Narcissism Expert Compares Tom Cruise, Meghan Markle & Jordan Peterson | OTE Podcast
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Richard Grannon looks at the 'cult of one' that is narcissism, before analysing attributes of scientologist Tom Cruise, Royal 'princess' Meghan Markle and psychologist Jordan Peterson.
• On the Edge with Andre...
Richard Grannon links:
/ richardgrannon
/ richardgrannon1
Andrew Gold links:
/ andrewgold1
/ andrewgold_ok
/ andrewgold_ok
#meghanmarkle #tomcruise #jordanpeterson
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think of the big trio?
So a biracial woman standing up for herself and placing boundaries is narcissism but an institution that has lasted 37 generation and 1k+ is narcissism? You have literally got to be f'ing kidding me. Brits cannot even heat their f00kin homes yet this non a story is what you're repeating. smh
@@shortyp1000 🙄
@@shortyp1000 What does her being a biracial woman have to do with it?
Those three are not a trio.
I think it's going to be great! 😁🤠👍
I don’t think Dr Peterson is a narcissist. He’s from a fairly small and isolated town in my home province. Ive been there many of times and have family that know his family. I understand the culture and where he is coming from. I am well educated and world’s apart from him on many issues/topics but he is genuine and hardworking not self serving. His emotion is honest and couldn’t be designed or contrived. He exhibits things that a person with true NPD wouldn't be able to.
I agree with you 100%
Empathy - big time...
How is it that "well educated" cannot seem to manage a simple plural?
Or a contraction? Or punctuation?
Or the common phrase, "many times"? Or the equally common, "plenty of times"? (Or whatever was being attempted!)
Was he honest when criticising drug policy and addicts in general whilst hiding a chronic benzodiazepine addiction? I'm not judging as I'm in recovery myself so I know well enough that many addicts are inherently dishonest both to others and themselves
Your comment appears to deny even minor statements made, excuse troublesome behaviour, & make definitive 'he couldn't be' statements based on your OPINION his emotion is honest etc & absolutely couldn't be manipulative, when that is simply untrue in reality. It is entirely possible it could be contrived & manipulative & your denial of that FACT is just like how a 'cult member' justifies their statements/beliefs.
As a 'well educated' person etc, you might want to study cognitive dissonance ;o)
My mother was on the narcissistic spectrum and I married a narcissist. I was a people pleaser . I’m now 56 and only just dealing with these past issues. My mother is now deceased and I’m remarried. But I can see the pattern of my behaviour. I’m now enjoying peace to be honest. Narcissist’s will drain you dry. Brilliant podcast.
Feel yas sister! Chewed gum!! Spit out and move on. Take care of you first
It's called doing soul searching on your inner child
@@user-og6em7mk9l same to you 🫶🏼✌️
I wonder if there is a difference between Controlling & Narc?
I’m 57 & never married-I didn’t want to be 80 & with a narcissitic man for 60 yrs like my mother. It’s a miserable life I see her living.
My X live-in Girlfriend is a Narcissist, took me about 2 years to understand what was going on! do not go there it is not worth it as the manipulation is beyond human.
I am married into an extremely narcissist family and the thing I saw that they were extremely engaging and totally charming UNTIL you saw through them and then all hell broke out.
I met someone who appeared kind , caring and sensitive and because of that managed to pull me in. In fact over time I realised he was the opposite. It’s so scary that narcissists can appear so sweet and genuine. Sadly it’s all a big act for them to get what they want from you.
This probably should be considered - by you - alongside another comment you made on this thread : " Richard is one of the most genuine and authentic people I have come across ".
@@marvinedwards3130 By having that experience I have learnt who is genuine and who isn’t. Happy new year to you Marvin!
@@l.c838 Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Afterall, none of us are infallible. Happy new year to you too.
@@l.c838 I have such a hard time trusting anyone (except my sibling) nowadays.
Been there... it's horrible
My wife was a narcissist and after 28 years of marriage I left her.
Anyone in a relationship with a narcissist should leave sooner rather than later.
You don't realise how you modify your own behaviour and lose yourself within the relationship.
In my experience if they change their behaviour it is fake , they will never ever change .
I left a year ago, after 10 years. We've been pretty good at co-parenting and family time. I don't expect it to last but I have leverage and receipts. They don't change and I did lose myself. It's only been the last couple months that I've been getting back to myself. It's helpful to read what you shared.
what if this person has no real friends? Where can they escape ? who can they go to? what if their own people's are narcs?
@@MicroCenter-s8e Beware getting stuck in the victim mode that your partner and apparently family put you into. You can take positive action for yourself. Make friends in a support group, church, club, class or hobby group, or even on a friend finding app like BFF Meetup, or HeyVina!
@@MicroCenter-s8e Your words are sounding like i've asked that question 😢 I thought i was the only one in this situation....
Im currently trying to leave an abusive relationship with a narcissist. The cost of things are so high that my only option is to sleep in my car because I am alone in life. No family beside a daughter and grandkids and no friend in a position to help. I can live in my car with my current job. So I feel stuck and im almost 50. I worry im going to die trapped and miserable
I like Andrews style. He's very intelligent and asks very good questions but he's very modest and humble with it. What a nice guy. Don't go changing Andrew and keep it up.
Aw thank you Bruce!!!
Agree 100% ❤️❤️
@@AndrewGold1 Such an insightful conversation✨
Calling Markle a "princess" even in quotes is cringe-worthy. Also, I am surprised Jada Picket is not automatically on the list of famous narcissists.
Yes! Jada diagnosed the 2 inch facelift scar in her hairline as alopecia (because hair doesn't grow on scars). She's too much.
Legally she is!...A Princess of the United Kingdom....Unbelievable that Harry married her....What a pratt!
She is on the list
Well, the list of "famous" narcissists would be too long. Whatever the percentage of the general population is "narcissists", you could probably multiply that by 10 if you are looking at people in show business.
Yes, people don't understand that just because she married a Prince, it doesn't necessarily make you a princess. I'm sure that was made clear to her, yet she would go around telling children that she was a princess. Catherine, on the other hand, would gently correct a child calling her a princess and say "no, I'm (just a ) Duchess. Even though she knew she would one day be the Princess of
Wales, and eventually Queen. She has no airs, no attitude of superiority, nor does she attempt to draw attention from herself and especially not away from her husband like Meghan does to Harry. She pushes and pulls him out of the way so that she can be in the spotlight or be the first to talk to some dignitary or other.
I refer to myself as a recovering narcissist. I do believe narcissists can change. However, like an addiction, one has to see and admit they have a problem. I was blessed with a chance to be alone with myself during the day for several years. During that time I focused on myself and slowly began to realize many, if not all, of my negative issues were caused by me. It can be a rude awakening, but it definitely is a freeing of so much mental exhaustion. Today, I still struggle with how I hurt others and ruined my relationships. I try and make up for a lot. I do hope that one day I can like myself. ❤
I think Narcissists are addicted to humans. They objectify and use humans as a drug.
If you have narcissistic personality disorder which is what is normally meant by a "narcissist", you cannot change.
If you merely have narcissistic traits, you can change.
Narcissists do not do introspection, period.
Megan Markle worked at a Coach store selling purses here in Chicago when Serena was practicing tennis all day until her hands bled. My sister was the sales director of the store at the time and I hear she had the same entitled attitude back then.
Very interesting
She married a Prince,unlike you and your sis ;)
Ive have met JP & actually spoken to him. He fundamentally is a Beautiful HUMAN who is genuinely concerned about the world & is not afraid to speak out!
I like him too!
I love JP
@@AndrewGold1 I'm Nuetral
I think his genius is some what over blown
But impressed with his stance re the Canadian Gov overreach🕊️
🕊️
Yeah. He is concerned about people who have views opposed to his own and calls them demons and trolls. Beautiful human
@@steven5054 he's defo super marmite
I like to study him & the responses he correlates with, like a sociology project...
🕊️
Jordan Peterson is not a narcissist. He is rare, however. A courageous man who went against the woke authoritarianism we all cower under. He gets frustrated, maybe even misguided, but he's genuine.
I did immediately laugh at Peterson being lumped in with Tom Cruise and the Duchess of Sussex. I suppose that elevates Peterson to an A-list Hollywood celebrity status?
