The Discipline Priest Issue
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- Опубликовано: 31 янв 2024
- Discipline is a fantastic spec! And I would argue its easily one of my favorites! But its issues are a massive barrier to entry to higher level keys. But MDI style pre-made teams will regard it as one of the best. Why is that? And is there any solution?
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I'm 3340 disc, and I prefer pugging on my freaking resto shaman.
I can GUARANTEE that I can stop important casts alone, it makes such a difference when playing with some pugs.
Im so late to this post, but I feel this 100%. Monk has been so strong since they gave us our kick in the tree. Being able to control so many casts before you need someone to help is one huge factor I don't think enough people pay attention to.
I really love doing keys on my Disc Priest, however you are 💯 in this video calling out the issues. Pugs are so used to taking tons of unnecessary damage & Disc can simply fall behind. I also want to identify how overpowered the ability to cast PI on a DPS & still get my PI. In addition, mass dispell is still amazing even with the longer CD. Pugs don't do anything to adjust during bursting week & will melt their own faces with bursting stacks. Just like restoration shaman has a unfair advantage on inflicted weeks, priests have a massive advantage on bursting weeks which just so happen to be the best push weeks.
Evoker has a huge advantage in Bursting too if you use your stasis for a Mass Dispell :)
@@tobiyt3414 they need to change 30y --> 40y on eveoker!
As a tank main this was really enlightening, I kept blaming myself or thinking it was a new Disc when they just felt like they couldn't keep up with what was going out and I was having to toss out more Word of Glory casts and almost keeping up with them through that and self healing.
Also if you can, track radiance and mindbender/shadowfeind. That will tell you the relative gas in the tank at a given moment! I’m happy to hear it was enlightening, not a lot of tanks express that so I’m thrilled to have helped!
Something like this is probably also going through everyone else's heads too. Imagine the pain the priest is enduring when the group isn't helping out as much as you are! Thanks for being a team player. Prot pallies are awesome.
I wish I knew this when I picked disc to be my first healer, it feels impossible to heal sometimes when pugs are making mistakes. For the longest time I thought it was usually my fault but now I'm playing mw monk and the game just feels so much easier to play it's insane
Playing disc is either super chill and fun or an exercise in patience as you just want the dungeon to be over. 100% depends on the team.
I love disc too much to drop it XD this video is so true to form, the disc priest struggle is real
Love this video - I have gotten all healers to 2.5k this expansion at various points and above (Holy/Disc on my main and have pushed to 3k as both specs playing very casually). When I'm playing with friends and organized group, I roll Disc. It's great and it's easy and I'm very familiar and comfortable with it. When I'm in a PUG, I'd pretty much rather be playing any other healer because too much unpredictable damage destroys my ability to set up properly and heal/damage. I pug holy mostly because it literally has the opposite strengths to Disc. I'm glad that priests have both specs for this reason, but it does get frustrating when you get rejected from PUGs or judged for playing Holy even though it's for their own good...
Yet oddly when I look at tier lists, the above is almost never brought up.
I was not expecting today to be enlightened on Disc priest by a purple dragon. Good video!
I never knew disc had issues in keys lol 😂
maybe I'm tripping but I feel like having ur shadow add up closer to 100% is the way to play. Like you gotta cast 10ish smites at least between each time u press the shadow add button.
Thats how I play, and it is WAY easier than my pres. To each their own.
That’s the only way to play always be casting smite is the way to go
Disc is great when everything is going great. Disc really sucks when things suck. A direct quote i hear from a lot of people that play disc.
Yeah this is how it is. But in a way it feels like this has always been part of how disc worked. Disc is an amazing healer if you’re able to predict and anticipate and prepare for damage events. In those cases it is (or at least was, especially when it had more powerful absorbs) very almost overpowered.
But if things went wrong, it didn’t have the throughput or ability to save the raid. Even if you pulled the plug on your mana and spammed heals you couldn’t do it. Holy priest could though. Holy priest could pull the plug on its mana and single handedly save a raid by using the kit interactions to pump HPS.
I didn’t mind and actually quite liked that distinction between the specs.
I do feel like there’s room somewhere for disc to have a spell like old binding heal (3 people) that is expensive but strong and maybe procs a radiance (if they don’t want to give us back prayer of healing) that is instant but doesn’t apply atonement. So disc has an option for heavy damage, especially in scenarios where it can’t DPS.
Situationally useful and maybe somewhere on the left side of the tree which is more focused on direct healing than the damage to healing.
@shestewa6581 i like your idea on the aoe burst healing, keep preaching!
if you can heal bursting as disc, then you have truly mastered the spec!
