Pink Floyd: The Feud, Substances & Sackings | The Dark Side of the Floyd
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Pink Floyd have been in the media most recently for that Gilmour and Waters feud. In this video I examine the lead up to the breakdown in the band's relationships, substance abuse and sackings. The Dark Side of the Floyd
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#pinkfloyd #rogerwaters #davidgilmour
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i care not for their childish ways but remember the great music they have given to me since my childhood,no other band touched me like these guys
When "The Australian Pink Floyd Show” broke up, Gilmour quipped “Not even the fake Pink Floyd can get along..."
wait what? That band is on tour right now. They came thru Arizona
It's a surrogate band.....@@brianhall3268
I think the crux of this is Gilmour reforming Pink Floyd in the 1980s without Waters, after everyone had assumed the band had broken up and everyone would be busy with their solo careers. Waters could not believe they did this and has never forgiven Gilmour for doing so with Mason and Wright. Note what Gilmour called the first album after reformation, "a momentary lapse of reason". Or even "the division bell". Even these titles are revealing.
We can argue about everyone's respective contribution toward the 'classic Pink Floyd', whatever we regard that to be, but at the heart of the feud is the legal action and Waters' anger at Gilmour for reforming the band and name without him.
It's all very tiresome, an old dispute around bruised egos, it divides fans, and in my opinion this has tarnished the legacy of the band.
Zakly
good post!
Pink Floyd after the Rogers is a coverband at best IMO. ... and a one hit wonder with High Hopes.
Have watched this band live since the early seventies. The tours of 87 and94 were fantastic and that includes listening to old and new material. You could say Rogers tours are him with a cover band trying to recreate that classic Floyd sound. But hey he had a great deal to do with that sound so good luck to him. It’s just that apart from amused to death I don’t tend to play his other solo work that often whereas I do listen on a regular basis to the Division Bell and a momentary Lapse quite often. Each to his own.
Gilmour made it perfectly clear to Waters that he would carry on, so it's not like it was some big secret or anything.
The best way to discuss how intricate this feud has been is just listen to the lyrics of "Lost For Words" on The Division Bell. You don't need to be in either Gilmour or Waters camp its just better to enjoy the music Pink Floyd has put together whether you only like the early stuff or all of it. I prefer just to enjoy all of it.
I like following a feud ....its more interesting nowadays
On the Saturday just gone, I went to see Nick Masons Saucerful of Secrets concert. The first thing Nick said as his introduction was "This is not the Roger Waters show" It was absolutely amazing.
I think it's a bit childish to participate in any of these feuds and pick sides like Lennon vs McCartney, Mick vs Keith. Band members at some point fall out with each other and some find to each other again, but we don't ever really know all the details. In the end it is about the music.
i just love it when multi millionaires are writing angry anti-capitalist lyrics
Ha ha! Hypocrites all! Don't forget Henley.
I wouldn’t say Mason, Wright and Gilmour were anti capitalists… Mason was born into the upper class. But yes Waters (who was a socialist) 💯 guilty.
As Jorge Luis Borges once described Argentina and Britain's Falkland's War, "Two bald men fighting for a comb." It could easily be applied to the feuds and disputes between Roger Waters and David Gilmour.
Evita vs Maggie?
@@FuturePast2019 Lol
Galtiere vs Maggie... large part of final cut is greatly influenced by the Falkland war... "Galtiere took the union jack" is a line from that album. Evita think of her what you will had been dead for 30 years. But I understand where you were going
@@elijahgiter9559 Great piece of writing.
One of the best overviews of the Floyd catastrophe. Waters putting out a remake of Dark Side is unfathomable. But no matter what side you take, Mrs Gilmor's comments are unforgivable. Totally out of order. She really should keep her mouth shut!
david rick and nick did the same thing in 1996 - they re-recorded dsotm and released it as part of the pulse tour live album package . no one blinked an eye - they also sold it as a pay per view event which made quite a bit of money . THIS FACT says all that needs to be said about the bias surrounding the legacy of this band . Dave gets a pass but roger is the devil. i feel badly about how the " fans" have treated roger . so many people saying terrible things like " he deserves hate " calling roger all these awful names . this guy created the most socially aware music that exists but people just love to attack roger. like your self when you said waters actions are "unfathomable" when dave rick an nick did the EXACT same thing in 1996 . this is an ignorant thing to say as it defines ignorance . thank you for illustrating the issue so perfectly . Roger never had a cocaine addiction , that was dave and rick . The other side of the coin is biased youtube channels muddying the waters, theorizing about how much of a meglomaniac waters had become , and further making things more one sided . every music channel out there is doing fued videos where they claim to be fair , but ultimately they throw shade towards roger and the comment sections reflect the bias i am on about. people forget the FACT that roger wrote all of the lyrics and most of the music . ROGER was at the helm . the proof is in the albums . daves pink floyd compared to rogers? you have to be joking. First and foremost i am a roger waters fan , secondly i am a pink floyd fan as an after thought , because being a pink floyd fan means you have to constantly attack RW , whom i happen to admire dearly . there are a lot of FM radio floyd fans is what it is . these fans who their first time smoking a J was to learning to fly on the BUZ Wbuz with bop bop and skinny man in the morning at the wake-n-bake zoo . no thanks .
Why? It was entirely his album lyrically (so, yup, not OTR, GGITS nor ACYL): you have the right to reimagine your own creation: doesn't affect the original's continued existence, does it? The spouse bit is mere static.
@@peteytwofinger The Post Waters trio played Dark Side of the Moon as it was recorded, I think there is a difference . I wonder how old you are Pete, I am guessing your love of Rogers work probably began with The Wall or later.
I started listening to Pink Floyd around 1970 when the band was a functioning democracy with each member contributing. My Brother got me into them, but he stopped listening after DarkSide because he didn’t like the way he thought Roger had taken them over back then. He liked the psychedelic stuff. My era was the next phase, when the albums were constructed in the studio. They all contributed, and Rick Wright brought much to the sound at that time, including on DarkSide and Wish you Were Here. You can clearly here his influence on Animals particularly the tracks developed before the release of Wish. Rick wrote A Great Gig in the Sky. Us and Them was a tune Rick Wrote for Zabruski Point, which he worked with Roger ( who wrote the lyrics for Ricks tune) to adapt it into Us and Them. Gilmour added guitar parts and Nick Mason was behind a lot of the effects. So although Roger was the main architect of Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here, these were very much group efforts. It is a fact that Roger was responsible for the concept themes and lyrics, but the music was mainly a group effort. It was only after Wish that Roger brought it and demanded pre written content.
