My guess a about the weird amount of death references, is death was one of the common parts of life children and adults were both aware of. It's only recently in our history we could pretend death is taboo and rare. Funerals, finding dead bodies, still borne children, watching someone die of the flu, was just part of life. So it was certainly a topic of common experience.
You have one of the calmest and sweetest voice i have ever heard. Anyhow. From my experience an overwhelming majority of the time IQ is mentioned, it’s more about ego than anything else. So many people drop mid sentence what their score is, pretending not to be bragging.
@campbellzachc 😊 You might have slightly missed my point there. The hilarity came from the commenter's obviously pretended innocence of the true meaning of the words they were interpreting. That was witty. On second thoughts, what if the commenter was serious? That possibility is what I'd hoped not to be the case.
predictive programming. to mush the brain early to create compliance. setting the ground for a masculine ego centered reality where pain is normalized.
Thanks so much for another video going into detail about something I knew a bit about, but not enough. I always did well on tests, including IQ tests; so well that I was told that I could skip not just one grade, but three, when I was about ten. I guess I was at least normally bright, because that idea seemed crazy to me. Thank goodness my parents (for one of the few times in my childhood) ASKED me what I wanted to do, and I absolutely refused. I hated school, and was bullied already for being different (though bullies picked on anyone they could). My main thought about this offer at the time was 'If I get picked on now, how much worse will it be if I get put into a classroom where everyone is older and bigger than me, AND I really will stick out as different?' I may not have commented here about this, except that it reminded me that, when my son was in second grade, he had struggles, too. He seemed to be easily distracted at times, so his teacher -- who had known hime for a matter of a few weeks -- suggested he might have ADHD (a whole nother topic). He was given an IQ test, and the school psychologist said he was off the charts. Not only was it the highest score for a kid his age that she'd personally seen, but the highest she'd ever heard of. Now, by this time, I knew a fair amount about IQ tests and their history, abuse, and inadequacy, so I was not as impressed as some might have been. We already knew that he was wicked smart. One of the remedies they offered was for him to skip a grade. But we refused right away because we knew that, though he was way ahead of his classmates in formal education, he was actually, and we though, fairly obviously, behind them socially. My point with this screed? IQ tests are flawed, overrated, and not particularly useful beyond what Binet and Simon intended. Good for Simon for protesting against their test being used inappropriately. I will say good things about our son's experience, though; and how the IQ test did help him. His teacher now understood that he was bored in class (he, in most of his grades, knew all the 'milepost' concepts that he was supposed to learn that year before the school year started). But, he needed to be there, getting to be with others and learn the vitally important informal things that are much more important than school work. We, as his parents, worked with the school to make sure that he was given challenging work to do on his own. At first, they had tried just giving him MORE work, to 'keep him busy'. (I had experienced this, too, as kid.) It seemed so bizarre to us: He already knew all the stuff they were covering, so why should he work on that at all, let alone be given more work to be bored by?*** We lobbied for a different approach, and got it. In my school days, once I refused the grade skipping, nothing else was ever done, and I just educated myself, for the most part; at least until high school. ***This brings another topic to mind: homework. What's it actually for, and how is it chosen? I was on our school board for 11 years, and was exposed to plenty of research that shows that most of it is, at best, a waste of time and, at worst, actually harmful because it turns kids off from wanting to learn when they are just given work to just 'keep them busy' (which is an openly stated and most popular defense of the practice). And, when schools have tried to limit, or even get rid of homework, it's PARENTS who complain, even if you get them to think back to how much they hated it. The schools have the kids for almost as many hours per day as their parents spend at their jobs, and then the kids are given even more to do at home! Kids are not made for that. Sorry for the essay! Can you tell this is a bugbear for me?
Your interpretation of the question is interesting. 4:23 The question was asking what you *ought* to do if a friend hits you accidentally. There's no hint of a "falling out" at all. They are trying to determine whether or not the child understands intention and appropriate choices of response. Crying is not a choice a child makes and so is irrelevant to the question. It also indicates a self-focus on the child itself. Its first thought is of its own potential suffering and completely misses the intent of the question. Remember, the question is for ten year-olds who are expected to have critical thinking skills enough to interpret the question in those terms. This is another focus on intent: what is the intent of the question/questioner; what information are they attempting to retrieve by asking the question? This question is also an indicator of the child's ability to empathise with another person by looking at those same areas of their response: are they only aware of the world in terms of how it directly affects them (I would cry); are they able to place themselves in another's shoes (what would my reasons be for asking that question of someone?). The question doesn't "specifically target sensitive kids", whatever "sensitive kids are", as the test would be 100% useless if they "targeted" anyone, and the people creating the questions were aware of that. They were not stupid. The question is very sensible and straightforward and I'd expect 90% of today's 10 year-olds to understand it well and pass the test with ease.
You are used to learning for the test instead of actual learning. This could also be because the new school was ahead of the old school in teaching (it happened to me once).
@ imagine being my age (over 50) and learning that everyone and his brother and cousin from another nation was here before Columbus. You get the gold star for repeating what they told you back to them.
