Babylon 5 | S3E6 - Dust to Dust | Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 9 янв 2022
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_"'Dust to Dust' is what I call one of my "pretty box" episodes. I set down the pretty box in front of you, and you think you know what it is. Then something else entirely jumps out of it at your face. There's more coming here and there. I like pretty boxes...."_
*-J. Michael Straczynski*
One of the most profound episodes in sci fi history, when G'kar becomes something greater.
Agreed!
Nobler and more difficult than he's ever been before
Although Kosh's intervention wasn't malicious, it's a good example of how the Vorlons have manipulated the younger races for countless eons.
It's actually one thing I disliked about this episode. It would have been a larger step for G'Kar if he had had his epiphany on his own.
@@ohauss I'd argue he still does :) Kosh simply presents a counter point to his rage, a change in perspective and shows him to the path. G'kar still has to walk it. He could have chosen to ignore it and finish killing Mollari.
You see the change in him at his trial. He understands the way he must walk and that the first steps begin with him serving that sentence. There's no raging justification of his actions. Only understanding that it must be so. :)
We see the Vorlon agenda in real time with G'kar and Sheridan.
All guidance is manipulation, not all manipulation is guidance.
Yes and no, it's hard for me to explain without entering spoiler territory that exceeds the boundaries of not only this episode, but entire season. I would consider that the initial contact that the Vorlons had with the younger races was born of outright scheming, so much as they see that they are dealing with children and therefore take a form that might be more familiar and less frightening so that they may better interact with them.
What is interesting is that it's been speculated that the Shadows insectoid form is actually a highly advanced encounter suit and like the Vorlons, they too are energy beings; the primary difference is that the Vorlon encounter suits try to minimize the true technological advancement that they possess.
G'Kar's revelation is one of my favorite scenes in the whole run of the show.
"You have a chance, here and now, to chose a different path. The universe does not grant such choices often." just has to be one of the most profound moments in story telling.
This episode is the one where Andreas Katsulas and Walter Koenig begin to take us on the path of two unforgettable character arcs in TV history.
When you think about it, in a way Bester is kind of like Magneto in The X-Men...
Fun fact,the female PSI cop,whom meets Bester at the end,is actually Mr Koenig's wife.
Blasphemy... @@petersvillage7447 Magneto did nothing wrong, Bester did nothing right.
@@this.is.a.username right? Or was he just BIDEN his time....
Bester’s arc doesn’t truly start until his next episode, but you’re right about G’kar.
"They are a dying people. We should let them pass."
"Who? The Narn? Or the Centauri?"
". . . . Yes."
I love how Kosh stated the races were heading towards extinction, and HERE he basically restates that prediction to G'Kar!
"We are obsessed with each other's Death until Death is all we see & Death is all we deserve."
I love how despite what Kosh said before, (about "letting them pass") he clearly cares enough for the younger races that he is willing to go out of his way to TRY to nudge them OFF of the self-destructive path they are on.
Whether or not they will then CHOOSE a different/ better path (or not) is ultimately up to them. But at least Kosh gave them ONE more chance to change.
I think it was portrayed more that the Vorlons had kind of given up on the Narn and hadn't really included them in their plans at all but that they saw in G'Kar a force that could inspire the Narn to be more than that. This is such a transformational moment in the story.
Kosh's character development only becomes clear when you connect -- and contrast -- that statement from the first episode with what he says here. In season one, Kosh often just tiredly spoke the Vorlon party line (later revelations will arguably suggest why he's been left so "defeated"), but in season 2 Sheridan helped rekindle Kosh's idealism. Here Kosh decides that, no, he won't just "let them pass"...
@@matthewcollins4773 Kosh is interesting from a character development standpoint in part because he has so few actual spoken lines. You can see his development based on how he interacts with others, particularly with Sheridan. (I'll avoid saying much more since I don't want to spoil anything)
@@jaredsmith575 very few lines and even fewer that you kind of know what he's actually saying
Theres also a 3rd subtle inference in his comment on the narn and centauri that doesnt really come into play until much latter... and it has nothing to do with the Narn or Centauri. JMSs old foreshadowing within foreshadowing.
The conversation between G’Kar and Kosh is one of the most epic scenes in SciFi ever.
