I played 15s in college. We were a self funded club without any sponsorship. We played against large universities like The university of Michigan and Michigan state. Had no coach and we’re self taught in the sport and we were one of the top teams in the Midwest US at that time. Our self motivation helped develop the ladies program at the university and we coached the ladies based on the positions we played….. in my case it was loose head and tight head prop as well as 8 man. If USA rugby wants to find good players, they need to reach out to the university clubs and the city side teams, especially in the mid west. They have talented athletes who don’t make the cut for American Football and love the game. I was one of those guys but didn’t have the outlet or exposure to move on to the next level in the US. Rugby is the only sport I really follow and I have recently introduced it to my son. I hope that it continues to grow. I’d love to see him play.
USA was beating Scotland and Samoa 6 years ago and things looked really bright. Here is what happened: 1. The Union went bankrupt and players spend little time together before international games. The Europe based players tend to fly in last minute. Most training is on Zoom. 2. MLR has meant that lots of US players who played at a reasonable professional level came back to the USA and now play at a lower level and lost fitness. 3. The US invested in the approach of building a professional leage as a means of raising the level of the national team. Teams like Chile, Portugal put all or most their players in one team, playing in a regional competition. When Covid struck, the US players barely saw each other for years, while Chile and Portugal were able to train regularly. They also field a virtual national team in regional competitions against other virtual national teams. They got better, the US got worse. 4. For many US domestic players in the MLR, the MLR is not professional. They have to work on the side. This makes the sport difficult to play and a number of promising young players drop out to take up a career. Some USA internationals have part time jobs. 5. Even some USA internationals have work committments and can't always be available for the national team. 6. MLR teams often do the fitness and conditioning sessions during the daytime, when some of the local players have to work. 7. The US traditionally played a more attacking gameplan based around the fact that the strengths were athletic back row players, strong midfielders and fast wings. Due to lack of time together, Gary Gold prioritized a kicking / maul game that was supposed to beat Chile and Portugal. It wasn't, and now the team has lost it's style. 8. One of the USA's best props, Tito Lamositele, tried to get on the Samoa WC squad. He failed, but played one game for them, so is now ineligible for the Eagles. Roman Salanoa, USA born and raised, is on the bench for Munster, but turns down USA caps as he then loses Ireland eligibility and becomes a non-EU player, meaning Munster would immediately release him. 9. The USA no longer seem to produce any players who are good enough to be recruited by European pro teams. In the past they had guys like Samu Manoa, Blaine Scully, Scott Lavalla etc. 10. There are no US eligible players in either the MLR or abroad playing fullback regularly. 11. MLR coach mentality seems to be 'why play a young American guy when you can get a South African journeyman' 12. Thew new US coach isn't picking the best players and despite claiming he will look to the future has been selecting older players who have not performed. I'm sure there is more.
I don't know if this is still the case, but RU internationals on US soil seem to be for the financial benefit of the visitors and the union don't see a lot of money from them. This all seems like a horrendous mess and a lot of work's going to have to be put in over the 8 years. The Anthem thing seems to be an intervention in the classic sense.
I won’t go point by point but generally disagree with you. The MLR is proving to be the very structure needed to build the foundation of a far better prepared and organized national team. While the quota of US eligible players is on the low side, I believe that is going to change as development pathways gain maturity - academy sides within MLR developing players for instance. The just completed European tour was dominated by MLR players. They beat three teams that each play very different styles. The U.S. proved to be adaptable. I watched all these matches and the difference between this side and past sides was clear. Where past sides would fall apart after a player made an error, this one showed the ability to absorb those errors and just get on with the game. Examples: the U.S. faced a 20 minute red card and scored two tries. They faced a yellow card and scored a try. I agree that losing Lamisotele was a loss, but he wanted to play in a WC and this time round, we didn’t make it. But was t he on sides that failed to qualify? And our scrum looked better than in past years on this just completed tour. With a pro league in place, academy programs developing home grown talent and a better national team schedule, the Eagles are better positioned for success than at any other time.
David Ainu is prop at Toulouse, arguably the best club in Europe. He is not N°1 at his post, but plays regularly, in starting position for some matches.
As a teenager living in the USA who has played and watched rugby for years, it hurts me really deeply to watch this video and know that you’re telling the truth. I want US rugby to succeed so badly but I just don’t see a future where that happens. There’s literally 5 teams in my state at my age level. And the quality is nothing like what you get in Europe. Here’s hoping that we get our act together enough for the home World Cup
I was a teenager 25yrs ago with the same hope and expectations for usa rugby to be better as time passes. Unfortunately we are in the same position if not below the standard that I knew of back in the days, and even then, the standard was low (compared to what it could have been with the right selectors).
@@HuwGriffinRugby World Rugby is doing the wrong thing (unless I'm blaming the wrong people) promoting non-contact rugby for children. There's not much reason to play touch rugby when you could as well play touch or flag (American) football. You might get to run more, but that's the last thing the bigger, slower children who'd enjoy and be good at rucking and mauling would want.
@HuwGriffinRugby Women's rugby does fill a niche because there's no real version of American Football for women. It's the same reason why the USWNT does better than USMNT.
This didn’t age all that well. The Eagles have just concluded a 3-0 sweep in their recently completed European tour. The team looked quite good in the process. They started the tour at 19 and are now 15. MLR is a slow burn. It’s not going to launch like a rocket but burn slowly. For all the criticism of the lack of US players, the majority of players in this squad are a product of MLR. One of the standouts of the Eagle squad has been Conor Mooneyham, who has come up through the domestic pathway.
Sorry, but maybe a controversial opinion, investing in the US is a complete waste of time and money. It will never take off, MLS has already stolen the small market cap that was open to Rugby in the 2000's. Its too late now. Money would be much better served in South America and Europe, where the game actually shows signs of growth. Investment in Spain, Portugal and Belgium in Europe is urgently needed. Investment in Chile, Uruguay, Argentina and Peru is urgently needed. These countries don't offer short term financial gain like the US does, but they do offer further long term growth opportunities into Brazil, the Netherlands, Germany and Eastern Europe. It offers a far more realistic long term plan for growth. The money will come eventually from these markets.
Bad take for sure. Comparing professional rugby to the MLS is not a fair comparison. The MLS has almost 30 years to build a brand while the MLR is not even 10. It takes time, dedication, talent growth, and luck. With the USA hosting the World Cup in 203? Whatever it allows the sport to grow. It’s all about visuals. While it’s an uphill battle it’s still growth in our sport we all love.
@@awsomerobyn2603African rugby seems to get no attention from World Rugby. Kenya and Zimbabwe should be a real focus to further develop the game there
Nothing controversial about it. USA and Canada both failed to capitalise on the prospect of genuine international competition and both have lost too much ground to soccer to make any real growth likely. Plus sevens and the Olympics is where the interest is.
USA's situation aside, as a South African I'm just stunned that we have had the WC once in SA, won it four times, lost hosting to France, under some seriously shady circumstances, who, mind you, have never won it and who had it as recently as 4 World Cups ago and have now hosted it 3 times. Now it's off to the US, where 5000 people attended their last national game.....and then next up we have Australia, who've hosted it twice before and will be hosting it for a third time. They've won the WC once. Great reward for winning it 4 times. Thanks, WR.
you say that france won the organization against you in a shady way, but you don't mind winning the world cup in a way that's not shady but shameful, SA corruption at every level!
Idk maybe it's the crime rates, rolling blackouts or the annoying fans making everything about that 3rd world country. This video has zero to do with you. Kindly piss off
@@jeramy576 A very touchy little snowflake you are. Bless you. SA hosted the football World Cup less crime than France has already affecting its current Olympic athletes. They also seem to have a little issue with terrorism, currently. If you think SA fans are annoying you should see, I don’t know, the rest of sports fans across the globe. I don’t think calling SA out for being a third world country try has as much impact as you think it does. Kinda just makes it a little embarrassing how many first world countries lack 4 world cups. Also don’t think making the point that the US national team is currently being propped up by world rugby to avoid the hosts being embarrassed at home, while four time WC winning SA has only hosted it once, is “making everything about SA”. It’s a legitimate point made in criticism of World Rugby and its management. So, if you’d like to go ahead with more ad hominem attacks on SA and our socioeconomic status, please feel free, but the fact remains, the World Cup should have been hosted in SA last year, but wasn’t, thanks to some creative negotiations on behalf of French Rugby, and now it’s headed to the US, population, 5000 fans. Kindly get poesed.
As a fellow Saffa I can tell you it is politics that gets us. For the France WC even Rugby Africa voted against us and went for France. Beaumont doesn't like us and WR suffer us because they have to. So us winning world cups annoys them till no end😂
NRL is making a push to promote rugby league in USA with games in Vegas. They'll have a game on primetime on Fox (free to air) next year. Will be interesting to see what (if any) impact that has on union in the US.
The Hawks U20s entered the U20s euro championships and won 3 matches. I think the roosters have a pathways program in America, and an American junior from that program made the junior Hawks roster.
@@JRPete Uruguay, Kenya and the Netherlands. Not exactly top teams. Lost 48-10 to Scotland. To put it in context, Scotland didn't come close to winning a game in the u20's 6 nations.
The tier one nations had a century head start and you're expecting a country without the infrastructure, traditions and culture, and the resources to compete with teams that have been playing the game for longer. On top of that, when you have to try and build up something with limited funds that have to be spread evenly among the teams in USA rugby, you will see uneven results. So while the US Women's team has done well and the men haven't, it has also had the benefit of not seeing the likes of the tier one nations and traditional rugby nations like the Pacific Islands invest into that side of the game until fairly recently. This lack of decades of investment and culture around the game has given the tier one nations a leg up. Rome wasn't built in a day and while things have been rocky recently with USA Rugby, it at least is admitting there's a problem and are addressing it unlike say the USSF with the American soccer national teams. To say that it is a failure when it is only three decades old is like saying an expansion team is a failure only three years into its existence. It's attitudes like this that hold rugby back and make people become alienated from the game only to pick up other sports instead. Would you call the national team of Italy a failure? They're a so called 'tier one nation' and haven't once gotten out of the group stage in the World Cup and continue getting wooden spoons at the Six Nations while continuing to rack up losses to non tier one nations in embarrassing fashion. Is Germany's national team a failure? This is a country that has been playing rugby for hundreds of years and still hasn't been able to attract interest in the game for a country of a little over 83 million people, nor has been able to crack the World Cup once. Is Zimbabwe's national team a failure? They haven't been able to make the World Cup since 1991 and this is despite the fact that the game of rugby is the second most popular sport besides cricket and is prioritized in the development of the game there over other nations by World Rugby for the history of the game in that country. You can look at a majority of the non traditional rugby nations and find reasons to say they have 'failed'. And you would look silly for doing so. Has the US Men's National Rugby Team failed? No. Underachieved given its potential over the past three decades? Yes. However, 2019 seems to have been a wake up call and USA Rugby is doing a lot of good things to improve the sport and the quality of the national team.
Well said. The US has a very rich sports tradition. But America barely became tier 2 until the new cup that came out. The gaping canyon between the two and one is insane. I saw Canada vs Scotland with my own eyes . Well worth mentioning also that the US is working with the dregs of the dregs of the dregs. American football, hockey, basketball and baseball get to pick the best athletes and even after that sports like soccer and lacrosse get their pickings. Considering this the US should be commended. T1 nations can help if they want to by doing more series. Do a Lions series here, send the BarBars in every year for a few years. Get a Pacific Islanders Lions (with a better name obviously) and send them on series. This is how the game grows!