I am foremost a Pink Floyd fan, as an introvert I identify with Richard. Roger never really liked him from the beginning when they were at College. They were opposite personalities and Roger didn’t understand Rick and interpreted his laid back demeanour as laziness. When Pink Floyd went on holiday together in San Tropez eyewitnesses have said that Roger treated Rick like a punchbag. Roger was also deeply jealous of Ricks immense talent he displayed with minimal effort. I believe it was a quote Rick made when asked about the lyrics of Echoes that said “the words didn’t matter” that angered Roger into taking charge, first of the lyrics but ultimately the band. I also believe from that moment it was only time before Rick would be forced out of Pink Floyd.
As a Pink Floyd fan, I have no hate for Roger, and I don’t think many fellow Pink Floyd fans do either. I recognise that Roger was an essential part of Pink Floyd, he at least co wrote the best songs and he was the driving force. To the contrary it is those who I call Rogers fan boys who vent their hate on David and his wife, Pink Floyds later albums and their earlier stuff.
I don’t like The Final Cut and much of The Wall, but don’t say it’s crap or any of the colourful expressions Rogers fanboys use to describe The Division Bell. As for Polly, the comments are off the scale. The few hateful comments to Roger come from David fan boys who are equally as bad, and I only wish is those elderly gentleman find a way to resolve their differences and the fanboys in both camps butt out and mind their own business.
My take on it was Pink Floyd had one goal to be successful, once they achieved that they had nowhere to go, apart from Roger who had deeply personal issues which he wanted to express on record, but were not the bands. David and Rick were not interested, which frustrated Roger. These were four guys that just couldn’t work together anymore, and if it wasn’t for dodgy investments, they would have gone their separate ways after Animals, leaving Pink Floyd’s legacy intact.
Some of your FACTS are actually opinions, as are those RUclips videos you complain about. Roger wasn’t Pink Floyd, certainly wasn’t even the leader pre Meddle when he didn’t write all of the lyrics until DarkSide. Pre Animals he didn’t write most of the music and all is very irrelevant because together they were Pink Floyd and in my opinion they were better together. There are as many feud videos on both sides of the argument, there is no bias, you are letting your sense of balance skewed by your opinion as a Roger fan.
Finally David’s albums certainly compare more favourably than Rogers Final Cut. A Momentary Lapse of Reason sold twice as many copies as the Final Cut . The Division Bell sold almost four times as many, probably because there were three Floyds to one and it sounds like Pink Floyd.
I respect you for acknowledging that you are a Waters fan, and our tastes are different. I expect you prefer the poetry of Amused to Death and I prefer the ambiance music in Atom Heart Mother, Shine on You Crazy Diamond pt 9 and Echoes. Neither of us are right or wrong, just respect the difference. My only one wish from Roger and his disciples is they acknowledge the contributions of Nick Rick and David. They were better together.
It's only natural for a spouse to defend the other. Polly Sampson is very much a steadfast ally of her husband. And Roger Waters is in many ways a prick. He's talented, I don't hate him, but he is a prick. And his Dark Side Redux just doesn't cut it.
It’s so bizarre that I sometimes wonder if they have a secret pact to release statements like this to remind people that they still exist and to promote Rog’s solo tours. It sounds crazy but…
I like to think the problem was mainly a developing personality clash between Wright & Waters. They were poles apart. Gentle, quiet Rick Wright had his ego too. A songwriter flatmate, and bandmate of Syd in early Floyd his style was more 60s. Gentle flower power pop & psychedelia. Summer of 68? Then post Barrett, Waters ideas as a writer and composer start to develop the classic Floyd pioneering space, prog, art rock fusion. Albeit then in a more amicable democratic 'band of brothers' type arrangement. At this point Wright starts taking a backseat becoming less of a frontman and more of a band member. Whilst Waters Floyd career gradually flourishes going the opposite way due to his successful writing credits on Floyd albums. Especially in their so called classic period. Gilmour as axeman, always a given frontman, enjoying the opportunities, that mainly Waters as writer and conceptualist, afforded his obvious talent to interpret. Wright was the one holding that altogether with his signature keyboard style. An essential musical element to Pink Floyd that remained relevant. Wheras his songs just stopped flowing. In fact by WYWH Waters was writing or coming up with or approving just about everything. Rick famously aired his grudges and greivances in Public about this around 1978 in Wet Dream promo interviews.
Next thing Wright and Waters are at loggerheads. The former experiencing relationship issues and demotivated, the latter frustrated by his problems, with an album deadline to meet. Wright refuses to end a holiday and this seems to be another way of him annoying Waters who in turn has refused to let him produce The Wall. Waters, Gilmour Maaon and Ezrin have meetings and the band push him out to the margin of all things band member Floyd. Not just Waters. The Wall has very few, if any, Rick Wright moments.
Meanwhile Waters gets told that he's the best thing since 'sliced bread' and although not self aware, is inclined to believe so and Floyd are now his propaganda machine.
Gilmour realises too late and has nothing much to offer new anyway apart from what he is best at being guitar contributions and vocalist for Waters lyrics.
Waters eventually pulls the plug on his Floyd career by resigning his band membership Xmas 1987. Opening the way for Gilmour & Mason to bring Wright back into the fold, albeit long and convoluted. Irony alert!😊
Waters solo career not as commercially successful as the 'big brand name' Pink Floyd gets some overtures to rejoin the band. He flatly refuses any such idea A bit like the Peter Gabriel & Genesis reunion Waters is required for a DSOM type tour
Anyway Waters & Wright eventually meet backstage again in the late 90s and all seems amicable. By this time Waters has long seen Gilmour & Polly as the problem and not Wright. After all both agreed that leaving Floyd was at one time or another best. In a way they cancel each other out leaving Gilmour only Mason to get around.
