Thank you for participating in this discussion. Racism has always been an inconvenient topic to address, because it depends on the unique lived experiences of individuals. Naturally, it can bring up emotions among our talents. Naturally, comments among our viewers can be divisive. We did not create this video to divide people or define racism. We created it to turn up the volume of the minorities’ voices. If they resonate with us, then we know we are not alone. If they do not, we can see these differences as an opportunity to become inquisitive and start asking why. We had this conversation to talk with - not at - one another. We hope it continues in the same spirit online and offline. We appreciate the feedback on how the delivery could have been more all-rounded. We will consider extending the conversation in future with greater diversity of views in mind. If you feel strongly about this topic and are willing to share on camera, please drop us an e-mail at hello@zula.sg
Still disagree to a certain extent Zula. I believe in your intention, what you’re trying to achieve. We should absolutely turn up the volume of the minorities, and I do get where their heart is. It is, however, not a discussion if even though their heart is in a good place, we cannot correct or help make their delivery better. It is still very one sided. And a flawed delivery is accepted in this conversation because it would be “racist” to disagree, even to a small degree? If you want this conversation to talk WITH, it should be a two way conversation. This is still, at the end of the day, a one sided piece. Still, good effort. But could be better with a moderator. Not to disagree with everyone, but to make it more fair. And it shouldn’t just be a 22 mins video. A better discussion would be making this a few episodes or longer. A moderator is needed. After each episode is edited, I do think participants need to gather together again to review the video to see if there are any points they missed out or would like to add on. This is such a sensitive topic and it shouldn’t just be done in one setting, in one episode. And it is still being divisive more than anything.
@@en4234 I fully agree! I can't help but disagree to an extent as well. I understand and appreciate the good intentions behind the video, but this does not excuse that the video was produced rather poorly. To add on to this point, yes, their intention might not be to define racism, but by having questions on whether given scenarios are racist and having the guests, who are minorities and thus difficult to disagree with since we are easily labelled as racist or ignorant if we did, justify why these instances are racist and having the members of other races agree completely without having anyone of a different mindset refute these claims and justifications does set a standard, especially for the "younger, and very vulnerable" crowd. Especially when their platform is as big as it is. A conversation to talk about racism is exactly what we need. But this was not in any way a conversation at all.
@@chloewong8798 This is the danger i hope Zula fully understands. You have a platform and your target audiences are the younger vulnerable crowd. We cannot put out blanket statements and justify it one day later when most of your audiences already probably watched the video and walked away with a wrong impression in their head. Talents can be emotional, that is perfectly understandable. But they need to be objective at the end of the day. Or someone should be able to step in to correct them. Always think about the bigger picture, what you think the people will walk away with after watching your video. I am an older uncle who can pretty much form my own opinion, but I don't think our younger Singaporeans can, yet. Especially for a subject so complex and sensitive. A suggestion, if i may, would be having someone who is objective, level-headed and not afraid to disagree, to review the end product first before releasing future videos like this.
Talk with? They were shooting down others’ experiences. The Indian girl especially. Horrible video. You guys want to chime in on such a conversation at such a time where so much is happening in the world right now, and you let this Indian girl go on and on and on and insinuate that Chinese people this Chinese people that all Chinese are racist all Chinese want to be white. Honestly just take down this video. It’s so upsetting.
Bree don’t think they will take down this video. The theatrical value is still there. Also, they received quite some affirmation and support on Facebook for it.
i always like when they get him in such videos. he's really sensible n can see many perspectives. he's my fav person in TSL. john john for president!!!
im a minority and even i myself feel like this whole conversation is an echo chamber that is treading on dangerous grounds such as minority vs majority and the whole ‘privilege’ thing. when will ppl understand that minority/majority just means numbers in a population and that they are not meant to define you. you belong to one of the four main ethnic groups in singapore period. thats what singapore has always proudly defined itself to be - a multicultural and multiracial country with four main ethnic groups, not one majority group and three minority groups. we are not like the western world. why are ppl bent on seeing minority groups as inferior or oppressed etc.? adopting this kind of westernised mindset and therefore overgeneralising an entire race to be subconsciously racist or rather judging an entire race simply based on their numbers in a population is in itself problematic and is racially divisive. this is a slippery slope that will only divide people and not unite. and its pretty evident what a mess this sort of thinking brings in other countries. i personally believe that racism is marked by how one behaves towards others, their words and their actions and not simply cos they belong to the majority race. its as tho saying that if a malay person cross the causeway into malaysia with a chinese friend where malays are the majority then suddenly the malay person is a subconscious racist because now he/she is the majority and vice versa for chinese friend..it doesnt work this way. ppl need to understand the sad hard truth which is racists exist in all races and it does not only apply to only the race with the most ppl in the country. also the reason why ppl might encounter more racists from the majority race is simply because there is more of them. its just like celebrities and fandoms. every fandom has assholes but one is likely to encounter more assholes from a fandom of millions of ppl compared to a fandom of thousands of ppl. and that said, i believe that for every one racist encountered there are prob hundreds/thousands more who will stand alongside with you to hold these ppl accountable and thats what we shld be doing. we shld be holding ppl accountable for racist behaviours and in other areas correcting and getting rid of casual racism and ignorance across all races like backhanded compliments, racial jokes, racial stereotypes or stuff like defining a person’s job capability by race that has nth to do with language etc which i wholeheartedly agree, and not turning ard instead and paint all chinese ppl with the same brush. holding a racist person accountable, holding racist actions and words accountable is how we show zero tolerance towards racism and create an environment that minimises racism in the society, and not holding an entire race accountable for the actions of a few and calling them privileged simply by their race. thats not going to solve anything. rather it just pushes ppl away and divide us. and to add on to some specific things said, assuming someone ‘lived experience’ simply by their race is just wrong. how sure does one know that a person lived experience is similar/different from you just by their race? and how is it right that not only does one make assumption of a person’s lived experience based on their race but then add on to say if you look like the majority of ppl therefore you are like them and thus racism doesnt apply to you? isnt that being double standards depending on a person’s race? not to mention some are so quick to call out having a racial preference for dating/marriage (which is often tied to common experiences/similarities in religion, cultural/traditional practices, family background etc) as being racist when in fact most ppl in all races have the natural tendency to prefer ppl of similar racial, cultural and religion background, but then sweeping blanket statements like ‘chinese wants to be white’ or ‘chinese tick all the boxes’/‘minorities dont tick all the boxes’ or ‘indian men want to date chinese women to increase privilege’ or ‘make my eyes look small to look chinese (which is essentially stereotyping chinese to have small eyes) can be made purely based on race and laughed about. i mean really? anyway i hope we never have to call ppl in singapore by their skin colour. pls just no..singapore is diverse and we have a whole range of skin tones across all races. anyway the girl who said she identifies herself as a brown person dont even look brown to me lol..i have even seen chinese ppl way more brown than that.
I agree with some of ur points, but saying that the westernized mindset is "ppl bent on seeing minority groups as inferior or oppressed" is kinda racist
I am very sorry if this comes across as ignorant or racist in any way, and would love to be enlightened if so. I honestly respect TSL, and appreciate that they use their platform for things as important as this, and completely agree with the fact that we definitely need more conversations regarding this topic. However, as conversations are required, and empathy needs to be brought to such conversations, I feel like openness towards the opinions of others should be part of that conversation as well. In all honesty, it felt to me like the people who are from the "majority" race in this video were being shot down very quickly when they expressed their opinions, and given little chances to explain their own reasonings and rationales (though this might be an editing thing, which, in this case, should not have been edited this way). One such example of this is when Thomas was shot down for his opinions on dating preferences, and to me it was quite evident that he was much more careful with his words after. I completely agree that there are many instances in Singapore where the minorities are treated unfairly, such as in employment and housing. This is where the Chinese definitely do have a privilege. However, by saying that Chinese have "power" when it comes to issues of stereotypes and social interactions and are thus not being treated in a discriminatory or racist manner sounds completely irrational to me. I have read other comments regarding the "power" imbalance, and am curious as to why being in the majority means that I have to be okay with the discrimination faced from other races? While it might be true that I can easily remove myself from situations where I, a Chinese person, am the majority, is the solution to this problem to remove myself completely from the situation? If i felt uncomfortable when my Malay friends are speaking in another language in front of me, why is the reason that this is not considered racist because I can easily find other friends who are Chinese? So are we encouraged to just befriend people of the majority race instead, since that is easier anyway? How does this encourage any conversation and racial harmony? And while being Chinese means that I am part of a majority who might not think that I am "ugly" or "have small eyes" for being Chinese, does this not mean that these comments from other races are not hurtful and uncalled for? Why does this mean that they are not being racist? As an analogy for this justification, why should an influencer or celebrity ever feel affected by hate comments in any way? Are their haters not usually a minority who are usually anonymous and definitely powerless, and do they not usually receive a lot more love from their fans? What rights do they have to be upset then? And while many people are asking us to acknowledge our "privilege" and "power", I find this notion somewhat ironic because by acknowledging my privilege and power, am I not also acknowledging that the minorities are inferior to me? Am i not, by saying that I am a Chinese with privilege, you, as someone from an inferior race, mean less and are less because you are not Chinese? Is the act of treating the minorities as inferior not racist? Where do we draw the line when it comes to racism? And while I appreciate this video being made to address important issues such as this, I do agree with the others that this may not have been the best one.. With regards to opinions given (where if the intention of this video was to shed light on the experiences of the minorities, then fine, title it to be that, instead of a "discussion on racism") and the very strong and extreme mindsets of some of the guests. By saying that discrimination towards the majority should not be considered racist because they have "power", labelling all majorities as racists, are we not instilling a very negative mindset into the audience of Zula, who might very well be the "very vulnerable" group that the people in the video speak of? Does this not further enforce the idea of being inferior and treated as less into the "very vulnerable" minorities watching this video, and also label majorities as "powerful" and "privileged" individuals who are racist and unable to accept their privilege if they have opinions that differ from those in this video? Without having differing opinions in this video and publishing one that is so completely one-sided and extremist on a platform as big as this, are we not effectively shutting down the conversations that could have been had, if people are less willing to be open and receptive towards others' opinions, and are less willing to share theirs out of fear of being labelled as an ignorant and privileged racist? It felt to me as if anything the majority has to say regarding this conversation is very quickly being shot down and labelled as ignorant and racist, while the minorities could say anything they wished, whether it be racist or not (such as squinting your eyes to look more Chinese, or Indian men wanting to date Chinese to increase their privilege) and get away with it, because they are part of a minority, and because they do not have any "power" in a social situation. How does this welcome any conversation at all? Why would a Chinese person want to partake in a conversation where anything they said was wrong, and would not be considered valid at all? This video has too strongly advocated that all Chinese are ignorant, privileged individuals while every minority in this country are weak and powerless, but with a free pass to be racist purely because they are a minority. It is honestly ironic to me that this video is meant to spark conversations when it has very clearly placed labels on people based on the very premise of their race. How do I stand up for the minority, and when? When is it okay, when is it needed, when is it racist? Where will the line ever be drawn, and where will the bar for racism stop? I apologise again if any of my questions or comments have come across in the wrong way, or if I am being ignorant towards the privilege I have to form these opinions in the first place.
I totally see your point! I’m on at 2 minutes 53 seconds of the video.and I felt this video has already shoot down Chinese itself. I’m questioning why “being Chinese” “ is a privilege” when no one has said anything about privilege yet (in this video)? Being a Singapore citizens is a privilege! and since when Chinese wants to act like westerners? The start of this video is already making me confuse about what they message they are trying to convey. i can’t even continue the video now. Need a break.
Hi, Chloe! It's clear that you find this topic important, because you've put quite some thought into this. I think it's a good thing that you brought up empathy at the start of your comment, because when it comes to difficult conversations, empathy is always required to keep an open mind and truly listen to what others have to say. I hear you, and see that the video has stirred up quite a bit emotion - hence, all the questions you have! it's never easy to hear things that make you question what you've always taken as fact. It's a good thing to have questions, that's how we start really understanding things. But sometimes, these questions get in the way of hearing what people have to say, when you are too busy trying to catch any gaps or flaws. It might be good to rewatch the video, while keeping your questions at bay - I think they've answered some of the questions you have actually! Like this one below: "However, by saying that Chinese have "power" when it comes to issues of stereotypes and social interactions and are thus not being treated in a discriminatory or racist manner sounds completely irrational to me. I have read other comments regarding the "power" imbalance, and am curious as to why being in the majority means that I have to be okay with the discrimination faced from other races?" -> At about the 15-min mark, Kiran explained that it is discriminatory, but it's not racist as it doesn't change the way you live your life as the majority race outside of that friend group. I don't think they're trying to tell you that you HAVE to be okay with the discrimination, but they're trying to explain that the discrimination doesn't affect your life adversely outside of that incident. And this is my personal take on a point you had: "And while many people are asking us to acknowledge our "privilege" and "power", I find this notion somewhat ironic because by acknowledging my privilege and power, am I not also acknowledging that the minorities are inferior to me? Am i not, by saying that I am a Chinese with privilege, you, as someone from an inferior race, mean less and are less because you are not Chinese? Is the act of treating the minorities as inferior not racist? Where do we draw the line when it comes to racism?" -> Acknowledging our privilege and power is to acknowledge that we have advantages the minority races might not. Yes, you are definitely right to say that treating the minorities as inferior is racist! So what we have to do here is to ask ourselves why are there situations where the minorities are treated as less preferable (and hence, implicitly inferior)? For example, the tuition situation mentioned by Deesha. I hope I'm not coming across rude or "too woke", because I genuinely think there could be value to your questioning - and hopefully, learning as your questions are answered through this video or other platforms/material. Because you are right that more conversations are needed around this topic! But I'm hopeful, like Deesha is at the end of the video. She's right: look what Singapore has achieved in 50 years! "If it's any society that can change, it's Singapore." And I really do hope that we can create a more empathetic, fairer society in our generation.
@@yvettekan3564 Hi Yvette, thank you for the response :). Yes, I have rewatched the video multiple times before coming up with my questions, and it is because the things in the video did not answer the questions did I put them out - thus I genuinely appreciate your time in responding. With regards to the point made by Kiran, I fully understand if racism were to be labelled or defined as something that affects a person's life adversely outside of the particular situation. If we were to label racism in this way, what confuses me is the labelling of a Chinese speaking in Mandarin in front of people of the minority group as racist - and not labelling it as racist if it was a reversed situation. I understand that it is very much more likely for this to happen to the minorities due to the numbers in our population. However, this does not mean that it does not happen to the Chinese, and this does not mean that it could not end up being hurtful to the Chinese as well. How does Chinese people speaking Mandarin affect the minorities adversely outside of that particular incident in a way that does not affect someone of a majority group? How does a Chinese person asking why they don't smell a certain way affect them in a way that does not affect a Chinese person being mocked for their "small eyes"? They are both hurtful and discriminatory - but what exactly makes it racist only when a Chinese does it? If we want to label racism in such a definite way, where the discrimination has to affect a person's life outside of the incident - then we have to admit that it has been used too loosely in this video, and labelling so many things as racist instead of discriminatory could bring across a wrong message to the audience of this video. And for the second point, yes, I completely agree with you. It is important to think about why this happens, in situations such as employment and housing. However, I do believe that by continually enforcing the idea of Chinese being privileged and the minorities being inferior, we are further causing a divide by clearly stating that the Chinese are superior and have power, whereas the minorities are powerless and weak. This could be a very negative mindset to instill in the younger generations, as growing up with that mindset might have been exactly what has caused this problem today. Additionally, by continually expanding the definition of racism to include all kinds of acts of discrimination such as speaking in Mandarin and preferring to date people of our own race, we are taking the focus away from the (probably, or what I assume to be, sorry if I am too ignorant or not "woke" enough to understand) bigger issue here that the minorities are facing: in terms of jobs and housing. By potentially causing further divides between the races by labelling almost everything a Chinese does as racist and having such broad definitions of what racism is, we effectively cause people to avoid interaction with each other more. While the minorities might start to resent the Chinese more when they start to view many of these instances as racist, and while the Chinese start to fear any interaction at all out of fear of being labelled as racist, we are worsening the problem. My issue with how the video was made is not with the experiences and thoughts and emotions of the guests, but how it clearly showed that the majorities were not able to make their own stands and justify them without being outrightly and blatantly called racist. It might have been on her own terms, and they might claim to not be defining racism, but it is clear that in any scenario, a minority has much more of a say as to what racism is than a Chinese (since they "can't be racist") - and any disagreement can easily be labelled as racist. In this case, how are we sparking conversations and helping to improve the situation, if we are clearly setting standards and creating more of a divide? This can be seen very clearly from all the comments on the videos, as well as many tweets I have seen going around on Twitter recently regarding racism - we are brewing more resentment and hatred in our society when we start to set such strict standards, and when we start to label everything as racist. As another commenter has said, many people are actually willing to learn and be open to conversations regarding the topic. However, if by partaking in a conversation and expressing their views would result in them outrightly being called racist with no chance for conversation, it is clear that conversations will be avoided, and the problem could then potentially worsen. Again, I apologise if I come across as ignorant or racist in any way. I am definitely hopeful too that Singapore can be better, but we have to be better together. And this is why I stressed that apart from empathy, openness has to be brought to conversations as well.
When the group was asked if having a preferred race to date is racist. When the guy was trying to explain why he felt it wasn't racist, the other 2 girls immediately shut him down by saying that he thinks his reasoning is acceptable because he is a racist. Then everyone change their answer to be politically correct. And every other answer to the following questions were all politically correct. Basically the whole video just felt like a rant about minority problems. Like they are trying to educate us, who are apparently all inherently bigoted Chinese people.
haha, then you got the whole point of it. learning to hear some other perspectives than your own, shutting up and accepting that it is just as valid. this is why these conversations need to happen, so that chinese people understand that their way of viewing things is not the only way, it is just one way, and there needs to be room for others too. the real issue now is whether chinese people are actually evolved enough to understand this is happening, or just resisting because they are weak, uncomfortable or not used to being challenged. update: this is happening. just whether you like it or not.
hilmir hilmir What you're suggesting sounds alot like tyranny of the minority. Yes we should protect minority groups. However, I think you saying that all Chinese people should "shut up and accept" is oppressive. Who are you to subject us to your will? Why are there suddenly so many double standards for Chinese people??
hilmir Also, y'all making it sound like y'all face the same kind of oppression as minorities in the West- like Singaporean Chinese are as racist as white slave owners. But the fact is we are not. Y'all acting like just because y'all are minorities y'all kenna ill-treated until damn bad. But just because is minority means ill-treated Meh? In fact, anywhere you go there are also minorities what. Next door also, the Chinese are minorities in Malaysia.
@@boozhixuan6666 well, welcome to our reality. only difference, you are only receiving this NOW, when this has been ongoing for minorities. we have been told to shut up, to accept, and also be denied when we ask, who are you to subject us to your will. not so nice to get it back, right?
No, there is a big difference between preference and bias and outright racism. If you are attracted to a good looking person from your perspective, are you against someone who doesn’t fit what you feel is “not good looking enough”? I don’t know, some things need to be very carefully dissected before you label it as racism.
I didnt watch that part. Are they now calling sexual prefences racism? Gen Z need to quit. So dumb! By that logic can we call them homophobic for not wanting to sleep with the same sex then?
They did a recent study and found that new Gen Z are more racist and homophobic than Millenials. Calling people racist or TERFs for having a sexual preference is disgusting. Especially for young gay people coming to terms with their sexuality. It's like conversion therapy.
@@trinity-qn1jj it's not racism. It's called a sexual preference. I understand wokies have decided to label it otherwise but majority of people dont go by your definitions. I mean should I call you sexist or transphobic if you only sleep with the opposite sex? Stop reading racism or prejudice where there isnt any. People have sexual preferences and that's normal and had no bearing on what you think of those people as people. Some people prefer black people. Some people prefer penis. It really isnt a big deal.
@@DarkAngel2512 💀 this dude literally told me I was “pretty for a black girl” n “I don’t date black girls, especially brown and dark ones” that’s not racist? I’m starting to be okay with the fact that I’ll be single for the rest of my life. He goes out now with a girl that’s almost identically like me only difference is skin color, n you call that not racist? pls I’m done talking to you.
Choosing a preferred race to date, isn’t racist, it’s preference. Unless, someone says “I don’t want to date (race) because (race) is ugly” then that’s racist but otherwise, it’s not racist, it’s personal preference.
i understand where ure coming from cos i had this view initially. however after listening to these speakers who are of minority races, it is also hard for us as chinese majority to understand and empathise with, solely because we have never experienced racial bias in dating before.
i think it may help to think of it this way. If you migrate to USA tomorrow, and started to date there, but most of your dates end up saying, sorry i prefer white or Caucasian people, i dont really date chinese. its their preference, but you will be hurt if you keep getting that over and over. and being to question, whats wrong with dating chinese? the preference is not wrong, its empathizing
@@Bryaneng27 this is a problem that can never be solved.. so what does one expect from the majority? date you out of sympathy?? that's also pretty racist. there isnt a society where minorities will not feel left out simply because it is a game of numbers.. no amount of policies and laws can help against that..
Conversations like this really make me realise the importance of a good, intellectual, objective and critical moderator - if not, it just gets reduced into an echo chamber / one-sided conversation, which is what I think this video really has been. And that is dangerous. Content producers / platforms which have a sizeable following need to be responsible for what they put out.
I agree! "Discussions" like these where they are just answering questions and explaining their answers are really not fruitful. There was no conclusion drawn, neither was there a consensus on the definition of certain terms used e.g. "racism is discrimination with power" , "post-racial utopia", and even the most basic - what is racism? Less discerning viewers will walk away from this video none the wiser. A good, professional moderator should be present to raise thoughtful, timely questions that clarify opinions, or even pose difficult questions that make the participants think more critically. It was very frustrating to watch this video - it should be called a chitchat/conversation between friends rather than being presented as an intellectual discourse.
i agree but easier said than done. who is this 'perfect' moderator pray tell? can you even name a person in sg let alone the world who can do this job well? i doubt so. therein lies the issue.
personally, while doesn’t racism exist in a power vacuum, i do not think it is okay for the minority race to discriminate or hold any prejudice against the majority race. it’s the same analogy as, just because someone bullies you it doesn’t exactly give you the authority to bully them back. it is important that as entire society we do not marginalise or discriminate any race. we must get rid of any preconceived notions that as a minority or as a majority we have certain rights/privileges. if you would feel excluded if your friends spoke in a language you didn’t understand then don’t ever do the same to others.
"Outside of this conversation, whatever I do to you doesn't really change your lived experience." What kind of dumb fk logic is this. If you want to have a discussion about a sensitive topic like this, invite more intelligent people please
i agree. when she said that it does not affect his lived experience i had to stop watching. she discriminating someone IS affecting someone's experience, dont understand why there are double standards.
Hello, John from the video here. I think before we rush to pass angry labels on people let's take a step back to internalise the views shared here, especially those that we don't necessarily agree with. As a part of this panel I am glad that I managed to do more listening than talking because as someone who never felt any of the emotions expressed here, I thought I ought to give a chance to someone to share their story. It is easy to call someone ridiculous, but it's difficult to listen to something seemingly ridiculous and try to see if there are things to internalise. Some of the sharings might not be the most immediately palatable and I understand that to some of us it might even sound incredibly hypocritical and accusatory. I understand this well because I was there. But I realised that if we took the time to internalise the conversation topics and the opinions, we come to realise that there certainly are things to reflect upon even if we disagree with the specific action being described. And I think that was the intention when we opened this sensitive topic up because as singaporeans we ought to try to see our fellow man's plight before we aim to correct their mindset :)
@@johnedward7498 I don't understand how I am supposed to "internalise" or "reflect upon" the idea of reverse racism/double standards. Most of the things they've said in the video I have emphathised with but some are just purely flawed/misconstrued/self-absorbed ideas. I understand where you are coming from though, thanks for clarifying.
@@swimmingpoolz You need perspective. It isn't "dumb fk logic" at all and she certainly is an intelligent, young lady. Different people have different understandings of what "racism" entails. To some, discriminating against any race (be it the majority or minority) in "any setting" is racism. To others, it is the "lived experience" that matters. In other words, it is the power imbalances reflected in one's everyday encounters coupled with the discriminatory treatment that is termed "racism". You can agree or disagree with the definition adopted, but to dismiss her view as "dumb fk logic" is uncalled for. The chances of a Chinese person in Singapore finding themselves in the position of a minority is rare (e.g. when you travel overseas or you are employed in a workplace that predominantly has people of another race). More often than not, the "racist" encounters you may have had are one-off. You have the option of removing yourself from that situation with ease (e.g. return to Singapore, move to any other workplace). Second, the reason why power imbalances matter when it comes to racism is because the impact of racist statements on someone in power will be much more muted. If I, as a minority, said something along the lines of "Chinese people are ugly" or "I will never date a Chinese" or "I don't wish to rent to you because you are Chinese", the effect of these statements are much more muted because they do not serve to reinforce your lived experience. You know that my statements mean nothing because the majority view is different and that you, as a Chinese person, have inherently more privileges than I do. With that being said, it is basic common sense for one to be more inclusive of minorities (in any setting). What this means is that if a Chinese person finds themselves being the minority in any situation, it is basic courtesy to include and not exclude them by speaking in a language he cannot understand.
I’m not one to say this because I’m of the majority race but as a majority race, I feel that, racism is still racism even if a power/non-power race, mention something racist. U can’t be like “hey look at this guy, he’s black” and deem it as racist but when someone who’s of minority says “hey look, he’s white” and because he’s of the minority that is making this statement and “he knows what racism is because he’s of the minority” then he’s not racist. There’s no such thing as “just because you’re of the minority, you’re not racist” that’s absolutely bullshit because a statement made about a race, be it from a minority or majority, is still racist. So when it comes to minority or majority, we have to “judge” a person not of their race but what they said
hmm i get what you’re trying to say but i think what you mean is discriminatory. everyone can be discriminated against, BUT what makes racism different is that you are discriminated FOR simply being that race. also, the majority race don’t face discrimination FOR their race because of the societal privileges that they have while the minority has actual societal things that they are excluded from (jobs, renting apartments, opportunities to go to certain schools etc.) or receive derogatory comments simply because of their race. so to say that power doesn’t matter is very wrong and only you can say that because of your privilege. a minority can be discriminatory towards a person from a majority race but this is more of racial prejudice and NOT racism. that is why reverse racism does not exist.
xZeerah and from what u said, does it mean that blacks can be racist and whites can’t? So to counter ur statement, reverse racism works, it’s just how the race deal with it or how much they’re affected by it
While this debate between "discrimination" and "racism" may seem like semantics, I do think it matters. Discrimination, from what I understand in this context, is more of a catch-all term, while racism takes into account the power and structural imbalance of the context and is a more severe form of discrimination. But both are bad, right? Yes, undoubtedly. But they're not equal. If someone who's been a victim of a violent robbery and comes to us badly bruised an injured, would "oh, yes, that's bad. It happened to me too, I've been pick pocketed before" or "suck it up, it happens to everyone, I was just pick pocketed last week" be an appropriate response? As Jon says, we let's engage with empathy as a starting point. As Chinese people living in a majority-Chinese society, this conversation about racism makes us feel uncomfortable because to admit it exists is to admit that we've been complicit in an unjust system and that we're the "bad guys." But if we focus too much on why we're not racist, or why we can also be victims of racism, it'll be very hard to improve and rehabilitate the status quo. And yes, on a micro-level we all have our own struggles in our careers and personal lives, but this conversation about racism is not about that: let's first seek to understand where our minority friends are coming from and maybe not make this about us?
i think it is racist to assume indian men date chinese women to increase their privilege. i also believe that thomas is entitled to his “preferences”. so deesha, following your logic, i hope you would be okay dating someone different from you (race, disability, socioeconomic background, height, etc) too. so stop making snide remarks and think you’ll get away with it because you’re a minority. i believe that both majorities and minorities are racists and it’s because of how we have different experiences. you can’t change an opinion/feeling but you can change how you respond to diverse people.
Karim Khan they mostly date rich and educated indian guys who are better than them social status wise and looks wise. And as a minority myself, ill never date them. I think the majority of the minorities are like this. Its just a handful of the minorities marrying them likewise a handful of the majorities marrying the minorities lmao
To open up conversation, I think we need a more balanced point of view. The intention of the video is there, but everything said is very one sided. If identifying someone by their race is racist, why do they keep saying Chinese this and Chinese that? Racism shouldn’t exist, period. Some Chinese need to be more aware, and be more sensitive. Fully agree. But I also want to carefully point out that some people of color need to unlearn part of what they deem as racist. There are a lot of grey area in this topic but somehow it’s just “racist” or “not racist”. Why isn’t there anyone bringing up another point of view to make it more balanced? John is there to just listen, be sensitive about it and be enlightened. That is good. But how is there no one bringing alternative point of view to make it a fairer discussion, if we are having one? By constantly pointing out that the Chinese are privileged and has power, how is this going to educate the younger people watching the video? We all need to learn and unlearn, help each other. We need to show patience and love and understanding. To everyone. By throwing the word racist at everything, how is that going to help anyone grow? If today my parents, who have primary school education, wants to see a doctor but they can only converse in Chinese. How are they racist? If Sofeah was there, she would just label my parents as racist. And how is this fair? How is identifying someone by their race racist? If we are talking racism, all the more you should be proud of your race? If I call someone brown, that can potentially be racist as well if that person thinks It is. Where is the middle ground in this? If there is any intention of having a discussion, I think we need to have both sides’ POV to make it a more meaningful and thought provoking one. This is not it. And everyone laughs when “the Chinese wants to be the white”. Nope.
Respectfully, I have to disagree. Nobody owes us a discussion. Nobody owes us Chinese people a chance to feel heard and seen when we are The Most heard and seen in daily life. Zula's video, like they said in their comment, was to amplify the voices of minorities, who are not often given a chance to be heard on a public platform. If we want a discussion, we should be seeking out our friends of minority races around us, engaging with them as people and as equals. And we should be willing to at least let them have this public platform to share their experiences. The act of sharing is often difficult when someone is always out to invalidate your experience to protect their own ego, which is exactly what the bulk of comments on this video have been doing - invalidating minority voices. So that's why this public platform is so important to them. If you still cannot accept that, maybe it's good to look inwards and reflect on why we find it necessary to defend the egos of Chinese people so strongly, even when others are telling us that our actions are hurting them.
