In today's America, the #1 training anyone can get is how best to avoid a confrontation in the first place. Secondary would be how to fight your way AWAY should you fail at #1. I think the trainers who master a course with this philosophy will remain relevant.
Whenever I listen to these two remarkable men I feel like I sitting on the porch just listening to them! Such an enormous amount of knowledge! To me this is my main gun channel! Plus, I'm an old gun guy myself! Best to ya',,,,HAPPY NEW YEAR!
If you look at the odds of you being involved in a defensive shooting and combine that with the statistics regarding rounds needed to stop the threat, you can come to the conclusion that; the caliber, capacity, and brand of gun is far less important than the fact that you do carry a firearm and can deploy and use whatever it is.
I think about it regionally: I live in Northern Arizona (rural). A 1911 or revolver would be alright, as far as capacity, in this area. If I lived in an urban area I would want more capacity. Just some ideas...
I also wonder how many people that are successful in a defensive shooting encounter every year are at the range 3 or 4 times a week trying to shave a hundredth of a second off their par time, yet that seems all the rage these days. In the training industry the "old hats" who can"t empty a 15 round magazine at a steel plate in 3 seconds are going by the wayside.
As an old guy just starting to collect some handguns and others firearms, I am in AWE at the knowledge and diversity. Thank you both for sharing and passing your wisdom and experiences to others!
Damn, I love Hackathorn. In 14 minutes he has succeeded in pissing off the tattoo, muscled up, tacticool operators who insist on "running" a whizbang operator pistol aimed at their cajones so they can go around the corner to get a gallon of milk.
I love him too and appreciate his perspective. For me I only get to defend my life, and the life of my wife and kids, with what I have on me. We don’t get to choose when evil strikes. If I’m not printing then I get to choose whatever I want to go get a gallon of milk, which is going to be a bigger gun. And he can carry his 8+1 capacity fancy Commander 1911 on his hip, or a 6 shot revolver. I will go to my grave supporting his right to do so, even if he doesn’t support mine.
Very informative. As a fellow Boomer in my mid 70s I agreed w/everything said here, to include the red dot craze. I don’t have a red dot on any of my guns b/c of the three real world on duty shootings experienced in my 30 yrs.
Ken Hackathorn is a pot of gold. His knowledge, experience and wisdom are absolutely priceless. When he speaks, shut your damn mouth and listen closely.
I have one of the first Sig P320s. It was my first pistol. I tried a few grips with different stippling including the x carry grip. I could not shoot well it. The Wilson Combat Grip is truly a game changer. It seemed tailored for my old hands. This is not a standard P320 grip with some mods. The WC P320 grip is wonderfuly ergonomic. Thank you Wilson Combat for your R&D and a great product.
I have Wilson grips on all my 320's, and I'm very thankful that Wilson has grip models for the M17/M18 with manual safeties... hardly anyone else does. My favorite is the smaller Wilson compact-size grip (reduces the mag capacity by a couple rounds) that I use on my M18. This makes the M18 G19-sized, which is just about perfect. I treat my 320's like a Browning Hi Power, and don't point them loaded with the safety off at my "junk".
I'm happy that anyone has ANY kind of gun whether it's a revolver or a semi-auto. But for my senior lady hands, it's semi-auto every time all the time.
If you ever get to the point where you have reduced hand strength you might look into the Smith & Wesson EZ series of pistols. They seem to be a big hit.
@@JustDefense , yes, the EZ guns are great. Even young female students who show up to basic pistol class have an EZ 380 or 9 mm with them. I'm sure I'll get to that point someday, but right now my Glock 19 and my Glock 42 still work for me. Just not one handed. For that I would have to switch to my TX22. Not saying it's ideal, but the crack of a 22 long rifle is actually pretty impressive and if I just had one working hand...
@@JustDefense , second comment. It's not racking the slide that is difficult, it's the easier semi-auto trigger pull that I love. I've never been able to fire a revolver with just one finger. I have to use the index finger of both hands to pull those triggers back. So that's a deal breaker along with the limited round count.
Mr Ayoob, Sir, I have followed and benefitted from your knowledge for decades, in printed articles, and now this format. It has been passed to my daughter, and now my grandson, who serves in the US Navy. Both my daughter and myself practice EDC. Mine is a Sig GSR 1911 .45 with two extra mags. You Sir are a wealth of information and knowledge and second only to Col, Jeff Cooper in my hero class. At 71 yrs of age, you still teach me. THANK YOU, Sir!!!
Bill and Ken are a huge vat of gun knowledge. Throw LAV in there, and you have three guys who are national treasures. I really appreciated this episode. Great insights. Thank you Mr. Wilson and Mr. Hackathorn.
I have to say, the fact that you shared info on new trends in the entire industry and not just Wilson Combat has me really looking at a Wilson Combat for my next firearm. Integrity is worth everything. Thank you gentlemen
I’ve been exclusively shooting 22lr. Recoil management is basically nonexistent, but it still gives me enough trigger time to maintain some proficiency. It’s just too expensive for me to shoot 500 rounds of 9mm these days.
You're part of a great big club right now! I have mostly shot my Taurus TX22 for the last year and a half. Frankly, I love those 16 rounds and they all go in pretty much the same place because of the lack of recoil. When I take my dog out last thing at night, I have that TX22 because it's the only gun at my age that I can shoot pain free with one hand, and .22 actually has a nice little crack when you shoot it. It's enough to scare away coyotes and things that might tangle with my baby..
@@nmr6988 I’ve primarily been shooting my S&W Model 617 with a red dot sight. I usually do plate rack drills at 25 yards. I don’t try to be fast, I just try to be accurate. I’ve become a big fan of the 22lr.
