who grow pine (the cheapest wood here, by far) who heat their homes with a heat pump.
It's archaic to think that refrigeration technology is so far behind that we can't use it to heat a home in 2022.. I installed a heat pump hot water cylinder only 3 days ago in a city nicknamed 'windy wellington' because the weather is so bad...
@@baills5694 Oh jeez, in a state where the average low is only around freezing... I thought the states were supposed to be the forward thinkers when it comes to tech... :/
I actually work in HVAC direct to consumer sales. I completely agree with you! Heat pumps are fantastic for people who don't need a ton of heat, and are reasonable for people even in higher latitudes so long as their home is properly insulated.
Also, installers are sometimes extremely greedy. We look at real costs and almost always sell at lower than our competitors. I wish more companies would be honest and reasonable in their pricing.
Do you have any suggestions for finding less greedy installers? Ours was fairly confident that heat pumps were a waste of money in Southwest Ohio, and they wanted an extra $12,500 to install the heat pump condenser and matching furnace (total cost $19,500). I know labor isn't cheap, but following the 30% material cost rule of thumb shouldn't that be almost half the price? Maybe the problem is they exclusively install Trane equipment.
...and that's how Capitalism _should_ work: if one provider charges too much, in comes a competitor to undercut them. I only comment this because another user commented that overcharging is actually how Capitalism works, but usually it's Government that prevents competition from naturally controlling prices.
Installers also know that some states give fat rebates... I got a 4500 dollar rebate in MA... The installer knows this! All of them do. They mention it while they are giving their quotes. I'm SURE they feel entitled to a piece of that.
@@Matt-dk3wl That and deals like if you only sell X, we will give you x% off the constructor prices.
as a salesperson you should know that the required heat has no bearing on the abillity to install a heat pump. talk like "you need insulation otherwise you can install a heat pump because they dont generate enough heat" is bullshit. i work with heat pumps that range well into the megawatt range on a daily basis that run as replacements for gas boilers in large commercial buildings. the ecomomics scale with consumption. the more energy you need the more money you save. its always more economical to first install a heat pump and use the funds you save to improve your insulation.
Can't wait for the Pioneer Minisplits to arrive to convert my whole house, I will document the installation and do two full reviews. Hopefully get even more people into the Mini-split game. The "Audiophile" angle is a yet unexplored one. These things are quiet and the humidity mitigation is going to make my basement a joy to work and play.
EDIT: I called an HVAC company to quote a swap for my two 3.5 tonne AC units. They wanted $23.8k for the swap. The outdoor units alone by Bosch are over $5k each. So that is why I am going with Pioneer and individual splits.
What state do you live in?
Jesus
Splits make a LOT of sense, compared to a ducted system. So much more power-efficient to just heat what areas you need, and not have all the losses in the ductwork. Also, having splits means that you can size them to heat/cool FAST, rather than having to leave everything running 24/7.
I'm in Australia and there is no need to cool bedrooms *AT ALL* during the daytime. Using splits you can fire them up 10-15 minutes before bedtime, and the room is cool and ready to go. If a room isn't being used, just shut the door and leave the A/C off.
PS: Americans: To prevent getting raped by installers, stop calling them "heat pumps". Just call them Air Conditioners, don't even tell the installers that they are Reverse Cycle.
@@johncoops6897 Can't you do this with zoning and a central unit?
@@JeffKubel - not with any form of energy efficiency. Zoning is literally just blocking off the vents to a certain area, let's say the bedrooms. You are still running a massive A/C system outside, you just aren't utilizing it's full capacity.
So, let's say you have 5 bedrooms and only one of them is occupied, what do you do? Heat all the bedrooms, or not switch on that zone? And with zoning, each room doesn't get individual temperature control, eh ? Big central systems cannot cope with that - unless they use a very inefficient system called "reheat" where they heat/cool to suit the lowest temperature in all zones, then use resistive heating in a smaller zone's air-handler to make just that particular area warmer.
Furthermore, ducted and zoned systems are usually undersized and designed to be run continuously. So if had the bedroom zone disabled and suddenly someone wanted to use a bedroom, you have to enable the A/C for that zone, and then wait quite a long time for it to bring the entire large zone to target temperature. Most people end up just leaving the whole house A/C enabled the whole time, which is extremely wasteful.
One of the biggest advantages of split systems is to NOT have a huge A/C unit, but instead have a number of small units that you only enable if and when you need them.
For example, right now there is only me here in the house. 2 stories, 4 bedrooms and only one person. A zoned central system cannot cope with just heating/cooling the room(s) that I am actually using.
I hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain in a youtube comment. I have worked for a long time in the energy efficiency industry and these concepts are often difficult for people to grasp.
I installed an 18,000 BTU mini-split in my uncle's "summer" cabin a couple years ago. They wanted it mainly for the air conditioning but the efficient heating capability has surprised them and allowed them to easily extend their stay both earlier in spring and later into the fall. When I saw the numbers on these latest generation of units I was surprised and impressed. Unfortunately the particular unit I want for _my_ place has been on backorder for months or else I would have been able to heat with that this past winter, which would almost have paid for itself in one year just with the energy savings.
Curious to know what model you chose.
Refrigeration Cycle Connections!!! I'd watch a hundred more videos on this topic. What are the different gasses used and what are their boiling points! Would refrigerators work more efficiently with an outside pump??
Yes would love a video that covers various gasses used, charts of efficiency by temperature, and review of various equipment. Please keep these coming! Thanks!
@@Mushaz Efficiency can vaguely be judged by PT curves. The work is put in at the compressor so a refrigerant that requires more pressure to reach that temp would be less efficient. Manufacturers compensate for this by improving efficiency in other areas to counteract this. There are other measures of efficiency like COP and heat ab- and adsorption, but I wouldnt mind seeing a video on that.
The problem here is he is simply too focused on his own area. In my area, steam heat is common as is the 75 plus year old rowhome. Some of the rowhomes are so old, they go back before the turn of the 20th century.
Many of the homes in my area were serviced by central steam heat and that still exists in some parts of my city (Philadelphia).
Retrofitting insulation is not particularly easy or even possible. Running duct work is not possible. Steam heat uses only 1 pipe (steam rises gets to the radiators, condenses and falls back down the same pipe it rose in) and so hot water heat is not possible. It would be MAJOR construction to tear out the plaster walls to get to the pipes.
Outside of the city, nobody has natural gas, they have oil tanks. Oil fluctuates and heat pumps would probably be better than the oil.
NOBODY is going to dump thousands of dollars in a completely new system for some abstraction like reduced co2
Efficiency is greatest when the difference in temperature is smallest. So if its colder outside than in then fridges would be more effficient with a vent.... But then youre frowing away all the 'free' heat!
I've been wondering for a while why we can't get installable fridges with the radiator outside, then
i think, oh, they probably count the extra heat as heating for the kitchen.
I'm very impressed by your air conditioner startup noise. That was convincing! How long did you have to practice it?
Not gonna lie, I suspect he is actually a compressor now
Yea I wondered the same. That was like professional mouth sound effect guy quality.
I thought the same thing haha
I came to comments just to say this too!
Time stamp?
This whole series on heat pumps is amazing and a great learning experience as a new homeowner, but the spot on a/c unit impression at 38:05 was phenomenal.
my heat pump does that.
That was an astonishingly accurate impression of a fixed-speed compressor start.
With all the emphasis on minisplit systems, I'd recommend doing some videos on heat exchange air vents for bringing in fresh outside air without losing your toasty heat.
It's nice having a tightly insulated home but that also prevents CO2 and other nasties from working their way out.
If you watch the Build Show channel, (he's a custom home buklder) but he geeks out on air handling, including heat exchangers and the like. Good stuff! And good suggestion!
nooooooo mooooore!
Yeah, after getting a co2 sensor and seeing the correlations... I'm planning on getting an ERV hopefully later this year.
There are even heat pump air exchangers. Those are awesome!
@@HyperVectra No, more! 8)
I’m starting to think you quite like these heat pumps
What is a heat pump if not the heart of the home? I just hope Alec isn't asked to attend to a malfunctioning one on his next flight.
Many rental apartment buildings in NYC have "heating included," meaning there's centralized boilers feeding radiators that you have little control over. I used to live on the highest floor, and my room was so hot, that I had to spend the entire winter with my windows open. This is a common story when the tenant of a space cannot easily control the temperature of their space. Very wasteful.
Hot in the summer, Hot in the winter. . . I lived it. No matter how much you turned the valve to close it, it was always hot.
I lived in a similar old building in Detroit. It’s very very cold there but our windows were wide open. The bathroom became quite an impressive sauna when showering, so that was a bonus!
That seems like a tremendously naive design that only made sense before we had cheap electronics. Especially if boilers large enough to heat the building can be built with variable output. Then you could maybe have per-apartment thermostats control valves that admit the hot water into a particular apartment's radiators, and linked up so that the boiler only puts as much energy into the water as is actually needed to serve demand.
The upside is that if you have all the windows open maybe the airflow is better, but I can't help thinking there's better ways to do that (maybe not as retrofittable though; it's not like solenoid valves are big).
LANDLORDS ARE DUMB. Not news. My apartment has the thermostat locked behind a vent. While I can unscrew the cover, wouldn’t it make more sense to mount the control on the wall? Then the renter could change the temperature.
But the landlord doesn’t want me setting my own temp (even though I pay the electric bill separately)
@@electrictroy2010 do it anyway.
I am also experiencing huge HVAC markups with installing my Mitsubishi system (ducted air handler heat pump in the midwest). The markup was 2-3x the actual equipment cost difference compared to the low efficiency system they were pushing. Keep up the good work, you have quickly become one of my favorite channels.
It's good to see people talking about this and demystifying it. If word gets out perhaps some installers can begin to make big inroads into their competition by charging fair rates for this technology and undercutting the sharks.
Here in the UK anything with refrigerant costs a fortune due to all the regulations. Have you taken into account the pipes and refrigerant in the equipment cost ?
We typically pay more for the refrigerant gas than for the unit we put it in, and the copper pipe isn't cheap either.
Funny story: your first heat pump video was published just weeks after a had a 210' trench excavated around my house and yard in order to heat the shop behind the house. I also trenched 100' around the other side of the house for power. If I had seen it first, or otherwise learned of heat pumps first, I could have skipped that gas line trench and all the work to fix the yard. Hopefully others learn first. Even though I have the gas line and furnace installed my heat pump is arriving next week. Hopefully solar will be in within a year.
