When Goku and Vegeta fused in GT I always liked that their Super Saiyan 4 form sparkled opposed to being covered in lightning. I felt that it really gave a refined feeling to their fusion if that makes sense.
And before Gogeta shows up, it has a normal feeling to it (sort of). Unlike with other SS’s where you can tell they are supposed to be fantastical and extremely powerful. That may be because it more closely resembles their base forms (unlike Gogeta).
wasnt really feeling the sparkle... should be left for attacks like stardust. a fire and electricity aura would have been perfect tho. especially when ss4 gogeta was born. now that is what a saiyan "god" looks like and what beerus waiting for!! 😁👌
Gotta agree, SSJ4 is just greatest. It’s also implied to be the true mastered form of the original Super Saiyan from the legend that Vegeta talked about in Z. The original SSJ appeared to be in a Golden Ape, but was unable to control the insane power and died as a result. However Goku controls Golden Ape and boom. 👀
ya thats something that always blew my mind back when i realized it. ss4 was the og super saiyan of legend. true super saiyan. legendary super saiyan... then before tori made broly canon. lol. but i hope broly could get a form like this or something close someday. he already has golden eyes in that ape power absorbed form. so it makes sense he could tap into ss4 or something....someday i hope!! gonna be wild seeing him with greenish gold fur tho. 😆😁 but i'll take it.
@@ssppeeaarr Super Broly isn’t THE Legendary Super Saiyan though, is he? I remember that they said he COULD be, but they never outright said it like with Z Broly Edit: looking at it, Xenoverse and some Promos DO still call his form Legendary Super Saiyan. Though, remember: Z Broly DOES get Super Saiyan 4. So if they wanted to bring it back in a canonical sense, they already have the precedent
@@borby4584 lol. ya man what else would dbs broly be? he proved this with easily keeping up with goku and vegeta. forcing them to fusion to defeat him. his power was legendary indeed. then in the movie king vegeta freaking out over his power. realizing he aint the average saiyan. i think one of the saiyan scientist doctor ppl say he could be the saiyan the legends spoke of or something like that. when broly was crying and his power level rose up... but ya dbs version broly is still legendary. the last form itself broly takes going super buff n crazy vs ssb gogeta is a direct throwback to dbz broly. and ya i know ss4 broly exist in the games n db heroes. it looks awesome. i think there was even a broly with god ki on some japan only dbz festival thing. was called 4d dragonball or someshit. but ya if toriyama wants to he can make ss4 canon easily. especially with a saiyan of brolys calibur!!
Not only is SS4 the greatest looking transformation but it had the greatest effect on Gokus performance. He didn’t hesitate to finish off his opponents. And as a bonus, we got the Kamehameha x10 and Dragons Fist!
Ss4 is the only transformation that is actually treated like the ultimate power. Besides a dub line thats there for jokes its always treated as the absolute pinnacle of strength unlike something like ultra instinct where immediately in the next arc they make it seem like its just the next step and not the final destination. And the explanation on why ss4 is so strong is well thought out and makes sense. The saiyan body is combining all its transformation dna together in order to forge a new body that utilizes absolutely all of its dormant power inside.
@@bitterthenu7278 thats a sad thing that happens when u got a series like dragonball. transformation fatigue... i do hope they let beast gohan shine a bit and explore its full power before the usual next level acesion that is expected. lets not do the same mistake like with ssgod and ssb now toriyama and toei!! 😟
@ssppeeaarr ss3 was already stupid and just used for a quick boost in manga sales since another manga just had a new transformation around the same time. I love the design and like the built in weakness but it ruined the story completely. Maybe if they made it exclusive to fusions then it could work but ss2 was the perfect final transformation. It was the evolution of super saiyan finally done correctly after several failed attempts. Then Goku is like lol level 3
What I actually loved about SSJ4 is that it was a logical transition from the legendary super saiyan concept from Z all the way back to the Namek saga. The vision that they see of the legendary super saiyan is essentially a golden Uuzaru. This makes sense because the Saiyans have the Uuzaru form, which makes them increase in power factor roughly similarly to the super saiyan power factor. Obviously, if you could combine the two, the power factor would be immense, and it would fulfill the legendary characteristic of the super saiyan form. It also hearkens back to the "monkey king" roots of the original Dragon Ball. Of course, the real power of SSJ4 is that it represents the warrior gaining mastery over his own primal rage as a golden great ape, thus transforming him into the SSJ4 form. It's much the same way that DBGT took the dragon balls themselves to their logical progression, with the black star balls and the feedback concept from negative intent when wishing upon the balls corrupting them. Similarly, the villains are the dragons behind the corrupted balls themselves. DBGT also did a great job of developing the characters in a natural way - Vegeta is a much more grown up and human reflection of Vegeta's experiences and personality at the end of Z, in contrast to how he is depicted in Super - basically a comic caricature of his most basic traits in Z. Compare SSJ4 to the various kinds of hair color and aura changes in Super....no contest, really. In Super, it's just....god ki. Whatever that means.
It’s honestly amazing how Super Saiyan 4 is still used in the franchise to this day. I mean it even got a enhanced variant in Heroes. You’d think it would be forgotten but no
i never got why the fur turns to red tho?? aside from the real life explanation they didnt like how it look'd with gold fur. yet we had ozaruu in gold. o toei. i would have liked that with the black hair. its an iconic symbolism of super saiyan. the red fur is more badass. but still. lol legacy and lore matters. anyhow i hope tori does make this form somewhat canon in his own interpretation someday. perhaps tweak the design to his liking and colors as well.
@@sammightyburgersdoublextre8278 oh ya i knew that. but i didnt think monkey king had red fur. its usually just a humanoid ape looking guy with brown fur...
Ssj 4 will always be GOATED. Its a saiyan fully awakening and mastering their lineage. The design is beyond iconic and looks mythological, divine even. It also came with a noticeable personality shift for Goku which tracks with the idea of him embracing his saiyan blood. Its debut and justification are also peak; Goku taking control of Oozaru and channeling his love and determination to condense the great ape into a new form of Super Saiyan, absolute genius.
If you think about it, SS4 is the ultimate transformation on paper. Ancient Saiyan heritage (super Saiyan god), Heightened Instincts (ultra instinct), Higher Confidence (ultra ego), Calm Demeanor / precise control of immense power (Ss Blue), A Beastly appearance and power (Gohan Beast) with massive bulk (orange piccolo) with hidden energy reserves (whatever Trunks did) ? Literally contains aspects of EVERY new transformation shown in Super so far.
Definitely, here's a description of every major transformation up to Blue Super Saiyan: A transformation assumed by extraordinarily powerful fighters with Saiyan DNA, The most noticeable physical change is that the Saiyan's hair becomes golden blonde in color and seems to stand on end, giving it a spiky appearance while the pupils temporarily change to a greenish-blue, muscle tone becomes more defined and is accompanied by a slight increase in overall muscle mass, in contrast their Ki output is drastically increased giving them fifty times more energy than their normal Power and the users aura becomes much more violent and turns to a bright yellow color. Super Saiyan 2: This transformation is very similar to the first transformation in appearance and use, the hair of the original transformation becomes longer, more rigid it stands up even more and while some muscle increase is present all physical abilities such as speed and strength are proportionally increased and the aura becomes so violently charged with energy that it spontaneously generates electricity, this form is twice as strong as the original Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 3: The third form of the Super Saiyan transformation and the successor to Super Saiyan 2 unlike the first two forms it is drastically different in appearance, eyebrow hair vanishes completely and the eyes and forehead become much more prominent while the Golden hair becomes large and draws back becoming rigid it grows down the user's back until it is just below their waist this form uses all of the potential in a Saiyans blood at once pushing them far beyond their normal limits and while an increase in overall ability is certainly gained the real power of this form comes from 100% utilization of Ki but even this transformation has its limits as it consumes far more energy than the others, which can leave a Saiyan feeling extremely fatigued this can be minimized somewhat after mastering the form but it will still leave the user feeling drained as a result the transformation needs to be used sparingly, this form is eight times as strong as the original. Saiyan God: When in this form the Saiyan's general appearance remains unchanged with the exception of a few slight differences the skin tone becomes darker; the hair loses any stray tufts, lifts up slightly and gains the user's Super Saiyan bangs, with the hair becoming red; the Saiyan's eyes grow, becoming sharper and the irises also become red; the overall body structure appears to become younger, thinner, and somewhat taller; the aura becomes more explosive and flame-like in appearance, The form also allows the user to sense and possess Divine ki which can only normally be sensed and used by deities. This form is stronger than Super Saiyan 3. Super Saiyan God: A Saiyan God that has turned into a Super Saiyan further increasing their abilities as a result this form exceedingly surpasses its predecessor, and all of the other Saiyan forms. This form is fairly similar to the original Super Saiyan form, the only differences being that the hair and irises are light blue in color and the eyes are slightly bigger while the overall body structure is thinner taller and less rugged this form also uses Divine-ki and has a vibrant, electric blue aura where Super Saiyan 3 focused on bringing 100% of the user's ki this form focuses on concentrated ki control and retention of all of the excess energy that usually escapes the body. Super Saiyan 4: A form discovered through Saiyan Heritage this transformation uses a Saiyan's full potential by accessing the long forgotten form of the original Saiyans as such it is not a true Super Saiyan transformation but an atavism, in this form the hair lengthens down to the Abdomen and the tail is enlarged and made longer while the body is surrounded by red fur the user also possesses a red trim around the eyes as well as the eyelids and overall abilities being drastically enhanced by extracting the maximum amount of power from the Saiyans genes this is accomplished by combining the traits of the primal Great Ape with the traits of the Super Saiyan transformation after a great ape has achieved adequate amount of sentience and is able to overcome their rage once again combining the two separate branches of evolution into one it allows a Saiyan to overcome their limits. P:S Yes I know the names of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan Blue are different these names are actually better shorter versions of the official names.