@@mikem2132 I like your plan. Right now I could only dream of doing plate rack drills... Where I currently live there are only indoor ranges unless you are very well off. Then you can pay the membership fee to some of the very very nice outdoor ranges. Moving home to Texas in a few months and it's just the opposite. Most ranges are outdoor. I can't wait!
@@nmr6988 I live in Alabama, it’s $160 for an annual membership at my range. I love an outdoor range, it’s so peaceful! It’s not just firearms proficiency, it’s also recreation. Plate rack drills with my Henry Golden Boy that’s just makes me happy.
A couple years ago, I bought a Gen5 G19 MOS, put an SRO on it, shot it a few times and heard many people say “you won’t go back to irons” That being said, it’s the only RDS gun in my safe and I have purchased quite a few guns since then, none have a red dot on them. The other argument is “you got a RDS on your rifle, might as well have one in your pistol” or something to that effect. I think that’s wrong in my opinion, rifles are different than handguns, apples/oranges etc. Not bragging, but when it comes to guns, for me, money is no object. So price is not an issue or me. I just don’t “need” a RDS on my carry gun(s) my irons will work fine at 10yrds and in, that’s how I train/practice. The information in this video is real, informative, and priceless in today’s new world of firearms ownership.
I have been a LE firearms instructor with my dept since 2007. Ken is spot on. I tell officers your most likely engagement scenario is 8yrds and in. I own and train with Sigs, HK's, Colts, S&W's Glocks and a WC EDC X9. I take continuous ribbing as my daily carry is a snub nose S&W mod 66 with 38spl+p and I practice 3-7yard point shooting center mass. I will put my targets up against any red dot shooter any day
Revolvers may come back in popularity. I have a Ruger SP101 3 inch that I will never sell even though I never carry it. Five shots does not set well with me since the bad guys travel in a pack like wild dogs. I have metal framed and polymer framed hand guns and love them both, polymer is a little easier to carry.
I just sold my Glock 23 gen 5 and bought a full sized 1911 with a rail in 45 auto. I bought two Tripp research cobra mags and will be brushing back up on using that system. Metal guns will on gain popularity because of the way they make you feel.
I don't think revolvers will come back strong unless they find a way to make them cheaper. With few exceptions, nowadays only cheap revolvers are cheap revolvers if you know what I mean. When you can pickup a flagship model semi-auto for under $500, it makes the idea of buying a revolver abit salty to alot of people.
Thanks so much for the no BS commentary! But then I’m old. 😆. I shoot RD sights and irons; raised on irons. Marine Corps trained on irons. Ken, your dead on with your comment about the round count to get combat proficient on both. 100 percent. Thanks again for your channel.
I love my aiwb and I’m not changing, but I respect Hawthorn’s stance. AIWB seemed a fad for some time, but I really do think it is a good carry position.
If anything will teach you great trigger discipline, it’s carrying AIWB. If you mess up it’s your junk/femoral artery on the line. All jokes aside, I’ve carried at 1 o’clock for 6 years and I think it’s the best for me. Less printing issues, less worrying bending over and showing the gun, and a *lot* smoother draw stroke. It’s not for everyone but it suits me well.
Most of 'em are stashed in nightstand drawers. They're gonna be filtering into the used like new never fired market like Dirty Harry 44s for years to come.
Red dots are awesome for dry firing. I don't use them, they're slow, obnoxious, and too much BS to worry about. but they helped me tremendously see what my trigger finger and grip was doing wrong.
Save a few bucks and get the Mantis X system for dry firing. It records and shows even the smallest movement of the gun when you practice dry firing. Great training device for perfecting your trigger pull.
I couldn't agree more with what was stated in this session. This is true with red dots. They have a ways to go. They don't make you a better a shooter. Remember the basics and the fundamentals.
Thanks Ken I was feeling kind of low about taking the red dot off of my pistol. I never was that cool anyway. 😆. I hope if wilson is going to come up with aftermarket grips for the p365 they don't forget about the p365xl with manual safety.
I used to do the website for a friend of mine that taught defensive pistol & CCW classes and a couple things killed his business. One was going to permitless carry killed 75% of his business overnight. The next was the internet killing a lot of the small mom & pop gun stores that used to send him business. They were replaced by combo ranges & stores that sent their customers to their own classes. I bought just a .22 rifle at one of these places because they had a unicorn on the shelf that I had been looking for and they threw in a free class. So I took their intro to competition class as they held IDPA and a 2-gun match that I was interested. Class was 1 hour of rules like how to observe the 180, etc. and 3 hours of "you need to buy all this other crap in our store in order to even hope of being good like our sponsored shop employees". It worked. I saw about half the class out in the shop after buying an odd mix of Condor & HSGI stuff because that's what they sold.
Really enjoyed the podcast , I'm an older guy and I've never been one to jump on the tactical stuff in EDC mode however it can be a little fun at the range, functional clothing, but my ideal of tacti-cool is a Desert Eagle 50 with comp. But I'm more the eagle setting in a restaurant facing the door pretending I'm blind, never stair , just aware !
I completely understand your position on gear, Mr. Hackathorn. I was trained with the mindset that you "train with the gear that you use". I do not have a CCW. But if something goes bump in the night, I have all of my gear on one belt.. Holster, mags, light, CS spray, etc.. And I do not have to grab all of my gear. All my gear is on one belt. Thnx.
The biggest advantage I have with a red dot for me is over coming my cross eye dominance problem. I can draw and not have to close one eye to hit a target. With that said I do have non red dot guns. Particularly the beretta 92.
There is nothing like the voice of genuine EXPERIENCE! And these gentlemen have it in great abundance. And you just cannot fake real experience. I am glad that I subscribed to Wilson Combat, thank you so much good sirs. This was an excellent video. A Safe, Healthy, Happy, & Very Blessed New Year To Everyone!
