Thank you for your very informative explanation..I have been shooting the 300 Weatherby for over 45 years & your explanation is exactly in line with what I have experienced, after the first firing you are sizing from the shoulder not the belt,... & a min bump is all thats needed to produce accurate ammo...Sizing cases back to factory specs given that they can grow 10 thou & more on the first firing is a quick way to over work the brass for no gain ...
I think my Speer #11 manual agrees with you "The 300 H & H and 375 H & H are probably the only bottle-necked magnums in current use that really need the case belt for head-spacing because of their shallow shoulder. Others have ample shoulder for headspacing and the belt on these modern numbers is really superfluous". As an example, 300 H & H Magnum has a shoulder of 7.5 degrees, while .300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag have a shoulder of 25 degrees.
@@oatmealsavage82 I have not experienced any case bulge with my 300 H & H...11 resizings before I retired the lot of brass (.002" shoulder bump with full length reszing, anneal after 2 resizings)...I wonder why no case bulge which is supposed to be a problem with belted magnum cartridges? I case bulge more common in the cartridges with steeper shoulder slopes like 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag?
@@RetrieverTrainingAlone could be a function of the actual size of the brass above the belt and the chamber dimension. I have had the bulge on 300wm and 7mmrm in the past, but has never caused me any grief.
Thanks for this video -- I am starting to have some issues with my 7mm Rem Mag brass that has been fired multiple times. Some of my rounds will not chamber.
First, thank. you very much for your time consuming study. I appreciate all of the work that you put into this. I have a question. I had been neck sizing my .300 WM, but based on your observation that the headspace is coming from somewhere on the barrel of the case rather than the shoulder, should all cases be full length resized or does neck sizing take care of the headspace issue?
Excellent! I've been using a 300 H & H up here in Alaska for moose and bears. I reload Barnes TTSX 180gr with IMR4831. What are your thoughts on nickle-plated brass for reloading hunting rounds?
These old bones have always believed that it is the belt that controls headspace , the barrel is machined to take the belt with very little clearance between the bolt face and the head of the cartridge , I have a Mauser 66 in 300 weatherby mag and once fired Norma cases ( never could aford factory ammo ) I only neck size down to the start of the shoulder and have fired these cases many times without any trouble , my vote is for headspace at the belt , I enjoyed your video I can see you spent a lot of time on the subject
The cases were originally designed for H&H calibers in the 20s to headspace on the belt because they had such sloping bodies and shoulders, similar to the 22 Hornet; those old cases can headspace off the shoulder but not enough to minimize case stretch or provide any real support or benefit. When Winchester "wildcatted" the case into their belted magnums, they gave them modern shoulder angles similar to other cartridges that headspace from the shoulder; and while they can headspace only on the belt, they benefit from a shoulder headspace. And as discovered in the video, most dies won't allow enough setback to not headspace on the shoulder anyway.
I'm in the first firing headspaces on the belt camp. After that they headspace on the shoulder. Most belts are .15 and most chambers the belt is cut .20 that's .005 clearance. Ok now if your size your brass fit to your chamber any dimension that is less than .005 (I use .001-.002) the cartridge in effect headspaced off the shoulder. ???? Does that make sense or am I full of it. Anyway thanks for taking the time, Nice video
You are correct. I never seen a belted mag case that did blow out a crazy amount compared to say a 308 or whatever else. My 300 win blew out about .010 shoulder base. And went .012 in leangth with a comparator. It seems to be a very common thing witch is why 300 win for example isn't the best choice for long target unless you hand load.
How about demonstrating the actual resizing in the press and show how much bump back you used and how the die was adjusted? This is a "radical" departure from most You Tube advice, so can you show acrual cases being resized. Thanks.
Patrick Dineen I started the dies where they are setting the brass back .002” (my normal die setting) then turned it in progressively until the handle on the press cams over. I can try to do a video to show the process if you like.
Sanch Arino Normally that is what i do, but the purpose of this whole exercise was to see if i could set the brass back far enough to headspace off the belt which I could not.
Doesnt every gunsmith show you that a belted magnum is headspaced from the belt to the case head and isnt this why belted magnums are considered dangerous game cartridges and non belted cartridges that headspace off the shoulder are not and classified as delta L problem cartridges?
Callum McMurray All I can tell you is the math doesnt lie and even the factory ammo i have wont headspace on the belt. I believe the original cartridges 375h&h ect do headspace off the belt at least for the first firing.
Its based off of hours of firing, measuring ect. Nowhere did I claim this to be gospel. In other news Peterson has released magnum brass that is .012" longer to the shoulder to eliminate case stretch on initial firing....
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Thank you for your very informative explanation..I have been shooting the 300 Weatherby for over 45 years & your explanation is exactly in line with what I have experienced, after the first firing you are sizing from the shoulder not the belt,... & a min bump is all thats needed to produce accurate ammo...Sizing cases back to factory specs given that they can grow 10 thou & more on the first firing is a quick way to over work the brass for no gain ...
Thank You! It is critical info for reloaders.
