Why Roger Waters Left Pink Floyd / 80s Solo Albums
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- Опубликовано: 4 апр 2023
- Extended version on Patreon: / jtcurtis
Before moving on to the David Gilmour led era of Pink Floyd, let's discuss Roger Waters departure from the band in 1985, the infamous lawsuit that led to rock and roll's greatest rivalry and briefly touch on solo albums from the 80s such as Roger's Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking and Radio K.A.O.S. David Gilmour's About Face, Nick Mason's Profiles and Richard Wright's Identity with Zee.
#pinkfloyd #rogerwaters #davidgilmour #lawsuit #albumreviews #historyofrock
Pink Floyd is without a doubt one of the greatest classic rock bands of all time, but this video covers a tumultuous time for the band. They began in the 60s with Roger Waters on bass, Nick Mason on drums, Richard Wright on organ and Syd Barrett on lead guitar and vocals. Syd penned their early singles Arnold Layne and See Emily Play. This would lead to the release of their 1967 album Piper at the Gates of Dawn, featuring classics like Astronomy Domine, Bike and the epic psychedelic instrumental Interstellar Overdrive. Their live shows were equally inventive incorporating unique light shows. However due to Syd's breakdown he would leave the band, being replaced with David Gilmour on guitar. This would become Pink Floyd's classic lineup with Roger taking more of a songwriter role, including the song Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun which would appear on their 1968 album A Saucerful of Secrets. The album was the only to feature all five band members and Syd's final composition with Floyd, Jugband Blues. Through albums like the soundtrack to More and the experimental Ummagumma, Pink Floyd was still finding their voice, focusing more on albums rather than singles, but still producing an occasional classic like Careful with that Axe Eugene. In 1970, Atom Heart Mother proved to be a success with the 23 minute instrumental and featuring Dave's song Fat Old Sun. 1971's Meddle would turn out to be an important staple for the band with the rocking opener One of these Days I'm Going to Cut You Into Little Pieces, featuring a rare spoken vocal by Nick, Roger's echoing bass line and Dave's Slide Guitar. The flip side, another 23 minute piece, Echoes, featuring Dave and Rick on vocals, is often regarded as Progressive Rock's finest moment, from the opening ping of Rick's leslie piano. They would also perform both these songs along with earlier classics Live at Pompeii. The Obscured by Clouds soundtrack appeared in 1972 with tracks like Burning Bridges and Free Four. However 1973's Dark Side of the Moon would become one of the most successful albums of all time, staying on the charts for nearly 13 years and still a best seller today. Roger's lyrics dealt with the evils of society driving one to madness, while the music was nearly one entire inter-connected piece (making it difficult to separate for a playlist or a best of / greatest hits compilation). Still standouts like Money, Time and Great Gig in the Sky are favorites among fans. Their 1975 followup Wish You Were Here, featuring the opening and closing piece Shine On You Crazy Diamond (a tribute to Syd Barrett who even showed up at the sessions), is thought to be equally great, if not greater, as Dark Side. But tensions between the band were beginning to rear their head. 1977 saw the release of Animals, notable for its famous cover. Roger became the band's main frontman and sole songwriter with Dave occasionally sharing the mic and writing credits. Tensions grew during the tour when Roger ended up spitting on a fan in Montreal and coming up with the idea for The Wall to separate himself from the audience. 1979 would see the release of The Wall, the album and later the tour and film. Another Brick in the Wall Part 2 became their best selling single and Comfortably Numb remains one of their most popular tunes. But it nearly broke up the band as Roger fired Rick for lack of output, creating a greater rift between him and Dave. Recycling unused tracks from The Wall sessions, 1983's The Final Cut was Roger's final album with Pink Floyd. Throughout the mid 80s, the members of Pink Floyd released solo albums. In 1985, Roger Waters officially told the record company he was leaving. Dave and Nick decided to carry on reuniting with Rick for 1987's Momentary Lapse of Reason, featuring the song Learning to Fly. Roger sued to break up the band, but failed to do so instead focusing on his solo career. The Gilmour led Floyd would produce 1994's The Division Bell, a return to form for many fans with Rick now sharing vocal and songwriting duties again, along with lyricist Polly Samson. High Hopes has become a fan favorite. It wasn't until 2005's Live 8 concert when Dave, Nick and Rick reunited with Roger for a short set giving closure for many fans. Syd never performed with Pink Floyd again and died in 2006. Rick died in 2008. The album The Endless River was dedicated in his honor. Tensions between Roger and Dave have turned sour again following a twitter war. 
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Hey all, there’s a lot of back and forth in this comments section (so much for my final speech at the end) but to those who have left encouraging comments about the video or contributed to a civilized discussion, thank you so much!
Sorry. I didn't mean anything mean to anyone. I just don't like the way Roger Waters is treating his former bandmates.
The parental squabble analogy is spot on. If it ends in a permanent separation it's up to the adults to act responsibly and heal any wounds, lest they fester. For the sake of the PF kiddies. Would've been helpful if the passing of Richard had made them realize what was important about what brought them together in the first place to create something so special as their music and the impact it had on the many fans they had...as a group.