As an officer in the Norwegian military, who had the privilege to see all tests results of whom to train and command in infantry service - some hundreds, even if I only served actively only a couple of years - I have some experience: Norway had conscript service, all young men were tested. To the test an interview followed. So did also a superficial medical inspection and a short test of physical conditions. This was done a year or so prior of service. The scores were divided into nine groups, with percentages: 2-4-8-16-40-16-8-4-2. I saw none in the low 2-percentile, as they were declared too stupid to serve. In the 2+4-percentile I saw only one, as in practice most of these were too stupid too. He was as stupid as it gets, and a real struggle and menace to his fellow soldiers. (As some played games to avoid conscript service, I assume his interviewers didn’t believe him being that stupid.) The shining lights of people one would recognize as intelligent, all scored the two top levels. These, the 4+2 percentile, would be those the platoon would recognize as smart and intelligent. When problems would surface, these would be sought for. Honestly, I was shocked how predictable and accurate the tests were. No one could cheat to score high, but could someone cheat or having a bad day becoming too low? I regret thoroughly that I as a young 20 years old commander for the recruits accepted a soldiers request to re-take the IQ tests. He was extremely motivated to be trained to be a squad leader, and was in all practical tests the best in this recruits platoon - three weeks in, for a three month period. Squad leaders should be average or above, and he was one step below. He once again - fully motivated - failed to be average. As the months passed, it became clear to me he was a jolly good fellow totally motivated to service but not at all of the substance needed to solve problems occurring instantly in front of his eyes. The hard landing he took failing the second time for something not possible for him to achieve, was - as the famous writer Henrik Ibsen stated; stealing the lie of his life, which was his life. He would be better off not knowing. My honest testimony is IQ testing is an essential and effective way to ensure the best problem solvers is placed at their right tier.
I was only slightly surprised by the art style that they didn't include the optical illusion drawing where it can appear to be either the Mademoiselle or the Crone.
The "dark" history of IQ testing is largely caused by people ignoring the reality and implications of intelligence. While not perfect, IQ tests are among the most validated psychometric measures ever created. Ignore at your own risk.
One thing i regret we never see a lot of is a history of the iq tests used today (like the wais/wisc and maybe the cattell scale). Histories of iq always seem to stop in the 1930s, when the tests used now have hardly anything in common with those used then. I'm sure that'd be interesting to cover
Very valuable. I'd heard before about the change in intent and scope of the tests but it was about a broader trend, so the detail here was useful. Thank you
The American SAT tests, used widely for college admissions, are descended from these tests, and early on there was a formula to convert an SAT score into an IQ.
While the early history of intelligence testing crosses unfortunate paths with bad science and racism (as the history of many sciences do), it's important not to confuse this with the idea that IQ is somehow a myth or itself bad science. In fact, the "g" factor is one of the most solidly replicated findings in all of cognitive science and psychometrics. The concept of g (similar to IQ) is a real thing. It's a terrible way to think about morality or measure the value of a human being, but it's important that we continue to study and understand human intelligence if we are to understand more about ourselves and how our brains work.
The SAT is barely an IQ test, it has some spacial differentiation questions, but that's it. It's a knowledge test. The SAT can't be an intelligence test due to legislation, there's only one legal IQ discriminatory test in the US, that bein the ASVAB. Military doesn't care what you know, just your capability to learn
SJG was brilliant, but ignored facts in his critique. Don't take his word on this as gospel. In addition, the presenter of this video is trained math/physics, not psychometry.
What I've taken away from this video (obvious hyperbole and humoristic, but it is striking): You can try to make advances for the betterment of humanity, and it may just work out, but you will be ridiculed and fought every step of the way because there's going to be someone who just doesn't like you. If you want to get rich though, take a metric and put it over another median number for that metric and multiply by 100 and become a legend for no reason.
8:00 can.. someone help me understand what's missing on image 4 ? (ie the first face, the cheerful face at the top of the page) edit: oops, i think i figured it out. i think watching cartoons and anime confused me with what the norms of this test
I got 140 on the Cattell B scale at age 12, but I have since been formally diagnosed with Autism and awaiting diagnosis for ADHD too. So in school, I could use my brain effectively, but culturally, my brain was ineffective and I was branded "The Weird Kid".
I feel ya. I've found some different teaching methods that would have been better for someone like us. One of them is montessori schools. One post on x was talking about how many schools focus on socialization of young children. But scientists say very young kids more often enjoy solo play and exploring the world. They instead lets the kids learn and explore the things they are into. When socialization is forced, kids can learn to resent it or learn how to manipulate others for attention. I had trouble relating to other kids bc i just wanted to talk about something i had read or about how something works. So i would info dump, get poor reactions and eventually decide that i didnt like other kids.
Autistic, as well. I can definitely relate. In first grade I tested with a ninth grade science level, but my mom didn't want me to skip grades because something, something, socialization... I was already having issues socializing with kids my age. Put me in a higher grade, that'll probably remain the same with those classmates, but at least I won't be bored by the schoolwork. I also had to go to summer school that year because of flash card math. Too bad we won't just be carrying calculators around with us everywhere...Oh, wait. 😅
Very illuminating. I've always done really well on tests, including "IQ" tests. It's sad to think how someone could be labeled or treated simply because they don't do well on some test, for whatever reason.
Very nice, Tibees! I've followed you ever since you were studying Maths. ❤ This exposition was very neutral and informative. Excellent!!! And I found much that was new to me. And the respect you showed to Binet and the others really impressed me!
A relative (background in psychology) commented these tests usually follow several gimmicks and once you learn to recognize them, the test are fairly benign (i.e.- the test is in understanding the intent of the question, not necessarily as a measure of intelligence). There are substitute tests in problem solving, but even these can be gamed to an extent. And all the usual caveats of culture informing what is considered "intelligent".
I think “intelligence” is _precisely_ the ability to game tests. If you conceptualise life as a series of tests-and many people, not that I'm saying they're right, do-there's even a kind of logic to this.
