But I thought Tree Kin were terrible
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2021
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Игры
It's a line of trees. They stand quite staunch. Spears are made from trees, therefore this is a staunch line of spears in a way.
Proto-spears. :P
Extra Thicc Spears
You know its an easy to use doomstack when legend actually decides to zoom in on the fighting
This is what the Lorax was trying to warn us about
I am the Lorax and I speak for the trees! You better start listening before they break your knees!
Trees are the strongest living things in the TW WH universe and its a fact. Try a doomrocket, hellstorm rocket battery or a hellcannon. Nothing can kill trees. (Trust me I've tried)
you got me in the first 99% not gonna lie
Dark elves are pretty good tho, with the AP
But is it stronger than the protecting Sigmar?
Yes, Yes..... nothing can kill trees......food food mighty rat..... prepare weapons team.....MUHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH YES YES YESSSSSSS
My lord what about the Luminark?
That's my Woodstack here. [Pasted from other comment] Well I somewhat understand Legends frustration with SoK. I picked it up only because HElfs were throwing it my way few times already and decided 'ah heck its just thirsting, what harm can it be' and forgot I can't unequip it afterwards. Which is a bummer since I wanted to test treekin more than Durthu. I asked him specifically not to use it in battle to prove the point that this stack can dominate with little help from heroes.
Also I usually spread them out a little bit wider that's why I use 2 Dryads with Resplendence.
that woodstack is a hard one, for sure
that works really well. Great job!
As long as it is not dominating.
You've made legend impressed, i would put it in CV if i were you. Gz
@@0786RICARDO i'm sorry my friend but if i reach turn 118 and i'm not dominating and killing everything in my path either im doing something wrong or the game im playing sucks... That's my take on it. And generally in ANY game, if im not dominating anything and everything in the END GAME then the same principle applies either i'm doing something wrong or the game sucks.
So who was rooting for this doomstack?
me, i enjoy going back to my roots playing as the woodelves
I see where this is branching off to and I don't like it
If the next person leaves it alone I would understand
That joke was really wooden...
Alright, you got a bark of laughter from me
Tree Kin were reworked with the WE update. They used to be just expensive chaf, but now they actually do damage just like other low entity count monsters.
That's awesome!
“Sit back here a little bit so their archers will just shoot a load of trees”
They’ll shoot loads of trees either way.
23:58 That's actually wrong. ALL Branchwraiths and Wood Elf mages have Arcane Conduit-like effect when they're in a forest. That trait is called Cluster of Radians and provides an Arcane Conduit-like effect regardless of the terrain.
@furriesfuckanimals weebsanimetrash wtf lol, you realise the irony of your own name right?
@furriesfuckanimals weebsanimetrash were you frozen in 2006 and recently unthawed? who the fuck says 'pr0nz' anymore?
I'm seriously leaning towards giving WE a chance. If they're such powerful spell caster, at least they ought to be fun. Guess you can roll with cheap stacks and rely on magic.
@@0786RICARDO One of the most CRITICAL things is the amber-research AND their "court jobs" ... and they can turn your campaign / armies from one style to another. You can boost the usual archery stuff and go the "shooty elveses" path or have units and/or heroes with "damage aura" ... or - in the case of Drycha - have CHEAP wild animals (basically cavalry) with 20% Physical Resistance to strike at the enemy's back. Some "court position" reduces the mana cost for Flock of Doom to 2 mana ... which is basically nothing ... and there are other such versions for other schools of magic.
tl;dr Give them a try, but dont play each of them the same way ... they are all considerably different. [Orion is the bland one.]
@@Muck006 I was planning on playing sisters
5:42 Skip to when Legend stops ranting about the sword of Kaine
also, I think that abducting captives does work on this stack but not the treeman stack as single entities, so it can be less prone to be grinded down in foreign territory.
You mainly use magic, and the fact that you can have probably the most reserves with woodelves to heal.
