Overwatch 2 - SEASON 7 Hero Tier List
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Baptiste and Illari (flex supports) are still too good.
🔸 TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Intro
0:36 1) DVa
0:56 2) Doomfist
1:31 3) Junker Queen
2:05 4) Orisa
2:53 5) Ramattra
3:21 6) Reinhardt
4:31 7) Roadhog
5:56 8) Sigma
6:46 9) Winston
7:21 10) Wrecking Ball
8:24 11) Zarya
8:49 12) Ashe
9:04 13) Bastion
10:36 14) Cassidy
11:36 15) Echo
12:01 16) Genji
12:41 17) Hanzo
13:08 18) Junkrat
14:01 19) Mei
14:47 20) Pharah
16:02 21) Reaper
16:41 22) Sojourn
17:24 23) Soldier:76
18:33 24) Sombra
21:20 25) Symmetra
22:11 26) Torbjorn
22:56 27) Tracer
24:08 28) Widowmaker
25:15 29) Ana
25:34 30) Baptiste
26:46 31) Brigitte
27:29 32) Illari
29:43 33) Kiriko
30:13 34) Lifeweaver
32:31 35) Lucio
33:29 36) Mercy
34:32 37) Moira
36:17 38) Zenyatta
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Игры
TBH just play whatever you want, this tier list is just my opinion. You can play anything to Top 500. Ok now talk ya trash 👇
Your uploads always leave me ROCK SOLID
Nuh uh
Kiriko is the best
@@kachow2461malphite reference?
Junker queen is still pretty good. The nerfs didn’t impact her too much.
I'm glad whenever someone makes 2 separate tier lists So that way we have an idea of what a character is like in both levels of play
It's not accurate. Some characters like Illari are S tier in most ranks
Poor zen, from being low tier, to high tier, and then back to low tier.
power creep has him in a struggle 😔
And some people wants to hard nerf his discor orb 😑
It's the only healer I play and it's almost unplayable against sombra.
The problem is that Tank player keep complaining about literally any form of utility in the game beside speed boost with discord being the most hated one, and so the devs probably don't want to push the hero even though he's really weak right now outside of circuit royal and Havana. Honestly at this point they should just make it so armor makes you immuned to debuffs so tanks stop complaining as much and things like discord, hack, sleep, ... can be good again
@@rouliettapouet9213well to be fair discord orb does need a rework it really isn’t the healthiest thing in the world especially for tank players
@@artimist0315I’m not a tank player, but in their defense they only have one character in their role now and get twice the utility dumped on them now, it was more manageable in ow1
Poor Zen. First, they nerf him, then they introduce a character that does everything he does but better, and now they also buff his most brutal counter to the point where he is completely unplayable when she's on the enemy team. One of the most unique and balanced supports, pushed into irrelevance by the blatant power creep that they refuse to address.
On jah
If they rework him I’m gonna be so pissed. He’s such a great design - an almost sitting duck that can outplay his counterparts with positioning and aim. He’s a character that it never feels unfair to die to.
It’d be sad to lose him to the absurdist stat check meta we’re in.
His buffs will come. Don't you worry. I see him being meta in 2 seasons.
@@EpicNova12
I love when people give lottery-pick answers like you.
@@TheThigh what do you mean?
I'm glad that people are starting to recognize it's kinda broken for Illari to shoot hitscan Hanzo log after an entire season
He deserves it
Starting? I swear we've been saying this since Day 1
people have been saying this since day 1
Been a problem since Day 1.
Wtf does hanzo log mean…
"Cut that Tracer part out" The editor did not cut that tracer part out
Fire the editor
Finally!! Been waiting for this vid, watching now! Thx for content
you're definitely right about soldier, at least for the "everyone else" tier. If I'm losing on Cass (my main) I can just switch to soldier and instantly start doing way better. The improved range and mobility is huge. Especially since bap and illari are meta, you can actually challenge them a little bit on Soldier when they're hanging back.
@@subtoadpCassidy ults are amazing, sure, but soldier is much more consistent overall
I only started playing this year. At the beginning of my play I tried to play Sojourn, but was horrible. But recently I went back and tried her again, it is great. I think my aim is a lot better now, so I can hit the full energy rail shots more frequently. Also, it is fun just laying into the tanks, melting them like butter, or at least getting the stored up energy way up.
