Reply to this comment with your nomination for which character we should do next. As always, the single comment with the most votes (thumbs up) is the winner.
I've always liked the representations that Lucas gave his villains throughout the prequel trilogy. You have Maul who is a dark side user, Dooku who is a fallen Jedi, and finally you have Grievous who is a cyborg. these are all things that Anakin became in his pursuit to save padme and gain more power. The prequels get a lot of flack but at the same time Lucas did put a lot of thought into these. So while grievous character may have been diluted because of the clone wars series I feel it doesn't take away from what he is supposed to be and that is a monstrous Jedi killing machine.
In my opinion i think the problem with the three villains serving Palpatine throughout the clone wars was that they had little to no connection to each other, and so the symbolism that you pointed out there wasn't prominent enough to work as actual foreshadowing. In hindsight i would have wanted Maul, Tyranus (i refuse to call him dOOKu) and Grievous to have been there since Episode 1 (somehow as silhouettes behind the same allegiance) , so that we would have enjoyed seeing each one revealed and explored (and, unfortunately, defeated) over the course of the trilogy. So what folks are saying about GG in Attack of the Clones is something i tangentially agree with.
I feel Grievous sparing Shaak-Ti in the 2003 version was a sort of "Warrior's Respect" kind of thing. She managed to fend off so many Magna-Guards and even when she was weakened, she took up her saber to fight him to save Palpatine.
I don't think so. I think he just wanted to humiliate her and force her to live with her failure for the time being. Plus, Grievous knew about Order 66, so he expected her to die soon anyway.
I think leaving her alive was more to mark her with shame. When he had Ki-Adi and the other Jedi surrounded, he promised to give each of them a warrior's death.
I think Grievous left her alive so she could tell the Republic that the Chancellor's been captured alive. After all, if Mace Windu hadn't shown up when he did, Grievous would've just flown back up to his ship, and Shaak-Ti would be the only person who knew he got away with the Chancellor. That way, if he made a, "We have your precious Chancellor, now give in to the Separatists' demands!" speech, the Republic would believe him.
@@matthewmuir8884 That is another possibility. After all, Grievous said in the movie that he expected Anakin and Obi-Wan to come for Palpatine just as Dooku predicted and even Obi-Wan sensed that the whole thing was a trap. And the droid infantry made sure none of the Jedi on Coruscant could reach Grievous' ship, leaving Anakin and Obi-Wan the only available Jedi to handle the rescue mission (since Ki-Adi-Mundi was on Mygeeto, Aayla Secura on Felucia, Plo Koon on Cato Neimoidia and Quinlan Vos on Boz Pity). But it also wouldn't be out of character for Grievous to simply shatter Shaak Ti's pride instead of killing her right away, especially since they had a rivalry throughout the series and Shaak Ti already put him in an embarrassing position in the train station scene.
@@emberfist8347 Disney did chewie dirty with their humanocentric ways..... something they have in common with the empire, which discriminated against non-humans
Legends Grievous, Dooku, and Jango were all great villains because they show the failings of the Republic (and in extension the Jedi) in many different ways. They are in my opinion the best poster boys of the Separatist movement and the best way to illustrate why the CIS did what they did and hate the Republic and Jedi as much as they did alien businessmen aside
Yup would have been cool if the Cis could get a micro series about them. I know depending on the cannon you go by everyone is pretty much different. But an on screen mini series about this short lived faction and their struggles only to ultimately become a sacrifice upon Palpatine's alter would be a nice and tragic story.
Every Star Wars trilogy has their “badass looking but wasted character”. Prequels: General Grievous Originals: Boba Fett Sequels: Captain Phasma Just waiting for the Mandalorian to have there’s lol.
Captain Phasma was no Boba Fett. She was completely irrelevant to the story. Boba Fett may not have had a personality, but at least he moved the plot forward by tracking down Han Solo and bringing him to Jabba the Hutt. And Grievous was also important, unlike Phasma. Grievous was the reason Obi-Wan and Anakin separated and his death marked the final defeat of the CIS.
Pharma wasn't very bad ass imo. I won't hate on her too much bc the entire thing was mishandled. I just don't that she should be in company with Boba Fett and GG
TCW Grievous works best when he's in episodes where he doesn't have to be defeated. I specifically cite a few episodes in Seasons 4 and 5 where Grievous would basically just have "background" fights in one of which he full on sparta kicks Adi Gallia down a hallway. If only all his appearances were like that and he wasn't relegated to the formulaic villain we saw mostly in Season 1
@@emberfist8347 beaten by kit fisto and nahdar, beaten later on by fisto, has to be saved from eeth koth, beaten by obi wan numerous times, beaten by fucking gungans, beaten by ventress. he beats and kills nahdar, "defeats" ashoka twice, beats adi galia in an easily missable 4 second clip, beats kenobi once in an unfinished episode. the feared jedi hunter, the knight slayer kills ONE jedi in the shows entire run...that is honestly pathetic, savage oppress kills more jedi onscreen than grievous does for god sake.
@@James-pt2vk Okay, to be fair he did beat and capture Koth, so I still count that as a win. And in the defense of the Gungans beating him, he was outnumbered by like 100 to 1. Just like with the Jedi at the first battle of Geonosis and during Order 66, it doesn't matter how powerful you are if your fighting hundreds of opponents all attacking you at once you will be defeated, they may take several troops down first before that, but they are not going to win with these odds. Granted I feel Grievous should have killed more than 5 Gungans before he was beaten, like maybe 50 or so, so that pisses me off, but it's not unbelievable he could lose that fight when he was that outnumbered.
@@zexalbrony4799 he didnt beat eeth koth his guards shocked him into submission. As for the gungans legends grievous would of ripped through them...you cant expect me to believe a cyborg that speed blitzez and slaughters beings with precognition to lose to gungans that have only ever been displayed as stupid and incompotent. I could rsnt for hours about tcw grievous and dave fillonis clear hatred for the character
@@zexalbrony4799 battle droids were never displayed as incompotent though, they were always portrayed as a silent swarm kind of army with only the commanders speaking, it was tcw that made the battle droids comic relief to the calibre they are known as now and insanely incompotent
in this one battle where grievous takes obi wans ship, he kills several clones and grabs ones head with his foot and crushes him in front of obi wan, causing obi wan to get angry.
Grievous, design wise, is one of my absolute favorite star wars chracters, it doesnt get much cooler than a robot skull faced 4 armed light saber wielding spider cyborg. Plus he's got a really cool voice. Character wise though, he's never had much going on. He was at least really intimidating and badass in the tartakovsky clone wars series. He was pretty good in revenge of the sith too. Filoni's clone wars, as much as I love it, does grievous a major disservice and more or less turns him into a walking joke. Overall I like Grievous a lot, but he's always needed a lot more to flesh out his character.
@@emberfist8347 anyone know why he has the exact same hilt as Anakin just w/ a green blade instead && why he straight up has the same lightsaber as Obi-Wan..?? I know Grevious 'collects' Jedi sabers & everything but aren't they all unique to the person who crafted the saber themselves? I'm super confused
I wish Filoni hadn't turned Grievous into a bad joke that never gives the viewer any reason to take him seriously. Even though he wasn't as intimidating in Episode III as he was in Tartakovsky's Clone Wars, at least Lucas depicted him as a cunning and resourceful warrior and tactician.
I feel he’s similar to hux. Had lots of potential but a over comedic take on them in a movie(lucas and Johnson) . Led to someone else kinda throwing them away(JJ and Dave )
@@emberfist8347 No he wasn't. Even when he came up with a good plan or was seemingly victorious, he was always outsmarted. And no. He only won a handful of duels, and always by using dirty tricks instead of something really clever. This is why the writers should have avoided making him fight characters with plot armor and this also why it was a stupid decision to create a rivalry between him and Obi-Wan, especially since Episode III implied that they had never fought before and that Obi-Wan was unaware that Grievous was skilled with lightsabers.
@@dannyhuskerjay Lucas didn't depict Grievous comically. Filoni did that. Lucas' Grievous was resourceful, was quick to think of a back-up plan if things went wrong and felt like an actual threat.
As seen in the special features of the collectors edition, it was George NOT Dave that did the characterization for Grevious, he specifically wanted Grievious to be the classic I'll get you next time archetype of villain. Which does match up with RotS.
@@emberfist8347 No. He lost all the time. He always lost to Obi-Wan, he lost to Kit Fisto, he lost to Asajj Ventress, he lost to the Gungans and he threw himself on the ground whimpering when Hondo shot him. Even the writers admitted that he barely won any fight in the series. And that's why they made him massacre the Nightsisters in attempt to make him feel like a threat. And no, fighting dirty was never a part of his character. What was a part of his character was use cunning and psychological warfare to break the Jedi to make sure he'd win.
Definitely wish we got more screen time with him, could have put him in the end of Attack of the Clones when he was hiding in the arena an killed those Jedi.
I agree; though perhaps it would be even better if him and Dooku (as silhouettes) were already there since Episode 1 and Palpatine was just letting each take the lead as he saw fit. That way they could have been more appreciated by the time of thier respective debut.
Matthew Wilson I agree with the Dooku part in 1 because it would have let us see the bigger picture. Grievous would have been appropriate to bing into 2 because the events of TFM happened before his injuries did.
”Canon” is often mentioned. ”Sadly its not Canon this, sadly its not Canon that”. I dont care if Disney calls it Canon or not. If I like it, then it counts to me. The word ”Canon” I dont even recognise. I like the novel Darth Plagueis and the Bane trilogy. So that’s what happend. The Star Wars film saga is 6 chapters. It ends perfectly with Return of the Jedi. So that’s what happend. If you like the sequel trilogy, then that’s what happend. Very simple.
@@drybitter2650 Oof, Filoni may have done grievous dirty but also made anakin, obiw-wan, dooku, sidious, and others even more fleshed out and likable (maybe not sidious lol)
@@Killerbee4712 Dooku was also ruined by Filoni. Not only did he become a silly edgelord, but he also became pathetic. Dumbass got captured by pirates.
@@jamiebraswell5520 They had to take the chancellor in a safe location, also Grievous wasn't alone, the jedis were outnumbered in both encounters and knew they couldn't win.
