Is Mario Kart Unfair? | GAME PSYCH
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2017
- This is GAME PSYCH, and today will are exploring the so called "unfair AI" of Mario Kart, specifically, the AI drivers of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Sometimes it feels like the CPU isn't playing by the rules, and it can be incredibly frustrating. It's time to put this theory to the test, and figure out why Mario Kart AI can be so unforgiving.
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/ nikmoe
Official Channel Music
/ nikmoe 
Игры
That one CPU who always takes the shortcut on cheeseland
Fuckin Larry
SniperSquid yes! In the third lap. That happens pretty often for me on Sweet Sweet Canyon too.
SniperSquid Go fuck yourself Toad
Crystal Pearl jew
NoOneCares wot
Don't forget that the AI is capable of making turns that are literally impossible by the player without drifting. (In 200cc)
Pyrus of Impetus yes agreed
only in 200cc
Mario kart Wii is an good example. The cpu can use the worst cars and bikes and still being able to drift on those really tight turns that's literally impossible with the “bad karts and bikes”.
Like in the SNES game
Only in 200cc. In 150cc they are fair, 200cc they are better because the player is better. This is because you'd most likely be better if you play 200cc. Git gud.
An average 200cc Grand Prix race:
1. First 2 laps go great
2. Don't drift sharp enough and go off road for half a second
3. 2nd place passes you & effortlessly hits you with a green shell
4. Everyone else passes you & you get bombarded with every item possible
5. You get back to first place right before the finish line
6. 2nd place uses a shortcut with a mushroom & beats you
7. You rage quit and break your controller
If you think that's bad, get the wii u version, buy a SNES controller, and get the SNES to wiimote adapter. It register's as a classic controller, allowing you to do that, but the triggers DO NOT WORK
At least you finished second, could’ve been last
pretty much all turns are possible without drifting. well maybe not all, but many.
That's what you get for playing 200cc. That thing shouldn't even exist, most tracks aren't designed with such speed in mind. This isn't Sonic Racing
@@SLISKI_JOHNNY but 200c is the most fun
Mario Kart Wii's AI was just insulting. Never in my life have I been hit by 4 red shells, squashed, thunderstruck, bashed by a star, bashed by a bullet, and then hit by a stage hazard within the span of 5 seconds. Oh, and did I mention that the lightning caused you to run into your dropped green shell?
I keep getting 10th place in 8 but got 1st to 3rd place in Wii. Sorry but Wii was better.
Don't get me wrong, I love MKWii, but the AI can be hell when trying to get at least a 1-star rating, especially on Mirror.
aerosol.AEROY actually in the span of the wii's life, I had a two star rating because of one cup I couldn't get 3 star on
It's even worse if you're going fast enough when you get struck by lightning that you're shell flies forward from your tail and smacks you again. When it happens in MK7 and 8, you're 6 COINS AWAY from your top speed, too!
aerosol.AEROY Well at least the Ai didnt copy you like they did me
"Footage from Mario Kart Wii" Yep, that one has the worst instance of the AI killing you, then kicking you while you're down, then kicking you again and again.
No, that's an online match in a video called "Mario Kart Wii."
It couldn't have been online, because the person who recorded it was watching a replay of the race, meaning it had to have been an offline grand prix race.
Well, I guess that shows how ludicrous the Wii's AI was.
R O B E R T C O P The video is called "Get Mario Karted"
i have felt that pain way to often in wii
That moment in Mario Kart DS where a red shell curves round your defensive item.
Actually if you go straight then it won't hit you. I feel this stops the defensive item from making you invincible.
Nintendo, If you introduce me a Red Shell and a Green Shell by their color, don't expect me to call the Blue Shell by its original name
lariusx14 my nephew calls it the battle shell
it's a koopa shell for green and a paratroopa shell for red
shitshell
Actually the blue shell is called a seeky seeky shell, fact from science.
Funny I never even knew it was called a spiny shell
8:09, "... Makes Mario Kart 8's unfair AI kinda worth it."
8:56, "The AI in Mario Kart 8 is not unfair."
Huh.
Ness1228 "huh" indeed
Mario Kart Wii was the hardest, I consistently place top 3 online against even Japanese players with tight drifts and knowing how to abuse wheelies in that game but the AI in MKW is pure evil where you need to get a perfect score for a star ranking.
YoshiGator You mean a 3 star ranking, you get a Star Rank for getting all 1st in the cup while the higher star ranks you have to be flawless.
There has been times where I finished with 40 points in MKW to get a star ranking, I stopped after I got a minimum of two per cup. I think MK7 gives you 3 automatically for being perfect since I never had trouble there plus the AI is a lot more forgiving.
YoshiGator Yeah i have gotten those rankings before, the ranking system can be strict sometimes especially in Super Circuit
I've mostly played with hackers because of their name I'm now one of them
3 stars is : don't get hit by a single item, and be first 90% of the time,
That's what I got from my painful experience... hey, at least the bosts were kind and I have 2 star ranking
The AI in Super Mario Kart is proof that Skynet is coming
So unfair! And they can jump over obstacles like "Fuck this shit, I will skip this".
The Mario Brothers are the worst offenders of this claim. The pair can deploy stars at will. Yep. Sometimes in rapid succession of eachother. They also do this when they're in first and shouldn't have access to them normally.
Nintendo, what were you thinking? This is just unacceptable.
You haven't seen the AI in Mario Kart DS
Drifting makes me want to break bricks with my fist.
Ronald Maya
Lol, we don't have to worry about SkyNet then xD
Has anyone ever noticed how, up until the human driver is in first, the AI NEVER seem to get a blue shell?
In DS, Double Dash, and Wii U's 8 I typically see a few blue shells if I decide to mess around in the lower positions
That happens in 7 alot
Might be bias. The CPU has actually a lower chance to get a blue shell than human players, and also, CPUs like to use their items, so there is a higher chance that a blue shell gets destroyed by a bomb or a super horn, compared to online where people will obviously let the blue devil travel all the way
Oh, they're unfair. Not with just items, but they defy the game's physics as well. I'm sure we all seen them take sharp turns quickly without even drifting while maintaining their speed.
It's okay, we can too now because of smart steering
you can actually do the same thing if you quickly spam the accelerate button around a corner keeping most of you rmomentum and making the turn
They also speed up when further behind - far more than you do.
Yes!!