@@beanie82 Let me make this clear. I agree a HUNDRED percent that we need to amplify minority voices. Please understand this before i go on. And I did not say we need to invalidate their opinion neither did I say we need to defend Chinese ego. In one of my comment, I said we cannot put out blanket statements because this video goes out to the masses. And I can see what they are trying to achieve and I fully support it. I just really do think the delivery needs to be better. This is the danger which I don't think you are seeing. Being Chinese doesn't mean I just keep quiet and even when I have questions or I SLIGHTLY disagree with something, I cannot raise it up. Perfect example in this video, a patient doesn't want to speak to you because he/she thinks you don't understand Chinese immediately is racist. Can we put out message like this for the masses, even to the younger vulnerable crowd, which also happens to be Zula's target audience? If you think it is okay to immediately label people as racist this way, you are entitled to your opinion. I still firmly believe that they SHOULD voice their hurt, we SHOULD listen to their story BUT we should be careful with the delivery. Especially with blanket statements. Words carry weight.
z I would agree with you that if a patient is condescending, it can be racist. But let me ask you, if a patient barely speaks English and has limited vocabulary, are you sure all of them can form proper sentences? And again, this depends on each situation and does not apply to all Chinese patients that chose not to speak English? Furthermore, do we really know if all the Chinese patients were trying to be condescending? I mean, do you know them? Do I know them? No. And lastly, you said Malays elderly say it politely. So you’re saying Malays elderly are polite and Chinese elderly aren’t? Are you so sure to make such a generalization? Are Chinese elderly not capable of being polite? Because I think my grandma is super polite, my mum is very nice to everyone around her even though they both cannot speak Chinese. That to me, is wrong. And seems like you need to better master the art as well. To summarize, you should look at individual situation and decide whether it’s racist or not. Her delivery was wrong in that she generalized every situations she encountered as racist, and your delivery is wrong when you generalize all Malays elderly as polite whereas Chinese elderly have no manners. Anyone can be polite, and anyone can be rude. Be objective was all I said.
you just want a pro-chinese video 😑 and don’t want to accept racism exist in singapore. identifying someone by thier race means this minority person stands out from the crowd due to the colour of his skin which isn’t nice. First of racism is when you have prejudices and stereotypes based on someone’s skin colour and think they are inferior to u. i felt the video was very well-balanced you just don’t want to accept the fact that racism exist in singapore. when they say chinese people have privileges means they have less barriers to overcome. if you are dark skin u are much more vulnerable to being bullied whic causes low self esteem and low self confidence which can be carried to adulthood and have long term effects. me being dark skin i am made to feel i am ugly and undesirable and hate my own skin colour hence i have to climb one extra mountain of learning to accept my ugly dark skin which majority 70% chinese people in singapore do not have to go thorough. this is nothing to do with race if you are a minority literally in any country u will definitely face more hardships then a majority this is just facts . this are priveleges of being part of the majority. and no one should be proud of their race no human being CHOSE their race nobody CHOSE thier skin colour. nobody worked hard and earned to be any race hence it’s stupid to feel “proud “ for something you were just born with. this video literally had both sides there were guys who said “not racist “ too you just want a video that says “ racism don’t exist in sg” and don’t want to accept facts 😐 maybe in your next life you can be a minority in whatever country then only you will truly understand the pain
when she says ‘ Chinese people want to be white’ and expresses that as going to the ‘next level’, she is basically trying to normalise the superiority of a certain race, which is obviously the opposite of what this video is trying to do here. Sometimes we subconsciously believe a certain race is of a higher level because of the series of historical events (e.g the whites discriminating against the asians because of fear that they might take over in the 1920s) and this is what we have to debunk but by assuming that people want to be white because they want to go to the ‘next level’, that is outright WRONG and as people of colour we should stop having such a mentality if we want to achieve equality.theres thisChinese word ‘崇洋‘ which means looking up to/admiring the westerners and I think it should be stopped regardless of race.:) And racism is NOT believing a person of a certain race fits your preferences. It is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.(Google) By saying that he prefers someone of a specific ethnicity BECAUSE he would be able to relate to her, I think that is justifiable. It is also a double standard in a sense that ‘ I want to date a Chinese person because I am Chinese’ is perceived as more wrong or more racist than ‘ I want to date an Indian because I’m indian’. And when she says ‘ minorities have to tiptoe around Chinese people’ I really do feel sad because as Singaporeans, it should be inborn that we respect people for who they are and I truly feel it’s getting better increasingly with more generations to come. However I realised that Chinese people also feel that they have to tiptoe around minorities because they are fearful of insulting them. I remember a time in school when my Malay friends were insulting Chinese people and at that time, I felt oppressed to speak up because I’m a majority and I SHOULD endure such things because I’m ‘privileged’ and imo this is wrong. Just like it is false to say that black people cant be racist, it goes the same for other minorities too. However I 100% feel that Chinese people should be respectful to other races and likewise. I truly despise people who carry prejudices around people of other races. this brings me to my next pt on ‘racism with power’ I don’t feel that only people of a majority are racist and minorities cannot be. If we take it into perspective, does that mean I, a Chinese can only be racist in Singapore because I have ‘power’ but I cannot be racist in let’s say US because I’m part of a minority??? That just doesn’t click with me. Lastly, I feel that most of the points in this video are directed to the Chinese because they think that only the majority can be racist. If we continue to have that mindset, you’ll never solve racism because you are just ‘allowing’ or justifying a situation where a minority is racist to a person of another race. Stereotypes are and always will be there but we CANNOT use these stereotypes to judge the way we think or view a person because of the colour of their skin. It is also very wrong to use derogatory words/stereotypes of a certain race to back up your narrative,it just goes to show how immature you are that you cannot support your claim without saying such things. I know I cannot speak for the minorities in Singapore and I am definitely sure we are all appreciative of living in Singapore. I cannot envision myself living in a country like us where freedom of speech is advocated but at the expense of the safety and comfort of minority races. It is easy to criticise the negatives of societal practices/norms but at the same time, we should learn to appreciate and be thankful of what we have here in Singapore. By ranting on the very rare instances where you felt discriminated because of your race, and at the same time not acknowledging how lucky it is to be a minority living in sg as compared to other countries, you are really opening doors for young people to be skeptical and critical of living in sg. I agree with the intention of the video but it was carried out very one sidedly because racism is not something that can be instilled in a person just like that. These videos puts innocent Chinese people in a bad light because it only emphasises on racism by Chinese towards the minority and I know many other Chinese people like me who would NEVER EVER discriminate against other races.
You brought up many valid points, and I as a POC echo v similar feelings. However, I ask that you do not put down the frequent lived experiences of minorities as "very rare occurrences". As a non POC, I do not expect you to have faced the same number of instances where you've been discriminated against as us minorities. As such, its not really fair of you to call them "very rare". How would you know? Did you ask your Malay and Indian friends? Don't answer that. That was rhetorical. Minorities aren't a monolith. Furthermore, I fail to see how any of the participants here "ranted" about anything. Most of them explained their opinions in a calm and organised manner. Unless, you feel that the very act of speaking up about racism is unwarranted and rant-y, I do not think anyone did anything that resembles all the negative connotations that "rant" carries. Next, comparing ourselves with other countries on matters such as these is not really the right way to decide we're at a good position. We have lots to untangle as a society, and we should be looking inwards to find problems, not outwards to decide our problems aren't a big deal. Just because the other countries are worse off, does not mean people living here must be thankful and not critical. Nothing is ever perfect. Being critical is the only avenue to better ourselves as a nation. Not thinking all is fine and dandy cos you are unwilling to promote criticality. Additionally, I completely agree that racism cannot be instilled in a person just like that. Its a learned behavior, over years and years of passive learning, picking up on what near and dear around one say. But, what does this have to do with this conversation being one sided? Also, how was this conversation one sided? What actually is the other side to the collective argument out forth by this bunch? Lastly, while you, and many many MANY like you would never ever think to discriminate others by their race, it detracts from the main point isn't it? There still exist people who discriminate against minorities. Its these people that these conversations are deconstructing. "Im Chinese but I'm not like this" never helps the conversation. Its an obvious implicit argument that this is targeted towards offenders. So, why flounder? We aren't talking about you.
pranave2 I understand how you might think I am trivialising the situation but I certainly am not. I agree that some of the words I’ve used might have oversimplified or overgeneralise the situation. For that, I would like to apologise. Comparing ourselves with other countries enable us to appreciate what we have here, although not perfect, we know that we are indeeed improving. This does not mean Singapore is a racist-free country, I don’t think it ever will be . however, I think it’s absolutely alright to recognise the benefits of living in racially tolerant country while acknowledging said issues here in sg. This is what I was aiming for. I don’t think it’s right to criticise the government to an extent where we discard/discredit them for the effort in obstructing xenophobia from seeping into societal norms/circumstances.(although not 100% successful) The reason why I felt that the conversation was one sided was due to the unproclaimed notion of “majority do not face racism, so they won’t understand and hence should keep their opinions to themselves” it can be perceived from the way “majority” races in the video was shot down quickly when given the chance to express their views and thoughts and hence felt that it was not their place to speak up. Like I’ve said above, I too have xperienced such a scenario and it is really an unnecessary double standard. “ Did you ask your Malay and Indian friends? Don’t answer that. It was a rhetorical qn” um, firstly it is not a rhetorical qn and secondly, you don’t want me to answer it because you already know the answer to this. You know that minorities in sg have not been oppressed and by admitting to it, your point would be slightly off. I do agree that minorities in Singapore, or rather every part of the world do face a certain degree of racism due to the colour of their skin, which I stand by my point that it should not happen, especially in Singapore. Just like it was spoken about in the video, if a country has the ability to change this landscape, it would be Singapore. We have to stand together to fight this antagonism towards marginalised community and I’m for that. Lastly when you say POC, I’m assuming you are referring to person of colour. I hope you actually do realise that we are all people of colour, so maybe change to majority?
@@Amelitasim First off, thank you for acknowledging your mistake. I agree, comparison is welcome, but not at the expense of criticality, which is what you said in your last para. We can lavish in our wealth, at the same time acknowledge our short comings. I would never ask anyone not to be proud SG, but not to take that we live in the closest instance to Utopia. We need to open our eyes to see that we are still ways off, even if much better than other countries. WRT the notion that the Chinese were pigeonholed to not facing discrimination: one the first watch through (after which I responded to your comment) I could not pick up this nuance that was being brought across. However, on watching the video again, I can see how some poorly worded phrases may carry that connotation. "secondly, you don’t want me to answer it because you already know the answer to this." Yes, I didn't need an answer, because "Minorities aren't a Monolith". I also think you may have missed my point. Do you see how calling lived experiences as "very rare" comes from a place of power? To take a stand that these occurrences do not take place often comes from privilege in that you have not faced the same amount of discrimination as minorities. Furthermore, what harm can come from accepting that these occurrences are not rare and occur more frequently? The offenders are taught the error of their ways through increased discourse to hopefully rewrite their harmful stereotypes and notions. However, by dismissing minorities' experiences as one off or rare, nothing is changed, or things worsen. Isn't is for the betterment of SG society that we pay heed to the voices of minorities who raise such issues? But I am well aware that you are pro-change, and you would like to see SG better as a whole. Hence, you shouldn't be actively dismissing lived experiences of minorities.
pranave2 the last three paragraphs are talking about the same instance of racism towards minorities being “rare occurance” to which I have apologised and realised that it is wrong for me to speak of behalf of others. All in all, I really do appreciate your constructive feedback and your acknowledgement on several of my views to which we could eventually come to a common ground. Well respected, I must say!
pranave2 non poc? Since when are the chinese non poc? There are many black chinese in singapore and i am probably whiter than most if you are talking about skin color. And i am not one of them lol. And when i meant black, i meant skin tone wise. Tan and black.
Wow, Deesha! Maybe, just maybe, the movie subtitles are in Chinese because we live in a country where 75% of the population is Chinese and it appeals to the mass market. Would it make more sense to put the subtitles in Swahili then? It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with capitalism (the only colour capitalism cares about is green - money). Before we start claiming everything is racist, let us just think for a second. Maybe, Just maybe, guys don't like you/want to date you because of your individual attitude/personality if this is a reoccurring incident. We should all be accountable for our actions. It's wrong for Deesha to generalise those Indian men like Chinese women simply because of 'privilege'. To do this is to discount all the amazing endearing qualities the individual has that made them attractive in the first place. Such a straw man fallacy that removes all accountability from herself. Surprised this video doesn't have more dislikes. Misinformed and unenjoyable. Some good points though. (btw I'm an Indian male in case you're wondering)
Indians like Chinese girls because of privilege??? Then why do white guys like them? So they can oppress them? These people can make any action into a racist aggression. You can never win, so don't engage.
Instead of movies, we should be pushing for multiple language subtitles for the local news station official youtube channels. On the TV/Movies, there is a restriction since you are showing the same screen to a diverse group of people, but they can do better on youtube.
@@noshet786 True! There needed to be a moderator, someone who was not taking sides or offering opinions. It was all very one sided and one dimensional. Especially the part about dating, when it is tied to so many Other factors other than race. And as you said, a lot of their viewers are at an impressionable age...
This is a fine example of what a panel discussion should NOT be like. An objective moderator should be around to steer the conversation, and engage with statements made before moving on as it seems that most participants were allowed to make statements without much justification. Otherwise, it would just be an echo chamber with everyone making politically correct statements or sharing anecdotal experiences in which there is no meaningful discussion. Was excited to watch this when I read the title but ended up disappointed with the content. Zula has good intentions, but should ensure that there is depth in a (two-way) discussion on a sensitive topic like this one before putting it out there.
@@MaxJoseph999 another huge advantage is you don't need to find intelligent or original people. They can spend 10 mins watching videos on critical race theory and get directly to regurgitating total nonsense
how do you find an objective person when even an everyone has their own racial biases that are affected by their own lived experiences. what all these participants are doing is just sharing their experiences and to listen to each other.
i don’t think race should be a sensitive topic and i think the point of this video was not to spread an agenda or come to a definitive conclusion to the questions asked in this video. I think this video was just to start a conversation with the viewers.
Tigris 797 I agree. It’s unrealistic to have this so called ideal moderator everyone is asking for. Everyone has different lived experiences and biases. Sharing ur thoughts on racism is nothing wrong. But what’s wrong is no one constructively criticising or rebutting contradictions or correcting biases and hence perpetuating these biases and flawed arguments in the participants.
Its very disappointing people fight for no racism but do not see themselves becoming the racists. It is fine to share your negative experiences with others but to bring it far enough to say the majority are in power, chinese tryna be white and make slander comments against them, it is basically bullying your bully. Doesn't look better on you. :/
I can say you, but you cannot say me. It’s jialat. If this is how we want to have such conversations - conversations that are broadcasted and shared with a large audience - I think our society will really go downhill la.
Tbh, having a preferred race for a partner is not racist. Ultimately, everyone should be entitled to their preferences and should not be deemed a racist just because of their inclination towards a certain race for dating.
I don't think most of us identify as racist, but it's perfectly possible for non-racists to commit racist/racially prejudicial acts. We all have moral blind spots. In this specific case, instead of asking whether having racial preferences is racist, it may be a more worthwhile endeavor to ask why we have racial preferences. I wonder if these "racial preferences" are really a faulty mental shortcut for shared cultural background/socio-economic upbringing/sense of humor etc. But using race as a vector runs the risk of perpetuating unjust stereotypes as well as unnecessarily limiting your pool potential partners. I daresay most people won't be compatible with the majority of people in their own race. If I were to be more cynical, if our perception of what's attractive is determined by the media or other external influences--media portrayal of all attractive people being white, and in Singapore, Chinese, while most villains are played by minority races, or minorities being reduced to caricatures--then we ought to challenge ourselves.
Jason Li I agree with what you said about racial prejudice being engrained in our minds due to how the media portrays minority races in not a bad light per se, but an unfavourable one at that and is probably true that we would get along better with those of our same race. However, if one were to blatantly refuse someone else based solely on their race, not taking into account other traits of an individual, that is racism.
Isn’t sofeah being unconsciously racist as well when she said “ I tried to make my eyes as small as possible.” Then by that she is insinuating that Chinese people have small eyes. That itself is stereotyping and also playing on a racist joke about how Chinese people have small eyes etc.
I agree! But when she was using it as an example to showcase how incidents in her life led her to do thing that were not right and that she's ultimately shameful of, I think that's incredibly brave! To highlight a flaw in society by describing your flawed reaction to it is something not many of us have the mettle to admit in a face to face conversation. If anything we should not shoot her down for using the example to paint a picture, we should be asking ourselves why someone had to do something that we personally have to had to do regardless of our race. This of course, goes both ways :)
I feel like, as what was highlighted in 14:56, racism is discrimination with power. And while you may feel uncomfortable with this insinuation, honestly this "racist stereotype" has no bearing on us as Chinese in this society whatsoever. (plus honestly you're lying if you say that this "stereotype" has adversely affected you in any significant way in local context hahaha) I think by choosing to focus on that 1 second where she mentions this, out of the entire recount of her experience rejecting her Malay attributes for something that would be more congruent to the majority race, you're missing the point she's trying to make haha
what i don’t understand is, even chinese people themselves despise their small eyes? as someone who went to neighbourhood schools my entire life, I was constantly bullied for my small eyes, flat nose and face and fair skin? (by people of various races)
000111 My question is then why does she have this stereotype? Is this stereotype really reflective of that race ? Does this stereotype have negative connotations ? Ie when people make fun of chinese, many times, it’s about their eyes. BUT if the majority race (chinese) said remarked that kind of stereotypes against other races , then it would instantly be racist. Double standards much?
racial preferences are racist, because 'preference' means that you are prioritising one group of people, and excluding others based on race alone. you posted a comment below about stereotyping, and often this is what preference/racism is based on: assumptions we have of certain people without even getting to know them. when we create barriers of entry based on race (whether it is for jobs, dating, or housing), we are being racist. i get that this is hard to reconcile or understand for many because it is something we do everyday - we make assumptions about people, we include & exclude people based on race, gender, sexuality etc. but this is where we have to stop and ask ourselves: why do i only date (or want to date) people from a certain race? what biases do i have that i haven't realised? am i being unfair to people by excluding them because of assumptions i have? what can i do about that?
@@deeshamenon6178 Just curious on your opinion on this! I agree that it's wrong to have assumptions of people without even getting to know them and that there should still be some level of openness in getting to know people of other races before deciding whether or not to date them. However, I do think race is not purely a label but comes with certain valid conjectures for instance, someone who is Chinese would tend to have a certain culture and upbringing, and having a "preference" for a certain race would also mean have a preference for a particular background/culture/mindset - these are large and important parts of someone which I can see why many would take into consideration when choosing a partner, and many of which are heavily influenced (but I agree not determined) by race. Hence, I would think it is not necessarily "racist" to have a certain "preference" in mind - as based on likelihood and probability (which are natural to assess) they may tend to fit a certain culture which is influenced by race.
@@deeshamenon6178 going with your notion, would i be "sexist" if i said i would never consider dating someone who was gay and attracted to my gender, when i am straight? to me it falls in the same line as personal preference. and i get that who's to say whats racist or not with regards to one's justification for their racial preference. if it's something as trivial as preference, i know it still shouldnt get brushed off, but most of the time (hopefully) there is no malicious intent in someone stating their preference. and not everyone's racial preference will remain unchanged throughout their love life. some people are just simply more comfortable with being intimate with someone else of their own race. let them be in their comfort zone. i am mixed myself (filipino + chinese) and like thomas, i identify very much as chinese because of the way i was brought up here in sg. i have never been exposed to my filipino roots - nonetheless, still proud of the heritage that i can discover on my own time. and like thomas, i admit i am more comfortable with dating chinese people. of course i would be open to dating people of other races too though; it all comes down to chemistry. edit: and what thoughts would you have regarding people who date people of other races, mainly for the sake of being in an interracial relationship? thats excluding people of their own race, and including people of other races. thats also a kind of racial preference that exists. thats still using other races to define a person. what do you think?
@@deeshamenon6178 ohmygod dating a person is such a personal choice. It affects our lives greatly because we might even go on to form a family with them. It is different from housing and jobs, to be frank, I don't even understand why housing is brought up in this topic. Isn't the government in control of HDB selection because they're trying to ensure that all races live together? So there will never be the issue of all chinese living in the north or all malays living in the west or all Indians living in the east. There's no segregation. All races live peacefully. Why are people saying there's racism present? Can anyone enlighten me on this? For jobs, I may understand that people could behave in insensitive manners. Like not wanting to hang out or eat with a certain race due to culture preferences like muslims have to eat halal and the chinese tend to prefer non-halal food. I, myself am vegetarian and I understand how difficult it is for people to eat with me. Because we have to find places that serve vegetarian food. I completely respect others' decisions if they don't want to eat with me, because it's not convenient and certain days they may have cravings. I don't think they're discriminating against me. Before I chose to be vegetarian, I already know of the social effects and I accept it and decided to go ahead regardless. There will be friends or people who don't mind and that's a bonus. I'm not saying that "oh I'm a Muslim and therefore I should accept that it's difficult to eat with me because I only go for halal-certified foods. Oh this is the consequence of choosing to practise Islam." I'm just saying that people tend to have their own preferences and lifestyle habits and it's not wrong if things don't suit or go their ways. And back to dating preferences, I understand it sounds discriminatory when people say "I don't date a certain race". Have you thought further why do people say that? Could it be due to the way they were nurtured and brought up, and heavily influenced by their own culture? For example what Thomas said. He said he's brought up predominantly by a chinese mother and therefore, prefers dating a Chinese. Whereas his brother was brought up by a European father, and therefore he prefers dating Europeans. These 2 cultures alone are already very different in the way how people think and behave. How a chinese behaves vs a how european behaves. This goes back into the lifestyle habits I was talking earlier like food for example. Perhaps a pork obsessed person only wants to find a partner who shares his passion in food, and go on food hunts, and this way of living is how he wants to live. Is it therefore discriminatory that this person doesn't want to date a vegetarian? No! Because it doesn't fit into their lifestyles. Unless this person loves his vegetarian partner enough that he's willing to give that dream up. I think interracial marriages are a bonus, for the difficulties faced in integrating 2 different cultures. It shouldn't be expected as a norm and if people don't date a different race, you label them as racist. This term "racist" is then loosely thrown around. No one will take it seriously when it's used in future trust me, if this term keeps getting loosely used around. I think what Thomas meant is that he'll CONSIDER dating a different race if they share similar traits. But after considering how he wants to live his life with his partner, he has decided he wants to only date Chinese due to sharing the same culture or lifestyle habits. In my opinion, it is not wrong and not racist. If today a chinese reject you, why not go and find another chinese who will accept you? It can't be that in a population of 5.6 million, with 70% being chinese, there's no single person that will date a different race. If someone you want to date says "I don't date your race", you could perhaps prove to him/her that you're eligible and have good qualities. If he/she does not want then, it's their loss. Flip you hair, walk away and find another one. All the best.
The way I see it is that racism is when you think you’re superior to another race or have the intent to hurt them. Statements like “you may sit beside the Indian girl/Chinese boy” is not racist at all because it is for identification purposes. Y’all gonna get even more offended when someone says “You may sit beside the dark skinned woman” anyway when no one meant it as an insult. If you guys are gonna go by this logic then I’m gonna say some of the minorities in this vid are racist af, repeatedly calling out “Chinese” for being racist just because they are the majority. Which brings me to the point that having privilege does not equal racism. It just mean you have the power to help. Why would you even want to help people who DEMANDS the help anyway? Lmao.
The WisePlant Racism is not just black and white. There are many aspects to racism. Casual racism, systemic racism, institutional racism are also forms of racism. I agree that what you have pointed out may not be racism about the indian girl/chinese boy but maybe the dark skinned woman part wouldn't be desirable. Yes, it's a description, but you have to understand that dark skinned people have been oppressed for many many years and for them to be a little "sensitive" is justifiable. There are better ways to do so. "The dark skinned woman" just sounds demeaning. People are DEMANDING action because we have been oppressed for way too long. Some people may be too aggressive but do not belittle the efforts of others who are genuine. Also, to reply to your reply to me (couldn't find your comment), yes, I was unconsciously racist once because of how I was taught since young. But I learn the good, and unlearnt the bad. I am now more conscious of my thoughts and actions. Can you say the same for yourself? If yes, then good. Please continue to support the minorities.
Luqman Huqqim I agree the world is ambiguous and it would best if everyone can be more sensitive to each other. But what I’m highlighting is the dangerous issue that some minorities actually think they’re not racist just because they’re minorities. And this shouldn’t be justifiable. What I’m trying to say is that people should practice what they preach and not call people out for being a racist while doing the exact same bullshit. I totally agree with every single point you mentioned though. It’s not very thoughtful to call someone “dark skinned” cos they may be affected (which shouldn’t be the case cos there’s nothing wrong being dark). I was using it as an example to show that there’s indeed no b/w line, cos people have different awareness and sensitivity levels. Some get triggered, some don’t even see a prob cos they’re proud of their skin (amazing). Ultimately it goes both ways. We’ve to kindly educate those who’re subconsciously racist, outright racist, and also those who’re more sensitive (To not take everything as a personal attack. Cos it’s dangerous if you think the world is coming at you when it may be just pure intentions) I am not belittling the efforts of those who are genuine and I will continue supporting the minorities too. Hopefully one day we’ll come to a point no one will feel ashamed of their skin colour and calling someone dark or fair will not be deemed as “demeaning”, but just a statement. Sorry if I came across as aggressive with my arguments.
lmao majority of any country on earth will always be more racist compared to the minorities this is just FACTS! nothing to do with being chinese or not but being part of majority/minority. It is facts that MAJORITY of racist people in sg are chinese cuz they are the majority hence it is natural. but I am against all forms of racism against anyone. But you cant deny minorities face far more racism compared to majority. Just ask any minority person almost all have a personal story of racism but less chinese would face racial discrimination as they are the majority. You cant even handle one person being racist to u imagine being A MINORITY and facing stereotypes, discrimination, racism and prejudices on a much more occasional basis. and you cant even complain about it as people like u will claim they are just "sensitive" smh! you clearly lack empathy. chinese people want to make racist jokes and minorites cant even complain about it as they will be labelled as "sensitive" but when racist jokes are made against the chinese they start crying here is an example : www.asiaone.com/digital/french-student-singapore-slammed-defending-slanted-eye-instagram-post-says-its-not-racist?amp nowadys if you go and read any facebook commnets there is never ending racsim against indians and CECA, yet we cant complain if not we are are "sensitive" smh!! and in a classroom where there are all chinese and one malay student and the teacher says " sit beside the malay guy" it is a reminder that the malay person is differnt from everyone else in the room as the teacher wont say " sit beside the chinese guy" as everyone is chinese ( as they are the majority ) you dont understand what it feels like to walk into a room knowing you will never fit in cuz of the colour of your skin which you didnt even choose, is like being punished for something you are born with. I dare you to be a minority and go through the prejudice, racism, discrimination and stereotypes and you cant even complain about it if not you are just "sensitive" you have to be emotionally strong or else u will just drown
@@spots- To your first paragraph - I agree. The majority of any country is always going to have more privileges. Like you said, it’s natural. In Sg’s case, it’s the Chinese who has it. *I did not deny that minorities are facing more racism. * Do you realise what we are arguing about are mutually exclusive points? Like comparing apples and oranges. You’re saying: Minorities face racism more (Which I don’t deny) While I’m saying: Practice what you preach By quoting the article, you contradicted your own point about being racist because you’re letting that one Chinese who cried represent the whole race as being “butt-hurt”. When we should be seeing them as individuals. Can I just conclude: 1) I am not denying that minorities are facing less racism. 2) I just dont like seeing people making points that contradict themselves 😭 3) I am not invalidating your feelings To your “Sit beside Chinese/Malay boy” example. It is very sad that you and some other people who feel that being different is a bad thing. I do wish you change that mindset. Good luck to you. I’d recommend the following books: -The things you can see only when you slow down by Haemin Sumin -101 ways that will change the way you think by Brianna Wiest -The courage to be happy by Ichiro Kiroshimi
@@boiledpotato9826 when you are a child it is natural to want to fit in, nobody wants to be different and be treated differently, being darker skin or non-chinese makes one more vulnerable to bullying, racism which affects the child's self-esteem and self-confidence which can be carried forward to adulthood and have long term effects, personally i can relate well with other asian americans as they know also know how it feels like to be the odd one out. Maybe you should go and interact with chinese americans to know what it feels like to be a minority. NO CHILD WANTS TO BE DIFFERENT AND EVERYONE WANTS TO FIT IN . it is natural and human emotions to feel this.imo i feel like you lack empathy, what goes around comes around. And it wasn't one chinese who cried it was many hence there was an article on it.
i dont see having race preference in dating is racist. like when we take race out of the equation, we tend to find someone who we are able to relate with, someone who is similar/familiar. this itself can be broken into different aspects such as interests and goals in life (which are not race-based), and traditions and customs (which are dependent by our race). as someone who doesn’t really prioritises my own cultural traditions as an important aspect in life, this could explain why im open to dating people of various races. however, if such traditions, or any other race-influenced aspects of life, are of priority for others, they may tend to date within their own race since that’s what they find similarity and familiarity in.
15:14 this is the most double standard thing ive ever heard of. ridiculous how noone called her out on that BS. how can you sit there and justify discrimination and denounce racism when discrimination is basically a precondition of racism?!
How is it that my dating race preference a racist? I’m chinese and can’t choose to only want and would only date chinese? Is it a crime to reject someone of the opposite race? Just because of one person from the opposite race reject you and you dating pool insanely decreased!? Thats really a power of one person. 18:01, it could be the parent of the child who are mandarin speaker and they can’t converse in English. Therefore they would prefer a chinese tutor so that they can communicate with, such as requirement/instruction/feedbacks rather than been racist. 18:32 the older people might have trouble expressing themselves therefore rather speak to a chinese for better communication. I mean how else would they know that you understand mandarin and could converse with you if you don’t let them know?
Here's an idea. People should hire and associate with whoever they like. I prefer it if an employer states their racial preference. Do you really want to work at place where they dislike your race? Do you want to date someone that would prefer you were a different race? I don't understand what these people are asking for.
Honestly I thought that this conversation they're having is really zeroing on just that ONE factor; which is race. I would think that people will pull in other factors first before even thinking about race when considering a partner. The way they tunneled in on the preference based on race is really close minded. For example, there numerous factors like religion, age, education, occupation, etc to consider. If I am a staunch Christian Chinese, I would *generally* not be looking to date a Muslim (of any race) as in Singapore, the overwhelming majority of Muslims ARE Malays. Is that being racist?! Similarly, a Malay Muslim would not be looking for a Catholic or a Hindu Indian partner. Perhaps because of beliefs, ease of transition into another culture etc. And like Sofeah said, it makes it easier for both sides cause language might be an issue. They should have included other factors and less "everything is linked to race" when truly, it is not.