Yeah I'd value life magic on single entities much higher than captive replenishment
Army is missing a glade captain for dance of loec and campaign movement range (can also be used to melee snipe units on an eagle)
Edit: I also wanna mention that this doomstack being recruitable at t3 is the real strength of it. You can rush to t3 and then use it for a long time (theoretically all the way, but you are better off with treemen at some point).
Yea a slight error on the sender's part, once exhaustion sets in tree kin literally don't die if you remember to heal them once a minute because their resists and melee defense are so high.
Replacing the spellsinger with one would be better for sure, you lose an arcane conduit but you should have that on Durthu. Besides it's not like stacking winds is hard for them now anyway.
@@Arkanic Spell singer is there for the Shields of Thorns - to have a 100% uptime. Some treekin definitely can be replaced with a glade captain or two, but is not necessary.
glade captains are not needed, would not make any difference here.
@@Lost7one it would make the army stronger though. Not only in combat but also strategically.
2 branchwraiths on the other hand are a complete overkill. This army is far from optimized
I'm surprised you didn't make a "I've got wood" pun considering your relationship with manscaped
I read the title of this video in Legend's viewer voice
Honestly I think it's probably 10/10. The lower cost and faster recruit time on it make up for the Treeman difference in strength especially given how well they actually performed, tyrion was the only unit to kill any of them, and he's insane. If it hadn't had sword of Kaine, and we had durthu slap tyrion around it's highly unlikely we'd have lost any units, now granted it wasn't a super strong army we were fighting against, but, even in a stronger army, like say VS empire/dwarf gun heavy army, now all our units are much smaller than treemen (Why thorgrim 1man doomstack works better off mount), so it's harder to focus them down, and we can spread damage around better to regen better. And if we do lose any units they're much easier to replace than treemen, 1 turn rather than 3 means we can resupply on the move (same reason that dual wield shades are doomstack and greatswords are only A tier).
I agree other than Legend saying 10/10 is reserved for literally unkillable armies like a Pompous or Nurgles Foul Stench stacks. This is a 10/10 army but it can get killed, even if its super unlikely
@@KingfisherMC Does he define treemen stacks as a 10/10? Cause considering campaign benefits this is definitely on par with Treemen, just different utilisation of magic.
Wait you can have heroic victory with an auto resolve ? Didn't know, I should consider make more doom stack ...
Yeah, dwars with a bugman ranger stack can get it pretty easily against most enemies.
That tends to happen often if you have a lot of high level lords/heroes participate in battle. Or those that have a massive autoresolve bonuses (e.g. Dwarven LLs). Got quite a few heroic victories by having Thorek solo autoresolve a basic vampire revolt upon its spawn.
@@Debilinside I mostly have played the Empire in campaign, so dwarf it will be thx, i take notes !
"This doomstack sucks".
Me every time I try to use tomb scorpions as Tomb Kings.
This one looks fun.
I’m currently doing a sisters campaign on vortex. It’s actually quite a bit of fun.
I’ve been finding that any of the lords that don’t have the vortex objective to have really fun campaigns.
I always enjoy seeing doomstacks that surprise you. Great vid.
Cool video idea would be the hardest doomstacks to do well with. Keep up the great videos.
I am the Lorax and I speak for the trees. The trees say; 'GTFO pointy ear Bois'.
Glad you're actually getting over your biases, Legend.
Treemen are basically giants but better in every possible way. Treekin, under the right circumstances, are freakin linebackers. This stack right here is like the forgotten lovechild between trolls and ironbreakers. If properly protected they will nearly never die, and will dish out plenty in return regardless of offensive magical support.
I feel like this is probably SLIGHTLY (very slightly) better than a treeman doomstack for Durthu, since it's cheaper and more easily replaceable.
It's almost a 10/10 but it's dependence on forests definitely costs it that 0.5, so I agree wholeheartedly with your score.
" forgotten lovechild between trolls and ironbreakers", now THAT'S a grudging...
It is better than a treeman doomstack. There's no need to spam a unit twice the upkeep when there's no enemy strong enough to justify it, especially with hardcapped WE economy.