Jordan Peterson operates in a fantasy world where everything is fair and right and there are simple solutions to any given problem. So yeah he's probably a narc.
He is what stupid people think a smart person sounds like.
@@katherinez1234
Indeed
He is a sell out muppet for Shapiro.
How could they walk into the Queen’s funeral and sit there, watch everyone praise her life, her devotion to the Nation and Commonwealth, all the time knowing that they were going to release this dreadful mockumentory. This one act validates my opinion that she, and they, are just not likeable people.
Very well said and I totally agree with you
Same , it shows how despicable they are.
@@Peaceshiet812I'm surprised they didn't do away with her as they did with Di.
But the real culprits are probably gone.
Harry is decent, his intentions are pure imo
Woke people genuinely think they are doing the right thing and he is getting sucked up in that, manipulated by Meghan who is clearly a narcissist and has a self serving agenda under the facade of being woke
It shows their lack of empathy.
Unfortunately people have started labeling anyone and everyone as Narcissistic. It is a very REAL thing, but thrown around just to put people down. This man is very intelligent. I appreciate him talking about it carefully
Yep. Everyone's ex is a "narcissist."
Exactly,its quite complicated,yet ppl grab the first sentence of any description and apply widely. They forgot “selfish” and brand it as “narcissist “. They can morph into each other but thats a different story. Misuse of language these days is mind blowing and irresponsible
Narcissism is quite prominant, however, some are mildly narcissistic, others are highly narcissstic. And of course there ARE many people who attract narcissists. Empaths attract narcissists - they love people who acquiesce to them, are overly tolerant, givers who do not expect others to reciprocate. It only makes sense. So caregiving individuals need to learn what they can about narcissists and pay attention to what they are seeing and experiencing.
@@estherscegolsky1972 I agree. The difference is like: a selfish person will bring one bottle to the party and will drink it alone forgetting about the partner. A narc will bring nothing and will blame his/her partner for it
@@evenbetterthanthereaIthing brilliant explanation
I don't ever call myself a victim! I'm the victor! I got out safely w my kids!
That is fantastic. I escaped from an abusive relationship many years ago.
I agree with you about Millennials and their need for fame/positivity. I was a primary teacher for 45 years and during the 80s /90s teachers, in Australia, were told to only give their students positive feedback. School reports had to praise and never criticise. My, middle primary, students would burst into tears if I asked them to redo any poor work. We did them a huge injustice for which society is now paying.
Yes, then they go out into the real world and are not prepared what hits them. They are incapable of dealing with challenges that may be brought against them, particularly in employment.
80s?
I was a school student in Australia in 80s and until the mid 90s and by no means were the teachers positive all the time to us at all. Also I'm gen X not a Millenial. For Millenials you would be looking at 90s and into 2000s anyway.
I am a teacher and that negative feedback is the backbone of improvement and progress. Perhaps those students now believe the king is well-dressed..
And the gems and lessons that come in those rewrites can make incredible writers and authors of Great Works with some good suggestions. So TRUE!!!
I agree about MM's ethnicity. My father was half Jewish and had darker skin than her. I had absolutely no idea of her black heritage, and have read that she identified on her CV and driving licence as Caucasian. It only became an issue when she made it one.
WORSE, SHE IS USING BLACK PEOPLE. PROBABLY LAUGHING AT THEM IN PRIVATE. OH TO BE A FLY ON THE WALL
Well said
Bing-O!!! Spot On!!
In the US those with 28% and higher African ancestry often identify as black, less than caucasian.
Black culture is the ultimate in Narcissism (alongside Islam).
So a 'Woke' Covert Narcissist/Female Narcissist will feel a toxic connection with the narcissist traits...from the False Manipulative Victimhood, to the endless Projection.
Covert Narcs use 'being offended' to gain Power over others.
"Woke Narcissists ONLY have Empathy for fellow Narcissists...and they genuinely believe it's Empathy".
Note the patterns...
I do not see Jordan Peterson as a narcissist. Just my opinion but I believe he is a complex , brilliant man with compassion and a good heart. I lived with a narcissist and Jordan Peterson is nothing like that.
He claims to consider hierarchies of competence to be sooo important, yet he uses his platform to proselytise about disciplines on which he lacks the most basic competence, such as philosophy (Postmodern-Neomarxists conspiracy theory) and economics (lobster theory of capitalism) and politics (everything is the left's fault, including right wing extremisms and their political violence) in the knowledge that his platform is way bigger than that of any actual expert in those fields... he definitely has a disproportionate image of himself....
He gaslit public opinion by claiming Marxists would not debate him when most people were listening but then quietly made it impossible to debate Marxist economist Richard Wolff by requesting $70.000 to the student union that asked him when he wanted the debate to take place... Wolff was very happy to cover his own costs and take no pay to have the debate which should tell you everything about each guy's motives
When a public debate with a marxist philosopher finally happened, as observed by Grannon, his contribution were very low in any content. For all his railing against Marx he actually demonstrated all he had read of him was a short 18 page political pamphlet when Marx was primarily an economist and wrote thousands of pages of work...
@@strumspicks2456 Peterson is entirely clear, if you listen carefully, that his core competence is belief structures of totalitarian political regimes, psychometrics, personality assessment, and clinical psychology. That's entirely enough for one person. He also has his "sage" stage persona where he opines about everything and anything. That's his entertainment business. His audience doesn't _want_ him to be a patient and devout Marxist scholar. They _want_ him to hurl lemon cream pies.
So far as Marx goes, he's not remembered well as an economist. Modern economics incorporates very little from Marx. His foundational definition of value, which he set up to equate (or conflate) with tangible labour outputs, excludes most of the modern economy, where the outputs are primarily information. His thousands of pages of economic output are mostly of historical interest at this point. I'm sure there are nuggets of insight in there, somewhere, but the reconstruction effort is immense, because he kicked his main project off on the wrong foot.
Freud is remembered better as a psychologist, despite the majority of his specific proposals (e.g. the complexes right out of Greek literature) having little traction in modern psychiatry. The subconscious is a big deal, and Freud was instrumental in bringing attention to this domain.
What Marx is remembered for is his activist political stance around class consciousness. The popular understanding of Marx's class consciousness is barely one napkin in excess of the Laffer curve originally used to justify Reaganomics (which was actually drawn up on something ready to hand from a restaurant table). I've tried to get beyond the popular understanding of Marx, but it's actually hard to find anything where Marx's foundational political move doesn't strike me as the most reductive conception of natural human affiliation ever put to paper. Nor have I ever found anything persuasive about how human affairs would be securely organized after the proletarian rapture.
Inside baseball, Marx is also remembered as a historian.
_Marx never brought together in one published work a systemic or comprehensive description of historical materialism._
Marx would not be a major figure in the public consciousness for an abstruse, interwoven re-interpretation of history dribbled out over several decades in thousands of pages of dense prose. It was his radicalism that injected him into the conversation. On that front, he has plenty in common with Jordan Peterson.
Marx's actual radicalism does not strike as as much more sophisticated than Peterson's lobsters. I don't think a substantive treatment would _need_ more than 18 pages. Contrary to your depiction, Peterson's lobsters are a biological metaphor for dominance hierarchies. I don't happen to like this metaphor. I believe in the biological foundation of dominance hierarchies to begin with, and for my money this metaphor did not further the cause. Everything gets more complicated with a thick neocortex wrapped around it, but I wouldn't dare to pretend that the biochemical basis of dominance hierarchies is not still in there, alive and kicking.
(continued)
@@strumspicks2456 (continued)
Peterson hardly ever talks about economics, as such, that I can think of. His basic line is maybe this: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Don't wind up in the poor house because you failed to take responsibility for your situation while there was still time to do something constructive about it. He talks about the economic realities of the job market for A) unskilled labour (grim); and B) highly skilled creative labour doing original work (barely less grim). His personality has a dark side, which he freely admits, and it's often darker than I prefer.
You might disagree with my assessment of Marx, but I've been more generous to Marx than you've been to Peterson. Should Peterson be required to possess a degree in Marxist scholarship to publically critique what little of Marx has penetrated the public consciousness? My term for that is institutional capture. Only we can criticize ourselves. Please line up to spend $200,000 for a graduate degree, while squandering four or five of the most productive years of your life in dry, arduous study, with little time left over for gainful employment.
