As you say, 90% of your aero comes from your body rather than the frame. I'd also argue that 90% of "compliance" comes from the contract points (saddle, tires, handlebars, chamois etc) An engineer could play around with the carbon layup for years and not have half the effect of slapping on some thicker bar tape and going up a tire size.
Pretty much I call the aero bikes downhill road bikes because there is no way any of it possibly makes a noticeable difference below 50km/h which most people will hit descending, and if there is anything that fixed gear taught me is that the things you touch or the ground touches makes the most difference.
I absolutely love my tcr sl 1. It's fast, climbs so well and I find it comfortable. I had a good bike fit, I got a great deal and I couldn't be happier.
Just picked up my new 2021 Advanced Pro 1 disc this week. After 1st ride I can tell it's stiffer than all my former steeds and yet has great compliance and comfort. Very pleased so far. Out of the box 7.48kg. Super nice riding machine and tons of value IMO.
I like it harsh an fast. So it‘s the perfect bike to ride the swiss alps. My TCR size M/L weighs 6.1kg race ready, including giant ride sense, quarq powermeter, two bottle cages, look pedals and garmin mount. Also made a „gravel version“ with chinese carbon wheelset and continental crossking cx 32mm tires at 6.78kg, lots uf fun!
About the aero update - that David Arthur guy did some wind tunnel testing of this version of the TCR, vs. a Canyon ultimate. The TCR was, 5-10 watts better than the Ultimate
Gonna call a HARD bs on frame stiffness/comfort.. in my experience 5psi in tire pressure make more difference in comfort than any difference in road frames. And you mentioned road roughness.. take some pressure out of your tire.. better handling, better comfort.. and FASTER TOO! Research rolling resistance vs “impedance”.. work done by Tom Anhalt, Josh Poertner (Silca).. good subject for a video actually! Essentially every vibration that makes it past the tire is absorbed by body and energy doesn’t go back into road.. body acting as a huge dampener dissipating that energy as heat.. never to be seen again! Like the air damper in your shock edit[lockout] video!
5 PSI can make a big difference and so can the other components. Your experience is much easier to validate in a simple test. WRT "rolling resistance" versus "impedance", impedance is resistance. What you read pertains to impedance both at the tire plus other than where the tire interfaces with the road. Resonance outside of the tire to road interface is significant but harder to measure in terms of power lost in watts or whatever. And that is where your 5 PSI window can be most important. But it's not a sliding scale. Do 5 PSI at the right time and you'll perhaps gain speed and comfort. That's a fine tuning issue and not something that replaces intelligent selection of the other components.
Cut my propel ISP and the park tool saw guide was great. The trick is to "brake in" the saw blade in the wider slit. After that, it will fit through the narrower slit and give a perfect cut.
I have a TCR SL 0 from 2017. It has a very smooth ride. I think you might find the newer disk TCR’s will have a less smooth ride because of the extra strength required in the fork and rear triangle for disk brakes. Would be interested in your opinion.
This is the best review of this bike I’ve seen. Helpful for me in choosing the advanced pro instead of killing myself to pay for the SL for it just to beat me up.
I would prefer giant to replace the isp with a normal seatpost. Had the base tcr rim and it was way stiffer compared to my canyon ultimate slx, especially in bumpy roads, a serious race machine. Hoping to see a smart integrated cockpit like specialized and a normal seatpost
@@tombola4046 what I meant was the stem and the bars are not a single piece, like the Propel. Still integrated cockpit are a mess to work with, sharp bends that cuts hoses, makes mechanical shifting garbage, but that clean look is top notch
@@LucaBonato if most tour teams aren't using them it says a lot they look awesome but your really trying to pretend the bike is a track bike for a mountain of money
I agree with the preference of two piece handlebar. But I find aero shaped bar top more comfortable. Round bar put point load into my palm at its radius. Flat top has broad wide flat surface to rest my palm on and is more comfortable. I even switch bar on my gravel bike to a cheap and heavy flat top alloy bike because I can't stand round bar's discomfort on gravel.
@Peak Torque highly informative, objective and entertaining analysis as always. btw, ultimately, in abstract ideal terms, would you conclude: 1. this is your ideal weapon of choice for climbing? 2. but that for descent of the same steep hill, with winding turns and occasionally bumpy road surfaces, the optimal of your pair of tcr’s would instead be the advanced pro 1 (better comfort, road handling railing round corners better as a function of better compliance)?
Nice to see you doing a riding review...it's what it's all about really. Seat too fore or aft puts more weight at end which flexes the seat downwards slightly which affects comfort when trying to utilise the whole seat area for different positions.
Great vid! What’s your saddle height? Have you tried the Giant Revolt? Looking at one but I’m similar height to you and not sure the seat post is long enough!
I’m a taller rider (6’4”) and ride a TCR SL. I’ve never been happier with a bike frame. I’m running SRAM Force/Red ASX - love the change mechanics, but still think Shimano is smoother. Running DT Swiss rims - so good for heavier chaps such as myself. Your reviews are great as they validate those thoughts that dwell in the back of my mind during steep climbs - like the ISP clamp 🙄. Can concur that disc brakes are crucial for stopping my mass, but so noisy and temperamental. Shall be using your upgrade when they are available. Keep up the good work!
@@petrezsemle I run an XL and it gives me a super comfortable position. Riding mates have commented how god my position looks - I was a bit cramped on my previous bike - a 61cm BMC.
Great content w/ no biased BS. Giant is underrated and best bang for the buck IMO. Bought a TCR adv… Great bike, great buy! Does anyone know, is bb 86, same as pf86, and is this an upgrade for 105? Thanks
I have a Giant TCR adv pro 1 disc size XS super happy with the performance, very fast on Flat/Ascent/ Descent very light about 7kg . Downfall is just during windy days having a whip of a crosswind is very scary! I ordered a Hunt wheelset alloy 34mm tubeless for training and winter hopefully will negate the effect of the crosswind. I Will save my SLR 1 carbon wheelset for sportive and in summer rides.