@@ggleplussuxx4787 Yup - and they can get 10% ward save on all treeman lords, so you'll be sitting at 72% physical resistance and 90% missile resist just by spamming shield of thorns/Pann's Pelt.
even so you can heal tree man after battle to nearly full health back, you can opt after battle to reenforce your troops with tree kins. Tree mans wont benefit from this option.
Haha like I said in one of your other videos treekin are amazing! Good job 👌
Autoresolve giving heroic victory is kinda strange
Yeah I've never seen that before
I've seen it before a few times, most recently with Eltharion with mostly archers against some dark elves with several monsters and other things without much armor. If your units are relatively inexpensive/low tier but very well suited to destroying the army you're fighting (at least as recognized by the autoresolve) and if that army is a lot higher tier or more numerous, it can happen. I still ended up fighting the battle manually because auto was going to kill two of my archers. Having obscenely buffed tree kin sounds like a similar situation of an army punching well above its weight class.
It is weird, as i figured autoresolve would always give its approximated result, i thought you had to earn a heroic victory by DEFYING autoresolve against the odds? Huh.
@@jfgresham This tracks. I find autoresolve tends to weight high defense high HP units (so monsters , most often) really high in autoresolve results, so no surprise to see a tree doomstack rolling.
What i don't understand is why things like skaven assassin heroes get totally dunked on by the same system... Sneakiest-quiet is also most suicidal-reckless yes-yes? :-S
@@Musabre Oh how I love Assassin stacks :D they melt literally any isolated unit/monster/hero so damn quick.
Flock of Doom is still pretty good at 5 winds of magic cost and it only gets better from there. If you were low on magic, it would actually be better than Dweller's below in the treeman doomstack. But I suppose that's a non-issue issue since a good boy should be stocking those knowledge wizards.
good for if your having terrible rng with the traits though, or until you have enough of them.
How about half the army tree kin and half treeman? The tree kin can work as "meat shields" for the treeman so they don't get surrounded by melee units. Treekin are also slightly more resistant, with less health. So they need less winds of magic to reach max health.
That was a great battle. How easy is that army to use!? WE are my favourite faction and need some love and it's good to see another capable doomstack. Thanks Legend
Ahhh he finally figured it out. Defensive tree kin are pretty decent
Better title "the high elves go into the forest to get wood"...
You really dont need to do fullstack armies as woodelves. 1 Beast or Life magic treeman lord, 3 treeman, 1 glade captain, 1 murder of spites branchwraith of life or beast magic, 1 life spellsinger. 7 unit armies are performing pretty well while having alright economy.
Have you heard of supply lines?
@@precious0_0 LOL, if there is no supply lines, you can spamm all the 20 unit army you like.
I am talking about legendary difficulty. having a 20 unit army suffer from % 90 supply line is crippled economy, while having 7 - 8 unit army same upkeep penalty, you will still have way more income.
If the whole army is 4 times cheaper, you can still afford many more than you would've otherwise done. Having full armies is overkill when you can wreck any challenge with tiny armies of beefed up lords and heroes. You basically play DnD in a Total war. It also creates the benefit of AI underestimating your strength and throwing stacks piecemeal during their turn.
And it's not just with wood elves. Some factions do it worse. Some, like WE and HE, seem to be designed for this. Who needs full stacks if a caster can get thousands of kills for a fraction of a cost? Why even recruit the rest of the army?
@@edyburkay The point is you'll never get to -90% as WE if you recruit 20 stack armies. Strong but few armies vs weak but many armies. A 7 stack army with mostly strong heroes will do good against average armies, but it won't stand a chance against some of the nastier things the AI will occasionally throw at you. Likewise nothing is more annoying as the WE than feeling like you never have the armies to be everywhere you need them. Strategy seems alright, just a different playstyle. At the end of the day if it's working for you in legendary, it's an effective strat.
