Introduction to Xingyi-Bagua Palm: Bagua with a Xingyi influence!
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2020
- This video introduces Xingyi-Bagua Palm the style created by Zhang Zhaodong in the 1920s in Tianjin, China. Topics include
Who was Zhang Zhaodong (0:45)
What is Xingyi-Bagua Palm and what are its key characteristics? (5:42)
Common misconceptions about Xingyi-Bagua (8:20)
Demonstration (10:45)
Key takeaways from his story. (12:05)
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I am very late to this episode, but very happy to find it. I practice a form of Bagua that comes down from Liou Wan Fu from Tianjin. It seems that Master Zhang Zhao Dong had very big postures, based on these old photos. This is the same way that i was taught. Maybe we can call it a "large frame"art. But your movements seem to be a smaller or medium size. Is this the way you were taught, or is it just the way things work for you?
And thank you so much for posting this information. You have some of the best traditional Chinese Martial Arts videos on RUclips. A true scholar 👍👍
Hello, thank you for your comments to my channel. Regarding Zhang's posture: his posture was much bigger in his earlier year and changed after his 50s. I learned both but prefer his later practice.
You are one of the last true masters in this world I believe.. I have trained in Bagua for 5 months and there is nothing in this world that can describe the energy you build within. Much respect.
No, please. There are many people promoting the art in different ways...
Thank you so much for your wonderful and informative videos... they are fantastic. Deepest respect, Master
You are very welcome and thank you too.
My lineage is via Zhao Dao Xin who learned from Wang Xiang Zhai and Zhang Zhao Dong. It's interesting to see what he might have learned since our bagua is pretty different than this.
Great to know.
Es la primera vez que encuentro una enseñanza de tan considerable calidad en artes marciales. Le quedo muy agradecido a éste maestro. Para la mentalidad Occidental la enseñanza por conceptos es una vía clara de aprendizaje rápido y seguro. Maestro, le presento mis respetos por su actividad en favor de la enseñanza, de sus discípulos y de la humanidad; le deseo larga vida.
I used Google Translate to understand your writing:) thank you for your comments. I hope I will have more and more useful videos posted in the future.
I just started watching your channel. Such great content! It’s very clear, descriptive and allows people to critically think about their own practices in Xing Yi, Ba Gua or Taiji practices! Thank you! I will continue to subscribe and watch your videos. Hopefully, I will be able to teach and open my own school one day and contribute to the Traditional Martial Arts Community! 🙏
Awesome, thank you!
谢谢师傅！视频质量好，消息很详细，很有用
Thanks for your comments. Especially it is interesting that you type in Chinese:)
Thank you very much for all your hard work! 🙏
So nice of you.
Thanks you for posting this, I am glad that you clarified that photo often its seen in the context of Xing Yi but it never made much sense to me as its often labelled as San Ti practice but to me the size and the expression of the posture was confusing as it did not obey Xing Yi precepts as I was taught them, thank you again for sharing.
You are very welcome. It is our duty to clarify this kind of mistake so that people in the community will not be misled. Thanks.
Great video! Personally have only heard of but not seen this style. However, I think the movement looks very similar to Jiang-style (姜容樵) Bagua which also has xingyi elements (Jiang being a student of Zhang Zhaodong). Appreciate it!
Jiang promoted this style a lot. Jiang created his own routine based on Zhang's teaching. He did not stay with Zhang for long time... Thanks.
@@HaiYangChannel thanks for the historical perspective! I personally like the xingyi-influenced bagua as well! Just for reference, this is the version i was taught ruclips.net/video/FR5GNi4N4Ls/видео.html
Nice. It seems that is it taught by sha guozheng.
Hi Master Yang, salute from Houston. Thank you for sharing and teaching great gong-fu on RUclips.
My pleasure! And thank you for your comments.
Thank you sir.
You’re very welcome.
Very interesting, very competent and clear. Thank you.
From George Xu i heard that his Bagua is from Liu Wan Fu. I read that Liu Wan Fu's teacher, Cheng Yun Qing, was Zhang Zhao Dong's student and brother in law. I image the style was each time, from teacher to teacher, "personalized".
Yes, I agree with you regarding personalization in practice. Also, it is true that practice will change or even diluted during this process, unfortunately. So, keep it pure and respect the tradition of each line is important, in my opinion. This is the principle that I always follow and respect in practicing and teaching. Thank you for your comments.
