I got an XL 5 Head and I can’t really say that it is worth the money yet. I am not disappointed that I bought one but I can’t say that it is an incredible bang-for-buck machine. However, if the support is as good as it was for my first Prusa Printer (Mk2) then it will eventually become and incredible printer.
Hardware wise the XL has much more potential and with Prusa you just know that they keep bringing out new firmware and slicer-tweaks for several years. The build quality of Prusa printers is good enough to last alt least five years, even with near continu running. Don't know if printers of other brands will be capable of that.
I have my XL for two weeks now. I changed the nozzels for Bondtech CHT's. The printer came with the new alpha firmware installed. I did not have any stringing with PLA and very little with PETG. As the Bondtech CHT nozzels are capable of melting the plastic faster, I've set the printspeeds about 15% faster. The Bondtech CHT nozzels not only melt the filament faster, the have less ozing too.
Interesting, I have a Bondtech CHT on my FLSun V400 but I didn't consider them for my XL. Did you use the prusa "nozzle adapter" and regular Bondtech CHT nozzles, or is there something I am unaware of?
I think PRUSA released the XL before it was ready, with that said, they have years off goodwill they have built with the community and I think they will make it right.
Excelent review as always, but I would love to see a video of the XL making the most of those toolheads. By this, I mean: * Printing with different nozzles, a large one for infill and a small one for perimeters and details. * Printing with different filaments... solubles / regular ones. * Combining rigid filaments with TPU to achieve more complex objects.
Hey - I did all three with my XL 2 Toolhead: Printing with different nozzles is super hard and not really supported at the moment. This only works if you use on nozzle only for supports for example. Printing Different Filaments works great. For example PETG Models with PLA supports works amazing. I printed handles for Pushups for my wife since she has problems with her hands. I used a model from turntables and put a cylinder of TPU around it in Prusa Slicer. Printed great and works great. No Problem at all. The only thing I found out is that PETG sticks really well to TPU, so PETG supports for TPU will result in a very hard challenge afterwards - I needed an hour to get the supports of semi cleanly.
@@zebarzebra wow nice. Yes, I saw a video from ModBot (I think?) that tested supports using different materials, and he got pretty good results. Glad to hear that it works great with the XL.
One thing to note about speed is that prusa actually cares about part functionality and strength. Its easy to critisize speed if you are making prototypes all the time and dont care about rigitity and the like. But prusa has experience with ACTUAL manufacturing - every single printer they have ever made is partially printed. They actually take the time to make strength checks and slow down the printer for strength and toughness purposes instead of pumping out crappy plastic garbage at the maximum speed.
u could, and easily, slow down ur printer on all machines. u are just fanboying for prusa, cause bambu can print much faster than their default settings which as u said are better but prusa can not.
Very fair point. There's a lot of marketing claims that are selling printers on claims, rather than like-for-like speed comparison of quality- and strength-matched printed parts. Thinking about it, that's a great idea for YGK3D reviews in future: create some standard designs and tests, and review the speed-quality-strength trade-offs and relative strengths of different manufacturers. Maybe choose a range of parts to print, like functional load-bearing parts, different materials, detailed aesthetic prints, etc.
Also worth noting, the move to the prime tower before lowering Z during a tool change happens on the pre sliced benchy they provided but not if you slice prints yourself. I'm on alpha firmware and PS 2.7 and the behavior is still the same as it was.
your XL alpaca was 162g, and 142g for your X1 alpaca. the 20g isn't going to make up all of the time difference, but when you mix in the speedy toolhead changes, I think it starts to show its advantages. especially for people that sell a lot of prints, through much less wasted material. i think a video that people want to see is a large multi color print where we can really see the benefits of the XL. the XL wasn't built with speed as the primary feature, so doing a test that does test its strengths would be cool. like a side by side Timelapse of a large multi-color print on both printers
@@riba2233 according to whom? it can do a 15 minute benchy. but that's not why you'd buy an XL. do a 4 color bench and compare the speed. the XL will print several benchies in the same time as the X1 prints one. even the A1 mini beats the X1's at this due to a slightly faster AMS, but the XL does it with virtually no downtime for color switches and wastes nearly no plastic either. i'm saying this as the owner of an A1 mini and two X1 carbons AMS combos, and a long time prusa fan
@@riba2233 yeah i mean for single color, the XL doesn't push as hard, but the toolchanger adds a lot of mass to the head, so i think that's the trade off for the fast and efficient switching. i love prusa but it's hard to justify the price of the XL, even if they get it to a point where it's turn-key
@@ame7165 true, I get that it is a special product and there is nothing really like it (outside for some custom stuff) but it is definitely too expensive.
I know they've said that. But they also said it was "vital", yet are living without it in the alpha and made no mention of when it would start to be used.
@@ygk3d Yea they have a weird stance on the whole accelerometer thing, also with not putting it on the mk4. But saying it isn't there is very misleading imo.
@@ren8 I didn't say it wasn't there, just that I couldn't find it. I found it strange that they made no mention of it in the blog, even if it wasn't being used right now.
So I had a late pre-order - I've had mine a few months. The nice thing is...how much has been ironed out. I don't worry that much about speed so I can't speak to that - but I can say, anecdotally, that my xl runs like a champ. It. Just. Works. I've been running it nearly non-stop. The 6.x firmware has all but totally remove vibration. The bottom line is this machine has a lot of advanced tech in it - and fully using it all correctly is taking some time to get right. But it's definitely moving forward. No regrets here.
Thank god I canceled my order 2 years ago; I would be pissed that I would have received a printer that was not fully baked after 2 years of waiting. And see, they still need to work out a good portion of the issues even though they said delays were to provide better quality. And to add input shaping and pressure advance, which has been around for years. By the time this is a refined printer, they will be 3 years behind technology. Prusa has lost its way.
Can you try some multicolour/filament prints on the XL (not just benchy), and see the differences in quality and time between the XL and the Bambu X1C? As you said, the biggest thing the XL has is the lightning fast tool changes, so I would love to see that be explored a bit more. In what scenarios is the XL's tool changing superior in time AND quality, and in what scenarios is the Bambu set up better. I saw in a different channel a guy with a 2 head XL, and he's doing TPU inside another material (forget if it was PLA or PETG), in order to make pressable buttons. Now that's not even possible in the AMS I think since it doesn't officially support TPU. What about using PETG as support for PLA, does that set up work well? Do the supports leave a nicer surface than normal same material supports on the XL? I know I can do that on the AMS, but it is just so slow with the filament swap, and since it is different material, you can't reduce the poop amount. Anyway, those are just some ideas to showcase what the XL might be better at.
The XL head change is leagues faster than an X1 or P1 printer. (10-15 seconds vs 90 seconds on average) BUT...the quality from several youtubers have shown poorer print quality. so you can save a bunch of time depending on the print but may have an inferior model at the end. 6:19
@@ashleys3dprintshop Yes I have seen some poor results with the XL, but I always wonder if those were maybe printed too hot, or maybe it's because of the default .6 nozzle? It seems like the XL has potential. Where as Bambu are much more turn key. So if you wanna hack at the Prusa, maybe it'll be able to print nicely. But I do wish either Bambu made a tool changer, or Prusa makes a smaller tool changer, that'd be perfect. I don't really need the giant print volume. But I do want multi-material/color prints.
@@shenqiangshou Re: "but I always wonder if those were maybe printed too hot, or maybe it's because of the default .6 nozzle", Prusa obviously believes the 0.6mm nozzle was part of the problem, as they have switched to 0.4 for further XL sales. But there is a lot more to the problem. Prusa believed they could prevent the stringing and color runs without a head-cleaner. And so far they are wrong. There are some community mods that add a small brass wire brush, and they drag the tool head across that when parking. This is the real solution, because one of the biggest problems is filament oozing out a bit on parking, then later getting dragged back into the print where that color isn't supposed to go. Physics is against Prusa on this until they decide to add a nozzle cleaning step which requires a minor hardware mod (for the cleaning brush).
I'm still thinking about getting an XL. Im watching channels like yours to see how the issues are fixed. I think if I did get one I'd put 0.4mm nozzles on from the beginning. I think Prusa should provide this option when you order the XL without having to order the 0.4mm nozzles separately.
I hope the Prusa XL improves fast from here on, at least fast enough to remain relevant when more tool changers come to the market over the next few years. I was seriously thinking about an XL, and contemplating a twin tool head version that I could later upgrade to five. I love the approach Prusa have to upgrades over time, and to continuous product improvement. I think that's really the key advantage of a Prusa over other manufacturers. I'd buy a Mark 4 now, because it's been sorted and just works and has beautiful quality, but its build area is not large enough for what I need. But the XL is not yet at that point of reaching its performance potential. I have to say, I so want to support Prusa and see the XL succeed. They deserve it for their investment in open source, Prusa slicer, and their dedication to quality and innovation. But their product development speed is just not up there at the level people are starting to expect after Bambu Labs arrived on the scene. I watched this video after just having watched CNC Kitchen's interview of the Bambu Labs CEO, and he teased that the next generation 'X2' printers would be when they would launch a larger sized printer, but they wanted to wait until the printer was not only 'the same but larger' but had moved the product on to the next step... which makes me wonder if that "next step" will include tool changers... and whether by the time Prusa's XL is fully sorted, Bambu will have launched a tool changer XL competitor that's faster, cheaper, with fully sorted Prusa slicer derivative 'Bambu Multimaterial Slicer'? But the price point for two tool heads, when the machine isn't fully functioning after two years, has made me think twice. I'm currently thinking of getting a Qidi X Max 3 instead as a stop-gap printer, and waiting for a year or so to see what happens with the XL and whether any better alternatives arrive. I'm sure I can't be alone in taking this approach, given the Qidi and now SOVOL SV08 price points are so competitive. My worry for Prusa is that they just can't compete on price without moving to a mass production model like Bambu. I hope they find a way to accelerate their development work, because I would happily buy Prusa over alternatives if only their product development was faster and their launch products did what the marketing claims.
Prusa default input slicer profiles are extremely conservative. All you have to do is modify some settings and then your print will finish just as fast as bambu lab. The Prusa XL/Mk4 with input shaping is just as fast as anything bambu lab when using apples to apples settings. I did an exact comparison the other day and the MK4 finishes exactly one min faster than the X1C using same settings. Im sick of people doing "prusa vs bambu lab" speed comparisons...when they don't even try to match slicer settings.
I think there’s merit in comparing the “factory” settings. Sure, you can crank up the speeds, but it should be the manufacturer’s prerogative to supply the fastest possible profile while maintaining quality. Of course you have to match layer height, perimeters, infill, etc. to make it a fair comparison.
@@ygk3d Prusa has stated multiple times that they're not in the speed game. It's not their end goal. It's why their MK4/XL/mini all have pretty conservative IS speeds by default. They favor quality, strength and reliability over speed. They even called it all "marketing bullshit", which it is. If you want speed, just turn up the settings.