@@aldito7586 and others dont like how waters is treated by gilmour, this is why we need to forget, forgive and enjoy. peace to all
@@UserName_no1 nicely said
Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall, their 2 best albums, basically were Roger Water's albums. He WAS Pink Floyd. They WEREN'T Pink Floyd without him.
There's no 'Team Roger" or "Team David". Both are absolutely brilliant, and they were at their best when they worked together. Pink Floyd, from Meddle to The Wall, is untouchable.
Thank you. I have said this for years. Fact is they all, with the exception of Nick, had plenty to be culpable for.
Spot on
A two great strong personalities never will stay together...
I would include Live at Pompeii... such masterpiece.
Not both, only David G is brilliant.Rog is tonedeaf and was always the least talented of the Floyd.
Gilmour said he would only play Echoes with Rick Wright.
In a press release when David Gilmour announced he would be playing at the Pompeii ruins (after 45 years or so since the "Live at Pompeii" film), many fans were asking and begging him to play 'Echoes' there (as they did in 1972).
He declined to. His reasoning was solid. He said that 'Echoes' (musically) was always intended to be a "musical conversation" between himself and Richard Wright. Since Rick had passed from cancer a few years prior, he added "regrettably, that's a conversation that can never happen again."
Anyone who has seen Echoes will understand. It was a dialogue between two leads.
That whole 70s Pompeii recording was a religious experience, and I can say Dave's playing was probably the most soulful I've ever heard, while Harrison's guitar gently wept, Dave's guitar soared into the heavens.
What I loved about Led Zeppelin was that when John Bonham passed, Robert Plant pretty much said, he could never perform with Led Zep without his drummer. Yes they did a one off, with Jason Bonham but he knew, no Bonzo, no Zeppelin
My daughter loves Pink Floyd. She attended a Roger Waters concert years ago. I asked her who'd she rather see, him or David? She replied "Mom, it doesn't matter. Even though they separated, their creativity still flows together. Their own contributions and legacies will always remain together. That's what makes them so unique."❤
That is beautiful! ❤
@@JTCurtisMusic Thank you!
No thats not true a PF sprit and soul came from RW, DG is just a good musician.
@@MamaofaWrestler So cool ❤
I don't care about the rifts between the band members, anything by all the band is music to me, I love all the Pink Floyd albums and all the solo stuff. All the members of the band past and present have their own talents, skills and qualities that made the Pink Floyd brand so successful. And I thank every member of Pink Floyd, for giving me hours upon hours of musical entertainment, with the band and all their solo albums.
The ending was just amazing. Whenever I listen to a Pink Floyd album, I simply focus on the music made by 5 fantastic men. I put all these arguments about who was responsible for the band’s success aside and just listen to some of the best songs and albums I’ve ever heard.
This will not do 😂
@@Sandwich13455 CALL THE SCHOOL MASTAH !
Words of wisdom. I haven't got time for the pain when I can find such joy in listening to the music.
Well said!
The fact their peak success occurred with founding five-members together is telling.
The collective genius was more important than a single member, i.e., they shined brightest collectively.
I WILL agree !~~
There's some great tracks on Radio KAOS. I hated it at first, but after a few listens, it really grew on me. The 80s sound is really classic.
It’ll my favourite RW solo album. And the ‘expert’ that made this RUclips video apparently hasn’t even listened to it all the way through.
I don’t understand why people even make these videos. They should talk about something they know.
I saw the Radio KAOS tour when he was in Toronto, saw Floyd the same summer at the CNE.
This was a great vid! I especially like the message at the end of not letting differences get in the way of enjoying the music. The ongoing Glimour/Waters debacle is truly a sad thing, that’s for sure.
Your conclusion to this segment was beautifully put. It’s sincerely heartbreaking to see fans replicate the schism between the band, when there’s really no need. Roger’s a brilliant lyricist, the other members of Floyd are brilliant musicians. In my opinion, they were best together, but moments of their respective brilliance absolutely shine through in all of their work. You can still like Floyd and Waters: you don’t have to take a side.
Hear hear! Well spoken!
Rog got his lyrics from Syds notebooks.Almost every future lyric he came up with came from Syd.Very few people know this.
@@JimMorrison-ld2zh and what is your source on this information?
@@JTCurtisMusic Sounds like rumors or assumption.
Great video.
Some people just like to rehash rubbish rumours just to be polemic. Syd Barrett would have had to leave an entire encyclopaedia of notebooks to allow Roger to live off copying for decades…
The “very few people know this” part is a typical sentence of conspiracy theorists. I guess know he is going to a Neil DeGrasse Tyson video to sentence about the Earth being flat…
Pink Floyd truly died with Richard. R.I.P.
You always upload right before I have track practice to it is always very fun to anticipate it.
I canNOT, for the LIFE of me, stop reading about Pink Floyd's breakup. I just can't get enough information about it. I am utterly fascinated by it, for some reason. I will always be a die-hard Pink Floyd fan. Thank you for making this.