Amen. I have roughly 30 years of combat arms and urban law enforcement experience. I'm tired of the tacti cool dudes with lights and lasers etc... Most people are well served by a J frame in an easily accessible location. Low key.
@@orbeclipse1 I did not. They weren't a thing yet. I retired in 2007. I might have had one if available. Although, I like the idea of having a striking weapon (long flashlight) in my non gun hand when clearing a building. I do not have one on any of my edc guns. Reason? Won't need it when out and about. At home, don't want to reveal my position to a yet to be located suspect. Unlikely, this will happen given my location and dogs anyway.
Wilson combat. You are fantastic. Tremendous information. Good for old geezers. Good for people starting out. Pray to God people like you stay the course.
Absolutely 100% spot on about modern “instruction”. These two know more about training and hardware than the top 50 tattoo/beard/kydex/appendix guys combined. Great info here.
I totally agree, I can't stand all the Tacticool BS but I don't understand the hate for Kydex and appendix carry beyond the fact that it's just not of their time. If you get a decent kydex holster, it will pop on and off your belt so easily when you want it to, but it's extremely secure when you don't. The biggest complaint I hear from people in regards to appendix carry is that when you re holster the firearm there's a risk of you shooting yourself, but all you have to do is pop the holster off, re holster the firearm off body, and then pop the holstered firearm back on. Kydex holsters also make for an excellent way of safely storing your chambered firearm with the trigger and action covered, especially if you don't have kids. In the hot summer it's super easy to carry a micro compact double stack in the appendix with shorts and a t-shirt.
I agree with Ken 100%, Blackwater Fever. Spent 21 years of 32 years in tier 1 units and we constantly attempted to reduce our equipment. Now I see videos of trainers with plate carriers, helmets etc. Shoot, shoot and shoot more. Have someone watch you to give constructive criticism on efficiencies. Accuracy is #1 then build speed without reducing accuracy.
I was never a fan of appendix carry, but after 2 back surgeries, strong side carry became painful for me. It aggravated my back and right hip pain. So I bought an appendix holster for my 365 and really made an effort to carry it in that fashion. To my surprise I found it quite comfortable. I now have appendix holsters for 3 different guns, one of which is a full size, 18 round, red dot sighted pistol. I've found I can carry it all day very comfortably. Granted, it's not for a beginning shooter. You must have finger discipline and slow, deliberate re-holstering technique. But it works for me.
Same. Its kinda cool that gun rights/knowledge is one of tge the clearest examples of passing the metaphorical torch from one generation to the next. And it's alive and well..
I am 75. Been shooting since age 15. Started with a 1911. Former military and contractor. Have tried red dots on a Glock 17 and on a 9mm Sig 320 X. I also have both pistols with open sights. I carry daily for self defense. I prefer both pistols without the red dot.
Good call on bringing up the Laugo Alien. I've wondered for a while if duty guns in this style would be the future, it would (in theory) interface with the red dot trend much better than slide mounted. We'll see.
I personally like iron sights. I want simple, reliable, and minimalistic for my handguns. I don't want to rely on finding a battery in the middle of something happening. I don't have a problem with polymer or steel guns. I've had both and it doesn't matter as long as it works. Again, just my opinion. I've never agreed with the tacticool group. It's all wasted energy and ego getting in the way of your own God given capability to be proficient.
I had been skipping by this video for a couple of days, but I'm glad I finally stopped to watch it. I've been pistol shopping this week, and wanted something with with a red dot already mounted, or picking up a red dot to mount on my Glock 19 MOS. You guys make perfect sense on the subject of red dots, and I'm rethinking the whole red dot thing now. Thank you guys for having and sharing this conversation.
Super happy that I took the time to listen to this segment. In a situation that would call for a tool of need; you’re still going to fall back on your most reactive impulse. For me that’s fine day my front side. Probably no matter how long I train with a red dot. Two words; night sights 😉
GREAT STUFF GENTLEMEN. 👏👏👏. I carry a Wilson Combat 45. I carry the weapon for protection. I think I will stay with the good old iron sights. One other point I’d like to make, who was it that said many years back, “beware of the one gun man”. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK……………..
I deeply respect Wilson and Hackathorn, and this is a great channel. They are both better shooters than I will ever be and know more about shooting than I will ever know. Having said that, I think they discount the value of red dots for the average shooter, largely because they are all-world shooters. I believe Mr. Hackathorn when he says he can shoot irons as well as a red dot out to 15 yards. I am an average shooter with irons out to 15 yards. Put a red dot on my pistol and I become a nearly excellent shooter out to 15 yards. My group sizes get cut in half, and my accuracy at speed increases tremendously. And it only took me about 2 hours of dry fire and a mag at the range to pick up the dot. Red dots are the future, and honestly they are the present, too.
Man, I couldn’t agree more on every topic these two legends discussed. Everything from Red Dots being over-rated, the tacticool wannabes, to the unfortunate direction the firearms market is going. THANK YOU for telling it like it is, and not being PC. I’m confident there will be many butt-hurt individuals after watching this video. And yes, the Sig P365 is a fantastic handgun!
Hugely addictive to Mr Ken’s, Mas and Bill’s knowledge and opinion on a whole lot of guns stuff, but never ever heard anything about CZ’s pistol products. Interested why?
Enjoyed watching this video again. So much to learn from these men. I'm an old gun fart myself at 68. Always held the 1911 closest to my heart and was always a never own a 9 mm guy. My EDC is a Sig P320 in 9 mm. Never say never.