There are also "geothermal" heat pumps that require excavation. The pipes are put a meter (3-4 feet?) below the ground where the temperature is already constant and above freezing, which makes the system more efficient
Not to mention all the trenching for power could probably have been used for a loop on that lol.
Just want to say, I really enjoy the random stock video selection for the VO segment at 32:46.
A lot of older homes in my area (central Arizona) have AC+Furnace, because that's just what they were designed for. My home was converted at some point from Cooler+Furnace to Heat Pump and I couldn't be happier. We had to replace the unit at the beginning of 2020 -- $15,000 for a 18 SEER 3.5t 2-stage unit plus new soft ducts to the extreme ends of the house. It was pretty painful but we need AC in Arizona as much as you need heat in Illinois. It sucks getting taken along for a ride on something that's so important to your living.
$15,000 INSTALL is insane. I would buy the unit wholesale for $3000. Then tell the HVAC company “I already have the heat pump. Just install it please.”
I do that with car dealerships too: I supply the oil & filter, and they charge $15 labor. It saves money
.
@@electrictroy2010 hvac guy here, nobody worth their salt is gonna install your used unit or warranty it. It's not a slight against you, it's that nobody wants to waste their time making half the money they could be making (markup on parts is sometimes the ONLY profit some companies budget into their jobs) and nobody wants to be tied to a unit that they didn't order and spec out because the warranty process for that can be a nightmare and a contractor's bond is on the line in most cases. Just the way it is unfortunately.
I also used to be an auto mechanic, and I'm very VERY surprised you found an actual dealership that'll do an oil change for you using oil and a filter you provided and only charge labor. You must live in a small town because around here (phx) they'd tell you to take a hike. Quick lube is big money especially with the techs doing a multi point inspection and writing up everything they can to try and get some work.
I think that the part where you explained “why insulation is better than heat pumps” can be summarized with this thought experiment :
If you’re filling a bucket with water from the tap, and that the bucket have holes in it.
Do you try to get a bigger tap to fill the bucket faster,
or do you try and fix the most amount of leaks?
Sigh. Our central AC died last year and I would have loved to replace it with a heat pump but based on everything you've said it sounds like it probably won't be doable right now. The house is 132 years old and has exposed brick in a couple of rooms. In order to insulate it properly we'd probably have to renovate the entire thing. And the upfront cost is just... phew. Funny enough our neighbors got a heat pump last year, one of the Carrier mini splits, and all he had to say about it was "we overpaid".
I'll have to really crunch the numbers and make sure, but dang, I'm disappointed. Not by you, just by reality, as usual - this is exactly the kind of info I needed right now and I thank you for all of your efforts here 💙
It's shameful! We are so set up to have heat pumps, but domestic availability is generally quite crap and the HVAC trade really likes to gouge for mini-splits. There are some issues that will need to be solved on a case-by-case basis, for sure, but Asia has innovated some amazingly flexible equipment - if only Carrier, Lennox, York etc. would kick into gear and start copying their successes.
actually old houses are fine to use a heat pump UNLESS there has been zero upgrades done in the past 50 years but at that point you might want to invest in some double glazing first. please get this basic concept to get your mindset correct: insulation (or lack thereof) only tells you how much energy you need to heat your home, not how to get said heat into the home. your home does not care if the kW's come from a heat pump or a gas furnace, heat is heat. the only thing you want to focus on is keeping the water temperatures (if you use radiators) as low as possible. i have converted dozens of very old homes over the years. not once have i failed in making the home gas-free.
As long as you can get into the ceiling you can do it yourself and it's really not that hard. We've already installed four in our house ourselves and we're working on another one this week. If your house is all brick you just definitely have to go up through the ceiling instead of through the wall like we've done but it's definitely doable yourself.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld we are putting insulation into our walls and our ceiling because our house was built in 39 has no insulation at all. It makes a huge difference to have the insulation. But yeah heat pumps would have worked without insulation but they definitely use far less electricity when the house is properly insulated. The difference was night and day when we finished our attic last week. So much cooler.
@@jkfeatherranch make no mistaker. insulation helps ofcourse. but you would have need to spend the same energy to heat it with gas or past hopes and dreams as you would with a heat pump. the bottom line on the amount of energy you need does not change. you would also save the same amount if you would only insulate and keep the existing system.
Technology Connections has to now be a force for good in the consumer energy space, mere months after conquering "Big Dishwashing" capsules.
Keep preaching anti-"but sometimes", Alec.
With my whole house Carrier Infinity Heat pump, I can stand right next to it when it's at full bore and have a conversation. It's an amazing unit and a shame that more people don't get on board. Even when I specifically told the HVAC company that I wanted a heat pump they looked at me as if I was some crazy person. But now I am laughing all the way to the bank.
As someone in the HVAC industry, I enjoy this quite a bit. Please continue making videos like this!
I'm working on convincing my parents to replace their decades-broken AC system and 60-year-old furnace with a heat pump, and this video going into specifics about brands that can be used to replace such an existing system is especially great for that! They've been getting hit *really* hard by their gas bills in recent years, which is the main reason I'm getting through to them about a heat pump being a good idea.
Though I imagine that insulation is probably an equally, if not more important thing to do, in their 1960s-built California home. I *know* their windows are garbage, but they have over a dozen BIG ones, and several are these old-style "bulging window frames" where there's a huge empty frame with a shelf *outside* the walls, and *then* the window panes themselves in this elaborate metal edifice with several panes of glass per window. It'd be ridiculously expensive to replace all these windows... But they did just get their entire attic cleaned out, so adding new insulation up there might well be fairly easy.
But they *also* need a new roof soon, onto which they intent to add solar panels. So these home improvement costs are getting astronomical... Oi.
If you want solar, think about combined solar. Meaning PV and heating. the heating won't be enough for the home, specially in the winter, but its something. Working together with a heat pump that should be cheaper than just going all in one one technology.
Try and look around for incentives for things like solar. You can usually get some sort of grant.
Maybe only replace bathroom windows? And get some fancy european triple glass ones
@@the_retag They *do* need that, seeing as how their bathroom windows are particularly bad. But that'll make so little difference as to be effectively meaningless for insulation improvement. That's just 2 out of the 15 windows that their house has, and they're easily the smallest out of all of them, too.
@@coredumperror yes, but bathrooms are usually heated the most. And if they are the worst windows as well...
I would really love a video on insulation specifically. All the types! My main questions are about environmental impact and fire safety. Also the environmental impact of flame retardants in home construction and furnishings, but that's a different video.
Belida Carr has a good channel comparing building products, including several deep (itchy?) dives into the pros and cons of various types of insulation.
She lives in Texas, so her videos are a little bit light on snow-belt applicability, but she presents her information clearly and is VERY up front when manufacturers give her tours and samples.
ruclips.net/user/BelindaCarr
First, if fire gets to your insulation, your house is already gone. We're using mineral wool insulation in our walls and traditional fiberglass in our ceilings as we remodel. Get the highest R value you can for the space you have. It will only pay for itself as time passes!!
@@c0rnd0g_19 different types last longer in a fire or slow the fire down, giving you time to escape
Hey, this channel has a lot more on insulation, this is just an example and channel guidance.
ruclips.net/video/wH4Oyj4fNxQ/видео.html
Idk if technology connections will ever do one but Matt risinger has multiple videos about all types of insulation for a wide variety of building types
I recently replaced my heat pump in Central Florida. I was surprised by several companies that were trying to talk me out of it. I asked a lot of questions pretending I didn't know about heat pumps and got a mix of good and bad answers. Also I had a 3 ton unit and just over by a few square feet to move to a 3.5 ton unit. In the end I found someone with very little markup for a heat pump, took time to add freon in my old leaking system to help determine if the current system would cool well enough and give me options that made sense. Luckily for me my Honeywell smart thermostat showed over 150 hours of use for heating in the winter. I had 7 quotes with only 3 that seemed like they understood heat pumps and the reasons they were valuable. A couple companies said that they just were not needed because it didn't get that cold. It got down in the 30's last winter which would have been too cold in house for me. I used heat pumps in Missouri and Kansas and they worked great until it got below 25 degrees Fahrenheit for the older units. Makes sense in most of US.
Great video. I wish I had found it when I was selecting my heat pump. I got 20 estimates (all but 2 were $22,000-41,000). If I had seen this video, it would have made my process way faster. I ended up with a 3-ton "mini-split" that hooks up an air handler so I can use my central ducting. Under $12,000 all in. I'm replacing an oil furnace and this house will have AC for the first time in its 132 years of existence. But I only got to a reasonable plan and estimate after having to learn way too much about HVAC, so I could sort through all the nonsense HVAC companies were telling me. This 45 minute video would have saved me dozens of hours.
When I moved into my house 6 years ago, it had a 5 ton single package single stage single speed heat pump with electric auxiliary heat under the house but it was 26 years old and dying. We replaced it under the California Energy Upgrade plan with a 3.5 ton split two state variable speed heat pump with electric auxiliary heat with two zones and it’s been really nice.
The old unit was an American Trane. The new unit is a Bryant (Carrier). I asked for a 3.5 ton oven a 3 ton recommended because I didn’t understand why the previous was 5 ton.
And the O terminal is the reversing valve pin for most thermostats but not Trane- I think it was C. Servicing my dying unit the HVAC contractor shorted the reversing valve and blew the fuse confusing it for common. I knew the difference because I downloaded the manual. Then when it frozen over, I diagnosed the defroster board was bad. They didn’t believe me and replaced it only to humor me and exclaimed it was bad when they saw scorch marks on the board replacing it- no they hadn’t check when I mentioned the symptoms matched- they just kept saying my filter’s probably dirty despite me having replaced it. I should not know more than the expert I hire to do the work. The contractor seemed familiar with ducts and coolant lines but seemed completely untrained on the electronics.
Poor understanding on the electronics has also been my experience with residential HVAC techs.
When I had an AC replacement done a few years back, they did not understand how to hook up the Carrier condensor unit to the Carrier Infinity furnace (air handler) controls. They were about to do it wrong (probably would kill the thermostat/interface and/or the controller) when I brought them a copy of the manual (they didn't have one) and showed them the connections. They still didn't understand so they had to call back to the shop and confirm - but they followed the diagram eventually and it worked.
