My favourite kind of sprew is "here's 10 torsos, 10 legs, 18 heads, 20 pairs of arms and a bunch of random bullshit, they're all interchangable, go nuts." Most fun i had building minis was with the old guard command squad. I made some fantastic characters for my army with that. My company commander had a huge cape from the sniper arms. I also used it to give almost every guardsman with a plasma gun some kind of broken arm, bandage or robot arm. And I made one guy throwing a grenade with about 10 other grenades hanging off him.
Frostgrave, Stargrave, Oathmark, Death fields... Also interchangable between boxes. Frostgrave wizards 1 (male) and 2 (female) have 20 different heads, some 30 different arms and 4 bodies per sprue (2 sprues in a box)
The Space Wolves Wolf Pack is very much like that. Loads of different weapons, heads, shoulder pads, etc (including some for the scout kit of the time) and cross compatible with the Codex Space Marine and even Chaos Space Marine kits! With that kind of versatility I made sure each Grey Hunter, Blood Claw, Long Fang and Wolf Guard looked unique.
This, absolutely. The good ol' Space Marines Tactical Squads and their Space Wolves counterparts are the pinnacle in options and "do as thou wilt". This modern rather monopose stuff is not up to snuff. Fenrys Hjolda! 🐺
@@GermanNightmare1976 Rose-tinted past in my opinion. If you actually look at a squad of old tactical marines they all look almost identical, and if you pose them any differently they look really goofy and wrong.
@@ori-yorudan Possibly so. But those are "my" Space Marines and I prefer them to the newer stuff. Mind you, I started out with the metal minis and some RT1, so anything with more posability was and still is a huge thing for me. To each their own. I just feel that the newer Primaris are the goofy ones, to borrow your term. And yes, some of the older ones do look derpy if the arms are posed just a wee bit off. (/spelling)
What about those valiant and persistent souls who *only* collect and play Oldhammer? Some of their armies are nearly 50 years old! Something 20 years old is just nostalgic.
@@MaskedPwnzorzJay actually articulated some things I feel about the old kits that I wanted to put in my vid but struggled to put to words. Building old kits just feels different, like I’m building a tactical squad and catachan command squad and it’s been really fun
@@KrakDuk 2 things: 1 totally agree I have the ogre spearhead and I’m glad Jay is explaining all this because it’s going to help me build it lol. 2 love both you and Jays videos. Subed to you both can’t wait for your deathwatch video!
The way they did the Ogres back then is how I wish they did Primaris now. A sprue that contains nothing but Primaris torsos, legs, backpacks, heads and miscellanea (Purity seals, pouches, grenades, etc). And use different sprues for weapons and arms options. Much better than making monopose Marines for every single squad choice, which can't be kitbashed because nothing ever lines up.
The way GW produced space marine figures from 3rd addition on is how they should still be doing them today, I 100% agree with you. They should come as a kit with separate heads, torsos, legs and arms and with extra bits and options, mono-pose is okay for a starter set or for the youngbloods first getting into the game, but GW isn't considering those with modeling skills and who don't want their space marines to look *exactly* like the eight other guys' space marine army who showed up at the gaming hall. That is lame.
Considering that GW's main expense is the electricity to melt plastic 24/7, with two models per sprue, the price of the hobby would just explode. The steps taken for sprue efficiency, monopose being one of them, are absolutely in your best interest. Spend your time and money on becoming a greenstuff virtuoso instead.
@@maxbrandt6 Except in reality, the poses for the guys were almost all the same. Theres more variation now in pose and stances then in the past with tactical marines (especially with anyone holding a gun)
Have you ever looked at the intercessor box? They can be just legs and torsos with any weapon you wanna attach to them, primaris or not, plastic or resin.
The Chapterhouse lawsuit spurned a lot of these changes, as did the rise of 3D printing. In 40k and AOS, their most popular games, models are harder and more complicated to build than they were 20 years ago. 20 years ago, the entire plastic ranges of Orks in 40k and then Warhammer Fantasy were swappable. All Space Marines and Chaos Marines had the same 9ish plastic parts and each of them were interchangeable with one another. In my opinion, models of that era, while certainly lower in detail than today's models, were so much more fun to hobby on. Progress, from building to painting, was so much faster. And, because you had so much interchangeable parts, armies felt so much more unique and distinct.
the thing i've found going from 3rd edition 40k to 10th (i didn't play 4th - 9th, didn't collect, didn't look at, bought a couple novels but that's it) is that there was a bit more casual freedom with the old models, pretty much everything now is "build it this way, or you'll have to cut, and sand, and putty your way to unique poses." like i remember being able to set up space marines and orks in just any old pose arms were lose torsos on a swivel etc, and now as a build votann and new ork kits .... they're all like "do it exactly this way" theres not a lot of freedom of choice unless you want to cut and sand and putty and glue, and kitbash, your way into unique models.
I'm the exact same. I did play a year of 4th before taking a hiatus. The monopose models make it hard and turn you have like squads of 6 and so you often have duplicate models.
That's pretty much how the original warhammer worked, it was the introduction of plastic models that changed it. With exception of things like terminator s or the first mk6 marine plastics, even early plastics in other games like spacehulk were very limited.
I think the new Skaven Clanrats are incredible for what they are. TWENTY models to a single big sprue, each with unique and dynamic poses, two can be built as a leader, two can be a musician, two can be a banner bearer. It really is so neat in what they accomplished.
I had a metal 6th edition Empire Helblaster Volleygun, when I was 9, it didn't even have a picture cause it was a blister, the army book had one picture from an awkward angle and I had no fecking idea... I still have it though, did a good job evidently.
Consider the ogre Blood Bowl team for more dynamic ogres. My favourite sets are Frostgrave/Oathmark/Stargrave sets, easy to pose, lots of female minis and you can (almost) freely mix and match bodies, arms and heads between sets
I've only ever experienced painting newer models due to joining the hobby around 2 years ago, but I still love newer sculpts (just not the monopose bits)
You might have painted some incredibly old models without knowing it to be fair! The spearhead box Jay bought is "new" but the kits inside are 20 years old, you can check the dates on the spru themselves but things like Aeldari and fantasy stuff in particular can be in new boxes but with super old sculpts.
Other model makers are still making fun kits like this - kitbashing with a lot of the Frostgrave kits are super modular and I've had so much putting them together.