This is a very hard thing to talk about, it’s such a difficult thing to get right and get the facts right, so good job! Can’t wait for the video on A Momentary Lapse of Reason!
Also please say you’re do a video about Amused To Death, I love that album so much!
The story of Roger leaving Pink Floyd is honestly sad. Seeing him squabble with Dave after the music they made together is heartbreaking. It's sad but unfortunately there's people like that in the world. Not everyone is going to be someone who will address every need they see. There are people who destroy everything just so their egos can be satisfied.
I'm just glad we got this out of the way, and we can re-focus on the music
Most of that was in the eighties though. I've never heard him say anyting about Dave since the nineties.
The killer is that the ego is never satisfied by all the destruction.
Most good bands have their differences, but Waters was the imbecile in all this as documented by himself. Waters for his own good was too philosophical in why he stood on a higher ivory tower than the rest of the band. For all we know, Roger might have encouraged Sid's ongoing drug use to be rid of him so as to pull the power game. Anyway, in my book, Waters can shag himself.
yeah but this time, it's roger just being an asshole with his views on the ukraine and his anti-semetic views. plus, supporting someone like julian assange makes you question your sanity.
There were Arabs with knives at the foot of the bed,right at the foot of the bed 😂.
I feel similar to you about listening to their albums. When I listen to the wall, it reminds me of growing up without my mother and father around, growing up in a school where I was reprimanded for not understanding what was “simple”, the loss of my grandfather, and the loss of my first love. It also helps me cope with drug recovery and it influenced my view of the world in so many ways. I mentioned this on your instagram page but I once again just want to say I’m sorry for your loss and your father seemed like such a genuinely great man, I can only imagine what it’s like to grow up with someone for years and years only to lose them. ❤️
Thank you
@@JTCurtisMusic no thank you, your videos have been getting me through a lot recently and i appreciate the work you do, hoping to come see Pompeii Floyd live soon
I enjoy listening to both Roger and David’s solo albums as well as post Pink Floyd.
Really solid recap. I agree with almost everything you say here. I am more a Roger fan than a Dave fan, but Division Bell is an incredible album. One thing I disagree with is the Pros & Cons album. Its very good, especially all the acoustic parts Clapton plays. Sure would be great if these 2 dudes could reconcile.
I first heard The Powers That Be at the Madison Square Garden show Roger did back in August 2022, and it was an experience nothing short of kickass 🤘
Great content my guy, really lucky your videos are coming up in my algorithm because you do a great job with the editing and narrative. Happy Easter!
Glad I’m coming up on SOMEONE’s algorithm - Happy Easter to you as well.
At 12:14 you are TOTALLY RIGHT! It was 1987/1988 and I had listened to The Final Cut and The Wall for years without ever knowing how Roger Waters or the others looked like! Eventually one of my friends sister traveled to England and brought back a couple of photos of Roger Waters and the other members of the band, only then I got to see who he was! And YES buying photos of bands was something we did back then because there was no Internet and mostly no information available at all!
Love these videos, I was wondering if you had ever thought about doing reviews on individual albums that are considered some of the greatest ever made. It’d be cool to hear your thoughts on albums like Music from Big Pink, Pet Sounds and The Velvet Underground & Nico. Keep up the good work JT.
Glad the Floyd Reviews are back. Your message about the Music is really inspiring.
As a 50+ years Floyd fan in my opinion Waters ideas and lyrics, needed Gilmour, Wright, and Mason to a degree to refine them to produce the final song, Waters needed them just as much as they needed him. For me the Floyd sound comes from the interaction between Gilmour and Wright, the contribution they made to the music was exceptional. I could Listen to Floyd without lyrics anytime it's all about the music for me. Over the years The Final Cut and The Wall albums have tended to be overrated to me and I have not played them for years, in my opinion Wish You Were Here is their best. With or without Waters it is still Floyd to me. In the end I think Gilmour, Wright and Mason done a pretty good job carrying on the Floyd.
I became Floyd fan from day one, 'Arnold Lane' Have all their albums except the 'final cut', I don't rate the Wall and never play it. I agree with your sentiments entirely. I despise Waters for what he did to Pink Floyd, have never heard any of his solo albums and would never buy one or go to any of his concerts.
@@standbytogo123 Agree, the way Waters left Floyd and the lack of respect he showed the other members made me lose respect for him and interest in anything he would do. The Wall and Final Cut became a Waters whinge fest to me, repetitive and boring.
Spot on.
My thoughts exactly!❤
Dude after Rodger left those albums sucked the Final Cut and the wall were genius
I really hope you'll cover their performance at Live8, as well as other times Dave and Roger played together post breakup. The bands rocky past makes the reunions, however big or small, all the more enjoyable.
For those who never heard the interview, at least Rogers telling is that Dave called him up for a show on Palestinian relief, something BOTH guys have in common, its just Dave isn't quite so political about it. There are people who just help the wounded, there are those who try to stop the wounding, the 'problem' is not them, the problem is WE aren't all in there helping.
Anyway, the story is that Dave calls Roger while Roger is on tour, and Dave says "wouldn't it be funny if we did a version of 'to know him is to love him', which I 'assumed' was about Roger, because thats pretty funny, not Syd, where it would be tragic.