They just seem really averse to RTFM - gotta look like they know everything I guess?
An educated consumer is a consumer who can save a lot of money!
The oversized “ton” rating is due to the stigma that you need double the cooling capacity for heating. In very cold climates you might, but just maintaining my system has improved its efficiency by another factor.
Part of the maintenance was smacking the Taco superheat pump so it would make hot water that keeps the heating load balanced, it’s impeller had seized from buildup since the relay was bad.
Hydronics is very underrated. It allows to add a whole new level of flexibility. For example, you can use the hot water tank to shift the heating (or cooling) demand by preheating or precooling it in advance, when the electricity costs are lower.
You also can use hydronics with head units that simply run hot/cold water through heat exchanger instead of refrigerant.
I like hydronic heating. Simple zone control, nice and quiet.
My last house had hydronic heat. My new (old) house has hot air (from a wood burning furnace with oil backup).
Plus hydronic heating systems dont move the air as much. So there is less dust in the air. Shifting the demand with hot water could be quite benificial when you have solar or a smart tarif where you pay the actual price. Being able to only heat when the grid has to much power could be good for the grid if millions of homes could shift their heating demands on cue
In our new farm house we added a layer of clay onto the brick walls. Then wood shaving insulation panels and another clay layer. Next the pex tubing and another thick layer of clay. The whole wall is open for steam release but with good insulation values and lots of thermal mass. Another benefit of this style are lower temps in the lines (better for heat pumps) and the moisture regulating properties of clay. We are going to install solar, a heat pump,plus a sensible heat store (insulated water tank). When the sun is shining we will preload the walls and tank in the daytime and use the heatpump less at night.
Yep, if you already have radiators I would pick water/air heatpump everyday. They are more efficient, has better distribution and warm water.
Space pak has such a system.
Alec, thank you for pointing out the price gouging. I was turned away from an HVAC company for a mini split because they claimed they no longer had a mini split person. As if it is really any different to install. 3 others quoted 10k per indoor unit, the equipment was about $4500 shipped to me and they wanted $30k to do it, nothing more than greed. I ended up going with a MrCool unit that requires no vacuuming of line sets and is an easy DIY. If a local company had quoted me 12k to install a 3-4 indoor multi-zone system they would have gotten a sale instead they all wanted more than double that and therefore I did it myself over a weekend. The industry needs serious changes or else they will lose to more DIY options.
Exactly. It makes no sense. Mini-split systems are MUCH more DIY friendly, so one would think they would want to hit that market with everything they have. Instead they're pushing against it and ultimately losing more and more business.
These prices are outrageous. I live in Australia and these sort of air conditioners are on virtually every house and there are so many companies that can install them. This is a price list accurate as of April 2022 converted into USD/Tonne for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries arguably the best brand, it used to be so much cheaper before COVID but everyone is putting their prices up. Make your own mind up looking at the below but even the 7 kW units that cool or heat an entire large house it's still only 1.5k usd
2.5 kW (1.0 tonne) $800 USD
3.5 kW (1.0 tonne) $1,000 USD
5.0 kW (1.5 tonne) $1,100 USD
7.0 kW (2.0 tonne) $1,400 USD
Reiterating this isn't just installation, this is supplying the actual air conditioners, delivery, installation, labor, testing.... 5 year warranty
For $10k I could install a 22 kw (>6 tonne) ducted unit into a 5 bedroom house with the entire house cooled or heated and probably still have heaps of cash left over. American labor is cheaper, why are your air conditioners so expensive!
I'm sure they'll soon address that issue by making it illegal to do your own HVAC work.
The biggest issue for DIYers is that many HVAC companies will not service your system if it wasn't installed professionally. I am fairly confident if I ever have a failed part on my DIY installed unit, I'll struggle to find someone to fix it. But given the price difference of 30-40k for a 3 or 4 zone unit, I could easily buy 8 systems at the current price before my investment was a bad deal. I'll take those odds even if it is incredibly wasteful to essentially throw away a system if I can't fix it or get it fixed. The good news is they are relatively simple systems and parts replacement outside of the refrigeration loops is likely very doable. We'll see if I have any regrets in the future but so far I have none.
@@renakunisaki Technically it already is as an unlicensed person. But, it's not like you'll be arrested or prosecuted unless you're doing it for money. You can also buy the refrigerant as an unlicensed person as long as you say you're buying it to resell.
We're in Seattle, and we had a 6 head Mitsubishi system installed. The installer asked about any HOAs they had to worry about. They never said anything about an ordnance being a problem, and we've been enjoying stable air temperatures for the last two winters, and one summer.
I’m In Seattle too. I replaced my forced air electric furnace to a central heat exchanger (Carrier). It did cut my power bill in half for winter and it’s a 2-stage (hi/low) compressor. Still though, if I ever have the option, these mini splits seem like a great way to go!
I’m also in seattle. Mind if I asked who you went though and what the total cost was like?
Promising as these are, and as far as they've come, I feel like I'm stuck in the mid '80s, shopping for a computer, and looking at paying $4000 for an 8088 running DOS 3 from floppies at 4mHz. Retrofitting my house with a heat pump was quoted last year at over $30,000, and that's really hard to justify when the existing boiler and occasionally leaky radiators heat the house pretty well for around $1500 annually. If electricity were free, I'm still looking at a 20 year break even point, assuming I've even got that many years left.
I'd be happier to rip out the whole rusty, noisy system and replace it with a minisplit but as you mention, there just aren't a lot of contractors out there willing to do this for a fair price. I'm confident I could do the work myself, but it's just not in my aging bones to take on that sort of a DIY project anymore.
The only hope for our planet is that my computer analogy is correct and that the $4000 desktop system evolves rapidly to become the $300 laptops we have to day, faster, cheaper, better and longer lasting. But to deploy heat pumps where they could make the most difference, not only reducing emissions, but creating financial stability for millions of families, is going to take an effort comparable to rural electrification, and I do not believe the US has the political will to carry it out.
Hopefully a cash for clunkers type program, but to update our home environmental systems.
@@justcommenting4981 cash for clunkers was a horrible wasteful program that did nothing to get older cars off the road. It was a backdoor bailout for auto manufacturers.
@@656hookemhorns yea, but it did facilitate people buying new cars didn't it? The point was, some sort of program should exist to give an immediate incentive to switch to more efficient heating and cooling systems.
I've no idea how large your house is, but here in the Netherlands a family house running radiators can be refitted for something like 10.000 euros.
@@luipaardprint my fellow human that says 10 euros
You're right about the price gouging going on. I live in the Seattle area and wanted to get a mini-split system installed last spring. The cheapest quote I could get for a 4-head 3 ton unit installed was 12K. The high end quote I got was 19K. I ended up going with the low bidder, but it turned out to be something of a mistake. The technicians really didn't know what they were doing and it took 4 follow-up visits and a different company with competent techs to figure out that they didn't tighten the flare connectors enough to stop them from leaking refrigerant. I blame part of the cost on inflation and demand, though. There are a lot of people retro-fitting similar systems for cooling around here as our summers are becoming increasingly hot and most of the existing houses weren't built with cooling systems. I'm still very happy I did it. The cooling made last summer's record high temperatures actually bearable, and our heating costs this winter have been significantly lower (we have a gas furnace).
i dont think it matters what kind of refrigerant device theyre installing. theres no reason why a company that works with any refrigerant devices wouldnt know how to tighten a connector so that refrigerant doesnt leak
I live in a pretty high price area too. I have the common central ducted system with a condenser outside and a furnace/evaporator coil inside. My system was over 20 years old and the outdoor AC unit was dying, it was either fix it or replace the system. Decided this was a good time to switch to heat pump as I didn't want to risk a broken AC during the sweltering summer here and heating oil prices are only getting worse, epically with the current supply chain issues. Last year my AC broke in the middle of summer and it took over a month and a half to get a replacement part and I didn't want to go through that again.
For a 3.5 Ton SEER 16 HSPF 9 heat pump + new air handler I was quoted anywhere from $9.5K to $14K (depending somewhat on the brand: Bryant was cheapest, Carrier & Trane was middle of the road, and Lennox was sky high). This was for a normal "entry level" single stage heat pump, not a mini-split, not a multi-stage or variable speed, and not a cold climate heat pump. When I looked at systems that were cold climate adapted, basically could pull heat even at 0F with very little loss in efficiency, the prices where through the roof! We are talking $18K - $30K! I wish there was more incentive to bring this new tech down to the masses, I think it could help a lot of people but right now the tech seems to be limited to only the premium and luxury models. I got quotes from 4 different vendors so it wasn't an outlier.
Hi Jordan, what companies did you get quotes from? I’m in Seattle and looking for more estimates to do a swap of my oil furnace for a heat pump and air handler using my existing ducting. Thank you
One of the things I've noticed in the builder/contractor scene being a GC in the southeast for over a decade is that there are a LOT of "old school" techs out there that are afraid to adopt new technology.
They've been installing the same ac/heat pump units for decades and they know it down to the tee, brazing lines, climbing in sweltering attics and damp and cramped crawlspaces to install air handlers and evaporators is all part of "how it's done" in their minds. They know what it takes and can give a solid price number that they are comfortable with.
I hate to use the "ok boomer" analogy with it, (I'm knocking on 40 atm), but their resistance to trying anything other than what they can do blindfolded makes them overcompensate in pricing for "that new-fangled stuff the kids are talking about". I see the same issue with metal frame homes vs traditional stick construction. Had 2 friends in nearby towns have nearly identical metal homes built right b4 covid. One hired the well known contractor that had built stick homes for 40 years, the other found a builder that was familiar with metal buildings. The cost difference due to change orders from the stick man having to order additional material (he framed everything 12" on center, thus wasting literal tons of material as he could at least gone 16" or up to 24".) But the point still stands, the stick builder built the metal building as if it were traditional lumber because he was unfamiliar with a different building practice and mindset in general. I was also told his labor cost was also about 20% over what he would have charged on a traditional stick building bc of the "added complexity".
My century plus home has/had a traditional 3.5 ton outdoor heat pump/air handler combo on it. The previous owner added around 2000sqft to the house but didn't upgrade the unit to compensate (standard estimates call for a ~5ton unit for the total size now. Regardless, the unit finally gave up the ghost last winter as it would normally run full tilt with emergency heat just to try to keep up with the piss poor ductwork for the house (6 vents alone in the kitchen that was directly against the wall where the unit was installed.) dropped pressure to the point that the rooms at the far end of the house (3 rooms with 2 ducts each) each room only had 1 duct connected and even then, airflow was marginal at best.
