Another wonderful debate by Dr. Brown- you delivered Dr. Brown just like you promised Dr. Munther Isaac. I found the debate extremely interesting not just because it dealt with the Jewish people but because it touched on the forever hot topic of Palestinians vs. Israelis and the division of the most sought after real estate on earth. I personally do not believe in replacement theology but at the same time I feel that Dr. Munther Isaac as a Palestinian Christian born in the land (I presume) is 100% entitled to live in an undivided Israel since Palestinian Christians are most likely the descendants of the early believers in Yeshua. I think the issue at hand is the identity of modern day Israel and Israelis. Is Israel supposed to be a Jewish state with ethnic & religious minorities or a multi-ethnic/religious state? I think God plans for it to become an ethnic Jewish state filled with believers in Yeshua (Jesus) in order to fulfill his promise to the Jewish people. That doesn't mean that Palestinian Christians or Muslims shouldn't be welcomed in Israel. To me God is testing the people in Israel to see if they can abide by his command to "love one another." Isaiah 62:1-5 NIV For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet, till her vindication shines out like dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch. The nations will see your vindication, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow. You will be a crown of splendor in the LORD's hand, a royal diadem in the hand of your God. No longer will they call you Deserted, or name your land Desolate. But you will be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah; for the LORD will take delight in you, and your land will be married. As a young man marries a young woman, so will your Builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.
Actually they are not descendants. Palestine was Yisrael, the term Palestinian was given the Jews by the Romans during their occupation of Yisrael. Descendants of Ishmael have their land it is not the same land.
Israel allows Palestinians to become citizens of Israel, 20% of Israel is Palestinian, but that’s not what most Palestinians want, they want the destruction of Israel and its replacement with an entirely Arab state. There are many Christian Palestinians in Israel and most of them want peace. Modern Israel is doing everything exactly right.
Your understanding of who the people of Israel is is incorrect your understanding of who the true and faith Israel is is incorrect Jesus Christ is the Israel of God and all who believe in him are the people of God ,the old covenant was made obeselete a new covenant was made built upon better promises that by faith in Jesus whosoever believes in Jesus as the messiah can have everlasting life .Zion was always a spiritual place !!
"I'm not claiming to be a son of Abraham, God in Christ made me a son of Abraham and no one can deny me that right- Munther Isaac" Debate over, Munther won.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) 10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
Thanks for this. I’ll share this video and these comments anytime someone claims that Christianity isn’t antisemetic and that it actively tries to erase the existence of Israel.
This is amazing Dr. Brown. You give an extremely well articulated defense of the doctrine of Israel, according to the Scripture. I found this video, (and gladly!!) since Dr. Isaac has recently received much attention due to his (misguided IMO) remarks on the State of Israel in the aftermath of October 7. When I hear him speak on Tucker, it became exceedingly clear that "replacement theology" was what allowed him to view modern Israel so unfavorably. May God bless you as you continue to fight the good fight.
On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel". Who was Peter speaking to? On that day about 3,000 Israelites became a part of the Church, which agrees with what Paul said in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5. When the Church began it was made up almost entirely of Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church". In James 1:1-3, James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes" who were his "brethren" in the "faith". Who was James speaking to? Who is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16? Who is replacing the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8? Who is replacing the "son" who is the "heir" to the land, with those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone" in Matthew chapter 21? Who is ignoring what Paul said about genealogies in Titus 3:9? I do not have to be circumcised, because Christ was circumcised in place of me. I have been circumcised in the heart, through the Spirit, as revealed by Paul in the Book of Romans. Who is ignoring the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and is specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24? Paul had to correct Peter because he was treating the Gentile believers differently than the Jewish believers. Some continue in this error today. .
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
Brown is just articulating a baptized form of nationalism while Rev Munther is Christ centric and Christ exalting. Very clear which is the genuine Christian position.
Interesting debate - Dr. Brown's citing of the Scriptures neglect the fact that all of God's promises to Abraham have been fulfilled firstly through King David and Solomon when they ruled the nation of Israel (i.e. the promised land) AND most importantly through Jesus Christ as Abraham's offspring (singular) who blesses the whole world, all nations provided we accept Jesus as our Lord & Savior. Nobody can see the Father and enjoy salvation without faith in Jesus. The heart of Christian Zionism is to diminish or even to totally eliminate Jesus and what He already did for us through His death and resurrection. Christian Zionism is anti Jesus, it is antichrist which pretends to be part of the body of Christ but has never been - exactly what's written in 1 John 2. Christian Zionism is the actual replacement theology - to replace Jesus with the golden calf the modern day state of Israel and to replace grace with the laws. It's either Jesus is a liar or we must repent. Pray that the Holy Spirit impart on us the courage and humility to seek and accept the absolute truth. God bless the innocents both Jews and Gentiles in Palestine, Israel, and worldwide.
Sometimes I wonder if people even read the New Testament. The covenant of Abraham is to him and his seed, which is Christ. Abraham's decendants are not after the flesh but after faith.
Dr. Brown...I am a Calvinist and a cessationist...and I absolutely LOVE your channel and your ministry. I try to watch all your videos. You inspire me always to be a better man and a stronger believer. Thank you for your passion and knowledge that are always sprinkled in grace - your passion and knowledge beautifully compliment one another.
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews…” John 8:42 - 8:48 “I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9 7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins. 1King9:7
And only 1 covenant and name under which you can be saved. There is no salvation outside of Jesus. There is neither Jew nor Gentile..only 1 body..the body of Christ.
What was nailed to the cross? “And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision (Gentiles) of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross” (Colossians 2:13-14). Not THE LAW, but the curse of the Law, which was death, separation from God. We Gentiles now have access to YHWH through Jesus. Are you calling Messiah a liar? Matthew 5:17-19. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Read Acts 24, Paul states as his defense before the Roman governor that HE follows the Law and therefore does NOT teach against it. What Paul taught was Gentiles do not have to become Jews (convert) to receive the forgiveness of sin.
This debate is heavy and has been going on between Believers for some time. I can’t get past this truth though- there is only ONE olive tree. Gentiles have been grafted in and will remain in, even though Dispensationalists want to rip us out at some point in the future. The wonderful news of the New Covenant is that ANY Jew can be grafted back in to the Olive tree, how? By faith in Christ, by taking on a NEW identity of being IN Christ which is superior to one’s genealogy.
@Kathy Qualls I agree with you,; however, i'd like to add that Dr.Brown is not a dispensationalist. In the Tanakh, it is clear that the Jewish people will remain in the land of Israel at the time before the day of the Lord (Zechariah 14:4-6, Joel 3:2, Isaiah 13:4, etc.) And that they will be saved in the time of the end ( Matthew 23:39, Luke 13:35, Acts 3:19,20)
This is a GREAT LECTURE TEACHING. Isaiah 56 and Isaiah 58 are great Chapters that help explain what Replacement Theology is not. Shalom - Blessed Love.
When a person has no cultural connection to Israel they feel discriminated, thus try to make a connection to the promises to the Jews for the Gentiles through Messiah. The truth is that God has a special place in his heart for the Jews because of his relationship with the original remanent of Adam, to Noah, to Moses, Abraham, all the way down to Messiah. The truth is that those that are in Christ outside of the Messianic Jewish culture are lucky and therefore blessed to take part in such benefits of the Jews in Messiah because while the orthodox Jews where a stiff neck people the gentiles where adopted into the faith through Messiah, absolutely amazing! Thank you heavenly Father you are so worthy of all praise, honor, and glory!
Oh my goodness!!! This was so meaty for the hunger we mature Christians desire...I definitely agree with brother Michael Brown !!! ....all Israel will be saved!!!
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews…” John 8:42 - 8:48 “I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9 7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins. 1King9:7
I bet myself a Pizza lunch that Dr Brown's opening remark would be about antisemitism and I'd like to thank him for being predictable. We dont re-write doctrine so as not to offend Jews because the of Nazis - we fought and defeated the Nazis for the sake of TRUTH. At the end of the day I see an AMERICAN telling a native born Palestinian that he has no right to live in the land he was born in.
I think Dr. Browns point about God scattering and God regathering seals it: Hear the word of the Lord , O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off, And say, "He who scattered Israel will gather him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock." Jeremiah 31:10
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews…” John 8:42 - 8:48 “I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9 7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins. 1King9:7
20:36 The man who is apparently representing the replacement theology side is definitely not the traditional replacement theology. I as a Messianic/Hebrew Rooter agree 100% with all that he said. Gentiles are grafted in, they are truly grafted in meaning they are not Gentiles anymore, they are taken as Israelites, true native-born Israelites, they are truly part of Israel and can say Avraham Avinu (Abraham our father) and David Avinu (David our father) with the rest of the Jewish people.
@Michael H. Good job taking that scripture out of context. Messiah says that in relation to the specific rabbinic title of Abba that was in most cases undeserved (Abba Shaul, Abba Yose ben Yochanan, Abba Chanan, Abba Chelphetha, Abba Gorion, etc.) Messiah was not talking about spiritual fathers or physical fathers. We know that because Paul called Timothy his son, therefore making Paul Timothy's spiritual father. And just look at scripture and see how many times people reference their physical fathers as "father". My comment is saying we actually join the family of Israel. Therefore Abraham is our father. That is specifically what God promised Abraham too. Remember "father of many nations" from Genesis.
You seem to imply that the true native-born Israelites aren't grafted in themselves. Gentiles don't become Jews they enter into the church(which is Christ). Gal 3:27-28 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.… This is the mystery of the church. It seems like you are making being an Israelite more important than being in Christ.
My dear Dr brown you are my heroe and i am your number one supporter when you debate rabbies defending our faith....BUT THERE IS ONLY ONE PEOPLE OF GOD NOT 2 ,ONE OLIVE TREE NOT TWO
Fascinating discussion between two believers in Messiah Yeshua. They both bring good points to the table and in mho the truth is sandwiched right in between. At some point during the discussion, Mr. Brown observes how throughout history it has been very difficult being identified as a Jew due to the centuries of persecution in the pogroms and culminating in the holocaust. . In the film, Fiddler on the Roof, Tevya puts it this way, 'I know, I know. We are Your chosen people. But, once in a while, can't You (talking to God) choose someone else?' My stance in all of this is, I have been grafted into The Olive Tree of Israel by faith. I do not adhere to dispensationalism or replacement theology. Nor do I believe that once we enter into Covenant with Abba we remain, gentiles (of the nation's) Once we are grafted we become full fledged heirs of the promises with similar privileges & responsabilities. When Messiah returns He will clarify all things then we'll understand fully. For now we discuss, debate, wrap ourselves aeound the axle and hopefully come to some concensus....maybe! Praised be He! 😊
Lina Keith very reasoned response. On this earth we see through a glass dimly. I believe this is why Jesus kept reminding his followers to love one another as it’s human nature to form camps then factions based on who has the Truth. The enemy loves this
babystinky, Munther makes the excellent point that we are one seed through Abraham. (Abraham was not Jewish as Jakob had not even been born yet). He offers the example of Ruth, David's grandmother who embraced belief in the El of Israel as did Rehab the prostitute. (she crossed over through faith & obedience). He makes the point that the multitude who left Egypt were of mixed background. There was the native born (Hebrew) as well as the foreigner coming together to worship the God of Israel.
babystinky, Munther also alluded to taking offense with those who would say that he is of Ishmael. Being of Middle Eastern background myself, I take issue with that notion. I have embraced belief in The God of Israel. I seek to be identified by His instructions and way of life. Yeshua is My Reedener.
The Book of Hebrews was about the Better in all things that came with Jesus as the new believers were being declared illegal and lost their possessions. One of the Better things listed was the Better Possession, juxtaposed against the conditional land covenant with Moses as that mediator. All things Better replaced all the old things that faded from its former glory.
I love dr. Brown's debate's & I've learned so much watching this Channel!! This one was fun to watch I enjoyed seeing that everything ended kind of giggly. Wondering is there going to be any more to this debate it mentioned at the beginning of it that there was another hour, so perhaps another video?
Tru G, I don't think they posted the second hour. I was present at this debate, but only caught the end of the second hour, and I was able to ask a question, which Dr Brown totally misunderstood. I would love to be able to hear this portion again.