As a fanfiction writer of some Clone Wars era events, I can understand the difficulties with writing Grevious, so I can understand the challenge Dave and his team faced. The 2003 Mirco Series made him seem completely OP, but in contrast Revenge of the Sith showed him beaten rather easily by Obi-Wan, especially since George Lucas said he would be more of mustache-twirling villain who flees when his plans fall. Thus, we have two different extremes for a character, thus making it hard to find what is the definitive version of Grevious. Personally, I feel a balance is needed, where he's a decent enough fighter but doesn't just rely on his own power and skill, and instead uses clever if not dirty tactics to win battles, thus showing him as a smart fighter. For example, having his MagnaGaurds back him up and soften the Jedi up, or using his enhancements, such as his extra arms in more clever ways, like how he pulled out a blaster with one of them to shoot Nadar while he had him in a saber lock, or when he used one to grab Obi-Wan by the face during a lock during the Battle of Kamino.
when grevious fought mace in some sort of legends material he started to mimic his fighting style even without a force connection (maces fighting style is very force dependent), this terrified mace and he immediately retreated from the battle. my dream for grevious (in the canon clone wars anyway) has always been for him to fight mace and mimic his fighting style and become an absolute monster for a 3-4 episode arc which ends with palpy and dooku wiping his memory because theyre terrified he could actually stand up against them.
@Lionard Kirsch I would have loved to see that Duel in Episode 3. I already love Episode 3 but that would make me like it more. Also, your right sometimes people should have said no to George, but they didn't so this is the Grievous we got in Episode 3, and now we have to deal with that as part of his character, even if we don't like it.
He isn't particularly a strongly-written character, but he does have the most impressive lightsaber collection in the franchise, so I can give him that.
I get wanting villains to be relatable and complex, but I think there’s also place for villains who just are designed well and just there to move the plot or cause destruction (ie Ledgers Joker). It doesn’t matter where he comes from he just needs to challenge the heros on their journey
If we're counting his Legends backstory (which I personally do), then I think he's a fantastic character. The "modern" Grievous is incredibly disappointing though.
@@emberfist8347 He didn't kill the younglings. Trust me, wanting to kill kids and actually killing them are very different, otherwise every Parent ever would be in jail.
@@emberfist8347 *Insert Kylo "MORE" meme here* I wanted to see him do a 980 screaming tornado attack with all 4 arms slicing and dicing Jedi. Or him crushing Sha'gi under his talloned feet.
@@Armoless but seriously he also did prove to have the potential to be a good horror like villian in the episdoe where he killed Kit fisto's apprentice
Star Wars Clone Wars 2003 General Grievous is an A for me. The 2003 version of Grievous is canon to me and not the Grievous from the 2008 Dave Filoni did him wrong Grievous deserves better than that.
@Lionard Kirsch You can prefer the Legends version but it is wrong to say that the canon version butchered the character as that is how he was always meant to be in George's mind.
@Lionard Kirsch Truth be told he isn't actually a weakling. Grevious was responsible for the genocide of the Night Sisters (including Mother Tazlin later) after all, he even kills a Jedi Knight onscreen unlike in RotS. The only real time he has any trouble is up against a Jedi Master or up against weaponry created spefically to damage droids and even then it took a sacrfice to make it actually do anything.
General grievous is quite the foe. He's got 4 light sabers that he uses to overwhelm his opponents and despite having nope force abilities he can still high jump and do all sorts of acrobatics. He is not one who should be taken lightly at all and is a major threat to anyone who dares to oppose this cybernetic sith.
Jango Fett and General Grievous in the Expanded Universe (EU) were such great characters compared to them on the big screen the former was a young child who saw his family murdered by Death Watch and rescued/adopted by Jaster Mereel who would raise him to become a true Mandalorian and the latter was simply a chieftain warrior who had a wife and lost everything in an accident which transformed him into a cyborg monstrosity.
I really like the extended lore of Dooku and Grievous. They were both created by the corruption in the Republic and the harm the Jedi caused in their ignorance serving the Republic before the Force. I also find their relationship interesting. I love the Separatists as a whole because of this as they are the forgotten elements, people who are rising up at injustice and being forced to lean on corrupt and evil people to get their victory but are really just tools for a true villain to take control. The prequels are an extended tragedy that is a delicious stage for the empire to take control.
In The Clone Wars, they should’ve kept General Loathsome around in the role of Grievous and had Grievous be more like in the original Clone Wars. Instead, they turned him into Skeletor, like in Revenge of the Sith.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Qymaen Jai Sheelal the Kaleesh Jedi Killer? I thought not, it’s not a story The Clone Wars 2008 would tell you. As someone who is a massive Grievous fan and grew up with both versions of the character, I remember being so confused when I was older and heard that not only people hated 2008’s Grievous, but that his awesome backstory was also changed. As a kid growing up watching/reading Star Wars, I obviously didn’t grasp concepts such as “canon”. So despite me not watching CW 2003 until I got older, I was in touch with its version of the character thanks to the awesome Clone Wars Adventures comics I read before and in conjunction with Filoni’s series. As well as the Labyrinth of Evil book I read pretty much because it was recommended to me and because it had Grievous on its cover. Even to this day I look back fondly on the Grievous’s from TCW 2008, yeah I agree with some of the issues people point out, but I look at that version as one watered down to fit better with the target the series had in its first two seasons, which were kids. I feel this iteration of the character started to fail when they kept watering him down while the rest of the series was starting to become more and more mature, just like the audience that started watching it as kids, resulting in having Grievous completely contrasting with “new” villains such as Maul who from the get-go started out having excellent development due to them being introduced during the shows’s change of philosophy. Fortunately, they started to tune Grievous to the new direction in his last episodes, but it was already too late and the series got cancelled. And now, we are having a limited season in which the arc that made the most justice to him was cut, and Maul became the Villain that Grievous was originally in CW 2003 and as I see it, should have been here as well. Now with the Disney continuity, new material such as “SW: Myths and Fables” started to deepen in the new backstory that Filoni tried to keep vague enough so if you didn’t like it, you could just fill it with the original one. So Grievous went from having arguably the most tragic backstory in the saga, to have a very lame one in which he basically hated the Jedi because they didn’t accept him into the Order due to him lacking force sensitivity. Thankfully, due to its nature, this version is not 100% confirmed to be a reality and comics out there such as Son of Dathomir or even Age of Republic, showed me there are authors out there willing to restore him to his previous glory. So hopefully, it’s just a matter of LucasFilm giving the right people the right space to do so in the future, through a show, comic, videogame or even a movie. This canon is just starting so I’m optimistic that characters such as Grievous will get justice eventually. For the time being, I will remain visiting Legends as my main continuity, where he and other characters have been treated better. Sorry for the long comment, I just think Grievous is one of the most mistreated and unappreciated characters in the new continuity and by fans who aren’t acquainted to his story. Hope that with my fangirl rant, some people who can’t understand why some folks would rate him higher than a C (as I’ve read in some of the comments in the poll), gained a new insight into Grievous. Or at the very least, understood how some people can love a character that was originally not only an A+++++, but also probably the ultimate villain of the Prequel Trilogy at one point, just like Vader is the ultimate villain of the OT.
Blake Tyson yes it changed, people say it changed in the lair of Grievous episode, although as I’ve mentioned, Filoni despite bringing new elements of his past, he kept it vague enough so you could still fit the EU material if you wanted, and I respect him for that despite not doing that well with the rest of the character. It was with the new Disney continuity that LucasFilm grabbed Filoni’s approach and started to add a new backstory, which is the one you can find in the “Myths and Fables” book I mentioned. Granted, due to it being a “myth”, it’s not confirmed whether or not that is canon or not, but there’s no other version to question it, there isn’t even other material outside that book that tries to add to the subject or give a hint to the backstory from the EU. In fact, I’m not even sure if his real name is still “canon” in Disney’s eyes.
I recently found this channel and binged it. I must say i subbed cuz u tend to go more in-depth analysis on the star wars universe. I don't agree with all your opinions (agree with most) but I respect them. Tbh I haven't seen another star wars channel like yours. The fact that you don't have more subs is crazy.👏👏
Thanks, and happy to have you here. And just because fans don't always agree (and let's be real there's nothing all fans agree on) doesn't mean we can't have respectful discussions with one another.
Anakin Skywalker is and always will be my favourite Star Wars character. I absolutely love everything about him! From his charismatic banter, bravery, quick thinking, heroic yet conflicted attitude, to his intense desire to protect everyone he loves- he is a badass with the heart of an angel. (Not to mention his outstanding lightsaber and ace piloting skills!)
It would’ve been cool if he was introduced as collateral damage from the Battle of Geonosis. Not many people know how terrible the Jedi and Republic performed in that battle as they were both unprepared and very reckless. The battle was a crucial factor as to why some clones despised the Jedi. It could’ve been cool to see Grievous be created because of the amateurish ignorant ways of the Jedi. It would’ve given more weight to Anakin’s growing distrust of the Order and would’ve supplied us another look at Palpatine’s beliefs through Grievous. It would also give him a reason to hate the Jedi. As for Grievous being on Geonosis during the battle, the reason could be that he might’ve been a Separatist leader before becoming the Droid General.
@@emberfist8347 yeah, the best rendition of his backstory would obviously be his legends origins. This was just an idea as to how they could've handled him better in the films and how he could've been used if he were in AOTC.
I like to consider grievous’s legends backstory as canon since it doesn’t contradict with anything that’s actually canon (as of now) and we even see a statue of himself/a member of his species from the original legends backstory when kit fisto infiltrates his base.
Grievous is my favourite character, I especially wish Disney never made the 2003-2005 Clone Wars legends, it would have been awesome if it were still cannon. Apparently it’s on Disney+ now. But they did this too as well to Assaj Ventress + Windu who were way more powerful in that than in TCW.
For me, the Tartakovsky version of Grievous will always be my favorite version of the character. During his abduction of Chancellor Palpatine, he was running on walls, leaping across rooftops, and when master Roron Corobb tried blasting him with a Force amplified scream, Grievous literally compacts his arms into his body and keeps walking forward. As much as I loved Filoni's Clone Wars, I never got the sense that he could do any of that. If they used him more sparingly, took away his cough, and even gave the role of comic relief villain to a new character, then it would've been about as perfect as you could get.
Well maybe a recurring tactical droid character could have that role, and due to his failures, he gets demoted to a super tactical droids second in command.
To those who like Grevious' legends depiction, I can very much recommend his Age of Republic comic. He's kinda a mix of the 2008 TCW and legends, with the former's backstory but skills and tactics more akin to the latter
But seriously though if Dave filoni and John can do maul justice I don’t see why they couldn’t do grievous any. Even bosk was cooler then him in the clone wars lol.
George (not Dave) wanted Grevious to be the classic I'll get you next time villain archetype. Remember Clone Wars was George's pet project, he was heavily involved.