Anyway, Roger says that it would take time to learn it, so couldn't they just do an old number. Dave then offers to play on his Wall tour in two gigs in London. Roger doesn't believe him, but thats the deal, and you can watch both online. I like the video where they are ARRIVEING at The Wall concert and Roger is bossing Dave around just like old times and you can kind of tell THIS is why you aren't going to see them touring:)
Roger's albums are on a different vibe and quality, last of the 2 PF albums are pretty good. RW shows today are excellent and PF doesn't exist anymore, amazing records over the years.
Pink Floyd died with Richard Wright. David just couldn't see a future in which he could write Pink Floyd songs without the musical back and forth between himself and Richard that defined their music.
The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking is my favorite record of all time. The lyric “Did you understand the music, Yoko, or was it all in vain?” seems appropriate here, as it appears that you did not. It’s a tragedy to miss the depth of this album.
Yeah idk how people call this album trash
I got to see the show twice as a teenager it was fantastic.
@@TheGravygunit’s a shame he never formally released a live album or concert film of the tour considering how complex it was
very nice documentary with interesting details that for my part have never heard before. thanks!
Nick Mason is the most underrated drummer of all time...also really enjoyed the video
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Rick Wrights two solo albums. Wet Dream in 1978 and Broken China in 1996. Great video and research.
Mentioned Wet Dream in The Wall video, will discuss Broken China later, along with other solo albums.
Glad your back 👍 can’t wait to see your opinions on these next couple albums, I also agree there’s enough drama in the world already, music is so universal and should be used to bring people together not divide us farther apart ❤️
Amazingly produced video. I'm glad you are also a Division Bell gigachad.
Great fair, objective video. Well done.
Most people don't realize that with pop music with record companies back in those times, lyricists got more credit than they often deserved. Song writing is really more about "the music."
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those intricate guitar parts, keyboard parts, and drum parts are pretty distinctive to each member, which gave us The Pink Floyd "Sound."
This why I still enjoy their later albums as well.
thanks for putting this together. I didn't follow the break-up at the time, as it was too painful given they were my childhood heroes. So, it was good to see/hear a condensed version without the vitriol that fed the music press of the day. As for the music it speaks for itself: gifted musicians each making their contribution to a whole that has, for the most part, stood the test of time.
As an aside since Genesis was mentioned, when Peter Gabriel left the group it wasn't as monumental as was thought. The band have said it was the much earlier departure of Anthony Phillips that they found the most difficult. They nearly didn't carry on they thought AP was such an important member.
Fabulous stuff! Thanks so much for the effort. Many of us are as fascinated as you with this legendary band and really appreciate all these fantastic clips and your observations. Looking forward to part two of the Floyd saga!
You do great reviews!👍🏻
I like to say that I really enjoyed this video. So very well-researched. Please please make more. I love Pink Floyd they are my higher power and reason for living! Thank you bro❤
Hah! Music is also my higher power. That's worked for 27 years now, and I have endless gratitude for that.
To me, Gilmore’s playing transcends and extrapolates on the songs to such a degree that they become his. A lot of dreary music came out of Pink Floyd, but he made it so extraordinary with his ability to sonically frame everything he touched. As a musician I’m always aware of how rare that is an only a few guitarist or soloists, are capable of doing that.
But the real Pink Floyd 'sound' came from Rick Wright.
@@TheFrostDawg He wrote "Remember a day"😅🤣😁😂😀😅
Well said.
Plus, Roger is and has continued to be....a colossal D-bag.
Beautifully put! Have often felt that, he made them his as much as Rogers. It's a shame that Roger couldn't listen to and appreciate Pink Floyd's guitar sound the way we all did. If he had, then he would have known...shit, yea, David MAKES some of these songs....
@@JimMorrison-ld2zh who cares what he wrote? I'm talking about the atmosphere of pink floyd's music. That calm, jazzy keyboard, soft beautiful voice. And as for your laughing emoji's, you clearly think Rick done nothing for Pink Floyd. Educate yourself.
I liked the music at the end , shazam'd it and its yours! very nice
Thank you!
Well done vid my man 👍
Pink Floyd transcends good musicianship, excellent songwriting and ethereal music that touches the core of the human condition, thought provoking songs and an indelible mark that will stand the test of time as long as humanity exists. And when Roger, Dave and Nick pass all the more immortal will their work become
For me, there are four different ages to the Pink Floyd music. Fist one with Syd Barrett, second one with all three of the remaining plus David Gilmour, after "The Dark Side of the Moon" you have the Roger Waters era with help from Pink Floyd (mostly David Gilmour) and finally, David Gilmour with help from Pink Floyd (minus Roger Waters).
A good analysis but I would say Rick’s pretty vital on The Division Bell and later The Endless River.
Love your show man. Well done. I always watch
I love your video very unbiased! Thank you for making this video! 👏
Great job on this video man. Really enjoyed it.
Nick Mason's Fictitious Sports is something to be heard. And Zee of course. I love Voices.
