It technically is. I mean sure it wasn't achieved in the god ritual, but the god ki from Goku and Vegeta had to have some kind of affect in achieving the form. Couple that with limit breaker's strange resemblance to SSG it wouldn't make sense if the form was just an evolved state of ssj4
@@ashuraomega1000 I personally don’t think it did, just because it was God Ki, doesn’t automatically mean the Time Patrol Saiyajins would get it. But I get what you mean.
To last 30 years, it's obvious SS4 will never go away. No matter how badly people may want the form to be erased from history it will never happen. GT is here to stay and that will never change.
It won't go away because the form is well liked. Plus It's just a part of the series so video games like to use it as an additional form. That's how it should be regardless of your thoughts on GT as a whole. It is the highlight of the series
@@ClashMasterStudios2 I have never seen these Super fans who want SSJ4 to disappear. People might not like GT but that's separate from not liking SSJ4. As far as I'm concerned and with polls, SSJ4 is the most popular form design wise
Bruh, no one had ever said they want SSJ4 to be erased, it’s probably the most popular form amongst the fans and widely regarded as the best looking form in the series
The Xeno Goku should be capable of adding Kaioken to his SSJ4 form since he's not a child and had off screen time to train. If that happened he would have likely been able to surpass Ultra Instinct Goku
In the Super Dragon Ball Heroes promotional anime this form known as Super Saiyan 4 limit breaker is as close to ultra instinct in terms of power since it clearly seems to surpass Super Saiyan blue easily. Clearly one of the most interesting forms that they can give to the Legendary Super Saiyan 4 form that Goku and Vegeta have.
Simply put, it's a direct evolution of Super Saiyan 4 that, as the name put it, break the limit of the form at its full power. It's the same type of evolve that SSBE and SS2 are.
@@crestofhonor2349I agree with your statement. I think SSG is great and SSJ4 is my most favourite transformation in the series. But SSB is complete dogwater. It's not won any fights and is just overused and has no meaning behind it
SSJ4 Limit Breaker is one of the greatest things that came outta of SDBH aka Dragon Ball Heroes Series,and i do believe that Limit Breaker ssj4 is a Ssj4 imbued with trace amounts of God Ki due to 2 Super Saiyan Blues & a Super Saiyan God Xeno Trunks and plus after unlocking that power Xeno Goku & Xeno Vegeta do not need that ritual to utlize that form again it be access easily now
Now that we know that SSJ4 Limit Breaker is as strong as UI sign, this basically means that a hypothetical SSJ5 would be way stronger the the Complete UI
It is really satisfying enough that Goku's Ssj4 LB is equally comparable to the Ultra instinct sign transformation, glad it was the best level Ssj4 could reach.
Thank you for finally speaking about this! SS4 is equal to SSB and I love it that way. It's what I've always been repeating to people quarreling about which of the two is stronger. This is what seems to be the relative power of all transformations from DBH and DBS: Super Saiyan Blue = Super Saiyan 4 Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken = Super Saiyan Blue Evolved = Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker = Ultra Instinct Omen Mastered Ultra Instinct = Super Saiyan Blue Berserk Controlled (Vegeta's exclusive form in DBH) SSBK, though equal in power to SSBE according to DBS, is probably a slightly worse form and more comparable to Super Full Power Saiyan 4, since it's very taxing on stamina compared to SSBE. Then, of course, Ultra Ego and Beast have been shown to be roughly equal to Mastered Ultra Instinct.
@@DragonBallZVSNarutoShippuden Aren't we taking about the anime though? Fair point about Omen I guess. Though I remember UIO Goku fighting alongside SSBE Vegeta, but maybe I'm misremembering.
@DamonDraven master UI isn't even equal to berserk ssjb vegeta. It's stronger. And ssj4 full power is literally just ssj4 nothing else, goku cc still beats him. The game is official and the manga is more than the anime
@@DragonBallZVSNarutoShippuden Weren't they shown to be roughly equal when fighting alongside each other? Again, I might be misremembering since it's been some time. SSJ4 Full Power is not "just SSJ4", it's obviously stronger. Imagine making a power-up form with a different look just to have it be as strong as the one before that. It would be the worst power-up ever! I don't know about the game vs anime thing, mate. A lot of things would be messed up if we were to go by games, for example SSJ could never possibly be a x50 multiplier. I'd agree with the anime vs manga thing if it wasn't for Super establishing two equally important canons for anime and manga, so I don't see why Heroes can't be the same.
It's not Multiverse, it's multi timeline. I've always loved all series, and Super Saiyan 4 and Ultra Instinct, but never liked Super Saiyan Blue to this date. Ultra Instinct works differently from everything else, and is about outmanuavering opponents with God like techniques to deliver more power blows and speed etc.. So it made since to me for completely different reasons.
My take is it's just Super Saiyan 4 Ultra Power but with Divine Energy. I've lost interest in Dragon Ball Heroes since it's just used for marketing ploy in their gacha games. But I do appreciate the concepts on how Goku and Vegeta as Super Saiyan 4 taps in their Primal Energy together with Divine Energy.
My biggest thing with Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker is where this exactly this form falls in power-wise with the super forms is whether it has god ki in it or not has been debated , If it doesnt then I can see with being on par with ui omen but if it has god ki it should be mui tier level of broken or higher, Not to mention capsule corp goku has rediculous amount of plot armor/recency bias going for him in that fight, knowing how much more experienced and an overall smarter fighter Xeno Goku is which was out of character for him to charge in head first at a form he damn well knows is a counter punching machine form.....