I mean this video is so interesting bc a member of this discussion says how Chinese people are the model citizen and yet I, as a singaporean, who lives overseas in a white majority country has never experienced this. The racial discrimination Chinese people face, especially during covid, in white majority countries is unbelievable and I wonder how my perspectives of racism would be if I had grown up in Singapore my whole life.
Racism happens because we don't understand each other enough, we don't empathy with each other enough, sometimes not knowing our heritage enough, regardless of majorities or minorities. It's a blessing to live in such a multicultural and diverse country that is rarely seen in the world. Learn from each other strengths and continue to prosper as a stronger nation. Don't let racism divides instead.
As a Chinese, I have seen and regarded Malay singers sing English songs better than Chinese because of their pronunciation/slang or whatsoever (which I'm guessing arises from Malay language). Malays also generally have sharp, handsome, pretty facial features. Am I now being racist for regarding Malays well? The above 2 points are made in comparison with Chinese (for example my spoken English is heavily Chinese-accented and I have blunt features), am I being racist to Chinsse? Even if I am racist, I do think Chinese agree and accept and do not take offense. By the way, i don't see a problem with elderly patients not wanting to speak to her. They just want to speak to doctors who can communicate in Mandarin. And it is normal to assume Malays dont usually speak Chinese. If today a patient meets an American doctor and refuses to speak to him, I do not think the American would regard it is racist.
"Am I now being racist for regarding Malays well?" Honestly? No, provided the premise is well-established. First of all, you must understand that the term 'Malay' in the modern Singapore context is very plastic. As in, Malay culture has traditionally been more fluid than most people of other races give credit for. The plasticity of Malay culture allows for anyone of ethnic Austronesian, as well as non-Austronesian heritage to identify as & thus, marry into the Malay gene pool. Thus, the bewildering facial features that is atypical of pure Malay (including it's various Austronesian alias). Myself? An individual of mixed heritage but conveniently ascribed as being 'Malay' due to my supposedly not looking Chinese enough (despite my having East Asian facial features) & definitely not Indian-esque. Not keen to brag here but to highlight my point, people have described me as a handsome guy which I attribute it to more than just my Malay heritage. "I like your nose. Slim. Sharp. With a well-defined bridge." I do have Arab & Pakistani decent. "You do look like a Chinese guy at a glance but damn you're built & buff." No mystery there. My face has Chinese features but my light tan complexion & stately built is from my Austronesian & Middle-Eastern heritage. East Asians generally tend to be of a more slender, graceful built. Malays? Absolutely built like German tiger tanks. So, am I Malay? By logic, no. And it is precisely because I embody so many traits from various ethnicities that my features aren't well, as you put it "blunt." Still, there is one thing about Malays in general that you might have noticed. And that is the innate style exhubed in the way we carry ourselves. Most Malay men are just naturals when it comes to 'tangkap handsome' (charming others) & sweet-talk, while Malay women exhube a very sweet, feminine demeanor. That is purely cultural. Malay culture gravitates heavily towards soft, sensitive & artistic self-expression. From orating to singing. Thus, the chock-full of Malay singers from start to end of the Singapore Idol seasons (whom all Singaporeans, not just Malays voted for). Lastly, I just wanted to say that you need not compare your ethnic Chinese features with ours or anyone, for that matter. Why? Beauty knows no race. Genetics decide who gets to look good & who gets to look average. There are also pretty & handsome Chinese people too. So, being Chinese is not a limiting factor. Of course, when someone comes from a mixed heritage their genetic makeup is far more diverse. Thus, their odds of looking more exotic & more attractive stacks higher. The Malays you see aren't even pure Malays, anymore.
For the lady who works in the hospital: I think it would be racist if she said I'm Malay and I speak Chinese and the patients wouldn't want to speak to her. In this case she explained she could speak Chinese and they happily talked after. While racism definitely exists, language rather than race seems to be the issue here. I am extremely paranoid and would definitely prefer not to communicate in any language I am not comfortable with in a hospital for fear of miscommunication. I think more empathy for the elderly patients would be nice.
There's quite a bit of group think going on here where assumptions were made, went on unchallenged and then became the premise of the conversation. For example, older people are more likely to be racist, the prevalence of Chinese privilege and how that is the norm, etc. I think we need more diversity in this conversation, not so much racial diversity but rather thought diversity. I have a feeling, if we were to include older adults in this conversation, some of our own parents even, the discussion would have taken on a fairly different tone. We don't have to agree with each others opinions and ideals but that doesn't mean we should discount their points of view and experiences just because they aren't as enlightened/ aware as the "woke" generation. There seems to be a need to correct people's behaviors. Case in point, where the final question was asked, what have you(the interviewees) learnt from this discussion, I believe this to be a wrap-up, self reflective question. Instead of looking inward, the whole segment was just the interviewees (with the borderline exception of John) preaching and telling people how they should go about perceiving their world, their friends, their acquaintances. This I know, is not how to win the hearts and minds of the populace. For an individual to look outward and say that society has this, this and this number of flaws is indicative that we are just here to rant and perhaps are not in the ideal frame of mind to be problem-solving yet. We should look at our society, understand it and accept it in its current state and then have conversations about solutions and how we can phase them in. This "post-racial-utopia", how is it defined? Is it a world where we don't see the differences between our races? If so, then I can almost conclusively say that I want no part in it. There is diversity in this world, there are going to be differences and people are going to recognize it. It is the same diversity that makes our world such a place of intrigue with such interesting peoples and cultures. Just as there is beauty in diversity there will also be clashing ideas, thoughts and beliefs, there is no one side without the other. It's how we handle diversity that makes the difference rather than pointing at each other, accusing one side of stereotypes or the other side of being the dominant privileged majority. There is diversity, we live with it and embrace it as you will. As an Los Angeleno observer, this is something I recognize that Singapore has done exceptionally well. It's in our nature to group and classify things into categories driven by our need to quickly identify and gain familiarity when thrown into a new environment or meeting someone for the first time. I don't think that this is an instinct one can completely eradicate at the individual level, what more at the societal level? There will be issues in which we will need to educate the general public on with rules and laws but more likely, there will be times and places where we will need to learn to be patient, tolerate and educate where appropriate. We cannot just wish away racism by calling people out in the heat of the moment, it is a recurring issue that virtually has no end but needs to be constantly addressed to keep things at socially acceptable/sustainable levels. I'm sure we've all made mistakes one way or another and its likely that the next generation and the generation after will make racially incorrect mistakes too, it's all part of our growing up. As a society we must understand that there will be mistakes along the way but the mark of a mature, truly progressive society is that when needed, society has the capacity to address, correct and where only absolutely necessary, punish these mistakes. However, I believe that we must first learn to be tolerant and more forgiving as a people. It would be ideal that as a citizenry, we have enough social bandwidth to allow for our younger ones or those who are less socially adept to be able to make these growing-up mistakes (within reason) and at the same time, be able to afford the opportunity to correct their socially unacceptable behavior. This could take years for the individual but it must be met with both patience and the will and drive to apply a correction. Given the right environmental and social conditions we can help shorten this learning curve eh? Takes a village to raise a child but it is absolutely vital. Tough love as they call it. To me, a resilient society is not one that has absolute-zero racism while at the same time is completely incapable of handling one incident without society tripping over itself and causing more division. Rather, a resilient society is one that can weather a blow or two and is able to self-correct.
I get the impression that the younger generation are very brainwashed by western media into thinking that no racism means taking all the race diversity away and everyone just act more westernised. You are right that this conversation is very one-sided.
i disagree just because racism exist everywhere doesn’t EXCUSE one from being a racist if my friends are racist i will stand up for myself and call them up on their bullshit or just stop talking to them. to me a resilient society is seeing an individual as a person instead of the colour of thier skin. if someone judges another person just based on the colour of thier skin they are a racist, as not everyone from the race all act the same way and have the same personality
I think this is a very poor conversation. The last question, is it better to say brown or malay person? In a race utopia, this question is invalid because there should be no negative connotations to either terms. Unfortunately the conversation delved into who identifies with what, but the question is how would a stranger identify you? Theres nothing wrong with pointing out that you’re a minority. In some subset of a group you will always be a minority. The shortest, the tallest..whats wrong with being a minority in such instance? It is only really an issue if you use race to describe a negative attribute to a person, because likely race isnt the factor for that negative attributr i.e lazy
hi just want to say that i respect your opinion and know where you're coming from, but you need to understand that society has already created this stigma. Hence you saying there should be no negative connotations to the terms I feel personally you aren't entirely trying to put yourself in the minority's position. Great that you think of it this way but not everyone has that same mindset like you. I disagree that this is a poor conversation because speaking about racism is not easy especially in Singapore. I think it's great that at least our generation of youth and young adults are having these open conversations to start creating awareness. It's not a poor conversation, its better than none :)
not true if you are a minority MOST of the time in wherever room u go to u will stand out cuz of the colour of your skin hence when someone says “indian/ malay” person it is a reminder that you will never truly fit into society as you will always stand out and you are different from the majority of the people in this room and how come when a room filled with chinese they give the basic courtesy to call the person with thier name but if is a minority they just say “ malay / indian guy “
@@llyyddiiiaaa are you saying you're offended by the term minority or brown? How? Since when did society say those words were negative? I'm from UK and I've never heard those words used as slurs or have negative connotation to them.
@@spots- doesnt it depend on the circumstance. People point out someone in a way someone will know who they mean. If someon is a minority it's easy to describe them that way especially if the person you are talking to doesn know that persons name. I dunno..it really depends on the situation.
The only point that I feel is contentious is the preference in race for partners, being termed racist. Could someone not just have a preference for a certain outlook, however superficial it is?
Dating is by definition discriminatory. Hiring someone is by definition discriminatory, we hired the best person for the job, we try our best to look purely at merits, skillset, attitude and personality of the person. However dating has an attractiveness component to it which differs from person to person, is there a case for racism? Sure, our environment and culture shape what we view as attractive which favours the majority race
I think I lost my eyeballs, I rolled my eyes too many times. Also that Indian girl went one whole big round just to self praise. Also, talking about ironic. How many fucking times did they refer to Chinese / Chinese boy & when Thomas pointed out oh you’d rather people refer to yall as brown & they just went with it lmfaoooo yeah OK maybe get a more intelligent group to hold a proper convo, they were being utterly dismissive look at the body language of the Indian girl when Thomas was speaking & she was so quick to shoot him down, John was probably holding back so much. Horrible “discussion” just because you’re a “minority” doesn’t make everything you say valid or true.
Regarding Sofeah's situation where elderly patients do not want to speak to her, I find that there's nothing wrong with it. The elderly chinese patient most likely wants to speak to someone who can speak Chinese because they are more comfortable with the Chinese language, and based on Sofeah's dark skin complexion, it would be normal/intuitive to assume that she is not chinese and would therefore be unable to speak chinese. The patients have nothing against your race but rather they are looking for someone who can best assist them in their need.
A lot of people make excuses for the elderly because they come from a different time. It's ok for the elderly to only receive care from people of their own race, it's ok for the elderly to only hire people from their own race, it's ok for the elderly to only rent out properties to certain races because that's what's comfortable to them, that's their personal preferences. The problem with this is it simply continues the cycle of pushing out others who are not like you, and it gives the younger generation a bad example. A little child who saw such behavior might form the opinion that oh only chinese health care workers are competent.
Dewi Mulyanidewi she is talking about elderly in a hospital. Who are vulnerable & need assistance. I’m sure being a racist is the last thing on their minds. Please don’t take things out of context just to push your narrative.
@@cryingstereos are you sure? Human are a complex species. Just because the elderly are weak and frail, doesnt mean they cant project their disgust feeling to other.
As a minority myself (I'm Eurasian), this "discussion" feels more like a echochamber to me lmaoo. Anyways, this video is a perfect example of what I think is wrong with how race is being approached nowadays. People like to think that racism has to have some sort of power dynamic, when it really doesn't. Racism is me thinking im superior to somebody just because of my race and anybody can do that. At one point during this video, one of the girls there said that racism is "discrimination with power", which clearly proves my point in how biased conversations on race has become. I've personally met many chinese people who have also had similar experiences when they date outside their own race with their in laws, and have also had many sterotypes and racist jokes thrown at them (like how minorities make fun of them for "looking the same", having smaller eyes as if its a bad thing etc.) She implies that these experiences and racism towards chinese people is apparently less serious just because they are a majority race and they are apparently "holding more power." Wtf? Also she is ironically painting minorities as defenseless or weak by the statement, which is no different from racism. We can defend ourselves thanks. Also, Chinese people are not trying to be white lol. The fact that you guys say that minorities are trying to be chinese (which we are not), and the chinese people are trying to be white speaks of an inferiority complex more than anything. And Thomas, as a fellow Eurasian, pls stop calling yourself "white" or identifying as "ang moh" or "white." Seeing Eurasians do this is just embarrassing. It makes it look like we are insecure of us being seen as asians and that we should continue to seek for the validation of whites to have an identity.
Obviously didn't have a Eurasian upbringing and either didn't know that his Eurasian not white or Chinese or his mom refused to identify him under us!!! I am Eurasian of two European countries and some Chinese from my late Indonesian Chinese grandma from my dad's side but didn't have that upbringing!!! Totally Eurasian guy and upbringing from both sides!!!!
Luckily, Singapore is about 5 years behind the USA on going down this path of intersectional critical race theory. We can see it destroy them before it destroys us, and adjust accordingly.
you just want the video to say “ there is no racism in sg 😑 “ and a pro-chinese video because this video is highlighting the racism that exist in sg you are just upset 😑
Fair points. Appreciate the brave sharing from all parties. Don't agree with the SJW talking points like racism = discrimination + power, because that's a sleight of hand to make the claim that the minority can't be racist. It's not true, and minorities shouldn't believe this lie. Your words can hurt a person even if the recipient is from the majority race. It especially hurts people in the middle-ground (who may be insensitive or ignorant), but who fundamentally are more than willing to be your friend/ally. So don't buy that bullshit - your words have power. Take responsibility for it. Don't be the very thing you abhor. What isn't discussed enough is that there is racism in two forms: (i) racism as insensitivity and ignorance (which happens just naturally because we don't naturally put ourselves in each other's shoes - but note the fair point - is hurtful nonetheless), and (ii) racism in the form of hatefulness (usually more due to the racist's own disenfranchisement/circumstances and so they lash out to the Other group - think along the lines of KKK type racism). When you call someone 'racist', it has connotations of type (ii), rather than type (i). Simple test - just imagine being called a 'racist'. How does it make you feel? For most people, it feels like shit. If you're in your own academic bubble or have done a little mental gymnastics, you might say 'it's okay what, all of us are racist'. But be more human lah. Instinctively what's your response. If every day a stranger came up to you and say 'eh you are racist' - would you still feel hunky dory? Simple fact is that it feels like you are being called a horrible person. That's why it's a stupid question to be asking 'is XX behaviour racist?' And you can see it in the divided responses. People can't quite see the wrongness in, say, liking a people of a certain race - they don't see anything hateful about it, and therefore they go 'no what, not racist'. When really what you probably mean to ask is 'is it ignorant and potentially hurtful?' Try asking that question and I'm sure you have a lot of people change their answers to a 'yeah lah, of course it sucks to be rejected on that basis (but it is my freedom to do so)'. Point is, it is ingrained in us to recognise 'racism' as something abhorrent and unacceptable, but 'ignorance' can be tolerated in some cases. And in this case, people are entitled to be ignorant, especially in matters of the heart. It's their own freedom to be stupid if they want to, to like people of a certain race if they want to. You should have no say in it. Even if it hurts people. And you definitely have no right to call them horrible people for it. So learn to make the distinction and you might get a better conversation going. I know it sucks to be born a minority and have to deal with it, your life is on a higher difficulty setting. But do recognise the fact that most people are just ignorant and bodoh, rather than hateful or malicious. If it gets tiring, then see if you can disconnect and take a break. Once you've recharged, try again? No choice. If you can, you're so much stronger than most people. If cannot, it's not your fault either. And if it's any consolation, there are more people willing to be open/learn once they get to know you, and you have a chance to educate them, than there are those who just out to hurt you and bring you down.
A Low These are great points and by far, the best comment I’ve across here. I agree with you 100%. It is not helpful to label an ignorant person a “racist” even if you believe deep down that he is because that will only serve to alienate him further and potentially cause greater pushback (as we have seen in the past couple of years). For the ignorant/insensitive group, it is easier to either (1) ignore or (2) engage with them civilly and not resort to name-calling. As much as I believe race activists have their hearts in the right place, it would be more helpful for them to be realistic in their discourse.
I think you made some good points about the two diff types of racism but 1) why do minorities have to suffer because people are ignorant? Not sure if you are a minority, but if you are not, this comes across as q insensitive I think? And 2) why would we not have a right to call people who hurt other people horrible?? Like you can ignorant but you shouldn't hurt people what
@@brendayeong89 for 1) Minorities don't, and they shouldn't suffer because people are ignorant. No one should. That's why I say it sucks that minorities have to go through life with a higher difficulty setting. I don't want it either, but that is the way it is. All we can think about is what we can do about it. We don't have a magic wand, so the only way to fix and mitigate these imperfections is by education - which leads us to point 2) people don't learn from being called horrible. Calling them horrible will make things worse. If you observe race relations in other countries, especially the US and the UK, you will see that it creates even more divide, and even more racism. It shifts from just plain 'ignorance' where there is a chance for learning, to people having a bad experience, and that leads them to turning into the type (ii) group I mentioned earlier - people being resentful and hateful. On the other hand, showing people how they are being unknowingly hurtful would at least give them a chance to realise that they have unknowingly caused pain (most people don't want to cause pain to others) - hopefully, they still have the chance to apologise to the person they caused hurt to, and if not, at least they can be careful not do it to the next person. And that's how we must all work together for race relations to improve.
This is a difficult conversation to have with friends, let alone publish online. Definitely an increasingly unforgiving platform. I don't agree with a few of the points in the video (not a fan of using large, vague ideological frameworks to view the issue and the term 'racism' has become so polysemic with new connotations every other day it is hard to keep up) and I've seen some harsh comments made in the comments section, but valuable discussions are never a walk in the park and ultimately it made me rethink about the issue and it broadened my empathy so i guess the video has served its purpose (for me la at least lol) . Thanks for the work put into this!
I think its a well balanced discussion. The lady of Punjabi descent put up a well balanced argument whereas I feel that the other 2 ladies were either being too biased or slightly radical. If everything is taken at its 'technical term' then everyone is either racist at at least one point in their lives or another. It is also naive to say that it is racist to assume that he or she would not know if she is able to blend into another's family (when it comes to dating). The information regarding specific cultures (Muslim cultures etc) are overwhelmingly abundant. To dive into an interracial relationship without thinking about cultural implications would be fundamentally irresponsible to both parties. So if being responsible is racist, I'd rather be racist.
I can't relate much to the racist part since i'm part of the majority race. But.. The backhanded compliments part reminds me of how some people view individuals with disabilities "I feel inspired by your achievement." is the most common "compliment" I get.
People speaking in their native language is not racist. My family is Chinese but don't speak Mandarin. At her workplace, my mum has to constantly deal with colleagues that constantly rattle off in Mandarin despite them knowing she does not speak Mandarin. Is this racism? If in my story my mum was a minority instead, would it automatically make it a case of racism? People are too quick to judge and label people as racist. It's this same kind of dangerous rhetoric that is used by racists and applied to minorities (cases of white Americans attacking non-whites for speaking their native language in public).
if a group off people starts to speak in mandarin and leave one person out of the convo cuz they dont speak mandarin it shows how ride they are. i have been in cases when people will ignore me and start speaking in mandarin i just take it as a sign that they dont want to be my friend hence would distant myself away form them cuz they dont want to speak to me
dude how is it racist that i have a racial preference when it comes to dating??? ok maybe if friends, i might deem it as racist but dating???? if i have a preference for tall guys, am i discriminating those who are short?? yes, we might potentially have the same chemistry, but dude it’s my preference whether or not i want my partner to be tall/short/bespectacled/fair/tan/old/young/malay/indian/chinese/eurasian. just cause race is the factor, you deem it as racist? that’s some crap i’m hearing
Well, then its really sad to think that you could only fall in love or be in love with someone within your "preferences". How about this, let me turn around the question and ask you why isnt ur preference a short , ugly, brownface, african.. etc.. Like having a preference itself induces to having not prefer something more than the other ( in the context of racial / dating preferences ) I mean why don't just admit that your preferences are much more ideal because they look a certain way as oppose to someone who doesn't fit your criteria because you naturally assume that you will be more likely to be in love with your ideal "type" when truth of the matter is you wont be able to prove this ideal preference would be your partner someday. If only u dealt deeper, realise that perhaps racism has its roots in you so deep you can't even tell if it exists.
Albus Severus I really appreciate your response to my opinion and to each of their own. It’s true, sometimes it’s sad that I want (not could) to fall in love with people within my preferences. I have met people who are younger than me, shorter than me, etc and I must say, we do have great chemistry but as superficial as it sounds, I just don’t want. I am not denying that people of my preference are ideal, it’s definitely true. Why would I want to date someone who is totally my type with the same chemistry as compared to someone who is not my type but still have the same chemistry? Preferences are all about human feelings, there is no right or wrong. You can’t force a person to like everything! Then the word ‘preference’ would not exist at all. They are feelings. For example, I want a cat as a pet because it’s my preference. You can’t force me to open up my mind to buy a dog or a fish or a hamster as a pet. Yes, any other animal might satisfy my wants of having a pet, but it’s just not what I want. But some may argue that if hiring someone based on race is racist, dating someone based on race is racist too. Hiring someone is based on objective factors like skills and experiences, not subjective factors like feelings. Know the difference and don’t assume that everything is racist just because the word ‘race’ is in the question.
@@albusseverus5996 Imagine asking a gay person why isn't your preference someone of the opposite gender? Why don't you try dating the opposite gender to find out? If you have tried dating the opposite gender and it didn't work out, maybe you haven't found the right person of the opposite gender. Why do you assume that you are only attracted to the same gender?
@Prem Varun 1. Not all Chinese people have Western names 2. Not all Chinese date Western men 3. Stop generalising everybody based on a handful of people please.
Regarding Sofeah comments on old chinese patients deterring her due to their assumption of she being unable to speak chinese. I feel maybe the old chinese patients were just afraid that there is a language barrier between them and her and also it will require a lot more effort in conversing for them since most of them aint english speaking. They aren’t being racist.
Having a racial preference in dating shouldn’t be immediately called racist. First, it’s your own choice on what you think is attractive. Secondly there are reasons why ppl wouldn’t date a certain race like food or culture. I had a friend who would never date Malay because she loves eating pork which is obv not halal. My Malay mother in law wouldn’t have had dated a chinese guy because she only eats Malay food and nothing else. Then there are conservative ppl who would only marry ppl of the same race just for the sake to conserve the “pure” bloodline, which I really don’t know what to think of it. But there are also ppl who wouldn’t date ppl of a certain race because of the pre conceived notion that they had which may not be true or not apply to the majority of that race. This reason behind that preference is then racist. Everyone has their own preference and immediately calling them racist is just wrong.
Daniel Lim no you’re not. It’s very normal because it’s respect to the religion. My boyfriend said that he didn’t want me to convert for the sake of marriage but to really learn and accept the religion before converting. I personally also think it’s not right to convert just for the sake of marriage. Then again there are couples that do that and it’s their choice, as Long as they talked it out with each other and looked through their options
I might be late to reply now but I grew up in a mixed culture household and there are some that still practices their own religion while respecting the other. So for me it opens up that I’m currently also dating someone of the opposite race and religion. But it’s not wrong, most don’t convert because forcing is wrong. But it’s true having preference doesn’t rlly make you racist in some sort
So being a minority automatically makes you the arbiter of this debate? Where's the discussion here if you're going to label the majority race as 'part of the problem' automatically without hearing the nuances? This is dangerous rabbit hole, yes sure we always need to remind ourselves ourselves of the past(racial riots) and learn from the mistakes made by our forefathers. We should celebrate our diversity, our history and our strengths. However this whole privilege ideology only exist if you dwell in it. When i was young i would play soccer with my Malay friends, there was only 2 of us whom are Chinese and the rest Malays. Sure occasionally we would get the different treatment, sometimes it would be the speak only Malay to each other the whole game or the team selection where my Chinese peer would get picked last. So now did i complain Malay privilege in this instance? No, we all became good friends, even close brothers til this day and my Kawans even encouraged us picking up several lingo along the way. Also the other Chinese friend of ours would get picked last because he wasn't really a good player to begin with Haha This is dangerous now because if we claim Chinese privilege exist then you are perpetuating that the Minorities in Singapore are inferior or at least that they have to feel that way.
I feel like people only think that racism comes only in overt forms of slurs, threats, and other such derogatory markers. But racism has other much more covert forms that it takes, like racial bias. To Deesha's point: racial biases in dating IS racist, because your PERSONAL preferences for a partner should not be extrapolated onto an entire race. These biases are instilled in us by the society we live in, and are usually unconscious, which I think makes some people uncomfortable because they don't personally feel like they're making racist decisions. These biases need to be examined and unlearned to overcome, which is difficult especially when living in a majority Chinese society like Singapore.
A lot of Chinese people getting offended here, which shows why this conversation is important. They feel like they are listening to a 'ranting session' by the minorities, but isn't that the point? I am Chinese and I have never faced racism and discrimination in Singapore (outside of Singapore, yes), so every opportunity I get to listen to how minorities feel in Singapore, I welcome it with the readiness to get educated about things that might be my blindspot. For the topic on whether having a racial preference when dating is racist or not, speaking from my own POV, I have had crushes on Malay girls, dated Indian girls and about to marry a Chinese girl. If I had reject my feelings for the Malay and Indian girls just because they don’t look like me, to me, that would have been racist. If a relationship with a non-Chinese cannot progress beyond cultural and religion differences, that would be unfortunate, not racist.
As Chinese i actually agree with what some people say like what Kiran have to say, she make pretty accurate statements. But definitely not deesha she really have something against chinese and like to use the victim card. Especially when she talk about men marrying chinese girls to boost social status, wow im speechless. I can take everyone's opinion in the video but not hers
WeiWen WWE I understand it can be uncomfortable to hear the truth, but Dessha has put up a big mirror for people to examine their unconscious bias. If they don’t like what is staring back at them, then perhaps it is time to examine their privileges and biases.
@@shawnlim8001 you may think what she is saying is the truth but sadly (or not), I don't. Like what Kiran said and some things that others said actually said, but its just so easy for people like Deesha to make sweeping statements like how indian guys use chinese girls to boost their social status. Or like how she dont want to be associated by her race and not being called "indian girl" (I personally dont think calling someone indian or any other race is a degrading term but maybe she thinks that way so she don't want to be called indian girl).
@@shawnlim8001 if she herself think so lowly of her own race and imply that Chinese is a more superior race over hers, how is she able to then "make her race better" (I think all races are good to start with so yeah)
@@weiwenwwe2066 I see your point and can respect it, but all I am saying people often discount accounts of lived experience, like racism. We need to listen more and discount them, less.
12:16 "when i smile i would make my eyes as small as (possible )" "to make me as chinese as possible" Woah pot calling the cattle black right here. Says that making stereotypical remarks is racist but goes on to say that SMH
She goes on to say that she realises she was in the wrong and that should not be the way things are. But it highlights the fact that there are many young minority who somehoe feel the need to deny their race to fit in.
Koh jun kai well she said she’s wrong for trying to be more chinese and denying her Malay roots. But she didn’t say she’s wrong for making that reference to the stereotypical joke of Chinese have small eyes.
Faraway Mountains ? Looked at the way she laughed right after that. Stop trying to defend this bunch of people who have added nothing to the conversation but insinuate that all Chinese are racist.
0:29 can I just say all Indians r so pretty like no cap their features r so pretty and their skin tone is also very very pretty I don’t understand why people say “for an Indian” cmon man Edit : Sadge that she just called the German chinese dude racist when his argument was quite logical. There isn’t really room for discussion her. Just a NO. from her.
Racism goes both ways whether you are minority or majority. Somehow, I feel they are pettifogging many issues. Having a dating preference is racist? I think you will have to distinctly separate out HATE and PREFERENCE. If I like to eat western more than chinese food, it doesnt mean I hate chinese food. It just means I am indifferent to chinese food. There is no element of hate here. This is a personalised and individual choice. Dont we have the liberty to choose what we prefer? Where is the freedom? By the way, when I say this, I hold the same view that everyone can have their racial preferences when dating. No double standard here.
not true dating preferences do have underlying prejudices and stereotypes. Asian american men are the least desired in the US and many asian men there complain girls are racist as many girls don’t want to date them. as they precive asian guys as not manly ( which is stereotyping ) and race is something which one is just born with and can’t change unlike weight hence many would feel it’s unfair for being discriminated just because of their colour of their skin which they didn’t even choose
Not only racist, really dumb as well. She basically admitted to having an inferiority complex towards chinese people and says that making her eyes smaller (wtf lol) would make her fit in better with chinese people
It's important to differentiate between a preference vs a fetish. Having a preference isn't racist. Take my white husband. He has dated Asian girls and found their features to be attractive to him. But he has dated white girls too because they had a connection and have a great personality. He doesn't exclusively dated only Asian girls; that would fall under the fetishism. Fetishism is only going after a certain race and wanting the perceived notion of that race. E.g wanting to date only Chinese girls because they are submissive. Wanting to date an Indian girl as they make a great homemaker. All they want is that stereotype, ignoring the fact that the person has feelings, political leanings and personality. Now that is definitely not okay and borderline racist too. It takes a while to differentiate between the attraction being a genuine one vs a fetish one. It's not something that can simply be determined from a sentence.
I disagree with Deesha on "indian men who use chinese women to increase their privilege". I'm in my mid 20's and i have only been with chinese girls. Major reason is I've had very few tamil friends(female) as being in a class/cohort where most of the people are chinese. I'm an introvert and hence all of my partners were friends beforehand. I don't think i received any privilege what so ever. I've had trouble renting, getting a job, not being considered a singaporean and i'm here to steal the girls with my high paying job through CECA. Having said that, I do understand her perspective or what she has gone through. I faced alot of racism, mostly from Malay dudes though, and empathise with her. But i certainly don't want to be seen as someone who wants to increase my privilege because statements like this tend to become generalized. P.S. I would totally date Deesha provided that we are compatible.
KING Silva It is quite contradicting cos that statement of hers implied that indian men are with Chinese women for the privilege, not becos of genuine chemistry. And then goes ahead to say it’s wrong to have racial preferences when dating. She don’t even know how racist and ironic she sounds.
