Maybe that Arkham knight book is apart of the suicide squad timeline I know there’s no proof to it but maybe. Because. It would explain why Batman in that game isn’t really Batman, but those events still happened kinda. But there’s flaws like major flaws, such as Batman, being beaten by street level crooks.
I think he already knew Grundy, because if you pay attention, he kills Grundy in Arkham City, and if he didn't knew that Grundy is resurrected every Monday, why would he kill him? He must have known him for quite a while to know his weakness.
I was going to comment the same thing, I'm glad I'm not alone in this, cause yeah Batman goes for the kill, which he wouldn't do if he didn't know he comes back
The design of Gotham in Arkham Knight is so funny to me, cause what deranged lunatic saw these 8 sparsely connected islands far out in the ocean and thought: "yup perfect place to build a city"
@@Ayyothatsbrandogaming He wasn't. He shoots at the Batboat using a grenade launcher, with Batman blowing up their own(I have the prelude to Arkham City comics).
Blackgate is canon because I’m pretty sure the developers of Shadow took it into consideration while making the game and The Arkham Wing in Origins Blackgate is featured in Arkham Shadow. My headcanon is that the game is canon but instead of Grundy he fought Croc down there instead. Edit: I also think the Arkham City prequel comics are canon because Paul Dini himself wrote those comics to be a direct set up to the video game. Edit 2: Here’s my personal head canon for what’s considered “Hard Canon” or media that’s absolutely canon even with certain inconsistencies. Batman: Arkham Origins Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate Batman: Arkham Shadow Batman: Assault on Arkham Movie Batman: Road to Arkham Prequel Comic Batman: Arkham Asylum Batman: Arkham City Prequel Comics Batman: Arkham City Batman: Arkham City - Endgame Comic Batman: Arkham VR Batman: Arkham Knight
Okay but where does my Arkham Asylum LEGO set from 2013 fit in the timeline though? It has pre-makeover Scarecrow in it so it must take place before the Arkham Asylum game, but it also seems to have Tim Drake Robin in it which would suggest it takes place later on in the timeline. The Robin minifigure isn't technically specified as Tim, so maybe we could say that it's Jason and boom problem solved, but the figure is literally wearing an exact match for Tim Drake's Arkham City costume so it's clearly meant to be Tim. Please I've been sending letters to Rocksteady headquarters asking for clarification on a daily basis for the last 11 years and if I don't get an answer soon I might just be forced to take the LEGO set back to the store and demand a refund.
Joker saying "So, I'm your first, am I, toots? You know what they say, you never forget your first time" doesn't necessarily mean that's their first ever interaction. It could simply be referring to Joker being the first patient she is assigned to treat since being hired there. Her first time treating someone at Arkham Asylum specifically, not her first time ever treating Joker in general.
After Origins came out, that's how I interpreted it. I can see Harley being so smitten with Joker that she transferred to Arkham just to be close to him.
I feel like the riddler novel should be canon if the oracle thing is the only continuity error. A single error is just an error rather than invalidating the whole book
I’m just gonna say something everybody should know. Officiality doesn’t equal legitimacy. So if you want to think of Assault on Arkham as canon and Kill The Justice League as non canon, you have the right to do so. Just like what Star Wars fans do with the Disney canon and EU.
That's not the same thing, star wars legends is it's own seperate form of Canon Disney chose those name Canon to give there storyline legitimacy, legends is still canon, to the legends timeline, hence why the wiki has 2 timelines for legends and Canon
Yea, It doesn't matter if a mostly completely different rocksteady except for one dude who later left said it's canon, If the whole world rejects your game, it's no longer canon, at the end of the day All star batman is not batman, at the end of the day the fandom is what allows these things to exist, if your players hate you, you have no game, look at concord for example, gone, turned to oblivion. I'm not saying anything about it's quality, I'm talking about it's inclusion in the original series, If extremely loyal fans ALL come together to reject your game, you just fucked up that badly and it will stay non-canon
For me, I’d like to consider suicide squad kill the Justice league is like a branch timeline like something that still happening in the same universe but in a different span of events.
It's similar for me too my headcannon is that suicide squad is an alternate timeline just like Gotham knights I refuse to accept that this all took place in the original cannon timeline you know there's still something I didn't understand once the writers found out how ppl hated the game why couldn't they release the statement saying that the game takes place in the alternate time not the original this way everyone would have been happy and the legacy of Kevin wouldn't have been ruined either we are the reason they make money they should acknowledge our opinion of suicide squad not being cannon and accept it it's the least they can do
Victor Sase?! Also in Arkham City the stories say that Joker and Harley escape Asylum via boat get intercepted by Batman and wash up on shore to Arkham City
What's tricky about that Arkham story is that in Joker's interview tapes, he says "a big truck brought me here from Arkham". Then again, he's not exactly known for his honesty, and you could argue he was just oversimplifying to segway into talking about the Asylum, but still, it's an interesting inconsistency.
@@Seven-Seas-of-Baba-O-RileyYou misunderstand. That "big truck" is just Jerker referring to Batman's magnum dong, which we know is canon because Jiggler is gay.
The Arkham City prequel comics were written by Paul Dini (the writer for Asylum and City) and are referenced in City through its stories, they’re as canon as the games. Also Road to Arkham does have a slight continuity error specifically about Zsasz; we know that Zsasz escaped Arkham either the same day or a day after Joker did according to their interview tapes. Both escaped in late December (22nd or 23rd) and Victor immediately went to dr Cassidy’s apartment and kidnapped her (again according to the interview tapes). According to Oracle Arkham Asylum takes place 2 months after dr Young’s realisation that she was being funded by Joker, which coincided with his escape (same thing is mentioned in the comic), so late February. Yet Oracle in the comic states that Batman took down Zsasz in the current month (comic takes place minutes before the game so it would be early February), that would mean Zsasz kept dr Cassidy captive for about a month without killing her, which is very unlike Zsasz. Still a very minor inconsistency, Batman could have just captured Zsasz in January.