I tear up every time I watch it. Kosh is basically BEGGING G'Kar to chose a different way 💗💔😭😭😭
@@michaelriddick7116 Kosh is being very utilitarian. There is an understanding that most Narn will probably die but that is their only chance at survival. This was the first time he saw a chance to divert them to being a positive force through G'Kar as the rest of G'Kar's thread shows.
Yeah, hard to not see it as manipulative. Gkar is a tool, a possibly useful one, and the Vorlon will use that tool to achieve their ends by pretending to be something they are not.
@@TheBrogmire I would have to expose the basic premise of the show which is discovered over the next 2 seasons so won't be specific, but this is not Unique to the Narn; everyone is a utility of some kind. The goals and the motives of the Shadows compared to the Vorlons are at issue (What do you want vs who are you, which is all I will say.)
They just didn't see the Narn as useful until now.
@@zippydebrain Agreed completely. It's very easy to see the Vorlon as 'good' on first view.
'As I look at you Ambassador Molari I see a great hand reaching out of the stars.
The hand is your hand and I hear sounds, the sound of billions of people calling your name'.
'My followers?'.
'Your victims'.
Once you get past the next episode you'll hit 5 in a row that are Holy Hand Grenades of awesomeness. Once you start this set you are not gonna want to stop.
That exact moment when B5 is suddenly becoming unexpectedly profound!
This episode has my favourite Bester moment.
Garibaldi says he would like to hang Bester up and beat him with a stick and Bester manages to turn it around perfectly, to wind Garibaldi up even more 🤣
"A piñata, huh? So, you think of me as something bright and cheerful full of toys and candy for young children. Thank you! That makes me feel.. much better about our relationship."
"It no longer matters who started it, G'Kar. It only matters who is suffering". This show has so many profound moments, but this is one of my favorites.
Bester only appears in 12 episodes.. unbelievable how large a shadow Walter threw with such little screen time.
And people say game of thrones had twis and turns , but it has nothing on B5.
Another deceptively significant episode! Not to mention there's always the immense satisfaction at ruining Bester's day. Just the _look on his face_ when he walked into Sheridan's office and came face to face with an entire group of Minbari telepaths!
Bester, such a great character and played so fantastically by Walter Koening. Just love to see him in this role, so much not what he was in Star Trek.
@@SirMarshalHaig what ticked Bester off more is because Ivanova pronounces vessel correctly
@@donaldpaluga Snrrk!
JMS coined the term "Wham Episode" where a single episode has a huge impact on the entire show from that point forward. Season 3 is where the Wham episodes start to hit. In one of the first episodes of Season 1, G'Kar said "No one here is exactly what they appear".
Poor Medusa..... Season 3 is really going to do a number on her..... and it's just getting started. (Haha she's going to go watch the next one.... yeah, just try stopping before you get to the end of the season - just change your schedule to all Babylon 5 until you finish the season.)
pfft, season 3, the next season is even bigger. Medusa's head is going to explode.
DID see a flash of a Shadow ship; flying over Londo's head.
Also saw Londo's premonition of his own death, everything was there, but how much will G'Kar grasp?
How much will he understand?
This is an enormous episode for him, and will echo... nope, spoilers. .
In season 1, in a conversation with Sinclair, Londo revealed that the Centauri genome includes an aptitude for prophecy, although it usually is limited to the female of his species. He brought this up while discussing his own recurring dreams of he and G'kar murdering each other. Now, of course Londo is given to exaggeration from time to time, but I believe from what we have seen so far that he does in fact possess the gift of precognition. Maybe a dust variant should be developed to allow the Centauri people to see each other's premonitions?
@@TheDetailsMatter He does say, pretty sure its in the pilot, that he recognized G'Kar as the one from his dream the moment he saw him.
@@zippydebrain
I don’t remember if it was the pilot or an early S1 episode, but Londo did make that statement about G’Kar.
@@SonnyBubba the reason I think it's the pilots is that Rolando tries to kill the car when says something about him still being on his path to Destiny or whatever. Pretty sure that was the pilot
Another classic episode! Absolutely no fat on this one! Everybody gets a moment to show depth and humor. From the big things like Kosh's intervention or G'kar's spiritual transformation to small moments like Bester's quips twisting Garibaldi's insults to compliments and Londo telling Vir that to never let others think of his position as a joke.