Crucially though Wright is still in the band up to his death and has a pact with Gilmour never to let Waters or his ego dominate the band again. Reinforced by their experience at Live8. Mason looks on bemused at proceedings.
For me Rick Wright is the silent assassin in all of this and Roger Waters is the architect of his own and Floyd's eventual downfall as a credible musical force during these 'long' Gilmour years of rule.
It's a pity, that the band has dissolved into never ending feuding and acrimony. Floyd were and are greater than the sum of their parts. Then fame and ego slowly tarnished the good name. Happy families it is not and over for good.
At least we stilll have their music.
"Silent assassin": hmm, most interesting (provocative!) take there: since never been an official RW biography, perhaps he got his own back for his 'sacking' and Rog will forever 'serves him 'right' (!) / pay' for that, through a sorta 'from the grave' like outcome!
RW shot himself in the foot by being a bit of a megalomaniac and thinking he was PF and quitting. DG is an old curmudgeon who having fought for the right to be PF has done very little with it for years but it's now his "ball" and no one can play unless he says so. IMO PF doesn't really work without both of them but it also stopped working with both of them and so now, for different reasons, neither of them can be PF.
Excellent summation
I've seen PF with and without Waters. He wasn't missed!
One can say that sans Richard Wright, who can't come back of course, there is no Pink Floyd.
David and Nick never claimed to be a better band without Roger and they weren't. Having said that, I'll take 3/4 of PF any day. They were amazingly fun and exciting shows. I don't give a damn what Roger or anyone else saysl or thinks. I'm personally thankful they did continue. Also, i would like to say i attended Roger's Radio KAOS Show at the Omni in Atlanta Georgia and it too was a fantastic show. It remains my favorite Roger solo album. It wssn'tall complete gloom and doom. It wss a great time to be a Floyd fan
You summed up my feelings exactly, both the 3/4th group, and Roger’s solo efforts produced great concerts, even if the albums were less than the classic Floyd. I just regret that I never got to see the original lineup in concert! I went to my very first concert just mere months after Floyd played the Animals tour in my town! Damn!
All the recent stir up about Waters’ redux of Dark Side was just nonsense! It is no threat to the legacy of the original! It is more like an audiobook or poetry reading with a different take on the music! The snide comments from both sides were totally unnecessary. Almost seems purposefully created controversy to bring publicity and attention!
I think we are lucky that they have left us with some great music . In 2005 when they did live 8 most Floyd fans thought maybe just 1 show to say farewell to the fans. Poor nick mason would jump at the chance to play with the pair of them again , I’m glad he’s doing the saucer full of secrets tour . Shine on you crazy diamonds
There is that added element of Roger Waters being infuriated that David Gilmour's Pink Floyd were selling out arenas with "Waters songs" while Waters couldn't fill small venues.
Not all those songs are Roger's. A lot of the ones played were co-written by Gilmour or Wright or even Mason, lyrics mostly by Walters. Great songs generally have great hooks with average to great lyrics.
Never under estimate the brand name, DG solo would undersell against a Guy Pratt led Pink Floyd
Rogers first two albums, imo, weren't great. (Not that momentary lapse was either).
@@riversandroots Pros and Cons with EC?
@@PinkFloydCollectorsguy pratt led the DG years of PF?
In my opinion this is the best summary of these PF issues. It’s disappointing that the band’s legacy is now often discussed in the prism of judging Waters and Gilmour’s ethical and moral performance, declaring a winner, and pouring scorn on the other side. Barry avoided this so expertly it was almost weird to hear a balanced account.
They have both bettered my life so of course I wish they weren’t adversaries. Not for my benefit, but for theirs. But Waters and Gilmour are both proud and accomplished artists who have been entangled financially, personally, legally, and artistically for decades. Naming one conjures the other. I’m not surprised there’s a shed load of various wounds that can’t heal. And all we see is the tip of an iceberg, which isn’t the best sample size to so emphatically judge strangers.
I was surprised, and grateful, that I could see them together just once at Live 8. I didn’t think there was going to be any more though. Dave had the same look on stage that I used to have when I was stuck at my in laws for the weekend.
With perfect hindsight, it has always felt to me that Roger Waters never understood, or will understand, that his best work was greatly improved by the contributions of David, Richard, and Nick. Even if in essence they had nothing to do with the songwriting or lyrics.
True, but the reverse is also very true - that they did their best work with Roger. It's the chemistry and combination of talents that made peak Floyd so great.
I think he DID understand that his work was improved by the other three, and that's whats been bugging him ever since. He's a talented writer, but is sorely lacking in musical chops. Gilmour and Wright's flair for embellishing Waters basic tracks was a constant thorn in his paw...
Roger somehow got it right on Amused to Death, but was helped by lots of talented people.
Gilmour and Wright had a lot to do with songwriting for the music in the best PF's albums (Meddle, DSOTM and WYWH in my opinion). There wouldn't be Pink Floyd without them.
they don't know the real story@@ClericusVagans67
I love your videos about Pink Floyd. Mind you, I like all your videos, but I could hear you talking about Pink Floyd all day.
My wife has to listen to it all day.
I clicked this as a Pink Floyd fan, and was even more delighted to see your shirt as a Robert Cray fan!!
Its a given that some musicians tend veer towards ego out of control. I have few issues with Water's take on politics. Its at least honest and does resonate, or not. People should listen and read more carefully. Waters is more interesting now than he used to be in Pink Floyd
I still listen and watch Pink Floyd 'Live at Pompeii' 1972 the set list is brilliant. Its as much high performance art as it is playing music to an audience not there. It holds up well
It was part of early life going to the lasarium to listen and watch the effects to Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon.
Or setting up a portable hi fi around a campfire in the middle of nowhere and listening to the Floyd. It was all good.
To hell with the hearsay and social media rumblings. Shit they are allowed to hate each other. Does not change anything. For fleeting instances they were all on point and that is a miracle
Thing that annoys me about Gilmour is that he went through all that to keep the Floyd name etc but then he effectively ended the group just after 2 big tours/albums.
True point I do agree he waisted so much time not doing anything with mason and wright!!
