Great video, To me it looks like the motor was running fine you were checking the temperature and that was fine then some of the magnets that are glued to the rotor delaminated and jammed the rotor with The stator which created the noise and heat and caused the failure.
I got a BBSHD bafang mid-drive 1000w on my Mario e-bike, and it works fine. There's no trouble what so ever but it is only 1600w peak, but I was impressed with your CYC motor and I can't wait for the next video my friend 😊👌🏾💯
I can understand your hesitation in putting this motor back on your bike or any other bike for that matter, but try not to worry to much as they have a warranty that covers it. Rubbish that you've had this issue and these things aren't cheap... so try push any concerns to one side and just carry on as your channel is very informative loads of fun and your honest and thats why i watch. Keep up the great work and i look forward to your one, take care 😎👍
informative vid, thanks! glad to see cyc got a speedy replacement. also, as far as the hub motor "braking" i have heard people say that cheaper motors have some resistance when not using them, or even just the weight of them making it seem that way. and while its certainly a beautiful bike, something like that wouldnt surprise me from engwe
I was thinking that a small front fairing design fitted to the down tube that funnels air down onto the motor would be a cheap way of just getting a bit more air cooling to it until a water cooled system can be built and added on by those who need it
As someone who just placed an order for a bike that will come with the cyc x1 pro gen 3, this is scary and not very reassuring. You're not the first to post videos of these dying either. Lots of new technology in the gen 3 so it's untested. Time will tell. Glad to see at least they have good customer and warranty service.
Your "easiest" gear is a lot harder than the easiest gear on most bikes, BUT it should not be a problem for the CYC motor. On my bike, 28T is around the middle of my cassette and it's the gear that the motor loves the most. Any higher and any lower is either too much torque, or too low RPM. 28T is a pretty good sweet spot for the CYC motor. I consistently push 3500W~ at 28T, and sometimes as high as 4000W with the same motor. I think you got an unlucky roll on your motor. As for people saying it's braking, do they realize the chain can't really move backwards because of the cassette? It's impossible for mid-drives to apply reverse resistance..
So remember when you first got your cyc motor. The plexiglass was cracked. It takes a serious hit to Crack high grade plexiglass. So your motor got dropped seriously hard. And if it was cold 🥶 the glue could have failed that held the magnets in. If I were you I would keep it. But you have to make sure your hub motor is not in regen mode. It definitely is the best bike motor out there. I have one with no issues.
Its getting to the point my own cyc is spending more time on the bench then on the bike. My first warrantied claim was after a month of use, took them almost two months to get me the replacement part. Im on my second issue atm with the gearbox (most likely) and dreading this wait. Im hoping reliability gets solved because it has a much better feel than the bbshd does. Personally i am running 52v and its the gen3 stealth model.
@@baconbuttties This type of failure cannot happen with a BBSHD because it is a IPM motor (Internal permanent magnet motor. The CYC motor is a SPM motor (Surface permanent magnet motor). On a SPM motor, the glue holding the magnets can fail when the motor gets hot, or if it wasn't glued properly. I have a Bafang BBSHD on my EEB Enduro Ebike frame running with an ASI BAC855 controller at 72V, 4500 - 5000W with no issues. I have replaced the nylon gear than can fail if the motor get to hot with a PEEK gear and have over 20 000 km on it with no problems. Even if the BBSHD comes stock with a 30A controller, I am pushing 80A, even 100A in the phase and this motor has never let me down. Check it in action here: www.youtube.com/@enduroebikeaddict7398/videos
I own STEALTH GEN1. After 6 months (2000km) controller ASI BAC855 died. After another 2000km torque sensor died. Of course it happened 3 months after warranty period.
Great video! I'm a bit concerned about CYC's reliability because I'm thinking of purchasing the new Photon motor this Fall. I'm looking forward to your future videos on this new motor.
Nice review. I trust your content and would like some advice. I am 1.94m tall 118kg. Which bike would you recommend ? PvyZ20, Engwe engine pro (750w) or the Engine X (250w) Am i correct that engine x is a 750w motor re- labelled as 250w for euro market ? Keep up the good work
I have only tested the Engine X which is a great bike and when unlocked seems to be 750 watts. The Engine Pro would be my recommendation as I have heard a lot of good things about it, although the Engine X is very similar and still a good purchase.
Seems its a design flaw/short coming with the motor.. The rotor in a mid drive spins at a much higher rotational speed, most of the more reliable mid drives on the market move toward imbedding the magnets into the rotor so its physically constrained in place by steel, instead of being glued on the exterior of the rotor. I hope to see this change on a future revision, Cyc does offer good warranty and replacement after sales assistance though. I believe it was the magnet coming unglued that caused friction when it crumbled up and jammed as someone else mentioned also below. Great vid mate I enjoy your presentation keep up the good work!
What happened is a magnet detached and made friction in the motor to slow it down. The magnet got broken when it jammed on the stator. When you continued to give it power, it over-heated, as any motor would when you slow it down under full power. It was nothing to do with your bike nor anything else. It was probably a mistake in the manufacturing. Hopefully, it was a random fault and not a systematic one that affects a large batch of motors. I've seen magnets detach form some direct drive hub-motors in the past, but It's not common these days, so the manufacturers must have improved their glue. Maybe CYC needs to have another think about the glue they're using. Time will tell if they got it right.
I think it must’ve been this since I hear older gens had this as a common issue.. and tho the coils look kind of unneat tht would just make it run a tiny bit warmer/be slightly less efficient than usual, as far as I’m aware. And like bacon said, pretty sure cyc have thermal management, cutoff etc
as to me it seems like it broke and couldnt spin properly and that caused the heat to build up but as to me, it might be able to handle 5kw but always recommended to run a motor at 70% max capacity, but it seems like it was too much ampareage going into the motor and caused everything to expand and then break the magnet but when you get into a higher speed, go into a higher gear(lower tooth)
Good vid, thanks for posting. Im also on ny second motor core too. I called it that your motor demagnetised when you posted your short, but an obliterated magnet i didnt expect with the gen 3. Definitely seems the magnet broke first which then caused the friction to then cause heat. Like you said its an easy fix, but the hassle isnt needed on a brand new motor. People saying about the motor not being able to handle 72v have totally git the wrong end of the stick and clearly have a misconception about higher voltage. The cyc should have 72v because its so small. Going 72v would keep the amp draw lower which in turn would keep the temperature lower. Amps create heat and not volts. Keep the vids coming bacon, good stuff
Love your videos, by the way. I'm not sure about your CYC motor, but you may be able to use the same setup if you're using a fairly high voltage motor. My motor is a BBSHD 3300 watts plus, so I can use a 1 to 1 ratio. I definitely don't have a problem with wheelies, but I can certainly spin the rear tire in any loose sand or gravel on the road, even at lower power settings.
I know breaking magnets was an issue with early generation but was supposed to be addressed with newer versions. I’m on my second season with my x1Pro and haven’t had any issues with the motor but I usually use pedal assist and use level 2or3 assist in “race” mode.
Your second motor? Because you bought a second one, or because the first one failed? If it failed, how long did it take to fail? How long have you had the replacement?
I like you videos. Your enthusiasm is contagious. Personally, I wouldn't dare put 5kw through that thing. The copper is lacking and those magnets are really thin. I have a brushless my1020 3kw motor, with more copper and much bigger magnets than the one you're showing and it gets hot at 5kw off-roading. I wouldn't trust the rating on that thing at all. 5kw at 72v is about 70 amps. That amperage sustained lonb enough on that motor will melt the phase wire coating, leading to internal shorts and heat damage to the fragile magnets that aren't fixed on securely enough. Massive rip off im my opinion. Usually phase wires are the weakest point when pushing the amps, but this company clearly have bigger problems with their magnets to worry about. For the price of that motor kit you can get a qs 138 motor (a motor that can definitely handle prolonged and demanding use) with a 20kw controller and still have change.
It looks like the magnet has cracked and delaminated and the heat was the extra friction caused by physical rubbing of the magnet inside the motor at high RPM. That would be my best guess. I don't know if you know the youtube channel Vortecks, but he brought a scooter hub motor which arrived with a crack in one of the magnets and had a nightmare with the suppliers. I'd go out on a whim and say this is a quality control problem more than anything else. Here's the video just in case anyone is interested. ruclips.net/video/86_HYaenaXE/видео.html
When you manufacture large quantities of anything, you will get lemons. Put the motor back on the bike, and enjoy the ride! ...guys are doing MUCH crazier things with X1 Gen 3s than using 28t sprockets, hahaha!!!!
Neodymium magnets do not have 'lumpy bits' 🧐. If the internals had been OK, some decent quality replacements may have worked? 🤔. Good job either way. 😎🖖
I didn't see "mechanically retained magnets", did you? From CYC's website: With mechanically retained magnets inside the CYC motors, they are designed to reach high RPMs without failing under heat stress. Not only are the magnets mechanically secured but CYC used high grade quality magnets that can withstand up to 180 degrees Celsius. Much more than the motor will reach during your ride allowing for ease of mind during any conditions.