They also don’t spin when hit by lightning
8:36
Nik: "you aren't going to get first place every race on every difficulty"
Me: "Hold my beer"
Please Advise: 3 starring 200cc, got tilted, Joycon now stuck in wall.
the Ai in mk8 was a lot harder than in deluxe, i remember I couldnt even get a gold trophy in the flower cup but I 3 starred every single gp in deluxe 200cc which is faster than the wii u version
5000000000cc. Mods.
Rixton it's almost as if this video is right. 😮
Rixton also I'm impressed
The CPU does cheat. They have infinite Handling in MK8. If you modify the Speed to insane levels, they still follow their set path at the given speed without flying off the track.
I have seen CPU fly off the track on 150cc, not sure about 200cc though.
Karl Rayne Its rare to see a cpu fall off the track
+Karl Rayne yep u can tell because after the race YOU can't even go off the track.
The fly the entire time of the track in 200cc.
200cc is too fast for the AI when the have a heavy weight character
Karl Rayne that's interesting
If the cpu AI is fair, explain the ridiculous snipes the cpu's can get. the cpu's have more of an aimbot, humans have more of a luck when sniping with greens and bannanas.
I do agree with you, the CPU's have impressive aim, I was behind one with a Bob-Omb on MK7 on Piranha Plant Slide, the few turns before the finish line, the one with the Bob-Omb threw it at the COM that was ahead of it on another turn and hit it directly. But that completely diminishes in 50cc, they can't aim for shit there.
humans have pot shots and hope, and lady luck flips them off.
I play races where I get sniped in fucking off road
Steena I agree
Other way around
No lie. 7 Blue shells on one race and at least three for every race until the ending of the cup. Thats 16 Blue shells! That's not "random". Thats bullshit.
The further ahead you are, the greater the chance you have of getting Blueshelled.
I can feel a "You Know What's Bullshit?" episode come out on this topic
@FNF SUCKS. No. I legit got hit by 7 blueshells in one race. Me and my brother would count how many would "magically" pop up in a race. He got, at most, hit by 5, and I got hit by, at most, 7.
Which is SUPPOSE to be improbable, but it happened, hence why it is being typed in a forum about Mario Kart AI cheating.
The game cheats.
@FNF SUCKS. Or you can just get good and experience it yourself.
Go to options, place it on hard, items high, and become proficient enough in boosting that you lap the AI.
Then the bullshit will come. It will find you.
@FNF SUCKS. Dude, I just told you the circumstances. If you want to see it so bad, then do it.
The games have a wicked rubber band AI and the worst ones was Super NES and "Double Dash". If you want to see the game break itself to win:
Go to options, place it on Hard, items high, become proficient at boosting to lap the AI, then cry.
The DS and Double Dash Ai was pretty tough, they are constantly accelerating and reaching topspeed of starpower in 150cc/Mirror.
Double Dash (supposedly) has the tamest rubberbanding AI. They only start to speed up once you play 150cc.
IIRC, Double Dash also has a technique where players can use MiniTurbo to dodge blue shells, (with frame perfect timing....) which makes it even more appealing to hardcore fans of the series.
I thought the DS ai was great!
catlover67803 Same here!
@catlover
The DS AI would accelerate for no reason in some cases. Some AI with obviously slower vehicles would still reach a higher speed than me on straights. It still doesn't make sense to me.
AI in Mario Kart 8 have a set item pattern set only to screw you over. When playing offline, you will most likely see these combos happen to you while in first:
Shock + Blue
Red + Blue
Shock + Red
Coin (1st place) + Red (2nd place)
Super Horn (held as defense) + Shock (+ red/blue sometimes)
Super Horn (held as defense) + Boo stealing it
you forgot Super Horn + boo stealing it + blue shell
Trent Mkw
Do people not know you can fall of the edge of the map to avoid a blue shell it saves around 2 seconds
KarateCreeper thats not viable if the ai is too close to you, they will just end up passing you by if you do that sometimes.
1 more red shell coming up get out defense just as soon as it’s about to hit you… BOO ATACK ( hit by red shell)
Shock + Blue isnt even bad its better for you because the shock cancels the blues impact.
I think another thing that makes the AI frustrating, especially during Hard Mode, is the fact that all of the other 11 drivers are all focused on taking you out, whereas when you play other humans, generally each driver is more focused on taking out the one or two people directly in front of them. I have literally had the experience time and again where an AI player will make a move to take me out that also is detrimental to them too, or at least isn't the most advantageous for them. Sometimes that can make you feel like it is unfair when you are dealing with 11 other players whose sole mission is to take you out (as opposed to human players, whose primary mission is usually to finish the race in as high a place as possible). The first one feels more personal. It just does.
Your argument fails to take into account that, when you play single player, the player is literally facing 11 A.I. opponents focused on taking him/her out. Your defensive items are stripped away and the player ends up getting combo'd continuously.
When you play against other players, the target is constantly changing and not every racer is focusing on taking you out.
This is why the AI is poorly written and perceived as "unfair."
It makes racing in the higher cc challenges frustrating.
git gud
Minister no amount of skill will prevent you from getting blue shelled five times in a row in about fifteen seconds of a time span in a mario kart game...
Incorrect. In single player the AI aren’t all focused on taking you out, it is still a free for all
@@mrbaboonfish They are focused. Ofc they are. There is no free for all. The game is made for the player
This is exactly right. The computer doesn’t see itself as an enemy, it identifies only the human player as needed to be taken out. It does this to an extent in battle mode too, and you can tell by going into the replay and selecting any character. You can watch the entire battle focusing on any computer player. Watch how often they don’t go after each other. It’s the same way in the Grand Prix races, only you can’t choose to watch them.
MK8 honestly has the tamest ai in the series
wii was ez 4 me
ah yes, "you're not in first place, well fuck you anyways blue shells can also target you no matter what place you're in"
Idont Know oh?
MK7 felt extremely easy even in Mirror mode but I havent played MK8
YoshiGator 7 was super easy!
Dude, I got hit by lightning three times in roughly ten seconds. The sheer RNG required to set up something like that is absolutely insane (three lightning items held by 2-3 different AI at any one time), and the RNG for them to all be used when they were is even more insane (starting with the AI closest to the front, they use their lightning, next lightning is used immediately upon invulnerability wearing off, then the third one strikes a few seconds later).