And to what current relevance? The introduction of _Capital_ by Thomas Piketty devotes roughly two pages of the introduction to Marx's economic contributions. Short version: A few good insights into the perils of capital accumulation, larded with (unjustified) apocalyptic fervor-much of which did not pan out as Marx envisioned. Also, Marx's methodology was soon invalidated by this new invention called "data", which Marx might have happily used, had it then existed, but he jumped the gun.
So Marx had this napkin-level analysis of the governing dynamics of a rapidly changing world (1850 to 1950 was wall-to-wall gonzo innovation) which justified total overthrow of the golden goose. Horse and buggy to space rockets; Darwin to DNA; lemon juice to pen stock turbines; none of this dents Marx's sketchy revolution. He had it all figured.
Yeah, there were problems. This wasn't new then, it isn't new now. Over the last 100 years, another 6 billion people have joined the clamour. We've mostly coped. On the other hand, with less prosperity, likely also less population growth, so perhaps Marxism was a viable "solution" after all. Things would be so much better if we had deferred 3 or 4 billion lives-and their contributions-by another century or two. It's not eugenics, it's slowgenics. With less human capital, innovation would have been slower. For example, we might now-here in 2023-be updating our Facebook presence via dial-up, which works fine, because we all have half as many friends. La plus ça change, as they say.
Dr. Drew Pinsky (yes, that Dr. Drew) delves into a number of cogent points about addicts and narcissism.
The tl;dr of it is that addicts are highly narcissistic when active, but it's unclear whether personality structure issues resolve with treatment through time or if said issues are still lifelong following abstinence. Dr. Pinsky thinks it is an underlying issue altogether through his decades of practice (before he became well-known on TV).
meh...he is a word salad master....kind of a bs artist. some good points...but he takes things too far and tries to practice verbal jiu jitsu to amaze and befuddle..certainly not to communicate clear truth.
Jordan peterson actually cares about people and it shows. How can he says he is narcisistic and not Tom Cruze ?
Yes Dr. Jordy Poo is a narcissist and the term is communal narcissist!!!!
I'm is an act. Cares to promote a false narrative
Agreed. Peterson does not belong in this group.
@@rs5570 you must be him at rolling your own. Stop over defending there is bigotry and backwardness in his work source material that came from narcist b and he could be pretending to care for is very specific demographic that just happens to be you and you can't see beyond
It's hilarious to me how everyone is a narcissist these days and diagnosed by erm, armchair analysts, what the fuck does it actually mean
Narcissistic people and people pleasers are of the same coin just different sides
In terms of repetition compulsion it was the opposite for me. Being raised by narcissists and even a wider narc family I never ever allowed a relationship with a narc simply because I would cut ties at the first red flag. I told myself I’d never let anyone abuse me even if I need to live alone my whole life. Sadly I had some mistakes with friends that I had misread but all sorted now 🙏
Good for you.
Sounds like you've worked hard to break the chain (so to speak) from that family perhaps?
Or if it's a chemical imbalance that runs in your family, you didn't get that gene. It's difficult to keep them at bay. :)
Wow, you really broke the pattern before it even started. Amazing. Some of us has spent all life narc jumping.
@@michellemooresings thank you, I try to give myself acknowledgement for every strength and progress no matter how small which is a huge step forward from how bad I used to treat myself . So I appreciate the positive reinforcement 🙏
I think as the scapegoat I could feel and see it was all wrong and fought against it even though I couldn’t fully grasp why due to all the gaslighting and projection. I felt so trapped at home that I can’t understand how people long for their childhoods, I would never go back to that helpless and powerful feeling. I so waited to be a grown up and be able to feel free and have peace that I couldn’t even accept the thought of a new prison, if that makes sense.
To be clear I had a lot of issues with boundaries at work and with friends for most of my life but never in relationships. Maybe that’s why I only had a few short and only one serious relationship with my now husband.
I also think that as an introvert I find intimacy and my home extremely sacred and I could never share it with someone that would destroy that for me. Interestingly enough my husband is also the first child in a narc family. Both his parents are narcissistic albeit different kind than mine.
@@hsk2909 thank you I appreciate your words 🙏. Like I elaborated in my other reply I still had a problem with boundaries with everyone else until recently and I have started to make progress only in the last few years with a lifetime to unlearn.
I just didn’t allow it in my relationships and maybe it was because I so longed to get out of the e prison I was in that I promised myself I’d rather be alone than let anyone in my intimate introvert life that would disturb my peace. I don’t think I ever had real peace though because I always tormented myself for everything and everyone but at least I didn’t have to put up with that at home 🙏
There is - I'd say - a big difference between knowing, that your parent(s)/family is "defect", and knowing that it's about narcissism. How old were you, before you "put the label on"? I was far to old to really be able to change anything important for me. Except for the "OMFG-AHAAAA" where all the pieces of the puzzle, that I had fought with and spoken about with "anybody I met" just slid into place, the knowledge just came to late.
He is focusing on grandiose narcissists and ignoring covert narcissists that are harder to detect but can do at least as much damage if not more.
That is because I believe Richard is a hybrid covert/ vulnerable narcissist himself. I saw the red flags throughout his interview.
Very true 👍👏👏👏👏
Covert narcs don't meet criteria for NPD (according to consensus opinion of clinical psychs) and are largely considered treatable.
They are still very narcissistic though but are easily disarmed by triggering their still-intact self-doubt.
Dyed in the wool pathological narcissists are essentially psychopaths that operate via their _chosen_ identity whereas only psychopaths operate mostly by impulse. Covert narcissists are able to feel guilt, whereas pathological narcissists and psychopaths cannot feel guilt.
@@Meritouschannelsyes!!!
Chris Watts! There's a very informative channel called "live abuse free" who analyses different narcissists and she was very good at explaining how covert narcissists minds work.
In my personal experience, I grew up having a narcissistic mother and was trained to accept and conform to her abuse. This was followed by 3 narcissistic partners who I agree, were the comfort zone until I reached a wake up call and now healed all coping mindsets and learned all about recognising narcissistic traits and walking away from any abusive people in any area of my life.
It's hard to do. There is so much conditioning over time with this experience.
Good Job Wendy Smith - a difficult job to do and follow through with - emotionally painFULL in moments and completely liberating in the long run. Good on YOU!!!
Does you mother have a formal NPD diagnosis? Do your former partners have formal NPD diagnoses?
@@rv706 No, narcissist's have a less than 1% cure rate - everyone else has the problem but them in their mindset. To try to get a formal NPD diagnosis in which the Narc participated in & went to healing for . . . is next to impossible - thus such a low cure rate for it.
A friend, a psychology student, unknowingly straightened me out regarding my life. My mother was diagnosed as a narcissist when she was in her 60's. The friend told me not to waste time trying to figure her out. Just move on with my life, don't analyze it etc.
I did and my life changed for the better.
To be told that I had the option to move on and let it all fade away was magnificent.
I had to educate myself, and it took me ages to figure out my narc dad. In the meanwhile I kept repeating the pattern. And still do, at times, it seems. Even if you know, they are hard to figure out. But it helps to know and to walk away. Just stop wondering what makes these people tick. Never come back. Stop blaming yourself. You are better off alone, really. Better luck next life around?
Pfff Jordan Peterson is NOT an narcissist.
Why, because you like him?
@@meowy4720 Why? Do you like like him? You are jealous aren’t you? 🤣🤣
@@kmily700 pfff…No narcissist worth a damn is only worth a dime, but a damn dime dumb narcissist. If narcissists acted like a narcissists we’d know who they all are.
He is definitely is. He wants to be known as a complex superior individual. He has loooots of rage i dont know why... There are lots of really better psycholosits but i see none of them see themselves that much think that only his way is right and everybody else are wrong
He is a psycho, in the sense of very smart narcissist. But yeah he is definitely in the dark triade.
This household LOVES Richard Grannon. HUGE fans. Cannot wait to dive into this....his words are solid gold 😎🔥
“Never try to destroy someone’s life with lies, when yours can be ruined with the truth.”
I’ve never heard that before, it’s very wise.
That's a good one. I will be using it.. Sounds like something Oscar Wilde would have said
👌
@@aussieannie01 ~ Yea ...something Peterson said. He does NOT belong there!