@@veritas2145 “Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:11-22 ESV
Brown rejects that in Christ is all God's covenant promises realized and fulfilled. You cannot reject the Son and claim physical land promises, or else God wouldn't have brought judgement in AD 70. I think God's mercy is being confused with God's will. God is merciful to unbelieving nations and individuals all over the world. It is by God's mercy that Israel has been kept, not because of their ethnicity or blood line. All of those in Christ are God's people, not those who reject Him. I think there's an undercurrent in this discussion. Munther has a better grasp of the Gospel of Christ on the issue of all people being one in Him, but both of these brothers are really having a discussion over the land.
Diana Williams that is what it usually devolves into “the land the land” like they need a midget saying it so at least it’s funny - if the land was so important and holy - why is tel Aviv known as the gay capital of the world - common now - you mean dropping phosphorous bombs on your neighbours and shooting children is condoned by God ? You people must have some strange god - or as Jesus said to his disciples when they wanted to call down fire on their enemies like Elijah did “ you know not what spirit you are of” I would say they are many that are professing to be followers that do not know what spirit they are of.
Diana Williams not all professing Christians are believers, so do we throw the baby out with the bath water? God forbid. It’s pathetic how replacement advocates think that the world would be a paradise if only Israel was pushed into the sea.
B James we are not referring to any exotic way into heaven. That would be heresy. God has established an eternal land covenant with the descendants of Abraham. It’s in the Lord’s prayer, and when He sets up His Kingdom on earth as in heaven, peace will finally be realized, and the “times of the Gentiles” will be fulfilled. No other religious book has fulfilled prophecy, but ours. It establishes its divine origins and makes it trustworthy. Furthermore, we are urged always to be ready, because Christ came the first time, and it’s “high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.” (Ro 13:11)
@@mrdandrea I think I will convert to Judaism. That way I can reject Christ and still be saved. How about the Jew who died yesterday who doesn't believe Jesus came in the flesh? As far as I know 2nd John says that person is an Antichrist. Do anti-christs go to heaven? I guess so.
Romans 9:6-7 King James Version 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Dr. Brown: 1 Billion Chinese, 1 Billion Indians in the world today, Israel is older and only 14 Million of them in the world today. A great point to prove God's hand has continued to be upon Israel and His promises remain for them. If God does not fullfill His promises to Israel then we as Gentiles cannot trust He will keep His promises to us.
Irish people have a Ireland, Italians Italy, Poles Poland, Nigerians Nigeria but God forbid Jewish people have Israel! No other people have been promised a land by God in the Bible. So it’s always puzzled me that so many people in the bride of Christ voice opposition to what God has spoken so clearly. I chalk it up to good ole jealousy
Gear Barrel every other country in the world shares with other people the benefits of the land - home ownership - citizenship etc. When they don’t or attempt to subvert the rights of others - they are condemned for it - there is a concerted effort to ensure exclusivity for only one country without condemnation for their bad treatment of a group within (the Palestinians)
Alternate Man sure buddy-sure. That’s exactly how it works in North Korea in Saudi Arabia in Venezuela even in America. The only country in the world that Miss treats people is Israel. That’s an accurate portrayal of nothing
Gear Barrel - only thing that is preventing a full blown genocide is the eyes 👀 of the world 🌎. Isn’t it strange how when those being opposed are finally released from their oppression - they become the oppressors. Israel and South Africa are two prime examples. You would think they would have learned a valuable lesson from their oppression - but in reality the lesson was how to do “oppression” better than they did it to me. Sad 😞
Alternate Man yeah the perfect way to show people you aren’t the “oppressor is to allow avowed enemies entry into various Neighborhoods to kill innocent children. Sure that will prove Israel isn’t the oppressor. MAY God bless Israel for adding check points and closing down open travel to Palestinians who OPENLY-openly declare they want to kill every Jew worldwide. If the Israeli Jewish leadership publicly declared they want to kill every non-Jewish Israeli Palestinian THE WORLDWIDE OUTCRY WOULD BE DEAFENING . Sir will you decry Hamas and they calls to murderer Jews?!?!?!
Gear Barrel you have created your enemies and continue to do so - hey why not go after Iran next - then you can claim they were a danger ? Oh already doing that I see . Smart - one day it will catch up to you.
What Munther Isaac is looking at is the Kingdom Age as far as the land which will be the entire world belongs to believers both Jew and Gentile. In the here and now there are physical promises made to Israel THE NATION giving them THE LAND. Paul names THREE entities, Israel, Gentiles and THE CHURCH.
"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his SEED. Scripture does not say “and to SEEDS,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ." - Galatians 3:16
Seems like both have valid but conflicting bottom-line points that are not refuted by the other side, Thus the conclusion seems to have to be that the Scriptures are not consistent on this subject! On the other hand, Brown''s argument rested heavily on God's land promise to Israel. That argument seems easy to rebut: So the LORD gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there...Not one of all the LORD's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled. Joshua 21:43, 45 PROMISE FULFILLED! QED! But there's more. And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt... 1 Kings 4:21 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. Deuteronomy 30:17-18 Isaacs arguments, I thought, were more diverse and robust. Thus for me the scales tip decidedly his way even if Brown's land argument held some water. (Note: I do really like and respect Dr. Brown, and I read his books and watch his videos regularly. I just think he's got a blind spot on the whole question of the 'land of Israel.')
Dr Munter may have a genuiness to certain elements of antisemitism that takes place in the land. But what baffles me is his deafening silence by the Palestinians and their attrocities.
Vinod, who is living under occupation? It's like wondering what the rape victim did to deserve to be raped. If you listen to other talks by Munther, you will understand that he is against violence on both sides. Remove the occupation (after all the West Bank still belongs to Jordan) and there will be no need for resistance. But reality is that the law doesn't consider Palestinians as equal to Israelis.
You don't come with a bible in one hand and a weapon in another knock on the door telling Palestinians "God gave me your land, home and resources and expect to be loved" The terrible, unfortunate things that are happening over there are not for nothing, Christian Zionist are lending their hand to an extreme injustice, I say extreme because Christian Zionist believe this injustice is sanctioned by God. Modern Israeli Jews will say god gave us this land, but if you ask them if they believe in the bible most probable they would say no, most of them are atheist. which adds insult to the injury.
@19:00 He misses what Paul said about the jews being blind for the time of the gentiles and as far as the gospel is concerned they are an enemy, and yet to extend grace and mercy towards them, not hate them. And as explained elsewhere and implied right there is this same place this implies that its not permanent, but only thru the time of the gentiles and then their (jews) sight is returned. The mystery is the two are joined, yet have their own individual paths set before them until all on this earth is finished and ultimately all united in the Kingdom before Christ hands it over to the Father. So still all one in Christ. Same family. But the flesh still has a covenant. Spiritually it’s one and the same and all done thru Christ.
I'm biased in favour of Dr Brown's position. But really, I think it's fair to way he won this debate quite easily. The biblical arguments to refute replacement theology are very sound
@ 55:36 the expression of a man whose intellectual agreement with the scriptures as Dr. Brown has presented confronts his will which says "It can't be..."
At 42 mins Dr. Isaac says he finds no place in the Bible where it makes a distinction between “spiritual Israel and physical Israel”’. Good sir that is exactly what Paul meant when he says “not Israel is Israel” he is making this very distinction among physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham.
Gear Barrel What Paul is saying is something like this...noT all Catholics are Catholics, just because you were born this way doesn't mean you STAY THIS WAY. He is talking about ETHNIC ISRAEL. Not All Ethnic Israel are the REMNANT who are part Of Ethnic Israel, since many of Israel rejected messiah. He is not talking about Gentiles becoming Israel
babystinky no he is saying those who claim to be Israel - Jews who do not believe - have hardened themselves - as in the Talmudic concept of Jesus / Mary / God and the chosen people of God. In case you didn’t notice the Old Testament promises (unlike the New Testament) are conditional hence the word “if” is used - if I sign a contract with you stating I owe you money - then that’s unconditional - if I say I owe you money if you produce and provide a service for me then you must fulfill your end in order to claim the promise of payment - it’s no different here - if you will repent and make me your God and have no other gods before me I will heal your land etc.etc. So many chose to miss or skip over that “tiny” little detail - especially those who claim the promises without fulfilling the bargain. Of course now since God has cancelled the agreement and given a certificate of divorcement there is a new covenant they are still eligible to be included under - the same one as the rest of mankind - that is accepting Jesus as lord and saviour which requires humility - of course that is an issue where pride is concerned so until Zech happens I’m afraid they are in for a rocky ride: The description of God's ultimate plan for Israel: "In all the land ... two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left ... I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." [Zech 13:8-9]
Aternate Man, Yes Israel is hardened. That means Israel *isn't the Church* I agree. However, Ezekiel 36, proves that Israel doesn't meet the conditional *IF* they obey, as God decides to have Mercy on account of His Holy Name Ezekiel 36 19 I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. 20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone. 22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes. “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
A slice of land has nothing to do with salvation in Christ and bearing the fruits of Christs kingdom. Matthew 21:42-43 KJV [42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? [43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Thank you Dr Munther Isaac. What a straight forward simple and biblical understanding. This is always what I though but was led away by the predominant eschatology prevailing in America. Now with September 20th 2020 just around the corner, those that think the generation that saw Israel became a nation in 1948 would see the fulfillment of the verse where Jesus stated the Luke 21 fig tree parable. So when September 20th 2020 comes and goes and we are not raptured then the whole dispensation theology falls apart.
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews…” John 8:42 - 8:48 “I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9 7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins. 1King9:7
I don’t see how people think Dr. Brown on this debate. He clearly was getting agitated and questioning more aggressively and mischaracterized his opponents views. He had at least three strawmen I counted. And his conclusion was basically Israel gets certain promises and gentile believers get certain promises, distinguished by race. That seems so contrary to Jesus’ life and teaching. He even sarcastically said at the end “you want the promises for Israel? Circumcise yourself!” Paul said multiple times in his writings that circumcision counts for nothing in Christ.
Look i put my all my hope of heaven in Jesus. If I'm wrong then all I did was live a better life for the teachings of Jesus do nothing but make you a more patient loving forgiving person. If Jesus is not the savior, by believing in him I have nothing to lose. If he is I have everything to gain By putting all my faith in him. By Believing in Jesus you can't lose no matter what! He is the messiah but I think I make a valid point.
Only if I get circumcised am I fully heir with Abraham? What kind of nonsense is this. I love Dr Brown, but his insistence on being "right" here is really not cutting it.
ChiliMcFly1 1 Timothy 1:4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.
Funny how the Palestinian priest is scared that Israel could someday triple in size. That’s would still make it smaller than most nations and tiny compared to Arab lands. I guess he would be happiest if Israel was treading water out in the Mediterranean.
Dr Isaac's point at the end was decisive: If the old covenant is still in place, if ethnic Jews are still set apart, then I as a gentile can get circumcised and keep the law, then I become part of the commonwealth of Israel (like Ruth) and thus inherit the O.T. promises (land, etc). The point of Galatians is to show the folly of doing that.
Yes it is foolish for the Galatians because Paul's main point in that letter was about justification before God. He says that following the law does not save anyone that's why it's foolish for them to try to put themselves under the law especially because they were not Jewish. Paul never forbade his fellow Jews to follow the law, in fact he made it a point to follow the customs when he went back to Jerusalem to show the Jews that he's not denying Jewish laws as a Jew. Paul understands that God is not done with the Jews which he clearly explained in Romans 11.
Thanks for the thoughtful response Jekris. Couple things: I would argue Paul did rebuke his fellow Jews in Galatians 2 for following the law. Peter was eating with uncircumcised gentiles (forbidden by Judaism), then separates from them when Judaizers come. Paul rebukes him, basically saying in v.14 "You've been living like a free gentile, Peter, no longer adhering to the Jewish divisions, but now you're separating yourself ('keeping the law'). Shame on you for going back under the Jewish law and expecting these gentiles to get circumcised in order to table fellowship with you!" Paul's point is that there is one People of God, not two, and that Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ. Justification is not just about being declared righteous before God, it's also entrance into the one people of God. Paul says that to rebuild and maintain the division is sin (v.18 - building again that which has been torn down). To your point about Paul keeping Jewish customs, I would say he kept them (and had Timothy snipped Acts 16:3) not because he was a Jew, but to be a "Jew to reach the Jews" (1 Cor 9:20). In other words, wear a kippah when you go to the wailing wall. Have your wife wear a skirt and head covering to reach the Amish. No need to be offensive. Remember, O.T. Israel was never an exclusively ethnic Jewish entity. A mixed multitude went up out of Egypt (Ex 12:38). Also Ruth and Rahab. In fact, any gentile could get circumcised, keep the law, and join Israel (Ex 12:49). And that was my original point. If the O.T. is still intact, I as a gentile could put myself under the law and thus be entitled to a piece of the land, promises, etc. As far as Romans 11, that's a whole other ball of wax, if you wanna get into it! But whatever it means, I believe Christian Zionism is anathema. Jesus did not support the Jewish zealots of his day, and neither should we! I think I'll make that it's own comment...