I don't care if it's not intentional, shit like this DOES happen, and all it takes is one occurrence of it or something like it to fuck up your attempt at 3-starring a grand prix. For completionists like myself, nothing is more annoying than getting hit by a tidal wave of shells right before the finish line of the final race. There's also getting hit by something unavoidable while going over an equally unavoidable gap, Lakitu picking you up, moving you back to BEFORE the jump, then DROPPING YOU ONTO AN ITEM!
I mean, I don't have to worry about that shit now because I already 3-starred everything, but the game almost had me pulling my hair out on 200cc.
What you said at the start of this comment is literally impossible within the confines of Mario kart 8 deluxe's item system. After a shock is used, 30 seconds must pass before another one can be obtained. Clearly you have no recollection of what actually happened so yoU exaggerated, or you made this whole thing up in search of attention and sympathy from people in the comments
Also, saying that 2 or 3 shocks were being held at the same time has nothing to do with what you said, because as soon as one of them used a shock, the other 2 would lose their items. Honestly if you are making up a fake story for a rant at least make it believeable and learn what you are talking about
Or, maybe he wasn't playing MK8D. Maybe the rules in other games are different.
200cc isn't in other games
torpeter21 Watch a Mankalor video. I think this person just saw that video and now he's saying that "he was in that race" (well I think...)
Something i've noticed in mariokart is in each grand prix, the computer seems to pick out a few ai characters to be "better drivers". i keep seeing the same ai passing me in each race, and it seems to change every time. i don't really know how accurate that is though
i have seen bowser be in first place and the next match bowser is still in first place
YES they are, example, 123 TOO MUCH POINTS OF DIFERENCE and 456789 10 11 12 not to much
OH MY GOSH I KNEW IT
I KNOW YOUR SECRETS BABY PEACH
@@ruler_of_everything nah for me it's Daisy and Mario...
I play as Luigi
I've discovered something I'm now quite sure of which only adds an extra layer to our frustration with the AI in MK8. And I haven't seen anyone else talk about it. Apologies if they have: When we get items, we have to wait for the whole stupid wildcard animation before we can use them. I have seen time and time again, AI enemies pick up items and use them on me IMMEDIATELY. That is a crazy advantage.
Mario Kart Wii is rigged, trust me.
*(Thanks for all the likes! I put this comment before I got a Nintendo Switch, and Mario Kart 8 DELUXE is pretty hard too)*
Julian Tellez That I can trust
IKR
So true
I know.
mr.tellez the best thing ever Is when you win right as you get hit with a blue shell
The AI is really unfair in MK8 deluxe. It was the last lap in the N64 rainbow road and i was way ahead of everyone else. I was luckily equipped with a super horn. Then i saw on the map a blue shell. so i waited to use my super horn. Once the blue shell came and i was just about to use the horn a boo came and took it. I got hit. Then a red shell came and hit me. I got 3rd place that race. You can't tell me that is not unfair.
I have footage of MK8D where I was about to get 3rd place online. Toad's Turnpike, last lap, the finish line was a few yards in front of me just a littler after the last curve. I get hit with a Green Shell. 5th. No biggie, yet. Someone rams into me with a star, which makes me hit a truck. 8th. Totally unfair, but not the worst. Someone has a Piranha Plant and chomps me. 10th.
W h y
This exact thing happened to me earlier! xD Except in online and I ended up last. Yay rng.
The Great Bootleg Can you upload it?
Christopher Seegobin Woah that never happened to me but that sounds very unfair
Pink Splash Artist it was so unfair
Anyone else remember in mario kart 64, when a cpu got in front of you until they were out of sight, and their icon on the mini map nearly doubles it's speed
Gregory Rodriguez When they are so far away they dont detect any collision, for example toads turnpike
That's true. But that's mk64. 64 isn't 8
Ohoho MK8Deluxe is unfair, but not on computer end. On other player end at least for me. Every race goes like this:
-I have pretty good skill and when items are scarce i tend to be in the lead
-red shell
-item box
-coin
-blue shell
-red shell
-red shell
-Finally gets double item box
-2x coins
-red shell
-red shell
-end in 9th
-leave game
I swear, there are only 4 items in this game, coin, red shell, blue shell, and star. I get hit by all of them at any time i can. I am a turtle magnet.
i am a coin and bananna magnet
No no, the AI I've experienced turns on a dime, instantly, and can drive through grass at normal speed on the road, plus sometimes my dad couldn't pass them with a star. That's pretty unfair.
TOTINOS Someone made a mkwii custom track that's all off road, it's impossible to win
jakinator agreed
1. some characters have better off road stats than others
2. the way that AI turns (at least the way you described it) only really applies to 200cc
Like someone said, it depends on the characters, and what cc.
@@someguy86 two years to late
I don't have any comment on AI item use, but I think they don't drive the same way human players do - I'm pretty sure, from watching them, that their route and speed are independent of their character and kart. They're sorted into difficulty categories at the start of the race, and on most tracks on 150cc and higher the most difficult ones will keep up with you regardless of what would be differences in your top speed if a human were piloting their kart. Similarly, I think they have the Smart Steering effect on even though they don't display the antenna on their karts. They can be knocked off the track by bumping them with a heavier character or hitting them with items, but when they pick up an accidental boost (say, from touching you in anti-grav or grazing you while you're surrounded by mushrooms) that would send a human player unavoidably off the edge (because you can't cancel boosts by braking), I've seen them magically stick at the edge of the track.
That was always a thing, they have infinite handling and can cut easily every turn at top speed without any drift, they rather fall of the track while drifting in 200cc than with normal handling, you need to play some 200cc races on hard mode and watch a replay of the Ai, there are always 2 Ai's being your rivals (2nd place and 3rd place mostly), make sure to watch them on tracks like Neo Bowser City or Yoshi's Circuit. Oh and Ai's using a Bike are even worse :)
someone with an iq higher than 2 in the comments section? A M A Z I N G
@@DeltaZ You do know that drifting gives you mini turbos which make you go fast and if the ai cant have miniturbos then you're technically going faster
Eh... MK8 for the wii u made the CPUs have the MOST PRECISE AIM EVER with green shells.
Continue Screen green shells (shells in general) are also much larger in size in MK8/MK8-Deluxe.
You’d get sniped so many times!!!!!
