I feel like strictly maintaining EMCON backfires more often than not. I mean there's time and place for EMCON for example when you know you are up against a large surface action group whose missile barrage can easily overwhelm your defences in which case maintaining stealth is crucial for survival. But in this case it allowed the enemy to launch a surprise attack.
The realities of EMCON: damned if you do, damned if you don’t. One of the hardest things to call and easy to backseat or armchair general it. A more general idea is to have a remote asset (like a helo or a Hawkeye) provide some radar at a stand-off if you expect contact; the asset you use as a radar picket is necessarily going to be semi-expendable, since it will likely attract fire as it radiates.
@@zanaduz2018 ??? What dude. The Migs aren't shooting HARMs, they're pinging Sapfir. Turning off air search at point blank range is not debatable, it's just simply the wrong decision.
Some friendly advice... Once you've been fired at, there's no point going back to EMCON - You're not going fast enough to clear the target area once you've been detected. And considering the situation, it could be assumed from the get go that the enemy has a pretty good idea of where you are, so in this type of scenario it's better to have early warning. Also... streaming the tail below the layer when you are escorting surface vessels is less effective as enemy subs are likely to be above the layer to detect your cargo ships. You might catch them if they have to sprint to catch up, which they would do IRL below the layer.... All this is dependent on how accurate to real world SOP the AI behaves.
@@TheAnxiousAardvark he's had the game for weeks before any of us 🙏 i think he had enough time to learn NOT to turn off a radar when something is charging at you full speed
As others point out, EMCON is good when you are unsure about enemy composition, and it is safe. and if you see multiple air contacts closing in, maintaining EMCON is almost like you trying to surrender; it's coming in hot and fast, so might the be enemy; open the radar and fire, and it does not really matter if you turn it off or on again, once you turn it on, it's game on (if modelled in game)
7:18 Pharris burning...and Captain Ed Norris is just standing there calmly on the bridge wing smoking a cigarette. I understand the limitations, but it would be great having active crew animations. Ditto the guy below mentioning Tisdales naval flag.🤨🤨🤨
Wolfpack, have you or any other early testers given any feedback about the damage control simulation in this game? Anything is possible, but one small AshM should not set an American warship steaming in condition I on fire from stem to stern.
Ships can easily be destroyed by a single missile. The Exocets and dumb bomb hits of the Falkland war are a great example of that. Even though the fuses if the Exocets malfunctioned the kinetic energy and leftover propellant was enough to cripple a warship. Dumb bombs also failed to go off because the arming distance was to short for low level attacks against ships. The bombs don't have propellant which can cause fires and they still did critical damage to some ships just from kinetic energy alone. From a gameplay standpoint this damage model is frustrating, but in many cases it seems to be pretty realistic. Many missiles are bigger, heavier, faster and feature a bigger warhead than WW2 battleship maingun shells. Edit: The Mig 23 missile here seems to be a bit to powerful though.
Like I said, anything is possible. I’m not discounting the golden BB or lucky shot that takes out enough DC capacity to lose the ship, but it seems like every ship is totally screwed after a single hit, regardless of the missile. Shipwreck hitting a Knox FF? Sure. I’ll buy that. Not this scenario, though.
Knox class use high-presure steam turbine engine and it's highly explosive when damaged I think. The missile hit directly midship under the funnel so...
@@TamamoF0Xthere should probably be some general damage control systems in addition to the DC Teams. I mean I’ve never worked on a navy ship, and I don’t know for sure how many of the sailors would be knowledgeable enough to form ad-hoc DC teams, but I would think at least one would know how to use a fire extinguisher.
asking a legit question and something I hope mods will address in the future. Most USN ships will have at least 3 DC teams one in Repair 2, Repair 3, and Repair 5. These will be fully manned teams of extremely trained personnel but in addition to these, all sailors will have adequate knowledge of DC methods and can jump into repair teams if necessary to combat losses and in fact most sailors will be in a repair party when in port duty so they are constantly trained to fight fires or stop flooding.
@@randomknight2585 Just like all Marines are riflemen, all sailors are damage controlmen. They have their primary duties but are also all trained to help in a situation where the ship gets hit. Whether that involves helping fight fires, maintaining battle readiness and awareness for another attack, or providing search and rescue/first aid to sailors who are hurt or trapped. This is how the modern US Navy handles it and as far as I know has been since WWII or older.
I really like your playthroughs with commentary. To watch what tasks you are doing with a hint of explanation and what you are thinking is super helpful. Thanks!
Hmmmm... multiple high speed contacts coming my way, what should i do? Ah, yes! EMCOM! Time to loose some ships! Hmmmm... meager radar contact moving 20+ that is 99.9% is enemy, what should i do? Ah yes V-ID it and loose valuable heli! What are you doing? EMCOM at possible incoming missiles and not dropping sonar buoys to let them ID your target. 2 stupidly lost units in 2 engagements that should of been "Don't do stupid and you are fine!".