The culture caveat is a bit tedious because culturally neutral humans don't exist and there can never be a culturally neutral test. The function of the test is to discover compatibility, but the pernicious myth of cultural neutrality has forced institutions to adopt underhanded methods. See: the Myers Briggs scam
@@stephenspackman5573 Maybe, but then the notion of meritocracy is absolutely destroyed as the meta gaming is nothing more than signifies. You lose what little credibility you had and justification for testing in the first place (beyond maintaining an old boys network). The real world generally supports multitudes of possible solutions with "correct" being conditional, which IQ testing bears no relationship to at all.
@@quintessenceSL Some of this depends on what you consider to be appropriate content for the tests themselves. If it's Latin and trivia, I agree that you select for the likes of Boris Johnson. If it's symbolic reasoning, though, maybe you get people like Paul Erdös (apologies for the incorrect accent, the phone keyboard doesn't give me full Unicode). Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer, but you can't game mathematics with an essay any more than you can game the government with set theory. My perspective on this may be a little skewed, because my parents literally taught me to game exams when I was a kid: they were teaching high school when I was in junior school, and when I had holidays and they didn't, they'd give me exams as a play activity. So I learned to get passing grades in Spanish and chemistry based on the internal evidence of the exam papers. I can confirm that this is not a useful life skill, but it doesn't even give you access to the old boys' network-just a 20% boost to test scores for the rest of your life. It might help you get hired at a second tier tech company, I guess.
I failed the eighth grade and was kicked out of high school twice before graduating with a high 'D' average. In my opinion, YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE AND YOU AINT WHAT YOU AINT! You are not here for THEM anyway so shine on!
Stephen Jay Gould had a class of his own students take a test rather like this administered to US Army recruits in WW1. He noted that they generally did well but some questions reflected the fact that they were drafted 60 or so years earlier. For example, many of his students failed to draw in a comb-like protrusion missing from a drawing of a phonograph - living decades later, his students had mostly never seen a phonograph.
Gould's book Mismeasure of Man, covers the era when such tests were given to African students and they were completely ignorant of such things as tennis courts etc. and thus of lower intelligence. Oh, and the tests weren't in their native language.
did i turn left when i should have turned right ? am i just stupid? it is just me or the world? ◄ Ecclesiastes 9:11 ► I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
I saw some comments talking about how IQ tests are a "great way" to recognize talent in children. I'd like to see them mention what exactly their goal is with that. I think if you view education as a right, there's nothing IQ tests bring to the table. If you see someone struggling with what they're being taught, then it's already obvious they need help with that. The fact that they're having trouble may not even have anything to do with their intelligence. Maybe they have trouble focusing in a large classroom, or they are going through something difficult and can't concentrate on school work. Regardless of the reason, they should get the help they need. Likewise if the student gets everything right with no trouble, that's a good indication that the student finds it too easy. In that case the student should be given harder questions so they can challenge themselves. None of that involves any special IQ testing. If on the other hand you think only those who are naturally clever enough deserve good quality education, then it makes sense to test for IQ. In that case though our morals and worldview differ so much that I think there's no point in arguing about it. Maybe there's something else I missed. I'd like to know.
I passed such a test in the 1960s. Results unknown to me to this day by private school recruiter, disappointed that I had chosen another school, in another language. To this day, “IQ” unknown. Slipped through the cracks of life. High school friends called me “encyclopedia”. Friend just called me “almanacs” fifty+ years later. Tests are always subjective, so who really knows how intelligence can be calibrated?
In the same way, that taking ownership of your work is a definite representation of your right as an agent, doing it for somebody else -a representation of your experience-
Your videos always show kind dignity as human being with full of facts I think myself as mostly pessimistic to the world need and learn your heartwarming attitude in reality thank you for such a wonderful talk
The algorithm was slow to bring me back here... but do I see a bump in in production??? Looks like a SM7B and maybe even a new camera? It looks and sounds great!
In short, it was meant as a tool for teachers to help them in their teaching and ensure the best possible learning for kids. Nothing more, nothing less.
Take a look at a typical multiple choice exam for a degree in biology. See if you can spot any way in which it measures intelligence or scientific aptitude.
I have an IQ of 137 and am a barely functioning member of society. My dad has an IQ of 104 and did higher math and quantum physics studies in college as well as retiring from the US Navy as a captain. IQ translates into nothing in the real world. Except maybe being able to get into Mensa, where you can be smugly smart with a bunch of other smug smart people.
interesting to see the origins of IQ tests. the idea that they measure inherent intelligence rather than acquired intelligence is definitely suspect. i always tested well, but turns out i was just spinning my wheels. oh, well...
Binet didn't call his test and Intelligence Quotient. You can thank Stanford University who took Binet's test and tweaked it, who first called it an Intelligence Quotient.
Excellent video . Video ideas : have tou ever thought reading the great works of scientist and then making a video where you would show how much this work made a step ahead in the discipline and what assumption in said work came out to be proven to be right or wrong or yet to be proven even . Eg: Copernicus Revolution ornibus, Newton's principia,Laplace , Einstein,Euclid,Marie Curie,etc. Yeah just a thought. Great video again by the way abouth the works of one the first psychologist in France Mr Binet
Kids grow up thinking their mother's are pretty. If they pick the female face in each pair then they are associating pretty with 'mother' and not with the societal norms they have grown up with.