God damn those green shells
Continue Screen they're not too hard to aim tho
no, there is a thing where green shells automatically position to the player you are trying to snipe, its not CPU exclusive GIT GUD
you can say what you want, but If its freaking possible for a compter player tp get three red shells in 2nd place and all you get is a coin!? then its freaking rigged
Agent 5 This happens to me all the time.
That's because you're extremely far ahead from the computers. IT'S DETERMINED BY PLACE AND DISTANCE FROM FIRST if your in mk8d. in mk8wiiu it's just distance.
@@hontnog nah mate they've been literally right behind me and it's happened before
Megu-dah Computers have a chance of getting triple reds in 2nd, but they can’t get Crazy 8’s. it’s super rare though.
Megu-dah Computers have a chance of getting triple reds in 2nd, but they can’t get Crazy 8’s.
in mk8 deluxe the cpu can instantly accelerate to top speed, rig items, and time everything to the exact frame. It's 100 percent rigged.
You can prevent and beat all of that, like he said in the video. It won't be 100% perfect but you can get past it.
+Gavadar That's not the point. The point is that the computers are playing by different rules than the human player.
The computers do not adhere to the physics of the game in the same way the player does, so they are inherently cheating.
Sure, they are still beatable, but that doesn't mean they are fair.
+Eragon7 I see what you're saying.
Gavadar Yes you can, but in 200cc the cpu is almost perfect and makes turns at speeds that'd send a human driver careening off the edge. And we are expected to not only match this but surpass it.
Cheren You do have a point there. It is surpassable, but I guess it is rigged in some situations.
the ai also gets items much quicker than you do as seen around 1:00
When you touch an item box, you can mash the item button to get the item faster, which the human player did not do. The AI probably imput many item button presses but they do not do anything that is unable to be preformed by a human player
torpeter21 woah wtf really? holy shit
Yeah. Try it out, and see for yourself how much it helps.
torpeter21 I thought I was the only one who knew that lol
torpeter21 i did that since mkds (first mk i played)
And im happy its still in deluxe
No. The Ai is rigged. Not with items. With stats. They can keep full speed, and at the same time turn have a better turning radius than the best handling in the game. They also have max speed at all times, regardless of cart combo, and choose to use it usually when the player is second, preventing them to catch up.
Nicolas Allen Which Mario Kart are you talking about?
ALL OF THEM
-200cc
The AI can drive at top speed without having to drift (Neo Bowser City, Grumble, Music Park) and take sharp corners without having even losing speed even if they have the lowest handling stats. I saw an AI Rosalina going full speed at Grumble Volcano with a star and she took a sharp 90 turn and just continued like nothing happened.
The AI can also instantly brake to avoid obatacles on the tracks. Moo Moo Meadows is a good example: The AI goes at top speed at all of a sudden they hit the brakes and continue to drive safely.
Hell, the one thing that truly annoys me is that when a CPU is behind you, it's impossible to get it off your tail because it will always get a sliptream boost. No matter where you turn the AI will always stick behind you unless you hit the brakes.
Nyxael's Hub
About that slipstream thing....
It's so satisfying to watch them try it when I have a banana in tow, only to deploy it last second and see them spin out. Then I laugh at them as their position drops.
Nyxael's Hub Lol play Rainbow Road from N64 on 200c and watch as the AI literally zips from one side of the track to the other in under a second to get the boosts. The best AI will hit every boots every single time on that track.
Actually the AI does cheat to some extent. Many of the turns in 200cc require drifting right? The problem is that when I'm playing singleplayer and I drift on a sharp turn, I see the AI making the same turn without drifting, making them faster than the player. Is the AI cheating here or is it something i'm overlooking?
Nope. They're cheating.
also the boost in the start of the race is faster than the player
@@jaob8855 Trust me, it's not.
@@j-rex229 i have the wii u version not switch
@@j-rex229 ive been playing mario kart wii u and when i boost,the AIs still go past
Worth mentioning! I'm fairly good at the game, and in MK8DX, I've noticed items tend to hit me in the same areas of the map when I'm against purely AI opponents. I think the AI is programmed to use the items at certain points on the map, or after holding the item for X amount of time.
I've got no objections to getting coins in 1st place online.
Getting coins in 5th-6th place, while everyone around you is on stars and bullet bills? That's a broken game and I refuse to support it. It needs reform.
You have to play smart in Mario Kart
apagan0075 That doesn't help when most things are luck-based.
Smart? Coins are _utterly useless_ against other players with invulnerability and weapons. In fact, they should be scrapped in favor of more speed boost orientated items.
And when I inevitably get knocked back to 8th-10th place and the game gives me single mushrooms is when I turn the game off in disgust (this has happened many times). This is not balanced at all.
abloogywoogywoo Yo mean being vulnerable in 1st. I know coins are problem but what do you mean by putting more boost power ups for 1st place racer or below 1st? Cause a mushroom is rare for 1st place.
apagan0075 It's not as rare as you think. I get it at least once every other race.
Whenever i play against ai, I noticed that they actually calculate when to throw items based off the route your on, they think you move in a straight line, and can rebound green shells and banana snipe you if you dont move unpredictably
"The human is always greater than the A.I."
I can hear a thousand people screaming "BUT DEEP BLUE BEAT GARRY KASPAROV"
Surprisingly enough, that is kinda why I love Mario Kart more than other game series I have played.
masochist, are you?
G80 GZT Yoda are you?
Wait, did you play the bananas only mode against the AI? If so, it's no wonder you'd get bored quickly. Do it against human players!
I did play Banana's only vs CPUs for the sake of testing how the AI handled not having power items. It turns out they're much less of a threat. I've done shells only against other humans, but what I want is a mode with Green Shells and Bananas only and I don't think Deluxe has this as an option. Perhaps it was there in Double Dash? Also thanks for watching!
NIKMOE, try skilled items only.
You completely missed the mark on this. I don't think people are talking about random items, it's one of the main mechanics, you expect it.
i'll save you 9 minutes of being patronized about how you just don't get how the game works and that's why it seems unfair:
play mk8 single player on 150cc, then go online and play 150cc online with human players and tell me the if you're getting bombarded with the same items in the same are during the final lap
The point he was making is that AI's behavior is programmed by humans, the AI is predictable, humans can make a string of similar choices, but can do other things in a race which is more intense than the AIs bullshit tactic of throwing red shells and getting blue shelled in a race two times.