Well said young man. You summed up 40 years of feud in under 20 minutes and did not miss a spot. But above all you addressed the feelings we must churn through in the aftermath with great empathy. I for one grieve for "what might have been". Thank you for this production.
That you for the kind words!
@@JTCurtisMusic I have already formed my opinion... and I'm listening to yours now... but I think Roger got a little too much of what fryed Syd🙄
Good video. Much better than others who analyze these things. I saw Waters in 1987 and Pink Floyd on the Lapse tour. I loved both. I like Kaos a lot. Pros and Cons was OK, but never got into it. I still listen to About Face every so often.
Loved the video
You are perfectly right. It hurts. I'm one of those who love both. I have given a spin to Final Cut just yesterday. Southampton docks is a moving song. I have all their albums including the solos. I find that also Identity and Fictitious sports are great albums. Decades ago I played in a cover band, too. Pink Floyd have not just changed my life, they have modeled it.
This is a very good and balanced take on the situation, thanks for putting it out there. I too tend to veer more towards David's side of the argument, because the music in my opinion is what makes Pink Floyd's legacy immortal, but at the same time Roger is the one whose concerts I have been to three times now, and every single time he put on an amazing show.
I just wish Roger was a bit more appreciative of the musical side of things, instead of being so laser-focused on his writing and lyrical efforts. It's the synergy between each band member's musical contributions, together with Roger's themes and lyrics, that made Pink Floyd the juggernaut that it was. Roger's solo work is just... ehhh. I know it's got a lot of depth to it if you really invest in it, but the music simply isn't there to carry the themes and lyrics. His stripped down version of Comfortably Numb that he's touring right now is just dour, with none of the elation that the original song brought. I'm dreading what his re-recorded version of Dark Side of the Moon will sound like, I'm almost certain it will lack everything that made the album special. Yet at the same time whenever Roger performs his Pink Floyd work live, faithful to the albums as perfectionist as he is, it is one of the most transcendental musical experiences you'll ever witness. It's so hard to understand that he willingly threw all of that aside, still belittles Pink Floyd's musical achievements, and still gets into arguments over it to this day.
Good damn job on this brother
Great vid👍🏼
I think Dave was absolutely right about there being different versions of Floyd. And while Pros and Cons does have some wonky lyrics, it remains one of my fav albums to this day.
I full heartily enjoyed the Division Bell and A momentary Lapse of Reason! I absolutely loved On The Turning Away. And I was a big fan of The Final Cut as well
Stay tuned for my Momentary Lapse of Reason review...
I believe you handled this subject matter excellently, and you should be proud of this video! I've been a Roger guy since I was young, but as I've been growing as a musician and engineer, I'm leaning on Dave these days.
Outstanding JT. Outstanding!
Really enjoyed your balanced summary and agree with you. I’ve been a PF fan from the age of 16 long before Dark Side and associate the music strongly with my life, I followed Gilmour and saw the Momentary Lapse tour here in NZ (89) and even Roger when he was here on tour around 2008 and I listened to Dave’s Rattle that Lock every day in my last year of work 43 years after Dark Side !! I was depressed when Freddie passed away, ditto Richard Wright but I’m going to be heart broken when Dave goes. 😀
I laughed so hard when you said "Wait until we get to that!"
You sounded like you had a lump in your throat at the end. I kind of felt a little choked up, too. "More lies than a tissue"- never heard that metaphor but it sure is interesting.
Pardon the digression, but while I'll miss the Who as a unit, I'm happy for them. I wish Jon Anderson could patch things up with Yes but that may never happen either. Ditto Brian Wilson and what's left of the Bench Boys. And the Stones, well if you're a fan, count yourself lucky they're still sound.
Back to what we all should be talking about, I loved the solo albums part. I've been looking forward to this video. And Roger admits guilt and sort of apologizes albeit reluctantly. God bless Pink Floyd, all 5 of them.
Excellent work on your part with this presentation. I have learned and thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank You Pink Floyd = GREAT Music
great video, must have taken a lot of research and editing..................i love every version of Pink Floyd.................the Division Bell is one of my favorite albums
Roger’s latest work is excellent particularly once he teamed up with Nigel Godrich. (Radiohead) and “is this the world we really want” is a wonderful LP.
Rogers entered a golden period and his b&w stuff on RUclips is also very moving.
With luck I’ll see him on this tour but I can’t see him grouting much after this at 78 yrs old plus.
Overall I think together it’s magical - solo they’re just not quite the real deal either of them.
Very well presented video, and thank you for being as objective as you could.
Great review.
When I was 13 years old, I found about an album Wish you were here. I was listening that album in my basement on old turntable. It wasn't in good shape but I fell in love with Shine on You Crazy Diamond immediately. Since than, Pink Floyd is my all time favorite band. Back then I didn't know about the argument between Dave and Roger. Now, after three years I am sure that Roger couldn't do all the songs alone (solos, drum fills, amazing jazz chords from Rick ...). He came up with the lyrics, but he didn't do everything himself. His ego spoiled the band that had a great influence on other musicians.