Good video bro
I think you nailed it pretty well. It has many of the same issues as Pres, but even Pres at least has a few options to cast that will top off a mistake w/o you having to giga focus on them - whereas Disc is "here's an extra atonement extension for you...hope you don't mess up again till you're topped because ya bois gotta keep slaming smite or we all die in 15 seconds w/o mindbender...k bye!". Their reactive spot healing is just non-existent; power word life kind of helps but its' just not enough. If PW Life was more like PW Serenity I think it'd fix a lot of their issues, or Pain Sup having some kind of healing amplifier/spot heal associate with it.
DISCIPLINE FOR FUCKING EVER I WILL NEVER GO HOLY!!!!
I stop disc after my PUG miss 3 mandatory kick in 24+ key…
Disc is the perfect healer for a group that play perfectly and PUG is all about mistake (mine too! But most of them are from dps)
I love the theme of disc priest but like you said, the current setup is amazing when everything is going perfectly as its toolkit seems to be made to manage the established mechanics....however, if everything doesn't go perfectly I have 0 leeway in picking up a target without breaking my required rotation to have my CDs ready for mechanics. That's one thing I like about holy priest, it lacks in consistent aoe healing throughput but it has great "oh crap" buttons for single target or even mild aoe.
I played disc last season because it was fun. I stopped playing it this season because feels clunky this season in pugs. I was looking forward to ultimate penance and it was a let down... looks awesome tho
Disc got a lot of hype going into season 3. I was convinced to main it. It felt really good working my way up keys. i got KSM with it ... and then i dropped it. It just does not feel great in pugs or when things go wrong. I've felt much more powerful on RDruid - and ive been playing him when pushing keys instead of Disc.
The problem is resto druid is very boring in raids, otherwise I'd main it because resto druid M+ is so fun with catweaving, but you don't get to catweave at all in raids.
Even if it's harder or slightly less effective, I'd prefer disc priest on the merit alone that my playstyle stays relatively the same in and out of raids; do damage to heal.
@@elained.8240 I don't raid - so that's mainly where my perspective differs from yours.
@@Zorrach17 Yeah, I play both M+ and Raids so my spec needs to be fun in both of them for me to enjoy the class. If you don't raid, Rdruid is like, the bees knees.
Do you not use Ultimate Penitence? That CD rocks, esp for pugs ! Oww sh.. button nr 1 for discipline !!!
I do when I can, but I found the DR was getting me more millage. There were some tyrannical dungeons I needed more resistance on people. I love love love the button, I promise
@@Bowserthehealer I am by far a pro discipline priest. I mostly played shaman, monk and paladin this expansion (as a healer). Evoker was fun, but that 30 yard range needs to go! :P . I started playing this rest as disc, I really enjoy it, the fact some talents are now passives makes it more playable, not easy, but playable. I try to use power word radiance right before big damage.
The 1.3 sec cast time of UP needs to be taken into account, it also has downsides, since you go up (avoiding some dmg), but if something ends up under you during its duration, you can end up dropping in a pool, or as I experienced, during its cast, getting hit by a spider in AD. Resto shaman is still my favourite healer, but that one is hard to beat. This patch though, I mained a tank, vengeance was fun to play.
Last point.... a pandarian priest? :P Mine's Nightborne!
@@jacktihs2963 I don't disagree about UP, but with pugs I wanted more pug safety. Im never against uppies lol its a great move.
But ill fight you on two things. Evoker's 30 yard range is fine, and I have delt with it for a long time with very few issues. Most Evoker's ESP pres players don't position well and Ill stand by that. I think dispel and maybe echo having 40 yards would be fine. As Fyrakk with a small dispel range feels terrible, esp on mythic.
I play races I like because the masc panda's are cuties with a belly. And it just so happens to be BiS for pugging because I get 1 extra stop with quaking palm. I love how much use I get out of the racial, but understand I play a worgen monk because I want a werewolf husband. That wont change unless I'm on tournament realm for a tournament lol
It s my first time healing this season , I m just above 3k rio. I play alone so i have to learn on my own mistakes but it s so difficult : depending to the mates I m grouped with I m either the worst healer ever or an actual god of life. It s so snowbally , in a bad way if gcds are used on mates; and therefore so hard to know if it s my bad that every one dies or not….
I play the crit/shield focused style and just use things like smite/mind blast/etc. as filler spells rather than focusing entirely on dps-to-heal ramps. I really miss Disc from Cata and the current shielding build feels pretty similar to it, albeit missing like 5-10 buttons that it used to have access to.