Yes the website definitely says mechanically retained magnets by a sleeve on the rotor. I feel like I have been misled as the core looks the same as the Gen 2. I have emailed CYC about this and so far radio silence 😯 Not looking good, and will do an update on this if the do email me back.
Interesting, looking at the colour of the magnets in the motor, I’m no. Motor expert , but they seem to have a tinge of blue to them which usually indicates heat.
It seems like the oil in the motor degraded and couldn't sufficiently lubricate your motor and the engine overheated and the magnet cracked under the heat and lack of Sufficient Lubricant.
its a shame it didnt work out with the mid drive motor, as you said the rear motor is not braking, I think its a geared motor so it dosn't do braking I would like to see you try putting a hub motor on the front to make it dual drive, Ive seen pictures of the same style fat tyre 20"wheel as a front hub motor but cant find where to buy one, I have one of these m20's and love it, its like being a kid again on my BMX :)
Id say the magnet broke which caused the motor to lock up causing it to heat up with friction! the windings would have gotten hot trying to work under that circumstance I doubt there is anything wrong with your setup except for a dodgy motor. Had the motor worked properly you will get heat out of the motor as it is normal for it to heat up. My suggestion is to mount the motor back on the bike and go for a burn and after a decent run feel the motor housing and see how warm it gets. If you can easily hold your hand on it it will be fine. Only time to worry would be if it is to hot to touch and you burn your fingers. That would be bad for your fingers and motor! Your issue seems like a mechanical fault. I don't know about the motor but the controller should have temperature cutoff! Have a bit of faith and be thankful CYC looked after you! Just as a side note...Any motor where the magnets are glued to a face relies on just the glue for holding the magnets in place.one of the most common problems for magnets letting go. If you dismantle a Bafang BBSHD you will see the magnets are inserted into the laminations so no matter how hard you spin the motor the magnets cannot dislodge.
OK they sent me just the rotor. I told CYC I need the whole motor considering there are chunks of magnet all over the inside of the motor clearly shown in my pictures. I'm assuming that turning the motor into a magnet crusher caused damage to more than the rotor itself. Hopefully they'll get it right this time. Another week down....
CYC FINALLY came thru and sent me a repl motor! Thanks to them and particularly my supplier, Bicycle Motor Works, for staying on CYC to make it right. You can't fix a motor that vita-mixed magnets with a new rotor unless you test the stator first and follow motor rebuild protocol.
There are now several people running 7kw+ on their gen 2s. I run 3kw pretty much constantly in all gears with a heavy load up hills and its ran perfectly every day. Just keep the RPMs high. *Edit - Punctuation*
I don't know either? But that cute little motor, is the problem, check out the Cyclone motor from Taiwan, big ugly motor that can actually take high power, if you are handy you can improve motor mounts, if not there are aftermarket mounts you can buy,
your not the only 1 having problems pal ive just had my replacement x6 controller through about a week ago ive only done about 40 to 50 miles on it and died already not a good start considering ive got 3 bbshd motors and never had any problems with them even though 2 of the are running hv kit at 4000w 72v and there bullit proof ive had the motors a couple of years aswell not had the cyc motor that long and for the price im a bit dissapointed how quick the controller died mine is the new gen 3 motor aswell like you doesnt inspire much confidence 1 thing i would say is that they were quick to sort it out and send a new controller out though to be fair
Do you have an update on this? It would be nice to know whether the replacement has done better. I'd like to pick up the CYC X1 Pro Gen 3, but I'm deeply disturbed by the nature of this failure.
The friction of broken magnet would definitely fucked the motor...damn thin magnet though or was that was just a part of thicker magnet??? In the mean time, are you saying you are deliberately ghost pedaling the bike the whole time newer changing the gears??? No wonder the motor burnt out...
At least they should tell customers to use systems within some limits, to prevent damage. There is no message on their website which is clearing this up. CYC should think about adding a water or air cooling system. This might solve the problem.
This is embarrassing, the problem of breaking magnets started in the x1 pro gen 1 and with the pro gen 3 the same thing happens, CYC is only dedicated to manufacturing junk, I have already broken 2 and they sent me one under warranty but the same thing will happen to it same.
i thought the x6 controller which comes on gen3 was rated 52vmax? the new x12 controller 72v max will be released next year? on the gen4. maybe i miss understood. and i doubt the controller had anything to do with magnets anyway. thanks for all the good content
Possibly more amps and less voltage? but that shouldn’t have happened anyway i personally had many issues with stealth gen 1and feel like im a beta testerwho invested in a bad product. and yes im a little ashamed but i upgraded to the stealth gen3 no issues 52v beast its insane. i hope you get your ride back on the road i recon its going to be awesome @@baconbuttties
I think im going to encounter the same issue on my gen 2, i am yet to open it up but was having similar sounds today on my motor, very grindy and cuts out
hey up, my post isn't here, have you removed it?? as for the speedy replacement part, I would be wanting the whole assembly replacing as I would not be prepared to do their fault finding or motor dismantling for them, you bought a complete kit, I would want the complete kit replaced unless you had already started to strip the kit and let them know the problem, otherwise full kit matey 1k less than 50 miles, pretty poor result.
No, I never remove any posts but sometimes RUclips do. Did it have a link as RUclips remove posts with links sometimes. I didn't want to strip it down first as it might effect warranty.
@@baconbuttties No nothing link wise nor offensive unlike me most of the time lol, that's the Welsh side in me, lol, yes i get your drift what i meant was, CYC should have sent you the whole kit and not expect you, the end user/customer to dismantle it, what if you messed it up, would the warranty then be void!!! lol great video again. bbbt
Im not an expert but...the higher the gear ( more teeth ) would mean the motor has to spin faster creating more centrifugal force to get upto speed putting pressure on the magnets and if one of those magnets has a defect you get to make a video 👍
Yes you are correct that spinning faster will cause more centrifugal force but the motor is limited to a certain RPM. So you cannot go past the manufacturers safe limit, so as you say there must be a defect 👍
@@baconbuttties you can also look at it this way, My car can rev to 7000rpm but I wouldn't drive in 1st gear maxing the revs, I would use 5th gear at 2500rpm, I know electric motors can sustain higher rpms than a combustion engine but it's something to think about.
@@Old_Man_Pete it's not quite the same as a combustion engine. I was running a gear which would be equivalent to one to one which would be more like 3rd gear in a car.
I'd say it could have went either way. I've worked on a few motors before and seen a lot of problems and learned as I went. IMO I believe the magnet broke a bit and started to cause the friction issues and that's what caused the noise and the over heating. Another issue that could have caused it could have been worn out from your time with the motor on you're other bike and when it got warmed it it just finally gave way and broke off. Just from it getting hot and cold after rides can expand and contract metals and the magnets inside and it may have just gotten to hot that day and it finally decided to break off...but you'd never know since ya never seen inside before it happened to see if the magnets or other components were worn or broke already and well it doesn't matter to much anyway cause it'll need to be replaced either way. Glad you're safe and you got it all fixed and ready to go! Maybe to help with the issue try lowering the wattage output/lower voltage output to reduce the heating from the higher output to the motor....yeah you'd lose top speed but hey still be a very fun and great hill climber!
@@baconbuttties yeah that's true. I'd definitely say it just broke off then and it caused it to heat up and burn out. Also just wanted to say I love your videos. Just recently got into modding my ebike and found your channel and a few other good ones but I've been really enjoying yours a lot! Was looking at the m20 myself but ended up getting the Macfox X1 instead. Got a new motor coming for that as well as a 52v battery. Also been wanting to start making videos myself on my adventures going forward and showing off my bike n seeing where it takes me.
After criticizing cyc, I wanna give constructive suggestions too. I think the material at slots is not stable enough, it expands too much at higher temperatures/revelations and because of this magnets get loose. Can you tell me what kind of material slots are? What do you think? Another possibility would be problems at epoxy coated stator. Maybe the expanding epoxy causes the movement of the slots, if slots are somehow fitted into epoxy. This, I might call a material problem too. Cyc got to improve engineering quality of material. On the outside, the motor seems to be a good work (cnc machined a. s. o.) but normal customers cannot take a look inside material or assess the real quality of material, or the combination...
You were saying that you always have the bike in the lowest gear, that would mean that the motor would be running extremely fast (think of how a car engine would sound if you drove it in first gear all the time) this would mean that the centrifugal forces acting on the armature magnets would be very high thus causing the magnet to fly loose....you should try using the gears as you would normally use them, i.e. when under a light load you would then select a higher gear which would mean that the motor would be spinning a lot slower, therefore producing a far lower centrifugal force.
Your theory is sort of correct but the motor should be able to spin up to its maximum without losing magnets. 28 teeth isn't extremely large and I was not on full throttle, if I put it in a higher gear going uphill then the motor will be turning slower and create excess heat.