For example: you might be a genious in engineering, or mathematics or abstraction. But, if you never do anything with it. -we are glorifying your ego, not your character-
only watched 29 seconds of the video but I heard from unreliable sources(JBP) that the iq test question types don't really matter, what really matters is the percentage of consistently correct answers. Formulating subcategories of question types matters mostly for research later on but 'consistent' is kind of illusive 1. the same person giving out the same answer across different time periods(but there'd be a danger of memorizing previous answers) 2. the same iq range (e.g. 130) having a similar sort of correct answer percentage. e.g. 130 iqs answering some particular potential question item correctly 30%~50% of the time is fine, the same 130 iq range getting it correct from 5% to 90% depending on how you subdivide the same 124 iq range is not fine. (but then how do you subdivide the same 130 iq range? aren't they the same? and what are the original iq test items that you included to decide that they are 130 iq?) 3. and more potential issues could exist. btw I always thought it showed lack of ego and poor taste that South Koreans decided to popularize 24 SD(instead of 15) in discussing iq test results, the attempt is so low-effort and desperate nationalism.
I suppose one would need to be in that age to truely understand the mindset of various sectors of society. The least intelligent may have been stunning to behold.
great video! Maybe you've shown more sides of it in other videos, but I'm curious why this one seems so negative towards standardized intelligence testing? I'm well aware of the horrors it has been used for, but it's also, to this very day, the single most powerful tool to recognize talent in children and adolescents on a large scale, especially in groups that would otherwise have prejudices working against them.
@@bahaman19901 "how" being the important part. If you can't create a definitive solution in your mind in a timely manner, you fail. If you think IQ tests are multiple choice based only, you're missing an extremely key component lol. I attempted all sorts of trials with different people and it became practically and immediately apparent why standard distributions exist. Plain and simple? Some people simply can't. It's not a disparagement to acknowledge reality for some; it's merely an attempt to quantify the abstract. That quantification is incredibly useful, mind all lol
Omg haha - Whats the difference between "Poverty and Misery". I wonder what that question were suppose to tell the upper class, that was/is 90% of the psychologists, about the kid in question..... 🤔🙄 Edit: But it seems like it *at least* was the start of good movement towards implementing special classes in schools. Even though it has been a rough first 80 years.. and now it's basically dismantled in a lot of places so it only had 10-15 years of real helpfulness, from the late 70s and somewhere in the 90s, though we at least know that it is the gold standard when done right.
As someone who grew up with severe dyslexia and ADD, I would've totally been sent to a psychiatric institute. 😅 The IQ tests might not have been a perfect metric, but I can appreciate not sending struggling kids off to 'purify' the education system.
My guess a about the weird amount of death references, is death was one of the common parts of life children and adults were both aware of. It's only recently in our history we could pretend death is taboo and rare. Funerals, finding dead bodies, still borne children, watching someone die of the flu, was just part of life. So it was certainly a topic of common experience.
That and taking photographs with the dead because it was so cost prohibitive to take photos that they only did so on special occasions.
You have one of the calmest and sweetest voice i have ever heard.
Anyhow.
From my experience an overwhelming majority of the time IQ is mentioned, it’s more about ego than anything else. So many people drop mid sentence what their score is, pretending not to be bragging.
I not only have a high IQ, I'm also renowned for my humility. 😂
I always thought how cruel it was to mention someone's mental ability on a street sign near their house. Saying SLOW children playing was unnecessary.
😂
Witty
...And, this is hoping that you meant the comment only in good humour...
Rocko’s Modern Life had a fun take on that where two characters were playing catch with a ball, but it was in slow motion. 😂
@@ProfRACEAcharawould you like them to assure you that they meant it egregiously? It’s okay to laugh at humor without apologizing.
@campbellzachc 😊 You might have slightly missed my point there. The hilarity came from the commenter's obviously pretended innocence of the true meaning of the words they were interpreting. That was witty. On second thoughts, what if the commenter was serious? That possibility is what I'd hoped not to be the case.
"Understanding is difficult. This is why people prefer to judge."
Why are there so many questions about people dying/killing themself 😭😭😭
And the no. of times little girl is mentioned is scary
This was a strange trend, and I only read out a small number of them
predictive programming. to mush the brain early to create compliance. setting the ground for a masculine ego centered reality where pain is normalized.
predictive programing for normalizing blood shed. conquest. ego driven establishment. So dark.
Cos it is part of life and society wasn't afflicted with PC back then.
Thanks so much for another video going into detail about something I knew a bit about, but not enough. I always did well on tests, including IQ tests; so well that I was told that I could skip not just one grade, but three, when I was about ten. I guess I was at least normally bright, because that idea seemed crazy to me. Thank goodness my parents (for one of the few times in my childhood) ASKED me what I wanted to do, and I absolutely refused. I hated school, and was bullied already for being different (though bullies picked on anyone they could). My main thought about this offer at the time was 'If I get picked on now, how much worse will it be if I get put into a classroom where everyone is older and bigger than me, AND I really will stick out as different?'
I may not have commented here about this, except that it reminded me that, when my son was in second grade, he had struggles, too. He seemed to be easily distracted at times, so his teacher -- who had known hime for a matter of a few weeks -- suggested he might have ADHD (a whole nother topic). He was given an IQ test, and the school psychologist said he was off the charts. Not only was it the highest score for a kid his age that she'd personally seen, but the highest she'd ever heard of. Now, by this time, I knew a fair amount about IQ tests and their history, abuse, and inadequacy, so I was not as impressed as some might have been. We already knew that he was wicked smart. One of the remedies they offered was for him to skip a grade. But we refused right away because we knew that, though he was way ahead of his classmates in formal education, he was actually, and we though, fairly obviously, behind them socially.