Disagree as per usual with a narcissist when JP says it he’s baiting you with his issues. He knows only himself and is reading himself. Like Trump. Trump along with some of the most expensive and creepy narcissists out there is like the gold standard for malignant narcissists. JP only lives in that sort of shadow but he had all the tenets of Trump projecting.
If you had a psychopath in your life, you'll want him/her out. When you confront them for their actions, they will be on a mission to destroy you: lying, defaming, making you look bad, playing the victim, messing up with your mind,taking advantage of your weaknesses...And zero regrets, no apologies, no doubts, no "I'll let it go for now", no weakness from them.
MM gouged out part of the late Queen’s heart when she named her daughter Lilibet. Your choice of words Richard- parasitic and gouging are spot on.
Why would Queen Elizabeth mind that her own great granddaughter is named after her? Regardless what the queen thought of Meghan, surely she didn’t dislike her own great granddaughter.
I had a narcissist Mother and a older sister 11 years older that was also a narcissist and a alcohol father! I had a terrible childhood but as a very young child figured out to never go running to my Mother with problems I was born with a disability and she would make it all about her! I was very lucky to have a wonderful therapist who totally changed my life! You really have to invest in your mental health! I married a wonderful man and had two children! Even went back to therapy when I was pregnant bc I never wanted to be anything like my Mother. Narcissist also constantly lie! My therapist assured me that fact that I was sitting in her office I would be nothing like her! I think it made me a much better Mother!! I have to admit though I can’t bare narcissists!!
I'm so glad you were able to connect with a therapist so early! It absolutely changed the likely trajectory of your life! ❤
@@caobranch thank you so much!❤️❤️❤️
Who’s a narcissist? Cruz? 👍. Markle? 👍. Petersen? I don’t see it.
Me neither
Jordan Peterson being called a narcissist, is hilarious. So wrong.
Soooo wrong
Sooooo right. Lmaoo. You need to learn what a narcissist TRULY is. Then you'll see the truth...past your biases about your favorite media cartoon character
An interesting discussion. I agree with much of what Mr. Grannon says about narcissistic behaviour. However, having checked out his RUclips videos, I found some of his advice on the healing process following narcissistic abuse highly manipulative. He talks about the ‘dual mothership’ theory which I won’t explain here, but he basically tells people that unless you undergo a process of therapy (achieved by purchasing his online course/book), you will never fully recover and may well go on to repeat the same negative pattern of being manipulated by a narcissist.
He also says that if you refute his theory, then you are behaving like a narcissist yourself (having been brainwashed into this behaviour by the narc in your life!). I’d be wary of anyone who puts forward such a theory- but he’d probably just tell me that I’m a narcissist for saying that - 😂.
Isn’t this manipulation for monetary gain? If not. Why doesn’t he give away this ‘vitally important’ course free? Surely the RUclips channel is pretty lucrative in itself.
I’m not against him selling his course, just not impressed by the manipulative sales tactics- especially when many of his viewers are probably emotionally vulnerable after leaving a relationship that left them feeling broken and drained.
Personally, I’d recommend Dr Ramani on RUclips. . She doesn’t sell anything, but the narc advice is really good.
Yah for sure the mark of a narcissist is when they alone can help you
Thank u for ur insightful recount.
Victims who r not fully aware of the narcisstic patterns of relationships.
Victims, who r still captives in relationships, or have just dicovered the harrowing truth. Those victims r in the MOST DANGEROUS stage. The need EDUCATION on how to SAFETY MEASURES in order to exit without losing their lives or their sanity.
Victims who r still striving to figure out the healing journey with qualified psychiatrists who have compiled their knowledge over decades of case studies of narcissts/victims .
Why the capitals? Not really sure what you’re trying to say?
Wow that is all kinds of wrong.
I actually purchased one of his courses( It was about 4-5 years ago) called "Silence The Inner Critic". I am not someone who has a whole lot of money, and at the time I actually used my financial aid card to sign up for it! 😂😂😂 I believe the total for the course was at least 400-450(could've been more, I honestly don't remember). I only ended up paying half because my financial aid check didn't end up going through on time for the final payment. I remember how terrible I felt at that moment about it, because he's someone I've been following and looked up to greatly. But I thank God now in retrospect, because maybe 8 months after the initial release the course was FREE!!!! Lol There was nothing special in the course, and one step included the emotional flashback work which has always been free. I just left that incident and approach others with the mindset that most people and professionals do not have a clue how to heal trauma. Because honestly, I'm really starting to think that it can't come from an outside source. My opinion, of course. I still watch his stuff and others on this topic, but I'm not watching anymore for some magic cure.
I’m with you on two out of three. I’ll separate JP bc of his obvious empathic qualities.
@Danny miller to you as well. Ask away
Jordan Peterson is a great, intelligent, compassionate bloke
he’s a bit of a mess , really.
dont like the guy, my intuition is saying something opposite
@@michals1108 He is a fraud.
@@ileanamuntean7338 yes I think same he is a mess
Like all Supernova Empaths.
Richard needs a few years more to get these diagnoses right, but he's confused by the Narcissist traits that Supernovas take on, when bashing the bully (such as 'Woke' Covert Narcissists and Sociopaths).
Richard G still has much to learn. But he's getting there.
HG Tudor, our favorite narcissist, has published much documentation and done an entire series on narcissism, analyzing these three people and a large number of other well known narcissists: Amber Heard, Elon Musk, Gwenyth Paltrow, King Charles, Prince Andrew, Boris Johnson, and many more. His primary subject for the last year, that I know of, has been Meghan Markle. What an eye opener!
That’s how I found Andrew, when he interviewed HG.
Gwyneth Paltrow? Really?
@@inchkademuiter3048 Definitely ;-) I found myself wondering at King Charles.
Top comment right there!
So many videos of Megan. Like dude 😅
It's not that we attract narcissists, psychopaths, etc. It's just that it takes us a while to realize that what they are doing to us is wrong, as we are used to these behaviors. We simply accept more pain without even noticing being treated badly (after all, our family members loved us, right?! This is how you show love, correct?! - Irony alert) and we know how to do the other side of their dynamics, after all we were "trained" almost our whole life for this. And even sometimes, unconsciously, we feel that this is how we should be treated.
You just made the case for why we attract narcissists, you do realize this? The same way we can sniff out a narc a mile away when we’ve been abused by them, is the same way they can sniff out a vulnerable person who can easily be victimized while providing them the fuel they need.
I’ve done years of therapy for narcissistic abuse and am quite solid in my boundaries, and married to a wonderful loving normal man now, but I still manage to get narcissists swirling around me in everyday life. The strange attraction they have for me is very disconcerting. They want to be my friend, they want me to go work for them. No thanks!!! I’ve left jobs when I ended up with a narc boss. I’ve ghosted narc friends. I have zero tolerance for them.
@@ALT-vz3jn We don't attract, they try with several people and we are the only ones who accept these behaviors. Who is normal does not accept. That's not attracting, that's being one of those who fall into the trap. Attracting is another thing.
@@testebiiidama4129 I totally agree with you and feel annoyed when some of the narcissism counsellors etc state that relatively healthy people, or anyone, can be manipulated by highly narcissistic individuals, then stay with them for years, yet there are people who notice red flags right away and won't see the person again. 🤔
@@cyndigooch1162 That's right, all of us who have been manipulated by a narcissist at some point in our lives, can look at the past and remember people who looked at them with strangeness and sometimes even with disgust the first time they met. Healthy people can be fooled by some Cover narc for a very short time or a very superficial acquaintance. But manipulated only those who already have the pattern of behavior.
like many others commenting here, I completely disagree with anyone calling Jordan Peterson a narcissist.
You don't know him
I heard the Stephen Fry interview. Poor Stephen was so polite, and Peterson rambled on with his new, four syllable vocabulary, then he said he wanted to understand Myths, while Fry struggled to stay awake - it was endless and a bit embarrassing.
He wants Jordan Peterson to be a narcist. Lol he's truly crying in those scenes
I’ve spent time with Peterson one on one in his own home. He’s just as kind and gentlemanly in person as he is on camera. Great listener and very down to earth. The idea that he’s a narcissist is absurd.