I love these guys, that’s where you go when u need the real deal. I started out in the Military, and did a stint with the DOD. I’m happy doing what I’m doing now, teaching DTAC and MMA to other PMC’s. The transition sucked but you gotta jump in with two feet and 𝚃𝙲𝙱‼️
RM 380 has been my pistol from the start. Crimson Trace added red laser. One for me, one for the wife. Added Browning 1911-380, which I have left as an open sight weapon. Also, just got a Remington R1 Carry in .45 ACP. I have not had an opportunity to yet put many rounds through it. Getting over Covid-19 and will turn 69 in three weeks. Hoping my new year will be better than this last few weeks. God bless for a better 2022 and thanks for good insights, guys.
You guys are trying to piss some people off lol! I like my red dots just because i can stay target focused but i still like irons also so it doesn't really matter to me! I will shoot whatever i get handed to me just fine! But i do dry fire a few times and shoot every week around 50 to 100 rounds at the least. Thanks guys for everything you do!
I appreciate the perspective and point of view. I’m with y’all. I like red dots and optics but on my carry gun I still do iron sights. Also on my AR I have irons and I can still reach out to two hundred with no issues. I don’t see myself having to use it to that range anyway. I just like to hear what you guys think and watch all the episodes. Thanks.
Co-witness sights are fine. (I recommend Dawson). But having to look through the glass is still not as fast as plain open sights. Looking for a red dot that is not there and then having to transition to open sights takes time.
Practic daily with it just by pushing it out for sight picture. I can't live without my holosun 507c.....hated it at first..... Almost took it off my gun and sold it but a buddy talked me into keeping it and gave me proper training and advice and it stuck. With the holosun you can switch the sight picture from dot to circle to big circle dot and the big circle dot helps EXTREMELY WELL with finding perfect sight picture each time.
Prediction: Springfield Armory are going to have a hit as soon as they debug their SA-35. Which begs the question: Bill, why doesn't WC offer a HP35 made to the level of quality you guys are capable of? You are doing a fantastic job on 1911's, Beretta 92's etc. so making a version of the HP35 seems so obvious, and I am absolutely convinced there is a ready market for this platform. You're a gun guy, you like a classic platform, so be good to yourself (and the rest of us) and just do it. Best wishes for the new year.
By far my favorite channel! Bill Wilson was extremely wise to bring in Ken Hackathon.
Absolutely !!!!
In today's America, the #1 training anyone can get is how best to avoid a confrontation in the first place. Secondary would be how to fight your way AWAY should you fail at #1. I think the trainers who master a course with this philosophy will remain relevant.
Under rated comment. This is spot on. Just ask Kyle Rittenhouse or George Zimmerman.
Whenever I listen to these two remarkable men I feel like I sitting on the porch just listening to them! Such an enormous amount of knowledge! To me this is my main gun channel! Plus, I'm an old gun guy myself!
Best to ya',,,,HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Totally agree. These guys have a wealth of knowledge that they define the term “ subject matter expert” wouldn’t you say.
I totally agree with just walking away. I'm a former LEO and a former manager of a gun shop both I got tired of dealing with meatheads
I must be becoming an old timer. I agree with these guys 100%
Agreed completely
You're not the only one.
@@sergionatali3071 I’m right there with you Sergio, feeling older by the day…
I dont agree with all of their conclusions, but I find their old timer perspective very useful.
I'm really starting to like the real talk content from this channel.
Truth
If you look at the odds of you being involved in a defensive shooting and combine that with the statistics regarding rounds needed to stop the threat, you can come to the conclusion that; the caliber, capacity, and brand of gun is far less important than the fact that you do carry a firearm and can deploy and use whatever it is.
Awesome point friend 👌
Truth dart M E!
I think about it regionally: I live in Northern Arizona (rural). A 1911 or revolver would be alright, as far as capacity, in this area. If I lived in an urban area I would want more capacity. Just some ideas...
I also wonder how many people that are successful in a defensive shooting encounter every year are at the range 3 or 4 times a week trying to shave a hundredth of a second off their par time, yet that seems all the rage these days. In the training industry the "old hats" who can"t empty a 15 round magazine at a steel plate in 3 seconds are going by the wayside.
👏👏👏👏👏🍻🇺🇸I agree 100%
LETS GO BRANDON 👏👏👏👏
Hackathorn is a true gem. I have been a Leo 10 years and worked in gun store for 4 years and he’s 100% right!!!! I love that guy.
The size of a King James Bible pointed at your junk. That has got to be one of the greatest lines I've ever heard Ken. I love it you're dead on.
Ken, Bill, and Massad are three of my favorites to listen to! A wealth of knowledge between them.
Absolutely feel the same way and agree totally with your comment.
I could listen to these fellas all day long, thank you guys
As an old guy just starting to collect some handguns and others firearms, I am in AWE at the knowledge and diversity. Thank you both for sharing and passing your wisdom and experiences to others!
Still my favorite two grumpy old gun guys! Seriously appreciate the wisdom
Thanks for dispensing all the wisdom. Good to hear some gun world veterans have a frank discussion.
Damn, I love Hackathorn. In 14 minutes he has succeeded in pissing off the tattoo, muscled up, tacticool operators who insist on "running" a whizbang operator pistol aimed at their cajones so they can go around the corner to get a gallon of milk.
Lol 😂 well the ads must've worked !
Hear hear!
I'm none of those things, but love my appendix holster. 🤷♂️
I love him too and appreciate his perspective. For me I only get to defend my life, and the life of my wife and kids, with what I have on me. We don’t get to choose when evil strikes.
If I’m not printing then I get to choose whatever I want to go get a gallon of milk, which is going to be a bigger gun. And he can carry his 8+1 capacity fancy Commander 1911 on his hip, or a 6 shot revolver.