I run my CYC motor at max RPM at 3500W every day, for over 300 miles now with no issues. His motor was defective. Electric motors like higher RPM, you cannot compare them to internal combustion engines.
This should not happen as the magnets are supposed to be retained in a cage and there appears to be no cage. The following is straight from their website : CONTROLLER RELIABILITY AND PERFORMANCE X1 PRO gen 3 is now paired with the X-series controller which makes a day and night difference than the previous models. Both the PAS and throttle experience are refined. The following list of issues are addressed with the X-series controller. - High Initial torque - Peak power - Maximum reliability - No cut-out with full power in bumpy terrain - Instant throttle response - Refined torque sensor tuning - Simplified app - Fully programmable via display, so using the app is not mandatory - Plug-and-play ROTOR CORE & MOTOR With mechanically retained magnets inside the CYC motors, they are designed to reach high RPMs without failing under heat stress. Not only are the magnets mechanically secured but CYC used high grade quality magnet s that can withstand up to 180 degrees Celsius. Much more than the motor will reach during your ride allowing for ease of mind during any conditions. The X1 PRO motor is equipped with a SPM rotor to optimize the efficiency and torque with the small form factor. To prevent the magnet loosening, the magnets are mechanically retained by the sleeve in the rotor. They are named the Gen 3 rotor. This looks like they are shipping old Gen2 motors. CYC needs to respond to this. I just bought 2 of them and will be looking at them.
Hey thanks for that. So you think they have shipped me a GEN 2 motor. The motor that failed doesn't fit the description so I will have to look into this.
"To prevent the magnet loosening, the magnets are mechanically retained by the sleeve in the rotor." Good catch, I'm no master of the English language but what I imagine this sentence saying is not what I saw in the video when the motor was opened up. This is really messed up if true.
@@baconbuttties I agree you have to try it again and if it fails then clearly it’s unfit for purpose. Sounds like you did nothing wrong at all. I run a BBSHD with (BAC) 855 at 4000W and have no issues at all. I’ve used 28T at the back plenty of time with this setup and zero issues in over 18 months.
The burned part of the motor is due to mag broken off rubbed between the 2 parts that is not to be touching each other. High speed rotation will produce a lot of heat in a very very short of time as in 1-ten of second. How much a motor can take is by the size of the chopper wire thickness. the thicker the wire is the more watts & volts a motor can take. You can over volt a motor but not over watt a motor. You may need to cut back on the watts of your battery pack. The wrong type of glue used to hold the magnets or being cheap on the 2 part epoxies to hold in place the magnets.
@@baconbuttties There is calations for the thickness of wire used on wrapping in the motor. (in mills) That is what really deternmine the actual watts the motor can take. The second way of deternmine the watts of motor . How many wrappings on the one secation of the stator part of the motor. You can repair the motor it looks like in the video. But, that might be more work than you want to do. The magnets will need to be replaced more than likely. the high carban steel plates will have to be replaced too. If you can, put in stronger N-rating magnets to get more power out as in tork. I think tyou said in the video that you are using 8 guage wire from battery. That mighty be to high for the motor. Do your calculations on what is the highest current for that motor. The current on the wire is to high will cause the motor tear apart at seems so to speak. the higher the speed of the engine the higher the damage is to the engine. The connectors used on battery wires need to be slightly higher rating than watt, current, & voltage that is being deliver to the the controler. This what I would need to know before the new motor is installed on the bike. if you think you have all that is good. You prtoblly just got a badly built motor that happens sometime in the modern day factory.
The motor works by having magnets set with every other magnet with North facing up and every other magnet with south facing up. The electromagnets are then switched very quickly from north to south by reversing the electric current with the electromagnets slightly off from the fixed magnets which pulls the fixed magnet around. If one of the magnets snaps then it will try to stick to the nearest reversed magnet which will be one of the permanent magnets next too it but this will cause friction with the now incorrectly aligned electromagnets causing the heat. I dont think there is any reason the motor shouldnt work with that bike it is much more likely to be a manufacturing defect on that magnet but it wouldnt fill me with confidence in the quality control of those motors. Not sure why a thermal cutoff wouldnt work though.
you can use a hub motor like a alternator on a car as when it spins it will make power just look for hub motors as wind turbines but dont connect the batt to the hub motor or controller as could blow both of them up if going fast enough and also damage the hub motor as it will get hot esp going 50mph+. tho if you have a old hub motor make one in to a turbine to charge ur batts for free but you will need a way to lock it if the wind speed gets to hight as even the big ones explode 😇
@@baconbuttties with a 36v batt the power from the motor/ turbine you can also convert a washing machine to do this if you live next to a stream or brook but for a ebike charger it wont turn on unless its at 42v and a certern amps for the bms to accept a charge from the charger you could use a buck converter to up the voltage and limit the amps but under 42v a ebike charger will turn off or the bms will shut them both down
im more in clined for the magnet comeing loose and then adding friction making it hot as that center core should almost never get warm to start with as it has 0 power running through it the part that gets hot is the windings where the current is switching polarity's. that motor is probaly still functional if you replace the the core.
@@baconbuttties i had hub motor do same thing right out of factory it suxs but sometimes stuff gets slipped past QC. In my case they shipped new motor and i fixed the old one by gluing the magnet back down but it wasn't broken like yours though almost 3000k on the fixed one so far. My sister drives it back and forth to work almost every day
@@baconbuttties i was honestly surprised myself when it lasted the first 500km when i was using it then i got new bike and has since been with my sister and been running flawless. i got lucky that the magnet was intact and i took it apart once the sound started before it got worse. my first thought was a bearing tbh but found out was the magnet easy enough fix some jb weld and was good as new. now my first thing i do when i get new motor is take it apart and see if any magnets are loose. but iv only had 3 ebikes over past 10 years first one lasted almost 4 till the battery died 2nd well its still running altho battery is severly degraded and 3rd is running great and its almost 3 years old with 4000k but i put a 40ah battery on it and only ever drive maybe 10 ah of it at most only 2 times iv ridding it its full 65k range at my current weight of 260lbs it would deff do 80+ if i was lighter Shout out andy kirby's bike build .
In your own opinion is the the bike any good,ive always been you get what you pay for,and its a bit of a worry as the bike is Chinese. Also are there any dealers in SWales.
It was fine on your other bike. Even if the hub motor was spinning freely i would still Imagine they're still resistance Because of the magnets in it and it's also heavy. And the smaller fatter tires ect. Something caused it. I have just ordered a cyc x1 pro gen 3 and I searched the hole web and nothing has came up other then u about problems with it. So. It may have been that the cold and it sitting messed with the glue that holds the magnets or it was something to do with the new Install.
You say the wheel being heavy may have Caused it which would mean anyone heavier than me on a bike would cause it to fail if it's a weight issue. If you read some of the comments they have said that they have had delamination problems in the past on some units. The replacement motor part was around 250 dollars.
The guy on the high voltage channel recommends a 1:1 ratio to the front and rear gear. I think you have the 32T/53T on the front. I think the bike chain goes on the 32T so not much difference to the rear. What was the size of the rear gear on the first bike you tested this on.
Need a high gear last long time Use my a lot got 2000mils out of it most live with lot of hills by me Dont use in 25c keep to 18c Could be the heatwave mey call it to fail
I disagree. This was a faulty unit and nothing you did should have caused this to fail. 72v means it runs less amps than 52v would to achieve the same total wattage. 72v is more efficient and creates less heat. I’ve been running 72v for ages and it runs noticeably cooler to achieve same output 52v would. Maybe if you went up a 20% gradient and in a 12T trying to push 3500W then yes it would be user error but absolutely sounds like you got a lemon in this case. Put it back on the bike and go again as if it fails then CYC have a major issue here. Would be another great video to keep this going and come to an overall conclusion as there are still questions to be answered.
Do not believe in false claims from CYC. This motor is max 1000W. Everything above that will significantly increase chance of failure. I have CYC STEALTH and I capped max power to just 500W.
@@tanveerali2630 I have done 4000km on my cyc stealth and I had zero issues. However other user WHO was using his motor more agressivly broke IT just after 1500km. Cyc overestimate power but mechanically motor was not designed for such high power.
@@baconbuttties I don't think it was a common thing, but there were a few people that had the problem, but then again they could have really been pushing the motor. From what I have seen on your bike, there's nothing there, that the motor couldn't cope with.
Hi all! Fasterbikes added a comment a few weeks ago, criticizing reliability of Stealth and X1 pro. They stopped selling both. Yesterday, they deleted message. Very poor behaviour! Maybe CYC set them under pressure. Br
I think for mid-drive motors when they are in high gearing typically going along flat ground they do use around 250W or less but when you hit a hill and start climbing something like a more powerful Bosch motor would be over 700W towards 800W so using much more current. If you were in low gearing climbing a hill that would take the motor to its thermal limits but I guess the torque sensor has to see you really working hard to grant you maximum current. I don't know much about CYC motors except I won't be buying one that is for sure. I'm not keen on the complexity and accelerated drivetrain wear of mid-drive motors anyway and you have really put me off those CYC motors. I'm more a hub motor fan except for proper off-road use.