My point with this screed? IQ tests are flawed, overrated, and not particularly useful beyond what Binet and Simon intended. Good for Simon for protesting against their test being used inappropriately.
I will say good things about our son's experience, though; and how the IQ test did help him. His teacher now understood that he was bored in class (he, in most of his grades, knew all the 'milepost' concepts that he was supposed to learn that year before the school year started). But, he needed to be there, getting to be with others and learn the vitally important informal things that are much more important than school work. We, as his parents, worked with the school to make sure that he was given challenging work to do on his own. At first, they had tried just giving him MORE work, to 'keep him busy'. (I had experienced this, too, as kid.) It seemed so bizarre to us: He already knew all the stuff they were covering, so why should he work on that at all, let alone be given more work to be bored by?*** We lobbied for a different approach, and got it. In my school days, once I refused the grade skipping, nothing else was ever done, and I just educated myself, for the most part; at least until high school.
***This brings another topic to mind: homework. What's it actually for, and how is it chosen? I was on our school board for 11 years, and was exposed to plenty of research that shows that most of it is, at best, a waste of time and, at worst, actually harmful because it turns kids off from wanting to learn when they are just given work to just 'keep them busy' (which is an openly stated and most popular defense of the practice). And, when schools have tried to limit, or even get rid of homework, it's PARENTS who complain, even if you get them to think back to how much they hated it. The schools have the kids for almost as many hours per day as their parents spend at their jobs, and then the kids are given even more to do at home! Kids are not made for that.
Sorry for the essay! Can you tell this is a bugbear for me?
I always hated homework.
You fail if you say you'd cry after a falling-out with a friend is crazy. I'd imagine that specifically targets sensitive kids.
Your interpretation of the question is interesting. 4:23 The question was asking what you *ought* to do if a friend hits you accidentally. There's no hint of a "falling out" at all. They are trying to determine whether or not the child understands intention and appropriate choices of response.
Crying is not a choice a child makes and so is irrelevant to the question. It also indicates a self-focus on the child itself. Its first thought is of its own potential suffering and completely misses the intent of the question. Remember, the question is for ten year-olds who are expected to have critical thinking skills enough to interpret the question in those terms. This is another focus on intent: what is the intent of the question/questioner; what information are they attempting to retrieve by asking the question?
This question is also an indicator of the child's ability to empathise with another person by looking at those same areas of their response: are they only aware of the world in terms of how it directly affects them (I would cry); are they able to place themselves in another's shoes (what would my reasons be for asking that question of someone?).
The question doesn't "specifically target sensitive kids", whatever "sensitive kids are", as the test would be 100% useless if they "targeted" anyone, and the people creating the questions were aware of that. They were not stupid. The question is very sensible and straightforward and I'd expect 90% of today's 10 year-olds to understand it well and pass the test with ease.
I failed a test in middle school because I had just moved to the area and failed to ask such questions as what county I lived in.
You are used to learning for the test instead of actual learning. This could also be because the new school was ahead of the old school in teaching (it happened to me once).
@ imagine being my age (over 50) and learning that everyone and his brother and cousin from another nation was here before Columbus. You get the gold star for repeating what they told you back to them.
As an officer in the Norwegian military, who had the privilege to see all tests results of whom to train and command in infantry service - some hundreds, even if I only served actively only a couple of years - I have some experience:
Norway had conscript service, all young men were tested. To the test an interview followed. So did also a superficial medical inspection and a short test of physical conditions. This was done a year or so prior of service.
The scores were divided into nine groups, with percentages: 2-4-8-16-40-16-8-4-2.
I saw none in the low 2-percentile, as they were declared too stupid to serve. In the 2+4-percentile I saw only one, as in practice most of these were too stupid too. He was as stupid as it gets, and a real struggle and menace to his fellow soldiers. (As some played games to avoid conscript service, I assume his interviewers didn’t believe him being that stupid.)
The shining lights of people one would recognize as intelligent, all scored the two top levels. These, the 4+2 percentile, would be those the platoon would recognize as smart and intelligent. When problems would surface, these would be sought for.
Honestly, I was shocked how predictable and accurate the tests were. No one could cheat to score high, but could someone cheat or having a bad day becoming too low?
I regret thoroughly that I as a young 20 years old commander for the recruits accepted a soldiers request to re-take the IQ tests. He was extremely motivated to be trained to be a squad leader, and was in all practical tests the best in this recruits platoon - three weeks in, for a three month period. Squad leaders should be average or above, and he was one step below. He once again - fully motivated - failed to be average. As the months passed, it became clear to me he was a jolly good fellow totally motivated to service but not at all of the substance needed to solve problems occurring instantly in front of his eyes. The hard landing he took failing the second time for something not possible for him to achieve, was - as the famous writer Henrik Ibsen stated; stealing the lie of his life, which was his life. He would be better off not knowing.
My honest testimony is IQ testing is an essential and effective way to ensure the best problem solvers is placed at their right tier.
The military isn't real life. Testing for an abstraction like the military isn't an absurdity. A messy world will have messy solutions.
Glad to see they at least had the correct stance on snitching.
"if you think they're both pretty, you fail"
@@Joe-sg9ll based
I was only slightly surprised by the art style that they didn't include the optical illusion drawing where it can appear to be either the Mademoiselle or the Crone.
It's really a shame we didn't continue calling it "the BS test".
someone got a low score..
IQ is strongly correlated with life expectancy, educational attainment, and financial success.