Don't give up on learning any hero. It takes hella time. It took me 300 hours to get used to Sombra's old kit. So don't give up, and enjoy your time!
12:01 As a Genji player, the reason he feels useless to some is because of the overwhelming supports in the game. Idk how many times I’ve had to triple or quadruple slash with blade on a singular target because of immortality or pylon. Ntm his burst dmg combos aren’t enough when compared to what some supports can do
I play a lot of lucio at the high plat/low diamond level and he feels really solid into new sombra, people arent great at utilizing speed boost so its often off cooldown to amp through the virus dps. The new translocate is also very chaseable and boop is great for uncloaking her as she falls out of the sky.
Literally had a Lucio the other day not speed boost once. I was like bro have you never played Lucio or is this like a no speed boost challenge 😭
how do you do it, lucio is the only reason I still play the game at times but it feels like I'm jus not getting value with him. I'm also in the high plat/low diamond elo but this character feels miserable to play and idk why
plus people throwing and quitting when seeing a Lucio but that's normal
Lucio requires a team in common and people willing to stick together. If people are split, his value plummets.
That extremely short 5 second review of Ana where you didn't point out the intense power of anti-heal was a little telling.
Bro will literally die before he ever admits a problem with ana. That is his pet hero and he wont ever touch the issues with antinade. Its ridiculous.
yeah that is why you gotta take what he says with a grain of salt.
That's his MAIN main, he'd much rather tell you how busted Brig still is than to admit how Ana has ALWAYS been the most busted support in the entire game. I don't give a damn how much "skill" she takes, she needs to be reigned back in a little.
Ana is a fun character and id much rather play with or against ana as opposed to illari or lifeweaver
@@roguestratus8449 heres the thing, the 'skill' excuse isnt real anymore. She is the most played hero. Blizzard showed off stats. Not just support. Most played.
All the other high skill floor, high skill ceiling heros have lower playtimes. Its kind of a given, a harder hero will have less people able to extract value. And those heros dont even have something as strong as antinade.
You cant excuse powerful abilities as being 'skill based' when she is the single most played hero, and when the strongest thing in her kit is easier than ever to extract value from. You almost never need to save anti for yourself or actual healing, and with only one tank and less shields antinade now lands and is active more than ever.
And we are STILL getting the same excuse for it. At one point she was a really skill based hero.
The skill floor on her has dropped tremendously, and KarQ needs to come to terms with that reality.
For me the problem with the Brig is the comps that focus on taking down tanks. I understand that the ideal is to always try to hit the whipshot from a safe distance and keep the healing active for as long as possible, but when a comp appears with zarya, bastion and symmetra that are a problem for most tanks (at least on QP) , it loses all value since activating healing is a challenge that isn't worth it when you have much safer options to heal and maintain consistent damage like moira and lucio. She's been my main since launch and I've always managed to get around the nerfs and maintain good gameplay, but lately it's been difficult
Love your vids karq!! Your top 500 tier list analysis is super interesting to look at and understand. However, I’m not so sure about the other one… I completely get why you are making a second tier list for “whoever’s not in gm”, but I’m sure that the characters chosen in a bronze game are significantly different from a plat’s or diamond’s… Personally, I’m in diamond and I don’t feel like bastion is s tier at all or that life weaver, moira or rein are strong. Anyway, obviously I’m not asking you to make a tier list for every tier 😂😂. I’m just pointing out that maybe the range of the ““99.99% of players-tier list”” might not be fully representative of all the tiers below gm.
Agree with your tanks and dps for the most part, but Ana, Lifeweaver, and Kiri all should be up way higher on the list.