Narcissists are enormously charming. People who are attracted to them are generally good people who are attracted to compelling and exciting personalities, but that is most definitely not clinical. The challenge emerges when the person does not have a healthy reaction to the abuse that narcissists mete out to those who are close to them. And often that abuse is disguised as care. For many people, it takes a great deal of support to break away from the narcissist's web, but it is the best path. Run!
‘ enormously charming ‘…yes, to get what they want at any given time. Genuine charm is something the person who has it is generally unaware of, in my opinion.
I'm so pleased to have discovered your channel. I often listen to Richard Grannon. Your talk together was the most engaging internet conversation I've heard for months. Just perfect! Many thanks to you both!
Aw thank you tim!
Watching to see how the hell they’re going to compare Cruise Markle to Peterson 👀👀 my view is that he is the opposite. His empathy seems to hurt him a lot of the time 😢look up him talking about Michelangelo’s Pieta 😭 that’s not a narcissist surely
I’m an American, and I’d never heard of her before her marriage to Harry.
I never knew she was black until she made it an issue.
She passed herself off as white her entire adult life. She even had “white” on her drivers license.
My narcissist ex husband was a lieutenant colonel, and now he's going to be a minister. They love that shit.
Religious leaders of groups are odd. Just an excuse to force one to agree with their ideas I.m.o.
@@Geeronimo99 it's to be as Godlike as possible to other people
Person who call himself "expert" is the first sign of narcissism.
Others may call you an expert but it is very poor form , read: pathetic, to call yourself one.
Rubbish IMHO. This dude had been teaching on narc abuse for over a decade at least, when I stumbled upon him. How long does someone have to specialise on a topic to be an expert, in your opinion.
@@claudiabTVso Prince Harry talks about mental issues all the time, for years.. but he is not qualified and far from and expert…. People that have studied personality disorders for years and years will generally not call themselves experts on narcissism as they say narcissists cannot always initially be seen for what they are, and even they can be fooled at the start. But some people because they have ‘exposed’ themselves like Rachael Markle, have no where to hide now exposed.
I listened to half an hour and no mention of the “trio” but I was convinced that there’s no better expert on narcissism than HG Tudor
Both HG Tudor and Richard have very valuable information to share. I’ve bee listening to them both for several years. I love Richard for his very down to earth and authentic personality.
@qsita, thanks to your comment, U scolded ahead to 30:00 and the 3 were mentioned from that point after- but that’s a lot to listen to, seems like click bait even though I like Andrew’s posts
As an American who spent 4 months in London 20 years ago, I can still recall the 2 most jarring differences I noticed between England and the U.S.: no obvious sign of black/white racism; a decrease in that almost unconscious feeling of fear of predation one carries as an American woman. Re the latter, I only recognized the fear after I noted I wasn’t feeling it any longer.
Key phrase: no "obvious" signs. My black/brown friends in London could tell you a very different story. In many places in the U.S. and London/Edinburgh, etc. U.K., the veneer is non-racist. Until ... And of course, you'd best not be a dark-skinned person in rural areas on either continent/isles. :-( But sure, positive experiences are teaching experiences too.
I would hazard guess that you saw no obvious signs of racism as you are not a person of colour. I remember getting of at the station where my uni halls of residence was and a man walked by me and said something got on the train and left. All happened within 10 seconds and I remember thinking what is he on about! I am home, I live opposite the station. It took me a minute to clock he meant go home, go home. to where my parents were born. I was so angry when I figured that out biut had no one to take that anger out on, as I said it was over in 10 seconds. No one else on that station knew what happened but it happened.
And 2 white men talking about racism, my first thought was "what the f do you know about it!". Other then that I really like the discussion.
@@WellISaidIt I understand what you are saying, as I have witnessed this behaviour first hand myself and have had my three children experience this in school. My daughter, particularly suffered. I have to say that I believe that the people who exhibit this are few now days, doesn't make it right. I bought my children up to ignore the insults and embrace their differences to others, this isn't always easy or achieved, but you should aim to ignore this ignorance in others and claim your right to be here. Sad, unhappy, uneducated and shallow people fail to acknowledge others right to exist. I would hazard a guess that these people also mock disabled people, overweight people, thin people, famous people. They are just hateful in general, the world is full of people not like this, so why give those that are power.
@@WellISaidIt As if a white person in a non white area would be less victimized.. That is soooo naive..
Hi to all, my apologies. I didn’t mean to offend. My observations didn’t catch activity that reminded me of how racism played out in New York. I didn’t see anything obvious and that’s all I could have noticed bc i wasn’t experienced in picking up and translating the myriad of social cues. London was very different from New York. I’d be walking around thinking ‘this is just like Manhattan’ then would suddenly see a building older than my country and notice the slate sidewalks. Our cultures differ quite a bit with regard to social norms and expectations.
I revise. I didn’t see what I understood to be black/white racism. I just didn’t know what yours looked like. One can always learn. To this day I hadn’t considered that an ideology could express in any way than how I was used to understanding it.
As an aside, I was caught up in the obvious classism I saw nearly everywhere. We had snooty rich people but they weren’t of a different class, a better breed, they just had more money and were snotty
Regards and please, forgive my offense, I did not mean to belittle anyone’s experience.
That was one of my biggest AHA moments in therapy for having a mother so controlled by her narcissism . . . is that I chose others like her . . . and I did this because as a child I was told this is what love looked like. I cried when I made this connection. I even felt sorry for my ex-husband for a brief moment or two - I felt sorry for myself - I worked to heal it even more. One of the biggest revelations to me in my life and how I needed to go forward. Although it was painful to look at - it was one of the most healing things for me to recognize in myself and some of my choices.
Me too.
Richard is one of my favourite experts on narcissism. Having spent 10 years in a relationship with a narcissist, I wish I had heard of him at that time.
Grannon is a narc. He just pretends he isn't.
@@breakthecycle5238Absolutely agree with you. He's always given me the ick.
@@FirehorseGmy narc radar picks up on him as well. Once you’ve been abused by narcs you can tell their subtle natural behavior patterns, they’re all so similar.
OMG I thought it was just me. He triggered my radar immediately.
Does he even have any qualifications to speak on the topic?
@Gia Barrone officially? Not that I'm aware of. He used to collaborate w Sam Vaknin until some sh*t went down. I've been watching vaknin for years and only knew about grannon bc of Sam. Sam Vaknin is the real deal. Go check out his page.
I'm absolutely love the basic description of what Richard is saying, the world is VULGAR.
Peterson is an imperfect person. But as far as public figures, he’s head and shoulders above 99% of all of ‘em. So take it all with a grain of salt and understand the message, JP’s message, is incredibly valuable even if the messenger is at times imperfect
So stoked you’ve got Richard Grannon on your channel! GREAT and highly insightful!
Narcissists raise narcissists and scapegoats who are ppl pleasers. It is pain that is passed down the generations.
I for one saw through her a long time ago. Canadian so I follow the Royals. That smile always made me wince.
I'd love to see you interview Dr. Kirk Honda and talk with him about these people. He's a professor and a psychologist with an incredibly compassionate and vast comprehension of personality disorders and family systems-- he doesn't diagnose from afar, but he is an amazing resource for learning and he could have some great insight as far as the information we see through the media and their own interactions with the world. :) He adds much-needed (and appreciated) nuance to any conversation.
Yes, Dr. Honda is an incredible resource. He is actually bound by the ethics of his profession to speak ethically about these types of things. He is a researcher, professor, with years of experience working with many different types of disorders and diagnosing.
Yes, totally!!!
I even have a Dr K tattoo!! 🤣 big love to that wonderful man✌️❤️
You're right about Dr Honda.
His compassion is so powerful.
(He's made me change my mind about Bullies, and other Mental Disorders....I'm just a bit more understanding towards them)
Dr Honda's knowledge will empower.
Much respect for Dr Honda!
I'm 71, & our kids were being taught that they had "rights" without the balance of responsibility! It made parenting much more difficult & we had to pull the reins to make sure they were balanced & more responsible!!
Love Dr. Peterson, one of the great minds of our times. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼❤
Maybe you're a narcissist as well?
JP is not to everyone's taste. Personally, I disagree with most of his ideas.
@intelligentcat192 such as?
What about the narcissist that learn about what narcissist do and then spend their lives pointing out other peoples narcissism while knowing what others look for and hide those qualities within themselves.