If the comic or material outside games referred to in the arkham stories found in the games when you solve riddles they are canon. Batman chasing Harley and joker in the batboat is referred to in the arkham stories, black mask trying to escape Arkham city by blowing up a part of the wall is Canon The Harley Quinn, catwoman and Ivy team up was canon as well since these explain the reason Ivy is mad at Selina and all these were written by Paul Dini, the road to arkham Asylum and City comics are canon. I agree with everything you said.
There's also the fact that in the Arkham knight prequel comics, Harley and Batman interact quite a lot, and when Harley Quinn shows up in Arkham Knight, she acts as if they haven't seen each other since the events of Arkham City and Harley Quinn's revenge
In regards to the Harley inconsistency, I’ve always felt that the character bios in Asylum aren’t canon. There’s plenty of bios for characters which are introduced at a later stage, Hush’s bio alone can’t exists “in universe” at that point. That, combined with the fact that they state “first issue” sort of implies it’s not Batman’s file, it’s the player’s
Considering it was the first game, and they couldn't be sure if they could make a sequel, they just put in some comic or animated series lore, for the players. That is all.
There is exactly one way for SSKTJL to be canon and I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed in like Season 5 or 6 (assuming the game doesn't get cancelled at this point): It takes place on an alternate Earth. The game is straight up a Multiverse story with the main goal being that the squad travels to alternate Earths to take down Brainiac so every continuity issue can be written off as "alternate universe" which will either have been planned from the beginning or a panic move done when the game got such a negative response. If that is not the official explanation, then the game will never be canon because there's just way too many things that don't make sense or were done poorly like the original Deadshot being "from another universe" instead of simply being an imposter. And even then, the game has left such a bad taste in people's mouths that most people won't care. Hell I'm considering it an alternate Earth regardless of whether it's official or not because that makes it easy to ignore it.
You missed Arkham City Endgame, which came out in 2012 and revealed The Joker was incinerated. Decent story and absolutely fits between City and Knight
Being that there is so much to look at when it comes to the Arkhamverse and not knowing which stuff is actually Canon you summed it up really well and it was easy to understand (Kinda)
I never interpreted the Grundy fight in City as their first meeting. I always took the presentation as trying to say “ahh fuck, and I almost had Penguin” . I think this is supported by Batman not being too caught off guard by Grundy and also willingly electrocuting him, suggesting that Batman knows that can’t truly kill Grundy.
Now this is my personal opinion but even though rocksteady made SSKTJL and the Arkhamverse as a whole it is all still a fictional universe that leaves most of what happens off screen that isn’t shown in game upto our interpretation so therefore WE can decide what’s canon and what’s not. Great video btw GP 😊😊😊
I’ve never read the comic in question, I always assumed he knew Batman was real because someone apprehended calendar man but your right he just didn’t want to admit it
Batman also meets Penguin for the first time in the game which he also does in the comic, rendering the comic non canon. But they’re still sources of inspiration for the mainline games which is why Ryan took inspiration fron Ratcatcher in that comic
I read that comic two times, but given that it's an "interactive" comic where you can choose different paths, I never met Gordon through my choices and still made it to the end. So maybe it is canon, just not with the path where you meet Gordon.
@@DeathHeadCZ every path ends with him meeting Penguin unfortunately, rendering all paths non canon I’m pretty sure. I view comics and media like that in the same way I view the Star Wars EU. Not canon but still a valid source of inspiration for mainline continuity and still a place to pull ideas and themes from.
@@kylerpruitt1620totally possible I missed it, but where in Origins is it established that Penguin and Batman meet for the first time specifically during the Arkham Origins main campaign? I always kinda figured they knew each other, given how Batman's first thought after learning of the assassins was to track him down for information.
Yup, I don't consider SSKTJL to be canon. Tbh, I didn't know that Riddler's Gambit novel even existed. Oh, and I think you missed one Arkham game; the sadly short lived 2016 mobile game Batman Arkham Underworld. The premise of the game is the player with the goal of becoming Gotham's next criminal kingpin recruits Batman rogues as Riddler, Harley, Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, & Bane (there were plans to add villains like Twoface, Ivy and more but game shutdown before they got released). Of course, it wouldn't be canon but game had PvE & PvP gameplay elements which was quite fun.
Arkham vr has a huge piece of evidence making it officially cannon as in one of the extra modes where you can fight bad guys in wayne manor in the Arkham city game, you can find the cell joker is in that later you get trapped in during the vr story sketched onto a drawing board when you mess with the piano in one of the rooms. And just to point out that same wayne manor is then seen in Arkham knight in the same game mode so it has to be cannon.
SSKTJL not only isn't canon, but it didn't actually get made. I know you're saying, but it exists I've played it!... sorry, no you didn't. Mandela effect. Never happened.
Nothing in Arkham City implies Batman hasn't met Grundy before. In fact, Batman doesn't talk to or about Grundy at all, the only person that addresses Grundy directly is Penguin. If anything Batman's complete lack of a reaction to Grundy's existence makes me think that definitely wasn't the first time they met. I also don't think Batman would've been so violent in their fight if he didn't know Grundy couldn't die. I mean Penguin said he couldn't but I don't think Batman would take that risk based off of his word alone, and even Penguin wasn't actually sure if Grundy could die or not.
Although the comics don’t necessarily break any game canon,it justs take a lot of admit that the comic events are canon,in an Arkham knight comic Harley knows Jason is the knight,like Harley woulda ever keep that secret
Arkham timeline (aside from the main games) are like puzzle pieces that tried to connect with one another but it kept missing some pieces that should connect but instead added new pieces that doesnt connect with anything at all
Well, one nice thing aboout works of fiction, you can always decide yourself what is and isn't your own personal canon for you. And even very autors of said fiction can't stop you from doing that.
