Having played every edition over ...close to 30 years. BECMI has always triumphed as the most versatile, efficient & enjoyable version to play. Glorious tales (similar to the heros tale rpg) & settings.
I think that all of the editions have their own tones and things they do well. I've probably played more 2nd and 3rd Edition, but the BECMI rules have been the ones I've used most often to introduce people to the hobby.
Agreed! This is were I started, after watching "Mazes and Monsters" and deciding I *had* to play that game! It's always been my favourite. Yes, I liked 1st, 2nd and 3rd (particularly 3/3.5) but Basic (as we used to call it) has always had a special place in my heart. Are there things about it that are a little oversimplified (like the way races are classes)? Yes, but that's what house rules are for.
BECMI does have skills, they were introduced in Gazetteer 1: Grand Duchy of Karameikos (and every Gazetteer thereafter) and were included in the Rules Cyclopedia as standard. Also Demihumans could advance beyond their higher limits, but gained little compared to the human classes.
Thanks for letting me know. I only have the original Basic, Experts, Companion, Master and Immortals rules, so wasn't aware of this. But that was what this video was about, so perhaps if I pick up the Cyclopedia, it'll be time for another Rules Breakdown of it.
I try to answer as many as I can, but I do sometimes have absolutely nothing to say (which people who know me would probably tell you is a rarity). Cheers, much appreciated.
I've been playing since 1979. I don't find it clunky at all. If you start with the basic and proceed in order, it all goes together well. The Immortals were a bit more difficult until the revision in Wrath of the Immortals. It's most important to stress the basic books and onwards state these are guidelines, not hard rules like AD&D were as they were the tournament rules.
When I say clunky, I mean you're rolling a D100 for Thief abilities, D6 for Demihuman Abilities, except Halflings hiding outdoors which is a D10, for hitting and saving throws you're rolling a D20. Although after 42 years, I'm not surprised that these don't seem out of place to you, but it's just a bit bodged together (which is part of its charm). It strikes me every time I go back to an older version of D&D (pre-WotC), where I need to relearn the rules instead of just picking them up and going.
@@RPGGamer Every edition uses the same dice. With 5e every spell and ability uses different dice and even changes per level, same when it comes to barbarians and other classes. People have been playing 5e for years and still can't remember what damage dice they use at what level. If anything it's gotten more screwy. I've run it. It's a decent system but it is all over the place. Now if you'll excuse me a second, the monk over there needs to roll her 20 attacks in 6 seconds. Also using CR is a heck of a lot tougher in trying to create challenges until you remember the formula which changes at every party level.
That is one thing I don't like about the Rules Cyclopedia -- it has mostly the same rules but putting in everything at once, including optional rules and rules from supplements that were never in the boxed sets, makes it seem more complicated and harder to learn than in should be. I hides how simple it was to learn when you learned from the basic set and learned more in order as you advanced.
I actually started with AD&D (1st edition), but this was the first edition I owned. Fantastic stuff and I appreciate more and more over the years, how it taught us how to play and run RPG's as the boxes were released.
But Thaco wasn't introduced until the Masters set, so if you're playing through the boxes, then you wouldn't see them until you're level 26+, and my Rules Breakdown videos are only supposed to cover your first couple of sessions.
I'm actually just about to start a new BECMI campaign. I add a few house rules which make races and classes separate things and I import the skill system from 3rd rather than using the system presented in the Gazeteers, which feel tacked on as did the non weapon proficiencies in 1st Ed (basically because they were). Other than that I use the system as set out.
Sounds great. the skill system is my favourite part of 3e (which itself is my favourite edition), so importing it I can totally get behind, while keeping the flavour of BECMI. Good luck, and please let me know how it goes.
I wouldn't call newer ediitons "improvement". It's just that a group of people with different mind set and values from the people who originally produced, say, DND, made their attempt to create a new ediiton. Newer doesn't equal better, and I know lot's of people who enjoy older ediitons than 3e (which is basically the beginning of the end when roleplay wa replaced with "roll a skill") or God forbid 5e, and find them so much better. And I don't speak about grognards or old-timers, just a new crowd of people who gravitate from being hero (3e) or superhero (5e) to underdogs trying to make a living and a name in a harsh world of original DND. But to each his own, I guess.
Everybody is welcome to their opinion. Having gone back and played a bunch of basic D&D, and 1st Edition AD&D, I can say I had a whole load of fun, but was darn glad that they were only one shots and I didn't have to keep playing them. It was nice to have some more options available to me in returning to 5e instead of being pigeonholed by the classes in the earlier editions.