The more accurate way to look at it is that there was no century+ head start. The USA and Canada were among the few first nations outside the British Isles to take up rugby football. But bhat was then the RFU (ancestor to World Rugby) in 1876 spurned the Intercollegiate Football Association's request for clarification of some of the Laws of the Game -- they literally were unplayable, you can read about it in Titley and McWhirter, but they preferred to handle it by informal understanding in England -- the IFA was left to their own devices, and the American and Canadian teams, which had been playing pre-RFU versions of rugby, came up with their own, non-contradictory clarifications, and then the IFA and Canadian unions decided to maintain their own rules and ignore the RFU. The result has been the huge enterprise of American and Canadian football. So it's really Rugby Union that was left behind.
@@goodmaro Yes, the USA was one of the first to pick up the sport of rugby union. And yes, the RFU were arrogant to not listen to the changes made by the IFA and Canada. The USA and Canada also lost any and all tangible experience in rugby union by the 1920s and had to start from scratch in the late 80s. And when I mean from scratch, I mean from ground zero. The US had to completely restart fresh in order to catch up with the big players in the sport. And to rebuild from nothing takes time. We're seeing that now and there's even a question of which form of rugby does the USA embrace more going forward. Does it embrace Rugby Union or Rugby League? Both sports are vying for America's attention, with Rugby Union having an edge as the USA has the second highest participation numbers in all of World Rugby.
Honestly this shows a poor understanding of what goes on here. Ok guy, you can stop right there. The ARC was huge for us and it gave us the platform to beat Scotland. That All Blacks game was a joke, but there's plenty of reasons why that occurred.
I blame the British for keeping the rugby game amateur for almost all of last century; not wanting to go professional and nations like the USA never improving. Same about Germany, they established their rugby back in 1900, and the British (Especially England) didn’t care developing and helping the Germans competitive. Imagine USA and Germany in the top 5 in World Rugby rankings had the British opened up to professionalism earlier on and not choose to be Elitist Poofs?
The IRB home nations were against the Rugby world cup when it was first proposed. It was NZ and Australia who pushed for it and hosted the first tournament. Once they saw how popular it proved saw them jump on board very quickly.
@@MrAhuapaithey still act like that. Portugal played last week against South Africa because they invited us after the last WC. We are playing Scotland in November but never have we ever played any of the other home nations outside a WC despite them being our neighbors. Many keep begging for the 6 Nations to change format to give Georgia and Portugal and chance but that will never happen. They are a closed shop that’s perfectly happy with the money they make in those 5 weekends each year and have no interest in growing the game elsewhere, especially now that Georgia and Portugal have shown that they could beat Italy and Wales (in 2022 Georgia beat Wales and Portugal lost by a mere 7 points to Italy. Portugal was maybe at 20% the strength it is nowadays).
The other big sliding doors moment was Rugby League in France. Rugby League had quickly gained massive momentum in France in the years following the expulsion of the French Union team from the 6 Nations for “suspected professionalism” with large numbers of clubs switching to League. However, after the Vichy took over they effectively outlawed Rugby League viewing it as an overly progressive insurgent sport and they confiscated all assets of the game, giving them over to the FFR. I’ve long thought that if they hadn’t had that momentum stripped from them, Rugby Union would have effectively died in France and looked more like it does in Australia, with Rugby League thriving in its place.
@@joelmonteiro1419The old boys club is still well and truly alive. They simply give lip service to the Tier 2 teams and are not including them in anything meaningful
Most people here have never seen rugby, and have interesting views on it. I show rugby to people, they tend to get interested in it. I think exposure is a major, major issue.
I'm glad USA rugby is back in the 2024 World Rugby Pacific Nations Cup. Basically Japan and Fiji are considered Tier 1 Rugby nation on a good day...hehehe..this will be good for USA rugby development
I'm only a minute into this video, and it's already confusing. It seems you're referring to a *team* of each sex by "USA Rugby". Please, if you mean the national side, say "Eagles". USA Rugby is the organization formerly called USARFU, the national union for the game. If you say it failed at something, I'm imagining some organization problem, not the fortunes of select sides in competition.
Some of these South American teams have been playing Rugby for decades. Same with Eastern European countries like Romania who toured NZ when I was a kid. The Puma are no pushover. Georgia is no pushover. These guys get to play tier one nations.
And the United States hasn't had any tournaments to play in at all since before the pandemic so that they can test themselves and get better. Reserve players can't get better as players if they don't have the ability to play against the best. For the USA, and Canada as well, to get better, they regularly need to play in a tournament with semi equal competition regularly to improve.
Almost all Pumas are playing outside Argentina since the demise of the Jaguares franchise due to Covid. England, France, even 1 in New Zealand. Georgia: half of the national team plays in the home franchise Black Lions, the other half plays in France; same situation for Portugal. These players rub shoulders with Tier 1 squads players.
so many issues I don't know where to begin....But I believe it is largely financial...if you can't afford to support you and your family on a rugby salary...how can you compete with someone who can
Try to convince me this is a problem. Why should I care about the standing of a side that plays way, way above the level I played at? No matter how the Eagles do, the game remains the most fun you can have knocking around with others without having the cops come to break it up. I see much of the same problem in American football, where I coach children. Too many people focus on trying to develop players for "the next level", at which most of them will never play. Even if you get to the top level of a competitive game, *it's still a game.*
Well said, good sir. On the one hand I agree with you - it is a great way to just have a good bit of fun and have an excuse to have a few drinks with some guys you just tackled the crap out of. On the other hand, US viewership is highly sought after and can inject a lot of money into the world game.
@@randomlyfactual1943 Why does the world game need more money? I doubt more than 1 in 1,000 will notice the difference between that much more money and no more money. The most entertaining NFL football on TV was in games between the "scab" (strikebreaking) teams during the strike of 1986. The only dull games were where one team was stocked with existing talent and the other not due to differential access to payment during the strike. Where the clubs were equal, the games were more interesting, not less, despite the much-lowered cash flow.
@@goodmaro I hear you. We have a schoolboy game on this week called the Interschools, between Paarl Boys High and Paarl Gimnasium. Expected to pull a 25k crowd at least. But this is Africa, and we have a ton of underprivileged people. Development here really helps and the money often goes to amateur players who don't have anything to eat. If applied in places such as our rural areas, Zimbabwe or Kenya, it might change someone's life for the better
I believe the Virgin media group should capitalize on this moment and create a channel called the Virgin Sports channel and start showing Rugby. And out bid the rugby rights from Flo Sports & NBC sports. And also Televise some Cricket matches to
The problem is also they rearly play top tier nations and similar to geogia don't get good exposure except autumn and summer tests. The MLR is a start but if the mlr put restrictions on players from other nation's. I feel the union and mlr need to get together and find a way to fix them. Also there is a contested sports market there to.
The reason we will not excel at Rugby in the US is because it is played by Big physical players, and we have a sport here American Football that requires the same athlete, and the elites get paid so much more than any Rugby player will ever make, then there are spring football leagues now that pay more than Rugby.... Long story short is our athletes that don't make it in Football that end up playing Rugby against the best of other nations... I as a die hard fan of American football fan, and learning to really like Rugby enjoy watching South Africa, New Zealand, Ireland and England because they are the best and I want to watch the best at any sport, and the top players from every nation.. I hope that made sense, Greetings from Miami to all!
@@Trajan2401 Romantic but if any of us have a choice we would make more money if not for ourselves for our families and friends, that's why we work for a living, and want to earn more to provide. I am not trying to be a jerk I am only voicing the why a huge country like ours is not elite even though on paper we have an advantage, we have millions playing college Football which is a religion in our country, and only a few end up playing in the NFL the most profitable league in the world, so you are not only competing as Rugby against the NFL athlete but all those aspiring to maybe one day make it in the big league. It's not our sport, we don't have to be the best at all sports, I love South African Rugby, it's such a huge part of the fabric of that country, and it means so much to the people there, and I love it!
I don't think it's hate. Everybody wants the US to do well. However it's undeniable that the US should not be hosting the WC and the funds given to the US would have been much better used in South America or Tier 2 Europe
@@standard12th66 It's all about World Rugby and the Tier One unions milking the biggest cash cow. That said, you'd think that they would've learned their lesson after the disastrous Sevens World Cup held in a baseball stadium. And unless WR moves the 2031 RWC to the summer, it'll be an apocalyptic failure. If the RWC is held in its normal slot in October, there won't be a single large rectangular stadium available on the continent because of the NFL and NCAA, unless they've already booked out the necessary dates for the RWC by now - and I really mean RIGHT NOW. And what WR is failing to take into consideration is that most American rugby union fans are also fans of their local professional and collegiate American Football teams, and no matter their passion for the Mother Code, the NFL and NCAA will always come first in the fall. That's why MLR starts its season in January, and why MLS plays most of its season during the American Football offseason, to avoid the proverbial oxygen getting sucked out of the league by the biggest, richest professional sports league in the world, and the collegiate system that's even bigger than the NFL.
For me I think the issue which has been alluded to in the comments section is that the game needs to be played consistently at schools level. The more schools that play it, the higher the standard will be and if there is investment in school sports, then the standard will go up. The kids need to pick up the nuances of the game from a young age as rugby is a chaotic sport at the best of times and to understand this chaos and nuances you have to be well versed in it. A good foundation will help the sport grow.
I agree rugby in the USA needs to be pick up at the kids level or younger there are programs in the USA known as The Rookie rugby for the youth and kids need to build up more and more programmes like it the more the better there is the high school youth programmes through out America from the famous highland high school to nexsavier high need to be more and more involved to the colleges from the teams like BYU The CAL Bears Saint Mary's Army and Navy the two great college comps USA College Rugby and NCR National Collegiate Rugby and to all of the American Club Rugby comps the likes of Balmont Shore Rugby Football Club to Old Blue New York Rugby Football Club that's the grassroots rugby level sorted out and then on to Major League Rugby the highest rugby level in America playing for the MLR teams then on to The USA EAGLES which is even higher level this being international test rugby rugby in the usa at the moment and for awhile is too divided and fractured too much division among the rugby administration bodys for there own thing they all Must aline to one another work together on a united front all need to support one another all are strong together every single level of rugby through out the Rugby Landscape of The United States Of America when every level of rugby is strong The USA EAGLES Rugby Team is strong and a cohesive unit and have a good infrastructure in place from the Botton up and top down at all levels of rugby in the USA which money must be invested into the grassroots level of rugby in America a project like this will take up too 10 or 15 years to work
@@jonathonwhitiora8102 Thanks for this highly informative response. Your Sevens programme gives hope that if a few things are sorted, then there will be more countries playing at a very high level. Wish you guys the best for the future.
@@HuwGriffinRugby The NFL offers huge financial rewards and is fed by college football which is well resourced. You can’t say the same for US rugby. It’s also worth looking at the percentage of Canadians playing in the NHL. Kids in Canada love hockey and those who play often pick up injuries. Would their parents be so keen if each time that happened they had to pay thousands just for an ambulance ride?
Hilarious take... Healthcare I don't get I have family in England and they hate the wait time for medical care they experience, yet our healthcare is terrible because our Insurance companies are horrible... But bad take, we have more physical sports as mentioned by others with Football, Hockey and Wrestling in the midwest.