Freeguild Cavaliers are an excellent example of modern modular kit and it gave me huge amount of happiness to put it together - I think you would love it
Always love the enthusiasm you have using your creativity to "fix" models and really make them your own. I love the building aspect of Warhammer and followed your basing videos and really really love what I've been able to create as a result. From watching your videos like these, where you have to mold and adjust on the fly, or ones where you come up with a new paint scheme - I've finally left the "paint paralysis" stage and have started to shed the fears of starting out painting. Keep up the great content Jay and Nick!
Thanks so much for drawing attention to Ogres as an Ogres army collector it's really good to see them getting recognition I love the kits I'd love for the army to be better supported than it is
I recently put together 2k points of Custodians at the same time. Its very liberating having a ton of extra bits to work with at any given time, but the kits have to be able to facilitate it. Having bits from 15 guard, 5 wardens, and 2 blade champions let me make some cool dual wielding guys, and every model got a unique pose. Way more interesting poses than the box suggests. For other factions or model kits that are monopose you're hooped without doing a lot of extra work.
Ogres are made like that not only because of sprue limitation you mentioned. They are also from good old Warhammer times, when each mini had to fit neatly in rows of figures. That's why they are very "squished" and centered on the base, compared to new minis that have lot's of bit's sticking outside the base. Looking through the comments it really shows when someone started the hobby... Man I'm old. I remember that it was totally normal, that instructions were only suggestion (if they were any to begin with) and you got only several variants of the figure and then bunch of bits to make them different or convert them. Honestly I prefer that over new GW miniatures. New minis are gorgeous, but often over detailed and monopose. Old ones were simpler, but generally offered more flexibility, and because of amount of bits on the sprue, you could make them as simple or as detailed as you wanted. I would love to see old kits (like Bretonnia Man-at-arms, Empire state troops etc.) resculpted by current GW, to give them more crisp, current look, but at the same time be modular like old ones.
As someone who just finished 72 men at arms and then assembled one of the new killteams, I would much prefer if the rank and file stuff stayed simple and didn’t have the newer level of monopose complexity
I understand the joy of what you're saying! The Chaos Spawn kit is similarly ancient, but it has so, so many bits, and with the way those dull holes are made, there's so much room for creativity. It took sketching out monster designs and greenstuff work, but it was some of the most fun I've had with a kit.
The old start collecting box was amazing because all the ogres are sitting on animals and all the parts are modular so with these 2 kits you essentally have infinite build options for 5 models. A bunch of fun weapons like giant crossbows, pistols etc. Really some of the most fun GW kits to build period.
I frequently dive into these classic Ogre sprues to customize my Kroot. The gut-plates in particular are super easy to repurpose into pauldrons for Krootox. The snack meat hooks are seamless additions as well.
Short answer: No Having built both sculpts of plastic Termagants, Hormagaunts and Genestealers, it's night and day in terms of quality. Less wasted plastic and much better posing as well.
Something to remember about the pre 2010 models is that GW focus was make them different with paint, I started building GW models back in the 90's and the model repeat was even worse, so many White Dwarf magazines had articles on how to make your army stand out with modifications or just different paint choices.
I believe these like a lot of the 2000's era kits were a hybrid of conventional and digital sculpting. For instance using a physical sculpt for the initial model then using digital tools to split it into assemblies. It is before the digital sprue optimization. I wouldn't think of it as "we are allowed x number of sprues" so much as how do we break this sculpt so that it casts well based off experience. One of the big changes in the more recent era is the ability to digitally simulate how the casting will behave as opposed to going off best guess from prior experience.
i agree with you, i found the modern kits since primaris space marines does reduce the creativity side of the hobby; just because everything fits well, arm swap and leg swap become harder. mono post is understandable when it is metal cast, but if the material is plastic, GW really should play to the strength and give the flexibility and enable the creativity in the hobby.
I feel like they're taking the wrong track with what thet manufacture. 3d printing is getting bigger, and it's not going anywhere. Resin is great for creating fine detail, but it's difficult to work with (especially UV resin, which is harder and more brittle than the resin typically used for casting). Manufacturing is also... well you can do it at home, if you have the right kind of space for it. The advantage of plastic is basically all about workability and kitbashing, but GW have been in the business of carefully-sliced little sculptures for a while now. They're doing resin stuff with plastic instead of leaning into the benefits of plastic.
I think some part of the appeal of the warhammer fantasy models come from the simplicity of the minis. They aren't as detailed as the new ones, but they do give a feeling of unity, something very satisfying to the eyes. You wouldn't really notice their similarity as a problem. Although the newer models are works of art in terms of scuplting, they are sometimes a pain to paint because no models are the same. It also makes the duplicates very noticeable because they stand apart of the others so much. I'm currently working my way through skaventide and those clan rats are so unique it's daunting and mentally tiring to paint them all because you can't paint them in one big session. Both eras have merits, but i kinda lean towards the simplicity and uniformity of older models visually, especially when they give you more creative freedom.
You have to keep in mind that 20 years ago these models were used in Warhammer fantasy battle, and all the models had to rank up on 40mm square bases. This puts a lot of constraints on the designed poses.
As for sprue density, you would think they would not have been wasteful if they could have done better. Perhaps there was a technology limit 20 years ago?
I feel that it varies from kit to kit. Some AoS I've noticed are bare bones while some from 40K are packed full of options. the Chaos Termies are like 10 or 12 years old but have so much to them without looking squaty or overtly old. They are so fun to build since every piece is built similarly too. It's like a circle with two points as a point to glue. They're fixed points but they have so much variety to pose with. Same with Raptors, they're fun to build.
Good to see this, as I just scored a box of Gluttons to convert into orgyns using my extra bits, as the Gluttons box is half the price of the ogryn box
@@Coraxery Then it's time for "Fixing the original Space Marine poster boys" - whatever he doesn't like about them can probably be zhuzhed away, right?
The basic posing on the ogors was because they released in FB and they had to fit into a unit on the square bases so they couldn't do cool dynamic poses because models would've caught on each other and been a pain in the arse to move
I used to play faba and remember Ogres being introduced in a White Dwarf just when I was quitting the hobby. I’d say the models have stood the test of time quite nicely! As a space marine collector, I don’t get the nostalgia a lot of folks have for the old Tactical squad (in terms of models). They were all the same half squat dude holding a bolter against their chest. Yes converting primaris takes more work and experience, but overall the models are just miles better.
The bretonnia men at arms and peasant bow men are amazing old kits that hold up today. In a box you get 8 different body's with a bunch of different arm options that are easy to put together. Also the arms can easily be posed. You should check out those kits if you like the ogres.