LOVE the Robert Cray shirt!! One of my favorite blues artists ever👊🏼
It is a nice shirt
Great vid man, very interesting, really enjoyed that, love Floyd and all the madness !!!
Much as I consider Wright an essential part of the Floyd musically, the "holiday" episode had more to do with the fact that the band had been bankrupted and it was only Waters' idea for The Wall that they were hedging their future bets on.
Given that, I don't think anyone could blame Waters for hitting the ceiling while he's trying to save all of their bottom lines with his songs and album concept and another member of the band is too busy sailing yacht to throw in.
Not the right solution, but I can't say I blame him. It's every group project from school gone wrong with a few million dollars in debt hinging on success.
On the other hand I don’t blame Richard, obviously depressed by the situation he found himself in. A painful divorce, the financial situation the band found themselves in, and Richard’s diminishing position in the band having to toe the line playing to a style that neither suited him nor he was interested in. Can you blame Richard for wanting to spend his holiday with what was left of his family, instead of spending that time slavishly playing bit parts(that would be largely drowned by an orchestra) for the guy who relentlessly bullied him for the previous 12 years?
I see both sides of the coin, and who are we to judge? None of us were there. Why do we blame the individuals who entertained us with their collective brilliance? Especially when the very people that really created this mess, the corrupt investment company who ran away with Pink Floyd’s millions got off Scott Free and apparently blame free.
@@glumonion1454 Fair points all around. Sadly, most of this could probably have been resolved if the band members had sat down and aired grievances instead of doing that "Keep Calm & Carry On" thing.
Pleased this has been added for 'latter' fans to realise (particularly the 'Rog was a tyrant' usual, but completely misguided, assessment - viz. "save all their bottom lines") fortunately, coz of 'The Wall', the band weren't "bankrupted", but indeed in financial peril coz of Norton Warburg shenanigans (look it up; presumably all their DSOTM earnings therein?): so they had a dire need to produce product; so, yup, normally, why should you come home early from your hols - unless some greater urgency takes preference=your call who was 'right' there (Rick or Rog, huh?):+ Rog has many times reported, he pleaded for 'joint' ideas, but got little (from RW, nothing, apparently: "no one home"): I believe even DG has also - begrudgingly - admitted this.
@@BOFsensai Overall, it's a pity because we get the sense that success (and, in fairness, Waters' forceful personality to at least some extent) kind of ruined Wright and he went from being an equal writer of some very interesting songs in the early days to barely being bothered to end his vacation to play on albums by the late '70s.
I really loved those quirky singles he wrote in the '60s and wish he'd kept working his craft instead of being content to contribute musical bits and the odd complete song later on.
Then again, he would hardly be the first (or last) to hit that point of "We've made it and I'm rich so I don't have to try so hard anymore."
Well you'd figure after Syd they would be a little more sensitive to booting out bandmates who checked out. Seems like a conversation would have solved a lot. He did put out the terrific Wet Dream album around that time, I often wonder if the band moving in a direction he wasnt going in had a lot to do with the disconnect and indifference. Like trying to get GG Alin to contribute postively to Seasons in the Sun.
To this day I consider Momentary Lapse of Reason and all "Pink Floyd" albums to follow to be David Gilmour (& friends) albums. They are good albums, but they do not sound like Pink Floyd to me, not without Roger Waters, warts and all. In my iTunes/Apple Music library, I have renamed them as David Gilmour albums. Ironically, as much as The Final Cut is really a Roger Waters album, it still sounds reminiscent of Pink Floyd to me.
Frankly I've grown beyond weary of the Gilmour v. Waters feud. I don't care anymore, and I didn't much to care to start with. I just play the music.
As for Dark Side of The Moon, I have my high-fidelity MFSL gold disc and that's the one and only for me, as far as Pink Floyd goes. It was mixed perfectly in 1973 by Alan Parsons and doesn't need more fiddling, remixing, and re-marketing. As far Waters' new version, I think it's fine based on what I've heard so far---it's a completely new and markedly different interpretation, not an attempt to replace the original.
Finally, it is shame that these grown men were given everything, the luckiest of the lucky, to play their music on the worlds largest stage with carte blanche to express their art and receive all the benefits that come with it---and then quickly take it for granted and throw it away over insecurities, vanity, and petty differences. To think of all the wonderful music left unwritten and unplayed. C'est la vie.
David has many great solos on that album.
These are well sounding albums, but lack the Waters touch imho.
Gilmour and Waters’ ongoing foolishness makes one really appreciate how the Beatles and Zep camps currently manage their respective legacies. Much more respect and grace than what has become of the Floyd. Shameful.
and that's remembering that from what I can tell Page and Plant really don't get along - Page has wanted to Plant to reform and tour for decades, with Plant steadfastly refusing to. They mostly (always?) kept it civil. It no doubt helps they sold more albums than just about anyone in the 70's and beyond and can't reasonably need the cash.
@@grahamgreene779 Although it is true that Plant never will agree to reforming Zeppelin, Page and Plant are very close friends. Besides Page will be 80 in December and is pretty much retired.
@@lilajagears8317 i meant more in the 80s-90s i guess? But I didn't realize they were close, that's interesting to know. I suppose I'd heard somewhere that Page was sore at Robert for refusing to sing/tour etc. If that was even true it appears they got over it quickly.
@@grahamgreene779 They had the highly successful Page/Plant tour in the 90s as well as a fantastic album they recorded in 1999 called "walking into Clarksdale".
No, if you see Jimmy and Robert together you know that's wrong@@grahamgreene779
It would be good if Waters and Gilmour realised their fued is not just crapping on their legacy, but their former band mates' as well.
It might be fair to say that PF was no longer THAT PF after the Waters/Gilmore rift, but I would also posit that it wasn't THAT PF following Syds decline and subsequent...orphaning. And I think it's fair to say that Waters never, ever should have relegated Wright to some second tier studio musician status within the group. Waters, IMO, had pretty much elected himself leader of the band - brilliant lyricist and exploratory musician notwithstanding - but I could see, especially as of The Wall, that this incredibly prescient group of musicians were beginning to be shoehorned into something akin to RW's backing group, with his lyrics taking center stage. I realize that post Waters PF isn't everyone's cup of tea and thats fine - but I would rather have a much more instrumental PF as opposed to a never ending lyrical diatribe referencing the long ago Syd debacle and Waters daddy issues from the war, which were interesting and timely themes in their day but were threatening to be absolutely done to death as time went on - and if that had happened, I fear, they would have become a parody of themselves. Just my take, and of course YMMV.