I strongly believe that all 4 games are enough to built a canon universe and not asking too much, there is enough in those And fuck off Suicid Squad game, no debate
Tbh KTJL is super overhated. It was fun for a while and the story isn’t over yet so I’ll wait until the fourth season ends to decide if they “disrespected” Bats’ legacy or not
@@Rhycizthey are bringing him back however, it ends after that they are not working on anymore content they are being force to produce these last seasons.
@@Rhycizalso overhated? Nope I think it’s perfectly hated or not even hated enough. This is the equivalent of all of the bad writing aspects of a David Cage story.
So I don't understand one of these points, Arkham Origins: Blackgate is non-canon because the cinematic camera angles makes it feel like Arkham City is the first time they met, but Batman dreaming of a Killer Croc with the Arkham Knight mutations before Arkham Knight is easier to believe? I totally think it is possible in 9 months, Batman could have seen Croc in that condition, but that feels like a much bigger stretch than the Grundy thing. Plus Arkham Shadow, a game considered fully canon to you is taking the explosive gel launcher that was introduced in that game. To me both games can still technically work in canon, but I found that to be an interesting sticking point here.
I see your points, but another thing Arkham Shadow is doing is using the Beacon hotel from the Arkham Origins PREQUEL comics, and those comics aren’t canon to ME. So it’s more of a messy situation where they take inspiration from other games to fit into their canon.
@@GothamPaladin I'm certainly not telling you that you have to change your mind on Blackgate, it definitely isn't anybody's favorite game, I just felt like the logic is strange. I plan to do my own Arkham marathon when Shadow is releasing, and Origins and Blackgate are definitely fitting before that when I do it. Hopefully the final few SS seasons are added or close to done by then, I'm hoping to touch on almost everything, even as far as Riddler's Gambit.
Assault on Arkham is fun but I think it contradicts Asylum. It is supposed to take place before that, yet in Asylum, you'd think they'd mentioned that a similar massive breakout had happened before.
Does anyone else find it kind of a missed opportunity that Assault on Arkham, some of the Arkham mobile games and the comics aren’t canon? Like those comics could have been a chance to show more of the Arkham universe beyond what the games showed us. All they had to do was to make sure there weren’t too many inconsistencies
Love the Video!! IMO i feel like the Arkham Asylum game itself is Canon, but the Bio database entries and interview logs are non canon. They bring up Hush as an established villain, who then is introduced for the first time in the next game. They talk about strange already knowing who batman is, but Bruce doesnt know that till after City starts. Most likely because they probably didnt know this game would get a sequel at the time and also probably didnt know what story it would take. The database stuff felt more like fan service/comic acknowledgement
i'm not sure, and i don't play the game, but apparently suicide squad kills the justice league is releasing a new season that you go to the arkhamverse, decanonising the game from the main storyline. Again I'm not sure and I don't play the game either so I could, and potencialy am, Wrong
Blackgate is definetly canon. It's never stated in City that Batman never fought Grundy before. Batman knows that punching his glowing heart thingie wouldn't kill him, so he has prior knowledge of him.
Also if that’s true it contradicts suicide squad considering Waller in the game says this is the first time she has made the squad in Blackgate she recruited Deadshot and Bronze Tyger at the end of the game. This contradicts her statement and the Black Deadshot’s statement.
I can explain Arkham Origins inconsistencies Harley was only doing what she wants and she was not a actual doctor and I believe Dr Young detoxicated Bane it took a long time
Although there is technically nothing that definitively states that Batman didn’t know who Grundy was in Arkham city it feels really weird that he appears in Blackgate. Literally, they just replaced him with killer croc I would have no issue stating that the game is Canon. I still like the story of the game and I like to think something similar happened, but for the same reason, I don’t consider the Arkham night comics to be canon because of the fate of Bane I can’t consider the game itself to canon
I think blackgate is actually canon because how else would Batman already know he can kill Grundy in city without having already fought him? Like sure, he’s obviously a zombie, but Batman WOULD NOT be ok with killing him without already knowing FOR SURE through research after an interaction
In case you didn't know, in recent season of SS:KTJL the Flash turned out to be alive and now being recovered by Waller, Freeze etc. confirming by that, that the league in the game were clones and Batman is alive, in case you were worried. Hope we will see a League in action in the finale 🙏🙏🙏
Most likely not if so it will be rushed and not on screen due to the fact they are not working on any new content anymore. The game is ending after deathstroke season.
@@greytakerrev7147 But the Flash is alive already in the game's most recent episode. I guess Batman will come back the next season with Deadshot's daughter because they are adding Gotham.
I personally feel like Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League fits better in the Injustice Universe, while Gotham Knights should have been Canon to the Arkham Verse
Arkham knight ending will always make me think that Batman died for real, for me bruce sent alfred on a life-time vacation in one of his many islands (with yow rich bruce is, hes GOTTA have bought some islands)
@@dukeslytalker1192 I kinda thought it was cannon cuz Waller was getting deadshot and tiger and bane kinda like how she was recruiting deathstroke in Arkham origins
What about the Arkham Unhinged comics? From my memory they didn't do anything that contradicted the canon, and they expanded on Two-Face and Catwoman's battle for the microchip and how Joker and Penguin came to recruit their half of the Abramovici Twins
for me personally origins to knight is canon even though the lore established can be shaky such as when Harley met Joker in asylum but in origins they met in blackgate or how Gordon aged 20 years even though it was 5 years between origins and asylum however the arkham universe is it's own batman universe where many top batman villains die such as Joker and Strange but is still a fantastic universe that has the same writer as the animated series definitely the best batman game universe
11:12 On the arkham city stories included in the game its mentioned Batman chased Harley & Joker while they escaped on boat and they ended up on arkham city!
Tbh i fully agree, some things make sense in things that aren't canon and really the only basis we have to go off of are the main games so i can't say i disagree with any of this
I think Batman wondering if Barbara knows who he is might probably refer to his Joker toxin infection, which by Arkham VR we know was seriously troubling him.
I am willing to bet everything that Riddler's Gambit is canon and they just made an incredible blunder with Oracle not knowing Bruce's identity since she's known since she was Batgirl.