I only just now started to think about collecting and kit bashing and doing all this stuff, your channel, and probably two other channels, including my significant other, giving me a couple miniature bug bears as sparked my interest in making miniatures
I've built a sylvaneth battleforce no so long ago, and was really surprised how different are those dryads from all the other models. it was a pain in the butt to clean all those moldlines but you can make a ton of unique models with 4 body options only. building all this stuff was tricky, but really fun
huh? what are you talking about did you miss the years 2010 to 2024. Pretty sure they happened or I would be a lot less beat up in my thirties as opposed to my fifties
Yeah i think GW know they fucked up on that one which is why they are still selling the old kit. The old kit is just better in every way. The new monopose kit is awful.
Wow, twenty years old. No wonder _eBay Miniature Rescues_ was able to assemble so many factions from his collection. It was so fun to see the enthusiasm that helps motivate us effecting him too.
Thats what i prefer on the older kits. Yes they have les detail, and not that cool poses. But with flat joins between the bottem and body, and to the arms. You can make al models a little different with giving them a different pose. The best example for this are the space marines. Al space marines are the same construction, that give you the option to mix the bits from the tactical, davestator, assault squat, sternguard, vanquard veterans, bikes and caption with each other. To give you so many options. Instead of that you have between 5 and 20 cool unique models in poser positions, repeating and repeating in youre units
I'm loving these AoS videos, I hope you'll be painting some AoS spearhead armies. I wish to see all Death Spearhead armies be painted by you and your style.
There is a charm that old miniatures have, especially the hand sculpted metal ones. Second edition plastic Tyranid Warriors look dopey but are snazzy in my opinion, and they're creeping on 30 years old. If you have a PO box, I will send you them
Something I really like is how the sister's do their penitent engines - with the ball joint that has a peg to "lock in" a specific pose on the leg. Sand off the peg, the model is now much harder to construct and glue but you have a lot more freedom. I hope that sort of design philosophy ends up in more GW kits .
2 examples of a good middle-ground that I really enjoy are the crisis suits and the fire warriors. For the Crisis suits they have ball joints (obviously why such things are easier to do for robotic/artificial things of course) that have little nubs for a basic pose to make it easier for beginners, but it also explicitly states that you have nip off the nub to have free movement and poseability for that arms, legs, head and torso. Then for the fire warriors, they can't do that of course because they're a biological units, so instead there's a bunch of legs but they end in a flat surface, and the same is true for the bottom of the torso and the shoulders and the arms. So you get a bunch of leg options, to a poseable torso, to a bunch of different poseable arm options that can either be paired up to hold the gun two-handed or be seperate to hold tools, grenades, etc. And even past that the weapons are also on the sprue entirely seperately so you can glue them on other places. This to me seems like the best balance between hiding seams and poseability, both for artificial and organic units.
I was thinking along those like throughout the entire video. I had no idea how lucky I got with collecting tau until i saw the instructions for primaries marines 😅
When I put together my Thousand Sons Exalted Sorcerers and Rubric Marines, I loved how much customization I could do. I actually bought two exlated sorcerer boxes just because they came with so many cool bits I could use to add flavor to my sorcerers and make them all different. Then I got the Infernal Master, and it was just a single mono box kit. I wouldn't ever want two of them because, while it's a great sculpt, I can't do anything with it.
I bought the Skaven last month from Skaventide, didn't realize it was all push to fit, next to nothing was interchangeable. I have waited for years for new Skaven and I have not been let down this hard in a long time in the hobby. I was absolutely bored and uninspired putting them together. Killed my motivation for Warhammer before it even got a chance to start. Back to Bolt Action I go.
I’m currently working on the Ogor spearhead box and choosing to do nmm was a choice I regret. I’ve also started putting together and fixing some chaos warriors I’ve had since 98 and honestly it might just be that I’m ancient but I love the old kits with all their personality.
Honestly, I’m 50/50 with old sprues. I remember looking at the Ogre sprues on the website and thinking they weren’t to bad, after getting the Spearhead box earlier this mouth I agree with you they take more time then you would think. Nearly every piece had horrible mold-lines and there was more required pieces then you would think (Why did the soles of their shoes need to be separate pieces?). Worked on them two models at a time (Gluttons and Leadbelchers) or in pieces ( Mournfang and Ironblaster). The arms were fickle at times, use to little glue and they fall off. Had to leave the model alone for a few minutes for the glue to dry. Don’t get me wrong they were more a hassle then I thought, but looking at them put together I can’t help be happy with them. Already planed out the next three add-ons to the army, plus they didn’t give me the same headache working on my Beastman models did (love them just wish the pieces were numbered like on modern sprues). The models maybe old, but seeing my Leadbelchers sit next to my new Liberators models it’s hard to really notice the age gab of the two. They’re simple but they’re the kind of simple that ages well. Sorry for the small tangent, but great video Jay, couldn’t agree more that old sprues have a charm to them!
So, on the topic of instructions that don't say much. Some time ago I was working on great swords. The left and right hands hold their sword tip. There are probably 10 of them to choose from, each from a slightly different angle. And the instructions won't tell you which left goes with which right. So I ended up having to do some transplants later. On the bright side, I had a lot of leftovers from this.
The new kroot are great in the same way. All the arms and heads are interchangeable between the hqs, rampagers and carnivores so you can get a lot of cool poses super easily
When I built my ogre army I used a thin sprue glue filler to fill the arms and neck,finished at 80 lads on foot,plus most of the metal,a slave giant and scrap launcher, one of the cannons and two of the mammoth things plus 10 rhinos riders,fun to stomp with.
I've been painting the whole lot of seraphon, and my most recent gripe along the same line was painting the new warriors and painting tehenhauin from Fantasy at the same time. The details scaling on the new models are so tiny in comparison to the model from 2004. The eyes on the warriors are literal pin points and smaller than skink eyes. The spears are nearly half the thickness of old Warrior models. It's almost like they rendered them bigger and then scaled them down to the right size, which made some details incredibly small.
Don’t forget those ogre minis were originally made for WHFB so required to rank up which limits how dynamic they can be, ranked up units also look better if posed more alike
Hit the nail on the head there was something to the older models a little less freedom made you get creative fast to avoid burnout I built and painted 120 skeleton warriors of the old warhammer fantasy box before their refresh in cursed city and while I totally love the new box I can say that my original skellies had so much more personality not to mention the mountain of bits I was left with from those kits
As someone who assembled and painted ten resin Vespid Stingwings earlier this year, and has now seen the new plastic models they showed off this weekend, I find the question in the title somewhat comical. Not a fair comparison on materials, but even just the sculpts is night and day, which is of course what you should expect with 20 years of both artistic and technological advancements.