Great job! 👏👏👏 I will admit, my knees started to ache just watching you mash on the gears at 50 RPM in that one section. This would be a 1 to 1 gear ratio climb for me AT BEST! Kudos for having such powerful legs 💪💪💪!
I normally wouldn't ride at such low cadence but this "wall" we have goes to 22% in one section. I don't ride it that often! My usual bottom gear is 34-30 or 34-32
I also have a 2021 Giant TCR (and I am tall like you). It is an awesome bike and super stiff - but I do wish the stack height was a little less aggressive for taller riders.
I really like adv. SL. I’ve had four. FWIW, latest iteration is notably more aero, seat post, forks, seat stays, are all now truncated. I’ve yet to fully check out the high speed of the latest model (roll on next season)
Fabulous review. I'd love to see a special on headsets, from an engineering standpoint. I think it's an extremely underrated component and nobody really talks about it.
@@PeakTorque Also the amount of misadjusted/misaligned, or worn headsets is perplexing. It can make or brake a fantastic bike imo, in terms of handling - specially sprinting - or anything that puts force through it.
And why, despite all the progress in so many areas of bike design, there is still not a single manufacturer that has looked at how you drain water away from the lower bearing to prevent it corroding! With integrated cabling/brake hoses, changing headset bearings is a massive issue. I only take my Propel out on dry days because if the headset ever needs changing, I will literally have to cut the ends off the brake hoses so that I can unthread them through the bar, stem and steerer tube. I do agree that Giant are underrated - I built my Propel Disc up from a frameset and I was very impressed with the engineering and overall quality.
Have you ever considered tidying and soldering spokes to reduce the wheel wind up? Iv done it on a rim brake rear and it stopped the spokes making an annoying clicking noise when pedalling hard, Iv done it recently on my disc brake wheels with carbon fibre tow & resin and it’s turned out well, has reduced the wind up a bit, made the wheels feel stiffer and seems to stop the spokes loosening over time.
Excellent. One thing that I've noticed about this video, your other bike reviews, as well as your scoring matrix, is the absence of handling and/or cornering. I don't remember you talking about it much, if at all, in any of your videos. Why is that? That's one of the most important aspects of a bike for me and I would think that it is for you as well, especially with all of the twisty descending that you probably do. Thanks!
He does mention some kind of trade off of ultimate stiffness vs handling / cornering, I took that to imply the adv pro performed better than the sl in this regard?
This was a good video. (I've criticized some of your hambini videos in the past - preferences, right?) I'm actually saving to try and get a liv langma sl (2022). According to giant, a tiny bit less stiff that the TCR SL and with a geometry that fits me better (almost 99% geometry of the aethos/tarmac). Moving from an addict rc with hidden cables which taught me a very important lesson: screw hidden cables - they are a pain in the rear!!
What do think of the tyres? I like the Michelins because it's weird I like motorsport. Sports cars tend to use michelins and I like the logos- it's like my bike has parity with a motorcar. What do you think of the power road?
Nice looking bike, did you consider running Favero Assiomo Duos? Has to be the best bang for buck dual sided powermeter option out there. Will also deliver true L/R power versus any spider based alternative.
Hi Peak Torque, love the videos and based off your recommendation going to be building up a TCR advanced pro (ISP not for me). I do have a question on bottom bracket, specifically what BB I need for a SRAM dub spindle (I'm reusing my force tap grupo). I'm scouring the internet but struggling with what BB the TCR runs? Thanks!
I really like my 2019 Advanced Pro 0 disc. I have been thinking about buying the exact same frameset as yours but had a few questions. This review answered pretty much every one of them. So I shelved that idea for now. Do you even travel with this bike? I read on different forums that it can be a bit of PITA. Also what brand/model shades are those at 0:28? Sick of my Oakleys haha. Great review overall!
Yeh the pro is good. I don't think there are many benefits to the SL honestly its do marginal. The bike fits in my bike Case with the saddle removed and cranks out. No big issue with doing that, some people just moan about anything and how often do they actually travel?! Probably because they can't take out the cranks without the help of a bike shop. The glasses are Burberry
Depends on your transportation box but it's really a minor quibble. Possibly it's just me but refitting a crankset and maybe a seat clamp isn't a big ask but and it's a price worth paying rather than ocd'ing if your saddle height has changed. It's outside of my world but I wonder how many team-supporting mechanics love the ISPs.
Really enjoy your knowledge, thanks! Q: I'm 194 cm (96 inseam), and quickly pressed BUY when Canyon got their Ultimate SL8 rimbrake on stock again a few days ago, size XL. You mentioned the angle of the seat tube... I can see the Ultimate has a 73.8 degree angle. Should i consider that a good thing? I do quite a lot of climbing.
Also, since I might catch your attention with an early comment ;): a) what's that amazing scenery in your video? b) what do you think about aero bars without complete integration? For instance there are those aero handlebars from prime that I really rate: the Doyenne and the Primavera bars. I love the long drops on those. c) What's that powermeter crank you're using? I have a threaded BB86 and it seems there are no good/cheap option for dual sided powermeter. My 4iiii left sided crank reads some complete BS compared to my other 3.
Hello! I am in MTB for almost 2 years and I am converting to road bikes....What do you think about Giant Tcr Advanced 2016 model? - Is it good for beginners? - What is the perfect size for 1.78 cm Height? - Can I do packaging with the bike
A little sad about the tire clearance and yeah, the ISP is pretty dumb. The isp clamp weighs more then an aftermarket seatpost! Can you measure the exact clearance on the rear tire? Use a hex key as a feeler gauge. I am curious what can fit in 650b.
The ISP.. yeah somewhat inconvenient but there are some advantages. Not true that it is heavier than seatpost alternatives available (like for like, total system weight). It means they can tune the whole bike layup to achieve desired characteristics. Increased stiffness to weight ratio, It doesn't ever slip or wear, and likely one less point of failure. Source: 5 years of happy riding on my own TCR with ISP..
Thanks for saying your bike frame can be to ' stiff ' , to me there seems to be a tipping point were if the stiffness is to high over a multi-veriable road surface a stiff bike is actually slower !!