I just like the way you contextualise these things. There is a bloody silly 'museum' to their Pompeii gig at the the back of the wee colosuem there. I was appalled. In amongst all that historoilogial gravitas, RR is moaning over a tannoy about the pros and cons of that gig. Luckily, Italians south of Milan don't speak much English, so the focus is on the tunes only. Lucky them I suppose. Cheers.
I thought it was a mistake by Gilmour to have Polly write the lyrics for the 'new' Pink Floyd songs. Talking about the song 'Poles Apart' in an interview, she explains that the first verse is about Syd, presumably from David's perspective: "Did you know It was all going to go so wrong for you? And did you see It was all going to be so right for me?". It sounds pretty cold and almost childishly vindictive. Certainly not befitting the situation. She states that the second verse was about Waters. She's a 3rd rate lyricist and she should never have been allowed to colour their work IMO.
Like Yoko writin lyrics for Lennon
@kinggizzard, I find it disturbing the how David left Ginger the way he did. She even asked " Is David going to have his manager ask me for a divorce? (Supposedly)
Funny how you state Waters felt the studio during the recording of Animals felt like a prison, since Britannia Row was created by the Floyd so they could record at any time rather than having to schedule time at Abbey Road, and built to their specifications. Of course, we all know the actual sound/mix of the original Animals recording did not turn out exactly as they wanted, due to the studio not being completely finished, and being rushed by Harvest/Columbia, which is why we now have Animals 2018...and don't get me started on that! These two 'elderly gentlemen' are more concerned about their feud than their legacy and both are doing their best to tarnish their relationship with the fans, at every turn.
Mr Nice Guy Nick Mason is stuck between 2 school kids chucking stones at each other.
All this makes the release of those 75-77 studio outtakes and live recordings.
G’day from Melbourne, Australia. New sub here and thanks for your great content. I will be working my way through your videos. Thanks again 😘
Gilmore’s recent collaboration foray with the Orb whose classic Fluffy little clouds arguably held the mantle for progress rock through the turn of the century seems to have given an interdependence to the genre that transcended the identity politics inherent in capitalist pop rock.
Barry, your comments are always insightful, even on a very familiar subject, like this one. But what really endears your videos to me is that there's usually at least one wickedly irreverent deadpan remark that really cracks me up -- this time it was the Al Capone line. Well done, sir.
It's really an enigma to know how these guy interacted with each other. I don't blame Waters, I do believe that Gilmour and Wright were not appreciative of Water's efforts to push the band forward (kind the situation with Alan Wilder in Depeche Mode, except Wilder left). Roger always was behind the shadow of Barret which shows how important and talented Syd was when he was lucid.
All in all, despite the constant bickering and veiled insults thrown at each other, Waters remain extremely respectful to his band mates and defends them from clueless journalists as he did recently in the midst of the Polly Samson mental breakdown..
As in all relationships, when respect is lost, there's no way to save it.even after Waters tried to bury the hatchet after Live 8, inviting Gilmour to play as guest in a couple gigs. Aspersions must have resurfaced, unfortunately, and not all the good will in the world would iron the rough spots.
It really boggles my mind how Polly Samson dared to get a go at Roger for not supporting a group of people who support and reveres those responsible for the death of his father. Talk about cluelessness.
Pink Floyd was the sum of its parts, but Roger assembled those parts, so I'm on team Roger.
I don't get this wanking about Syd Barrett. He had literally nothing to do with the great albums of Floyd. A great friend and inspiration for the Floyd members, but it just seems so irrelevant now. Not once has Syd displayed the talent we hear on the 70s albums. He's a talented and quirky fella that made one decent album in the 60s.
Really interesting hearing your take on all this.
Many thanks indeed
Thank you. As a true Pink Floyd devotee for over 50 years I had never heard that Rick had earned fabulous renumeration due to claiming his rightful expenses. He showed the perennially bitter Roger that there was more than one way to 'skin a cat'
The one thing I can say with certainty is neither could've accomplished alone what they did together. What I wouldn't give to see them do Grantchester Meadows together.
I heard that Syd still received royalty checks way after he was dropped from Pink Floyd.
Also, I believe that the 2019 remix version of "A Momentary Lapse Of Reason" has Nick Mason playing all the drums, with additional keyboards by Richard Wright.
Roger made SURE Syd received his royalties. Dave did as well. They loved Syd.
I'm not really qualified to make judgement calls since I am not involved in their lives but it seems hateful of David to lock Roger out of the official Pink Floyd website while allowing Polly to hype her books on it.
one other thing of note is that following the court decision they split the albums as well with Waters keeping the Wall and Final Cut album rights and the ability to tour them.
In a world of such instability & uncertainty, it would be nice to see these two gentlemen, these two camps, lead by example...
Thanks for this discussion--you're always interesting and informative, but you're also very fair in your assessments (I don't think I'd be able to hold back, were it me). 25 years ago, I thought Waters was one of the coolest guys on earth, but in recent years that opinion has completely eroded. We mourn artists that went away too young and too soon, but one of the worst things that can REALLY happen is lasting too long.
Pink Floyd The Soap Opera.
Jolly good fun😂
Just an argument or thought.
I would only say that Nick’s memoir - Inside out came out around 2004, before Live 8. It was Roger who displayed higher moral ground to reunite for that one-off. So whatever Nick has written could be influenced more in the time period of Gilmour?
So what if there was no Roger Waters pushing the band to write and to come up with their contributions? Even David agreed that most of the time there wasn’t anything from anyone which led to WYWH & Animals. David did expressed that the The Wall music was bit naff but again there wasn’t much from them to contribute. They were given a fair opportunity to choose The Wall or Pros & Cons. Thankfully the band opted The Wall.
So then let’s remove the lyrics and perspective of concept albums which made the Pink Floyd so tall and larger than life… could the music be same without the imagery of storyline (lyrics)?