Another great video Paladin! I agree with practically all your points. I feel like franchises whose main medium are video games, those stories' canon is solid there. Then the comics and novels as well as other supplementary information is really up in the air and for each person to decide. Great job and keep up the good work! 🙂
I agree with all the points in the video and I do feel like certain select things from the comics should be Canon and if anything ever contradicts the games I just assumed the games are correct. But with the most respect in mind the end of the video felt like when you're trying to get 8000 word essay done
This is not the first time you've said Grundy is first seen in City, but there is still literally nothing to suggest that. Like literally nothing. Your evidence is the camera angle? What does that even mean lmao
Arkham shadow is canon and it is a sequel to origins so that makes origins canon and Arkham vr is canon as it was kind of confirmed and it makes sense.
Thks for the wonderful vid man. I really read and bought some of the Arkham City comics and Arkham Knight Genesis comic. But I've never really understand what is considered canon to the Arkhamverse besides the mainline games but I watch this video, hopefully this might help clear up some inconsistencies with the timeline itself.
Hey @GothamPaladin the part where you talk about the Arkham City comics, specifically where the Joker and Harley escape to Arkham City is consistent with the lore as an Arkham City story that you can unlock called “A Sick Plan” details the pairs escape from Arkham where they’re chased down by Batman who proceeds to gun down their boat whilst in the Bat-Boat. The story ends with them evading Batman’s signal light whilst realizing that they’d made it to the shore of Arkham City.
The Riddler novel also says thst batman fought joker in a bank in arkham city (this happened in origins), and riddler says that Arkham City was his last encounter with Batman in Arkham Knight. I don't know for sure though, but i remember being really confused by that first one.
the main issue is, that those plot lines are massive/too important for batman not to mention them so i agree that the only one that is canon is the aa prequel comic because in the beggining of the game (when you just take control of batman for the first time) you can approach the guards and they will ask/comment about the "joker going after the mayor" incident, as for the movie im 50/50 on it being canon because i say again, it would be weird for batman not to recall he took on the ss to someone close to him, basically the events that happend are quite big for batman not to make some sort of recall on them or some of his ally's not to comment on them in the main 4 games.
*side note but then again you can get a rare comment (right after she tells you where the rest of the doctors are) in which sarah says that she never thought batman was even real but in the prequel comic she got saved by him??? soooo im now like tf?????😭😭😭😭
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Just leaving this here, after Batman Arkham Shadow…I now see that Batman Arkham Origins Blackgate is canon!
Yeah this aged bad lol
The Goat is here
Maybe that Arkham knight book is apart of the suicide squad timeline I know there’s no proof to it but maybe. Because. It would explain why Batman in that game isn’t really Batman, but those events still happened kinda. But there’s flaws like major flaws, such as Batman, being beaten by street level crooks.
I love how we've all just collectively agreed to not accept Suicide Squad as Arkhamverse canon no matter what WB or Rocksteady says lmao
Yo I love your content man you deserve to be pin
😮
@@cestmoifr appreciate it my guy🙏
More true than arkhamverse is better than spiderman
@@Knerd-YTYou're the best Knerd man, I know you can hit 1m
I think he already knew Grundy, because if you pay attention, he kills Grundy in Arkham City, and if he didn't knew that Grundy is resurrected every Monday, why would he kill him? He must have known him for quite a while to know his weakness.
Agreed
Good point, he wouldn't kill if he didn't know the opponent is immortal.
I was going to comment the same thing, I'm glad I'm not alone in this, cause yeah Batman goes for the kill, which he wouldn't do if he didn't know he comes back
yet there's a nursery rhyme i bet he knew too and heard the rumors about him
@@васяпупкин-х2з7о You'd think he would risk it if he wasn't 100% sure he revives?
Cause I don't
9:36 "Victor Zase" You'll never live this down GP... NEVER!!!
Fr 😭
Yeah, that's a pretty tough blunder lol
The design of Gotham in Arkham Knight is so funny to me, cause what deranged lunatic saw these 8 sparsely connected islands far out in the ocean and thought: "yup perfect place to build a city"
😭😭
John Goth A.M.
It's more common than what you think. There are many cities that are built on islands and they look pretty cool.
There are many cities in islands.
Ever heard of New York?
GP putting fries in the bag is a canon event.
Why is there a World of Tshirts reference here
@@Crizzly122i think i’ll take my whiskey neat
Joker fighting Batman before entering Arkham City is mentioned in an Arkham City story so maybe Joker didn't remember their last encounter very well
He was unconscious if I’m not mistaken. Was it the one where Batman was pursuing him and Harley in the batboat?
@@Ayyothatsbrandogaming yes to was that one
I mean joker isn't exactly a reliable source anyway, unless he's consistent about it best to assume it was a joke, or an atrocity he committed
@@Ayyothatsbrandogaming He wasn't. He shoots at the Batboat using a grenade launcher, with Batman blowing up their own(I have the prelude to Arkham City comics).
Blackgate is canon because I’m pretty sure the developers of Shadow took it into consideration while making the game and The Arkham Wing in Origins Blackgate is featured in Arkham Shadow. My headcanon is that the game is canon but instead of Grundy he fought Croc down there instead.
Edit: I also think the Arkham City prequel comics are canon because Paul Dini himself wrote those comics to be a direct set up to the video game.
Edit 2: Here’s my personal head canon for what’s considered “Hard Canon” or media that’s absolutely canon even with certain inconsistencies.
Batman: Arkham Origins
Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate
Batman: Arkham Shadow
Batman: Assault on Arkham Movie
Batman: Road to Arkham Prequel Comic
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Batman: Arkham City Prequel Comics
Batman: Arkham City
Batman: Arkham City - Endgame Comic
Batman: Arkham VR
Batman: Arkham Knight
My thoughts too
Agreed
Yeah Sounds Good and Chronologically Accurate.