@Lionard Kirsch I doubt Dave could say no to Geroge. Even if that was implemented Grevious still had some cool fights already implemented where he got to shine. People tend to overlook his successes even though they aren't as rare as some people think.
@Lionard Kirsch Not as rare as people think though. The real problem IMO is that Legends made him a bit overpowered considering the rank in the villain tier list he was supposed to have, to the point of being more impressive than Dooku, which set up expectations, not helped by also having a awesome and more threatening design than Dooku. Even back before Clone Wars I remember people saying the same thing with just RotS. Grevious as he is, fits the story and role he was supposed to have better and I honestly doubt that if there was just this version he would be as hated. While it did help the OT and heck even Clone Wars, (as Dave was able to change his mind on some things like Ashoka) the man was legitimately brilliant on his own. The Prequels despite what the vocal minority hatedom would have anyone believe were successful after all.
If you keep his quirkiness but at the same time skill and intimidation that he carried in the 2003 show I think that woud be best. Let him have his banter with Obi Wan, let him run and hide like he always does. But he needs as the 2D show described, fear, surprise, and intimidation on his side. You can keep his quirkiness and maintain his credibility if it's implemented properly. Have him taunt his foes but be over to overpower them without needing all four arms. Maintain the shock value the 2003 show had by only taking out his other arms when he IS going to kill his opponent. That way in universe, until revenge of the sith or the end of the show, no one would know but those he's killed.
I quite literally had to pause the screen and smile for 30 seconds when he was shown in the intro to The Bad Batch series. Indescribable joy from seeing him for just seconds on screen. That says enough about what I think. Please let him return, and make it worthwhile.
He was cool and had a lot of anger. I agree with the fact that his backstory in legens is something that should beenused in the movies and CW. Also even if his fights with Obi-Wan was entertaining, we should have seen him kill more Jedi
Agreed, I wish we got the 4 hour cut of ROTS where Grievous killed Shaak Ti on the Invisible Hand to establish that Grievous is a threat. But 2003 Clone Wars was also a good way to extend the story of the Prequels & flesh out Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, Anakin & Obi Wan's friendship, & set up the Prequel Villains as established threats. Grievous gets a B from me
I agree on the LEGO Star Wars boss fight. I always found that the large amounts of climbing up a mountain just to him him once and then going back down was excessive. If it had more just plain fighting I think his character would be an A for me.
I think a huge part of the reason in the Clone Wars (2008) he seems to be cowardly, or run away, is because they had to stay true to Mace Windus line from Revenge of the Sith: "Grievous will run and hide like he always does." Part of the thing is that they had to be true to what the movie set him up as: someone who does run away, hence the escape pod from the Invisible hand and Running away from ObiWan on Utapau once obi had cut off two of his hands
For those wondering, his backstory can be found in the (now Legends) book Labyrinth of Evil. It's a great book that immediately precedes RotS and culminates in Grievous sneaking onto Coruscant to kidnap the chancellor and fighting Mace Windu on a train. As other comments in the video said, Grievous is a great villain in the books and this book is a good example of that.
Filoni really messed this guy up. This character really needs to worked on. It's sad the clone wars is over and he can't do anything about it. There needs to be more prequel content so grevious can be turned into the strategic genius he once was.
I couldn't agree more with what you've said. I would have absolutely loved for Grievous to appear in very few episodes of the CGI show, but have these episodes be terrifying just like Grievous' appearances in the 2003 cartoon. Just imagine seeing a group of jedi you care about, thinking they are dealing with just some more droids shenanigans, and slowly realizing, upon venturing deep into a cavern, or a crashed starship, that this is no normal situation. Then they would get ambushed by Grievous, and from that moment, it becomes a run and fight for their lives, as they would need to hide and flee, witnessing, or rather, hearing the distant echoing screams of their comrades who are being slaughtered one by one. And maybe have the general mocking them for hiding, taunting them while threatening to murder a captured padawan. I don't know, but this character is a wasted potential. Worked good in the movie as a second-class character, but a long-running show like the 2008 clone wars should have taken the opportunity to do him better, to make his appearances truly memorable. There's a reason why everybody remembers the 2003 Grievous...
I was 10 when I saw revenge of the sith and when grievous revealed his four arms and fought Obi wan I was grinning ear to ear. That scene is still one of my favorites to this day.
One side point about Grievous is the music. When creating a character u need great music, something that tells a story without words. Imperial March anyone? Darth vadars music helped create a character and u had an understanding without exposition. Listen to Grievous' theme. It's amazing! It helps us see, with our ears, what this guy is all about! So when taking that into consideration it helps make Grievous, though short screen time, be more complete.
One of the comments I noticed mentioned something about him being inconsistent between the Micro Series and film due to him be much weaker in the film, I think that can be waived seeing how he had is chest crushed by Mace and probably did'nt have the time or facilities to get the repairs needed to bring him back up to his peak before his final battle. I give him an A since he's tied with Thrawn as my favorite character.
"Grevious will run and hide like he always does" -Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith. Just wanted to say that but I mean Grevious did serve his purpose in the film. He looks threatening and cool, he has a couple of epic moments every now and again in the film, canon comics and clone wars though probably too few as most of the time he's a coward which is an interesting trait if done right but probably not one you want to see in a villain and is very easy to hate on. He doesn't have much going for him as a character tbh though in legends he did especially with his backstory so I'd say a B for Legends and in Canon a C maybe a D because obviously he doesn't even compare to the characters already assessed so far but it's early days, there's still many to come and quite a few will score below him
That line from Windu in ROTS can be taken literally in the current canon timeline, but in the EU/Legends timeline that line can be seen as smart talking/badmouthing/belittling the enemy side instead.
Regarding Grievous showing up in Episode II, there's actually a really simple way to make he and Jango both work; I've been working on a version of the Prequels that I think might flow a bit better than what we eventually got, and the set up for this version is that Dooku was not a Sith, but had left the Order following Qui-Gon's death (and thus was present in Episode I) after becoming disillusioned with the Jedi. Years pass and he forms the Separatists, and we're eventually introduced to his two lieutenants: Jango Fett and Grievous. Let Jango be the more refined and "noble" villain, a killer with standards, and discuss on screen his backstory from Legends where his faction in the Mandalorian Civil War was wiped out by Jedi (even add to the irony by having them be Jedi under the command of Dooku and Windu, and have Windu be the one to fill Obi-Wan in on who the Mandalorians are, and then have Jango later on have a conversation on Geonosis with Obi-Wan about what actually happened to provide more context; maybe even have Obi-Wan remark that despite what's happened, he doesn't sense outright hatred from Jango, just a desire for revenge). Meanwhile Grievous is savagery and ferocity, a monster without morals or mercy. He first encounters Obi-Wan on Geonosis when he's exploring the catacombs; it's Grievous who captures Obi-Wan, and Dooku has to intervene to prevent Grievous from killing Obi-Wan (a nod to a similar scene with Vader, Tarkin, and Motti in A New Hope). Dooku gives Grievous's backstory while he's trying to recruit Obi-Wan, using him as an example of the kinds of monsters the Republic can create and making it clear he's only using the Kaleesh because he's the best Dooku has access to, and he'd much rather work with Jedi, who at least have standards. During the Battle of Geonosis, we see Windu confront Fett one last time as he and Boba try to escape, and Windu kills him in fair combat, when Fett refuses to be arrested, his men having previously been murdered while in Jedi custody. Meanwhile, we see a group of Jedi try to prevent Dooku from escaping, only to have Grievous attack and slaughter them, much to Dooku's disgust, who sends the droid away, leading to his own confrontation with Obi-Wan and Anakin.
I respect the General. He's a savage with the sabers and ruthless in one on one combat. I wish there was a film on Disney+ about his origins and training, and his eventual demise at the hand (or blaster) of Kenobi.
I find myself wondering if the Sequel trilogy will be beloved as my generation loved the Prequels. Hell until the sequels came out I didnt know how much everyone hated the Prequels back then lol. Kids of today may love this trilogy but I cant help but wonder how the will stack up in 10-15 years
@Lionard Kirsch I had seen the original trilogy before the Prequels when I was a kid and loved them both. Now that I'm older I do understand some of the cringe at times but they have a special place in my heart. I remember loving how much better the saber fights were and force abilities etc but the OT definitely has the best writing by far. As for Disney SW. I liked The Force Awakens alright besides Rey downloading ability and beating Kylo at the end (stupid). BUT TLJ ruined everything lol.
Great job! I feel grievous was such a wasted character. I know the 2003 clone wars version gets a lot of love but if y’all haven’t read the episode 3 novelization by Matthew Stover, you are missing out on an absolute terror! Grievous kills his own neimoidian staff just for annoying him, or questioning his orders. The book gets into his mindset and how terribly numb he is to feeling any type of sympathy or even pleasure for that matter. He is this terribly empty killing machine, with only rage in him.
In the Cartoon Clone Wars..Dooku says Grevious needs surprise and intimidation on his side if he wishes to take on Master Jedi...but should flee if any of those things are missing..The Clone Wars and ROTS movie was pretty truthful to that advice... as Grevious will often happily play with weaker opponents like Assoka...using only two hands to fight her when they first meet.....and won't fight fair using his droid army or guards if he is outmatched or outnumbered...the fact he took Obi multiple time (a Jedi who has taken on Maul and his brother at the same time...or finished Maul in 3 moves) is still impressive...
This was one of those cases where I honestly fell in love with his first appearance, to the point where in the first version of Lego Star Wars I got my hands on (GBA), I was surprised and hyped seeing him appear as a boss in the Episode 3 segment of the game, so knowing he was gonna show up in the movie made me want to see Revenge even more. The only downside I find is that his later incarnations never lived up to the legend, or if they did, it seemed it was for a brief moment in time. I still would consider Grievous coughing due to his injuries in the original Clone Wars mini series, and maybe that nerfed him in the movies, but I kind of expected Grievous to do a bit more in the newer series even if the old canon got retconned. A bit of a wasted potential, but I still love him because of that first appearance. It's why I still voted a B for him, even though he would have gotten an A if he was better handled.
Dude is my favourite character in all of star wars and I could go on about him all day. As long as we avoid TCW, I'd argue most of his other portrayals are at least passable. The novels being the best examples with 2003 clone wars right behind them. I still think of him when I think separatist before even Dooku, since he was the only one who believed in their cause and army, even if he was manipulated to do so. No other character in star wars can get me on board or invested as quickly as Grievous, since if he's involved then shit is gonna go down in some fashion
@@emberfist8347 he gets beaten or escaped by nearly everyone he fights in TCW CGI. Ashoka gets away from him, Fisto does, Kenobi humiliates him many times, Anakin bests him tactically, Padme and 3PO trick him, Jar Jar tricks him, he's captured by GUNGANS...the list goes on. He's turned into a saturday morning cartoon villain whose only talent is running away in TCW CGi, they butchered him as a character!