Lastly, I wonder why any true Pink Floyd fan should even give support to Polly’s tweet? She just put the last nail in the coffin…
Others on this commentary have rightly pointed out that - at the the time of the '78- '79 'Wall' preparation / release - the urgency of getting 'product' out for the band because of their Norton Warburg financial advisers contretemps: which becomes a salient aspect to keep in mind when Rog's "megalomania" is bandied: since by which case, you could equally argue he moved to be their financial 'saviour' at the time: note, yes, DG & R(ick)W had solos: none of which (RW especially*) was shared with Rog for joint PF compositions: latterly, yes, DG had what would become 'C.Numb' & 'OTRun' - which WERE used! (*Altho admittedly, RW's lyricism stuff was very painfully personal: but the tunes were presumably there, but NOT to be shared.)
My opinion (and clichés😆) is that Richard Wright was the soul of Pink Floyd. Roger Waters was the substance and power of Pink Floyd. David Gilmour was the voice and melody of Pink Floyd. Nick Mason was the Heartbeat and adhesive of Pink Floyd. Norton Warburg were the capitalist fuckpig thieving destroyers of Pink Floyd, and for that reason alone I can forgive Roger of his anti capitalist sentiments. Finally there are two RW’s in Pink Floyd and when either were missing the finished product just wasn’t the same, not the full Floyd.
When speaking of the two RW’s one was actually the combination of Rick and David, because when they played and sang together something very magical happened sonically that was clearly missing on The Wall , The Final Cut and A Momentary Lapse of Reason. Equally Rogers contributions especially his magic with words were missing after he left.
The only positive from the Norton Warburg catastrophe is without them we probably wouldn’t have had The Wall (not at least as a Pink Floyd album) because I am convinced that they would have all taken their riches and gone their separate ways after Animals.
Gilmour is the voice but Rogers is the soul.
When they last played at the live aid thing,waters was all exited "we could do this, play that" gilmore was having none of it."youve been asked to play 4 songs,for half hour,with pink floyd inc"..etc,etc
Even my parents liked dark side of the moon. What an album.
And they all wrote stuff on that one.
A story dealing with the original lineup of The Pretenders would be great. Just reading the Pretenders' portion of Chrissie Hynde's autobiography 'Reckless' is a cautionary tale of what a band should not do to survive. Literally.
Great video! I actually quite like The Division Bell, and recently bought the live cd set Delicate Sound of Thunder - and Roger's DSOM redux, but have yet to give it a full listen through! It's often said that when someone leaves a band - for whatever reason - it's possibly over! Yet Gilmour and co just carried on and still had a massive following! Look what happened with Dream Theater - just replace Portnoy with Mangini - and carry on! And sound even better!
Not much in the way of new information here, but there were a great many words to the presentation....life is short, we all need to learn to edit
The 2023 version is gonna be available separately soon i wonder what those boxsets will sell for now...
I think in reality Gilmour was very very lucky Waters let him sing most of his dark side songs.
Maybe, but Gilmour was a better singer than Waters, so the songs benefited from that IMO
Very enjoyable as always, keep up the good work sir
Thank you kindly!
Must have felt so strange when Rick Wright - A key member of the Band, is 'sacked' and then allowed to come back as a 'jobbing' musician with The Floyd?! And, no wonder, things were so frosty between Gilmour and Walters at 'Live 8'!!!
When someone mentally can’t perform there’s no choice but to fire that musician
Mmmm it just seems Roger is doing this re-recording out of spite...
Powerful review beautifully presented and written. The Michael Parkinson of the review channels. Well done again Barry
Glad you enjoyed it!
And if they were good men they'd understand the spaces between friends
Interesting take on a much told tale - nicely done!
Syd Barrett laid the foundation and is the inspiration for 90% of anything Floyd did after him that was any good. DSOTM, WYWH, Animals and The Wall all reference or are a homage to him. If you’re not thinking of Syd when you listen to these albums/songs, you’re missing the point. Syd is Pink.
Whilst sitting in the pub drinking a pint of mild I heard some rumours. I thought it was about Pink Floyd. I was wrong. After checking the jukebox it was in fact Rumours by Fleetwood Mac. I think I read somewhere that Mick is going to be releasing and singing some of the back catalogue as a solo project. I could be wrong. Worth a try?
For many, many years, I have sided with David Gilmour in the whole Floyd feud. In the past year, however, I am coming around to siding with Roger Waters.
any particular reasons, events that have led to this?
@@grahamgreene779The fact that Gilmour wouldn't allow the original liner notes to be printed in Animal 2018, which led to it not being released until years later might have something to do with that. Those notes indicated how little Gilmour had to do with the work produced, compared to the lies that Gilmour as been saying for years. Gilmour doesn't like the truth coming out, that's the be all and end all.
The Wall surround sound was completed years ago according to their engineer, why the hold up on releasing it. Apparently, similar issues, it's Gilmour who has the Pink Floyd name and it's him, encouraged by his wife would is the problem.
Momentary lapse and division bell are Gilmour solo albums with Pink Floyd name because he knew they would sell more at the time. Only with the passing of time, he can now use his own name and it will still do well. Back then, the sales of his first two solo albums weren't any better than Waters so he knew he needed the name. Unfortunately, Waters lost the court case because Gilmour could use Mason and Wright as weight. The compromise of Wright being a guest on Momentary lapse included in all the fighting.
Wright played more on Division bell but Mason didn't play much on either. Both are Gilmour solo albums in all but name and it shows, as Waters rightly points out and Gilmour hates that he's telling the truth.
I'd believe Waters over Gilmour any day of the week.
@@stuartraybould6433 good stuff - thanks for the info
@@stuartraybould6433 I have a feeling Polly Samson is a big part of the problem.
@@MatthewLewis68 They seemed to be OK during Live8 and Gilmour was a guest at Waters London gigs during his tour of The Wall. Gilmour allowed her comments aimed at Waters to be put on the Floyd website, which in turn sparked another argument. It makes you wonder.
Roger also played mostly a mild bass beat and left plenty of Holes for both Dave and Rick Wright to "fill in" with leads by Dave and fills by Rick! No Songs = NO PINK FLOYD!