@@rosco1733 eating with uncircumcised gentiles was forbidden cause they weren't allowed to mix with the unclean. But the point was that belief in christ makes one clean (justified). That is what Peter's dream of unclean food was all about. Furthermore when pual rebukes him he makes it a point to day he is acting like a "Gentile sinner." Which for Peter would have been a huge smack in the face. Paul tells him how are you going to get them to act like Jews when your acting like a gentile. He continues to say that as Jews we know better than the rest that the law cant justify us only faith in Christ brings about that Grace. But this was never to speak agianst the law. He argues that the law is good and needed and the thing that tells us when we sin. Galatians is Paul arguing agianst the false Gospel that we must become justified by the law first then we get Jesus. That is what he is arguing agianst. He doesnt argue agianst observing the law. That would be a sin in and if itself according to God's own words. Paul would never do that Plus the Church of the Galatians was primarily composed of Gentiles that were pagans not Jews. Of course there were Jews that were there but the majority of those people won't were not Jewish hence the whole idea about getting circumcised was an issue. Heck I believe it was in Acts 14 and 15 were Paul is preaching to these people and pretty much says these were Pagan Gentiles they even try to worship Him.
@@nathanieldiaz2845 I think I agree with you, at least the first part. Except when Paul says Peter has been living like a Gentile, I don't think he is saying that Peter has been living like a Gentile "sinner." I think he is basically saying "Peter, you have been living like a Gentile in the sense that you haven't been observing clean/unclean distinctions. You've been eating with Gentiles. But now, when the peeps from James come, suddenly you're acting like a Jew again, observing divisions." Check out the NLT translation of Gal 2:14. I think they nailed it: “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?" Check out the NLT's translation of v.17-19: "17 But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! 18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down. 19 For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law-I stopped trying to meet all its requirements-so that I might live for God." I believe Paul is actually calling the Jews to abandon those aspects of the law that kept them separated (circumcision, food laws, not mixing diverse fabrics, observing purity laws, "unclean til evening", etc) but obviously not abandon the moral aspect of God's law, to love God and love others. If they wanted to keep doing these things as a matter of culture, fine I guess, but don't make these things the "ticket of admission" into the people of God, as the Circumcision Party was.
@@rosco1733 Hey there this is a huge reply so please bare with me!! Read when you have time!! 😅 I have gone back and re-edit this a couple times before posting to fix any errors however I'm not perfect so hopefully I fixed all errors that are present in it feel free to ask me any questions about anything I wrote if it's not clear. I like NLT alot, however when doing in-depth studies I don't rely on that version too much. it usually is the first version I will read when I'm going to read anything from the Bible and then I go back and read it in a few different other versions that are more word for word in there translation as NLT is not a word for word translation majority of the time.Nor do they claim to be. They are a so called thought for thought translation. Or a "dynamic" translation. I would suggest ESV, TLV, HCSB, NKJV, or the NASB for deep diving. EXTREMELY IMPORTANT when dealing with cult off shots of the Gospel such as Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons, but anyway back to the topic at hand Then the rest of the Jews joined his hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were deviating from the truth of the gospel, I told Cephas in front of everyone, “If you, who are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel Gentiles to live like Jews? ” We who are Jews by birth and not “Gentile sinners” know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified. But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not! Galatians 2:13-17 HCSB Just so you know in verse 15 even the NLT says gentile sinners. That said this is a snippet that focuses on the verses in question but obviously I encourage you to reread the whole book with what I bring up in mind. I promise to do the same for anything you bring up as well. So like I said in the prior post Paul accuses him of being like a gentile sinner. NLT gets the verse 14 very incorrect due to their style of para-phrasing, unfortunate but true. If you look at a word for word translation you will never get that interpretation. This is why for in depth study always go for a version that has a direct word for word as much as possible. So you mentioned these verses as well. But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild the system I tore down, I show myself to be a lawbreaker. For through the law I have died to the law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing. Galatians 2:17-21 HCSB There is that part where he says gentile sinners. There is a reason for this dichotomy. Remember Paul calls gentiles who believe in Christ and don't use the law for righteousness a true Jew in Roman's. So he accuses Peter of not being like a Jew. For being a Jew by birth he should know better. The whole reason behind a separation between Jews and Gentile in the first place was to keep Jews from adopting incorrect or Idol worshipping like culture from the Gentiles. But by accepting Jesus these Gentiles, who Peter separated from, were grafted in and no longer to be treated as before. But by separating from them he confirmed (intentional or not) that they were indeed still not part of the fellowship. In this case due specifically to circumcision. This was worng and not the true Gospel. As we know no amount of sin separates us from christ if we genuinely turn to him. So if while we seek to be justified by Christ and we still mess up or are not perfect by the standards of the law THIS IS OK because the Law doesnt justify us anyway. Obviously this doesn't mean we keep on sinning. For even Paul says that in Roman's and elsewhere. Plus Jesus always said now go and sin no more. But I ask what is sin? It's anything agianst the law of God. So is Jesus a promoter of doing that (sinning) No!! I hope you are tracking with me so far. Now it's not the letter of the law we are to keep but the spirit or principle behind it. Which means on some cases certain laws about the clothing for example arent meant to be kept literally in a modern setting. (I hope you understood what those laws were actually about) However in other cases such as keeping the feast that God literally said are his days and will be everlasting... well the principle behind that is God said to love the Lord your God and follow his commands. He has days he wants to celebrate with us that represent his story with us, not just Israel!! Its quite beautiful actually. Anyway the point of galatians isn't that the law is abolished or that we are no longer to try to follow it. God actually said cursed is anyone who says such a thing. It's that we are never justified by the law. Side note:This is also why many modern day Jews dont accept Jesus because they are told he does away with the Torah/law. Within the Torah God said anyone who claims this is a false Prophet. The problem is that Jesus doesnt do away with the law so the modern Jew rejects a strawman Jesus. Unfortunately many Christian's argue for that same Jesus that the Jews reject. This is depressingly sad when you truly think about it. Not sure if your married, if you are this should make sense. There are no doubt things that your spouse considers important to them and there might be things that they kind of expected you to do whether it's in the house or with the kids, if you have any, or whatever the case may be. Maybe certain days are importance of them such as anniversaries or maybe the first day you meant or started dating or maybe the first day that you did something big together who knows I think you get my point. You Don't do those things in order to have their love, you do those things because you already have their love. So we don't follow the law or attempt to follow the law so as to have God's love or to be justified by God no we attempt to follow the law because we are already justified by our faith in Christ and out of our love for God we wish to follow him. How does one follow God well he has a whole list of stuff that he said do this keep my commands it shows you love me so do them it's that simple we make it very hard and we try to make it this big thing when it's not, it's just really simple follow the law because you love God not because you're trying to earn his love, but because he loves you so why not. Just remember that the old system that was torn down was the system of how we connect to God. We connected to God in the old system by attempting to fulfill the law. If you messed up there were sacrifices that had to be made and unfortunately you had to do a sacrifice for every time or every year because you were constantly messing up and you had to keep separated from anybody and everyone who wasn't attempting to follow the law because they were Gentile sinners. They weren't Righteous. Overtime thou the Jews forgot that they arent righteous either. This is the problem that Jesus confronted. They thought their righteousness came through the law. It was ingrained in them to think that due to man's traditions. Yet even in the OT it was made clear that righteousness couldn't be obtained by man. Not even the great "Heros" of the OT were perfect. But man Has a way of messing things up. Look at the catholic church. They made the same exact mistake (maybe even worse) than this circumcision party that Paul was confronting made. Just like the Jews of old they made man made rules by which one can access God. Sorry hopefully my rant helps lol One last thing I just want to say there's a lot of the law that has to do keeping away from idol worship and Pagan practices. To follow the specifics of Those portions of the law wouldn't be too fruitful today cuz the reality is today's Pagan practices and today's idol worship isn't really the same or done the same way as it was back then. So we can't really follow the letter of the law in some of those areas and think that we're fulfilling the principal for which the law stood when it comes to Pagan worship and idol worship and stuff within a modern setting. So depending on where you live in the culture of the area you live there might be certain things that you would have to keep away from as to not accidentally intermixed with your cultures version of idol worship. But see that would be taking the principle of the law and applying it to your situation because the letter of the law wouldn't help you too much in your situation when it comes to those things. I think that is a aspect of the law that many of us forget. And makes it that much easier to dismiss the law. Which is unfortunate.
The Jews refuse to accept Christ's words in John 18:36 'Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world."' They pushed away the new covenant, which was given to the Jews first by God, killed his Christ and then say: "Now keep your promise to us!" You can even hear their arrogance in the voice of dr. Brown in this debate. I think dr. Isaac made very good points here, especially at around 16:52-18:23 "The gentiles didn't replace the Jews, they joined Israel. The church, consisting of Jews and gentiles, is the natural continuation of the story of Israel. Jews are not replaced nor rejected. God has not uprooted the olive tree of Israel, but has crafted into the tree new branches. There is one people of God, not two peoples of God. There is one flock (not two), one shepherd." (John 10:16) At 55:22 dr. Isaac completely destroys dr. Brown's arguments by showing how dr. Brown makes the bible not completely applicable for all Christians, asking him can I call Abraham my father and can I take the promises that God made to Abraham? If not, take the bible and highlight which parts are applicable for me and which parts are only for the Jews. Then dr. Brown makes the redicilous argument: "If you want in... circumcise your sons!" I'm a Christian, not a Jew, but I'm circumcised... so does the land also belong to me?
Maybe you don;' like his accent but, you've just listened, it indeed you listened to the substance and reality of the promise made to Abraham was to bring universal salvation to the people of the world.
So we should as Christians feel guilt, ignore the truth and the substance of our hope, because of all the pain and suffering it has brought Jewish people through out millennia according to Dr. Micheal Brown, whose side is he on?
Jesus is Israel - if you are in Him then you are in Israel - if you are not in Christ, then you are not in Israel. When Jews are in Christ they are the natural branches of the vine, when they reject him they are cut off and thrown into the fire. We are the grafted in branches - but it remains: you must be in the vine and Jesus is the vine. Why else would Jesus preach to JEWS that they MUST be born again and believe. Show me a Jew whose righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees - you wont find one. "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:20
It's so sad that we didn't get to listen to the audience's questions, was this recorded? I would love to listen to their questions and hear the responses.
Jesus did not support the Jewish zealots of his day, and neither should we! "Political Zionism and Christian Zionism are anathema to Christian faith." -John Stott
I've been in the protestant church since 1988. Till this day I still hear people say the same thing. As a Jewish Anus I calmly held my peace. But on day I asked a pastor this question. If GOD replaced the church 4 Israel then GOD brakes his own Laws. GOD would be divorcing Israel and abandoning us. Yet, God asks Israel, ( Isaiah 50:1) where is the certificate of divorce? And Ekekiel 16;32-34 He calls Israel an adulterous wife. Israel is the WIFE of The FATHER, the church is going to be tge bride of Jesus! Jesus signed the ketubah when they took the last supper (sedder meal). And we will drink the wine amd bread in the wedding of the lamb. Another thing, Israel's reward in the land of Israel, but the church gets the new Jerusalem. We don't all get the same rewards. Plainly under stand this ,please. Israel is held with more responsibly than gentiles. If a gentile wants the same rewards as a Jew, they must be circumcised and for fill ALL (613) THE LAWS! as Paul says, even in this God shows a difference. In the churches that I have been member of ,they all try to make me follow the gentile ways. But I follow what The Scriptures say! And I do it how it says and NOT my way. Israelites are not forgotten by God!! Gentiles are trying to replace us rather than be 1 in Y'Shua. Amein, Shalom
Elichai Peretz actually it’s you who are divorcing God by not believing in Jesus. The olive tree which is still Israel is still there but individual Jews are broken off due to unbelief.
