How Combat works in BECMI Dungeons & Dragons - Learn to Play BECMI
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- ΠΠΏΡΠ±Π»ΠΈΠΊΠΎΠ²Π°Π½ΠΎ: 14 ΠΈΡΠ» 2024
- A beginners tutorial for players and DMs on BECMI Combat for Mentzer Basic Dungeons & Dragons - Basic D&D Red Box. Basic D&D Rules Cyclopedia
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Special thanks to Frank Mentzer, Jeff Easley, and Larry Elmore for their involvement in creating and illustrating the 1983 Basic D&D Red Box Set. This book has been a positive, life changing influence for me.
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TIME STAMPS
00:00 Combat in BECMI
01:52 Begin Combat RAW
02:44 Order of Events in Combat
03:33 Group Initiative
04:42 Movement
05:55 Attacking & Spellcasting
07:47 Fighting Withdrawal - Retreat
09:27 Next Round of Combat
10:28 Interrupted Spells
11:35 Turning Undead
13:13 Intentions Step
13:53 Movement when Casting Spells
14:40 Homebrew Combat Rules
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Player's Handbook: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/116578/DD-Basic-Set--Players-Manual-BECMI-ed-Basic?affiliate_id=964873
Rules Cyclopedia: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17171/DD-Rules-Cyclopedia-Basic?affiliate_id=964873
Awesome video! I am posting it in my campaign Discord. We play Rules Cyclopedia, and I have a complex combat encounter prepared to open our session with.
As for how I run combat...
- I hand wave Intentions. Sometimes it is useful, but usually we all forget about it.
- I prefer Group Initiative. There are times Individual initiative is useful, but for the most part the flow and pace is much quicker with Group Initiative.
- If Simultaneous, I run phase by phase starting with the players (players move, monsters move, player missile, etc). The effects of each phase are simultaneous, I just let players roll first and let them make first decisions.
- I also allow spellcasters to move. Sometimes intent to cast a spell was mentioned, usually in table talk during the previous round (as in "next round I will ..."). But I never hold them to that. As long as the character had not made a Missile attack, the can cast a spell if they got one. I also do Turn Undead in the Magic phase, as well as Items and any monster powers that are not specific to another phase.
- Writing out what I do, I see that there is no "spell disruption" component, unless it is Simultaneous and the caster gets hit by a missile. I am okay with that though.
- I do use the Retreat and Withdraw rules though. And my group *loves* getting all crunchy with Weapon Mastery and special maneuvers.
- As I mentioned, I am sharing this video with my group on our campaign's Discord server. I will give them each bonus xp for watching it, and a triple bonus if they leave a comment!
Hi Mark! Glad you enjoyed the video. Hooray! Reading through your bullet points, we are very similar in how we run combat. I love the way you run simultaneous action (going phase by phase) and think I will incorporate that into my own game. Great idea! AND... wow! THank you for sharing this with your Discord. I appreciate it! If the demand for BECMI videos continue, I'll keep cranking them out. My next plan was a 2nd and 3rd video on combat: one for the Players and one for the DMs and how they participate in combat.
Anyways, thank you again for sharing the video. Cheers!
Hey look itβs a Marko
Small world huh
(It is I, Nate!)
Nice break down of the combat. Always fun to see how things were done differently.
Thank you, my friend! I'm really enjoying taking a look back at my old system and creating the videos. Cheers!
Hey Wally, I forgot how different combat was for BECMI. The User losing a spell for being hit is awesome, lol. That is why the wizard always goes in the back of the formation. We usually put the thief near him or her for protection, like a bodyguard. There should be formation rules but maybe that is AD&D, we always blended the rules. These set of videos is going to be nothing but memory lane for me.
Thanks Wally you have a wonderful day!
Glad you are enjoying the series, Matt, thank you. I plan on having an extensive library of these at some point before I retire from RUclips... so, I have a long way to go, lol. But yeah, I would believe formation rules to be in AD&D, because I have never seen them in becmi. We played with a bit of a mix of AD&D as well, but I don't remember this.
And, yep.... protecting the magic-user was always a priority, for sure. That is why, as a DM, I loved throwing an occasional surprise encounter that snuck up on the party, lol.
Cheers and happy 2024!
This is still a thing in some form with concentration, though how it has worked is different in basically every edition. 3.5e, your opponent got a free attack at you if you tried to cast in melee, and if you took damage from it you had to roll or lose the spell. This also basically never happened because you could just move 5 feet without any attacks happening, then cast your spell.
Love the look of the old books, but I will have to stick with 5E, this old guy would get the rules confused. It was a very interesting video and brought up a lot of memories. As always love your videos.
Thank you, my friend. I appreciate the support, as always. Cheers!
The most glaring difference between this rule set and all future editions (I.e. anything AD&D 1 on) is the fact that you donβt have βphasesβ where different types of actions resolve. Also, from 3rd edition onward your intent didnβt have to be declared until your turn.
My character in the BECMI game I am in is a fairy who is as good with a bow as he is with magic, so the fact that the referee doesnβt ask us to declare actions makes my life a lot less tedious, lol.