Rugby is profitable in Australia and most likely in New Zealand. In Australia, it is probably in the top three most profitable sports in the country, the other two being Australian Rules Football and cricket
Rugby's real problem is a lack of viewership outside of the tier 1 nations. Even then, world rugby doesn't capitalise on the 'lesser nations' that do tune in to the sport. Germany apparently had 9.5 million viewers watching the 2019 RWC, World rugby did nothing to keep them engaged. Madagascar's national sport is rugby and they even have more registered players than Scotland. again, nothing being done to make the most out of this.
World Rugby's original plan was to expand the RWC to 24 teams in 2031, the only reason they brought it forward four years for Australia in 2027 was because the last thing they wanted was for the hosts to have failed to have qualified for the previous two tournaments. That's a real sign of desperation by the sport's governing body.
I'm a bit worried when people say "we'll just need 1% of the market". It is incredibly hard to get to a 1% market share in any market. The US sports market is the most competitive in the world, and everyone and their mother is trying to get a piece of it. Forget about taking on the NFL, try to beat out Ultimate Frisbee and bowling first. It's hard to find reliable numbers but the football (soccer) market is now around 5-6% after decades of investment and development and the benefit of global (cultural) appeal and the presence of large middle and south america communities. Getting a fifth of that would be an immense task. To put it differently: getting market share of 1% would mean getting 800 million in revenue. What does that mean? Now we will get in fantasy territory. Imagine that a highly successful US Eagles team manages to get the same amount of income as the richest Union in the world, the RFU. Thats around 200 million (the ballpark figure of what the English Rugby team brings in). If you manage to sell out big football stadiums and sell the fans a lot of overpriced beer that might be possible. That still leaves 600 million though. So the biggest and richest clubs in the world, the French giants, bring in about 40-45 million in revenue. Lets round it up to an even 50. So practically you need a league in the US/Canada with 12 clubs the size of Toulouse. I realise these are all estimates and ballpark figures but the point is that rugby needs to stop chasing these unrealistic dreams to distract from its actual problems and opportunities. I also don't get the strategy to build up the sport from the top. The US already is one of the largest unions when it comes to member count. A successful national team is the key to building a profile. Test level rugby players can be created. If you put your most talented 12 year olds in a high quality pathway you will create a team that can get into a RWC quarter final.
So... basically they need a country like New Zealand smacked down anywhere no matter where as long it on the states of United States? Have 1000 rows of crops ready to introduce to the world's Ethan De Groot, Codie Taylor. Tyrell Lomax - Mighty Williams, Asofa Aumua, Paslio Tosi - Ofa Tu'ungafasi, George Bell and Fletcher Newell something like this
I think you hit the nail on the head there and huge problem is American football for the development of rugby union in the United States. The types of athletes that played both sports are far too similar and those far far more money and tradition in American football in the United States, then rugby union. Rugby union bike Association football a.k.a. soccer requires at least to begin training at a very early age to gain a sense of how the game is played it’s flow and all the nuances that make for world class players. But another issue is the pay for play problems. Rugby is not played in most schools in the United States, the United States athletic programs tied to the education system. So if you want to play rugby in the United States at a young age you have to have a club nearby and be able to afford it. This is very very unlikely here in the United States for young people to pick up the game early so in general American rugby players to start playing pick the game up after they’ve already played some sort of American football, and a bit older they never really gained the same sense of the game as players from other nations who picked up the sport at a young age and just have a better sense at the game. So rugby has the worst of both soccer and American football too many of the athletes and American athletes don’t pick up the game early enough to become really proficient at the games played.
There’s no cohesion with the team The players don’t play with each other regularly It’s like an all-star team that gets put together once a year Plus, USA Rugby is inefficient and poorly managed as a business -an American
More money just means more corruption rugby players play more for the love of the game than the money true sportsman before 1995 rugby was amateur yet it didnt stop people wanting to play the game same with hurling,Gaelic football and AFL they are all amateur but are the biggest sports in Ireland and Australia money ain't everything btw softball doesn't even register in NZ they would be lucky to have a 1000 players yet they dominated softball for 20 years so saying rugby is a niche sport in the US is an excuse NZ win many niche sports with only 5 million like your very own Americas cup
it’s videos like these where you scare away any kind of new rugby fans in the usa. u got bored and decided “let’s make a video burying a nation who’s trying to get better” bravo 👏🏾
The optimism: this is probably the best opportunity to push rugby to an American audience there's ever been. There's growing dissatisfaction with American Football from a not insignificant portion of that audience because of what they view as the "softening" of the sport. Rugby, if nothing else, has always been viewed here as a "tough guys" sport. There's headway here to be made with solid investment in the pro, amateur, recreational and youth levels. The cynicism: There is never going to be the money to put into the game here because, fundamentally, the game is at odds with how American sports teams make their money: Advertising. The game isn't set up to allow for extensive commercial breaks the way that Football, Baseball, and (to a slightly lesser extent) basketball are. With out the traditional advertising opportunities, the ROI for just isn't there for these advertisers to justify spending the money that would be necessary to push the sport. The solution may be in making the GameDay experience INCREDIBLY fan focused; cheap tickets, cheap drinks, cheap food, big pre-game tailgate parties with meet and greets, contests, give aways, games for the kids. Parking lots on match day should basically be a carnival. Play in smaller more intimate stadiums that allow really up close and personal interaction with the game and its players. Bring the fans in with a unique gameday experience and THEN chase the advertising dollars.
The USA is not a “sleeping giant” We are very much awake and playing American football…😂at least we try to play Rugby. Most of Europe along with the rest of the world probably besides Germany/Japan n a couple African Nations are deadly afraid of seriously touching the pigskin for some reason 😭
@@Stephen-lx9nm I truly feel sorry for u that u actually think that… American football is quite literally one of the most complex sports to play at the highest level. Teenagers don’t play professional AF because it would pretty much kill them. I suggest u look into a replica NFL playbook u can get ones from as close too 4 yrs ago… shit is bigger than the Bible 🤣🤣 which needs to be memorized regardless of position btw. Which also includes ur coaches and coordinators systems
@@Stephen-lx9nm Then u have the disproportional amount of volatility that comes with AF compared to any other team sport… it is statistically the hardest sport to stay at the top level of consistency at. Funny enough the MLB is right behind them n that’s mostly because of baseballs farm system and minor leagues
You could write the same script about Canada: from 1991 q-finalists to also not qualifying for 2023--the first time they've not qualified for the RWC. A quick check of the comments in Rugby Canada's RUclips posts shows a litany of calls for Kingsley Jones' head. As the head of Rugby Canada, he is largely at fault for the decline of the program. Do Canadian rugby a favour and do a summary of this program in the doldrums.
Wow, seeing this all laid out is beautiful. There are so many bits and pieces that can be added on to why the United States isn’t a rugby nation. Partially, union might not be the best for the United States .. maybe we are a League country at our core.. But our issues for failure are systemic on many levels .. Expensive Healthcare doesn’t help the process… the expensive road to getting to the top levels.. And our national bodies underdeveloped approach to youth Rugby is also an issue.. I literally could talk about this for days
@@HuwGriffinRugby absolutely 2hrs.. But we will see how we progress onto the WORLD CUP and next Olympics.. Check out Moonshot by USA 15s HC Scott Lawrence… he has a plan that you can read..
MLR is fighting against budget monsters like the NFL and the NBA, they can't compete on the same level field. They need to implement a different format that will engage the public to follow the games. Rugby in the US needs relegation. This will mean that every game will be important. Second point is to call on foreign players but with a quota. You want american players to learn from foreign players and replicate. This will only be a 10 years plan minimum and the effect won't appear for the next WC but they might for the one after.
Can i just say the main issue is finding players who want to play as oppose to converting athletes to change their mindset. What i mean is to seek the demographic around the country of expat UK, especially pacific islanders and you would be surprised how many Asians are vested in the game hence Japan making waves.
If you look at the bigger picture, they're all screwed. The world is getting older, so in the future it'll be a shrinking portion of the population who'll want to play contact sports -- or really, any sports except maybe some non-competitive ones. Maybe the best example of where things are going in competitive sports has been the rise of pickleball, which strongly resembles the old people's sport of paddle tennis.
No. Glendale has tried this failed miserably. Look at the Glendale American Raptor cross over program. Targeted this particular group. It needs to be a grass roots movement like in every other country. We need more time on the ball and more tournament play to encourage growth.
Not gonna happen. Why? Well, American Football skills don't translate well to XVs. In Sevens, superior athleticism can overcome a more astute and tactically sound player, but the player coming in to rugby at 22 will spend their peak athletic years not really knowing the game as well as a player that came into the game as a child, and has been training in rugby ever since, and by the time they've finally reached that understanding, several years have passed, and by that time, they're in physical decline. If you want to make American rugby better, player-development pathways must be improved from top to bottom. Better coaching and infrastructure is absolutely necessary. But the money that's being put into this is not enough by several orders of magnitude, and there's no magic bullet coming any time soon. By contrast, athletes with rugby backgrounds can and routinely do translate into good and even great American Football players, provided that they move to the American game in their high-school years (ages 14-18). That said, I think it's safe to say that Louis Rees-Zammit will be returning to Wales and the Mother Code fairly soon, and for all the same reasons I mentioned in the first paragraph. The only truly successful rugby-to-American Football conversion is Jordan Mailata, the former Souths junior that's now an offensive lineman for the Philadelphia Eagles. Now if only the Iggles would put him in the backfield for goal-line situations and let him run with the ball once in a while..... FWIW, I don't count the flood of Australian kickers coming in to the NFL and NCAA as rugby-to-American Football crossovers, because most of them are coming from Australian Football and not rugby. Oh, and the King of Sevens Himself, Waisale Serevi, has probably made more money after he moved to Seattle and opened Serevi Sports (now known as Atavus), teaching rugby tackling skills to American Football players from youth to the NFL, than he ever did actually playing rugby. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but rugby union is a micro-niche sport in the US, and that will likely never change. Collegiate rugby is growing, but more and more clubs (FTWDK, all but a handful of collegiate rugby teams are not supported financially by their school's Athletic Department - what's known as "varsity" status - and are instead clubs operating on donations and run by volunteers) are prioritizing Sevens over XVs, and some don't play XVs at all. Major League Rugby is hemorrhaging money, and looking at negotiating a collective-bargaining agreement with a newly formed Player's Association which may end in players going on strike or owners locking out the players should an agreement not be reached by the beginning of the 2025 season, either of which would likely be fatal to the league. Long story short, MLR's short-term survival is by no means secured. There are thousands of amateur youth and senior clubs around the country, but they play locally for their regular season, and only the top finishers get invited to compete in Regional and National Championships. And some don't even play in this country. Here in the Pacific Northwest, the only two clubs that hold USA Rugby's Division I status (Seattle Rugby Club and Oregon Sports Union) play many of their matches against Canadian sides in the British Columbia Rugby Union's Premier Division, though their status in that league has been kinda murky ever since the pandemic. And there have been a few attempts to forge true nationwide competitions with Division I clubs, but none have managed to last for more than a year or two before collapsing. Even regional Division I leagues comprising of teams from multiple Regional Unions have failed repeatedly.
Success in international rugby is linked to national pride. The USA for some inexplicable reason don't like this concept. Instead they create and play American games.