I was in the pre order list for this printer. Then I saw Taylor’s video on the Troodon 2.0. Bought a 2.0, installed klipper on it and printed tons of stuff at 200mm sec in ABS to my delight. Cancelled my Xl order. Looking at these videos, it appears Taylor saved me a bunch of money and headache. I’m glad I stuck with the Troodon. I liked my previous Průša printers, love the ecosystem and helpful users. Bambu users turned me away from that printer for sure. Comparing this XL to a Bambu is wrong. The size of the printer really has a bearing on the speed. Gantry weight of the little Bambu is so much less than the much bigger XL. It’s like comparing Bambu speed to a Voron 0.1. But I get why it’s done, Bambu for some reason is perceived as the competition to the XL and Voron just never gets mentioned. Maybe because the comparison is for printers you pull out of the box and print with no manufacturing or little assembly involved. Then the Troodon 2.0 gets ignored in that argument being a fully assembled Voron with injection molded and metal parts. Either way, thanks to Taylor for putting me onto the Troodon 2.0, putting the time into the klipper printer.cfg, and therefore avoiding an XL purchase. And the Bambu community thank you for making me avoid you. I have zero doubt that Josef and his team will sort this out. However, it would be nice if it was shipped working well.
The XL doesn't need to be as fast as a Bambu for single color. My reason for wanting an XL is for multi color prints, which take forever on my Bambu X1C
This. That's the niche of this machine. For single material or materials 6-16, the bambu is just better (6-16 only because this only has 5 print heads)
Also if some1 like to print multiple different material types, lets say tpu and PC, bambu can’t do that, XL can. So XL opens a lot of new oportunities.
@@Bebamyotamaki bambu can and does it, support materials that are different but also complete different filaments. It's up to the user, if the chosen plastics bound is another question.
@@Bebamyotamaki it seems you are a fan boy that never even looked further then prusa and have some wrong Idea what other printers can't or can do. Just because prusa printer can do something doesn't make it the standard.. the printer firmware and it's options are hopelessly outdated. One could never hook up a adxl for input calibration, you just get some values for some slow printing and that's it. It's not really input shaping as it's not dynamic.
to me it just proves how far prusa had their head in the sand for so many years riding off the reputation of being first and reliable, now they are starting to actually get some competition in reliable fast machines and they need to improve their speeds its just showing how much they are reacting and figuring it out and pushing stuff before its ready, just like they and prusa fans have critisized every other manufactuer for over the years with their heads up their a holes, you would think that prusa of all companies would be the ones to release a polished well tuned product that works and is reliable, but no instead they rush and push out crap before its ready to try to avoid looking bad by not having a competative printer on paper, they tarnish their reputation by instead having a printer that looks competitive on paper but in reality is a total s show, again just like every prusa fan has critisized every other manufacturer for all these years
@YGK3D I would be great to get an update video on your Prusa XL with the .4 nozzle and all of the firmware updates. Would be interesting see what your thoughts on the current print quality.
I have the 2 tool version. I’ve been running nonstop for weeks now and tried the input shaping alpha for a couple days before switching back. I did see a significant time reduction in some prints, but I had issues with the GUI, errors during print starts, print pauses due to false errors and a couple long prints error out past the 90% point. That last one alone was enough for me to go back to the stable version, but I’m looking forward to the official update and the new features.
The XL with multicolor with its input shaping won't show its advantage doing a small benchy. Look at Joel Tellings recent post with the massive Clockspring3d multicolor print. But looking forward to the update to deal w stringing.
Honestly - Prusa is facing an uphill battle. It used to be that you sat through their backorders because you knew what you were getting at the end would be better than the competition. Now, they're charging a premium and making people wait for devices that perform less well than things that cost less than they do. They've been left somewhat behind. A friend of mine was one of the Prusa faithful. I've been telling him to get on the core-xy train for a long time, but as he produces items for sale he wanted to stay with Prusa as he trusted them. After getting backordered for over three months he gave up and bought an X1C and not looked back. I believe his Prusa mk IIIs are all being sold off relatively cheaply or repurposed into other things. I suspect the best way forward for them would be to concentrate on larger format / industrial printers and to more or less completely de-emphasise their consumer machines similar to Ultimaker.
And that would only shoot them in the foot honestly. Given their seeming dedication to the hobbyist and DIYer, abandoning them in favor of industry would look terrible on them. Truthfully, Prusa needed to hold off on their MkIV release and opt to add in some of the features they are releasing now with the release of the machines. The lack of accelerometer on the MkIII despite there being Voron's that have them, the struggle to get input shaping functioning well, the lack of other software features just screams rushed and half baked. If they held out and released the machines in a better state, Prusa would be facing such an uphill battle.
@@TBonerism I have gone Voron myself and don't think I'm every going to buy a commercial printer again. I've got CAN, input shaping, accelerometer and my board can support 48v motors. Only thing that they really lose against the commercial offerings at the moment is the AMS. ERCF looks overcomplicated enough that I've not even considered it. Seems like a lot of work for a system that will break down every ten minutes. But that said - if I was running a print farm or small manufactory I'd have to be insane to put the work into the number of Vorons you'd need, which is where the "just work" guys come in. That used to be Prusa, but they've been dethroned by Bambu for everyone who isn't already in the Prusa ecosystem. Prusa have basically put themselves outside of both the "I need twenty printers" and the enthusiasts markets due to selling an inferior product at a higher price that you have to wait for.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that sticking with Marlin is so that they can essentially dominate the codebase and steer it in a Prusa-friendly direction. I think with the number of companies and open source projects that now use Klipper that would be a big struggle.
The print speed for multicolor prints for the Prusa XL can be several times shorter due to the amount of color purging needed. Its really quite drastic a 16 hour multicolor print on a Bambu can take 5 hours on the XL, thats where the XL shines along with the bigger print bed, so print speed with single coloris not the most important factor although Prusa does lag behind with regarss to print quality and speed...Surely bambu is working on something similar. That will be really dangerous for Prusa.
In regard to the stringing, how about doing some oozing tests with 2 little cones, finding a temperature at which there is no oozing on the filament in question. This might require turning down the fans, in order to maintain good layer adhesion, but it should also remove a large portion of the stringing.
I'm using 2 small cones, about 7mm x 15mm and 4cm apart of each other. A quick way to find the filament temperature, that provides optimal visual print quality.
I'm returning mine due to just generally bad prints and often skipping/underextruding layers on tall prints. Give it a year until it seems a more finished product.
@@redkingrauri3769 more people have this, prusa isn't what it used to be. Only fan boys go spend 2500 for something that underperforms but has the prusa brand on it. Just buy a X1 with ams and a voron then you still have money left for filament and your still cheaper that the xl with toolheads and low speeds.
@@redkingrauri3769Sorry to hear that, sounds like a big let-down. Though, for potential future buyers like myself, not so bad considering what looks to be great potential. What are your 2 biggest annoyances and 2 things you really like about it?
@@floodo1 Biggest likes: Prints were flawless on overhangs Nextruder eliminating the need for Z-offset was very welcome. Annoyances: Tall prints (like 13cm+) always had a strange underextrusion that made them brittle and break Later on could not get a good first layer to save my life resulting in every print peeling up even using gcode and filament that had worked well on the same print.
Facts, Prusa's cost of entry is just too high. $800 for a Mk4 kit as a basic klipper printer is far too much with the competition being as steep as it is now.
You should do a video on the dangers of dealing with Bambu from China vs European printers like Prusa. You do sound like you have a like for the Bambi printers and I hope you talk about their activities trying to do things with the Printables site.
Yes, I know. Thoughts on the Prusa response to Bambu over the activities at Printables? @@chaosengine3772 Scary thing is while you can run lan only, you shouldn't have to.
@@chaosengine3772also danger of feeding a country that has no regard for patent, open source, or stealing all the intellectual property they can. That is also a danger.
@@Shadrackc Nearly every part that makes up a Prusa is sourced eventually from guess where? Greedy corporations and governments made China what it is today. Bang your drum much harder, no one will hear you.
The more I see about the new Prusa printers, the happier I am that I opted to go with a bambu lab printer. Smaller printers not shipping with input shaping, the input shaping that gets implemented later is default values and doesn't get changed per machine (which could be important through the life span of the machine), prusa seemingly not being fully transparent with implementation of input shaping on the XL, and them seemingly not shipping finished products. Like, most of these "new" features all seem like they should have been implemented AT LAUNCH. These machines feel like anyone that buys them has seemingly been enrolled in a large scale beta testing platform without their knowledge and at the cost of Prusa machines, that is simply unacceptable.
The Bambu lab CEO has already said that their XL release will be a next gen printer so you can assume it will be a larger X1C with multi-tool support and be no more expensive than the Prusa XL. IMO, these problems you've had and the lack of features are kinda unacceptable in an expensive printer. Prusa has had too little competition and have been resting on their laurels for way too long so have to play catch up, and it doesn't seem to be going well.
This is an impressive show for the XL considering the size difference to the x1c. A larger printer will never be able to out-speed a smaller one. I.e. The banbu can't beat a voron zero.
Given that Prusa is no longer constrained by an 8bit system, I wouldn't be surprised if they were working on a Klipper FW version for the XL, Mini, & MK4. At least I would hope that they would be working on it if they want to stay competitive. Just got my email for the XL5H today. Looking forward to seeing what it's capable of.
@@Tremoneck I did not know that. I was under the impression that Klipper would work on any ARM, AVR, or PRU processor regardless of which actual core is used, but you're absolutely sure that it is not capable of running on an M core?
@@OneHappyCrazyPerson I've waited patiently since 2021, so a couple more months is easy (likely mid December). How exactly is the brand new Nextruder planetary gearbox extruder, modular heated bed design, and expansion capabilities of 4 additional tool heads "outdated"? I need another tool swapping printer to relieve the burden off my e3d Toolchanger and Jubilee printers; getting a much larger print volume for about the same price is just another benefit that will allow me to expand my product line and capabilities.
Hi great video especially since many of the bigger channels seem to be under embargo or arent interested in the xl Quick question though: when you compared the print time between the bamboo and the xl is that with the same nozzle size and overall material volume? Would be interesting to see the print when the same amount of material is extruded in both models...
Thanks! Not sure why they're not covering it to be honest. I've seen a video from Uncle Jessy and one from 3D Printing Nerd but that's about it. Perhaps because Prusa doesn't send review units so they'd need to purchase it themselves, and it's not an inexpensive printer. I set the layer height, perimeter count and infill percentage the same for both the XL and the X1C. The X1C result was sliced for a 0.4 nozzle versus 0.6 for the Prusa. There is less material deposited for the Bambu versus the Prusa because the extrusions are thicker with the 0.6 nozzle on the XL. This means the XL consumes more filament to print the same model. The 0.6 nozzle starts to be advantageous when you have thicker walls or thicker layers, since fewer passes are required to achieve the desired width.
Excellent review. I want one but it seems prusa has bitten of more than they can chew here. These problems should never come at this price and have tarnished the reputation of prusa.
I have no problem with stringing on the XL. It seems that your nozzle seals are not optimal adjusted. They should only touch the nozzle as slightly as possible. When the force is to high, they do not work, because the faces of seal and nozzle are not parallel.
The nozzle seals seem okay. It’s not ooze after being parked, it’s ooze during travel and took changes. I’ve heard a few people have no stringing, which is interesting, because many more seem to have it really bad.
@@ygk3d The most important thing is really dry filament. Even PLA must be dried by me to get no stringing. Another problem is that sometimes the print-profiles in PrusaSlicer are not updated correctly. I delete everything, before I import the new versions. Prusa changed a lot in the profiles the last months.
be careful when comparing the X1C and the XL. The XL lamer is heavier and extruding more filament takes more time... the X1C is still faster with 115s/g compared to the 128s/g of the XL. But its not only due to different acceleration like you said.