You... *DO* realize none of this is real, right? That nobody actually died in the video? That's it's all a game, played and then broadcasted merely for entertainment? Go outside and touch grass - You've been cooped up in the basement too long 🙃
First maybe? Been loving all the seapower videos. Super stoked to get my hands on the game and have some fun tinkering with all the different missions!
So nice to see you tackling the missions that came with the game i think they are pretty cool. I hope this means that we will be seeing the one that has the carrier task force going trough Gibraltar!
It's interesting to see some of the bits of randomness. I have seen an earlier vid of another content creator who was not secure with EMCON. They dealt with the Floggers, but were ruined by the missile boats launching from north of the islands. Perhaps they are given waypoints to come south and Wolfpack's pause for the torpedo threat put them way too far ahead of when they would be in position to intercept the convoy. I get that once you know the scenario there are no more surprises, but I wonder if it's right to sweep with radar for a bit while the helos are launching just to have some sort of picture. The Floggers certainly knew to expect the convoy.
EMCON silent is ONLY effective against surface threats because they have similarly ranged radars, and you’ll know before they do (thanks to ESM kit). If there is an air threat, you should always be turning and burning radars because they can know about you hundreds of miles away.
If you look at the after action reports from the Falklands conflict, fire is the biggest danger to ships and has been since the age of sail. The AI seems to concentrate on flooding first, which is not realistic. DC teams would fight fire first. There are so many flammable materials on ships of that period. Wiring... kerosene, oil and lubricant residues in the air conditioning ducts, munitions etc. What SHOULD be possible is to activate the ABC shower (basically a network of nozzles all over the superstructure that creates a cloud of sea water around the ship to wash it) - That would also help fight the fire. It would also look really cool in the game.
The problem with that is that the deck-wash system uses the same pumps as the fire hoses. You're not going to set your decks awash to put out a fire, that's pointless, you'll need every bar of pressure on those hoses to fight the fire.
Not sure if they are working correctly in the game, but going dead in the water should make it easier for a wake-homing torpedo to kill your ship. The wake-homing torpedo detects the disturbance in the water left by a wake long after a ship has passed the position, then follows the disturbance back to its origin. Stopping just means it will get to your current position (the end of the wake disturbance) earlier. Luckily, the sub took its shots at you way too early.
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought it was standard to use the dipping sonar until you had a fix on the the submarine and then time to drop a ring of sonobouys around the the possible contact and then use the MAD or drop the torpedoes. Yeah, I was just a US Army truck driver, but I hung out with enough sailors to pick up a few tips.
One thing I will say here is that the Oliver H. Perry class frigate never saw service with the Koninklijke Marine (Dutch Navy), so the Tisdale flying the Dutch flag is a major inaccuracy.
Fun thing, when I was in the States I saw Dutch flags everywhere. They use them on (mostly) car shops with the word OPEN in black written on the white part. Sombody bought a whole lot of Dutch flags and was like, you know what, we can use these.
Maybe have one ship slightly away from the formation ping for aircraft every now and then? Just scan above the horizon and try to scan for close to the ground with the helicopters?
You're far too used to playing a submarine with your strict adherence to EMCOM. You can't relocate along the Z axis like a sub can, no point to turning it off once you're in missile range. Surface actions are always going to turn into slugging matches, no two ways about it.
It’s almost like that all the ships are just sailing around with none of their watertight doors closed, and as much flammable material left out and open. Damage control teams seem completely ineffective as well.
Is it actually realistic for one missile to then lead to uncontrollable fire spread, a billion secondary explosions etc. Etc. On these newer ships? Are they really prone to that type of stuff and designed with the idea of never getting hit, and if they do, then they are probably done for anyways so why make them capable of surviving a hit? Or is it just the game not really simulating damage control correctly?
Devs aren't happy with the damage at the moment. It's extreme. HOWEVER, in concept, it's not wrong. Modern ships are indeed designed to never be hit in the first place, and while damage control teams are skilled and well-equipped, the likelihood of saving the ship from a major hit is always going to be low, especially compared to the old WWII hulls which were built--and armoured--like tanks.
There is always the chance on any class of ship, in any era for fires to spread in an out of control way. Its is the number one fear among crews. Every crewman on a naval ship is trained in firefighting. There is just a lot of stuff that burns. Navies of course try to keep burnable things to an absolute minimum, but there is hydraulic lines, fuel, ammunition, bedding, electronics, ect ect.
It seems to me damage is way too high right now for most weapons. One of the previous videos where ships were being actually sunk by a single missile intended for AA seemed excessive. It seems like ships are also never just abandoned and burnout to a husk without sinking, everything always sinks it seems. idk, not a huge fan of the damage modeling to this point because yeah, it seems like any hit at all practically cripples the entire ship every time.