I think my Speer #11 manual agrees with you "The 300 H & H and 375 H & H are probably the only bottle-necked magnums in current use that really need the case belt for head-spacing because of their shallow shoulder. Others have ample shoulder for headspacing and the belt on these modern numbers is really superfluous". As an example, 300 H & H Magnum has a shoulder of 7.5 degrees, while .300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag have a shoulder of 25 degrees.
Interesting you are the first person to ever point out that this info is in a regularly available reloading manual hahaha who would have known
@@oatmealsavage82 I have not experienced any case bulge with my 300 H & H...11 resizings before I retired the lot of brass (.002" shoulder bump with full length reszing, anneal after 2 resizings)...I wonder why no case bulge which is supposed to be a problem with belted magnum cartridges? I case bulge more common in the cartridges with steeper shoulder slopes like 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag?
@@RetrieverTrainingAlone could be a function of the actual size of the brass above the belt and the chamber dimension. I have had the bulge on 300wm and 7mmrm in the past, but has never caused me any grief.
Thanks for this video -- I am starting to have some issues with my 7mm Rem Mag brass that has been fired multiple times. Some of my rounds will not chamber.
First, thank. you very much for your time consuming study. I appreciate all of the work that you put into this.
I have a question. I had been neck sizing my .300 WM, but based on your observation that the headspace is coming from somewhere on the barrel of the case rather than the shoulder, should all cases be full length resized or does neck sizing take care of the headspace issue?
I prefer to minimum full length size all my cases (set back.001-.002") to maintain consistent head space. Neck sizing wont change your head space.
Excellent! I've been using a 300 H & H up here in Alaska for moose and bears. I reload Barnes TTSX 180gr with IMR4831. What are your thoughts on nickle-plated brass for reloading hunting rounds?
I've used it didn't really find much wrong with it. I prefer brass but if nickel is what you can get I wouldn't worry about it.
These old bones have always believed that it is the belt that controls headspace , the barrel is machined to take the belt with very little clearance between the bolt face and the head of the cartridge , I have a Mauser 66 in 300 weatherby mag and once fired Norma cases ( never could aford factory ammo ) I only neck size down to the start of the shoulder and have fired these cases many times without any trouble , my vote is for headspace at the belt , I enjoyed your video I can see you spent a lot of time on the subject
The cases were originally designed for H&H calibers in the 20s to headspace on the belt because they had such sloping bodies and shoulders, similar to the 22 Hornet; those old cases can headspace off the shoulder but not enough to minimize case stretch or provide any real support or benefit. When Winchester "wildcatted" the case into their belted magnums, they gave them modern shoulder angles similar to other cartridges that headspace from the shoulder; and while they can headspace only on the belt, they benefit from a shoulder headspace. And as discovered in the video, most dies won't allow enough setback to not headspace on the shoulder anyway.
I'm in the first firing headspaces on the belt camp. After that they headspace on the shoulder. Most belts are .15 and most chambers the belt is cut .20 that's .005 clearance. Ok now if your size your brass fit to your chamber any dimension that is less than .005 (I use .001-.002) the cartridge in effect headspaced off the shoulder. ???? Does that make sense or am I full of it. Anyway thanks for taking the time, Nice video
You are correct. I never seen a belted mag case that did blow out a crazy amount compared to say a 308 or whatever else.
My 300 win blew out about .010 shoulder base. And went .012 in leangth with a comparator.
It seems to be a very common thing witch is why 300 win for example isn't the best choice for long target unless you hand load.
So idk what my headspace of the belt is but my should is 19 thousands. Wouldn’t that cause issues?
How about demonstrating the actual resizing in the press and show how much bump back you used and how the die was adjusted? This is a "radical" departure from most You Tube advice, so can you show acrual cases being resized. Thanks.
Patrick Dineen I started the dies where they are setting the brass back .002” (my normal die setting) then turned it in progressively until the handle on the press cams over. I can try to do a video to show the process if you like.
I see the .032 shoulder dimension in your notes. Why not just bump it back .001 vs F.L. resize?
Sanch Arino Normally that is what i do, but the purpose of this whole exercise was to see if i could set the brass back far enough to headspace off the belt which I could not.
Ahhh i get it. was a little confused
Doesnt every gunsmith show you that a belted magnum is headspaced from the belt to the case head and isnt this why belted magnums are considered dangerous game cartridges and non belted cartridges that headspace off the shoulder are not and classified as delta L problem cartridges?
Callum McMurray All I can tell you is the math doesnt lie and even the factory ammo i have wont headspace on the belt. I believe the original cartridges 375h&h ect do headspace off the belt at least for the first firing.
KABER ARMS Thanks for the video and the reply I found this very interesting
This video is dangerous because its based off of a forum from random conversation, not factual documentation
Its based off of hours of firing, measuring ect. Nowhere did I claim this to be gospel. In other news Peterson has released magnum brass that is .012" longer to the shoulder to eliminate case stretch on initial firing....
Bullshit. My factory 7 mag shoulder stretches forward .035 after one firing. Then they headspace off the shoulder
Savage 110 btw. And thats not a typo Thirty five thou of clearance in the shoulder using factory rounds
No wonder a newbie can get confused here... good to know! Thanks