Your average American likes American things - nothing wrong with that. Sports that are seen as foreign will never get the exposure or popularity as American football, basketball and baseball. Hell hockey has a hard time comparative to the NFL. Although soccer is on the rise, a lot of Americans find it hard looking past the players flopping, wether they understand or want to recognize that it’s part of the strategy - although as a big soccer fan I wish it wasn’t apart of the game. Rugby might have a chance to grow here, but I don’t think the MLR will get close to MLS popularity, which is already at the bottom of the totem pole
Their completely Useless the mentality of Pads and diapers and knee caps is a issue for them so they just have to stop trying cause this is way beyond trying is now called useless teams that started rugby way after USA Argentina Portugal have improved very much in rugby. However USA don’t worry you’re not completely useless we can still use you as examples to the future rugby players😂😂😂
Wales's best rugby star (Louis Rees-Zammit) has left a lucrative rugby career to attempt to play American Football, maybe that offers some explanation Maybe choose a smaller geographical area to make the 'home' of rugby in the USA to concentrate resources
RUgby has failed to grow. IT hasnt broken into any new markets and has struggled even in its strongholds. Rugby lacks thrill, lots of weird rules, lacks breathtaking athleticism also its very conservative i blame the federations the governing body and also Rgby players lack charisma "no larger than life personalities". Sport is abot being unpredictable, in Rgby we know only 4 teams can win the world cup. IN Football, Basketball,etc you never know. Its been close to 200 years and Still rugby is strggling.
I will tell you the fact that I have lived and this not being rude or spiteful. Title 9! This [Title 9] has made it seem unfair, basically showing male sports what women had to go through for years. But of course if you ask me for my politically correct response I will say that the American Sports Mafia, the NFL, MLB, NBA, T&F and those foundational giants keep other sports below them. Just watch how those sports are broadcasted versus all of the other sports in America. Like he said it’s all about money this is also why the USMNT soccer is not so good but the womens are.
u can’t just take a sec and try to say one good thing about the men’s eagles… u wonder why americans won’t watch this sport you push us away every chance u get.
IIIt comes down to getting the American athletic talents to buy in to rugby. The top athletes in America are all taken by other pro sports. The ones who just missed the cut to make those pro sports have moved on and are either becoming coaches in their respective sport or have pursued other careers. This is the talent that rugby needs to go after. I’m sorry but the talent currently playing for the USA men rugby are not on the level of elite athletes. They are part time athletes. The other major part and important one is finances and sponsorship. To attract these elite athletes to rugby you need money. The minimum salary for a bench player on an NFL team is $750k per year. If you want the talent you need to pay them a good amount salary to make it a viable career.
I dont think most rugby players give a s..t about the money more for the love of the game true sportsman more money means more corruption before 1995 rugby was amateur and they still played
@@Trajan2401 I agree if you grew up in a rugby country but we're not talking about passion. I get it, i grew up in the islands and we played both rugby and american football growing up. The question is why the US who is the top sports country with one of the best talents in the world cant field a competitive rugby team on the international level. Just like everything else, you need MONEY to compete at a high level - no matter what sport.
USA Rugby as an organization has been the biggest issue to developing a quality national side. USA Rugby does not involve itself in development, does not make an effort to support youth or collegiate sides, and chooses the national side based on which teams/coaches are in good favor with it and not just the quality of the players. It is obsessed with turning former football players into rugby players instead of starting from the ground up.
Not every sport can be big in America. Especially rugby and cricket might have to face an uphill battle since they are so similar to American football and baseball, respectively. Rugby struggles in traditional markets like England. I think that has to be fixed first. Grow the game in the traditional rugby-playing nations and be strategic about where to export it. For example, I think Germany has way more potential to become a rugby-playing nation than the US. What about Scandinavia or Eastern Europe? None of these countries do have an endzone sport that many people play yet. I know many people hate the following thought but both codes should reunite. Nowadays, people have more options than ever when it comes to picking sports or competions which they want to watch, so I think neither code will make it big on its own. Reunite, keep the best from both worlds and take it from there. Just my thoughts. 🤷♂️
At the end of the day, the problem to both codes of Rugby being established is going to be College Football. Rugby in the US will likely never develop because even if you get a player pool of people from ages 12-18, who are good enough to become professional, the likelihood is that College Football scouts will see them as having unique skill sets and offer them a scholarship. I know there are college scouts already offering deals to people in NZ and the wider Pacific (especially with the growth of Polynesian players in College and the NFL). The second major problem is that there's no established immigrant base to appeal to. MLS broke through to the masses because of Latin American and Southern/Eastern European immigration. Cricket is growing because there's a South Asian immigrant community willing to support it. A better strategy for World Rugby is to focus on Africa and Asia. Sometimes quantity of players is a better strategy than quality of money.
I believe in our ability to fail. USA Rugby is a disaster, stuck in the old boys mentality. The biggest problem is that their is no path to the national team. Okay your high school team just won a national, title you want to keep going in the sport you love, so you go to the top college program, where you are given basically no financial support, and your team is either so dominant you win guys without trying, or they drain you of talent by overplaying you. But you survive, national champions again. So now what, join a DI club in your local area, (Your DI club is national champs, cute but that not real rugby.) tryout for the MLR, (Great college into competing with international talent who has been playing for years good luck), who knows how to get scouted by a USA Rugby, maybe one of your coaches is an old hand and pulls you out for a trial but short of that their is no way to get nationals notice. So you have played your entire career being the best this country has to offer, and you can not even get a look because some coach has the big kid who used to play in the NFL. IF USA RUGBY HAD A PIPELINE, we can have a future.
There's always a way for an organization to graduate to a higher level, though it may take a generation. Look at Life Chiropractic College, starting in the 1980s. Somehow they had more than their share of enthusiastic ruggers, but they started in the Graduate and Professional School division because that's what their players affiliated with (even though at the time, the unions had no eligibility rules). They got to be where their A side was just too good for that, so they moved up in competition, just the A side. Soon they were competitive with the independent clubs, then the highest level of competition in the USA. Then they, along with a few other top tier clubs, broke off their A teams to form a Super League, which aspired to one day turn professional, so they relaxed their amateurism rules to allow for such expansion. That Super League never managed to turn pro, and was succeeded by another Super League organized more closely to the lines of the international Southern Hemisphere one, and although they too never managed to turn pro, they show how grass roots development is possible. And note that Life's lower sides kept playing among the professional school teams, so it's not like any of this came at the expense of guys who just plain enjoyed the game and weren't necessarily wizzes at it.
Americans believe that everything is strength. Rugby is a sport with many technical variants, it is not in one generation that success will be achieved, look at Italy; How long has she been a wooden spoon at 6 nations.
USA rugby the sleeping giant is probably not that accurate. The world has got a lot better and the USA is just one of many nations that have improved considerably. Stop thinking they are a top tier nation because they are a great sporting nation.
It mean they have the money and the population to make a rugby team that would absolutely dominate and likely win everything, but they just don't do it
@@AbeHopwoodif population was the reason they will dominate then why has New Zealand dominated with a population smaller than most US cities ? Most people thought that because of American football they could definitely dominate, but the games are too different to have that cross over.
@andyanderson5326 omfg, because they're SLEEPING. SLEEPING GIANTS. New Zealand love rugby to the point where the majority of them want to play it. America don't love rugby to the point where less Americans want to play it than kiwis. The point is that if America started playing rugby, with the population that they have they would have the opportunity to pick out some of the best athletes on earth. And their money means they could invest in elite training plans and playing conditions for their players.
I don’t think you get it ? You don’t need a large population to get the best athletes on earth. How is that a population like New Zealand actually dominates sports other than rugby. America don’t even dominate the sports they love and play. So why do you think they will dominate rugby ? The last time the All Blacks played the USA it was a cricket score. So sleeping giants is more of a pipe dream.
@andyanderson5326 you're trolling aren't you? My points stands with more than just rugby. I wouldn't be surprised if the new zealand football team could beat USA football team. The point is that less Americans want to play sports that the rest of the world love to play. Whether it's cricket, football, rugby etc. And what you said about them not dominating in the sports they play is just false. Theres a reason why USA have won the last 5 olympic gold medals for basketball. And if kansas city chiefs played an american football team from england I'd bet a LOT of money on the kansas city chiefs to win I don't understand why you keep arguing that new zealand is better than them with a smaller population because I know that ffs. Think about it like this: if New Zealand can be among the best I the world with such a small population, just think about how good America could be with on of the largest populations on earth
Why bother when you already have gridiron. Rugby union is a 19th century game, it needs serious modernisation. What is it outside of middle class UK, France and NZ? A glorified cult sport.
Actually I think RU's had too much modernization. A few of the big changes have been good, but most have made the game less tactically interesting, and the trend is still in the more boring direction. I'd like to see the game played by the laws of the 1960s with a few small adjustments and the 5-point try.
@@goodmaro it's been changed for player health. I read that as you just saying that they should play in the really dangerous way that lead to people having really bad health issues later in life
RUgby has failed to grow. IT hasnt broken into any new markets and has struggled even in its strongholds. Rugby lacks thrill, lots of weird rules, lacks breathtaking athleticism also its very conservative i blame the federations the governing body and also Rgby players lack charisma "no larger than life personalities". Sport is abot being unpredictable, in Rgby we know only 4 teams can win the world cup. IN Football, Basketball,etc you never know. Its been close to 200 years and Still rugby is strggling.
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I played 15s in college. We were a self funded club without any sponsorship. We played against large universities like The university of Michigan and Michigan state. Had no coach and we’re self taught in the sport and we were one of the top teams in the Midwest US at that time. Our self motivation helped develop the ladies program at the university and we coached the ladies based on the positions we played….. in my case it was loose head and tight head prop as well as 8 man.
If USA rugby wants to find good players, they need to reach out to the university clubs and the city side teams, especially in the mid west. They have talented athletes who don’t make the cut for American Football and love the game. I was one of those guys but didn’t have the outlet or exposure to move on to the next level in the US.
Rugby is the only sport I really follow and I have recently introduced it to my son. I hope that it continues to grow. I’d love to see him play.
@@syvajarvi2289 you and me both man. Good luck to young son. If he keeps at it he can possible be an Eagle
USA was beating Scotland and Samoa 6 years ago and things looked really bright.
Here is what happened:
1. The Union went bankrupt and players spend little time together before international games. The Europe based players tend to fly in last minute. Most training is on Zoom.
2. MLR has meant that lots of US players who played at a reasonable professional level came back to the USA and now play at a lower level and lost fitness.
3. The US invested in the approach of building a professional leage as a means of raising the level of the national team. Teams like Chile, Portugal put all or most their players in one team, playing in a regional competition. When Covid struck, the US players barely saw each other for years, while Chile and Portugal were able to train regularly. They also field a virtual national team in regional competitions against other virtual national teams. They got better, the US got worse.
4. For many US domestic players in the MLR, the MLR is not professional. They have to work on the side. This makes the sport difficult to play and a number of promising young players drop out to take up a career. Some USA internationals have part time jobs.
5. Even some USA internationals have work committments and can't always be available for the national team.
6. MLR teams often do the fitness and conditioning sessions during the daytime, when some of the local players have to work.
7. The US traditionally played a more attacking gameplan based around the fact that the strengths were athletic back row players, strong midfielders and fast wings. Due to lack of time together, Gary Gold prioritized a kicking / maul game that was supposed to beat Chile and Portugal. It wasn't, and now the team has lost it's style.
8. One of the USA's best props, Tito Lamositele, tried to get on the Samoa WC squad. He failed, but played one game for them, so is now ineligible for the Eagles. Roman Salanoa, USA born and raised, is on the bench for Munster, but turns down USA caps as he then loses Ireland eligibility and becomes a non-EU player, meaning Munster would immediately release him.