I will go to my grave supporting his right to do so, even if he doesn’t support mine.
Don’t forget, you must always carry 3 extra fully loaded mags, and a couple of smoke grenades! Lol 😂
Very informative. As a fellow Boomer in my mid 70s I agreed w/everything said here, to include the red dot craze. I don’t have a red dot on any of my guns b/c of the three real world on duty shootings experienced in my 30 yrs.
Ken Hackathorn is a pot of gold. His knowledge, experience and wisdom are absolutely priceless. When he speaks, shut your damn mouth and listen closely.
I really appreciate the unfiltered, honest commentary by two legends of the industry.
I have one of the first Sig P320s. It was my first pistol. I tried a few grips with different stippling including the x carry grip. I could not shoot well it. The Wilson Combat Grip is truly a game changer. It seemed tailored for my old hands. This is not a standard P320 grip with some mods. The WC P320 grip is wonderfuly ergonomic. Thank you Wilson Combat for your R&D and a great product.
I have Wilson grips on all my 320's, and I'm very thankful that Wilson has grip models for the M17/M18 with manual safeties... hardly anyone else does. My favorite is the smaller Wilson compact-size grip (reduces the mag capacity by a couple rounds) that I use on my M18. This makes the M18 G19-sized, which is just about perfect. I treat my 320's like a Browning Hi Power, and don't point them loaded with the safety off at my "junk".
This is the best video and advice I’ve seen in a very long time. A truckload of experience, logic and common sense. Thanks guys.
Amen David.
I gave a thumbs up and haven't watched it yet.
@@itstime5390 you better! 😂
I'm happy that anyone has ANY kind of gun whether it's a revolver or a semi-auto. But for my senior lady hands, it's semi-auto every time all the time.
If you ever get to the point where you have reduced hand strength you might look into the Smith & Wesson EZ series of pistols.
They seem to be a big hit.
Yes, S&W EZ
@@JustDefense , yes, the EZ guns are great. Even young female students who show up to basic pistol class have an EZ 380 or 9 mm with them. I'm sure I'll get to that point someday, but right now my Glock 19 and my Glock 42 still work for me. Just not one handed. For that I would have to switch to my TX22. Not saying it's ideal, but the crack of a 22 long rifle is actually pretty impressive and if I just had one working hand...
@@JustDefense , second comment. It's not racking the slide that is difficult, it's the easier semi-auto trigger pull that I love. I've never been able to fire a revolver with just one finger. I have to use the index finger of both hands to pull those triggers back. So that's a deal breaker along with the limited round count.
@@deejayimm , I agree 100%.
Mr Ayoob, Sir, I have followed and benefitted from your knowledge for decades, in printed articles, and now this format. It has been passed to my daughter, and now my grandson, who serves in the US Navy. Both my daughter and myself practice EDC. Mine is a Sig GSR 1911 .45 with two extra mags. You Sir are a wealth of information and knowledge and second only to Col, Jeff Cooper in my hero class. At 71 yrs of age, you still teach me. THANK YOU, Sir!!!
Bill and Ken are a huge vat of gun knowledge. Throw LAV in there, and you have three guys who are national treasures. I really appreciated this episode. Great insights. Thank you Mr. Wilson and Mr. Hackathorn.
I have to say, the fact that you shared info on new trends in the entire industry and not just Wilson Combat has me really looking at a Wilson Combat for my next firearm. Integrity is worth everything. Thank you gentlemen
That was absolutely terrific content, thanks for sharing gents!
Rick
I’ve been exclusively shooting 22lr. Recoil management is basically nonexistent, but it still gives me enough trigger time to maintain some proficiency. It’s just too expensive for me to shoot 500 rounds of 9mm these days.
You're part of a great big club right now! I have mostly shot my Taurus TX22 for the last year and a half. Frankly, I love those 16 rounds and they all go in pretty much the same place because of the lack of recoil. When I take my dog out last thing at night, I have that TX22 because it's the only gun at my age that I can shoot pain free with one hand, and .22 actually has a nice little crack when you shoot it. It's enough to scare away coyotes and things that might tangle with my baby..
@@nmr6988 I’ve primarily been shooting my S&W Model 617 with a red dot sight. I usually do plate rack drills at 25 yards. I don’t try to be fast, I just try to be accurate. I’ve become a big fan of the 22lr.
@@mikem2132 I like your plan. Right now I could only dream of doing plate rack drills... Where I currently live there are only indoor ranges unless you are very well off. Then you can pay the membership fee to some of the very very nice outdoor ranges. Moving home to Texas in a few months and it's just the opposite. Most ranges are outdoor. I can't wait!
@@nmr6988 I live in Alabama, it’s $160 for an annual membership at my range. I love an outdoor range, it’s so peaceful!
It’s not just firearms proficiency, it’s also recreation. Plate rack drills with my Henry Golden Boy that’s just makes me happy.
@@mikem2132 try $1,000 per year for outdoor in GA and $450 pet year for an indoor range. It's terrible.
Excellent video and this is coming from a revolver guy 73 years old that starting shooting K frames in 1970.
I don't think ammo will ever be as cheap as it was but in my area 9x19 is readily available at about $15.00 per box of 50. Great info guys...thanks.
My local store routinely has it for ~$15.99 or so now.
Moving laterally with an optic on your pistol was such a good point
A couple years ago, I bought a Gen5 G19 MOS, put an SRO on it, shot it a few times and heard many people say “you won’t go back to irons” That being said, it’s the only RDS gun in my safe and I have purchased quite a few guns since then, none have a red dot on them. The other argument is “you got a RDS on your rifle, might as well have one in your pistol” or something to that effect. I think that’s wrong in my opinion, rifles are different than handguns, apples/oranges etc. Not bragging, but when it comes to guns, for me, money is no object. So price is not an issue or me. I just don’t “need” a RDS on my carry gun(s) my irons will work fine at 10yrds and in, that’s how I train/practice.
