Helmets: The Armet
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Today we take a look at my second favorite helmet, the armet; from its early form in the beginning of the 15th century to the most typical late 15th century styling.
1403 Effigy depicting an armet in Italy in the style of the CH57:
effigiesandbrasses.com/5630/20...
Reproduction armet purchased from Matul's:
www.matuls.pl/index.php?Lng=en
Detailed Photo Album of the Reproduction:
media/set/?s...
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#medievalarmor #livinghistory #armet
"Caving in his buddy's face with a pole axe," I'm pretty sure that buddies don't do that to each other.
+Mason Rudesheim Maybe they weren't very close. :)
True, very true.
tis just a prank, brethren
You sure about that buddy?
"I can't believe you've done this!"
I think people often forget, or just don't think about, when bringing up scenarios on how armor can be defeated, is the fact that although your armor has weaknesses, so does your opponent's armor. And being competent knights or men-at-arms, you both know your armor's weaknesses, and defend against them being exploited, while trying to exploit the other's weaknesses. Just like any other fight.
+The Devil Precisely.
+Knyght Errant Somehow I doubt that in most cases you'd spend too much time focusing on the other bloke's armor and its (particular) weaknesses. You don't have time for that in a big brawl. If you were GoT-style dueling and you had time to break apart and circle, then yeah. But really you'd rely on techniques which would work against any armor configuration or at least the majority of them.
Also, tehre probably weren't as many varieties of helmet at that time. We can look in history books and see thousands of different helmet designs, but only a few were probably in fashion in one area of the world, at one time, in one certain conflict. So when armets were popular, you might be taught by your instructor what the weaknesses of armets are and that would be it. You wouldn't be looking at it and saying "Hmmm, that's an armet, isn't it? What was I told about armets?" You're probably more interested in the state of his visor and his weapon.
These are logical guesses supported by zero real-world experience, near-zero theoretical experience, and zero historical sources other than RUclips videos. Please correct me if (when) I'm wrong.
That's part of the whole "armor isn't amazing" debunk. People often forget anyone with the money to afford one of these suits is going to be trained and prepared for a fight
I like what you said, that armor isn't invulnerable, but most people don't realize that armor would greatly reduce a person's chances of dying.
Look at modern helmets, they don't prevent you from being shot straight in the face but greatly reduce chances from being shot in the head
@@realdragon just that modern helmets dont "greatly reduce" chances from being shot in the head.. what are you talking about.. When a modern helmet stops a bullet, it is considered a "freak happening", what usually happens is that you get your head blown off anyway..
@@Trikipum What I mean is helmets save lives and they always did
I came here after watching Lindybeige’s video about his sallet/armet frankenarmor. I like this video better, it has sources.
Exhaustive, crystal clear explanations, no sparing on the details, it's perfect! Everything any curious soul could ask for, ty buddy \o
The funniest description of fate aligning for an armor failure. . . LOL!!!
"The Moon is in the Seventh House, and Jupiter is aligned with Mars"
Priceless. . .
I always love those little details that tell a story, like the extra plate at 13:50
It shows that getting your forehead caved in was at least a reasonable enough danger to warrant the expense and weight of adding another plate.
What people often seem to forget is that every bit of these design evolutions is a response to some problem that the wearer would face. It is not a haphazard process, but somebody paying a lot of money for a vital piece of protective equipement.
The picket fence is pretty useful. You could impale a small piece of fruit on it for a handy snack.
Nothing beats a bevor full of jelly babies.
(actually, hot weather and/or forgetting them does)
You know what i like more than helmets? Knowledge. I mean like seriously look at those books
beautiful helmets, proably my favourite design with the sallet + visor as a close second place
Not gonna, lie, those teeth make that Armet look badass.
The thorough discussion of armor designs overall and specific components, really gives me a great appreciation of the maker's skills. Really amazing. Keep up the excellent work!
Best quality armour videos on the net, hands down. Production and information quality is perfectly delivered. Its really a shame, you should have as many views as Matt at least. I guess armour isn't as sexy a topic as swords.
+Battam
Dude, he's not that well known yet, give it some time.
When I subscribed to him, he only had 5k subscribers, now he has double that.