All that being said, I am looking to install 2 mini split systems next month. I have sized the outdoor heat pumps to be overkill for the initial install. They are capable of 4 heads each but I only intend to run 2 heads to start for the downstairs then will add additional heads upstairs later if need be.
I had intended to do all the work myself from the get go, but called a few local hvac techs to get quotes for just install (I would provide parts) and all of them gave quotes that were around 2 times their quotes to replace the traditional unit and upgrade the ductwork compared to just installing parts that I was providing separately.
Nail on the head here unfortunately.
The contractors know that they can do what’s “easier” by making it the only sensibly priced option.
If you don't want to get raped on the install costs, DON'T CALL them "Heat Pumps".
They are Air Conditioners, with Reverse Cycle. Don't even tell the installer that it is Reverse Cycle, as it makes zero difference to the installation.
I cannot believe US homes are still stuck with inefficient ducted HVAC systems. Here, in India, everyone just wants a lower electricity bill. Most people will buy a more expensive AC even though it'll take 20 years to break even 🤣.
Meanwhile, my newly bought apartment (currently under construction) will be equipped with a very efficient VRF HVAC system. Even the condensate water will be collected and used to water the plants around the complex.
CENTRAL HEAT is a big seller. The US buyers view A/Cs through windows or walls as “smum housing”. Some neighborhoods outright ban their use
.
Thank you for this information. I live on Gabriola Island in BC Canada. Here we have a community program started by an enterprising small group of retired professionals and a willing HVAC professional. They researched heat pumps 10 years ago and decided on the high efficiency Fujitsu. They became a Fujitsu dealer and have been bringing the 12,000 BTU mini split into the community at wholesale. They arranged for a local installer and, once the physical installation is complete the HVAC guy comes by and commissions the unit. In our small community they have installed over 1000 units, even giving some away to needy recipients. BC Hydro has noticed the huge reduction in demand during the winter because most systems replace baseboard heaters, and hundreds of homes are more comfortable and more healthy during the winter (and air conditioned during the summer!). Community in action! It can be done!!
Yep, loads of baseboard heaters here in coastal BC. Heat pumps are super efficient here thanks to being so mild. And at worst, I have a wood stove if we get some freakish -15 days.
I've had similar experiences with even the simplest of minisplit installations. For a tiny minisplit installation like you had where it's right opposite an exterior wall they wanted to charge me $3k+ in labor or $5k to use their minisplit. Which is insane because I spent that much (~$5K) on replacing a whole furnace+evap 2ton unit. I just wanted some tiny supplementary cooling for my computer room. I ended up getting a cheap pioneer unit like yours and having a handyman do the install for
We had a minisplit put in just over a year ago, and I am so glad that I paid the exorbitant prices from a local HVAC company instead of doing it myself. Every 2-3 months, it would lose the last of its refrigerant, and we would need to have it serviced.
I got to know the technicians (pretty much all the ones this company had), since they were in our house so frequently. They were extremely knowledgeable and capable, and seemed to assure us each time that the problem was actually solved, but, as you can tell, it wasn't. Eventually the head was completely replaced, and that fixed the issue, but before they reached that point, there was at least 60+ hours of work spent trying to diagnose and fix our lines.
Even though it was a bit more than a year (the term of our warranty), the installation company never charged us a dime, which is amazing since for every hour they spent installing this unit, they spent 10 hours on service calls, not to mention at least a thousand dollars on refrigerant (it was replaced probably 8 to 10 times in that year+).
I think this is why quotes are so high. Even though most installs are painless, there are a few like mine where everything keeps failing, and you can't charge the customer for it because it is not their fault.
@@uigrad "I think this is why quotes are so high...you can't charge the customer for it because it is not their fault." They DID charge the customer for it. Up front! They need to eat that instead, so that they actually produce decent stuff that works in the first place.
Yes, I know they're trying to save money by cheaping out on everything, and so the cost of the equipment will be a bit higher to go with the lower failure rate. But when you figure in the cost of labor to troubleshoot and repair afterwards, especially when the problem is not trivial as in your case, that's really where the expense comes from.
Aaaand then we have perverted schemes where the equipment and the labor are on different sets of books, and it becomes profitable to keep the labor up. Similar to McDonalds' ice cream machines that contractually must be the specific "investor special" model that requires regular service calls on purpose. (google that; you'll see what I mean) At least HVAC hasn't gotten to the "on purpose" part yet...
Me and my brother installed mine ourselves, and paid a company like $150 ton connect the lines, vacuum, and test. Had to call several companies, many didn't want to come just hook up lines, but it was well worth it. It is difficult to buy a vacuum set, they hold them hostage unless you an installer, and charge regular folk triple price. It was cheaper to just pay someone to come out.
@@xeridea What I'd like to know is, why do building and automotive systems have to be incompatibly different? It's the exact same process, with the only difference being an accessory belt vs. a dedicated AC motor. And you can get all the parts and tools you want for the automotive version, some of which even comes with instructions.
But no, someone decided that they have to use (slightly? maybe in name only?) different refrigerants, and different fittings to make it difficult to hook one up to the other.
@@aaronduerksen1378 From speaking with someone at a store trying to buy a vacuum pump, the reasoning is that the HVAC installers don't want regular folk to work on stuff, it would take away their business. So basically, to keep HVAC installers employed, and able to charge a lot. Kind of like how Apple goes out of their way to make servicing anything they make as difficult as possible, to get you to continue buying overpriced phones and laptops.
I have to say that my experience lines up with your anecdotes. I live in NC USA so I need both heating and cooling, but more cooling. I added a Mitsubishi minisplit to my garage so I could work out in it during the summer comfortably (and I love it!). The first company I called that had serviced my home's barrel style heat pump didn't do minisplits at all for some reason. Later I had my A/C go out in August due to a cracked coil and the recommendation was to replace the condenser and coil given the age of the system. I wanted a variable speed system with high efficiency, but that would have been a 2 month wait and more than double the cost, even though the installation would have been essentially the exact same. I didn't want to go months without HVAC, so I got something very similar to what was originally installed, which is a 14 SEER unit. In the winter the aux heat comes on for a lot of the time and I end up further supplementing with my gas fireplace. I hate it.
For a future video I think you should do something on HRV/ERV units that are installed in very airtight homes, like those following the passive house standard. It's a very interesting technology and I think we ought to be pushing codes much closer to passive house standards for both insulation and air tightness. They are dramatically more energy efficient, and have additional benefits including much better indoor air quality (and in NC we have horrible pollen in the spring) and are much, much quieter indoors. Homes like this can often get away with a much smaller HVAC system, and the "lego-like" split systems you talked about are great options there.
The biggest sin here is they installed a 14 SEER unit in 2021. There's no excuse! It's also (obviously) not engineered for the NC climate (I live in extreme NE GA, so similar climate). A decent mini-split system is 22 SEER and will heat to (at least) -5F without inefficient heat strips. Why they don't make ducted systems with the same specs is beyond my comprehension.....
My Mom and Dad built their first home in 1975, a year after my birth. They decided to go with a heat pump. It's in Zone 5b if you're familiar with agricultural zones. Our winters are frikkin cold and our summers are hellishly hot and humid. It's normal to see 95° F with 90% humidity and -10° F with high wind. For the first decade, that heat pump was the only source of heat in the house. And this was using 1970s heat pump tech. That unit was replaced...6 years ago. What a trooper of a heat pump. Yes, it had emergency resistance heat, but it was rare that it called for it. You knew in an instant when it turned on, as the dust would burn off and produce that distinctive smell. Well, that and the big red light on the thermostat, lol. A heat pump is one of the most energy-efficient ways to heat your home, even in northern states with cold winters.
I am just seeing this in September 2023. Wow you are spot on. I got some quotes for mini-splits. These were single head units. After pricing the units I saw that the contractors were GOLD plating their installation. I said no way. I was trying to replace a PTAC unit. Those are the motel units that are everywhere. I bought a heat-pump version with 3.5KW of emergency backup heat coils for 1/10 the price. The old unit slid out the new one slid in. By watching carefully what I was buying, it even plugs into the same outlet. In Kansas City area this will do nicely for the room it is in.
2:37 Yes! Insulation! Save the energy! :) (Am a mechanical insulator as I've said before on this channel, so I appreciate the acknowledgment)
In Vancouver BC, the very building where I live's parkade has ~200ft of exposed 2" piping that is our heating supply and return pipes for the in-suite radiators. I have let them know as the building managers have just replaced the roof, envelope and windows to save on energy, but haven't insulated. They're now litigating us to increase the rent $50/mo more to pay for their past upgrades, which has me begging the question of what is our rent paying for if not the maintenance of the building?
You might as well just start insulating it yourself 🤣
The house I grew up in located in South Australia, had a reverse cycle window box type unit as its sole source of heating and cooling. It was installed in the early 90s and worked well until my family sold that house in the early 2000s. Every house I've lived in since has had a heat pump in one form or another. I only recently found out through your channel that reverse cycle air conditioning just isn't really a thing in the US.
I kept thinking “what’s this fancy new heat pump tech?” and took me too long realise every house I’ve been in has had a split system and it’s just the US lagging behind the rest of the world
My US heat pump system dates from the 1980s. The US isn’t lagging… we just have dirt cheap fuel (like $1 gasoline & diesel). It’s only recently that heat pumps became cheaper than oil or gas burners
EUROPE is the lagger. They have about 1/3 as many air conditioned houses as the US has. I personally cannot imagine living without a/c
“reverse cycle air conditioning” confused 1960s American consumers. So it got changed to “heat pump” in the 70s, so people realize it’s a system to make heat
Heat pumps are a thing in America. I have been working on them since my first service call in January of 1984. We use them a lot in rural areas, where there is no gas supply. The house I lived in Grants Pass Oregon back in the 70's had all electric heat, because the cost was like $0.025 per KW in the 70's and now is only about $0.10 per KW due to a lot of hydropower here. Heat pumps are becoming much more popular. Even those homes still heated with oil, it is popular to use a heat pump for most of the winter, only using oil or propane on the very coldest nights, when temps are below 5F.