I think there is maybe an issue with the AS-7 worth reporting to the devs. Stealth17 did also a scenario with a Spruance DD where one missile hit and the ship went from light damage to a catastrophic loss in minutes. It is a short range missile with a relative small warhead (245lb) and ships that survived hits with Harpoons in other scenarios shouldn't go down after one of these impacted. I could understand that this happens as random event in case of a magazine explosion, but it seems it is reproducible.
Older Knox class Frigates are armed with RIM-7 instead of the CIWS seen on later ones,it might have been better to move it closer to the OHP so it can provide support
I was an HT in the US Navy. Damage Control really needs to get overhauled in this game. There is no reason for some of the ship losses that I see/have experienced in this game!
Wait, you can't use Sonobuoys to detect surface ships anymore? Aww, that seemed extremely useful. Interesting that OHP has a Dutch flag. Also, those fires from USS Pharris spread way too quickly, no way the entire ship could burn down that fast from a single ASM that size.
As far as I know sonar is extremely useful for detecting ships farther away than you can with radar IRL. Obviously, you can't get much information, but you know something is there.
Obviously I haven't played the game yet, but I feel like as soon as you saw those tracks heading towards you with obviously ill intent you should have manually marked them hostile and had the ships go weapons free to let them attack automatically against those targets. Don't quite understand letting them get to like a mile out before doing anything about them, lol.
Are there any naval experts who care to comment on the deadliness of anti-ship missiles and the spread of fire/secondary explosions we see depicted in the Cold War era of Sea Power, and how it would likely compare to the real world in that era? On one hand, we have Sinkex events where it takes a significant number of missiles, bombs, and other munitions to destroy US Navy ships in particular, but I know they're fully prepared before hand, removing as much toxic and flammable materials, and of course, there's no munition stores. On the other hand, they often leave bulkhead doors open and there's no damage control of any kind to fight flooding. For newer ships that those depicted in Sea Power, we also have the incredible endurance, modern build quality/materials, and impressive weight-to-effectiveness ratio we witness for modern warship armor. Despite lacking the traditional heavy steel armor belts and other concepts from WWII ships, with many inches of armor in multiple layers, modern ship armor appears to be quite resilient when considering the massive reduction of pure weight - this is with the one exception of the modernized Iowa class battleships featured in Sea Power. This is then combined with very high quality training regarding fire and damage control for certain navies. Then there's the fact modern anti-ship missiles and the defensive weapons designed to defeat them have both advanced significantly. I guess I question Sea Power's modeling a bit, as it appears a majority of ships will sink with just one missile hit, almost regardless of warhead size. My unprofessional guess is that the 1980's era ships in Sea Power likely had at least a little bit better survivability. Then, regarding present-day modern defense systems (Aegis and accompanying weapon systems such as: SM-2/SM-3/SM-6/ESSM/RIM-116 RAM/CIWS/SeaRAM/autocannons/127mm or 76mm cannons/chaff/flares/electronic warfare), I believe it would be significantly more difficult to hit a modern-day warship, at least the designs which are several decades beyond Sea Power's era. I'm excluding the Moskva and Russian Navy training from this particular question/evaluation. Apparently the systems on that ship were half broken/faulty and Russian Navy crews don't have the greatest reputations. Meanwhile, we see the US Navy shooting down hundreds of targets collectively over the past year or so. I imagine the more modern designs of present-day ships allow for better protection and isolation of munitions/magazines, plus improved bulkhead design and automated fire suppression systems to isolate the spread of fire, added to quality crew training, resulting in modern warships being both more difficult to hit in the first place, and notably more resilient to being entirely knocked-out/sunk if they were hit, in comparison to the ships and era depicted in Sea Power. I'd love to hear from someone who is highly educated or experienced on this topic though.
If you can do a video with the USS Connole involved (FFG-1056) that would be awesome, that’s the ship my father served on from 1970-75 it was classified DE before FFG
Not sure why you're often sailing blind and have an aversion to using radar. Surface combatants rarely turn off their primary radar(s). You've been surprised in a few videos when you energized equipment and found incoming aircraft or missiles.
Having watched a few of these on the channel. Is the damage model sort of messed up, or will a single missile strike destroy any ship due to massive compounding damage?
I generally love your vids, but this one was honestly frustrating and I am not gonna watch this one fully. Why are we turning of radar when you are literally under attack? Turning on air search radar on both ships should've been the call. Maybe even pausing the game and manually identifying the contacts as hostile as you had 0 friendlies in the area and they where clearly on an attack path.
I'm glad the game has finally dropped so I can actually play it instead of watching content creators kill everyone under their command through negligence
Damn, I don't know but it seems missiles are way too OP (at this version) at least.. one missile always cripple a ship trough fires or sheer damage.. probably they will fix this when the game releases
At least this is early access and they'll probably be changing their damage model before full release (at least they should be) it feels like if the ship gets hit with seagull shit it's going down at this point.
And the game is OUT! LET'S GO! Sadly I am too broke to buy it now, and will be in the hospital for 2 months starting December, so hope there will be more videos!