Heck, when I subscribed to Matt, he had 30k subscribers, now he has triple!
Also, Ian tends to make relatively long and scholarly videos, which tends to put off some people.
+Battam Spread the word, the more this stuff gets shared around, the more it helps! :) I certainly appreciate it! Yeah, I have kind of chosen a very niche area to drone on about, so I never expected the wide appeal of say a Lindybeige or Skallagrim, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised one day. I'll keep making videos as long as people keep finding them useful! I find it hard to make short videos on these topics because there's so much information and I don't want people to draw bizarre conclusions or misunderstand what I say so I try to get as much detail out as I can. Unfortunately, a lot of people see a 25 or 30 min video and go somewhere else, but I feel like I would be doing a disservice to some of these topics by cutting them too short. Thank you for your support!
Subbed last night, Thought I would post today:
My major was history, minor was anthro(archaeology focus), and you sir would do well teaching at a collegiate level if you do not already. Your videos are well made, historically grounded, but also engaging and entertaining, and layed out in an expected and welcomed format.
My interest was far more into nautical and mairtime topics, and I've recently begun putting together a roughly 16th century harness(unfortunately I'm having to make some concessions, as the armor is being used in SCA combat), and have found what you're presenting very helpful.
So thanks, and I will be following you long term.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad that you're finding the content so enjoyable and helpful!
I second that! I also just subscribed. I am a 58 year old history nut and I find these videos fascinating and well done. I wish history classes in college were that well presented. Attendance would have been much better.
I get excited everytime I see you've made a video and I've been looking forward to an armet video in particular. Thanks for all your hard work. Your armor videos are the best on youtube.
+jaysbob Thank you!
Thank you for this incredible series.
That helmet looks friggin' awesome.
I like the way you present the evolution of the armour and I simply can't help marvelling at the beautiful design of the helmets. Great work!
This is a really great and informative video. Love the design of this helmet, both aesthetically and practically.
My favorite helmets! I literally did not even know that these existed until I watched this a while back.
This was an insanely good video. Answered all of my questions. Thank you!
Thank you for going to so much effort dude. The amount of detail in your videos is amazing!
Thank you, and you're very welcome!
6:11 I believe the technical term for this faceplate design is called the _toilet bowl_ design. The one you own is known as a _picket fence toilet bowl_ armet.
I love this style of helmet. Great video!
I really appreciate these informative videos. Very inspiring
Highest quality of research and presentation about medieval equipment on RUclips. Amazing!
Thank you very much!
Great video.
Seconding an episode on the sallet.
Nicely done. Thanks for another great video.
Great video, as always. Lots of stuff I didn't know about. I'd love to see you compare the armet with the later similar-looking but distinct close helm.
your videos really help man, I'm learning a lot
With these restrictive helmets, I suspect that you'd be raising visors / opening plates pretty much immediately after the lance charge is resolved, especially if you're in any kind of melee.
+Michael Eversberg II That is what a lot of period sources suggest. The sallet + bevor combo is good for this too since you can tilt it back a little.
+DushinSC Indeed Kaptein! An added bonus is that the tilted sallet acts as a brim, protecting the "exposed" face from downwards attacks from above. Kinda like the brims of some of the Hellenistic "Thracian" style helmets, which I really like :)
DushinSC
I figure this was the norm with those big barrel helms over the sallet, as well - especially with the chain. As soon as you're past all the lances, off that thing comes. If it goes to the ground, oh well, get a new one later.
+Michael Eversberg II You'd be surprised actually. I've been doing some work with a HEMA group and it's amazing how many techniques don't require you to see very much.
It's not so much vision as breathing. People tend to underestimate the effect of rebreathing your own co2. Considering fitness is largely about being more efficient with oxygen, a lower % of it is pretty much a direct reduction to your cardio.
Amazing videos, keep them coming!
Thank you so much for these videos... Also, love that Razer Blade (laptop) that you have. I've done some repairs on one before and got to play around with it, and they're probably the nicest laptop I've ever seen.
A very good an informative video. Great work!
23:00, you mention that the holes wouldn’t be as effective at reinforcing the picket fence as a solid plate, but I feel like the combined strength of the pickets and holes together would probably make up for that, being at least as strong together as a solid plate would be.