Why should I reward a wasteful printer? If the xl prints too much material, that's on prusa. The end user doesn't care that IF prusa did the tuning work of bambu, it might be faster - they only care about how fast it is right now. I consider using more material a huge detriment too, since i typically want to use only as much filament as necessary
@@Tom--Ace It is not about rewarding a wasteful printer. It is about make a more correct comparison. If the slicer were equal what would there print times be. You could say: Why should i reward the printer that distorts my original model more. With that said I would be nice if the XL had more tuning down to the slicer so that it can print faster. Prusa tends to not like to distorrs the thing they are printer for the stake of make a more accurate print. This mentally seems to be changing since they have been getting killed in the speed game.
Unfortunately I already sent mine back. I was getting hideous prints, especially if they were taller (like over 13cm) and had any kind of hole in the design. Then shortly after it was just completely unable to do a first layer, constantly running into it and peeling it up ruining prints using the exact same gcode and filament it had used before. And strangely the speed settings on the default profile for infill were INSANELY high and I didn't realize. Like this thing cannot do 230mm/s infill. It was leaving chunks all over the place. I really wanted to like this thing as it was my first prusa and I was excited to get another toolhead in the future, but it just wasn't worth 2 years and over 2000 dollars.
@@ygk3d It was within the 60 day window I contacted them about it. I might not like the printer but I hold no grudge against their support and warranty team.
Thanks for the videos on the XL. I had narrowed down my fdm printer choices to either the Prusa XL or the Bambu X1C. From what I see the XL isn't there yet and still lacking in a lot of areas; the base XL with one head cost is $1,999.00. The Bambu X1C seems to do more out of the box in regards to speed and quality than the XL and the cost is only $1,199.00, a savings difference of $800. I just can't see paying 2K for a printer that doesn't really set itself apart from others on the market. If its build size you need, Elegoo Nepture 4 max is on pre-order and the cost is less than $500, so maybe I need to look into that. Lots to consider until I pull the trigger.
If you want multicolor/material printing, the Bambu printers are abismal in waste and speed. The XL definitifly has the upper hand with this, it is a toolchanger and thus very different.
For the price of this setup with the multiple horends you have a bambu X1 with ams and a voron...it's really beyond me how people can still choose prusa.
Technically, there is a way to pull ahead of Bambu. I was almost tempted to get the A1C for its MMU component, but according to some reviews it had issues. If Prusa were to develop a solid "Micro MMU" for the Prusa MINI that can do what the A1C's and beyond, that would prove they're not done for yet!
Prusa right now: Guys do us a favor and pay us $4,000 to be beta testers. It'll really save us a ton of money on internal testing. We gave away all of our technology and now people smarter than us are winning but if you pour money into us you'll help us continue doing that. Thanks.
You didn't really expect this machine to be as fast as an X1C, or even anywhere close, no? These are entirely different machines. Much larger build volume = heavier moving mass = slower. There is no "could have been" there. You want a super light gantry and super light toolhead? You're not getting a tool changer. Oozing is just a fact of life with tool changers. As an E3D Tool Changer owner, there are many "solutions" to the oozing problems, but none of them are perfect.
I think it’s worth it personally, until something else like it comes along. When it works, it’s amazing. There are some kinks to be worked out but most of that should be done by the time you get it, depending on when that is.
@@ygk3d Cool thanks for the quick reply! I have a MK3 been great around 170 days printing / 8000m before the hotend started oozing, replaced it then the heatbed sensor went replaced that all good, I really need a large print area for some large 3D designs I made for RC plane floats -as the XL was so delayed I grabbed a Kobra Max but I have yet to get one of my STLs to print well from PrusaSlicer as there is no Printer profile for the Kobra Max- googled it and appears they say latest Cura is required only prob is my old iMac doesn't support the new Cura! Another if is the CS from Prusa- I had the worst CS ever when my new smooth steel plate peeled on 1st print, just like that Drac dude who had a bad $3 cable on his XL and they totally dished him, too bad Prusa CS is not like DJI!! Anyway I have to decide in the next couple hours if I send Prusa $2k....
NGL, the tool changing is such an overkill feature - even considering all the other drawbacks. I'm just not ready yet to dump 4k into it, so I will stick with by X1C for now until some fancy printer with tool changing comes along. My dream printer has 5 toolheads, 3x 0.4mm nozzle with different colors / materials, 1x 0.2mm Nozzle, 1x 0.8mm nozzle for small / lange prints. That would make my life so much easier.
Exactly. 3k can buy you lot of filament. Slow color change? Just get 4 P1S for less money than 1 XL. Gotta be real dumb or fanboy to get prusa nowdays😂
If people are still waiting for the price to equal performance and features then don't hold your breath. The money spent on this product which should have never been released is shocking. they had plenty of time before it was released to get things right but failed . They would rather have the public be the beta testers. image if you purchased a car and an Apple product with that type of philosophy.
Im so tired of hearing the x1 carbon being compared just because its slightly "larger" than a typical form factor. The build volume is TOO SMALL still, and until theres a 300mm+ cubed printer, the prusa xl is the only option over like, a modified ender 5 plus, and unfortunately its not turning out to be significantly better. This was supposed to be the chosen one and its a huge let down. Im having vibes of what happened to makerbot and thats a shame cause the sum of its parts here should make it a winner. I hope they give this thing the support it deserves, but I guess Ill be waiting for a second generation..
Personally I think you can't compare Prusa XL with the Bambu X1/P1. Well, you can, but is the same as compare a rally car with a formula 1 car, both totaly different. Yes, the Bambu is faster when printing one color, but Prusa isnt build for speed, but for quality. And to be honest, you dont buy a XL with one toolhead. You take at least 2 toolheads. I'm still waiting on my XLLLLL. At the moment I'm using 3x X1C, 2x MK4 and 1x MINI+
Haven't dug in to the X-Max just yet. Too many other projects on the go. No multi-colour capabilities on the X-Max so if that's what you're after, the XL is a no-brainer.
I still don't get it. I have the 5 toolheads version, and I have printed pla, petg, and asa. No stringing at all and I live in FL with extreme humidity. Also I doubled the print speed from the provided speed profile, and noticed much faster print times with very little reduction in quality
I don’t think that’s true. The amount of material deposited per unit time is the volumetric flow rate, which is it what we’re discussing here. If you were to match this between the two by making the XL extrusions thinner or the Bambu extrusions thicker, the result would still be the same because the XL accelerates slower. What we are comparing is the sum total of the time required to get from point A to point B as the object is printed. Just because one squeezes out more material in that time doesn’t mean it has a higher print speed, it means the volumetric flow rate is higher.
@@ygk3d Points A and B have to have the same structural properties; wall thickness, infill type infill %, etc. It is not just nozzle size. There will always be a speed to quality ratio. I have seen too many reviews these days hand out the speed prize when the model lacks detail.
No you do not have to look at same volume of plastic at all. It's on prusa if it's wasteful! Users want to use as little material as necessary. Furthermore, you'd have to put a 0.4mm nozzle on the prusa to TRULY compare, and then it would be bog slow. Which is why it comes with 0.6mm nozzle. It's ridiculous to suggest that a 0.6mm nozzle printer is disadvantaged speed wise against a 0.4mm nozzle printer - larger nozzles should always be faster, so the fact the prusa is that slow on a 0.6mm is not impressive at ALL and it's not down to plastic used!
To further reinforce my point, if you install a 0.6mm nozzle on the Bambu (not even the upgraded 2x flow rate aftermarket CHT style nozzles, just stock), the printer prints even faster than the stock 0.4mm nozzle, but uses more material - now as much as the Prusa XL. So no, you cannot punish the Bambu because it uses less material, because 0.4mm nozzles always do compared to a 0.6mm nozzle. And if you put a 0.6mm nozzle on the Bambu, it would print as much material but way faster. So it is just faster, period. Except with multi material printing 2-5 materials.
For the Bambu Lab vs Prusa XL speed comparison (ruclips.net/video/3AB5zlnQukE/видео.html), make sure to change slicer settings so that the same amount of filament (in grams) is being printed by each printer. The +15% print time of the XL is partially due to the 7.5% more filament being extruded
I don’t understand that logic. I’d be happy to change my mind if you can justify that perspective. Here’s mine: The amount of material deposited per unit time is the volumetric flow rate, which is not what we’re discussing here. If you were to match this between the two by making the XL extrusions thinner or the Bambu extrusions thicker, the result would still be the same because the XL accelerates slower. What we are comparing is the sum total of the time required to get from point A to point B as the object is printed. Just because one squeezes out more material in that time doesn’t mean it has a higher print speed, it means the volumetric flow rate is higher.
@@ygk3d The amount of filament extruded is what tells you how many points A to point B you are having to do. The Bambu slicer setting reduces the total amount of moves therefore reducing the total amount of A to Bs. So if you match the weight of plastic printed you know you are at least doing the same amount of A to B moves. This is still a rough estimation. Just because you have the same weight that does not mean it is in the same places. If the perimeters are thicker vs the infill being slightly more dense it will be faster to print infill then perimeters for example. The incorrect assumption you made was that both slicers sliced the parts without changing the model. Making the comparison with a .6 mm nozzle makes this problem more difficult. The best way to compare them is to use a .4 mm nozzle on the XL and slice the two models and compare the geometers until you have very similar moves. You don't want the sliced models to deviate much from each other. Then you use the weight to confirm they are printing the same amount. You also want to make sure the flow volumetric flow rates are the same throughout. That is what makes using a .6 mm nozzle hard to compare. Now you are certain that plastic is being laid down in the same places and they are both of equal amounts. Now it is all about speed. You should go watch Robert Cowan's recent video on it. He uses the first methode while admitting it is not apples to apples and the XL and the Bambu come out to be very similar. It is still a better method then just slicing them both and not making the weight equal. Side note: I originally wrote this using volume and weight interchangeably. This assumes that both printers will print with the same density. Depending on the material or water content this could not be the case. For most cases volume and weight can be directly correlated but it is more correct to say weight. Volume would be affected by changes made to the model.
@@Ender_Wiggin I appreciate the attempt to explain. Although, I still don’t see how that makes sense. Take, for example, a single line (one A to B), printed on two printers. Both printers take 10 seconds to complete the line, but the line is twice as thick on one printer than the other. By your logic, that printer has “faster print speeds” because it deposited more material per unit time?
@@ygk3d When you make the assumption that both lines are equal and don't change how much plastic is extruded i agree with you. If you were to change the sliced models so that one printer is extruding more (X1C) and/or the other printer (XL) is extruding less than both printer would print the single line with the same thickness. Here the advantough would be to the printer with a larger volumetric flow rate. That is why we should try and match the nozzles sizes to make the flow rate equal. To put it into other words: Take, for example, a single line (one A to B), printed on two printers. You match the printed weight for both lines in the slicer. Both printers take 10 seconds to complete the line. The line is the same weight and very similar dimension. By my logic, the printers have equal print speeds but one printer has a larger volumetric flow rate whenever that is needed. In your example, the printer is not being tested equally because one has double the volumetric flow rate. In most cases this would reduce the speed that it could travel. This is why we have to make sure that both printer are printing the same thing. If you look at the XL settings they had more walls and take slower turns compared to the Banbu settings. That is why you have to change print settings to make sure they print the same thing.