If you have to metagame to beat the predictable AI, the AI is not good. It's unfair.
illuminatioracle that's an unfair test, you could be lucky in one of them
illuminatioracle I think you might have new medicine that your mother does not know about
Mario Kart 64 is the only game with actual unfair Ai.
Hahaha yeah if they get out of your sight then RIP :D
And Super Mario Kart
And the best multiplayer.
and MK Ds
spieler 2999 I don't know what you're talking about but MKDS has some of the easiest Ai even on hard.
In a majority of racing games (probably including mario kart), rubber-banding is not simply varying the item probabilities by place. The AI's driving ability/speed increases as you drive faster, and decreases as you drive slower. This is so that it makes single-player games more exciting, where all the players are bunched together.
You can test this yourself in your favourite racing game - drive the race slowly and see what time the fastest AI gets. Then drive it as fast as you can and check the time. The AI players will drive much faster in the second case. This is to make it more exciting so you "always have a chance" coming into the last lap - something that, as most people will notice, does not happen in human-only games (although the item probabilities make it closer in mario kart).
This has the unfortunate impact of making the first 2 laps of any race not really matter that much in any game, since if you are slow over those 2 laps, the AI will generally slow down to let you catch up. If you are fast, in egregious cases, the AI will actually receive a boost to their top speed outside the ordinary rules of the game.
This concept of varying the AI ability based on the player's ability is not exclusive to racing games, either: it's called "dynamic game difficulty balancing" and is present in almost every genre.
I remember this in the Road Rash games for the Sega Genesis. I could crash 3 times early in the race and still win, but if I crash once right before the finish line, 5 or 6 bikes would pass me dropping me from 1st to 6 or 7th. No matter how well you rode, the other racers were not far behind. I don't remember there being a map, so it made it even easier for the game to get away with this. It's a lazy way of programming to make sure the game always stay challenging, but it's not hard for the player to catch on.
Po-ké Watch I like Mario Kart. :/
So...Mario Kart is esentially "Stockholme: The videogame"
Did you just combine my two passions, Gaming and Psychology in one of my favorite game series?!?! I loved it! I've always said to my friends and cousins what makes Mario Kart Fun is the fear of getting hit and losing because you're always on alert at the wheel it's just human nature things have to be hard to be fun or worth it because if everything was easy everything would have no meaning. It's kinda funny how we are annoyed by something hard and we can't seem to do it but when we do it we feel a certain feeling in particular. Satisfaction. You are satisfied that after all the hard work, all the learning you finally did it! On the other hand if we do something easy it's "Yeah I did it" it's not the same effort or satisfying as if it was hard and needed to take time to do it. If everything was easy life would be meaningless. You've got yourself a new Subscriber man keep up the awesome work!
Actually, people have gone through MK8 and MK8 Deluxe's code to reveal that, in Grand Prix, CPUs have a much higher chance to get greater items. In fact, MK8 Deluxe, you must be in 11th or 12th to get a Bullet Bill, while CPUs can get it in 5th. So... this video is 100% wrong....
BTW, I'm not trying to hate on this video. It is very well made and I gave it a thumbs up. I just wanted to address the issue with this video.
I really want to know what their thinking was when they put that in the game.
only a scrub fake
I thought rubber band AI was removed? Is it just that the probability was of getting greater items is better for CPUs in higher places or does it go off how far ahead and what place the player is in like previous mario karts?
CPUs can get bullet bills in 5th place because the item system is based off of how far away a person is from the leader, so the position you are in compared to the rest of the other racers is irrelevant. On offline, against CPUs that don't drive well, it is common to be out ahead, so computers will get better items in higher positions because they are far behind you in 1st
You spent the entire video talking about items, ignoring the fact that the AI actually does cheat (rubberband, take sharper turns than human players and gain weight as to not get pushed), which I thought this video was about, y'know?
Well here is your awnser
They dont cheat
That don't rubber band, look it up. They just don't. Research.
@@someguy86 nah. In wii i fucking see the ai speeding up to catch me faster than I can even boost. I refuse to believe they don't rubberband
@@siradmin6791 In wii they probably do but its about mk8 and mk8d and not wii
@@someguy86 They absolutely do cheat in 8 and it’s really obvious in multiplayer mode. If a player is first place the computer opponents will make it difficult for the other player to keep up.
Dude you deserve sooo many more subscribers man, one of the greatest videos ever made I've seen in a while.
My problem is with the items, especially when you're in first place. I always get coins no matter what. Even after getting rid of it the coins return. Always having no items to defend myself is just bs
Yep for me is mostly coins and a bannana on first place, 3 bannanas and a green shell on second, wierdly just red mushrooms on anything behind second and if for some reason I saved a good Item a Boo will steal it every time.
Are you actually going to answer the actual question? Or just talk about psychology that has to do with the "perception" of unfair?
You are a moron
Um...He did...Its perception, smart one.
+Dodoki, I know this is old, but I made a response concerning the video and thought maybe your two critics could have a read. Here it is copy pasted:
"TL;DR Video didn't answer if game was unfair, it only answered if the AI blatantly cheats. It deals with human psychology more than it does the mechanics of how the AI works
Okay most everyone in the comments who disagrees with this video are disagreeing for the wrong reasons. Thus making it appear as if there are no arguments against the video because the majority of people reading the comments simply see the bad arguments and end up having a bad case of confirmation bias.
+Dodoki brought up a good question with him saying, "Are you actually going to answer the actual question? Or just talk about psychology that has to do with the "perception" of unfair?" Which prompted a couple people to call him names and parrot the arguments of the video that don't actually answer his question.
This video did not answer the question of whether or not the game is unfair. It did answer the question of whether or not the AI cheats. There is a difference.
For instance, I've no doubt in my mind the game doesn't give better items to, nor accelerate the AI in any way different to the player. That would be *cheating*. What I am unsure of is whether or not the AI collectively races against the player and has a bias about using their items on the player specifically. If true then that is *unfair*.
The video did not answer the main gripe we have with the AIs racing he sets out with as an example at 0:24 in that they sometimes basically gangbang the player. Now I'm not saying the AI is specifically designed to do this, it could just be random chance. However, I've had it happen enough that I believe it is intentional game design for them to sometimes unfairly pile drive you together. Prove me wrong, I'd love to know the true answer."
well there is a rubber band mechanic built into the game. If you are too far ahead it actually increases their speed and acc. until they are within a certain distance of the player. they even talked about it at either agdq or sgdq can't remember which one though. he didn't talk about it tho :( it actually is programed to screw with the player. just look at mc 64 ohh boy it is soooooo much worse there but meh.