What is the build? Rn I'm leveling my holy priest and wanting to try disc after learning the dungeons better
Ok so i recently switched to disc for some fun healing and this has been kind of my problem. Pugging with it is absolutely hellish. You either get a group who’s either decent and can dodge most mechanics or everyone fucking sucks and they keep dying over and over and over and you’re just staring at their healthbars going “WHAT DID I DO?? IS THIS NORMAL?? AM I MISSING SOMETHING??????”.
Hilariously enough, I played pres evoker before disc and i was NOT having these issues at all. Sure sometimes i would be annoyed by the lack of an insta-heal with a cd a-la holy shock, insta-vivify, surge, etc. but I felt like I could overall keep everyone up most of the times. With Disc I’m basically going “This is fine” meme the moment I see people starting to get hit by avoidable-s too much.
But hey, Mass Dispel is nice for Bursting.
I think we as healers need to get more comfortable with the reality that we can't always save everyone. People are always going to make mistakes; they're human, therefore flawed. So I try not to beat myself up over someone dying because they took a tick or two in a fire and all my resources were already blown on another problem.
Your team's healthbars are also their own responsibilities, too.
I agree with a lot of your points but for the season 2 tier set bonus they need to adjust it. Either make the “free” radiance charges not actually use your charges of radiance or make them count towards harsh discipline. Because playing with that season 2 set with current disc was rough. Rarely being able to get harsh discipline because the charges don’t count felt real bad when you want to plan a big burst.
Unless you have a coordinated group, why bother with Disc? Holy is in a great spot right now, so why punish everybody in hope that you have a group that knows what they are doing?
Holy’s AOE and lack of DR are the biggest drawbacks. I still prefer it as the instant casts are so valuable but it has a lower ceiling
@@aaronhewitt6312 Holy Nova is fantastic and often within my top 10 heals and top 4 damage. AoE healing is covered easily covered by Sanctify, spread healing with a combination of Renew an Prayer of Mending. DR is overrated, Mistweaver for example is doing just fine with its cocoon.
Well, aoe healing is harder than discs and I know it’s doable as holy and you’re right, holy is easier for pugging and it’s in a dope spot. But I love disc too! And keep in mind people will play a spec because they love it. And hence the struggle. But I don’t back down from a challenge that easily, and wanted to do it for myself! I did hit 3k yesterday ^_^
@thehealer It all just depends on what people are looking for. When I pick a class, I do it because I think the mechanics and themes jive well and the gameplay is fun. Regardless of the state of healing in M+ right now for disc priest, it is a fun spec to play, far moreso to me than Holy. The foundational building blocks of the specialization are rock solid.
For the people who only care about doing things easily, than yeah, stay away from disc priest lol.
@@elained.8240 I couldnt agree more! I main pres still, and no one can tell me how "not worth it" it is because at the end of the day the challenge and the fun of the spec will bring me back every time.
I'm close to 3600 on my VDH and inviting priests to my keys is hella sketch. I have nothing wrong with the design of the spec, but how come are people in pugs above 3600 ditching disc and going holy? It feels like 10 to 20% of disc priests are truly capable of healing something like witches from WCM in a 27 tyrannical or higher. I feel like my group is much safer when I get a MW or resto druid instead.
I've always wanted Disc to do shit dmg and a lot of healing
Id love that, as long as we can make MW stay unique in some way if they go that path. I love this playstyle (and MW), I want this one to be less of a glass pistol, you know?
It would be nice making dmg numbers go down for all healers, so if you want to fistweave you do it because you love it. Or just go ranged if you don't, without the high end m+ content flame
I mean, I like weaving my dps rotation while healing, but it shouldn't really matter that much. The near infinite mana is what allows that I believe. Dps buttons should cost a LOT of mana, so you don't have to spam them so much. I don't know.
I'm a newer player and very new healer.. holy priest.. I'm a ret pal main.. just wanted to get ksm on a healer to prove someone wrong.. anyhow turns out I like HP... Kinda have the goal to learn disc as another f u to someone but also because my duo is good and I want to be able to play both to help. I'll probably try and watch some of your videos before I try it
What add-ons are you using? The UI for your disciple priest game play is so slick
Sorry only seeing this now, I have an interface video where I show it all off. But its a lot of basic UI and mouse over! But the biggest flex of my life is that if you search "Bowser Interface" into Google or RUclips you find it. Although make sure its the most recent one lol.
SO happy you like it!