Grievous is still one of the coolest cyborgs in sci fi for me and is an excellent foreshadow of Darth Vader. Yes he got sillier in clone wars but he still had his menacing moments. He’s kind of like obi wans arch nemesis and he fills that role nicely
@@emberfist8347 yes, also people give all gungans a bad rep because of jar jar, they are warriors, so I don't think less of grievous for losing to them, especially since he killed the gungan general in the process.
Alright in defense of clone wars Grievous, Mace Windu establishes that Grievous is a coward and always ran away to hide. “General Grievous will run and hide as he always does. He’s a coward” - Mace Windu. So for the people who say that he was this monster in battle and a Jedi killer, I don’t see why your upset that he always loses. It was already known that he had always lost and was a coward. While I do see that Grievous should’ve killed more Jedi for his “collection”, the other points about him being silly and terrible are ridicules. This is why I don’t have a problem with the clone wars Grievous. Am I wrong, if so feel free to disagree in the replies.
Honestly the Eu is why I loved grevious I really liked the depiction of his character in the expanded universe especially in labyrinth of evil were it’s a perfect balance of an intimating grevious and a grevious that has character to him
I wonder how the sequel trilogy would’ve been if Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and Grievous were the same character? Imagine after Darth Maul is bisected, his design is the Grievous armor but with the black n red face paint on the bone armor. And he leads the separatists like Dooku, but he learns he is merely a prototype for Palpatine’s plans for Vader.
@@emberfist8347 yea a bit stylized but i liked the attempt to expand force powers and such and i liked the action more than cgi tcw (which feels robotic to me)
@@emberfist8347 I won't argue it does.. but the epic parts I liked greatly outweighed those that weren't. Since I kinda forgot those weird parts til you brought it up. The one part that standed out for me i didn't like was mace punching droids but.. again I liked the attempt and the force powers he used were awesome. I just found it hard to believe his fist punching through metal but again perhaps force punches lol. But I get your point. But for me CGI TCW show is so long and drawn out I see way more weird wonkiness and less memorable moments. Mostly cuz the action isn't as good cuz cgi fights look bad imo. But they got better... still doesn't hold a candle up to the cartoon's flame imo. Which is why I can hardly stand CGI TCW show. Cuz I was overly hyped about cartoon (didn't get to see for years til I purchased it) then it was as good as I always imagined it so kinda hard to change my mind on why I like cartoon better. Kinda nostalgic in a sense for me.
Its no secret I’ve always been fond of grievous, I always thought his scenes in ROTS were awesome. I was always disappointed at his defeats in the 2008 series but celebrated his aggressive bouts of villainy as well and it made his few bouts of victory a bit more appreciated. My appreciation for the character only grew when I learned of his legend origins and stories such as the 2003 CW and the labyrinth of evil. While I don’t despise the canon version its clear that he’s not nearly as developed or interesting enough in comparison to the old EU. I can understand to an extend that dave wanted to stick to whatever georges idea was idea was in making him a mustache twirling saturday morning cartoon villain but That doesn’t mean I agree with it or accept it. Grievous deserves more than he has been given I know this much. At the very least I kinda find his fate funny in canon in that the cybernetics of his brain were integrated into A B1 battle droid model by a rebel and it became a nightmarish rampant murder machine!
People forget about the Crystal Crisis arc. It may have never aired, but I think it's safe to call it cannon. Effectively this shows how Grevious has developed as a character. He is not a coward, but a strategist. In this arc, he is brutal, precise, and is constantly a step ahead of the jedi, defeating Obi Wan in a duel within a couple of minutes.
I give Qui Gon Jinn an A because he the most wise & greatest Jedi due to his belief of the balance of both the light & dark sides of the force and that why he see in Anakin as he is the chosen one. Seeing him getting killed in the Phantom Menace was upsetting as he would complete his training to become a force ghost, but that was cut short thanks to Darth Maul. I will say that Qui Gon was the most greatest Jedi and he was the one to see the down side of the Jedi order as they are lose-sing the way of force (I’m talking about the events of before the Prequel Trilogy where he see them become more arrogant) in one of the comics in Age of the Republic.
Say what you want about the prequals, but you did remember the villain in each movie even if the movie wasn't great. I think our general Grievous was the best example in more than one way. In the movie he was an interesting set piece that worked well for the movie and role he was in. In the 2d animated series he was a hunter, a killer, and a horror to face. In legends he became expanded upon as the villain held up his name, his title, and his infamy. In Disney cannon he was a blunder. A descent role for a punching bag for the heroes to beat... But a far cry from his previous two incarnations. In some ways he does the best representation of star wars. A neat idea by George Lucas. A great character expanded upon by other writers and fans of the series. A blunder under Disney as they need someone to play a role they wanted but didn't look back too much to see what the character actually was. yes the animated clone wars series did a lot right and it was pretty good... But general Grievous is the best example for how star wars has been treated.
I haven't watched Clone Wars, but I played the Lego game as a kid. From that I remember Grievous as the boss you fight multiple times and who runs away on one heart every goddamn time.
Grievous for me is still an A, regardless if the “legends” version is cooler. Although Grievous isn’t OP in TCW, he still defeat Kenobi more times than people think (eg in the malevolence Obi W clearly retreats after being battered) + he crushes Eeth Koth.
I feel you could sum up General Grievous' Legend's characterisation and his character assassination from that in canon in the same manner of how Palpatine talks about Darth Plagueis; Grievous starts off with incredibly awesome potential, with an interesting history and even his species, the Kaleesh, being a really cool addition to the Star Wars universe, and him being a nightmare for Jedi during the Clone Wars era makes him come off like a Terminator. But, it wasn't what Lucas intended for him, and because of that, he went from an intimidating general who could take on 5 Jedi at once...to a craven idiot who can't even kill a bunch of Gungans, and has a constant coughing fit long before it made sense in the original Clone Wars show (where Mace Windu crushed his chest, damaging his lungs). That's the tragedy of General Grievous; he was made to be so powerful, the worst thing to happen to him was losing his power, which eventually of course he'd have to. Unfortunately, he lost it sooner than we wanted him to.
As weurd as it sounds I'd actually like to see a grievous Disney + series. In Legends he has a really rich backstory, but even if they went with a different approach, i think it still would have such an amazing potential. I mean seriously a warrior reduced to a few living organs, given a cybernetic body, becomes an unstoppable killing machine. I just think it's really hard to mess up such a backstory. He could be a really tragic and deep character. It's basically pure potential for a great show. Of course a problem with it is that idk if many people would want to watch that, so Disney probably won't even think about it. However if they ever made it they'd have at least one viewer. :)
I would've loved to see a version of Grievous with even more arms. Make him more spider-like, with limbs of various sizes all folded against his torso and hidden beneath his cape. We get hints here and there, but only finally see them when he and Obi-Wan duel on Utapau.
Personally I find it quite funny whenever one of Grievous plans fails and the last thing you see is his escape pot with an exploding ship in the background. Granted he seems pretty weak in several episodes and tends to overestimate himself but towards the end of TCW he clearly grows more powerful, especially in his later fights with Obi-Wan.
I feel like they could have introduced Grievous in Attack of the clones on Geonosis. Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme barely manage to stop the creatures that were sent in, so Dooku sends in Grievous to finish them off. That's when the Jedi arrive and help. Even then they barely manage to hold him back before needing to retreat with the clones.
![What Grievous did with a Group of Jedi Younglings he Captured [Legends]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RDlgF6KaJbQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Reply to this comment with your nomination for which character we should do next. As always, the single comment with the most votes (thumbs up) is the winner.
Captain Rex
Yoda
Ezra
Jango Fett
Captain RexRian he would be great!
I've always liked the representations that Lucas gave his villains throughout the prequel trilogy. You have Maul who is a dark side user, Dooku who is a fallen Jedi, and finally you have Grievous who is a cyborg. these are all things that Anakin became in his pursuit to save padme and gain more power. The prequels get a lot of flack but at the same time Lucas did put a lot of thought into these. So while grievous character may have been diluted because of the clone wars series I feel it doesn't take away from what he is supposed to be and that is a monstrous Jedi killing machine.
In my opinion i think the problem with the three villains serving Palpatine throughout the clone wars was that they had little to no connection to each other, and so the symbolism that you pointed out there wasn't prominent enough to work as actual foreshadowing. In hindsight i would have wanted Maul, Tyranus (i refuse to call him dOOKu) and Grievous to have been there since Episode 1 (somehow as silhouettes behind the same allegiance) , so that we would have enjoyed seeing each one revealed and explored (and, unfortunately, defeated) over the course of the trilogy. So what folks are saying about GG in Attack of the Clones is something i tangentially agree with.
Dooku would have benefitted so much as a character from being in The Phantom Menace as a Jedi losing faith in the order and talking with Qui-Gon
They should’ve made him like the version in the micro-series
His design is amazing. It screams Jedi Executioner. So many wasted characters, man.
@@Nin-Saber good point.
I feel Grievous sparing Shaak-Ti in the 2003 version was a sort of "Warrior's Respect" kind of thing. She managed to fend off so many Magna-Guards and even when she was weakened, she took up her saber to fight him to save Palpatine.
I don't think so. I think he just wanted to humiliate her and force her to live with her failure for the time being.
Plus, Grievous knew about Order 66, so he expected her to die soon anyway.
I think leaving her alive was more to mark her with shame. When he had Ki-Adi and the other Jedi surrounded, he promised to give each of them a warrior's death.
@@MM-xn6tn yeah, good point.
I think Grievous left her alive so she could tell the Republic that the Chancellor's been captured alive. After all, if Mace Windu hadn't shown up when he did, Grievous would've just flown back up to his ship, and Shaak-Ti would be the only person who knew he got away with the Chancellor. That way, if he made a, "We have your precious Chancellor, now give in to the Separatists' demands!" speech, the Republic would believe him.
@@matthewmuir8884 That is another possibility. After all, Grievous said in the movie that he expected Anakin and Obi-Wan to come for Palpatine just as Dooku predicted and even Obi-Wan sensed that the whole thing was a trap. And the droid infantry made sure none of the Jedi on Coruscant could reach Grievous' ship, leaving Anakin and Obi-Wan the only available Jedi to handle the rescue mission (since Ki-Adi-Mundi was on Mygeeto, Aayla Secura on Felucia, Plo Koon on Cato Neimoidia and Quinlan Vos on Boz Pity).