Squirtgar nope, rubber hand isn't in this one.
"The chaos is what makes Mario Kart fun".
You couldn't be any more wrong right there.
No amount of "git gud" can ever explain Toad just comfortably passing a player in an inner lane turn, using a star, with full coins, and even getting a boost. That man's kart is juiced.
little tip, in mairo kart 8 deluxe. I found out it's impossible for you to have 2 coins in your item spots. So if you pick up a coin, hold onto it. the next item is garenteed to be something else
ok I will have a banana (get blue shelled).fine I will use a horn (gets booed).ok last time I will have green shells and a horn on me (gets lightning bolted).
any game with RNG will have that type of moment
I don't even have to watch to say yes, it is rigged, especially in 200 cc. How tf is dry bowser in the tri wheeler thing that has crappy af handling supposed to whip around a 180 without drifting and not hit a wall. Or get triple mushrooms in first. All of which and more I have seen. Oh yeah, I somehow almost forgot. Babywheights out-speeding bowser on a straight away. Bull crap I say
They also tend to use what characters prefer more. Heavier characters have high speed and weight, but lack handling, and putting them with a bike compliments the both of them. Lighter characters don't go as fast and don't weigh as much. A kart weighs more than a bike, so putting them with a kart would suit them better. Normal characters are fine with either. For example, in MKWii, everyone used Funky Kong with the Bowser Bike. That's because he goes so well with that. But other than that yes, the AI is rigged getting better items in higher positions.
The AI is able to pull of turns that a human player can't. As well as hit you with green shells while facing a different direction. And the AI doesn't need full coins to go max speed. But like the video said, these are done because the AI can't keep up with a human who can adapt and learn. Once you learn the AI's patterns, you can exploit them. The AI also makes up for their "cheating" by magically slowing down on the final lap of most races. And in certain races like Yoshi Valley, they always go the long way or bump into the fence on the shortcut.
@ Po-ke Watch
"I've done this myself on Mario Kart Wii, that is when I quit the series" Mario Kart Wii was unfair because the RNG was so abusable. Among a dozen other problems like bumping killing your momentum, bad track design, endless boosting and etc. I also wanted to quit the series with Mario Kart Wii because it was so awful. But then I tried Mario Kart 8 and literally every problem Mario Kart Wii had was fixed. It's amazing how big of a change Mario Kart 8 is.
And this video is addressing the idea that the AI is cheating in Mario Kart 8. Which it really isn't. In Mario Kart Wii, it was well over half the races, the AI would get endless red and blue turtle shells on lap 3 and throw them all perfectly right before the finish line. In Mario Kart 8, this hardly ever happens. The blue turtles show up more randomly and Reds spawn less. The red turtle shells actually seem to spawn the most in lap 1 and blues in lap 2 from my experience. The AI doesn't just save them all for the very end of lap 3 and pummel you with them. I also get a much higher frequency of Lightning Bolts. Which if you're in first place, lightning bolts actually help you. As everyone behind you loses an item and you all remain at the same speed. If anything, being in first place is too strong in Mario Kart 8.
its only in 200cc
I drive that shitty tri wheeler and have been able to complete about hal fof the 200 cc maps with 3 star. but i also pair it with wheels and kite that balance the stats.
FIRST!!! *Get hit by a blue shell* Aww... 399th
I FEEL that description at the beginning.
I have actually tried everything to test the AI. The only way to have an AI slip up is to build a wall of banana peels in a tight space- Wait, actually, they'd probably speed up to star speed then go off of the screen, then you finally get to the "wall" only to see no banana peels missing . True story, by the way.
And this is why you smuggle items.
Coolduude 2 even if you smuggle an item into first, its guaranteed in MK8:D that a Ghost item will take that item away at the last second. They are programmed to do that.
Coolduude 2 yes fuck yes
Mario Kart is my childhood game, but I don't like it when you're racing against Michael Schumachers and Giacomo Agostinis
NIKMOE: The key to staying ahead is split second decisions and using defences from mystery boxes.
Me: forward go *BRRRRR*
I never felt like the AI cheats because they use items. It's when they somehow know you are at a jump or just got an item, then use lightning.
For me its like the CPU's know who my friend is by keep hunting him down while he was second place and I was first or in another way. There was also a CPU that suddenly helped me saving me from that blueshell by riding fast in versus mode.
You deserve more subs. These videos are really good
In Mario Kart DS, I was playing the VS mode, GCN Baby Park, 150cc, normal difficulty. Out of the blue, on the last three laps, a total of FOUR blue shells hit me, plus an extra two red shells and a green shell, not to mention a banana and a fake item block. Somehow, I still won first place.
Who thinks they should bring the mega mushroom back?
I do
Mega Mushroom would be a better item than the Blooper for sure.
More fun to use and you still have to steer and pay attention.
The blooper also makes you slip around when drifting but its not enough to send you off the track
@@thesilentlime it kinda sucks that the blooper BARELY affects the AI and what really sucks is when you use the blooper and it affects your friend in multiplayer when we ARE WORKING TOGETHER to make at least one of us being first place
@@Meeach It kinda is but ok, in 200cc, you gotta brake drift harder with a blooper
Mario kart EIGHT is when you people realized those sneaky bastards were cheating?!?!? They've been cheating for YEARS!!!!
The thumbnail is just cute. Mario and Bowser is hugging each other with cars!