@@toragon2736 He just called it sayian God and super sayian God because to him, those are better names for the DBS super sayian forms. Sayian God = Super Sayian God (red hair, official) Super Sayian God (blue hair, unofficial name) = Super Sayian God Super Sayian (or its new name, Super Sayian Blue.)
it's cause it actually had development and it contrasted how Baby achieved his form and was a fantastic form with a great design and a backstory of Goku becoming a golden Oozaru and managing to control himself and remember Pan achieving an incredible new form which btw was soo powerful it bypassed the black star dragon balls and returned Goku back to adult it also fully embraces the Oozaru and is an incredible and iconic transformation plus Sean Schemmel's ssj4 voice always gives me chills
The design tells you that it's the pinnacle form of a Saiyan. Like it looks calm and intelligent but at the same time brutal and primal. The design conveys already a story and you can look at it over and over and it looks like you are listening to it. It's art.
I also like how the trigger for 4 is the opposite of the first form. Instead of rage, the ultimate Saiyan power comes from the heart. Goku draws upon the love he feels towards his friends, his family, and his home, and thus he becomes a Super Saiyan 4.
@@prophetthedon4154 On the contrary...minus the badass part because it totally is. Vegeta achieved SSJ4 firstly by allowing Bulma to help him regrow his tail, something that a younger, more arrogant Vegeta would've never done. Then it was his love for her, Trunks, and yes, even Kakarot, that allowed him to fully transition into the form.
I think SSJ4 limit breaker in heroes fixed the aura issue which i agree with you on I really wish SSJ4 replaces all Super transformations already its infinitely better than the ones we got in Super
SS4 keep’s with the power of the Sayians. It’s their power, not some gods or some destroyer, it’s their power. The SS Ozaru is a masterpiece, the tail coming back and the over all look. It screams the pentacle of the Sayians power.
This right here is why I also like ssj4 or as I call it primal ssj but for all of the aesthetic's and themes surrounding ssj4 I unfortunately still have to place it's multiplier below the God form ( just for scaling purposes even though it breaks my heart to do it) super saiyan 4 = 1% of super saiyan god's power ( this calculation is a lowball for both form's) for me ssj4 = peak mortal saiyan power wereas super saiyan god is just a mortal saiyan temporarily turning all of their mortal quality ki into divine quality ki in their base form ( ssj god multiplier = god ki qu)
I agree that the Super Saiyan 4 is the best saiyan transformation. It best represents the natural progression of saiyan strength, mixing the natural hair color of the saiyans, the physicality of the great ape form, and the further increasing power of a super saiyan. Plus, Super Saiyan 4 has no set limitation to how strong it gets. Not to mention that Super Saiyan 4 looks cool and continues to be popular despite how people feel about dragonball gt. Super Saiyan 4 is the best!
I agree what I like about SSJ4 is that it seems to bring the Saiyan Form to full circles having to require the tail and drawing back into the Oozaru Form to have to achieve this form, the Oozaru is something absent from all the SSJ Transformations prior so this Form and to me touches roots with what a full potential Saiyan should be in his primitive Battle Instinct glory. It’s design easily is the BEST lot of important detail in it that embodies the primal battle hungry Saiyan is.
Well when both Goku went Super Saiyan for the first time and Gohan went SSJ2 there was a oozaru roar mixed in with their yell. At least in the Japanese version.
SSj4 is not only the best LOOKING transformation, it's also got the best perks. The form is literally built for war. Techniques don't work twice on it, he has UI-like abilities as seen when he caught a silent and energy-less clock face, he can't be knocked out of the form, etc. Also, like you said, it makes SENSE for the Saiyans to have this form. It plays off of both their heritage and legends. When I brought up these points to DBS fanboys, they thought I was nuts. I'm glad some people are finally starting to wake up.
@@SaturnineXTS color palette is based on preference tbh, there could be any color they would have used and ppl would still complain, heck I wouldn’t be surprised if the red and black was chosen by vote during the drafting process
@@hbshadow8981 Still, red and black doesn't feel stronger or more special than gold, that's the problem. We're expected to believe this form is beyond the golden-haired legendary SSj forms, but it looks comparatively much more mundane. I think it'd have been a much better fit for a form between the Ozaru and the SSj, just like what they did with the Ikari form in the new Broly movie
@@SaturnineXTS my guy at the end of the day it comes down to preference Me personally prefer it over the gold used in the earlier forms as it gives off a calm, collected superiority instead of a rage induced one like ssj1-3 At the same time i prefer it by its uniqueness, goku and vegeta ssj4 are different from each other, smth the other ssj forms only relied on their hair to do
I actually prefer ss4 aura being yellow, it shows that the form is still using all of the super saiyan power that the body has within its dna rather than just using a different source of power. If it wasnt yellow then people would say something like "what if goku went super saiyan on top of being ss4 like he does with great ape". Ironically thats exactly what they did to ssg by introducing ssb lmao. But I agree they could've added to it a bit like ss4 gogetas sparkles.
it’s called super saiyan 4. nobody is gonna ask “why not go super saiyan on top of it”. kaioken maybe, but not 1 on 4. the show did a good job showing us that it’s not an alternate progression but the next step after 3
@fulltimeslackerii8229 People are stupid, they would ask that question. The form is called "super saiyan god" and yet they still go super saiyan on top of it despite super saiyan already being in the name. And idk where you got that last bullshit, the show literally says it has nothing to do with ss3 and is only named 4 for convenience to keep it simple.
Dag I just realized that Goten might be our only hope of seeing SSJ4 in Super. Everyone else has already been given their own unique transformation path. Gohan-Beast Vegeta- UE Goku-UI Trunks- will probably get Rage at some point. Still at regular SSJ Pan and Bra-?? Nothing yet. Goten- still at regular SSJ like Kid Trunks Broly- Already has his Legendary form.
Fun fact: ssj4 allows the user to adapt to their opponents entirely, technique, moves, fighting style, and abilities. Kinda like broly this was shown in the fight with syn shenron and eis shenron. Depending on which grade of ssj4 the form allows to user to have some form of awareness, which their instinct kicks in which their body tells them whether they need to dodge an attack. So technically speaking have a fraction of broly’s adaptability, and omen Ui in a sense. Gt Goku stated “it’s like my body is moving on it’s own”. And to put icing on the cakes 🎂 their senses are heightened dramatically making not even have to rely on sensing ki to find the location of their opponents. Once he unlocked grade 3 in ssj4 in the shadow dragon saga Facts: Actually the ssj4 form is 4million in terms of power/ multiplier. The concept of ssj and ozaruu mixing is an understatement. Ssj is actually used as an engine for the ozaruu which empowers the ozaruu to dramatical heights. It does this by amplifying the amount of wavelength with in the ozaruu. Also depends on which grade of ssj you have but theoretically speaking grade 4 is use for this example. In return ozaruu starts going berserk which do to the amount rage boosts its getting from ozaruu allows ssj to increase in power/ multiplier. In which the cycle continues on and on until the user usually regains consciousness and push the “engine to its limits”. If not the their power will constantly increase to unstable heights until they destroys themselves in process. Hence the ssj profecy told by Vegeta in the namek saga, we were shown that the person went ozaruu with ssj and destroyed himself and the planet. So to simplify it golden ozaruu starting point is 500x-5,000x depending on the grade of ssj The end point of golden ozaruu when the user regains consciousness and has push the engine to it limits, will have a multiplier of 400,000x Now I’ll have to tell the you about ssj4 grades 1-4 Grade 1 ssj4 (4,000,000x) their user is put into their prime meaning that they are at peak performance and physique. The zenkais are at a exponential rate, and literally has the raw strength of the ozaruu condense to humanoid form. Grade 2 full power ssj4 (8,000,000) they get red outline around their body showing that they are in full power mode and literally unlocks 50% of the remainder of the forms power. Grade 3 is ultra full power ssj4 (8,000,000x) the multiplier remains the same but the primal power is reverted back to their base form meaning just like god ki the 8,000,000x is now applied to their base. As mentioned in the fun fact is now applied to their base form and they have ikari now meaning they don’t need to turn into a giant monkey due to them unlocking grade 3 ssj4. Their sense are now heightened to a exponential degree. Meaning that they don’t have to sense ki to find their opponent they can just sense them from the other 5 senses instead to pinpoint where they are. He unlock this form by using the remainder ssjs to give him his energy to by pass the grade system just like how he did with the battle of great ape baby vegeta. Now it time for grade 4 which is theoretical but is probably gogeta ssj4 form with red hair. Which I called ascended ssj4 where their hair change to red just like their fur to (16,000,000x and continues to increase since it continuously breaks the users limits) understand that this form is capable of making a power aura that can defend the users from any attacks. As shown when fighting omega shenron. Their was literally no bounds when it came to that form for gogeta. Ssj4 is another base form
Absolutely agree Mike! Just a few things you forgot to mention. 1.The form adapts to the enemy as Goku became immune to Eis Shenron's attack. 2.Goku was able to fight Syn Shenron while blinded "I can feel everyone of your moves before you make them" a light touch of Ultra Instinct. 3.With "Super Full Power" & "Limit Breaker" the form has displayed three levels of evolution.