The "dark" history of IQ testing is largely caused by people ignoring the reality and implications of intelligence. While not perfect, IQ tests are among the most validated psychometric measures ever created. Ignore at your own risk.
You can predict most of these things fairly consistent based on a person's postal code.
One thing i regret we never see a lot of is a history of the iq tests used today (like the wais/wisc and maybe the cattell scale). Histories of iq always seem to stop in the 1930s, when the tests used now have hardly anything in common with those used then. I'm sure that'd be interesting to cover
Very valuable. I'd heard before about the change in intent and scope of the tests but it was about a broader trend, so the detail here was useful. Thank you
The American SAT tests, used widely for college admissions, are descended from these tests, and early on there was a formula to convert an SAT score into an IQ.
While the early history of intelligence testing crosses unfortunate paths with bad science and racism (as the history of many sciences do), it's important not to confuse this with the idea that IQ is somehow a myth or itself bad science. In fact, the "g" factor is one of the most solidly replicated findings in all of cognitive science and psychometrics. The concept of g (similar to IQ) is a real thing. It's a terrible way to think about morality or measure the value of a human being, but it's important that we continue to study and understand human intelligence if we are to understand more about ourselves and how our brains work.
The SAT is barely an IQ test, it has some spacial differentiation questions, but that's it. It's a knowledge test. The SAT can't be an intelligence test due to legislation, there's only one legal IQ discriminatory test in the US, that bein the ASVAB. Military doesn't care what you know, just your capability to learn
@@noderunner9WACISM?????? oh noooo
This is false...way back when, a few people tried to devise a formula to convert SAT scores to IQ, but they weren't accurate.
@realdealforreallllllllllllly they are though
The late Stephen Jay Gould in _Mismeasure Of Man_ was very critical of this kind of thing.
SJG was brilliant, but ignored facts in his critique. Don't take his word on this as gospel. In addition, the presenter of this video is trained math/physics, not psychometry.
Yay new tibees video 🎉
Me studying for the idiocy test
Great post my friend. Thanks for sharing this here.... very interesting. Hope you're having a wonderful week. Much love, care and blessings to you. 💛😇
What I've taken away from this video (obvious hyperbole and humoristic, but it is striking):
You can try to make advances for the betterment of humanity, and it may just work out, but you will be ridiculed and fought every step of the way because there's going to be someone who just doesn't like you. If you want to get rich though, take a metric and put it over another median number for that metric and multiply by 100 and become a legend for no reason.
7:16 near the bottom of the page - what the heck is a "one-sided talent"?
I can't do the IQ test. Apparently I have an IQ of nil.😢
Yay, a new upload! Made my day :D
8:00 can.. someone help me understand what's missing on image 4 ? (ie the first face, the cheerful face at the top of the page)
edit: oops, i think i figured it out. i think watching cartoons and anime confused me with what the norms of this test
the eyes
I got 140 on the Cattell B scale at age 12, but I have since been formally diagnosed with Autism and awaiting diagnosis for ADHD too. So in school, I could use my brain effectively, but culturally, my brain was ineffective and I was branded "The Weird Kid".
I feel ya. I've found some different teaching methods that would have been better for someone like us. One of them is montessori schools. One post on x was talking about how many schools focus on socialization of young children. But scientists say very young kids more often enjoy solo play and exploring the world. They instead lets the kids learn and explore the things they are into. When socialization is forced, kids can learn to resent it or learn how to manipulate others for attention. I had trouble relating to other kids bc i just wanted to talk about something i had read or about how something works. So i would info dump, get poor reactions and eventually decide that i didnt like other kids.
Autistic, as well. I can definitely relate.
In first grade I tested with a ninth grade science level, but my mom didn't want me to skip grades because something, something, socialization...
I was already having issues socializing with kids my age. Put me in a higher grade, that'll probably remain the same with those classmates, but at least I won't be bored by the schoolwork.
I also had to go to summer school that year because of flash card math.
Too bad we won't just be carrying calculators around with us everywhere...Oh, wait. 😅
I know whereof you speak.
woah 😯
Thank you for the amazing content
All the love and gratitude
Very illuminating. I've always done really well on tests, including "IQ" tests. It's sad to think how someone could be labeled or treated simply because they don't do well on some test, for whatever reason.
Very nice, Tibees! I've followed you ever since you were studying Maths. ❤ This exposition was very neutral and informative. Excellent!!! And I found much that was new to me. And the respect you showed to Binet and the others really impressed me!
A relative (background in psychology) commented these tests usually follow several gimmicks and once you learn to recognize them, the test are fairly benign (i.e.- the test is in understanding the intent of the question, not necessarily as a measure of intelligence).
There are substitute tests in problem solving, but even these can be gamed to an extent. And all the usual caveats of culture informing what is considered "intelligent".
I think “intelligence” is _precisely_ the ability to game tests. If you conceptualise life as a series of tests-and many people, not that I'm saying they're right, do-there's even a kind of logic to this.
The culture caveat is a bit tedious because culturally neutral humans don't exist and there can never be a culturally neutral test. The function of the test is to discover compatibility, but the pernicious myth of cultural neutrality has forced institutions to adopt underhanded methods. See: the Myers Briggs scam
@@stephenspackman5573 Maybe, but then the notion of meritocracy is absolutely destroyed as the meta gaming is nothing more than signifies. You lose what little credibility you had and justification for testing in the first place (beyond maintaining an old boys network).
The real world generally supports multitudes of possible solutions with "correct" being conditional, which IQ testing bears no relationship to at all.