The information in this video is real, informative, and priceless in today’s new world of firearms ownership.
These guys laid the foundation of what we enjoy today...old school , iron sights , train how you carry...could out the Caniks from Turkey
I have been a LE firearms instructor with my dept since 2007. Ken is spot on. I tell officers your most likely engagement scenario is 8yrds and in. I own and train with Sigs, HK's, Colts, S&W's Glocks and a WC EDC X9. I take continuous ribbing as my daily carry is a snub nose S&W mod 66 with 38spl+p and I practice 3-7yard point shooting center mass. I will put my targets up against any red dot shooter any day
Revolvers may come back in popularity. I have a Ruger SP101 3 inch that I will never sell even though I never carry it. Five shots does not set well with me since the bad guys travel in a pack like wild dogs. I have metal framed and polymer framed hand guns and love them both, polymer is a little easier to carry.
I shoot the lights out with my ruger security six.
I just sold my Glock 23 gen 5 and bought a full sized 1911 with a rail in 45 auto. I bought two Tripp research cobra mags and will be brushing back up on using that system. Metal guns will on gain popularity because of the way they make you feel.
A saber keen, a saddle carbine and a Remington Army 😆
"A saber keen and a saddle carbine and an Army Remington...
Where the hot lead screams and the cold, cold steel let me be a cavalryman."
I don't think revolvers will come back strong unless they find a way to make them cheaper.
With few exceptions, nowadays only cheap revolvers are cheap revolvers if you know what I mean.
When you can pickup a flagship model semi-auto for under $500, it makes the idea of buying a revolver abit salty to alot of people.
Thanks so much for the no BS commentary! But then I’m old. 😆. I shoot RD sights and irons; raised on irons. Marine Corps trained on irons. Ken, your dead on with your comment about the round count to get combat proficient on both. 100 percent. Thanks again for your channel.
Bill Wilson, Ken Hackathorn, Massad Ayoob, I enjoy thier knowledge!
I love my aiwb and I’m not changing, but I respect Hawthorn’s stance. AIWB seemed a fad for some time, but I really do think it is a good carry position.
So do I.
If anything will teach you great trigger discipline, it’s carrying AIWB. If you mess up it’s your junk/femoral artery on the line.
All jokes aside, I’ve carried at 1 o’clock for 6 years and I think it’s the best for me. Less printing issues, less worrying bending over and showing the gun, and a *lot* smoother draw stroke. It’s not for everyone but it suits me well.
I've only ever carried appendix in the waistband since I started CCWing at 21 about ~6 years ago
wise old men talking about what they know best are always worth listening to. These two are priceless. Listen carefully
I hope the current high ammo costs don't drive away the new gun owners we've supposedly picked up these last few years.
Most of 'em are stashed in nightstand drawers. They're gonna be filtering into the used like new never fired market like Dirty Harry 44s for years to come.
We have all of those . Revolvers , 9s steel and polymers we have a bunch of 1911s big and small . I like um all .
Knowledge and wisdom, the batteries never run down on that. Good information from good men.
No doubt
Great discussion and I so enjoy listening to honesty. Thanks to you two for this wonderful video
You are exactly right. Great guitar players do not always mean that they are great guitar teachers. Your observations are dead on.
Red dots are awesome for dry firing. I don't use them, they're slow, obnoxious, and too much BS to worry about. but they helped me tremendously see what my trigger finger and grip was doing wrong.
Save a few bucks and get the Mantis X system for dry firing. It records and shows even the smallest movement of the gun when you practice dry firing. Great training device for perfecting your trigger pull.
Best dry fire/trigger control tool there is. Great point!
You guys are Terrific!!!
I couldn't agree more with what was stated in this session. This is true with red dots. They have a ways to go. They don't make you a better a shooter. Remember the basics and the fundamentals.
Thanks Ken I was feeling kind of low about taking the red dot off of my pistol. I never was that cool anyway. 😆. I hope if wilson is going to come up with aftermarket grips for the p365 they don't forget about the p365xl with manual safety.
Blackwater Fever.... Thank you Ken , I've had that conversation without the title.
I look up to these guys bigtime. Ken's outlook is so badass, neat to see how many trends he's seen come and go jus
I used to do the website for a friend of mine that taught defensive pistol & CCW classes and a couple things killed his business. One was going to permitless carry killed 75% of his business overnight. The next was the internet killing a lot of the small mom & pop gun stores that used to send him business. They were replaced by combo ranges & stores that sent their customers to their own classes. I bought just a .22 rifle at one of these places because they had a unicorn on the shelf that I had been looking for and they threw in a free class. So I took their intro to competition class as they held IDPA and a 2-gun match that I was interested. Class was 1 hour of rules like how to observe the 180, etc. and 3 hours of "you need to buy all this other crap in our store in order to even hope of being good like our sponsored shop employees". It worked. I saw about half the class out in the shop after buying an odd mix of Condor & HSGI stuff because that's what they sold.
Spare mags prob the most important accessory
If you have a rail it can't hurt to but a light on it. Need to see a threat to identify it as a threat.
could listen to Bill tell stories all day,,more Bill!
The Dan Wesson ECO 3.5" in 9mm is ~ 27oz and carries very nicely.
Really enjoyed the podcast , I'm an older guy and I've never been one to jump on the tactical stuff in EDC mode however it can be a little fun at the range, functional clothing, but my ideal of tacti-cool is a Desert Eagle 50 with comp. But I'm more the eagle setting in a restaurant facing the door pretending I'm blind, never stair , just aware !