Trying to build mine up, disc vs rim brake, does it add alot of weight? Ty...thinking of ordering frame and building on up to my own road machine... 🤣 I know it's not a BMC 🤣
What do you use for chain lube? I went down the wax "rabbit hole" and I am running "molten speedwax" on my triathlon bike and Giant Defy road bike. I am looking for a no BS Peak Torque and Hambini engineering answer as far what lubricant to use for daily use and racing. I don't mind the extra work of waking chains if is more efficient and the drive train would last longer. Thanks!
Adjustability is important as is not having the steer tube fail on an integrated system. If I bolt on too big a gear on my track bike, my saddle gets in the way when standing uphill!Talking about a stiff bike! Still worry about the carbon fork and aluminum steer tube interference though.
What kind of rotors are you using on that wheel set? I got a pair of Ultegra disc calipers and I am currently using a shimano 105 rotors of 160 mm and a I looking forward to use Deore rotor of 160 mm, what do you think Ultegra calipers + Deore Rotors?
The ride sucks because of the ISP. I used to own one. A buddy of mine spent less and bought the SL (non Advanced) with same build as mine. I was floored at the comfort on that one. You can ride the non SL Advanced version all day in total comfort
Great video. Any problems with disc rub? I have new 2021 Defy advanced in M/L with hunt wheels. I get disc rub front and back. Giant say it’s not the frame, local AD says it’s not the brakes and hunt say it’s not the wheels?
Sorry, but in my books 7.7 kg is a lot of weight for that price. Sure, it's aero, it's got disc brakes, it's got Di2, it's got whatnot, but 7.7 kg is only slightly less than the weight of a 1.500-2.000€ rim brake bike of 3-4 years ago. For that money you could easily build a sub 6.8 kg bike so long as you ditch disc brakes and Di2 - and you might even be able to throw in some aero bits on it. Whether aero is more important than weight is a whole topic of conversation, so much so when some people (me included) could not care less how fast they are on flats or descents, the only relevant bit is how fast and for how long they can climb in one go. Aero may be more important in a race, or more important to people who barely see a mountain once a year. But a 7.7 kg bike is still way too heavy for that price point.
Lol, another enthusiast pretending to be a pro, thinking that that 2-3 kg of weight actually matters. Oh the irony, when the industry’s effort to push the scam of “aero” is being bottlenecks by the success of its previous “weight is everything” scam.
@@87togabito at what point did I pretend to be a pro? If anything, I pointed out that some people, me included, have other priorities than pros (i.e.: we don't care about winning races or marginal gains, we merely care about how we can make our climbing experience more enjoyable). At no point was I discussing success in any form or shape. Funnily enough, you are exactly as dense as the last time I ran into you on RUclips.
XL frame + 28c tires + 50mm(?) rims is never going to be a weight weenie build. PT mentions that the handlebars and stem aren't optimized for weight either. It's not that you can't build a light version of the TCR, it's that PT didn't prioritize that.
@@Mamilian I'm not questioning his choices or priorities. I'm merely stating that any claim such as considering a 7.7 kg for a road bike to be light is far from the truth for this price point. A 7.7 kg bike can be considered light when you paid 2.000€ for it, not when you paid over 4.000€ or even more. For that price point, its weight is at best "not that heavy" if not "average". Sure, it may be lightweight for a bike with disc brakes and Di2 and deep rims. But it's not a light bike at all, even less so when you look at its price tag.
@@11robotics He bought an XL frame, built a bike around that frame. This wasn't a packaged bike, so I'm not sure what cost point you're referencing. Also, 1kg over UCI legal isn't portly for an XL frame, with 28c tires and 50mm wheels. It's very important to keep in mind that most of the "light" bikes other folks are reviewing are built around 52cm/54cm frames. Put some 30mm wheels wrapped in 25c tires, and swap out the bars for a carbon set and a lightweight aluminum stem, and you could easily drop 500g off that build.
Hola Peak Torque, antes que nada decir que tienes ina preciosa máquina de escalar. Disfruto mucho esta magnífica bicicleta de la que soy poseedor también. Quería preguntarte como has conseguido esconder tanto los cables de los frenos. Los has acortado? Un saludo amigo 👋🏻
IMO the best solution for the front end is semi-integrated. Cable entry ports in top of headset per Trek / Cannondale**, and then tape / tie cables to stem rather than having a fully integrated stem. Full flexibility for fit with whichever bars or stem you need, and the vast majority of the aero gains and neatness. **no I'm not saying either company represents best practice, both have had other shit shows recently.
I watched a UAE tour bike tour video and most teams ran a setup like this because the mechanics were pared down and they didn't wanna deal with the shit and that says a lot
I've got the Defy Advanced pro with normal D-Fuse seat post and I find it overly stiff in comparison to the front, very little flex in the seat. I think simply comes down to the seat set back as mine is nearly all the way forward and not very high. No matter what marketing bs they tell can't beat mechanical leverage...same in your case I see, you sitbones are in line with the seat post.
That’s interesting. I’ve got one and thought the lack of comfort was likely because of the wooden feeling 32c Giant tyres. But maybe it’s not just the tyres.
Waiting for you to get your hands on the new Dura-Ace calipers (or ultegra i dont care) and doing a squeal / rub test. My Brother has a Disc TCR (Ultegra) And the dude, being light (65 kilos) cannot avoid the rubbing. Rides of Japan did but he is too light. We need real humans testing it and not spiderpeople. Love RoJ tho.
I doubt I will be on those for a while as i just bought the nicer IMO 11sp group, unless we group fund a purchase so I can hammer the HELL out of them down that 950m climb (I am 92 kg in kit).
I have a Merida Scultura that I've been building , it's all built except it's missing a front derailleur. I need an Ultegra di2 unit, I've been looking all over for one. If there's anything you could do to help I would greatly appreciate it, I'm not asking for a free unit but just to buy one from a reliable source.
My 2018 Felt VR4 has an odd oversized bar and stem clamp at 35mm, does that make it significantly stiffer over a standard bar/clamp combo or is it just there to annoy me? The steerer tube is 1 1/8”
So what is the force generated by the brakes and how much deflection does that cause to the fork? Also why does making suspension in formula cars stiffer decrease braking distance? The usual theory is that the lack of frontend dive reduces the weight transfer to the front and allows you to run greater rear bias, but you are saying maxing out the spring rates and damping to basically locked levels has the opposite effect? This doesn't happen in simulations, what is your reasoning (given a smooth surface ensuring good tyre contact at all times)?