@@quintessenceSL Some of this depends on what you consider to be appropriate content for the tests themselves. If it's Latin and trivia, I agree that you select for the likes of Boris Johnson. If it's symbolic reasoning, though, maybe you get people like Paul Erdös (apologies for the incorrect accent, the phone keyboard doesn't give me full Unicode). Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer, but you can't game mathematics with an essay any more than you can game the government with set theory.
My perspective on this may be a little skewed, because my parents literally taught me to game exams when I was a kid: they were teaching high school when I was in junior school, and when I had holidays and they didn't, they'd give me exams as a play activity. So I learned to get passing grades in Spanish and chemistry based on the internal evidence of the exam papers.
I can confirm that this is not a useful life skill, but it doesn't even give you access to the old boys' network-just a 20% boost to test scores for the rest of your life. It might help you get hired at a second tier tech company, I guess.
Surely understanding the intent of the question is in itself an intelligent thing. IIRC that is how I did well in tests like these as a child.
I once took an intelligence test and a COVID test. Both tests came out negative.
Covid WAS an intelligence test, and most people failed miserably.
Can't help but wonder why the shelved books in the background have been arranged to form clusters that resemble one-another...
😂😂
Wolpaper
The Binet & Simon scale, so the BS scale in other words.
What does identifying a terrier as a cat do to one's IQ score?
I failed the eighth grade and was kicked out of high school twice before graduating with a high 'D' average. In my opinion, YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE AND YOU AINT WHAT YOU AINT!
You are not here for THEM anyway so shine on!
I appreciate your perspective that IQ is not as valuable as individual contribution
Stephen Jay Gould had a class of his own students take a test rather like this administered to US Army recruits in WW1. He noted that they generally did well but some questions reflected the fact that they were drafted 60 or so years earlier. For example, many of his students failed to draw in a comb-like protrusion missing from a drawing of a phonograph - living decades later, his students had mostly never seen a phonograph.
Gould's book Mismeasure of Man, covers the era when such tests were given to African students and they were completely ignorant of such things as tennis courts etc. and thus of lower intelligence. Oh, and the tests weren't in their native language.
My dumb brain failing the test because I was not hungry but interested in the wooden cube:
did i turn left when i should have turned right ? am i just stupid? it is just me or the world?
◄ Ecclesiastes 9:11 ►
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
I saw some comments talking about how IQ tests are a "great way" to recognize talent in children. I'd like to see them mention what exactly their goal is with that.
I think if you view education as a right, there's nothing IQ tests bring to the table. If you see someone struggling with what they're being taught, then it's already obvious they need help with that. The fact that they're having trouble may not even have anything to do with their intelligence. Maybe they have trouble focusing in a large classroom, or they are going through something difficult and can't concentrate on school work. Regardless of the reason, they should get the help they need.
Likewise if the student gets everything right with no trouble, that's a good indication that the student finds it too easy. In that case the student should be given harder questions so they can challenge themselves.
None of that involves any special IQ testing.
If on the other hand you think only those who are naturally clever enough deserve good quality education, then it makes sense to test for IQ. In that case though our morals and worldview differ so much that I think there's no point in arguing about it.
Maybe there's something else I missed. I'd like to know.
I passed such a test in the 1960s. Results unknown to me to this day by private school recruiter, disappointed that I had chosen another school, in another language. To this day, “IQ” unknown. Slipped through the cracks of life. High school friends called me “encyclopedia”. Friend just called me “almanacs” fifty+ years later. Tests are always subjective, so who really knows how intelligence can be calibrated?
Intelligence test, Page 1, Question 1:
Be sure your child's eyes are not "incordinated".
-genius
yep,just casually throwing in situations where someone has died or killed somebody. Simply charmant times were back then !
In the same way, that taking ownership of your work is a definite representation of your right as an agent, doing it for somebody else -a representation of your experience-
Hey there. Please disable auto translations for titles and descriptions. They sound weird in French.
Your videos always show kind dignity as human being with full of facts I think myself as mostly pessimistic to the world need and learn your heartwarming attitude in reality thank you for such a wonderful talk
Thanks for sharing 👍
As a general litmus test is understanding how low, middle or high IQ of people is how they relate to gossip, events and ideas.
The algorithm was slow to bring me back here... but do I see a bump in in production??? Looks like a SM7B and maybe even a new camera? It looks and sounds great!
13:46 This cat has identity issues 😂
In short, it was meant as a tool for teachers to help them in their teaching and ensure the best possible learning for kids. Nothing more, nothing less.
Super interesting video :)
Chobi's not suspicious at all. They're an honorary cat for the purposes of this video. 😻
a friend hits you and you fail if you tell an adult… they didnt raise no snitches back then
Seeing how absurd the questions are makes me wonder how absurd the things are that we teach now...
Of the faces- the right one for french men at the time for the third set of faces is the element that's on the left
Enjoyed that. Better swot up.
About relativity: it's a least minimum square function
Because, your worth in society is not merited by your intelligence or your objective self. But, by what you actually do with it.
So in the second or third iteration as used by others this was deployed as a eugenics tool?
1:18 "I don't know, but I can tell you which one is shorter!" :)
$1 in 1900 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $37.56 today.
Is that turquoise, teal, or aquamarine? 💙
Take a look at a typical multiple choice exam for a degree in biology.
See if you can spot any way in which it measures intelligence or scientific aptitude.
Humans scare me. The most unpredictable of any species.
Happy.birthday👍
I have an IQ of 137 and am a barely functioning member of society. My dad has an IQ of 104 and did higher math and quantum physics studies in college as well as retiring from the US Navy as a captain. IQ translates into nothing in the real world. Except maybe being able to get into Mensa, where you can be smugly smart with a bunch of other smug smart people.