But it also wouldn't be out of character for Grievous to simply shatter Shaak Ti's pride instead of killing her right away, especially since they had a rivalry throughout the series and Shaak Ti already put him in an embarrassing position in the train station scene.
I like how, other than Luke, all the episodes in this series have been about prequel-era characters. Keep nominating them guys!
Next, Dexter Jettster!!
@@ImTheReverse He's hands down an A++
I'mTheReverse without Dex, the clone army would’ve never been discovered! 🤔
@@rileyh814 Hence why he's A++
@@emberfist8347 Disney did chewie dirty with their humanocentric ways.....
something they have in common with the empire, which discriminated against non-humans
Legends Grievous, Dooku, and Jango were all great villains because they show the failings of the Republic (and in extension the Jedi) in many different ways. They are in my opinion the best poster boys of the Separatist movement and the best way to illustrate why the CIS did what they did and hate the Republic and Jedi as much as they did alien businessmen aside
Yup would have been cool if the Cis could get a micro series about them. I know depending on the cannon you go by everyone is pretty much different. But an on screen mini series about this short lived faction and their struggles only to ultimately become a sacrifice upon Palpatine's alter would be a nice and tragic story.
@Lionard Kirsch indeed.
Every Star Wars trilogy has their “badass looking but wasted character”.
Prequels: General Grievous
Originals: Boba Fett
Sequels: Captain Phasma
Just waiting for the Mandalorian to have there’s lol.
I sincerely hope it won't be Ashoka
The widow
Seriously how was she already a sharp shooter
Captain Phasma was no Boba Fett. She was completely irrelevant to the story. Boba Fett may not have had a personality, but at least he moved the plot forward by tracking down Han Solo and bringing him to Jabba the Hutt. And Grievous was also important, unlike Phasma. Grievous was the reason Obi-Wan and Anakin separated and his death marked the final defeat of the CIS.
Pharma wasn't very bad ass imo. I won't hate on her too much bc the entire thing was mishandled. I just don't that she should be in company with Boba Fett and GG
Another video to add to my collection!
TCW Grievous works best when he's in episodes where he doesn't have to be defeated. I specifically cite a few episodes in Seasons 4 and 5 where Grievous would basically just have "background" fights in one of which he full on sparta kicks Adi Gallia down a hallway. If only all his appearances were like that and he wasn't relegated to the formulaic villain we saw mostly in Season 1
@@emberfist8347 beaten by kit fisto and nahdar, beaten later on by fisto, has to be saved from eeth koth, beaten by obi wan numerous times, beaten by fucking gungans, beaten by ventress.
he beats and kills nahdar, "defeats" ashoka twice, beats adi galia in an easily missable 4 second clip, beats kenobi once in an unfinished episode.
the feared jedi hunter, the knight slayer kills ONE jedi in the shows entire run...that is honestly pathetic, savage oppress kills more jedi onscreen than grievous does for god sake.
@@James-pt2vk Okay, to be fair he did beat and capture Koth, so I still count that as a win. And in the defense of the Gungans beating him, he was outnumbered by like 100 to 1. Just like with the Jedi at the first battle of Geonosis and during Order 66, it doesn't matter how powerful you are if your fighting hundreds of opponents all attacking you at once you will be defeated, they may take several troops down first before that, but they are not going to win with these odds. Granted I feel Grievous should have killed more than 5 Gungans before he was beaten, like maybe 50 or so, so that pisses me off, but it's not unbelievable he could lose that fight when he was that outnumbered.
@@zexalbrony4799 he didnt beat eeth koth his guards shocked him into submission. As for the gungans legends grievous would of ripped through them...you cant expect me to believe a cyborg that speed blitzez and slaughters beings with precognition to lose to gungans that have only ever been displayed as stupid and incompotent. I could rsnt for hours about tcw grievous and dave fillonis clear hatred for the character
@@zexalbrony4799 battle droids were never displayed as incompotent though, they were always portrayed as a silent swarm kind of army with only the commanders speaking, it was tcw that made the battle droids comic relief to the calibre they are known as now and insanely incompotent
in this one battle where grievous takes obi wans ship, he kills several clones and grabs ones head with his foot and crushes him in front of obi wan, causing obi wan to get angry.
To his credit. As a "Cool" looking villian he has a decently deep arch (legends in particular) which is pretty rare...
Grievous, design wise, is one of my absolute favorite star wars chracters, it doesnt get much cooler than a robot skull faced 4 armed light saber wielding spider cyborg. Plus he's got a really cool voice. Character wise though, he's never had much going on. He was at least really intimidating and badass in the tartakovsky clone wars series. He was pretty good in revenge of the sith too. Filoni's clone wars, as much as I love it, does grievous a major disservice and more or less turns him into a walking joke. Overall I like Grievous a lot, but he's always needed a lot more to flesh out his character.
@@emberfist8347 anyone know why he has the exact same hilt as Anakin just w/ a green blade instead && why he straight up has the same lightsaber as Obi-Wan..?? I know Grevious 'collects' Jedi sabers & everything but aren't they all unique to the person who crafted the saber themselves? I'm super confused
I wish Filoni hadn't turned Grievous into a bad joke that never gives the viewer any reason to take him seriously. Even though he wasn't as intimidating in Episode III as he was in Tartakovsky's Clone Wars, at least Lucas depicted him as a cunning and resourceful warrior and tactician.
I feel he’s similar to hux. Had lots of potential but a over comedic take on them in a movie(lucas and Johnson) . Led to someone else kinda throwing them away(JJ and Dave )
@@emberfist8347 No he wasn't. Even when he came up with a good plan or was seemingly victorious, he was always outsmarted. And no. He only won a handful of duels, and always by using dirty tricks instead of something really clever. This is why the writers should have avoided making him fight characters with plot armor and this also why it was a stupid decision to create a rivalry between him and Obi-Wan, especially since Episode III implied that they had never fought before and that Obi-Wan was unaware that Grievous was skilled with lightsabers.
@@dannyhuskerjay Lucas didn't depict Grievous comically. Filoni did that. Lucas' Grievous was resourceful, was quick to think of a back-up plan if things went wrong and felt like an actual threat.
As seen in the special features of the collectors edition, it was George NOT Dave that did the characterization for Grevious, he specifically wanted Grievious to be the classic I'll get you next time archetype of villain. Which does match up with RotS.
@@emberfist8347 No. He lost all the time. He always lost to Obi-Wan, he lost to Kit Fisto, he lost to Asajj Ventress, he lost to the Gungans and he threw himself on the ground whimpering when Hondo shot him. Even the writers admitted that he barely won any fight in the series. And that's why they made him massacre the Nightsisters in attempt to make him feel like a threat.
And no, fighting dirty was never a part of his character. What was a part of his character was use cunning and psychological warfare to break the Jedi to make sure he'd win.
"Neck and neck with Dooku" at 1:31. I see what ya did there, Thor.
Definitely wish we got more screen time with him, could have put him in the end of Attack of the Clones when he was hiding in the arena an killed those Jedi.
Lionard Kirsch I agree that would have been cool to see. But we know how much of a “diplomat” Grievous is.
Could've had his own 'Vader hallway scene' on Geonosis
JP likes pineapple now that would have been BADASS!!!
I agree; though perhaps it would be even better if him and Dooku (as silhouettes) were already there since Episode 1 and Palpatine was just letting each take the lead as he saw fit. That way they could have been more appreciated by the time of thier respective debut.
Matthew Wilson I agree with the Dooku part in 1 because it would have let us see the bigger picture. Grievous would have been appropriate to bing into 2 because the events of TFM happened before his injuries did.
”Canon” is often mentioned. ”Sadly its not Canon this, sadly its not Canon that”. I dont care if Disney calls it Canon or not. If I like it, then it counts to me. The word ”Canon” I dont even recognise. I like the novel Darth Plagueis and the Bane trilogy. So that’s what happend. The Star Wars film saga is 6 chapters. It ends perfectly with Return of the Jedi. So that’s what happend. If you like the sequel trilogy, then that’s what happend. Very simple.
Dani Nilsen preach it brother. Grievous is a legend and Filoni can go suck a big one.
@@drybitter2650 Oof, Filoni may have done grievous dirty but also made anakin, obiw-wan, dooku, sidious, and others even more fleshed out and likable (maybe not sidious lol)
Agreed!
@@drybitter2650 Greivous did have some vader like moments in the clone wars actually
@@Killerbee4712 Dooku was also ruined by Filoni. Not only did he become a silly edgelord, but he also became pathetic. Dumbass got captured by pirates.
The original Grievous was so terrifying that they had to nerf him, he was the best villain with Vader.
51dodoc have you ever heard the tragedy of darth Plageuis the wise? I thought not......
Jedi running away and hiding from Grievous like little scared children really made me roll my eyes.
@@jamiebraswell5520 why? it was only the padawans who ran from grievous like scared children.
@@jamiebraswell5520
They had to take the chancellor in a safe location, also Grievous wasn't alone, the jedis were outnumbered in both encounters and knew they couldn't win.
amen. his 1st appearance was scary.
I sense the Force growing stronger. Thor Skywalker have just uploaded.
As a fanfiction writer of some Clone Wars era events, I can understand the difficulties with writing Grevious, so I can understand the challenge Dave and his team faced. The 2003 Mirco Series made him seem completely OP, but in contrast Revenge of the Sith showed him beaten rather easily by Obi-Wan, especially since George Lucas said he would be more of mustache-twirling villain who flees when his plans fall. Thus, we have two different extremes for a character, thus making it hard to find what is the definitive version of Grevious.
Personally, I feel a balance is needed, where he's a decent enough fighter but doesn't just rely on his own power and skill, and instead uses clever if not dirty tactics to win battles, thus showing him as a smart fighter. For example, having his MagnaGaurds back him up and soften the Jedi up, or using his enhancements, such as his extra arms in more clever ways, like how he pulled out a blaster with one of them to shoot Nadar while he had him in a saber lock, or when he used one to grab Obi-Wan by the face during a lock during the Battle of Kamino.
He was not OP in the microseries. He just knew how to break the Jedi before engaging them.
when grevious fought mace in some sort of legends material he started to mimic his fighting style even without a force connection (maces fighting style is very force dependent), this terrified mace and he immediately retreated from the battle. my dream for grevious (in the canon clone wars anyway) has always been for him to fight mace and mimic his fighting style and become an absolute monster for a 3-4 episode arc which ends with palpy and dooku wiping his memory because theyre terrified he could actually stand up against them.