9. The USA no longer seem to produce any players who are good enough to be recruited by European pro teams. In the past they had guys like Samu Manoa, Blaine Scully, Scott Lavalla etc.
10. There are no US eligible players in either the MLR or abroad playing fullback regularly.
11. MLR coach mentality seems to be 'why play a young American guy when you can get a South African journeyman'
12. Thew new US coach isn't picking the best players and despite claiming he will look to the future has been selecting older players who have not performed.
I'm sure there is more.
Really good listing - thank you.
I don't know if this is still the case, but RU internationals on US soil seem to be for the financial benefit of the visitors and the union don't see a lot of money from them. This all seems like a horrendous mess and a lot of work's going to have to be put in over the 8 years. The Anthem thing seems to be an intervention in the classic sense.
I won’t go point by point but generally disagree with you.
The MLR is proving to be the very structure needed to build the foundation of a far better prepared and organized national team.
While the quota of US eligible players is on the low side, I believe that is going to change as development pathways gain maturity - academy sides within MLR developing players for instance.
The just completed European tour was dominated by MLR players. They beat three teams that each play very different styles. The U.S. proved to be adaptable.
I watched all these matches and the difference between this side and past sides was clear. Where past sides would fall apart after a player made an error, this one showed the ability to absorb those errors and just get on with the game.
Examples: the U.S. faced a 20 minute red card and scored two tries. They faced a yellow card and scored a try.
I agree that losing Lamisotele was a loss, but he wanted to play in a WC and this time round, we didn’t make it. But was t he on sides that failed to qualify? And our scrum looked better than in past years on this just completed tour.
With a pro league in place, academy programs developing home grown talent and a better national team schedule, the Eagles are better positioned for success than at any other time.
David Ainu is prop at Toulouse, arguably the best club in Europe. He is not N°1 at his post, but plays regularly, in starting position for some matches.
As a teenager living in the USA who has played and watched rugby for years, it hurts me really deeply to watch this video and know that you’re telling the truth. I want US rugby to succeed so badly but I just don’t see a future where that happens. There’s literally 5 teams in my state at my age level. And the quality is nothing like what you get in Europe. Here’s hoping that we get our act together enough for the home World Cup
World Rugby is on your side and they WILL NOT QUIT till it starts working, every dog has his day!
I was a teenager 25yrs ago with the same hope and expectations for usa rugby to be better as time passes. Unfortunately we are in the same position if not below the standard that I knew of back in the days, and even then, the standard was low (compared to what it could have been with the right selectors).
@@HuwGriffinRugby World Rugby is doing the wrong thing (unless I'm blaming the wrong people) promoting non-contact rugby for children. There's not much reason to play touch rugby when you could as well play touch or flag (American) football. You might get to run more, but that's the last thing the bigger, slower children who'd enjoy and be good at rucking and mauling would want.
The US women’s rugby team just took bronze at the Olympics there … 👀
yup! the women showing the way!
7's not 15's. The 7's is pro, because it is centrally funded. The US 15's team has been going backwards for some time.
@HuwGriffinRugby Women's rugby does fill a niche because there's no real version of American Football for women. It's the same reason why the USWNT does better than USMNT.
This didn’t age all that well. The Eagles have just concluded a 3-0 sweep in their recently completed European tour.
The team looked quite good in the process. They started the tour at 19 and are now 15.
MLR is a slow burn. It’s not going to launch like a rocket but burn slowly. For all the criticism of the lack of US players, the majority of players in this squad are a product of MLR. One of the standouts of the Eagle squad has been Conor Mooneyham, who has come up through the domestic pathway.
i love my countrymen. 🇺🇸
but huw isn’t gonna talk about it bc his takes are garbage😒
Sorry, but maybe a controversial opinion, investing in the US is a complete waste of time and money. It will never take off, MLS has already stolen the small market cap that was open to Rugby in the 2000's. Its too late now. Money would be much better served in South America and Europe, where the game actually shows signs of growth. Investment in Spain, Portugal and Belgium in Europe is urgently needed. Investment in Chile, Uruguay, Argentina and Peru is urgently needed. These countries don't offer short term financial gain like the US does, but they do offer further long term growth opportunities into Brazil, the Netherlands, Germany and Eastern Europe. It offers a far more realistic long term plan for growth. The money will come eventually from these markets.
I hear your points but USA can grow even more with more involvement of some the more demographics in the USA
Bad take for sure. Comparing professional rugby to the MLS is not a fair comparison. The MLS has almost 30 years to build a brand while the MLR is not even 10. It takes time, dedication, talent growth, and luck. With the USA hosting the World Cup in 203? Whatever it allows the sport to grow. It’s all about visuals. While it’s an uphill battle it’s still growth in our sport we all love.
I think it could also be a good choice to invest in Namibia or something like Kenya who are also growing.
@@awsomerobyn2603African rugby seems to get no attention from World Rugby. Kenya and Zimbabwe should be a real focus to further develop the game there
Nothing controversial about it. USA and Canada both failed to capitalise on the prospect of genuine international competition and both have lost too much ground to soccer to make any real growth likely. Plus sevens and the Olympics is where the interest is.
USA's situation aside, as a South African I'm just stunned that we have had the WC once in SA, won it four times, lost hosting to France, under some seriously shady circumstances, who, mind you, have never won it and who had it as recently as 4 World Cups ago and have now hosted it 3 times. Now it's off to the US, where 5000 people attended their last national game.....and then next up we have Australia, who've hosted it twice before and will be hosting it for a third time. They've won the WC once.
Great reward for winning it 4 times. Thanks, WR.
you say that france won the organization against you in a shady way, but you don't mind winning the world cup in a way that's not shady but shameful, SA corruption at every level!
Good points
Idk maybe it's the crime rates, rolling blackouts or the annoying fans making everything about that 3rd world country. This video has zero to do with you. Kindly piss off
@@jeramy576 A very touchy little snowflake you are. Bless you. SA hosted the football World Cup less crime than France has already affecting its current Olympic athletes. They also seem to have a little issue with terrorism, currently. If you think SA fans are annoying you should see, I don’t know, the rest of sports fans across the globe.
I don’t think calling SA out for being a third world country try has as much impact as you think it does. Kinda just makes it a little embarrassing how many first world countries lack 4 world cups. Also don’t think making the point that the US national team is currently being propped up by world rugby to avoid the hosts being embarrassed at home, while four time WC winning SA has only hosted it once, is “making everything about SA”. It’s a legitimate point made in criticism of World Rugby and its management.
So, if you’d like to go ahead with more ad hominem attacks on SA and our socioeconomic status, please feel free, but the fact remains, the World Cup should have been hosted in SA last year, but wasn’t, thanks to some creative negotiations on behalf of French Rugby, and now it’s headed to the US, population, 5000 fans.
Kindly get poesed.
As a fellow Saffa I can tell you it is politics that gets us. For the France WC even Rugby Africa voted against us and went for France. Beaumont doesn't like us and WR suffer us because they have to. So us winning world cups annoys them till no end😂
NRL is making a push to promote rugby league in USA with games in Vegas. They'll have a game on primetime on Fox (free to air) next year. Will be interesting to see what (if any) impact that has on union in the US.
The Hawks U20s entered the U20s euro championships and won 3 matches. I think the roosters have a pathways program in America, and an American junior from that program made the junior Hawks roster.
Super league really messed with the Wolfpack.
@@JRPete Uruguay, Kenya and the Netherlands. Not exactly top teams. Lost 48-10 to Scotland. To put it in context, Scotland didn't come close to winning a game in the u20's 6 nations.
>Me watching MLR from Aotearoa cause it's more exciting than Super Rugby
What?
The tier one nations had a century head start and you're expecting a country without the infrastructure, traditions and culture, and the resources to compete with teams that have been playing the game for longer. On top of that, when you have to try and build up something with limited funds that have to be spread evenly among the teams in USA rugby, you will see uneven results. So while the US Women's team has done well and the men haven't, it has also had the benefit of not seeing the likes of the tier one nations and traditional rugby nations like the Pacific Islands invest into that side of the game until fairly recently. This lack of decades of investment and culture around the game has given the tier one nations a leg up. Rome wasn't built in a day and while things have been rocky recently with USA Rugby, it at least is admitting there's a problem and are addressing it unlike say the USSF with the American soccer national teams. To say that it is a failure when it is only three decades old is like saying an expansion team is a failure only three years into its existence. It's attitudes like this that hold rugby back and make people become alienated from the game only to pick up other sports instead. Would you call the national team of Italy a failure? They're a so called 'tier one nation' and haven't once gotten out of the group stage in the World Cup and continue getting wooden spoons at the Six Nations while continuing to rack up losses to non tier one nations in embarrassing fashion. Is Germany's national team a failure? This is a country that has been playing rugby for hundreds of years and still hasn't been able to attract interest in the game for a country of a little over 83 million people, nor has been able to crack the World Cup once. Is Zimbabwe's national team a failure? They haven't been able to make the World Cup since 1991 and this is despite the fact that the game of rugby is the second most popular sport besides cricket and is prioritized in the development of the game there over other nations by World Rugby for the history of the game in that country. You can look at a majority of the non traditional rugby nations and find reasons to say they have 'failed'. And you would look silly for doing so. Has the US Men's National Rugby Team failed? No. Underachieved given its potential over the past three decades? Yes. However, 2019 seems to have been a wake up call and USA Rugby is doing a lot of good things to improve the sport and the quality of the national team.
Well said. The US has a very rich sports tradition. But America barely became tier 2 until the new cup that came out. The gaping canyon between the two and one is insane. I saw Canada vs Scotland with my own eyes
. Well worth mentioning also that the US is working with the dregs of the dregs of the dregs. American football, hockey, basketball and baseball get to pick the best athletes and even after that sports like soccer and lacrosse get their pickings. Considering this the US should be commended. T1 nations can help if they want to by doing more series. Do a Lions series here, send the BarBars in every year for a few years. Get a Pacific Islanders Lions (with a better name obviously) and send them on series. This is how the game grows!
The more accurate way to look at it is that there was no century+ head start. The USA and Canada were among the few first nations outside the British Isles to take up rugby football. But bhat was then the RFU (ancestor to World Rugby) in 1876 spurned the Intercollegiate Football Association's request for clarification of some of the Laws of the Game -- they literally were unplayable, you can read about it in Titley and McWhirter, but they preferred to handle it by informal understanding in England -- the IFA was left to their own devices, and the American and Canadian teams, which had been playing pre-RFU versions of rugby, came up with their own, non-contradictory clarifications, and then the IFA and Canadian unions decided to maintain their own rules and ignore the RFU. The result has been the huge enterprise of American and Canadian football. So it's really Rugby Union that was left behind.
@@goodmaro Yes, the USA was one of the first to pick up the sport of rugby union. And yes, the RFU were arrogant to not listen to the changes made by the IFA and Canada. The USA and Canada also lost any and all tangible experience in rugby union by the 1920s and had to start from scratch in the late 80s. And when I mean from scratch, I mean from ground zero. The US had to completely restart fresh in order to catch up with the big players in the sport. And to rebuild from nothing takes time. We're seeing that now and there's even a question of which form of rugby does the USA embrace more going forward. Does it embrace Rugby Union or Rugby League? Both sports are vying for America's attention, with Rugby Union having an edge as the USA has the second highest participation numbers in all of World Rugby.
Honestly this shows a poor understanding of what goes on here. Ok guy, you can stop right there. The ARC was huge for us and it gave us the platform to beat Scotland. That All Blacks game was a joke, but there's plenty of reasons why that occurred.