@@azeon562 But you're just overkilling at 20 units - 7 to 10 beefy units can take on practically any situation at a fraction of the cost of full armies. It's a matter of what army would you realistically need to defeat MOST scenarios - as that will provide you major boons on a campaign scale. Being able to field 3 armies more, that still can defeat most stacks (even 2 or 3 at a time) is very advantageous to the overall campaign - even if there's a small chance to lose a battle. Especially on Wood Elves who have 0 commitment to their outposts, you don't lose anything when you lose an outpost, and you can make emergency armies in 1 turn as you have infinite global recruiment slots.
That little explanation in the beginning of why Sword of Khaine is bad for Wood Elves, as brief as it was, gave me enough advice and encouragement to keep playing my wood elf campaign. I thought I was doing something wrong because you usually scoff at lowering upkeep cost but I had no choice with the elves and now I'm happy I made the correct choice. Also Hawk Rider Doomstack is busted.
Legend is starting to create a reality, in which doom stacks are important to people.
How do you build that doomstack?
Okoii tree kin doomstack video
Flock of doom feels like dwellers above
Are there any doomstack vs doomstack videos!?
A tree that does flaming attacks... well well
Turns out they are treerific.
Who is going to clean up all these dead elves off my hill. I'm not doing it.
Durthu probably.
Also why the hell is there always Alastar the White Lion in those doomstacks/disasters with high elves?
He is a failure so he is drawn towards the ass end of an ass whooping.
Tree kin are surprisingly good. Like holy hell they are incredibly defensive. Usually I use them as a front line while I use deep wood scouts and other ranged units pick away the rest.
24:15 but this have 40m range. 2 to get all units?
It's enough if you stack them like legend did. I usually spread them a bit wider. With this tight formation the debuff Trait would be better.
In game 3 this may become stronger than the treeman doom stack with the change to how single entities fight at lower health
Oh, c'mon, man. It's 10/10. It's cheap, easy to replenish and beatng up everytning. What more could you possibly want?
It would be 10/10 once he replaces the Branchwraith it Murder of Sprite trait, a mortis engine on that thing would have made beating that fight even faster.
I love Taurox one-man-doomstack, easy enough for me^^
You pick up the sword of khaine when it's time for your campaign to fuck and you're not scared of the AI anymore. Heck diplomatic penalties.
I agree, the Banner of Eternal Flame shouldn't have been present in battle against the High Elves whom only resist fire than are vulnerable to it. I agree with an other user's suggestion to put a Glade Captain in the army for Dance of Loec for melee Defense is a must for Wood Elf melee armies. An other user suggested the Forest Spirit Spite "Annoyance of Netlings" debuffing enemy melee combat. "Murder of Spites" is a clear choice to clear regiments over time but might i reccommend "Muster of Malevolents". i suggest it less so for its damage and more so for it's vigor debuff, making characters easier to kill when they enter melee..
same doomstack I used last campaign, but without the sword of kaine
Does apotheosis not resurrect treekin?
It's hard to get big armies to fight as woodelves without sword of khane
What's interesting is that the idea of doomstack to me means an army you don't have to manage at all. You can just A-Move and go get a sandvich.
Doomstack in total war is more just an army that can handle any situation you'll encounter with the AI, not an AFK army. Very few armies are afk worthy in legendary difficulty. Can it beat strong armies 2-4v1? Can it siege in 1 turn? Is it immune to ambush fights? Can it deal with a monster spam army? If yes to most situations, then you've got a doomstack on your hands.
While it's fun to rate doomstacks, technically there's a point where better doesn't really matter anymore. Can you make a stronger army than this treekin stack? Sure, but as it is this army can beat anything the AI throws at it already.
Effectively fireproof even with regen lol
where is my skyrim disaster dungeon
MARCH OF THE ENTS
1:17 I prefer the term "strategically impaired"
Wouldn't this be much cheaper than treemen?