Karq is easily the most biased of the big OW content creators IMHO. He would genuinely rather neuter himself than ever admit there is a major issue with Ana. He will die on that hill. Funny dude with some good commentary but I would take his tier lists and balance opinions with the smallest grain of salt possible.
he has ana a teir and life weaver A+ wym way higher? you could only really think hes off by one or two tiers i think they're both a+ personally but its not far off
@@spacepope7867 I was about to say "I thought, when implying something was innacurate, the phrase would be 'take it with a massive grain of salt.' " But I looked into the origin, and the phrase apparently comes from the Naturalis Historia, in which one of the ingredients for an antidote for Poisons was a grain of salt. Thus any "threats of poison" were to be "taken with a grain of salt" to neutralize said poison. So, saying to take it with a tiny grain of salt is an implication that the "poison" (the weight of meaning behind his tier list in this situation), is very weak, and so not much salt is needed. Or maybe you could take it as, "his tier list is VERY WRONG!! and is a VERY STRONG "POISON" BC ITS FALSE, and thus a LOT of salt is needed! You could go either way! Thought u might like to know the origin, it was neat! :D
@@spooky5350 Yo very cool! Thats actually super neat and i love learning stuff like that! thanks my dude!
@@spacepope7867if there was such a major issue with Ana wouldn’t he be playing her a majority of the time instead of Baptiste? Wouldn’t that align with her immense value you’re implying she inherently has? Yet, he‘s on Baptiste, who he also really enjoys, and has repeatedly called for massive nerfs to almost every part of his kit. Doesn’t sound very biased to me!
I never thought I'd see Bastion in S tier. He's always been bottom tier for so long.
Minus his ult, yes.
Nice tier list
It took me all season to finally understand how to effectively play tank in this meta, kept either dominating or basically throwing, now i've finally got to the point where I understand the meta and support creep and am winning 6/7 games in a row for every loss, just hope the next balance update doesn't ruin tanking even further 🤣
This Hog rework better put my man on the map🗣️
I'm still making Zen work on some maps, but it's just so hard. It feels like everything kills you, be it flankers like Genji, Tracer, Sombra (particularly with the rework, it's brutal) but also longer range heroes like Ashe, Hanzo, Soj, widow, etc. The former category is obvious, since there's less peel in 5v5; in the case of the latter category, the lack of a shield means that to get value requires you to put yourself in danger to those heroes more. And it's gotten steadily worse since season 4. I quite frequently see people getting so much more value on mercy than I do on Zen, despite being so much easier. And that's for me, who actually can still pop off on Zen, the very few times I see someone else play Zen it doesn't go nearly as well. None of that even accounts for the fact that Illari is just better in the same comps now. Can we do something about the blatant power creep, Blizzard. And also fix Zen's hitbox, he's got a dumpster truck ass
Insane take. We need supports to be vulnerable dude. Season 5 ow dive pls return.
@@ar8590 all he said was to fix zen's hitbox, which isn't really an insane take. Zen's hitbox is the same size as Zarya's
@@Jacknorrington True, it should be the size of Roadhog then he's fixed
@@PsykeShow people who are mad at zen are just bad at the game. If you legitimately believe that zen should have a higher hitbox, then that's just because you're lower than plat and have yet to actually learn how the game works. There are several overpowered supports, but zen and brig are the most underpowered of them all and are easily killed
@@ar8590 dive wasn't even meta in season 5 lol. It was meta up until the season 4 midseason patch, when they buffed JQ. And funnily enough, Zen was quite playable at the time, despite it being a hard dive meta. But at the same time, composition felt more map dependent.
When Hanzo and Junk oneshots are neccesary evils you know something's up with balance and overall character design.
As a sombra main: she is strong? Yes. Is she OP? No.
The main problem is that 90% of players are stubborn and don't pick counters against her and only stick with what they like. She is really easy to deal with, specially if you know how to use her.
The way I see sombra is that you need to think one thing: "how much of a asshole I can be?". One thing I like is to fight against othe sombra, because you just need to pay attention if she is attacking your backline or front line and stay close to your team, hack and virus her once she initiates.
I agree sombra isn’t OP, I don’t even think she is better than half the dps in the game but we shouldn’t encourage counter swapping to kill her. To win the game with a cheap swap is boring, I personally rarely counter swap cause I’m trying to get better at my hero, I can learn how to play around my counters. Even if I play characters hard countered by sombra I don’t even find her that bad I think she’s in a really good spot.