5:51 I did a similar thing for a bunch of Skitarii. I got like 20 Skitarii New On Sprue a while ago and wanted to convert them into a Solar Auxilia LasRifle Blob of 20. Snipped the legs&torso bits off and even with hours&hours of trying to organize them with the help of the instructions I build the Sergeant&a few others and just kept putting off the rest because it was such a nightmare to figure out which upper body halves fit together, which pair of legs went to which upper body&which left arm went to which gun. I traded them away around a year after I first had the idea to convert them into Solar Auxilia.
I am currently assembling a chaos knights army for tow with a mix of old and new models. Different design philosophies, but they look very nice when put together... Although, not in the same unit. Some are more like a unstoppable marching force, the others are more like an elite savage army.
Brother, I've been building Warhammer since like 1993. I've had myshare of hacking up plastic to make each one as individual as possible so I can definitely relate.
There is also something about a more basic pose that looks better repeated then the much more dynamic poses of current day. Don't get me wrong, I love how dynamic the GW poses are nowadays, but it's also much easier to spot repeated poses when they are so different to each other.
First kit I built was the Ork Kommandos a brand new kit, second kit was Flash Gitz, it was a nightmare took me a whole day to put together full of mold lines and gaps etc.
I find the spews are a lot more accessible in the older models, you can build the kits just by reading the sprew, the pieces may need more clean up, but the pieces are easier to modify, and play with.
I prefer the older sprues those made sense. You didn't need an assembly guide. In general miniatures have 2 legs 2 arms a torso and a head, anything else was up to your imagination, and if you wanted to make your own conversions it was pretty easy to make (for example i used empire, undead and beastmen sprues for my Sylvania themed Empire army). Nowadays most of the times you need to use the assembly guide (worst one i encountered so far is the Kinhai harpies for the daughters of khaine), and most of the time it is still not clear how the different bitz fit together, and all you get is the same poses as on the box art. If you want to make your own conversions, you pretty much have to assemble the miniature how it was supposed to be than, cut it apart to do the conversion. That is one unnecessary step. I got some of those Oger riders (got that cannon and the stonebull, but used the beasts for different builds) and converted them into river trolls. Also one huge problem i have with new sprues is that the attatchment to the sprue is on some weird places, where the whole bitz is under pressure, and the moment you try to cut it of the sprue, something snaps, and the bitz is broken. Older sprues had more flesh and mold lines though. Older sprues are better for conversions, in my opinion, but need more work cleaning (flesh, moldlines). Newer sprues have more details, easier to clean, but it happens a lot more often that bitz break when you try to cut them from the sprue.
I just finished assembling my Gorgers, a unit I was dreaming about for the past 20 years and I gotta say: I love ogres how they are, but there were some old models that DESPERATELY needed an update. The new Gorgers are beautiful and I can't wait for the yetis to get their chance of a re-do. (The maneaters too... the ninja ogre was beautiful but I don't trust the flying kick gnoblar either in metal or GW resin)
It is worth noting that the older AOS kits are from Warhammer Fantasy. As such they were designed to work with square bases in formation. That is why the posing of the Gluttons is so limited.
I think that is one of the biggest downsides to modern AOS models. Yes, they look absolutely divine, but good luck getting more than one pose out of them.
I’m about to try putting together some plague priests from the skaven, and they are still the old Warhammer fantasy battles kit. So I’m going to experience this exact thing…. But in a multiplayer of 20.
The Tyrant sprue was much newer than the others, hence the monopose model - it replaced the metal tyrant model which came with optional heads and arms/weapons
I collected Ogre Kingdoms in 2004 as a 14 year old and I loved them! Dug them out of my parents attic recently and they look rough 😂. Still love them though. ❤
the old kits may be simpler, but are so much nicer for kitbashing and customization. you cant barely do anything with the way parts are cut in new models. its near impossible to ever use arm A on body B now. i guess with less and less wysiwyg alongside fewer options its not as important now. some of the new kits are really bad for having just identical models one you have 2 boxes, even though each individual model is some super unique look. i think that super unique pose actually makes duplicates more obvious.
Old models had some great sculpts but the truly customizable ones were tough to make look great. The newer ones are easier to get right but the customization is tougher to do. The Sisters of Battle kit is the perfect in between and should be the standard for the new kits.
I prefer the old sprues. "Here are a bunch of parts, do whatever you like". And you can mix and match different creatures together. The legs of a goblin, the torso of a dwarf, some imperial parts, and you have an army of halflings.
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My favourite kind of sprew is "here's 10 torsos, 10 legs, 18 heads, 20 pairs of arms and a bunch of random bullshit, they're all interchangable, go nuts."
Most fun i had building minis was with the old guard command squad. I made some fantastic characters for my army with that. My company commander had a huge cape from the sniper arms. I also used it to give almost every guardsman with a plasma gun some kind of broken arm, bandage or robot arm. And I made one guy throwing a grenade with about 10 other grenades hanging off him.
Frostgrave, Stargrave, Oathmark, Death fields... Also interchangable between boxes.
Frostgrave wizards 1 (male) and 2 (female) have 20 different heads, some 30 different arms and 4 bodies per sprue (2 sprues in a box)
The Space Wolves Wolf Pack is very much like that. Loads of different weapons, heads, shoulder pads, etc (including some for the scout kit of the time) and cross compatible with the Codex Space Marine and even Chaos Space Marine kits! With that kind of versatility I made sure each Grey Hunter, Blood Claw, Long Fang and Wolf Guard looked unique.
This, absolutely. The good ol' Space Marines Tactical Squads and their Space Wolves counterparts are the pinnacle in options and "do as thou wilt".
This modern rather monopose stuff is not up to snuff.
Fenrys Hjolda! 🐺
@@GermanNightmare1976 Rose-tinted past in my opinion. If you actually look at a squad of old tactical marines they all look almost identical, and if you pose them any differently they look really goofy and wrong.
@@ori-yorudan Possibly so. But those are "my" Space Marines and I prefer them to the newer stuff.
Mind you, I started out with the metal minis and some RT1, so anything with more posability was and still is a huge thing for me.
To each their own. I just feel that the newer Primaris are the goofy ones, to borrow your term.
And yes, some of the older ones do look derpy if the arms are posed just a wee bit off. (/spelling)
Jay… don’t say models are 20 years old and then say they came out in 2004… I don’t need that kind of negativity in my life!!!
I still remember when I was back in school at the time and they had their White Dwarf preview debut... Ancient history, really =/
It seems like only yesterday, doesn't it! 😥
What about those valiant and persistent souls who *only* collect and play Oldhammer? Some of their armies are nearly 50 years old! Something 20 years old is just nostalgic.