@@ygk3d You are right if the flow rates and speeds would be the same, the printer with the higher accelerations would be faster. But you can not just ignore the flow rate and or line width. I can give two examples. 1. On PrusaSlicer 2.7.0, 0.2 mm structural, prusa PLA, and XL 0.6 nozzle settings, max flow rate is limited to 15 mm^3/s. This limits the infill speed under 150 mm/s while the maximum speed would be 200 mm/s. So if you lowered the line width for infill or increased the maximum flow rate, point A to B time would decrease because speed would increase. 2. If one printer printed twice as thick line in the same time, it would need less lines to print the object so it would be faster. Try to make a cube in slicer and keep the infill percentage same but double the infill line thickness and see how much less lines it needs to do to make the same percentage of infill. Less lines, less accelerations, so faster time. I guess these should favor the XL with the bigger nozzle...
So what you're saying is that the XL is going to be able to print almost as good as my old as shit Geeetech A10 lol in the next 12 months some time haha
wow wtf you are totaly right though.. a 12 and 13 minute bonkers benchy.. thats not far off from my ender 3.. id expect way faster honestly.. kinda strange and dissapointing to hear from prusa.. i really hope they give ya somethin that makes it worth it.. an update or upgrade or somethin.. that is the VERY least they could do!
Bamboo=flashy sports car... Prusa=pickup truck I like trucks to get the job done, but others like the thrill of 0-60 in 3 seconds...Pick what you like best.
Thank you for the video. On the topic of speed XL vs X1C, you stated the alpaca takes 4:49 on the Prusa va 4:32 in the X1C. Some have pointed out the difference in weight which is a valid point, but is this really a big of a deal? +17mins is not bad on a print that is almost 5h. I mean if it was a full hour or so I would say yeah that’s a problem. But what you didn’t ask is how strong are the prints? Too fast = poor mechanical properties. That is HUGE and just because is not important to you it doesn’t mean it doesn’t count. I print mechanical parts, not trinkets. On the other hand, have fun with Bambu labs selling your data to everyone and their mama. I need more intrusive apps like I need a random bill. Cloud machines are a deal breaker. Same with Glowforge or anything similar. The XL is getting there…. Let’s see how far they take it. Keep posting the videos.
Its better but not good enough for the money it cost, you can have all the support in the world but if the printer at the price it is cant print perfectly whats the point, just because it says prusa big deal, prusa are falling behind and need to up there game which i know they can do they should not release product's that cant deliver with a promise that it will one day.
If this printer was made by ANYBODY ELSE, it likely never would have gotten this much attention and fine-tuning, and probably would have been returned. PRUSA is good at making simple Cartesian bed-slingers and that's it. The XL is completely outside of their wheelhouse and it shows. Yes, it has tool changers, but the entire design is very obviously still half-baked. You can't release something like this at $4000 + shipping anymore and be successful.
Acceleration curves are changed by varying current. Not voltage. Voltage has no bearing on stepper speed. Tell me what changes the acceleration curve? If I’m not mistaken Taylor is a mechanical or electrical engineer. I’m not. All I know is what I read in Ti white papers about acceleration curves in regards to voltage and current.
What Jason said. Fundamentally motors only know current. They don’t understand acceleration. So at a basic level, it is the current you’re modulating. That translates to a different acceleration profile.
It seems a lot of your issues are slicer settings. I think with a little more time and experience you’ll figure it out. You should note in your video that the Bambu and PRUSA are two completely different printers, but if you want to compare them that’s your choice, just know it exposes your inexperience comparing the two. Also tune into the 3D printing today podcast. They and many of us are way past prime towers and have figured out how to retract adequately up out of the melt zone.
It may not be the most logical comparison, but it's one many will make and are interested in. I am far from inexperienced ;). I'll check out the podcast - thanks for the tip.
I'm so glad prusa is developing at a slow pace. In my mind this means they're not selling out, they're not expanding too quickly beyond their expertise and they don't have drastic changes as a company that put off half the fanbase.
Lol. Going carefully is one thing. But what they did is another. Think how big they are. While they were developing it Bambu did 2 printers. Before they got input shaping, Bambu released 2 more printers, although one is derivative.
"too little too late" bros got a 3000 plus dollar printer hes ready to give up on when i wont even give up on my 160 dollar ender neo v1 lmao with that being said if you give up, send er my way so i would have some content to start makin some videos lol
@@chronokoks I dont understand your reply.. What i was saying was i see this guy giving up on a 3000 dollar printer when i wont even give up on a 160 dollar printer. If my contract is my bond and honor to my printer i think i have succeeded. So idk if your comment is directed towards me or the video creator...
@@Reds3DPrinting you don't understand it. You're some rando poor fk. Money has value, contract means if you buy something assembled, it should be properly assembled and tested. PROPERLY. Contract broken, you send the thing back You worked hard for your money so why shouldn't you get the value you worked hard for? You don't get it and you're a small brain. You're the type that will get cheated and sh%t on your whole life.
This was the most terrible printer I ever had. 1. Outdated software 2. No camera to monitor the print 3. Outdated hardware 4. 5 Toolhead Setup which does not print without an error. I tried it for 4 weeks and was not able to get the quality I knew from Bambulab. 5. No wiper for the hotends. Yes Prusa printers actually don’t wipe! This is an absolute joke and leaves a lot of mess on the print bed and the actually print itself. I had so many filament remainigs in the middle of my prints. 6. A missing wiper for the filaments is like driving a car without brakes. It’s embarrassing for Prusa sorry. 7. Comparing Prusa to Bambu printers is like a modern car against a horse wagon from the 18th century. I had to buy a Prusa printer before I understood how far ahead Bambu Printers are. Take any 300 dollar Bambu printer and it will outperform the Prusa XL flagship which costs thousands of dollars. My concern is that Prusa will be dead in the next 5 years. Which is very bad for competition. I could continue the list with 20 other showstopper for this printer. It’s just a very very bad printer. I was able to send mine back to Prusa based on the 60 days return policy. The only good point about this printer is the Prusa support. Those guys were awesome.
Oh and those guys who have 10 Prusa printers in their backround will never admit that they mad a very big mistake. They invested so much money and keep lying to themselves. They are too pride to admit that their printers suck, while Bambu has revolutionized the industry.
@@ygk3d litterally at the end of every long sentance, or the whole sentance if it's short. I think it's called vocal fry. Sorry for being personal, I do enjoy your content.
@@ygk3d I'm sure it would be a hard habit to break, and really, screw me and my opinion. You do you man. It is crazy that people never seem to notice, though (I certainly never), until suddenly you do notice or it's pointed out, and then you can't stop hearing it whenever it's there. And as you know, even people that do it themselves, don't realise. It's quite an interesting phenomenon when you start reading about it. I don't agree at all with some of the opinions regarding how someone is precived if they speak that way. I just that now I cannot unhear it. But that really is a "me problem".
It's too little too late. Dynamic input shaper is confirmed to not be planned right now. Plus bambu more than likely has an xl competitor in the works. This printer is over valued for what it is.
Can't take your video seriously when your gauge of filament moisture uptake is that "it's freshly opened"… then you proceed to place the spool directly on the PrintDry heater element (which I own and have been using for years). Then you go on an excursion about how a heavy toolhead moves slower than a lighter toolhead and somehow it's Prusa's fault that it doesn't obey physics.
I acknowledged that the logic was flawed, hence why I dried it and tried again. The PrintDry works just fine like that by the way. The air inside it gets hot either way. I actually made no reference to the weight of the tool head. If weight is holding the Prusa back, they should make the tool head lighter.
I keep going back and forth between wishing I’d pre-ordered earlier and being glad that I didn’t.
I got an XL 5 Head and I can’t really say that it is worth the money yet. I am not disappointed that I bought one but I can’t say that it is an incredible bang-for-buck machine. However, if the support is as good as it was for my first Prusa Printer (Mk2) then it will eventually become and incredible printer.
Hardware wise the XL has much more potential and with Prusa you just know that they keep bringing out new firmware and slicer-tweaks for several years. The build quality of Prusa printers is good enough to last alt least five years, even with near continu running. Don't know if printers of other brands will be capable of that.
Yeah but nowdays even creality brings much faster update than prusa...
Probably wait for XL mk2 or XL mk3 before they get it to where it should be.
@@wilsistermans1118where did you get the "at least 5 years"
@@Declopseseeing as it's already taken 2 years to get to market then it's even less likely to last that long 🤣
I have my XL for two weeks now. I changed the nozzels for Bondtech CHT's. The printer came with the new alpha firmware installed. I did not have any stringing with PLA and very little with PETG. As the Bondtech CHT nozzels are capable of melting the plastic faster, I've set the printspeeds about 15% faster. The Bondtech CHT nozzels not only melt the filament faster, the have less ozing too.
I agree with my Mk4. Bondtech cht nozzle is just 👌
It came with the alpha installed? That seems strange. Thanks for the tip on the nozzles.
Interesting, I have a Bondtech CHT on my FLSun V400 but I didn't consider them for my XL. Did you use the prusa "nozzle adapter" and regular Bondtech CHT nozzles, or is there something I am unaware of?
I think PRUSA released the XL before it was ready, with that said, they have years off goodwill they have built with the community and I think they will make it right.
I got mine in May 2024 and it was a horrible printer. I sent it back last week and bought back my Bambu printer and two new A1 minis instead.
Excelent review as always, but I would love to see a video of the XL making the most of those toolheads.
By this, I mean:
* Printing with different nozzles, a large one for infill and a small one for perimeters and details.
* Printing with different filaments... solubles / regular ones.
* Combining rigid filaments with TPU to achieve more complex objects.
Hey - I did all three with my XL 2 Toolhead:
Printing with different nozzles is super hard and not really supported at the moment. This only works if you use on nozzle only for supports for example.
Printing Different Filaments works great. For example PETG Models with PLA supports works amazing.
I printed handles for Pushups for my wife since she has problems with her hands. I used a model from turntables and put a cylinder of TPU around it in Prusa Slicer. Printed great and works great. No Problem at all.
The only thing I found out is that PETG sticks really well to TPU, so PETG supports for TPU will result in a very hard challenge afterwards - I needed an hour to get the supports of semi cleanly.
@@zebarzebra wow nice.
Yes, I saw a video from ModBot (I think?) that tested supports using different materials, and he got pretty good results. Glad to hear that it works great with the XL.
Thanks! I’ll show off different material combinations in the next video.
@@ygk3d Cool! thanks =)
@@ygk3dthanks!
if I remember correct there is a port on the main board for an accelerometer... but nothing connected yet... have a look yourself ;)
You could install a 0.4 mm nozle in one of the XL's heads and show differences in speed and print quality vs. the results with 0.6 mm nozle.
i thought you could only run 1 size?
Thanks for the updates Tylor I got my 5 colors XL few days ago and going to unpack and put it together this weekend.
One thing to note about speed is that prusa actually cares about part functionality and strength. Its easy to critisize speed if you are making prototypes all the time and dont care about rigitity and the like. But prusa has experience with ACTUAL manufacturing - every single printer they have ever made is partially printed. They actually take the time to make strength checks and slow down the printer for strength and toughness purposes instead of pumping out crappy plastic garbage at the maximum speed.