Me I'm one of those Dragon Ball fans that always will believe GT is canon and counts because Akira Toriyama that has something to do with it it even supported it he did line art sketches for the series and even through his own version of Super Saiyan 4 but yeah I agree with you Super Saiyan 4 is a beast not only did it go against more powerful black star dragon balls and that wish which only speaks of true power in and of itself but all the other Transformations I've always sort of scene as buildups to the golden oozaru back on Planet Namek I'm not sure if most fans realize this or have forgotten but Vegeta had a flashback when Goku was picking apart frieza's henchmen it in that flashback the oozaru was golden and had yellow fur which was the true lure of the Super Saiyan there was no God even in it it was just the lure of the Super Saiyan but when Goku first transform into a Super Saiyan I've always believed it it's the very first step towards achieving the Super Saiyan 4 transformation that will later on be seen in GT from Super Saiyan 1 the Super Saiyan 3 the hair grew longer Wilder is Super Saiyan 3 the eyebrows disappeared with very much like the golden oozaru just without the tail they'll always believe that when Goku got his tail pulled out in GT it led to the ultimate transformation which was controlling the great golden oozaru Power harnessing it and achieving Super Saiyan 4 but as for it appearing and super no it needs to stay with GT the version of Goku in Super is regressed and not all that smart so with this damage the Forum just like what super has been renowned for doing his destroying things with Dragon Ball much like with Dragon Ball Z abridged way before it Dragon Ball ended on a high note in GT that's where it should have stayed Akira Toriyama was done with the whole project and it's work it's not been all that good with super because to me it's just a continuation of Dragon Ball Z abridged even the fan-made manga is way better the super is Dragon Ball Multiverse and Dragon Ball Deliverance even though not canon you're still outrageously awesome how far better than super is but those are my thoughts Super Saiyan 4 will always will be GT Goku's ultimate form that was the true continuation of Z but those are my thoughts.
Hahaah the leather pants comment made me lol also I’va always agreed that ss4 is the absolute coolest most unique transformation. Like the in-between man and ape. Great presentation!
There's a lot I can say about Super Saiyan 4, I will say that Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker having the hair glow gave me whiplash when I first saw it and thought it looked off but I think it look fine nowadays
Dragon ball Guide books always say that ( insert super saiyan form here ) takes a saiyans power to the utmost limits but ssj 1 through 3 still have static multipliers ( 50 to 400 )
Speaking of the aura, in Budokai 3 both SS4 Goku and SS4 Vegeta had red colored auras. Not sure why that game alone had the red, but it honestly worked so well. At least with the later Limit Breaker version of SS4 in DBH, he does get a reddish aura outside of Budokai 3.
It’s so sick on design, and honestly seems like a natural evolution of them! It’s so sick! I think and have faith they’ll make some sort of transformation like this canon on the future
considering how much the fans love the design of ssj3 and ssj4, it’s honestly animator laziness at this point that all the forms in super were just ssj but color swapped. they didn’t want to have to animate tails or hair
I feel like you read my comment I posted on one of your last vids about the form and glad we seem to agree on it. Looking forward to watching the rest of the vid.
My favorite thing about SSJ4 was that it was the controlling of the golden ape. It felt like a call back to the original dragonball where he destroyed everything and even killed his grandpa in it while in ape form (If I'm recalling right). The mastering of this form was the closure for that chapter where he'd never make that mistake again, and also he regained his tail and accepted his heritage or his saiyan self after all of these years.
The true definition of a limit breaking form🙌 even when losing it never felt like the form was at its limit. I think something that isn’t spoken on but rather ragged on sometimes is how often Goku uses ssj4 & being a child, but imo it really contributes to that full circle feel of ssj4 just feeling like goku’s base but on a whole other level. He didnt need glowing hair or yellow raging aura to feel powerful and intimidating he just looked like he would hurt you (although with Arua he also looked badass)
I think the video games should also be looked at. For YEARS super saiyan 4 was uncontestidly the strongest SSJ Form, over 2 decades I believe (not sure). And Gogeta was the un-contestidly strongest character in DB for nearly as long. Where as with SSGod/Blue/Evolution/UI you dont really get that sense of power. Though we've only had them in Xenoverse as far as I know, so i suppose it's a bit of a un-fair conparison.
and what cross everyone's mind. it's "X10" so that attack is like a super version of the attack or maybe stronger. but a few people made a theory that he's using kaioken when it's red and why he numbered the name of the attack.
Thoughts on the Super Dragon Ball Heroes series/game? Notable in this context for doing outrageous things like turning OG Broly SS4, but also for the "limit breaker" status/awakening of the SS4 form for Goku and Vegeta. Their outfits are still neat. I really like their cards in Dokkan Battle.
I like the implications of SSJ4. It implied mastery over the full potential power of the Oozaru transformation itself. Which in turn implied that it was separate from the actual Super Saiyan transformation and therefore has the potential to be combined with the "normal" Super Saiyan stages. After all SSJ4 is about how powerful the Oozaru is and reigning in that power and forcing yourself to pull it in. The Super Saiyan part of that is simply to achieve the amount of power needed for that to result in the SSJ4 form.
Absolutely if there's anything GT nailed it was SS4. Id love to see it return. The red/blue God modes are just recolors. Ultra instinct/Ego have cool concepts behind them. SS4 tho really looks and feels like Natural Saiyan Evolution.
In context it makes more sense than holding hands like they did with the SSJ God from the movie, that's a fact. Personally I think GT had some interesting ideas that could return, the planet exploration was great, the Evil Dragons, The Golden Oozaru, Super 17, Baby, Uub (Who got clapped real bad) and SSJ 4.
@@andrewatkins2037 I think a lot of them wok in concept now execution kinda well... Uub for example. Super 17: leaving aside the who hell going on, won't be surprised if the Doctor designed upgrade forms for 18 as well. Baby: kinda over powered having to your disposal the ability to control the whole planet. Golden Oozaru: would be like the perfect balance between the Primal Saiyan and the new one. Evil Dragons: pretty much wraps the whole story, everything started with the Dragon Balls and now the wishes bite back, it was probably the best oportunity to make all the other characters shine, each one taking one of the dragons, but because GT is too Goku focus, we didn't have that. The Planet thing are kinda doing it on Super, not to mention going further and adding other universes to the mix.
Tbh the thing I like in ss4 is simply that you finally see an adult and serious sayian. After all this years I liked to see some serious adult thinking in the battles.
I do like super Saiyan 4. I think it’s a little over designed, but the overall look with the longer black hair and the fur looks awesome. I love that the tails are back as well, definitely something I’d like to return for saiyans. I will defend super Saiyan god for still being a unique transformation. I love that the user becomes thinner and the fiery aura is awesome. Blue and it’s advancements are pretty bland imo
If people love ssj4 so much, which is form not designed by toriyama, then this means the series can potentially have greater concepts awaiting for us! Maybe when toriyama some day passes away, it will be great for the series, from ideas of other writers and animators (not saying toriyama passing away would be good, hell no, but yk what I mean).
I’ve always been a massive fan of SSJ4, but I also admit I like the concept of something like Super Saiyan God. SSJ4, while not having a very creative name, is an absolute unit of design; I do agree that the aura should be different, like maybe a red aura with gold lightning? But I’m fine with their hair being “base” coloration (and I’m a firm believer that Vegeta normally having dark brown hair would’ve been better anyway) What I wish they had done with God form is make it as much of a spiritual transformation as it was a physical one; like “oh, the reason you’re in your Base form is because you’re body has shifted into a higher state, beyond just physical transformations. You’re working with a whole new rule set when it comes to transformations and ki now.” Which I feel like was sort of the idea to begin with, like when they came up with the idea of figuring out how to go Super Saiyan on top of God form. But it wasn’t explored enough to be justified, which just made it stupid, along with the other hair dyes that have come since
The interesting thing about the aura is that seemingly most games have given SSJ4 a red aura? I think it was like that in Budokai and Tenkaichi games, except T1 might have had a golden aura. I prefer the black hair, though. Gives some decent contrast to the red fur.
I used to always debunk god ki wankers and explain why GT characters are stronger and why ss4 is the strongest transformation but then the power scaling in Super just got so overwhelmingly bad and inconsistent that they just cant be compared anymore. Where GT had consistent power levels that made sense within itself DBS is more like Superman comics where the strength of characters is just random and depends on who is writing the episode. Base Vegeta 1 shots Ss3 Gotenks in 1 episode, and Base Goku struggles against master roshi in the next.