Always loved this version despite its clunkiness. The removal of THAC0 in 3rd edition was very welcome, as was the simplification of the Saving Throws, which, while very thematic, were hard to apply to every situation (IIRC you had to roll against Wands when you had rocks falling over your head, for some reason. Both 3rd and 5th editions are fine in that regard). And I never liked rolling for Hit Points when going up a level, as there was a considerable chance of rolling a 1 or a 2. Of course we would re-roll if that happened, but the rules should take possibility into consideration and give you a different method, like rolling 3D6 and have you check up a table or just give you a flat number already, to which you would add your Con bonus. Or just simply add your Con/2. AD&D in comparison was too complicated for my tastes.
THACO was actually a device for the DM to use to lessen the use 9f mechanical terms. All the players had to do was give a number. It doesn't work though because everyone still talks mechanics. I roll a 5, add 10 for this and 7 for that. 5e is a good storyteller version but it's broke as heck. These were literally guidelines that could be altered. Don't count 1 on hp rolls. Roll 4d6 and take the highest 3 for stats. It always came down to someone not reading the forwards and introduction. There isn't anything here more clunky than 5e armor.
100% agree, there's a lot to love here, but 3e simplified the game so much. As for hit points, we've pretty much always gone with the average for your dice, odd and even levels (rounding up on odd, rounding down on even), and still work it that way to this day.
5th edition to me is a love letter to basic and 1rst ed AD&D it takes most of the basic rules with AD*Ds versatility and adds in a lot of QOL improvements in skills and proficiency that make characters better, all told lots of fun
I agree, but would take your statement back to 3rd Edition, which really went back to basics and improved and streamlined the system, and 5e is very much a continued improvement of that.
Outside the scope of this series, but for BECMI D&D it's relatively easy. And relatively similar to Wizards in newer editions. Every spell caster gets so many spell slots at each level as recorded in the class description. These spell slots are split into levels of their own. Into those slots the spell caster can memorise Spells of the same level as the slot, and the spells once cast leave the spell slot empty until the next day. The effects of each spell is unique and documented in the rulebook. Hope that helps.
Having played every edition over ...close to 30 years. BECMI has always triumphed as the most versatile, efficient & enjoyable version to play. Glorious tales (similar to the heros tale rpg) & settings.
I think that all of the editions have their own tones and things they do well. I've probably played more 2nd and 3rd Edition, but the BECMI rules have been the ones I've used most often to introduce people to the hobby.
Agreed! This is were I started, after watching "Mazes and Monsters" and deciding I *had* to play that game! It's always been my favourite. Yes, I liked 1st, 2nd and 3rd (particularly 3/3.5) but Basic (as we used to call it) has always had a special place in my heart. Are there things about it that are a little oversimplified (like the way races are classes)? Yes, but that's what house rules are for.
BECMI does have skills, they were introduced in Gazetteer 1: Grand Duchy of Karameikos (and every Gazetteer thereafter) and were included in the Rules Cyclopedia as standard. Also Demihumans could advance beyond their higher limits, but gained little compared to the human classes.
Thanks for letting me know. I only have the original Basic, Experts, Companion, Master and Immortals rules, so wasn't aware of this. But that was what this video was about, so perhaps if I pick up the Cyclopedia, it'll be time for another Rules Breakdown of it.
Rules cyclopedia is available on Drive thru rpg as a reprints. Very expensive if you get the original. You can also get the gazetters on reprint.
I appreciate creators who respond to all those who comment on their videos. Subscribed.
I try to answer as many as I can, but I do sometimes have absolutely nothing to say (which people who know me would probably tell you is a rarity). Cheers, much appreciated.
I've been playing since 1979. I don't find it clunky at all. If you start with the basic and proceed in order, it all goes together well. The Immortals were a bit more difficult until the revision in Wrath of the Immortals. It's most important to stress the basic books and onwards state these are guidelines, not hard rules like AD&D were as they were the tournament rules.
When I say clunky, I mean you're rolling a D100 for Thief abilities, D6 for Demihuman Abilities, except Halflings hiding outdoors which is a D10, for hitting and saving throws you're rolling a D20. Although after 42 years, I'm not surprised that these don't seem out of place to you, but it's just a bit bodged together (which is part of its charm). It strikes me every time I go back to an older version of D&D (pre-WotC), where I need to relearn the rules instead of just picking them up and going.
@@RPGGamer Every edition uses the same dice. With 5e every spell and ability uses different dice and even changes per level, same when it comes to barbarians and other classes. People have been playing 5e for years and still can't remember what damage dice they use at what level. If anything it's gotten more screwy. I've run it. It's a decent system but it is all over the place. Now if you'll excuse me a second, the monk over there needs to roll her 20 attacks in 6 seconds. Also using CR is a heck of a lot tougher in trying to create challenges until you remember the formula which changes at every party level.