“We live in a 9mm polymer handgun world”. My world is all 1911 and .45 acp.
I completely understand your position on gear, Mr. Hackathorn. I was trained with the mindset that you "train with the gear that you use". I do not have a CCW. But if something goes bump in the night, I have all of my gear on one belt.. Holster, mags, light, CS spray, etc.. And I do not have to grab all of my gear. All my gear is on one belt. Thnx.
The biggest advantage I have with a red dot for me is over coming my cross eye dominance problem. I can draw and not have to close one eye to hit a target. With that said I do have non red dot guns. Particularly the beretta 92.
I really like how they just tell it how it is , unlike most who are always pouring sugar coated diarrhea on everything
I tried to do that im my comment at look at the feedback comments. lol
There is nothing like the voice of genuine EXPERIENCE! And these gentlemen have it in great abundance. And you just cannot fake real experience.
I am glad that I subscribed to Wilson Combat, thank you so much good sirs. This was an excellent video. A Safe, Healthy, Happy, & Very Blessed New Year To Everyone!
Thank you. We are glad you subscribed too!
Amen. I have roughly 30 years of combat arms and urban law enforcement experience. I'm tired of the tacti cool dudes with lights and lasers etc... Most people are well served by a J frame in an easily accessible location. Low key.
Do you have a light on your duty weapon?
@@orbeclipse1 I did not. They weren't a thing yet. I retired in 2007. I might have had one if available. Although, I like the idea of having a striking weapon (long flashlight) in my non gun hand when clearing a building. I do not have one on any of my edc guns. Reason? Won't need it when out and about. At home, don't want to reveal my position to a yet to be located suspect. Unlikely, this will happen given my location and dogs anyway.
Thank you gentlemen. This was one of the most interesting and informative things I've seen on YT in a long time. Thoroughly, enjoyed.
Wilson combat. You are fantastic. Tremendous information. Good for old geezers. Good for people starting out. Pray to God people like you stay the course.
Absolutely 100% spot on about modern “instruction”. These two know more about training and hardware than the top 50 tattoo/beard/kydex/appendix guys combined. Great info here.
I totally agree, I can't stand all the Tacticool BS but I don't understand the hate for Kydex and appendix carry beyond the fact that it's just not of their time.
If you get a decent kydex holster, it will pop on and off your belt so easily when you want it to, but it's extremely secure when you don't.
The biggest complaint I hear from people in regards to appendix carry is that when you re holster the firearm there's a risk of you shooting yourself, but all you have to do is pop the holster off, re holster the firearm off body, and then pop the holstered firearm back on.
Kydex holsters also make for an excellent way of safely storing your chambered firearm with the trigger and action covered, especially if you don't have kids.
In the hot summer it's super easy to carry a micro compact double stack in the appendix with shorts and a t-shirt.
Referencing Bill's comment at 20:45 ... I certainly hope it's a more ergonomic grip. If so, I'm placing my order here and now.
Happy New Year. Keep the content coming, I look forward to each new episode.
Serving it straight and neat with no chaser. Thanks Mr. Hathathorn
Spot on with the “red dot” discussion. Iron sights are durable and alway work.
I agree with Ken 100%, Blackwater Fever. Spent 21 years of 32 years in tier 1 units and we constantly attempted to reduce our equipment. Now I see videos of trainers with plate carriers, helmets etc. Shoot, shoot and shoot more. Have someone watch you to give constructive criticism on efficiencies. Accuracy is #1 then build speed without reducing accuracy.
Happy New Year Bill and Ken!!! Another great episode.
I was never a fan of appendix carry, but after 2 back surgeries, strong side carry became painful for me. It aggravated my back and right hip pain. So I bought an appendix holster for my 365 and really made an effort to carry it in that fashion. To my surprise I found it quite comfortable. I now have appendix holsters for 3 different guns, one of which is a full size, 18 round, red dot sighted pistol. I've found I can carry it all day very comfortably. Granted, it's not for a beginning shooter. You must have finger discipline and slow, deliberate re-holstering technique. But it works for me.
I love these BOOMER guys. Such real-world wisdom.
Cool boomers.
Boom goes the dynamite
@@Jdowling357 LOL
Same. Its kinda cool that gun rights/knowledge is one of tge the clearest examples of passing the metaphorical torch from one generation to the next. And it's alive and well..
Love these old guys!!!!!!
Ahhh I guess cause I’m an old guy also 😉
I am 75. Been shooting since age 15. Started with a 1911. Former military and contractor. Have tried red dots on a Glock 17 and on a 9mm Sig 320 X. I also have both pistols with open sights. I carry daily for self defense. I prefer both pistols without the red dot.
I always learn a lot from you videos.Hope you and yours had a wonderful holiday.
Same to you!
Being retired LEO I agree but would like to add the tactical warrior sheepdog T-shirt. That’s the business to be in. You can be a hero for $14.99
Great interview with two legends and no BS guys
Good call on bringing up the Laugo Alien. I've wondered for a while if duty guns in this style would be the future, it would (in theory) interface with the red dot trend much better than slide mounted. We'll see.
I personally like iron sights. I want simple, reliable, and minimalistic for my handguns. I don't want to rely on finding a battery in the middle of something happening.
I don't have a problem with polymer or steel guns. I've had both and it doesn't matter as long as it works. Again, just my opinion.
I've never agreed with the tacticool group. It's all wasted energy and ego getting in the way of your own God given capability to be proficient.
Presbyopia
Probably not going to see I like my Big Three Dot sights. I really don't want the added bulk of a red dot sight on my carry pistol.