@@baconbuttties You are probably right but mid-drive issues seem to dominate reliability issues in forums despite being much higher cost and a much smaller percentage of ebikes sold. That motor is quite small compared to many hub motors and is driven at far higher rpm to give a high final torque figure. Specialized had to increase the warranty on their Brose motor ebikes as they were failing so much. I remember someone in a forum had gone through 4 motors under warranty and that wasn't the end of it. At that point there were already issues with his current motor. I think in the end he got his ebike completely refunded as not of merchantable quality but not sure if 4 was the final number. No doubt he was really using it though off-road but that is what it was sold as capable of being used for. That CYC motor was only going along the road and you don't look too heavy. What if you had been 120kg and going up the side of a hill pretty much. Do you even need all that complexity and additional drivetrain wear for road use. What if you had wanted to do a 100km ride and you were left 50km from home? A hub motor ebike will get you home typically its rare to have chain snaps on them and a geared hub motor freewheels without drag. I realise this motor is well above legal limits and therefore its different though, perhaps overheating is a much bigger issue. I suspect the controller was meant to monitor heat levels and drop power as the heat level rises which is common to mid-drive they restrict power a lot going up longer hills. Maybe your temperature sensor was faulty and giving the wrong readings and that protection didn't kick in. Maybe a revised motor would have two temperature sensors to prevent that possibility. Hub motors especially front hub motors are more in the wind and have more surface area for cooling and typically aren't driven as hard anyway.
@@bonzobanana1 yes the controller is supposed to monitor heat levels and has reduced power slightly on one of my earlier hill climb videos, which makes believe that the motor failed at normal operating temperature.
The added hub motor in the back add way more rotational mass and weight, It contributed for the motor demise plus your rear cassette/freewheel was way too small. You should have minimum 42T in the back Here is an explanation: ruclips.net/video/tW_swtyk7v0/видео.html
@@baconbutttiesyou have to calculate your gear reduction and compare with the motor specs. You may have to take into account the motor gearbox too. It will help you see if incorrect gear ratio was a contributor factor for the failure
This is where synrm comes handy... Over 150°c your magnets start losing magnetic force permanently, it takes more than heat to break though. But I maintain, the peak power claimed is technically impossible according to magnet and motor size. The copper windings did obviously overcooked because of too much current
I think you need to try riding a bike with a CYC motor on. I have riden ebikes with 9000 watts so know what power feels like. It does put out the power that is claimed.
Winston Churchill Quote Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.
Dear CYC, I have an ebike youtube channel. One of your motors, I just mounted, rather unexpectedly turned into a chain saw motor. If you dont send me a new motor right away, I will tell the world how crappy your motors are. (Joking) Sorry to be cynical but there are so many shill youtube channels with incestuous relationships with mfr's. You clearly aren't one of them. CYC's response: On it. We personally like to turn these sort of issues into a social experiment. Which came first, the heat or the magnet delaminating? Oh, we know because these motors have a history of magnets coming loose and btw, why are sending you just the motor and not the outboard gear drive because historically, the motors fail. BaconButties: Fiddily dee. Didn't know any of that. Hopefully you did a better job gluing on the new armature magnets. PS. this is manufacturing error. Unless you were pumping 100 amps through the motor, it should have held up to your average riding condition. The thermal cutoff didn't deploy because heat wasn't the root cause, lack of adhesion of the magnets was and when they let go, there was a high interference condition, abrasion and resulting intense heat. CYC knows all that FWIW. In 'theory' they were said to have resolved this issue. Perhaps this is old stock or they haven't fixed it with high reliablity. CYC doesn't have the greatest track record of high reliability unlike the Bafang BBSHD. Lastly, dude, mount the new motor on your bike. There is nothing wrong with your bike or its gearing. Hopefully the new motor CYC sent you has an updated armature.
I do hope my channel does come across as honest as I do have affiliations with a few companies but will hopefully always say if something is faulty or bad.
really disheartening seeing such an expensive and desireable motor fail so quickly.... gives me no hope of upgrading any time soon. Had my bbs02 for 3 years of every day commutes, severeal repairs over the years, first repair was 2 years in...
Great video,
To me it looks like the motor was running fine you were checking the temperature and that was fine then some of the magnets that are glued to the rotor delaminated and jammed the rotor with The stator which created the noise and heat and caused the failure.
Yes I wasn't pushing too hard either, so it's a shame it failed.
I got a BBSHD bafang mid-drive 1000w on my Mario e-bike, and it works fine. There's no trouble what so ever but it is only 1600w peak, but I was impressed with your CYC motor and I can't wait for the next video my friend 😊👌🏾💯
Thanks 👍
Stick a BAC855 on your BBSHD you won't look back mate 👌
I can understand your hesitation in putting this motor back on your bike or any other bike for that matter, but try not to worry to much as they have a warranty that covers it. Rubbish that you've had this issue and these things aren't cheap... so try push any concerns to one side and just carry on as your channel is very informative loads of fun and your honest and thats why i watch. Keep up the great work and i look forward to your one, take care 😎👍
Thanks 👍👍
doubt that they will keep warranting the same customer if the same thing happens again
informative vid, thanks! glad to see cyc got a speedy replacement. also, as far as the hub motor "braking" i have heard people say that cheaper motors have some resistance when not using them, or even just the weight of them making it seem that way. and while its certainly a beautiful bike, something like that wouldnt surprise me from engwe
I think it's the weight mostly as I can peddle it quite easy in the lowest gear. 👍👍
A super video. I have watched several videos with overheating on CYCs. They need to have a water jacket built in with a radiator.
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I was thinking that a small front fairing design fitted to the down tube that funnels air down onto the motor would be a cheap way of just getting a bit more air cooling to it until a water cooled system can be built and added on by those who need it
As someone who just placed an order for a bike that will come with the cyc x1 pro gen 3, this is scary and not very reassuring. You're not the first to post videos of these dying either. Lots of new technology in the gen 3 so it's untested. Time will tell. Glad to see at least they have good customer and warranty service.
Yes they were good on the warranty, but I sent an email on another query on Monday and its all gone a bit quiet.
Your "easiest" gear is a lot harder than the easiest gear on most bikes, BUT it should not be a problem for the CYC motor. On my bike, 28T is around the middle of my cassette and it's the gear that the motor loves the most. Any higher and any lower is either too much torque, or too low RPM. 28T is a pretty good sweet spot for the CYC motor.
I consistently push 3500W~ at 28T, and sometimes as high as 4000W with the same motor. I think you got an unlucky roll on your motor.
As for people saying it's braking, do they realize the chain can't really move backwards because of the cassette? It's impossible for mid-drives to apply reverse resistance..
Yes I just think I got unlucky and hopefully the new motor will be fine👍
I'm thinking about picking up CYC X1 Pro Gen 3, how long have you been running it? Is it still reliable? How many miles do you think you have logged?
So remember when you first got your cyc motor. The plexiglass was cracked. It takes a serious hit to Crack high grade plexiglass. So your motor got dropped seriously hard. And if it was cold 🥶 the glue could have failed that held the magnets in. If I were you I would keep it. But you have to make sure your hub motor is not in regen mode. It definitely is the best bike motor out there. I have one with no issues.
This hub doesn't have regen mode. Yes the plexi glass was cracked and it is quite thick, so it might of been part of the issue👍
Its getting to the point my own cyc is spending more time on the bench then on the bike. My first warrantied claim was after a month of use, took them almost two months to get me the replacement part. Im on my second issue atm with the gearbox (most likely) and dreading this wait. Im hoping reliability gets solved because it has a much better feel than the bbshd does. Personally i am running 52v and its the gen3 stealth model.
Yes I prefer the CYC to the BBSHD, but the Bafang gave me no issues.
@@baconbuttties This type of failure cannot happen with a BBSHD because it is a IPM motor (Internal permanent magnet motor.
The CYC motor is a SPM motor (Surface permanent magnet motor).
On a SPM motor, the glue holding the magnets can fail when the motor gets hot, or if it wasn't glued properly.
I have a Bafang BBSHD on my EEB Enduro Ebike frame running with an ASI BAC855 controller at 72V, 4500 - 5000W with no issues. I have replaced the nylon gear than can fail if the motor get to hot with a PEEK gear and have over 20 000 km on it with no problems.
Even if the BBSHD comes stock with a 30A controller, I am pushing 80A, even 100A in the phase and this motor has never let me down.
Check it in action here:
www.youtube.com/@enduroebikeaddict7398/videos
I own STEALTH GEN1. After 6 months (2000km) controller ASI BAC855 died.
After another 2000km torque sensor died. Of course it happened 3 months after warranty period.