You absolutely fucking nailed it!! On a side note, I like most of the GT storyline ideas. It's honestly salvageable. And yes, I like the use of Goku regressing into a kid as a proper reset just not via the black star dragon balls. GT has the potential to not only not fuck with the actual canon (sorry Super fanboys when I say this) by being that competent sequel but explore in full the consequences of all of their prior mistakes. I can definitely see what they're trying to do actually working. Super on the other hand is a bloody mess with similar philosophies and ideas people hated about GT and even the Buu saga, let's say. Yet it gets a pass because Toriyama is the spokesperson and provides notes and designs like he did with the films as well as it not being GT. I often feel no one honestly questions Super the way they do GT and it bothers me. It makes me hate the DB community most of the time.
I kinda liked how the red god form looked...at first. I liked that it didn't even seem like a super saiyan form. His hair looks more like it's in base, and the aura looks cool. But overall, the god forms feel like the Saiyans are trying to become gods (because that's exactly what it is), whereas SSJ4 was like the saiyans becoming more true to themselves. It was also a far more interesting path to reach SSJ4 (for Goku), as it ties into the original Saiyan lore by involving the oozaru. SSJG was just a simple ritual. It didn't feel earned. They didn't even figure out the ritual by themselves. They had to ask Shenlong about it. Even Goku talked about how he didn't like that he didn't earn it.
Gotta love super Saiyan 4! a part of me wants it to make a return in dragon ball although exactly how they would do that I'm not sure. Its definitely an awesome form though.
They could maybe give it to Broly but I doubt that since Broly technically already has a tailless version of it but maybe they could give it to Goten or Trunks and just retcon them not being born with tails (which didn't make sense anyways since Gohan was born with one)
ya dbs broly would be the only worthy one now. since he already has a legendary ss blood. which is special. then he mastered that ape absorbed form which made him huge n golden eye'd like ss4. continue to train and master his legendady ss power and potential i think they can make him ss4 someday!! like his tail regrows when he hits that level naturally. then he can go ape and all that stuff. or they could easily bring back his tail too. with dragonballs. namek dragonballs. super dragonballs. or whis magic or whatever. lol.
If there are Saiyans in other universes that are more similar to Universe 7 instead of 6, they could maybe have it. Only other ways I can think of are to either bring in the DB Online/Xenoverse stories or have some sort of Saiyan revival with characters like Nappa, Raditz and maybe King Vegeta. Say they've been training for the past 20 years to try to become strong enough to break out of Other World and then some other Saiyan survivor found some Dragon Balls and revived them all.
@Yorec F Now I wish the u6 saiyans were actually done better. They could've been older than Goku and Vegeta and far more experienced in the ways of saiyans, which allowed them to achieve all the super saiyan forms and master SSJ4 to such a pinnacle that there is barely a gap between it and SSB. While also having techniques that close the gap between them and Goku if he were to use kaioken.
@@powerjolt7215 I just wish that they weren’t in the modern Toriyama stick person style :P As for SSB vs SSJ4; I know that there’s tons of debate because of Heroes and how inconsistent it all is. I personally would’ve done the following: SSJ4 = SSG, SSJ4 Full Power (the one where Goku takes in the energy from other Saiyans and gets a red aura. Change it to being possible by passively taking in a bit of God Ki that the user then has access to at all times) = SSB, and Limit Breaker = SSBE/SSBKKx20.
I love this form it’s always been my favorite the moment i saw it. I’m curious though how do you feel about Gohans new beast form compared to ss2 teen gohan and black frieza.
GT has some good stuff to it that I would love to see adapted; SS4 is at the top of the list. I think it would be interesting for Broly to get it, since one of the plot points for Super Broly is that he has the OOzaru power without going ape. I could see that leading to him getting SS4, and make him stand out more. Would I want Goku and others to get it? Yes, of course. But Broly feels like the ideal canadate to introduce the form into the new time line. I also would LOVE to have Bebi and the Shenlongs show up. Espically the Shenlongs with the whole "created from selfish wishes" and well, Bulma's been abusing the shit out of the Dragonballs lately. It almost feels like begging for them to show up. There is some story potential with both of them, and with how they seem to be fleshing out the sayains in the Manga, Bebi and the Truffles feel like they'd come up at some point.
The way transformations are handled is one thing I think GT does better than Super. Instead of giving everyone all kinds of transformations, GT just gives out one (or two if you want to count the Golden Great Ape). It gives us one form that is meaningful over many forms that are meaningless.
I completely agree with this video, ssj4 looks like an actual evolution of the saiyajin biology, and super Saiyajin god, blue and ultra instinct look like they came out of fan videos from early RUclips titled "super Saiyan 1-1000!!!" And it would be a slideshow of Photoshopped photos of goku with his hair color swapped for some random color
is like with kingdom hearts. you left to believe from the 1st game and chain of memories at the time. you think the keyblades are for chosen ones. but after that "you get a keyblade and you get a keyblade!" like what happened to SSJ1. "everyone's a super saiyan now!". so yeah I agree GT was the only one was trying to do something different and when they got to baby saga the rest of the sagas were unique in there own right. super just copied abridged and gt in a bad way.
I agree the ssj4 is THE BEST over all of them. It looks so cool and raw. The colored hair gets old sometimes. The natural black hair is so good. Especially how his hair is designed. It looks like primal saiyan form
Love SSJ4 :) In Xenoverse, when you choose SSJ4 Goku against Beerus in VS mode, you get this dialogue: Beerus: This one looks different than your god form. What form is it? Goku: Super Saiyan 4 Beerus: Perfect!
DBS could reintroduce SSJ4, i doubt it will, but it could. The "god" forms and ultra instincts are internal and spiritual transformations, the mind, god ki etc. Now that goku and vegeta have that insane internal strength, they could have enough force and godki to compress the Ozaru and start a journey for a stronger physical body, embracing their origins with the ssj4. It will never happen, but it's a nice thought
When Goku and Vegeta fused in GT I always liked that their Super Saiyan 4 form sparkled opposed to being covered in lightning. I felt that it really gave a refined feeling to their fusion if that makes sense.
Yeah yeah! I get what You're saying, it's just so perfect!
And before Gogeta shows up, it has a normal feeling to it (sort of). Unlike with other SS’s where you can tell they are supposed to be fantastical and extremely powerful. That may be because it more closely resembles their base forms (unlike Gogeta).
wasnt really feeling the sparkle... should be left for attacks like stardust. a fire and electricity aura would have been perfect tho.
especially when ss4 gogeta was born. now that is what a saiyan "god" looks like and what beerus waiting for!! 😁👌
They had the same sparkle effect on the budokai games whenever u do the fusion dance I think ssj gogeta and gotenks had it too
Gotta agree, SSJ4 is just greatest. It’s also implied to be the true mastered form of the original Super Saiyan from the legend that Vegeta talked about in Z. The original SSJ appeared to be in a Golden Ape, but was unable to control the insane power and died as a result. However Goku controls Golden Ape and boom. 👀
Not to mention it made Goku's Dragonfist more regularly used as his finishing blow.
ya thats something that always blew my mind back when i realized it. ss4 was the og super saiyan of legend. true super saiyan. legendary super saiyan...
then before tori made broly canon. lol.
but i hope broly could get a form like this or something close someday. he already has golden eyes in that ape power absorbed form. so it makes sense
he could tap into ss4 or something....someday i hope!! gonna be wild seeing him with greenish gold fur tho. 😆😁 but i'll take it.
@@ssppeeaarr Super Broly isn’t THE Legendary Super Saiyan though, is he? I remember that they said he COULD be, but they never outright said it like with Z Broly
Edit: looking at it, Xenoverse and some Promos DO still call his form Legendary Super Saiyan.
Though, remember: Z Broly DOES get Super Saiyan 4. So if they wanted to bring it back in a canonical sense, they already have the precedent
@@borby4584 lol. ya man what else would dbs broly be? he proved this with easily keeping up with goku and vegeta. forcing them to fusion to defeat him. his power was legendary indeed.
then in the movie king vegeta freaking out over his power. realizing he aint the average saiyan. i think one of the saiyan scientist doctor ppl say he could be the saiyan the legends spoke of or something like that. when broly was crying and his power level rose up...
but ya dbs version broly is still legendary. the last form itself broly takes going super buff n crazy vs ssb gogeta is a direct throwback to dbz broly.
and ya i know ss4 broly exist in the games n db heroes. it looks awesome. i think there was even a broly with god ki on some japan only dbz festival thing. was called 4d dragonball or someshit. but ya if toriyama wants to he can make ss4 canon easily. especially with a saiyan of brolys calibur!!
GT fans rest easy every night knowing SS4 isn't a bargain sale that inexperienced rookies can achieve by doing the bare minimum
Without even watching, you're absolutely Right
I was thinking the same thing.
This guy gets it!
💯% agreed
the coolest looking form by far, but is outclassed in power by the god forms, still an epic form
Yup. SS4!! 🎉
Not only is SS4 the greatest looking transformation but it had the greatest effect on Gokus performance. He didn’t hesitate to finish off his opponents. And as a bonus, we got the Kamehameha x10 and Dragons Fist!