They might just pull a season 1 genji and nerf her into the ground and then slightly buff her like 4 seasons later
@boiofbois4232 I do fear that, but I don't think she is that strong. Maybe a slight nerf like virus when hack ticking in 3 seconds instead of 2 would be reasonable, but more than that would make no sense. They don't want her to be such a cockblock? Ok, but they need to give her firepower instead.
She is mainly strong because people are still learning how to deal with her, because she never was a highly played hero. The only time in OW1 and 2 I mainly saw people playing her is when she was really strong in the beginning of OW2 and a bit now. So, she might be a old hero, but people rarely know how to deal with her because so few people do use her properly. I myself don't know exactly how to deal with Sombras despite been one myself
I miss good old days when supports were killable
Same. I also miss the days when tanks weren’t just glorified punching bags, the role is in dire need of assistance at the moment
@@FiestaTX17 True. It hurts when you see dedicated tank players stop playing their favorite pick (Yeatle is a great example) i was a tank main myself before giving up
@@FiestaTX17 they could've just gave tanks especially the ones without shields ones or ones that have openings some kind of CC Mitigation passive and we wouldn't be in this hellhole. Shit they're so close to this CC Mitigation when they made sleep dart having a lower duration effect on tanks and somehow it didnt cross their minds to instead make a Tank pass that reduces or mitigates the effects of CCs
It's honestly hilarious how when they introduced passives in OW2, they basically went "Yeah we're gonna make supports the most broken role in the game and give DPS and tanks essentially nothing." Why the fuck were passives introduced again?? 😂
@@Skycube100 That would be shit to play against if it only proc off CCs itself. Especially with those who doesnt have CC, imagine you cant do anything to stop the doom or ball busting your behind open without "stacking" the CC, as you cant really oneshot or even kill them already.
I think a good buff for zen would be to replace 25 of his white health with armor health (so a 150 shield, 25 white and 25 armor health split). I think that would be a sweet spot between 200 non-armored health and straight up buffing him up to 225 health which I believe would be a mistake.
Well, well, well.
“Cassidy’s identity has been shifted”
Wouldn’t of been the first time 💀
New Sombra completely shut down Widow, since Widow usually don't play in the same range as her supports so it is harder to peel for her, especially in lower rank.
So if Widow is being put low before, she's obsolete now.
I don't get why Sojourn is on the same tier as tracer, echo, and widow for 99% of playerbase. She is a solid good pick like ashe and soldier, I think people struggling with her because they're not used to her yet. Since I played her so much, she's so much easier now.
However, if Widow were to release today instead of being the og hero, almost everyone would say she's a throw pick. Metal rank teammates still throw slurr against an okay-ish widow.
On console, xim ashe players have been dominating gm, a lot of them also play with mercy pockets
30 year old ashe ximmer with his max range 15 year old discord kitten on mercy absolute classic
Market you might not have been aware of: your longer tier list vids are perfect walking-the-goblins-to-school listening.
0:56 I've never been so called out before
Oh look, a tier list!
The part of getting killed by a sombra which makes it so demoralizing is the fact that she just pops out of invis
Also I think larry is still S tier in the "Everyone Else" tier. Why? Because the turret is a *reliable* source of healing. Supports are sometimes oblivious in the lower ranks, and the turret covers up a lot of the obliviousness. That paired with how easy it is for her to pump out damage makes her a menace. The counterpoint is that some larrys will put their turrets in terrible spots where it has almost 0% uptime, but that's a low rank issue and doesn't apply to most of the ranks below GM.
Larry?
@@boxbird5723 Illari
Larry = Illari?????