@@matthewsouthwell3500 all you wrote was wrong. Well done. God is faithful even when Israel isn't always has been always will be. Replacement theology is wrong. The church doesn't replace Israel, we are separate, do not call yourself a jew when you're not. This has been happening since the beginning and Paul teaches against it.
There is no such thing as re- placement theology, the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation is all about Jesus. This book is not about Israel, it is about God's love for all mankind, that he came and died for all mankind to redeem them from there sins, the high way to hell. He came an died for Jews and Gentiles alike, to save both from there sins. Israel cannot save you, only JESUS CAN! He choose one nation to accomplish this task, not because they were better than the other nations around them, but because of His grace and mercy for all mankind. Through Israel, the messiah would come to save all mankind. Through Abraham seed, all of the nations of the world would be blessed. That blessings was Jesus who died upon that cross at calvary for Jews and Gentiles alike to redeem them from there sins. There rebellion against the Lord Thy God: JESUS! " For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" ( John 3: 16). Israel cannot save you, only JESUS CAN, it is all about JESUS: THE ALPHA AND OMEGA!
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:28-29 KJV How did this scripture get left out?
Dr. Brown, in the Apostle Paul's allegory, the slave woman, Hagar, corresponds to the earthly Jerusalem, who with her children are enslaved (Gal.4:25) and will "not inherit" with the son of the free woman (v.30). I urge everyone to listen to NT Wright's presentation of Israel in Pauline Theology where he covers 10 distinguishing marks of Israel.
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews…” John 8:42 - 8:48 “I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9 7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins. 1King9:7
What a rude priest... I think that mostly he just want to exalt himself (and his book) being a Palestinian and how angry he is that the promised land belongs to Israel. What about Yeshua saying “I haven’t come for anyone else but for the lost sheep of Israel”?? We all need to be grafted into the nation of Israel (just like a slaves in Egypt when Hebrews left the pharaoh) to become one of them, to believe in God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We can all believe but sooner or later we have to follow the same commandments/instructions that YHVH gave to us. This priest is missing the whole point...
Calvin Peterson exactly because the church has always been Israel. The gentiles were “grafted” in. The unbelieving jews were cut off from Israel. It’s not that complicated to understand. All you have to realize is that Israel was always the church, congregation of the Lord.
@@livepoetic390 Not grafted into Israel but rather grafted into Christ. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." ~ John 15:5
@@livepoetic390 That’s simply false, the church is not Israel. That’s why God still has a plan to save Israel during the tribulation period, whilst the church is already saved.
I think the disagreement at the end comes down to which Jerusalem the Jews and Gentiles inherit together & which Jerusalem is promised to the people of Israel, the natural descendants of Abraham. We live in a now but not yet reality where the fullness of the new has not yet been made manifest. The Jerusalem that is of this world is part of the promised land promised to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Jerusalem, that is part of the new creation is the inheritance of all the children of Abraham, including those gentiles who by faith become Abraham’s children.
Joshua 23:14 And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. 15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. 16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you. The geographic promises made to Israel were fulfilled in the book of Joshua. The promises made in Jeremiah and Isaiah were for the return after Babylonian captivity. There is no doubt that God kept that promise to return the Jews to Israel after the Babylonian captivity in order for Christ to be born into Israel fulfilling the Messianic prophecies. This is not hard to understand when viewed in the historical context of Israel and the Babylonian captivity. Dr. Brown says "The big thing is salvation". I would add these verses from 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. So Christ rejecting Israel denies the Lord Jesus and somehow we are "spiritually" brothers? Not hardly. This does not mean we are to hate or be "anti" anyone. All in all it is about the Lord Jesus Christ. Peter says all of this will be destroyed, melted away. It is about Christ and His finished work and nothing else.
All the promises of God find their 'yes' in Christ. Christ is our priest, king, prophet, sacrifice for sin, fulfillment of the holy Law of God, Sabbath rest, temple (where we meet with God), and he leads all his people into the promised land a heavenly country a city prepared for them and certain, as in Hebrews which is the same land the OT saints where looking toward. I have trouble with what I consider a low Christology that implies Jesus didn't fulfill the land promises and they must be fulfilled by God in this current world apart from Christ.
I'm at 23:50+ where Brown says the promises (whatever they are) were to the physical descendants of Abraham. Ok, but where are those physical descendants going to come from since there are no identifiable physical descendants of Abraham today. As I understand it, there are no existing genealogies to substantiate such a lineage for anybody. I suppose you could say, well, God knows who they are (or will be). But there is a very murky problem with how much DNA from Abraham you'd need to qualify, and I think it's probably likely that having some non-zero fraction would include a great number of the world's population across the globe. That this great mass of people would somehow inherit the land of Israel seems nonsensical. Thus Brown's 'physical' argument seems to me to fall flat from the git-go.
Very interesting to listen to you both I know this was made 5 years ago I wonder if that same debate happened today if anything would be different. People that I have discussed this issue with with at least in my opinion seem to be people who really don't know God's word. Like Dr Michael Brown said there's hundreds of verses referring to the land. To say now that it's all negated and doesn't mean anything now, after the coming of Christ doesn't make any sense of course in view of the word of God! Even here in the New Testament Paul makes a distinction between Jews and Greeks "Gentiles" This is not the Old Testament the New Testament Why in the world would God have the apostle Paul make a distinction here????? It's because the promises to physical Israel still count!!! Romans 2:9-10 NASB1995 [9] There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, [10] but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Dr. Brown, Please explain Isaiah 56:1-8, 66:23 if you believe the land of Israel is only for the physical tribes: Jews (and Ephraim). I agree with your statement on circumcision (56:20), though I doubt you meant it. First rule to Abram was to circumcise all males in his household. That still applies to any who want to be part of the covenant. Circumcision marks me as a son of Abraham, but it does not necessarily make me part of Judah.
QUESTION In Hebrews 7:27, 10:11-12&18, we're taught that Jesus is the final sin offering, and Romans 6:10 says that he died to sin once and for all. But in Ezekiel 45, a prophecy which has yet to be fulfilled, we're told in verse 22 that the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land. If Jesus is the prince, why would he need to provide a sin offering on behalf of his sinless self, and would any sin offering need to take place if Jesus is the final sin offering? Thanks
The messiah coming into the world is not what dissolved the covenant. The death of the messiah is. Read your Bible thoroughly. Deut 28:15,64, 29:1,14-15, 30:1-6, 1 King 11:31-39, Jeremiah 3, Jer 50:17, Micah 2:12, Ezek 11:16,17, Ezek 16 Ezek 23, Ezek 34:12, John 10:3,4,7,11,14-16, 1 Peter 1:1-2, James 1:1-2, Amos 9:9, Romans 9:24-28, Hosea 1:3-11, Eph 2, Rev 11:3-4, Rev 17,18. God Bless.
What "Abrahamic Covenant" does the moderator constantly refer to? Is he inferring that the Mosaic Covenant must be rolled into it, as well? If so, I disagree violently
Rahab joined his people therefore she is an Israelite and by extension therefore there is no ethnic favoritism on Gods part. Now that is an example of extending an idea way out of context. Trying to make new rules out of exceptions.
The problem has many sides. 1. You can't say that the promise to Abraham/ Israel is just ME real estate. You cant say its occupation is not conditional 2. To equate armed force as a Kingdom sanctioned method to accheive Gods Kibgdom via territorial objectives is 100 % faulty. Any christian view which sees the " progress of a secular state" as a key input to the extension of Gods Kingdom needs to revisit its great commission obligations. 3. The church is a peacemaker. The Church should be doing everything it can to stop violence and to encourage a just and equitable settlement of this problem. If the church in South Africa could stand up to right wing extremism, then both the state of Israel and the West bank need to hear rhe church Israel is a secular state. It has no bill of rights. A poor constitution. No freedom to preach the Gospel!! - imrisonment. 4. The present reality is two peoples r calling out for justice. They are, of course, their own authors of justice= with the churches support. Jesus is Lord Its his World, his creation. . His purposes are all defining = not some demeaned outcome consisting of a piece of Land. As opposed to the cosmos.
This is the difference between an Anti-Semite and a Christian. There is no salvation in believing the Jews killed Jesus there is only salvation in knowing it is the will of God. Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Salvation comes from God, not man. 1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
All is right about God’s Covenant, who is promise keeper . Then the question arose that … the God died on the Cross . I think - learnt that both covenant hold , who dies … the covenant is full filled . Am I wrong ? Jesus gave us new Covenant love the God and your neighbor. …
All of Abrahams' household was circumcised. So the descendants of Esau and Ishmuel were circumcised. The promise of the land was given to the descendants of Jacob. His twelve sons were the one who got the land of Canaan. Dr. Brown walked into a trap.
I was wondering in Jews for Judisiam..do they still hold on to the law of Moses to stone those caught in adultery? And if not how did this change in Jews for Judisiam if they hold on to the whole law of Moses? Or do they still practice this? I know this was done away with Yeshua , so we can have everlasting life through him as in John 8 , Romans6
Another wonderful debate by Dr. Brown- you delivered Dr. Brown just like you promised Dr. Munther Isaac. I found the debate extremely interesting not just because it dealt with the Jewish people but because it touched on the forever hot topic of Palestinians vs. Israelis and the division of the most sought after real estate on earth. I personally do not believe in replacement theology but at the same time I feel that Dr. Munther Isaac as a Palestinian Christian born in the land (I presume) is 100% entitled to live in an undivided Israel since Palestinian Christians are most likely the descendants of the early believers in Yeshua. I think the issue at hand is the identity of modern day Israel and Israelis. Is Israel supposed to be a Jewish state with ethnic & religious minorities or a multi-ethnic/religious state? I think God plans for it to become an ethnic Jewish state filled with believers in Yeshua (Jesus) in order to fulfill his promise to the Jewish people. That doesn't mean that Palestinian Christians or Muslims shouldn't be welcomed in Israel. To me God is testing the people in Israel to see if they can abide by his command to "love one another."
Isaiah 62:1-5 NIV
For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet, till her vindication shines out like dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch. The nations will see your vindication, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow. You will be a crown of splendor in the LORD's hand, a royal diadem in the hand of your God. No longer will they call you Deserted, or name your land Desolate. But you will be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah; for the LORD will take delight in you, and your land will be married. As a young man marries a young woman, so will your Builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.
elConsciente NY well said freind I agree ..your comments are very timely and informative..thank you so much...I enjoyed it ..God bless you!!!
Actually they are not descendants. Palestine was Yisrael, the term Palestinian was given the Jews by the Romans during their occupation of Yisrael. Descendants of Ishmael have their land it is not the same land.
I was lifted in spirit when I read your comment.
Israel allows Palestinians to become citizens of Israel, 20% of Israel is Palestinian, but that’s not what most Palestinians want, they want the destruction of Israel and its replacement with an entirely Arab state. There are many Christian Palestinians in Israel and most of them want peace. Modern Israel is doing everything exactly right.
Your understanding of who the people of Israel is is incorrect your understanding of who the true and faith Israel is is incorrect Jesus Christ is the Israel of God and all who believe in him are the people of God ,the old covenant was made obeselete a new covenant was made built upon better promises that by faith in Jesus whosoever believes in Jesus as the messiah can have everlasting life .Zion was always a spiritual place !!
"I'm not claiming to be a son of Abraham, God in Christ made me a son of Abraham and no one can deny me that right- Munther Isaac" Debate over, Munther won.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants?
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9)
10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
Thanks for this. I’ll share this video and these comments anytime someone claims that Christianity isn’t antisemetic and that it actively tries to erase the existence of Israel.
@@avibenavrahamDr Muncher Isaac is a semite by ancestry
Hardly. He's only giving his statement as one who's not biologically born a descendant of Abraham but one who's born in the spirit sense.
This is amazing Dr. Brown. You give an extremely well articulated defense of the doctrine of Israel, according to the Scripture. I found this video, (and gladly!!) since Dr. Isaac has recently received much attention due to his (misguided IMO) remarks on the State of Israel in the aftermath of October 7. When I hear him speak on Tucker, it became exceedingly clear that "replacement theology" was what allowed him to view modern Israel so unfavorably. May God bless you as you continue to fight the good fight.