Are there any good cheap Powermeter options for BB86? Seems like the SIGEYI won't work with my threaded BB86, and I really don't wanna swap to a DUB BB for the DFour Quarq.
@@GrouEEf You could go for power meter pedals if you want to keep the cranks. Something like Favero Assioma Uno (or Duo's) or replace the cranks with something like Power2Max.
Loved the newer Gen TCR while in the saddle but the 2021 Advanced Pro 1 Disc felt horrible climbing and sprinting out the saddle. Couldn’t quite put my finger on why
I have a TCX 2021, obviously not as stiff as the TCR Advanced SL but it’s definitely as stiff as most other road bikes, and tbh is quite aero looking, with some wide Zipp 303 Firecrests and some 28mm tyres it would be ideal
Am I seeing right that you are not running a ,5mm spacer above your stem? I am riding a TCR too and was wondering wether it was necessary to run a spacer above the stem after cutting the steerer
There should be no spacers above the stem. The OD stem has a recess to accommodate the top cap which sits flush inside it. The steerer should be cut about 2mm shorter than the top of the stem to allow the flush finish.
@@pj9375 Mine is the 2016 pro1. TBH, I did experiment with a 5mm spacer above. It resulted in the topcap bolt working loose regularly. So returned back to normal and everything is snug now.
I can't believe any Giant bike could be stiff, I've test ridden dozens of them over the years and they've all been super noddles. If they changed that somehow in the last few years I'd be pleased.
@@PeakTorque I don't think they're lying, they haven't bothered to take the frame out of the box. They only see one plastic bag with the assorted small parts and go: "Yep, no seat clamp here." Where was the seat clamp stashed in the box when you got the frame?
@@PeakTorque Thank you for the replies. I just got the frameset, no seat clamp whatsoever. I bought an MY16 clamp for the older frames, no way it's going to fit with the 2021 frame. I'll see if I can return the seat clamp. Now comes the ordeal of figuring out where I'm going to get that seat clamp. Not many stores are delivering to Colombia, and those who do are charging 150 Euros, plus shipping and taxes for the MY21 seat clamp. 200 Euros is more money that what I paid for my old alloy bicycle that I retired into turbo trainer duty.
@@sand9577 was it from an official Giant dealer? If so, report them to Giant worldwide or Giant USA and maybe they can help you out. This frame 100% ships with the clamp!
If you're changing your body position for different events regularly, you are going to be compromising the physiological adaptations that allow you to produce power.
OK, that is a heavy bar and stem. But 7.8kg is not light my any means. My Caad12 aluminum disc bike with aluminum wheels and ultegra shifting (and heavy bar and stem) is just over 8kg.
Top Tip: You can pause the video at 2:10 :)
Great tip!
Press fit is crap. It’s all about threaded BB.
So the 2020 is still a better bike :D !!!
Is that a map of the US states?
@@mclogged2280 threaded is still pressfit
Have always though Giants were way underrated. Around me it’s all Trek, Cannondale and Specialized. Great review thanks
I agree, I ride a Giant Propel aerobike. The costs are 50% lower than a Trek Madone. It is a great bike and for sure for its money.
The TCR is the one of the most sensible bikes out there while keeping it relevant.
canyon ultimate imo
As you say, 90% of your aero comes from your body rather than the frame. I'd also argue that 90% of "compliance" comes from the contract points (saddle, tires, handlebars, chamois etc) An engineer could play around with the carbon layup for years and not have half the effect of slapping on some thicker bar tape and going up a tire size.
Pretty much I call the aero bikes downhill road bikes because there is no way any of it possibly makes a noticeable difference below 50km/h which most people will hit descending, and if there is anything that fixed gear taught me is that the things you touch or the ground touches makes the most difference.
Watching this review makes me miss warmer days and riding my ~2017 tcr advanced Sl ( rim brake )
Yours has a beautiful colour
I absolutely love my tcr sl 1. It's fast, climbs so well and I find it comfortable. I had a good bike fit, I got a great deal and I couldn't be happier.
Just picked up my new 2021 Advanced Pro 1 disc this week. After 1st ride I can tell it's stiffer than all my former steeds and yet has great compliance and comfort. Very pleased so far. Out of the box 7.48kg. Super nice riding machine and tons of value IMO.
I like it harsh an fast. So it‘s the perfect bike to ride the swiss alps. My TCR size M/L weighs 6.1kg race ready, including giant ride sense, quarq powermeter, two bottle cages, look pedals and garmin mount. Also made a „gravel version“ with chinese carbon wheelset and continental crossking cx 32mm tires at 6.78kg, lots uf fun!
Man my advanced 0 in M/L with R8000 rim groupo weighs 7.6 kg!!! Don’t know how you got it that light!
@@patrickparisienne1917 He didn't. He's spewing BS! 🙂
Check your scales
I've got the 21' TCR with the normal seat post. Love it
I just bought one last month. TCR is the bees knees!
Three thumbs up for narrating while pushing out 400w at 50rpm 😁
My knees didn't enjoy it
@@PeakTorque ouch
About the aero update - that David Arthur guy did some wind tunnel testing of this version of the TCR, vs. a Canyon ultimate. The TCR was, 5-10 watts better than the Ultimate
PT youre reviews are ALWAYS the best on YT in my opinion....thanks so much for the effort........
Gonna call a HARD bs on frame stiffness/comfort.. in my experience 5psi in tire pressure make more difference in comfort than any difference in road frames. And you mentioned road roughness.. take some pressure out of your tire.. better handling, better comfort.. and FASTER TOO!
Research rolling resistance vs “impedance”.. work done by Tom Anhalt, Josh Poertner (Silca).. good subject for a video actually! Essentially every vibration that makes it past the tire is absorbed by body and energy doesn’t go back into road.. body acting as a huge dampener dissipating that energy as heat.. never to be seen again! Like the air damper in your shock edit[lockout] video!