I disagree with deesha as well. basically those indian man she is referring to just basically have a preference for chinese girls. nothing to do with increasing their privileges.
not really in cosmopolitan sg religion and culture not that important at all many don’t like someone of darker skin tone people think dark = ugly & fair = beautiful/ handsome
I am part of the minority race ( non-CMI race ) and I take Chinese as my Mother Tongue. Whenever I received good results for chinese exams or any piece of homework that I submitted seemed too good for my standard ( since apparently I'm a non-chinese😔), my MT teacher would accuse me of using Google translator or whatever methods deemed possible but in reality, I just made use of the phrases and vocabulary that I had learnt in the past T-T. Nearly all of my MT teachers would pay close attention to me because they think that I don't understand anything that was being taught in class. I understand their rationale but I have been learning chinese for over a decade now ( please treat me normally like my other classmates) and I'm not that bad okay😭,I get at least a B for my chinese in secondary school. Adding on to that, my classmates will never speak to me in chinese and purposely speak chinese in front of me,to their friends;-; I don't find this racist but I find it insulting because there is a racial barrier separating my actual ability VS what is the expected outcome for me and most people tend to look at the latter.
As a brown minority race female who migrated from Singapore to Canada 6 years ago, I feel much more included and represented in the community in my new country. Canada is truly diverse and inclusive, much more than Singapore which only talks more about inclusion than actually practising it. The prejudice and racism I felt in 25 years of living in SG actually made me move out. And I'm much happier now.
@@Bryaneng27 dealing with people like deesha, even if you speak to someone else in Chinese and it doesn't concern her, she also not happy. Speaking of race card, she plays the race card way too many times
@@Bryaneng27 I'm a chinese standing together with the minorities against the fight against racism and I do not discredit their living experiences. However, some minorities are just so sensitive to the point whereby everything is being seen as racism. I have friends from the minority group who feel that some issues shouldn't be even considered as a racist act, yet there are people like Deesha who screams racism at every single thing. Even someone's preference is seen as being racist wtheck. This opens up a conversation but it also certainly dilute the word racism. And I'm all with the movement but hey, dont come tell me it's ok for the minorities to be racist and that's ok because they have no power.
Why is it racist if you do not want to date someone because of their race? I do not know why. FOR ME personally, I would not feel that a person is racist just because they do not want to date someone that is not of their race. I feel like what they said is a little bit bs. Some of my Malay friends like girls who are Chinese and it is their preferred race to date. Everyone has their own choice to make, if you want to date Chinese girls of course you would date Chinese girls. You would not go and date Malay, Indian or American girls if you do not like them. I really do not understand why having a racial preference for dating is racist. Some Malay girls in my school prefer to date Thai guys or White guys. You would not want to date someone that you do not like and who does not have good chemistry with you. It is just like how you would date a prettier woman rather than an ugly woman and how you would date a fitter woman rather than a fatter woman. People have different preferences. Just like how girls like dating taller guys. From the context of this video, it also means that if a girl has a preference for dating guys just because they are taller, it means that the girl is unreasonable, bad and selfish. Also at 7:00 when the girl said that "they do not want us also." It is they do not want US or is it they do not want YOU???????? I do not know how THAT IS EVEN RACIST. It is literally just a RACIAL preference, not being racist to the person. Even though you have a racial preference for dating Chinese girls it does not mean that you won't date anybody who is not Chinese. This episode was a failure in my opinion. Literally SHAKE MY HEAD. 🤦♂Please let me know if I am stupid or racist. Thanks. Cannot continue watching this episode.
Fr, imo it’s 100% valid to dismiss someone (in terms of dating) for ANY reason, dumb or not. My body my choice, I don’t have to explain my reasons to anybody. Bro I don’t even have to talk to someone for me to be like nah I don’t like their vibe, yk what I mean? Dating is a personal choice, and attraction is a natural human thing. if a guy says they don’t like me for my race, I’m not entitled to them. I don’t have the right to call them out on it.
5:16 ok but what if his preference is making tang yuan and praying to guan yin mah? Idk mans I nvr heard of another race would do that. I think it’s so sad that she brought him down like that because I think his reasoning is 100% valid. People would only date a certain race due to many reasons, but would still be friends with all races. It has less to do with being racist and more to do with preferences. Perhaps what he means is that if he meets a girl of another race who is like ethnically chinese(or brought up Chinese), he would date them. And that’s not very common. As someone who used to only date chinese boys but started dating malay boys afterwards, the main difference I had between then and now is I was just not attracted to non-Chinese people. Where now I am attracted to them and thus would date them. It’s like being a straight girl, you wouldn’t be attracted to other girls. But does that make you sexist against females? No!
It is quite clear that this conversation is lacking - and in some ways, potentially quite divisive. I find it more prudent to remove the video, but that’s a decision Zula will have to take. Regardless, I hope the folks at Zula take in the comments in a constructive manner, and not negatively. Racism (wow heavy word, tbh) or rather racial relations is a difficult topic. Really difficult. Which is why I hope that any platforms / content producers that touch on this topic really put a lot of effort into making sure it’s a constructive conversation. A well moderated conversation. Where assumptions and broad blanket statements by the participants, regardless minority or majority, are not left unchallenged. Where there aren’t one or two louder voices that will drown out everyone else’s. Where we post more specific questions - rather than just broad questions where the parameters aren’t even clear. That’s dangerous. It’s not good enough to just invite participants of different races, give them a platform, and let them voice whatever. It’s easier from a production perspective, definitely. But let’s be more thoughtful about this.
These people are obsessed with power, and this is the way they intend to gain it. By playing victim. If you doubt they are obsessed with power, read about critical race theory. Their entire religion (I won't call it "study") is about power relationships and hierarchy, mixed in with racial supremacist assumptions. Lucky for us, Americans have a 5 year head start on this, so it will destroy them before it destroys us. We will be able to see it coming and react appropriately
you just want a video that is pro-chinese and don’t want to accept the fact that racism exist in singapore . maybe in your next life you can be a minority in whatever country then only you will truly understand the pain
@@MaxJoseph999 personally i felt the video was fair and not biased as there were guys who said “not racist “ to the questions too but i have noticed that every time when minority says they are hurt and feel it’s unfair the majority 70% chinese always cry and complain “ minority are too overly sensitive “ yet when one person even calls them a racist chinese start crying “ this person so mean call me a racist “ if your stamenet is hurting someone then why can’t they just accept they are racist so that they can improve. if one does not accept what they said or did was racist then how to improve ?? don’t even want to take the first step 😐 then how ? every time there is a video on racism in singapore comments always claim the “minority are too sensitive and blame the minority “ just like this comments section these people in the comments section will only be happy if there was a video that says “ there is NO racism in sg” every time when someone says there is racism in sg 70% chinese in sg always get angry 😑 like u if you don’t even accept racism exist in sg then how can improve ?????
@@MaxJoseph999 but i mean it, you will only truly understand the struggles and pain if you yourself are a minority, being a minority in whatever country means living life on difficult mode, you won’t get it till u yourself live thorough it being a minority one has no choice but to be emotionally stronger if you are weak you can drown. we don’t have the privilege to cry easily as life is way harder for us and we have to live through it, face all the prejudices, stereotypes, racism , discrimination and yet still be labeled as “sensitive “ if we complain about them. you don’t understand how it feels to walk into a room and knowing you will never fit in cuz of the colour of your skin 😔which i don’t even choose. being punished for the colour of your skin which you didn’t even choose 🥺life is harder if you are brown anywhere on earth unfortunately 😢 you will never understand the pain why the whole world hates brown even i don’t know what did i ever do to be hated upon i didn’t even choose the colour of my skin. you have no choice but to be emotionally stronger to live the difficult life god has thrown to u as a minority. you will never understand if you don’t live through it
Dear Zula, Thank you for talking about it. This is how change comes, when we talk about it. In a time where people are choosing division over unity, this is very refreshing. Love, Fellow Human :)
Yall are hypocrites, please rewatch the entire episode and see how entitled some of yall feel, what are you guys even on about privilege? what privilege?? dont play yourself, where do you find your material?
Hi girl at 5:01, that assumption is not racist, but it is biase. As long as you don't put your assumptions into practice and it hurts someone(and their entire race) then it's not racist. You are entitled to your assumptions as much as I am, and as long as our behavior does not reflect our assumptions, then it's not racist. Assumptions can be for the sake of being sensitive. If we deem assumptions as racism then what that Chinese Australian chef accused the Malaysian radio DJ hosts of being racists would've been valid.
On top of judging one line/comment made by one person, I hope people are also looking at the conversation topic as a whole and understanding the bigger message. In the end, no one can force their views on you and you are free to think what you want and have your own opinions, but we should realise that experiences of minorities *are* different from that of the majority. And that difference in experience stems from the fact that they are the minority. That in itself is a problem we should confront and try to solve as much as possible. It would be a shame to just focus on just one small segment of this 20 min episode -- we'd completely miss the point of it. Thank you to the Zula team and the participants for having this conversation and trying to navigate a very complicated topic! There was no way you'd be able to do it perfectly, so I hope you don't feel disheartened by the negative responses. Keep on keeping on :))
It is okay to make decisions based on stereotypes when it is too difficult/exhausting to better understand a person individually. It is wrong when reasonable effort can help you better understand a person for who he/she is. This is why it I agree that we shouldn’t look at race in recruitment because the effort it takes to better understand a person beyond race is reasonable. And that is why it is okay for car insurance to be priced based on age and gender stereotypes because it is too difficult to understand a person’s tendency for accidents individually. When it comes to dating, (besides having a natural attraction to a certain racial look), narrowing your search parameters to a certain race is often not racist because it is often too difficult/exhausting to consider all candidates out there. We simply don’t have the emotional capacity to get to know so many people individually. Hence it is simply for practical reasons of preserving my emotional capacity to use parameters of race, nationality and education etc when it comes to dating. So yes it might be disadvantageous for certain races when it comes to dating, but I wouldn’t call it racist. What do y’all think of my argument?😅
A simple truth is that "God has created mankind from the same progeny in order that they may associate in good fellowship, exercise love toward each other and live together in unity and brotherhood." ~ Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Baha'i Faith
Disappointing comments. I'll keep it short. Rule number 1 of problem solving is to identify it is a problem in the first place. Shut up and listen. Sit down and ask questions and have a conversation. Not saying everything they said is right, but to dismiss their opinions and/or find flaws in their presentation just to get back at them is not solving anything.
Dating different race is not just about dating a different race. It's also about integrating both religions together. I came from a mixed race/religion relationship of many years.
They said they're against racism, but then they're still racist towards Chinese throughout the whole video assuming Chinese are "better" and "superior" The thing is, there's only a thin line between assumptions and racism. And a lot of things they discussed in the video was just assumptions, racism is when you actually discriminate someone and treat them unfair. But i assume white people are more open, i assume asian parents are more strict, I assume Chinese is more calculative when it comes to money, i assume malays are more carefree and easygoing. So does that make me racist? No. It's assumptions, it's like my own impression towards them. Just like how the world thinks Asians are good at maths, how's that racism? It's impression Also the preference thing in certain races tutor or dating partners, it's preference, chill, not racism. 80% of the statements in this video i just don't agree with
At around 5:15, she says we shouldnt assume such and such. I think those are reasonable assumptions to make though, in terms of the culture one is likely to have, etc, until the contrary is proven. So GENERALLY, it is not racist to have a preference to date someone of a certain race including your own
I bet none of them have lived overseas. You want to expand your knowledge and experience of racism? Get out of Singapore and you'll learn fast. I'm not discounting what was discussed however it would be more beneficial to the discussion if there were speakers who have lived and grew up overseas like I have. The content will be more substantial and in depth.
i lived in the US before and an as a singaporean indian i faced more racist comments in sg compared to when I lived in the US and i feel like US is more of my home and feel more accepted then i ever have in singapore.
I am Indian and I completely disagree with some of the statements made by the "minority" grp. An Indian can definitely be racist to a Chinese if they wanted to and I have seen it, I don't understand why these people say that the Chinese people will not go through racism when racism can happen to ANYONE and EVERYONE, it's that simple. it's insane. like when the Malay girl already had the preconceived notion that for her to fit into the Chinese grp she had to make her eyes look small. You can be offended by the fact that people say that Indian smell like curry but not the fact the Chinese people have small eyes? what? And also for the Indian lady to say that Chinese people are trying to become white, therefore trying to achieve the "next level" so she being an Indian already has a subservient attitude that she comes before the Chinese and the Chinese come before the ang mos. Then also the dating preferences had nothing to do with racism like omg as a human being I have personal preferences and its none of your business to tell me who I should date every single human have a preference whether you like it or not so stop bring racism into to it. It goes both way guys stop trying to bring this westernised politics bullshit into Singapore pls it won't' work. It very obvious that these people watched a lot of American politics hence all these notions.
Omg ikr the dating topic made me annoyed. There are so many factors linked to dating and marriage and they just zoomed in on race??? Like? It is not black and white. People have preferences and yes, it might be for superficial, lazy, comfort, etc reasons but so??? Why is it RACIST?! I just do not understand.
@Karim Khan i don't care if people around me like me or not whatever their race they are. Racism is racism it can happen to anyone. I love my dusky skin tone and I will never change it for anyone. I don't need a Chinese person to validate for me nor do I go to them for validation. You should love yourself first before anyone else can and it seems that you have taken my comment under the wrong light.
All these people typing big essays in the comments why are you so offended by the video...everyone's experience with racism is different but down right denying casual racism doesn't exist in SG is plain ignorance
I've seen too many "Deesha"s around and honestly they do nothing but play the victim card. We need more people like Kiran. Honestly i think she make the most sense in this video. If Deesha sees this maybe you will play the victim card again and call me out for bullying?
@Karim Khan your people? Oh you mean human beings? Are you not human so that you can say something like this? Got it, understood. You don't belong to the human race, I get it.
@Karim Khan sure haha, you can say whatever you want on the internet. If you lack attention in real life and want to seek attention here, sadly i cant give it to you please go somewhere else instead. I hope you find it soon, all the best
While it is true that there is racism everywhere within the world. It's not like in Singapore, Chinese aren't subjected to racism either. I've heard before Malays or Indians saying to their friends, "eh, you need money ah? Just ask the Chinese kid la." or "Aiya, during the test just copy xxx (Chinese name) paper confirm can pass." While these are stereotypes but stereotyping is the first step into casual racism. The current issue is pretty much similar to what is happening within the United States of America. People are disregarding the White's safety simply because they deem them as people who are racists or supporting white supremacy. People completely forget that when you ostracize any race you become a racist as well. It's not so much about pointing out who are the ones who are racist but rather finding out how do we integrate together as a community. Remove the negative connotation towards each race (by your teaching) because no Kids will ever point to any race and say certain things. Because it all comes from the parent's teaching or the friends the kid is hanging out with.
lmao majority of any country on earth will always be more racist compared to the minorities this is just FACTS! nothing to do with being chinese or not but being part of majority/minority. It is facts that MAJORITY of racist people in sg are chinese cuz they are the majority hence it is natural. but I am against all forms of racism against anyone. But you cant deny minorities face far more racism compared to majority. Just ask any minority person almost all have a personal story of racism but less chinese would face racial discrimination as they are the majority. You cant even handle one person being racist to u imagine being A MINORITY and facing stereotypes, discrimination, racism and prejudices on a much more occasional basis. and you cant even complain about it as people will claim they are just "sensitive" smh! and if someone's words or actions are racist obviously u will inform them so that they can learn and grow from it. if not even allowed to mention that some actions or words are racist then how to improve ?
I feel that racism is inherently present within everyone. I do not think that blatantly expressing that you are a minority and you are subjugated by Chinese dominance makes you less of a racist than the people who treat u this way. It is about acceptance that different races and fundamentally different people think and function differently, rather than looking for a platform to justify how people treat u this way. The same two majority races people can have different ways they react about other races, and the same two minorities can react differently with the way they have been treated. People who say they are not racist and are victims of racial profiling to me are hypocrites, because they are so focused on racial discrimination they become racist against themselves and towards other races. They are not able to view the world without their "racial lens". I have met Indians and malays who joke about Chinese stereotypes and I have seen Chinese people who joke about malay and Indian stereotypes, and they are some of the nicest people I have ever met. We are all people living in this country, hustling to improve our lives and to make ends meet. I only heard you guys speak for 20 plus mins and I'm so put off by what u guys have said. However I admit that this is my biased opinion towards u and there is a certain level of tolerance that you deserve. The same as all the people that has "mistreated" you, you have to been more tolerant and respect that political correctness is not the only way to live our lives.
people who say “ everyone are racist “ are the racist themselves. i am against racist jokes in general based on stereotypes against anyone. if someone made racist jokes about me i would stop being friends with them
@@spots- As I mentioned, racism is inherently present within everyone, which includes myself. I am sure you are the perfect non-racist human being in your ideal landscape, with your supreme morality where everything pretty much exists in a binary, and you are the epitome of justice. I am sure that no one will be talking to you about racist jokes, because there should be plenty of materials for other things to be said based on your perfect character. Oh, and I remembered to hang my badge this time, so please take note thanks!
@@kittythecat7820 so you are admitting you are a racist 🤭 i disagree that “ everyone is inherently racist “ i work in a hospital and communicate with many elderly population and i 100% believe not everyone is racist, majority of them are nice and kind chinese elderly patients, the ones who are racist are truly in the minority i have met many people from all walks of life and i truly believe “ not everyone is racist “ you say everyone is racist ? clearly shows more about yourself, go out and talk and get to know people for who they are and stop judging them for the colour of their skin nobody in the world chose the colour of their skin hence don’t deserve to be punished for it
@@spots- I feel that inside your ivory tower, you are still not getting the point that I am trying to convey. The petty victories that you think you have achieved, where you fail to acknowledge your mistakes and ignorance as I mentioned are meaningless in the real world. Working in a hospital and communicating with 'many' elderly folks does not give you the entitlement to proclaim that who ticks your checklist in your 'racist' notebook. I am sure that based on your character and your extreme binary definition of racism and self-righteous, we definitely do need to take note that politically correctness is still a rampant trend in our society. Burying our problems and saying self-righteous quotes do not mean shit in the real world, and unfortunately, I do not understand your 'nobody in the world chose the colour of their skin hence don’t deserve to be punished for it' comment, because only a self-righteous being like yourself is talking about people being punished for the color of their skin, which is not what the original conversation is about. Throwing in random self-righteous quotes does not add value to your argument, but instead reveals the brittleness of your rebute.
@@kittythecat7820 personally i do not feel "everyone is inherently racist" maybe agree to disagree if you think otherwise. I have had patients who refused to get treated by me or family members say racist nasty stuff about me but MOST of the patients are NOT like that and i personally disagree that everyone is racist, as most people do not mean any harm or malicious intent to other races. honestly it just shows that u r a racist. Maybe agree to disagree ?
Sorry but I just can't take the Deesha girl seriously, we need xiaxue to comment on her. She reminds me of the Indian girl from Millennials of Singapore.
1) At timestamp 2:51, if anyone is a minority in a group setting, it is always their responsibility to spend more effort to integrate with the majority. For example, if I start a new job in a new company, It would likely to be expected of me to integrate with my new company's or department's culture; the entire company is not going to change for me unless I am their new boss. That is a given. I could alternatively not integrate and be left as an outcast. 2) For the question of "Racial preferences in choosing a partner". In Singapore, religion and race are closely related. And with the major religions in Singapore, many of them have dietary restrictions, fashion limitations, and the requirement of participating in religious activities. Even if the partner is not religious, doesn't imply that the partner's family is not. Conflicts arising from religion would be the worst form of conflict because it cannot be resolved. Adhering to an entirely new moral and value system would be daunting for any person. All these will be part of the multivariate considerations of choosing a partner for marriage. Race is likely a heuristic in guessing a another person's religion in Singapore. 3) In Singapore the concept of an individual's score in the national examinations, the schools that the individual attends are widely used heuristics in determining the work ethic and the competency of the individual. Children in Singapore are conditioned to employ these heuristics throughout their education in their formative years. By the time a child in Singapore completes PSLE, this heuristic would be firmly ingrained into their minds. Another point to note is that a vast majority of the top schools by PSLE cut off in Singapore have European names or Chinese names. The only reason why stereotypes and generalizations are formed is because they are fast and have a reasonable level of accuracy. 4) Crime rates, drug abuse and prison population of certain races are also over represented in Singapore. These information are going to play a part in employers' decision making when hiring. Of course employers are going to use the generalization described in point (3). 5) Self deprecation is a common humor technique. If an individual has some issues with the jokes, the recommendation to that individual is to not make them. Others who are more confident of themselves can self deprecate without adverse effect on their psyche. Self deprecating jokes are an entirely personal issue, unless jokes on races are taboo. Comedians do that for a living. People do laugh at these jokes because they have anecdotal experiences with the issues in the jokes. 6) If a negative stereotype of a certain race is generally true, then the community leaders should be trying to address these issues instead of labeling the discussion of these negative stereotypes to be racism. 7) Did the issues in the video create such a huge disadvantage to the minorities in Singapore that it prevents them from succeeding in life in Singapore? Is this video trying to externalize individual responsibility to the community? Is the video encouraging minorities to attribute setbacks in life to racism instead of individual responsibility?
being a minority in any country means you will generally face more discrimination compared to the majority of the country, minorities are much more easily vulnerable to getting bullied ( cuz they are darker ) face housing and employment issues ( with mandarin only jobs ) hence minorities can be disadvantaged in being successful in life. if one has been bullied since young cuz they are darker it affect thier self-esteem, self-confidence which can continue in till adulthood. and minorities face housing issues as well. don’t be blur to the disadvantage minorities face. but i don’t think it has anything to do with chinese being a majority in any country means you are privileged compared to a minority. if you are part of a minority in any country in this world your life will be harder it is facts.
5:30 This argument has a fallacy. If my choices are not really my choices and my free will is not my free will, because my free will and choices are defined by my biases and culture ; then no one in the world has any choice nor free will. The same also can be said about the girl and everyone on the panel. Then who can then tell me what truly are my choices? Or them theirs? It becomes a philosophical circular argument that ultimately leads to nowhere.
What she is suggesting is that no one can truly make their own choices unless they have perfect knowledge of every argument, worldview and philosophy. This is not only impractical but also impossible. Choices in itself is shaped by bias and culture. To say that one has to attain perfect knowledge before making a choice is akin to saying one never has a choice.
This was a very good discussion but I felt that this talk was pointless as most people here already have a set mindset, including the minorities who are subconsciously racist as well. I honestly think that having racial preferences for your partner is not racist. Does that mean that me, a straight woman, having preference for men is me being sexist? I am tall so I prefer dating tall men, does that mean that I have something against short men? Sure, it is racist if you are talking about friends, but as a lifelong partner, then I think no. Also at 12:16 , "when I smiled, I would make my eyes as small as possible'. Is this not racist? She is also stereotyping the Chinese here, in this case. But see, it was subconscious. So now that things like this happens, does that mean that the Chinese should accept and feel fine with that remark just cause outside of this conversation, whatever they do to us doesnt really change our lived experience? No. In other words, to summarise, does Kiran mean to say that when the minorities make such remarks or do certain acts against the majority, it is fine and never racist just because we are the majority? Then I think that this is a very wrong thing to say. Throughout this entire video, I felt that the majority here are being shot down whenever they voice out their opinion. The video started off well, until Deesha had that reply for Thomas's racial preference and I feel that after that point, the majority are just giving politically right answers. Also, Deesha was kinda stereotyping with the fact that the Chinese are trying to be White. I don't think so? Maybe just that handful she met but she should not generalise. This itself is also racist. I really enjoy having open discussions but this one was rather bad. If minorities continue to have this mindset then I think it will only make us more divided. But other than these few points, I think the rest makes sense, which is what the majority should reflect on.
I'm a millenial and blackface wasnt racist to us. That's Gen Z people who get offended over it and cancelled loads of comedians for using blackface. It doesnt make sense to us tbh.
@Niko Lodeon hun, I'm guessing you werent around when these comedy shows came out. Black people were in these shows. Look up the sketches. Look up Big Narstie when he invited Matt Lucassss on for an interview because he loved the show. It was only a couple years ago people started saying it was an issue. Doesnt that tell you something? All that time noone made a fuss. And comparing asian attacks after covid to a comedy show which ripped characters from every race is not racism. One is violence specifically targeted towards a race whereas the other is comedy that wasnt about ripping an actual race but about playing characters. Can I make a suggestion. Go out on the street and take a poll. Ask people their opinions. Ask a variety of ages and races in diff cities and country areas. Ask them if they liked Little Britain and Bo Selecta, Father Ted etc and ask them how they viewed the show and if they ever found it genuinely offensive or thought the creators had racist motive.
@Niko Lodeon Interestingly they did a poll recently and found that early Gen Z were good in regards to issues on homophobia and racism etc but that in recent years they actually come out as more racist and homophobic than millenials. They dont realise this of course but the anti-white rhetoric and calling gay people TERFs is extremely racist an homophobic and simply regressive. We feel Gen Z has set us back about 50 years race-wise. We had made so much progress. It's really sad to see relationships break down all due to race-baiting.
@Niko Lodeon no. I'm actually talking about UK. Im from UK and the study was done in UK. And where is SG? And the only one being insecure are those offended by blackface.
@Niko Lodeon it's about a global issue that effects everyone. Woke culture is a cancer. Not to mention this is an idea that manifested online and not organically offline in those countries because noone cared until social media came along and transported another countries issue to us.
@Niko Lodeon your commenting on a video about wokeism. As for being against meritocracy that is something the woke do. They want to remove standardised testing, they are for affirmative action which discriminates asians the most and gives blacks a queue jump into university. Woke culture is trying to dismantle systems from the ground up. We're in the middle of a cultural revolution.
@Niko Lodeon Wtf are you talking about. The person is referring to dating preference. And you’re comparing it to racial assault? Seriously? Get your head out your ass.
I seriously feel that many of us have a change of attitude towards white people. 20 years ago I believe white people are the model or ideal race we aspired towards due to their high income capabilities and high living standards. These days we are on par or even better than them. We no longer have such aspirations to be like white people. The Trump presidency also eroded that thought to be like white people as we saw how flawed their lifestyle and their ideals of democracy appalled us looking at the way they treated the pandemic.
Deesha is the same as those black Americans in the US who expect us to kneel down in front of her to apologise. Like hey, what's happening here and in the USA is so different and now she wants to apply their standards here
@Karim Khan coming from you? Previously your account got banned and now you made a new one and the first person you think about is me. I feel so privileged, thanks alot. And being triggered with someone of a certain race means I hate the own race? Interesting logic right there. Interesting to see how woke mobs like you think
Great video! Thank you for using your platform to open up this kind of discussions. Indeed, it can be difficult to start them and to get people to participate without being defensive. Hope people learn from this that a discussion is to listen with intent to understand before responding, rather than listen to respond.
Thank you for participating in this discussion.
Racism has always been an inconvenient topic to address, because it depends on the unique lived experiences of individuals. Naturally, it can bring up emotions among our talents. Naturally, comments among our viewers can be divisive.
We did not create this video to divide people or define racism. We created it to turn up the volume of the minorities’ voices. If they resonate with us, then we know we are not alone. If they do not, we can see these differences as an opportunity to become inquisitive and start asking why.
We had this conversation to talk with - not at - one another. We hope it continues in the same spirit online and offline.
We appreciate the feedback on how the delivery could have been more all-rounded. We will consider extending the conversation in future with greater diversity of views in mind. If you feel strongly about this topic and are willing to share on camera, please drop us an e-mail at hello@zula.sg
Still disagree to a certain extent Zula. I believe in your intention, what you’re trying to achieve. We should absolutely turn up the volume of the minorities, and I do get where their heart is. It is, however, not a discussion if even though their heart is in a good place, we cannot correct or help make their delivery better. It is still very one sided. And a flawed delivery is accepted in this conversation because it would be “racist” to disagree, even to a small degree? If you want this conversation to talk WITH, it should be a two way conversation. This is still, at the end of the day, a one sided piece.
Still, good effort. But could be better with a moderator. Not to disagree with everyone, but to make it more fair. And it shouldn’t just be a 22 mins video. A better discussion would be making this a few episodes or longer. A moderator is needed. After each episode is edited, I do think participants need to gather together again to review the video to see if there are any points they missed out or would like to add on. This is such a sensitive topic and it shouldn’t just be done in one setting, in one episode. And it is still being divisive more than anything.
@@en4234 I fully agree! I can't help but disagree to an extent as well. I understand and appreciate the good intentions behind the video, but this does not excuse that the video was produced rather poorly.
To add on to this point, yes, their intention might not be to define racism, but by having questions on whether given scenarios are racist and having the guests, who are minorities and thus difficult to disagree with since we are easily labelled as racist or ignorant if we did, justify why these instances are racist and having the members of other races agree completely without having anyone of a different mindset refute these claims and justifications does set a standard, especially for the "younger, and very vulnerable" crowd.
Especially when their platform is as big as it is.
A conversation to talk about racism is exactly what we need. But this was not in any way a conversation at all.
@@chloewong8798 This is the danger i hope Zula fully understands. You have a platform and your target audiences are the younger vulnerable crowd. We cannot put out blanket statements and justify it one day later when most of your audiences already probably watched the video and walked away with a wrong impression in their head. Talents can be emotional, that is perfectly understandable. But they need to be objective at the end of the day. Or someone should be able to step in to correct them. Always think about the bigger picture, what you think the people will walk away with after watching your video. I am an older uncle who can pretty much form my own opinion, but I don't think our younger Singaporeans can, yet. Especially for a subject so complex and sensitive.
A suggestion, if i may, would be having someone who is objective, level-headed and not afraid to disagree, to review the end product first before releasing future videos like this.
Talk with? They were shooting down others’ experiences. The Indian girl especially. Horrible video. You guys want to chime in on such a conversation at such a time where so much is happening in the world right now, and you let this Indian girl go on and on and on and insinuate that Chinese people this Chinese people that all Chinese are racist all Chinese want to be white. Honestly just take down this video. It’s so upsetting.
Bree don’t think they will take down this video. The theatrical value is still there. Also, they received quite some affirmation and support on Facebook for it.
As someone from a minority race, I felt that John was probably one of the most sensible people in the video at analysing the issues.
I agree!
i always like when they get him in such videos. he's really sensible n can see many perspectives. he's my fav person in TSL. john john for president!!!