On a side note, I can't help but think that Dust was a small nod to the Spice in Frank Herbert's Dune as Spice would allow expansions of consciousness that includes telepathy.
Overall, I'm pleased that you've made it this far, and you'll love going forward with this season in particular!
Jim Norton (Bishop Brennan) smashing it out of the park, with that beautifully measured performance as G'kar's father.
Kosh, you old manipulator....
I do love Jim Norton a lot of the time, and it was his B5 roles - especially this one - that set him in the stars as far as I'm concerned. Though he also did an amazing radio play called Mustard Seed, where he plays somebody profoundly wise and benign...
I had no idea until today that was Bishop "HE DID KICK ME UP THE FECKING ARSE" Brennan!
@@johnsmith8906 He also appears as one of B5's panel of judges and the Markab friend of Dr Franklin.
@@tombaxter6228 Mind....blown!
@@johnsmith8906 He was in Straw Dogs, too. But, long career, lot of roles. He's 84!
Just when you thought G'kar had already finished his transformation from the early season 1 "villain"....
Tugged on my heartstrings to see you tearing up at the 6 minute mark. You got some episodes ahead of you which may require kleenex!
Very enjoyable experiencing your insights into the series as ever.
Understanding is a three edged sword.
Oh, G'Kar indeed has seen Shadow ships in Londo's mind. But it was from Londo's dream of future, since Londo has never seen a Shadow ship himself.
But he has, in the first episode of season 3.
@@bluntman1138 Oh, at the TV transmission. And remembering the same dream.
I Love the "oh ma gawd" reactions when the plot point hits u. When introduced the show to my nephew (yrs ago) his reactions were almost as good as yours.. im really excited for the new B5. Hope everyone else is too.
Excited and terrified in equal measure... equal measure...
Given that the CW is currently unprofitable and they are looking at selling it off, I would say that it is unlikely that the Babylon 5 reboot will actually go anywhere.
@@mmogaddict WB owns CW and as long as WB does not run out of money, they don't need to sell anything. Current status now is, according to JMS himself: the reboot is on track to have the pilot air this year and S1 enter production afterwards. What the budget is gonna be; how many episodes per season is not clear yet.
So far half way into watching this and its breaking u ........god help you for season 4 no spoilers 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Oh Medusa the look on your face around 5:48 when he started to say dissec...
This episode is such a turning point for G'Kar and Londo.
I could see that the seed about Talia that Bester planted really hit you hard. I love how invested you are in the characters. Its clear they are not just characters to you, they are people. Thats a testimony to the excellent writing, phenomenal acting and how much you are drawn into the story.
Pssst. If you go back to the first movie, dust was mentioned as being smuggled. This has been a LONG time coming.
An amazing episode, another stroke of genius from the mind of JMS. This truly is the turning point for G'Kar, his epiphany. What a powerful story!
And G'kar and Londo continue to prove to be the amazing actors they are. I have no idea how they will find people for the reboot that match the quality and strength they gave the entire original series.
A reboot would be a sacrilege. Why the heck.... they should just do a continuation, set after the "20 years after" mark to not mess up continuity, and start with mostly new characters.
This in many ways is the beginning of G'kar's story. I don't think anyone else could have brought G'kar to life the way Andreas Katsulas did and I don't think the character would ever have became what he became if not for the eloquence of Andreas performance. I remember getting the game Primal and playing it just because I heard Andreas voiced a character in it. The man was a legend and the world is lessened by his death but was made richer for his life.
G´kar "no one here is exactly what he appears"
Here's my reaction comment to your reaction video: "Oh wait, this is the dust episode! Oh shit oh shit oh shit...." Completely pivotal.
The show is going to surprise you more and more and before you finish the whole of Babylon 5 you will have laughed and cried, felt happiness and sadness. You will also feel love and loss. This series will send you on a emotional rollercoaster. I loved it and I enjoy your reactions. There are many thought provoking and wonderful episodes to come. I hope I haven't ruined anything for you.
It is so fun to see how emotionally involved you get when you watch this. It does the same thing to me.