5 PSI can make a big difference and so can the other components. Your experience is much easier to validate in a simple test.
WRT "rolling resistance" versus "impedance", impedance is resistance. What you read pertains to impedance both at the tire plus other than where the tire interfaces with the road. Resonance outside of the tire to road interface is significant but harder to measure in terms of power lost in watts or whatever. And that is where your 5 PSI window can be most important. But it's not a sliding scale. Do 5 PSI at the right time and you'll perhaps gain speed and comfort. That's a fine tuning issue and not something that replaces intelligent selection of the other components.
Tubular give you more flexibility on tyre pressure also
Cut my propel ISP and the park tool saw guide was great. The trick is to "brake in" the saw blade in the wider slit. After that, it will fit through the narrower slit and give a perfect cut.
I have a TCR SL 0 from 2017. It has a very smooth ride. I think you might find the newer disk TCR’s will have a less smooth ride because of the extra strength required in the fork and rear triangle for disk brakes. Would be interested in your opinion.
This is the best review of this bike I’ve seen. Helpful for me in choosing the advanced pro instead of killing myself to pay for the SL for it just to beat me up.
I would prefer giant to replace the isp with a normal seatpost. Had the base tcr rim and it was way stiffer compared to my canyon ultimate slx, especially in bumpy roads, a serious race machine. Hoping to see a smart integrated cockpit like specialized and a normal seatpost
Smart integrated cockpit like the Specialized 🤣 yeh because the SL7 system is faultless!! I’d take seeing a few brake hoses than losing my teeth
Is that why specialized recently recalled components that have to do with their integrated cockpits? 🙄
@@tombola4046 what I meant was the stem and the bars are not a single piece, like the Propel. Still integrated cockpit are a mess to work with, sharp bends that cuts hoses, makes mechanical shifting garbage, but that clean look is top notch
@@LucaBonato if most tour teams aren't using them it says a lot they look awesome but your really trying to pretend the bike is a track bike for a mountain of money
@@tombola4046 100% right.
I agree with the preference of two piece handlebar.
But I find aero shaped bar top more comfortable.
Round bar put point load into my palm at its radius. Flat top has broad wide flat surface to rest my palm on and is more comfortable.
I even switch bar on my gravel bike to a cheap and heavy flat top alloy bike because I can't stand round bar's discomfort on gravel.
@Peak Torque highly informative, objective and entertaining analysis as always.
btw, ultimately, in abstract ideal terms, would you conclude:
1. this is your ideal weapon of choice for climbing?
2. but that for descent of the same steep hill, with winding turns and occasionally bumpy road surfaces, the optimal of your pair of tcr’s would instead be the advanced pro 1 (better comfort, road handling railing round corners better as a function of better compliance)?
great review mate, greetings from Sydney, Australia - I ordered a Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1 - excited to back on a TCR again
Nice to see you doing a riding review...it's what it's all about really.
Seat too fore or aft puts more weight at end which flexes the seat downwards slightly which affects comfort when trying to utilise the whole seat area for different positions.
Do you mean if the fit allows the saddle to be closer to mid point along the rails the isp is more compliant?
Great vid! What’s your saddle height?
Have you tried the Giant Revolt?
Looking at one but I’m similar height to you and not sure the seat post is long enough!
I’m a taller rider (6’4”) and ride a TCR SL. I’ve never been happier with a bike frame. I’m running SRAM Force/Red ASX - love the change mechanics, but still think Shimano is smoother. Running DT Swiss rims - so good for heavier chaps such as myself. Your reviews are great as they validate those thoughts that dwell in the back of my mind during steep climbs - like the ISP clamp 🙄. Can concur that disc brakes are crucial for stopping my mass, but so noisy and temperamental. Shall be using your upgrade when they are available. Keep up the good work!
What is the frame size of your bike? I'm the same height as you, but I'm not sure if size L or XL fits me better.
@@petrezsemle I run an XL and it gives me a super comfortable position. Riding mates have commented how god my position looks - I was a bit cramped on my previous bike - a 61cm BMC.
@@Narcosis71 Thank you for your quick answer.
Need to get your hands on an S-works Aethos frame in the same size and same general components and do a comparison video!! 🤙🏻
Great content w/ no biased BS. Giant is underrated and best bang for the buck IMO. Bought a TCR adv… Great bike, great buy! Does anyone know, is bb 86, same as pf86, and is this an upgrade for 105? Thanks
Great video! Which bike would you choose, Time alpe d'huez 21 or this Giant tcr?
I have a Giant TCR adv pro 1 disc size XS super happy with the performance, very fast on Flat/Ascent/ Descent very light about 7kg . Downfall is just during windy days having a whip of a crosswind is very scary! I ordered a Hunt wheelset alloy 34mm tubeless for training and winter hopefully will negate the effect of the crosswind. I Will save my SLR 1 carbon wheelset for sportive and in summer rides.
Great job! 👏👏👏 I will admit, my knees started to ache just watching you mash on the gears at 50 RPM in that one section. This would be a 1 to 1 gear ratio climb for me AT BEST! Kudos for having such powerful legs 💪💪💪!
I normally wouldn't ride at such low cadence but this "wall" we have goes to 22% in one section. I don't ride it that often! My usual bottom gear is 34-30 or 34-32
@@PeakTorque 22% 😲‼
I also have a 2021 Giant TCR (and I am tall like you). It is an awesome bike and super stiff - but I do wish the stack height was a little less aggressive for taller riders.
I'm 6'5, just bought one last month, I love it!
Great vid mate! If you were to buy another bike, what would that be?
I really like adv. SL. I’ve had four.
FWIW, latest iteration is notably more aero, seat post, forks, seat stays, are all now truncated.
I’ve yet to fully check out the high speed of the latest model (roll on next season)
Fabulous review. I'd love to see a special on headsets, from an engineering standpoint. I think it's an extremely underrated component and nobody really talks about it.
I agree, and the potential damage they can do to the steerer tube!
@@PeakTorque Also the amount of misadjusted/misaligned, or worn headsets is perplexing. It can make or brake a fantastic bike imo, in terms of handling - specially sprinting - or anything that puts force through it.