The problem about barrier is the visual effect. If there is anything you need to dodge like swirly or sanguine, barrier do harm than good. As a disc priest I find it very hard to apply
Your exactly on point on the disc problem. Healing as disc feels like it doesn’t have a tier set bonus . That’s how it felt to me last season before getting the tier . Horrible . I’m playing holy now
I've been climbing in pugs on R Shaman and it's just bewildering to me how easy it's been compared to how my R Druid was. First of all, Afflicted is a free week for Shaman. But the interrupt, knock and AOE stun combo is just ridiculous on trash. Not only is it good on it's own, but it shows the DPS what should be done, it has an IQ ripple effect. Purge is also sleeper.
Wait until R Druid loses their tier set, they're gonna drop down into the dumps.
Ditch Twilight Equilibrium. Very slight power decrease for more freedom in rotation and talents. Problem solved.
I appreciate your input but the amount of healing throughput you lose sucks no matter where you put that point. It’s not an easy thing to fix lol
I'm just trolling I have no idea. Considering rolling a priest lol. But it seems like a lot of the problems with unpredictable pugs could be solved by forgoing some of the top tier efficiency disc stuff for some of the "holy style" stuff like power word heal and prayer of mending for example.
Seems like it would help get back on track in those unpredictable instances right?
I dont understand why in your example of a hectic pug, someone takes a mechanic during your bender, and your instinct is to press flash heal or penance on them. Just keep hitting smite? It will also heal them and farm bender back. It sounds like youre trying so hard to preempt your teammates mistakes that you are making big mistakes of your own. It sounds like you are so worried about some random clueless player flaming you mistakenly that you will preemptively appease them at any cost.
I don’t know exactly how you got this, but no. I don’t think I even mention using single target penance outside of mentioning it’s a worthwhile single target heal which yes sometimes you send not as a damage move but 95% of the time it’s a damage move for aoe. The example I give is to demonstrate how you fall off of your schedule and end up behind. And there are fights and pulls where if I do not clean up health bars a mob will just kill someone. And that’s falling behind can be massively problematic.
You’re right in that you can overthink it and make new problems for yourself too. But I don’t know where you think this is how I play where I can plenty of footage showing how a majority of my pulls go and never once waste penance in any part of my discussion.
@@Bowserthehealer well this is why i said flash heal or penance. Doesnt really matter what the global is, my point is the best solution is often to just keep cycling bender. If they tale another mechanic, thats unfortunate. At least you saved the other players.
i dont think its hard in a pug. its actually pretty simple. no mindbender = deaths xD
i liked season 2 tier set more. Instant Radiance helped with missed kicks in pugs
@@vangueliskThis is a bad take, missed kicks in pugs are one shots when they matter (28+)
@@Gordonfreems I only play up to 18,there it matters for me
@@Gordonfreemsthis was not a serious take
@@daviduk1692exactly just doing rotation I think people are pressing other things like flash heal during mindbender
Looking through this video i do see a lot of things that are just not on the class design or pug environment. You have several talents that are wrong and your talk about divine aegis is also very wrong as divine aegis is more pug friendly and is more healing throughput compared to the 1 blaze point you lose for it. I dont mean this in any toxic way but i think you should consider looking in to icyveins guides or warcraftpriests to get some tips on the class. Just doing the radiance > pet > mindblast>penance>swd rotation correctly would benefit you a ton (Radiance > pet > mindblast >smite > penance > swd if you run TE)
I do this? Not every rotation is perfect I’m aware I’ll mess up but that doesn’t fix the issues I faced in pugs and healing througput. I appreciate the attempt at help but the quality of the group was the biggest factor, the healing on disc in full pugs was always a really tight game the moment mistakes start happening.
Also if you don’t have enough crit you don’t get a ton out of aegis. In fact you get very little and I needed more throughout for pugs. Trust I love that talent and if you have the stats it’s great but that wasn’t saving my runs even when I did get the stats for higher crit.
@@Bowserthehealer The crit % is very very small for aegis to beat adding a point in to Blaze when it comes to pure healing. Like we are talking having 10% crit or less which is basically impossible at this point of the expansion
Talent wise from just what i can see is that you activly play mindgames. That spell is very very bad right now and then Divine star is also just a wasted GCD though its technically a littlebit more dps then Halo but you dont have time to press dstar on cooldown cuz the current tier set and class design makes it a very low prio spell so picking up Halo for more healing and burst Aoe dmg is a lot better.
@@Bowserthehealer You are also playing seedling which is an extremly terrible trinket for disc and just ends up being a healing loss when activated compared to just healing the group (Ofc this can just be cuz of trinket drop RNG) But yeah its almost worse then an intellect dps trinket.