Superb video sir.
Cool that you actually wore the helmet, nice video
Great video, as always.^^
I find the sound quality through your bucket remarkable.
I'd love to see a video on the close helm.
GC Knives ikr
Another great video.
Great work Ian. Could you ever make one about the feathers and the crests in the helms? I just cant figure out how crests are put toguether over the helm.
So amazing to see the way the cheek plates just open up like that in order to don the armet! Until seeing it, didn't realise that I truly hadn't thought about how those guys managed to get their heads INSIDE their very close-fitting helms! 🤦🏻♀️ Just demonstrates the huge value of 3D reproductions, which help interrogate all the 2D shapes we see in the contemporary artworks...
Such an elegant design...
The most beautiful and practical helmet ever.
Hi Knyght ! I really do like your helmet series. Keep it up, could you make a sallet video please ? This would be really awesome, sallets are just so cool :)
+Dominique It will be coming. I just recently got hold of a friend's sallet and bevor, but I have not begun the work for the video, so hang in there and it will be here soon. :)
This series is absolutely amazing, fascinating topics and stunning reconstructions. I have a question, too. Do you know of any examples with helmets that had no vision slits, but all vision their visor offered would be holes similar to breaths? A noodle strainer visor, so to say :D
24:45 pretty good is an understatement. That degree of peripheral vision is almost the complete 170 degrees expected without a helmet at all isn't it? Considering it's still a helmet, it's practically ideal.
Great vid, I love your channel❤
Could you do more on the venetian bascinet? Why don't they have any breathing holes?
Can you make a video about armour fluting/fluted armour?
Hi guys I'm ian laspina thanks for tunning in to another video on forgottenweapons.com and today let's look at this armet
Armor Jesus approves.
What is the story behind the background image at 5:10? It looks like one of the fighters is wearing a crown.
+Eliot Childress So what you're seeing there is bleed through of ink from the opposite side of the folio. The images are from MS Ludwig XV 13, or Fiore dei Liberi's "Fior di Battaglia," an early 15th century fighting treatise now housed at the JP Getty Museum. Here's the plate where the bleed-through image actually is (wiktenauer.com/wiki/Page:MS_Ludwig_XV_13_33r.jpg), but the rest of Fior di Battaglia includes lots of images of the fencers wearing gilt crowns ( wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fior_di_Battaglia_(MS_Ludwig_XV_13) ). They represent the 'masters' of the art, teaching the techniques to the students.
Hi Ian,l had a couple visits to the imperial war museum (Leeds) last year,most interesting.I was wondering if you had managed to visit the UK or to Europe.keep up the good work,cheers.
+Paul and Sue Roberts I took a school trip to Europe (A few days each in England, France and Italy) when I was in high school many years ago, but I was far too young to appreciate it and the stay was far too brief in each location. I would love to go back now!
COOL..TK'S FOR YOU TECHING ME....
with the later ones where there was no aventail, how did they protect their neck when they weren't wearing the wrapper? would they wear a mail standard/pisan, or did the helmet itself cover the neck well enough on its own?
+It's Just Milk I Swear They almost certainly would have been wearing a standard underneath their armet.
+Knyght Errant I guess that with this particular armet the gap between the breastplate and the helmet was really2 narrow.
I seriously feel like this type of helmet is the BEST one for everythimg.
I wonder if any armet aventails or mail borders survive? I would think a small hook, like we see on standards, used to close the front split would be a desirable feature.
+Mart Shearer Agreed. It seems like a spot you wouldn't particularly want gapping open during a fight. I've seen reproductions that use lining and padding of the aventail to provide some structure to mitigate that risk, but a small hook would go a long way in protecting you there.
Just a thought: maybe poleaxes and warhammers were designed to damage components like the hinges in order to expose it's wearer.
+Rasgonras A poleaxe doesn't even necessarily need to expose the wearer to hurt them :)
Knyght Errant
That's true, maybe it would be a nice, unintended side effect? (for the attacker, that is ...)
25:46 praise the sun!
Without the visor, cheek pieces, or tail, and with a two-piece riveted-construction, this could also easily be sold as a helmet for the Yoaman Class.
Armets will always be my favourite helmet
Can we get a brief overview of liners in armets and close helmets?