Oh, and the other character I have is a sphinx, and abilities of supernatural origin (like the sphinx roar) resolve during the magic phase, even if they are largely close-range, so I have to make that decision (claw or roar) before anyone makes any melee attacks. Usually no big deal though.
Letting characters decide what they want to do when its actually their turn to act (like your fairy character with bow + spells), is exactly why I removed the intentions step in my game. Situations could change before its your turn and you might want to do something else, so it's nice to not be committed to a course of action. Thank you for the great comment and sharing your story. :-) Cheers!
Another player in marks campaign who commented below overall I enjoy the home brew changes mentions by you and that he implements such as casters being able to move and cast and I really enjoy the idea you bring up of switching weapons as a free action as that can be very useful for characters who maybe prefer missile but can still do ok in meele if forced into without losing a turn to attack since they had a bow or crossbow out also you will probably see a lot of people from his campaign if not all comment on this video he has bribed us with 9000 exp if we watch and comment on the video
9000?! That's a nice haul of XP. Hope that levels you up. :-) Thank you for watching. Cheers!
Really good movie with lots of examples. it makes it easier to understand the rules. I look forward to more movies like this. they are very educational. I don't use intention before a combat myself, but reaction which is described around encounters. I think that contributes to the tension around who starts the match.
thanks for a great job.
Glad you found this useful, thank you for watching. Cheers!
Thanks for the video. This was the first time I have heard about intentions. I like the idea that a spellcasterβs action could be disrupted. I think I will incorporate these ideas into my game. I also play in Mark Faulknerβs campaign and also noticed that his game style is very similar to yours. Iβm looking forward to future videos on combat and becmi. (Thormond).
Ah, nice. Mark said he was going to share the video. Very cool. π. While doing research, a lot of folks I talked to had never heard of intentions either. A lot of homebrewing of rules back in the day, for sure. Thank you for joining in on the conversation. Cheers!
Delighted to see more folks doing BECMI related videos lately! I've been playing since '83 and the Red Box, and running games nearly as long.
While I enjoy modern gaming (currently running a long standing PF2 campaign), I've really been missing the very different vibe to the older versions of D&D, and getting back to my roots! Planning to try and get my players on board to run some RC D&D when our current scenario wraps, and give them a taste of history, as well as a chance to kill Bargle, who endlessly deserves it! Game On!
Addendum: Since you asked, yes, I'd love to see you do some stuff regarding individual initiative, surprise, and a DM-focused combat vid, especially as I'm trying to figure out how I want to handle combat when I run BECMI (leaning towards group initiative ATM, but there are some nice bonuses for PCs of using individual, so I'm torn), so examples of the other way would I think be useful.
Glad you are enjoying the BECMI videos! My plan is to create an extensive playlist of BECMI tutorials, one video at a time. That way if someone wants to learn the game, they start of the beginning of the playlist and hit PLAY. That's the plan anyway, hope it works out, lol. But yeah, a few more channels are doing some BECMI stuff, BECMI Berserker is probably the best there is right now, he has a great channel.
I'm more modern gaming too, I play a ton of 5E, but now with our Game Master Round Table, I have the opportunity to run some BECMI games and its been fun. I'm also going to run 2 BECMI games at a convention in Lake Geneva in March. Really looking forward to it.
Be sure to let me know how your players like the BECMI game and if you haven't found it yet, there is a PDF of Castle Mistamere that someone put together for Levels 2 and 3 of the Kill Bargle game. A must have, for sure! I found it on a post in one of the BECMI facebook groups.
For my next videos, I want to do two more Combat. One for players on how to attack, damage, etc. And one for DMs on how to run a combat from the monster perspective. I'm not sure how I want to tackle those yet, so there might be a bit of a delay. After that, I want to do one for DMs on Running Encounters (including Surprise) and I still need to do videos on SPELLS and Weapons/Armor. I'll add individual initiative to the list... that's one I never used before, so I'll be doing some research.
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it. Cheers!
@@WallyDM That sounds like a great plan, and I will be here for it! I love Berserker's channel (his new look is boss!) and I do indeed have that Castle Mistamere pdf.
I've been poking around the BECMI groups, and Dragonsfoot forums over the past few weeks, and reading the Rules Cyclopedia. I never had it back in the day, as we made the mistake many other novice tables did, and thought the natural progression was from Basic to Advanced D&D, so ran a mish-mash for a bit, before figuring it out. I like the way the ruleset evolved, with the skill and weapon mastery rules, etc.
Thanks for putting in the time an effort making them! Game On!
I hope you had a great holiday and are feeling much better.
I did... and I am! Thank you, my friend. Hope you had a great season as well. Cheers!
Thanks Wally. Keep your series going buddy :)
Thank you, Fred! Believe it or not, I want to do two more videos on combat. One for the players and one for the DMs.
@@WallyDM I do believe you.
Great video! Really useful breakdown of the system
Thank you!
Great breakdown
Thank you!