This is one of my favorite G'Kar moments in the show (and there are plenty). Andreas Katuslas is transcendent in this role.
A nice example of how even "throwaway" lines can be important later -- sometimes years later. Dust was mentioned in the pilot movie.
The G'Kar revelation scene is incredible. And while the Vorlons manipulated younger races, I think this reveals that Kosh actually cares deeply about those around him.
The episode with the Techno-Mages. When the Mage spoke to London at the end of the episode.
And I hear millions crying your name.
My followers?
Your victims
chilling scene
This is where G'Kar starts to become the warrior-priest we all love
Eating McNuggets and watching a B5 reaction. Life doesn't get any better than this.
5:39 That heartbreaking moment when Medusa realizes Talia was dissected and is now dead. : (
.... or was she? Maybe it was just a provocation, just as Ivanova said.
@@BabylonLurker Exactly. I can't see Bester wasting a resource that's as loyal as New Talia is.
There was a plan to bring her back, it just never came to pass
Talia was given stable telekinesis powers from Ironheart, a phenomonally rare gift. Sorry to put this bluntly, but Psi Corps put her brain through a deli slicer to get at that secret.
@@BogeyTheBear If I recall correctly, JMS said that when old Talia was replaced by new Talia, the gift went with her.
Got to love Bester. Just when you thought he could not get any worse, he does. I am loving your reactions to this series. No spoilers but definitely anticipating future episode reactions.
With the final line of this episode, the series makes it crystal clear for the first time what its ultimate message and ethos will be:
"We are fighting to save one another. And some of us must be sacrificed if all are to be saved."
Oh Medusa you haven’t seen anything yet and I smile at what you are about to experience for the first time
JMS has been taking you for a Sunday drive around the gamma quadrant up until now, speeding at times but generally following the rules of the road. He's about to smash down the gas peddle and go off road - buckle up and hang on, it's going to be one helluva a ride!
It's funny - I used to use the analogy of this show being like being driven in a car by a driver who knows EXACTLY where he's going and making sure you're as engaged and entertained as possible. VERY interesting you thought similarly!
@@tulinfirenze1990 I had thought to use a rollercoaster analogy except with a roller coaster you always see what's in front of you, if you're off-road then all those big bumps can be hidden by the brush and hit you with zero warning. 🙂
G’Kar on the road to Damascus.
I think there there is a brief glimpse of a shadow vessel at 10:12 - it's just barely visible... it's from Londo's dream, which he mentioned in the first episode in this season.
Bester is the best villain, one who is convinced they're the good guy.
Watch how G'Kar's character grows now that he has had this epiphany.
Anyone else get the feeling that Medusa may regularly binge this series once she is done with it and doesn't need to stop to make videos of her reactions? Although given how detailed she is, I'd be curious if she did a sort of round up of rewatching the show to talk about things she missed the significance of in the earlier seasons...
We don't know if Talia had been dissected, or if that was just a ruse to anger the command staff, JMS left it deliberately ambiguous because of how show casting was back in that era, it's not like modern shows which seem to have a much easier time retaining cast members
I'm so looking forward to her reactions for the next few episodes, for reasons long time fans will be able to guess
That would be very interesting to see.
Or maybe you are trying to throw Medusa off the track here, since we already know what happens ...... ? Please remember that even mentioning things we know that DID NOT happen, years later can still be a spoiler for this lovely lady. I'm enjoying her reactions too much for even the smallest story points to be revealled prematurely.
@@tulinfirenze1990 Noted, hopefully the edit is better
Personally, I think her cat is already secretly bingeing the series when she's not paying attention.
Yep, damn good show. Hard to find a better written, more subtly complex series ever made. Love to see you enjoying it like I have done. Best is yet to come!
I am re-watching Babylon 5 watching you watch it. I have seen the show 2 or 3 times and find myself 'skipping' episodes. Watching you watch it does not allow me to skip anything while still be entertained.
And to think it was setting up the audience to think Bester was here to scan the command staff.
Then Bester willingly volunteers to take the telepath-suppression drug, and the real story begins…
Lol loved the cat "what are you doing mum? Oh I will see you later after you finish watching that" there was a brief scene in lando's mind that had a shadow ship in it
7:00 Ostensibly, Sinclair is the ambassador from Earth. Vir is the Centauri diplomat on Minbar. There _had to_ at least a casual welcome/introduction.