Not one, he was THE most sensible one there ahahah he was basically just trying to keep neutral the entire time (not a bad thing of course)
im a minority and even i myself feel like this whole conversation is an echo chamber that is treading on dangerous grounds such as minority vs majority and the whole ‘privilege’ thing. when will ppl understand that minority/majority just means numbers in a population and that they are not meant to define you. you belong to one of the four main ethnic groups in singapore period. thats what singapore has always proudly defined itself to be - a multicultural and multiracial country with four main ethnic groups, not one majority group and three minority groups. we are not like the western world. why are ppl bent on seeing minority groups as inferior or oppressed etc.? adopting this kind of westernised mindset and therefore overgeneralising an entire race to be subconsciously racist or rather judging an entire race simply based on their numbers in a population is in itself problematic and is racially divisive. this is a slippery slope that will only divide people and not unite. and its pretty evident what a mess this sort of thinking brings in other countries.
i personally believe that racism is marked by how one behaves towards others, their words and their actions and not simply cos they belong to the majority race. its as tho saying that if a malay person cross the causeway into malaysia with a chinese friend where malays are the majority then suddenly the malay person is a subconscious racist because now he/she is the majority and vice versa for chinese friend..it doesnt work this way. ppl need to understand the sad hard truth which is racists exist in all races and it does not only apply to only the race with the most ppl in the country. also the reason why ppl might encounter more racists from the majority race is simply because there is more of them. its just like celebrities and fandoms. every fandom has assholes but one is likely to encounter more assholes from a fandom of millions of ppl compared to a fandom of thousands of ppl.
and that said, i believe that for every one racist encountered there are prob hundreds/thousands more who will stand alongside with you to hold these ppl accountable and thats what we shld be doing. we shld be holding ppl accountable for racist behaviours and in other areas correcting and getting rid of casual racism and ignorance across all races like backhanded compliments, racial jokes, racial stereotypes or stuff like defining a person’s job capability by race that has nth to do with language etc which i wholeheartedly agree, and not turning ard instead and paint all chinese ppl with the same brush. holding a racist person accountable, holding racist actions and words accountable is how we show zero tolerance towards racism and create an environment that minimises racism in the society, and not holding an entire race accountable for the actions of a few and calling them privileged simply by their race. thats not going to solve anything. rather it just pushes ppl away and divide us.
and to add on to some specific things said, assuming someone ‘lived experience’ simply by their race is just wrong. how sure does one know that a person lived experience is similar/different from you just by their race? and how is it right that not only does one make assumption of a person’s lived experience based on their race but then add on to say if you look like the majority of ppl therefore you are like them and thus racism doesnt apply to you? isnt that being double standards depending on a person’s race? not to mention some are so quick to call out having a racial preference for dating/marriage (which is often tied to common experiences/similarities in religion, cultural/traditional practices, family background etc) as being racist when in fact most ppl in all races have the natural tendency to prefer ppl of similar racial, cultural and religion background, but then sweeping blanket statements like ‘chinese wants to be white’ or ‘chinese tick all the boxes’/‘minorities dont tick all the boxes’ or ‘indian men want to date chinese women to increase privilege’ or ‘make my eyes look small to look chinese (which is essentially stereotyping chinese to have small eyes) can be made purely based on race and laughed about. i mean really?
anyway i hope we never have to call ppl in singapore by their skin colour. pls just no..singapore is diverse and we have a whole range of skin tones across all races. anyway the girl who said she identifies herself as a brown person dont even look brown to me lol..i have even seen chinese ppl way more brown than that.
Very well put together. Thank you!
This comment needs more votes 👋👋👋👋
Extremely well said
As a minority myself, you took the words right out of my mouth. I wish I could like your comment a thousand times but i cant lol
I agree with some of ur points, but saying that the westernized mindset is "ppl bent on seeing minority groups as inferior or oppressed" is kinda racist
I am very sorry if this comes across as ignorant or racist in any way, and would love to be enlightened if so.
I honestly respect TSL, and appreciate that they use their platform for things as important as this, and completely agree with the fact that we definitely need more conversations regarding this topic. However, as conversations are required, and empathy needs to be brought to such conversations, I feel like openness towards the opinions of others should be part of that conversation as well. In all honesty, it felt to me like the people who are from the "majority" race in this video were being shot down very quickly when they expressed their opinions, and given little chances to explain their own reasonings and rationales (though this might be an editing thing, which, in this case, should not have been edited this way). One such example of this is when Thomas was shot down for his opinions on dating preferences, and to me it was quite evident that he was much more careful with his words after.
I completely agree that there are many instances in Singapore where the minorities are treated unfairly, such as in employment and housing. This is where the Chinese definitely do have a privilege. However, by saying that Chinese have "power" when it comes to issues of stereotypes and social interactions and are thus not being treated in a discriminatory or racist manner sounds completely irrational to me. I have read other comments regarding the "power" imbalance, and am curious as to why being in the majority means that I have to be okay with the discrimination faced from other races? While it might be true that I can easily remove myself from situations where I, a Chinese person, am the majority, is the solution to this problem to remove myself completely from the situation? If i felt uncomfortable when my Malay friends are speaking in another language in front of me, why is the reason that this is not considered racist because I can easily find other friends who are Chinese? So are we encouraged to just befriend people of the majority race instead, since that is easier anyway? How does this encourage any conversation and racial harmony? And while being Chinese means that I am part of a majority who might not think that I am "ugly" or "have small eyes" for being Chinese, does this not mean that these comments from other races are not hurtful and uncalled for? Why does this mean that they are not being racist? As an analogy for this justification, why should an influencer or celebrity ever feel affected by hate comments in any way? Are their haters not usually a minority who are usually anonymous and definitely powerless, and do they not usually receive a lot more love from their fans? What rights do they have to be upset then?
And while many people are asking us to acknowledge our "privilege" and "power", I find this notion somewhat ironic because by acknowledging my privilege and power, am I not also acknowledging that the minorities are inferior to me? Am i not, by saying that I am a Chinese with privilege, you, as someone from an inferior race, mean less and are less because you are not Chinese? Is the act of treating the minorities as inferior not racist? Where do we draw the line when it comes to racism?
And while I appreciate this video being made to address important issues such as this, I do agree with the others that this may not have been the best one.. With regards to opinions given (where if the intention of this video was to shed light on the experiences of the minorities, then fine, title it to be that, instead of a "discussion on racism") and the very strong and extreme mindsets of some of the guests. By saying that discrimination towards the majority should not be considered racist because they have "power", labelling all majorities as racists, are we not instilling a very negative mindset into the audience of Zula, who might very well be the "very vulnerable" group that the people in the video speak of? Does this not further enforce the idea of being inferior and treated as less into the "very vulnerable" minorities watching this video, and also label majorities as "powerful" and "privileged" individuals who are racist and unable to accept their privilege if they have opinions that differ from those in this video? Without having differing opinions in this video and publishing one that is so completely one-sided and extremist on a platform as big as this, are we not effectively shutting down the conversations that could have been had, if people are less willing to be open and receptive towards others' opinions, and are less willing to share theirs out of fear of being labelled as an ignorant and privileged racist? It felt to me as if anything the majority has to say regarding this conversation is very quickly being shot down and labelled as ignorant and racist, while the minorities could say anything they wished, whether it be racist or not (such as squinting your eyes to look more Chinese, or Indian men wanting to date Chinese to increase their privilege) and get away with it, because they are part of a minority, and because they do not have any "power" in a social situation. How does this welcome any conversation at all? Why would a Chinese person want to partake in a conversation where anything they said was wrong, and would not be considered valid at all?
This video has too strongly advocated that all Chinese are ignorant, privileged individuals while every minority in this country are weak and powerless, but with a free pass to be racist purely because they are a minority. It is honestly ironic to me that this video is meant to spark conversations when it has very clearly placed labels on people based on the very premise of their race. How do I stand up for the minority, and when? When is it okay, when is it needed, when is it racist? Where will the line ever be drawn, and where will the bar for racism stop?
I apologise again if any of my questions or comments have come across in the wrong way, or if I am being ignorant towards the privilege I have to form these opinions in the first place.
Agreed 100 percent.
I totally see your point! I’m on at 2 minutes 53 seconds of the video.and I felt this video has already shoot down Chinese itself. I’m questioning why “being Chinese” “ is a privilege” when no one has said anything about privilege yet (in this video)? Being a Singapore citizens is a privilege! and since when Chinese wants to act like westerners? The start of this video is already making me confuse about what they message they are trying to convey. i can’t even continue the video now. Need a break.
Very well said!
Hi, Chloe! It's clear that you find this topic important, because you've put quite some thought into this. I think it's a good thing that you brought up empathy at the start of your comment, because when it comes to difficult conversations, empathy is always required to keep an open mind and truly listen to what others have to say.
I hear you, and see that the video has stirred up quite a bit emotion - hence, all the questions you have! it's never easy to hear things that make you question what you've always taken as fact. It's a good thing to have questions, that's how we start really understanding things. But sometimes, these questions get in the way of hearing what people have to say, when you are too busy trying to catch any gaps or flaws.
It might be good to rewatch the video, while keeping your questions at bay - I think they've answered some of the questions you have actually! Like this one below:
"However, by saying that Chinese have "power" when it comes to issues of stereotypes and social interactions and are thus not being treated in a discriminatory or racist manner sounds completely irrational to me. I have read other comments regarding the "power" imbalance, and am curious as to why being in the majority means that I have to be okay with the discrimination faced from other races?" -> At about the 15-min mark, Kiran explained that it is discriminatory, but it's not racist as it doesn't change the way you live your life as the majority race outside of that friend group. I don't think they're trying to tell you that you HAVE to be okay with the discrimination, but they're trying to explain that the discrimination doesn't affect your life adversely outside of that incident.
And this is my personal take on a point you had:
"And while many people are asking us to acknowledge our "privilege" and "power", I find this notion somewhat ironic because by acknowledging my privilege and power, am I not also acknowledging that the minorities are inferior to me? Am i not, by saying that I am a Chinese with privilege, you, as someone from an inferior race, mean less and are less because you are not Chinese? Is the act of treating the minorities as inferior not racist? Where do we draw the line when it comes to racism?" -> Acknowledging our privilege and power is to acknowledge that we have advantages the minority races might not. Yes, you are definitely right to say that treating the minorities as inferior is racist! So what we have to do here is to ask ourselves why are there situations where the minorities are treated as less preferable (and hence, implicitly inferior)? For example, the tuition situation mentioned by Deesha.
I hope I'm not coming across rude or "too woke", because I genuinely think there could be value to your questioning - and hopefully, learning as your questions are answered through this video or other platforms/material. Because you are right that more conversations are needed around this topic!
But I'm hopeful, like Deesha is at the end of the video. She's right: look what Singapore has achieved in 50 years! "If it's any society that can change, it's Singapore." And I really do hope that we can create a more empathetic, fairer society in our generation.
@@yvettekan3564 Hi Yvette, thank you for the response :).
Yes, I have rewatched the video multiple times before coming up with my questions, and it is because the things in the video did not answer the questions did I put them out - thus I genuinely appreciate your time in responding. With regards to the point made by Kiran, I fully understand if racism were to be labelled or defined as something that affects a person's life adversely outside of the particular situation. If we were to label racism in this way, what confuses me is the labelling of a Chinese speaking in Mandarin in front of people of the minority group as racist - and not labelling it as racist if it was a reversed situation. I understand that it is very much more likely for this to happen to the minorities due to the numbers in our population. However, this does not mean that it does not happen to the Chinese, and this does not mean that it could not end up being hurtful to the Chinese as well. How does Chinese people speaking Mandarin affect the minorities adversely outside of that particular incident in a way that does not affect someone of a majority group? How does a Chinese person asking why they don't smell a certain way affect them in a way that does not affect a Chinese person being mocked for their "small eyes"? They are both hurtful and discriminatory - but what exactly makes it racist only when a Chinese does it? If we want to label racism in such a definite way, where the discrimination has to affect a person's life outside of the incident - then we have to admit that it has been used too loosely in this video, and labelling so many things as racist instead of discriminatory could bring across a wrong message to the audience of this video.
And for the second point, yes, I completely agree with you. It is important to think about why this happens, in situations such as employment and housing. However, I do believe that by continually enforcing the idea of Chinese being privileged and the minorities being inferior, we are further causing a divide by clearly stating that the Chinese are superior and have power, whereas the minorities are powerless and weak. This could be a very negative mindset to instill in the younger generations, as growing up with that mindset might have been exactly what has caused this problem today. Additionally, by continually expanding the definition of racism to include all kinds of acts of discrimination such as speaking in Mandarin and preferring to date people of our own race, we are taking the focus away from the (probably, or what I assume to be, sorry if I am too ignorant or not "woke" enough to understand) bigger issue here that the minorities are facing: in terms of jobs and housing.
By potentially causing further divides between the races by labelling almost everything a Chinese does as racist and having such broad definitions of what racism is, we effectively cause people to avoid interaction with each other more. While the minorities might start to resent the Chinese more when they start to view many of these instances as racist, and while the Chinese start to fear any interaction at all out of fear of being labelled as racist, we are worsening the problem.
My issue with how the video was made is not with the experiences and thoughts and emotions of the guests, but how it clearly showed that the majorities were not able to make their own stands and justify them without being outrightly and blatantly called racist. It might have been on her own terms, and they might claim to not be defining racism, but it is clear that in any scenario, a minority has much more of a say as to what racism is than a Chinese (since they "can't be racist") - and any disagreement can easily be labelled as racist. In this case, how are we sparking conversations and helping to improve the situation, if we are clearly setting standards and creating more of a divide? This can be seen very clearly from all the comments on the videos, as well as many tweets I have seen going around on Twitter recently regarding racism - we are brewing more resentment and hatred in our society when we start to set such strict standards, and when we start to label everything as racist.
As another commenter has said, many people are actually willing to learn and be open to conversations regarding the topic. However, if by partaking in a conversation and expressing their views would result in them outrightly being called racist with no chance for conversation, it is clear that conversations will be avoided, and the problem could then potentially worsen.
Again, I apologise if I come across as ignorant or racist in any way. I am definitely hopeful too that Singapore can be better, but we have to be better together. And this is why I stressed that apart from empathy, openness has to be brought to conversations as well.
When the group was asked if having a preferred race to date is racist. When the guy was trying to explain why he felt it wasn't racist, the other 2 girls immediately shut him down by saying that he thinks his reasoning is acceptable because he is a racist. Then everyone change their answer to be politically correct. And every other answer to the following questions were all politically correct. Basically the whole video just felt like a rant about minority problems. Like they are trying to educate us, who are apparently all inherently bigoted Chinese people.
haha, then you got the whole point of it. learning to hear some other perspectives than your own, shutting up and accepting that it is just as valid. this is why these conversations need to happen, so that chinese people understand that their way of viewing things is not the only way, it is just one way, and there needs to be room for others too.
the real issue now is whether chinese people are actually evolved enough to understand this is happening, or just resisting because they are weak, uncomfortable or not used to being challenged. update: this is happening. just whether you like it or not.
hilmir hilmir What you're suggesting sounds alot like tyranny of the minority. Yes we should protect minority groups. However, I think you saying that all Chinese people should "shut up and accept" is oppressive. Who are you to subject us to your will? Why are there suddenly so many double standards for Chinese people??
hilmir Also, y'all making it sound like y'all face the same kind of oppression as minorities in the West- like Singaporean Chinese are as racist as white slave owners. But the fact is we are not. Y'all acting like just because y'all are minorities y'all kenna ill-treated until damn bad. But just because is minority means ill-treated Meh? In fact, anywhere you go there are also minorities what. Next door also, the Chinese are minorities in Malaysia.
@@boozhixuan6666 well, welcome to our reality. only difference, you are only receiving this NOW, when this has been ongoing for minorities. we have been told to shut up, to accept, and also be denied when we ask, who are you to subject us to your will. not so nice to get it back, right?
hilmir okay since when has a Chinese person literally word for word told you to shut up?
No, there is a big difference between preference and bias and outright racism. If you are attracted to a good looking person from your perspective, are you against someone who doesn’t fit what you feel is “not good looking enough”? I don’t know, some things need to be very carefully dissected before you label it as racism.
Go to Malaysia, they have a law that directly place non-muslims as a secondary citizen. (bumi-putra status)
I didnt watch that part. Are they now calling sexual prefences racism? Gen Z need to quit. So dumb! By that logic can we call them homophobic for not wanting to sleep with the same sex then?
They did a recent study and found that new Gen Z are more racist and homophobic than Millenials. Calling people racist or TERFs for having a sexual preference is disgusting. Especially for young gay people coming to terms with their sexuality. It's like conversion therapy.
@@trinity-qn1jj it's not racism. It's called a sexual preference. I understand wokies have decided to label it otherwise but majority of people dont go by your definitions. I mean should I call you sexist or transphobic if you only sleep with the opposite sex? Stop reading racism or prejudice where there isnt any. People have sexual preferences and that's normal and had no bearing on what you think of those people as people. Some people prefer black people. Some people prefer penis. It really isnt a big deal.
@@DarkAngel2512 💀 this dude literally told me I was “pretty for a black girl” n “I don’t date black girls, especially brown and dark ones” that’s not racist? I’m starting to be okay with the fact that I’ll be single for the rest of my life. He goes out now with a girl that’s almost identically like me only difference is skin color, n you call that not racist? pls I’m done talking to you.
Choosing a preferred race to date, isn’t racist, it’s preference. Unless, someone says “I don’t want to date (race) because (race) is ugly” then that’s racist but otherwise, it’s not racist, it’s personal preference.
i understand where ure coming from cos i had this view initially. however after listening to these speakers who are of minority races, it is also hard for us as chinese majority to understand and empathise with, solely because we have never experienced racial bias in dating before.
i think it may help to think of it this way. If you migrate to USA tomorrow, and started to date there, but most of your dates end up saying, sorry i prefer white or Caucasian people, i dont really date chinese. its their preference, but you will be hurt if you keep getting that over and over. and being to question, whats wrong with dating chinese? the preference is not wrong, its empathizing
@@Bryaneng27 this is a problem that can never be solved.. so what does one expect from the majority? date you out of sympathy?? that's also pretty racist. there isnt a society where minorities will not feel left out simply because it is a game of numbers.. no amount of policies and laws can help against that..
Omega_3_ which in conclusion, isn’t racist
Omega_3_ it’s the same as saying, “I prefer blonde over black hair” it’s a preference. Not racism.
Conversations like this really make me realise the importance of a good, intellectual, objective and critical moderator - if not, it just gets reduced into an echo chamber / one-sided conversation, which is what I think this video really has been. And that is dangerous.
Content producers / platforms which have a sizeable following need to be responsible for what they put out.
I agree! "Discussions" like these where they are just answering questions and explaining their answers are really not fruitful. There was no conclusion drawn, neither was there a consensus on the definition of certain terms used e.g. "racism is discrimination with power" , "post-racial utopia", and even the most basic - what is racism? Less discerning viewers will walk away from this video none the wiser. A good, professional moderator should be present to raise thoughtful, timely questions that clarify opinions, or even pose difficult questions that make the participants think more critically. It was very frustrating to watch this video - it should be called a chitchat/conversation between friends rather than being presented as an intellectual discourse.
Lim Jing Yi well said. Sometimes the world cares more about theatrical value than fostering real robust discourse.
Yes, this was counterproductive, and will inspire more bigotry such as that expressed when saying Chinese people have small eyes or "privilege"
i agree but easier said than done. who is this 'perfect' moderator pray tell? can you even name a person in sg let alone the world who can do this job well? i doubt so. therein lies the issue.
personally, while doesn’t racism exist in a power vacuum, i do not think it is okay for the minority race to discriminate or hold any prejudice against the majority race. it’s the same analogy as, just because someone bullies you it doesn’t exactly give you the authority to bully them back. it is important that as entire society we do not marginalise or discriminate any race. we must get rid of any preconceived notions that as a minority or as a majority we have certain rights/privileges. if you would feel excluded if your friends spoke in a language you didn’t understand then don’t ever do the same to others.
"Outside of this conversation, whatever I do to you doesn't really change your lived experience." What kind of dumb fk logic is this. If you want to have a discussion about a sensitive topic like this, invite more intelligent people please
i agree. when she said that it does not affect his lived experience i had to stop watching. she discriminating someone IS affecting someone's experience, dont understand why there are double standards.
Hello, John from the video here. I think before we rush to pass angry labels on people let's take a step back to internalise the views shared here, especially those that we don't necessarily agree with. As a part of this panel I am glad that I managed to do more listening than talking because as someone who never felt any of the emotions expressed here, I thought I ought to give a chance to someone to share their story. It is easy to call someone ridiculous, but it's difficult to listen to something seemingly ridiculous and try to see if there are things to internalise. Some of the sharings might not be the most immediately palatable and I understand that to some of us it might even sound incredibly hypocritical and accusatory. I understand this well because I was there. But I realised that if we took the time to internalise the conversation topics and the opinions, we come to realise that there certainly are things to reflect upon even if we disagree with the specific action being described. And I think that was the intention when we opened this sensitive topic up because as singaporeans we ought to try to see our fellow man's plight before we aim to correct their mindset :)
@@johnedward7498 I don't understand how I am supposed to "internalise" or "reflect upon" the idea of reverse racism/double standards. Most of the things they've said in the video I have emphathised with but some are just purely flawed/misconstrued/self-absorbed ideas. I understand where you are coming from though, thanks for clarifying.
@@swimmingpoolz You need perspective. It isn't "dumb fk logic" at all and she certainly is an intelligent, young lady. Different people have different understandings of what "racism" entails. To some, discriminating against any race (be it the majority or minority) in "any setting" is racism. To others, it is the "lived experience" that matters. In other words, it is the power imbalances reflected in one's everyday encounters coupled with the discriminatory treatment that is termed "racism". You can agree or disagree with the definition adopted, but to dismiss her view as "dumb fk logic" is uncalled for.
The chances of a Chinese person in Singapore finding themselves in the position of a minority is rare (e.g. when you travel overseas or you are employed in a workplace that predominantly has people of another race). More often than not, the "racist" encounters you may have had are one-off. You have the option of removing yourself from that situation with ease (e.g. return to Singapore, move to any other workplace). Second, the reason why power imbalances matter when it comes to racism is because the impact of racist statements on someone in power will be much more muted. If I, as a minority, said something along the lines of "Chinese people are ugly" or "I will never date a Chinese" or "I don't wish to rent to you because you are Chinese", the effect of these statements are much more muted because they do not serve to reinforce your lived experience. You know that my statements mean nothing because the majority view is different and that you, as a Chinese person, have inherently more privileges than I do.
With that being said, it is basic common sense for one to be more inclusive of minorities (in any setting). What this means is that if a Chinese person finds themselves being the minority in any situation, it is basic courtesy to include and not exclude them by speaking in a language he cannot understand.
I’m not one to say this because I’m of the majority race but as a majority race, I feel that, racism is still racism even if a power/non-power race, mention something racist. U can’t be like “hey look at this guy, he’s black” and deem it as racist but when someone who’s of minority says “hey look, he’s white” and because he’s of the minority that is making this statement and “he knows what racism is because he’s of the minority” then he’s not racist. There’s no such thing as “just because you’re of the minority, you’re not racist” that’s absolutely bullshit because a statement made about a race, be it from a minority or majority, is still racist. So when it comes to minority or majority, we have to “judge” a person not of their race but what they said
Wish more people understood this.
hmm i get what you’re trying to say but i think what you mean is discriminatory. everyone can be discriminated against, BUT what makes racism different is that you are discriminated FOR simply being that race. also, the majority race don’t face discrimination FOR their race because of the societal privileges that they have while the minority has actual societal things that they are excluded from (jobs, renting apartments, opportunities to go to certain schools etc.) or receive derogatory comments simply because of their race. so to say that power doesn’t matter is very wrong and only you can say that because of your privilege. a minority can be discriminatory towards a person from a majority race but this is more of racial prejudice and NOT racism. that is why reverse racism does not exist.
xZeerah it’s not that majority race don’t receive racism, it’s how we deal with it. And yes it doesn’t affect us as much because we’re of the majoriry
xZeerah and from what u said, does it mean that blacks can be racist and whites can’t? So to counter ur statement, reverse racism works, it’s just how the race deal with it or how much they’re affected by it
While this debate between "discrimination" and "racism" may seem like semantics, I do think it matters. Discrimination, from what I understand in this context, is more of a catch-all term, while racism takes into account the power and structural imbalance of the context and is a more severe form of discrimination. But both are bad, right? Yes, undoubtedly. But they're not equal. If someone who's been a victim of a violent robbery and comes to us badly bruised an injured, would "oh, yes, that's bad. It happened to me too, I've been pick pocketed before" or "suck it up, it happens to everyone, I was just pick pocketed last week" be an appropriate response? As Jon says, we let's engage with empathy as a starting point. As Chinese people living in a majority-Chinese society, this conversation about racism makes us feel uncomfortable because to admit it exists is to admit that we've been complicit in an unjust system and that we're the "bad guys." But if we focus too much on why we're not racist, or why we can also be victims of racism, it'll be very hard to improve and rehabilitate the status quo. And yes, on a micro-level we all have our own struggles in our careers and personal lives, but this conversation about racism is not about that: let's first seek to understand where our minority friends are coming from and maybe not make this about us?
The 3 guys looked so oppressed during the discussion and looked scared to voice a differing view. 😅😅
i think it is racist to assume indian men date chinese women to increase their privilege. i also believe that thomas is entitled to his “preferences”. so deesha, following your logic, i hope you would be okay dating someone different from you (race, disability, socioeconomic background, height, etc) too. so stop making snide remarks and think you’ll get away with it because you’re a minority. i believe that both majorities and minorities are racists and it’s because of how we have different experiences. you can’t change an opinion/feeling but you can change how you respond to diverse people.
J she’s hopeless.
Karim Khan they mostly date rich and educated indian guys who are better than them social status wise and looks wise. And as a minority myself, ill never date them. I think the majority of the minorities are like this. Its just a handful of the minorities marrying them likewise a handful of the majorities marrying the minorities lmao
Yeah i agree with you J. She is playing the victim card. Pfft
@@sanmatrix2 you are just basically stereotyping all minority women smh! every individual is different
She needs to date women or shes being homophobic. That's her logic.
To open up conversation, I think we need a more balanced point of view. The intention of the video is there, but everything said is very one sided.
If identifying someone by their race is racist, why do they keep saying Chinese this and Chinese that?
Racism shouldn’t exist, period. Some Chinese need to be more aware, and be more sensitive. Fully agree. But I also want to carefully point out that some people of color need to unlearn part of what they deem as racist.
There are a lot of grey area in this topic but somehow it’s just “racist” or “not racist”. Why isn’t there anyone bringing up another point of view to make it more balanced? John is there to just listen, be sensitive about it and be enlightened. That is good. But how is there no one bringing alternative point of view to make it a fairer discussion, if we are having one? By constantly pointing out that the Chinese are privileged and has power, how is this going to educate the younger people watching the video?
We all need to learn and unlearn, help each other. We need to show patience and love and understanding. To everyone. By throwing the word racist at everything, how is that going to help anyone grow?
If today my parents, who have primary school education, wants to see a doctor but they can only converse in Chinese. How are they racist? If Sofeah was there, she would just label my parents as racist. And how is this fair?
How is identifying someone by their race racist? If we are talking racism, all the more you should be proud of your race? If I call someone brown, that can potentially be racist as well if that person thinks It is. Where is the middle ground in this?
If there is any intention of having a discussion, I think we need to have both sides’ POV to make it a more meaningful and thought provoking one. This is not it.
And everyone laughs when “the Chinese wants to be the white”. Nope.
Respectfully, I have to disagree. Nobody owes us a discussion. Nobody owes us Chinese people a chance to feel heard and seen when we are The Most heard and seen in daily life. Zula's video, like they said in their comment, was to amplify the voices of minorities, who are not often given a chance to be heard on a public platform. If we want a discussion, we should be seeking out our friends of minority races around us, engaging with them as people and as equals. And we should be willing to at least let them have this public platform to share their experiences. The act of sharing is often difficult when someone is always out to invalidate your experience to protect their own ego, which is exactly what the bulk of comments on this video have been doing - invalidating minority voices. So that's why this public platform is so important to them. If you still cannot accept that, maybe it's good to look inwards and reflect on why we find it necessary to defend the egos of Chinese people so strongly, even when others are telling us that our actions are hurting them.
@@beanie82 Let me make this clear. I agree a HUNDRED percent that we need to amplify minority voices. Please understand this before i go on. And I did not say we need to invalidate their opinion neither did I say we need to defend Chinese ego. In one of my comment, I said we cannot put out blanket statements because this video goes out to the masses. And I can see what they are trying to achieve and I fully support it. I just really do think the delivery needs to be better. This is the danger which I don't think you are seeing. Being Chinese doesn't mean I just keep quiet and even when I have questions or I SLIGHTLY disagree with something, I cannot raise it up. Perfect example in this video, a patient doesn't want to speak to you because he/she thinks you don't understand Chinese immediately is racist. Can we put out message like this for the masses, even to the younger vulnerable crowd, which also happens to be Zula's target audience? If you think it is okay to immediately label people as racist this way, you are entitled to your opinion. I still firmly believe that they SHOULD voice their hurt, we SHOULD listen to their story BUT we should be careful with the delivery. Especially with blanket statements. Words carry weight.
z I would agree with you that if a patient is condescending, it can be racist. But let me ask you, if a patient barely speaks English and has limited vocabulary, are you sure all of them can form proper sentences? And again, this depends on each situation and does not apply to all Chinese patients that chose not to speak English? Furthermore, do we really know if all the Chinese patients were trying to be condescending? I mean, do you know them? Do I know them? No. And lastly, you said Malays elderly say it politely. So you’re saying Malays elderly are polite and Chinese elderly aren’t? Are you so sure to make such a generalization? Are Chinese elderly not capable of being polite? Because I think my grandma is super polite, my mum is very nice to everyone around her even though they both cannot speak Chinese. That to me, is wrong. And seems like you need to better master the art as well. To summarize, you should look at individual situation and decide whether it’s racist or not. Her delivery was wrong in that she generalized every situations she encountered as racist, and your delivery is wrong when you generalize all Malays elderly as polite whereas Chinese elderly have no manners. Anyone can be polite, and anyone can be rude. Be objective was all I said.
you just want a pro-chinese video 😑 and don’t want to accept racism exist in singapore.
identifying someone by thier race means this minority person stands out from the crowd due to the colour of his skin which isn’t nice.