Excellent video, well done. I just had a couple of questions, how thick is the armor on the Armet and how much does it weigh?
Armets are nice, I still prefer sallets or burgonets though. Any chance we'll see a video on either of those?
+Ben Kirkby Buy me a sallet and I'll do a video on it! :) I'm just kidding of course. I intend to make videos on anything I can get my hands on in the future. I find the show-and-tell portion of my videos is one of the strengths of my presentation so I'm trying to only cover pieces of armor I can show you firsthand right now. Sallets are on the list as soon as I can find a high-quality example to demo.
+Knyght Errant Worst case scenario, make one out of duct tape.
+Knyght Errant Sallet! Sallet! Sallet!
+Ben Kirkby I vote for sallet next. It was so common
Knyght Errant if I could afford a good quality sallet or two I would!
nice! as always :p I have a question Involving Armets. In terms of useability in on foot fighting, how would a say "late 15th century" armet (without the extra whrapper plate) hold up against a sallet or kettle hat with a bevor? And would it be a "historically viable" choise for a man at arms mainly fighting on foot. And please add any other thoughts you have about this topic ;)
Kind regards
i have a question, is such a close fit really beneficial in a helmet ? From what i learned about helmets, the really good ones were somewhat floating on your head, not directly transfering the blows to it, therefore reducing blunt force and sudden acceleration of the head due to blows.
Being italian, it is quite funny to hear him pronouncing italian words.
Again a very excellent video! I really appreciate your channel.
I have one question regarding the sort aventail on the example you have showed: as it is attached to the movable pieces at the sides of the helm, even when you fully close the helmet it seems to me that there is a small, but considerable gap in the mail right in front of your throat. Wouldn't it be easy to design the mail in a way that there is a higher amount of overlap of the mail coming from each side?
+Thomas Heydenreich Yeah, it's a weakness in the design. I've seen modern reconstructions try to get around this by backing the mail with a full lined and padded textile that provides more structure and closes the gaps more completely when it's on. I think the aventail on the particular one I show in this video is a little too short as well to really be effective. Here's a speculative attempt to correct what you're talking about (www.gambeson.pl/medieval-on-line-shop/14th-16th-century/armet.html) I would take it one step further though and add some small hooks to close that gap completely. Small hooks were used commonly on things like collars of mail, and I think they would go a long way here to protect the wearer and ensure overlap.
+Knyght Errant I totally agree with you, that there are for sure some fixes to this problem which wouldn't need a lot of tweaking. However, it is very interesting that in those times they probably did not see this to be an important enough problem to fix, which they otherwise would probably have done (as seen in general in the evolution of armor). Thanks for your answer!
Very nice video! May I ask what the song in the beginning is called?
15:47 that thing even still has the windup key for that tin soldier...
Will you be doing a video on the close helm and/or late medieval jousting helmets?
What do these things weigh, no one mentions the weight of these helmets.
A lot of surviving armets tend to be in the 6-8 lb range, give or take. Other styles of similarly sized helmets are pretty close to that range as well. There are of course exceptions.
Neat I wonder how much a proper authentic reproduction good for combat would be
The armet is my favorite type of helmet. It's basically the pinnacle of helmets isn't it? I also find it very aesthetic, and they look very intimidating if designed right.
+Guardian Some might consider the 'close helm' a little more advanced, but I definitely prefer the aesthetic of the armet. They are very close to bascinets in my overall 'favorite helmets.'
if you were to do full contact knight fighting what helmet would you wear??
So since this helmet is so close fitting, does it still have the same principle as for example the smaller where the helmet sort of hangs and the head is actually wearing the liner, so that the force of the blow doesn't go directly into the head?
Yes, in general armets would also utilize a suspension-type liner to keep the steel of the helmet off the top of the cranium.
Finally!
Something I've always wondered about helmets with hinged visors: How do you make sure the visor stays up when you want and doesn't fall back closed? Is it just that the hinges are tight enough for friction to keep it in place?
+John Erickson A lot of historical visor pivots are not perfectly in line with each other. They're offset just slightly. Whether this was intentional or not is a matter of debate, but the result is that when the visor is raised, it puts enough strain on the visor arms to hold it up. Most modern reproductions just use tight pivots.