I think the idea that xeno goku missed the final punch instead of a full trade of blows made it clear that CC goku couldnt take a punch with everything either, head cannon as it may be. Though imagine if it was the dragon punch
Let's not forget cc Goku literally got a massive power amp after his fight with dark king Fu with the universe tree which gave him a massive zenkai too when he almost died, I would've been shocked if UI Goku didn't beat xeno Goku after the amp lol
I would like that but at the same time, I don’t want it. S.S.4 works with GrandTour, the story that introduced it was meaningful, it’s a major reason why S.S.4 was incredible.
I can't think of a reason SSJ4 should appear without some major caveat that would feel maybe contrived. I have thought of ways but it would just be the same issue Dragon Ball has had for years. New threat means new form. DBZ, DBGT, and Super all have this issue. Every new threat required a new form
I would've settled for Super making it cannon by giving it to broly....instead we got nice guy with uncontrollable power Broly. Not bad...but we really didn't need a good guy Broly. We have Kale for that.
Funny thing is i think they gorgot that xeno goku who turns ssj4 is saiyan beyond goku, because im pretty sure he did go ssg but didnt train with whis or something like that. So this ssj4 awakened ver is beyond ssb of main uni.
I would have given that, or found a way to give that form of SS4 to Vegeta during his personal battle to avenge his death when fighting Frieza's family--as I do agree that Frieza shouldn't have come back. In fact, I would have made that film specifically about Vegeta and perhaps kept Goku out for once while planning for another. The same with Trunks and his return in Super. A spin-off would have been perfect for Trunks, as I would have kept him in the future and the writers handling his character so much better than what we were given then. I mean, in my opinion, Super should have been used as a series to find ways in making the 90s films canon in some way; an example being Turles and Raditz instead of what we were given. But to finally watch someone who's on the same page with me in terms of Dragon Ball and the cash grab chronicles that we were ultimately given. Because no matter what, Super was an insult.
You say blue and ssj4 are equal in their respective series but when I was scaling gts busting power starting from fusion reborn Goku I got a WOPING 727,061,575,830,000× base and blue scaling off of ssj3 vegetio is a 40,000,000× base
Great video but just to clarify, Xeno Goku and Xeno Vegeta are not Gt Goku and Gt Vegeta, they are Z-movies Goku and Vegeta. Xeno Goku was the one that fought Garlick Jr., Dr. Willow, Turles, Slug, Cooler, Broly, Janemba, and Hirudegarn, then after being recruited to the Time Patrollers, Xeno Goku went to the Gt timeline to fix a distortion and achieved Super Saiyan 4 after fighting Baby, that is why Xeno Goku is so strong, he faced many more enemies than Super or Gt Goku.
Don't hate me for my opinion But xeno goku actually got nerfed here in against ui goku . Since gt goku learned the movement of master rosi that is similar to UI movement. Yes master rosi created his own UI movement ( proof dbs tournament of power manga ) . So xeno goku has more experience than cc goku so he supposed to know about this movement technique from master rosi and supposed to use it but he didn't. Creator of this promotional anime doesn't want to be hated by super fans .
This is base off the anime, not the manga. In the anime roshi doesn't use the properties of UI and goku got UI by almost dying so its different It's similar to how goku learned to combine KK with blue in the anime, but he full mastered and fixed blue stamina issue in the manga (and learned the haki)
Roshi never used a psuedo ultra instinct in GT and ssj4 goku depended on his ki sensing, not anything he learned from Drgaon Ball. Whis is the one who open those doors for ultra instinct. Cc goku actually has experienced a wider set of foes and beat some villians that xeno goku couldnt. He beat final form mira in xenoverse 2, he beat cumber when both ssbkk vegetto and full power ssj4 vegetto couldnt. He beat ssj4 xeno goku during the prison planet arc. It wasnt that xeno goku was nerfed, it's because cc goku is way out of his league
@katherineevangelia9649 Ssj4 Goku just had heightened senses while blind. Even Dbs Gohan in base had heightened senses when blinded by Lavender. Ultra instinct is supposed to be beyond any senses, it's the body moving on its own.
Goku stated against Omega Shenron that he could feel his moves before he could make them. Making it a much more reliable "ultra instinct " of sorts. Also keep in mind his durability GT Goku can get hit by an attack and after that the attack will quite literally not ever work again. I just feel like the Primal form is a much more well rounded and reliable form compared to the Angelic form.
I guess the Super Saiyan 4 tree took over the Super Saiyan Blue’s tree of being the strongest natural Saiyan form, huh? Edit: for those who are confused, I am referencing a video Saiyan Scholars made about Super Saiyan Blue being the strongest natural Saiyan Form.
@@mushroom11g55 Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker is as strong as Ultra Instinct Sign. Now, before anyone claims that’s because Goku Xeno has a stronger base form, in the SDBH manga, CC Goku and Goku Xeno were even in base to Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan 4 was able to go toe to toe with Super Saiyan Blue. And then Super Saiyan 4: Limit Breaker is able to do the same against Ultra Instinct Sign.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 SBDH is a very unreliable source where everyone is equal because it's a game and they don't want OP characters. And also, UI Omen isn't really that string, it's more about the dodging ability, speed, and Critical Hit Damage. That's why Goku wants to mix UI with SSB instead of just going Omen. Omen Goku has shown no solid proof of being stronger than SSB. For example, he didn't beat Jiren in any beam struggles, he diffused the beams by targeting their weak spot, but he never directly shown RAW POWER feats beyond SSB. He hurt Jiren, because he lands Critical Hits and Perfect Counters. Jiren can see everything that SSB does and brace for impact, but not UI. Although UI Omen beats SSB in a fight, in RAW POWER, SSB is equal or better.