I watched all of it from start to finish, love the insight
As a big Lucio main who has never hit top 500 (It’s not something I’m really working towards at the moment) but whenever I do play ranked a lot of the time my teammates (especially in Silver and Gold) will be constantly begging for heals, and what they don’t realize is that Lucio’s healing is pretty ass. His normal healing can’t actually guarantee a save, and the only way to get really effective healing is by amp healing. But of course they don’t understand that and they constantly beg for heals when they’re all not grouped up and all over the place and I have to just move to them constantly. Something that I’ve found working this season in ranked (especially in the lower ranks) is unleashing your inner dps/reddit Lucio and just demolishing the back lines. If you lose your team may flame you but it won’t really be your fault since you did actually do quite a bit those games. It can be extremely hard with the meta this season but it’s definitely doable (unless it’s a Mercy+Bastion then the bastion is basically unkillable) just look for 1 or 2 heroes on the enemy team that you can target and easily kill and that’s basically the most/best thing from my experience that you can do on Lucio in the lower ranks. If your team is indeed smart then this isn’t nessecary but it’s fun and also is very efficient at eliminating certain supports. If any other Lucio mains have any other opinions on my opinion feel free to enlighten me but personally this is what I mostly go with this season especially if your teammates are just yelling heal at you lol
I think the sentiment around Genji feeling weak right now isn't just whether he is actually weak due to the sustain and healing creep or if he is actually decent and you can make him work. I believe it's more he just doesn't feel fun or rewarding to play right now.
yeah i think he falls into the same trap that tanks fall into where it feels as though you have to put in a lot of effort to win, or you have to play extremely passively in some scenarios which is never fun for a dive dps
Inb4 that clip of healers out healing 3 nano blade swings
Genji is reliant on confirming kills to be able to get out of the dive. Deflect can save your ass in some situations, but the increasing number of abilities that ignore deflect, and the sustain that supports can put out reeally hurt his core gameplay, hence why he feels super weak right now.
When 2 healers can outheal nanoblade without popping ultimates, you know it's bad. It's bad enough that nanoblade isn't even that good anymore, and when I play genji, I mostly pop blade to kill one, maybe two people to turn a fight. Like a more dangerous high noon, or blossom it's for zoning people out or confirming picks on stranded players. Sometimes you have to spend your whole blade on a single hero just because you can't outdamage the healing with your ultimate.
Right now it's also very very passive to play (like a tank), you basically wait for the enemy cooldowns to go and make a play, but there are so many things to consider right now that the window of time to do so is ridiculously small.
Nah Nanoblade was, and still is one of the most busted ultimate combos in the game. Nanoblade slash+dash does a total of 240 damage in an almost instant burst. Supports can't outheal a one shot. If you have a decent Genji, Zen's Transcendence can't even outheal Nanoblade.
Yes. Genji would be fine if they nerfed support heroes properly and maybe give him 28 damage on shuriken or something, idk.
Mcree feels really good rn, definitely not as busted as launch but definitely at a healthy medium
Except for the range debuff, fricc that
Karq: “There’s more Mercy’s in the lower ranks for damage boost.”
Me: “That bitch sits on the tank and does nothing but heal beam them.”
I just hope with the hog rework he will feel as fun when playing in illios well.
Personally for normal players I would put tracer higher like a or maybe a plus because not many people know how to counter her and as a tracer player many maps have easy flank routes to blink in and out of with or without recall and her ult can be used many times, for example in one match I got of 4 ults all with value because damage is easy to farm but as you said she has a high skill floor
13:43 just wanna say that if you're playing Numbani Junk becomes S tier and Hanzo A+ tier. The way I've been able to absolutely dominate with these 2 on this map is insane, specially defense as junk
Lucio is completely trash in gm and outside. Outside his whack speed his kit is complete trash and yall ranking him always way too far up is fucking him up
He's really good in rush comps, he will always have his niche. And it's not exactly an uncommon niche either
His ult is also broken
You may not realize but Echo is actually a super easy hero to get value from the lower ranks. Any ability is just an easy one-shot and low level players generally have a lot of trouble hitting her, so she can fly wherever she likes. Echo is super cheesy and oppresive on the general ladder, her samage and easyness are nonsensical, even if you do nothing with the ult.
I had the opposite experience. People who started out as echo don't usually stay long with her.
But then again, even if it's a metal rank, the difference between bronze/silver to gold/plat, and diamond, are huge, not to mention the shitty matchmaking, so what you said could be true and wrong at the same time. Just like how Echo is either a hit or miss for me. Statistic wise though, she's bad in metal rank.
I respectfully disagree... I am assuming by lower ranks you mean Sub-plat.