On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel". Who was Peter speaking to? On that day about 3,000 Israelites became a part of the Church, which agrees with what Paul said in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5. When the Church began it was made up almost entirely of Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church". In James 1:1-3, James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes" who were his "brethren" in the "faith". Who was James speaking to? Who is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16? Who is replacing the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8? Who is replacing the "son" who is the "heir" to the land, with those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone" in Matthew chapter 21? Who is ignoring what Paul said about genealogies in Titus 3:9?
I do not have to be circumcised, because Christ was circumcised in place of me.
I have been circumcised in the heart, through the Spirit, as revealed by Paul in the Book of Romans.
Who is ignoring the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and is specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24?
Paul had to correct Peter because he was treating the Gentile believers differently than the Jewish believers. Some continue in this error today.
.
Thank you
Dr. Munther won this debate hands down using scripture. Let the word of God interpret itself.
They literally said this isn’t a debate 😂😂
@@carlosquinones2242 Literally it was though 😂
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
The title of the video (posted by one of the two debaters) "literally" states "Dr Michael Brown DEBATES Dr. Munther Isaac".
ABSOLUTELY, Dr. Brown is trying to JUSTIFY keeping up separate! SHAME
Brown is just articulating a baptized form of nationalism while Rev Munther is Christ centric and Christ exalting. Very clear which is the genuine Christian position.
Dr Munther’s argument is very Christ centered! Dr. Brown seems to be Israel centered. Very interesting
Interesting debate - Dr. Brown's citing of the Scriptures neglect the fact that all of God's promises to Abraham have been fulfilled firstly through King David and Solomon when they ruled the nation of Israel (i.e. the promised land) AND most importantly through Jesus Christ as Abraham's offspring (singular) who blesses the whole world, all nations provided we accept Jesus as our Lord & Savior. Nobody can see the Father and enjoy salvation without faith in Jesus. The heart of Christian Zionism is to diminish or even to totally eliminate Jesus and what He already did for us through His death and resurrection. Christian Zionism is anti Jesus, it is antichrist which pretends to be part of the body of Christ but has never been - exactly what's written in 1 John 2. Christian Zionism is the actual replacement theology - to replace Jesus with the golden calf the modern day state of Israel and to replace grace with the laws. It's either Jesus is a liar or we must repent. Pray that the Holy Spirit impart on us the courage and humility to seek and accept the absolute truth. God bless the innocents both Jews and Gentiles in Palestine, Israel, and worldwide.
Sometimes I wonder if people even read the New Testament. The covenant of Abraham is to him and his seed, which is Christ. Abraham's decendants are not after the flesh but after faith.
One hour is an absurdly short amount of time for this huge topic.
Dr. Brown...I am a Calvinist and a cessationist...and I absolutely LOVE your channel and your ministry. I try to watch all your videos. You inspire me always to be a better man and a stronger believer. Thank you for your passion and knowledge that are always sprinkled in grace - your passion and knowledge beautifully compliment one another.
Check out Dan Mohler yo
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe
me?
He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye
are not of God.
Then answered the Jews…”
John 8:42 - 8:48
“I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know
the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the
synagogue of Satan.”
Revelation 2:9
7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins.
1King9:7
stop being a secessionist!
There is only one people of God. The Law has been nailed to the cross.
please quote scripture for your assertion
@@congregationbethsimchaoflu5002 Galatians 3.
And only 1 covenant and name under which you can be saved. There is no salvation outside of Jesus. There is neither Jew nor Gentile..only 1 body..the body of Christ.
The adde Mosaic Covenant was nailed to the cross. Not God’s triune Moral Law.
What was nailed to the cross? “And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision (Gentiles) of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross” (Colossians 2:13-14). Not THE LAW, but the curse of the Law, which was death, separation from God. We Gentiles now have access to YHWH through Jesus. Are you calling Messiah a liar? Matthew 5:17-19. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Read Acts 24, Paul states as his defense before the Roman governor that HE follows the Law and therefore does NOT teach against it. What Paul taught was Gentiles do not have to become Jews (convert) to receive the forgiveness of sin.
The Israel of today is not the Israel of God.
This debate is heavy and has been going on between Believers for some time. I can’t get
past this truth though- there is only ONE olive tree. Gentiles have been grafted in and will remain in, even though Dispensationalists want to rip us out at some point in the future.
The wonderful news of the New Covenant is that ANY Jew can be grafted back in to the Olive tree, how? By faith in Christ, by taking on a NEW identity of being IN Christ which is superior to one’s genealogy.
@Kathy Qualls
I agree with you,; however, i'd like to add that Dr.Brown is not a dispensationalist. In the Tanakh, it is clear that the Jewish people will remain in the land of Israel at the time before the day of the Lord (Zechariah 14:4-6, Joel 3:2, Isaiah 13:4, etc.) And that they will be saved in the time of the end ( Matthew 23:39, Luke 13:35, Acts 3:19,20)
This is a GREAT LECTURE TEACHING. Isaiah 56 and Isaiah 58 are great Chapters that help explain what Replacement Theology is not. Shalom - Blessed Love.
When a person has no cultural connection to Israel they feel discriminated, thus try to make a connection to the promises to the Jews for the Gentiles through Messiah. The truth is that God has a special place in his heart for the Jews because of his relationship with the original remanent of Adam, to Noah, to Moses, Abraham, all the way down to Messiah.
The truth is that those that are in Christ outside of the Messianic Jewish culture are lucky and therefore blessed to take part in such benefits of the Jews in Messiah because while the orthodox Jews where a stiff neck people the gentiles where adopted into the faith through Messiah, absolutely amazing! Thank you heavenly Father you are so worthy of all praise, honor, and glory!
Oh my goodness!!! This was so meaty for the hunger we mature Christians desire...I definitely agree with brother Michael Brown !!! ....all Israel will be saved!!!
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe
me?
He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye
are not of God.
Then answered the Jews…”
John 8:42 - 8:48
“I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know
the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the
synagogue of Satan.”
Revelation 2:9
7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins.
1King9:7
Only a remnant of Israel will be saved. Romans 9:27
I bet myself a Pizza lunch that Dr Brown's opening remark would be about antisemitism and I'd like to thank him for being predictable. We dont re-write doctrine so as not to offend Jews because the of Nazis - we fought and defeated the Nazis for the sake of TRUTH. At the end of the day I see an AMERICAN telling a native born Palestinian that he has no right to live in the land he was born in.
Well said. They should've named the debate "land promises" .... a discussion on politics, not the New Covenant
Dr. Brown is functioning in biblical facts, not assumptions and feelings. Yea, he just wiped the floor.
We are spiritual Israel meaning grafted into Him who is both the root and off shoot of Israel.
No we are spiritual priests.
Replacement theology is a superiority theology.
You have salvation that should be enough but you want more?
@@ayls9443replacement theology, replacing one people's of God with two
Unless you become born again you cannot enter the kingdom of God!
Dr Munther Isaac is wrong. The offspring mentioned in Genesis 3 is Jesus, not Abraham.
I think Dr. Browns point about God scattering and God regathering seals it:
Hear the word of the Lord , O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off, And say, "He who scattered Israel will gather him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock."
Jeremiah 31:10
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe
me?
He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye
are not of God.
Then answered the Jews…”
John 8:42 - 8:48
“I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know
the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the
synagogue of Satan.”
Revelation 2:9
7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins.
1King9:7
20:36 The man who is apparently representing the replacement theology side is definitely not the traditional replacement theology. I as a Messianic/Hebrew Rooter agree 100% with all that he said. Gentiles are grafted in, they are truly grafted in meaning they are not Gentiles anymore, they are taken as Israelites, true native-born Israelites, they are truly part of Israel and can say Avraham Avinu (Abraham our father) and David Avinu (David our father) with the rest of the Jewish people.
xUncleA123x yes!! I 100% agree
@Michael H. Good job taking that scripture out of context.
Messiah says that in relation to the specific rabbinic title of Abba that was in most cases undeserved (Abba Shaul, Abba Yose ben Yochanan, Abba Chanan, Abba Chelphetha, Abba Gorion, etc.)
Messiah was not talking about spiritual fathers or physical fathers. We know that because Paul called Timothy his son, therefore making Paul Timothy's spiritual father. And just look at scripture and see how many times people reference their physical fathers as "father".
My comment is saying we actually join the family of Israel. Therefore Abraham is our father. That is specifically what God promised Abraham too. Remember "father of many nations" from Genesis.
You seem to imply that the true native-born Israelites aren't grafted in themselves. Gentiles don't become Jews they enter into the church(which is Christ). Gal 3:27-28 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.… This is the mystery of the church. It seems like you are making being an Israelite more important than being in Christ.
I don't agree we are Israeli.
We are neither jew or gentiles.
I reject replacement theology.
Do not call yourself a jew (which means Israeli)
My dear Dr brown you are my heroe and i am your number one supporter when you debate rabbies defending our faith....BUT THERE IS ONLY ONE PEOPLE OF GOD NOT 2 ,ONE OLIVE TREE NOT TWO
Reverend Dr. Munther Isaac is PHENOMENAL! He is indeed a powerful biblical historian and passionate presenter of biblical truth. He is phenomenal.
Fascinating discussion between two believers in Messiah Yeshua. They both bring good points to the table and in mho the truth is sandwiched right in between.
At some point during the discussion, Mr. Brown observes how throughout history it has been very difficult being identified as a Jew due to the centuries of persecution in the pogroms and culminating in the holocaust. .
In the film, Fiddler on the Roof, Tevya puts it this way, 'I know, I know. We are Your chosen people. But, once in a while, can't You (talking to God) choose someone else?'
My stance in all of this is, I have been grafted into The Olive Tree of Israel by faith. I do not adhere to dispensationalism or replacement theology. Nor do I believe that once we enter into Covenant with Abba we remain, gentiles (of the nation's) Once we are grafted we become full fledged heirs of the promises with similar privileges & responsabilities.
When Messiah returns He will clarify all things then we'll understand fully. For now we discuss, debate, wrap ourselves aeound the axle and hopefully come to some concensus....maybe!
Praised be He! 😊
Lina Keith very reasoned response. On this earth we see through a glass dimly. I believe this is why Jesus kept reminding his followers to love one another as it’s human nature to form camps then factions based on who has the Truth. The enemy loves this
Patricia, I find in you a kindred spirit. Let's not give the adversary an inch!
May YeHoVaH richly bless you! 😊 😁 🙏
💐
Lina Keith What good point did Munther make?
babystinky, Munther makes the excellent point that we are one seed through Abraham. (Abraham was not Jewish as Jakob had not even been born yet). He offers the example of Ruth, David's grandmother who embraced belief in the El of Israel as did Rehab the prostitute. (she crossed over through faith & obedience).
He makes the point that the multitude who left Egypt were of mixed background. There was the native born (Hebrew) as well as the foreigner coming together to worship the God of Israel.
babystinky, Munther also alluded to taking offense with those who would say that he is of Ishmael. Being of Middle Eastern background myself, I take issue with that notion. I have embraced belief in The God of Israel. I seek to be identified by His instructions and way of life. Yeshua is My Reedener.
The Book of Hebrews was about the Better in all things that came with Jesus as the new believers were being declared illegal and lost their possessions. One of the Better things listed was the Better Possession, juxtaposed against the conditional land covenant with Moses as that mediator. All things Better replaced all the old things that faded from its former glory.
Good job Dr. Brown!!! Truth has a tone; that’s why they say something “rings” true and your argument rings true.
HE'S WRONG
I love dr. Brown's debate's & I've learned so much watching this Channel!! This one was fun to watch I enjoyed seeing that everything ended kind of giggly. Wondering is there going to be any more to this debate it mentioned at the beginning of it that there was another hour, so perhaps another video?
Tru G, I don't think they posted the second hour. I was present at this debate, but only caught the end of the second hour, and I was able to ask a question, which Dr Brown totally misunderstood. I would love to be able to hear this portion again.
I want MORE ! Great presentation ! 😀
According to Ephesians 2 there’s no common wealth of Israel or covenants of promise that is given to Israel but not to Gentiles.
Huh??
@@veritas2145 “Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:11-22 ESV
Brown rejects that in Christ is all God's covenant promises realized and fulfilled. You cannot reject the Son and claim physical land promises, or else God wouldn't have brought judgement in AD 70. I think God's mercy is being confused with God's will. God is merciful to unbelieving nations and individuals all over the world. It is by God's mercy that Israel has been kept, not because of their ethnicity or blood line. All of those in Christ are God's people, not those who reject Him. I think there's an undercurrent in this discussion. Munther has a better grasp of the Gospel of Christ on the issue of all people being one in Him, but both of these brothers are really having a discussion over the land.