@@mushroom11g55 Super Saiyan Blue is in no way shape or form equal or stronger than Ultra Instinct Sign. Goku in Blue was easily getting his butt whooped by Jiren, but in U.I. Sign, Goku had a much better showing against him in both Speed and Power. During their first fight, Goku and Jiren had that very fast fist exchange and Goku was able to break through and knee him in the stomach and blast him away, something he couldn’t do before achieving U.I.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 bruh 🤦♂️ I SAID RAW POWER, UI OMEN DIDNT HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO BE STRONGER THAN SSB! And I said " UI Omen will beat SSB IN A FIGHT"! By saying this, I'm saying Power is not the only way to win a fight. UI Omen did NOT win any beam struggles that SSB struggled with. UI Omen dealt with beam struggles BY DIFFUSING THEM, NOT OVERPOWERING THEM. UI Omen was working on Jiren, BECAUSE HES A BETTER AND FASTER FIGHTER, and was landing Perfect Counter hits for Crit Damage. It's like a 160 lb bodybuilder vs a 160 lb Bruce Lee. The Bodybuilder might be as strong or stronger, but Bruce Lee will STILL win a fight because he's a better and faster fighter! SSB Goku was landing hits on Jirens Guard, UI Omen Goku was landing hits BEHIND Jirens Guard. It's not power, it's Skill and Speed.
Liked the video, but the only thing I have to say is that xeno goku isn’t gt goku or a version of gt goku necessarily, it’s been stated that he’s just a goku with access to all of gokus forms and powers( at the time which included gt but not super) as he’s pulled from trunks when supreme Kai of time asked him to think of the strongest fighter he knows. If anything he’s a goku that has experienced all the movies with a transformation tree of gt, and CC goku is the same but the transformation tree of super as he also knew movie characters that the main timeline goku does not.
I honestly don't care what new color of the rainbow they decide to come up with for SSJ next, SSJ4 will always be my favorite transformation. UI is admittedly a cool transformation and is one of the most unique concepts to have come out of Super, however I still prefer SSJ4 for not only its design but also for how well it intigrates both concepts of Saiyan evolution into a single form and expands on it. SSJ4 to me symbolizes the ultimate form of Saiyan evolution. Super Saiyan God as a form never made sense to me since it's a form that REQUIRES multiple PURE HEARTED Saiyans to collectively give a single individual their power for them to become a SSJG. The problem is though that prior to Earth the only pure hearted Saiyan I know about was Gine (Goku's mom) since the Saiyans as a whole weren't exactly a race known for hugs and kisses so the likelihood of there being enough oddball Saiyans and they all happening to end up on the same planet together and just happened to give their energy to 1 of them? Yeah that sounds highly unlikely to me. The only other way to turn SSJG is to be in a realm of the gods for a long period of time in order to absorb god ki and/or develop god ki naturally, and we all know that before Goku and Vegeta that's not happening either. That is why to me SSJG doesn't make any sense nor do I feel like it fits the established lore of the Saiyans. The reason I think UI works so well in concept is because it's not something that just ANYONE can obtain, you need a certain set of skills in order to even try to achieve it and even then you're not guaranteed to achieve it either since even the God of Destruction couldn't even do it. It's not the sort of form you could simply achieve with tingling back nonsense, no you have to work for it and the results speak for themselves.
I feel like Xeno Goku should at LEAST know Roshi’s version of UI Sign, he has a lot more experience and we know SSJ4 greatly enhances your senses not to mention he saw C.C Goku use UI Sign and AUI multiple times, him not trying to use UI at least once doesn’t feel right to me, even if it was for a brief moment, he should have succeeded in using UI Sign, it would have put Xeno Goku in a unique position as when he gets back to his own timeline he won’t be able to train under Whis, Merus or Grand Priest to further develop UI and would instead have to develop it himself in a way that’s similar to DBS Manga Goku where he uses emotions maybe the next time Xeno Goku & C.C Goku met they could have fought with one using Mastered AUI while the other used True UI + SSJ4 Limit Breaker, it would have been a amazing battle and would make sense.
From my thoughts I would still go with SSJG being equal to SSJ4. Part of the reason is because Xeno Goku in base is so much stronger than CC Goku. This lends him quite the edge. Another reason why is because both of these are premier forms for both series. They were never going to let SSJB overpower SSJ4 as both forms are the feature for both, one is what happens when a saiyan gets god ki and the other is when a saiyan reaches their fullest potential using normal ki. Both forms were going to be presented as equal to satisfy fans and to make having two Goku and Vegetas more interesting to watch. Wouldn't have been interesting to see CC Goku dominate every battle while Xeno Goku struggles, much better to see them on equal footing with a few advantages to each version of Goku. Plus much of SSJ4 Goku advantages come from his additional experience as a fighter. That is shown in GT like when he's blinded. His ability to counter and memorize attacks isn't special to SSJ4, it's how far he's come with martial arts. SSJ4 allows him to access way more power with very little stamina drain. It keeps the body muscular without being overly bulky like with SSJ1 Grade 3. CC Goku with God ki focuses on how gods use their ki and that never comes from raw power hence the slimming down of the body. Much of the muscle isn't needed to hit as hard as you need to. SSJB of course does add more musculature to the body as a result of it being super saiyan on top of SSJG Both forms are the ideal form of a saiyan whether it be SSJG/SSJB or SSJ4. Both tie into their history and both represent the different ideals. SSJ4 is when a saiyan masters both super saiyan and their oozaru form and then combine them into one. SSJG is when a saiyan is able to gather enough pure hearted saiyans to perform a ritual. Both are extremely difficult for any saiyan to achieve on their own thanks to the requirements of both
I always saw Limit Breaker as GT’s answer to DBS’s Evolution Edit: Because Death Battle said that SSJ4 Limit Breaker Gogeta and SSB Evolution Gogeta were similar in power in Gogeta vs Vegito Edit 2: Because of the perspective I saw Limit Breaker and Evolution as a Vegeta thing. Edit 3: Because of what Death Battle said that SSB Evolution Vegeta easily comparable to SSB Kaioken x20 Goku in Thor vs Vegeta, I just saw Evolution and Limit Breaker as Vegeta’s answer to Goku’s Kaioken
Yeah.. A VERY Dam Odd Form I Mean What Even IS the Lore Behind It Anymore?! Is It Just SS4 Mixed With God Ki? (No Not God Ki As In Mixed With SUPER SAIYAN GOD😒 JUST GOD KI…) Or Is It Just… Idk SS4 Filled To The Brim With Ki Like The Ridiculous Description Said? ( If You Wanna Know What The Hell Im Talking About Just Search Up On Google “ What Is Limit Breaker SS4?“”)….. Yeah Thats Pretty Much All I Have To Ask🗿
Xeno Goku and CC Goku aren’t GT Goku And Super Goku it doesn’t make sense to me Xeno Goku in the video games was wearing the Z Outfit so yea and Super Goku gets ultra instinct from the Moro arc so um yea
@ thank you so much for this. I remember the first time I watched it, I remarked the same way you did to us in one of your older videos where you were explaining the amplification of SSGSS, exclaiming “good heavens.” 😂
Yes the form is just a recolor, but it being on the more complex SSJ4 is actually fine. It is a great way to bring an older form up to date. As long as the next transformation after it gives more. It honestly gives me SSG vibes, which I truly like that form a lot. And also love how limit breaker is so jacked.