Great summation of the PF history.👍 For me as a Floyd fan from the early 70's, neither 'A Momentary Laps' nor 'Pros & Cons were typical 'Floyd' albums. It was clear that Pink Floyd was a creative collaboration from all four former members. Whilst I've enjoyed their subsequent work, I think it's a sad loss that their creative collaboration ran out of steam.
It was always a collaboration even back in the Early Years. The thing that changed by Animals or so, even possibly bits of Wish You Were Here, was that Waters'
ego went Supernova and he slowly erased all that collaboration and he decided that he was writing everything so he was Pink Floyd and everything was by him,
and he was the be all and end all of the band. I think what happened in fact is that Waters did such a great job coming up with huge selling albums like
Dark Side and WYWH, (but not Animals, it must be recalled---didn't do very well) and later, The Wall, the other guys let him get on with it and by the time
they realized what was going on, the man had just installed himself as the Genius in Pink Floyd and nobody else was going to counter his creative decisions
or input any longer. The fact he just took it upon himself to fire Richard Wright was a prime example of this. Firing David Gilmour would have been even more
foolhardy. Waters claimed Wright was coked out and not pulling his weight in the band by then, and there may be some truth to this, but then, he could have
claimed that about any of them since he was being allowed to write most of the material by then. Nobody had a heart attack when Peter Gabriel left
Genesis! And in this case, Waters himself left the band only to legally claim that he WAS the band!! From the early days this was never the case. Waters
only WROTE the lion's share of the later material, unfortunately for the other guys, who essentially let him get on with it since he was good at it, etc. This
came back to haunt them. I maintain the success of Dark Side came back eight years later to haunt them like a fucking poltergeist!
Thanks for a thoughtful video.
BTW I love Dave and Roger, and Nick and Rick equally.
💓
What a beautiful work! Bravo! Bravo!
I loved the Pros and Cons Of Hitchhiking.
Go Fishing, Sexual Revolution (which was meant to be on The Wall) and Every Stranger's Eyes are really good songs from Pros and Cons
17:35 I never accepted the "Momentary Lapse of Reason" album and was rooting against anything without Waters. Yet working at a record store in 1994, "The Division Bell" was regularly in the 5-disc carousel and it one me over.
I totally agree with your comment about the sentimental value of some of these post Floyd W/ Waters albums. I was 20-yrs old and it brought back good memories of a boarding school where me and fellow students listened to lots of Floyd ranging from Syd to beyond
I remember my father being shocked to see them play again at Live8. He let out a "Holy Shit!" and it was rare he swore around me when I was in my teens.
All four guys (David, Roger, Rick and Nick) did get together to play at Live 8 in 2005. They all seemed to really enjoy the experience and enjoyed playing together again. I really wished they could’ve continued on from that, but it was not to be.
Agree. Let's just appreciate it for what it was and be thankful that we got to live in a time where such greatness existed.
Very well presented and balanced. In the end just about everyone seems to agree, myself included, that they made their best music together. That's what's most important, which can never be denied and will forever live on.
Terrific video and kudos to your ability to be honest AND fair about the contributions put forth by ALL 4 members of the band. IMO, you don't need to be an expert in band politics or music theory to figure out the strengths of this iconic band. Waters was the main lyricist and conceptual artist, Gilmour and Wright the musical heart and soul, and Mason the glue that kept the band from going off the rails after the Animals tour. I hope that your review of A Momentary Lapse Of Reason focuses on the 2019 remix rather than the 80's drenched 1987 version.
anyone else here in love with The Final Cut? UNDERRATED.
Yes
I don't hate it, but it's not a record I put on very often.
@@DJSockmonkeyMusic Fuck all that we’ve gotta get on with these.
Final Cut is Waters first solo album.
The simplicity of Waters' bass playing and the raspiness of his voice masks the fact that he is a creative genius and the architect of the Pink Floyd sound. And it
Pink Floyd concept albums above all. Long live Roger!
I liked your ☯️ approach. Your analogy is spot on!
I enjoy the immensely creative period of 1972-1973 and I have lots of live recordings from the era which are great. You hear DSOTM developed during this period. These recordings are magnificent enjoyable experiences under headphones.
I agree
I don't really know what makes you dislike The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking, but for me that's a great album. The concept is something so different and it transmits the message well. Also the songs are good and so are the solos.
Eric Clapton's solos are great, no question about that. I don't dislike the album, but everytime I've listened to it, I struggle to remember any hooks or even lyrics. For me its just not memorable, but as I always say that's one man's opinion.
Worst album I ever heard.
@@deanladue5367 About Face is not my favorite album either, but there were some songs that stood out to me like "Murder." Even "Blue Light" as cheesy at it is, kind of became a guilty pleasure for me.
@@JimMorrison-ld2zh If Pros and Cons of Hithchhiking is the worst album you've ever heard, consider yourself lucky. I've heard FAR... FAR worse! Eric Clapton's guitar work alone keeps it from being anywhere near worst album I've ever heard. I don't even consider it bad, just not that memorable. More disappointing since it's coming from the same guy who conceived The Wall.