Lol i was only 1 back in 2004
OOOOoooOooo I was born in 2004 oooooOooooo
Yes. Also here before Jay fixes “where GW models better”😏
It's a geological matter.
This video instantly made me think of your “heroic scale” video
GW models 20years ago where some of the best, if not the best GW models in the galaxy.
@@MaskedPwnzorzJay actually articulated some things I feel about the old kits that I wanted to put in my vid but struggled to put to words. Building old kits just feels different, like I’m building a tactical squad and catachan command squad and it’s been really fun
@@KrakDuk 2 things: 1 totally agree I have the ogre spearhead and I’m glad Jay is explaining all this because it’s going to help me build it lol. 2 love both you and Jays videos. Subed to you both can’t wait for your deathwatch video!
The way they did the Ogres back then is how I wish they did Primaris now.
A sprue that contains nothing but Primaris torsos, legs, backpacks, heads and miscellanea (Purity seals, pouches, grenades, etc). And use different sprues for weapons and arms options.
Much better than making monopose Marines for every single squad choice, which can't be kitbashed because nothing ever lines up.
You want 30k marines, then.
The way GW produced space marine figures from 3rd addition on is how they should still be doing them today, I 100% agree with you. They should come as a kit with separate heads, torsos, legs and arms and with extra bits and options, mono-pose is okay for a starter set or for the youngbloods first getting into the game, but GW isn't considering those with modeling skills and who don't want their space marines to look *exactly* like the eight other guys' space marine army who showed up at the gaming hall. That is lame.
Considering that GW's main expense is the electricity to melt plastic 24/7, with two models per sprue, the price of the hobby would just explode. The steps taken for sprue efficiency, monopose being one of them, are absolutely in your best interest. Spend your time and money on becoming a greenstuff virtuoso instead.
@@maxbrandt6 Except in reality, the poses for the guys were almost all the same. Theres more variation now in pose and stances then in the past with tactical marines (especially with anyone holding a gun)
Have you ever looked at the intercessor box? They can be just legs and torsos with any weapon you wanna attach to them, primaris or not, plastic or resin.
The Chapterhouse lawsuit spurned a lot of these changes, as did the rise of 3D printing. In 40k and AOS, their most popular games, models are harder and more complicated to build than they were 20 years ago.
20 years ago, the entire plastic ranges of Orks in 40k and then Warhammer Fantasy were swappable. All Space Marines and Chaos Marines had the same 9ish plastic parts and each of them were interchangeable with one another.
In my opinion, models of that era, while certainly lower in detail than today's models, were so much more fun to hobby on. Progress, from building to painting, was so much faster. And, because you had so much interchangeable parts, armies felt so much more unique and distinct.
It's a lost golden age. If they started doing the old style sprues for everything even at todays insane prices I would buy them.
the thing i've found going from 3rd edition 40k to 10th (i didn't play 4th - 9th, didn't collect, didn't look at, bought a couple novels but that's it) is that there was a bit more casual freedom with the old models, pretty much everything now is "build it this way, or you'll have to cut, and sand, and putty your way to unique poses." like i remember being able to set up space marines and orks in just any old pose arms were lose torsos on a swivel etc, and now as a build votann and new ork kits .... they're all like "do it exactly this way" theres not a lot of freedom of choice unless you want to cut and sand and putty and glue, and kitbash, your way into unique models.
I'm the exact same. I did play a year of 4th before taking a hiatus. The monopose models make it hard and turn you have like squads of 6 and so you often have duplicate models.
That's pretty much how the original warhammer worked, it was the introduction of plastic models that changed it. With exception of things like terminator s or the first mk6 marine plastics, even early plastics in other games like spacehulk were very limited.
@@garryneilson635 so we've gone backwards
I think the new Skaven Clanrats are incredible for what they are. TWENTY models to a single big sprue, each with unique and dynamic poses, two can be built as a leader, two can be a musician, two can be a banner bearer. It really is so neat in what they accomplished.
I've put together 3 eldar tanks. It wasnt fun at all. You basically get 1 picture "this is what it looks like fully assembled! Good luck"
I had a metal 6th edition Empire Helblaster Volleygun, when I was 9, it didn't even have a picture cause it was a blister, the army book had one picture from an awkward angle and I had no fecking idea... I still have it though, did a good job evidently.
Consider the ogre Blood Bowl team for more dynamic ogres.
My favourite sets are Frostgrave/Oathmark/Stargrave sets, easy to pose, lots of female minis and you can (almost) freely mix and match bodies, arms and heads between sets
I've only ever experienced painting newer models due to joining the hobby around 2 years ago, but I still love newer sculpts (just not the monopose bits)
I just got into the hobby this year and same.
You might have painted some incredibly old models without knowing it to be fair! The spearhead box Jay bought is "new" but the kits inside are 20 years old, you can check the dates on the spru themselves but things like Aeldari and fantasy stuff in particular can be in new boxes but with super old sculpts.
Other model makers are still making fun kits like this - kitbashing with a lot of the Frostgrave kits are super modular and I've had so much putting them together.
Freeguild Cavaliers are an excellent example of modern modular kit and it gave me huge amount of happiness to put it together - I think you would love it
I remember buying the Ogor Kingdoms release White Dwarf when I got into the hobby :D it's wild that they haven't been refreshed yet
If that is wild then don't check out the age of some of the Eldar stuff.
Always love the enthusiasm you have using your creativity to "fix" models and really make them your own. I love the building aspect of Warhammer and followed your basing videos and really really love what I've been able to create as a result.
From watching your videos like these, where you have to mold and adjust on the fly, or ones where you come up with a new paint scheme - I've finally left the "paint paralysis" stage and have started to shed the fears of starting out painting. Keep up the great content Jay and Nick!
I remember when the Ogres came out. That issue of WD was incredible. Ogres, Iron Warriors studio army showcase, movie Marines, and so much more.
Ogors are great for anyone who wants to do some conversions… they can be a bit static but with how simple they are a repose is great
Thanks so much for drawing attention to Ogres as an Ogres army collector it's really good to see them getting recognition I love the kits I'd love for the army to be better supported than it is
I recently put together 2k points of Custodians at the same time. Its very liberating having a ton of extra bits to work with at any given time, but the kits have to be able to facilitate it. Having bits from 15 guard, 5 wardens, and 2 blade champions let me make some cool dual wielding guys, and every model got a unique pose. Way more interesting poses than the box suggests. For other factions or model kits that are monopose you're hooped without doing a lot of extra work.