Roger has, now, after time has passed, achieved a sense of peace re the band split, ironically it's now Gilmour who for some reason is full of spite. Why? Who knows? Who cares? Roger is carrying on in a sense of splendour, even the 'Redux' of DSOTM seems to be an addition to the original, Not a replacement as some people are thinking, even Nick Mason has stated his love for the 'Redux'.
@Paulharris, Seems like David's Jewish wife has everything to do with it. David defends Uk while Roger knows it's part of the Zionist warmongering agenda. Blackrock (Also Jewish) is heavily invested in the war and even said they love it because they're making a fortune off of it. David and Nick (under the Floyd name) even did a song defending Ukraine. Polly's son is married to a Ukrainian. Despicable. David was so lovely in the 70's and 80's. People change. Ginger said after the lawsuit with Roger David went dark in his heart.
Sampson called Waters an anti-Semite because he is (rightly) critical of Israel and supportive of Palestinians and their human rights.
What a wonderful human being she is. But remember, it’s *Roger* who supports authoritarians (allegedly Putin).
Roger’s politics are well known, but the trite line ‘any critic of Israel hates all Jews’ is just crap and needs to die.
Great video though man. I had never heard of the coke issue in the late 70s. Fascinating
@drjohn, So criticism of the genocide of Palestinians is Anti-Semitic? Have you been to Palestine and seen first hand what's happening? Roger has. As for Putin, Roger knows that the Zionist run NATO criminals are behind the war in Ukraine. He is educated and doesn't get his info from MSM. Polly is Jewish and obviously Zionist. David is owned. It's sickening.
Where we grasp the stinging nettle of interesting listening i find this intresting the freuads in the band why do bands break up why bands members leave a grouop due to disagreaments
It's all childish behaviour from the elderly
@0:52 " . . . boiling away in their own piss . . " - love it!
Waters's power during the The Wall was also due to two causes: they had been swindled and owed HMRC lots of tax. Both Gilmour and Wright had made solo albums, and had little left over whilst Waters had The Wall and The Pros and Cons... The band opted for The Wall and the rest is history, though that economic leverage tipped Waters into a real saviour, in his own megalomania, at least.
@@BOFsensai Comfortably Numb was a left over from Gilmour's solo album and Waters added lyrics. The 1978 solo albums came out as they had no room to add their material to PF as Waters had his concepts and their work was ignored.
@@BOFsensai Nick Mason's book Inside Out.
@@BOFsensai pages 236-243
@@BOFsensai An abject Rog fan. Poor you insofar as you feel you have to jump to his defence. You also didn't read it properly: Read p236 and try to understand it because he did save them which gave him the power to dictate what he wanted and carry on as he had since WYWH by dictating terms as he later did to all over The Wall. Now, if you cannot comprehend that, it is your loss, but the information there and clear enough.
"Oh look, Mummy: there's a feud up in the sky"
A bit of snorting going on on the Animals album, huh?
Classic Album Review would not be the same without the subtle puns!
Outstanding work. Thanks mate
My pleasure!
'Boiling away in their own piss.' Classic! So true.. P.s I love Atom Heart Mother too.
I don't know why to waste so much time with feuds and facts that happened when PF was already a much less creative band. From the Piper at the Gates of Dawn until Wish You Were Here, they were a truly innovative, creative and very unique band (either in melody, lyrics or arrangements). They were by large my favorite psychedelic- progressive rock band until 1975. (Sure, The Wall is a great "rock opera" album.)
And Animals is their absolute best album. With all that raw energy and rough anger. I love music when it is edgy and rough. Piper at the Gates of Dawn is too whimsical for me.
All the great bands seem to have the same outcome…one or two members hating each other’s guts. Tension is maybe what drives the music to a higher level of greatness,
I get the feeling Pink Floyd was never David’s oxygen the way it was for waters.
Don't know about anybody else, but I am just not interested to keep talking about this "feud"...Can we just move on !
I realise that I never really liked the post-Waters Floyd. I never listen to those albums these days anyway...
150 million!? Dammit bud.
It's all very silly and the plain truth of the matter is that they're better together. They each add something that the other lacks. They clearly _can_ get along to some degree, as evidenced by Waters showing up on-stage on Mason's Saucerful tour, and Gilmour turning up on-stage (albeit atop the wall) on Waters' Wall tour, and Mason getting along fine with both of the acrimonious old divorcees.
regarding Polly Samson's hysterical outburst, people seem to be unaware of the fact that Charlie Gilmour is married to a Ukrainian girl and has a half Ukrainian grandchild.
Of course granny's gonna lose the plot and scream first before trying to see the big picture!
(this is from someone who has always believed Waters was the main cause of the split and the 3 other guys were victims of his ego!)
The release of the DSOTM 50th content & Rogers Redux version is more of a coincidence. As the Record Company probably had it set in stone months ago and Rogers release is either done deliberately or it's just a coincidence they are so close to each other.
On Roger Waters recent tour at the Glasgow leg the absence of Dave Gilmour from old Pink Floyd photos and footage on the wrap around overhead screens was very obvious. Furthermore, when Mr Waters waxed lyrical about Syd, Nick, and Rick, the failure to mention Gilmour at all was as damning as any insult could have been.
@spenny, Did you see what Polly said to Roger on Twitter for all the world to see? David backed her up. I'm surprised Roger merely left David out. He could have bashed him big time.
Roger was the artistic driving force - Gilmore is a great guitar player but can’t write songs. The two albums made without Waters are truly dreadful - no substance just a meandering bunch of chords, saying nothing.
The problem with PF is that it's no longer a band. It's just a corporation. The bickering. The constant re-hash. What's it all for ? The good thing about The Jam and The Smiths is that they split at their peak. Imagine if PF had called it a day after DSotM.
No WYWH? No 'A'? No 'W'? NOOOOOOOOOO!!! ;-)
@David is all about the money. Willing to bet Polly has something to do with that.
@@sharonrichards1627 They're all in it for the money. The tragedy is that they don't need it. Collectively, Gilmour, Waters, and Mason are like Smaug hoarding a pile of gold they couldn't possibly spend.
Cheers!