Intentions sounds very tactical wargame, but it means you have to do something that might make no sense by the time you do it, I can see why they dropped it
Phased combat is also a hangover from D&D's roots
I am always amazed by how different the game is in earlier editions, but also how similar
This is a great perspective on the intentions step, thank you for sharing! I played becmi for quite a few years (up until 2001), so its been fun diving back into the system and reminiscing. Like you said, a lot of things different, but still similar with todays D&D. Great way to put it. Thank you for watching, cheers!
We never used fighting withdrawal, but IMHO retreat is fairly easy to handle.
Makes sense, for sure. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Wow! Really great video. Great job!
Thank you! Hoping to do more BECMI videos soon. :-) Cheers!
Excellent, informative vid.
Glad it helped! Additional information in Combat for Players and Combat for DMs are coming soon!
I would like to see a video on individual initiative because there are a fair amount of abilities that are completely pointless if you are using side based initiative. Also I feel it isn't a great idea to remove any way to stop someone from moving away during hand to hand. I know as someone who played a mystic with a heavy crossbow I would be impossible to deal with if I could never be engaged. Not to mention the poor fighters in full plate being kited by everyone with a ranged weapon. *Benny hill theme starts playing*
P.S. also from Mark's game
You know, that is a really good point. Even though we do not use mystics, I could still see a character with a crossbow and light armor being able to retreat and shoot, retreat and shoot, as long as they faster than the monster... never really thought of that before. All of my players recently have been low level and mostly focused on melee. Interesting. I might need to reconsider my position on this. Thank you for bringing it up!
Also... hope that 9000 xp helps! Cheers!
Excellent video. Thank you.
You bet! Glad you found it useful. Hope to have more BECMI videos soon. Cheers!
β@@WallyDMwatching again...
@@ekashotersen Oh, nice! Welcome back. π. I'm working on the next video in the series... spellcasting.
@@WallyDM good to know. I'm revising an unofficial translate of Rules Cyclopedia to my language. Unfortunately we can't publish and WotC don't have any interest on that and will never give us permission to do so. Just for fun.
We had to make that house rule that you don't lose your uncast spell when you get interrupted because it took away too much of the fun for the affected player(s).
Ya know, I agree with this 100%. Let the spellcasters do their thing. Cheers!
Cool π
Indeed. :-)
But eliminating Intentions also gets rid of the players chance to interupt an enemy spell caster.....
Yep! It sure does. π But, to be fair, I really don't use a lot of enemy spellcasters in my becmi games. Every once in a great while. Thank you for watching, cheers!
There are so many ways the game basically says, "screw you" if you want to be a magic-user.
~You need to move to get into position to cast a spell? Sure, but that is all you get to do this round. Basically, no attack for you.
~ You are in good position and decide to cast? Great, too bad the enemies won initiative and attack you before your turn. Not only do you not get to cast a spell, but you also lose the spell, because .... that seems fair. Basically, no attack for you.
~ You decide you need to be closer to the front so you can actually do something in a round? Too bad you get d4 hp aka a trap will kill you.
~ You want to learn more spells? You have to spend time and gold to do that, just like that fighter over there.... oh, wait never mind, he can swing his weapon every turn no matter what. Just found an axe +1, awesome! Equip it and spend gold to learn to use it... oh wait that is only for spells.
I could go on and on. Sure, if you get to level 15 then you will be a mighty and powerful magic-user, if you have the gold to learn new spells, create scrolls, etc.
I could go on and on. I always felt that the game hated magic-users. Basically, you want to play a magic-user? Sure, just be ready to sit around doing nothing while everyone else actually does things.
Valid points for sure, magic-users really did suck back then, unless they could survive to higher levels. But yeah, rules did seem to be geared more towards the melee fighters, you're not wrong. This is definitely one of the reasons when I run a BECMI game, I've taken out the intentions step and allow magic users to move. But, I think DMs could entice players to play wizards a bit more if they offer max hp at first level or waive the gold for new spells. All-in-all, yep, if you are playing rules as written, magic-users suck to play. But, if you can work with a DM that homebrews their rules, it might not be too bad. Thank you for watching. Cheers!
@@WallyDM Thanks for the reply! When you say, " I've taken out the intentions step and allow magic users to move." Do you mean before casting, after casting, or before and after - aka breaking up their movement?
@@jaybakata5566 Hmmm. I treat magic-users like everyone else. As stated in the final 1/3 of the video in my own personal Order of Events in Combat, I remove the Intentions step... meaning that everyone can decide what they want to do, when its time to do it. And, I allow everyone to use their movement during the movement step... Whether or not they are fighting, casting, throwing, shooting, turning, whatever. Everyone gets a chance to move.
I don't break up movement though. I still follow the Order of Events in Combat Chart which is, in order:
1. Initiative
2. Movement
3. Attacks/Spells/Turning
4. End Turn
Step 3, attacks go in the following order:
a. Missle Fire
b. Spells
c. Melee
So, basically, magic users get all the same benefits as the rest of the party with no chance of having their spells interrupted.
Hope this helps clear things up. Cheers!
@@WallyDM Super clear, thank you.
@@jaybakata5566 you bet. Hope it helps! :-)