I blame the British for keeping the rugby game amateur for almost all of last century; not wanting to go professional and nations like the USA never improving. Same about Germany, they established their rugby back in 1900, and the British (Especially England) didn’t care developing and helping the Germans competitive. Imagine USA and Germany in the top 5 in World Rugby rankings had the British opened up to professionalism earlier on and not choose to be Elitist Poofs?
The IRB home nations were against the Rugby world cup when it was first proposed. It was NZ and Australia who pushed for it and hosted the first tournament. Once they saw how popular it proved saw them jump on board very quickly.
No it was Hitler that stopped the growth of rugby in Germany he banned it for political reasons.
@@MrAhuapaithey still act like that. Portugal played last week against South Africa because they invited us after the last WC. We are playing Scotland in November but never have we ever played any of the other home nations outside a WC despite them being our neighbors.
Many keep begging for the 6 Nations to change format to give Georgia and Portugal and chance but that will never happen. They are a closed shop that’s perfectly happy with the money they make in those 5 weekends each year and have no interest in growing the game elsewhere, especially now that Georgia and Portugal have shown that they could beat Italy and Wales (in 2022 Georgia beat Wales and Portugal lost by a mere 7 points to Italy. Portugal was maybe at 20% the strength it is nowadays).
The other big sliding doors moment was Rugby League in France. Rugby League had quickly gained massive momentum in France in the years following the expulsion of the French Union team from the 6 Nations for “suspected professionalism” with large numbers of clubs switching to League. However, after the Vichy took over they effectively outlawed Rugby League viewing it as an overly progressive insurgent sport and they confiscated all assets of the game, giving them over to the FFR. I’ve long thought that if they hadn’t had that momentum stripped from them, Rugby Union would have effectively died in France and looked more like it does in Australia, with Rugby League thriving in its place.
@@joelmonteiro1419The old boys club is still well and truly alive. They simply give lip service to the Tier 2 teams and are not including them in anything meaningful
Hot take, but if America didn’t have American football we would be a world power house in rugby
facts
Most people here have never seen rugby, and have interesting views on it. I show rugby to people, they tend to get interested in it. I think exposure is a major, major issue.
Rugby is the father of American football.
@@pionieresvizzero2224 and few here know that
I'm glad USA rugby is back in the 2024 World Rugby Pacific Nations Cup. Basically Japan and Fiji are considered Tier 1 Rugby nation on a good day...hehehe..this will be good for USA rugby development
I'm only a minute into this video, and it's already confusing. It seems you're referring to a *team* of each sex by "USA Rugby". Please, if you mean the national side, say "Eagles". USA Rugby is the organization formerly called USARFU, the national union for the game. If you say it failed at something, I'm imagining some organization problem, not the fortunes of select sides in competition.
Women’s rugby saving us 🙏
ahmen!
Some of these South American teams have been playing Rugby for decades. Same with Eastern European countries like Romania who toured NZ when I was a kid. The Puma are no pushover. Georgia is no pushover. These guys get to play tier one nations.
And the United States hasn't had any tournaments to play in at all since before the pandemic so that they can test themselves and get better. Reserve players can't get better as players if they don't have the ability to play against the best. For the USA, and Canada as well, to get better, they regularly need to play in a tournament with semi equal competition regularly to improve.
Almost all Pumas are playing outside Argentina since the demise of the Jaguares franchise due to Covid. England, France, even 1 in New Zealand. Georgia: half of the national team plays in the home franchise Black Lions, the other half plays in France; same situation for Portugal. These players rub shoulders with Tier 1 squads players.
so many issues I don't know where to begin....But I believe it is largely financial...if you can't afford to support you and your family on a rugby salary...how can you compete with someone who can
Try to convince me this is a problem. Why should I care about the standing of a side that plays way, way above the level I played at? No matter how the Eagles do, the game remains the most fun you can have knocking around with others without having the cops come to break it up.
I see much of the same problem in American football, where I coach children. Too many people focus on trying to develop players for "the next level", at which most of them will never play.
Even if you get to the top level of a competitive game, *it's still a game.*
Well said, good sir.
On the one hand I agree with you - it is a great way to just have a good bit of fun and have an excuse to have a few drinks with some guys you just tackled the crap out of.
On the other hand, US viewership is highly sought after and can inject a lot of money into the world game.
@@randomlyfactual1943 Why does the world game need more money? I doubt more than 1 in 1,000 will notice the difference between that much more money and no more money.
The most entertaining NFL football on TV was in games between the "scab" (strikebreaking) teams during the strike of 1986. The only dull games were where one team was stocked with existing talent and the other not due to differential access to payment during the strike. Where the clubs were equal, the games were more interesting, not less, despite the much-lowered cash flow.
@@goodmaro I hear you. We have a schoolboy game on this week called the Interschools, between Paarl Boys High and Paarl Gimnasium. Expected to pull a 25k crowd at least.
But this is Africa, and we have a ton of underprivileged people. Development here really helps and the money often goes to amateur players who don't have anything to eat. If applied in places such as our rural areas, Zimbabwe or Kenya, it might change someone's life for the better
I believe the Virgin media group should capitalize on this moment and create a channel called the Virgin Sports channel and start showing Rugby. And out bid the rugby rights from Flo Sports & NBC sports. And also Televise some Cricket matches to
great content, learnt alot hope to see more
thanks!
The problem is also they rearly play top tier nations and similar to geogia don't get good exposure except autumn and summer tests. The MLR is a start but if the mlr put restrictions on players from other nation's. I feel the union and mlr need to get together and find a way to fix them. Also there is a contested sports market there to.
Do it like the IPL. Have a quota for American players
The reason we will not excel at Rugby in the US is because it is played by Big physical players, and we have a sport here American Football that requires the same athlete, and the elites get paid so much more than any Rugby player will ever make, then there are spring football leagues now that pay more than Rugby.... Long story short is our athletes that don't make it in Football that end up playing Rugby against the best of other nations... I as a die hard fan of American football fan, and learning to really like Rugby enjoy watching South Africa, New Zealand, Ireland and England because they are the best and I want to watch the best at any sport, and the top players from every nation.. I hope that made sense, Greetings from Miami to all!
They don't play just for the money they play for the love of the game true sportsman more money just means more corruption no thanks
@@Trajan2401😂
yep, makes sense! thanks!
what you got against the French? is it coz of the Olympic opening ceremony? understandable
@@Trajan2401 Romantic but if any of us have a choice we would make more money if not for ourselves for our families and friends, that's why we work for a living, and want to earn more to provide. I am not trying to be a jerk I am only voicing the why a huge country like ours is not elite even though on paper we have an advantage, we have millions playing college Football which is a religion in our country, and only a few end up playing in the NFL the most profitable league in the world, so you are not only competing as Rugby against the NFL athlete but all those aspiring to maybe one day make it in the big league. It's not our sport, we don't have to be the best at all sports, I love South African Rugby, it's such a huge part of the fabric of that country, and it means so much to the people there, and I love it!
i hate that many rugby fans from around the world hate on the usa.
No hate here! just telling the story :) the womens team is who we're backing in WXV1 this year!
I don't think it's hate. Everybody wants the US to do well. However it's undeniable that the US should not be hosting the WC and the funds given to the US would have been much better used in South America or Tier 2 Europe
I'm from the UK and I follow old glory!
@@standard12th66 It's all about World Rugby and the Tier One unions milking the biggest cash cow.
That said, you'd think that they would've learned their lesson after the disastrous Sevens World Cup held in a baseball stadium. And unless WR moves the 2031 RWC to the summer, it'll be an apocalyptic failure. If the RWC is held in its normal slot in October, there won't be a single large rectangular stadium available on the continent because of the NFL and NCAA, unless they've already booked out the necessary dates for the RWC by now - and I really mean RIGHT NOW. And what WR is failing to take into consideration is that most American rugby union fans are also fans of their local professional and collegiate American Football teams, and no matter their passion for the Mother Code, the NFL and NCAA will always come first in the fall. That's why MLR starts its season in January, and why MLS plays most of its season during the American Football offseason, to avoid the proverbial oxygen getting sucked out of the league by the biggest, richest professional sports league in the world, and the collegiate system that's even bigger than the NFL.
Not the US’s fault, but becoming the spoiled child of WR will do that to you.
For me I think the issue which has been alluded to in the comments section is that the game needs to be played consistently at schools level. The more schools that play it, the higher the standard will be and if there is investment in school sports, then the standard will go up. The kids need to pick up the nuances of the game from a young age as rugby is a chaotic sport at the best of times and to understand this chaos and nuances you have to be well versed in it. A good foundation will help the sport grow.
I agree rugby in the USA needs to be pick up at the kids level or younger there are programs in the USA known as The Rookie rugby for the youth and kids need to build up more and more programmes like it the more the better there is the high school youth
programmes through out America from the famous highland high school to nexsavier high need to be more and more involved to the colleges from the teams like BYU The CAL Bears Saint Mary's Army and Navy the two great college comps USA College Rugby and NCR National Collegiate Rugby and to all of the American Club Rugby comps the likes of Balmont Shore Rugby Football Club to Old Blue New York Rugby Football Club that's the grassroots rugby level sorted out and then on to Major League Rugby the highest rugby level in America playing for the MLR teams then on to The USA EAGLES which is even higher level this being international test rugby
rugby in the usa at the moment and for awhile is too divided and fractured too much division among the rugby administration bodys for there own thing
they all Must aline to one another work together on a united front all need to support one another all are strong together every single level of rugby through out the Rugby Landscape of The United States Of America when every level of rugby is strong
The USA EAGLES Rugby Team is strong and a cohesive unit
and have a good infrastructure in place from the Botton up and top down at all levels of rugby in the USA which money must be invested into the grassroots level of rugby in America a project like this will take up too 10 or 15 years to work
@@jonathonwhitiora8102 Thanks for this highly informative response. Your Sevens programme gives hope that if a few things are sorted, then there will be more countries playing at a very high level. Wish you guys the best for the future.
I 100% percent agree with you
Maybe having a health care system which is wildly expensive discourages people from taking up contact sports
that came up in the research, definitely a factor although it doesnt hold back nfl for some reason? more help from above maybe?
@@HuwGriffinRugby The NFL offers huge financial rewards and is fed by college football which is well resourced. You can’t say the same for US rugby. It’s also worth looking at the percentage of Canadians playing in the NHL. Kids in Canada love hockey and those who play often pick up injuries. Would their parents be so keen if each time that happened they had to pay thousands just for an ambulance ride?
@@johngamba4823how come hockey and football are such popular sports then?
Stupid take
Hilarious take... Healthcare I don't get I have family in England and they hate the wait time for medical care they experience, yet our healthcare is terrible because our Insurance companies are horrible... But bad take, we have more physical sports as mentioned by others with Football, Hockey and Wrestling in the midwest.
Rugby is profitable in Australia and most likely in New Zealand. In Australia, it is probably in the top three most profitable sports in the country, the other two being Australian Rules Football and cricket
I feel rugby struggles for the same reason soccer struggles. You can't show more commercials than game in a determined timeslot.
That's a network broadcast problem, not a viewer problem.
Rugby's real problem is a lack of viewership outside of the tier 1 nations. Even then, world rugby doesn't capitalise on the 'lesser nations' that do tune in to the sport. Germany apparently had 9.5 million viewers watching the 2019 RWC, World rugby did nothing to keep them engaged. Madagascar's national sport is rugby and they even have more registered players than Scotland. again, nothing being done to make the most out of this.