Okay but where does my Arkham Asylum LEGO set from 2013 fit in the timeline though? It has pre-makeover Scarecrow in it so it must take place before the Arkham Asylum game, but it also seems to have Tim Drake Robin in it which would suggest it takes place later on in the timeline. The Robin minifigure isn't technically specified as Tim, so maybe we could say that it's Jason and boom problem solved, but the figure is literally wearing an exact match for Tim Drake's Arkham City costume so it's clearly meant to be Tim. Please I've been sending letters to Rocksteady headquarters asking for clarification on a daily basis for the last 11 years and if I don't get an answer soon I might just be forced to take the LEGO set back to the store and demand a refund.
@@HOTD108_good boy
Joker saying "So, I'm your first, am I, toots? You know what they say, you never forget your first time" doesn't necessarily mean that's their first ever interaction. It could simply be referring to Joker being the first patient she is assigned to treat since being hired there. Her first time treating someone at Arkham Asylum specifically, not her first time ever treating Joker in general.
@JakeyJ918 Better to explain it than have people assume it's a continuity error.
After Origins came out, that's how I interpreted it. I can see Harley being so smitten with Joker that she transferred to Arkham just to be close to him.
@JakeyJ918 "it's not that deep bro 🤓"
Yes it is, it's exactly THAT deep
I feel like the riddler novel should be canon if the oracle thing is the only continuity error. A single error is just an error rather than invalidating the whole book
Apparently. It's also stated hugo strange robs a bank with mad hatter another comment said dont know how true that is
I’m just gonna say something everybody should know. Officiality doesn’t equal legitimacy. So if you want to think of Assault on Arkham as canon and Kill The Justice League as non canon, you have the right to do so. Just like what Star Wars fans do with the Disney canon and EU.
That's not the same thing, star wars legends is it's own seperate form of Canon Disney chose those name Canon to give there storyline legitimacy, legends is still canon, to the legends timeline, hence why the wiki has 2 timelines for legends and Canon
@@calebbarnhouse496Dictate the laws of canon, a fan wiki does not.
@@HOTD108_ ok dumbass
Yea, It doesn't matter if a mostly completely different rocksteady except for one dude who later left said it's canon, If the whole world rejects your game, it's no longer canon, at the end of the day All star batman is not batman, at the end of the day the fandom is what allows these things to exist, if your players hate you, you have no game, look at concord for example, gone, turned to oblivion. I'm not saying anything about it's quality, I'm talking about it's inclusion in the original series, If extremely loyal fans ALL come together to reject your game, you just fucked up that badly and it will stay non-canon
@@calebbarnhouse496 But most fans myself included reject the Disney BS outright which is what the OP is saying.
For me, I’d like to consider suicide squad kill the Justice league is like a branch timeline like something that still happening in the same universe but in a different span of events.
It's similar for me too my headcannon is that suicide squad is an alternate timeline just like Gotham knights I refuse to accept that this all took place in the original cannon timeline you know there's still something I didn't understand once the writers found out how ppl hated the game why couldn't they release the statement saying that the game takes place in the alternate time not the original this way everyone would have been happy and the legacy of Kevin wouldn't have been ruined either we are the reason they make money they should acknowledge our opinion of suicide squad not being cannon and accept it it's the least they can do
The Arkham comics are like The FNAF books where some of the stuff in the comics/books are canon and some are not canon.
If it isn’t directly canon, the concept will at least weasel its way into canon
Origins blackgate is canon now thanks to Shadow
Unlike Rocksteady I never thought SSKTJL is cannon too.
Victor Sase?!
Also in Arkham City the stories say that Joker and Harley escape Asylum via boat get intercepted by Batman and wash up on shore to Arkham City
What's tricky about that Arkham story is that in Joker's interview tapes, he says "a big truck brought me here from Arkham". Then again, he's not exactly known for his honesty, and you could argue he was just oversimplifying to segway into talking about the Asylum, but still, it's an interesting inconsistency.
No no it's actually Victor Sass. Gotham's most yassified criminal.
@@Seven-Seas-of-Baba-O-RileyYou misunderstand. That "big truck" is just Jerker referring to Batman's magnum dong, which we know is canon because Jiggler is gay.
The Arkham City prequel comics were written by Paul Dini (the writer for Asylum and City) and are referenced in City through its stories, they’re as canon as the games. Also Road to Arkham does have a slight continuity error specifically about Zsasz; we know that Zsasz escaped Arkham either the same day or a day after Joker did according to their interview tapes. Both escaped in late December (22nd or 23rd) and Victor immediately went to dr Cassidy’s apartment and kidnapped her (again according to the interview tapes). According to Oracle Arkham Asylum takes place 2 months after dr Young’s realisation that she was being funded by Joker, which coincided with his escape (same thing is mentioned in the comic), so late February. Yet Oracle in the comic states that Batman took down Zsasz in the current month (comic takes place minutes before the game so it would be early February), that would mean Zsasz kept dr Cassidy captive for about a month without killing her, which is very unlike Zsasz. Still a very minor inconsistency, Batman could have just captured Zsasz in January.
If the comic or material outside games referred to in the arkham stories found in the games when you solve riddles they are canon.
Batman chasing Harley and joker in the batboat is referred to in the arkham stories, black mask trying to escape Arkham city by blowing up a part of the wall is Canon
The Harley Quinn, catwoman and Ivy team up was canon as well since these explain the reason Ivy is mad at Selina and all these were written by Paul Dini, the road to arkham Asylum and City comics are canon.
I agree with everything you said.
Yeah I think because Paul wrote both, that automatically makes it canon
There's also the fact that in the Arkham knight prequel comics, Harley and Batman interact quite a lot, and when Harley Quinn shows up in Arkham Knight, she acts as if they haven't seen each other since the events of Arkham City and Harley Quinn's revenge
GP beating Arkham City with no damage was not canon
In regards to the Harley inconsistency,
I’ve always felt that the character bios in Asylum aren’t canon.