I know someone like that unfortunately!
Yesssss, I've seen my Ex do that...and the question remains: is he aware?!!!!
Like HG Tudor and his channel here on YT.
Mr Gold, have u traced back Granon's videos since onset? He is who he is, but he is definitely not a specialist, and certainly not a reference.
Jordan Peterson is not a narcissis putting him in this group is ridiculous.. Henry Tudor is the best person on this subject
I’m an American & not only had I never heard of Megan Markle, I never would have guessed that she is of mixed race.
You're not very observant then because she totally looks biracial to me. I will agree I'm also American and had never heard of her either, but I didn't watch that show Suits so why would I have?
What an idiotic thing to say! I mean REALLY! Try opening your eyes and giving your head a good shake
I'm American, and i first saw her and thought she was Latin American. When i heard she was claiming racism because she was black I thought, "what? She's not black!" But i knew nothing about her. Had only seen photos.
If by mixed race you mean half black / half white, then I agree with you. But that doesn't mean she looks like what most Europeans or North Americans would call a white person. My first thought would be Latin American, maybe Brazilian. She wouldn't stand out in a crowd in many parts of the world.
@@Doogydoog I did not speculate on which mixed races Meghan could be, she does not look of European descent, but Latino is really what I thought.
Grew up with a narcissistic mother... just hearing the term 'narcissistic rage' gives me chills..
Oh yes. The rages, the gaslighting, the mood swings/pouting, the lying, keeping things we said in mind so she could throw it in our faces in a completely unrelated context… my mother terrorized us into submission.
Ditto !
The term "narcissism" has been so overused it has lost all meaning.
I clicked for the celebrity angle (3 people I dislike) but ended up with a graduate level interview. I did not expect this really insightful and well discussed aspect of sociopathy at first. This should be shared more. Well done.
Andrew’s brilliant and so naturally inquisitive. I love this channel.
Why would you dislike Peterson? How very odd.
@@lloydwaycott8178 I've noticed that a lot of people don't like Jordan Peterson and it's a personal choice, which is the case for everyone.
@@lloydwaycott8178 the man is very toxic. Very very toxic. Evil in disguise. Again...
@@lloydwaycott8178 Jealousy, or just disliking anyone who is popular/people like. When you ask someone why they dislike Jordan Peterson they'll normally give you an emotional reason -- or they will point to something he said one time and use that to dislike his entire body of work (another emotional reason imo). It's strange, but that's how people end up in ditches in their life and miserable. They reject anyone willing to help for and that's their excuse for not getting out of their ditch or seeking help.
"Expert in Narcissm" is a legit qualification now is it? If you need your broken leg fixing would you go to a "leg coach" or a real orthopedic surgeon?! Why would you go anywhere but a real psychologist for psychology help!?
The word ‘expert’ always arouses doubt and suspicion in me.
Because he is a grifter and a hack. This is all to get clicks, everything he says is based on incorrect or blatantly obvious information from observations.
I agree what you are sayjng, but Richard is a very knowledgeable individual on narcicism, who has experienced NPD and helped many people overcome their traumas even Dr Ramani was saying in one of her podcasts that some psychologists cannot spot narcisism in their clients, because its so ingravad in their psychic that its difficult to detect.
In my country many psychiatrists, psychologist do not even know about narcissists, autism, adhd, psychopathy, sociopathy in terms of recognice it, heal from the abuse, or even have experience/expertise!
I have to read English books and go to RUclips podcasts, etc from English speaking prof...+ peoples experiences😅
@@heide-raquelfuss5580 Yes they do! It’s basic psychiatry! And they certainly know more than the quack making this video!
I think Harry had his foot out the door long before he met Megan. I believe that's why he married her. His decision to leave has more to do with his mother's death and Camilla than anything else.
That was the best discussion I’ve heard in a long time! I lived with a person with NPD and psychopathy who was completely delusional. It was so interesting listening to the descriptions/actions of narcissism in general and about specific people.
I love Richard. He's so intelligent and interesting. You were great interviewing him Andrew.
I agree with you. Richard has helped me.💜
Sister in law is a sociopath, her son a narcissist. Awful, awful.. so toxic. We had to distance ourselves. No regrets here.
Jordan Peterson is NOT a narcissist. Period.
Boo Hoo, I am a clinical psychologist, and you need to grow up Peterson is classic magligant narcissist
Hmm, just because you can’t recognize it, doesn’t mean he isn’t
@@Blondie77128 JUST BECAUSE YOU IMAGINE IT DOESN’t mean it’s so.
He’s an idiot
Lol. Ok
When I moved back to the US after being abroad for 20 yrs, I was shocked by the level of "consumerism" & people living on "credit". All normalized. I've also read Edward Bernaes, a genius, but with a big downside.
Comparing MM and TOM CRUISE? Are you kidding? Neither are likeable BUT Tom Cruise has created a acting career that is monumental. Megan has created.....NOTHING. Except revealing that she is absolutely clueless and no authenticity to her, zero.
Narcissism is not related with one's level of success. A narcissist himself would be incensed if he were compared to someone with less success, though.
Dr Peterson is the opposite of a narcissist. He sometimes makes himself too vulnerable. He admits mistakes and shows humility. He has a good relationship with his family.
How do u know that? You are making assumptions
I completely agree. Even the relationship he has with his adult children shows his personality.
@@aWomanFreed The two guys are doing the same thing. Judging without meeting them. I have started watching Peterson's video's the past two months and find him very intelligent. He has a doctorate in Psychology and a BS in Political Science. And when he has discussions with people that have different views, he shows respect and the whole discussion is respectful on both sides. I have never heard of Gannon. I read he has a BSc in Psychology from Aston University. He is a life coach. Read the biographies of both men and watch one of the JP you tube videos that might interest you.
@@laurieinmn6468 thanks, but I’ve already watched everything Peterson has ever posted online….and my conclusion….he’s a fraud. He has a doctorate in psychology from what college? What infamous psychologist had his home base there back in the 1950s? A quick google search can answer that for you….if u wanna know. Sorry but it’s true….Peterson is not who he appears to be.
@@aWomanFreed I didn’t make any assumptions. I’m familiar with him and have watched him on interviews and podcasts. He’s the opposite of a narcissist. He says and does things that a narcissist would never do. He respects others, admits when he’s wrong or has made mistakes, shows empathy and compassion, kindness, and forgiveness. He’s charitable towards others and humble.
I determined all of that without through direct observation and made zero assumptions.
When I tried to follow the conversation of a theoretical astrophysicist, aspects of it sounded like "word salad" to me too. Just because I didn't understand all of it, doesn't mean it's nonsense. I just wasn't there yet. If JP ever uses "word salad" (which I don't perceive) then a similar analogy could be applied here too. The man is a brilliant philosopher - the likes of which I have not seen before in my lifetime.
Andrew, Canadian here. I didn’t know Meghan was black until I saw her mother sitting alone at her wedding. I’d watched the interview, but it didn’t matter. My first thought was ‘why is her mom sitting alone.’ Yes Canadas not zero racist either.
My mum has a primary diagnosis of NPD & I’d agree that change is really difficult for folks with NPD - maybe even impossible for some.
Even though I have zero contact with my mother, I still have a lot of sympathy for her struggle. It’s a sad & lonely life because of the constant drama & trauma that she inflicts on others.
NPD is a mental illness though & folks often seem to mix that up with people who are just exhibit strong narcissistic behaviours. So, it was great to see the distinction being explained here.
@Danny miller Thanks.😬 Merry Christmas to you too.🎄 And sure.
@Danny Miller looks like @Belinda Paul left the chat!!
Is it a mental illness? I thought it was a personality disorder. Like APD, a common comorbidity.
So much harder wen its a family member, my daughter is narcassist I just avoid her wen she is on a full swing attack... but sometimes she is reasonable and I can enjoy her company because I love her very much..bit I have to watch my ps n qs I can't talk to her about anything really.. just agree and yes n no mayb I can tell her something about me or family..but it has to be something that doesn't require an opinion or a big answer or something.. im mayb bot very good at explaining it... but that's what it's like.. and it doesn't matter what anyone has experienced she experienced worse .. very little to none empathy ... very rigid with her routines or anything around herself... they can't b beaten the only way to win is to surrender and just not get into it
My daughter is late 40s has a grown up family herself is married and have their own home.. if I didn't visit her I wld never see her if I didn't message her she wldnt message me.. ive been robbed from my motherhood thro her narcassism and the trauma that caused it in her ... I keep intouch because I love her dearly and know how to keep harmony going if it starts to become unharmonius I step back for a while
Another fascinating discussion, Andrew.