I'm very happy with the strength and speed of my abs/ASA-CF on my bambus. I own an XL, excited for plates
u could, and easily, slow down ur printer on all machines. u are just fanboying for prusa, cause bambu can print much faster than their default settings which as u said are better but prusa can not.
Very fair point. There's a lot of marketing claims that are selling printers on claims, rather than like-for-like speed comparison of quality- and strength-matched printed parts. Thinking about it, that's a great idea for YGK3D reviews in future: create some standard designs and tests, and review the speed-quality-strength trade-offs and relative strengths of different manufacturers. Maybe choose a range of parts to print, like functional load-bearing parts, different materials, detailed aesthetic prints, etc.
HAHAHAHA
Would be interesting to compare XL with 0.4 nozzle or bambu with 0.6 nozzle.
Also worth noting, the move to the prime tower before lowering Z during a tool change happens on the pre sliced benchy they provided but not if you slice prints yourself. I'm on alpha firmware and PS 2.7 and the behavior is still the same as it was.
Ah interesting. I wonder why that is. Hopefully they make that universal soon.
For that price should be enclosed.
your XL alpaca was 162g, and 142g for your X1 alpaca. the 20g isn't going to make up all of the time difference, but when you mix in the speedy toolhead changes, I think it starts to show its advantages. especially for people that sell a lot of prints, through much less wasted material. i think a video that people want to see is a large multi color print where we can really see the benefits of the XL. the XL wasn't built with speed as the primary feature, so doing a test that does test its strengths would be cool. like a side by side Timelapse of a large multi-color print on both printers
yeah but also X1 can print a basically perfect benchy in around 15 minutes, XL not even close ;)
@@riba2233 according to whom? it can do a 15 minute benchy. but that's not why you'd buy an XL. do a 4 color bench and compare the speed. the XL will print several benchies in the same time as the X1 prints one. even the A1 mini beats the X1's at this due to a slightly faster AMS, but the XL does it with virtually no downtime for color switches and wastes nearly no plastic either. i'm saying this as the owner of an A1 mini and two X1 carbons AMS combos, and a long time prusa fan
@@ame7165 yeah sure, for multicolor I agree, but for single color they are not even close
@@riba2233 yeah i mean for single color, the XL doesn't push as hard, but the toolchanger adds a lot of mass to the head, so i think that's the trade off for the fast and efficient switching. i love prusa but it's hard to justify the price of the XL, even if they get it to a point where it's turn-key
@@ame7165 true, I get that it is a special product and there is nothing really like it (outside for some custom stuff) but it is definitely too expensive.
The XL actually does have an onboard accelerometer for every toolhead, it's just not implemented in the aplha yet.
I know they've said that. But they also said it was "vital", yet are living without it in the alpha and made no mention of when it would start to be used.
@@ygk3d Yea they have a weird stance on the whole accelerometer thing, also with not putting it on the mk4. But saying it isn't there is very misleading imo.
@@ren8 I didn't say it wasn't there, just that I couldn't find it. I found it strange that they made no mention of it in the blog, even if it wasn't being used right now.
It's not onboard and never will.
So I had a late pre-order - I've had mine a few months. The nice thing is...how much has been ironed out. I don't worry that much about speed so I can't speak to that - but I can say, anecdotally, that my xl runs like a champ. It. Just. Works. I've been running it nearly non-stop. The 6.x firmware has all but totally remove vibration. The bottom line is this machine has a lot of advanced tech in it - and fully using it all correctly is taking some time to get right. But it's definitely moving forward. No regrets here.
Indeed, same here.
Besides, I love Czech people and their culture. Hard working, humble, kind, a bit drunk sometimes, but they deliver.
Thank you for showing the changes and updates with this machine.
Thank god I canceled my order 2 years ago; I would be pissed that I would have received a printer that was not fully baked after 2 years of waiting. And see, they still need to work out a good portion of the issues even though they said delays were to provide better quality. And to add input shaping and pressure advance, which has been around for years. By the time this is a refined printer, they will be 3 years behind technology. Prusa has lost its way.
Can you try some multicolour/filament prints on the XL (not just benchy), and see the differences in quality and time between the XL and the Bambu X1C? As you said, the biggest thing the XL has is the lightning fast tool changes, so I would love to see that be explored a bit more. In what scenarios is the XL's tool changing superior in time AND quality, and in what scenarios is the Bambu set up better.
I saw in a different channel a guy with a 2 head XL, and he's doing TPU inside another material (forget if it was PLA or PETG), in order to make pressable buttons. Now that's not even possible in the AMS I think since it doesn't officially support TPU. What about using PETG as support for PLA, does that set up work well? Do the supports leave a nicer surface than normal same material supports on the XL? I know I can do that on the AMS, but it is just so slow with the filament swap, and since it is different material, you can't reduce the poop amount. Anyway, those are just some ideas to showcase what the XL might be better at.
The XL head change is leagues faster than an X1 or P1 printer. (10-15 seconds vs 90 seconds on average) BUT...the quality from several youtubers have shown poorer print quality. so you can save a bunch of time depending on the print but may have an inferior model at the end. 6:19
@@ashleys3dprintshop Yes I have seen some poor results with the XL, but I always wonder if those were maybe printed too hot, or maybe it's because of the default .6 nozzle? It seems like the XL has potential. Where as Bambu are much more turn key. So if you wanna hack at the Prusa, maybe it'll be able to print nicely. But I do wish either Bambu made a tool changer, or Prusa makes a smaller tool changer, that'd be perfect. I don't really need the giant print volume. But I do want multi-material/color prints.
Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll show off some more adventurous prints in the next video.
@@shenqiangshou Re: "but I always wonder if those were maybe printed too hot, or maybe it's because of the default .6 nozzle", Prusa obviously believes the 0.6mm nozzle was part of the problem, as they have switched to 0.4 for further XL sales. But there is a lot more to the problem. Prusa believed they could prevent the stringing and color runs without a head-cleaner. And so far they are wrong. There are some community mods that add a small brass wire brush, and they drag the tool head across that when parking. This is the real solution, because one of the biggest problems is filament oozing out a bit on parking, then later getting dragged back into the print where that color isn't supposed to go.
Physics is against Prusa on this until they decide to add a nozzle cleaning step which requires a minor hardware mod (for the cleaning brush).
I'm still thinking about getting an XL. Im watching channels like yours to see how the issues are fixed. I think if I did get one I'd put 0.4mm nozzles on from the beginning. I think Prusa should provide this option when you order the XL without having to order the 0.4mm nozzles separately.
Nice deep dive. I really don’t car about speed. Speed has been a rabbit hole for Prusa
I'd be very happy if the XL could achieve MK4 speed with MK4 quality in the XL print volume.
good review. I am calibrating my new xl now and pray I didn't waste 2500$
I hope the Prusa XL improves fast from here on, at least fast enough to remain relevant when more tool changers come to the market over the next few years. I was seriously thinking about an XL, and contemplating a twin tool head version that I could later upgrade to five. I love the approach Prusa have to upgrades over time, and to continuous product improvement. I think that's really the key advantage of a Prusa over other manufacturers. I'd buy a Mark 4 now, because it's been sorted and just works and has beautiful quality, but its build area is not large enough for what I need. But the XL is not yet at that point of reaching its performance potential.
I have to say, I so want to support Prusa and see the XL succeed. They deserve it for their investment in open source, Prusa slicer, and their dedication to quality and innovation. But their product development speed is just not up there at the level people are starting to expect after Bambu Labs arrived on the scene. I watched this video after just having watched CNC Kitchen's interview of the Bambu Labs CEO, and he teased that the next generation 'X2' printers would be when they would launch a larger sized printer, but they wanted to wait until the printer was not only 'the same but larger' but had moved the product on to the next step... which makes me wonder if that "next step" will include tool changers... and whether by the time Prusa's XL is fully sorted, Bambu will have launched a tool changer XL competitor that's faster, cheaper, with fully sorted Prusa slicer derivative 'Bambu Multimaterial Slicer'?
But the price point for two tool heads, when the machine isn't fully functioning after two years, has made me think twice. I'm currently thinking of getting a Qidi X Max 3 instead as a stop-gap printer, and waiting for a year or so to see what happens with the XL and whether any better alternatives arrive. I'm sure I can't be alone in taking this approach, given the Qidi and now SOVOL SV08 price points are so competitive. My worry for Prusa is that they just can't compete on price without moving to a mass production model like Bambu. I hope they find a way to accelerate their development work, because I would happily buy Prusa over alternatives if only their product development was faster and their launch products did what the marketing claims.
Prusa default input slicer profiles are extremely conservative. All you have to do is modify some settings and then your print will finish just as fast as bambu lab.
The Prusa XL/Mk4 with input shaping is just as fast as anything bambu lab when using apples to apples settings. I did an exact comparison the other day and the MK4 finishes exactly one min faster than the X1C using same settings.
Im sick of people doing "prusa vs bambu lab" speed comparisons...when they don't even try to match slicer settings.
I think there’s merit in comparing the “factory” settings. Sure, you can crank up the speeds, but it should be the manufacturer’s prerogative to supply the fastest possible profile while maintaining quality. Of course you have to match layer height, perimeters, infill, etc. to make it a fair comparison.
@@ygk3d Prusa has stated multiple times that they're not in the speed game. It's not their end goal. It's why their MK4/XL/mini all have pretty conservative IS speeds by default. They favor quality, strength and reliability over speed. They even called it all "marketing bullshit", which it is. If you want speed, just turn up the settings.
I was in the pre order list for this printer. Then I saw Taylor’s video on the Troodon 2.0. Bought a 2.0, installed klipper on it and printed tons of stuff at 200mm sec in ABS to my delight. Cancelled my Xl order.
Looking at these videos, it appears Taylor saved me a bunch of money and headache. I’m glad I stuck with the Troodon. I liked my previous Průša printers, love the ecosystem and helpful users. Bambu users turned me away from that printer for sure.
Comparing this XL to a Bambu is wrong. The size of the printer really has a bearing on the speed. Gantry weight of the little Bambu is so much less than the much bigger XL. It’s like comparing Bambu speed to a Voron 0.1. But I get why it’s done, Bambu for some reason is perceived as the competition to the XL and Voron just never gets mentioned. Maybe because the comparison is for printers you pull out of the box and print with no manufacturing or little assembly involved. Then the Troodon 2.0 gets ignored in that argument being a fully assembled Voron with injection molded and metal parts.
Either way, thanks to Taylor for putting me onto the Troodon 2.0, putting the time into the klipper printer.cfg, and therefore avoiding an XL purchase. And the Bambu community thank you for making me avoid you.
I have zero doubt that Josef and his team will sort this out. However, it would be nice if it was shipped working well.
Cheers Jason. Thanks for your continued viewership.
Is the Troodon 2.0 a mult-tool head?
I canceled my 3 years preorder for the XL .. I will stick to my exsited MK3s for now ..
The XL doesn't need to be as fast as a Bambu for single color. My reason for wanting an XL is for multi color prints, which take forever on my Bambu X1C
This. That's the niche of this machine.
For single material or materials 6-16, the bambu is just better (6-16 only because this only has 5 print heads)
Also if some1 like to print multiple different material types, lets say tpu and PC, bambu can’t do that, XL can. So XL opens a lot of new oportunities.