Active radar also betrays your presence to other platforms beyond its own effective range. They may be too far away for an effective signal return for you to see them but they will definitely pick up that you are out there. Might not know who or what you are but they'll know something is out there.
No, it would lose guidance and the controls would stop adjusting course to stay on target. It is a radio beam-riding missile and the pilot has to stay on a course toward the target to maintain guidance making the attacking aircraft extremely vulnerable. Also think they have to attack from some altitude to properly guide the missile. They would be terrible anti-ship weapons against targets with air defenses.
I'm just wondering, is the Mig-23s missile that powerful enough to really damage that heavily a frigate sized ship? I think this one thing that sea power developers need to review and added to their patches for the game.
Hey ! I like your video but i have one question regarding those scenario : the lack of civilian ships and plane. One of the main challenge in a "modern" confrontation would be the hight number of civilian ships and plane, crusing everywhere. Is it "too heavy" for the game to handle to much civilian traffic ?
So when Pharris sank, did we lose her helo, or can you send it to hotbunk on Tisdales heli-pad???? I remember in Harpoon, you could salvage aircrews/airships that way.
Kind of curious what was up the with AI of that last missile boat. Does the AI actually "dock" like that or did it just path into shallow water and get stuck?
Surface ships seem a way too squishy in this game. USS Stark, USS Samuel B Roberts, USS Liberty, and USS Cole all got hit way harder than USS Pharris IRL without sinking.
I feel like strictly maintaining EMCON backfires more often than not. I mean there's time and place for EMCON for example when you know you are up against a large surface action group whose missile barrage can easily overwhelm your defences in which case maintaining stealth is crucial for survival. But in this case it allowed the enemy to launch a surprise attack.
EMCON is good.
Not radiating when an enemy air attack is almost within visual range isn’t EMCON, it’s just suicidal.
I thought Wolfpack was doing it kinda intentionally to show off exciting high-risk situations.
@@mumblerinc.6660 Yeah, but how do you know something is attacking if you don't use the radar?
The realities of EMCON: damned if you do, damned if you don’t. One of the hardest things to call and easy to backseat or armchair general it.
A more general idea is to have a remote asset (like a helo or a Hawkeye) provide some radar at a stand-off if you expect contact; the asset you use as a radar picket is necessarily going to be semi-expendable, since it will likely attract fire as it radiates.
@@zanaduz2018 ??? What dude.
The Migs aren't shooting HARMs, they're pinging Sapfir. Turning off air search at point blank range is not debatable, it's just simply the wrong decision.
Some friendly advice... Once you've been fired at, there's no point going back to EMCON - You're not going fast enough to clear the target area once you've been detected. And considering the situation, it could be assumed from the get go that the enemy has a pretty good idea of where you are, so in this type of scenario it's better to have early warning. Also... streaming the tail below the layer when you are escorting surface vessels is less effective as enemy subs are likely to be above the layer to detect your cargo ships. You might catch them if they have to sprint to catch up, which they would do IRL below the layer.... All this is dependent on how accurate to real world SOP the AI behaves.
I agree
going EMCON when those MiG-23s got that close was an interesting choice ngl
Yeah, no clue what the plan was there. I feel common sense was just thrown out the windows
@@andrewruss5824 Suspect it's part of the learning curve, and getting used to a new game and sensors.
@@TheAnxiousAardvark he's had the game for weeks before any of us 🙏 i think he had enough time to learn NOT to turn off a radar when something is charging at you full speed
As others point out, EMCON is good when you are unsure about enemy composition, and it is safe. and if you see multiple air contacts closing in, maintaining EMCON is almost like you trying to surrender; it's coming in hot and fast, so might the be enemy; open the radar and fire, and it does not really matter if you turn it off or on again, once you turn it on, it's game on (if modelled in game)
I was on a Knox class frigate in the eighties and I went to Narvik, Norway. What a trip to watch this video.
I can't wait for this game to come out tomorrow. I'm so freaking excited lol
7:18 Pharris burning...and Captain Ed Norris is just standing there calmly on the bridge wing smoking a cigarette. I understand the limitations, but it would be great having active crew animations.
Ditto the guy below mentioning Tisdales naval flag.🤨🤨🤨
Morris 😊
@@peterdavid5034 mis-type...ooops
Wolfpack, have you or any other early testers given any feedback about the damage control simulation in this game? Anything is possible, but one small AshM should not set an American warship steaming in condition I on fire from stem to stern.
From the videos I've seen it feels as if surface ships are too fragile. I don't think I've seen a frigate nor destroyer take a hit and survive.
Ships can easily be destroyed by a single missile. The Exocets and dumb bomb hits of the Falkland war are a great example of that. Even though the fuses if the Exocets malfunctioned the kinetic energy and leftover propellant was enough to cripple a warship. Dumb bombs also failed to go off because the arming distance was to short for low level attacks against ships. The bombs don't have propellant which can cause fires and they still did critical damage to some ships just from kinetic energy alone.