Interesting topic, but tricky.
We all have some narcissistic traits, and the level of them varies throughout our lives depending on the situation. Some are far more so than others. Some are deeply narcissistic, some can just be a bit narcissist at times…
So comparing narcissists and people in general is very difficult.
I believe TC and MM are very much narcissistic - obviously so. But I think JP is a decent man, knocked about by life, trying to help people understand things using his own experience and knowledge , and someone who has gone beyond the fear that keeps most of us from speaking our minds directly. Maybe he can seem a little narcissistic sometimes, but I think at heart he really does mean well. Is he always right? No. But he’s a thoughtful and intelligent guy and he makes you think. That’s a positive effect…
My politics are definitely left-leaning, but I see in JP a bravery and straightforward thinking that is a good step forwards away from the current landscape where people are attacked for the slightest criticism or mistake in descriptors when talking about people. It’s getting scary out there when your speech can be so attacked for so little. JP is refreshing. At least he’s not pretending, and you can disagree with him based on some kind of reality, rather than the fakery of so much overly-careful speaking.
TC is a dramatically narcissistic person, but also I believe was easily manipulated when young. He is a dangerous person now, I think, simply through his involvement in Scientology - but he has at least created some amazing work in his life through his acting career. I dislike the man, but admire his career immensely. So he’s at least brought enjoyment to millions.
The other (MM) brings very little positive benefit to life that I can see. It really does worry me when young people admire her so much and defend her actions so passionately. I don’t get it. It seems so obvious that she’s manipulative and duplicitous. She’s achieved so little, has no real skills, but now purports to educate us all as if she’s some wise sage or has created something amazing for us all to admire. She’s literally just acted a bit at a low level, and has used men her whole life to claw her way upwards. How is that life a great role model?! And the race-baiting and it’s effects online and with minority communities is absolutely dangerous, I think.
I don’t really agree with including JP in the title like this, just because it makes it sound like they ARE comparable. One has a net benefit, another has on balance a positive benefit, and the last has a strong net negative to life.
I know you like JP too 😉
Imho.
Excellent comment
Hello Brams. You sound very fair minded, so I will ask you if you have the time to do some research on MM's past including her childhood. She has actually done quite a few very positive things for humanity (one thing when she was a child about 12ish). I am not a fan of hers particularly; neither do I dislike her in any way. You might find her history quite interesting (academic as well as her family life as a child) and this might either just soften your present stance regarding her, or even go as far as to admire her accomplishments pre-royal family. It's just so easy for most people to paint someone with an unfair brush, especially in this dark era of brainwashing by the media which includes bots, trashy cheap 'journalism', envious and jealous online Karens/Kevins,
and last but certainly not least, paid 'royal watchers' who will do or say anything to a$$i$t in maintaining the monarchy a$ it i$ $uch a huge money making machine.
@@angelhairlaser Hi Vince, thanks for replying in such a balanced and fair way. I have really tried several times to look at things from her point of view and to judge her fairly. She’s certainly had some unfair press, but no more than any other public figure I think.
Unfortunately I disagree on her early life. I should state that initially I was thrilled she was dating and then marrying Harry, and in fact celebrated her wedding with a friend. I had no problem with her being biracial, if anything I saw it as a positive - although I should say that I do try to discount race as I’m just not that interested in someone’s ethnicity. If someone is a public figure, I’ll judge them based on what they say or do, nothing else. I used to really like Will Smith, then after his behaviour at the Oscars I can’t stand him. He revealed himself to be a completely different person, and I can’t discount that.
MM’s dish soap ad claim is a fabrication, I’m afraid. She wrote the letter yes, but so did her classmates and many other school kids for whom it was a project that year. She was interviewed on that TV show because her dad had some influence. No letter from HC has ever been shown and HC has said she has no knowledge of it. The dish soap company has no knowledge of her letter standing out from all the others they received. They changed the ad because so many wrote to complain, not because of one 11 year old girl’s letter. Which makes perfect sense - no large company changes anything based on one child’s letter. MM’s constant claims of changing history with her activism at that age just seem so odd. Only through her eyes does it really look like that. The rest is media hype. She has a lot of backing in the media, contrary to her claims. Her PR firms manage to put almost daily positive pieces in the press, which are duly shared by the media. Generally what she claims is accepted and reported as fact by the press before the facts are gradually revealed.
Her activism for World Vision was, in my view now, a PR stunt. She hired PR reps many years ago and they helped her gain access to certain people and events. On the trip to Africa, she flew first class, took a fashion photographer and a lot of clothes, and seems to have used the setting as a photo op far more than doing anything real to help the people there. On her and Harry’s trip to Africa she stood there amidst abject poverty and people who had suffered horrific abuse, and talked about herself and how much she was struggling. I found that very jarring. Of course she has troubles, we all do, but to use her platform there to complain about her very privileged life was tactless at best.
She’s undoubtedly a clever woman in many ways, and has used PR very effectively in her career. But having good PR doesn’t make you a good person. When you look deeper into almost everything they do, the motives and reality seem very different to those claimed. Even Archewell itself - which could do so much good and is such a high-profile organisation - is claimed by them to have made astoundingly little money in its first year. No accounts are published, so we can’t see the money flowing in or how it is used. Why register it in Delaware, where they could hide the accounts and also only use a minimum of 5% of the donations for actual charity work and use up to 95% of the donated money for expenses and other costs? Why? They seem not to donate their own money, only money donated to Archewell by others. Everything is smoke and mirrors and I don’t like that, not where real suffering and charity is involved…everything with any charitable organisation should be transparent.
They live very lavish lifestyles with expensive clothes and tastes and houses, but never stop complaining about their lives and attacking other people. I could go on, but I hope you’ll allow that I have some justification for not buying into the PR around MM and Harry. I was quite prepared to like and admire her, and I did like and admire Harry - right up until I couldn’t ignore certain things that didn’t sound right… Then it just snowballed and I was left pretty disillusioned.
All imho.
Thank you for your thoughts, nice to see someone that really thinks things through and don’t act on knee jerk reaktion. I do not understand the hate JP gets. People do not listen to what he really say. I don’t agree with him 100% but I don’t like how he is demonised. I like that you also did your research on MM but you’re still openminded.
@@matildacarlstedt thanks Matilda :)
27:26 - Before my ex I never knew anything about narcissism. I'm now constantly looking at everyone's personality and identifying narcissism in my circle. I think it's definitely affected my ability to socialise and I feel like I'm more distant and just want to escape the world because it seems like narcissists are everywhere dominating the world. Lack of empathy is destroying humanity because it's becoming more rampant. In combination with my relationship experience and now seeing narcissism like a ringing bell everywhere it's definitely made me slightly hyper-focused on narcissism. Your comments are making me realise how unhealthy this is but I'm not sure what to do about it.
It’s the worst thing you can do. You’re not an expert of educated enough to deem who is and isn’t a narcissist. Every single person displays narcissistic traits and if you catch someone on a bad day you’ll diagnose them in error.
I do the same...
Yes...the world is or seems full of them.
At least you are aware, able to protect yourself better.
1 day you will find a person who is good to you and genuinly worth it.
Perhaps if an infant & young child is abvsed, their developing brain does not grow the amygdala & hippocampus, bc memory & empathy are a handicap if you need to survive.
MM used to describe herself as white - it's on her Californian Drivers License - she only referred herself to black when she started seeing Harry also around that time there was social currency in identifying that way
Prove your claim.
She changes to whatever will benefit her at the time.
Brilliant! Thanks for such a clear, on-point analysis. It summarizes everything I have learnt about narcissism to this day. Spot on on the 3 profiles, it's EXACTLY that.
There are several different types of NPD. This ‘expert’ describes just one type as if it’s the only type. Tbh I’ve been seeing him pushed as an expert for a while now. He says a lot of contradictory things and a lot of his personal opinions he presents as facts. He’s no a qualified psychologist. He’s a self-styled life coach and guru who sells books, seminars and the like. And quite frankly, something about him just doesn’t sit right with me. People need to be careful promoting him as an expert when some of his messages are actually quite toxic.