Ogres are made like that not only because of sprue limitation you mentioned. They are also from good old Warhammer times, when each mini had to fit neatly in rows of figures. That's why they are very "squished" and centered on the base, compared to new minis that have lot's of bit's sticking outside the base.
Looking through the comments it really shows when someone started the hobby... Man I'm old. I remember that it was totally normal, that instructions were only suggestion (if they were any to begin with) and you got only several variants of the figure and then bunch of bits to make them different or convert them.
Honestly I prefer that over new GW miniatures. New minis are gorgeous, but often over detailed and monopose. Old ones were simpler, but generally offered more flexibility, and because of amount of bits on the sprue, you could make them as simple or as detailed as you wanted.
I would love to see old kits (like Bretonnia Man-at-arms, Empire state troops etc.) resculpted by current GW, to give them more crisp, current look, but at the same time be modular like old ones.
As someone who just finished 72 men at arms and then assembled one of the new killteams, I would much prefer if the rank and file stuff stayed simple and didn’t have the newer level of monopose complexity
I understand the joy of what you're saying! The Chaos Spawn kit is similarly ancient, but it has so, so many bits, and with the way those dull holes are made, there's so much room for creativity. It took sketching out monster designs and greenstuff work, but it was some of the most fun I've had with a kit.
(It's absolutely still one of my favorite kits!)
The old start collecting box was amazing because all the ogres are sitting on animals and all the parts are modular so with these 2 kits you essentally have infinite build options for 5 models. A bunch of fun weapons like giant crossbows, pistols etc. Really some of the most fun GW kits to build period.
I frequently dive into these classic Ogre sprues to customize my Kroot. The gut-plates in particular are super easy to repurpose into pauldrons for Krootox. The snack meat hooks are seamless additions as well.
Short answer: No
Having built both sculpts of plastic Termagants, Hormagaunts and Genestealers, it's night and day in terms of quality. Less wasted plastic and much better posing as well.
I would def watch a series that rates different kits based on how hard they are to put together! Def cool and useful info for picking new models!
Something to remember about the pre 2010 models is that GW focus was make them different with paint, I started building GW models back in the 90's and the model repeat was even worse, so many White Dwarf magazines had articles on how to make your army stand out with modifications or just different paint choices.
I believe these like a lot of the 2000's era kits were a hybrid of conventional and digital sculpting. For instance using a physical sculpt for the initial model then using digital tools to split it into assemblies. It is before the digital sprue optimization. I wouldn't think of it as "we are allowed x number of sprues" so much as how do we break this sculpt so that it casts well based off experience. One of the big changes in the more recent era is the ability to digitally simulate how the casting will behave as opposed to going off best guess from prior experience.
i have some of the ogres of old (for warhammer fantasy still) - i love them and i love their parts and their design and all of the vibes
i agree with you, i found the modern kits since primaris space marines does reduce the creativity side of the hobby; just because everything fits well, arm swap and leg swap become harder. mono post is understandable when it is metal cast, but if the material is plastic, GW really should play to the strength and give the flexibility and enable the creativity in the hobby.
I feel like they're taking the wrong track with what thet manufacture. 3d printing is getting bigger, and it's not going anywhere. Resin is great for creating fine detail, but it's difficult to work with (especially UV resin, which is harder and more brittle than the resin typically used for casting). Manufacturing is also... well you can do it at home, if you have the right kind of space for it.
The advantage of plastic is basically all about workability and kitbashing, but GW have been in the business of carefully-sliced little sculptures for a while now. They're doing resin stuff with plastic instead of leaning into the benefits of plastic.
Please can we have a studio tour Jay?!!
I think some part of the appeal of the warhammer fantasy models come from the simplicity of the minis. They aren't as detailed as the new ones, but they do give a feeling of unity, something very satisfying to the eyes. You wouldn't really notice their similarity as a problem. Although the newer models are works of art in terms of scuplting, they are sometimes a pain to paint because no models are the same. It also makes the duplicates very noticeable because they stand apart of the others so much.
I'm currently working my way through skaventide and those clan rats are so unique it's daunting and mentally tiring to paint them all because you can't paint them in one big session. Both eras have merits, but i kinda lean towards the simplicity and uniformity of older models visually, especially when they give you more creative freedom.
You have to keep in mind that 20 years ago these models were used in Warhammer fantasy battle, and all the models had to rank up on 40mm square bases. This puts a lot of constraints on the designed poses.
As for sprue density, you would think they would not have been wasteful if they could have done better. Perhaps there was a technology limit 20 years ago?
I feel that it varies from kit to kit. Some AoS I've noticed are bare bones while some from 40K are packed full of options. the Chaos Termies are like 10 or 12 years old but have so much to them without looking squaty or overtly old. They are so fun to build since every piece is built similarly too. It's like a circle with two points as a point to glue. They're fixed points but they have so much variety to pose with. Same with Raptors, they're fun to build.
The chaos possesed kit is deceptively awesome!!! The way the models are posed and sculpted you can do so much custom stuff
Good to see this, as I just scored a box of Gluttons to convert into orgyns using my extra bits, as the Gluttons box is half the price of the ogryn box
Crimson Fists next, please.
It's not happening, jay hates red-fisted ultramarines
@@Coraxery Then it's time for "Fixing the original Space Marine poster boys" - whatever he doesn't like about them can probably be zhuzhed away, right?
The basic posing on the ogors was because they released in FB and they had to fit into a unit on the square bases so they couldn't do cool dynamic poses because models would've caught on each other and been a pain in the arse to move
I used to play faba and remember Ogres being introduced in a White Dwarf just when I was quitting the hobby. I’d say the models have stood the test of time quite nicely! As a space marine collector, I don’t get the nostalgia a lot of folks have for the old Tactical squad (in terms of models). They were all the same half squat dude holding a bolter against their chest. Yes converting primaris takes more work and experience, but overall the models are just miles better.
And now we need a video where Nick and Jay paint the spearheads in some sort of challenge
The bretonnia men at arms and peasant bow men are amazing old kits that hold up today. In a box you get 8 different body's with a bunch of different arm options that are easy to put together. Also the arms can easily be posed. You should check out those kits if you like the ogres.