Love your stuff. Would like to see something on the Schaller/sallet. From pure aesthetics, this is the coolest helmet out there...well, I guess the frog-helmet used for jousting is also pretty neat looking, but not quite there and functionally very limited.
You have good timing. Here's the photo album I just released of the sallet that's currently sitting on the table getting ready to have its video filmed :) facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1123060637769319.1073741836.884329431642442&type=1&l=585e675597
+Knyght Errant Ha, some might call it fate. However, I just call it...luck ;)
good video
wasn't there a knight who legend tells, wore armour so much that he used to go dancing in it, like it was light as a feather
probably just a legend
a bit late and its a tale of a French knight and they did some testing and a lot of things they say he did are quite plausaible to a person whos body adapts to the weight like a second skin they had a person wear plate armor none stop and rock climb and exercise and everything in it. they could climb and even do cartwheels with some difficulty articulated plate gives much more freedom of movement then people give it credit for.
I believe you're thinking of Jean le Maingre, better known as Marshal Boucicaut.
Hi Ian, are you willing to do a video on the Gjermundbu helmet. I realise you're most experienced and knowledgeable about later period armour but i and i suspect others would love an expert opinion and any info you feel is relevant. Your videos are so valuable, thanks.
Hi Kirk, thanks. I certainly wouldn't mind doing a video on Gjermundbu. I would definitely need to brush up though, because as you said it's not in the period I'm most comfortable with. No promises, but I will add it to my list of future topics!
Knyght Errant, fantastic. If you get to it, some of the photo's of the actual helmet seem to have a couple of holes near the bottom rim and one on the bottom of the spectacle piece. I've wondered since seeing it, how likely it is that an aventail was attached here ? I dont know, there doesn't seem to be enough holes, but what else could they be for ?
Knyght Errant, Apparently Vegard Yield is doing new conservation wok on the gjermundbu helm, there are some good quality pics of disassembled helm. I can't seem to add them in the comment so youll have to find them with just a name.
would the lock in front not open easely in fights (hand to hand fights?)?
+warfilgames The cheek pieces themselves actually provide considerable outward tension on the locking mechanism. Later armets would often feature a small hook and eyelet to lock the cheek-plates closed, so perhaps they moved away from this turn-pin for that very reason. I can attest to the fact that I've seen the owner of this helmet take poleaxe shots to the armet and he's had no failures of the lock so far that I'm aware of, but it's a distinct possibility.
Hope you read this.
Isnt the rondell aso for giving you fixation on the saddles of the time, since they where mire like big chairs on horseback.
+blastmaster211 I'm not sure I follow what you're suggesting.
Is there a mechanism to hold the visor in place when it's turned up, to keep it from randomly falling down in battle (assuming the wearer wanted more visibility)?
+DeadCamper No mechanism that I've ever seen. One interesting feature that occurs in a lot of historical helmets with side-pivoting visors (in high enough frequency that it's hard to ignore) is that the pivots are not perfectly aligned. The slight offset between the pivots almost locks the visor in the up position when it's raised because of the twist it applies to the arms of the visor. Some try to say this is just a happy biproduct of imprecise smithing, but my personal opinion is that even if this did start as an accident, it probably became intentional. Medieval smiths were capable of aligning holes, that I can't believe it's purely accidental for over a century.
+Knyght Errant Thank you. That indeed seems like a clever and practical way of doing it, no need for fiddly pins and hooks etc.
Do you not have a video covering close helmets?
I kinda half expected you to cover them here since I didn't see a separate video.
ghostbirdofprey he doesn't but there basically the same except how they open
Hi,
Great content as usual. No other channel deals with armor as well as you do. One question though, were there any weapons made to exploit the breaths? None of the rondel daggers ive seen would make it through far enough to kill the person but a spike of sorts with the diameter slightly less than the average breaths would surely be usefull in a 1v1 situation or is there simply too much variation and bashing them in or finding another spot for the rondel is more practical? It could look something like those kitchen knife sharpeners i guess, the metal rod ones.
Anyway keep up the quality content!