There’s plenty of bios for characters which are introduced at a later stage, Hush’s bio alone can’t exists “in universe” at that point.
That, combined with the fact that they state “first issue” sort of implies it’s not Batman’s file, it’s the player’s
This is a really good point
Considering it was the first game, and they couldn't be sure if they could make a sequel, they just put in some comic or animated series lore, for the players. That is all.
There is exactly one way for SSKTJL to be canon and I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed in like Season 5 or 6 (assuming the game doesn't get cancelled at this point):
It takes place on an alternate Earth.
The game is straight up a Multiverse story with the main goal being that the squad travels to alternate Earths to take down Brainiac so every continuity issue can be written off as "alternate universe" which will either have been planned from the beginning or a panic move done when the game got such a negative response.
If that is not the official explanation, then the game will never be canon because there's just way too many things that don't make sense or were done poorly like the original Deadshot being "from another universe" instead of simply being an imposter.
And even then, the game has left such a bad taste in people's mouths that most people won't care. Hell I'm considering it an alternate Earth regardless of whether it's official or not because that makes it easy to ignore it.
Now that Arkham Shadow is out, it also confirms Origins blackgate to be cannon too
You missed Arkham City Endgame, which came out in 2012 and revealed The Joker was incinerated. Decent story and absolutely fits between City and Knight
Blackgate is canonically set in between Origins and Shadow.
Being that there is so much to look at when it comes to the Arkhamverse and not knowing which stuff is actually Canon you summed it up really well and it was easy to understand (Kinda)
Victor “Zase” is rough, man 😂
New rocksteady doesn't get to dictate whats canon or not because there's no one left from the og arkham series on the dev team
Yeah because Sefton left when bad press came out about the game 😂
I never interpreted the Grundy fight in City as their first meeting. I always took the presentation as trying to say “ahh fuck, and I almost had Penguin” . I think this is supported by Batman not being too caught off guard by Grundy and also willingly electrocuting him, suggesting that Batman knows that can’t truly kill Grundy.
Now this is my personal opinion but even though rocksteady made SSKTJL and the Arkhamverse as a whole it is all still a fictional universe that leaves most of what happens off screen that isn’t shown in game upto our interpretation so therefore WE can decide what’s canon and what’s not. Great video btw GP 😊😊😊
You are not a batman fan if you can't pronounce Victor Zsasz. Batman literally says his name constantly during his missions and in Gotham.
I agree, I’ve heard people mess up his name before
my answer for why Gordan saw bats in the comic but said there's no such thing as a batman he didn't want the city to know
I’ve never read the comic in question, I always assumed he knew Batman was real because someone apprehended calendar man but your right he just didn’t want to admit it
Batman also meets Penguin for the first time in the game which he also does in the comic, rendering the comic non canon. But they’re still sources of inspiration for the mainline games which is why Ryan took inspiration fron Ratcatcher in that comic
I read that comic two times, but given that it's an "interactive" comic where you can choose different paths, I never met Gordon through my choices and still made it to the end. So maybe it is canon, just not with the path where you meet Gordon.
@@DeathHeadCZ every path ends with him meeting Penguin unfortunately, rendering all paths non canon I’m pretty sure. I view comics and media like that in the same way I view the Star Wars EU. Not canon but still a valid source of inspiration for mainline continuity and still a place to pull ideas and themes from.
@@kylerpruitt1620totally possible I missed it, but where in Origins is it established that Penguin and Batman meet for the first time specifically during the Arkham Origins main campaign? I always kinda figured they knew each other, given how Batman's first thought after learning of the assassins was to track him down for information.
Yup, I don't consider SSKTJL to be canon.
Tbh, I didn't know that Riddler's Gambit novel even existed.
Oh, and I think you missed one Arkham game; the sadly short lived 2016 mobile game Batman Arkham Underworld.
The premise of the game is the player with the goal of becoming Gotham's next criminal kingpin recruits Batman rogues as Riddler, Harley, Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, & Bane (there were plans to add villains like Twoface, Ivy and more but game shutdown before they got released).
Of course, it wouldn't be canon but game had PvE & PvP gameplay elements which was quite fun.
Arkham vr has a huge piece of evidence making it officially cannon as in one of the extra modes where you can fight bad guys in wayne manor in the Arkham city game, you can find the cell joker is in that later you get trapped in during the vr story sketched onto a drawing board when you mess with the piano in one of the rooms. And just to point out that same wayne manor is then seen in Arkham knight in the same game mode so it has to be cannon.
SSKTJL not only isn't canon, but it didn't actually get made. I know you're saying, but it exists I've played it!... sorry, no you didn't. Mandela effect. Never happened.
Yep, I've never even heard of a SSKTJL.
@@jorgyt754What's a SSKTJL?
I didn’t know one comment could make me so happy
It's unfortunate that we can't just will something out of existence
@@universejumper5371 I'm afraid we just did!
“Victor Zais” 💀
Nothing in Arkham City implies Batman hasn't met Grundy before. In fact, Batman doesn't talk to or about Grundy at all, the only person that addresses Grundy directly is Penguin. If anything Batman's complete lack of a reaction to Grundy's existence makes me think that definitely wasn't the first time they met. I also don't think Batman would've been so violent in their fight if he didn't know Grundy couldn't die. I mean Penguin said he couldn't but I don't think Batman would take that risk based off of his word alone, and even Penguin wasn't actually sure if Grundy could die or not.
Although the comics don’t necessarily break any game canon,it justs take a lot of admit that the comic events are canon,in an Arkham knight comic Harley knows Jason is the knight,like Harley woulda ever keep that secret
Arkham timeline (aside from the main games) are like puzzle pieces that tried to connect with one another but it kept missing some pieces that should connect but instead added new pieces that doesnt connect with anything at all
Well, one nice thing aboout works of fiction, you can always decide yourself what is and isn't your own personal canon for you. And even very autors of said fiction can't stop you from doing that.
Justice League lose to Brainiac, when one superman can defeat Brainiac on his own.