World Rugby's original plan was to expand the RWC to 24 teams in 2031, the only reason they brought it forward four years for Australia in 2027 was because the last thing they wanted was for the hosts to have failed to have qualified for the previous two tournaments. That's a real sign of desperation by the sport's governing body.
I'm a bit worried when people say "we'll just need 1% of the market". It is incredibly hard to get to a 1% market share in any market. The US sports market is the most competitive in the world, and everyone and their mother is trying to get a piece of it. Forget about taking on the NFL, try to beat out Ultimate Frisbee and bowling first. It's hard to find reliable numbers but the football (soccer) market is now around 5-6% after decades of investment and development and the benefit of global (cultural) appeal and the presence of large middle and south america communities. Getting a fifth of that would be an immense task. To put it differently: getting market share of 1% would mean getting 800 million in revenue. What does that mean? Now we will get in fantasy territory. Imagine that a highly successful US Eagles team manages to get the same amount of income as the richest Union in the world, the RFU. Thats around 200 million (the ballpark figure of what the English Rugby team brings in). If you manage to sell out big football stadiums and sell the fans a lot of overpriced beer that might be possible. That still leaves 600 million though. So the biggest and richest clubs in the world, the French giants, bring in about 40-45 million in revenue. Lets round it up to an even 50. So practically you need a league in the US/Canada with 12 clubs the size of Toulouse. I realise these are all estimates and ballpark figures but the point is that rugby needs to stop chasing these unrealistic dreams to distract from its actual problems and opportunities.
I also don't get the strategy to build up the sport from the top. The US already is one of the largest unions when it comes to member count. A successful national team is the key to building a profile. Test level rugby players can be created. If you put your most talented 12 year olds in a high quality pathway you will create a team that can get into a RWC quarter final.
So... basically they need a country like New Zealand smacked down anywhere no matter where as long it on the states of United States? Have 1000 rows of crops ready to introduce to the world's Ethan De Groot, Codie Taylor. Tyrell Lomax - Mighty Williams, Asofa Aumua, Paslio Tosi - Ofa Tu'ungafasi, George Bell and Fletcher Newell something like this
"Anthem" is the most American team name ever.
I think you hit the nail on the head there and huge problem is American football for the development of rugby union in the United States. The types of athletes that played both sports are far too similar and those far far more money and tradition in American football in the United States, then rugby union. Rugby union bike Association football a.k.a. soccer requires at least to begin training at a very early age to gain a sense of how the game is played it’s flow and all the nuances that make for world class players. But another issue is the pay for play problems. Rugby is not played in most schools in the United States, the United States athletic programs tied to the education system. So if you want to play rugby in the United States at a young age you have to have a club nearby and be able to afford it. This is very very unlikely here in the United States for young people to pick up the game early so in general American rugby players to start playing pick the game up after they’ve already played some sort of American football, and a bit older they never really gained the same sense of the game as players from other nations who picked up the sport at a young age and just have a better sense at the game. So rugby has the worst of both soccer and American football too many of the athletes and American athletes don’t pick up the game early enough to become really proficient at the games played.
Love the pod 🤝 subscribed to the channel now
legend!
wait until they get my boy alex lee on that team
Great video again
thanks!
There’s no cohesion with the team The players don’t play with each other regularly It’s like an all-star team that gets put together once a year
Plus, USA Rugby is inefficient and poorly managed as a business
-an American
thank you - a pirate
What I can't understand is why you just don't have every country that can compete in a tournament be there
More money just means more corruption rugby players play more for the love of the game than the money true sportsman before 1995 rugby was amateur yet it didnt stop people wanting to play the game same with hurling,Gaelic football and AFL they are all amateur but are the biggest sports in Ireland and Australia money ain't everything btw softball doesn't even register in NZ they would be lucky to have a 1000 players yet they dominated softball for 20 years so saying rugby is a niche sport in the US is an excuse NZ win many niche sports with only 5 million like your very own Americas cup
Rugby old days was the love of rugby and the passions. Today is money = Corruption + steroids lol
it’s videos like these where you scare away any kind of new rugby fans in the usa. u got bored and decided “let’s make a video burying a nation who’s trying to get better” bravo 👏🏾
2026-2028 Super Rugby Pasifikas expansion hence Japan and Argentina returning and U.S
@@JDaicos280🤓☝️
The optimism: this is probably the best opportunity to push rugby to an American audience there's ever been. There's growing dissatisfaction with American Football from a not insignificant portion of that audience because of what they view as the "softening" of the sport. Rugby, if nothing else, has always been viewed here as a "tough guys" sport. There's headway here to be made with solid investment in the pro, amateur, recreational and youth levels.
The cynicism: There is never going to be the money to put into the game here because, fundamentally, the game is at odds with how American sports teams make their money: Advertising. The game isn't set up to allow for extensive commercial breaks the way that Football, Baseball, and (to a slightly lesser extent) basketball are. With out the traditional advertising opportunities, the ROI for just isn't there for these advertisers to justify spending the money that would be necessary to push the sport.
The solution may be in making the GameDay experience INCREDIBLY fan focused; cheap tickets, cheap drinks, cheap food, big pre-game tailgate parties with meet and greets, contests, give aways, games for the kids. Parking lots on match day should basically be a carnival. Play in smaller more intimate stadiums that allow really up close and personal interaction with the game and its players. Bring the fans in with a unique gameday experience and THEN chase the advertising dollars.
The USA is not a “sleeping giant” We are very much awake and playing American football…😂at least we try to play Rugby. Most of Europe along with the rest of the world probably besides Germany/Japan n a couple African Nations are deadly afraid of seriously touching the pigskin for some reason 😭
because the game sucks
@@thewhitedoncheadle8345 your a hater
Your game ripped off rugby ,and made it crap.No body is scared of fbash ball its just crap 😂
@@Stephen-lx9nm I truly feel sorry for u that u actually think that… American football is quite literally one of the most complex sports to play at the highest level. Teenagers don’t play professional AF because it would pretty much kill them. I suggest u look into a replica NFL playbook u can get ones from as close too 4 yrs ago… shit is bigger than the Bible 🤣🤣 which needs to be memorized regardless of position btw. Which also includes ur coaches and coordinators systems
@@Stephen-lx9nm Then u have the disproportional amount of volatility that comes with AF compared to any other team sport… it is statistically the hardest sport to stay at the top level of consistency at. Funny enough the MLB is right behind them n that’s mostly because of baseballs farm system and minor leagues
You could write the same script about Canada: from 1991 q-finalists to also not qualifying for 2023--the first time they've not qualified for the RWC. A quick check of the comments in Rugby Canada's RUclips posts shows a litany of calls for Kingsley Jones' head. As the head of Rugby Canada, he is largely at fault for the decline of the program. Do Canadian rugby a favour and do a summary of this program in the doldrums.
search 'Canada rugby: tale of two sexes' on this channel!
Wow, seeing this all laid out is beautiful. There are so many bits and pieces that can be added on to why the United States isn’t a rugby nation.
Partially, union might not be the best for the United States .. maybe we are a League country at our core..
But our issues for failure are systemic on many levels ..
Expensive Healthcare doesn’t help the process… the expensive road to getting to the top levels..
And our national bodies underdeveloped approach to youth Rugby is also an issue..
I literally could talk about this for days
haha we try and stick to 'mini' docs but definitely could have been 2 hrs!
@@HuwGriffinRugby absolutely 2hrs..
But we will see how we progress onto the WORLD CUP and next Olympics..
Check out Moonshot by USA 15s HC Scott Lawrence… he has a plan that you can read..
ranked #15 but we are failing?
If rugby was as big as the NFL, they would be a serious force to be reckoned with, but eish😂
MLR is fighting against budget monsters like the NFL and the NBA, they can't compete on the same level field. They need to implement a different format that will engage the public to follow the games. Rugby in the US needs relegation. This will mean that every game will be important. Second point is to call on foreign players but with a quota. You want american players to learn from foreign players and replicate. This will only be a 10 years plan minimum and the effect won't appear for the next WC but they might for the one after.
Can i just say the main issue is finding players who want to play as oppose to converting athletes to change their mindset. What i mean is to seek the demographic around the country of expat UK, especially pacific islanders and you would be surprised how many Asians are vested in the game hence Japan making waves.
If you look at the bigger picture, they're all screwed. The world is getting older, so in the future it'll be a shrinking portion of the population who'll want to play contact sports -- or really, any sports except maybe some non-competitive ones. Maybe the best example of where things are going in competitive sports has been the rise of pickleball, which strongly resembles the old people's sport of paddle tennis.
Mate chile is prounces the same as chilli
I heard John Kirwan say that the USA need some of the NFL type players
they need that calibre of athlete for sure, you'd think some skills are transferable? (i know nothing about NFL)
@@HuwGriffinRugbyyes we need fringe college football players who won’t get drafted in the nfl to start playing in the mlr
No. Glendale has tried this failed miserably. Look at the Glendale American Raptor cross over program. Targeted this particular group. It needs to be a grass roots movement like in every other country. We need more time on the ball and more tournament play to encourage growth.
Not gonna happen. Why? Well, American Football skills don't translate well to XVs. In Sevens, superior athleticism can overcome a more astute and tactically sound player, but the player coming in to rugby at 22 will spend their peak athletic years not really knowing the game as well as a player that came into the game as a child, and has been training in rugby ever since, and by the time they've finally reached that understanding, several years have passed, and by that time, they're in physical decline.
If you want to make American rugby better, player-development pathways must be improved from top to bottom. Better coaching and infrastructure is absolutely necessary. But the money that's being put into this is not enough by several orders of magnitude, and there's no magic bullet coming any time soon.
By contrast, athletes with rugby backgrounds can and routinely do translate into good and even great American Football players, provided that they move to the American game in their high-school years (ages 14-18). That said, I think it's safe to say that Louis Rees-Zammit will be returning to Wales and the Mother Code fairly soon, and for all the same reasons I mentioned in the first paragraph. The only truly successful rugby-to-American Football conversion is Jordan Mailata, the former Souths junior that's now an offensive lineman for the Philadelphia Eagles. Now if only the Iggles would put him in the backfield for goal-line situations and let him run with the ball once in a while.....
FWIW, I don't count the flood of Australian kickers coming in to the NFL and NCAA as rugby-to-American Football crossovers, because most of them are coming from Australian Football and not rugby. Oh, and the King of Sevens Himself, Waisale Serevi, has probably made more money after he moved to Seattle and opened Serevi Sports (now known as Atavus), teaching rugby tackling skills to American Football players from youth to the NFL, than he ever did actually playing rugby.
I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but rugby union is a micro-niche sport in the US, and that will likely never change. Collegiate rugby is growing, but more and more clubs (FTWDK, all but a handful of collegiate rugby teams are not supported financially by their school's Athletic Department - what's known as "varsity" status - and are instead clubs operating on donations and run by volunteers) are prioritizing Sevens over XVs, and some don't play XVs at all.
Major League Rugby is hemorrhaging money, and looking at negotiating a collective-bargaining agreement with a newly formed Player's Association which may end in players going on strike or owners locking out the players should an agreement not be reached by the beginning of the 2025 season, either of which would likely be fatal to the league. Long story short, MLR's short-term survival is by no means secured.