Maybe he is just a narcissist himself 😳
Yes I totally agree! Plus he’s claimed to have found himself romantically attached to female narcissists in the last few years. So he’s attracted to them on the one hand yet claims to be an expert on them on the other. I saw a video where he was processing his internal drama over a recent breakup. It wasn’t pretty. He’s definitely a self titled expert. I don’t dislike him but I agree RUclips creators need to stop labeling people as experts who are not.
If the expert cannot see that JP is a good man then there is definitely something off about him. If anyone is the narc it's the expert because he can't recognise an empath.
@@sarahwagland1559 I don't think he said, that he wasn't a good man. "Just" that he had some flaws. I would like to know, if he has any proof of the ritalin claim, and maybe I will end up listening to the JP/Dawkins thing, just to compare my viewe with his.. Dawkins is good in many ways, but has some flaws to, that I can't recall what are, but that makes me not be that big a fan.
He is a con artist
This multi millionaire middle aged couple, one who was born a prince, and one who married into 'extra ordinarily privilege' with wealth and access to money beyond anything normal people can imagine, making themselves out to be victims is beyond ridiculous.
Middletons?
Middleton's worked hard they were working as pilots and then started there own delivery bussiness which became very successful. Also trained there kids very good. So Middleton's are also considered aristocratic but they have build this all on their own. Kate has also worked very hard,and to this day she is, it's not easy to be a mother of 3 have a job which has no boundaries and also be a supporter to her husband and still look so flawless
@@rationalist1707 Nah.
@@dragosapina5692 blahhh
@irumnaaz324 you don't know much about them, do you. Kate has never worked in her life. She's famous for her aversion to work and even the dead queen - not exactly someone acquainted with hard work herself- ridiculed Kate for her laziness with the nickname Duchess Doolittle. The Middletons are social climbers, it seems, who just declared bankruptcy and left the taxpayer and the business who continued to work with them in good faith to meet the debts they accrued in persuit of their private interests. They aren't very admirable people, really, but to claim Kate is a hard worker- or even a worker - is laughable.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF THEM. WHEN HOLLYWOOD
IS THE EXAMPLE OF SUCCESS, IT DOESN'T HELP A YOUNG MIND. MANY TEACHERS SUFFER FROM THIS, AND THEY AFFECT SO MANY.
I have been feeling for a while that I'm not comfortable with the idea that being raised in an abusive environment makes us "comfortable" in those environments.
I was never comfortable in the abusive environment, even as a child. I knew it was wrong. I just didn't have any information, examples or practice in how to replace the abuse with something more positive.
I wanted a change but just didn't know how.
And I accidentally carried the negative patterns through to adulthood (to my own confusion and horror) because I never learned some basic things about being human and wasn't able to replace the old (emotional relational) system.
People become comfortable with discomfort. A guy might have been tortured with physical abuse as a child, but is still far more likely to abuse his children than otherwise.
@@DeCapitanOG perfectly true. Men partners who had been abused by a parent, take it out on their children. Out of fear, children don't react. In their sick minds it becomes like: " okaaaay, so what my own father did to me wasn't that bad. After all my kid is still breathing". It is their twisted way to come to terms with their injuries.
Thanks for saying this. So true!
I was with a narcissist for 6 years. U cant help a narcissist. Its very rare , they mimic feelings but they dont really feel . Not like we do
They aren't that rare.
tru. I met this narcissist and he would mimic me. Just being near him should have been a crime he was so abusive.
I'm politicallly independent (feel like this is important to say) and Jordan Peterson is so NOT a narcissist. I can name so many reasons but the first that comes to mind is that if he were one he would have already sought the approval of "the beautiful people" of Hollywood and hes done the opposite. Hes not manipulative. I've actually follwed him and read the many things hes written. Hes actually brave and brilliant and 100% sensitive to humanity.
Peterson is a textbook narcissist.
@@WendyWatersctmm you not liking someone doesn't make them a narcissist.
@@Samahra01 Likewise Samahra you liking Peterson doesn't make him sane.
@@WendyWatersctmm you're right, it doesn't! It's the person's behavior/actions...and even then I'm not a doctor. However it is NOT based on whether or not we like their politics!
Yeah, when Saw the title, suggesting that Jordan Peterson is a narcissist, I thought perhaps it was just mis-written. I DEFINITELY do NOT see any narcissist behavior in him.
Am I dreadful for being a bit 'in love' with Andrew Gold? I mean, what a lovely, humble, intelligent fellow!
I love it when Andrew and Richard laugh together. It really cheered me up! ❤
Ridiculous to put Peterson among the other two.
Jordan Peterson says that his truth is how he feels about his own truth. And says he doesn’t know if he is right’.
I generally agree with this notion, as a truth seeker myself. Also a psychotherapist, does not mean we are narcissistic. More like looking inwards.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who has watched videos of JP and MM would find any similarities between them
Jordan Peterson is is honest and deeply connected to a moral mindset of himself
Honestly, I am quite shocked how an 'expert' talks in quite strong terms about other people's diagnoses without knowing them personally and without acknowledging that he only perceives them through media. I think this is extremely unprofessional and as a host, you should have questioned him on this issue
Which of the three people mentioned in the video are you a fan of, and feel was unfairly treated?
Was it Dr. Jordan Peterson?
@@Steelmage99 I am not a fan of any of those people, especially not Mr. Peterson. I have political opinions on those people just like most people do, but they are irrelevant here. However I don't have or publicly share opinions on their mental health, because I don't know anything about these people outside of what I see in the media. I am not a mental health professional, but the ones I know usually don't comment on the mental health of people they've never spoken to and that's what my criticism is about
@@LH9479 OK.
Then I unfairly saddled you with an unjustified position. I apologize.
I retract my statement, and any implication that statement have had.
Have a good day.
@L.Bärenzahn yes, mental health professionals do discuss these things all the time. The reason they can say it at all on shows like these is that they see these people with these issues all day, every day, so it's obvious and comes with experience. For example, someone like MM who is showing so many of her traits when talking as herself rather than as an actress, is easier to spot than someone who isn't, eg Tom Cruise, who never let's the mask slip now.
Oh come on…it is plainly obvious she is a mid range narcissist..classic
The delusional nature of this disorder is something essential that many don’t get… particularly the narcissistic person themselves.
Being raised by a narcissistic mother and an alcoholic borderline personality father I definitely end up being attracted to people with those traits even combined.
Now that I’m entering my 50s I decided that I’m not able to stick to my boundaries and therefore I’m better off on my own. It’s quite drastic but for the sake of my wellbeing I must remain single at least until I’m able to make better choices. The pattern I keep repeating is that when my alarm bells go off instead of addressing it I end up dismissing or justifying behaviour that raised the alarm in the first place.
After 12 years of a total nightmare I’m rebuilding my life. I’m lucky my foundations were not destroyed. I do accept my shortcomings as well as my strengths but perhaps when I say that I’m not negotiating who I am any more it’s a bit premature statement.
I do have moments where I feel ashamed and blame myself for staying so long in such a destructive relationship as i honestly don’t understand how something like that could’ve happened to me.
I’m blessed that I don’t hold a grudge, I’m not greedy and I’m overall content with my life. Still I see myself as a bundle of contradictions.
Thank you
Totally relate, I am often too forgiving, and once I form a friendship I really struggle with cutting ties. I always want to think the best of others. I make excuses for behavior and hope the behavior changes. It never does. I am quite sad at the prospect of giving up on Love, but I do Love peace and the absence of argument.
Great guest. Great interview. Great interviewer. This is information many of us need to hear. Thank you, Andrew!
There is one narcissist and one victim or target in a marriage or relationship. The Narc will tell you that you are the narcissist, and that would be projection, blaming, lying, accusing and gaslighting your significant other.
This man is lovely. Warm, funny, handsome, and very knowledgeable. But in a down to earth way. 😊❤❤❤❤❤janet uk I'm not in a tribe. I'm a lone wolf. After years of being manipulated and bullied at work. I'm retired and FREE FREE FREE ITS BLISS. I have my crafts, cats, RUclips. And can stand and stare at trees. Nature is my friend. ❤😊