Many times the heat pumps are installed undersized for the heating load. This leads to running the electric back up heater on nights that are below about 25F, so much of the winter in some places. My heat pump is oversized for cooling and just large enough for heating mode. I never hooked up my back up 20 KW heater, so I know it can be done! In Portland Oregon, the lowest normal winter temperature is about 23F. So not very cold here.
Like your brother, I also live in San Diego. When I bought my house 8 years ago, the house had a dodgy gas furnace and no AC. A heat pump was a no-brainer. I shopped around, and at the time, Lennox offered the most efficient system (XP25: 24 SEER), which was only $3000 more expensive than the 13 SEER base AC-only models + gas furnace every installer was pushing. Besides two bizarre hardware failures caused by bad firmware, I've been very happy with it. Paired with solar, the only cost to operate it has been maintenance. The service techs always comment about how rare and fancy this unit is, which saddens me - it should be standard by now!
Weatherization Auditor here, Insulation is my life. I work at a Community action agency and do free efficiency upgrades to lower client's baseloads, such as LED replacements and New Fridges if the current one is over a certain kwh/yr. Our clients are anyone under 200% of the poverty line, with other factors affecting their priority points, or place in line. I also make it my mission to switch out 70 and 80 percent furnaces replaced with a Heat Pump. I'm one a few over here in Western Kentucky. This is important work, Alec. Thanks for covering it.
That recreation of the startup sound for an AC was surprisingly good.
I would love to re-insulate my house, install new windows, and look into switching into a heat pump with gas for emergency heat, but we also need programs to assist folks who own older homes that contain asbestos.
What would be a relatively simple (yet not inexpensive) reinsulation project turns very quickly into something completely uneconomical when the ridiculous cost of asbestos abatement is factored in. It almost turns it into one of those "It's cheaper to demolish" situations, but I can't justify the cost and disruption to my life in order to do this.
So I'm stuck - I can't afford a better home because home costs have gone crazy, and I can't afford to resolve issues in my current one in order for my life to become "greener". Sigh.
It's surprising how many homes have some kind of complicating factor like this - and they're the ones that would benefit the most from upgrades!
Although asbestos removal can be inexpensive. Recently had a contractor look at my asbestos drainpipes - and they said they'd have to remove them but they could double bag them leave them here and we (as residents, rather than a company) can get a local authority to take them for free. If they took it away (as a company) they'd need an asbestos license and to pay per kg.
In my case - I want a heat pump but don't qualify for a grant because I don't have cavity wall insulation. I can't get cavity wall insulation because of concrete gutters - they're known to fail over time and leak onto the insulation, causing really bad damp problems - so no regulated installer will install it unless the gutter has a guaruntee'd lining. So in order to install a heat pump, I have to remove/reline my gutters 🤯🤯
@@naxxtor Certainly, sometimes asbestos removal can be fairly inexpensive, especially in the case of Vinyl Asbestos Tile, Pipe Insulation, Acoustical Ceiling Tiles, etc.
In my case, there is use of Zonolite-Sawdust/Asbestos insulation in the walls and ceiling spaces.
Tearing open all the walls - even the upper level floor (which used to be an attic) to remove it - would mean I'd have to move out completely in the process. I'd be willing to bet that the cost would be $30-40k just to have it removed, then add the costs of putting whatever new back (foam, fiberglass, etc) and then new wallboard, paint. It's a nightmare.
Yes, I would also like the government to pay for my choices as they can be expensive
@@MrCheeto01 No. I don't need the government to pay for all of my "expensive" choices. However - the real estate industry does a piss poor job of informing buyers and obtaining disclosure from sellers regarding the presence of things like asbestos, lead paint, and other hazardous materials. It has also been a sellers market for many years, and as a buyer in this climate you don't really get the opportunity to get thorough inspections of houses if there are multiple people bidding on every shitty house you can barely afford.
Additionally, governments do a terrible job of informing potential homebuyers of the probability of their new homes containing these hazardous materials, and the risks posed by them, or the expense involved in mitigating them.
Also, many younger folks do not understand the building materials and practices that were used to build these older homes, and moreover - don't really have a "choice" as you suggest. They have a budget, and the market determines what areas they can buy in, and what vintage of house they can afford. It's not like they teach kids how to choose and buy a home in school. I guess they just expect that nobody will be able to afford to buy anymore? Sadly, it seems like we're headed in that direction.
Our governments outlawed things like asbestos and lead paint, lead pipes, etc., all for public safety reasons decades ago - but yet, the effort to ensure that younger generations are informed about them have mostly disappeared. Why? Maybe they don't want to get in the way of the real estate bubble, and the revenue they earn from it. So now a new generation is stuck with these houses that aren't worth what it would take to either remediate/renovate, or demolish and rebuild - and the folks living in them can't afford to do either, because they could barely afford them in the first place.
Anyway, I "chose" to buy a house I could afford and get out of my parents' basement and not become a RUclips comment troll. It only takes one uninspired comment to see what your choices were.
@@davereichert My Mom (and by extension myself) are looking for a house and fortunately we have a good agent that actually tells us about this stuff and looks for issues like water damage (tons of homes have undisclosed water damage). Most agents don't do this and as a result people are bidding much higher for homes than they should thus further driving the prices up. I do remember learning about asbestos and such as a kid but then I'm 32 so I don't know how common that knowledge is amongst the typical first time home buyers who really don't have any money. (For those curious/irrationally angry that I'm 'wasting my life living with mommy' I could afford to move out on my own but even with my decent paying job I'd almost certainly be stuck renting which is just throwing my money away rather than saving up and still being able to buy some nice stuff for myself like the mid tier gaming PC with dual monitors I'm using right now).
Hello from France ! Loved this series on heat pumps, learned a ton of things. Just so you know, you pretty much convinced me to change my oil system with a heat pump. Plus, I won't have to order it 3 times a year ! You may even have conviced me to ditch out my water / radiator system now.
Spaniard HVAC technician here. Just be sure to get a trusty brand (like Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Hitachi) because of future maintenance and parts availability ;)
Just make sure to check if you can adapt to the air type heating based on an air to air heat pump, in my experience (with air conditioners in heat mode) they are not that pleasant and they make some noise. I've made a test this winter (I live in Romania) and for us is not a comfortable option so I'll try to buy an air to water heat pump to use withe the radiators (fortunately the house is pretty well insulated and the radiators are oversized so even with the actual gas boiler I almost never use the water in the radiators above 40-45 degrees Celsius even at -10/15 degrees.
You mentioned having an AC unit put through a wall. It brings back memories on what my Dad did back in the 1970's. We lived in the Yakima Valley in Washington and at that time HVAC units were not common. We had oil for heating and no AC. My Dad bought a large window unit and put it through the wall and sealed it up. The insulation on the house was a fiberboard nailed onto the outside of the studs with no fiberglass in the walls. The house was built in the late 50's.
One of the largest markets for these split systems is RVs. Lots of full time RVers are installing solar panels on their roofs and lithium batteries to store that collected energy. In this situation the efficiency available in split systems can allow AC or heat to run all night on the stored energy, especially if you only really need to run the head unit in the sleeping space. Add in the fact that full time RVers usually follow the moderate temps because their homes are, you know, on wheels, and you have a perfect use case.
Another excellent use case is when homes or living spaces are expanded. It is much easier to add a mini split to a converted garage or attic space than expand or replace an existing whole-house system. Once folks have good experiences with the units in their expanded living space, they may add more mini split systems when it comes time to replace their existing whole house system.
I love this channel so much. One of my all time favorites on youtube. You have an incredible ability to succinctly explain complex stuff.
I just wanted to point out that Insulating without Air-sealing can be very problematic. Any time you insulate, you should also air-seal--and vice versa (especially in older homes!) to ensure that the thermal boundary and pressure boundaries are aligned. For example, if you insulated an attic and didn't air seal, now all of the sudden the attic is significantly colder than it was before, when it was heated by the warmth flowing up through the living space. If warm moist air from the inside of the house is still able to make it up through the attic, then you can get condensation on the underside of your roof and create mold and mildew problems or rot your roof off.
I'm a Weatherization auditor and I would love to continue to see you explore topics related to weatherization. Maybe a blower door video?? I feel like that's totally up your alley. Thanks for all your amazing work, Alec!
Any advice relating to climate should specify what climate on Earth you're talking about.
Bradley, A blower door video would be great! Why not make one yourself? Try to write out a script, and then read it without saying Um every 30 seconds! It really helps to practice the script a couple of times before going "Live" on video tape. You have seen those video's where the commentator is saying um all the time, and you hate it - Right.
At my house, the State of Oregon sent out a auditor who did a air duct leak test. They never closed off the air filter, or put anything in to stop air backflow through my 4 ton heat pump. They "Claimed" that there is air loss from the air ducts of 250 CFM or something. Then they removed every floor register, and put in duct sealant, and did the test again. Surprise, the ducts are now sealed with less than 50 CFM lost at this test. I never did tell them I know a thing or two about HVAC and air flow. What a rip off, but at least my air ducts have sealant in the area where they meet the floor, and actually are sealed better than before.
To do a true test, I would seal each air outlet vent with a plastic shopping bag, then place the vent register back in place. Then with the air filter also in a trash bag, and put back into place, the only air duct open now could have about 1" of static pressure to see how many CFM of air is flowing into the air ducts, and thus out the door!
I have seen diligent air loss tests, where the air door blows air into the building, and they used a chemical sprayer to shoot soapy water onto the exterior of the home, to look for leaks. Like around the electrical outlets, window frames, door frames, ect. They got lots of air bubbles. Even at 0.25" of water column pressure in the home. It made quite the display on that video! Soap bubbles everywhere!
I've always looked down on mini-split systems and discredited them as being "cheap, crappy wall A/C systems". Your video taught me a great deal and now I understand they can be excellent options for both heating and cooling, and can sometimes be much more efficient than a ducted system. Excellent video, thank you!
Why would you think they are crap? The whole house units are also split A/C (condensor outside… evaporator inside)
I just installed a heat pump system myself. I have an older home with boiler heat, so ductless was the way to go. Install is easy, and it is incredibly quieter than the window shakers. Haven't used it for heat yet, but I'm going to try it out this fall. I am working on plans for a new house, and I think I am going to use these for the entire HVAC system, along with an ERV. If you are interested in viewing the install, or getting some B-Roll for your next heat pump video, let me know, I'm in northern Illinois. Great video, Im glad someone is pointing out the positives, and possible negatives. Keep up the good work.
watching these videos made me realize what confused me when people talked about A/C and heating... as it turns out many used A/C as synonymous with cooling, which is crazy-talk as where I live the A/C unit has always been capable of both cooling and heating. Just to clarify, central heating systems are really common.