I only just now started to think about collecting and kit bashing and doing all this stuff, your channel, and probably two other channels, including my significant other, giving me a couple miniature bug bears as sparked my interest in making miniatures
I've built a sylvaneth battleforce no so long ago, and was really surprised how different are those dryads from all the other models. it was a pain in the butt to clean all those moldlines but you can make a ton of unique models with 4 body options only. building all this stuff was tricky, but really fun
Great video but your maths is wrong- 2004 is 5 years ago, not 20.
huh? what are you talking about did you miss the years 2010 to 2024. Pretty sure they happened or I would be a lot less beat up in my thirties as opposed to my fifties
More Nick, Less Shawn
But also more Shawn
I do love that old ork boys box, got myself two more when i started seeing the monopose boys
Yeah i think GW know they fucked up on that one which is why they are still selling the old kit. The old kit is just better in every way. The new monopose kit is awful.
This is exactly why I kitbash pretty much every single mini. And I play Guard. It's just fun to come up with your own designs.
Wow, twenty years old. No wonder _eBay Miniature Rescues_ was able to assemble so many factions from his collection. It was so fun to see the enthusiasm that helps motivate us effecting him too.
Thats what i prefer on the older kits.
Yes they have les detail, and not that cool poses. But with flat joins between the bottem and body, and to the arms. You can make al models a little different with giving them a different pose.
The best example for this are the space marines. Al space marines are the same construction, that give you the option to mix the bits from the tactical, davestator, assault squat, sternguard, vanquard veterans, bikes and caption with each other. To give you so many options.
Instead of that you have between 5 and 20 cool unique models in poser positions, repeating and repeating in youre units
I'm loving these AoS videos, I hope you'll be painting some AoS spearhead armies. I wish to see all Death Spearhead armies be painted by you and your style.
There is a charm that old miniatures have, especially the hand sculpted metal ones. Second edition plastic Tyranid Warriors look dopey but are snazzy in my opinion, and they're creeping on 30 years old.
If you have a PO box, I will send you them
Something I really like is how the sister's do their penitent engines - with the ball joint that has a peg to "lock in" a specific pose on the leg. Sand off the peg, the model is now much harder to construct and glue but you have a lot more freedom. I hope that sort of design philosophy ends up in more GW kits .
2 examples of a good middle-ground that I really enjoy are the crisis suits and the fire warriors.
For the Crisis suits they have ball joints (obviously why such things are easier to do for robotic/artificial things of course) that have little nubs for a basic pose to make it easier for beginners, but it also explicitly states that you have nip off the nub to have free movement and poseability for that arms, legs, head and torso.
Then for the fire warriors, they can't do that of course because they're a biological units, so instead there's a bunch of legs but they end in a flat surface, and the same is true for the bottom of the torso and the shoulders and the arms.
So you get a bunch of leg options, to a poseable torso, to a bunch of different poseable arm options that can either be paired up to hold the gun two-handed or be seperate to hold tools, grenades, etc.
And even past that the weapons are also on the sprue entirely seperately so you can glue them on other places.
This to me seems like the best balance between hiding seams and poseability, both for artificial and organic units.
I was thinking along those like throughout the entire video.
I had no idea how lucky I got with collecting tau until i saw the instructions for primaries marines 😅
I remember when plastic oger kingdoms came as a new fantasy faction. I used to have the metal chaos ogres (now converted to very savage 40k bullgryns)
When I put together my Thousand Sons Exalted Sorcerers and Rubric Marines, I loved how much customization I could do. I actually bought two exlated sorcerer boxes just because they came with so many cool bits I could use to add flavor to my sorcerers and make them all different.
Then I got the Infernal Master, and it was just a single mono box kit. I wouldn't ever want two of them because, while it's a great sculpt, I can't do anything with it.
I bought the Skaven last month from Skaventide, didn't realize it was all push to fit, next to nothing was interchangeable.
I have waited for years for new Skaven and I have not been let down this hard in a long time in the hobby.
I was absolutely bored and uninspired putting them together. Killed my motivation for Warhammer before it even got a chance to start. Back to Bolt Action I go.
I’m currently working on the Ogor spearhead box and choosing to do nmm was a choice I regret.
I’ve also started putting together and fixing some chaos warriors I’ve had since 98 and honestly it might just be that I’m ancient but I love the old kits with all their personality.
Honestly, I’m 50/50 with old sprues. I remember looking at the Ogre sprues on the website and thinking they weren’t to bad, after getting the Spearhead box earlier this mouth I agree with you they take more time then you would think.
Nearly every piece had horrible mold-lines and there was more required pieces then you would think (Why did the soles of their shoes need to be separate pieces?). Worked on them two models at a time (Gluttons and Leadbelchers) or in pieces ( Mournfang and Ironblaster). The arms were fickle at times, use to little glue and they fall off. Had to leave the model alone for a few minutes for the glue to dry.
Don’t get me wrong they were more a hassle then I thought, but looking at them put together I can’t help be happy with them. Already planed out the next three add-ons to the army, plus they didn’t give me the same headache working on my Beastman models did (love them just wish the pieces were numbered like on modern sprues).
The models maybe old, but seeing my Leadbelchers sit next to my new Liberators models it’s hard to really notice the age gab of the two. They’re simple but they’re the kind of simple that ages well.
Sorry for the small tangent, but great video Jay, couldn’t agree more that old sprues have a charm to them!
I love this explanation, really puts into words why I prefer the old models
My local shop had this vanguard box (and a handful of others) for $90
So because of Jay
I now own some mawtribe ogres
I just bought the ogres two or three months ago as well. Currently they are one of my best painted army I own ^^
Im excited to see youcpaint the Ogors. Everyonr I know has a lot of fun painting them. 😊
So, on the topic of instructions that don't say much. Some time ago I was working on great swords. The left and right hands hold their sword tip. There are probably 10 of them to choose from, each from a slightly different angle. And the instructions won't tell you which left goes with which right. So I ended up having to do some transplants later. On the bright side, I had a lot of leftovers from this.
The new kroot are great in the same way. All the arms and heads are interchangeable between the hqs, rampagers and carnivores so you can get a lot of cool poses super easily
You are absolutely on to something! The new sets lack bits to realy costumize models. The old kits had loads of bits to base or embellish.
When I built my ogre army I used a thin sprue glue filler to fill the arms and neck,finished at 80 lads on foot,plus most of the metal,a slave giant and scrap launcher, one of the cannons and two of the mammoth things plus 10 rhinos riders,fun to stomp with.
I’ve been toying with getting the ogor spearhead this has convinced me
I've been painting the whole lot of seraphon, and my most recent gripe along the same line was painting the new warriors and painting tehenhauin from Fantasy at the same time. The details scaling on the new models are so tiny in comparison to the model from 2004. The eyes on the warriors are literal pin points and smaller than skink eyes. The spears are nearly half the thickness of old Warrior models. It's almost like they rendered them bigger and then scaled them down to the right size, which made some details incredibly small.