From where we can read original research paper of some physicists like Schrodinger, etc..
interesting to see the origins of IQ tests. the idea that they measure inherent intelligence rather than acquired intelligence is definitely suspect. i always tested well, but turns out i was just spinning my wheels. oh, well...
What about learning disabilities, problems of hearing and eyesight?
There is only two ways you can be succesful in intelligence: cut your costs, and become proggresively more efficient: that is Wage/Time
Binet didn't call his test and Intelligence Quotient. You can thank Stanford University who took Binet's test and tweaked it, who first called it an Intelligence Quotient.
starting to get a bit weird when you get to 11
Imagination is the source of real genius,as all the great discoveries were made by those who could imagine what others could not.
Excellent video .
Video ideas : have tou ever thought reading the great works of scientist and then making a video where you would show how much this work made a step ahead in the discipline and what assumption in said work came out to be proven to be right or wrong or yet to be proven even . Eg: Copernicus Revolution ornibus, Newton's principia,Laplace , Einstein,Euclid,Marie Curie,etc.
Yeah just a thought.
Great video again by the way abouth the works of one the first psychologist in France Mr Binet
Not sure this is IQ but I wonder how many adults would fail it today.
of course, such a simple test would invite corruption
What's it say in French?
Good history of the attempt to measure intelligence.
*hesitates* has anyone seen my candy?
Kids grow up thinking their mother's are pretty. If they pick the female face in each pair then they are associating pretty with 'mother' and not with the societal norms they have grown up with.
For example: you might be a genious in engineering, or mathematics or abstraction. But, if you never do anything with it. -we are glorifying your ego, not your character-
This is how the current IQ tests will be viewed in the future.
Have you seen the "micro combs" lazer work Dr Erkintalo at Auckland University is doing?
Surely, reading ability was being tested, as much as anything else.
So it does matter at what age you take an IQ test.
That's why the idea of it being used to measure adult intelligence is kinda pointless.
Does anyone know how can I test my iq at home
a good crossword
@joe47771 thanks that is a great way but any kind of website or somethin
How about Mathematics for the Million by Lancelot Hobgen? Teaching math by/with concepts.
That “highlighter” is so bland I can hardly see it
only watched 29 seconds of the video but I heard from unreliable sources(JBP) that the iq test question types don't really matter, what really matters is the percentage of consistently correct answers. Formulating subcategories of question types matters mostly for research later on
but 'consistent' is kind of illusive
1. the same person giving out the same answer across different time periods(but there'd be a danger of memorizing previous answers)
2. the same iq range (e.g. 130) having a similar sort of correct answer percentage. e.g. 130 iqs answering some particular potential question item correctly 30%~50% of the time is fine, the same 130 iq range getting it correct from 5% to 90% depending on how you subdivide the same 124 iq range is not fine.
(but then how do you subdivide the same 130 iq range? aren't they the same?
and what are the original iq test items that you included to decide that they are 130 iq?)
3. and more potential issues could exist.
btw I always thought it showed lack of ego and poor taste that South Koreans decided to popularize 24 SD(instead of 15) in discussing iq test results, the attempt is so low-effort and desperate nationalism.
I suppose one would need to be in that age to truely understand the mindset of various sectors of society. The least intelligent may have been stunning to behold.
That is a magnificent bookcase behind you! :D
Looks like wallpaper - if you look closely, there are repeating patterns.
Why? What kind of questions are those👾
Interesting, thanks, Tibees. By the way, the classic dog's name "Fido" has first syllable rhyming with tie, not with see.
great video! Maybe you've shown more sides of it in other videos, but I'm curious why this one seems so negative towards standardized intelligence testing? I'm well aware of the horrors it has been used for, but it's also, to this very day, the single most powerful tool to recognize talent in children and adolescents on a large scale, especially in groups that would otherwise have prejudices working against them.
IQ is a nonsense concept
A local recruiting station had me attempt to "mentor" people for the ASVAB. Bizarre job lol. "You can't fix stupid" is a legitimate cliché
what was your g score
iq scores increase when individuals are given training on how to answer the questions
@bahaman19901 to an extent
@@bahaman19901 "how" being the important part. If you can't create a definitive solution in your mind in a timely manner, you fail. If you think IQ tests are multiple choice based only, you're missing an extremely key component lol. I attempted all sorts of trials with different people and it became practically and immediately apparent why standard distributions exist.
Plain and simple? Some people simply can't. It's not a disparagement to acknowledge reality for some; it's merely an attempt to quantify the abstract. That quantification is incredibly useful, mind all lol
It seems the military believed the candidates would be best served by someone most like them. I hope they operate with a better model today.
You are really hidden genius. You have so much knowledge and you are hungry about intelligence
Omg haha - Whats the difference between "Poverty and Misery". I wonder what that question were suppose to tell the upper class, that was/is 90% of the psychologists, about the kid in question..... 🤔🙄
Edit: But it seems like it *at least* was the start of good movement towards implementing special classes in schools. Even though it has been a rough first 80 years.. and now it's basically dismantled in a lot of places so it only had 10-15 years of real helpfulness, from the late 70s and somewhere in the 90s, though we at least know that it is the gold standard when done right.
As someone who grew up with severe dyslexia and ADD, I would've totally been sent to a psychiatric institute. 😅 The IQ tests might not have been a perfect metric, but I can appreciate not sending struggling kids off to 'purify' the education system.
(selfishly) appreciate