Ss4 is the only transformation that is actually treated like the ultimate power. Besides a dub line thats there for jokes its always treated as the absolute pinnacle of strength unlike something like ultra instinct where immediately in the next arc they make it seem like its just the next step and not the final destination. And the explanation on why ss4 is so strong is well thought out and makes sense. The saiyan body is combining all its transformation dna together in order to forge a new body that utilizes absolutely all of its dormant power inside.
damn which just makes it more impactful. it was the last evolution of super saiyan and the ultimate pinnacle of a saiyan.
yeah not even potential unleashed was safe. it got retconned with beast
@fulltimeslackerii8229 and he will probably go beast 2 or mastered beast. Honestly its prob gonna end with perfected mastered ultimate beast evolution
@@bitterthenu7278 thats a sad thing that happens when u got a series like dragonball. transformation fatigue... i do hope they let beast gohan shine a bit and explore its full power before the usual next level acesion that is expected.
lets not do the same mistake like with ssgod and ssb now toriyama and toei!! 😟
@ssppeeaarr ss3 was already stupid and just used for a quick boost in manga sales since another manga just had a new transformation around the same time. I love the design and like the built in weakness but it ruined the story completely. Maybe if they made it exclusive to fusions then it could work but ss2 was the perfect final transformation. It was the evolution of super saiyan finally done correctly after several failed attempts. Then Goku is like lol level 3
What I actually loved about SSJ4 is that it was a logical transition from the legendary super saiyan concept from Z all the way back to the Namek saga. The vision that they see of the legendary super saiyan is essentially a golden Uuzaru. This makes sense because the Saiyans have the Uuzaru form, which makes them increase in power factor roughly similarly to the super saiyan power factor. Obviously, if you could combine the two, the power factor would be immense, and it would fulfill the legendary characteristic of the super saiyan form. It also hearkens back to the "monkey king" roots of the original Dragon Ball. Of course, the real power of SSJ4 is that it represents the warrior gaining mastery over his own primal rage as a golden great ape, thus transforming him into the SSJ4 form.
It's much the same way that DBGT took the dragon balls themselves to their logical progression, with the black star balls and the feedback concept from negative intent when wishing upon the balls corrupting them. Similarly, the villains are the dragons behind the corrupted balls themselves. DBGT also did a great job of developing the characters in a natural way - Vegeta is a much more grown up and human reflection of Vegeta's experiences and personality at the end of Z, in contrast to how he is depicted in Super - basically a comic caricature of his most basic traits in Z.
Compare SSJ4 to the various kinds of hair color and aura changes in Super....no contest, really. In Super, it's just....god ki. Whatever that means.
You have to copy and paste this Everytime someone says ssgss is better and makes sense
It’s honestly amazing how Super Saiyan 4 is still used in the franchise to this day. I mean it even got a enhanced variant in Heroes. You’d think it would be forgotten but no
i never got why the fur turns to red tho?? aside from the real life explanation they didnt like how it look'd with gold fur.
yet we had ozaruu in gold. o toei. i would have liked that with the black hair. its an iconic symbolism of super saiyan.
the red fur is more badass. but still. lol legacy and lore matters. anyhow i hope tori does make this form somewhat
canon in his own interpretation someday. perhaps tweak the design to his liking and colors as well.
@@ssppeeaarr its a reference to the monkey king aka the character Goku was based off of
@@sammightyburgersdoublextre8278 oh ya i knew that. but i didnt think monkey king had red fur. its usually just a humanoid ape looking guy with brown fur...
@@ssppeeaarr Some adaptions have orange hair too
@@ssppeeaarr Kind of a tangent, but I think SSG being red is homage to SS4's red fur. Since SSG is the canon SS4 now.
Ssj 4 will always be GOATED. Its a saiyan fully awakening and mastering their lineage. The design is beyond iconic and looks mythological, divine even. It also came with a noticeable personality shift for Goku which tracks with the idea of him embracing his saiyan blood. Its debut and justification are also peak; Goku taking control of Oozaru and channeling his love and determination to condense the great ape into a new form of Super Saiyan, absolute genius.
If you think about it, SS4 is the ultimate transformation on paper. Ancient Saiyan heritage (super Saiyan god), Heightened Instincts (ultra instinct), Higher Confidence (ultra ego), Calm Demeanor / precise control of immense power (Ss Blue), A Beastly appearance and power (Gohan Beast) with massive bulk (orange piccolo) with hidden energy reserves (whatever Trunks did) ? Literally contains aspects of EVERY new transformation shown in Super so far.
Definitely, here's a description of every major transformation up to Blue
Super Saiyan: A transformation assumed by extraordinarily powerful fighters with Saiyan DNA, The most noticeable physical change is that the Saiyan's hair becomes golden blonde in color and seems to stand on end, giving it a spiky appearance while the pupils temporarily change to a greenish-blue, muscle tone becomes more defined and is accompanied by a slight increase in overall muscle mass, in contrast their Ki output is drastically increased giving them fifty times more energy than their normal Power and the users aura becomes much more violent and turns to a bright yellow color.
Super Saiyan 2: This transformation is very similar to the first transformation in appearance and use, the hair of the original transformation becomes longer, more rigid it stands up even more and while some muscle increase is present all physical abilities such as speed and strength are proportionally increased and the aura becomes so violently charged with energy that it spontaneously generates electricity, this form is twice as strong as the original Super Saiyan.
Super Saiyan 3: The third form of the Super Saiyan transformation and the successor to Super Saiyan 2 unlike the first two forms it is drastically different in appearance, eyebrow hair vanishes completely and the eyes and forehead become much more prominent while the Golden hair becomes large and draws back becoming rigid it grows down the user's back until it is just below their waist this form uses all of the potential in a Saiyans blood at once pushing them far beyond their normal limits and while an increase in overall ability is certainly gained the real power of this form comes from 100% utilization of Ki but even this transformation has its limits as it consumes far more energy than the others, which can leave a Saiyan feeling extremely fatigued this can be minimized somewhat after mastering the form but it will still leave the user feeling drained as a result the transformation needs to be used sparingly, this form is eight times as strong as the original.
Saiyan God: When in this form the Saiyan's general appearance remains unchanged with the exception of a few slight differences the skin tone becomes darker; the hair loses any stray tufts, lifts up slightly and gains the user's Super Saiyan bangs, with the hair becoming red; the Saiyan's eyes grow, becoming sharper and the irises also become red; the overall body structure appears to become younger, thinner, and somewhat taller; the aura becomes more explosive and flame-like in appearance, The form also allows the user to sense and possess Divine ki which can only normally be sensed and used by deities. This form is stronger than Super Saiyan 3.
Super Saiyan God: A Saiyan God that has turned into a Super Saiyan further increasing their abilities as a result this form exceedingly surpasses its predecessor, and all of the other Saiyan forms. This form is fairly similar to the original Super Saiyan form, the only differences being that the hair and irises are light blue in color and the eyes are slightly bigger while the overall body structure is thinner taller and less rugged this form also uses Divine-ki and has a vibrant, electric blue aura where Super Saiyan 3 focused on bringing 100% of the user's ki this form focuses on concentrated ki control and retention of all of the excess energy that usually escapes the body.
Super Saiyan 4: A form discovered through Saiyan Heritage this transformation uses a Saiyan's full potential by accessing the long forgotten form of the original Saiyans as such it is not a true Super Saiyan transformation but an atavism, in this form the hair lengthens down to the Abdomen and the tail is enlarged and made longer while the body is surrounded by red fur the user also possesses a red trim around the eyes as well as the eyelids and overall abilities being drastically enhanced by extracting the maximum amount of power from the Saiyans genes this is accomplished by combining the traits of the primal Great Ape with the traits of the Super Saiyan transformation after a great ape has achieved adequate amount of sentience and is able to overcome their rage once again combining the two separate branches of evolution into one it allows a Saiyan to overcome their limits.
P:S
Yes I know the names of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan Blue are different these names are actually better shorter versions of the official names.
Wait wait who is "Saiyan god"??
Kindly inform very curious
@@toragon2736 He just called it sayian God and super sayian God because to him, those are better names for the DBS super sayian forms.
Sayian God = Super Sayian God (red hair, official)
Super Sayian God (blue hair, unofficial name) = Super Sayian God Super Sayian (or its new name, Super Sayian Blue.)
@@toragon2736 Didn't you read the Post-Script? I mean I literally addressed that question in it.
Super Saiyan God AKA Full Mastered Kio Ken
"Goku broke into bulma hair dye closet" 🤣
it's cause it actually had development and it contrasted how Baby achieved his form and was a fantastic form with a great design and a backstory of Goku becoming a golden Oozaru and managing to control himself and remember Pan achieving an incredible new form which btw was soo powerful it bypassed the black star dragon balls and returned Goku back to adult it also fully embraces the Oozaru and is an incredible and iconic transformation plus Sean Schemmel's ssj4 voice always gives me chills
The design tells you that it's the pinnacle form of a Saiyan. Like it looks calm and intelligent but at the same time brutal and primal. The design conveys already a story and you can look at it over and over and it looks like you are listening to it. It's art.
It continues the ape lineages and comes full circle. So much better than god ki imo at least thematically
I also like how the trigger for 4 is the opposite of the first form. Instead of rage, the ultimate Saiyan power comes from the heart. Goku draws upon the love he feels towards his friends, his family, and his home, and thus he becomes a Super Saiyan 4.