@@jamesrothery4013 That would have made sense, explained the issues with Grevious, and have been really cool.
@@zexalbrony4799 Thanks :)
@Lionard Kirsch I would have loved to see that Duel in Episode 3. I already love Episode 3 but that would make me like it more. Also, your right sometimes people should have said no to George, but they didn't so this is the Grievous we got in Episode 3, and now we have to deal with that as part of his character, even if we don't like it.
While we’re going with prequel/CW villians, do Ventress next
He isn't particularly a strongly-written character, but he does have the most impressive lightsaber collection in the franchise, so I can give him that.
I get wanting villains to be relatable and complex, but I think there’s also place for villains who just are designed well and just there to move the plot or cause destruction (ie Ledgers Joker). It doesn’t matter where he comes from he just needs to challenge the heros on their journey
Hey, Thor. Don't forget that Grievous fits incredibly well with German music about Russia. Check out Moskau and Ra Ra Rasputin XD
If we're counting his Legends backstory (which I personally do), then I think he's a fantastic character. The "modern" Grievous is incredibly disappointing though.
Haha, I get it. More than meets the eye.
I wonder if Megatron is Boba Fett's blaster?
Next: Mitth'raw'nuruodo, or in other words, Grand Admiral Thrawn
Tartakovsky: You shall be known as a *Jedi Killer*
Dave Filoni: I'm about to end this cyborg's whole career
Grevious needed some darker moments in The Clone Wars that's for sure..
@@emberfist8347 He didn't kill the younglings. Trust me, wanting to kill kids and actually killing them are very different, otherwise every Parent ever would be in jail.
@@emberfist8347 *Insert Kylo "MORE" meme here* I wanted to see him do a 980 screaming tornado attack with all 4 arms slicing and dicing Jedi. Or him crushing Sha'gi under his talloned feet.
@@Armoless but seriously he also did prove to have the potential to be a good horror like villian in the episdoe where he killed Kit fisto's apprentice
@@Armoless In a comic book he wanted to turn a bunch of younglings into cyborgs to be his bodyguards (William Afton vibes).
Star Wars Clone Wars 2003 General Grievous is an A for me. The 2003 version of Grievous is canon to me and not the Grievous from the 2008 Dave Filoni did him wrong Grievous deserves better than that.
That was George not Dave. Heck the canon characterization premiered in RotS.
Blake Tyson your ether a troll or a fucking idiot.
@Lionard Kirsch
You can prefer the Legends version but it is wrong to say that the canon version butchered the character as that is how he was always meant to be in George's mind.
@Lionard Kirsch
Truth be told he isn't actually a weakling. Grevious was responsible for the genocide of the Night Sisters (including Mother Tazlin later) after all, he even kills a Jedi Knight onscreen unlike in RotS. The only real time he has any trouble is up against a Jedi Master or up against weaponry created spefically to damage droids and even then it took a sacrfice to make it actually do anything.
what about later clone wars? people only refer to it as "2008" which was the movie which is arguably one of the worst star wars films
General grievous is quite the foe.
He's got 4 light sabers that he uses to overwhelm his opponents and despite having nope force abilities he can still high jump and do all sorts of acrobatics.
He is not one who should be taken lightly at all and is a major threat to anyone who dares to oppose this cybernetic sith.
Sith?
Not a sith
I’d really like to see more on Asajj Ventress. She’s one of my favorite characters in Star Wars and has such a complex and tragic story.
Jango Fett and General Grievous in the Expanded Universe (EU) were such great characters compared to them on the big screen the former was a young child who saw his family murdered by Death Watch and rescued/adopted by Jaster Mereel who would raise him to become a true Mandalorian and the latter was simply a chieftain warrior who had a wife and lost everything in an accident which transformed him into a cyborg monstrosity.
I really like the extended lore of Dooku and Grievous. They were both created by the corruption in the Republic and the harm the Jedi caused in their ignorance serving the Republic before the Force. I also find their relationship interesting. I love the Separatists as a whole because of this as they are the forgotten elements, people who are rising up at injustice and being forced to lean on corrupt and evil people to get their victory but are really just tools for a true villain to take control. The prequels are an extended tragedy that is a delicious stage for the empire to take control.
In The Clone Wars, they should’ve kept General Loathsome around in the role of Grievous and had Grievous be more like in the original Clone Wars. Instead, they turned him into Skeletor, like in Revenge of the Sith.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Qymaen Jai Sheelal the Kaleesh Jedi Killer? I thought not, it’s not a story The Clone Wars 2008 would tell you.
As someone who is a massive Grievous fan and grew up with both versions of the character, I remember being so confused when I was older and heard that not only people hated 2008’s Grievous, but that his awesome backstory was also changed.
As a kid growing up watching/reading Star Wars, I obviously didn’t grasp concepts such as “canon”. So despite me not watching CW 2003 until I got older, I was in touch with its version of the character thanks to the awesome Clone Wars Adventures comics I read before and in conjunction with Filoni’s series. As well as the Labyrinth of Evil book I read pretty much because it was recommended to me and because it had Grievous on its cover.
Even to this day I look back fondly on the Grievous’s from TCW 2008, yeah I agree with some of the issues people point out, but I look at that version as one watered down to fit better with the target the series had in its first two seasons, which were kids. I feel this iteration of the character started to fail when they kept watering him down while the rest of the series was starting to become more and more mature, just like the audience that started watching it as kids, resulting in having Grievous completely contrasting with “new” villains such as Maul who from the get-go started out having excellent development due to them being introduced during the shows’s change of philosophy. Fortunately, they started to tune Grievous to the new direction in his last episodes, but it was already too late and the series got cancelled. And now, we are having a limited season in which the arc that made the most justice to him was cut, and Maul became the Villain that Grievous was originally in CW 2003 and as I see it, should have been here as well.
Now with the Disney continuity, new material such as “SW: Myths and Fables” started to deepen in the new backstory that Filoni tried to keep vague enough so if you didn’t like it, you could just fill it with the original one. So Grievous went from having arguably the most tragic backstory in the saga, to have a very lame one in which he basically hated the Jedi because they didn’t accept him into the Order due to him lacking force sensitivity. Thankfully, due to its nature, this version is not 100% confirmed to be a reality and comics out there such as Son of Dathomir or even Age of Republic, showed me there are authors out there willing to restore him to his previous glory. So hopefully, it’s just a matter of LucasFilm giving the right people the right space to do so in the future, through a show, comic, videogame or even a movie. This canon is just starting so I’m optimistic that characters such as Grievous will get justice eventually. For the time being, I will remain visiting Legends as my main continuity, where he and other characters have been treated better.
Sorry for the long comment, I just think Grievous is one of the most mistreated and unappreciated characters in the new continuity and by fans who aren’t acquainted to his story. Hope that with my fangirl rant, some people who can’t understand why some folks would rate him higher than a C (as I’ve read in some of the comments in the poll), gained a new insight into Grievous. Or at the very least, understood how some people can love a character that was originally not only an A+++++, but also probably the ultimate villain of the Prequel Trilogy at one point, just like Vader is the ultimate villain of the OT.
Blake Tyson yes it changed, people say it changed in the lair of Grievous episode, although as I’ve mentioned, Filoni despite bringing new elements of his past, he kept it vague enough so you could still fit the EU material if you wanted, and I respect him for that despite not doing that well with the rest of the character.
It was with the new Disney continuity that LucasFilm grabbed Filoni’s approach and started to add a new backstory, which is the one you can find in the “Myths and Fables” book I mentioned. Granted, due to it being a “myth”, it’s not confirmed whether or not that is canon or not, but there’s no other version to question it, there isn’t even other material outside that book that tries to add to the subject or give a hint to the backstory from the EU. In fact, I’m not even sure if his real name is still “canon” in Disney’s eyes.
I recently found this channel and binged it. I must say i subbed cuz u tend to go more in-depth analysis on the star wars universe. I don't agree with all your opinions (agree with most) but I respect them. Tbh I haven't seen another star wars channel like yours. The fact that you don't have more subs is crazy.👏👏
Thanks, and happy to have you here. And just because fans don't always agree (and let's be real there's nothing all fans agree on) doesn't mean we can't have respectful discussions with one another.
@@thorskywalker preach!!😂😂✊
Anakin Skywalker is and always will be my favourite Star Wars character. I absolutely love everything about him! From his charismatic banter, bravery, quick thinking, heroic yet conflicted attitude, to his intense desire to protect everyone he loves- he is a badass with the heart of an angel.
(Not to mention his outstanding lightsaber and ace piloting skills!)
The best part of my 5 o'clock drive home. Love this series
It would’ve been cool if he was introduced as collateral damage from the Battle of Geonosis. Not many people know how terrible the Jedi and Republic performed in that battle as they were both unprepared and very reckless. The battle was a crucial factor as to why some clones despised the Jedi. It could’ve been cool to see Grievous be created because of the amateurish ignorant ways of the Jedi. It would’ve given more weight to Anakin’s growing distrust of the Order and would’ve supplied us another look at Palpatine’s beliefs through Grievous. It would also give him a reason to hate the Jedi. As for Grievous being on Geonosis during the battle, the reason could be that he might’ve been a Separatist leader before becoming the Droid General.
@@emberfist8347 yeah, the best rendition of his backstory would obviously be his legends origins. This was just an idea as to how they could've handled him better in the films and how he could've been used if he were in AOTC.
I like to consider grievous’s legends backstory as canon since it doesn’t contradict with anything that’s actually canon (as of now) and we even see a statue of himself/a member of his species from the original legends backstory when kit fisto infiltrates his base.
I love his origin story before he was a cyborg.
Clone wars 2008 Grievous: A joke who was given the title Jedi killer.
Clone wars 2003 Grievous: A monster who earned the title Jedi killer.
I start looking forward to these kinds of videos everytimes I see a poll. Love the vids!
Grievous is my favourite character, I especially wish Disney never made the 2003-2005 Clone Wars legends, it would have been awesome if it were still cannon. Apparently it’s on Disney+ now. But they did this too as well to Assaj Ventress + Windu who were way more powerful in that than in TCW.
12:00 “he wasn’t in ATC”
Meanwhile Grievous in the comics in the catacombs killing his first Jedi.
Wish we got to see it.
For me, the Tartakovsky version of Grievous will always be my favorite version of the character. During his abduction of Chancellor Palpatine, he was running on walls, leaping across rooftops, and when master Roron Corobb tried blasting him with a Force amplified scream, Grievous literally compacts his arms into his body and keeps walking forward. As much as I loved Filoni's Clone Wars, I never got the sense that he could do any of that. If they used him more sparingly, took away his cough, and even gave the role of comic relief villain to a new character, then it would've been about as perfect as you could get.