I had been skipping by this video for a couple of days, but I'm glad I finally stopped to watch it. I've been pistol shopping this week, and wanted something with with a red dot already mounted, or picking up a red dot to mount on my Glock 19 MOS. You guys make perfect sense on the subject of red dots, and I'm rethinking the whole red dot thing now. Thank you guys for having and sharing this conversation.
I use irons. But you should try a red dot. Get a cheapy like an ADE to try. Some like it, some don't. I don't. But they do teach a lot in practice.
@@adlucem9845 I may still give it a shot. My near vision is not so good, and can't see irons clearly.
Super happy that I took the time to listen to this segment. In a situation that would call for a tool of need; you’re still going to fall back on your most reactive impulse. For me that’s fine day my front side. Probably no matter how long I train with a red dot. Two words; night sights 😉
Outstanding video and presentation
Thank you very much!
Man!!! Another excellent drop the mic posting. Outstanding discussion.
GREAT STUFF GENTLEMEN. 👏👏👏. I carry a Wilson Combat 45. I carry the weapon for protection. I think I will stay with the good old iron sights. One other point I’d like to make, who was it that said many years back, “beware of the one gun man”. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK……………..
I deeply respect Wilson and Hackathorn, and this is a great channel. They are both better shooters than I will ever be and know more about shooting than I will ever know. Having said that, I think they discount the value of red dots for the average shooter, largely because they are all-world shooters. I believe Mr. Hackathorn when he says he can shoot irons as well as a red dot out to 15 yards. I am an average shooter with irons out to 15 yards. Put a red dot on my pistol and I become a nearly excellent shooter out to 15 yards. My group sizes get cut in half, and my accuracy at speed increases tremendously. And it only took me about 2 hours of dry fire and a mag at the range to pick up the dot. Red dots are the future, and honestly they are the present, too.
There are times when I really wish I could do multiple thumbs up. This is one of those times. Thanks for the wisdom gentlemen.
Glad you enjoyed it
Man, I couldn’t agree more on every topic these two legends discussed. Everything from Red Dots being over-rated, the tacticool wannabes, to the unfortunate direction the firearms market is going. THANK YOU for telling it like it is, and not being PC. I’m confident there will be many butt-hurt individuals after watching this video. And yes, the Sig P365 is a fantastic handgun!
For those with bad eyes, just switch the front sight to a fiber optic.
I could listen to another 30 minutes of these guy.
The wilson grip module is a game changer!
That good huh? Was considering “building” a 320. Going to check out WC grip for,sure!
92F....."Pizza pistol", LOL! Never heard that before! Thanks for the laugh.
Hugely addictive to Mr Ken’s, Mas and Bill’s knowledge and opinion on a whole lot of guns stuff, but never ever heard anything about CZ’s pistol products. Interested why?
Bill! Thank you for the grip module! Best!
Enjoyed watching this video again. So much to learn from these men. I'm an old gun fart myself at 68. Always held the 1911 closest to my heart and was always a never own a 9 mm guy. My EDC is a Sig P320 in 9 mm. Never say never.
I love these guys, that’s where you go when u need the real deal. I started out in the Military, and did a stint with the DOD. I’m happy doing what I’m doing now, teaching DTAC and MMA to other PMC’s. The transition sucked but you gotta jump in with two feet and 𝚃𝙲𝙱‼️
Forgot to add Bill’s Glock comment is spot-on, and I took the red dots off my pistols.
RM 380 has been my pistol from the start. Crimson Trace added red laser. One for me, one for the wife. Added Browning 1911-380, which I have left as an open sight weapon. Also, just got a Remington R1 Carry in .45 ACP. I have not had an opportunity to yet put many rounds through it. Getting over Covid-19 and will turn 69 in three weeks. Hoping my new year will be better than this last few weeks. God bless for a better 2022 and thanks for good insights, guys.
You guys are trying to piss some people off lol! I like my red dots just because i can stay target focused but i still like irons also so it doesn't really matter to me! I will shoot whatever i get handed to me just fine! But i do dry fire a few times and shoot every week around 50 to 100 rounds at the least. Thanks guys for everything you do!
@Jake Grimes night sights are worthless
Ken Hackathorn is Legend!
I appreciate the perspective and point of view. I’m with y’all. I like red dots and optics but on my carry gun I still do iron sights. Also on my AR I have irons and I can still reach out to two hundred with no issues. I don’t see myself having to use it to that range anyway. I just like to hear what you guys think and watch all the episodes. Thanks.
Every pistol I own has a red dot except for my EDC. I won't trust my life with something that needs a battery.
@@kellywalker8407 Red dot pistols have iron sights.
Co-witness sights are fine. (I recommend Dawson). But having to look through the glass is still not as fast as plain open sights.
Looking for a red dot that is not there and then having to transition to open sights takes time.
Amazing. Very very good. Happy New Year folks. Cheers
Red dot sight takes me longer to find the dot but at a distance it helps. You guys are spot on.
Practic daily with it just by pushing it out for sight picture. I can't live without my holosun 507c.....hated it at first..... Almost took it off my gun and sold it but a buddy talked me into keeping it and gave me proper training and advice and it stuck. With the holosun you can switch the sight picture from dot to circle to big circle dot and the big circle dot helps EXTREMELY WELL with finding perfect sight picture each time.
Love these conversations. True understanding. Conversation also relates to other field such as the trades industry.
Prediction: Springfield Armory are going to have a hit as soon as they debug their SA-35. Which begs the question: Bill, why doesn't WC offer a HP35 made to the level of quality you guys are capable of? You are doing a fantastic job on 1911's, Beretta 92's etc. so making a version of the HP35 seems so obvious, and I am absolutely convinced there is a ready market for this platform. You're a gun guy, you like a classic platform, so be good to yourself (and the rest of us) and just do it. Best wishes for the new year.