From a gameplay standpoint this damage model is frustrating, but in many cases it seems to be pretty realistic. Many missiles are bigger, heavier, faster and feature a bigger warhead than WW2 battleship maingun shells.
Edit: The Mig 23 missile here seems to be a bit to powerful though.
Like I said, anything is possible. I’m not discounting the golden BB or lucky shot that takes out enough DC capacity to lose the ship, but it seems like every ship is totally screwed after a single hit, regardless of the missile. Shipwreck hitting a Knox FF? Sure. I’ll buy that. Not this scenario, though.
The devs have stated that they'll work on it. Surface ships are too fragile atm
Damage Control is the problem. A single AShM should be able to take a ship down without DC, but with DC it should be a lot harder
Why do destroyers have only 1 DC team? And why do fires spread much? For reference, USS Stark was hit by 2 missiles, and survived.
Knox class use high-presure steam turbine engine and it's highly explosive when damaged I think. The missile hit directly midship under the funnel so...
It because DC team focus on flooding first, this allows the fire to spread to the rest of the ship and killing it.
@@TamamoF0Xthere should probably be some general damage control systems in addition to the DC Teams. I mean I’ve never worked on a navy ship, and I don’t know for sure how many of the sailors would be knowledgeable enough to form ad-hoc DC teams, but I would think at least one would know how to use a fire extinguisher.
asking a legit question and something I hope mods will address in the future. Most USN ships will have at least 3 DC teams one in Repair 2, Repair 3, and Repair 5. These will be fully manned teams of extremely trained personnel but in addition to these, all sailors will have adequate knowledge of DC methods and can jump into repair teams if necessary to combat losses and in fact most sailors will be in a repair party when in port duty so they are constantly trained to fight fires or stop flooding.
@@randomknight2585 Just like all Marines are riflemen, all sailors are damage controlmen. They have their primary duties but are also all trained to help in a situation where the ship gets hit. Whether that involves helping fight fires, maintaining battle readiness and awareness for another attack, or providing search and rescue/first aid to sailors who are hurt or trapped. This is how the modern US Navy handles it and as far as I know has been since WWII or older.
I read all of RSR recently, to see USS Pharris is great lol.
"Hammer 'em!"
I was about to sleep but you give me another reason not...
I really like your playthroughs with commentary. To watch what tasks you are doing with a hint of explanation and what you are thinking is super helpful. Thanks!
I was never into naval combat, but Sea Power and Coldwaters played by Wolfpack is on a whole other level! Love it!
RIP Pharris, Red Storm Rising moment.
Hmmmm... multiple high speed contacts coming my way, what should i do? Ah, yes! EMCOM! Time to loose some ships!
Hmmmm... meager radar contact moving 20+ that is 99.9% is enemy, what should i do? Ah yes V-ID it and loose valuable heli!
What are you doing? EMCOM at possible incoming missiles and not dropping sonar buoys to let them ID your target. 2 stupidly lost units in 2 engagements that should of been "Don't do stupid and you are fine!".
You... *DO* realize none of this is real, right? That nobody actually died in the video? That's it's all a game, played and then broadcasted merely for entertainment?
Go outside and touch grass - You've been cooped up in the basement too long 🙃
First maybe?
Been loving all the seapower videos. Super stoked to get my hands on the game and have some fun tinkering with all the different missions!
I just can't get enough of your Sea Power vids! Thanks for being so awesome, WolfPack!
So nice to see you tackling the missions that came with the game i think they are pretty cool. I hope this means that we will be seeing the one that has the carrier task force going trough Gibraltar!
That EMCOM swagger is top tier, Wolfpack. You are never going to live this one down, buddy lol
It's interesting to see some of the bits of randomness. I have seen an earlier vid of another content creator who was not secure with EMCON. They dealt with the Floggers, but were ruined by the missile boats launching from north of the islands. Perhaps they are given waypoints to come south and Wolfpack's pause for the torpedo threat put them way too far ahead of when they would be in position to intercept the convoy.
I get that once you know the scenario there are no more surprises, but I wonder if it's right to sweep with radar for a bit while the helos are launching just to have some sort of picture. The Floggers certainly knew to expect the convoy.
EMCON silent is ONLY effective against surface threats because they have similarly ranged radars, and you’ll know before they do (thanks to ESM kit).
If there is an air threat, you should always be turning and burning radars because they can know about you hundreds of miles away.
If you look at the after action reports from the Falklands conflict, fire is the biggest danger to ships and has been since the age of sail. The AI seems to concentrate on flooding first, which is not realistic. DC teams would fight fire first. There are so many flammable materials on ships of that period. Wiring... kerosene, oil and lubricant residues in the air conditioning ducts, munitions etc. What SHOULD be possible is to activate the ABC shower (basically a network of nozzles all over the superstructure that creates a cloud of sea water around the ship to wash it) - That would also help fight the fire. It would also look really cool in the game.