There are thousands of amateur youth and senior clubs around the country, but they play locally for their regular season, and only the top finishers get invited to compete in Regional and National Championships. And some don't even play in this country. Here in the Pacific Northwest, the only two clubs that hold USA Rugby's Division I status (Seattle Rugby Club and Oregon Sports Union) play many of their matches against Canadian sides in the British Columbia Rugby Union's Premier Division, though their status in that league has been kinda murky ever since the pandemic. And there have been a few attempts to forge true nationwide competitions with Division I clubs, but none have managed to last for more than a year or two before collapsing. Even regional Division I leagues comprising of teams from multiple Regional Unions have failed repeatedly.
It’s crazy that rugby thinks it can just tackle all of America instead of one state at a time.
They dont play much agains big team like the football team and clubs need also start playing in higher tournaments.
Success in international rugby is linked to national pride. The USA for some inexplicable reason don't like this concept.
Instead they create and play American games.
Your average American likes American things - nothing wrong with that. Sports that are seen as foreign will never get the exposure or popularity as American football, basketball and baseball. Hell hockey has a hard time comparative to the NFL. Although soccer is on the rise, a lot of Americans find it hard looking past the players flopping, wether they understand or want to recognize that it’s part of the strategy - although as a big soccer fan I wish it wasn’t apart of the game. Rugby might have a chance to grow here, but I don’t think the MLR will get close to MLS popularity, which is already at the bottom of the totem pole
Soccer is also very much seen as a game young kids and Europeans play to your average blue collar American
To think that a schoolboy game in South Africa draws more fans than a MLR final speaks volumes
Their completely Useless the mentality of Pads and diapers and knee caps is a issue for them so they just have to stop trying cause this is way beyond trying is now called useless teams that started rugby way after USA Argentina Portugal have improved very much in rugby. However USA don’t worry you’re not completely useless we can still use you as examples to the future rugby players😂😂😂
USA women are very good and the 7s are okay.
Wales's best rugby star (Louis Rees-Zammit) has left a lucrative rugby career to attempt to play American Football, maybe that offers some explanation
Maybe choose a smaller geographical area to make the 'home' of rugby in the USA to concentrate resources
interesting idea!
rees zammit is a traitor to rugby. he chose money over the sport.
@@SVAgxlxxi He has loved NFL all his life and his dad played it locally in the UK. I think there is more to this than money.
RUgby has failed to grow. IT hasnt broken into any new markets and has struggled even in its strongholds. Rugby lacks thrill, lots of weird rules, lacks breathtaking athleticism also its very conservative i blame the federations the governing body and also Rgby players lack charisma "no larger than life personalities". Sport is abot being unpredictable, in Rgby we know only 4 teams can win the world cup. IN Football, Basketball,etc you never know. Its been close to 200 years and Still rugby is strggling.
I will tell you the fact that I have lived and this not being rude or spiteful. Title 9!
This [Title 9] has made it seem unfair, basically showing male sports what women had to go through for years. But of course if you ask me for my politically correct response I will say that the American Sports Mafia, the NFL, MLB, NBA, T&F and those foundational giants keep other sports below them.
Just watch how those sports are broadcasted versus all of the other sports in America.
Like he said it’s all about money this is also why the USMNT soccer is not so good but the womens are.
u can’t just take a sec and try to say one good thing about the men’s eagles… u wonder why americans won’t watch this sport you push us away every chance u get.
IIIt comes down to getting the American athletic talents to buy in to rugby. The top athletes in America are all taken by other pro sports. The ones who just missed the cut to make those pro sports have moved on and are either becoming coaches in their respective sport or have pursued other careers. This is the talent that rugby needs to go after. I’m sorry but the talent currently playing for the USA men rugby are not on the level of elite athletes. They are part time athletes. The other major part and important one is finances and sponsorship. To attract these elite athletes to rugby you need money. The minimum salary for a bench player on an NFL team is $750k per year. If you want the talent you need to pay them a good amount salary to make it a viable career.
I dont think most rugby players give a s..t about the money more for the love of the game true sportsman more money means more corruption before 1995 rugby was amateur and they still played
@@Trajan2401 I agree if you grew up in a rugby country but we're not talking about passion. I get it, i grew up in the islands and we played both rugby and american football growing up. The question is why the US who is the top sports country with one of the best talents in the world cant field a competitive rugby team on the international level. Just like everything else, you need MONEY to compete at a high level - no matter what sport.
USA Rugby as an organization has been the biggest issue to developing a quality national side. USA Rugby does not involve itself in development, does not make an effort to support youth or collegiate sides, and chooses the national side based on which teams/coaches are in good favor with it and not just the quality of the players. It is obsessed with turning former football players into rugby players instead of starting from the ground up.
4:11 😂
Not every sport can be big in America. Especially rugby and cricket might have to face an uphill battle since they are so similar to American football and baseball, respectively.
Rugby struggles in traditional markets like England. I think that has to be fixed first. Grow the game in the traditional rugby-playing nations and be strategic about where to export it. For example, I think Germany has way more potential to become a rugby-playing nation than the US. What about Scandinavia or Eastern Europe? None of these countries do have an endzone sport that many people play yet.
I know many people hate the following thought but both codes should reunite. Nowadays, people have more options than ever when it comes to picking sports or competions which they want to watch, so I think neither code will make it big on its own. Reunite, keep the best from both worlds and take it from there.
Just my thoughts. 🤷♂️
It’s like they took a big step back
At the end of the day, the problem to both codes of Rugby being established is going to be College Football. Rugby in the US will likely never develop because even if you get a player pool of people from ages 12-18, who are good enough to become professional, the likelihood is that College Football scouts will see them as having unique skill sets and offer them a scholarship. I know there are college scouts already offering deals to people in NZ and the wider Pacific (especially with the growth of Polynesian players in College and the NFL).
The second major problem is that there's no established immigrant base to appeal to. MLS broke through to the masses because of Latin American and Southern/Eastern European immigration. Cricket is growing because there's a South Asian immigrant community willing to support it.
A better strategy for World Rugby is to focus on Africa and Asia. Sometimes quantity of players is a better strategy than quality of money.
Ripper video my friends
thanks mate!
top 3 worst rugby videos this year
@@SVAgxlxxi spose it's your right to believe that...wanker
@@brodericki4281u can stay watching ur roidboks win all the time idgaf i will stay loyal to the us
What’s sup
I believe in our ability to fail. USA Rugby is a disaster, stuck in the old boys mentality. The biggest problem is that their is no path to the national team. Okay your high school team just won a national, title you want to keep going in the sport you love, so you go to the top college program, where you are given basically no financial support, and your team is either so dominant you win guys without trying, or they drain you of talent by overplaying you. But you survive, national champions again. So now what, join a DI club in your local area, (Your DI club is national champs, cute but that not real rugby.) tryout for the MLR, (Great college into competing with international talent who has been playing for years good luck), who knows how to get scouted by a USA Rugby, maybe one of your coaches is an old hand and pulls you out for a trial but short of that their is no way to get nationals notice. So you have played your entire career being the best this country has to offer, and you can not even get a look because some coach has the big kid who used to play in the NFL.
IF USA RUGBY HAD A PIPELINE, we can have a future.
There's always a way for an organization to graduate to a higher level, though it may take a generation. Look at Life Chiropractic College, starting in the 1980s. Somehow they had more than their share of enthusiastic ruggers, but they started in the Graduate and Professional School division because that's what their players affiliated with (even though at the time, the unions had no eligibility rules). They got to be where their A side was just too good for that, so they moved up in competition, just the A side. Soon they were competitive with the independent clubs, then the highest level of competition in the USA. Then they, along with a few other top tier clubs, broke off their A teams to form a Super League, which aspired to one day turn professional, so they relaxed their amateurism rules to allow for such expansion. That Super League never managed to turn pro, and was succeeded by another Super League organized more closely to the lines of the international Southern Hemisphere one, and although they too never managed to turn pro, they show how grass roots development is possible. And note that Life's lower sides kept playing among the professional school teams, so it's not like any of this came at the expense of guys who just plain enjoyed the game and weren't necessarily wizzes at it.
Americans believe that everything is strength. Rugby is a sport with many technical variants, it is not in one generation that success will be achieved, look at Italy; How long has she been a wooden spoon at 6 nations.
Nobody cares about "women's" sports. Not many women left in women's sports. It's just a waste of time talking about them.
to make this claim during the Olympics is a new level of boldness
i think u need to delete this video it’s just false info.
the worst rugby video of all time.
Because Americans can't play football without pads and 35 second rests.
Meow
USA rugby the sleeping giant is probably not that accurate. The world has got a lot better and the USA is just one of many nations that have improved considerably. Stop thinking they are a top tier nation because they are a great sporting nation.
It mean they have the money and the population to make a rugby team that would absolutely dominate and likely win everything, but they just don't do it
@@AbeHopwoodif population was the reason they will dominate then why has New Zealand dominated with a population smaller than most US cities ? Most people thought that because of American football they could definitely dominate, but the games are too different to have that cross over.
@andyanderson5326 omfg, because they're SLEEPING. SLEEPING GIANTS. New Zealand love rugby to the point where the majority of them want to play it. America don't love rugby to the point where less Americans want to play it than kiwis.
The point is that if America started playing rugby, with the population that they have they would have the opportunity to pick out some of the best athletes on earth. And their money means they could invest in elite training plans and playing conditions for their players.
I don’t think you get it ? You don’t need a large population to get the best athletes on earth. How is that a population like New Zealand actually dominates sports other than rugby. America don’t even dominate the sports they love and play. So why do you think they will dominate rugby ? The last time the All Blacks played the USA it was a cricket score. So sleeping giants is more of a pipe dream.
@andyanderson5326 you're trolling aren't you? My points stands with more than just rugby. I wouldn't be surprised if the new zealand football team could beat USA football team. The point is that less Americans want to play sports that the rest of the world love to play. Whether it's cricket, football, rugby etc.
And what you said about them not dominating in the sports they play is just false. Theres a reason why USA have won the last 5 olympic gold medals for basketball. And if kansas city chiefs played an american football team from england I'd bet a LOT of money on the kansas city chiefs to win
I don't understand why you keep arguing that new zealand is better than them with a smaller population because I know that ffs.
Think about it like this: if New Zealand can be among the best I the world with such a small population, just think about how good America could be with on of the largest populations on earth
Why bother when you already have gridiron. Rugby union is a 19th century game, it needs serious modernisation. What is it outside of middle class UK, France and NZ? A glorified cult sport.
🤣
Actually I think RU's had too much modernization. A few of the big changes have been good, but most have made the game less tactically interesting, and the trend is still in the more boring direction. I'd like to see the game played by the laws of the 1960s with a few small adjustments and the 5-point try.
@@goodmaro it's been changed for player health. I read that as you just saying that they should play in the really dangerous way that lead to people having really bad health issues later in life
Sorry but they are absolute chite when it comes to real sports ffs
Cos rugby is a boring sport. and not a better alternative to what they have. League has a much better chance of taking off
Nfl is a much more boring sport there’s a commercial every 2 minutes
League has its attractions, but leaves a lot less interesting things for pack play -- although Union seems to be trending in that direction too.
League is infinitely times more boring. I'd rather watch sevens than league
RUgby has failed to grow. IT hasnt broken into any new markets and has struggled even in its strongholds. Rugby lacks thrill, lots of weird rules, lacks breathtaking athleticism also its very conservative i blame the federations the governing body and also Rgby players lack charisma "no larger than life personalities". Sport is abot being unpredictable, in Rgby we know only 4 teams can win the world cup. IN Football, Basketball,etc you never know. Its been close to 200 years and Still rugby is strggling.