Diana Williams sure you can-if that’s what the Scripture teaches. The Bible is full of teaching that is challenging for us to comprehend.
Diana Williams that is what it usually devolves into “the land the land” like they need a midget saying it so at least it’s funny - if the land was so important and holy - why is tel Aviv known as the gay capital of the world - common now - you mean dropping phosphorous bombs on your neighbours and shooting children is condoned by God ? You people must have some strange god - or as Jesus said to his disciples when they wanted to call down fire on their enemies like Elijah did “ you know not what spirit you are of” I would say they are many that are professing to be followers that do not know what spirit they are of.
Diana Williams not all professing Christians are believers, so do we throw the baby out with the bath water? God forbid. It’s pathetic how replacement advocates think that the world would be a paradise if only Israel was pushed into the sea.
B James we are not referring to any exotic way into heaven. That would be heresy. God has established an eternal land covenant with the descendants of Abraham.
It’s in the Lord’s prayer, and when He sets up His Kingdom on earth as in heaven, peace will finally be realized, and the “times of the Gentiles” will be fulfilled.
No other religious book has fulfilled prophecy, but ours. It establishes its divine origins and makes it trustworthy.
Furthermore, we are urged always to be ready, because Christ came the first time, and it’s “high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”
(Ro 13:11)
@@mrdandrea
I think I will convert to Judaism. That way I can reject Christ and still be saved.
How about the Jew who died yesterday who doesn't believe Jesus came in the flesh? As far as I know 2nd John says that person is an Antichrist. Do anti-christs go to heaven? I guess so.
Romans 9:6-7
King James Version
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
, it’s only the saved remnant of Israel who are true Israel..
Dr. Brown: 1 Billion Chinese, 1 Billion Indians in the world today, Israel is older and only 14 Million of them in the world today. A great point to prove God's hand has continued to be upon Israel and His promises remain for them. If God does not fullfill His promises to Israel then we as Gentiles cannot trust He will keep His promises to us.
Amen
Powerful Dr. Brown . Kudos
Irish people have a Ireland, Italians Italy, Poles Poland, Nigerians Nigeria but God forbid Jewish people have Israel! No other people have been promised a land by God in the Bible. So it’s always puzzled me that so many people in the bride of Christ voice opposition to what God has spoken so clearly. I chalk it up to good ole jealousy
Gear Barrel every other country in the world shares with other people the benefits of the land - home ownership - citizenship etc. When they don’t or attempt to subvert the rights of others - they are condemned for it - there is a concerted effort to ensure exclusivity for only one country without condemnation for their bad treatment of a group within (the Palestinians)
Alternate Man sure buddy-sure. That’s exactly how it works in North Korea in Saudi Arabia in Venezuela even in America. The only country in the world that Miss treats people is Israel. That’s an accurate portrayal of nothing
Gear Barrel - only thing that is preventing a full blown genocide is the eyes 👀 of the world 🌎. Isn’t it strange how when those being opposed are finally released from their oppression - they become the oppressors. Israel and South Africa are two prime examples. You would think they would have learned a valuable lesson from their oppression - but in reality the lesson was how to do “oppression” better than they did it to me. Sad 😞
Alternate Man yeah the perfect way to show people you aren’t the “oppressor is to allow avowed enemies entry into various Neighborhoods to kill innocent children. Sure that will prove Israel isn’t the oppressor. MAY God bless Israel for adding check points and closing down open travel to Palestinians who OPENLY-openly declare they want to kill every Jew worldwide. If the Israeli Jewish leadership publicly declared they want to kill
every non-Jewish Israeli Palestinian THE WORLDWIDE OUTCRY WOULD BE DEAFENING . Sir will you decry Hamas and they calls to murderer Jews?!?!?!
Gear Barrel you have created your enemies and continue to do so - hey why not go after Iran next - then you can claim they were a danger ? Oh already doing that I see . Smart - one day it will catch up to you.
What Munther Isaac is looking at is the Kingdom Age as far as the land which will be the entire world belongs to believers both Jew and Gentile. In the here and now there are physical promises made to Israel THE NATION giving them THE LAND. Paul names THREE entities, Israel, Gentiles and THE CHURCH.
"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his SEED. Scripture does not say “and to SEEDS,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ." - Galatians 3:16
the hebrew word for seed, "zerah", has no plural form. in fact, "zerah"/seed is used over and over again to refer to SEEDS
@@LawOfNonContradiction I simply quoted scripture (verbatim). Are you saying Paul was mistaken?
@@dirtremovesblindness yes
@@LawOfNonContradiction Well, thank you for your consistency.
Seems like both have valid but conflicting bottom-line points that are not refuted by the other side, Thus the conclusion seems to have to be that the Scriptures are not consistent on this subject!
On the other hand, Brown''s argument rested heavily on God's land promise to Israel. That argument seems easy to rebut:
So the LORD gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there...Not one of all the LORD's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled. Joshua 21:43, 45
PROMISE FULFILLED! QED!
But there's more.
And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt... 1 Kings 4:21
But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. Deuteronomy 30:17-18
Isaacs arguments, I thought, were more diverse and robust. Thus for me the scales tip decidedly his way even if Brown's land argument held some water.
(Note: I do really like and respect Dr. Brown, and I read his books and watch his videos regularly. I just think he's got a blind spot on the whole question of the 'land of Israel.')
This was fun. I had never heard Dr Munther's view articulated and didn't realize that it's closer to the view I held, but I've been swayed
Dr Munter may have a genuiness to certain elements of antisemitism that takes place in the land. But what baffles me is his deafening silence by the Palestinians and their attrocities.
Vinod Kurian, he must walk a fine line! Does Mather live in the Land?
The Palestinian atrocities ? Your joking right ? Who have the sniper rifles and white phosphorous bombs - and who have the sticks and stones.
Vinod, who is living under occupation? It's like wondering what the rape victim did to deserve to be raped. If you listen to other talks by Munther, you will understand that he is against violence on both sides. Remove the occupation (after all the West Bank still belongs to Jordan) and there will be no need for resistance. But reality is that the law doesn't consider Palestinians as equal to Israelis.
You don't come with a bible in one hand and a weapon in another knock on the door telling Palestinians "God gave me your land, home and resources and expect to be loved" The terrible, unfortunate things that are happening over there are not for nothing, Christian Zionist are lending their hand to an extreme injustice, I say extreme because Christian Zionist believe this injustice is sanctioned by God. Modern Israeli Jews will say god gave us this land, but if you ask them if they believe in the bible most probable they would say no, most of them are atheist. which adds insult to the injury.
@19:00 He misses what Paul said about the jews being blind for the time of the gentiles and as far as the gospel is concerned they are an enemy, and yet to extend grace and mercy towards them, not hate them. And as explained elsewhere and implied right there is this same place this implies that its not permanent, but only thru the time of the gentiles and then their (jews) sight is returned.
The mystery is the two are joined, yet have their own individual paths set before them until all on this earth is finished and ultimately all united in the Kingdom before Christ hands it over to the Father. So still all one in Christ. Same family. But the flesh still has a covenant. Spiritually it’s one and the same and all done thru Christ.
Jesus is the same yesterday , today and FOREVER !!!!
I'm biased in favour of Dr Brown's position. But really, I think it's fair to way he won this debate quite easily. The biblical arguments to refute replacement theology are very sound
@ 55:36 the expression of a man whose intellectual agreement with the scriptures as Dr. Brown has presented confronts his will which says "It can't be..."
At 42 mins Dr. Isaac says he finds no place in the Bible where it makes a distinction between “spiritual Israel and physical Israel”’. Good sir that is exactly what Paul meant when he says “not Israel is Israel” he is making this very distinction among physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham.
Gear Barrel What Paul is saying is something like this...noT all Catholics are Catholics, just because you were born this way doesn't mean you STAY THIS WAY. He is talking about ETHNIC ISRAEL. Not All Ethnic Israel are the REMNANT who are part Of Ethnic Israel, since many of Israel rejected messiah. He is not talking about Gentiles becoming Israel
babystinky no he is saying not all Jewish people are in Christ. “True” Israel in Paul’s mind are those who are born again
Gear Barrel Paul says Israel has experienced a hardening. Are you saying the Church is hard?
babystinky no he is saying those who claim to be Israel - Jews who do not believe - have hardened themselves - as in the Talmudic concept of Jesus / Mary / God and the chosen people of God. In case you didn’t notice the Old Testament promises (unlike the New Testament) are conditional hence the word “if” is used - if I sign a contract with you stating I owe you money - then that’s unconditional - if I say I owe you money if you produce and provide a service for me then you must fulfill your end in order to claim the promise of payment - it’s no different here - if you will repent and make me your God and have no other gods before me I will heal your land etc.etc. So many chose to miss or skip over that “tiny” little detail - especially those who claim the promises without fulfilling the bargain. Of course now since God has cancelled the agreement and given a certificate of divorcement there is a new covenant they are still eligible to be included under - the same one as the rest of mankind - that is accepting Jesus as lord and saviour which requires humility - of course that is an issue where pride is concerned so until Zech happens I’m afraid they are in for a rocky ride: The description of God's ultimate plan for Israel: "In all the land ... two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left ... I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." [Zech 13:8-9]
Aternate Man, Yes Israel is hardened. That means Israel *isn't the Church* I agree. However, Ezekiel 36, proves that Israel doesn't meet the conditional *IF* they obey, as God decides to have Mercy on account of His Holy Name
Ezekiel 36
19 I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. 20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.
22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
Exceptional presentation by Dr. Michael Brown.
A slice of land has nothing to do with salvation in Christ and bearing the fruits of Christs kingdom.
Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? [43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Thank you Dr Munther Isaac. What a straight forward simple and biblical understanding. This is always what I though but was led away by the predominant eschatology prevailing in America. Now with September 20th 2020 just around the corner, those that think the generation that saw Israel became a nation in 1948 would see the fulfillment of the verse where Jesus stated the Luke 21 fig tree parable. So when September 20th 2020 comes and goes and we are not raptured then the whole dispensation theology falls apart.
Welp, it didn’t happen. So let’s dispense with dispensationalism shall we?
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe
me?
He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye
are not of God.
Then answered the Jews…”
John 8:42 - 8:48
“I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know
the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the
synagogue of Satan.”
Revelation 2:9
7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins.
1King9:7
@41:00 Israel had to wait around 2,000 years of Christ to arrive and then reject Him.
I think they can wait 2,000 years to accept Him.
I don’t see how people think Dr. Brown on this debate. He clearly was getting agitated and questioning more aggressively and mischaracterized his opponents views. He had at least three strawmen I counted. And his conclusion was basically Israel gets certain promises and gentile believers get certain promises, distinguished by race. That seems so contrary to Jesus’ life and teaching. He even sarcastically said at the end “you want the promises for Israel? Circumcise yourself!” Paul said multiple times in his writings that circumcision counts for nothing in Christ.
You are not stopping Michael Brown from interrupting.
Look i put my all my hope of heaven in Jesus. If I'm wrong then all I did was live a better life for the teachings of Jesus do nothing but make you a more patient loving forgiving person. If Jesus is not the savior, by believing in him I have nothing to lose. If he is I have everything to gain By putting all my faith in him. By Believing in Jesus you can't lose no matter what! He is the messiah but I think I make a valid point.
Only if I get circumcised am I fully heir with Abraham? What kind of nonsense is this. I love Dr Brown, but his insistence on being "right" here is really not cutting it.
True circumcision is performed by the Spirit and is of the heart (Romans 2:29).
Excellent display of good solid knowledge. Thx Dr. Brown.
ChiliMcFly1 1 Timothy 1:4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.
Munter is wrong.
God promised the land to the Jews (the physical descendants of Jacob), and not the Palestinians.
Funny how the Palestinian priest is scared that Israel could someday triple in size. That’s would still make it smaller than most nations and tiny compared to Arab lands. I guess he would be happiest if Israel was treading water out in the Mediterranean.
Dr Isaac's point at the end was decisive: If the old covenant is still in place, if ethnic Jews are still set apart, then I as a gentile can get circumcised and keep the law, then I become part of the commonwealth of Israel (like Ruth) and thus inherit the O.T. promises (land, etc). The point of Galatians is to show the folly of doing that.