Great video man on Batman Arkham canon also I agree suicide squad kill the justice league isn’t canon.
I strongly believe that all 4 games are enough to built a canon universe and not asking too much, there is enough in those
And fuck off Suicid Squad game, no debate
Tbh KTJL is super overhated. It was fun for a while and the story isn’t over yet so I’ll wait until the fourth season ends to decide if they “disrespected” Bats’ legacy or not
@@Rhycizthey are bringing him back however, it ends after that they are not working on anymore content they are being force to produce these last seasons.
@@Rhycizalso overhated? Nope I think it’s perfectly hated or not even hated enough. This is the equivalent of all of the bad writing aspects of a David Cage story.
So I don't understand one of these points, Arkham Origins: Blackgate is non-canon because the cinematic camera angles makes it feel like Arkham City is the first time they met, but Batman dreaming of a Killer Croc with the Arkham Knight mutations before Arkham Knight is easier to believe? I totally think it is possible in 9 months, Batman could have seen Croc in that condition, but that feels like a much bigger stretch than the Grundy thing. Plus Arkham Shadow, a game considered fully canon to you is taking the explosive gel launcher that was introduced in that game. To me both games can still technically work in canon, but I found that to be an interesting sticking point here.
I see your points, but another thing Arkham Shadow is doing is using the Beacon hotel from the Arkham Origins PREQUEL comics, and those comics aren’t canon to ME. So it’s more of a messy situation where they take inspiration from other games to fit into their canon.
@@GothamPaladin I'm certainly not telling you that you have to change your mind on Blackgate, it definitely isn't anybody's favorite game, I just felt like the logic is strange. I plan to do my own Arkham marathon when Shadow is releasing, and Origins and Blackgate are definitely fitting before that when I do it. Hopefully the final few SS seasons are added or close to done by then, I'm hoping to touch on almost everything, even as far as Riddler's Gambit.
always a fire day when bro uploads
Assault on Arkham is fun but I think it contradicts Asylum. It is supposed to take place before that, yet in Asylum, you'd think they'd mentioned that a similar massive breakout had happened before.
There’s another continuity error in Riddler’s Gambit revolving Hugo Strange robbing a bank with Mad Hatter iirc
Blackgate is canon now
Thats Racist!!!
Does anyone else find it kind of a missed opportunity that Assault on Arkham, some of the Arkham mobile games and the comics aren’t canon? Like those comics could have been a chance to show more of the Arkham universe beyond what the games showed us. All they had to do was to make sure there weren’t too many inconsistencies
Love the Video!! IMO i feel like the Arkham Asylum game itself is Canon, but the Bio database entries and interview logs are non canon. They bring up Hush as an established villain, who then is introduced for the first time in the next game. They talk about strange already knowing who batman is, but Bruce doesnt know that till after City starts.
Most likely because they probably didnt know this game would get a sequel at the time and also probably didnt know what story it would take. The database stuff felt more like fan service/comic acknowledgement
im very upset, i didnt see a single canon
i'm not sure, and i don't play the game, but apparently suicide squad kills the justice league is releasing a new season that you go to the arkhamverse, decanonising the game from the main storyline. Again I'm not sure and I don't play the game either so I could, and potencialy am, Wrong
Blackgate is definetly canon. It's never stated in City that Batman never fought Grundy before.
Batman knows that punching his glowing heart thingie wouldn't kill him, so he has prior knowledge of him.
Also if that’s true it contradicts suicide squad considering Waller in the game says this is the first time she has made the squad in Blackgate she recruited Deadshot and Bronze Tyger at the end of the game. This contradicts her statement and the Black Deadshot’s statement.
in Arkham Origins Batman actually kissed Oracle at the GCPD and then griddyd away from Gordon (canon)
Ah yes pedo batman
The database entries are not always canon, most of Asylum's ones are now wrong.
What about the arkham unhinged comics? They are like the city stories but illustrated, with some additional scenes
I can explain Arkham Origins inconsistencies Harley was only doing what she wants and she was not a actual doctor and I believe Dr Young detoxicated Bane it took a long time
Amazing Vid man , and SSKTJL is not a game it’s a laughing stock 😭🙏
Although there is technically nothing that definitively states that Batman didn’t know who Grundy was in Arkham city it feels really weird that he appears in Blackgate.
Literally, they just replaced him with killer croc I would have no issue stating that the game is Canon.
I still like the story of the game and I like to think something similar happened, but for the same reason, I don’t consider the Arkham night comics to be canon because of the fate of Bane I can’t consider the game itself to canon
i lover ur vids bro, have a good life my man
I think blackgate is actually canon because how else would Batman already know he can kill Grundy in city without having already fought him? Like sure, he’s obviously a zombie, but Batman WOULD NOT be ok with killing him without already knowing FOR SURE through research after an interaction
In case you didn't know, in recent season of SS:KTJL the Flash turned out to be alive and now being recovered by Waller, Freeze etc. confirming by that, that the league in the game were clones and Batman is alive, in case you were worried. Hope we will see a League in action in the finale 🙏🙏🙏
4 months until batman is due to return
@@MrMagicianJr Hell yeah
Most likely not if so it will be rushed and not on screen due to the fact they are not working on any new content anymore. The game is ending after deathstroke season.
@@greytakerrev7147 But the Flash is alive already in the game's most recent episode. I guess Batman will come back the next season with Deadshot's daughter because they are adding Gotham.