I'm confused too. AC as "air conditioning" here is used in terms of HVAC as "heating, ventilation and air conditioning". As all split systems have heating and cooling, but some also ventilation and humidity control
That shit always annoys me.
Air conditioning is temperature and humidity control.
It was originally invented to control humidity.
Using it only to mean cooling is just stupid
I think it has something to do with the automobile industry. Cars almost always had heaters, but AC was an option. Basically, people began to equate AC with cooling, and heaters with heating. So when it came to heating and cooling the home, the trend carried over...
Usually, it's only those who've had at least some level of education in air conditioning, that understand that it includes both and then some...
In some parts of the world like tropical countries, A/C units are only capable of cooling
@@DanielFenandes that's true in all parts of the world! An ac unit, and the science of air conditioning, are two different things. Technically, AC means the conditioning of air by cooling, heating, humidifying or dehumidifying, etc...
I know this will sound a little odd, but one aspect I think you should think about when advocating for this is how there is always a feeling that you don't want to make the jump now because the tech is improving so fast that waiting a year might yield drastically better results. Which becomes equally applicable logic when that year comes up that you feel, "well the return of waiting another year for a better system will outweigh the loss of keeping the current system for one more year."
That may be true for a newer tech like solar or BEVs. But, as mentioned in the video, this isn't anything new. It's all existing tech. Yes, small/marginal improvements are being made, but nothing revolutionary. The only thing that could make a big change would be for US manufacturers to start building large volumes of them and reduce cost via economy of scale, but given the current state of the world, I wouldn't hold my breath for that.
But then you get locked into that pattern, "if i wait just 1 more year....", and never upgrade.
I think its best that everyone upgrade as soon as they are able to, rather than wait for a slightly better efficiency, when we have MUCH higher efficiencies than our current systems already.
Counterintuitively efficiency gains may even reverse, when the current efficient gasses are disbanded due to their GWP issues.
And we are forced to other gasses like CO2 or flammables.
AH yes, the ol' graphics card conundrum.
@@Froggability hydrocarbon based refrigerants may be the way to go in the future
Great series. You are doing great work.
It seems to me that this should be a MASSIVE opportunity for a market disturbance. With all of the venture capital nowadays chasing after ever more mundane market segments (like matresses or funeral homes) you would think that some venture-capitol backed startup would already be trying to "revolutionize" the home heating and cooling space.
I mean, a new whole-home furnace/ac in the US is somewhere between $5,000 - 12,000 (replacement, no ductwork) and it really seems like these devices are smaller and less sophisticated than your average washer and dryer or what-have you. Lots of high-pressure, scammy tactics in that market too.
How hard would it be for the "AC/Furnace Uber" to arrange for some basic products, arrange for local installers via something like a franchise system and still offer consumers good products at 50% to 75% discounts compared to the typical closed distributor and HVAC shop "cartels."
They have been readily available for a while. The thing with HVAC companies and mini-splits is that you can just buy them online or in a store, which you cannot do with most larger systems. The other issue with these is the capacity; it is nowhere near what you can get from a ducted unit without accounting for duct losses.
The mid-roll ad on this video was a DIY AC unit. Wall-mounted ductless system for single family homes. The market landscape is shifting. I can't wait for mass adoption.
@ErtruDUR - Know some of the right folks, who go in for HONEST investing? Steer them towards my other comment here: ruclips.net/video/43XKfuptnik/видео.html&lc=Ugz2aofWigb0Rk9LR_N4AaABAg
Regarding the units that can transfer heat between rooms, I see this applying to multi-story houses. All of the ones that I've lived suffered from significant temperature differences between floors; someone is always hot or cold and compromise here just leads to neither party being comfortable. Individual room control with the heat moving between rooms sounds very nice. Thanks for the great video!
I have been using a 10000btu heat pump to heat and cool my 1000sqft attached garage in central Ontario Canada. It costs maybe $40 extra /month in the depths of winter and it was not difficult to install. It keeps my insulated garage (doors too) between 15C and 20C all winter. We saw down to -33C this past winter. Much appreciated for working on vehicles.
1000 sqft? That's a monster garage!
That stock footage was remarkably related, actually...
38:05 gotta love hard-starting a long-abused brushed AC motor!
Really looking forward to more variable speed systems and super-small systems, I want to build out a van eventually and would love to put an adorably tiny heat pump in there to keep the temp under control.
I have worked on heat pumps for 15 years. More specifically, I serviced over 400 of them on a highrise built in the mid 1980s. It was great for the owner as they only had to pay to maintain a 70° water loop. They were efficient but noisy.
@@asbestosfibers1325 I mainly serviced Whalen and Florida heat pumps. They were packaged really tightly. The only real water leaks that I dealt with were on the flexible supply and return hoses and an occasional clogged condensate drain. As for refrigerant, the cap tubes would rub and leak.
Just moved into a new house that already has a heat pump system installed, had no idea how it worked. Very cool series, thank you!
Last summer I replaced my ducted heating system with a ductless mini-split and it was a pretty good improvement, because even though the insulation in my house was crap, it at least let me only heat the room I was in. At this very moment I'm having my attic reinsulated and hopefully that'll give me a much bigger improvement.
Sometimes it does get a little colder here than a heat pump can quite handle, but that's why I have portable space heaters.
Also, I'm in Seattle, and not a single installer I talked to had anything to say about noise ordinances.
And because you're in Seattle your energy is totally green! It's awesome here!
@@DeviantOllam Yeah! Although heat pumps are still a win for folks in fossil fuel areas too. Less energy usage is better.
Do your windows next. I live in maine and while I see the difference on the heating bill with attic insulation, good windows made all the difference in how a room *feels* moment to moment. Especially in rooms where the thermostat isn't. Get good weather stripping around and under your exterior doors if you don't already. Sometimes it isn't all about keeping the heat in, its more about keeping the cold out. If you aren't vain hang thick blankets in the doorways and over the windows of the room with the pump. Does a really good job.
@@michaeldaigle7207 yes windows are very important. Our house was built in 1939 so it had no insulation and the windows were still the single pane aluminum framed windows. They are absolutely terrible but fortunately replacing them has been really easy. There is a huge difference with just Windows being installed alone on the temperature control in the room.
@@michaeldaigle7207 My windows were already redone recently though, I don't see why I should do those next
My actual next thing on the list is the fireplace, because that seems to be the current biggest heat loss for my house.
I had a 4 head mini split installed a month ago. Even running the line sets on the exterior walls, it took them 4 days to get it all installed. So, in that case, I think the labor cost was a lot more reasonable than you’re making it out to be, especially since he had to have 2 technicians a lot of those days. A lot of the labor in the case of multiple heads is getting all those lines installed and looking nice. It’s a lot of climbing ladders and wrangling fittings and pulling vacuum. The time really adds up! That said, there was definitely some healthy profit margin being realized.
Single zones are very easy the multi zones are much harder especially because American homes weren't built with these in mind most times several hours are spent problem solving every company needs to make a profit and employees need to get paid especially since in my state you have to go to school and be licensed that coupled with the hard labor and crawling under gross crawlspaces under decks and tight disgusting attics and that is why install cost is high plus all mini splits are made in china all of them... And install done in America that's the disparity in labor cost plus the lines and line covers are insanely expensive
@@ctoddgo3074 I told the technicians not to bother with my tight crawl space and attic because they’re both an absolute pain to work in. Since I don’t have to look at the outside of my house I just had them run all of the lines on the outside. But that still had the techs going in and out, up and down my stairs and up and down ladders all day. I kinda felt bad watching them. It looked miserable. And most days it was only one guy. At least they didn’t have to slither around in fiberglass and spiders, I guess.
@@VoiceOverTrailReviews yeah it takes about 3 days with 3 guys to install a 4 head unit properly depending on the house some take less those guys where I live went to school and had training and should be compensated properly the business does make a profit and has expenses and there are other items that add up. So I took offense a little when he said hvac guys are greedy I don't own a company or set the prices but I know what it takes to install a multi head unit and to say that any company shouldn't make a profit or pay their employees for their labor is what is ruining this country honestly this channel seems knowledgeable about many things but is way off base on this one imo
If the technicians are being paid the way I think they should be paid, then it’s easy to imagine 3 guys over three days plus the cost of benefits and other overhead eating into the profit margins pretty quickly. The guys installing my system were working massive overtime trying to get that thing installed. I really didn’t think being quoted 12.5k for a 3 ton system seemed excessive. Plus, it’s not as if HVAC companies or techs are exactly tripping over each other for the ‘privilege’ of doing residential installations. I also think people expecting to get everything free or at discount is leading us to ruin. People’s labor is worth something to me!
@@VoiceOverTrailReviews That was not the point tho, the point was that old gen. systems are quoted much cheaper, despite not being more complex tech-wise. It suggests oligopolies and vested interest, where new tech is priced out only because it requires new skills and tools to acquire and there is an early adopters premium to be paid by those who care.
Hi there! Nice video! Back in engineering school, when I first learnt about heat pumps, I was shocked by their real potential. So much so that I qualified them the closest thing to magic that I knew of. Thermodynamics were not so easy to master but the feeling to steal heat was sooooo good.
I have to say, it does make some air noise in the house. At first, I was concerned but after a week my brain just added it to the background noises of my place. So it is not so bad in the end. The outside unit inverter system has soft start and is not as noisy as the legacy AC bang/bang compressor design that's for sure. I guess the power factor is better too so it is nicer for the grid and easier to feed with a solar inverter.
In France, reversible inverter models are quite common. I'm surprised that in the US you still have mostly only cooling ones... We however have strict regulations an only qualified technicians can deal with refrigerant loadings/unloadings. You can still do a full DIY install if you get precharged units and lines with special sealed fittings that rupture when tightened.