No disrespect but your bias is showing, Limit Breaker & Blue are literally the same level of a recolor no matter how you slice it. It's okay to like one more but also let's be real, Limit Breaker is just a recolor of a fan-favorite form.
LB SS4 has longer hair than the normal version of SS4 as well. I think it's to show the stage up SS2 kind of aesthetic change. Gogeta's version of this form also has super long hair, almost SS3 level long
My dear friend, I humbly disagree, the DBH SSJ4 Goku (Xeno) vs TUI Goku does not do justice to end of GT SSJ4 Goku, this is a guy who can tank a Kama bomb in kid base form, There needs to be a rematch my friend, Supreme Kai is considered to have divine ki however would you say he is stronger and more trained then base GT Goku I think not, I believe a GT SSJ4 Goku vs SUPER TUI Goku is actually no contest TUI Goku would not be able to harm GT SSJ4 Goku, It's not about growing up my friend what we have is what we can see at the end of GT because it is always set is the future.
Ssj4 will never be outdated such a raw and powerful design, befitting of a veteran saiyan warrior
Yee!
I wouldnt be surprised if they bring it back at the end of super
This is a goated comment
I wish Super Broly should got this form since he's already using great ape power.
But it probably won't be called "Super Saiyan 4"
@@masonwilson7910making it the ultimate form
Basically as close as we'll get to ssj4 god
Yep lol
It technically is. I mean sure it wasn't achieved in the god ritual, but the god ki from Goku and Vegeta had to have some kind of affect in achieving the form. Couple that with limit breaker's strange resemblance to SSG it wouldn't make sense if the form was just an evolved state of ssj4
@@ashuraomega1000 you beat me to it lol
@@ashuraomega1000
I personally don’t think it did, just because it was God Ki, doesn’t automatically mean the Time Patrol Saiyajins would get it. But I get what you mean.
@@azimuddin1890 Xeno Goku already has god ki
To last 30 years, it's obvious SS4 will never go away. No matter how badly people may want the form to be erased from history it will never happen. GT is here to stay and that will never change.
Bruv no one wants the form to be erased! Ask any fan they'll be like its the coolest non cannon transformation, followed by coolera transformations.
@@harikiranv8580 There are Some Fans who want it to Disappear Super Dragon Ball Fans some of them especially the one's who love God Form
It won't go away because the form is well liked. Plus It's just a part of the series so video games like to use it as an additional form. That's how it should be regardless of your thoughts on GT as a whole. It is the highlight of the series
@@ClashMasterStudios2 I have never seen these Super fans who want SSJ4 to disappear. People might not like GT but that's separate from not liking SSJ4. As far as I'm concerned and with polls, SSJ4 is the most popular form design wise
Bruh, no one had ever said they want SSJ4 to be erased, it’s probably the most popular form amongst the fans and widely regarded as the best looking form in the series
The Xeno Goku should be capable of adding Kaioken to his SSJ4 form since he's not a child and had off screen time to train. If that happened he would have likely been able to surpass Ultra Instinct Goku
In the Super Dragon Ball Heroes promotional anime this form known as Super Saiyan 4 limit breaker is as close to ultra instinct in terms of power since it clearly seems to surpass Super Saiyan blue easily.
Clearly one of the most interesting forms that they can give to the Legendary Super Saiyan 4 form that Goku and Vegeta have.
Simply put, it's a direct evolution of Super Saiyan 4 that, as the name put it, break the limit of the form at its full power. It's the same type of evolve that SSBE and SS2 are.
SSJ4 is WAAAAAAAAYYY cooler than dumb SSJ God.
This is what the ultimate SSJ should look like. Period.
Nah I can't agree. Both forms have their benefits
@@crestofhonor2349I agree with your statement. I think SSG is great and SSJ4 is my most favourite transformation in the series. But SSB is complete dogwater. It's not won any fights and is just overused and has no meaning behind it
SSJ4 Limit Breaker is one of the greatest things that came outta of SDBH aka Dragon Ball Heroes Series,and i do believe that Limit Breaker ssj4 is a Ssj4 imbued with trace amounts of God Ki due to 2 Super Saiyan Blues & a Super Saiyan God Xeno Trunks and plus after unlocking that power Xeno Goku & Xeno Vegeta do not need that ritual to utlize that form again it be access easily now
Ngl I forgot how badass this form looks
I love limit breaker super saiyan 4
I've waited for this video for a long time.