First of racism is when you have prejudices and stereotypes based on someone’s skin colour and think they are inferior to u.
i felt the video was very well-balanced you just don’t want to accept the fact that racism exist in singapore.
when they say chinese people have privileges means they have less barriers to overcome. if you are dark skin u are much more vulnerable to being bullied whic causes low self esteem and low self confidence which can be carried to adulthood and have long term effects. me being dark skin i am made to feel i am ugly and undesirable and hate my own skin colour hence i have to climb one extra mountain of learning to accept my ugly dark skin which majority 70% chinese people in singapore do not have to go thorough.
this is nothing to do with race if you are a minority literally in any country u will definitely face more hardships then a majority this is just facts . this are priveleges of being part of the majority.
and no one should be proud of their race no human being CHOSE their race nobody CHOSE thier skin colour. nobody worked hard and earned to be any race hence it’s stupid to feel “proud “ for something you were just born with.
this video literally had both sides there were guys who said “not racist “ too you just want a video that says “ racism don’t exist in sg” and don’t want to accept facts 😐
maybe in your next life you can be a minority in whatever country then only you will truly understand the pain
when she says ‘ Chinese people want to be white’ and expresses that as going to the ‘next level’, she is basically trying to normalise the superiority of a certain race, which is obviously the opposite of what this video is trying to do here. Sometimes we subconsciously believe a certain race is of a higher level because of the series of historical events (e.g the whites discriminating against the asians because of fear that they might take over in the 1920s) and this is what we have to debunk but by assuming that people want to be white because they want to go to the ‘next level’, that is outright WRONG and as people of colour we should stop having such a mentality if we want to achieve equality.theres thisChinese word ‘崇洋‘ which means looking up to/admiring the westerners and I think it should be stopped regardless of race.:)
And racism is NOT believing a person of a certain race fits your preferences. It is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.(Google) By saying that he prefers someone of a specific ethnicity BECAUSE he would be able to relate to her, I think that is justifiable. It is also a double standard in a sense that ‘ I want to date a Chinese person because I am Chinese’ is perceived as more wrong or more racist than ‘ I want to date an Indian because I’m indian’.
And when she says ‘ minorities have to tiptoe around Chinese people’ I really do feel sad because as Singaporeans, it should be inborn that we respect people for who they are and I truly feel it’s getting better increasingly with more generations to come. However I realised that Chinese people also feel that they have to tiptoe around minorities because they are fearful of insulting them. I remember a time in school when my Malay friends were insulting Chinese people and at that time, I felt oppressed to speak up because I’m a majority and I SHOULD endure such things because I’m ‘privileged’ and imo this is wrong. Just like it is false to say that black people cant be racist, it goes the same for other minorities too. However I 100% feel that Chinese people should be respectful to other races and likewise. I truly despise people who carry prejudices around people of other races. this brings me to my next pt on ‘racism with power’ I don’t feel that only people of a majority are racist and minorities cannot be. If we take it into perspective, does that mean I, a Chinese can only be racist in Singapore because I have ‘power’ but I cannot be racist in let’s say US because I’m part of a minority??? That just doesn’t click with me.
Lastly, I feel that most of the points in this video are directed to the Chinese because they think that only the majority can be racist. If we continue to have that mindset, you’ll never solve racism because you are just ‘allowing’ or justifying a situation where a minority is racist to a person of another race.
Stereotypes are and always will be there but we CANNOT use these stereotypes to judge the way we think or view a person because of the colour of their skin. It is also very wrong to use derogatory words/stereotypes of a certain race to back up your narrative,it just goes to show how immature you are that you cannot support your claim without saying such things.
I know I cannot speak for the minorities in Singapore and I am definitely sure we are all appreciative of living in Singapore. I cannot envision myself living in a country like us where freedom of speech is advocated but at the expense of the safety and comfort of minority races. It is easy to criticise the negatives of societal practices/norms but at the same time, we should learn to appreciate and be thankful of what we have here in Singapore. By ranting on the very rare instances where you felt discriminated because of your race, and at the same time not acknowledging how lucky it is to be a minority living in sg as compared to other countries, you are really opening doors for young people to be skeptical and critical of living in sg. I agree with the intention of the video but it was carried out very one sidedly because racism is not something that can be instilled in a person just like that. These videos puts innocent Chinese people in a bad light because it only emphasises on racism by Chinese towards the minority and I know many other Chinese people like me who would NEVER EVER discriminate against other races.
You brought up many valid points, and I as a POC echo v similar feelings.
However, I ask that you do not put down the frequent lived experiences of minorities as "very rare occurrences". As a non POC, I do not expect you to have faced the same number of instances where you've been discriminated against as us minorities. As such, its not really fair of you to call them "very rare". How would you know? Did you ask your Malay and Indian friends? Don't answer that. That was rhetorical. Minorities aren't a monolith.
Furthermore, I fail to see how any of the participants here "ranted" about anything. Most of them explained their opinions in a calm and organised manner. Unless, you feel that the very act of speaking up about racism is unwarranted and rant-y, I do not think anyone did anything that resembles all the negative connotations that "rant" carries.
Next, comparing ourselves with other countries on matters such as these is not really the right way to decide we're at a good position. We have lots to untangle as a society, and we should be looking inwards to find problems, not outwards to decide our problems aren't a big deal. Just because the other countries are worse off, does not mean people living here must be thankful and not critical. Nothing is ever perfect. Being critical is the only avenue to better ourselves as a nation. Not thinking all is fine and dandy cos you are unwilling to promote criticality.
Additionally, I completely agree that racism cannot be instilled in a person just like that. Its a learned behavior, over years and years of passive learning, picking up on what near and dear around one say. But, what does this have to do with this conversation being one sided? Also, how was this conversation one sided? What actually is the other side to the collective argument out forth by this bunch?
Lastly, while you, and many many MANY like you would never ever think to discriminate others by their race, it detracts from the main point isn't it? There still exist people who discriminate against minorities. Its these people that these conversations are deconstructing. "Im Chinese but I'm not like this" never helps the conversation. Its an obvious implicit argument that this is targeted towards offenders. So, why flounder? We aren't talking about you.
pranave2 I understand how you might think I am trivialising the situation but I certainly am not. I agree that some of the words I’ve used might have oversimplified or overgeneralise the situation. For that, I would like to apologise.
Comparing ourselves with other countries enable us to appreciate what we have here, although not perfect, we know that we are indeeed improving. This does not mean Singapore is a racist-free country, I don’t think it ever will be . however, I think it’s absolutely alright to recognise the benefits of living in racially tolerant country while acknowledging said issues here in sg. This is what I was aiming for. I don’t think it’s right to criticise the government to an extent where we discard/discredit them for the effort in obstructing xenophobia from seeping into societal norms/circumstances.(although not 100% successful)
The reason why I felt that the conversation was one sided was due to the unproclaimed notion of “majority do not face racism, so they won’t understand and hence should keep their opinions to themselves” it can be perceived from the way “majority” races in the video was shot down quickly when given the chance to express their views and thoughts and hence felt that it was not their place to speak up. Like I’ve said above, I too have xperienced such a scenario and it is really an unnecessary double standard.
“ Did you ask your Malay and Indian friends? Don’t answer that. It was a rhetorical qn” um, firstly it is not a rhetorical qn and secondly, you don’t want me to answer it because you already know the answer to this. You know that minorities in sg have not been oppressed and by admitting to it, your point would be slightly off. I do agree that minorities in Singapore, or rather every part of the world do face a certain degree of racism due to the colour of their skin, which I stand by my point that it should not happen, especially in Singapore. Just like it was spoken about in the video, if a country has the ability to change this landscape, it would be Singapore. We have to stand together to fight this antagonism towards marginalised community and I’m for that.
Lastly when you say POC, I’m assuming you are referring to person of colour. I hope you actually do realise that we are all people of colour, so maybe change to majority?
@@Amelitasim First off, thank you for acknowledging your mistake.
I agree, comparison is welcome, but not at the expense of criticality, which is what you said in your last para. We can lavish in our wealth, at the same time acknowledge our short comings. I would never ask anyone not to be proud SG, but not to take that we live in the closest instance to Utopia. We need to open our eyes to see that we are still ways off, even if much better than other countries.
WRT the notion that the Chinese were pigeonholed to not facing discrimination: one the first watch through (after which I responded to your comment) I could not pick up this nuance that was being brought across. However, on watching the video again, I can see how some poorly worded phrases may carry that connotation.
"secondly, you don’t want me to answer it because you already know the answer to this." Yes, I didn't need an answer, because "Minorities aren't a Monolith". I also think you may have missed my point. Do you see how calling lived experiences as "very rare" comes from a place of power? To take a stand that these occurrences do not take place often comes from privilege in that you have not faced the same amount of discrimination as minorities.
Furthermore, what harm can come from accepting that these occurrences are not rare and occur more frequently? The offenders are taught the error of their ways through increased discourse to hopefully rewrite their harmful stereotypes and notions. However, by dismissing minorities' experiences as one off or rare, nothing is changed, or things worsen. Isn't is for the betterment of SG society that we pay heed to the voices of minorities who raise such issues?
But I am well aware that you are pro-change, and you would like to see SG better as a whole. Hence, you shouldn't be actively dismissing lived experiences of minorities.
pranave2 the last three paragraphs are talking about the same instance of racism towards minorities being “rare occurance” to which I have apologised and realised that it is wrong for me to speak of behalf of others.
All in all, I really do appreciate your constructive feedback and your acknowledgement on several of my views to which we could eventually come to a common ground. Well respected, I must say!
pranave2 non poc? Since when are the chinese non poc? There are many black chinese in singapore and i am probably whiter than most if you are talking about skin color. And i am not one of them lol. And when i meant black, i meant skin tone wise. Tan and black.
Wow, Deesha!
Maybe, just maybe, the movie subtitles are in Chinese because we live in a country where 75% of the population is Chinese and it appeals to the mass market. Would it make more sense to put the subtitles in Swahili then? It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with capitalism (the only colour capitalism cares about is green - money).
Before we start claiming everything is racist, let us just think for a second.
Maybe, Just maybe, guys don't like you/want to date you because of your individual attitude/personality if this is a reoccurring incident. We should all be accountable for our actions. It's wrong for Deesha to generalise those Indian men like Chinese women simply because of 'privilege'. To do this is to discount all the amazing endearing qualities the individual has that made them attractive in the first place. Such a straw man fallacy that removes all accountability from herself.
Surprised this video doesn't have more dislikes. Misinformed and unenjoyable. Some good points though. (btw I'm an Indian male in case you're wondering)
D couldn’t agree more, she was projecting so much.
Indians like Chinese girls because of privilege??? Then why do white guys like them? So they can oppress them? These people can make any action into a racist aggression. You can never win, so don't engage.
Instead of movies, we should be pushing for multiple language subtitles for the local news station official youtube channels. On the TV/Movies, there is a restriction since you are showing the same screen to a diverse group of people, but they can do better on youtube.
@@noshet786 True! There needed to be a moderator, someone who was not taking sides or offering opinions. It was all very one sided and one dimensional. Especially the part about dating, when it is tied to so many Other factors other than race. And as you said, a lot of their viewers are at an impressionable age...
This is a fine example of what a panel discussion should NOT be like. An objective moderator should be around to steer the conversation, and engage with statements made before moving on as it seems that most participants were allowed to make statements without much justification. Otherwise, it would just be an echo chamber with everyone making politically correct statements or sharing anecdotal experiences in which there is no meaningful discussion. Was excited to watch this when I read the title but ended up disappointed with the content. Zula has good intentions, but should ensure that there is depth in a (two-way) discussion on a sensitive topic like this one before putting it out there.
From a production perspective, this current format is way easier to execute. And theatrical value is also there. Win-win.
@@MaxJoseph999 another huge advantage is you don't need to find intelligent or original people. They can spend 10 mins watching videos on critical race theory and get directly to regurgitating total nonsense
how do you find an objective person when even an everyone has their own racial biases that are affected by their own lived experiences. what all these participants are doing is just sharing their experiences and to listen to each other.
i don’t think race should be a sensitive topic and i think the point of this video was not to spread an agenda or come to a definitive conclusion to the questions asked in this video. I think this video was just to start a conversation with the viewers.
Tigris 797 I agree. It’s unrealistic to have this so called ideal moderator everyone is asking for. Everyone has different lived experiences and biases. Sharing ur thoughts on racism is nothing wrong. But what’s wrong is no one constructively criticising or rebutting contradictions or correcting biases and hence perpetuating these biases and flawed arguments in the participants.
Its very disappointing people fight for no racism but do not see themselves becoming the racists. It is fine to share your negative experiences with others but to bring it far enough to say the majority are in power, chinese tryna be white and make slander comments against them, it is basically bullying your bully. Doesn't look better on you. :/
I can say you, but you cannot say me. It’s jialat. If this is how we want to have such conversations - conversations that are broadcasted and shared with a large audience - I think our society will really go downhill la.
Tbh, having a preferred race for a partner is not racist. Ultimately, everyone should be entitled to their preferences and should not be deemed a racist just because of their inclination towards a certain race for dating.
Think of it lah, you want to eat pork or eat beef anot
WeiWen WWE Discrimination towards lizard meat leh. Why you never include
@@boiledpotato9826 you eat lo, if you record video of eat I will promise not to discriminate against lizard meat, frog meat, insect meat or anything
I don't think most of us identify as racist, but it's perfectly possible for non-racists to commit racist/racially prejudicial acts. We all have moral blind spots. In this specific case, instead of asking whether having racial preferences is racist, it may be a more worthwhile endeavor to ask why we have racial preferences. I wonder if these "racial preferences" are really a faulty mental shortcut for shared cultural background/socio-economic upbringing/sense of humor etc. But using race as a vector runs the risk of perpetuating unjust stereotypes as well as unnecessarily limiting your pool potential partners. I daresay most people won't be compatible with the majority of people in their own race. If I were to be more cynical, if our perception of what's attractive is determined by the media or other external influences--media portrayal of all attractive people being white, and in Singapore, Chinese, while most villains are played by minority races, or minorities being reduced to caricatures--then we ought to challenge ourselves.
Jason Li I agree with what you said about racial prejudice being engrained in our minds due to how the media portrays minority races in not a bad light per se, but an unfavourable one at that and is probably true that we would get along better with those of our same race. However, if one were to blatantly refuse someone else based solely on their race, not taking into account other traits of an individual, that is racism.
Isn’t sofeah being unconsciously racist as well when she said “ I tried to make my eyes as small as possible.” Then by that she is insinuating that Chinese people have small eyes.
That itself is stereotyping and also playing on a racist joke about how Chinese people have small eyes etc.
I agree! But when she was using it as an example to showcase how incidents in her life led her to do thing that were not right and that she's ultimately shameful of, I think that's incredibly brave! To highlight a flaw in society by describing your flawed reaction to it is something not many of us have the mettle to admit in a face to face conversation. If anything we should not shoot her down for using the example to paint a picture, we should be asking ourselves why someone had to do something that we personally have to had to do regardless of our race. This of course, goes both ways :)
I feel like, as what was highlighted in 14:56, racism is discrimination with power. And while you may feel uncomfortable with this insinuation, honestly this "racist stereotype" has no bearing on us as Chinese in this society whatsoever. (plus honestly you're lying if you say that this "stereotype" has adversely affected you in any significant way in local context hahaha) I think by choosing to focus on that 1 second where she mentions this, out of the entire recount of her experience rejecting her Malay attributes for something that would be more congruent to the majority race, you're missing the point she's trying to make haha
what i don’t understand is, even chinese people themselves despise their small eyes? as someone who went to neighbourhood schools my entire life, I was constantly bullied for my small eyes, flat nose and face and fair skin? (by people of various races)
she said she used to.
000111 My question is then why does she have this stereotype? Is this stereotype really reflective of that race ? Does this stereotype have negative connotations ? Ie when people make fun of chinese, many times, it’s about their eyes.
BUT if the majority race (chinese) said remarked that kind of stereotypes against other races , then it would instantly be racist. Double standards much?
Scratching my head when Deesha said Thomas is racist for having preferences to date a chinese girl.
I need a Xiaxue react to this video.
racial preferences are racist, because 'preference' means that you are prioritising one group of people, and excluding others based on race alone. you posted a comment below about stereotyping, and often this is what preference/racism is based on: assumptions we have of certain people without even getting to know them. when we create barriers of entry based on race (whether it is for jobs, dating, or housing), we are being racist.
i get that this is hard to reconcile or understand for many because it is something we do everyday - we make assumptions about people, we include & exclude people based on race, gender, sexuality etc. but this is where we have to stop and ask ourselves: why do i only date (or want to date) people from a certain race? what biases do i have that i haven't realised? am i being unfair to people by excluding them because of assumptions i have? what can i do about that?
@@deeshamenon6178 Just curious on your opinion on this! I agree that it's wrong to have assumptions of people without even getting to know them and that there should still be some level of openness in getting to know people of other races before deciding whether or not to date them. However, I do think race is not purely a label but comes with certain valid conjectures for instance, someone who is Chinese would tend to have a certain culture and upbringing, and having a "preference" for a certain race would also mean have a preference for a particular background/culture/mindset - these are large and important parts of someone which I can see why many would take into consideration when choosing a partner, and many of which are heavily influenced (but I agree not determined) by race. Hence, I would think it is not necessarily "racist" to have a certain "preference" in mind - as based on likelihood and probability (which are natural to assess) they may tend to fit a certain culture which is influenced by race.
@ssvegeto say it louder for those at the back
@@deeshamenon6178 going with your notion, would i be "sexist" if i said i would never consider dating someone who was gay and attracted to my gender, when i am straight? to me it falls in the same line as personal preference. and i get that who's to say whats racist or not with regards to one's justification for their racial preference.
if it's something as trivial as preference, i know it still shouldnt get brushed off, but most of the time (hopefully) there is no malicious intent in someone stating their preference. and not everyone's racial preference will remain unchanged throughout their love life. some people are just simply more comfortable with being intimate with someone else of their own race. let them be in their comfort zone.
i am mixed myself (filipino + chinese) and like thomas, i identify very much as chinese because of the way i was brought up here in sg. i have never been exposed to my filipino roots - nonetheless, still proud of the heritage that i can discover on my own time. and like thomas, i admit i am more comfortable with dating chinese people. of course i would be open to dating people of other races too though; it all comes down to chemistry.
edit: and what thoughts would you have regarding people who date people of other races, mainly for the sake of being in an interracial relationship? thats excluding people of their own race, and including people of other races. thats also a kind of racial preference that exists. thats still using other races to define a person. what do you think?
@@deeshamenon6178 ohmygod dating a person is such a personal choice. It affects our lives greatly because we might even go on to form a family with them.
It is different from housing and jobs, to be frank, I don't even understand why housing is brought up in this topic. Isn't the government in control of HDB selection because they're trying to ensure that all races live together? So there will never be the issue of all chinese living in the north or all malays living in the west or all Indians living in the east. There's no segregation. All races live peacefully. Why are people saying there's racism present? Can anyone enlighten me on this?
For jobs, I may understand that people could behave in insensitive manners. Like not wanting to hang out or eat with a certain race due to culture preferences like muslims have to eat halal and the chinese tend to prefer non-halal food. I, myself am vegetarian and I understand how difficult it is for people to eat with me. Because we have to find places that serve vegetarian food. I completely respect others' decisions if they don't want to eat with me, because it's not convenient and certain days they may have cravings. I don't think they're discriminating against me. Before I chose to be vegetarian, I already know of the social effects and I accept it and decided to go ahead regardless. There will be friends or people who don't mind and that's a bonus.
I'm not saying that "oh I'm a Muslim and therefore I should accept that it's difficult to eat with me because I only go for halal-certified foods. Oh this is the consequence of choosing to practise Islam." I'm just saying that people tend to have their own preferences and lifestyle habits and it's not wrong if things don't suit or go their ways.
And back to dating preferences, I understand it sounds discriminatory when people say "I don't date a certain race". Have you thought further why do people say that? Could it be due to the way they were nurtured and brought up, and heavily influenced by their own culture?
For example what Thomas said. He said he's brought up predominantly by a chinese mother and therefore, prefers dating a Chinese. Whereas his brother was brought up by a European father, and therefore he prefers dating Europeans. These 2 cultures alone are already very different in the way how people think and behave. How a chinese behaves vs a how european behaves. This goes back into the lifestyle habits I was talking earlier like food for example. Perhaps a pork obsessed person only wants to find a partner who shares his passion in food, and go on food hunts, and this way of living is how he wants to live. Is it therefore discriminatory that this person doesn't want to date a vegetarian? No! Because it doesn't fit into their lifestyles. Unless this person loves his vegetarian partner enough that he's willing to give that dream up.
I think interracial marriages are a bonus, for the difficulties faced in integrating 2 different cultures. It shouldn't be expected as a norm and if people don't date a different race, you label them as racist. This term "racist" is then loosely thrown around. No one will take it seriously when it's used in future trust me, if this term keeps getting loosely used around.
I think what Thomas meant is that he'll CONSIDER dating a different race if they share similar traits. But after considering how he wants to live his life with his partner, he has decided he wants to only date Chinese due to sharing the same culture or lifestyle habits. In my opinion, it is not wrong and not racist.
If today a chinese reject you, why not go and find another chinese who will accept you? It can't be that in a population of 5.6 million, with 70% being chinese, there's no single person that will date a different race. If someone you want to date says "I don't date your race", you could perhaps prove to him/her that you're eligible and have good qualities. If he/she does not want then, it's their loss. Flip you hair, walk away and find another one.
All the best.
The way I see it is that racism is when you think you’re superior to another race or have the intent to hurt them. Statements like “you may sit beside the Indian girl/Chinese boy” is not racist at all because it is for identification purposes. Y’all gonna get even more offended when someone says “You may sit beside the dark skinned woman” anyway when no one meant it as an insult. If you guys are gonna go by this logic then I’m gonna say some of the minorities in this vid are racist af, repeatedly calling out “Chinese” for being racist just because they are the majority. Which brings me to the point that having privilege does not equal racism. It just mean you have the power to help. Why would you even want to help people who DEMANDS the help anyway? Lmao.
The WisePlant Racism is not just black and white. There are many aspects to racism. Casual racism, systemic racism, institutional racism are also forms of racism. I agree that what you have pointed out may not be racism about the indian girl/chinese boy but maybe the dark skinned woman part wouldn't be desirable. Yes, it's a description, but you have to understand that dark skinned people have been oppressed for many many years and for them to be a little "sensitive" is justifiable. There are better ways to do so. "The dark skinned woman" just sounds demeaning.
People are DEMANDING action because we have been oppressed for way too long. Some people may be too aggressive but do not belittle the efforts of others who are genuine.
Also, to reply to your reply to me (couldn't find your comment), yes, I was unconsciously racist once because of how I was taught since young. But I learn the good, and unlearnt the bad. I am now more conscious of my thoughts and actions. Can you say the same for yourself? If yes, then good. Please continue to support the minorities.
Luqman Huqqim I agree the world is ambiguous and it would best if everyone can be more sensitive to each other. But what I’m highlighting is the dangerous issue that some minorities actually think they’re not racist just because they’re minorities. And this shouldn’t be justifiable.
What I’m trying to say is that people should practice what they preach and not call people out for being a racist while doing the exact same bullshit.
I totally agree with every single point you mentioned though. It’s not very thoughtful to call someone “dark skinned” cos they may be affected (which shouldn’t be the case cos there’s nothing wrong being dark). I was using it as an example to show that there’s indeed no b/w line, cos people have different awareness and sensitivity levels. Some get triggered, some don’t even see a prob cos they’re proud of their skin (amazing).
Ultimately it goes both ways. We’ve to kindly educate those who’re subconsciously racist, outright racist, and also those who’re more sensitive (To not take everything as a personal attack. Cos it’s dangerous if you think the world is coming at you when it may be just pure intentions)
I am not belittling the efforts of those who are genuine and I will continue supporting the minorities too. Hopefully one day we’ll come to a point no one will feel ashamed of their skin colour and calling someone dark or fair will not be deemed as “demeaning”, but just a statement.
Sorry if I came across as aggressive with my arguments.
lmao majority of any country on earth will always be more racist compared to the minorities this is just FACTS! nothing to do with being chinese or not but being part of majority/minority. It is facts that MAJORITY of racist people in sg are chinese cuz they are the majority hence it is natural. but I am against all forms of racism against anyone. But you cant deny minorities face far more racism compared to majority. Just ask any minority person almost all have a personal story of racism but less chinese would face racial discrimination as they are the majority. You cant even handle one person being racist to u imagine being A MINORITY and facing stereotypes, discrimination, racism and prejudices on a much more occasional basis. and you cant even complain about it as people like u will claim they are just "sensitive" smh! you clearly lack empathy.
chinese people want to make racist jokes and minorites cant even complain about it as they will be labelled as "sensitive" but when racist jokes are made against the chinese they start crying here is an example : www.asiaone.com/digital/french-student-singapore-slammed-defending-slanted-eye-instagram-post-says-its-not-racist?amp
nowadys if you go and read any facebook commnets there is never ending racsim against indians and CECA, yet we cant complain if not we are are "sensitive" smh!!
and in a classroom where there are all chinese and one malay student and the teacher says " sit beside the malay guy" it is a reminder that the malay person is differnt from everyone else in the room as the teacher wont say " sit beside the chinese guy" as everyone is chinese ( as they are the majority )
you dont understand what it feels like to walk into a room knowing you will never fit in cuz of the colour of your skin which you didnt even choose, is like being punished for something you are born with.
I dare you to be a minority and go through the prejudice, racism, discrimination and stereotypes and you cant even complain about it if not you are just "sensitive" you have to be emotionally strong or else u will just drown
@@spots-
To your first paragraph -
I agree. The majority of any country is always going to have more privileges. Like you said, it’s natural. In Sg’s case, it’s the Chinese who has it. *I did not deny that minorities are facing more racism. *
Do you realise what we are arguing about are mutually exclusive points? Like comparing apples and oranges.
You’re saying: Minorities face racism more (Which I don’t deny)
While I’m saying: Practice what you preach
By quoting the article, you contradicted your own point about being racist because you’re letting that one Chinese who cried represent the whole race as being “butt-hurt”. When we should be seeing them as individuals.
Can I just conclude:
1) I am not denying that minorities are facing less racism.
2) I just dont like seeing people making points that contradict themselves 😭
3) I am not invalidating your feelings
To your “Sit beside Chinese/Malay boy” example. It is very sad that you and some other people who feel that being different is a bad thing. I do wish you change that mindset. Good luck to you.
I’d recommend the following books:
-The things you can see only when you slow down by Haemin Sumin
-101 ways that will change the way you think by Brianna Wiest
-The courage to be happy by Ichiro Kiroshimi
@@boiledpotato9826 when you are a child it is natural to want to fit in, nobody wants to be different and be treated differently, being darker skin or non-chinese makes one more vulnerable to bullying, racism which affects the child's self-esteem and self-confidence which can be carried forward to adulthood and have long term effects, personally i can relate well with other asian americans as they know also
know how it feels like to be the odd one out. Maybe you should go and interact with chinese americans to know what it feels like to be a minority.
NO CHILD WANTS TO BE DIFFERENT AND EVERYONE WANTS TO FIT IN . it is natural and human emotions to feel this.imo i feel like you lack empathy, what goes around comes around.
And it wasn't one chinese who cried it was many hence there was an article on it.
i dont see having race preference in dating is racist. like when we take race out of the equation, we tend to find someone who we are able to relate with, someone who is similar/familiar. this itself can be broken into different aspects such as interests and goals in life (which are not race-based), and traditions and customs (which are dependent by our race). as someone who doesn’t really prioritises my own cultural traditions as an important aspect in life, this could explain why im open to dating people of various races. however, if such traditions, or any other race-influenced aspects of life, are of priority for others, they may tend to date within their own race since that’s what they find similarity and familiarity in.
I agree. Just because someone usually finds say Chinese people most attractive doesn’t mean that they think other races are below Chinese people.
15:14 this is the most double standard thing ive ever heard of. ridiculous how noone called her out on that BS. how can you sit there and justify discrimination and denounce racism when discrimination is basically a precondition of racism?!
How is it that my dating race preference a racist? I’m chinese and can’t choose to only want and would only date chinese? Is it a crime to reject someone of the opposite race? Just because of one person from the opposite race reject you and you dating pool insanely decreased!? Thats really a power of one person.
18:01, it could be the parent of the child who are mandarin speaker and they can’t converse in English. Therefore they would prefer a chinese tutor so that they can communicate with, such as requirement/instruction/feedbacks rather than been racist.
18:32 the older people might have trouble expressing themselves therefore rather speak to a chinese for better communication. I mean how else would they know that you understand mandarin and could converse with you if you don’t let them know?
Here's an idea. People should hire and associate with whoever they like. I prefer it if an employer states their racial preference. Do you really want to work at place where they dislike your race? Do you want to date someone that would prefer you were a different race? I don't understand what these people are asking for.
@Daniel Lim I can understand that, but I'm just saying, if someone has a racial bias, I hope they tell me before I go work with them
Honestly I thought that this conversation they're having is really zeroing on just that ONE factor; which is race. I would think that people will pull in other factors first before even thinking about race when considering a partner. The way they tunneled in on the preference based on race is really close minded.
For example, there numerous factors like religion, age, education, occupation, etc to consider. If I am a staunch Christian Chinese, I would *generally* not be looking to date a Muslim (of any race) as in Singapore, the overwhelming majority of Muslims ARE Malays. Is that being racist?! Similarly, a Malay Muslim would not be looking for a Catholic or a Hindu Indian partner.
Perhaps because of beliefs, ease of transition into another culture etc. And like Sofeah said, it makes it easier for both sides cause language might be an issue.
They should have included other factors and less "everything is linked to race" when truly, it is not.
We hope this conversation encourages everyone to talk about race with openness and empathy. Let us know your thoughts below!
This video made me cry 😢 😢 😢
I mean this video is so interesting bc a member of this discussion says how Chinese people are the model citizen and yet I, as a singaporean, who lives overseas in a white majority country has never experienced this. The racial discrimination Chinese people face, especially during covid, in white majority countries is unbelievable and I wonder how my perspectives of racism would be if I had grown up in Singapore my whole life.
Racism happens because we don't understand each other enough, we don't empathy with each other enough, sometimes not knowing our heritage enough, regardless of majorities or minorities. It's a blessing to live in such a multicultural and diverse country that is rarely seen in the world. Learn from each other strengths and continue to prosper as a stronger nation. Don't let racism divides instead.
@@sofiatangbtemuhammadttstud8225 totally agree w you
As a Chinese, I have seen and regarded Malay singers sing English songs better than Chinese because of their pronunciation/slang or whatsoever (which I'm guessing arises from Malay language). Malays also generally have sharp, handsome, pretty facial features. Am I now being racist for regarding Malays well? The above 2 points are made in comparison with Chinese (for example my spoken English is heavily Chinese-accented and I have blunt features), am I being racist to Chinsse? Even if I am racist, I do think Chinese agree and accept and do not take offense.