But Vegeta just does it lol badass
@@prophetthedon4154 On the contrary...minus the badass part because it totally is. Vegeta achieved SSJ4 firstly by allowing Bulma to help him regrow his tail, something that a younger, more arrogant Vegeta would've never done. Then it was his love for her, Trunks, and yes, even Kakarot, that allowed him to fully transition into the form.
@@superpaytonmars8852 aye I can't argue with that. You're spot on bro.
I think SSJ4 limit breaker in heroes fixed the aura issue which i agree with you on I really wish SSJ4 replaces all Super transformations already its infinitely better than the ones we got in Super
Most of them. I think UI is better (if we count it as a SSJ) because it does more than just make Goku stronger
@@pn2294 UI isn't a Super Saiyan Form for example Whis is always in a passive UI state
@@UndergroundKaryn which makes it annoying that no one else can use it…
@@pn2294 ss4 does much more than just make Goku stronger
Super saiyan 5 EVEN THOUGH it's fan made is also way better and can beat UI.
SS4 keep’s with the power of the Sayians. It’s their power, not some gods or some destroyer, it’s their power. The SS Ozaru is a masterpiece, the tail coming back and the over all look. It screams the pentacle of the Sayians power.
This right here is why I also like ssj4 or as I call it primal ssj but for all of the aesthetic's and themes surrounding ssj4 I unfortunately still have to place it's multiplier below the God form ( just for scaling purposes even though it breaks my heart to do it) super saiyan 4 = 1% of super saiyan god's power ( this calculation is a lowball for both form's) for me ssj4 = peak mortal saiyan power wereas super saiyan god is just a mortal saiyan temporarily turning all of their mortal quality ki into divine quality ki in their base form ( ssj god multiplier = god ki qu)
I agree that the Super Saiyan 4 is the best saiyan transformation. It best represents the natural progression of saiyan strength, mixing the natural hair color of the saiyans, the physicality of the great ape form, and the further increasing power of a super saiyan. Plus, Super Saiyan 4 has no set limitation to how strong it gets. Not to mention that Super Saiyan 4 looks cool and continues to be popular despite how people feel about dragonball gt. Super Saiyan 4 is the best!
I agree what I like about SSJ4 is that it seems to bring the Saiyan Form to full circles having to require the tail and drawing back into the Oozaru Form to have to achieve this form, the Oozaru is something absent from all the SSJ Transformations prior so this Form and to me touches roots with what a full potential Saiyan should be in his primitive Battle Instinct glory. It’s design easily is the BEST lot of important detail in it that embodies the primal battle hungry Saiyan is.
Well when both Goku went Super Saiyan for the first time and Gohan went SSJ2 there was a oozaru roar mixed in with their yell. At least in the Japanese version.
For my headcannon super saiyan 4 is the true super saiyan transformation
@@devinsteele2424 have always thought this as well. I like to take it a step further and deem it as the Original Transformation
SSj4 is not only the best LOOKING transformation, it's also got the best perks. The form is literally built for war. Techniques don't work twice on it, he has UI-like abilities as seen when he caught a silent and energy-less clock face, he can't be knocked out of the form, etc. Also, like you said, it makes SENSE for the Saiyans to have this form. It plays off of both their heritage and legends. When I brought up these points to DBS fanboys, they thought I was nuts. I'm glad some people are finally starting to wake up.
Average dbs fan boys
Why red fur and black hair tho, come on
@@SaturnineXTS color palette is based on preference tbh, there could be any color they would have used and ppl would still complain, heck I wouldn’t be surprised if the red and black was chosen by vote during the drafting process
@@hbshadow8981 Still, red and black doesn't feel stronger or more special than gold, that's the problem. We're expected to believe this form is beyond the golden-haired legendary SSj forms, but it looks comparatively much more mundane. I think it'd have been a much better fit for a form between the Ozaru and the SSj, just like what they did with the Ikari form in the new Broly movie
@@SaturnineXTS my guy at the end of the day it comes down to preference
Me personally prefer it over the gold used in the earlier forms as it gives off a calm, collected superiority instead of a rage induced one like ssj1-3
At the same time i prefer it by its uniqueness, goku and vegeta ssj4 are different from each other, smth the other ssj forms only relied on their hair to do
I actually prefer ss4 aura being yellow, it shows that the form is still using all of the super saiyan power that the body has within its dna rather than just using a different source of power. If it wasnt yellow then people would say something like "what if goku went super saiyan on top of being ss4 like he does with great ape". Ironically thats exactly what they did to ssg by introducing ssb lmao. But I agree they could've added to it a bit like ss4 gogetas sparkles.
it’s called super saiyan 4. nobody is gonna ask “why not go super saiyan on top of it”. kaioken maybe, but not 1 on 4. the show did a good job showing us that it’s not an alternate progression but the next step after 3
@fulltimeslackerii8229 People are stupid, they would ask that question. The form is called "super saiyan god" and yet they still go super saiyan on top of it despite super saiyan already being in the name. And idk where you got that last bullshit, the show literally says it has nothing to do with ss3 and is only named 4 for convenience to keep it simple.
Dag I just realized that Goten might be our only hope of seeing SSJ4 in Super.
Everyone else has already been given their own unique transformation path.
Gohan-Beast
Vegeta- UE
Goku-UI
Trunks- will probably get Rage at some point. Still at regular SSJ
Pan and Bra-?? Nothing yet.
Goten- still at regular SSJ like Kid Trunks
Broly- Already has his Legendary form.
what about broly? hes most likely to go SSJ4
Fun fact: ssj4 allows the user to adapt to their opponents entirely, technique, moves, fighting style, and abilities. Kinda like broly this was shown in the fight with syn shenron and eis shenron. Depending on which grade of ssj4 the form allows to user to have some form of awareness, which their instinct kicks in which their body tells them whether they need to dodge an attack. So technically speaking have a fraction of broly’s adaptability, and omen Ui in a sense.
Gt Goku stated “it’s like my body is moving on it’s own”.
And to put icing on the cakes 🎂 their senses are heightened dramatically making not even have to rely on sensing ki to find the location of their opponents. Once he unlocked grade 3 in ssj4 in the shadow dragon saga
Facts: Actually the ssj4 form is 4million in terms of power/ multiplier.
The concept of ssj and ozaruu mixing is an understatement.
Ssj is actually used as an engine for the ozaruu which empowers the ozaruu to dramatical heights. It does this by amplifying the amount of wavelength with in the ozaruu. Also depends on which grade of ssj you have but theoretically speaking grade 4 is use for this example. In return ozaruu starts going berserk which do to the amount rage boosts its getting from ozaruu allows ssj to increase in power/ multiplier. In which the cycle continues on and on until the user usually regains consciousness and push the “engine to its limits”.
If not the their power will constantly increase to unstable heights until they destroys themselves in process.
Hence the ssj profecy told by Vegeta in the namek saga, we were shown that the person went ozaruu with ssj and destroyed himself and the planet.
So to simplify it golden ozaruu starting point is 500x-5,000x depending on the grade of ssj
The end point of golden ozaruu when the user regains consciousness and has push the engine to it limits, will have a multiplier of 400,000x
Now I’ll have to tell the you about ssj4 grades 1-4
Grade 1 ssj4 (4,000,000x) their user is put into their prime meaning that they are at peak performance and physique.
The zenkais are at a exponential rate, and literally has the raw strength of the ozaruu condense to humanoid form.
Grade 2 full power ssj4 (8,000,000) they get red outline around their body showing that they are in full power mode and literally unlocks 50% of the remainder of the forms power.
Grade 3 is ultra full power ssj4 (8,000,000x) the multiplier remains the same but the primal power is reverted back to their base form meaning just like god ki the 8,000,000x is now applied to their base.
As mentioned in the fun fact is now applied to their base form and they have ikari now meaning they don’t need to turn into a giant monkey due to them unlocking grade 3 ssj4.
Their sense are now heightened to a exponential degree. Meaning that they don’t have to sense ki to find their opponent they can just sense them from the other 5 senses instead to pinpoint where they are.
He unlock this form by using the remainder ssjs to give him his energy to by pass the grade system just like how he did with the battle of great ape baby vegeta.
Now it time for grade 4 which is theoretical but is probably gogeta ssj4 form with red hair. Which I called ascended ssj4 where their hair change to red just like their fur to (16,000,000x and continues to increase since it continuously breaks the users limits) understand that this form is capable of making a power aura that can defend the users from any attacks. As shown when fighting omega shenron. Their was literally no bounds when it came to that form for gogeta.
Ssj4 is another base form
Most people have no idea about any of this and just assume it’s a basic power boost
@@billyboleson2830 yeah and sadly people think a 500x multiplier is all the form offers.
I hope that beast Gohan can evolve his transformation and regrow his tail for that ss4 look
Vegeta traded in his lip hair for body hair
Absolutely agree Mike!
Just a few things you forgot to mention.
1.The form adapts to the enemy as Goku became immune to Eis Shenron's attack.
2.Goku was able to fight Syn Shenron while blinded "I can feel everyone of your moves before you make them" a light touch of Ultra Instinct.
3.With "Super Full Power" & "Limit Breaker" the form has displayed three levels of evolution.