The problem with that is that the deck-wash system uses the same pumps as the fire hoses. You're not going to set your decks awash to put out a fire, that's pointless, you'll need every bar of pressure on those hoses to fight the fire.
Just downloaded and played my first mission of Sea Power - absolutely fantastic
Loved the helicopter landing and seeing the deck all lit up, I’d really enjoy more night missions 😁
Its my first comment on a video of your channel and i must say its always a blessing everytime you upload a video thank you !
Nice to see variation in dialogue
6:23 That was a cool callout, really love that
The whole EMCOM thing doesn't really work out great, Blasting the radar to see and intercept earlier might just be the better thing atm.
Finally, someone gave him criticism on it in a constructive, calm manner... 🙃
Not sure if they are working correctly in the game, but going dead in the water should make it easier for a wake-homing torpedo to kill your ship. The wake-homing torpedo detects the disturbance in the water left by a wake long after a ship has passed the position, then follows the disturbance back to its origin. Stopping just means it will get to your current position (the end of the wake disturbance) earlier. Luckily, the sub took its shots at you way too early.
Those landing lights really show the devs attention to detail!
Tomorrow's the day we have been waiting for
im so excited ive been waiting for 3 years
@@hupreix2553 same dude.
Shi gonna be exciting tomorrow!
So excited for this game, getting all my college work done rn so I can have a free day to play this tomorrow!
More uboat and scramble when you get a chance thank you for all your work!!! ❤
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought it was standard to use the dipping sonar until you had a fix on the the submarine and then time to drop a ring of sonobouys around the the possible contact and then use the MAD or drop the torpedoes.
Yeah, I was just a US Army truck driver, but I hung out with enough sailors to pick up a few tips.
I don't know what doctrine says, but I don't think the Sea Sprite helicopter had dipping sonar. So buoys and the MAD are its only options here.
Love to see Denmark represented, we often get overlooked in videogames
One thing I will say here is that the Oliver H. Perry class frigate never saw service with the Koninklijke Marine (Dutch Navy), so the Tisdale flying the Dutch flag is a major inaccuracy.
Noticed that myself.😂😂😂 Must be the Tisdale-oorp.
i kinda justify it in my head as an emergency ship transfer/order since the cold war is going hot in this game
Another historical inaccuracy is that the Cold War never went hot x
I also noticed the Dutch flag, but I think there's some orange writing on it so it might be a different flag?
Fun thing, when I was in the States I saw Dutch flags everywhere. They use them on (mostly) car shops with the word OPEN in black written on the white part. Sombody bought a whole lot of Dutch flags and was like, you know what, we can use these.
the harpoon knows where it is at all times
It knows this because it knows where it isn't
Good job with the editing there.
This is the same mission as in the old Harpoon Classic? Nice!
It's not luck, you went EMCON while the enemy was aware of your position, you need the sensors to defend yourself buddy
This man should sell a t-shirt that reads ' ALL AHEAD FLANK'
Maybe have one ship slightly away from the formation ping for aircraft every now and then? Just scan above the horizon and try to scan for close to the ground with the helicopters?
You're far too used to playing a submarine with your strict adherence to EMCOM. You can't relocate along the Z axis like a sub can, no point to turning it off once you're in missile range. Surface actions are always going to turn into slugging matches, no two ways about it.
HAHAHA that reaction to the popup at the end, my reaction too
I still believe that fires spread way to much currently
It’s almost like that all the ships are just sailing around with none of their watertight doors closed, and as much flammable material left out and open. Damage control teams seem completely ineffective as well.
Is it actually realistic for one missile to then lead to uncontrollable fire spread, a billion secondary explosions etc. Etc. On these newer ships? Are they really prone to that type of stuff and designed with the idea of never getting hit, and if they do, then they are probably done for anyways so why make them capable of surviving a hit? Or is it just the game not really simulating damage control correctly?
Devs aren't happy with the damage at the moment. It's extreme.
HOWEVER, in concept, it's not wrong. Modern ships are indeed designed to never be hit in the first place, and while damage control teams are skilled and well-equipped, the likelihood of saving the ship from a major hit is always going to be low, especially compared to the old WWII hulls which were built--and armoured--like tanks.
There is always the chance on any class of ship, in any era for fires to spread in an out of control way. Its is the number one fear among crews. Every crewman on a naval ship is trained in firefighting. There is just a lot of stuff that burns. Navies of course try to keep burnable things to an absolute minimum, but there is hydraulic lines, fuel, ammunition, bedding, electronics, ect ect.
It seems to me damage is way too high right now for most weapons. One of the previous videos where ships were being actually sunk by a single missile intended for AA seemed excessive. It seems like ships are also never just abandoned and burnout to a husk without sinking, everything always sinks it seems. idk, not a huge fan of the damage modeling to this point because yeah, it seems like any hit at all practically cripples the entire ship every time.
Damage seems to be way too high. Right now it feels like playing as the Imperial Japanese Navy lol
Moskva?