Well maybe a recurring tactical droid character could have that role, and due to his failures, he gets demoted to a super tactical droids second in command.
To those who like Grevious' legends depiction, I can very much recommend his Age of Republic comic. He's kinda a mix of the 2008 TCW and legends, with the former's backstory but skills and tactics more akin to the latter
I enjoy him in the film, I love him in legends... and he gave us the INSERT "General Kenobi"+ RESPONSE IN ALL KINDS OF LANGUAGES meme, so....
But seriously though if Dave filoni and John can do maul justice I don’t see why they couldn’t do grievous any. Even bosk was cooler then him in the clone wars lol.
Blake Tyson yeah no. He was a Saturday morning cartoon villain and barley killed any Jedi even though that was his job lmao
George (not Dave) wanted Grevious to be the classic I'll get you next time villain archetype. Remember Clone Wars was George's pet project, he was heavily involved.
@Lionard Kirsch
I doubt Dave could say no to Geroge. Even if that was implemented Grevious still had some cool fights already implemented where he got to shine. People tend to overlook his successes even though they aren't as rare as some people think.
@Lionard Kirsch
Not as rare as people think though. The real problem IMO is that Legends made him a bit overpowered considering the rank in the villain tier list he was supposed to have, to the point of being more impressive than Dooku, which set up expectations, not helped by also having a awesome and more threatening design than Dooku. Even back before Clone Wars I remember people saying the same thing with just RotS. Grevious as he is, fits the story and role he was supposed to have better and I honestly doubt that if there was just this version he would be as hated. While it did help the OT and heck even Clone Wars, (as Dave was able to change his mind on some things like Ashoka) the man was legitimately brilliant on his own. The Prequels despite what the vocal minority hatedom would have anyone believe were successful after all.
@@TheSwordsman100 tcw grievous was character assassination. He wasnt depicted like that anywhere else
If you keep his quirkiness but at the same time skill and intimidation that he carried in the 2003 show I think that woud be best.
Let him have his banter with Obi Wan, let him run and hide like he always does. But he needs as the 2D show described, fear, surprise, and intimidation on his side.
You can keep his quirkiness and maintain his credibility if it's implemented properly. Have him taunt his foes but be over to overpower them without needing all four arms.
Maintain the shock value the 2003 show had by only taking out his other arms when he IS going to kill his opponent. That way in universe, until revenge of the sith or the end of the show, no one would know but those he's killed.
I quite literally had to pause the screen and smile for 30 seconds when he was shown in the intro to The Bad Batch series. Indescribable joy from seeing him for just seconds on screen. That says enough about what I think. Please let him return, and make it worthwhile.
He was cool and had a lot of anger. I agree with the fact that his backstory in legens is something that should beenused in the movies and CW. Also even if his fights with Obi-Wan was entertaining, we should have seen him kill more Jedi
Agreed, I wish we got the 4 hour cut of ROTS where Grievous killed Shaak Ti on the Invisible Hand to establish that Grievous is a threat.
But 2003 Clone Wars was also a good way to extend the story of the Prequels & flesh out Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, Anakin & Obi Wan's friendship, & set up the Prequel Villains as established threats.
Grievous gets a B from me
Even though I’ve been watching your channel for quite some time I’ve never subscribed but I did it it today and have no regrets
Fantastic looking character. Badly used lately, unfortunately.
@@emberfist8347 watch 2003 Clone wars
:,)) General Grievous is my favorite star wars character so im just glad you made a video about him
Love to see 200+ likes with 0 dislikes. Good community you've cultured here. 😊
I agree on the LEGO Star Wars boss fight. I always found that the large amounts of climbing up a mountain just to him him once and then going back down was excessive. If it had more just plain fighting I think his character would be an A for me.
I think a huge part of the reason in the Clone Wars (2008) he seems to be cowardly, or run away, is because they had to stay true to Mace Windus line from Revenge of the Sith: "Grievous will run and hide like he always does." Part of the thing is that they had to be true to what the movie set him up as: someone who does run away, hence the escape pod from the Invisible hand and Running away from ObiWan on Utapau once obi had cut off two of his hands
Don't get me wrong,i like his 2008 design,but IF he have his 2003 personality,he would be great
For those wondering, his backstory can be found in the (now Legends) book Labyrinth of Evil. It's a great book that immediately precedes RotS and culminates in Grievous sneaking onto Coruscant to kidnap the chancellor and fighting Mace Windu on a train.
As other comments in the video said, Grievous is a great villain in the books and this book is a good example of that.
So cool seeing my comment featured in the vid. Keep up the great content, Thor.
Filoni really messed this guy up. This character really needs to worked on. It's sad the clone wars is over and he can't do anything about it. There needs to be more prequel content so grevious can be turned into the strategic genius he once was.
I couldn't agree more with what you've said. I would have absolutely loved for Grievous to appear in very few episodes of the CGI show, but have these episodes be terrifying just like Grievous' appearances in the 2003 cartoon.
Just imagine seeing a group of jedi you care about, thinking they are dealing with just some more droids shenanigans, and slowly realizing, upon venturing deep into a cavern, or a crashed starship, that this is no normal situation. Then they would get ambushed by Grievous, and from that moment, it becomes a run and fight for their lives, as they would need to hide and flee, witnessing, or rather, hearing the distant echoing screams of their comrades who are being slaughtered one by one. And maybe have the general mocking them for hiding, taunting them while threatening to murder a captured padawan.
I don't know, but this character is a wasted potential. Worked good in the movie as a second-class character, but a long-running show like the 2008 clone wars should have taken the opportunity to do him better, to make his appearances truly memorable. There's a reason why everybody remembers the 2003 Grievous...
Anyone else noticed Grievous was the first non force sensitive caracter rated here?
And barely even "human" at that
I was 10 when I saw revenge of the sith and when grievous revealed his four arms and fought Obi wan I was grinning ear to ear. That scene is still one of my favorites to this day.
One side point about Grievous is the music. When creating a character u need great music, something that tells a story without words. Imperial March anyone? Darth vadars music helped create a character and u had an understanding without exposition. Listen to Grievous' theme. It's amazing! It helps us see, with our ears, what this guy is all about! So when taking that into consideration it helps make Grievous, though short screen time, be more complete.
One of the comments I noticed mentioned something about him being inconsistent between the Micro Series and film due to him be much weaker in the film, I think that can be waived seeing how he had is chest crushed by Mace and probably did'nt have the time or facilities to get the repairs needed to bring him back up to his peak before his final battle.
I give him an A since he's tied with Thrawn as my favorite character.
"Grevious will run and hide like he always does" -Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith. Just wanted to say that but I mean Grevious did serve his purpose in the film. He looks threatening and cool, he has a couple of epic moments every now and again in the film, canon comics and clone wars though probably too few as most of the time he's a coward which is an interesting trait if done right but probably not one you want to see in a villain and is very easy to hate on. He doesn't have much going for him as a character tbh though in legends he did especially with his backstory so I'd say a B for Legends and in Canon a C maybe a D because obviously he doesn't even compare to the characters already assessed so far but it's early days, there's still many to come and quite a few will score below him
That line from Windu in ROTS can be taken literally in the current canon timeline, but in the EU/Legends timeline that line can be seen as smart talking/badmouthing/belittling the enemy side instead.
well in clone wars he is a coward but that doesn't mean he can't be scary aswell and he still has proven to be amazing at lightsaber combat
Regarding Grievous showing up in Episode II, there's actually a really simple way to make he and Jango both work; I've been working on a version of the Prequels that I think might flow a bit better than what we eventually got, and the set up for this version is that Dooku was not a Sith, but had left the Order following Qui-Gon's death (and thus was present in Episode I) after becoming disillusioned with the Jedi. Years pass and he forms the Separatists, and we're eventually introduced to his two lieutenants: Jango Fett and Grievous. Let Jango be the more refined and "noble" villain, a killer with standards, and discuss on screen his backstory from Legends where his faction in the Mandalorian Civil War was wiped out by Jedi (even add to the irony by having them be Jedi under the command of Dooku and Windu, and have Windu be the one to fill Obi-Wan in on who the Mandalorians are, and then have Jango later on have a conversation on Geonosis with Obi-Wan about what actually happened to provide more context; maybe even have Obi-Wan remark that despite what's happened, he doesn't sense outright hatred from Jango, just a desire for revenge). Meanwhile Grievous is savagery and ferocity, a monster without morals or mercy. He first encounters Obi-Wan on Geonosis when he's exploring the catacombs; it's Grievous who captures Obi-Wan, and Dooku has to intervene to prevent Grievous from killing Obi-Wan (a nod to a similar scene with Vader, Tarkin, and Motti in A New Hope). Dooku gives Grievous's backstory while he's trying to recruit Obi-Wan, using him as an example of the kinds of monsters the Republic can create and making it clear he's only using the Kaleesh because he's the best Dooku has access to, and he'd much rather work with Jedi, who at least have standards.
During the Battle of Geonosis, we see Windu confront Fett one last time as he and Boba try to escape, and Windu kills him in fair combat, when Fett refuses to be arrested, his men having previously been murdered while in Jedi custody. Meanwhile, we see a group of Jedi try to prevent Dooku from escaping, only to have Grievous attack and slaughter them, much to Dooku's disgust, who sends the droid away, leading to his own confrontation with Obi-Wan and Anakin.
I respect the General. He's a savage with the sabers and ruthless in one on one combat. I wish there was a film on Disney+ about his origins and training, and his eventual demise at the hand (or blaster) of Kenobi.
I find myself wondering if the Sequel trilogy will be beloved as my generation loved the Prequels. Hell until the sequels came out I didnt know how much everyone hated the Prequels back then lol. Kids of today may love this trilogy but I cant help but wonder how the will stack up in 10-15 years
@Lionard Kirsch I had seen the original trilogy before the Prequels when I was a kid and loved them both. Now that I'm older I do understand some of the cringe at times but they have a special place in my heart. I remember loving how much better the saber fights were and force abilities etc but the OT definitely has the best writing by far. As for Disney SW. I liked The Force Awakens alright besides Rey downloading ability and beating Kylo at the end (stupid). BUT TLJ ruined everything lol.
Great job! I feel grievous was such a wasted character. I know the 2003 clone wars version gets a lot of love but if y’all haven’t read the episode 3 novelization by Matthew Stover, you are missing out on an absolute terror! Grievous kills his own neimoidian staff just for annoying him, or questioning his orders. The book gets into his mindset and how terribly numb he is to feeling any type of sympathy or even pleasure for that matter. He is this terribly empty killing machine, with only rage in him.