That is one thing I don't like about the Rules Cyclopedia -- it has mostly the same rules but putting in everything at once, including optional rules and rules from supplements that were never in the boxed sets, makes it seem more complicated and harder to learn than in should be. I hides how simple it was to learn when you learned from the basic set and learned more in order as you advanced.
Agreed
Maybe one day such a rule book will be housed in a museum, and not a shelf.
They may be somewhere. Hasbro itself has had a museum no one knows about. That's also why many of us collect and save them.
There's might be one day, but like many games they tend to be seen as disposable rather than something to be remembered and treasured.
This is where I started with basic.
I actually started with AD&D (1st edition), but this was the first edition I owned. Fantastic stuff and I appreciate more and more over the years, how it taught us how to play and run RPG's as the boxes were released.
You don't need to use to hit tables, the
Thac0 rule handles that nicely.
But Thaco wasn't introduced until the Masters set, so if you're playing through the boxes, then you wouldn't see them until you're level 26+, and my Rules Breakdown videos are only supposed to cover your first couple of sessions.
In this video, the Companion Set books look like the same blue colour as the Expert set book.
It's weird how my camera refused to pick up the colour correctly for that one box set.
I'm actually just about to start a new BECMI campaign. I add a few house rules which make races and classes separate things and I import the skill system from 3rd rather than using the system presented in the Gazeteers, which feel tacked on as did the non weapon proficiencies in 1st Ed (basically because they were). Other than that I use the system as set out.
Sounds great. the skill system is my favourite part of 3e (which itself is my favourite edition), so importing it I can totally get behind, while keeping the flavour of BECMI.
Good luck, and please let me know how it goes.
@@RPGGamer Thanks mate, will do.
I wouldn't call newer ediitons "improvement".
It's just that a group of people with different mind set and values from the people who originally produced, say, DND, made their attempt to create a new ediiton.
Newer doesn't equal better, and I know lot's of people who enjoy older ediitons than 3e (which is basically the beginning of the end when roleplay wa replaced with "roll a skill") or God forbid 5e, and find them so much better.
And I don't speak about grognards or old-timers, just a new crowd of people who gravitate from being hero (3e) or superhero (5e) to underdogs trying to make a living and a name in a harsh world of original DND.
But to each his own, I guess.
Everybody is welcome to their opinion.
Having gone back and played a bunch of basic D&D, and 1st Edition AD&D, I can say I had a whole load of fun, but was darn glad that they were only one shots and I didn't have to keep playing them. It was nice to have some more options available to me in returning to 5e instead of being pigeonholed by the classes in the earlier editions.
Always loved this version despite its clunkiness. The removal of THAC0 in 3rd edition was very welcome, as was the simplification of the Saving Throws, which, while very thematic, were hard to apply to every situation (IIRC you had to roll against Wands when you had rocks falling over your head, for some reason. Both 3rd and 5th editions are fine in that regard).
And I never liked rolling for Hit Points when going up a level, as there was a considerable chance of rolling a 1 or a 2. Of course we would re-roll if that happened, but the rules should take possibility into consideration and give you a different method, like rolling 3D6 and have you check up a table or just give you a flat number already, to which you would add your Con bonus. Or just simply add your Con/2.
AD&D in comparison was too complicated for my tastes.
THACO was actually a device for the DM to use to lessen the use 9f mechanical terms. All the players had to do was give a number. It doesn't work though because everyone still talks mechanics. I roll a 5, add 10 for this and 7 for that. 5e is a good storyteller version but it's broke as heck.
These were literally guidelines that could be altered. Don't count 1 on hp rolls. Roll 4d6 and take the highest 3 for stats. It always came down to someone not reading the forwards and introduction. There isn't anything here more clunky than 5e armor.
@@timd4524 I haven't played much of 5e. What's clunky about the armor?
100% agree, there's a lot to love here, but 3e simplified the game so much.
As for hit points, we've pretty much always gone with the average for your dice, odd and even levels (rounding up on odd, rounding down on even), and still work it that way to this day.
5th edition to me is a love letter to basic and 1rst ed AD&D it takes most of the basic rules with AD*Ds versatility and adds in a lot of QOL improvements in skills and proficiency that make characters better, all told lots of fun
I agree, but would take your statement back to 3rd Edition, which really went back to basics and improved and streamlined the system, and 5e is very much a continued improvement of that.
How do spells work?
Outside the scope of this series, but for BECMI D&D it's relatively easy. And relatively similar to Wizards in newer editions.
Every spell caster gets so many spell slots at each level as recorded in the class description. These spell slots are split into levels of their own.
Into those slots the spell caster can memorise Spells of the same level as the slot, and the spells once cast leave the spell slot empty until the next day.
The effects of each spell is unique and documented in the rulebook.
Hope that helps.