@@Bebamyotamaki bambu can and does it, support materials that are different but also complete different filaments. It's up to the user, if the chosen plastics bound is another question.
@@Bebamyotamaki it seems you are a fan boy that never even looked further then prusa and have some wrong Idea what other printers can't or can do. Just because prusa printer can do something doesn't make it the standard.. the printer firmware and it's options are hopelessly outdated. One could never hook up a adxl for input calibration, you just get some values for some slow printing and that's it. It's not really input shaping as it's not dynamic.
@@Bebamyotamaki that is the plan. Tpu and pla mixed
I just paid for my 5 head XL. I still prefer the prusa printers ecosystem and customer service.
retarded enough to buy a prusa in 2023, retarded enough to need customer support 🤣🤣🤣🤣👌
@@elmonni2103No need to be toxic
to me it just proves how far prusa had their head in the sand for so many years riding off the reputation of being first and reliable, now they are starting to actually get some competition in reliable fast machines and they need to improve their speeds its just showing how much they are reacting and figuring it out and pushing stuff before its ready, just like they and prusa fans have critisized every other manufactuer for over the years with their heads up their a holes, you would think that prusa of all companies would be the ones to release a polished well tuned product that works and is reliable, but no instead they rush and push out crap before its ready to try to avoid looking bad by not having a competative printer on paper, they tarnish their reputation by instead having a printer that looks competitive on paper but in reality is a total s show, again just like every prusa fan has critisized every other manufacturer for all these years
just to be fair it's taken the three years to send out my notice to order. That was not exactly a rush job but we all get your point.
To be fair(accurate), it's 'only' been 2 years.@@dwaynevarnell9157
Too bad XL wasn't mass tested with input shaping and things like resonance compensation were not even planned.
@YGK3D I would be great to get an update video on your Prusa XL with the .4 nozzle and all of the firmware updates. Would be interesting see what your thoughts on the current print quality.
I’m planning to do a long term review at some point.
I have the 2 tool version. I’ve been running nonstop for weeks now and tried the input shaping alpha for a couple days before switching back. I did see a significant time reduction in some prints, but I had issues with the GUI, errors during print starts, print pauses due to false errors and a couple long prints error out past the 90% point. That last one alone was enough for me to go back to the stable version, but I’m looking forward to the official update and the new features.
That’s disappointing. Hopefully they release a stable version soon.
The XL with multicolor with its input shaping won't show its advantage doing a small benchy. Look at Joel Tellings recent post with the massive Clockspring3d multicolor print. But looking forward to the update to deal w stringing.
Honestly - Prusa is facing an uphill battle. It used to be that you sat through their backorders because you knew what you were getting at the end would be better than the competition. Now, they're charging a premium and making people wait for devices that perform less well than things that cost less than they do. They've been left somewhat behind.
A friend of mine was one of the Prusa faithful. I've been telling him to get on the core-xy train for a long time, but as he produces items for sale he wanted to stay with Prusa as he trusted them. After getting backordered for over three months he gave up and bought an X1C and not looked back. I believe his Prusa mk IIIs are all being sold off relatively cheaply or repurposed into other things.
I suspect the best way forward for them would be to concentrate on larger format / industrial printers and to more or less completely de-emphasise their consumer machines similar to Ultimaker.
And that would only shoot them in the foot honestly. Given their seeming dedication to the hobbyist and DIYer, abandoning them in favor of industry would look terrible on them. Truthfully, Prusa needed to hold off on their MkIV release and opt to add in some of the features they are releasing now with the release of the machines. The lack of accelerometer on the MkIII despite there being Voron's that have them, the struggle to get input shaping functioning well, the lack of other software features just screams rushed and half baked. If they held out and released the machines in a better state, Prusa would be facing such an uphill battle.
@@TBonerism I have gone Voron myself and don't think I'm every going to buy a commercial printer again. I've got CAN, input shaping, accelerometer and my board can support 48v motors.
Only thing that they really lose against the commercial offerings at the moment is the AMS. ERCF looks overcomplicated enough that I've not even considered it. Seems like a lot of work for a system that will break down every ten minutes.
But that said - if I was running a print farm or small manufactory I'd have to be insane to put the work into the number of Vorons you'd need, which is where the "just work" guys come in. That used to be Prusa, but they've been dethroned by Bambu for everyone who isn't already in the Prusa ecosystem.
Prusa have basically put themselves outside of both the "I need twenty printers" and the enthusiasts markets due to selling an inferior product at a higher price that you have to wait for.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that sticking with Marlin is so that they can essentially dominate the codebase and steer it in a Prusa-friendly direction. I think with the number of companies and open source projects that now use Klipper that would be a big struggle.
The print speed for multicolor prints for the Prusa XL can be several times shorter due to the amount of color purging needed. Its really quite drastic a 16 hour multicolor print on a Bambu can take 5 hours on the XL, thats where the XL shines along with the bigger print bed, so print speed with single coloris not the most important factor although Prusa does lag behind with regarss to print quality and speed...Surely bambu is working on something similar. That will be really dangerous for Prusa.
In regard to the stringing, how about doing some oozing tests with 2 little cones, finding a temperature at which there is no oozing on the filament in question. This might require turning down the fans, in order to maintain good layer adhesion, but it should also remove a large portion of the stringing.
I'm using 2 small cones, about 7mm x 15mm and 4cm apart of each other. A quick way to find the filament temperature, that provides optimal visual print quality.
Might have to recalibrate pressure advance after finding the optimal non oozing temperature.
Day by day with each improvement I move closer to wanting one. Seems like a great compliment for my X1C.
I'm returning mine due to just generally bad prints and often skipping/underextruding layers on tall prints. Give it a year until it seems a more finished product.
@@redkingrauri3769 more people have this, prusa isn't what it used to be. Only fan boys go spend 2500 for something that underperforms but has the prusa brand on it. Just buy a X1 with ams and a voron then you still have money left for filament and your still cheaper that the xl with toolheads and low speeds.
@@redkingrauri3769Sorry to hear that, sounds like a big let-down.
Though, for potential future buyers like myself, not so bad considering what looks to be great potential.
What are your 2 biggest annoyances and 2 things you really like about it?
@@floodo1
Biggest likes:
Prints were flawless on overhangs
Nextruder eliminating the need for Z-offset was very welcome.
Annoyances:
Tall prints (like 13cm+) always had a strange underextrusion that made them brittle and break
Later on could not get a good first layer to save my life resulting in every print peeling up even using gcode and filament that had worked well on the same print.
@@redkingrauri3769 ty
I think I am finally ready to pay for my two head XL....thanks
When they fix the price, I'll consider this an option.
Facts, Prusa's cost of entry is just too high. $800 for a Mk4 kit as a basic klipper printer is far too much with the competition being as steep as it is now.
You should do a video on the dangers of dealing with Bambu from China vs European printers like Prusa. You do sound like you have a like for the Bambi printers and I hope you talk about their activities trying to do things with the Printables site.
What dangers? the Cloud? You know you can always run the Bambu LAN only, right?
Yes, I know. Thoughts on the Prusa response to Bambu over the activities at Printables? @@chaosengine3772 Scary thing is while you can run lan only, you shouldn't have to.
@@chaosengine3772also danger of feeding a country that has no regard for patent, open source, or stealing all the intellectual property they can. That is also a danger.
@@Shadrackc Nearly every part that makes up a Prusa is sourced eventually from guess where? Greedy corporations and governments made China what it is today. Bang your drum much harder, no one will hear you.
The more I see about the new Prusa printers, the happier I am that I opted to go with a bambu lab printer. Smaller printers not shipping with input shaping, the input shaping that gets implemented later is default values and doesn't get changed per machine (which could be important through the life span of the machine), prusa seemingly not being fully transparent with implementation of input shaping on the XL, and them seemingly not shipping finished products. Like, most of these "new" features all seem like they should have been implemented AT LAUNCH. These machines feel like anyone that buys them has seemingly been enrolled in a large scale beta testing platform without their knowledge and at the cost of Prusa machines, that is simply unacceptable.
The Bambu lab CEO has already said that their XL release will be a next gen printer so you can assume it will be a larger X1C with multi-tool support and be no more expensive than the Prusa XL. IMO, these problems you've had and the lack of features are kinda unacceptable in an expensive printer. Prusa has had too little competition and have been resting on their laurels for way too long so have to play catch up, and it doesn't seem to be going well.
This is an impressive show for the XL considering the size difference to the x1c. A larger printer will never be able to out-speed a smaller one. I.e. The banbu can't beat a voron zero.
This is exciting to hear, though if I had one I would have likely given up already. I commend your patience
Great video. It's for that reason that I prefer custom 3d printers and I publish tutorials for them on my channel for nerds Like me 💪
Given that Prusa is no longer constrained by an 8bit system, I wouldn't be surprised if they were working on a Klipper FW version for the XL, Mini, & MK4. At least I would hope that they would be working on it if they want to stay competitive. Just got my email for the XL5H today. Looking forward to seeing what it's capable of.
Somewhere next year you have it 🤣 hopelessly outdated and way over priced! Great job!!
Not going to happen. You need a Linux Machine to run klippy. That means cortexA cores. The printers run with only CortexM cores
@@Tremoneck that's quite stupid of prusa to do.
@@Tremoneck I did not know that. I was under the impression that Klipper would work on any ARM, AVR, or PRU processor regardless of which actual core is used, but you're absolutely sure that it is not capable of running on an M core?
@@OneHappyCrazyPerson I've waited patiently since 2021, so a couple more months is easy (likely mid December). How exactly is the brand new Nextruder planetary gearbox extruder, modular heated bed design, and expansion capabilities of 4 additional tool heads "outdated"? I need another tool swapping printer to relieve the burden off my e3d Toolchanger and Jubilee printers; getting a much larger print volume for about the same price is just another benefit that will allow me to expand my product line and capabilities.
Correct me if im wrong, Bambu cant use multiple materials for a single print right?
Good points
Seams as a quality of life thou
Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us :-)
Hi great video especially since many of the bigger channels seem to be under embargo or arent interested in the xl
Quick question though: when you compared the print time between the bamboo and the xl is that with the same nozzle size and overall material volume? Would be interesting to see the print when the same amount of material is extruded in both models...
Thanks! Not sure why they're not covering it to be honest. I've seen a video from Uncle Jessy and one from 3D Printing Nerd but that's about it. Perhaps because Prusa doesn't send review units so they'd need to purchase it themselves, and it's not an inexpensive printer.
I set the layer height, perimeter count and infill percentage the same for both the XL and the X1C. The X1C result was sliced for a 0.4 nozzle versus 0.6 for the Prusa. There is less material deposited for the Bambu versus the Prusa because the extrusions are thicker with the 0.6 nozzle on the XL. This means the XL consumes more filament to print the same model. The 0.6 nozzle starts to be advantageous when you have thicker walls or thicker layers, since fewer passes are required to achieve the desired width.
Excellent review. I want one but it seems prusa has bitten of more than they can chew here. These problems should never come at this price and have tarnished the reputation of prusa.
Thank you! The machine has improved greatly over time with firmware updates. It still isn’t perfect but I do really like it.
I have no problem with stringing on the XL. It seems that your nozzle seals are not optimal adjusted. They should only touch the nozzle as slightly as possible. When the force is to high, they do not work, because the faces of seal and nozzle are not parallel.