It’s basically SSJ4 + SSG so there’s no doubt it’s much stronger than SSJ Blue, it makes sense that C.C Goku NEEDED AUI to beat it.
Great Video bro I enjoyed it 😊
Always look forward to the outro of your videos! So nostalgic and sentimental between the video and soundtrack
One of my favorite forms honestly.
Now that we know that SSJ4 Limit Breaker is as strong as UI sign, this basically means that a hypothetical SSJ5 would be way stronger the the Complete UI
yyaaasssss! im day drinkin havin a good time and boom a new video up! thanks dude!
DBZ bt2 music start screen take me back good times😌
It is really satisfying enough that Goku's Ssj4 LB is equally comparable to the Ultra instinct sign transformation, glad it was the best level Ssj4 could reach.
Thank you for finally speaking about this! SS4 is equal to SSB and I love it that way. It's what I've always been repeating to people quarreling about which of the two is stronger.
This is what seems to be the relative power of all transformations from DBH and DBS:
Super Saiyan Blue = Super Saiyan 4
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken = Super Saiyan Blue Evolved = Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker = Ultra Instinct Omen
Mastered Ultra Instinct = Super Saiyan Blue Berserk Controlled (Vegeta's exclusive form in DBH)
SSBK, though equal in power to SSBE according to DBS, is probably a slightly worse form and more comparable to Super Full Power Saiyan 4, since it's very taxing on stamina compared to SSBE.
Then, of course, Ultra Ego and Beast have been shown to be roughly equal to Mastered Ultra Instinct.
It's not equal. In the game, ssjb beats ssj4
And he still beats him in omen.
@@DragonBallZVSNarutoShippuden Aren't we taking about the anime though?
Fair point about Omen I guess. Though I remember UIO Goku fighting alongside SSBE Vegeta, but maybe I'm misremembering.
@DamonDraven master UI isn't even equal to berserk ssjb vegeta.
It's stronger.
And ssj4 full power is literally just ssj4 nothing else, goku cc still beats him.
The game is official and the manga is more than the anime
@@DragonBallZVSNarutoShippuden Weren't they shown to be roughly equal when fighting alongside each other? Again, I might be misremembering since it's been some time.
SSJ4 Full Power is not "just SSJ4", it's obviously stronger. Imagine making a power-up form with a different look just to have it be as strong as the one before that. It would be the worst power-up ever!
I don't know about the game vs anime thing, mate. A lot of things would be messed up if we were to go by games, for example SSJ could never possibly be a x50 multiplier. I'd agree with the anime vs manga thing if it wasn't for Super establishing two equally important canons for anime and manga, so I don't see why Heroes can't be the same.
It's not Multiverse, it's multi timeline. I've always loved all series, and Super Saiyan 4 and Ultra Instinct, but never liked Super Saiyan Blue to this date. Ultra Instinct works differently from everything else, and is about outmanuavering opponents with God like techniques to deliver more power blows and speed etc.. So it made since to me for completely different reasons.
My favorite form !
Very cool Thank you
My take is it's just Super Saiyan 4 Ultra Power but with Divine Energy. I've lost interest in Dragon Ball Heroes since it's just used for marketing ploy in their gacha games. But I do appreciate the concepts on how Goku and Vegeta as Super Saiyan 4 taps in their Primal Energy together with Divine Energy.
SS4 is awesome 😎
I've played with this form in an ISO mod for Budokai Tenkaichi 3, it's super cool!
Hear me out: a combination that results in a Canon SSJ5. Ssj4 looks but with the sweet glowing white hair. Like an old man Sun Wukong
My biggest thing with Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker is where this exactly this form falls in power-wise with the super forms is whether it has god ki in it or not has been debated , If it doesnt then I can see with being on par with ui omen but if it has god ki it should be mui tier level of broken or higher, Not to mention capsule corp goku has rediculous amount of plot armor/recency bias going for him in that fight, knowing how much more experienced and an overall smarter fighter Xeno Goku is which was out of character for him to charge in head first at a form he damn well knows is a counter punching machine form.....
Its stronger than MUI they just made cc goku have a stronger base for some reason.
I think the idea that xeno goku missed the final punch instead of a full trade of blows made it clear that CC goku couldnt take a punch with everything either, head cannon as it may be. Though imagine if it was the dragon punch
If SS4 is suppose to be equal to SSB, how do you think SSBKK would do against omega Shenron?
And do you think omega Shenron can defeat LSS broly?
Omega would have to take Broly out quickly as if the fight drags on the stronger he gets
I just want a super Saiyan five as it has been three decades since super Saiyan four :')
great vid
just imagine if they let xeno goku hit ssj5 and z broly turns lssj5 that would be cool to see.
Let's not forget cc Goku literally got a massive power amp after his fight with dark king Fu with the universe tree which gave him a massive zenkai too when he almost died, I would've been shocked if UI Goku didn't beat xeno Goku after the amp lol
Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker is just SS4 Full Power with a fraction of God Ki.
They didn't have God Ki in Gt it just Saiyan in SS4 Breaking there Limits
It doesn't have god ki
@@kaidenjohnson2624 Xeno Goku has God ki, therefore his version of SSJ4 has God ki
@@Slapnuts9627 1 if he had god ki he wouldn't need the others to power him up 2 I'd SSJ4 limit breaker is a god form how did broly get it
@@kaidenjohnson2624 It's not a God form, non-god forms can have god ki
Really wish vegeta got his tail back in dbs and went towards this route. befitting of a prince keeping his heritage.