I fluctuate between Gold and Plat and duo with high Silver to low Diamond so I've seen my fair share of Echo across the lower ranks.
Usually she's okay. Only once can I recall an Echo controlling the game and playing as a strong flanker on Shambali Monastary.
I think she underperforms due to unique projectiles, deceptively average cooldowns (I often see echo's die not having cooldowns to escape), high relevance of hitscan being played (Bastion, Ashe, Soldier, new sombra)
I think maybe the answer to Bastion is reducing how much healing he gets in his turret form i think keeping him up would be alot harder and close the large window that healers in any game will always create for high damage high health dps.
Getting rid of his passive would be a simpler way to effectively do the same thing.
You always underrate Ana...
I started this game a few months ago and I’m plat I feel like I’ve made so much progress and have extremely good knowledge of the game
That reaper onetrick has to be JACKO
dont let this man cook again 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Regarding Pharah on console: She's actually a lot harder to get value on with when playing using a controller, because you can't make the quick mouse movements (think concussive blast+180 turn) you need for getting full value out of her mobility. Add on the fact that a lot of the consoles are plagued with mouse-and-keyboard users right now, plus the fact that hitscan dps only needs to get "close enough" thanks to aim assist? Pharah has always had it rougher on console than on PC tbh.
23:09 NICE ONE EDITOR LMAO
can't wait for the "fixing karqs tier lists" 😂😂
Apply >>>> KarQ no diff.
I don't know if anyone has asked this yet but do you think Roadhog's new rework bumps him up or down a tier? It seems pretty good to me.
You cannot keep excusing Anas OP abilities calling them a 'skill shot' when she is the most played hero in the game. High skill floor and ceiling heros tend to have LOWER pick rates and do not give the immediate value Ana just whipping out Antinade has.
ALSO, while trying to argue that lamp and suzu are worse for the game and that antinade is needed because of the high healing. These are both, IMHO, bad arguments.
Lamp and suzu were both added post-Ana and are literally direct counters to anti-nade. Lamp allows characters to not die when antied, and suzu is the only main cleanse in the game. These abilites are needed if Anti-healing is something in the game without more cleanse choices, and perhaps if anti-healing was more common that would be the case. But it is not.
You cannot get rid or massively nerf these abilities and Keep antinade. that is inherently a buff for Ana.
Anti-nade JUSTIFIES the high healing, and because it is the ONLY counter to it, it both much too strong against it, giving the strongest non-ult ability even more value, but it allows them to excuse OP healing numbers by saying 'just pick ana'
Also lets be real, Anti is way easier to use in 5v5 and requires WAY LESS situational choices in use.
With the support passive you almost never need to use it on yourself of the other healer, and theres one less tank. You essentially have 3 less targets to heal. Add onto that the fact base healing has gotten pumped so much it is almost always a worse choice to use Anti-nade for healing your own team. You no longer need to make a judgement call. Just whip it at the enemy tank.
And because theres only one tank and less shields, the anti-nade it landing way more frequently and you cannot rotate out with your other tank.
Until you can be honest that your favourite pet hero is an issue for the game, i will continue not to take your opinions with the least weight physically possible. IDK what it would take but its frustrating to see a smart guy unable to see an issue just cause its his favourite character who is the main problem.
You just put out your video on whether support is overpowered, where you talk about Kiri and Baps abilites being OP despite them being some of the only real and specific counters for antinade.
5:37 talking about how baptise doesnt have a great lower win rate because its hard to pull of, but deserves to be nerfed.
6:52 Ana doesnt deserve much nerfs cause its a 'skill reliant' ... despite Ana being THE SINGLE MOST PLAYED HERO OF ANY CLASS, AND HAVING A BETTER WIN RATE THAN BAP AT LOWER RANKS.
Like.... how dont you see the hypocrisy there????
Saying it doesnt matter if lower skills cant do a strong move thats difficult for lower skill players to do is bad because its oppressive, but later excusing Ana's strong moves cause they are a 'skill shot' genuinely makes me do a double take. Its hypocritical as all hell.