Sad part:
A lot of places have a so called "landscape harmony to preserve" which here in France, depending on locations, has the power to make you undo whatever is considered ugly! If you are within 500m of a nice looking centuries old building (includes bell towers, ruins, canals...) you'd better check about that. I never noticed but almost every village here is concerned. That's the cost of a very nice looking country-side I'd say! I Had to spend 200€ to get this special wooden box to hid my outside unit. It is well designed for air flow but the engineer in me is internally shouting "wtf! let it breath!". Authorities found it nice-looking which is great as I don't want to pick up a fight that i'll certainly loose. If i can easily hid the outside unit in my case this is not possible for everyone which is a bit unfair. Do you have such tight regulations regarding landscapes in the US? Not only local regulation or very important buildings/famous locations which are the heart of our heritage. I mean about the vicinity of any small old church or so that only local people or fan of local History know of. 500m radius is a lot as most of the people will live there in a small village.
Next project: Convince our dear landscape authorities that all back solar panels are classy and discreet. Especially 400m away from this remarkable graveyard that i am apparently within sight in the winter when trees don't have their leaves. Come-on! I will surely not be allowed to cover all my south facing roof but i'll try to have at least some of it... Feels bad to have all this energy falling onto my roof and not being allowed to recover it. We keep our nice looking villages with picture-postcard castles and chapels with no evident signs whatsoever of post WWII technologies which slows down or stop the individuals willing to actively fight against global warming. I hope they will cut some slack to it at some point. To bad middle ages guys didn't put solar on their roofs... Authorities would force us to do so otherwise.
Have a nice day!
And remember => Entropy is the ultimate enemy.
No, although New Mexico has very strict building designs in some places
The US Constitution starts “We the People” which means all authority comes from the citizens. Few Americans would tolerate being told “your heater is ugly… remove it”. Where I live every house has one, so it’s considered normal
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Well, am I glad I live in Australia. I paid about $600 for my Mitsubishi split A/C system, installed it myself, and it all runs on sunshine. Ok, the climate here is much like San Diego, but I originally came from Canada, so I know what it's like up there. But your presentation brought home the extent to which North Americans are chained to the existing methods of heating & cooling. It's going to take quite awhile for this to change. You are probably the most effective motivator there is at present. The people in the industry don't want to change; neither do the people who make the rules and regulations. But they have to. Especially if there's someone like you standing there beating a drum.
You're not wrong about the noise issues. The outdoor unit for my bedroom A/C is less than a metre from my head when I'm in bed, with a very thin wall between. Yet I can barely hear it when it's running, even when it's going full tilt.
Did I mention my hot water heat pump, that I made myself out of a dehumidifier? Ok, I had help from a friend in the refrigeration industry, but I gassed it myself with propane, and it works just fine., It needs to run for maybe an hour to make enough hot water for a shower. Rather than try to invent a complicated thermostat system, I just put a 2-hour clockwork timer in the power line to it, so I can run it whenever I need some hot water. In the summertime, I don't need the heat pump, there are 3 solar panels on the roof that are connected directly to the water heater element. The heat pump is needed in winter because there's not enough sunshine. Works for me.
First of all, i just think your content is great. I'am ac tect in Finland and heatpumps are very common here (i have two in my house). We dont really have gas lines in residental homes. Most common here in new houses, for ac is thermal heatpumps. For the older houses we instal mainly air to water heatpumps. Each system are easy to change for cooling, but its pretty standard here. Now days i work at nucreal powerplan cooling systems, but i think its funny that refigeneration works here the same... Just for larger shale 😁 Keep on the good work. Best Regards form Finland.
I'm fascinated by this series! I live in North Dakota, so I do get the occasional day where I would need something to supplement the heat pump. Currently I have a forced hot air gas furnace for winter, and I have a semi-split air conditioner: it's a saddle unit that sits over the window. Of course, my 672 square foot house isn't exactly what a lot of heating/cooling people have in mind when they design their systems.
Interestingly, where I work there are heat pumps for every room. They are great because we had no air conditioning before and my side of the building was miserable. And they're great for that awkward time in spring and fall when the big boiler that heats the building is too much.
Great video -- though you missed a technology used in some high-rises (even in Chicago and Canada): water source heat pumps. Those tend to be great for summer cooling; however, unless the building installs a central heater for the water loop, they need auxiliary heat in the winter. A nice by-product of these systems is the shared water loop does let heat move between units.
In the fantasy world where I become US President, I'm appointing you head of the Department of Energy.
A few years ago I bought and had professionally installed an air source heat-pump from Toshiba, this was 2018 ish. I chose the best heat-pump for the money I could that also had an R32 refrigerant as R410a is pretty awful. The pump and install cost me around 2000 bucks, copper and wall mount was extra at around 180 bucks together. And this is in Norway fellas, very few things are cheap here and it's illegal to install this yourself.
There was a nationwide incentive with cashback for air source heat-pump installs, but that has unfortunately been removed. Still a good idea though, my apartment is around 90m^2 on the second floor of a 100 year old house that has been renovated. It's consumption during the winter season is a bit above 1000kW/h which would normally cost around 100 bucks.
There's an important factor missing from the section about insulation: embodied carbon!
If the goal of reducing energy consumption is to slow/reverse climate change, you need to be careful about what materials you use. There's a lot of closed cell spray foam B-roll and that's one of the worst offenders wrt embodied carbon. Most closed cell foams use blowing agents with extremely high GWP, creating a situation where it can take >20 years to hit the GWP break-even point, assuming that your electricity supply continues emitting CO2. The cleaner your grid is, the longer the payback period. If you're on a 100% clean grid, you'll never break even!
All that to say: it's important to choose carbon-sequestering insulation products like packed cellulose and fiberboard instead of carbon-emitting insulation products like foams and mineral wool!
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But what you forgot to look into is the safety factor of items like Rockwall. Rockwool insulation's a.k.a. mineral wool are a lot safer during a house fire and will slow it substantially. Followed up with good building practices such as making sure your sheet rock is properly taped and mudded and you bought yourself some time to get out in a worst case scenario it also doesn't mold or have its abilities to insulate critically damaged if it gets wet.
It was really strange for me to realize people have AC's that can't switch the flow from cooling to heating... Every unit I had in the last 20+ years does this. Now I need to read up on efficiency for my next purchase.
My name is David and one year ago I moved into a home from ruffly the 1930's. One of the first upgrades we made to this h9use wich had no central heating and air was to centrally mount a heat pump system. I used your videos to do the installation with some help from the directions and other RUclipsr's. Over the last 365 days or so this is what I have observed
For the space I am using this single unit in (1500ish square feet) it works wonderfully for heating and cooling the home. With a few ceiling fans we are able to move the air across the house. We have found this to be a bit of a necessity as if we do not then we end up with one or two rooms climate controlled and the others closer to the exterior temperature.
The insulation did not require any special tools however I did get pipe cutters so I could shorten the distance of coper pipe. I had a service tech check it after my installation and he said it was all good.
The unit runs some days all day and night in the winter with no problem thus far. I am curious to see how it handles this summers heat.
That is my report of the unit and of the product/idea. I am very please and after some rewiring we will be adding insulation and I'm excited to see the effect. New windows will be last as far as insulation goes (large older odd sizes)
I've enjoyed your series on Heat Pumps! thanks. My 70s home has an oil furnace. Last fall I installed a 24k Mini Split and we heated the whole main floor with it this winter. Installed it myself for $1500 total. We also got a Tesla at the same time, last September. My electric bill went up $90 cdn a month this winter. My oil bill went down $250 a month and gasoline down by $200 a month. Huge instant savings. I think the Split will have paid for itself in 2 years and the Tesla cost me no more than a similar ICE car I would have bought anyways after selling our 14 yr old SUV - so the net cost was $0 to go to a BEV and the energy savings are all pocketed. There is one catch: my mini split is not the most efficient, and struggles to heat the home to over 68F for a week at xmas when temps were below freezing. Luckily that was the only week it was below freezing all winter, and I just ran the oil furnace for that week anyways. So there is part of the solution: DUAL FUEL in below freezing cold regions (unless you go PassivHaus!).
I wonder what effect upgrading your windows and insulation would have on that max winter temperature.
@@Assault0137 probably huge. I have 6 huge picture windows around my living room and kitchen which are pretty wasteful. Also over half the windows on the house are single pane! leaky doors, non insulated basement, its all pretty bad. Still the 2 ton split heats the 1500sf main floor very well except that one week at Xmas.
Weird, in my country, split type heat pumps (which we call "air conditioners") similar to the Pioneer shown in the video, are powered the other way around. You don't have to connect the external unit to the electric line, but the INTERNAL one. The internal unit powers the external one. Smaller devices (9.000 and 12.000 BTU) come with a plug and you just... plug them into a socket. 24.000+ BTU units come with naked wires that you must connect to power. I don't have a 18.000 BTU unit, so I don't know if they come with or without plugs.
Also, the internal unit collects condensed water and sends it outside the house through a hose that goes along with the two insulated copper tubes and the electric cord that connects both units. All four things are wrapped together in tape. So you only have to drill one hole in the wall.
You are correct, usually the internal unit connects to power is my experience also. But recently more and more units connect to power at the external unit, which is the case with my Gree G-Tech unit. But not having power outside, the power cable runs inside the house and goes to a power outlet. So it looks exactly like the internal unit is connected to power.
My *guess* is that there may be a code requirement in the US that AC or heat pumps have to have an electrical shutoff at the outside unit. That makes sense for those big old units which occasionally catch on fire. Might also be a safety thing for repairs, since a ducted system would typically have separate shutoffs for the air handler and the compressor.
"Air conditioners": Expensive, seldom-necessary, ineffcient first-world western decadence which will doom us all.
"Heat pumps": The lean, clean, green solution to a glorious future of glittering cities and happy people holding hands.
Judging by your name i would expect you to be from Latin America (Brazil here). My family works with Air conditioners for years and they always use a simple workaround to install those units with power cables on the inside unit. You just strip the cable and plug it to the internal panel who sends power to the outside unit, then you connect the cable outside to power and you're good to go. The power cable doesn't care wich side is being powered.
@@prytooblack You're right; Uruguay here 🙂 In fact, I'm very happy with the power supply on the internal unit. I just plug it into an available socket. Here, AC units up to 12.000 BTU come with "schuko" plugs, which is arguably the sturdiest and safest plug in the known universe 🙂
Very interesting and highly valuable series on heat pumps! I live in Sicily and my dad more than 20 years ago, started restoration of our old house (more than 150 years now, made with stones), and first thing he did was rebuilding the roof with 2ft of styrofoam to insulate and to lighten the building. For our heating, since we do live on a mountain where temperatures do get below freezing, he used heat pumps, and they made the system ready to get the external unit for air conditioning too. We as a family are not very keen on air conditioning, but we are now considering adding that external unit since summers are getting extremely warmer, as warm as in the Death Valley: last summer we set the European record for warmest temperature ever recorded, 48.8°C or just shy of 120°F.