One of my favorite moments, when G'Kar starts his epic change.
Susan came to crossing a major line. An intense moment.
You tearing up a bit over Talia breaks my heart a little. I've always felt she deserved better than what she ended up getting on the show.
Vir's faith in Londo is adorable.
Great reaction to G'Kar's spiritual epiphany. A profound turning point for the character.
I have watched this series form beginning to end, i can say that watching your reactions is the most i have enjoyed this series.
JMS has said that, as an in-joke, he wanted to do a scene later in the series where we'd see Talia's brain in a jar on Bester's desk in his office.
I believe Dust is mentioned back in the Gathering? Good old forward planning! Very important episode this one...
What a cute cat! Is it drawn into the story too? This is such a great episode for character development, especially for G'Kar but for some others as well. It's in my view one of the show's great strengths - even when the plot starts ramping up, characters are at the center of it all. You'll see more excellent character scenes this season...
I sometimes wonder if they did kill Talia, I think he said that to upset them. They tried to get her to have a child with that empath they created and, depending on when she was programmed, I wonder if her gift was not accessible by her other personality so I don't think they'd kill her yet. I'm sure its the long term plan, but I'd guess for now she's alive
Killing her would seem to be a massive waste of resources, from Psi Corps point of view.
No doubt they took several generic samples, did biopsys, etc. But I've always been reasonably sure Bester was lying about the dissection bit.
Actually there was a flash of a shadow ship when G'Kar is in Londo's mind. It's the 4th or 5th image in the fast cut starting at 10:10.
Funny thing is while Vir made correct assessment of the Minbari, it was in peace time. Londo´s interpretation was Minbari in wartime and boy, is he right.
We did see a Shadow ship, when Londo looks to the sky and one passes overhead.
A masterpiece in writing, acting, directing and editing. Sublime television.
I love the premonition from Vir about Londo, that at some point in the future Londo will surprise everyone with something unexpectedly good.
He owed _(redacted)_ a favor.
5:54 aaaaawwwwwwrrrrr beautiful kitty cat :)
This might be my favorite episode ever! I CANT WAIT TO SEE THIS!! 🥰💗🥰💗🥰😎 #AllOfItMollariALLOFIT
Special guest appearance of this vid. Your cat! 👍😄
CAT!
I just found your channel and reactions a few days ago. Nice job! Thank you for engaging so much with each show and letting me re-experience my own first viewings through you. I like your strategy of avoiding the credits in new Babylon 5 seasons. Since your Patreon says you are near the end of season 3, I recommend you also avoid looking at the on-screen overlay credits (e.g., "special guest star XYZ") for the rest of the season, and then continue skipping the opening credits for the first few episodes of season 4.
You are fortunate that the series is complete and you can advance to the next episode at will. Can you imagine watching a season finale and then being forced to wait several months to see the next season opener?
Separately, with regard to this particular "Dust to Dust" episode:
*Londo has never personally seen a Shadow ship except in his dream, so it is perhaps not surprising that G'kar likewise did not see one in Londo's mind except within Londo's dream.
*Londo mentions in season 1 (S1E1) that Centauri can see their own deaths in dreams, and that he first recognized G'kar from his own death-dream. The hand may recur just because it is part of the recurring dream.
*Other potential links include the techno-mage's "I see a great hand reaching out of the stars..." or the "you are the hand" statement in Sheridan's Stribe-ship dream.
Thank you again for letting us relive our own journeys through yours.
The great hand vision goes all the way back to Season 2 Episode 3, The Geometry of Shadows. Technomage Elric talking to Londo.
Elric - "When I look at you, Ambassador, I see a great hand, reaching out of a star. The hand is your hand, and all around I hear millions of voices crying your name."
Londo - "My followers?"
Elric - "Your victims."
_When the shadows are closing in_
_And your spirit diminishing_
_Just remember you're not alone_
_And love will be there_
_To guide you home_
_Anytime you need a friend_
_I will be here_
_You'll never be alone again_
_So don't you fear_
_Even if you're miles away_
_I'm by your side_
_So don't you ever be lonely_
_Love will make it alright_
aww. even the cat hates Bester lol.