Thanks. So you learned the Style of Zhang from your family members "pure" without much changes?
Would be a treasure !
And you teach it ?
I learned different style not only from my family members but also a lot of other teachers. Keep it pure is a personal choice, means that I do not mix them up among each styles. Thanks.
Also, when I teach my students, I always remind them to keep the specific style’s characteristics as what it is without modification. This is why it is an attitude, or at least I take this issue seriously. Thanks.
Almost all styles of Bagua today are descended from 3 branches: The Yin Style: the Cheng Style: and the Liang style. The Founder of the Yin Style, Yin Fu, was Dong Haichuan's first Student while Dong was employed at the Palace by the Prince of Su. Yin Fu probably studied with Dong Haichuan for a longer period than any other of Haichuan's students. As Master Yang mentioned earlier, since Haichuan instructed his students based on the styles that they had learnt previously, Yin Fu's Bagua was based on Shaolin Louhan. The Yin Style's signature Palm is the Ox Tongue Palm, or Piercing palm, and the Yin Style is referred to by many as Hard Palm or Cold palm. The Liang style as the youngest of the 3 branches is a synthesis of both the Yin Style and the Cheng Style, and the Liang style uses the hard Piercing Palm when doing Palm changes( the Liang style however uses a rounder, softer Palm when doing 8 Palms Circle walking). So I want to point out, that Zhang Zhaodong's use of obvious force, or hard force, when doing his Xingi-Bagua was only innovative in the context of the soft Cheng style, seeing that both the Yin and Liang styles make use of hard force from the very beginning by the use of the Ox Tongue Palm, probably the most important technique in both of these Bagua Branches. I would like to point out, however, that emphasizing hard force, while good for fighting, has a major disadvantage: Soft force, rather than Hard force, is "best for building good health." I think Master Yang mentioned this in an earlier Video, when you said that when comparing Tai Chi, Bagua and Xingi, Bagua is the Style best for building Health--Moreover, the Cheng style Bagua should be best style of Bagua for health because Palm changes are most often done softly.
Master Wang Shangzhi is a well known Master of the Cold or Hard Palm Yin style bagua( good for Fighting but not so good for Health):
ruclips.net/video/OUi5BhhjFvI/видео.html
Next Master Shi Wenzhou( don't know who he is, or where he teaches) demonstrates the Cheng Style with powerful Fa Jing:
ruclips.net/video/vmuYMxDtQaY/видео.html
Thank you for the input and the links. I like the first one a lot.
.
I think this is the only information about xingyi-bagua on the internet!!! (at least that i ccan find) hahaha thanks
This style was very popular in Tianjin, and even today, there are some people practice it over there. But people in Tianjin normally keep low profile, maybe... Thanks.
.
@@HaiYangChannel ohhh thant makes sense.
I really love this series of videos. I’ve been practicing for 10 years and remember seeing your Videos around the time I started. I was really impressed. With your Xing Yi Fajin. I might like to start some distance learning with you soon.
Thanks for your comments. 10 years passed fast! I am in the process of creating an e learning program and hopefully it will be done after the COVId19 issue settles down, so that I can start to shoot the video part.
Hai Yang cool. Thank you!
thank you !!!
You're welcome!
Thank you Master for your videos, it’s a pity that I am far away and I don’t have the opportunity to learn from you.
Hello, I understand. I will post more materials in the future for you as a reference. Thanks.
Thanks 🙏
Welcome
Thank you very much for sharing this. It was a very nice surprise to see this video and I learned a lot. Is there a clear compendium to this style, like the bagua's 64 palms?
Hello Laurent, thank you for your comments. There is not 64 palms in this system but has all other practices such as single movements, 8 big-palms, and some weapons.
@@HaiYangChannel Great! Thank you.
讲的真细，圣手书生刘琦兰，闪电手张赵东。
必须要系。否则就是误人子弟啊。
As someone who practices Sun style Bagua I found this very interesting as it also includes many elements of Xingyi and Cheng Bagua.
Who did you learn Sun bagua from? 👍🏼
Sun learned from Cheng, and Sun taught both Beijing and Tianjin. And his son taught mostly in Tianjin. So no wonder there are xingyi elements here. thanks.