And why, despite all the progress in so many areas of bike design, there is still not a single manufacturer that has looked at how you drain water away from the lower bearing to prevent it corroding! With integrated cabling/brake hoses, changing headset bearings is a massive issue. I only take my Propel out on dry days because if the headset ever needs changing, I will literally have to cut the ends off the brake hoses so that I can unthread them through the bar, stem and steerer tube. I do agree that Giant are underrated - I built my Propel Disc up from a frameset and I was very impressed with the engineering and overall quality.
@@markpdouglas only thing you can do is periodically drop the fork down and smother it in heavy grease.
Aluminum steer tubes! Cause you only get one life! Or even steel!
Have you ever considered tidying and soldering spokes to reduce the wheel wind up? Iv done it on a rim brake rear and it stopped the spokes making an annoying clicking noise when pedalling hard, Iv done it recently on my disc brake wheels with carbon fibre tow & resin and it’s turned out well, has reduced the wind up a bit, made the wheels feel stiffer and seems to stop the spokes loosening over time.
*tying
Love my TCR. WONT have any other...
Excellent. One thing that I've noticed about this video, your other bike reviews, as well as your scoring matrix, is the absence of handling and/or cornering. I don't remember you talking about it much, if at all, in any of your videos. Why is that? That's one of the most important aspects of a bike for me and I would think that it is for you as well, especially with all of the twisty descending that you probably do. Thanks!
He does mention some kind of trade off of ultimate stiffness vs handling / cornering, I took that to imply the adv pro performed better than the sl in this regard?
This was a good video. (I've criticized some of your hambini videos in the past - preferences, right?)
I'm actually saving to try and get a liv langma sl (2022). According to giant, a tiny bit less stiff that the TCR SL and with a geometry that fits me better (almost 99% geometry of the aethos/tarmac). Moving from an addict rc with hidden cables which taught me a very important lesson: screw hidden cables - they are a pain in the rear!!
What do think of the tyres? I like the Michelins because it's weird I like motorsport. Sports cars tend to use michelins and I like the logos- it's like my bike has parity with a motorcar. What do you think of the power road?
i kinda like how you completely nerd out about bikes and cycling and talk about the engineering aspect
Nice looking bike, did you consider running Favero Assiomo Duos? Has to be the best bang for buck dual sided powermeter option out there. Will also deliver true L/R power versus any spider based alternative.
Using Favero duo, they are the best power meter ever
Hi Peak Torque, love the videos and based off your recommendation going to be building up a TCR advanced pro (ISP not for me). I do have a question on bottom bracket, specifically what BB I need for a SRAM dub spindle (I'm reusing my force tap grupo). I'm scouring the internet but struggling with what BB the TCR runs? Thanks!
You will need the following - SRAM PressFit BB86 DUB Bottom Bracket
@@PeakTorque perfect thank you!
Where's that section around 8:00 ? It seems a nice quiet stretch to grind hard, thanks in adv mate.
You didn't talk about the most important part: That is one sexy paint job 🤤
(From a proud owner of a bright yellow, circa 2002 Team ONCE TCR...)
Great video, how tall are you by the way?
I really like my 2019 Advanced Pro 0 disc. I have been thinking about buying the exact same frameset as yours but had a few questions. This review answered pretty much every one of them. So I shelved that idea for now. Do you even travel with this bike? I read on different forums that it can be a bit of PITA. Also what brand/model shades are those at 0:28? Sick of my Oakleys haha. Great review overall!
Yeh the pro is good. I don't think there are many benefits to the SL honestly its do marginal. The bike fits in my bike Case with the saddle removed and cranks out. No big issue with doing that, some people just moan about anything and how often do they actually travel?! Probably because they can't take out the cranks without the help of a bike shop. The glasses are Burberry
Depends on your transportation box but it's really a minor quibble. Possibly it's just me but refitting a crankset and maybe a seat clamp isn't a big ask but and it's a price worth paying rather than ocd'ing if your saddle height has changed. It's outside of my world but I wonder how many team-supporting mechanics love the ISPs.
@@PeakTorque thank you.
I'd buy it over anything that has total cable integration.
For sure better hope those bars a comfy if you don't lol
Really enjoy your knowledge, thanks!
Q:
I'm 194 cm (96 inseam), and quickly pressed BUY when Canyon got their Ultimate SL8 rimbrake on stock again a few days ago, size XL.
You mentioned the angle of the seat tube...
I can see the Ultimate has a 73.8 degree angle.
Should i consider that a good thing? I do quite a lot of climbing.
Also, since I might catch your attention with an early comment ;):
a) what's that amazing scenery in your video?
b) what do you think about aero bars without complete integration? For instance there are those aero handlebars from prime that I really rate: the Doyenne and the Primavera bars. I love the long drops on those.
c) What's that powermeter crank you're using? I have a threaded BB86 and it seems there are no good/cheap option for dual sided powermeter. My 4iiii left sided crank reads some complete BS compared to my other 3.
A) watch the video!
B) OK, but if you tilt the bar the aerofoil is now pointing up or down, causing drag.
@@PeakTorque Aww Hong Kong... missedd it, sorry
Hello!
I am in MTB for almost 2 years and I am converting to road bikes....What do you think about Giant Tcr Advanced 2016 model?
- Is it good for beginners?
- What is the perfect size for 1.78 cm Height?
- Can I do packaging with the bike
A little sad about the tire clearance and yeah, the ISP is pretty dumb. The isp clamp weighs more then an aftermarket seatpost! Can you measure the exact clearance on the rear tire? Use a hex key as a feeler gauge. I am curious what can fit in 650b.
The ISP.. yeah somewhat inconvenient but there are some advantages. Not true that it is heavier than seatpost alternatives available (like for like, total system weight). It means they can tune the whole bike layup to achieve desired characteristics. Increased stiffness to weight ratio, It doesn't ever slip or wear, and likely one less point of failure. Source: 5 years of happy riding on my own TCR with ISP..
I recently got a Domane+. Best climbing bike ever.