That motor has a history of the magnets breaking loose
Yes been getting quite a few comments about it
First!!!! Not the CYC motor! Glad they sent a replacement, speedily!😃👍🏼
Yes they sent it super fast 👍
@@baconbuttties Because you are a youtuber. Simple. Average Joe is not treated with the same priority.
@@ataksnajpera I disagree, I have been treated like a average Joe with my last interactions.
Great video! I'm a bit concerned about CYC's reliability because I'm thinking of purchasing the new Photon motor this Fall. I'm looking forward to your future videos on this new motor.
Hopefully it is not common and I have to say they were super quick with a replacement.
Do not buy photon. After warranty period you won't find spare parts. For example if torque sensor fails then you will have to buy a new motor LOL.
Nice review.
I trust your content and would like some advice.
I am 1.94m tall 118kg. Which bike would you recommend ? PvyZ20, Engwe engine pro (750w) or the Engine X (250w)
Am i correct that engine x is a 750w motor re- labelled as 250w for euro market ?
Keep up the good work
I have only tested the Engine X which is a great bike and when unlocked seems to be 750 watts. The Engine Pro would be my recommendation as I have heard a lot of good things about it, although the Engine X is very similar and still a good purchase.
Seems its a design flaw/short coming with the motor..
The rotor in a mid drive spins at a much higher rotational speed, most of the more reliable mid drives on the market move toward imbedding the magnets into the rotor so its physically constrained in place by steel, instead of being glued on the exterior of the rotor.
I hope to see this change on a future revision, Cyc does offer good warranty and replacement after sales assistance though.
I believe it was the magnet coming unglued that caused friction when it crumbled up and jammed as someone else mentioned also below.
Great vid mate I enjoy your presentation keep up the good work!
Thanks 👍👍
What happened is a magnet detached and made friction in the motor to slow it down. The magnet got broken when it jammed on the stator. When you continued to give it power, it over-heated, as any motor would when you slow it down under full power. It was nothing to do with your bike nor anything else. It was probably a mistake in the manufacturing. Hopefully, it was a random fault and not a systematic one that affects a large batch of motors. I've seen magnets detach form some direct drive hub-motors in the past, but It's not common these days, so the manufacturers must have improved their glue. Maybe CYC needs to have another think about the glue they're using. Time will tell if they got it right.
Hopefully it is random 👍👍
Maybe, the magnet was cracked before the motor reached you. That would be the most likely scenario but I don't think cyc would want to admit to that.
It could be a possibility 👍
I think it must’ve been this since I hear older gens had this as a common issue.. and tho the coils look kind of unneat tht would just make it run a tiny bit warmer/be slightly less efficient than usual, as far as I’m aware. And like bacon said, pretty sure cyc have thermal management, cutoff etc
@@baconbutttiesp.s. are you the father of the ‘you’ve been gnomed’ meme? (Google it..) 😅 lol
as to me it seems like it broke and couldnt spin properly and that caused the heat to build up but as to me, it might be able to handle 5kw but always recommended to run a motor at 70% max capacity, but it seems like it was too much ampareage going into the motor and caused everything to expand and then break the magnet but when you get into a higher speed, go into a higher gear(lower tooth)
I did have it level 5 but didn't have the throttle on full at the time 👍
When you do another test run can you mention the watts of power the motor is producing on the gears.
It peaks at 3700 watts
good video 😁 I say put it on and give it another go you still have the hub motor either way so if it brakes again your still covered
I'm still unsure if I will 👍
Good vid, thanks for posting. Im also on ny second motor core too. I called it that your motor demagnetised when you posted your short, but an obliterated magnet i didnt expect with the gen 3. Definitely seems the magnet broke first which then caused the friction to then cause heat. Like you said its an easy fix, but the hassle isnt needed on a brand new motor. People saying about the motor not being able to handle 72v have totally git the wrong end of the stick and clearly have a misconception about higher voltage. The cyc should have 72v because its so small. Going 72v would keep the amp draw lower which in turn would keep the temperature lower. Amps create heat and not volts. Keep the vids coming bacon, good stuff
I'm hoping the replacement will last a bit longer 👍
@@baconbuttties I'm sure it will. I'm on 1500miles with my replacement now and it hasn't missed a beat.
@@INFINITELYINFORMATIVE that's good to know 👍
Love your videos, by the way. I'm not sure about your CYC motor, but you may be able to use the same setup if you're using a fairly high voltage motor. My motor is a BBSHD 3300 watts plus, so I can use a 1 to 1 ratio. I definitely don't have a problem with wheelies, but I can certainly spin the rear tire in any loose sand or gravel on the road, even at lower power settings.
When I had it on my previous bike it had a 50 tooth rear sprocket and the front end would come up. A one to one ratio is better 👍
The CYC X1 Gen 3 is rated up to 5000w
I know breaking magnets was an issue with early generation but was supposed to be addressed with newer versions. I’m on my second season with my x1Pro and haven’t had any issues with the motor but I usually use pedal assist and use level 2or3 assist in “race” mode.
Seems that I have been unlucky, hopefully it doesn't become common.
Your second motor? Because you bought a second one, or because the first one failed? If it failed, how long did it take to fail? How long have you had the replacement?
I like you videos. Your enthusiasm is contagious. Personally, I wouldn't dare put 5kw through that thing. The copper is lacking and those magnets are really thin. I have a brushless my1020 3kw motor, with more copper and much bigger magnets than the one you're showing and it gets hot at 5kw off-roading. I wouldn't trust the rating on that thing at all. 5kw at 72v is about 70 amps. That amperage sustained lonb enough on that motor will melt the phase wire coating, leading to internal shorts and heat damage to the fragile magnets that aren't fixed on securely enough.
Massive rip off im my opinion. Usually phase wires are the weakest point when pushing the amps, but this company clearly have bigger problems with their magnets to worry about.
For the price of that motor kit you can get a qs 138 motor (a motor that can definitely handle prolonged and demanding use) with a 20kw controller and still have change.
👍👍
It looks like the magnet has cracked and delaminated and the heat was the extra friction caused by physical rubbing of the magnet inside the motor at high RPM. That would be my best guess. I don't know if you know the youtube channel Vortecks, but he brought a scooter hub motor which arrived with a crack in one of the magnets and had a nightmare with the suppliers. I'd go out on a whim and say this is a quality control problem more than anything else. Here's the video just in case anyone is interested. ruclips.net/video/86_HYaenaXE/видео.html
Yes I do watch Vortecks, and thanks for the info. 👍👍
When you manufacture large quantities of anything, you will get lemons. Put the motor back on the bike, and enjoy the ride! ...guys are doing MUCH crazier things with X1 Gen 3s than using 28t sprockets, hahaha!!!!
Hope it is just a few lemons 👍
@@baconbuttties me too! Thanks for the videos!!!
@@griffincontracting 👍
Neodymium magnets do not have 'lumpy bits' 🧐. If the internals had been OK, some decent quality replacements may have worked? 🤔. Good job either way. 😎🖖
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I didn't see "mechanically retained magnets", did you? From CYC's website: With mechanically retained magnets inside the CYC motors, they are designed to reach high RPMs without failing under heat stress. Not only are the magnets mechanically secured but CYC used high grade quality magnets that can withstand up to 180 degrees Celsius. Much more than the motor will reach during your ride allowing for ease of mind during any conditions.
Yes the website definitely says mechanically retained magnets by a sleeve on the rotor. I feel like I have been misled as the core looks the same as the Gen 2. I have emailed CYC about this and so far radio silence 😯 Not looking good, and will do an update on this if the do email me back.
@@baconbuttties Thank you for the reply and for your content, which I always enjoy.
@@JohnDoe-gn5bc 👍
Interesting, looking at the colour of the magnets in the motor, I’m no. Motor expert , but they seem to have a tinge of blue to them which usually indicates heat.
Cracked then heated
Is the motor fitted with a thermistor, that should detect high temps
Yes it does detect temp.
It seems like the oil in the motor degraded and couldn't sufficiently lubricate your motor and the engine overheated and the magnet cracked under the heat and lack of Sufficient Lubricant.
👍👍
its a shame it didnt work out with the mid drive motor, as you said the rear motor is not braking, I think its a geared motor so it dosn't do braking
I would like to see you try putting a hub motor on the front to make it dual drive, Ive seen pictures of the same style fat tyre 20"wheel as a front hub motor but cant find where to buy one, I have one of these m20's and love it, its like being a kid again on my BMX :)
I have been looking for a front hub in the same style as the back but can only find traditional spoked wheels
Id say the magnet broke which caused the motor to lock up causing it to heat up with friction! the windings would have gotten hot trying to work under that circumstance
I doubt there is anything wrong with your setup except for a dodgy motor. Had the motor worked properly you will get heat out of the motor as it is normal for it to heat up.
My suggestion is to mount the motor back on the bike and go for a burn and after a decent run feel the motor housing and see how warm it gets. If you can easily hold your hand on it it will be fine. Only time to worry would be if it is to hot to touch and you burn your fingers. That would be bad for your fingers and motor!