I really wanna see SSJ4 done right and made cannon. If they combine the concept of god ki with a saiyan that has a tail, that would be cool
I would like that but at the same time, I don’t want it. S.S.4 works with GrandTour, the story that introduced it was meaningful, it’s a major reason why S.S.4 was incredible.
I can't think of a reason SSJ4 should appear without some major caveat that would feel maybe contrived. I have thought of ways but it would just be the same issue Dragon Ball has had for years. New threat means new form. DBZ, DBGT, and Super all have this issue. Every new threat required a new form
I would've settled for Super making it cannon by giving it to broly....instead we got nice guy with uncontrollable power Broly. Not bad...but we really didn't need a good guy Broly. We have Kale for that.
I would’ve liked if Zeno Gokou & Vegeta had Super Saiyajin 4 God, I think it would’ve been cool.
Not gonna lie ss4 Gogeta and ss4 Vegeta have the coldest hairstyle in Dragonball history
1:29 Vladimir Putin? Damn
That's what I was thinking, I didn't know Putin was in DBZ
putin is the legendary warrior
W Outro 😢😭😭👌
Funny thing is i think they gorgot that xeno goku who turns ssj4 is saiyan beyond goku, because im pretty sure he did go ssg but didnt train with whis or something like that. So this ssj4 awakened ver is beyond ssb of main uni.
I wish i could go back and make it so ss4 limit breaker was SSG. The design just screams pinnacle of saiyan power...especially ancient saiyan power.
S.S.4 Limit Breaker is my favorite look for the form.
The Odd Koolaid Form.
You missed the arrow and the circle in the thumbnail
You should've talked about the concept art for the limit breaker as well. They could've given different routes for the powerup to goku and vegeta
One thing to note, UI is a technique as much as it is a form. SSJ4 Goku could use UI if the writers wanted to push him towards it.
I also believe they chose SSJ 4 Goku and Vegeta because they’re much older and more battle experienced then the DBS goku and vegeta
Yup my thoughts exactly. CC Goku and Vegeta are much younger than Xeno Goku and Vegeta.
I would have given that, or found a way to give that form of SS4 to Vegeta during his personal battle to avenge his death when fighting Frieza's family--as I do agree that Frieza shouldn't have come back. In fact, I would have made that film specifically about Vegeta and perhaps kept Goku out for once while planning for another. The same with Trunks and his return in Super. A spin-off would have been perfect for Trunks, as I would have kept him in the future and the writers handling his character so much better than what we were given then. I mean, in my opinion, Super should have been used as a series to find ways in making the 90s films canon in some way; an example being Turles and Raditz instead of what we were given. But to finally watch someone who's on the same page with me in terms of Dragon Ball and the cash grab chronicles that we were ultimately given. Because no matter what, Super was an insult.
I want this in Sparking Zero especially for both Vegito and gogeta just like Heroes.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
Can you explain xeno goku having ssg?
good video ngl
You say blue and ssj4 are equal in their respective series but when I was scaling gts busting power starting from fusion reborn Goku I got a WOPING 727,061,575,830,000× base and blue scaling off of ssj3 vegetio is a 40,000,000× base
Great video but just to clarify, Xeno Goku and Xeno Vegeta are not Gt Goku and Gt Vegeta, they are Z-movies Goku and Vegeta.
Xeno Goku was the one that fought Garlick Jr., Dr. Willow, Turles, Slug, Cooler, Broly, Janemba, and Hirudegarn, then after being recruited to the Time Patrollers, Xeno Goku went to the Gt timeline to fix a distortion and achieved Super Saiyan 4 after fighting Baby, that is why Xeno Goku is so strong, he faced many more enemies than Super or Gt Goku.
So goku and vegeta needed help to reach this form. But what about broly? He got that power alone just by powering up any idea of is power back than?
What about ssj4 2 from gogeta?
Thanks for mentioning kaioken x 20
I love this form!!!!
Don't hate me for my opinion
But xeno goku actually got nerfed here in against ui goku . Since gt goku learned the movement of master rosi that is similar to UI movement. Yes master rosi created his own UI movement ( proof dbs tournament of power manga ) . So xeno goku has more experience than cc goku so he supposed to know about this movement technique from master rosi and supposed to use it but he didn't. Creator of this promotional anime doesn't want to be hated by super fans .
The fandom is already toxic. If UI goku didn’t stomp gt Goku it would have set fire 😔
This is base off the anime, not the manga. In the anime roshi doesn't use the properties of UI and goku got UI by almost dying so its different
It's similar to how goku learned to combine KK with blue in the anime, but he full mastered and fixed blue stamina issue in the manga (and learned the haki)
Roshi never used a psuedo ultra instinct in GT and ssj4 goku depended on his ki sensing, not anything he learned from Drgaon Ball. Whis is the one who open those doors for ultra instinct. Cc goku actually has experienced a wider set of foes and beat some villians that xeno goku couldnt. He beat final form mira in xenoverse 2, he beat cumber when both ssbkk vegetto and full power ssj4 vegetto couldnt. He beat ssj4 xeno goku during the prison planet arc. It wasnt that xeno goku was nerfed, it's because cc goku is way out of his league
@katherineevangelia9649 Ssj4 Goku just had heightened senses while blind. Even Dbs Gohan in base had heightened senses when blinded by Lavender. Ultra instinct is supposed to be beyond any senses, it's the body moving on its own.
Goku stated against Omega Shenron that he could feel his moves before he could make them. Making it a much more reliable "ultra instinct " of sorts. Also keep in mind his durability GT Goku can get hit by an attack and after that the attack will quite literally not ever work again. I just feel like the Primal form is a much more well rounded and reliable form compared to the Angelic form.
I guess the Super Saiyan 4 tree took over the Super Saiyan Blue’s tree of being the strongest natural Saiyan form, huh?