I started following Pink Floyd on July 1973. I bought DSOTM knowing one song, "Money." At the time US radio " bleeped out" the poignant word ' Bullshit' - the do goody- good censors- bullSHIT! I bought DSOTM on the proviso that if the album didn't pass musical muster, then I had two stickers and two posters- which I still have, 50 years later!
I saw the Floyd 9 times, ( 1975- 1994), missing the Nassau Long Island, N.Y Wall . performances in 1981.
I saw Dave 1984, and 2016; Rog in 2007.
I became more of a Gilmour fan. I hated Final Cut- still do. That whole belligerent Rog psychology just didn't work for me. I enjoyed the post Rog Floyd. I did enjoy Rog's 2007 US tour.
I am a fan still today, but did not buy the DSOTM 50TH. How many times would I actually play it, really?!
I am still a Progressive rock fan.,I follow Nick's band.
The last Dave album did not work for me.I saw the 2016 MSG NYC show. It was simply a coda to an excellent eccentric English rock band whose moon has now gone all dark, really. 0:46
To this day I don't understand how Roger Waters had the authority to fire Rick Wright.
Waters probably voice at that time what Gilmour & Mason were silently thinking…
He didn't. What he did was leverage the fact that he was the only one with material for an album to get David and Nick to agree to Rick's ouster. Rick was producing nothing, and the other two weren't much better. They agreed to it for money. David has tried to have it both ways by saying he disagreed with it, but he could have voted no and let Roger take The Wall and walk, but he didn't. roger is certainly an egotistical jerk, but he was a very driven man, and was done f&*ing around.
Good points BUT NOT the 'jerk' (unfair) coz they ALL - (including Rick!) - needed the money! They were in financial jeopardy from the Norton Warburg stuff @@MatthewLewis68
@mournblade, I still can't believe that the Eagles could fire Felder!
@Matthew, David admits he took Rick out to dinner and told him he wasn't contributing enough.
Daves nasel breathing was a real irritation to roger.
Imagine the Rollin Stones being guilty or any regret about Brian jones lol
KEEF
The great shame was that Syd didn't stay, with Dave replacing Roger. Still, they managed two and half great albums - with a few moments from two others.
Read somewhere that Nick Mason wished they had a Genesis/Peter Gabriel relationship with Roger.
Well you have Rogers Ego to thank for that. When Gabriel left Genesis he had no intention of stopping the band from continuing.
simply comes across as ego wars... rather pathetic point scoring that casts a somber shadow over their otherwise celebrated legacy
Ooooh! The dark side! OMG in what context?
Animals still stands as my favorite PF album. Though The Wall has it's high points but it never appealed to me like Animals and Wish You Were Here. When Animals was released l was the guitarist and principal songwriter of q regionally successful punk band. We had signed with a local label and two of the four of us had already assumed that they were rock stars, quit there day jobs and spent most of their time getting wasted. I had the opportunity to get involved in (buying) a business. I decided to leave the band which according to them l was the dirtiest bastard on Earth. That decision led to a very successful business career. The lyrics in Animals reflected what the two bandmates were saying about me. Best choice of my life. The two members still play clubs with our old name doing songs l wrote in 1977.
‘How Left Wing is Roger Waters?’might be a good topic for a future programme (then again, maybe not). I’d say it’s more accurate to say Roger is a politically eclectic individual, given his support for the Countryside Alliance and his marriage (OK, it didn’t last) into the English aristocracy. Plus, no multi-millionaire can be comfortably left-wing.
The idea that someone who espouses leftist ideals must live by some type of higher moral standard as if we were already living in some socialist/post capitalist world is a ridiculous argument made by non leftists that doesn't hold up. The only requirement for being a good socialist / leftist is to devote a significant amount of your activity in life to advancing left-wing causes which, given the amount of time Waters spends on activism (even probably costing him a significant amount of money to do so) & how he is able to amplify left-wing causes to the degree he does with his massive platform from being famous musician, I would say Waters does actually qualify as being an admirable & committed leftist.
@@Chr1551 An evil ideology at loggerheads with human nature.
hahaha@@Chr1551
the usual asinine epigram dressed up as thought.@@sirlawrence9161
You can oppose the war in Ukraine without being pro-Putin. Waters isn't always wrong.
@You can be against the genocide of Palestinians without being Anti-Semitic but not according to the Israelis.
@@sharonrichards1627 There is no such thing as Palestine or Palestinians.
@@JayBee-cr8jm No such things as Isrealis either then! There are plenty of "Jew places" they could move to.
@@illegalewahrheiten2911 Sit down Trumper.
@@sharonrichards1627 What genocide?
Amazing t shirt.
Roger Waters, genius and prophetic guy, David GIlmour, wrote some catchy guitar solos has a nice voice and seems to like making money from a band and songs that really ended after Waters left.
Oof, and I thought The Beatles' split was acrimonious. Dave and Roger were like, "Hold our $100/glass wine."
@mozart, u just saw a video of Glen Frey wanting to kill Don Felder. Seems to go with the territory.
Very well done, sir, with no direct editorialization but plenty of subtle insinuation. A good, concise history.
To throw in my own two cents, to me Gilmour has proved to be a spiteful homme de ressentiment who has compromised his own legacy. And with Polly now leading the Establishment's character assassination and pile-on against Roger with David's endorsement, the disgrace is complete. I had always forgiven him his artistic and personal pettiness, given what he achieved for the Floyd in their heyday (I agree that DSOTM was the end), but now I can no longer look at him the same way again.
I think that Roger Waters is stuck in 1984 because, on some level, he knows that leaving Pink Floyd was the greatest mistake of his career--one he will never recover from. His reasons for trying to dissolve the band remain incoherent, and, if he really believed that he was leaving them to go on to greater fame and riches, robbing them of their band/brand was effectively being a sore winner.
I read those aborted liner notes and it's all common knowledge: no 'gotcha' or 'aha' moments. Nothing was really lost, but again, Rog's stuck in the 80, so he sees it in light of the lawsuit. It's a shame that we didn't get more from Guthrie in terms of the quality of the tapes and the process, but that's just weirdo prog esoteria.
It's also a shame that Rog has never consented to a real debate with a dissenting expert on his geopolitical statements. He's a prickly bastard, but I'm still rooting for him.