By the way, i don't see a problem with elderly patients not wanting to speak to her. They just want to speak to doctors who can communicate in Mandarin. And it is normal to assume Malays dont usually speak Chinese. If today a patient meets an American doctor and refuses to speak to him, I do not think the American would regard it is racist.
"Am I now being racist for regarding Malays well?" Honestly? No, provided the premise is well-established. First of all, you must understand that the term 'Malay' in the modern Singapore context is very plastic. As in, Malay culture has traditionally been more fluid than most people of other races give credit for.
The plasticity of Malay culture allows for anyone of ethnic Austronesian, as well as non-Austronesian heritage to identify as & thus, marry into the Malay gene pool. Thus, the bewildering facial features that is atypical of pure Malay (including it's various Austronesian alias).
Myself? An individual of mixed heritage but conveniently ascribed as being 'Malay' due to my supposedly not looking Chinese enough (despite my having East Asian facial features) & definitely not Indian-esque. Not keen to brag here but to highlight my point, people have described me as a handsome guy which I attribute it to more than just my Malay heritage.
"I like your nose. Slim. Sharp. With a well-defined bridge." I do have Arab & Pakistani decent. "You do look like a Chinese guy at a glance but damn you're built & buff." No mystery there. My face has Chinese features but my light tan complexion & stately built is from my Austronesian & Middle-Eastern heritage. East Asians generally tend to be of a more slender, graceful built. Malays? Absolutely built like German tiger tanks.
So, am I Malay? By logic, no. And it is precisely because I embody so many traits from various ethnicities that my features aren't well, as you put it "blunt." Still, there is one thing about Malays in general that you might have noticed. And that is the innate style exhubed in the way we carry ourselves. Most Malay men are just naturals when it comes to 'tangkap handsome' (charming others) & sweet-talk, while Malay women exhube a very sweet, feminine demeanor. That is purely cultural. Malay culture gravitates heavily towards soft, sensitive & artistic self-expression. From orating to singing. Thus, the chock-full of Malay singers from start to end of the Singapore Idol seasons (whom all Singaporeans, not just Malays voted for).
Lastly, I just wanted to say that you need not compare your ethnic Chinese features with ours or anyone, for that matter. Why? Beauty knows no race. Genetics decide who gets to look good & who gets to look average. There are also pretty & handsome Chinese people too. So, being Chinese is not a limiting factor. Of course, when someone comes from a mixed heritage their genetic makeup is far more diverse. Thus, their odds of looking more exotic & more attractive stacks higher. The Malays you see aren't even pure Malays, anymore.
For the lady who works in the hospital: I think it would be racist if she said I'm Malay and I speak Chinese and the patients wouldn't want to speak to her. In this case she explained she could speak Chinese and they happily talked after. While racism definitely exists, language rather than race seems to be the issue here.
I am extremely paranoid and would definitely prefer not to communicate in any language I am not comfortable with in a hospital for fear of miscommunication.
I think more empathy for the elderly patients would be nice.
There's quite a bit of group think going on here where assumptions were made, went on unchallenged and then became the premise of the conversation. For example, older people are more likely to be racist, the prevalence of Chinese privilege and how that is the norm, etc. I think we need more diversity in this conversation, not so much racial diversity but rather thought diversity. I have a feeling, if we were to include older adults in this conversation, some of our own parents even, the discussion would have taken on a fairly different tone. We don't have to agree with each others opinions and ideals but that doesn't mean we should discount their points of view and experiences just because they aren't as enlightened/ aware as the "woke" generation.
There seems to be a need to correct people's behaviors. Case in point, where the final question was asked, what have you(the interviewees) learnt from this discussion, I believe this to be a wrap-up, self reflective question. Instead of looking inward, the whole segment was just the interviewees (with the borderline exception of John) preaching and telling people how they should go about perceiving their world, their friends, their acquaintances. This I know, is not how to win the hearts and minds of the populace. For an individual to look outward and say that society has this, this and this number of flaws is indicative that we are just here to rant and perhaps are not in the ideal frame of mind to be problem-solving yet. We should look at our society, understand it and accept it in its current state and then have conversations about solutions and how we can phase them in.
This "post-racial-utopia", how is it defined? Is it a world where we don't see the differences between our races? If so, then I can almost conclusively say that I want no part in it. There is diversity in this world, there are going to be differences and people are going to recognize it. It is the same diversity that makes our world such a place of intrigue with such interesting peoples and cultures. Just as there is beauty in diversity there will also be clashing ideas, thoughts and beliefs, there is no one side without the other. It's how we handle diversity that makes the difference rather than pointing at each other, accusing one side of stereotypes or the other side of being the dominant privileged majority. There is diversity, we live with it and embrace it as you will. As an Los Angeleno observer, this is something I recognize that Singapore has done exceptionally well.
It's in our nature to group and classify things into categories driven by our need to quickly identify and gain familiarity when thrown into a new environment or meeting someone for the first time. I don't think that this is an instinct one can completely eradicate at the individual level, what more at the societal level? There will be issues in which we will need to educate the general public on with rules and laws but more likely, there will be times and places where we will need to learn to be patient, tolerate and educate where appropriate. We cannot just wish away racism by calling people out in the heat of the moment, it is a recurring issue that virtually has no end but needs to be constantly addressed to keep things at socially acceptable/sustainable levels.
I'm sure we've all made mistakes one way or another and its likely that the next generation and the generation after will make racially incorrect mistakes too, it's all part of our growing up. As a society we must understand that there will be mistakes along the way but the mark of a mature, truly progressive society is that when needed, society has the capacity to address, correct and where only absolutely necessary, punish these mistakes. However, I believe that we must first learn to be tolerant and more forgiving as a people. It would be ideal that as a citizenry, we have enough social bandwidth to allow for our younger ones or those who are less socially adept to be able to make these growing-up mistakes (within reason) and at the same time, be able to afford the opportunity to correct their socially unacceptable behavior. This could take years for the individual but it must be met with both patience and the will and drive to apply a correction. Given the right environmental and social conditions we can help shorten this learning curve eh? Takes a village to raise a child but it is absolutely vital. Tough love as they call it.
To me, a resilient society is not one that has absolute-zero racism while at the same time is completely incapable of handling one incident without society tripping over itself and causing more division. Rather, a resilient society is one that can weather a blow or two and is able to self-correct.
Very well said.
Well said👍
very nicely said
I get the impression that the younger generation are very brainwashed by western media into thinking that no racism means taking all the race diversity away and everyone just act more westernised. You are right that this conversation is very one-sided.
i disagree just because racism exist everywhere doesn’t EXCUSE one from being a racist if my friends are racist i will stand up for myself and call them up on their bullshit or just stop talking to them. to me a resilient society is seeing an individual as a person instead of the colour of thier skin. if someone judges another person just based on the colour of thier skin they are a racist, as not everyone from the race all act the same way and have the same personality
I think this is a very poor conversation. The last question, is it better to say brown or malay person? In a race utopia, this question is invalid because there should be no negative connotations to either terms. Unfortunately the conversation delved into who identifies with what, but the question is how would a stranger identify you? Theres nothing wrong with pointing out that you’re a minority. In some subset of a group you will always be a minority. The shortest, the tallest..whats wrong with being a minority in such instance? It is only really an issue if you use race to describe a negative attribute to a person, because likely race isnt the factor for that negative attributr i.e lazy
hi just want to say that i respect your opinion and know where you're coming from, but you need to understand that society has already created this stigma. Hence you saying there should be no negative connotations to the terms I feel personally you aren't entirely trying to put yourself in the minority's position. Great that you think of it this way but not everyone has that same mindset like you. I disagree that this is a poor conversation because speaking about racism is not easy especially in Singapore. I think it's great that at least our generation of youth and young adults are having these open conversations to start creating awareness. It's not a poor conversation, its better than none :)
not true if you are a minority MOST of the time in wherever room u go to u will stand out cuz of the colour of your skin hence when someone says “indian/ malay” person it is a reminder that you will never truly fit into society as you will always stand out and you are different from the majority of the people in this room
and how come when a room filled with chinese they give the basic courtesy to call the person with thier name but if is a minority they just say “ malay / indian guy “
@@llyyddiiiaaa are you saying you're offended by the term minority or brown? How? Since when did society say those words were negative? I'm from UK and I've never heard those words used as slurs or have negative connotation to them.
@@spots- doesnt it depend on the circumstance. People point out someone in a way someone will know who they mean. If someon is a minority it's easy to describe them that way especially if the person you are talking to doesn know that persons name. I dunno..it really depends on the situation.
The only point that I feel is contentious is the preference in race for partners, being termed racist. Could someone not just have a preference for a certain outlook, however superficial it is?
John Smith i think its mostly the difference of culture and religion that made people have a certain preference
Dating is by definition discriminatory. Hiring someone is by definition discriminatory, we hired the best person for the job, we try our best to look purely at merits, skillset, attitude and personality of the person. However dating has an attractiveness component to it which differs from person to person, is there a case for racism? Sure, our environment and culture shape what we view as attractive which favours the majority race
This brings us back to very tribal ancestral instincts. Our ancestral DNA was programmed to date within the tribe
There are Gen Z who think gay people are TERFs. Some of this gen are so oblivious to their own bigotry.
@@BeliaLove how are we defining discrimination? Because when I date black men (I'm white) I dont consider myself to be discriminating white people.
I think I lost my eyeballs, I rolled my eyes too many times. Also that Indian girl went one whole big round just to self praise. Also, talking about ironic. How many fucking times did they refer to Chinese / Chinese boy & when Thomas pointed out oh you’d rather people refer to yall as brown & they just went with it lmfaoooo yeah OK maybe get a more intelligent group to hold a proper convo, they were being utterly dismissive look at the body language of the Indian girl when Thomas was speaking & she was so quick to shoot him down, John was probably holding back so much. Horrible “discussion” just because you’re a “minority” doesn’t make everything you say valid or true.
Is this supposed to be a discussion or an echo chamber?
@@John_Smith_86 Seems like the latter
echo chamber
@@John_Smith_86 read the news
@@John_Smith_86 yeah just like the rest of the comments from you lot
@@John_Smith_86 wow big words (by the standards of the majority here). You must be a genius among your kind.
Mainstream doesn’t mean right.
Regarding Sofeah's situation where elderly patients do not want to speak to her, I find that there's nothing wrong with it. The elderly chinese patient most likely wants to speak to someone who can speak Chinese because they are more comfortable with the Chinese language, and based on Sofeah's dark skin complexion, it would be normal/intuitive to assume that she is not chinese and would therefore be unable to speak chinese. The patients have nothing against your race but rather they are looking for someone who can best assist them in their need.
agree. if they were really racist, they wouldn't speak to her even when she spoke in mandarin.
And she claims people shoot her down by saying she’s “too sensitive” I can’t stop rolling my eyes. She’s projecting SO MUCH.
A lot of people make excuses for the elderly because they come from a different time. It's ok for the elderly to only receive care from people of their own race, it's ok for the elderly to only hire people from their own race, it's ok for the elderly to only rent out properties to certain races because that's what's comfortable to them, that's their personal preferences. The problem with this is it simply continues the cycle of pushing out others who are not like you, and it gives the younger generation a bad example. A little child who saw such behavior might form the opinion that oh only chinese health care workers are competent.
Dewi Mulyanidewi she is talking about elderly in a hospital. Who are vulnerable & need assistance. I’m sure being a racist is the last thing on their minds. Please don’t take things out of context just to push your narrative.
@@cryingstereos are you sure? Human are a complex species. Just because the elderly are weak and frail, doesnt mean they cant project their disgust feeling to other.
As a minority myself (I'm Eurasian), this "discussion" feels more like a echochamber to me lmaoo. Anyways, this video is a perfect example of what I think is wrong with how race is being approached nowadays. People like to think that racism has to have some sort of power dynamic, when it really doesn't. Racism is me thinking im superior to somebody just because of my race and anybody can do that. At one point during this video, one of the girls there said that racism is "discrimination with power", which clearly proves my point in how biased conversations on race has become. I've personally met many chinese people who have also had similar experiences when they date outside their own race with their in laws, and have also had many sterotypes and racist jokes thrown at them (like how minorities make fun of them for "looking the same", having smaller eyes as if its a bad thing etc.) She implies that these experiences and racism towards chinese people is apparently less serious just because they are a majority race and they are apparently "holding more power." Wtf? Also she is ironically painting minorities as defenseless or weak by the statement, which is no different from racism. We can defend ourselves thanks.
Also, Chinese people are not trying to be white lol. The fact that you guys say that minorities are trying to be chinese (which we are not), and the chinese people are trying to be white speaks of an inferiority complex more than anything.
And Thomas, as a fellow Eurasian, pls stop calling yourself "white" or identifying as "ang moh" or "white." Seeing Eurasians do this is just embarrassing. It makes it look like we are insecure of us being seen as asians and that we should continue to seek for the validation of whites to have an identity.
Plus I find Fauzi annoying lol
Obviously didn't have a Eurasian upbringing and either didn't know that his Eurasian not white or Chinese or his mom refused to identify him under us!!! I am Eurasian of two European countries and some Chinese from my late Indonesian Chinese grandma from my dad's side but didn't have that upbringing!!! Totally Eurasian guy and upbringing from both sides!!!!
Wow I’m actually quite worried for Singapore’s future... quality of conversations is really low.
I have the same thought too
Luckily, Singapore is about 5 years behind the USA on going down this path of intersectional critical race theory. We can see it destroy them before it destroys us, and adjust accordingly.
you just want the video to say “ there is no racism in sg 😑 “ and a pro-chinese video because this video is highlighting the racism that exist in sg you are just upset 😑
Fair points. Appreciate the brave sharing from all parties.
Don't agree with the SJW talking points like racism = discrimination + power, because that's a sleight of hand to make the claim that the minority can't be racist. It's not true, and minorities shouldn't believe this lie. Your words can hurt a person even if the recipient is from the majority race. It especially hurts people in the middle-ground (who may be insensitive or ignorant), but who fundamentally are more than willing to be your friend/ally. So don't buy that bullshit - your words have power. Take responsibility for it. Don't be the very thing you abhor.
What isn't discussed enough is that there is racism in two forms: (i) racism as insensitivity and ignorance (which happens just naturally because we don't naturally put ourselves in each other's shoes - but note the fair point - is hurtful nonetheless), and (ii) racism in the form of hatefulness (usually more due to the racist's own disenfranchisement/circumstances and so they lash out to the Other group - think along the lines of KKK type racism).
When you call someone 'racist', it has connotations of type (ii), rather than type (i). Simple test - just imagine being called a 'racist'. How does it make you feel? For most people, it feels like shit. If you're in your own academic bubble or have done a little mental gymnastics, you might say 'it's okay what, all of us are racist'. But be more human lah. Instinctively what's your response. If every day a stranger came up to you and say 'eh you are racist' - would you still feel hunky dory? Simple fact is that it feels like you are being called a horrible person. That's why it's a stupid question to be asking 'is XX behaviour racist?' And you can see it in the divided responses. People can't quite see the wrongness in, say, liking a people of a certain race - they don't see anything hateful about it, and therefore they go 'no what, not racist'. When really what you probably mean to ask is 'is it ignorant and potentially hurtful?' Try asking that question and I'm sure you have a lot of people change their answers to a 'yeah lah, of course it sucks to be rejected on that basis (but it is my freedom to do so)'. Point is, it is ingrained in us to recognise 'racism' as something abhorrent and unacceptable, but 'ignorance' can be tolerated in some cases. And in this case, people are entitled to be ignorant, especially in matters of the heart. It's their own freedom to be stupid if they want to, to like people of a certain race if they want to. You should have no say in it. Even if it hurts people. And you definitely have no right to call them horrible people for it. So learn to make the distinction and you might get a better conversation going.
I know it sucks to be born a minority and have to deal with it, your life is on a higher difficulty setting. But do recognise the fact that most people are just ignorant and bodoh, rather than hateful or malicious. If it gets tiring, then see if you can disconnect and take a break. Once you've recharged, try again? No choice. If you can, you're so much stronger than most people. If cannot, it's not your fault either. And if it's any consolation, there are more people willing to be open/learn once they get to know you, and you have a chance to educate them, than there are those who just out to hurt you and bring you down.
A Low These are great points and by far, the best comment I’ve across here. I agree with you 100%. It is not helpful to label an ignorant person a “racist” even if you believe deep down that he is because that will only serve to alienate him further and potentially cause greater pushback (as we have seen in the past couple of years). For the ignorant/insensitive group, it is easier to either (1) ignore or (2) engage with them civilly and not resort to name-calling.
As much as I believe race activists have their hearts in the right place, it would be more helpful for them to be realistic in their discourse.
I think you made some good points about the two diff types of racism but 1) why do minorities have to suffer because people are ignorant? Not sure if you are a minority, but if you are not, this comes across as q insensitive I think? And 2) why would we not have a right to call people who hurt other people horrible?? Like you can ignorant but you shouldn't hurt people what
@@brendayeong89 for 1) Minorities don't, and they shouldn't suffer because people are ignorant. No one should. That's why I say it sucks that minorities have to go through life with a higher difficulty setting. I don't want it either, but that is the way it is. All we can think about is what we can do about it. We don't have a magic wand, so the only way to fix and mitigate these imperfections is by education - which leads us to point 2) people don't learn from being called horrible. Calling them horrible will make things worse. If you observe race relations in other countries, especially the US and the UK, you will see that it creates even more divide, and even more racism. It shifts from just plain 'ignorance' where there is a chance for learning, to people having a bad experience, and that leads them to turning into the type (ii) group I mentioned earlier - people being resentful and hateful. On the other hand, showing people how they are being unknowingly hurtful would at least give them a chance to realise that they have unknowingly caused pain (most people don't want to cause pain to others) - hopefully, they still have the chance to apologise to the person they caused hurt to, and if not, at least they can be careful not do it to the next person. And that's how we must all work together for race relations to improve.
@@alui5362 Hm ok I think I understand your pov better now; thanks for explaining!
Amazing points bruh 👍🏼👍🏼
This is a difficult conversation to have with friends, let alone publish online. Definitely an increasingly unforgiving platform. I don't agree with a few of the points in the video (not a fan of using large, vague ideological frameworks to view the issue and the term 'racism' has become so polysemic with new connotations every other day it is hard to keep up) and I've seen some harsh comments made in the comments section, but valuable discussions are never a walk in the park and ultimately it made me rethink about the issue and it broadened my empathy so i guess the video has served its purpose (for me la at least lol) . Thanks for the work put into this!
Keep scrolling for more essays 😝
I think its a well balanced discussion. The lady of Punjabi descent put up a well balanced argument whereas I feel that the other 2 ladies were either being too biased or slightly radical. If everything is taken at its 'technical term' then everyone is either racist at at least one point in their lives or another. It is also naive to say that it is racist to assume that he or she would not know if she is able to blend into another's family (when it comes to dating). The information regarding specific cultures (Muslim cultures etc) are overwhelmingly abundant. To dive into an interracial relationship without thinking about cultural implications would be fundamentally irresponsible to both parties. So if being responsible is racist, I'd rather be racist.
I can't relate much to the racist part since i'm part of the majority race.
But..
The backhanded compliments part reminds me of how some people view individuals with disabilities
"I feel inspired by your achievement." is the most common "compliment" I get.
People speaking in their native language is not racist. My family is Chinese but don't speak Mandarin. At her workplace, my mum has to constantly deal with colleagues that constantly rattle off in Mandarin despite them knowing she does not speak Mandarin. Is this racism? If in my story my mum was a minority instead, would it automatically make it a case of racism? People are too quick to judge and label people as racist. It's this same kind of dangerous rhetoric that is used by racists and applied to minorities (cases of white Americans attacking non-whites for speaking their native language in public).
if a group off people starts to speak in mandarin and leave one person out of the convo cuz they dont speak mandarin it shows how ride they are. i have been in cases when people will ignore me and start speaking in mandarin i just take it as a sign that they dont want to be my friend hence would distant myself away form them cuz they dont want to speak to me
dude how is it racist that i have a racial preference when it comes to dating??? ok maybe if friends, i might deem it as racist but dating???? if i have a preference for tall guys, am i discriminating those who are short?? yes, we might potentially have the same chemistry, but dude it’s my preference whether or not i want my partner to be tall/short/bespectacled/fair/tan/old/young/malay/indian/chinese/eurasian. just cause race is the factor, you deem it as racist? that’s some crap i’m hearing
then might as well call me homophobic cause i don’t have woman as my sexual preference
Well, then its really sad to think that you could only fall in love or be in love with someone within your "preferences".
How about this, let me turn around the question and ask you why isnt ur preference a short , ugly, brownface, african.. etc..
Like having a preference itself induces to having not prefer something more than the other ( in the context of racial / dating preferences )
I mean why don't just admit that your preferences are much more ideal because they look a certain way as oppose to someone who doesn't fit your criteria because you naturally assume that you will be more likely to be in love with your ideal "type" when truth of the matter is you wont be able to prove this ideal preference would be your partner someday. If only u dealt deeper, realise that perhaps racism has its roots in you so deep you can't even tell if it exists.
Albus Severus I really appreciate your response to my opinion and to each of their own.
It’s true, sometimes it’s sad that I want (not could) to fall in love with people within my preferences. I have met people who are younger than me, shorter than me, etc and I must say, we do have great chemistry but as superficial as it sounds, I just don’t want.
I am not denying that people of my preference are ideal, it’s definitely true. Why would I want to date someone who is totally my type with the same chemistry as compared to someone who is not my type but still have the same chemistry?
Preferences are all about human feelings, there is no right or wrong. You can’t force a person to like everything! Then the word ‘preference’ would not exist at all. They are feelings. For example, I want a cat as a pet because it’s my preference. You can’t force me to open up my mind to buy a dog or a fish or a hamster as a pet. Yes, any other animal might satisfy my wants of having a pet, but it’s just not what I want.
But some may argue that if hiring someone based on race is racist, dating someone based on race is racist too. Hiring someone is based on objective factors like skills and experiences, not subjective factors like feelings.
Know the difference and don’t assume that everything is racist just because the word ‘race’ is in the question.
@@yoweygirl The left eats itself
@@albusseverus5996 Imagine asking a gay person why isn't your preference someone of the opposite gender? Why don't you try dating the opposite gender to find out? If you have tried dating the opposite gender and it didn't work out, maybe you haven't found the right person of the opposite gender. Why do you assume that you are only attracted to the same gender?
You gotta choose your panel more carefully
??? Chinese aren't trying to be white
These people watch too much American entertainment. They need to decolonize their minds
@Prem Varun
1. Not all Chinese people have Western names
2. Not all Chinese date Western men
3. Stop generalising everybody based on a handful of people please.
Regarding Sofeah comments on old chinese patients deterring her due to their assumption of she being unable to speak chinese. I feel maybe the old chinese patients were just afraid that there is a language barrier between them and her and also it will require a lot more effort in conversing for them since most of them aint english speaking. They aren’t being racist.
Having a racial preference in dating shouldn’t be immediately called racist. First, it’s your own choice on what you think is attractive. Secondly there are reasons why ppl wouldn’t date a certain race like food or culture. I had a friend who would never date Malay because she loves eating pork which is obv not halal. My Malay mother in law wouldn’t have had dated a chinese guy because she only eats Malay food and nothing else. Then there are conservative ppl who would only marry ppl of the same race just for the sake to conserve the “pure” bloodline, which I really don’t know what to think of it.
But there are also ppl who wouldn’t date ppl of a certain race because of the pre conceived notion that they had which may not be true or not apply to the majority of that race. This reason behind that preference is then racist. Everyone has their own preference and immediately calling them racist is just wrong.
Daniel Lim no you’re not. It’s very normal because it’s respect to the religion. My boyfriend said that he didn’t want me to convert for the sake of marriage but to really learn and accept the religion before converting. I personally also think it’s not right to convert just for the sake of marriage. Then again there are couples that do that and it’s their choice, as Long as they talked it out with each other and looked through their options
I might be late to reply now but I grew up in a mixed culture household and there are some that still practices their own religion while respecting the other. So for me it opens up that I’m currently also dating someone of the opposite race and religion. But it’s not wrong, most don’t convert because forcing is wrong. But it’s true having preference doesn’t rlly make you racist in some sort
So being a minority automatically makes you the arbiter of this debate? Where's the discussion here if you're going to label the majority race as 'part of the problem' automatically without hearing the nuances?
This is dangerous rabbit hole, yes sure we always need to remind ourselves ourselves of the past(racial riots) and learn from the mistakes made by our forefathers. We should celebrate our diversity, our history and our strengths. However this whole privilege ideology only exist if you dwell in it. When i was young i would play soccer with my Malay friends, there was only 2 of us whom are Chinese and the rest Malays. Sure occasionally we would get the different treatment, sometimes it would be the speak only Malay to each other the whole game or the team selection where my Chinese peer would get picked last. So now did i complain Malay privilege in this instance? No, we all became good friends, even close brothers til this day and my Kawans even encouraged us picking up several lingo along the way. Also the other Chinese friend of ours would get picked last because he wasn't really a good player to begin with Haha
This is dangerous now because if we claim Chinese privilege exist then you are perpetuating that the Minorities in Singapore are inferior or at least that they have to feel that way.
I feel like people only think that racism comes only in overt forms of slurs, threats, and other such derogatory markers. But racism has other much more covert forms that it takes, like racial bias.
To Deesha's point: racial biases in dating IS racist, because your PERSONAL preferences for a partner should not be extrapolated onto an entire race. These biases are instilled in us by the society we live in, and are usually unconscious, which I think makes some people uncomfortable because they don't personally feel like they're making racist decisions. These biases need to be examined and unlearned to overcome, which is difficult especially when living in a majority Chinese society like Singapore.
A lot of Chinese people getting offended here, which shows why this conversation is important. They feel like they are listening to a 'ranting session' by the minorities, but isn't that the point? I am Chinese and I have never faced racism and discrimination in Singapore (outside of Singapore, yes), so every opportunity I get to listen to how minorities feel in Singapore, I welcome it with the readiness to get educated about things that might be my blindspot.
For the topic on whether having a racial preference when dating is racist or not, speaking from my own POV, I have had crushes on Malay girls, dated Indian girls and about to marry a Chinese girl. If I had reject my feelings for the Malay and Indian girls just because they don’t look like me, to me, that would have been racist. If a relationship with a non-Chinese cannot progress beyond cultural and religion differences, that would be unfortunate, not racist.
As Chinese i actually agree with what some people say like what Kiran have to say, she make pretty accurate statements. But definitely not deesha she really have something against chinese and like to use the victim card. Especially when she talk about men marrying chinese girls to boost social status, wow im speechless. I can take everyone's opinion in the video but not hers
WeiWen WWE I understand it can be uncomfortable to hear the truth, but Dessha has put up a big mirror for people to examine their unconscious bias. If they don’t like what is staring back at them, then perhaps it is time to examine their privileges and biases.
@@shawnlim8001 you may think what she is saying is the truth but sadly (or not), I don't. Like what Kiran said and some things that others said actually said, but its just so easy for people like Deesha to make sweeping statements like how indian guys use chinese girls to boost their social status. Or like how she dont want to be associated by her race and not being called "indian girl" (I personally dont think calling someone indian or any other race is a degrading term but maybe she thinks that way so she don't want to be called indian girl).
@@shawnlim8001 if she herself think so lowly of her own race and imply that Chinese is a more superior race over hers, how is she able to then "make her race better" (I think all races are good to start with so yeah)
@@weiwenwwe2066 I see your point and can respect it, but all I am saying people often discount accounts of lived experience, like racism. We need to listen more and discount them, less.
this was such an interesting and thought provoking video and i think it’s rly cool to have more videos about this kind of less talked about topics :)
12:16 "when i smile i would make my eyes as small as (possible )" "to make me as chinese as possible"
Woah pot calling the cattle black right here. Says that making stereotypical remarks is racist but goes on to say that SMH
She goes on to say that she realises she was in the wrong and that should not be the way things are. But it highlights the fact that there are many young minority who somehoe feel the need to deny their race to fit in.
She was trying to insert an example here and she's already said that she knows that's wrong?
Koh jun kai well she said she’s wrong for trying to be more chinese and denying her Malay roots. But she didn’t say she’s wrong for making that reference to the stereotypical joke of Chinese have small eyes.
Faraway Mountains ? Looked at the way she laughed right after that. Stop trying to defend this bunch of people who have added nothing to the conversation but insinuate that all Chinese are racist.
0:29 can I just say all Indians r so pretty like no cap their features r so pretty and their skin tone is also very very pretty I don’t understand why people say “for an Indian” cmon man
Edit : Sadge that she just called the German chinese dude racist when his argument was quite logical. There isn’t really room for discussion her. Just a NO. from her.
Racism goes both ways whether you are minority or majority.
Somehow, I feel they are pettifogging many issues.
Having a dating preference is racist? I think you will have to distinctly separate out HATE and PREFERENCE.
If I like to eat western more than chinese food, it doesnt mean I hate chinese food. It just means I am indifferent to chinese food. There is no element of hate here.
This is a personalised and individual choice. Dont we have the liberty to choose what we prefer? Where is the freedom?
By the way, when I say this, I hold the same view that everyone can have their racial preferences when dating. No double standard here.
love your pov! :)
Finally, a sensible comment on racism vs. dating/finding a partner👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
not true dating preferences do have underlying prejudices and stereotypes. Asian american men are the least desired in the US and many asian men there complain girls are racist as many girls don’t want to date them. as they precive asian guys as not manly ( which is stereotyping ) and race is something which one is just born with and can’t change unlike weight hence many would feel it’s unfair for being discriminated just because of their colour of their skin which they didn’t even choose
@@spots- so you are going to force someone to like you if they don't?
@@ShermanLim i am not forcing anyone but there are underlying reasons for preferences
12:16 Racist AF
But doesn’t affect the lived experience so I guess that’s fine 🙂
Not only racist, really dumb as well. She basically admitted to having an inferiority complex towards chinese people and says that making her eyes smaller (wtf lol) would make her fit in better with chinese people
It's important to differentiate between a preference vs a fetish.
Having a preference isn't racist. Take my white husband. He has dated Asian girls and found their features to be attractive to him. But he has dated white girls too because they had a connection and have a great personality. He doesn't exclusively dated only Asian girls; that would fall under the fetishism.
Fetishism is only going after a certain race and wanting the perceived notion of that race. E.g wanting to date only Chinese girls because they are submissive. Wanting to date an Indian girl as they make a great homemaker. All they want is that stereotype, ignoring the fact that the person has feelings, political leanings and personality. Now that is definitely not okay and borderline racist too.