"... and Jeff!" 🤣🤣🤣
Kosh is so awesome
Kosh was the coolest character on that show.
Bester might be one of my favourite villains. I just adore the smarmy bastard
Why now? Why not earlier? All this time, where have you been?
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HERE.
I love the power of that line as a call back as I think he said exactly the same to Sheridan in season 2
As always, excellent reaction.
JMS' middle name must be "Surprise", mustn't it?
Oh, yes, Ivanova does not like Bester. We already knew that, but what she attempted? Not such a good idea.
The scenes with Vir, Delenn and Lennier, and with Londo shows a lot of his character growth, doesn't it?
Then comes the G'Kar/Londo ... powerful stuff. G'Kar now knows how much Londo was involved in all the trouble. Kosh's intervention is a most interesting event. G'Kar seems to be transformed, but will it last?
Mind blowing episode this one... A special day for G'Kar....
This is still one of my favorite episodes. Every episode in season 3 is just awesome. Well except for one episode, but I'm not telling which one 🙂. In retrospect, even that one bizarre episode was pretty good. I envy that you get to see B5 for the first time. The best sci-fi show ever!
Would that be the one featuring an actor from a certain 80s horror franchise?
Haha - I know exactly which episode you are referring to! ; )
@@davidbull7210 Took me a while, but using bits from your comment in my searches, I finally found the episode. I guess I had blocked it out of my mind. lol
@@robertcartier5088 I like that episode - assuming that's the one Heinz P100 means. It's a fairly lightweight, amusing diversion from the main saga.
@@davidbull7210 I liked it at the time, but it does not hold up well to repeated viewing. Maybe it's just me. ;-]
KITTEH!!!!!
The female Psi Cop at the end is actually Walter Koenig's wife.
Love this episode, and I also loved your reaction to it! One of the best so far!
While it is hard to pick this is one of the best episodes in the whole series. Kosh has said "I have always been here" to several people on several occasions. So for me the moment of realization that G'Quan was in fact Kosh registered at that moment which was very spine chilling, with the site of his encounter suit confirmed it.
The problems with Bester are just beginning. I think the next time he shows up is my favourite but won't give that away.
Bester is easily one of my favorite television characters of all time. He is a "villain" who is fully fleshed out and has his own motives and intentions for doing things, and isn't just there to be a two-dimensional foil for the protagonists. I'm really curious how Medusa will feel about him by the end of season 4.
@@jaredsmith575 yeah it's technically a villain I'm not entirely bad guy. I like the theee dimensional nature of most of the characters on this show
@@zippydebrain antagonist is probably a better term.
@@oenrn He is certainly that but gets to be somewhat sympathetic in the end (without giving anything away).
You did see a partial view of a Shadow Ship in the flashbacks in Londos mind.
Re: Did they kill Talia
Technically she died when Lyta sent the trigger phrase & the Control personality was freed as that was supposed to destroy her old personality (which was made clear in that episode).
I've always liked this episode, I would say that it's a secretly profound & important one, but that's true of all of them really.
And, of course, deleting Ironheart's gift for good measure right along with her old persona. Oops
We see the Shadow vessels from Londo's dream.
The show is just warming up. There is so much more to come.
And this series is still going to get better - enjoy!
Aww, your reaction broke my heart! 😢💔
6:20 What if Bester has a drug that can counter the effects of the psy blocking drug? He might have anticipated this move and taken that drug.
If he had such a drug, he would have scanned the B5 command staff and passed the information he got to people who would have eliminated Sheraton and his people, killed Delenn, and found and either captured or destroyed the Whitestar, all before Clark's martial law declaration. Since none of that happened, we can conclude that Bester did not have such a drug.
To me this is one of the best episodes of the season, the main plot isn't terribly significant but it marks a turning point for so many characters and the galaxy itself.
You actually do see a shadow ship but it's quick
After watching Walter Koenig as Pavel Chekov on Star Trek, I initially found his casting as Bester rather dodgy. But wow, did he prove me wrong! He plays Bester so well!
And so G'kars actual arc begins.
See this? This was how people "snapped" a couple of decades ago.
In today's Sci-Fi like Discovery, Stephen's "snap" is bordering on the formal and polite. :P