The nozzle seals seem okay. It’s not ooze after being parked, it’s ooze during travel and took changes. I’ve heard a few people have no stringing, which is interesting, because many more seem to have it really bad.
@@ygk3d The most important thing is really dry filament. Even PLA must be dried by me to get no stringing. Another problem is that sometimes the print-profiles in PrusaSlicer are not updated correctly. I delete everything, before I import the new versions. Prusa changed a lot in the profiles the last months.
Great review.
From what I can take away is that Bambu has overtaken Prusa in the technical and quality of printers and software
Thanks!
be careful when comparing the X1C and the XL. The XL lamer is heavier and extruding more filament takes more time...
the X1C is still faster with 115s/g compared to the 128s/g of the XL.
But its not only due to different acceleration like you said.
Why should I reward a wasteful printer?
If the xl prints too much material, that's on prusa.
The end user doesn't care that IF prusa did the tuning work of bambu, it might be faster - they only care about how fast it is right now.
I consider using more material a huge detriment too, since i typically want to use only as much filament as necessary
@@Tom--Ace
If you want a wasteful printer, look no further than the Bambu on colour changes.
@@Tom--Ace It is not about rewarding a wasteful printer. It is about make a more correct comparison. If the slicer were equal what would there print times be. You could say:
Why should i reward the printer that distorts my original model more.
With that said I would be nice if the XL had more tuning down to the slicer so that it can print faster. Prusa tends to not like to distorrs the thing they are printer for the stake of make a more accurate print. This mentally seems to be changing since they have been getting killed in the speed game.
When this works this will be a great machine
Unfortunately I already sent mine back. I was getting hideous prints, especially if they were taller (like over 13cm) and had any kind of hole in the design. Then shortly after it was just completely unable to do a first layer, constantly running into it and peeling it up ruining prints using the exact same gcode and filament it had used before. And strangely the speed settings on the default profile for infill were INSANELY high and I didn't realize. Like this thing cannot do 230mm/s infill. It was leaving chunks all over the place.
I really wanted to like this thing as it was my first prusa and I was excited to get another toolhead in the future, but it just wasn't worth 2 years and over 2000 dollars.
Sorry to hear. That’s a frustrating experience. I’m actually surprised they let you send it back.
@@ygk3d It was within the 60 day window I contacted them about it. I might not like the printer but I hold no grudge against their support and warranty team.
Thanks for the videos on the XL. I had narrowed down my fdm printer choices to either the Prusa XL or the Bambu X1C. From what I see the XL isn't there yet and still lacking in a lot of areas; the base XL with one head cost is $1,999.00. The Bambu X1C seems to do more out of the box in regards to speed and quality than the XL and the cost is only $1,199.00, a savings difference of $800. I just can't see paying 2K for a printer that doesn't really set itself apart from others on the market. If its build size you need, Elegoo Nepture 4 max is on pre-order and the cost is less than $500, so maybe I need to look into that. Lots to consider until I pull the trigger.
If you want multicolor/material printing, the Bambu printers are abismal in waste and speed. The XL definitifly has the upper hand with this, it is a toolchanger and thus very different.
@@username9774 The XL in it's current state is unfinished. It's way past recalling it. It's an embarrassment for Prusa and it's customers.
For the price of this setup with the multiple horends you have a bambu X1 with ams and a voron...it's really beyond me how people can still choose prusa.
Technically, there is a way to pull ahead of Bambu. I was almost tempted to get the A1C for its MMU component, but according to some reviews it had issues. If Prusa were to develop a solid "Micro MMU" for the Prusa MINI that can do what the A1C's and beyond, that would prove they're not done for yet!
Prusa right now: Guys do us a favor and pay us $4,000 to be beta testers. It'll really save us a ton of money on internal testing. We gave away all of our technology and now people smarter than us are winning but if you pour money into us you'll help us continue doing that. Thanks.
You didn't really expect this machine to be as fast as an X1C, or even anywhere close, no? These are entirely different machines. Much larger build volume = heavier moving mass = slower. There is no "could have been" there. You want a super light gantry and super light toolhead? You're not getting a tool changer. Oozing is just a fact of life with tool changers. As an E3D Tool Changer owner, there are many "solutions" to the oozing problems, but none of them are perfect.
Hey thanks for the vid! I'm on the ropes do I pay remainder of XL or wait and get a refund- honest opinion if the XL is worth the $ ? thanks!
I think it’s worth it personally, until something else like it comes along. When it works, it’s amazing. There are some kinks to be worked out but most of that should be done by the time you get it, depending on when that is.
@@ygk3d Cool thanks for the quick reply! I have a MK3 been great around 170 days printing / 8000m before the hotend started oozing, replaced it then the heatbed sensor went replaced that all good, I really need a large print area for some large 3D designs I made for RC plane floats -as the XL was so delayed I grabbed a Kobra Max but I have yet to get one of my STLs to print well from PrusaSlicer as there is no Printer profile for the Kobra Max- googled it and appears they say latest Cura is required only prob is my old iMac doesn't support the new Cura! Another if is the CS from Prusa- I had the worst CS ever when my new smooth steel plate peeled on 1st print, just like that Drac dude who had a bad $3 cable on his XL and they totally dished him, too bad Prusa CS is not like DJI!! Anyway I have to decide in the next couple hours if I send Prusa $2k....
Amazing! I have read the blog post, how did you not mention “This turns the XL into the fastest and most efficient multi-material solution out there”?
I think I showed that with evidence. 10s tool changes v.s. 1:45. That really adds up when there is a lot of filament swaps.
NGL, the tool changing is such an overkill feature - even considering all the other drawbacks. I'm just not ready yet to dump 4k into it, so I will stick with by X1C for now until some fancy printer with tool changing comes along.
My dream printer has 5 toolheads, 3x 0.4mm nozzle with different colors / materials, 1x 0.2mm Nozzle, 1x 0.8mm nozzle for small / lange prints. That would make my life so much easier.
Exactly. 3k can buy you lot of filament. Slow color change? Just get 4 P1S for less money than 1 XL. Gotta be real dumb or fanboy to get prusa nowdays😂
If people are still waiting for the price to equal performance and features then don't hold your breath. The money spent on this product which should have never been released is shocking. they had plenty of time before it was released to get things right but failed . They would rather have the public be the beta testers. image if you purchased a car and an Apple product with that type of philosophy.
Im so tired of hearing the x1 carbon being compared just because its slightly "larger" than a typical form factor. The build volume is TOO SMALL still, and until theres a 300mm+ cubed printer, the prusa xl is the only option over like, a modified ender 5 plus, and unfortunately its not turning out to be significantly better. This was supposed to be the chosen one and its a huge let down. Im having vibes of what happened to makerbot and thats a shame cause the sum of its parts here should make it a winner. I hope they give this thing the support it deserves, but I guess Ill be waiting for a second generation..
Thx - canceling our XL order - Bambu too good
Personally I think you can't compare Prusa XL with the Bambu X1/P1. Well, you can, but is the same as compare a rally car with a formula 1 car, both totaly different. Yes, the Bambu is faster when printing one color, but Prusa isnt build for speed, but for quality. And to be honest, you dont buy a XL with one toolhead. You take at least 2 toolheads. I'm still waiting on my XLLLLL. At the moment I'm using 3x X1C, 2x MK4 and 1x MINI+
Good point.
Do you prefer the Pursa XL or your Qidi XMAX ?
Haven't dug in to the X-Max just yet. Too many other projects on the go. No multi-colour capabilities on the X-Max so if that's what you're after, the XL is a no-brainer.
Nope. Not too little too late. Love my XL5
I still don't get it. I have the 5 toolheads version, and I have printed pla, petg, and asa. No stringing at all and I live in FL with extreme humidity. Also I doubled the print speed from the provided speed profile, and noticed much faster print times with very little reduction in quality
Jealous. Did you drop the temperatures at all, or you’re using the stock profiles?
@@ygk3d just using the generic PLA profile. No tuning or tweaking.
Don't the run a printer before selling it?
Stringing doesn't always mean moisture
When comparing speeds you have to look at the final volume of plastic.
I don’t think that’s true. The amount of material deposited per unit time is the volumetric flow rate, which is it what we’re discussing here. If you were to match this between the two by making the XL extrusions thinner or the Bambu extrusions thicker, the result would still be the same because the XL accelerates slower. What we are comparing is the sum total of the time required to get from point A to point B as the object is printed. Just because one squeezes out more material in that time doesn’t mean it has a higher print speed, it means the volumetric flow rate is higher.
@@ygk3d Points A and B have to have the same structural properties; wall thickness, infill type infill %, etc. It is not just nozzle size.
There will always be a speed to quality ratio. I have seen too many reviews these days hand out the speed prize when the model lacks detail.
No you do not have to look at same volume of plastic at all.
It's on prusa if it's wasteful! Users want to use as little material as necessary.
Furthermore, you'd have to put a 0.4mm nozzle on the prusa to TRULY compare, and then it would be bog slow. Which is why it comes with 0.6mm nozzle.
It's ridiculous to suggest that a 0.6mm nozzle printer is disadvantaged speed wise against a 0.4mm nozzle printer - larger nozzles should always be faster, so the fact the prusa is that slow on a 0.6mm is not impressive at ALL and it's not down to plastic used!
@@Tom--Ace Setting infill type and % is on the user. I will pick the best infill for the model.
To further reinforce my point, if you install a 0.6mm nozzle on the Bambu (not even the upgraded 2x flow rate aftermarket CHT style nozzles, just stock), the printer prints even faster than the stock 0.4mm nozzle, but uses more material - now as much as the Prusa XL.
So no, you cannot punish the Bambu because it uses less material, because 0.4mm nozzles always do compared to a 0.6mm nozzle. And if you put a 0.6mm nozzle on the Bambu, it would print as much material but way faster.
So it is just faster, period. Except with multi material printing 2-5 materials.
For the Bambu Lab vs Prusa XL speed comparison (ruclips.net/video/3AB5zlnQukE/видео.html), make sure to change slicer settings so that the same amount of filament (in grams) is being printed by each printer. The +15% print time of the XL is partially due to the 7.5% more filament being extruded
I don’t understand that logic. I’d be happy to change my mind if you can justify that perspective. Here’s mine: The amount of material deposited per unit time is the volumetric flow rate, which is not what we’re discussing here. If you were to match this between the two by making the XL extrusions thinner or the Bambu extrusions thicker, the result would still be the same because the XL accelerates slower. What we are comparing is the sum total of the time required to get from point A to point B as the object is printed. Just because one squeezes out more material in that time doesn’t mean it has a higher print speed, it means the volumetric flow rate is higher.
@@ygk3d The amount of filament extruded is what tells you how many points A to point B you are having to do. The Bambu slicer setting reduces the total amount of moves therefore reducing the total amount of A to Bs. So if you match the weight of plastic printed you know you are at least doing the same amount of A to B moves. This is still a rough estimation. Just because you have the same weight that does not mean it is in the same places. If the perimeters are thicker vs the infill being slightly more dense it will be faster to print infill then perimeters for example. The incorrect assumption you made was that both slicers sliced the parts without changing the model.
Making the comparison with a .6 mm nozzle makes this problem more difficult. The best way to compare them is to use a .4 mm nozzle on the XL and slice the two models and compare the geometers until you have very similar moves. You don't want the sliced models to deviate much from each other. Then you use the weight to confirm they are printing the same amount. You also want to make sure the flow volumetric flow rates are the same throughout. That is what makes using a .6 mm nozzle hard to compare. Now you are certain that plastic is being laid down in the same places and they are both of equal amounts. Now it is all about speed.