Your issue seems like a mechanical fault. I don't know about the motor but the controller should have temperature cutoff!
Have a bit of faith and be thankful CYC looked after you!
Just as a side note...Any motor where the magnets are glued to a face relies on just the glue for holding the magnets in place.one of the most common problems for magnets letting go. If you dismantle a Bafang BBSHD you will see the magnets are inserted into the laminations so no matter how hard you spin the motor the magnets cannot dislodge.
I might put the motor on a more traditional bike first and put some miles on it to see if it will hold up.
Seems like the BBSHD is a reliable unit 👍
Getting ready to do the same repair on x1 pro gen 3 next week.
You had the same issue?
@@baconbuttties I haven't disassembled it yet but there are chunks visible thru the window. Cyc sent out the replacement fast.
OK they sent me just the rotor. I told CYC I need the whole motor considering there are chunks of magnet all over the inside of the motor clearly shown in my pictures. I'm assuming that turning the motor into a magnet crusher caused damage to more than the rotor itself.
Hopefully they'll get it right this time. Another week down....
@@BroosDager yes they sent me the whole motor, bit strange why they only sent part of it.
CYC FINALLY came thru and sent me a repl motor! Thanks to them and particularly my supplier, Bicycle Motor Works, for staying on CYC to make it right. You can't fix a motor that vita-mixed magnets with a new rotor unless you test the stator first and follow motor rebuild protocol.
There are now several people running 7kw+ on their gen 2s. I run 3kw pretty much constantly in all gears with a heavy load up hills and its ran perfectly every day. Just keep the RPMs high.
*Edit - Punctuation*
👍👍
I don't know either? But that cute little motor, is the problem, check out the Cyclone motor from Taiwan, big ugly motor that can actually take high power, if you are handy you can improve motor mounts, if not there are aftermarket mounts you can buy,
👍
I run a 1 to 1 ratio, 42 tooth front and rear on my heavy recumbent trike. I have an 72 volt HV kit, so I don't need any rear gears.
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your not the only 1 having problems pal ive just had my replacement x6 controller through about a week ago ive only done about 40 to 50 miles on it and died already not a good start considering ive got 3 bbshd motors and never had any problems with them even though 2 of the are running hv kit at 4000w 72v and there bullit proof ive had the motors a couple of years aswell not had the cyc motor that long and for the price im a bit dissapointed how quick the controller died mine is the new gen 3 motor aswell like you doesnt inspire much confidence 1 thing i would say is that they were quick to sort it out and send a new controller out though to be fair
Yes they are good at replacing through warranty but not good that you have had issues as well.
Do you have an update on this? It would be nice to know whether the replacement has done better. I'd like to pick up the CYC X1 Pro Gen 3, but I'm deeply disturbed by the nature of this failure.
I sold the replacement unit so have no update.
The friction of broken magnet would definitely fucked the motor...damn thin magnet though or was that was just a part of thicker magnet???
In the mean time, are you saying you are deliberately ghost pedaling the bike the whole time newer changing the gears??? No wonder the motor burnt out...
You can ghost peddle all day long on a Bafang motor... The motor is literally supplied with a throttle.
At least they should tell customers to use systems within some limits, to prevent damage. There is no message on their website which is clearing this up.
CYC should think about adding a water or air cooling system. This might solve the problem.
I don't think it overheated then failed, I think it failed then overheated.
This is embarrassing, the problem of breaking magnets started in the x1 pro gen 1 and with the pro gen 3 the same thing happens, CYC is only dedicated to manufacturing junk, I have already broken 2 and they sent me one under warranty but the same thing will happen to it same.
A lot of money to pay for something that breaks so easily.
I think you should put it back on and test it to destruction again if indeed at all possible. Hey Hey Whey Hey!!
Test it to destruction 😄 👍👍
Looks like the motor is not battle hardened. That's an issue with first gen motors from the esk8 community. Unacceptable for the price.
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melted the magnet loose and then catastrophic failure. I predict if you run it the same route same speed. Meltdown will happen again
Did a longer route than that before and it didn't fail 👍
strange one that, had mine for 3 years never had anything like that happen, seems gen 3 is the same as gen 2 motor and gearbox .
What battery voltage was you using?
@@baconbuttties most the time 14s 58v, but did run it on 72v but ended up killing my drive train after a while, so went back to 58v
@@SIMONC256I hope my replacement lasts as long as yours 👍
i thought the x6 controller which comes on gen3 was rated 52vmax? the new x12 controller 72v max will be released next year? on the gen4. maybe i miss understood. and i doubt the controller had anything to do with magnets anyway. thanks for all the good content
X6 can do 72v as well, just less amps than the X12
Possibly more amps and less voltage? but that shouldn’t have happened anyway i personally had many issues with stealth gen 1and feel like im a beta testerwho invested in a bad product. and yes im a little ashamed but i upgraded to the stealth gen3 no issues 52v beast its insane. i hope you get your ride back on the road i recon its going to be awesome
@@baconbuttties
@@robertsmark2650 👍
keep up the great work. you are helping cyc to become even better.@@baconbuttties
@@robertsmark2650 👍
I think im going to encounter the same issue on my gen 2, i am yet to open it up but was having similar sounds today on my motor, very grindy and cuts out
Oh no... That's bad.
hey up, my post isn't here, have you removed it?? as for the speedy replacement part, I would be wanting the whole assembly replacing as I would not be prepared to do their fault finding or motor dismantling for them, you bought a complete kit, I would want the complete kit replaced unless you had already started to strip the kit and let them know the problem, otherwise full kit matey 1k less than 50 miles, pretty poor result.
No, I never remove any posts but sometimes RUclips do.
Did it have a link as RUclips remove posts with links sometimes. I didn't want to strip it down first as it might effect warranty.
@@baconbuttties No nothing link wise nor offensive unlike me most of the time lol, that's the Welsh side in me, lol, yes i get your drift what i meant was, CYC should have sent you the whole kit and not expect you, the end user/customer to dismantle it, what if you messed it up, would the warranty then be void!!! lol great video again. bbbt
@@howardridge1153 I expect I would most likely have to send the old one back first before a complete replacement 👍👍
@@baconbuttties i would expect them to pay for that, not fit for purpose, less than 50 miles for 1000 quid lol
Im not an expert but...the higher the gear ( more teeth ) would mean the motor has to spin faster creating more centrifugal force to get upto speed putting pressure on the magnets and if one of those magnets has a defect you get to make a video 👍
Yes you are correct that spinning faster will cause more centrifugal force but the motor is limited to a certain RPM. So you cannot go past the manufacturers safe limit, so as you say there must be a defect 👍
@@baconbuttties you can also look at it this way,
My car can rev to 7000rpm but I wouldn't drive in 1st gear maxing the revs, I would use 5th gear at 2500rpm, I know electric motors can sustain higher rpms than a combustion engine but it's something to think about.
Edit: btw I'm a new sub as I've just gone down the ebike route, medical reasons have forced me to stop driving 😭
@@Old_Man_Pete hope you enjoy ebiking👍
@@Old_Man_Pete it's not quite the same as a combustion engine. I was running a gear which would be equivalent to one to one which would be more like 3rd gear in a car.
I'd say it could have went either way. I've worked on a few motors before and seen a lot of problems and learned as I went.
IMO I believe the magnet broke a bit and started to cause the friction issues and that's what caused the noise and the over heating.
Another issue that could have caused it could have been worn out from your time with the motor on you're other bike and when it got warmed it it just finally gave way and broke off. Just from it getting hot and cold after rides can expand and contract metals and the magnets inside and it may have just gotten to hot that day and it finally decided to break off...but you'd never know since ya never seen inside before it happened to see if the magnets or other components were worn or broke already and well it doesn't matter to much anyway cause it'll need to be replaced either way.
Glad you're safe and you got it all fixed and ready to go! Maybe to help with the issue try lowering the wattage output/lower voltage output to reduce the heating from the higher output to the motor....yeah you'd lose top speed but hey still be a very fun and great hill climber!
The funny thing is it never got hot at all before it failed
@@baconbuttties yeah that's true. I'd definitely say it just broke off then and it caused it to heat up and burn out.
Also just wanted to say I love your videos. Just recently got into modding my ebike and found your channel and a few other good ones but I've been really enjoying yours a lot! Was looking at the m20 myself but ended up getting the Macfox X1 instead. Got a new motor coming for that as well as a 52v battery. Also been wanting to start making videos myself on my adventures going forward and showing off my bike n seeing where it takes me.
@@DeltaYT99 be great if you did make some of your own videos as it's something to look back on 👍
After criticizing cyc, I wanna give constructive suggestions too.
I think the material at slots is not stable enough, it expands too much at higher temperatures/revelations and because of this magnets get loose. Can you tell me what kind of material slots are? What do you think?