Yes it is foolish for the Galatians because Paul's main point in that letter was about justification before God. He says that following the law does not save anyone that's why it's foolish for them to try to put themselves under the law especially because they were not Jewish. Paul never forbade his fellow Jews to follow the law, in fact he made it a point to follow the customs when he went back to Jerusalem to show the Jews that he's not denying Jewish laws as a Jew. Paul understands that God is not done with the Jews which he clearly explained in Romans 11.
Thanks for the thoughtful response Jekris. Couple things:
I would argue Paul did rebuke his fellow Jews in Galatians 2 for following the law.
Peter was eating with uncircumcised gentiles (forbidden by Judaism), then separates from them when Judaizers come. Paul rebukes him, basically saying in v.14 "You've been living like a free gentile, Peter, no longer adhering to the Jewish divisions, but now you're separating yourself ('keeping the law'). Shame on you for going back under the Jewish law and expecting these gentiles to get circumcised in order to table fellowship with you!"
Paul's point is that there is one People of God, not two, and that Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ. Justification is not just about being declared righteous before God, it's also entrance into the one people of God. Paul says that to rebuild and maintain the division is sin (v.18 - building again that which has been torn down).
To your point about Paul keeping Jewish customs, I would say he kept them (and had Timothy snipped Acts 16:3) not because he was a Jew, but to be a "Jew to reach the Jews" (1 Cor 9:20). In other words, wear a kippah when you go to the wailing wall. Have your wife wear a skirt and head covering to reach the Amish. No need to be offensive.
Remember, O.T. Israel was never an exclusively ethnic Jewish entity. A mixed multitude went up out of Egypt (Ex 12:38). Also Ruth and Rahab. In fact, any gentile could get circumcised, keep the law, and join Israel (Ex 12:49). And that was my original point. If the O.T. is still intact, I as a gentile could put myself under the law and thus be entitled to a piece of the land, promises, etc.
As far as Romans 11, that's a whole other ball of wax, if you wanna get into it! But whatever it means, I believe Christian Zionism is anathema. Jesus did not support the Jewish zealots of his day, and neither should we! I think I'll make that it's own comment...
@@rosco1733 eating with uncircumcised gentiles was forbidden cause they weren't allowed to mix with the unclean. But the point was that belief in christ makes one clean (justified). That is what Peter's dream of unclean food was all about. Furthermore when pual rebukes him he makes it a point to day he is acting like a "Gentile sinner." Which for Peter would have been a huge smack in the face. Paul tells him how are you going to get them to act like Jews when your acting like a gentile. He continues to say that as Jews we know better than the rest that the law cant justify us only faith in Christ brings about that Grace. But this was never to speak agianst the law. He argues that the law is good and needed and the thing that tells us when we sin.
Galatians is Paul arguing agianst the false Gospel that we must become justified by the law first then we get Jesus. That is what he is arguing agianst. He doesnt argue agianst observing the law. That would be a sin in and if itself according to God's own words. Paul would never do that
Plus the Church of the Galatians was primarily composed of Gentiles that were pagans not Jews. Of course there were Jews that were there but the majority of those people won't were not Jewish hence the whole idea about getting circumcised was an issue. Heck I believe it was in Acts 14 and 15 were Paul is preaching to these people and pretty much says these were Pagan Gentiles they even try to worship Him.
@@nathanieldiaz2845 I think I agree with you, at least the first part. Except when Paul says Peter has been living like a Gentile, I don't think he is saying that Peter has been living like a Gentile "sinner."
I think he is basically saying "Peter, you have been living like a Gentile in the sense that you haven't been observing clean/unclean distinctions. You've been eating with Gentiles. But now, when the peeps from James come, suddenly you're acting like a Jew again, observing divisions." Check out the NLT translation of Gal 2:14. I think they nailed it: “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?"
Check out the NLT's translation of v.17-19: "17 But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! 18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down. 19 For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law-I stopped trying to meet all its requirements-so that I might live for God."
I believe Paul is actually calling the Jews to abandon those aspects of the law that kept them separated (circumcision, food laws, not mixing diverse fabrics, observing purity laws, "unclean til evening", etc) but obviously not abandon the moral aspect of God's law, to love God and love others. If they wanted to keep doing these things as a matter of culture, fine I guess, but don't make these things the "ticket of admission" into the people of God, as the Circumcision Party was.
@@rosco1733
Hey there this is a huge reply so please bare with me!! Read when you have time!! 😅 I have gone back and re-edit this a couple times before posting to fix any errors however I'm not perfect so hopefully I fixed all errors that are present in it feel free to ask me any questions about anything I wrote if it's not clear.
I like NLT alot, however when doing in-depth studies I don't rely on that version too much. it usually is the first version I will read when I'm going to read anything from the Bible and then I go back and read it in a few different other versions that are more word for word in there translation as NLT is not a word for word translation majority of the time.Nor do they claim to be. They are a so called thought for thought translation. Or a "dynamic" translation. I would suggest ESV, TLV, HCSB, NKJV, or the NASB for deep diving. EXTREMELY IMPORTANT when dealing with cult off shots of the Gospel such as Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons, but anyway back to the topic at hand
Then the rest of the Jews joined his hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were deviating from the truth of the gospel, I told Cephas in front of everyone, “If you, who are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel Gentiles to live like Jews? ” We who are Jews by birth and not “Gentile sinners” know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified. But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not!
Galatians 2:13-17 HCSB
Just so you know in verse 15 even the NLT says gentile sinners. That said this is a snippet that focuses on the verses in question but obviously I encourage you to reread the whole book with what I bring up in mind. I promise to do the same for anything you bring up as well.
So like I said in the prior post Paul accuses him of being like a gentile sinner. NLT gets the verse 14 very incorrect due to their style of para-phrasing, unfortunate but true. If you look at a word for word translation you will never get that interpretation. This is why for in depth study always go for a version that has a direct word for word as much as possible.
So you mentioned these verses as well.
But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild the system I tore down, I show myself to be a lawbreaker. For through the law I have died to the law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.
Galatians 2:17-21 HCSB
There is that part where he says gentile sinners. There is a reason for this dichotomy. Remember Paul calls gentiles who believe in Christ and don't use the law for righteousness a true Jew in Roman's. So he accuses Peter of not being like a Jew.
For being a Jew by birth he should know better. The whole reason behind a separation between Jews and Gentile in the first place was to keep Jews from adopting incorrect or Idol worshipping like culture from the Gentiles. But by accepting Jesus these Gentiles, who Peter separated from, were grafted in and no longer to be treated as before. But by separating from them he confirmed (intentional or not) that they were indeed still not part of the fellowship. In this case due specifically to circumcision. This was worng and not the true Gospel.
As we know no amount of sin separates us from christ if we genuinely turn to him. So if while we seek to be justified by Christ and we still mess up or are not perfect by the standards of the law THIS IS OK because the Law doesnt justify us anyway. Obviously this doesn't mean we keep on sinning. For even Paul says that in Roman's and elsewhere. Plus Jesus always said now go and sin no more. But I ask what is sin? It's anything agianst the law of God. So is Jesus a promoter of doing that (sinning) No!!
I hope you are tracking with me so far.
Now it's not the letter of the law we are to keep but the spirit or principle behind it. Which means on some cases certain laws about the clothing for example arent meant to be kept literally in a modern setting. (I hope you understood what those laws were actually about) However in other cases such as keeping the feast that God literally said are his days and will be everlasting... well the principle behind that is God said to love the Lord your God and follow his commands. He has days he wants to celebrate with us that represent his story with us, not just Israel!! Its quite beautiful actually.
Anyway the point of galatians isn't that the law is abolished or that we are no longer to try to follow it. God actually said cursed is anyone who says such a thing. It's that we are never justified by the law.
Side note:This is also why many modern day Jews dont accept Jesus because they are told he does away with the Torah/law. Within the Torah God said anyone who claims this is a false Prophet. The problem is that Jesus doesnt do away with the law so the modern Jew rejects a strawman Jesus. Unfortunately many Christian's argue for that same Jesus that the Jews reject. This is depressingly sad when you truly think about it.
Not sure if your married, if you are this should make sense. There are no doubt things that your spouse considers important to them and there might be things that they kind of expected you to do whether it's in the house or with the kids, if you have any, or whatever the case may be. Maybe certain days are importance of them such as anniversaries or maybe the first day you meant or started dating or maybe the first day that you did something big together who knows I think you get my point. You Don't do those things in order to have their love, you do those things because you already have their love.
So we don't follow the law or attempt to follow the law so as to have God's love or to be justified by God no we attempt to follow the law because we are already justified by our faith in Christ and out of our love for God we wish to follow him. How does one follow God well he has a whole list of stuff that he said do this keep my commands it shows you love me so do them it's that simple we make it very hard and we try to make it this big thing when it's not, it's just really simple follow the law because you love God not because you're trying to earn his love, but because he loves you so why not.
Just remember that the old system that was torn down was the system of how we connect to God. We connected to God in the old system by attempting to fulfill the law. If you messed up there were sacrifices that had to be made and unfortunately you had to do a sacrifice for every time or every year because you were constantly messing up and you had to keep separated from anybody and everyone who wasn't attempting to follow the law because they were Gentile sinners. They weren't Righteous. Overtime thou the Jews forgot that they arent righteous either. This is the problem that Jesus confronted. They thought their righteousness came through the law. It was ingrained in them to think that due to man's traditions. Yet even in the OT it was made clear that righteousness couldn't be obtained by man. Not even the great "Heros" of the OT were perfect. But man Has a way of messing things up. Look at the catholic church. They made the same exact mistake (maybe even worse) than this circumcision party that Paul was confronting made. Just like the Jews of old they made man made rules by which one can access God.
Sorry hopefully my rant helps lol
One last thing I just want to say there's a lot of the law that has to do keeping away from idol worship and Pagan practices. To follow the specifics of Those portions of the law wouldn't be too fruitful today cuz the reality is today's Pagan practices and today's idol worship isn't really the same or done the same way as it was back then. So we can't really follow the letter of the law in some of those areas and think that we're fulfilling the principal for which the law stood when it comes to Pagan worship and idol worship and stuff within a modern setting. So depending on where you live in the culture of the area you live there might be certain things that you would have to keep away from as to not accidentally intermixed with your cultures version of idol worship. But see that would be taking the principle of the law and applying it to your situation because the letter of the law wouldn't help you too much in your situation when it comes to those things. I think that is a aspect of the law that many of us forget. And makes it that much easier to dismiss the law. Which is unfortunate.
The Jews refuse to accept Christ's words in John 18:36 'Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world."' They pushed away the new covenant, which was given to the Jews first by God, killed his Christ and then say: "Now keep your promise to us!" You can even hear their arrogance in the voice of dr. Brown in this debate.
I think dr. Isaac made very good points here, especially at around 16:52-18:23 "The gentiles didn't replace the Jews, they joined Israel. The church, consisting of Jews and gentiles, is the natural continuation of the story of Israel. Jews are not replaced nor rejected. God has not uprooted the olive tree of Israel, but has crafted into the tree new branches. There is one people of God, not two peoples of God. There is one flock (not two), one shepherd." (John 10:16)
At 55:22 dr. Isaac completely destroys dr. Brown's arguments by showing how dr. Brown makes the bible not completely applicable for all Christians, asking him can I call Abraham my father and can I take the promises that God made to Abraham? If not, take the bible and highlight which parts are applicable for me and which parts are only for the Jews. Then dr. Brown makes the redicilous argument: "If you want in... circumcise your sons!" I'm a Christian, not a Jew, but I'm circumcised... so does the land also belong to me?
Munther Issac only reads the NT as a replacement proposition, not a continuation of the first covenant of the OT.
I could fall asleep listening to Dr Munther Isaac zzzzz
Maybe you don;' like his accent but, you've just listened, it indeed you listened to the substance and reality of the promise made to Abraham was to bring universal salvation to the people of the world.
So we should as Christians feel guilt, ignore the truth and the substance of our hope, because of all the pain and suffering it has brought Jewish people through out millennia according to Dr. Micheal Brown, whose side is he on?
Jesus is Israel - if you are in Him then you are in Israel - if you are not in Christ, then you are not in Israel. When Jews are in Christ they are the natural branches of the vine, when they reject him they are cut off and thrown into the fire. We are the grafted in branches - but it remains: you must be in the vine and Jesus is the vine. Why else would Jesus preach to JEWS that they MUST be born again and believe. Show me a Jew whose righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees - you wont find one. "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:20
It's so sad that we didn't get to listen to the audience's questions, was this recorded? I would love to listen to their questions and hear the responses.