Thanks for saying your bike frame can be to ' stiff ' , to me there seems to be a tipping point were if the stiffness is to high over a multi-veriable road surface a stiff bike is actually slower !!
Trying to build mine up, disc vs rim brake, does it add alot of weight? Ty...thinking of ordering frame and building on up to my own road machine... 🤣 I know it's not a BMC 🤣
Would you recommend the SL over the Advanced Pro for slight flatter routes, with good road conditions?
What do you use for chain lube? I went down the wax "rabbit hole" and I am running "molten speedwax" on my triathlon bike and Giant Defy road bike. I am looking for a no BS Peak Torque and Hambini engineering answer as far what lubricant to use for daily use and racing. I don't mind the extra work of waking chains if is more efficient and the drive train would last longer. Thanks!
Adjustability is important as is not having the steer tube fail on an integrated system. If I bolt on too big a gear on my track bike, my saddle gets in the way when standing uphill!Talking about a stiff bike! Still worry about the carbon fork and aluminum steer tube interference though.
Yeah thst seems like a terrible idea love a carbon fork on a steel frame tho it feels like a having a 3mm suspension fork lol
What kind of rotors are you using on that wheel set? I got a pair of Ultegra disc calipers and I am currently using a shimano 105 rotors of 160 mm and a I looking forward to use Deore rotor of 160 mm, what do you think Ultegra calipers + Deore Rotors?
How is the Quarq holding up? contemplating to get one myself as I currently run left sided 4iiii
The ride sucks because of the ISP. I used to own one. A buddy of mine spent less and bought the SL (non Advanced) with same build as mine. I was floored at the comfort on that one. You can ride the non SL Advanced version all day in total comfort
Great video. Any problems with disc rub? I have new 2021 Defy advanced in M/L with hunt wheels. I get disc rub front and back. Giant say it’s not the frame, local AD says it’s not the brakes and hunt say it’s not the wheels?
Go back to rim brakes
Sorry, but in my books 7.7 kg is a lot of weight for that price. Sure, it's aero, it's got disc brakes, it's got Di2, it's got whatnot, but 7.7 kg is only slightly less than the weight of a 1.500-2.000€ rim brake bike of 3-4 years ago. For that money you could easily build a sub 6.8 kg bike so long as you ditch disc brakes and Di2 - and you might even be able to throw in some aero bits on it.
Whether aero is more important than weight is a whole topic of conversation, so much so when some people (me included) could not care less how fast they are on flats or descents, the only relevant bit is how fast and for how long they can climb in one go. Aero may be more important in a race, or more important to people who barely see a mountain once a year. But a 7.7 kg bike is still way too heavy for that price point.
Lol, another enthusiast pretending to be a pro, thinking that that 2-3 kg of weight actually matters.
Oh the irony, when the industry’s effort to push the scam of “aero” is being bottlenecks by the success of its previous “weight is everything” scam.
@@87togabito at what point did I pretend to be a pro? If anything, I pointed out that some people, me included, have other priorities than pros (i.e.: we don't care about winning races or marginal gains, we merely care about how we can make our climbing experience more enjoyable). At no point was I discussing success in any form or shape.
Funnily enough, you are exactly as dense as the last time I ran into you on RUclips.
XL frame + 28c tires + 50mm(?) rims is never going to be a weight weenie build. PT mentions that the handlebars and stem aren't optimized for weight either. It's not that you can't build a light version of the TCR, it's that PT didn't prioritize that.
@@Mamilian I'm not questioning his choices or priorities. I'm merely stating that any claim such as considering a 7.7 kg for a road bike to be light is far from the truth for this price point. A 7.7 kg bike can be considered light when you paid 2.000€ for it, not when you paid over 4.000€ or even more. For that price point, its weight is at best "not that heavy" if not "average".
Sure, it may be lightweight for a bike with disc brakes and Di2 and deep rims. But it's not a light bike at all, even less so when you look at its price tag.
@@11robotics He bought an XL frame, built a bike around that frame. This wasn't a packaged bike, so I'm not sure what cost point you're referencing. Also, 1kg over UCI legal isn't portly for an XL frame, with 28c tires and 50mm wheels.
It's very important to keep in mind that most of the "light" bikes other folks are reviewing are built around 52cm/54cm frames. Put some 30mm wheels wrapped in 25c tires, and swap out the bars for a carbon set and a lightweight aluminum stem, and you could easily drop 500g off that build.
Just curious, in your opinion would there be a difference in harshness or stiffness between the TCR Advanced SL Disc and Rim brakes?
Hola Peak Torque, antes que nada decir que tienes ina preciosa máquina de escalar. Disfruto mucho esta magnífica bicicleta de la que soy poseedor también. Quería preguntarte como has conseguido esconder tanto los cables de los frenos. Los has acortado? Un saludo amigo 👋🏻
Los cables de di2 son largos, así que uso bridas y algunas espumas en el freno.
are you smuggling raisins at 17:25??
How tall are you? I’m 6’5” and trying to decide between a XL or L propel advanced SL
IMO the best solution for the front end is semi-integrated. Cable entry ports in top of headset per Trek / Cannondale**, and then tape / tie cables to stem rather than having a fully integrated stem. Full flexibility for fit with whichever bars or stem you need, and the vast majority of the aero gains and neatness.
**no I'm not saying either company represents best practice, both have had other shit shows recently.
I watched a UAE tour bike tour video and most teams ran a setup like this because the mechanics were pared down and they didn't wanna deal with the shit and that says a lot
I've got the Defy Advanced pro with normal D-Fuse seat post and I find it overly stiff in comparison to the front, very little flex in the seat. I think simply comes down to the seat set back as mine is nearly all the way forward and not very high. No matter what marketing bs they tell can't beat mechanical leverage...same in your case I see, you sitbones are in line with the seat post.
That’s interesting. I’ve got one and thought the lack of comfort was likely because of the wooden feeling 32c Giant tyres. But maybe it’s not just the tyres.
Waiting for you to get your hands on the new Dura-Ace calipers (or ultegra i dont care) and doing a squeal / rub test. My Brother has a Disc TCR (Ultegra) And the dude, being light (65 kilos) cannot avoid the rubbing.