@@PaulArena75 my current teacher is Tim Cartmell.
I heard about him but never talked in person. He is in the USA.
@@HaiYangChannel yes, near loss Angeles in California. I travel to learn from him when I am able.
Nice I copied it to the best of my ability I will send you a clip
I practice Jiang Rong Qiao but I have created a set called “missing pieces “ it is simply palms from different systems first and second palm of Cheng style, 1,2,,3 palm from dragon , 1,2,3 from yin I will make this the 9 palace of the form because it is so lively. thank you
LEt's see.
ruclips.net/video/lzBA-L7ZhWU/видео.html
Here it is the palm you demonstrate is at the end so you may want to fast forward to the end to see how I was able to get some of it
My problem was organizing the turn around
To start the palm on the right side
But I think a few more exposures to your demonstration will sort that out.
楊大師 集明師與名師 於一身
您过奖！谢谢。
Thank you for the video. Did you choose this combination of movements to demonstrate Zhang's influence on wider bagua? I'm quite interested in Xingyi-Bagua having trained in Kenny Gong lineage. I've been trying to research that link but our local seniors tell me fairy stories about Yue Fei in post World War II China.
Hello, I just randomly chose some movements and made the small video. It seems that some body mentioned Keeny Gong somewhere before...can't recall now. Yue Fei was centuries earlier than the WW2...Thank you for your input.
I used to put a lot of fa Jin in my bagua many years ago but was criticized for it looking like karate. Perhaps I will explore this idea however even my hsing i looks rather soft so I don’t know where the fa Jin will come from
Maybe they did not get it.
Xie xie Lao shi! I really enjoy your videos! Regarding master zhang disciples, do you know/consider master wang shu jing (famous in Taiwán) to be one of them ? May be the last? Thanks a lot !
Hello, I think that both of them were from Tianjin originally, and moved to Taiwan around 1049. When I was in Tianjin, I never heard about them at all. To be very straightforward, I have never paid much attention to them . One of my good friends who knew both of them personally in Taiwan told me some stories about them, but it is not the right place to share those stories in the public since it has nothing to do with my teaching and practice. But, thank you for your comments.
Another great discussion on this topic, thank you. Do you know much of Zhao Daoxin, top student of Zhang Zhaodong? Any stories from your family?
Thank you for your comments. Sure I know his story. My grandfather practiced with the same teacher. I met Zhao in person. Some articles in his name were not written by him at all, or at least not based on his original words.
@@HaiYangChannel wow, that's awesome. How old was he when you met him? Did you get to see or feel any of his art at all? I have also been told that and think I know the certain texts you are referring to! My teacher is a disciple of one of his later students. I consider myself very fortunate 🙏
@@heartandmindmartialarts8570 He was sick at that time already， around his late 70s. But he still worked very well. I do not know who your teacher is, may interesting to see his video somewhere.
@@HaiYangChannel that is still a great honor, I hear that even after his stroke he still moved like a dragon when practicing! My teachers name is Paul Rogers. The majority of his videos are private for students but he has a few on here. I'm sure he would be pleased to know of your line and connection to the old masters in Tianjin.
@@heartandmindmartialarts8570 Zhao was great. No idea about your teacher, sorry. I am not that active in this community.
Thanks again shifu. Out of curiosity, there are some videos on youtube labeled as xingyibaguazhang such as this one ruclips.net/video/t3F5vW1c6LU/видео.html is it the same style or are there multiple xingyi-baguazhang hybrid systems?
I do not want to make any comments to this one...thank you for your link but sorry for my answer.
I would like to add another question. Si you learned this style "pure" from your family members and you teach it ? Would be a treasure
Hello, I would like to answer you question. I learned my practice with my grandfather first, then my uncle, and then many other teachers as well. Also, I have traveled to many regions in China in order to improve my knowledge before/after I moved to Canada. It is a never-ending practice. Thanks,
Hello, how do you explain that no bagua praticionners today, are fighting in MMA championship ? What's the reason ? Thanks
Well, that is a good question. In my opinion, people practice different style for different purposes. In China, Sanda is very popular for competition. But the techniques and practices of San Da are based on many traditional practice. Thanks,
@@HaiYangChannel Thank you for answering
Why so raised elbows??
what are you talking about? I am not following your question. Sorry.