A good way to get defensive items in first place: whenever you have a coin, hang on to it
I'm almost positive you can't hold two of the same item at once, so you're assured an item for defense
You can I have had two red shells
you cant have 2 coins (in frantic and normal items) but you can have 2 of most other items
Let me save you 9:36 minutes:
Yes. It's unfair.
if it were fair, you would not get hit with 4 red shells in first place by the comp, they would take out 2nd place if they played normally then take that spot, the computer waits untill its ahead of everyone else to launch their attacks, thats what makes it unfair. 2nd place is not likely to get 3 red shells but if they do thats fine, in the wii version, they get you with 4, so to get those odds, 3rd place gets 3 red shells and 2nd gets 1, launches 2nd places shell, THEN SWITCHES with 3rd place so 3rd place launches their shells. it is rigged
rune w jade What's also possible is that 2nd Place gets three Red Shells, and 3rd Place gets three to one Red Shell. The 2nd Place CPU wastes all their Red Shells on you, and 3rd Place passes second, via Red Shell or otherwise, and then uses their last Red Shell on you. It's not rigged, it's just bad luck.
this is going to happen with every game that has randomness in it
rune w jade no way
Computer drives don't attack each other they only attack you . trust me I did a test where I did not move for the whole race looking at the mini map none of the Cpu drivers ever attacked each other
v
I find that its more so the combination of different items at the same time. I play with hard CPU's all the time (Granted, they're called hard for a reason) but 80% of the blue shells I'm hit with, its usually paired with either a red shell timed perfectly before, a ghost to steal my horn, or a shock to get rid of my horn as well. If I manage to drop out and save myself from the blue, the game almost immediately will follow up with a shock to make up for it. Lets just say I've gotten good at calling out what items are coming at me, and when...
The computer DEFINETLY is unfair, whenever I get hit I get hit by 5 more things after it and fall into 8th place. Every time.
Mario kart AI cheats. Try holding onto a super horn for an entire lap... The AI will get a lightning or steal it with a boo before you complete one lap. The AI will also combo stack attacks in an unfair way. say you are holding out a banana with a super horn int he pocket waiting for the blue shell that was just launched to come in range. The AI will often hit you with a boo or the lightning just before it comes in range leaving you open to the spiny shell. After getting hit with the blue shell you get hit with a red shell by the AI in second, then a green shell thrown backwards by the AI in third, then a banana shield collision just after you gain control , then a Parana plant, then another red shell thrown backwards then a bombomb then lastly the dude with the bullet bill. This happens within 10 seconds. that is 10 seconds of unfair gang up. The AI uses the boo and lightning to strip you of your defenses so they can lodge an unfair assault. Why don't all racers race like they want first? I don't understand why they are is always a pecking order where the AI in last will almost always end up in last.
Entirely true. One time, I was at a friend's house playing with him, and just as I used my Super Horn to rid of a Blue Shell, the Boo came out and stole right after I pressed it, somehow canceling my effect of the Super Horn, then hitting me with the Blue Shell.
This one time I had a banana. When the red shell was coming, the LAST second a boo takes my banana... I was like OH WHAT??
Dan Martinez Yeah like whenever I have the Super Horn somehow it gets taken right when the blue shell is about to hit
I think CPU characters should just be banned from using the Spiny Shell in Mario Kart 9. At least with other unavoidable items like the Lightning Bolt, Blooper or Pow Block it hits the other racers and not just you. Spiny Shell hits the racer in first place and if you are the type of player that likes to stick to first and is in that position the most because of high skill then it hits only you, people pass you by, and you rage. Only player controlled characters I think should use the Spiny Shell as such. Mario Kart 64 believe it or not had the right idea. CPU characters cannot use Spiny Shells in that game. Only player controlled racers can. This as such makes the game appeal more to skill. The Spiny Shell throws in a luck factor and when playing a racing game being at the mercy of luck is the last thing you'd want.
ZeldaKing64
For me, it would actually be enough to disable CPU Blue Shells for the final lap of every race. The AI in Mario Kart is actually extremely weak, if it can't use cheap item combos on you. So even if they hit you with a Blue Shell during Lap 2, you could easily get back to first place before the race ends.
i think that ai is unfair because they got better luck when getting items, they got consistent luck while players got random luck; plus as a player, i have seen that some ai's have different statistics when they combine character, car, wheels and glider than the statistics a player got with the same combination, for example i pick rosalina and she is a speedy character and sometimes toad passes me, this can't be fair because in normal circumstances (no items, straight road, no off-road mistakes) rosalina is faster than toad but he passes me anyways, that's impossible, no, I'm not lying
Fercho210991 u are right
Thats fake, I did a experimento and a peach, being 7th got an banana. _. xd
I thought the AI was fine (bear in mind I don't own MK64 or 8).
Then I played Mario Kart Wii this morning. Mirror Shell Cup. There were 8, yes, *eight* Blue Shells in that cup, including 4 in one race. 5 of those 8 were for me and I finished 4th by one point, 33 to 34. I, being my emotional self, crumpled to the floor out of pure frustration and stayed there for a full minute, the infectious recorder of failure and the image of Donkey Kong on a motorcycle looking over an award ceremony from a clifftop filling my mind.
I'll tell you about unfair! I was playing Mario Kart Double Dash and I saw a Com stop and back up to let Wario pass them, every time we played Wario ended up in first place and all them coms helped him get there
When i am playing with my friends and i have a mushroom i always say: throw a blueshell, because you can dodge the blue shell with a mushroom if you time it right
Easier said than done:
"if you time it right"
That’s easy and I like it
@@destroyermcw626 yee, it is very easy, and I thus like to flex on what I can do :P.
@@Aprill264 Ain’t nothing wrong with that
no it is rigged because I have a banana sheild the incoming blue shell HA I have a superhorn CPU in 6 nope lightning and then die
?? English speak don’t you?
@@sootyve3958 saying is he what?
This was super interesting! Had NEVER thought about it in this way before, after all these years. RUclips CAN be a force for good, every now and then 🤣❤️
I have been frustrated many times in MK... but I never even thought of questionning the AI
Lmao. this dude hasn't really played.
If the CPU using the same pattern, shock and blue, ghost and red, red followed by blue, obviously the game is set to stop you. And 4 blue shells in one race never happens online. 2 is normal. Plus shocks are used about 3-5 times a race against thw computer, which is not normal.
I saw someone make this point before, but the CPU is capable of getting 11-12th place items in 5-6th place. But an actual player will get green shells and coins.
The game does cheat, as all games do. It has to make it more dificult somehow lol.
After playing through Mario Kart 8 not once but twice, on Wii U and Switch, I can say confidently that the "AI is not unfair", and that the game's difficulty straddles the line between frustrating and challenging quite well, and that's part of the reason why the game has been well received. The intent of this video was never to define "AI Cheating", you'll notice I never make that claim in the video, and I even show the CPU Item Sheet.
In my opinion, there's no such thing as "AI Cheating", the game is merely designed in a way that some of us can find frustrating. If the game wanted to hit you with 20 blue shells, it could, but it doesn't because they've tried to strike a balance between "so easy its boring" and "so unfair its not fun".