Rides of Japan did but he is too light. We need real humans testing it and not spiderpeople. Love RoJ tho.
I doubt I will be on those for a while as i just bought the nicer IMO 11sp group, unless we group fund a purchase so I can hammer the HELL out of them down that 950m climb (I am 92 kg in kit).
I have a Merida Scultura that I've been building , it's all built except it's missing a front derailleur. I need an Ultegra di2 unit, I've been looking all over for one. If there's anything you could do to help I would greatly appreciate it, I'm not asking for a free unit but just to buy one from a reliable source.
What stem computer mount is that? I have contact sl stem and I'm looking for a good wahoo/gopro out front mount.
My 2018 Felt VR4 has an odd oversized bar and stem clamp at 35mm, does that make it significantly stiffer over a standard bar/clamp combo or is it just there to annoy me? The steerer tube is 1 1/8”
So what is the force generated by the brakes and how much deflection does that cause to the fork? Also why does making suspension in formula cars stiffer decrease braking distance? The usual theory is that the lack of frontend dive reduces the weight transfer to the front and allows you to run greater rear bias, but you are saying maxing out the spring rates and damping to basically locked levels has the opposite effect? This doesn't happen in simulations, what is your reasoning (given a smooth surface ensuring good tyre contact at all times)?
Ahah, breaking distance is another matter. I spoke in the video about breaking feel and modulation. But good point.
What do you think about mechanical disc brakes?
Are there any good cheap Powermeter options for BB86? Seems like the SIGEYI won't work with my threaded BB86, and I really don't wanna swap to a DUB BB for the DFour Quarq.
P2M or sigeyi are both available in 24mm Rotor Aldhu. Straight install into bb86
@@PeakTorque Thanks lots for the help! So there's no way to recycle my R7000 crank?
@@GrouEEf You could go for power meter pedals if you want to keep the cranks. Something like Favero Assioma Uno (or Duo's) or replace the cranks with something like Power2Max.
What would the best lacing pattern be for the best possible breaking performance and highest modulation potential
How does the front wheel lacing/rim style affect braking feel?
Saw you couple days ago at the junction of marine hq off Ma Liu Shui
Re: seat tube angle - at low RPM up steep climbs the front wheel does want to lift a bit on the XL in my experience.
I can tell you that it does the same on a medium frame too .
Has the seat clamp issue with the ISP been resolved???
LOOK bikes use pf86 too. my 785 RS has been creak free since day one!
Loved the newer Gen TCR while in the saddle but the 2021 Advanced Pro 1 Disc felt horrible climbing and sprinting out the saddle. Couldn’t quite put my finger on why
Why?
Wondering how much of this transfers over to the TCX. Looking into that as I'm limited to having 1 road bike, and want one to do everything.
I have a TCX 2021, obviously not as stiff as the TCR Advanced SL but it’s definitely as stiff as most other road bikes, and tbh is quite aero looking, with some wide Zipp 303 Firecrests and some 28mm tyres it would be ideal
Such a beautiful paint job.
Am I seeing right that you are not running a ,5mm spacer above your stem?
I am riding a TCR too and was wondering wether it was necessary to run a spacer above the stem after cutting the steerer
There should be no spacers above the stem. The OD stem has a recess to accommodate the top cap which sits flush inside it. The steerer should be cut about 2mm shorter than the top of the stem to allow the flush finish.
That’s not what giant recommends in the instructions for the 2020 tcr advanced pro. Unless this is different.
@@pj9375 Mine is the 2016 pro1.
TBH, I did experiment with a 5mm spacer above. It resulted in the topcap bolt working loose regularly.
So returned back to normal and everything is snug now.
Theres a break in period for TCR's. The bb will flex a bit more over time. Makes it much more comfy
I can't believe any Giant bike could be stiff, I've test ridden dozens of them over the years and they've all been super noddles. If they changed that somehow in the last few years I'd be pleased.
No creaking noise in the bb?
Which saddleheight do you ride?
Why not get the rim break version of the TCR ?
I do own that
But not the SL
3.48 Left brake cable rubbing into the frame ?
I bought this same rim brake SL Frameset. The retailer says it doesn't come with ISP seat clamp? Did yours come with the seat clamp included?
It definitely does come with seat clamp. 100%. They're lying to you
@@PeakTorque I don't think they're lying, they haven't bothered to take the frame out of the box. They only see one plastic bag with the assorted small parts and go: "Yep, no seat clamp here."
Where was the seat clamp stashed in the box when you got the frame?
@@sand9577 somewhere in a bag i think. With this model there should be 2 clamps and a load of spacers. 1 short and 1 long clamp.
@@PeakTorque Thank you for the replies. I just got the frameset, no seat clamp whatsoever. I bought an MY16 clamp for the older frames, no way it's going to fit with the 2021 frame. I'll see if I can return the seat clamp.
Now comes the ordeal of figuring out where I'm going to get that seat clamp. Not many stores are delivering to Colombia, and those who do are charging 150 Euros, plus shipping and taxes for the MY21 seat clamp.
200 Euros is more money that what I paid for my old alloy bicycle that I retired into turbo trainer duty.
@@sand9577 was it from an official Giant dealer? If so, report them to Giant worldwide or Giant USA and maybe they can help you out. This frame 100% ships with the clamp!
What beautiful paint job.
Hi,this bike can go lower to 6.8 kg
Are those bars really narrow?
If you're changing your body position for different events regularly, you are going to be compromising the physiological adaptations that allow you to produce power.
What wheels are those?
I must have the only TCR with a creaking BB lol.
What computer mount is that?
OK, that is a heavy bar and stem. But 7.8kg is not light my any means. My Caad12 aluminum disc bike with aluminum wheels and ultegra shifting (and heavy bar and stem) is just over 8kg.
For an xl disc bike with 65mm wheels and more spokes than normal, its fine.
BB86 is the best, shame its beyond the realm of a lot of "manufactures" moulding skills to manufacture the bb shell to accommodate it
5:44 what do you mean by the "ISP version" ? Thanks
If anyone wonders it's integrated seatpost