Edit: for those who are confused, I am referencing a video Saiyan Scholars made about Super Saiyan Blue being the strongest natural Saiyan Form.
No, GT Goku is way older so he SHOULD be stronger, but imagine a SSB Goku after 10 years of training to match GT Gokus age.
@@mushroom11g55 Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker is as strong as Ultra Instinct Sign. Now, before anyone claims that’s because Goku Xeno has a stronger base form, in the SDBH manga, CC Goku and Goku Xeno were even in base to Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan 4 was able to go toe to toe with Super Saiyan Blue. And then Super Saiyan 4: Limit Breaker is able to do the same against Ultra Instinct Sign.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 SBDH is a very unreliable source where everyone is equal because it's a game and they don't want OP characters. And also, UI Omen isn't really that string, it's more about the dodging ability, speed, and Critical Hit Damage. That's why Goku wants to mix UI with SSB instead of just going Omen. Omen Goku has shown no solid proof of being stronger than SSB. For example, he didn't beat Jiren in any beam struggles, he diffused the beams by targeting their weak spot, but he never directly shown RAW POWER feats beyond SSB. He hurt Jiren, because he lands Critical Hits and Perfect Counters. Jiren can see everything that SSB does and brace for impact, but not UI. Although UI Omen beats SSB in a fight, in RAW POWER, SSB is equal or better.
@@mushroom11g55 Super Saiyan Blue is in no way shape or form equal or stronger than Ultra Instinct Sign. Goku in Blue was easily getting his butt whooped by Jiren, but in U.I. Sign, Goku had a much better showing against him in both Speed and Power. During their first fight, Goku and Jiren had that very fast fist exchange and Goku was able to break through and knee him in the stomach and blast him away, something he couldn’t do before achieving U.I.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 bruh 🤦♂️ I SAID RAW POWER, UI OMEN DIDNT HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO BE STRONGER THAN SSB! And I said " UI Omen will beat SSB IN A FIGHT"! By saying this, I'm saying Power is not the only way to win a fight. UI Omen did NOT win any beam struggles that SSB struggled with. UI Omen dealt with beam struggles BY DIFFUSING THEM, NOT OVERPOWERING THEM. UI Omen was working on Jiren, BECAUSE HES A BETTER AND FASTER FIGHTER, and was landing Perfect Counter hits for Crit Damage. It's like a 160 lb bodybuilder vs a 160 lb Bruce Lee. The Bodybuilder might be as strong or stronger, but Bruce Lee will STILL win a fight because he's a better and faster fighter! SSB Goku was landing hits on Jirens Guard, UI Omen Goku was landing hits BEHIND Jirens Guard. It's not power, it's Skill and Speed.
Liked the video, but the only thing I have to say is that xeno goku isn’t gt goku or a version of gt goku necessarily, it’s been stated that he’s just a goku with access to all of gokus forms and powers( at the time which included gt but not super) as he’s pulled from trunks when supreme Kai of time asked him to think of the strongest fighter he knows. If anything he’s a goku that has experienced all the movies with a transformation tree of gt, and CC goku is the same but the transformation tree of super as he also knew movie characters that the main timeline goku does not.
I honestly don't care what new color of the rainbow they decide to come up with for SSJ next, SSJ4 will always be my favorite transformation. UI is admittedly a cool transformation and is one of the most unique concepts to have come out of Super, however I still prefer SSJ4 for not only its design but also for how well it intigrates both concepts of Saiyan evolution into a single form and expands on it. SSJ4 to me symbolizes the ultimate form of Saiyan evolution. Super Saiyan God as a form never made sense to me since it's a form that REQUIRES multiple PURE HEARTED Saiyans to collectively give a single individual their power for them to become a SSJG.
The problem is though that prior to Earth the only pure hearted Saiyan I know about was Gine (Goku's mom) since the Saiyans as a whole weren't exactly a race known for hugs and kisses so the likelihood of there being enough oddball Saiyans and they all happening to end up on the same planet together and just happened to give their energy to 1 of them? Yeah that sounds highly unlikely to me. The only other way to turn SSJG is to be in a realm of the gods for a long period of time in order to absorb god ki and/or develop god ki naturally, and we all know that before Goku and Vegeta that's not happening either. That is why to me SSJG doesn't make any sense nor do I feel like it fits the established lore of the Saiyans.
The reason I think UI works so well in concept is because it's not something that just ANYONE can obtain, you need a certain set of skills in order to even try to achieve it and even then you're not guaranteed to achieve it either since even the God of Destruction couldn't even do it. It's not the sort of form you could simply achieve with tingling back nonsense, no you have to work for it and the results speak for themselves.
I feel like Xeno Goku should at LEAST know Roshi’s version of UI Sign, he has a lot more experience and we know SSJ4 greatly enhances your senses not to mention he saw C.C Goku use UI Sign and AUI multiple times, him not trying to use UI at least once doesn’t feel right to me, even if it was for a brief moment, he should have succeeded in using UI Sign, it would have put Xeno Goku in a unique position as when he gets back to his own timeline he won’t be able to train under Whis, Merus or Grand Priest to further develop UI and would instead have to develop it himself in a way that’s similar to DBS Manga Goku where he uses emotions maybe the next time Xeno Goku & C.C Goku met they could have fought with one using Mastered AUI while the other used True UI + SSJ4 Limit Breaker, it would have been a amazing battle and would make sense.
My thoughts is that Xeno Goku doesn't have that form in his universe as they are separate. He could learn it though
Fwiw the GT gang are older than the Super gang, especially as of when the anime was made
From my thoughts I would still go with SSJG being equal to SSJ4. Part of the reason is because Xeno Goku in base is so much stronger than CC Goku. This lends him quite the edge. Another reason why is because both of these are premier forms for both series. They were never going to let SSJB overpower SSJ4 as both forms are the feature for both, one is what happens when a saiyan gets god ki and the other is when a saiyan reaches their fullest potential using normal ki. Both forms were going to be presented as equal to satisfy fans and to make having two Goku and Vegetas more interesting to watch. Wouldn't have been interesting to see CC Goku dominate every battle while Xeno Goku struggles, much better to see them on equal footing with a few advantages to each version of Goku.