I think there is maybe an issue with the AS-7 worth reporting to the devs. Stealth17 did also a scenario with a Spruance DD where one missile hit and the ship went from light damage to a catastrophic loss in minutes. It is a short range missile with a relative small warhead (245lb) and ships that survived hits with Harpoons in other scenarios shouldn't go down after one of these impacted. I could understand that this happens as random event in case of a magazine explosion, but it seems it is reproducible.
Older Knox class Frigates are armed with RIM-7 instead of the CIWS seen on later ones,it might have been better to move it closer to the OHP so it can provide support
I was an HT in the US Navy. Damage Control really needs to get overhauled in this game. There is no reason for some of the ship losses that I see/have experienced in this game!
"Track 7005, Is History!" Operation Flashpoint for the win
Please make more U-Boat videos, I absolutely fell in love with that game
Those mig-23 are OP I also saw a stealth17 video where the ships got sunk with only one missle cuz of fires
Wait, you can't use Sonobuoys to detect surface ships anymore? Aww, that seemed extremely useful. Interesting that OHP has a Dutch flag.
Also, those fires from USS Pharris spread way too quickly, no way the entire ship could burn down that fast from a single ASM that size.
As far as I know sonar is extremely useful for detecting ships farther away than you can with radar IRL. Obviously, you can't get much information, but you know something is there.
Thanks this was very enjoyable.
That command guidance Kerry got extremely lucky taking out Pharris, I wonder if taking out its launching Flogger eariler would have helped
Obviously I haven't played the game yet, but I feel like as soon as you saw those tracks heading towards you with obviously ill intent you should have manually marked them hostile and had the ships go weapons free to let them attack automatically against those targets. Don't quite understand letting them get to like a mile out before doing anything about them, lol.
Are there any naval experts who care to comment on the deadliness of anti-ship missiles and the spread of fire/secondary explosions we see depicted in the Cold War era of Sea Power, and how it would likely compare to the real world in that era?
On one hand, we have Sinkex events where it takes a significant number of missiles, bombs, and other munitions to destroy US Navy ships in particular, but I know they're fully prepared before hand, removing as much toxic and flammable materials, and of course, there's no munition stores. On the other hand, they often leave bulkhead doors open and there's no damage control of any kind to fight flooding.
For newer ships that those depicted in Sea Power, we also have the incredible endurance, modern build quality/materials, and impressive weight-to-effectiveness ratio we witness for modern warship armor. Despite lacking the traditional heavy steel armor belts and other concepts from WWII ships, with many inches of armor in multiple layers, modern ship armor appears to be quite resilient when considering the massive reduction of pure weight - this is with the one exception of the modernized Iowa class battleships featured in Sea Power. This is then combined with very high quality training regarding fire and damage control for certain navies. Then there's the fact modern anti-ship missiles and the defensive weapons designed to defeat them have both advanced significantly.
I guess I question Sea Power's modeling a bit, as it appears a majority of ships will sink with just one missile hit, almost regardless of warhead size. My unprofessional guess is that the 1980's era ships in Sea Power likely had at least a little bit better survivability. Then, regarding present-day modern defense systems (Aegis and accompanying weapon systems such as: SM-2/SM-3/SM-6/ESSM/RIM-116 RAM/CIWS/SeaRAM/autocannons/127mm or 76mm cannons/chaff/flares/electronic warfare), I believe it would be significantly more difficult to hit a modern-day warship, at least the designs which are several decades beyond Sea Power's era.
I'm excluding the Moskva and Russian Navy training from this particular question/evaluation. Apparently the systems on that ship were half broken/faulty and Russian Navy crews don't have the greatest reputations. Meanwhile, we see the US Navy shooting down hundreds of targets collectively over the past year or so.
I imagine the more modern designs of present-day ships allow for better protection and isolation of munitions/magazines, plus improved bulkhead design and automated fire suppression systems to isolate the spread of fire, added to quality crew training, resulting in modern warships being both more difficult to hit in the first place, and notably more resilient to being entirely knocked-out/sunk if they were hit, in comparison to the ships and era depicted in Sea Power.
I'd love to hear from someone who is highly educated or experienced on this topic though.
I think this is the only video I heard him swear the most :DDDD
Lost 2 Sea Sprites. One was from the Pharris Knox class. I was wondering what happens to helos , or other aircraft, when their ship is destroyed.
Developers have already stated they're not happy with how damage and damage control works currently. A rework is planned.
EMCON when enemies are in visual range...
Poor Old USS Pharris, Always being damaged, At least in Red Storm she wasn't sunk.
If you can do a video with the USS Connole involved (FFG-1056) that would be awesome, that’s the ship my father served on from 1970-75 it was classified DE before FFG
Not sure why you're often sailing blind and have an aversion to using radar. Surface combatants rarely turn off their primary radar(s). You've been surprised in a few videos when you energized equipment and found incoming aircraft or missiles.