Another possibility would be problems at epoxy coated stator. Maybe the expanding epoxy causes the movement of the slots, if slots are somehow fitted into epoxy. This, I might call a material problem too.
Cyc got to improve engineering quality of material.
On the outside, the motor seems to be a good work (cnc machined a. s. o.) but normal customers cannot take a look inside material or assess the real quality of material, or the combination...
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You were saying that you always have the bike in the lowest gear, that would mean that the motor would be running extremely fast (think of how a car engine would sound if you drove it in first gear all the time) this would mean that the centrifugal forces acting on the armature magnets would be very high thus causing the magnet to fly loose....you should try using the gears as you would normally use them, i.e. when under a light load you would then select a higher gear which would mean that the motor would be spinning a lot slower, therefore producing a far lower centrifugal force.
Your theory is sort of correct but the motor should be able to spin up to its maximum without losing
magnets. 28 teeth isn't extremely large and I was not on full throttle, if I put it in a higher gear going uphill then the motor will be turning slower and create excess heat.
I run my CYC motor at max RPM at 3500W every day, for over 300 miles now with no issues. His motor was defective. Electric motors like higher RPM, you cannot compare them to internal combustion engines.
@@ee-vn3qj 👍
This should not happen as the magnets are supposed to be retained in a cage and there appears to be no cage. The following is straight from their website :
CONTROLLER RELIABILITY AND PERFORMANCE
X1 PRO gen 3 is now paired with the X-series controller which makes a day and night difference than the previous models. Both the PAS and throttle experience are refined. The following list of issues are addressed with the X-series controller.
- High Initial torque
- Peak power
- Maximum reliability
- No cut-out with full power in bumpy terrain
- Instant throttle response
- Refined torque sensor tuning
- Simplified app
- Fully programmable via display, so using the app is not mandatory
- Plug-and-play
ROTOR CORE & MOTOR
With mechanically retained magnets inside the CYC motors, they are designed to reach high RPMs without failing under heat stress.
Not only are the magnets mechanically secured but CYC used high grade quality magnet s that can withstand up to 180 degrees Celsius. Much more than the motor will reach during your ride allowing for ease of mind during any conditions.
The X1 PRO motor is equipped with a SPM rotor to optimize the efficiency and torque with the small form factor. To prevent the magnet loosening, the magnets are mechanically retained by the sleeve in the rotor. They are named the Gen 3 rotor.
This looks like they are shipping old Gen2 motors. CYC needs to respond to this. I just bought 2 of them and will be looking at them.
Hey thanks for that. So you think they have shipped me a GEN 2 motor. The motor that failed doesn't fit the description so I will have to look into this.
I have emailed them to ask, so will wait for reply.
"To prevent the magnet loosening, the magnets are mechanically retained by the sleeve in the rotor."
Good catch, I'm no master of the English language but what I imagine this sentence saying is not what I saw in the video when the motor was opened up. This is really messed up if true.
@@ashegam I have emailed CYC but it has gone very quiet with no reply.
What's going to stop the new motor from having the same fate? 😂😂😂
Hopefully it doesn't 😯
@@baconbuttties I'm thinking the high RPM's broke the magnets initially then the heat was caused by the broken magnet spinning inside.
@@Mike_Davidson could be 👍👍
I think you should put the new assembly back on the bike 🚴 and try it again.
I would like too, but not sure.
@@baconbuttties I agree you have to try it again and if it fails then clearly it’s unfit for purpose. Sounds like you did nothing wrong at all. I run a BBSHD with (BAC) 855 at 4000W and have no issues at all. I’ve used 28T at the back plenty of time with this setup and zero issues in over 18 months.
@@jamo9000 👍
The burned part of the motor is due to mag broken off rubbed between the 2 parts that is not to be touching each other.
High speed rotation will produce a lot of heat in a very very short of time as in 1-ten of second.
How much a motor can take is by the size of the chopper wire thickness. the thicker the wire is the more watts & volts a motor can take.
You can over volt a motor but not over watt a motor.
You may need to cut back on the watts of your battery pack.
The wrong type of glue used to hold the magnets or being cheap on the 2 part epoxies to hold in place the magnets.
It's supposed to be able to take more watts than I can give it. Max watts going to motor is 3700 but they state 5000 watts as a maximum.
@@baconbuttties There is calations for the thickness of wire used on wrapping in the motor. (in mills)
That is what really deternmine the actual watts the motor can take.
The second way of deternmine the watts of motor .
How many wrappings on the one secation of the stator part of the motor.
You can repair the motor it looks like in the video.
But, that might be more work than you want to do.
The magnets will need to be replaced more than likely.
the high carban steel plates will have to be replaced too.
If you can, put in stronger N-rating magnets to get more power out as in tork.
I think tyou said in the video that you are using 8 guage wire from battery.
That mighty be to high for the motor.
Do your calculations on what is the highest current for that motor.
The current on the wire is to high will cause the motor tear apart at seems so to speak.
the higher the speed of the engine the higher the damage is to the engine.
The connectors used on battery wires need to be slightly higher rating than watt, current, & voltage that is being deliver to the the controler.
This what I would need to know before the new motor is installed on the bike.
if you think you have all that is good.
You prtoblly just got a badly built motor that happens sometime in the modern day factory.
Are you positive the 2 batterys are in parallel not series? Just checking
The 2 batteries are not connected to eachother, they are separate 👍
Better go with gearsless hub motor.
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Front hub motor i would like to see
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The motor works by having magnets set with every other magnet with North facing up and every other magnet with south facing up. The electromagnets are then switched very quickly from north to south by reversing the electric current with the electromagnets slightly off from the fixed magnets which pulls the fixed magnet around. If one of the magnets snaps then it will try to stick to the nearest reversed magnet which will be one of the permanent magnets next too it but this will cause friction with the now incorrectly aligned electromagnets causing the heat. I dont think there is any reason the motor shouldnt work with that bike it is much more likely to be a manufacturing defect on that magnet but it wouldnt fill me with confidence in the quality control of those motors. Not sure why a thermal cutoff wouldnt work though.
Previous versions used to suffer with loose magnets and it looks like CYC have sent me a GEN 2 because Gen 3 is supposed to have a sleeve on the core.
you can use a hub motor like a alternator on a car as when it spins it will make power just look for hub motors as wind turbines but dont connect the batt to the hub motor or controller as could blow both of them up if going fast enough and also damage the hub motor as it will get hot esp going 50mph+.
tho if you have a old hub motor make one in to a turbine to charge ur batts for free but you will need a way to lock it if the wind speed gets to hight as even the big ones explode 😇
You probably could have regen when going down a hill, not sure if you need a certain type of hub for that.
@@baconbuttties with a 36v batt the power from the motor/ turbine you can also convert a washing machine to do this if you live next to a stream or brook but for a ebike charger it wont turn on unless its at 42v and a certern amps for the bms to accept a charge from the charger you could use a buck converter to up the voltage and limit the amps but under 42v a ebike charger will turn off or the bms will shut them both down
@@soundwave6769 👍👍
im more in clined for the magnet comeing loose and then adding friction making it hot as that center core should almost never get warm to start with as it has 0 power running through it the part that gets hot is the windings where the current is switching polarity's. that motor is probaly still functional if you replace the the core.
Hopefully the new one goes further than this one with no issues 👍
@@baconbuttties i had hub motor do same thing right out of factory it suxs but sometimes stuff gets slipped past QC. In my case they shipped new motor and i fixed the old one by gluing the magnet back down but it wasn't broken like yours though almost 3000k on the fixed one so far. My sister drives it back and forth to work almost every day
@@jaylord55 that's good that It has done all those miles after being fixed 👍
@@baconbuttties i was honestly surprised myself when it lasted the first 500km when i was using it then i got new bike and has since been with my sister and been running flawless. i got lucky that the magnet was intact and i took it apart once the sound started before it got worse. my first thought was a bearing tbh but found out was the magnet easy enough fix some jb weld and was good as new. now my first thing i do when i get new motor is take it apart and see if any magnets are loose. but iv only had 3 ebikes over past 10 years first one lasted almost 4 till the battery died 2nd well its still running altho battery is severly degraded and 3rd is running great and its almost 3 years old with 4000k but i put a 40ah battery on it and only ever drive maybe 10 ah of it at most only 2 times iv ridding it its full 65k range at my current weight of 260lbs it would deff do 80+ if i was lighter Shout out andy kirby's bike build .
@@jaylord55 👍👍
In your own opinion is the the bike any good,ive always been you get what you pay for,and its a bit of a worry as the bike is Chinese.
Also are there any dealers in SWales.
The M20 bike is very good for the money..The CYC motor is not good at all.
It was fine on your other bike. Even if the hub motor was spinning freely i would still Imagine they're still resistance Because of the magnets in it and it's also heavy. And the smaller fatter tires ect. Something caused it. I have just ordered a cyc x1 pro gen 3 and I searched the hole web and nothing has came up other then u about problems with it. So. It may have been that the cold and it sitting messed with the glue that holds the magnets or it was something to do with the new Install.