I love how ssj4 is universally loved
Me I'm one of those Dragon Ball fans that always will believe GT is canon and counts because Akira Toriyama that has something to do with it it even supported it he did line art sketches for the series and even through his own version of Super Saiyan 4 but yeah I agree with you Super Saiyan 4 is a beast not only did it go against more powerful black star dragon balls and that wish which only speaks of true power in and of itself but all the other Transformations I've always sort of scene as buildups to the golden oozaru back on Planet Namek I'm not sure if most fans realize this or have forgotten but Vegeta had a flashback when Goku was picking apart frieza's henchmen it in that flashback the oozaru was golden and had yellow fur which was the true lure of the Super Saiyan there was no God even in it it was just the lure of the Super Saiyan but when Goku first transform into a Super Saiyan I've always believed it it's the very first step towards achieving the Super Saiyan 4 transformation that will later on be seen in GT from Super Saiyan 1 the Super Saiyan 3 the hair grew longer Wilder is Super Saiyan 3 the eyebrows disappeared with very much like the golden oozaru just without the tail they'll always believe that when Goku got his tail pulled out in GT it led to the ultimate transformation which was controlling the great golden oozaru Power harnessing it and achieving Super Saiyan 4 but as for it appearing and super no it needs to stay with GT the version of Goku in Super is regressed and not all that smart so with this damage the Forum just like what super has been renowned for doing his destroying things with Dragon Ball much like with Dragon Ball Z abridged way before it Dragon Ball ended on a high note in GT that's where it should have stayed Akira Toriyama was done with the whole project and it's work it's not been all that good with super because to me it's just a continuation of Dragon Ball Z abridged even the fan-made manga is way better the super is Dragon Ball Multiverse and Dragon Ball Deliverance even though not canon you're still outrageously awesome how far better than super is but those are my thoughts Super Saiyan 4 will always will be GT Goku's ultimate form that was the true continuation of Z but those are my thoughts.
GT fans: This does put a smile on my face
.................GT has fans?
Obviously?@@ilikecookies9796
Hahaah the leather pants comment made me lol also I’va always agreed that ss4 is the absolute coolest most unique transformation. Like the in-between man and ape. Great presentation!
There's a lot I can say about Super Saiyan 4, I will say that Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker having the hair glow gave me whiplash when I first saw it and thought it looked off but I think it look fine nowadays
Oozaru is so underused. That's why I love ss4. It brings the core of the original saiyan twist to the forefront
Dragon ball Guide books always say that ( insert super saiyan form here ) takes a saiyans power to the utmost limits but ssj 1 through 3 still have static multipliers ( 50 to 400 )
Ssj4 is such an amazing & savage transformation > Goku in ssj4 has the highest kill count of any other form.
100% agreed
SSJ 4 seems like natural progression of SSJ.
8:33- Gogeta SSJ 4 solves all those problems
I like super saiyan 4 look cool. Is my one favorite transformations
I just came from the Geekdom video with Broly and I had to come here, you’re absolutely right. I love SSJ4
Speaking of the aura, in Budokai 3 both SS4 Goku and SS4 Vegeta had red colored auras. Not sure why that game alone had the red, but it honestly worked so well. At least with the later Limit Breaker version of SS4 in DBH, he does get a reddish aura outside of Budokai 3.
Ssj4 in Budokai 3 has red aura with golden sparkles. It looked awesome.
It’s so sick on design, and honestly seems like a natural evolution of them! It’s so sick! I think and have faith they’ll make some sort of transformation like this canon on the future
considering how much the fans love the design of ssj3 and ssj4, it’s honestly animator laziness at this point that all the forms in super were just ssj but color swapped. they didn’t want to have to animate tails or hair
Ssj4 Gogeta looks like the REAL Super Sayain God if you ask me🤷♂️
Mike was right and I'm 3 seconds in Mike is literally a good RUclipsr in this community imo
I completely agree with you SSJ4 is my favourite transformation and SSJ3 second
That thumbnail is tuff.😎
I’m sure Harold would agree what with SSJ4’s furry gains.
I feel like you read my comment I posted on one of your last vids about the form and glad we seem to agree on it. Looking forward to watching the rest of the vid.
My favorite thing about SSJ4 was that it was the controlling of the golden ape. It felt like a call back to the original dragonball where he destroyed everything and even killed his grandpa in it while in ape form (If I'm recalling right). The mastering of this form was the closure for that chapter where he'd never make that mistake again, and also he regained his tail and accepted his heritage or his saiyan self after all of these years.
The true definition of a limit breaking form🙌
even when losing it never felt like the form was at its limit.
I think something that isn’t spoken on but rather ragged on sometimes is how often Goku uses ssj4 & being a child, but imo it really contributes to that full circle feel of ssj4 just feeling like goku’s base but on a whole other level. He didnt need glowing hair or yellow raging aura to feel powerful and intimidating he just looked like he would hurt you (although with Arua he also looked badass)
I think the video games should also be looked at. For YEARS super saiyan 4 was uncontestidly the strongest SSJ Form, over 2 decades I believe (not sure). And Gogeta was the un-contestidly strongest character in DB for nearly as long. Where as with SSGod/Blue/Evolution/UI you dont really get that sense of power. Though we've only had them in Xenoverse as far as I know, so i suppose it's a bit of a un-fair conparison.
The fact that his Kamehameha turns red is enough for me to say it’s the coolest 🤷♂️
and what cross everyone's mind. it's "X10" so that attack is like a super version of the attack or maybe stronger. but a few people made a theory that he's using kaioken when it's red and why he numbered the name of the attack.
Thoughts on the Super Dragon Ball Heroes series/game? Notable in this context for doing outrageous things like turning OG Broly SS4, but also for the "limit breaker" status/awakening of the SS4 form for Goku and Vegeta.
Their outfits are still neat. I really like their cards in Dokkan Battle.
I like the implications of SSJ4. It implied mastery over the full potential power of the Oozaru transformation itself. Which in turn implied that it was separate from the actual Super Saiyan transformation and therefore has the potential to be combined with the "normal" Super Saiyan stages. After all SSJ4 is about how powerful the Oozaru is and reigning in that power and forcing yourself to pull it in. The Super Saiyan part of that is simply to achieve the amount of power needed for that to result in the SSJ4 form.
my only issue with 4 is that you technically don’t need ssj1-3 to unlock it.
Whenever I think about GT I just think how cool the screenshots are and how the each arc had a good ideas but the execution just didn't land...
Absolutely if there's anything GT nailed it was SS4. Id love to see it return.
The red/blue God modes are just recolors. Ultra instinct/Ego have cool concepts behind them. SS4 tho really looks and feels like Natural Saiyan Evolution.
Pretty much agree, a lot of points I brought up in my own video awhile back. I didn’t know about the kabuki inspiration though, that’s dope
In context it makes more sense than holding hands like they did with the SSJ God from the movie, that's a fact.
Personally I think GT had some interesting ideas that could return, the planet exploration was great, the Evil Dragons, The Golden Oozaru, Super 17, Baby, Uub (Who got clapped real bad) and SSJ 4.
So basically all of Gt 😹😹 personally I thought it was a good addition to the series..
@@andrewatkins2037 I think a lot of them wok in concept now execution kinda well... Uub for example.
Super 17: leaving aside the who hell going on, won't be surprised if the Doctor designed upgrade forms for 18 as well.
Baby: kinda over powered having to your disposal the ability to control the whole planet.
Golden Oozaru: would be like the perfect balance between the Primal Saiyan and the new one.
Evil Dragons: pretty much wraps the whole story, everything started with the Dragon Balls and now the wishes bite back, it was probably the best oportunity to make all the other characters shine, each one taking one of the dragons, but because GT is too Goku focus, we didn't have that.
The Planet thing are kinda doing it on Super, not to mention going further and adding other universes to the mix.
Tbh the thing I like in ss4 is simply that you finally see an adult and serious sayian. After all this years I liked to see some serious adult thinking in the battles.
I do like super Saiyan 4. I think it’s a little over designed, but the overall look with the longer black hair and the fur looks awesome. I love that the tails are back as well, definitely something I’d like to return for saiyans. I will defend super Saiyan god for still being a unique transformation. I love that the user becomes thinner and the fiery aura is awesome. Blue and it’s advancements are pretty bland imo
Oh and how could I forget the eyes of super Saiyan 4, so cool
Haven’t even watched it and knew that was a scientific fact.
If people love ssj4 so much, which is form not designed by toriyama, then this means the series can potentially have greater concepts awaiting for us! Maybe when toriyama some day passes away, it will be great for the series, from ideas of other writers and animators (not saying toriyama passing away would be good, hell no, but yk what I mean).
That still pretty messed up tbh
You're team Gogeta? Damn I didn't know I could like you anymore than I already did lol. Great vid.
Also during SSJ3 other than the eye brows(when you were talking about the design) , their is the ozaru scream and monkey visual when transforming iirc
Tbf, that's anime filler
Love the consistent db content
7:01 SSJ4 Goku to SSJG Goku: you are a Saiyan trying to imitate a god. I am a Saiyan connected to my primal roots.
No stamina issues.
Isnt an asspull or retcon.
Not a friendship power up.
Brings back the oozaru roots and combines it with Super Saiyan.
More like it completes a saiyan’s power. It is the be-all and end all of what saiyan power is.