+Ryalnotch Thank you! As far as weapons to exploit the breaths, none that I'm aware of. The breaths are so small, the corresponding weapon would have to be very narrow and probably pretty fragile. The odds of getting it into the breath during a fight would be pretty low. You'd have to have subdued your opponent first, in which case you would just lift their visor or go under the aventail with your dagger.
I used to own an armet that had a larger beak but very narrow visor
where do you get your armour from- it looks so much different from normal off the shelf armour
With the wrapper plate and used more by cavalry I can imagine breathing wasn't as bad as the visor would be up more often than someone on the ground would have. Then I can see it being more required for cavalry because they are moving on a horse and there would be spears and swords pointing up from the ground making the impacts from them much more severe possibly able to bend the two cheek plates apart. A knight on the ground there wouldn't be the force multiplier called a horse so the chances of bending the plates is less and they would be moving about themselves rather than being carried so more breathing capabilities would be the better choice.
That's a huge helmet!!!
Very interesting information. I actually had no idea that armets had hinged cheek pieces.
+Arioch IV The hinged cheek plate is a key feature to the armet. It's the main distinguishing feature between an armet and a close helm, and I think it looks really cool :)
Knyght Errant It's a case where I thought I knew more than I did -- much of what I thought I knew came from my younger days. Your whole series is very well presented, informative and fascinating! I learned a lot.
This is a very useful video, and I have a question. I have an armet which is one size fits all, very basic I'm sure compared to all of yours. But it does the job. Anyways it has a rather long neck section, which is cylindrical and encircles my neck like a tight tall gorget would. This is desirable to me, but as you mentioned it does rest on my shoulders and collar bones. It also greatly restricts my up and down forward and back head motion, and it bites the bottom of the throat and bottom of the back of the neck.
I want to know how low a cylindrical neck section should go on this type of armet? where, how far down, on my anatomy should it stop? and are there any examples of gorgets whose cylindrical neck segments overlap those of the matching armet? How do you make these cylindrical sections fit comfortably to the body and then closely fit to each other in a sleek and flexible way?
I am considering cutting a u-shaped section out of the neck area, at the front and back, to allow head movement and comfort, not have it touch my shoulders, yet keep the low side of the neck safety. But then it might bight the sides of my neck.
Everything else on the helmet is fine in terms of fit. The vision is very good, the breathing is fine, and it all lines up to my eyes just right with an arming cap. Just a little tight on the sides.
Any input you may have would be very welcome.
Do you have a link to a photograph of this particular helmet? Normally, late period armets (16th century and later) that have any significant neck on them usually flare out rather than projecting straight downward in a tight cylinder. These would usually incorporate articulated lames to allow flex, essentially an integrated and articulated gorget. If the neck is entirely rigid, it is usually very short. There are examples of a armets designed to lock over and interface with a flange on a separate gorget that allows swivel of the head without needing the gorget to rotate at all.
YES!
Would you do a review of the visored/bevored sallet? I really love that helmet. :)
I've recently got my hands on a sallet and bevor and will be doing the video in the next month or two.
Oh really? Man that sounds nice. Will wait for it! :)
@@KnyghtErrant this is very late but I just noticed you posted not one, but THREE sallet videos. Thank you so much!!
My favorites are the bascinets and the pepperpot helms.
+Necro Argumentum Ad Hominem Bascinets are my favorite as well! I may have a video or two on them ;)
+Knyght Errant I've watched one... Not the Great Bascinet one yet. Keyword 'yet' hahaha
Love the design of this helmet. Not only is it esthetic and functional, it also solved the problem a lot of other visored helmets have: noticeable reduction in protection when the visor is raised. Can you attach a plate gorget to it instead of the mail one?
+Charles W There's no indication I'm aware of that the earlier armets were ever worn with plate throat defense other than what was provided by the helmet itself. Of course later styles would incorporate the removable wrapper to reinforce the throat, but I've not seen them worn with a discreet gorget.
Knyght Errant Yeah, I did some research and all variations of this helmet I see come with mail aventail.
Very cool. I hope you are still around?
I just bought myself one of these helmets, would the kit that goes with it look more like 1390 (with fabric garment over the torso and/or sleeves) or with the later style of exposed armor?
Where do you find this information?
Im going to have a exam in armour, and information like these have i not come over. :o