How much for the motor?
You say the wheel being heavy may have Caused it which would mean anyone heavier than me on a bike would cause it to fail if it's a weight issue. If you read some of the comments they have said that they have had delamination problems in the past on some units. The replacement motor part was around 250 dollars.
Liked the very informative video. Good stuff 👏 👍. Thank you!
Thank 👍👍
oh the website said it. it must be true...
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The guy on the high voltage channel recommends a 1:1 ratio to the front and rear gear. I think you have the 32T/53T on the front. I think the bike chain goes on the 32T so not much difference to the rear. What was the size of the rear gear on the first bike you tested this on.
50T was the largest on the other bike
Why not clean the motor and have someone rebuild it and experiment from there ?
Broken motor overheated too much so cannot be rebuilt
If you don't keep it how much u want for it.
Will let you know if I decide to keep it or not 👍
Need a high gear last long time
Use my a lot got 2000mils out of it most live with lot of hills by me
Dont use in 25c keep to 18c
Could be the heatwave mey call it to fail
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@@baconbuttties ❤😮😊
I disagree. This was a faulty unit and nothing you did should have caused this to fail. 72v means it runs less amps than 52v would to achieve the same total wattage. 72v is more efficient and creates less heat. I’ve been running 72v for ages and it runs noticeably cooler to achieve same output 52v would.
Maybe if you went up a 20% gradient and in a 12T trying to push 3500W then yes it would be user error but absolutely sounds like you got a lemon in this case.
Put it back on the bike and go again as if it fails then CYC have a major issue here.
Would be another great video to keep this going and come to an overall conclusion as there are still questions to be answered.
@@jamo9000 its a small motor
Not a motorcycle
Do not believe in false claims from CYC. This motor is max 1000W. Everything above that will significantly increase chance of failure. I have CYC STEALTH and I capped max power to just 500W.
How do you come to the conclusion that it's max power is 1000 watts
@@baconbutttiesignorance is bliss,.
@@tanveerali2630 I have done 4000km on my cyc stealth and I had zero issues. However other user WHO was using his motor more agressivly broke IT just after 1500km. Cyc overestimate power but mechanically motor was not designed for such high power.
maybe the temp sensor itself was mangled by the magnet
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Can i have that broken motor for my project,i could rewind it
@@iroshadilki3753 It
went in the bin a long time ago.
They have had problems in the past with delamination issues
Was it a common issue or just a few?
@@baconbuttties I don't think it was a common thing, but there were a few people that had the problem, but then again they could have really been pushing the motor.
From what I have seen on your bike, there's nothing there, that the motor couldn't cope with.
@@acelectricalsecurity good to know it's not a common problem then👍
@@baconbuttties and I think it was mainly on their first generation of motors, I guess you are always going to get an odd one that goes faulty
@@acelectricalsecurity yes I expect there will always be a certain amount of failures.
Thats a large cog
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Hi all! Fasterbikes added a comment a few weeks ago, criticizing reliability of Stealth and X1 pro. They stopped selling both. Yesterday, they deleted message. Very poor behaviour! Maybe CYC set them under pressure. Br
Do you mean older models?
They still have the same e-motor issue's with gen3 systems, as it was at gen1. Didn't you recognize it? I'm wondering..
I think for mid-drive motors when they are in high gearing typically going along flat ground they do use around 250W or less but when you hit a hill and start climbing something like a more powerful Bosch motor would be over 700W towards 800W so using much more current. If you were in low gearing climbing a hill that would take the motor to its thermal limits but I guess the torque sensor has to see you really working hard to grant you maximum current. I don't know much about CYC motors except I won't be buying one that is for sure. I'm not keen on the complexity and accelerated drivetrain wear of mid-drive motors anyway and you have really put me off those CYC motors. I'm more a hub motor fan except for proper off-road use.
I hope it was just a one off and not a common problem as the motors are so powerful and pack a punch.
@@baconbuttties You are probably right but mid-drive issues seem to dominate reliability issues in forums despite being much higher cost and a much smaller percentage of ebikes sold. That motor is quite small compared to many hub motors and is driven at far higher rpm to give a high final torque figure. Specialized had to increase the warranty on their Brose motor ebikes as they were failing so much. I remember someone in a forum had gone through 4 motors under warranty and that wasn't the end of it. At that point there were already issues with his current motor. I think in the end he got his ebike completely refunded as not of merchantable quality but not sure if 4 was the final number. No doubt he was really using it though off-road but that is what it was sold as capable of being used for. That CYC motor was only going along the road and you don't look too heavy. What if you had been 120kg and going up the side of a hill pretty much. Do you even need all that complexity and additional drivetrain wear for road use. What if you had wanted to do a 100km ride and you were left 50km from home? A hub motor ebike will get you home typically its rare to have chain snaps on them and a geared hub motor freewheels without drag. I realise this motor is well above legal limits and therefore its different though, perhaps overheating is a much bigger issue. I suspect the controller was meant to monitor heat levels and drop power as the heat level rises which is common to mid-drive they restrict power a lot going up longer hills. Maybe your temperature sensor was faulty and giving the wrong readings and that protection didn't kick in. Maybe a revised motor would have two temperature sensors to prevent that possibility.
Hub motors especially front hub motors are more in the wind and have more surface area for cooling and typically aren't driven as hard anyway.
@@bonzobanana1 yes the controller is supposed to monitor heat levels and has reduced power slightly on one of my earlier hill climb videos, which makes believe that the motor failed at normal operating temperature.
The added hub motor in the back add way more rotational mass and weight, It contributed for the motor demise plus your rear cassette/freewheel was way too small. You should have minimum 42T in the back
Here is an explanation: ruclips.net/video/tW_swtyk7v0/видео.html
That's the same as a light person or heavy person sitting on the bike
@@baconbutttiesyou have to calculate your gear reduction and compare with the motor specs. You may have to take into account the motor gearbox too.
It will help you see if incorrect gear ratio was a contributor factor for the failure
@@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes I have had a few people saying they have had a similar problem with this motor.
@@baconbuttties I heard that too. I personally would rather have the bbshd with HV kit or lighting rods than CYC
This is where synrm comes handy...
Over 150°c your magnets start losing magnetic force permanently, it takes more than heat to break though. But I maintain, the peak power claimed is technically impossible according to magnet and motor size. The copper windings did obviously overcooked because of too much current
I think you need to try riding a bike with a CYC motor on. I have riden ebikes with 9000 watts so know what power feels like. It does put out the power that is claimed.
@@baconbuttties right on...
Winston Churchill Quote
Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.
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Magnet failure
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I would say gearbox.
Gearbox part was okay
I was wrong lol
@@richie8214 👍
my CYC stealth gen 3 has failed and CYC are not replying to my emails 😪
That's not good...
@@baconbuttties
How did you get a response?
Did you buy direct from cyc originally?
@@TimChump yes bought direct from CYC. They do take at least 3 days or so to reply
I don't understand. Was it not supposed to be on warranty and free replacement. @@baconbuttties
@@stephanemartin4733 I did get a replacement
stop making absurd comments, cyc is rubbish
???
Cooked
It is 👍👍
Dear CYC,
I have an ebike youtube channel. One of your motors, I just mounted, rather unexpectedly turned into a chain saw motor. If you dont send me a new motor right away, I will tell the world how crappy your motors are. (Joking) Sorry to be cynical but there are so many shill youtube channels with incestuous relationships with mfr's. You clearly aren't one of them.
CYC's response:
On it. We personally like to turn these sort of issues into a social experiment. Which came first, the heat or the magnet delaminating? Oh, we know because these motors have a history of magnets coming loose and btw, why are sending you just the motor and not the outboard gear drive because historically, the motors fail.
BaconButties:
Fiddily dee. Didn't know any of that. Hopefully you did a better job gluing on the new armature magnets.
PS. this is manufacturing error. Unless you were pumping 100 amps through the motor, it should have held up to your average riding condition. The thermal cutoff didn't deploy because heat wasn't the root cause, lack of adhesion of the magnets was and when they let go, there was a high interference condition, abrasion and resulting intense heat. CYC knows all that FWIW. In 'theory' they were said to have resolved this issue. Perhaps this is old stock or they haven't fixed it with high reliablity. CYC doesn't have the greatest track record of high reliability unlike the Bafang BBSHD. Lastly, dude, mount the new motor on your bike. There is nothing wrong with your bike or its gearing. Hopefully the new motor CYC sent you has an updated armature.
I do hope my channel does come across as honest as I do have affiliations with a few companies but will hopefully always say if something is faulty or bad.
really disheartening seeing such an expensive and desireable motor fail so quickly.... gives me no hope of upgrading any time soon. Had my bbs02 for 3 years of every day commutes, severeal repairs over the years, first repair was 2 years in...
I hope it was just a one off, and CYC were super quick to rectify it.