Don’t forget those ogre minis were originally made for WHFB so required to rank up which limits how dynamic they can be, ranked up units also look better if posed more alike
Hit the nail on the head there was something to the older models a little less freedom made you get creative fast to avoid burnout I built and painted 120 skeleton warriors of the old warhammer fantasy box before their refresh in cursed city and while I totally love the new box I can say that my original skellies had so much more personality not to mention the mountain of bits I was left with from those kits
As someone who assembled and painted ten resin Vespid Stingwings earlier this year, and has now seen the new plastic models they showed off this weekend, I find the question in the title somewhat comical. Not a fair comparison on materials, but even just the sculpts is night and day, which is of course what you should expect with 20 years of both artistic and technological advancements.
5:51 I did a similar thing for a bunch of Skitarii. I got like 20 Skitarii New On Sprue a while ago and wanted to convert them into a Solar Auxilia LasRifle Blob of 20. Snipped the legs&torso bits off and even with hours&hours of trying to organize them with the help of the instructions I build the Sergeant&a few others and just kept putting off the rest because it was such a nightmare to figure out which upper body halves fit together, which pair of legs went to which upper body&which left arm went to which gun. I traded them away around a year after I first had the idea to convert them into Solar Auxilia.
I am currently assembling a chaos knights army for tow with a mix of old and new models. Different design philosophies, but they look very nice when put together... Although, not in the same unit. Some are more like a unstoppable marching force, the others are more like an elite savage army.
Brother, I've been building Warhammer since like 1993. I've had myshare of hacking up plastic to make each one as individual as possible so I can definitely relate.
There is also something about a more basic pose that looks better repeated then the much more dynamic poses of current day. Don't get me wrong, I love how dynamic the GW poses are nowadays, but it's also much easier to spot repeated poses when they are so different to each other.
First kit I built was the Ork Kommandos a brand new kit, second kit was Flash Gitz, it was a nightmare took me a whole day to put together full of mold lines and gaps etc.
I find the spews are a lot more accessible in the older models, you can build the kits just by reading the sprew, the pieces may need more clean up, but the pieces are easier to modify, and play with.
SPRUE
@@darthkek1953 dig your spurs in and spruce those things up
@@darthkek1953i prefer sprew
@@FluteGnome It's a technical term not a matter of preference.
@@muffinlord3168 i think the joke went over you’re head 😂
Brian Nelson sculpt ork boyz are the BEST
Kitbashing across the entire range us amazing
Thank you Nick
I prefer the older sprues those made sense. You didn't need an assembly guide. In general miniatures have 2 legs 2 arms a torso and a head, anything else was up to your imagination, and if you wanted to make your own conversions it was pretty easy to make (for example i used empire, undead and beastmen sprues for my Sylvania themed Empire army). Nowadays most of the times you need to use the assembly guide (worst one i encountered so far is the Kinhai harpies for the daughters of khaine), and most of the time it is still not clear how the different bitz fit together, and all you get is the same poses as on the box art. If you want to make your own conversions, you pretty much have to assemble the miniature how it was supposed to be than, cut it apart to do the conversion. That is one unnecessary step. I got some of those Oger riders (got that cannon and the stonebull, but used the beasts for different builds) and converted them into river trolls. Also one huge problem i have with new sprues is that the attatchment to the sprue is on some weird places, where the whole bitz is under pressure, and the moment you try to cut it of the sprue, something snaps, and the bitz is broken. Older sprues had more flesh and mold lines though.
Older sprues are better for conversions, in my opinion, but need more work cleaning (flesh, moldlines).
Newer sprues have more details, easier to clean, but it happens a lot more often that bitz break when you try to cut them from the sprue.
I just finished assembling my Gorgers, a unit I was dreaming about for the past 20 years and I gotta say: I love ogres how they are, but there were some old models that DESPERATELY needed an update.
The new Gorgers are beautiful and I can't wait for the yetis to get their chance of a re-do.
(The maneaters too... the ninja ogre was beautiful but I don't trust the flying kick gnoblar either in metal or GW resin)
Tau Firewarriors are great and pretty old aside from some add-ons. Makes them more customiseable weirdly.
I am a simple man, I see Nick in an EOB video, I click the like button
It is worth noting that the older AOS kits are from Warhammer Fantasy. As such they were designed to work with square bases in formation. That is why the posing of the Gluttons is so limited.
I’ve got so many of the last sculpt of Termagants for Tyranids, and seeing them next to the new ones is so rough 😂 they are all straight as an arrow
I think that is one of the biggest downsides to modern AOS models. Yes, they look absolutely divine, but good luck getting more than one pose out of them.
I really expected a video about the new kill team
I’m about to try putting together some plague priests from the skaven, and they are still the old Warhammer fantasy battles kit. So I’m going to experience this exact thing…. But in a multiplayer of 20.
The Tyrant sprue was much newer than the others, hence the monopose model - it replaced the metal tyrant model which came with optional heads and arms/weapons
Good to see AOS has your attention, AOS is eating good
Age of sigmar came out in 2015. Really cool video.
They are not ghouls, they are Noble Knights and loyal Serfs!
The miniatures are from ogar kingdoms army in warhammer fantasy. They just grabbed the old modles and used them.
I collected Ogre Kingdoms in 2004 as a 14 year old and I loved them!
Dug them out of my parents attic recently and they look rough 😂. Still love them though. ❤
Also didn't really understand points at the time, turns out I have like 4000 by accident 😮.
i used to play ogre kingdoms on sixth edition and i swear to god the gnoblar scraplauncher was a torture device imposible to build for me as a kid.
the old kits may be simpler, but are so much nicer for kitbashing and customization. you cant barely do anything with the way parts are cut in new models. its near impossible to ever use arm A on body B now. i guess with less and less wysiwyg alongside fewer options its not as important now. some of the new kits are really bad for having just identical models one you have 2 boxes, even though each individual model is some super unique look. i think that super unique pose actually makes duplicates more obvious.
One thing to remember with old fantasy kits is that they also had to consider how the models ranked up.
Thanks for showcasing AoS and some nice old ogres (ogors.) looking forward to some sweet free handing tattoos
Old models had some great sculpts but the truly customizable ones were tough to make look great. The newer ones are easier to get right but the customization is tougher to do. The Sisters of Battle kit is the perfect in between and should be the standard for the new kits.
Cant wait for your painting video for these ogres!
I prefer the old sprues. "Here are a bunch of parts, do whatever you like". And you can mix and match different creatures together. The legs of a goblin, the torso of a dwarf, some imperial parts, and you have an army of halflings.