They finally get to a place of real discussion and the moderator cuts in!!??? Why did he ruin such a great discussion???!!!
What was all the clapping for at 40:00? "WHAT THE CHRISTIAN DID TO THE JEWS?" Hitler reference? He was hardly a christian Dr. Brown... :/
Jesus did not support the Jewish zealots of his day, and neither should we!
"Political Zionism and Christian Zionism are anathema to Christian faith." -John Stott
I've been in the protestant church since 1988. Till this day I still hear people say the same thing. As a Jewish Anus I calmly held my peace. But on day I asked a pastor this question. If GOD replaced the church 4 Israel then GOD brakes his own Laws. GOD would be divorcing Israel and abandoning us. Yet, God asks Israel, ( Isaiah 50:1) where is the certificate of divorce? And Ekekiel 16;32-34 He calls Israel an adulterous wife. Israel is the WIFE of The FATHER, the church is going to be tge bride of Jesus! Jesus signed the ketubah when they took the last supper (sedder meal). And we will drink the wine amd bread in the wedding of the lamb. Another thing, Israel's reward in the land of Israel, but the church gets the new Jerusalem. We don't all get the same rewards. Plainly under stand this ,please. Israel is held with more responsibly than gentiles. If a gentile wants the same rewards as a Jew, they must be circumcised and for fill ALL (613) THE LAWS! as Paul says, even in this God shows a difference. In the churches that I have been member of ,they all try to make me follow the gentile ways. But I follow what The Scriptures say! And I do it how it says and NOT my way. Israelites are not forgotten by God!! Gentiles are trying to replace us rather than be 1 in Y'Shua. Amein, Shalom
Elichai Peretz actually it’s you who are divorcing God by not believing in Jesus. The olive tree which is still Israel is still there but individual Jews are broken off due to unbelief.
True.
They are trying to replace themselves. They only want the blessing but not the curses.
It's really sad to see the Christians replace themselves.
@@matthewsouthwell3500 all you wrote was wrong. Well done.
God is faithful even when Israel isn't always has been always will be.
Replacement theology is wrong. The church doesn't replace Israel, we are separate, do not call yourself a jew when you're not.
This has been happening since the beginning and Paul teaches against it.
@@matthewsouthwell3500 tltr
I love the end.... Dr. Brown " if you want in, circumcise your children on the 8th day."
Basically get on board with the law sir lol.
Epic finish
We are not repent for the out mistakes. We are repent for not believing Christ Jesus as our Savior and Lord !!
I admire rv Munther Isaac
There is no such thing as re- placement theology, the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation is all about Jesus. This book is not about Israel, it is about God's love for all mankind, that he came and died for all mankind to redeem them from there sins, the high way to hell. He came an died for Jews and Gentiles alike, to save both from there sins. Israel cannot save you, only JESUS CAN! He choose one nation to accomplish this task, not because they were better than the other nations around them, but because of His grace and mercy for all mankind. Through Israel, the messiah would come to save all mankind. Through Abraham seed, all of the nations of the world would be blessed. That blessings was Jesus who died upon that cross at calvary for Jews and Gentiles alike to redeem them from there sins. There rebellion against the Lord Thy God: JESUS! " For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" ( John 3: 16). Israel cannot save you, only JESUS CAN, it is all about JESUS: THE ALPHA AND OMEGA!
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28-29 KJV
How did this scripture get left out?
Dr. Brown, in the Apostle Paul's allegory, the slave woman, Hagar, corresponds to the earthly Jerusalem, who with her children are enslaved (Gal.4:25) and will "not inherit" with the son of the free woman (v.30). I urge everyone to listen to NT Wright's presentation of Israel in Pauline Theology where he covers 10 distinguishing marks of Israel.
By admitting there is a remnant, Dr Brown admits that God can change the definition of who is a (true) Israelite
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe
me?
He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye
are not of God.
Then answered the Jews…”
John 8:42 - 8:48
“I know thy works, and tribulation and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know
the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the
synagogue of Satan.”
Revelation 2:9
7I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the house I have consecrated for my name. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, 8c and this house shall become a heap of ruins.
1King9:7
What a rude priest... I think that mostly he just want to exalt himself (and his book) being a Palestinian and how angry he is that the promised land belongs to Israel.
What about Yeshua saying “I haven’t come for anyone else but for the lost sheep of Israel”?? We all need to be grafted into the nation of Israel (just like a slaves in Egypt when Hebrews left the pharaoh) to become one of them, to believe in God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We can all believe but sooner or later we have to follow the same commandments/instructions that YHVH gave to us. This priest is missing the whole point...
This.
Thanks!!!! Let's see the rest... Please.
The church is never called the new Jacob
Calvin Peterson exactly because the church has always been Israel. The gentiles were “grafted” in. The unbelieving jews were cut off from Israel. It’s not that complicated to understand. All you have to realize is that Israel was always the church, congregation of the Lord.
@@livepoetic390 Not grafted into Israel but rather grafted into Christ.
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." ~ John 15:5
@@livepoetic390 That’s simply false, the church is not Israel. That’s why God still has a plan to save Israel during the tribulation period, whilst the church is already saved.
I think the disagreement at the end comes down to which Jerusalem the Jews and Gentiles inherit together & which Jerusalem is promised to the people of Israel, the natural descendants of Abraham. We live in a now but not yet reality where the fullness of the new has not yet been made manifest. The Jerusalem that is of this world is part of the promised land promised to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Jerusalem, that is part of the new creation is the inheritance of all the children of Abraham, including those gentiles who by faith become Abraham’s children.
Debate NEEDS more back and forth por favor.
Joshua 23:14 And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. 15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.
16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.
The geographic promises made to Israel were fulfilled in the book of Joshua. The promises made in Jeremiah and Isaiah were for the return after Babylonian captivity. There is no doubt that God kept that promise to return the Jews to Israel after the Babylonian captivity in order for Christ to be born into Israel fulfilling the Messianic prophecies. This is not hard to understand when viewed in the historical context of Israel and the Babylonian captivity. Dr. Brown says "The big thing is salvation".
I would add these verses from 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
So Christ rejecting Israel denies the Lord Jesus and somehow we are "spiritually" brothers? Not hardly. This does not mean we are to hate or be "anti" anyone. All in all it is about the Lord Jesus Christ. Peter says all of this will be destroyed, melted away. It is about Christ and His finished work and nothing else.
All the promises of God find their 'yes' in Christ. Christ is our priest, king, prophet, sacrifice for sin, fulfillment of the holy Law of God, Sabbath rest, temple (where we meet with God), and he leads all his people into the promised land a heavenly country a city prepared for them and certain, as in Hebrews which is the same land the OT saints where looking toward. I have trouble with what I consider a low Christology that implies Jesus didn't fulfill the land promises and they must be fulfilled by God in this current world apart from Christ.
I’m just upset that nobody got the joke at 30:08. I found it absolutely hilarious. Good one Dr. Brown.
I'm at 23:50+ where Brown says the promises (whatever they are) were to the physical descendants of Abraham. Ok, but where are those physical descendants going to come from since there are no identifiable physical descendants of Abraham today. As I understand it, there are no existing genealogies to substantiate such a lineage for anybody.
I suppose you could say, well, God knows who they are (or will be). But there is a very murky problem with how much DNA from Abraham you'd need to qualify, and I think it's probably likely that having some non-zero fraction would include a great number of the world's population across the globe. That this great mass of people would somehow inherit the land of Israel seems nonsensical.
Thus Brown's 'physical' argument seems to me to fall flat from the git-go.
Very interesting to listen to you both I know this was made 5 years ago I wonder if that same debate happened today if anything would be different. People that I have discussed this issue with with at least in my opinion seem to be people who really don't know God's word. Like Dr Michael Brown said there's hundreds of verses referring to the land. To say now that it's all negated and doesn't mean anything now, after the coming of Christ doesn't make any sense of course in view of the word of God!
Even here in the New Testament Paul makes a distinction between Jews and Greeks "Gentiles"
This is not the Old Testament the New Testament
Why in the world would God have the apostle Paul make a distinction here????? It's because the promises to physical Israel still count!!!
Romans 2:9-10 NASB1995
[9] There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, [10] but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
So if they follow the Torah, believe in the father but not in Jesus they are safe, they will go to heaven, is that what dr brown is saying?
Dr. Brown,
Please explain Isaiah 56:1-8, 66:23 if you believe the land of Israel is only for the physical tribes: Jews (and Ephraim).
I agree with your statement on circumcision (56:20), though I doubt you meant it.
First rule to Abram was to circumcise all males in his household.
That still applies to any who want to be part of the covenant.
Circumcision marks me as a son of Abraham, but it does not necessarily make me part of Judah.
It is a spiritual discussion. The natural carnal man cannot discern the truths of the Spirit.
QUESTION
In Hebrews 7:27, 10:11-12&18, we're taught that Jesus is the final sin offering, and Romans 6:10 says that he died to sin once and for all. But in Ezekiel 45, a prophecy which has yet to be fulfilled, we're told in verse 22 that the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land. If Jesus is the prince, why would he need to provide a sin offering on behalf of his sinless self, and would any sin offering need to take place if Jesus is the final sin offering? Thanks
Chad Ellis nobody ever answers this one😂😂👀👀I need to know
The messiah coming into the world is not what dissolved the covenant. The death of the messiah is. Read your Bible thoroughly. Deut 28:15,64, 29:1,14-15, 30:1-6, 1 King 11:31-39, Jeremiah 3, Jer 50:17, Micah 2:12, Ezek 11:16,17, Ezek 16 Ezek 23, Ezek 34:12, John 10:3,4,7,11,14-16, 1 Peter 1:1-2, James 1:1-2, Amos 9:9, Romans 9:24-28, Hosea 1:3-11, Eph 2, Rev 11:3-4, Rev 17,18. God Bless.
What "Abrahamic Covenant" does the moderator constantly refer to? Is he inferring that the Mosaic Covenant must be rolled into it, as well? If so, I disagree violently
Rahab joined his people therefore she is an Israelite and by extension therefore there is no ethnic favoritism on Gods part. Now that is an example of extending an idea way out of context. Trying to make new rules out of exceptions.
How can God keep his land promise to Irsrael and Judah.
When the .Northern kingdom and its people are lost to history.
Dispensationalism just got annihilated.
The problem has many sides.
1. You can't say that the promise to Abraham/ Israel is just ME real estate. You cant say its occupation is not conditional
2. To equate armed force as a Kingdom sanctioned method to accheive Gods Kibgdom via territorial objectives is 100 % faulty. Any christian view which sees the " progress of a secular state" as a key input to the extension of Gods Kingdom needs to revisit its great commission obligations.
3. The church is a peacemaker. The Church should be doing everything it can to stop violence and to encourage a just and equitable settlement of this problem. If the church in South Africa could stand up to right wing extremism, then both the state of Israel and the West bank need to hear rhe church
Israel is a secular state. It has no bill of rights. A poor constitution. No freedom to preach the Gospel!! - imrisonment.
4. The present reality is two peoples r calling out for justice. They are, of course, their own authors of justice= with the churches support.
Jesus is Lord Its his World, his creation. . His purposes are all defining = not some demeaned outcome consisting of a piece of Land. As opposed to the cosmos.
This is the difference between an Anti-Semite and a Christian.
There is no salvation in believing the Jews killed Jesus there is only salvation in knowing it is the will of God.
Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Salvation comes from God, not man.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
All is right about God’s Covenant, who is promise keeper .
Then the question arose that … the God died on the Cross .
I think - learnt that both covenant hold , who dies … the covenant is full filled .
Am I wrong ?
Jesus gave us new Covenant love the God and your neighbor.
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All of Abrahams' household was circumcised. So the descendants of Esau and Ishmuel were circumcised. The promise of the land was given to the descendants of Jacob. His twelve sons were the one who got the land of Canaan. Dr. Brown walked into a trap.
I was wondering in Jews for Judisiam..do they still hold on to the law of Moses to stone those caught in adultery? And if not how did this change in Jews for Judisiam if they hold on to the whole law of Moses? Or do they still practice this? I know this was done away with Yeshua , so we can have everlasting life through him as in John 8 , Romans6