You should go watch Robert Cowan's recent video on it. He uses the first methode while admitting it is not apples to apples and the XL and the Bambu come out to be very similar. It is still a better method then just slicing them both and not making the weight equal.
Side note: I originally wrote this using volume and weight interchangeably. This assumes that both printers will print with the same density. Depending on the material or water content this could not be the case. For most cases volume and weight can be directly correlated but it is more correct to say weight. Volume would be affected by changes made to the model.
@@Ender_Wiggin I appreciate the attempt to explain. Although, I still don’t see how that makes sense. Take, for example, a single line (one A to B), printed on two printers. Both printers take 10 seconds to complete the line, but the line is twice as thick on one printer than the other. By your logic, that printer has “faster print speeds” because it deposited more material per unit time?
@@ygk3d When you make the assumption that both lines are equal and don't change how much plastic is extruded i agree with you. If you were to change the sliced models so that one printer is extruding more (X1C) and/or the other printer (XL) is extruding less than both printer would print the single line with the same thickness. Here the advantough would be to the printer with a larger volumetric flow rate. That is why we should try and match the nozzles sizes to make the flow rate equal.
To put it into other words: Take, for example, a single line (one A to B), printed on two printers. You match the printed weight for both lines in the slicer. Both printers take 10 seconds to complete the line. The line is the same weight and very similar dimension. By my logic, the printers have equal print speeds but one printer has a larger volumetric flow rate whenever that is needed.
In your example, the printer is not being tested equally because one has double the volumetric flow rate. In most cases this would reduce the speed that it could travel. This is why we have to make sure that both printer are printing the same thing. If you look at the XL settings they had more walls and take slower turns compared to the Banbu settings. That is why you have to change print settings to make sure they print the same thing.
@@ygk3d You are right if the flow rates and speeds would be the same, the printer with the higher accelerations would be faster. But you can not just ignore the flow rate and or line width. I can give two examples.
1. On PrusaSlicer 2.7.0, 0.2 mm structural, prusa PLA, and XL 0.6 nozzle settings, max flow rate is limited to 15 mm^3/s. This limits the infill speed under 150 mm/s while the maximum speed would be 200 mm/s. So if you lowered the line width for infill or increased the maximum flow rate, point A to B time would decrease because speed would increase.
2. If one printer printed twice as thick line in the same time, it would need less lines to print the object so it would be faster. Try to make a cube in slicer and keep the infill percentage same but double the infill line thickness and see how much less lines it needs to do to make the same percentage of infill. Less lines, less accelerations, so faster time.
I guess these should favor the XL with the bigger nozzle...
So what you're saying is that the XL is going to be able to print almost as good as my old as shit Geeetech A10 lol in the next 12 months some time haha
I didn't know you could buy the Geeetech A10 with 5 tools 😉
wow wtf you are totaly right though.. a 12 and 13 minute bonkers benchy.. thats not far off from my ender 3.. id expect way faster honestly.. kinda strange and dissapointing to hear from prusa.. i really hope they give ya somethin that makes it worth it.. an update or upgrade or somethin.. that is the VERY least they could do!
Bamboo=flashy sports car... Prusa=pickup truck I like trucks to get the job done, but others like the thrill of 0-60 in 3 seconds...Pick what you like best.
Thank you for the video.
On the topic of speed XL vs X1C, you stated the alpaca takes 4:49 on the Prusa va 4:32 in the X1C.
Some have pointed out the difference in weight which is a valid point, but is this really a big of a deal? +17mins is not bad on a print that is almost 5h. I mean if it was a full hour or so I would say yeah that’s a problem.
But what you didn’t ask is how strong are the prints? Too fast = poor mechanical properties. That is HUGE and just because is not important to you it doesn’t mean it doesn’t count. I print mechanical parts, not trinkets.
On the other hand, have fun with Bambu labs selling your data to everyone and their mama. I need more intrusive apps like I need a random bill.
Cloud machines are a deal breaker. Same with Glowforge or anything similar.
The XL is getting there…. Let’s see how far they take it. Keep posting the videos.
Haters gonna hate...
Are you Canadian?
Through and through
By the time they fix this thing Bambu will have their own toolchanger
Its better but not good enough for the money it cost, you can have all the support in the world but if the printer at the price it is cant print perfectly whats the point, just because it says prusa big deal, prusa are falling behind and need to up there game which i know they can do they should not release product's that cant deliver with a promise that it will one day.
Still feels like a beta product. I cancelled my pre-order today :(
Joseph's ego is bigger than most!!! so give it a couple of Model up grades. But don't hold your breath for too long on this xl .........LOL!!!
about the only honest review at the start ..
If this printer was made by ANYBODY ELSE, it likely never would have gotten this much attention and fine-tuning, and probably would have been returned. PRUSA is good at making simple Cartesian bed-slingers and that's it. The XL is completely outside of their wheelhouse and it shows. Yes, it has tool changers, but the entire design is very obviously still half-baked. You can't release something like this at $4000 + shipping anymore and be successful.
Input shaper works by changing the acceleration curves, not current.
Acceleration curves are changed by varying current. Not voltage. Voltage has no bearing on stepper speed. Tell me what changes the acceleration curve?
If I’m not mistaken Taylor is a mechanical or electrical engineer. I’m not. All I know is what I read in Ti white papers about acceleration curves in regards to voltage and current.
What Jason said. Fundamentally motors only know current. They don’t understand acceleration. So at a basic level, it is the current you’re modulating. That translates to a different acceleration profile.
@@ygk3d input shaper affects acceleration curves directly. Current as an effect of that software layer.
It seems a lot of your issues are slicer settings. I think with a little more time and experience you’ll figure it out. You should note in your video that the Bambu and PRUSA are two completely different printers, but if you want to compare them that’s your choice, just know it exposes your inexperience comparing the two. Also tune into the 3D printing today podcast. They and many of us are way past prime towers and have figured out how to retract adequately up out of the melt zone.
It may not be the most logical comparison, but it's one many will make and are interested in. I am far from inexperienced ;). I'll check out the podcast - thanks for the tip.
its still not worrh the price, 3d printed parts and no enclosure and still SLOW
I'm so glad prusa is developing at a slow pace. In my mind this means they're not selling out, they're not expanding too quickly beyond their expertise and they don't have drastic changes as a company that put off half the fanbase.
If they don’t get with the program their competitors will each their lunch.
Lol. Going carefully is one thing. But what they did is another. Think how big they are. While they were developing it Bambu did 2 printers. Before they got input shaping, Bambu released 2 more printers, although one is derivative.
prusa fanboys coping HARD ONCE AGAIN 🤣🤣🤣 high school science project tier printer that is SLOW AF 🤣
"too little too late" bros got a 3000 plus dollar printer hes ready to give up on when i wont even give up on my 160 dollar ender neo v1 lmao
with that being said if you give up, send er my way so i would have some content to start makin some videos lol
you're young, you don't get it.. reality will teach you to honor contracts
@@chronokoks I dont understand your reply.. What i was saying was i see this guy giving up on a 3000 dollar printer when i wont even give up on a 160 dollar printer. If my contract is my bond and honor to my printer i think i have succeeded. So idk if your comment is directed towards me or the video creator...
@@Reds3DPrinting you don't understand it. You're some rando poor fk. Money has value, contract means if you buy something assembled, it should be properly assembled and tested. PROPERLY. Contract broken, you send the thing back You worked hard for your money so why shouldn't you get the value you worked hard for? You don't get it and you're a small brain. You're the type that will get cheated and sh%t on your whole life.
Thank you for your NON FAN BOY videos truely enjoy watching. (wish I had not dumped my shipping box)
My pleasure. Thanks for watching!
This was the most terrible printer I ever had.
1. Outdated software
2. No camera to monitor the print
3. Outdated hardware
4. 5 Toolhead Setup which does not print without an error. I tried it for 4 weeks and was not able to get the quality I knew from Bambulab.
5. No wiper for the hotends. Yes Prusa printers actually don’t wipe! This is an absolute joke and leaves a lot of mess on the print bed and the actually print itself. I had so many filament remainigs in the middle of my prints.
6. A missing wiper for the filaments is like driving a car without brakes. It’s embarrassing for Prusa sorry.
7. Comparing Prusa to Bambu printers is like a modern car against a horse wagon from the 18th century. I had to buy a Prusa printer before I understood how far ahead Bambu Printers are. Take any 300 dollar Bambu printer and it will outperform the Prusa XL flagship which costs thousands of dollars.
My concern is that Prusa will be dead in the next 5 years. Which is very bad for competition.
I could continue the list with 20 other showstopper for this printer. It’s just a very very bad printer.
I was able to send mine back to Prusa based on the 60 days return policy.
The only good point about this printer is the Prusa support. Those guys were awesome.
Oh and those guys who have 10 Prusa printers in their backround will never admit that they mad a very big mistake. They invested so much money and keep lying to themselves. They are too pride to admit that their printers suck, while Bambu has revolutionized the industry.
Jesus, my makeshift Klipper corexy is printing better and faster than that XL.
Thanks for the video. Please, please stop doing that thing where your voice starts to rattle at the end of every sentence.
Not sure what you’re referring to. Can you share a time code? Might just be my Canadian accent.
@@ygk3d litterally at the end of every long sentance, or the whole sentance if it's short.
I think it's called vocal fry.
Sorry for being personal, I do enjoy your content.
@@D4RKFiB3R Mhh... interesting. Didn't realize I did that. Will probably be a hard habit to break but I'll try to keep it in mind. Thanks!
@@ygk3d I'm sure it would be a hard habit to break, and really, screw me and my opinion.
You do you man.
It is crazy that people never seem to notice, though (I certainly never), until suddenly you do notice or it's pointed out, and then you can't stop hearing it whenever it's there.
And as you know, even people that do it themselves, don't realise.
It's quite an interesting phenomenon when you start reading about it.
I don't agree at all with some of the opinions regarding how someone is precived if they speak that way.
I just that now I cannot unhear it. But that really is a "me problem".
I think you all got robbed
Imo too little too late…..
NGL kinda disappointed in Prusa. There is a such a need for a XL printer that can print like an X1 Carbon but doesnt sound like this is it.
The XL prints like the X1 though. Just changed slicer settings. Download both slicers and see for yourself.
It's too little too late. Dynamic input shaper is confirmed to not be planned right now. Plus bambu more than likely has an xl competitor in the works. This printer is over valued for what it is.
Where did you see that it was “confirmed” ?
@@ygk3d I believe somewhere on GitHub. I remember seeing it in a discussion a few days ago.
Can't take your video seriously when your gauge of filament moisture uptake is that "it's freshly opened"… then you proceed to place the spool directly on the PrintDry heater element (which I own and have been using for years). Then you go on an excursion about how a heavy toolhead moves slower than a lighter toolhead and somehow it's Prusa's fault that it doesn't obey physics.
I acknowledged that the logic was flawed, hence why I dried it and tried again. The PrintDry works just fine like that by the way. The air inside it gets hot either way. I actually made no reference to the weight of the tool head. If weight is holding the Prusa back, they should make the tool head lighter.