I personally feel like Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League fits better in the Injustice Universe, while Gotham Knights should have been Canon to the Arkham Verse
Arkham knight ending will always make me think that Batman died for real, for me bruce sent alfred on a life-time vacation in one of his many islands (with yow rich bruce is, hes GOTTA have bought some islands)
15:55 maybe the joker is asking that ? Kinda a hint for the blood plot
I like to think Arkham Origins Blackgate is canon
Loving the content almost at a 100K 🎉🎉
I’m kinda 50 50 on the black gate spinoff
I think its canon except replace grundy with croc
@@dukeslytalker1192 I kinda thought it was cannon cuz Waller was getting deadshot and tiger and bane kinda like how she was recruiting deathstroke in Arkham origins
What about the Arkham Unhinged comics? From my memory they didn't do anything that contradicted the canon, and they expanded on Two-Face and Catwoman's battle for the microchip and how Joker and Penguin came to recruit their half of the Abramovici Twins
GP VIDEO LETS GOOOO (please stream this weekend you only stream on my work days😩)
for me personally origins to knight is canon even though the lore established can be shaky such as when Harley met Joker in asylum but in origins they met in blackgate or how Gordon aged 20 years even though it was 5 years between origins and asylum however the arkham universe is it's own batman universe where many top batman villains die such as Joker and Strange but is still a fantastic universe that has the same writer as the animated series definitely the best batman game universe
There was actually more like 7-8 years between origins and asylum. 🤓☝️
11:12 On the arkham city stories included in the game its mentioned Batman chased Harley & Joker while they escaped on boat and they ended up on arkham city!
DISCLAIMER
DO NOT take a shot everytime GP says "canon"!
Trust me you will die of liver failiure
Blackgate has to be canon because it took place after origins in which origins was canon
Suicide squad whilst currently considered canon I’d put money that with its massive failure it will be made non canon and retconned at some point
HE REMEMBERED TO PUT ME AT THE END (but u spelt my name wrong)
LOL I suck I’m sorry
Tbh i fully agree, some things make sense in things that aren't canon and really the only basis we have to go off of are the main games so i can't say i disagree with any of this
i was kinda hoping to see harley x poison ivy in one of the arkham games tbh.
I think Batman wondering if Barbara knows who he is might probably refer to his Joker toxin infection, which by Arkham VR we know was seriously troubling him.
I am willing to bet everything that Riddler's Gambit is canon and they just made an incredible blunder with Oracle not knowing Bruce's identity since she's known since she was Batgirl.
Another great video Paladin! I agree with practically all your points. I feel like franchises whose main medium are video games, those stories' canon is solid there. Then the comics and novels as well as other supplementary information is really up in the air and for each person to decide.
Great job and keep up the good work! 🙂
So this is kinda how the chronological order goes
Origins initiation dlc
Arkham origins
Cold Cold Heart DLC
Arkham origins blackgate
Arkham Shadow
Knight batgirl dlc
Knight Harley Quinn dlc
Arkham Assault
Road to Arkham
Arkham Asylum
Arkham City
Harley Quinns revenge
Knight Red Hood dlc
Arkham Knight
Knight Nightwing dlc
Knight Robin dlc
Knight catwoman dlc
Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League
You got it wrong on the knight harley quinn dlc it happens after city and before knight
I agree with all the points in the video and I do feel like certain select things from the comics should be Canon and if anything ever contradicts the games I just assumed the games are correct. But with the most respect in mind the end of the video felt like when you're trying to get 8000 word essay done
This is not the first time you've said Grundy is first seen in City, but there is still literally nothing to suggest that. Like literally nothing. Your evidence is the camera angle? What does that even mean lmao
Arkham shadow is canon and it is a sequel to origins so that makes origins canon and Arkham vr is canon as it was kind of confirmed and it makes sense.
Blud thinks Penguin having grey skin and eating raw fish whole is canon
23:10 let’s be honest that is not perfectly fine lmao
Why did bro upload this at 5 am
(Also for ssktjl i think it's fair to argue death of the author so it definitely isn't canon)
I cant believe bro forgot about Arkham Underworld and Arkham origins mobile
They don't really have a Story
@@ThePlagueDoctor1490 Arkham Underworld does have a story.
@darealwan6831
Oh didn't knew
In my opinion Batman Arkham Origins Blackgate COULD be canon if you just pretend it's Killer Croc and not Solomon Grundy
Thks for the wonderful vid man. I really read and bought some of the Arkham City comics and Arkham Knight Genesis comic. But I've never really understand what is considered canon to the Arkhamverse besides the mainline games but I watch this video, hopefully this might help clear up some inconsistencies with the timeline itself.
Bro when we beating origins so we can get back to knights challenge gang 😢
In my mind Knights and SSKTJL aren’t Canon, they’re just Elseworlds Story.
Take a shot everytime he says cannon 😂
Hey @GothamPaladin the part where you talk about the Arkham City comics, specifically where the Joker and Harley escape to Arkham City is consistent with the lore as an Arkham City story that you can unlock called “A Sick Plan” details the pairs escape from Arkham where they’re chased down by Batman who proceeds to gun down their boat whilst in the Bat-Boat. The story ends with them evading Batman’s signal light whilst realizing that they’d made it to the shore of Arkham City.
Gimme that shoutout next time gang 🗣️🔥
victor "zayz"
I love how announcing something as canon doesn’t change whether or not it’s fundamentally chronological. Fundamentals dictate canon, not labels.
The boat chase of Joker by Batman IS mentioned in the main game, it's an unlockable Arkham City Story. It's a direct, intentional tie-in.
The Riddler novel also says thst batman fought joker in a bank in arkham city (this happened in origins), and riddler says that Arkham City was his last encounter with Batman in Arkham Knight. I don't know for sure though, but i remember being really confused by that first one.
the main issue is, that those plot lines are massive/too important for batman not to mention them so i agree that the only one that is canon is the aa prequel comic because in the beggining of the game (when you just take control of batman for the first time) you can approach the guards and they will ask/comment about the "joker going after the mayor" incident, as for the movie im 50/50 on it being canon because i say again, it would be weird for batman not to recall he took on the ss to someone close to him, basically the events that happend are quite big for batman not to make some sort of recall on them or some of his ally's not to comment on them in the main 4 games.
*side note
but then again you can get a rare comment (right after she tells you where the rest of the doctors are) in which sarah says that she never thought batman was even real but in the prequel comic she got saved by him???
soooo im now like tf?????😭😭😭😭