OHP and Knox! Still in frontline service today here in Taiwanese Navy... Old, but hard working!
last year i visited Navik by night train, can't wait for this video :)
This game is going to be so good in 6 months.
I love videos like this
now that the game is out, if you could upload the missions you've created/played, that would be amazing ! (kirov supremacy comes to mind) thanks !!
Having watched a few of these on the channel. Is the damage model sort of messed up, or will a single missile strike destroy any ship due to massive compounding damage?
I generally love your vids, but this one was honestly frustrating and I am not gonna watch this one fully.
Why are we turning of radar when you are literally under attack? Turning on air search radar on both ships should've been the call. Maybe even pausing the game and manually identifying the contacts as hostile as you had 0 friendlies in the area and they where clearly on an attack path.
This scenario is very similar to the scenario in the pc version of Harpoon. In that scenario though the second ship was a Royal Navy type 22 frigate..
I'm glad the game has finally dropped so I can actually play it instead of watching content creators kill everyone under their command through negligence
Damn, I don't know but it seems missiles are way too OP (at this version) at least.. one missile always cripple a ship trough fires or sheer damage.. probably they will fix this when the game releases
5:20 Looks like chaff never went off.
I wonder if the ship names and number can be changed to historical accuracy. My favorite is the Halsey Frigate named after Admiral Halsey.
Ha USS Pharris! CPT Morris's ship from Clancy's Red Storm Rising! lol
At least this is early access and they'll probably be changing their damage model before full release (at least they should be) it feels like if the ship gets hit with seagull shit it's going down at this point.
USS Pharris makes me thinking about Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy
Dang those Wake homers are scary!!!!
I think you made a typo in your title; the thumbnail says "Gauntlet," but the video title says "Gauntlent."
Edit: it's fixed now
Is it wise to go emcon when the enemy knows where you are?
And the game is OUT! LET'S GO!
Sadly I am too broke to buy it now, and will be in the hospital for 2 months starting December, so hope there will be more videos!
😥 Hope you get better soon bro
I can't wait till tomorrow when we can finally bag this game.
Please explain to me as i am new to naval simulators. What is the point of not using your radars if you can't see incoming threats?
A radar is like a flashlight, it helps you see, but anyone with eyes will know where you are when you use it.
Everything your radar hits can tell when they are lit up by radar and where it came from
Active radar also betrays your presence to other platforms beyond its own effective range. They may be too far away for an effective signal return for you to see them but they will definitely pick up that you are out there. Might not know who or what you are but they'll know something is out there.
The kh23 missile fired from mig23 earlier in the video should have lost its lock the moment mig23 got destroyed. This is how kh23 works
Where did you get that info? (not questioning it but im interested to know.)
@@av812bb Kh-23 is manually guided by the pilot, like a Bullpup
@@WeGoToMars but if its already aimed at target wont it keep going towards it?
No, it would lose guidance and the controls would stop adjusting course to stay on target. It is a radio beam-riding missile and the pilot has to stay on a course toward the target to maintain guidance making the attacking aircraft extremely vulnerable. Also think they have to attack from some altitude to properly guide the missile. They would be terrible anti-ship weapons against targets with air defenses.
I'm just wondering, is the Mig-23s missile that powerful enough to really damage that heavily a frigate sized ship? I think this one thing that sea power developers need to review and added to their patches for the game.
That hurts. I served on a Knox class frigate.
Damage control in this game seems pointless I have not seen a ship fail to go down from a single missile hit yet.
Hey ! I like your video but i have one question regarding those scenario : the lack of civilian ships and plane. One of the main challenge in a "modern" confrontation would be the hight number of civilian ships and plane, crusing everywhere. Is it "too heavy" for the game to handle to much civilian traffic ?
if these are combat conditions you are traveling under all bulkhead doors should have been closed and dogged down tight
Well, sailing out with the Pharris was just asking for bad luck!
So when Pharris sank, did we lose her helo, or can you send it to hotbunk on Tisdales heli-pad???? I remember in Harpoon, you could salvage aircrews/airships that way.
Does the game provide the effectiveness of the sonobuoys after they're dropped. Direct path or Convergence Zone ranges?
looks strange but there were no flank attacks or attacks from the rear during the entire time...each mission - front attack.
Kind of curious what was up the with AI of that last missile boat. Does the AI actually "dock" like that or did it just path into shallow water and get stuck?
Losing Pharris... ouch. The Hammer will not be pleased.
How's the game so far? I am looking forward to getting this game.
Surface ships seem a way too squishy in this game. USS Stark, USS Samuel B Roberts, USS Liberty, and USS Cole all got hit way harder than USS Pharris IRL without sinking.
Why is Tisdale flying the Dutch flag?
Also losing Pharris to a single AS-7 seems bullshit lmao
I My humble opinion no way would that happen on a combat mission.
Would be cool if you could do some missions without knowing how many enemy ships there are... maybe prepared by someone else