Instructions unclear: picked up the Sword of Khain :P
I always thought Tree Kin where good they have great staying power
>tree-kin
*Janci screeches autistically in joy*
The SoK rant at the beginning was a bit overkill :/
Janci's juggernauts
Goddamnit MajorKill
I want to see the same fight on a desert map :)
it might be the best doomstack against skaven multiple armies I think
The sword of daith is already a good wep for durthu
I almost want to say they'd be better for earth bloods since there's more entities
you would think as a total war game that they would have more units with fire arrows
Morning wood be like:
Radiant trait provides greater arcane conduit everywhere, best trait for wood elves
Nor really Its more of a mini arcane conduit in the forest
@@chongching6207 Cluster of Radiants is always active but it's quite a small effect, Blessing of the Ancients is the one that's active in trees.
For a tree stack of any shade, using a Resplendance of Luminescants/Annoyants of Netlings pair is best though.
@@AshenVictor what does annoyants do? Can't remember
@@Ax_Dj0 It's the one that gives the enemy -5MA/-10%WS
@@AshenVictor thanks
I'm preparing a skaven slaves doomstack. They die to almost everything. Pretty impressive. XD
Thanks for the video
Lumberjack Tyrion
Even Legend change his mind about various things - so u can too?)
Now for the ultimate doomstack: all Zoats
Working on it but it's weak, since there is not many skills or traits to boost them.
@@gauthel They're also insanely expensive - aren't they more costly then dragons? And their magic abilities are kind of pointless either way. D:
Maybe with a glamourweaver spellsinger, and spam apotheosis for 1 WoM to get 20% ward save on them?
@@TheNightkunai yeah if I recall correctly Great Stags actually make better doomstacks than Zoats. Which is a shame since I like the turtle bois.
@@gauthel Yeah it's pretty fun to combine stags with sisters of Thorn, as the shield of thorns synergises nicely with their already high resistance, and sisters of thorn are good at taking out lords and SEM's.
Though it is insanely micro intensive to keep them alive :I
@@TheNightkunai true. But also insanely fun since they can plow through weaker infantry so easily.
"pan"alise?
Treekin insta A tier doomstack with this video. Kappa
Last time I was this early was last time I was this early
lmao
first time I'm this early
Makes sense
sword of kain... thats what you need to be cool i guess.
This video has the WRONG TITLE ... the correct one is:
*Sword of Khaine - THE RANT* ... which is sadly necessary because people DO NOT THINK FOR THEMSELVES!
I Do like treekin, I don't like too much doomstacks so my armies often are composed of a treekin frontline and some waywatchers
TeamTrees
Tree Kins are tanky with high weapon strenght, but they lack in melee attack. Aside from buffing their defensive stats (put a Glade Captain with aoe MD aura in there!), buffing their melee attack can make this stack a lot better. However, none of the lores of magic available to wood elves feature an AoE MA buff...but Lore of Beasts has an AoE MD debuff, which is functionally the same as giving your units MA. So level Durthu's magic so he can spam Curse of Arnheir to make your Tree Kin slap more.
Oh the treekin had MA boosted very fine (60+ on lv7 and up) Would be a bit higher if I used branchwraiths small buff instead of big one since I gave Durthu the same one and they don't stack.
You can get +20 MA with 2 branchwraiths, so their melee attack is fine. Curse of Arnheir is pretty expensive, and would possibly get in the way of permanent shield of Thorns upkeep.
Wood Elves rely on post-battle loot, and high-elves can be befriended with the sword of khaine through tech.
Public order in the mid-late game is a non-issue. Every outpost provides PO to their regions - spellsingers (recruited at like level 12) can easily defeat rebel armies alone, and your tree settlements will usually hover around 0 in the mid-late game without armies around.
Sword of Khaine also allows you to just run a lord and nothing else in the army - as even the normal lords can function as one man doomstacks (especially on the herald of Ariel).
The upkeep cost is the biggest malus, but you can save money in the mid game with the sword due to not having to run 20/20 stacks - and you'll make absolutely butt-loads of money of sacking, which the only thing you'll be able to spend it on is armies. Usually - emergency armies will come out even if the threat they're fighting has enough force in it.