Plus much of SSJ4 Goku advantages come from his additional experience as a fighter. That is shown in GT like when he's blinded. His ability to counter and memorize attacks isn't special to SSJ4, it's how far he's come with martial arts. SSJ4 allows him to access way more power with very little stamina drain. It keeps the body muscular without being overly bulky like with SSJ1 Grade 3.
CC Goku with God ki focuses on how gods use their ki and that never comes from raw power hence the slimming down of the body. Much of the muscle isn't needed to hit as hard as you need to. SSJB of course does add more musculature to the body as a result of it being super saiyan on top of SSJG
Both forms are the ideal form of a saiyan whether it be SSJG/SSJB or SSJ4. Both tie into their history and both represent the different ideals. SSJ4 is when a saiyan masters both super saiyan and their oozaru form and then combine them into one. SSJG is when a saiyan is able to gather enough pure hearted saiyans to perform a ritual. Both are extremely difficult for any saiyan to achieve on their own thanks to the requirements of both
"Monkey :D" sorry I'm silly lol
11:19
I always saw Limit Breaker as GT’s answer to DBS’s Evolution
Edit: Because Death Battle said that SSJ4 Limit Breaker Gogeta and SSB Evolution Gogeta were similar in power in Gogeta vs Vegito
Edit 2: Because of the perspective I saw Limit Breaker and Evolution as a Vegeta thing.
Edit 3: Because of what Death Battle said that SSB Evolution Vegeta easily comparable to SSB Kaioken x20 Goku in Thor vs Vegeta, I just saw Evolution and Limit Breaker as Vegeta’s answer to Goku’s Kaioken
Death battle is just fan speculation. I would never use them to reference anything. Just for entertainment.
@@ThatGuy-en2nn Fair entry
I love Ssj4 and Super saiyan God about the same I’d say
Yeah.. A VERY Dam Odd Form I Mean What Even IS the Lore Behind It Anymore?! Is It Just SS4 Mixed With God Ki? (No Not God Ki As In Mixed With SUPER SAIYAN GOD😒 JUST GOD KI…) Or Is It Just… Idk SS4 Filled To The Brim With Ki Like The Ridiculous Description Said? ( If You Wanna Know What The Hell Im Talking About Just Search Up On Google “ What Is Limit Breaker SS4?“”)….. Yeah Thats Pretty Much All I Have To Ask🗿
Xeno Goku and CC Goku aren’t GT Goku And Super Goku it doesn’t make sense to me Xeno Goku in the video games was wearing the Z Outfit so yea and Super Goku gets ultra instinct from the Moro arc so um yea
Fiction vs reality
Saiyan Scholar, could you give us your input and/or opinion on how strong SSJ4 Limit Breaker Gogeta and Legendary Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker Broly?
Stronger than every Arc before... not as strong as the next Arc threat/hero. That's the typical pattern now
@ thank you so much for this. I remember the first time I watched it, I remarked the same way you did to us in one of your older videos where you were explaining the amplification of SSGSS, exclaiming “good heavens.” 😂
Yes the form is just a recolor, but it being on the more complex SSJ4 is actually fine. It is a great way to bring an older form up to date. As long as the next transformation after it gives more. It honestly gives me SSG vibes, which I truly like that form a lot. And also love how limit breaker is so jacked.
No disrespect but your bias is showing, Limit Breaker & Blue are literally the same level of a recolor no matter how you slice it. It's okay to like one more but also let's be real, Limit Breaker is just a recolor of a fan-favorite form.
LB SS4 has longer hair than the normal version of SS4 as well. I think it's to show the stage up SS2 kind of aesthetic change. Gogeta's version of this form also has super long hair, almost SS3 level long
Majin Salsa and WHO?
In theory god ki should be applicable to all super saiyan forms
Ok, but where is False Super Saiyan?
It’s basically seems like ss4 god
Yosha!!
Nice presentation bro I agree ssj4 =UI not MUI and im okay with this .
We need more Oozaru
Controlled berserk when
It’s the blue evolution version of SS4
I think that if Xeno Goku achieves ssj 5 in Super Dragon ball heroes, then he would be stronger than mui cc goku.
Ss4 should have always had red hair. I would have liked the form better if it did.
Pity we’ll never get ssj5 or 6
There's no need to, since the form is an apex form. All the power brought to the forefront and constantly evolving 🎉
My dear friend, I humbly disagree, the DBH SSJ4 Goku (Xeno) vs TUI Goku does not do justice to end of GT SSJ4 Goku, this is a guy who can tank a Kama bomb in kid base form,
There needs to be a rematch my friend, Supreme Kai is considered to have divine ki however would you say he is stronger and more trained then base GT Goku I think not,
I believe a GT SSJ4 Goku vs SUPER TUI Goku is actually no contest TUI Goku would not be able to harm GT SSJ4 Goku,
It's not about growing up my friend what we have is what we can see at the end of GT because it is always set is the future.
Gt is better than Super I said it.
I choked on my doobie snack when you said Vladimir Putin.
Nah SSJ 4 GOATED. MUI had plot armor
Both have massive amounts of plot armor
Vladimir pudin?
Why does everything sound cooler in Japanese lol
Now, let's bring variations of super sayain 4 into super.
What worng with this from
This form is better and stronger then Gt
Congrats
Ss4 should not be in the same league as blue. Maybe ssgod form.
First