Something that a lot of fans forget is that 4 is a very important number to Goku. So even the name Super Sayian 4 is significant.
you've been going super saiyan lately man, keep up the good work, loving all the releases!
I don't like how he got a change of clothes like he's a goddamn power ranger. Other than that, it's dope
I’ve always been a massive fan of SSJ4, but I also admit I like the concept of something like Super Saiyan God. SSJ4, while not having a very creative name, is an absolute unit of design; I do agree that the aura should be different, like maybe a red aura with gold lightning? But I’m fine with their hair being “base” coloration (and I’m a firm believer that Vegeta normally having dark brown hair would’ve been better anyway)
What I wish they had done with God form is make it as much of a spiritual transformation as it was a physical one; like “oh, the reason you’re in your Base form is because you’re body has shifted into a higher state, beyond just physical transformations. You’re working with a whole new rule set when it comes to transformations and ki now.” Which I feel like was sort of the idea to begin with, like when they came up with the idea of figuring out how to go Super Saiyan on top of God form. But it wasn’t explored enough to be justified, which just made it stupid, along with the other hair dyes that have come since
8:53 In Budokai 3, SS4 Goku has a flame like aura while SS4 Vegeta's is yellow and pink.
The interesting thing about the aura is that seemingly most games have given SSJ4 a red aura? I think it was like that in Budokai and Tenkaichi games, except T1 might have had a golden aura.
I prefer the black hair, though. Gives some decent contrast to the red fur.
LSM grew out his stache inspired by gt vegeta
Damn right. It’s by far the best looking while also looking like an actual transformation not just some hair color change. I like 3 too though.
I love that ssj4 they brought back thea tails and it was apart of the transformation and golden great ape
I used to always debunk god ki wankers and explain why GT characters are stronger and why ss4 is the strongest transformation but then the power scaling in Super just got so overwhelmingly bad and inconsistent that they just cant be compared anymore. Where GT had consistent power levels that made sense within itself DBS is more like Superman comics where the strength of characters is just random and depends on who is writing the episode. Base Vegeta 1 shots Ss3 Gotenks in 1 episode, and Base Goku struggles against master roshi in the next.
You’re not wrong. Super Saiyan 4 is truly the greatest transformation in Dragonball.
All of the Thumbs up here yo.
You absolutely fucking nailed it!!
On a side note, I like most of the GT storyline ideas. It's honestly salvageable. And yes, I like the use of Goku regressing into a kid as a proper reset just not via the black star dragon balls. GT has the potential to not only not fuck with the actual canon (sorry Super fanboys when I say this) by being that competent sequel but explore in full the consequences of all of their prior mistakes. I can definitely see what they're trying to do actually working. Super on the other hand is a bloody mess with similar philosophies and ideas people hated about GT and even the Buu saga, let's say. Yet it gets a pass because Toriyama is the spokesperson and provides notes and designs like he did with the films as well as it not being GT. I often feel no one honestly questions Super the way they do GT and it bothers me. It makes me hate the DB community most of the time.
I kinda liked how the red god form looked...at first. I liked that it didn't even seem like a super saiyan form. His hair looks more like it's in base, and the aura looks cool.
But overall, the god forms feel like the Saiyans are trying to become gods (because that's exactly what it is), whereas SSJ4 was like the saiyans becoming more true to themselves. It was also a far more interesting path to reach SSJ4 (for Goku), as it ties into the original Saiyan lore by involving the oozaru. SSJG was just a simple ritual. It didn't feel earned. They didn't even figure out the ritual by themselves. They had to ask Shenlong about it. Even Goku talked about how he didn't like that he didn't earn it.
Gotta love super Saiyan 4! a part of me wants it to make a return in dragon ball although exactly how they would do that I'm not sure. Its definitely an awesome form though.
They could maybe give it to Broly but I doubt that since Broly technically already has a tailless version of it but maybe they could give it to Goten or Trunks and just retcon them not being born with tails (which didn't make sense anyways since Gohan was born with one)
ya dbs broly would be the only worthy one now. since he already has a legendary ss blood. which is special. then he mastered that ape absorbed form which
made him huge n golden eye'd like ss4. continue to train and master his legendady ss power and potential i think they can make him ss4 someday!! like his tail regrows when he hits that level naturally. then he can go ape and all that stuff. or they could easily bring back his tail too. with dragonballs. namek dragonballs. super dragonballs. or whis magic or whatever. lol.
If there are Saiyans in other universes that are more similar to Universe 7 instead of 6, they could maybe have it. Only other ways I can think of are to either bring in the DB Online/Xenoverse stories or have some sort of Saiyan revival with characters like Nappa, Raditz and maybe King Vegeta. Say they've been training for the past 20 years to try to become strong enough to break out of Other World and then some other Saiyan survivor found some Dragon Balls and revived them all.
@Yorec F Now I wish the u6 saiyans were actually done better. They could've been older than Goku and Vegeta and far more experienced in the ways of saiyans, which allowed them to achieve all the super saiyan forms and master SSJ4 to such a pinnacle that there is barely a gap between it and SSB. While also having techniques that close the gap between them and Goku if he were to use kaioken.
@@powerjolt7215 I just wish that they weren’t in the modern Toriyama stick person style :P
As for SSB vs SSJ4; I know that there’s tons of debate because of Heroes and how inconsistent it all is. I personally would’ve done the following: SSJ4 = SSG, SSJ4 Full Power (the one where Goku takes in the energy from other Saiyans and gets a red aura. Change it to being possible by passively taking in a bit of God Ki that the user then has access to at all times) = SSB, and Limit Breaker = SSBE/SSBKKx20.
I really love the monkey aspects of the Saiyans but we never get any of it anymore.
I love this form it’s always been my favorite the moment i saw it. I’m curious though how do you feel about Gohans new beast form compared to ss2 teen gohan and black frieza.
this is my favorite Super Saiyan transformation :) Super Saiyan 4
I remembering being introduced to ss4 in the games and now watching GT it lives up to its title
GT has some good stuff to it that I would love to see adapted; SS4 is at the top of the list. I think it would be interesting for Broly to get it, since one of the plot points for Super Broly is that he has the OOzaru power without going ape. I could see that leading to him getting SS4, and make him stand out more. Would I want Goku and others to get it? Yes, of course. But Broly feels like the ideal canadate to introduce the form into the new time line.
I also would LOVE to have Bebi and the Shenlongs show up. Espically the Shenlongs with the whole "created from selfish wishes" and well, Bulma's been abusing the shit out of the Dragonballs lately. It almost feels like begging for them to show up. There is some story potential with both of them, and with how they seem to be fleshing out the sayains in the Manga, Bebi and the Truffles feel like they'd come up at some point.
Love this video, super Saiyan 4 will always be the best form!!!! Preach!!!
In reference to the generic ssj aura with ssj4, I do appreciate that ssj4 gogeta gets sparkles around his aura
In DBZ Budokai 3 the SSJ4 aura is actually red in colour, loved it!
Because look at it!!!! 😍
The way transformations are handled is one thing I think GT does better than Super. Instead of giving everyone all kinds of transformations, GT just gives out one (or two if you want to count the Golden Great Ape). It gives us one form that is meaningful over many forms that are meaningless.
I completely agree with this video, ssj4 looks like an actual evolution of the saiyajin biology, and super Saiyajin god, blue and ultra instinct look like they came out of fan videos from early RUclips titled "super Saiyan 1-1000!!!" And it would be a slideshow of Photoshopped photos of goku with his hair color swapped for some random color
Frieza: no matter what color his fur is A Monkey Is Still A Monkey OOOOHOOHOO
Funny monkey mode is my favorite. Also I like that his hair is still black but grows
Also SSJ4 isn't a lazy color swap pallete like all of Super. Love the designs of GT. They actually tried to be creative and different in that regard.
is like with kingdom hearts. you left to believe from the 1st game and chain of memories at the time. you think the keyblades are for chosen ones. but after that "you get a keyblade and you get a keyblade!" like what happened to SSJ1. "everyone's a super saiyan now!".
so yeah I agree GT was the only one was trying to do something different and when they got to baby saga the rest of the sagas were unique in there own right.
super just copied abridged and gt in a bad way.
I agree the ssj4 is THE BEST over all of them. It looks so cool and raw. The colored hair gets old sometimes. The natural black hair is so good. Especially how his hair is designed. It looks like primal saiyan form
Love SSJ4 :) In Xenoverse, when you choose SSJ4 Goku against Beerus in VS mode, you get this dialogue:
Beerus: This one looks different than your god form. What form is it?
Goku: Super Saiyan 4
Beerus: Perfect!
I think the brown Ape fur and red eyes would of looked cool and made more senss. Even tho the red is badass
The ultimate return to monke
Would’ve liked Goku becoming a Adult permanently after his first time transforming into SSJ4
AGREED 1000% SSJ4 is truly amazing.
DBS could reintroduce SSJ4, i doubt it will, but it could. The "god" forms and ultra instincts are internal and spiritual transformations, the mind, god ki etc. Now that goku and vegeta have that insane internal strength, they could have enough force and godki to compress the Ozaru and start a journey for a stronger physical body, embracing their origins with the ssj4. It will never happen, but it's a nice thought