I really loved Radio Kaos - it was a concept album and a little crazy but it was the Reagan Era and I felt he was making a statement about that - anyway I thought it was great - a lot of cool songs - who needs information - radio waves , the powers that be , 4 minutes like you said -. there were a lot of pink floydish songs on that album .
Amazing video thank you
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." -Star Trek, The Wrath Of Khan
I am reminded of this quote when you said that most fans (incuding myself) recognises Pink Floyd as a whole even if members leave, for one reason or another. Even though Syd and Roger left, I am forever a Pink Floyd fan 🤘
wooo. amused to death and the division bell next!!! cant wait
The primary creative force of a band often gets arrogant and thinks they don't need the others, but rarely do they succeed as well on their own, after the breakup. The moral is; maybe your band mates are more valuable than you thought
Hi! While I fall pretty solidly on the DG side, I have had so many hours of enjoyment listening to Pink Floyd, I am so grateful to all members of the band. I did think that without RW, the quality of the material would plummet, but I reckon there are some great songs ...Learning To Fly for example and thus I have more material from PF to listen to and to be honest that is what counts for me!
"Dogs of War" best song of 1987 imo... thanks for the content! I enjoyed this upload.✌️
During this time I saw David Gilmour About Face Tour 1984 Boston Orpheum. Also saw Roger Waters Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking Tour 1984 Hartford Civic Center w/Eric Clapton. Gilmour didn't play much from Pink Floyd. Only Money, Run Like Hell and Comfortably Numb. That's it. Waters played 13 Pink Floyd songs and then the whole Pros and Cons LP. Waters Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking Tour was the better concert show at that time.
All I could think about was how John Densmore was able to block his band (the Doors) from reforming without him with a lawsuit and Roger Waters was not. I've read Densmore's book so I understand the reasons there, but I still wonder what the key differences were. Perhaps it was just the time and the place. Another fantastic video here! I can't wait for the next one.
It will always depend on the contract. Its been awhile that I've read, but I seem to recall that Floyd settled out of court before an actual verdict. In The Doors I'm pretty sure the contract said ALL the members, but thanks to what happened with Syd (technically he WAS still alive,so would be a voting member), they had various ways of kicking people out, as they did with Rick, and there was some talk that it could even include Nick. As long as its a 'majority'. Apparantly I've read Rick had to sign a contract saying he was NEVER rejoin Pink Floyd, so there were legal technicalities in how he would play at concerts.
Which goes to prove what Roger says, the band MEMBERS are not the entity. You could argue EMI 'owned' Pink Floyd, as they bankrolled them for many years before they made it big. Roger thought HE was the band, forgetting that 'in the machine' no matter how much you do, your still part of the machine.
So he did get his contractual way in not allowing Rick to become a full blown member again until later. I'm not positive, but pretty sure the guys in The Doors agreed everything needs to be unanimous, which many bands like Rush do, or did.
Again I think because of Syd’s departure so early, they never made a formal contract of who the band must consist of, and in that case Roger wouldn’t have been able to force Rick out. The Doors were a set unit up until Jim Morrison’s death, so it’s possible that they had a contract, but then they did the “Other Voices” album without Jim so… 🤷🏼♂️
@@JTCurtisMusic That was when Jim sued, they basically just did a common corporate decision which is "its easier to pay a lawsuit than formalize a contract". Thats a variation of "its easier to apologize later than ask permission first".
You may have covered this, sorry, I didn't get all the way through, I'm a reader, I don't concentrate well on audio, but I'll get to it, but Nick says it had to be unanimous. Again, maybe you mentioned it, but Roger lost it when Rick was supposed to have a part by summer and he just fucked off to his boat when they had a deadline. Roger lost it and told the other guys he was going to do it as a solo album if they didn't turf Rick. Once Rick was gone I'd 'heard' somewhere that Roger and Dave sorted of wanted to turf Nick-thats obviously not in Nicks book and since the band would be three guys, that would be two to one, so they COULD have done it, so maybe thats not even true.
But yeah, sorry, I like talking floyd and was listening to something else already but I'll get through the thing I promise. I've only actually seen ONE article where Roger goes through it, and it was a long time and pretty byzantine so I'll get through the video....even if you did pick sides:)
But yeah, you probably read Ricks book but if its not mentioned, its a pretty good story that gives Roger some credit that Rick just basically sat around and did nothing. Then asked for producer credit, and Roger said, 'fine, as long as you produce', which is a pretty fair thing to say, much like both Roger and Rick claim they gave Nick songwriting credit to give him some publishing royalties, I forget the track.
But apparantly Rick just sat around and thought a producers jobe was doign nothing, so when he pissed off Roger really lost it. And I can understand that, he's very much like Phil Collins, partly probably why he hates him, but both are hard workers and expect others to be hard workers. OK, I'll stop commenting til I listen to the whole thing:)
@@mikearchibald744 From the research I've done, Rick did not "sit around doing nothing." You know those keyboard chords at the end of "Another Brick in the Wall"? Bob Ezrin confirmed they were his composition. That's a pretty huge contribution. James Guthrie also said he made significant contributions in the evening when the rest of the band wasn't there - I explain this all in my Wall review.