It takes a while to differentiate between the attraction being a genuine one vs a fetish one. It's not something that can simply be determined from a sentence.
I disagree with Deesha on "indian men who use chinese women to increase their privilege". I'm in my mid 20's and i have only been with chinese girls. Major reason is I've had very few tamil friends(female) as being in a class/cohort where most of the people are chinese. I'm an introvert and hence all of my partners were friends beforehand.
I don't think i received any privilege what so ever. I've had trouble renting, getting a job, not being considered a singaporean and i'm here to steal the girls with my high paying job through CECA. Having said that, I do understand her perspective or what she has gone through. I faced alot of racism, mostly from Malay dudes though, and empathise with her. But i certainly don't want to be seen as someone who wants to increase my privilege because statements like this tend to become generalized.
P.S. I would totally date Deesha provided that we are compatible.
KING Silva It is quite contradicting cos that statement of hers implied that indian men are with Chinese women for the privilege, not becos of genuine chemistry. And then goes ahead to say it’s wrong to have racial preferences when dating. She don’t even know how racist and ironic she sounds.
I disagree with deesha as well. basically those indian man she is referring to just basically have a preference for chinese girls. nothing to do with increasing their privileges.
@@izumiyuichan she's a low key karen when it comes to this particular issue.
Yes disagree with that point. I don't get any privilege from dating a Chinese girl.
Karim Khan PREACH
When it comes to dating, I think religion and culture might be the main determinant, not race.
not really in cosmopolitan sg religion and culture not that important at all many don’t like someone of darker skin tone people think dark = ugly & fair = beautiful/ handsome
@@spots- thats the same literally everywhere.
I am part of the minority race ( non-CMI race ) and I take Chinese as my Mother Tongue. Whenever I received good results for chinese exams or any piece of homework that I submitted seemed too good for my standard ( since apparently I'm a non-chinese😔), my MT teacher would accuse me of using Google translator or whatever methods deemed possible but in reality, I just made use of the phrases and vocabulary that I had learnt in the past T-T. Nearly all of my MT teachers would pay close attention to me because they think that I don't understand anything that was being taught in class. I understand their rationale but I have been learning chinese for over a decade now ( please treat me normally like my other classmates) and I'm not that bad okay😭,I get at least a B for my chinese in secondary school. Adding on to that, my classmates will never speak to me in chinese and purposely speak chinese in front of me,to their friends;-; I don't find this racist but I find it insulting because there is a racial barrier separating my actual ability VS what is the expected outcome for me and most people tend to look at the latter.
As a brown minority race female who migrated from Singapore to Canada 6 years ago, I feel much more included and represented in the community in my new country. Canada is truly diverse and inclusive, much more than Singapore which only talks more about inclusion than actually practising it. The prejudice and racism I felt in 25 years of living in SG actually made me move out. And I'm much happier now.
i feel that racism can happen both ways between minority groups, majority group towards minority groups and minority towards majority.
but most of the time it is against minorities
deesha has pretty extreme views/points for some questions but hey im not one to say anyth
We need xiaxue
ya cos we chinese better dont say anything because whatever we say anything it might be deemed as us being ignorant. smh
frOstZonE wow using the race card. how great
@@Bryaneng27 dealing with people like deesha, even if you speak to someone else in Chinese and it doesn't concern her, she also not happy. Speaking of race card, she plays the race card way too many times
@@Bryaneng27 I'm a chinese standing together with the minorities against the fight against racism and I do not discredit their living experiences. However, some minorities are just so sensitive to the point whereby everything is being seen as racism. I have friends from the minority group who feel that some issues shouldn't be even considered as a racist act, yet there are people like Deesha who screams racism at every single thing. Even someone's preference is seen as being racist wtheck. This opens up a conversation but it also certainly dilute the word racism. And I'm all with the movement but hey, dont come tell me it's ok for the minorities to be racist and that's ok because they have no power.
Why is it racist if you do not want to date someone because of their race? I do not know why. FOR ME personally, I would not feel that a person is racist just because they do not want to date someone that is not of their race. I feel like what they said is a little bit bs. Some of my Malay friends like girls who are Chinese and it is their preferred race to date. Everyone has their own choice to make, if you want to date Chinese girls of course you would date Chinese girls. You would not go and date Malay, Indian or American girls if you do not like them. I really do not understand why having a racial preference for dating is racist. Some Malay girls in my school prefer to date Thai guys or White guys. You would not want to date someone that you do not like and who does not have good chemistry with you. It is just like how you would date a prettier woman rather than an ugly woman and how you would date a fitter woman rather than a fatter woman. People have different preferences. Just like how girls like dating taller guys. From the context of this video, it also means that if a girl has a preference for dating guys just because they are taller, it means that the girl is unreasonable, bad and selfish. Also at 7:00 when the girl said that "they do not want us also." It is they do not want US or is it they do not want YOU????????
I do not know how THAT IS EVEN RACIST. It is literally just a RACIAL preference, not being racist to the person. Even though you have a racial preference for dating Chinese girls it does not mean that you won't date anybody who is not Chinese. This episode was a failure in my opinion. Literally SHAKE MY HEAD. 🤦♂Please let me know if I am stupid or racist. Thanks.
Cannot continue watching this episode.
Fr, imo it’s 100% valid to dismiss someone (in terms of dating) for ANY reason, dumb or not. My body my choice, I don’t have to explain my reasons to anybody. Bro I don’t even have to talk to someone for me to be like nah I don’t like their vibe, yk what I mean? Dating is a personal choice, and attraction is a natural human thing. if a guy says they don’t like me for my race, I’m not entitled to them. I don’t have the right to call them out on it.
5:16 ok but what if his preference is making tang yuan and praying to guan yin mah? Idk mans I nvr heard of another race would do that. I think it’s so sad that she brought him down like that because I think his reasoning is 100% valid. People would only date a certain race due to many reasons, but would still be friends with all races. It has less to do with being racist and more to do with preferences. Perhaps what he means is that if he meets a girl of another race who is like ethnically chinese(or brought up Chinese), he would date them. And that’s not very common. As someone who used to only date chinese boys but started dating malay boys afterwards, the main difference I had between then and now is I was just not attracted to non-Chinese people. Where now I am attracted to them and thus would date them. It’s like being a straight girl, you wouldn’t be attracted to other girls. But does that make you sexist against females? No!
It is quite clear that this conversation is lacking - and in some ways, potentially quite divisive. I find it more prudent to remove the video, but that’s a decision Zula will have to take. Regardless, I hope the folks at Zula take in the comments in a constructive manner, and not negatively.
Racism (wow heavy word, tbh) or rather racial relations is a difficult topic. Really difficult. Which is why I hope that any platforms / content producers that touch on this topic really put a lot of effort into making sure it’s a constructive conversation. A well moderated conversation. Where assumptions and broad blanket statements by the participants, regardless minority or majority, are not left unchallenged. Where there aren’t one or two louder voices that will drown out everyone else’s. Where we post more specific questions - rather than just broad questions where the parameters aren’t even clear. That’s dangerous.
It’s not good enough to just invite participants of different races, give them a platform, and let them voice whatever. It’s easier from a production perspective, definitely. But let’s be more thoughtful about this.
These people are obsessed with power, and this is the way they intend to gain it. By playing victim. If you doubt they are obsessed with power, read about critical race theory. Their entire religion (I won't call it "study") is about power relationships and hierarchy, mixed in with racial supremacist assumptions. Lucky for us, Americans have a 5 year head start on this, so it will destroy them before it destroys us. We will be able to see it coming and react appropriately
you just want a video that is pro-chinese and don’t want to accept the fact that racism exist in singapore . maybe in your next life you can be a minority in whatever country then only you will truly understand the pain
@@spots- unintelligent assumptions (maybe on purpose) + completely misrepresenting what I said..
@@MaxJoseph999 personally i felt the video was fair and not biased as there were guys who said “not racist “ to the questions too but i have noticed that every time when minority says they are hurt and feel it’s unfair the majority 70% chinese always cry and complain “ minority are too overly sensitive “ yet when one person even calls them a racist chinese start crying “ this person so mean call me a racist “ if your stamenet is hurting someone then why can’t they just accept they are racist so that they can improve. if one does not accept what they said or did was racist then how to improve ?? don’t even want to take the first step 😐 then how ?
every time there is a video on racism in singapore comments always claim the “minority are too sensitive and blame the minority “ just like this comments section
these people in the comments section will only be happy if there was a video that says “ there is NO racism in sg”
every time when someone says there is racism in sg 70% chinese in sg always get angry 😑 like u
if you don’t even accept racism exist in sg then how can improve ?????
@@MaxJoseph999 but i mean it, you will only truly understand the struggles and pain if you yourself are a minority, being a minority in whatever country means living life on difficult mode, you won’t get it till u yourself live thorough it
being a minority one has no choice but to be emotionally stronger if you are weak you can drown. we don’t have the privilege to cry easily as life is way harder for us and we have to live through it, face all the prejudices, stereotypes, racism , discrimination and yet still be labeled as “sensitive “ if we complain about them.
you don’t understand how it feels to walk into a room and knowing you will never fit in cuz of the colour of your skin 😔which i don’t even choose. being punished for the colour of your skin which you didn’t even choose 🥺life is harder if you are brown anywhere on earth unfortunately 😢
you will never understand the pain
why the whole world hates brown even i don’t know what did i ever do to be hated upon i didn’t even choose the colour of my skin.
you have no choice but to be emotionally stronger to live the difficult life god has thrown to u as a minority. you will never understand if you don’t live through it
Dear Zula,
Thank you for talking about it. This is how change comes, when we talk about it. In a time where people are choosing division over unity, this is very refreshing.
Love,
Fellow Human :)
Cant wait for xiaxue's response for this video
"I used to do some freelance tuition, like give tuition freelance". Well said!
Where do you find these people??? HAHAHAHA
cmon fam, dont play yourself, dont act like yall knw what yall are talking about, should have just scrapped this entire episode
Yall are hypocrites, please rewatch the entire episode and see how entitled some of yall feel, what are you guys even on about privilege? what privilege?? dont play yourself, where do you find your material?
Hi girl at 5:01, that assumption is not racist, but it is biase. As long as you don't put your assumptions into practice and it hurts someone(and their entire race) then it's not racist. You are entitled to your assumptions as much as I am, and as long as our behavior does not reflect our assumptions, then it's not racist. Assumptions can be for the sake of being sensitive. If we deem assumptions as racism then what that Chinese Australian chef accused the Malaysian radio DJ hosts of being racists would've been valid.
On top of judging one line/comment made by one person, I hope people are also looking at the conversation topic as a whole and understanding the bigger message. In the end, no one can force their views on you and you are free to think what you want and have your own opinions, but we should realise that experiences of minorities *are* different from that of the majority. And that difference in experience stems from the fact that they are the minority. That in itself is a problem we should confront and try to solve as much as possible.
It would be a shame to just focus on just one small segment of this 20 min episode -- we'd completely miss the point of it.
Thank you to the Zula team and the participants for having this conversation and trying to navigate a very complicated topic! There was no way you'd be able to do it perfectly, so I hope you don't feel disheartened by the negative responses. Keep on keeping on :))
14:35 okay so you want to be included all the time. But it's cool if y'all exclude us. Got it! Thanks :)
They wouldn't have any standards if not for double standards
but majority of the time chinese people speak in mandarin and exclude the rest rarely the opposite happens in real life
@@spots- coz its a game of numbers... i used to be the only chinese working in an ALL malay department and they only converse in Malay.
@@Swankdor but in Singapore MOST of the time minorities will be excluded since Chinese are the majority 😤😤😤simple maths also don’t know 😒
@@spots- i know simple maths.. duh.. i m just saying the hypocrisy and double standard from that fat punjabi woman.
It is okay to make decisions based on stereotypes when it is too difficult/exhausting to better understand a person individually.
It is wrong when reasonable effort can help you better understand a person for who he/she is.
This is why it I agree that we shouldn’t look at race in recruitment because the effort it takes to better understand a person beyond race is reasonable.
And that is why it is okay for car insurance to be priced based on age and gender stereotypes because it is too difficult to understand a person’s tendency for accidents individually.
When it comes to dating, (besides having a natural attraction to a certain racial look), narrowing your search parameters to a certain race is often not racist because it is often too difficult/exhausting to consider all candidates out there. We simply don’t have the emotional capacity to get to know so many people individually.
Hence it is simply for practical reasons of preserving my emotional capacity to use parameters of race, nationality and education etc when it comes to dating.
So yes it might be disadvantageous for certain races when it comes to dating, but I wouldn’t call it racist.
What do y’all think of my argument?😅
A simple truth is that "God has created mankind from the same progeny in order that they may associate in good fellowship, exercise love toward each other and live together in unity and brotherhood." ~ Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Baha'i Faith
Ultimately i say it all boils down to education
Disappointing comments. I'll keep it short. Rule number 1 of problem solving is to identify it is a problem in the first place. Shut up and listen. Sit down and ask questions and have a conversation. Not saying everything they said is right, but to dismiss their opinions and/or find flaws in their presentation just to get back at them is not solving anything.
Well said!
Dating different race is not just about dating a different race. It's also about integrating both religions together. I came from a mixed race/religion relationship of many years.
They said they're against racism, but then they're still racist towards Chinese throughout the whole video assuming Chinese are "better" and "superior"
The thing is, there's only a thin line between assumptions and racism. And a lot of things they discussed in the video was just assumptions, racism is when you actually discriminate someone and treat them unfair.
But i assume white people are more open, i assume asian parents are more strict, I assume Chinese is more calculative when it comes to money, i assume malays are more carefree and easygoing. So does that make me racist? No.
It's assumptions, it's like my own impression towards them. Just like how the world thinks Asians are good at maths, how's that racism? It's impression
Also the preference thing in certain races tutor or dating partners, it's preference, chill, not racism.
80% of the statements in this video i just don't agree with
At around 5:15, she says we shouldnt assume such and such. I think those are reasonable assumptions to make though, in terms of the culture one is likely to have, etc, until the contrary is proven. So GENERALLY, it is not racist to have a preference to date someone of a certain race including your own
I bet none of them have lived overseas. You want to expand your knowledge and experience of racism? Get out of Singapore and you'll learn fast.
I'm not discounting what was discussed however it would be more beneficial to the discussion if there were speakers who have lived and grew up overseas like I have. The content will be more substantial and in depth.
As a person who lived overseas before, i agree
i lived in the US before and an as a singaporean indian i faced more racist comments in sg compared to when I lived in the US and i feel like US is more of my home and feel more accepted then i ever have in singapore.
I am Indian and I completely disagree with some of the statements made by the "minority" grp. An Indian can definitely be racist to a Chinese if they wanted to and I have seen it, I don't understand why these people say that the Chinese people will not go through racism when racism can happen to ANYONE and EVERYONE, it's that simple. it's insane. like when the Malay girl already had the preconceived notion that for her to fit into the Chinese grp she had to make her eyes look small. You can be offended by the fact that people say that Indian smell like curry but not the fact the Chinese people have small eyes? what? And also for the Indian lady to say that Chinese people are trying to become white, therefore trying to achieve the "next level" so she being an Indian already has a subservient attitude that she comes before the Chinese and the Chinese come before the ang mos. Then also the dating preferences had nothing to do with racism like omg as a human being I have personal preferences and its none of your business to tell me who I should date every single human have a preference whether you like it or not so stop bring racism into to it. It goes both way guys stop trying to bring this westernised politics bullshit into Singapore pls it won't' work. It very obvious that these people watched a lot of American politics hence all these notions.
Omg ikr the dating topic made me annoyed. There are so many factors linked to dating and marriage and they just zoomed in on race??? Like? It is not black and white. People have preferences and yes, it might be for superficial, lazy, comfort, etc reasons but so??? Why is it RACIST?! I just do not understand.
@Karim Khan i don't care if people around me like me or not whatever their race they are. Racism is racism it can happen to anyone. I love my dusky skin tone and I will never change it for anyone. I don't need a Chinese person to validate for me nor do I go to them for validation. You should love yourself first before anyone else can and it seems that you have taken my comment under the wrong light.
clearly you are an indian who likes chinese girls lol 😂
All these people typing big essays in the comments why are you so offended by the video...everyone's experience with racism is different but down right denying casual racism doesn't exist in SG is plain ignorance
I my mind
1 asian are gold rathian
2 white are silver rathalos
3 black are broze kushala daora
For food racing are
Milk, vanila n honey, chocolate
I've seen too many "Deesha"s around and honestly they do nothing but play the victim card. We need more people like Kiran. Honestly i think she make the most sense in this video. If Deesha sees this maybe you will play the victim card again and call me out for bullying?
@Karim Khan your people? Oh you mean human beings? Are you not human so that you can say something like this? Got it, understood. You don't belong to the human race, I get it.
@Karim Khan sure, if making such statements are the *only* things that makes you happy
@Karim Khan sure haha, you can say whatever you want on the internet. If you lack attention in real life and want to seek attention here, sadly i cant give it to you please go somewhere else instead. I hope you find it soon, all the best
@Karim Khan have fun
While it is true that there is racism everywhere within the world. It's not like in Singapore, Chinese aren't subjected to racism either. I've heard before Malays or Indians saying to their friends, "eh, you need money ah? Just ask the Chinese kid la." or "Aiya, during the test just copy xxx (Chinese name) paper confirm can pass." While these are stereotypes but stereotyping is the first step into casual racism.
The current issue is pretty much similar to what is happening within the United States of America. People are disregarding the White's safety simply because they deem them as people who are racists or supporting white supremacy. People completely forget that when you ostracize any race you become a racist as well. It's not so much about pointing out who are the ones who are racist but rather finding out how do we integrate together as a community. Remove the negative connotation towards each race (by your teaching) because no Kids will ever point to any race and say certain things. Because it all comes from the parent's teaching or the friends the kid is hanging out with.
lmao majority of any country on earth will always be more racist compared to the minorities this is just FACTS! nothing to do with being chinese or not but being part of majority/minority. It is facts that MAJORITY of racist people in sg are chinese cuz they are the majority hence it is natural. but I am against all forms of racism against anyone. But you cant deny minorities face far more racism compared to majority. Just ask any minority person almost all have a personal story of racism but less chinese would face racial discrimination as they are the majority. You cant even handle one person being racist to u imagine being A MINORITY and facing stereotypes, discrimination, racism and prejudices on a much more occasional basis. and you cant even complain about it as people will claim they are just "sensitive" smh!
and if someone's words or actions are racist obviously u will inform them so that they can learn and grow from it. if not even allowed to mention that some actions or words are racist then how to improve ?
good conversations for a start, but not very critically stimulating.
I feel that racism is inherently present within everyone. I do not think that blatantly expressing that you are a minority and you are subjugated by Chinese dominance makes you less of a racist than the people who treat u this way. It is about acceptance that different races and fundamentally different people think and function differently, rather than looking for a platform to justify how people treat u this way. The same two majority races people can have different ways they react about other races, and the same two minorities can react differently with the way they have been treated. People who say they are not racist and are victims of racial profiling to me are hypocrites, because they are so focused on racial discrimination they become racist against themselves and towards other races. They are not able to view the world without their "racial lens". I have met Indians and malays who joke about Chinese stereotypes and I have seen Chinese people who joke about malay and Indian stereotypes, and they are some of the nicest people I have ever met. We are all people living in this country, hustling to improve our lives and to make ends meet. I only heard you guys speak for 20 plus mins and I'm so put off by what u guys have said. However I admit that this is my biased opinion towards u and there is a certain level of tolerance that you deserve. The same as all the people that has "mistreated" you, you have to been more tolerant and respect that political correctness is not the only way to live our lives.
people who say “ everyone are racist “ are the racist themselves. i am against racist jokes in general based on stereotypes against anyone. if someone made racist jokes about me i would stop being friends with them
@@spots- As I mentioned, racism is inherently present within everyone, which includes myself. I am sure you are the perfect non-racist human being in your ideal landscape, with your supreme morality where everything pretty much exists in a binary, and you are the epitome of justice. I am sure that no one will be talking to you about racist jokes, because there should be plenty of materials for other things to be said based on your perfect character. Oh, and I remembered to hang my badge this time, so please take note thanks!
@@kittythecat7820 so you are admitting you are a racist 🤭 i disagree that “ everyone is inherently racist “ i work in a hospital and communicate with many elderly population and i 100% believe not everyone is racist, majority of them are nice and kind chinese elderly patients,
the ones who are racist are truly in the minority
i have met many people from all walks of life and i truly believe “ not everyone is racist “
you say everyone is racist ? clearly shows more about yourself, go out and talk and get to know people for who they are and stop judging them for the colour of their skin
nobody in the world chose the colour of their skin hence don’t deserve to be punished for it
@@spots- I feel that inside your ivory tower, you are still not getting the point that I am trying to convey. The petty victories that you think you have achieved, where you fail to acknowledge your mistakes and ignorance as I mentioned are meaningless in the real world. Working in a hospital and communicating with 'many' elderly folks does not give you the entitlement to proclaim that who ticks your checklist in your 'racist' notebook. I am sure that based on your character and your extreme binary definition of racism and self-righteous, we definitely do need to take note that politically correctness is still a rampant trend in our society. Burying our problems and saying self-righteous quotes do not mean shit in the real world, and unfortunately, I do not understand your 'nobody in the world chose the colour of their skin hence don’t deserve to be punished for it' comment, because only a self-righteous being like yourself is talking about people being punished for the color of their skin, which is not what the original conversation is about. Throwing in random self-righteous quotes does not add value to your argument, but instead reveals the brittleness of your rebute.
@@kittythecat7820 personally i do not feel "everyone is inherently racist" maybe agree to disagree if you think otherwise. I have had patients who refused to get treated by me or family members say racist nasty stuff about me but MOST of the patients are NOT like that and i personally disagree that everyone is racist, as most people do not mean any harm or malicious intent to other races.
honestly it just shows that u r a racist. Maybe agree to disagree ?
Sorry but I just can't take the Deesha girl seriously, we need xiaxue to comment on her. She reminds me of the Indian girl from Millennials of Singapore.
1) At timestamp 2:51, if anyone is a minority in a group setting, it is always their responsibility to spend more effort to integrate with the majority. For example, if I start a new job in a new company, It would likely to be expected of me to integrate with my new company's or department's culture; the entire company is not going to change for me unless I am their new boss. That is a given. I could alternatively not integrate and be left as an outcast.
2) For the question of "Racial preferences in choosing a partner". In Singapore, religion and race are closely related. And with the major religions in Singapore, many of them have dietary restrictions, fashion limitations, and the requirement of participating in religious activities. Even if the partner is not religious, doesn't imply that the partner's family is not. Conflicts arising from religion would be the worst form of conflict because it cannot be resolved. Adhering to an entirely new moral and value system would be daunting for any person. All these will be part of the multivariate considerations of choosing a partner for marriage. Race is likely a heuristic in guessing a another person's religion in Singapore.
3) In Singapore the concept of an individual's score in the national examinations, the schools that the individual attends are widely used heuristics in determining the work ethic and the competency of the individual. Children in Singapore are conditioned to employ these heuristics throughout their education in their formative years. By the time a child in Singapore completes PSLE, this heuristic would be firmly ingrained into their minds. Another point to note is that a vast majority of the top schools by PSLE cut off in Singapore have European names or Chinese names. The only reason why stereotypes and generalizations are formed is because they are fast and have a reasonable level of accuracy.
4) Crime rates, drug abuse and prison population of certain races are also over represented in Singapore. These information are going to play a part in employers' decision making when hiring. Of course employers are going to use the generalization described in point (3).
5) Self deprecation is a common humor technique. If an individual has some issues with the jokes, the recommendation to that individual is to not make them. Others who are more confident of themselves can self deprecate without adverse effect on their psyche. Self deprecating jokes are an entirely personal issue, unless jokes on races are taboo. Comedians do that for a living. People do laugh at these jokes because they have anecdotal experiences with the issues in the jokes.
6) If a negative stereotype of a certain race is generally true, then the community leaders should be trying to address these issues instead of labeling the discussion of these negative stereotypes to be racism.
7) Did the issues in the video create such a huge disadvantage to the minorities in Singapore that it prevents them from succeeding in life in Singapore? Is this video trying to externalize individual responsibility to the community? Is the video encouraging minorities to attribute setbacks in life to racism instead of individual responsibility?
being a minority in any country means you will generally face more discrimination compared to the majority of the country, minorities are much more easily vulnerable to getting bullied ( cuz they are darker ) face housing and employment issues ( with mandarin only jobs ) hence minorities can be disadvantaged in being successful in life. if one has been bullied since young cuz they are darker it affect thier self-esteem, self-confidence which can continue in till adulthood. and minorities face housing issues as well. don’t be blur to the disadvantage minorities face. but i don’t think it has anything to do with chinese being a majority in any country means you are privileged compared to a minority. if you are part of a minority in any country in this world your life will be harder it is facts.
South Asians get it the worst from both South East Asians And East Asians
5:30 This argument has a fallacy. If my choices are not really my choices and my free will is not my free will, because my free will and choices are defined by my biases and culture ; then no one in the world has any choice nor free will. The same also can be said about the girl and everyone on the panel. Then who can then tell me what truly are my choices? Or them theirs? It becomes a philosophical circular argument that ultimately leads to nowhere.
What she is suggesting is that no one can truly make their own choices unless they have perfect knowledge of every argument, worldview and philosophy. This is not only impractical but also impossible. Choices in itself is shaped by bias and culture. To say that one has to attain perfect knowledge before making a choice is akin to saying one never has a choice.
The entire video is full of flaws my bro.
This was a very good discussion but I felt that this talk was pointless as most people here already have a set mindset, including the minorities who are subconsciously racist as well. I honestly think that having racial preferences for your partner is not racist. Does that mean that me, a straight woman, having preference for men is me being sexist? I am tall so I prefer dating tall men, does that mean that I have something against short men? Sure, it is racist if you are talking about friends, but as a lifelong partner, then I think no. Also at 12:16 , "when I smiled, I would make my eyes as small as possible'. Is this not racist? She is also stereotyping the Chinese here, in this case. But see, it was subconscious. So now that things like this happens, does that mean that the Chinese should accept and feel fine with that remark just cause outside of this conversation, whatever they do to us doesnt really change our lived experience? No. In other words, to summarise, does Kiran mean to say that when the minorities make such remarks or do certain acts against the majority, it is fine and never racist just because we are the majority? Then I think that this is a very wrong thing to say. Throughout this entire video, I felt that the majority here are being shot down whenever they voice out their opinion. The video started off well, until Deesha had that reply for Thomas's racial preference and I feel that after that point, the majority are just giving politically right answers. Also, Deesha was kinda stereotyping with the fact that the Chinese are trying to be White. I don't think so? Maybe just that handful she met but she should not generalise. This itself is also racist. I really enjoy having open discussions but this one was rather bad. If minorities continue to have this mindset then I think it will only make us more divided. But other than these few points, I think the rest makes sense, which is what the majority should reflect on.
I'm a millenial and blackface wasnt racist to us. That's Gen Z people who get offended over it and cancelled loads of comedians for using blackface. It doesnt make sense to us tbh.
@Niko Lodeon hun, I'm guessing you werent around when these comedy shows came out. Black people were in these shows. Look up the sketches. Look up Big Narstie when he invited Matt Lucassss on for an interview because he loved the show. It was only a couple years ago people started saying it was an issue. Doesnt that tell you something? All that time noone made a fuss. And comparing asian attacks after covid to a comedy show which ripped characters from every race is not racism. One is violence specifically targeted towards a race whereas the other is comedy that wasnt about ripping an actual race but about playing characters. Can I make a suggestion. Go out on the street and take a poll. Ask people their opinions. Ask a variety of ages and races in diff cities and country areas. Ask them if they liked Little Britain and Bo Selecta, Father Ted etc and ask them how they viewed the show and if they ever found it genuinely offensive or thought the creators had racist motive.
@Niko Lodeon Interestingly they did a poll recently and found that early Gen Z were good in regards to issues on homophobia and racism etc but that in recent years they actually come out as more racist and homophobic than millenials. They dont realise this of course but the anti-white rhetoric and calling gay people TERFs is extremely racist an homophobic and simply regressive. We feel Gen Z has set us back about 50 years race-wise. We had made so much progress. It's really sad to see relationships break down all due to race-baiting.
@Niko Lodeon no. I'm actually talking about UK. Im from UK and the study was done in UK. And where is SG? And the only one being insecure are those offended by blackface.
@Niko Lodeon it's about a global issue that effects everyone. Woke culture is a cancer. Not to mention this is an idea that manifested online and not organically offline in those countries because noone cared until social media came along and transported another countries issue to us.
@Niko Lodeon your commenting on a video about wokeism. As for being against meritocracy that is something the woke do. They want to remove standardised testing, they are for affirmative action which discriminates asians the most and gives blacks a queue jump into university. Woke culture is trying to dismantle systems from the ground up. We're in the middle of a cultural revolution.
Preference is not racism. Jesus Christ. Some of the statements in this video really disgust me.
@Niko Lodeon Wtf are you talking about. The person is referring to dating preference. And you’re comparing it to racial assault? Seriously? Get your head out your ass.
not y’all writing whole ESSAYS in the comments....😐😐
I seriously feel that many of us have a change of attitude towards white people. 20 years ago I believe white people are the model or ideal race we aspired towards due to their high income capabilities and high living standards. These days we are on par or even better than them. We no longer have such aspirations to be like white people. The Trump presidency also eroded that thought to be like white people as we saw how flawed their lifestyle and their ideals of democracy appalled us looking at the way they treated the pandemic.
Karim Khan yes a Chinese guy from Singapore. What’s wrong with being Chinese?
Karim Khan this is just alias, who says my real name is Nicholas?
@Karim Khan lol, i don't have to prove anything to anyone, just stop being naive about online names in future ok?
Deesha is the same as those black Americans in the US who expect us to kneel down in front of her to apologise.
Like hey, what's happening here and in the USA is so different and now she wants to apply their standards here
@Karim Khan coming from you? Previously your account got banned and now you made a new one and the first person you think about is me. I feel so privileged, thanks alot. And being triggered with someone of a certain race means I hate the own race? Interesting logic right there. Interesting to see how woke mobs like you think
Great video! Thank you for using your platform to open up this kind of discussions. Indeed, it can be difficult to start them and to get people to participate without being defensive. Hope people learn from this that a discussion is to listen with intent to understand before responding, rather than listen to respond.
wow thank you for posting this video and creating a conversation and awareness! Our generation and society needs this!!
Not sure if its just me, but I feel that Deesha telling Thomas that he's got it is racist
Wtf is "Indian man use chinese woman to increase privilege?" What a bunch of bull
She racist against her own race lol