Sword of khaine is fun to use - and the negatives are relatively minor for Wood Elves, so it's really a playstyle choice in their case - not a strict negative it is for a lot of other order factions.
EDIT: in blob fights monstrous infantry don't get much worse when losing entities - your blob is limited by the size of your buffs, so you're at max entities fighting whilst more than half are just standing around.
Double EDIT: 2 life mages means permanent upkeep on shield of thorns - the main thing making these stacks near invincible.
Normally you would probably take the +25% magic resistance from Forge of Daith too - as that usually is your only real weakness, but it's pretty rare to fight a lot of high damage magic attacks.
But Legend, what if I play TITW as wood elves?
22:45 anti luthor harkon trait
Why not dry has faction??? Treemen get omega boosted in drycha's army
Point of this doomstack was to create something with which you can pretty much go and make yourself a coffee during battle. This is thanks to regen for all wooden units that only Treesinger in Heralds of Ariel have.
How about in the desert against a dino army, that is not that rare :)
@5:40 Battle starts
556 kills ? HOW TF ?
I think keeping the flame banner on was your mistake legend. Banners can be activated and inactivated on a per battle basis.
Tree kin were always good units
Speed
still waiting for lizardmen unit tier list
I am slowly getting confused with these tests like "I am here to test Tree Kin that's why I won't use Dwellers Below". People create doomstacks which are meant first of all to be a good team (Legend's words btw). Why refusing using something if it's a part of DS?
UPD: This stack misses Glade Captain - for movement range and MD AoE buff
Dweller's below is explicitly not part of the doomstack though. Sure it might be faster - but you need to upkeep magic to heal & have 100% uptime on shield of thorns. The Treekin deal enough damage by themselves - they need defensive support, not offensive support.
Legend tends to use magic more offensively a lot of the time, due to it being much easier to cheese battles that way - but when your army is build around dealing damage and needs the defensive support, you'll see him switch to defensive magic too.
@@TheNightkunai >they need defensive support, not offensive support
This is arguable but ok. He had enough magic for everything, also while casting Dwellers below Ariel would trigger her passive +10% phisical resist mapwide
Anyway for example in Horned Ones doomstack video Legend actually asked the guy to remove Saurus Scar veterans from the DS (the sender mentioned ti in comments) and then Legend in the video said "well, this doomstack is not great against monsters". Of course it's not great against monsters if Legend asked to remove anti-monster heroes. Doesn't make sense to me TBH
@@alexeyalexandrov7583 That request for the horned ones video was a little odd, ngl. Doomstacks are often stronger when they are at least a little mixed arms, mostly through heroes and such.
The army the treekin were fighting wasn't too hard - so even sitting idle would probably resulted in a close/decisive victory. With armies like this you want to keep up Shield of Thorns at all times - and keep your models topped off so they don't die to Single Entities. Ariel should just be spamming heals & shield of thorns, alternating the shield of thorns with the other life wizard.
When fighting 3-4 strong armies you'll start running low on WoM regen, so you really can't be wasting it on damage in the later half of the fight.
Why would you take off points for picking up the SOK I thought this was rating your doomstack, not your campaign
Because then every lord is a doomstack...
@@donkarnage6986 exept if you look at the campaign, he most likely has it to keep it from the high elves. as they tend to spam send it against you, and it gets annoying.
@@psychodoctor5370 Which is a campaign issue, but this is rating a doomstack and he doesn't want to rate doomstacks with SOK because everything becomes a doomstack.
@@khinzaw77 that's not the reason he gave, he said that the SOK hurts the wood elves campaign so much that he will always take off points if you you have it. when in this case it's helping the wood elves campaign by keeping it away from the high elves.
@@psychodoctor5370 He said that specifically _after_ saying that a lot of viewers and he himself are sick of seeing doomstacks with the SOK.
Next series : SFO doomstacks ;)
It seems to me that they were as terrible as dawn.
prefered the old casting system, so boring to have to come back to your caracter for every ability