In my experience I was able to 3 star 150cc cups about half of the time, and 200cc cups about 1/3 time. To me, that was satisfactory, but to others this may seem unfair.
I appreciate your opinion on the topic, and thanks for watching!
NIKMOE Ok.. I can 3 star the 150cc cup everytime i play it.. But the computer still cheats.
Sure, a game can be designed to give the computer a extra boost or assistance to make the game more "interesting," but that still can be considered cheating. Compared to playing online or what we are capable of doing, the computer has a huge advantage. This can be considered cheating.
The game does a bunch of unfair things, regardless of the fact that the developers designed the game that way. That just means the develops designed the CPU to cheat, and have an unfair advantage.
I understand the point that it makes the game interesting, but i would still play, and probably enjoy it way more, if the CPU actually got items in the normal pattern like we do.
Kalonji Sams I know this is late, but you DO realize the items you get in MK8 are based off of the distance from 1st place right? ;p
IN MK8 AND MK8D WHAT ITEM YOU GET DEPENDS SOLELY ON HOW FAR AWAY YOU ARE IN FIRST PLACE
Wait... Blue Shell = BS = Bull Shit
Ill leave you to make a joke out of that
Kitten Master
i think the joke is the blue shell in general
I had the hardest time unlocking rosalina in Mario Kart Wii. The Ai is unforgiving. And the slightest nudge knocks you into walls or off the course entirely.
5 times in a row at 150CC I finished 3th in DK Jungle. The last race. Every time the last TURN of the lap. EVERY time the same items. The same moment. The same scene. It's unbelievable..
Mario kart 7's ai was way too unfair. I would be in first place, way ahead of everyone then get hit by a blue then red then lightning, loose my speed, then run into a banana when i slide as i am spinning out from lightning. this would happen multiple times every race.
Sounds like MKWii to me. Blue shell into lighting into two forward reds and then one backwards...
I play the fastest combo on queen bee, and this koopa troopa pipe frame fuck sped up to light speeds and caught up to me in half a lap.
Video doesnt even talk about rubber banding, which is at its core cheating to help the AI compete with players. Being in first means that all of the AI behind you will have their speed increased proportional to their distance from you. He says "rubberbanding" at 7:36, but uses it incorectly, rubber banding isnt connected to items.
Cyrus W that's part of the reason why.this video is so bad.
What I want to know is why the fuck a bad player like this guy is trying to make a video like this. He obviously isn't well versed with the mechanics, let alone the ai and how they actually work in these games.
Another thing I want to know is why Nintendo is too lazy to actually make the AI able to compete with players properly so they don't have to cheat. The Mario Tennis games generally have very good AI (especially Mario Power Tennis which was on the gamecube originally), and can compete with the players properly without cheating. It isn't hard to do that for Mario Kart AI if they did this for a fucking tennis game on the Gamecube well over a decade ago. So why don't they? Oh right, Nintendo is fucking lazy and is far more concerned with milking their fans instead of actually making improvements and innovations for a lot of their games. Like, the "issues" they fixed with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe are all minor issues, none of the big issues like the *Motorcycles not having Wheelies to compete with Karts fire-hopping* were even fixed.
He's also forgetting about the AIs' shared knowledge of your items and each others. They're all constantly aware and can sync their attacks in ways that leave you exposed even with defensive items (common example is a perfect chain of lightning, red shell, blue shell where each comes timed so you have either no item to counter with or way to throw yourself over the map).
Po-ké Watch Take your Mario Kart rip off out of the Mario Kart section please.
that doesnt happen in MK8 and MK8D
Can everyone in this comment section that thinks the ais cheat uhhhh you're wrong
Nah, I’ve kinda mastered having defensive items in hand at all time. What aggravates me is how hitting a CPU with an item doesn’t slow them down as much as it would a player, or that random acceleration they get when you’re riiiiight next to them (and they weren’t drifting or had a boost mushroom). Or how a kart’s stats has no effect on how a CPU performs, but it’s a MAJOR variable when it comes to player-drivers (with most karts having bad handling, except that random one with the clown horn or worst aesthetic design)
You are basically my gaming counselor
Its unfair
try getting good and researching
Have you seen the MK8 AI Physics, they can do do a very sharp turn without loosing barely any speed, while also doing turns players can't do!
Rubberbanding is also a main point the game is unfair. Nik didn't even use the term Ruberband right, as it's not about items it's about when the Ai are far behind you they get a speed boost which makes is much worse. When games require skill and luck and luck is much bigger than skill, then it feels like skill doesn't play apart in it anymore and it's all just RNG which partially it is. The only thing I can agree with Nik is about the defense. The game is fun but you have to admit it is unfair.
If you don't agree with me about the Physics I have proof right here. www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/6kksir/the_dirtiest_trick_a_cpu_has_ever_pulled_on_me/
I put cpu on hard. it's too easy.
Darien Goheen same
Firepal you can
Jez in Mk8 200 cc was actually difficult but in mk8d I can 3 star all cups easily
Andrew Cathon have you turned of smart steering
LemoByte I have played almost every Mario kart game and smart steering is for noobs who can't play
Trust me, the AI were somehow able to snipe so many green shells that I managed to end up breaking the 2DS.
This is an example of how bad moments are good
I think everyone fails to understand why things like this happen. (Multiple blue shells, AI getting bullet bills in 5th, randomly getting items, etc.) is because when the player has a huge lead, the game has to become more fair. This is arguably better than what Mario Kart Wii does, bunching all the AI together and hitting you with a bunch of items at once. I’m a veteran at MK8 and the Deluxe version, and even though I get hit by 2 or 3 blue shells each race and often I get hit by lighting and blooper, this is only the game trying to counter with a challenge, hence making it more fair.
Yeah. It's not just the AI getting Bullet Bills in fifth because you have a great lead, it happens to human players too.
It annoys me so much that the map is disabled in this video
Me: *has all 3 green shells around him
Ai:*throws 3 red shells and none of them hit my green shells
I think the biggest issue is that the AI seems to target the player more than they target the other AIs. I've had the issue multiple times where I'm hit in first place, lose a couple of spots, and then just as I'm recovering, the AI behind me will hit me with a red shell instead of easily passing me and hitting the AI that would have been then in front of it. The decision-making behind this baffles me, as it seems that the game would rather have the AIs be tougher on the player than actually having them try to win.