This is the subtext of this series. In a warming world, you're all going to need AC too.
It surprises me the USA market is so messed up on this subject. I had a 10kW ducted heat pump installed for a total cost of $9000 australian dollars. Into a house not built for ducting. 10kW is way over whats needed and it heats the house cheaply in winter and cools it really well in summer.
I'd really kind of like to see a retrofit system to "update" existing AC units to become Heat Pumps. Yes I realize that there ae flaws with this, but I do suspect that being able to just use the heat/cool pump through most of the year, and limit the Gas usage to those days when the heat pump gets bogged down because of icing, etc, would cut down on natural gas use at a lot of places. Even with a less than ideal duct work. Alternatively being able to do the massive heat dump of the gas furnace to get the house up to the desired temp in the morning, then maintain that temp through the day would potentially cut back on gas use as well.
But we need to insulate here first.
A "Heat Pump" is an Air Conditioner. It's simply a Reverse Cycle Air Conditioner.
The use of that term "Heat Pump" is what is causing Americans so much confusion.
Everywhere else in the world, we don't install 2 completely separate HVAC system like is commonly done in the USA.
@@johncoops6897 well they ussally aren't to completely separate systems. they ussally share the air handler.
@@Patmorgan235Us - what I mean is that in most countries, we have been fitting Reverse Cycle Air Conditioners for about 40 years... it's not some radical latest news to us in the modern world. There is no need for a separate heater (on a different fuel) in most climates, the A/C can do it all.
And if they share the air handler then the A/C unit can easily be upgraded to Reverse Cycle with Inverter. This gives the cooling efficiency gains, plus cheaper baseline heating. Just leave the big gas furnace if worried about mid-winter capacity.
Just don't call it a "Heat Pump" when getting quotes, because Americans installers simply don't understand those, but they understand the term A/C just fine.
ITS THIS EASY: remove AC unit. Install heat pump unit. Done!
As for backup, most have resistance heat built-in. It turns-on if the temperature drops below 5 F. Otherwise all the heat in my house comes from my heat pump
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@@electrictroy2010 It's easy to prepare to drive in the snow. Scrap the perfectly good car you've been driving all summer and buy an entirely new one with snow tires. After all it's far too expensive and time consuming to just get a new set of snow tires and wheels and go around and replace the tires you've been driving on.
Note that the only thing that separates an A/C unit from a heat pump is a valve and the electronics to switch which side of the unit gets warm and which side gets cool. But hey, go get someone to extract the refrigerant, scrap the perfectly good A/C unit out and buy a whole new unit that acts as a heat pump. You're made of money. Right?
No, I know you're not. So if you drive in a climate with snow, you likely have 'all season' tires that are optimized neither for snow, nor summer roads, but meet standards that suggest they are acceptable for each. And most of us are going to be stuck wasting heat by burning gas in our house when we could (at least in theory) be using a heat pump and have a much more efficient heating system that then only burns gas when the outside temps drop to a point where the heat pump efficiency goes out the window. We don't do the heat pump thing because we've got perfectly good A/C units that we dropped a bundle on and we don't see that the cost of scrapping that out to put in a heat pump will pay for itself the way putting one initially may have, but even though some of us live in a climate where a heat pump would provide a benefit, they are not generally available in our markets.
And yes, I do think that a retrofit option that replaces the valve, and adds the electronics could be done, and probably for far less than buying an entirely new unit to be installed, but I also know that it's not likely to be made available unless someone gets with the local electric provider to have them get the tech assembled, and the installers on the payroll, and offer it to customers with A/C units.
And even there it's not going to be an ideal solution. As noted a modern heat pump tends to be running at other than all out push the system to the limit power draw, where a retrofitted A/C unit probably will not be operating in a variable power draw mode. I know many people who can live with that if we can start seeing better than 100% efficiency.
38:10 The impression of an air conditioner starting up was uncannily accurate and I'm not sure if I'm impressed or concerned
The first rule of Heat Pump Club is: you do talk about insulation. The second rule of Heat Pump Club is: you DO talk about insulation! Third rule of Heat Pump Club: if someone yells “heat pumps aren't efficient" the fight has just begun. Fourth rule: only heat pumps for cooling AND heating.
*gives discrete nod in your direction*
I think the HSPF vs COP discrepancy at 24:20 is due to HSPF accounting for the occasional use of auxiliary heat aka toaster oven heat (COP=1). The COP rating on the NEEP list is accounting for the refrigerant cycle efficiency only.
It’s called resistance heating. My thermostat has an override to Not use the auxiliary resistance heat… though I’ve never seen it turn-on except below 0 degrees
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One thing you briefly touched on: WINDOWS. While we have good wall insulation, we still had the original nearly century-old single pane windows. When we replaced them a few years back we found it's literally a night-and-day difference.
Before we swapped them we had a crappy evaporative cooler that would only drop the temp about 7-12°F. it got bad in the summers unless we left it on all night and let the house chill. Just replacing those windows resulted in significant temperature stability and a boost in cooling to ~20°F. When we changed over to AC back in early 2020 (sadly before your heat pump vids - that would have been worth looking into!) our electric and water bills dropped significantly. The cost difference with the financing payments equaled what we were paying for with a cooler motor running 24/7 and we're significantly more comfortable now. Good insulation pays off and you can recoup costs in only a few years.
Interesting historical note, is that in urban areas before 1920, many buildings had double pane windows. But after the 1918 pandemic, there was a Fresh Air movement and those double panes were changed to leaky single pane (like the hicks in the sticks had) for the fresh air ingress. The steam heat systems post 1920 were advised to be sized to heat the home/building on the coldest day of the year, with the windows open, and the wind blowing. This was because it was advised to sleep with the window open and people took that to just keep the windows open throughout the house. That is why so many old buildings in cities where steam heat was being installed, like NYC, force people to open the windows in the winter because of the heat output. Sure, it cost money, but it would keep the viruses from getting you.
Even in 1918 they knew disease was spread person to person. Having closed insulated rooms didn’t spread the disease
I have a 4-way ductless mini-split and it works great. Mine's a Daikin system which I noticed wasn't on your list. The only drawback of most systems like this is you can't heat and cool at the same time. I use mine to heat my home office instead of the whole house with gas central heating and it's actually appreciably cheaper, especially right now.
Oh and due to a quirk, my system was cheaper with heating over just cooling at the VAT/sales tax was 5% with heating or 20% if just cooling, which more than covered the equipment cost difference.
I do exactly the same, also with Daikin which I have found to be efficient and importantly for me - quiet. I heat the whole place with gas CH first thing in the morning and later in the evening - using a Nest thermostat to keep it well controlled - and just the room(s) I’m in during the day. Overall cost is about 30% lower than just using gas - before the recent gas price increases.
So they make systems that can heat and cool at the same time. They are called heat recovery systems. They are more common in commercial settings but I believe LG makes one that can be used for residential. I would say though that the return on investment would be low for a house, since you are usually either all heat or all cool. Whereas a business might have a server room that always needs to be cooled and offices that need to be heated.
daikin are one of the largest firms and do great commercial kit so i wouldn't worry. you can get Heat+cool systems "3 pipe" or "4 pipe" systems but it does increase the cost and in most houses you very rarely need to do both at the same time.. so it's an edge case and you might be cheaper to have to outdoor units instead.
@@mralistair737 My Daikin system is just a multi split - can’t heat and cool at the same time, but not a problem in my home. Their indoor evaporators are attractive and quiet too
Heatpump heating is major in Japan. And recently, heatpump system called "EcoCute" is used as hot water boiler, which is used for bathing, floor heating.
I installed a Blue Ridge 2 head mini split system into my small (576sqft) home, and it was easy. My friend had a vacuum pump, and we did it all in probably 2 days of work, most of which was drilling holes in the block walls. I think all in it was less than $2500, and seems to work great. Thanks for the recommendation of a heat pump! Otherwise i would've gone with window units and space heaters lol.
I recently installed a multisplit system in my home to get some cooling on increasingly hot summer months. But getting a more efficient heating system as well was a great bonus. Coupled with my municipal heat system (that also provides endless warm water) and a ventilation system with heat reclaiming I now have a lot of fine tuning to do :)
10:45 you can also wire through the inside unit as well, it doesn't actually matter as long as you have a large enough amperage circuit. Electricity flows both ways.
Interesting, I've never seen that as an option for any of the units I've installed.
I love this channel. That said, "insulate, insulate, insulate" is kinda wrong. The most important part of the equation is air sealing. You are far better off focusing on reducing air infiltration and leakage than insulating. Once you've done everything you can to reduce losses from air leakage, then you should insulate.
I did also say that this includes weatherizing, but I get your point. And then of course there's the problem of ventilation! HRVs are something I intend to cover soon.
@@TechnologyConnections a video about HRVs and ERVs would be great. I'm in the high performance building industry and it's a very misunderstood part of building science. Ventilation is really coming into it's own now with integration of self balancing systems and "home run" designs like what Zehnder is offering.
It'd be great to address the "buildings need to breath" controversy!
The biggy is still insulation after draught proofing. My dad refuses to insulate the loft "because it looks bad"
This being said, heat pumps aren't necessarily cost saving if your heating is powered by natural gas. It's cleaner and greener, sure but gas (in the UK at least) is still 4 to 5 times cheaper than electricity even with current prices .
I've not seen any heat pumps that have an average COP of 5+ over the year. I refuse to get AC even as our summers get warmer, because Holy shit that's expensive
The other biggy is that hear pumps are at least £8K here for an ASHP
It would be cool if the building could introduce a little fresh air during the optimal time of day when the temperature differential was at a minimum. I've always wondered how we don't eventually suffocate indoors sometimes, but I guess it's just not sealed like a space ship, plus opening doors. But still, I know there have been studies about indoor CO2 levels and productivity in office buildings, so it's something to think about.
but didn't the research come out that suggests sealed homes may be not very good for the well being of the occupants and the structure? I don't remember the specifics, just that it might have been a thing.
44:00
This is literally what my dad did to deal with the excess heat in my bedroom as a teenager. Didn't put a unit in the window, just cut a unit-shaped hole in the wall, crammed it through that hole and filled the border with foam followed by wood trim.