In the Cartoon Clone Wars..Dooku says Grevious needs surprise and intimidation on his side if he wishes to take on Master Jedi...but should flee if any of those things are missing..The Clone Wars and ROTS movie was pretty truthful to that advice... as Grevious will often happily play with weaker opponents like Assoka...using only two hands to fight her when they first meet.....and won't fight fair using his droid army or guards if he is outmatched or outnumbered...the fact he took Obi multiple time (a Jedi who has taken on Maul and his brother at the same time...or finished Maul in 3 moves) is still impressive...
This video will make a fine addition to my collection!
As your comment made a fine addition to the video.
@@thorskywalker | Yes, indeed! Thanks, Thor!
“Hello, me.”
-Lord Momin
When I first saw General grievous I always wanted a movie about him and I wanted to learn how to write a script but I’m not the best
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Red Two, Standing by!
Red Five standing by!
This was one of those cases where I honestly fell in love with his first appearance, to the point where in the first version of Lego Star Wars I got my hands on (GBA), I was surprised and hyped seeing him appear as a boss in the Episode 3 segment of the game, so knowing he was gonna show up in the movie made me want to see Revenge even more. The only downside I find is that his later incarnations never lived up to the legend, or if they did, it seemed it was for a brief moment in time. I still would consider Grievous coughing due to his injuries in the original Clone Wars mini series, and maybe that nerfed him in the movies, but I kind of expected Grievous to do a bit more in the newer series even if the old canon got retconned. A bit of a wasted potential, but I still love him because of that first appearance. It's why I still voted a B for him, even though he would have gotten an A if he was better handled.
Dude is my favourite character in all of star wars and I could go on about him all day. As long as we avoid TCW, I'd argue most of his other portrayals are at least passable. The novels being the best examples with 2003 clone wars right behind them. I still think of him when I think separatist before even Dooku, since he was the only one who believed in their cause and army, even if he was manipulated to do so. No other character in star wars can get me on board or invested as quickly as Grievous, since if he's involved then shit is gonna go down in some fashion
Grievous in legends is amazing. he's a genius tactician, a powerful combatant, rich backstory and very complex. In the new DisCan...he's a joke.
@@emberfist8347 he gets beaten or escaped by nearly everyone he fights in TCW CGI. Ashoka gets away from him, Fisto does, Kenobi humiliates him many times, Anakin bests him tactically, Padme and 3PO trick him, Jar Jar tricks him, he's captured by GUNGANS...the list goes on. He's turned into a saturday morning cartoon villain whose only talent is running away in TCW CGi, they butchered him as a character!
Grievous is still one of the coolest cyborgs in sci fi for me and is an excellent foreshadow of Darth Vader. Yes he got sillier in clone wars but he still had his menacing moments. He’s kind of like obi wans arch nemesis and he fills that role nicely
@@emberfist8347 yes, also people give all gungans a bad rep because of jar jar, they are warriors, so I don't think less of grievous for losing to them, especially since he killed the gungan general in the process.
Can we get grievous a solo series? Bring back his legends backstory? He could use one a lot more than obi wan.
Grand admiral Thrawn or Gilad Pellaeon
Alright in defense of clone wars Grievous, Mace Windu establishes that Grievous is a coward and always ran away to hide. “General Grievous will run and hide as he always does. He’s a coward” - Mace Windu. So for the people who say that he was this monster in battle and a Jedi killer, I don’t see why your upset that he always loses. It was already known that he had always lost and was a coward. While I do see that Grievous should’ve killed more Jedi for his “collection”, the other points about him being silly and terrible are ridicules. This is why I don’t have a problem with the clone wars Grievous. Am I wrong, if so feel free to disagree in the replies.
Honestly the Eu is why I loved grevious I really liked the depiction of his character in the expanded universe especially in labyrinth of evil were it’s a perfect balance of an intimating grevious and a grevious that has character to him
I wonder how the sequel trilogy would’ve been if Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and Grievous were the same character? Imagine after Darth Maul is bisected, his design is the Grievous armor but with the black n red face paint on the bone armor. And he leads the separatists like Dooku, but he learns he is merely a prototype for Palpatine’s plans for Vader.
Fact: 2003 2D Cartoon needs to be made Canon again
@@emberfist8347 lol
@@emberfist8347 yea a bit stylized but i liked the attempt to expand force powers and such and i liked the action more than cgi tcw (which feels robotic to me)
@@emberfist8347 I won't argue it does.. but the epic parts I liked greatly outweighed those that weren't. Since I kinda forgot those weird parts til you brought it up. The one part that standed out for me i didn't like was mace punching droids but.. again I liked the attempt and the force powers he used were awesome. I just found it hard to believe his fist punching through metal but again perhaps force punches lol. But I get your point. But for me CGI TCW show is so long and drawn out I see way more weird wonkiness and less memorable moments. Mostly cuz the action isn't as good cuz cgi fights look bad imo. But they got better... still doesn't hold a candle up to the cartoon's flame imo. Which is why I can hardly stand CGI TCW show. Cuz I was overly hyped about cartoon (didn't get to see for years til I purchased it) then it was as good as I always imagined it so kinda hard to change my mind on why I like cartoon better. Kinda nostalgic in a sense for me.
Its no secret I’ve always been fond of grievous, I always thought his scenes in ROTS were awesome. I was always disappointed at his defeats in the 2008 series but celebrated his aggressive bouts of villainy as well and it made his few bouts of victory a bit more appreciated. My appreciation for the character only grew when I learned of his legend origins and stories such as the 2003 CW and the labyrinth of evil. While I don’t despise the canon version its clear that he’s not nearly as developed or interesting enough in comparison to the old EU. I can understand to an extend that dave wanted to stick to whatever georges idea was idea was in making him a mustache twirling saturday morning cartoon villain but That doesn’t mean I agree with it or accept it. Grievous deserves more than he has been given I know this much.
At the very least I kinda find his fate funny in canon in that the cybernetics of his brain were integrated into A B1 battle droid model by a rebel and it became a nightmarish rampant murder machine!
People forget about the Crystal Crisis arc. It may have never aired, but I think it's safe to call it cannon. Effectively this shows how Grevious has developed as a character. He is not a coward, but a strategist. In this arc, he is brutal, precise, and is constantly a step ahead of the jedi, defeating Obi Wan in a duel within a couple of minutes.
I give Qui Gon Jinn an A because he the most wise & greatest Jedi due to his belief of the balance of both the light & dark sides of the force and that why he see in Anakin as he is the chosen one.
Seeing him getting killed in the Phantom Menace was upsetting as he would complete his training to become a force ghost, but that was cut short thanks to Darth Maul.
I will say that Qui Gon was the most greatest Jedi and he was the one to see the down side of the Jedi order as they are lose-sing the way of force (I’m talking about the events of before the Prequel Trilogy where he see them become more arrogant) in one of the comics in Age of the Republic.
Say what you want about the prequals, but you did remember the villain in each movie even if the movie wasn't great.
I think our general Grievous was the best example in more than one way. In the movie he was an interesting set piece that worked well for the movie and role he was in. In the 2d animated series he was a hunter, a killer, and a horror to face.
In legends he became expanded upon as the villain held up his name, his title, and his infamy.
In Disney cannon he was a blunder. A descent role for a punching bag for the heroes to beat... But a far cry from his previous two incarnations.
In some ways he does the best representation of star wars. A neat idea by George Lucas. A great character expanded upon by other writers and fans of the series. A blunder under Disney as they need someone to play a role they wanted but didn't look back too much to see what the character actually was.
yes the animated clone wars series did a lot right and it was pretty good... But general Grievous is the best example for how star wars has been treated.
I haven't watched Clone Wars, but I played the Lego game as a kid. From that I remember Grievous as the boss you fight multiple times and who runs away on one heart every goddamn time.
Grievous for me is still an A, regardless if the “legends” version is cooler. Although Grievous isn’t OP in TCW, he still defeat Kenobi more times than people think (eg in the malevolence Obi W clearly retreats after being battered) + he crushes Eeth Koth.
I feel you could sum up General Grievous' Legend's characterisation and his character assassination from that in canon in the same manner of how Palpatine talks about Darth Plagueis; Grievous starts off with incredibly awesome potential, with an interesting history and even his species, the Kaleesh, being a really cool addition to the Star Wars universe, and him being a nightmare for Jedi during the Clone Wars era makes him come off like a Terminator.
But, it wasn't what Lucas intended for him, and because of that, he went from an intimidating general who could take on 5 Jedi at once...to a craven idiot who can't even kill a bunch of Gungans, and has a constant coughing fit long before it made sense in the original Clone Wars show (where Mace Windu crushed his chest, damaging his lungs). That's the tragedy of General Grievous; he was made to be so powerful, the worst thing to happen to him was losing his power, which eventually of course he'd have to. Unfortunately, he lost it sooner than we wanted him to.
How do I keep missing Thor Skywalker's polls?
As weurd as it sounds I'd actually like to see a grievous Disney + series. In Legends he has a really rich backstory, but even if they went with a different approach, i think it still would have such an amazing potential. I mean seriously a warrior reduced to a few living organs, given a cybernetic body, becomes an unstoppable killing machine. I just think it's really hard to mess up such a backstory. He could be a really tragic and deep character. It's basically pure potential for a great show.
Of course a problem with it is that idk if many people would want to watch that, so Disney probably won't even think about it. However if they ever made it they'd have at least one viewer. :)
My all time favourite Star Wars character, I’d love to see him return in live action form!
I would've loved to see a version of Grievous with even more arms. Make him more spider-like, with limbs of various sizes all folded against his torso and hidden beneath his cape. We get hints here and there, but only finally see them when he and Obi-Wan duel on Utapau.
What about Thrawn?
Personally I find it quite funny whenever one of Grievous plans fails and the last thing you see is his escape pot with an exploding ship in the background. Granted he seems pretty weak in several episodes and tends to overestimate himself but towards the end of TCW he clearly grows more powerful, especially in his later fights with Obi-Wan.
I can think of a reason General Grievous would leave Shaak Ti alive. An injured person will slow down pursuit more than a corpse.
I feel like they could have introduced Grievous in Attack of the clones on Geonosis. Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme barely manage to stop the creatures that were sent in, so Dooku sends in Grievous to finish them off. That's when the Jedi arrive and help. Even then they barely manage to hold him back before needing to retreat with the clones.
All I want to say is.... today's The Clone Wars episode rocked! Star Wars at its best!
And yes, we catch a glimpse of Grievous.