Again if you take this long-standing claim on the internet without verifying the sources, this same tired story is just going to continue to go around and become accepted fact.
@@JTCurtisMusic Well you didn't say where your research comes from. The story I wrote is almost word for word in Nick Masons book. Frankly Rick is dead and the other guys are millionaires and there are ALL kinds of stories that go around the internet, hell there were stories going around LONG before the internet. Its called the world.
I didn't make ANY claim that Rick never contributed to The Wall, I would certainly never say that even if he DID literally not contribute anyting, I just reiterated what the drummer of Pink Floyd said in his book.
And the reality is that likely NOBODY even remembers back then very well, I've heard Roger tell the same story three different ways in three different interviews in three different decades, I've also heard him admit to not remembering any of it, and also claiming he remembered parts of it like yesterday.
Thats why I wrote that Pink Floyd is like literature, even those INVOLVED don't know what happened. I've heard the story about Syd coming into the booth during Wish you Were Here at least three different ways. One they noticed him right away, one where none of them recognized him, one where Roger tells Rick who it was, one where a producer tells them. And on and on.
THose stories are most definitely going to continue and proliferate, so any clams of 'this is what happened' is going to at most be an approximation, so relax. I didnt accuse anybody of a crime or anything like that, I just stated whats in Nicks book. Frankly its about the ONLY interesting part of the book.
Roger Waters concert in Frankfurt Germany, in May 2023 included a lengthy remembrance of Syd Barret that left Waters in tears. The concert is on RUclips. .
That ending was great! As someone from Gen Z I couldn’t agree more. The music is what brings all of us so much joy and ofc we can all like what we wanna like👍🏼
This was an awesome vid and and answered some questions I had about Roger's departure. The only thing I have to say is that I found Pros & Cons to be a total masterpiece, one I'd stack up next to Dark Side, Animals, and The Wall. Cheers!
Amused To Death is miles away the best solo album any of them released. It's as good as their 70s work. I actually really like Radio Waves. And Is This The Life We Really Want?
I think the problem is; Roger's first solo album is junk. Actually weird and unlistenable compared to the other guys' solo work which is merely forgettable.
So folks view his later albums through that lens, but Radio Kaos is like a real album. :D It doesn't sound very like Floyd, or indeed anything Roger would do after, but it sounds a LOT like what 'everyone' was doing in the early 80s.
It's not great, but I don't think it's junk or forgettable. Some really good songs on there.
@@mcolville I continue to be the one weirdo who like Pros And Cons it seems.
@@mcolville also, I agree that Amused to Death is the best of the Floyd solo albums. It actually manages to be more Floydian than AMLOR ever was (admittedly, that is not hard, but still) and Jeff Beck was the perfect choice for guitar.
It also manages to be surprisingly consistent sound wise despite the lineup of musicians being so different from track to track.
Man do I absolutely love your content so far. I found your channel from catching your review of Disney's streaming of Let It Be.
I am sure you might mention it but I found The Final Cut album at a special hurting time in my life. I mean a deep hurt and I listened to that like no one listens to albums. Thousands of times and till this day I think it's just huge. Musically I get why people might bash it. I'm also a huge World War 2 fan and I automatically got the references. Back then there was no internet to fact check things so I had no clue Roger Waters had a father who died in Anzio Italy. It came out in Tigers Broke Free. Just good guitar on that album. Just love your insight. Great stuff.
Waters wrote the music as well, he was the catalyst. It’s what he brought to the party and the others collaborated with. In truth they all needed each other.
I really love The Final Cut and The Division Bell. Both are really expressive Pink Floyd albums but in different ways. They were an album apart from each other and yet tonally completely different.
Divisional Bell is Great classic album.
Final cut i didn't listen because of setback for me then.
I have to agree. The Final Cut sounds like an album that was painful to make, but that tension and turmoil in the studio really adds impact to the finished work, and I still love it to this day. The Division Bell is also one of my all-time favourite albums, but with a completely different tone and mood. Ultimately, no two Floyd albums sound alike, and that's part of what makes them such a great band. Perhaps TFC would have benefited from more of David's musical nuance, and maybe TDB would have been enhanced by some of Roger's lyrical insight, but there's no sense dwelling on these things since they both stand as phenomenal albums just the way they are.
which album after Roger left sounds inspired? I don‘t know one
Very well done.
Love the final cut, Love radio kaos, Love The division Bell and until I listen to your video I had no idea they were fighting this much and I don't care it's about the music🤔✌️
I am not in one camp or the other, I have a lot of respect for Roger and David. They both have put on absolutely stunning concerts of Pink Floyd music.
I find 'The Pros and Cons of Hitchiking' to be very memorable however I do agree with it's lyrical impact not being as strong as other Roger Waters albums or Pink floyd's but yet the title track is always stuck in my head. Dave, Roger, Richard and even Nick are amazing talented artists that defined rock music and music in general, They're work to this day still inspires millions, while they may be separate from each other, their music still continues to inspire.
Even several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict.