163 lb ft of torque is from the gas motor alone. Toyota doesn’t produce combined torque figures with gas motor, plus electric motors. Total system torque output is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 225 lb ft combined.
I saw close to 300 lb/ft elsewhere. Whatever the Rav4 is, that's going to be close to the CX 50 number. Mazda will probably wring a little more power out of it, though.
Ah, that's right. Toyota leaves electric motor output a mystery. I suspected the 163 might be the ICE alone. This whole concept is great news. If I can get 0-60 in the low to mid-7 second range while getting mid 30's or better in real world driving, I'll be a happy driver. I have test driven the CX-5 and 50, but the NA 2.5 was too weak for my tastes, so I quickly moved over to the turbos. (Looking to replace my '14 Forester XT). I'd trade off a little zip of my XT for the much better gas mileage, skipping the premium gas, and lowering my carbon footprint a bit. The Mazdas drive really nicely, although they lack the cargo capacity of the RAV. But if you don't need all those cubic feet, the Mazda has a much nicer cockpit and driving experience. I drove a RAV4 Hybrid XLE, and by comparison, it felt pretty spartan. Adequate, but spartan. And that's a mid-level trim. I drove that because there was no other trim level on the lot to test drive, so at least I could get a feel for the drivetrain, view out, and driving dynamics. Toyota does a lot of stupid things (as do other dealers) like adding a bunch of fluffy options "at the port" (door edge guards, blah, blah) that can add up to an extra 1k. These are things that the dealership could easily have installed later, on demand by the purchaser. Annoying, especially when they are hard enough to find already in the trim level and in a color you're willing to live with. (Toyota must have gotten a bargain on their gray paint.)
@@JWFasbro, what are you talking about? The Rav4 with the same powertrain does 0-60 in the low 7 seconds range. That’s plenty enough power for this class.
Mazda builds better looking, better driving & more premium feeling vehicles than Toyota does at the same price point these day, so YES a Toyota hybrid system in a Mazda CX-50 would be a big step up from buying/driving a hybrid "appliance" RAV4. Best of both worlds & a WIN-WIN with the Mazda.
Great review! I think that one key difference between 2025 RAV4 and Mazda CX-50 hybrids is that the RAV4 will have a more powerful 5th. Generation hybrid power train compared with the 4th. Generation hybrid in the CX-50.
Thank you! You’re right, the current gen Rav4 is the oldest vehicle in the current Toyota lineup (I think) and is due for a refresh soon. Toyota has been doing an amazing job lately with all their refreshes so I am very curious to see what they will do with the new Rav4 when they finally update it.
I suspect you're correct about the 2025 RAV4. Hell, barring production line changeover issues, I can't imagine any reason for Toyota NOT rolling out a sparkling all-new 5th generation hybrid powered RAV4 for 2025/6. Hell, considering the Tundra/Sequoia engine fiasco, they can use the adoring press coverage a new RAV4 should get them.
Thank goodness they finally have a hybrid!! Glad it is the Toyota version. I just wish they would update the styling. I like it but it needs a refresh.
It sounds like Mazda finally is going in the right direction by using an E-CVT which is the same reliable and smooth operating approach that Toyota uses in its hybrids. The problem with other plug-in hybrids of Mazda was that they kept a traditional automatic transmission with all of its power losses and added clunky clutches to connect, disconnect the engine and electric motor, causing shifting delays and a loss of smoothness and efficiency. Now, if a plug-in version, hopefully more available and less costly than the plug-in Rav4, was made available, that would be perfection.
I've been shopping hard in this segment and not yet made the purchase. The advantage for the RAV 4 is the interior space for both passengers and cargo. The Mazda interior appointments and handling are head and shoulders above the RAV4. I'm hoping someone forgot to combine the ICE torque with the EV motor torque and came up with the "163 lb-ft". I'll have to stay tuned on that. It will be interesting to see what Mazda does to "brake feel" in light of the regenerative functionality. We test drove a RAV4 hybrid XLE and the interior was "fine", but felt very utilitarian, bordering on "rental car". You can't get real leather in a RAV4 as far as I could tell. Even the Limited has the synthetic "Softex" or whatever they call it, which is allegedly not very breathable and makes you sweat. We also drove the CX-5 and 50, in turbo form. The drive was fine, but wasn't excited about the 25 mpg combined. And the seats seem a little short on thigh support, so a longer test drive would be in order. But, they drive very nicely, dare I say, "car like" and a pretty decent car at that. (My car that isn't an SUV is a BRZ, and I'm trying to find a suitable replacement for my Forester XT). If I get my wish list, the hybrid will have acceleration somewhere a lot better than the NA Mazda 2.5, and get something in the mid-30's for mpg in the real world. This is exciting. Meanwhile, over at Subaru, the head of their drivetrain department, Rip Van Winkle, is dreaming about the next minute tweak he can make to the 2.5 Boxer engine for 2026 (the '25 Forester is already on lots with the same old wheezy 2.5, with tiny tweaks in HP and torque, but not increasing either). Dealing with Toyota is not fun, so more competition will be nice. Kind of odd that they'd sell Mazda the hybrid drivetrain when they can't seem to keep their own pipeline satisfied. The new '25 Camry has the Gen 5 hybrid drivetrain (more powerful and efficient electric motors), but apparently, that may not make it to the '25 RAV4 hybrids. (It's not in the Crown Signia, that is Gen 4.) Great job with the review and comparison on pricing with the RAV4 at the various trim levels.
Thanks Scott! Yes, someone in the comments here pointed out that Toyota doesn't publish the electric motor torque, which I find a bit weird. I have a 2024 Mazda CX5 turbo and I am not getting 25mpg combined, closer to 21. But I live in a dense urban environment with a lot of lights and traffic so that might be partially why. Or maybe I just have a heavy foot. As you said, it drives rather nicely, but it won't handle as well as your BRZ. It's still a crossover, and you do feel some body roll in the corners. That being said, it is still miles better than a RAV4 in terms of interior and driving dynamics. "If I get my wish list, the hybrid will have acceleration somewhere a lot better than the NA Mazda 2.5, and get something in the mid-30's for mpg in the real world." We can make an educated guess here, since the CX50 Hybrid will have the same drivetrain as the Rav4 hybrid, we can assume that the CX50 0-60 numbers will be similar to the Rav4 numbers (not taking into account aerodynamics). The rav4 0-60 times are somewhere in the high 7-seconds range. The non-turbo CX50 does 0-60 in mid 8-seconds range. So the hybrid does accelerate a bit better than the NA 2.5S but not by a lot. I doubt it would even be noticeable. As for the mpg numbers, they promise 38mpg, so I think mid 30s in the real world should be realistic. If you don't need a new vehicle right now, you can also wait for the next gen CX5, which should come out in 2026. It should also have a hybrid variant and rumors are that it's going be Mazda's own in-house designed hybrid system, not Toyotas. But I don't know how you feel about buying first-model year vehicles. The CX90 with the Mazda-designed i6 engine and 9-speed auto had some drivetrain refinement issues when it launched.
@@TorqueandRoll Thanks. I was seeing 0-60 times in the 7.3 sec range for the Toyota hybrids from Car and Driver, and maybe more useable torque for hitting holes. My Forester XT does better than the CX-5 re mpg, but usually I'm trusting the trip computer and hoping they haven't fudged that in a favorable direction. I'm not looking for a SUV to handle like my BRZ, but what is nice about my Forester XT is that it's not unpleasant to take down a windy road or curves. With the Forester XT back then, they put on an upgraded suspension, 1" larger wheels (18"), and bigger brakes in addition to the 250 HP and 258 lb-ft torque. And they kept the weight a little lighter than the Mazda cousins. When I bought the XT, I test drove the base just for grins (thinking if it was "adequate", with the difference I could buy a used BRZ or Miata) but ultimately, the one car to do it all won out. I haven't been disappointed (other than disappointed that Subaru quit offering the Forster XT. I drove an Outback XT and it is nowhere near as engaging.) Keep up the good work on your reviews. I watch a lot of reviews and appreciate your level of detail. Also fun to be able to converse a bit.
Well, they just announced the 2025 CX5 which remains largely unchanged from 2024. However, the next gen CX5 will likely come out in 2026, rumors are that it will have a hybrid version with their own hybrid system.
Was waiting on this for a while now but Mazda has been dragging their feet on electrification (hybrids) so I ended up with a Honda CRV hybrid which is also nice and has Ind rear suspension unlike the CX-50 that still uses torsion beam.
yep, they have a "lane keep assist" feature but it's not the same, it will just nudge your steering wheel slightly if you come to close to one side of the lane. Essentially it will just ping pong you from one side of the lane to the other if you don't intervene :D
163 lb ft of torque is from the gas motor alone. Toyota doesn’t produce combined torque figures with gas motor, plus electric motors. Total system torque output is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 225 lb ft combined.
I saw close to 300 lb/ft elsewhere. Whatever the Rav4 is, that's going to be close to the CX 50 number. Mazda will probably wring a little more power out of it, though.
Ah, that's right. Toyota leaves electric motor output a mystery. I suspected the 163 might be the ICE alone. This whole concept is great news. If I can get 0-60 in the low to mid-7 second range while getting mid 30's or better in real world driving, I'll be a happy driver. I have test driven the CX-5 and 50, but the NA 2.5 was too weak for my tastes, so I quickly moved over to the turbos. (Looking to replace my '14 Forester XT). I'd trade off a little zip of my XT for the much better gas mileage, skipping the premium gas, and lowering my carbon footprint a bit. The Mazdas drive really nicely, although they lack the cargo capacity of the RAV. But if you don't need all those cubic feet, the Mazda has a much nicer cockpit and driving experience. I drove a RAV4 Hybrid XLE, and by comparison, it felt pretty spartan. Adequate, but spartan. And that's a mid-level trim. I drove that because there was no other trim level on the lot to test drive, so at least I could get a feel for the drivetrain, view out, and driving dynamics. Toyota does a lot of stupid things (as do other dealers) like adding a bunch of fluffy options "at the port" (door edge guards, blah, blah) that can add up to an extra 1k. These are things that the dealership could easily have installed later, on demand by the purchaser. Annoying, especially when they are hard enough to find already in the trim level and in a color you're willing to live with. (Toyota must have gotten a bargain on their gray paint.)
With a 3700-lb curb weight. Not a great power to weight ratio.
@@JWFasbro, what are you talking about? The Rav4 with the same powertrain does 0-60 in the low 7 seconds range. That’s plenty enough power for this class.
Mazda builds better looking, better driving & more premium feeling vehicles than Toyota does at the same price point these day, so YES a Toyota hybrid system in a Mazda CX-50 would be a big step up from buying/driving a hybrid "appliance" RAV4. Best of both worlds & a WIN-WIN with the Mazda.
Yup, I agree. Curious to see how Toyota will update the Rav4 since it's old and is due for a refresh soon.
You know what, you've convinced me to buy CX-50 Hybrid!
Great review! I think that one key difference between 2025 RAV4 and Mazda CX-50 hybrids is that the RAV4 will have a more powerful 5th. Generation hybrid power train compared with the 4th. Generation hybrid in the CX-50.
Thank you! You’re right, the current gen Rav4 is the oldest vehicle in the current Toyota lineup (I think) and is due for a refresh soon. Toyota has been doing an amazing job lately with all their refreshes so I am very curious to see what they will do with the new Rav4 when they finally update it.
I suspect you're correct about the 2025 RAV4. Hell, barring production line changeover issues, I can't imagine any reason for Toyota NOT rolling out a sparkling all-new 5th generation hybrid powered RAV4 for 2025/6. Hell, considering the Tundra/Sequoia engine fiasco, they can use the adoring press coverage a new RAV4 should get them.
New hybrid engine in 25/26 = possible new recalls.
Thank goodness they finally have a hybrid!! Glad it is the Toyota version. I just wish they would update the styling. I like it but it needs a refresh.
Dude, no need to update the style of the car for it has become a classic on its own right.
It's perfect.
I just hope that Mazda's drivetrain tweaks smooth away some of the roughness that the Toyota drivetrain exhibits in pursuit of economy uber alles.
I love how all these compares like this
Powerliftgate power driver seat ,heated seats & steering wheel &wipers are available on rav4 SE as options
Options, so higher cost on top of costing more than the CX-50 already.
It sounds like Mazda finally is going in the right direction by using an E-CVT which is the same reliable and smooth operating approach that Toyota uses in its hybrids. The problem with other plug-in hybrids of Mazda was that they kept a traditional automatic transmission with all of its power losses and added clunky clutches to connect, disconnect the engine and electric motor, causing shifting delays and a loss of smoothness and efficiency. Now, if a plug-in version, hopefully more available and less costly than the plug-in Rav4, was made available, that would be perfection.
I've been shopping hard in this segment and not yet made the purchase. The advantage for the RAV 4 is the interior space for both passengers and cargo. The Mazda interior appointments and handling are head and shoulders above the RAV4. I'm hoping someone forgot to combine the ICE torque with the EV motor torque and came up with the "163 lb-ft". I'll have to stay tuned on that. It will be interesting to see what Mazda does to "brake feel" in light of the regenerative functionality. We test drove a RAV4 hybrid XLE and the interior was "fine", but felt very utilitarian, bordering on "rental car". You can't get real leather in a RAV4 as far as I could tell. Even the Limited has the synthetic "Softex" or whatever they call it, which is allegedly not very breathable and makes you sweat. We also drove the CX-5 and 50, in turbo form. The drive was fine, but wasn't excited about the 25 mpg combined. And the seats seem a little short on thigh support, so a longer test drive would be in order. But, they drive very nicely, dare I say, "car like" and a pretty decent car at that. (My car that isn't an SUV is a BRZ, and I'm trying to find a suitable replacement for my Forester XT). If I get my wish list, the hybrid will have acceleration somewhere a lot better than the NA Mazda 2.5, and get something in the mid-30's for mpg in the real world. This is exciting. Meanwhile, over at Subaru, the head of their drivetrain department, Rip Van Winkle, is dreaming about the next minute tweak he can make to the 2.5 Boxer engine for 2026 (the '25 Forester is already on lots with the same old wheezy 2.5, with tiny tweaks in HP and torque, but not increasing either). Dealing with Toyota is not fun, so more competition will be nice. Kind of odd that they'd sell Mazda the hybrid drivetrain when they can't seem to keep their own pipeline satisfied. The new '25 Camry has the Gen 5 hybrid drivetrain (more powerful and efficient electric motors), but apparently, that may not make it to the '25 RAV4 hybrids. (It's not in the Crown Signia, that is Gen 4.) Great job with the review and comparison on pricing with the RAV4 at the various trim levels.
Thanks Scott! Yes, someone in the comments here pointed out that Toyota doesn't publish the electric motor torque, which I find a bit weird.
I have a 2024 Mazda CX5 turbo and I am not getting 25mpg combined, closer to 21. But I live in a dense urban environment with a lot of lights and traffic so that might be partially why. Or maybe I just have a heavy foot. As you said, it drives rather nicely, but it won't handle as well as your BRZ. It's still a crossover, and you do feel some body roll in the corners. That being said, it is still miles better than a RAV4 in terms of interior and driving dynamics.
"If I get my wish list, the hybrid will have acceleration somewhere a lot better than the NA Mazda 2.5, and get something in the mid-30's for mpg in the real world."
We can make an educated guess here, since the CX50 Hybrid will have the same drivetrain as the Rav4 hybrid, we can assume that the CX50 0-60 numbers will be similar to the Rav4 numbers (not taking into account aerodynamics). The rav4 0-60 times are somewhere in the high 7-seconds range. The non-turbo CX50 does 0-60 in mid 8-seconds range. So the hybrid does accelerate a bit better than the NA 2.5S but not by a lot. I doubt it would even be noticeable. As for the mpg numbers, they promise 38mpg, so I think mid 30s in the real world should be realistic.
If you don't need a new vehicle right now, you can also wait for the next gen CX5, which should come out in 2026. It should also have a hybrid variant and rumors are that it's going be Mazda's own in-house designed hybrid system, not Toyotas. But I don't know how you feel about buying first-model year vehicles. The CX90 with the Mazda-designed i6 engine and 9-speed auto had some drivetrain refinement issues when it launched.
@@TorqueandRoll Thanks. I was seeing 0-60 times in the 7.3 sec range for the Toyota hybrids from Car and Driver, and maybe more useable torque for hitting holes. My Forester XT does better than the CX-5 re mpg, but usually I'm trusting the trip computer and hoping they haven't fudged that in a favorable direction. I'm not looking for a SUV to handle like my BRZ, but what is nice about my Forester XT is that it's not unpleasant to take down a windy road or curves. With the Forester XT back then, they put on an upgraded suspension, 1" larger wheels (18"), and bigger brakes in addition to the 250 HP and 258 lb-ft torque. And they kept the weight a little lighter than the Mazda cousins. When I bought the XT, I test drove the base just for grins (thinking if it was "adequate", with the difference I could buy a used BRZ or Miata) but ultimately, the one car to do it all won out. I haven't been disappointed (other than disappointed that Subaru quit offering the Forster XT. I drove an Outback XT and it is nowhere near as engaging.) Keep up the good work on your reviews. I watch a lot of reviews and appreciate your level of detail. Also fun to be able to converse a bit.
Could Mazda do this hybrid system for their cx-5?
Well, they just announced the 2025 CX5 which remains largely unchanged from 2024. However, the next gen CX5 will likely come out in 2026, rumors are that it will have a hybrid version with their own hybrid system.
Yes, I would buy it.
Great choice :)
What sized rims will the Premium have?
I think they should have included Memory Seats in the Premium trim for $37,400.
Was waiting on this for a while now but Mazda has been dragging their feet on electrification (hybrids) so I ended up with a Honda CRV hybrid which is also nice and has Ind rear suspension unlike the CX-50 that still uses torsion beam.
Looks like
cx-50 hybrid still has no lane centering feature😅which I find super important
yep, they have a "lane keep assist" feature but it's not the same, it will just nudge your steering wheel slightly if you come to close to one side of the lane. Essentially it will just ping pong you from one side of the lane to the other if you don't intervene :D
Why on earth would lane centering be "super important"? Before that silly feature became available, were you unable to keep your car in its own lane?
Just buy a 2024 Venza, great styling and exact Mazda specs.
Venza has the same problem as its replacement, the Crown Signia. It looks far more like a tall wagon than an SUV.
I guessed next Supra will use Mazda inline6 and transmission.
I wish Mazda would bring back the Mazda 6 with their new inline6