I mean, part of the reason she's played a lot is that there's so few support heroes in the first place. Mathematically, it makes sense, there are a similar amount of tanks as supports but only 1 tank per side per game, while there are like 20+ dps
What headphones is KarQ using?
Hero settings for lifeweaver and illari please?
The fact that hog, Winston and ball are low in the tier list is accurate and yet I see them in 90% of my games and the players say they are OP just to go with 7 elims and 14 deaths and blame the rest of the team for either no healing or no damage (Diamond 1 rank btw).
Feel free to comment your thoughts and opinions
My games are usually ball/df in blue team (unless I'm going tank myself) and orisa/zarya in red
I have noticed a recent uptick of Hog being played, but usually it’s more so Doomfist with the occasional ball
anyone know the name of the background song? at 36:24
Small data context. New characters, and reworks, usually will have a lower winrate in the higher ranks, this is due to being much common to get hard punished by good players when you are starting to play a new character, this holds true in other games too. Sombra might be better in lower ranks anyways tho but this is usually the case
This also happened with lw, at least in overbuff, rn his winrate is pretty stable across all elos, including master/gm
I know that the game is completly different at the top level but it seems arbitrary to me to make the cut that drastic, i think bronze - diamond and masters - top 500 makes more sense
the thing is the game sense/skill difference really is that drastic. hell, if you talk to/watch people who chill in top500/gm1 every season, they'll let you know that even gm4-5 is not really on the same level as gm3 and above since their level is when you start seeing pro players. karq has said similar himself before on stream which makes sense since he's regularly in top500/gm1
@@realtalk13 but is that discrepancy between gm5 to top 500 really bigger than bronze to gm5? Maybe the tier list should have 3 seperations then or something?
Bronze - diamond is too different.
It better to make tierlist not including bronze and low silver at all.
That guys just as gm1+T500 are on the other level no one will understand their lists.
Guess for them Moira will be like S tier goddess forever cause she need no aim and all the hitscan bro's would be C and lower tiers. Except from Bastion ofc.
They actually don't need tierlist every season. That changes blizz make to heroes aren't really changing balance for that guys.
That left one tierlist by KarQ is pretty solid for all the guys gold to masters. There might be some lil micro shifts for some heroes for different ranks but not very hard ones.
But Ana, he should've placed her higher. Her nade is still super powerful and her sleep dart is still almost auto kill of any squishy hero
@@d00mnoodle62 eh, most people get that tier lists don't really mean much in gold and below because players at those ranks don't have enough game sense or skill for this to really make a difference. anything can work in those ranks. it's only when people start figuring out coordination and start having stable mechanical skill that the actual strength of a character's kit starts mattering and that doesn't start showing up consistently until plat. so i'd say just take the tier list as already cutting those ranks out, which means it's really broken down into plat-masters and gm/top 500.
i agree. 99.99% of players vs 0.01% is just absurd and the fact that the devs do pay attention to that and base decisions off the 0.01% is just so stupid lol. i dont care how many hours the top500 spend in the game, pay more attention to the 99.99% of players in your game....
mans forgor to edit out the first take of the tracer part unlucky
23:10 They in fact, did not cut that part out :
Would live to see a separate console list. Heroes like Pharah are way better, whereas Sojourn etc are worse.
karq always has based takes till you get to the supports.. c'mon, kiri in B TIER. ana should be A+ at least, especially since we know how strong healing is right now and she's the only character with an ability (that's not an ult) that negates healing..
Maybe i overvalue Sigma but from my journey from gold to high diamond he's like the ol reliable pick whenever you're being counted.
He's the only tank you can end a game with like 20-30k mit AND tons of damage. (Other than maybe rein if you're a rein god)
Take Necros’ word for it when he says Genji is D or below tier. Genji is absolutely horrendous to play right now
Genji is weird, He's i assume suppose to be the jack of all trades for flankers, So i think genji always suffers from the issue of never being the best pick when it comes to flanking and because of that other flankers have an edge in a matchup where genji doesn't.
But that's just me i could completely wrong
When he said Genji is B I went straight to the comments and prob wont watch the rest lol. Gen was already struggling around LW release and Illari has just made him strictly worse than other heroes despite needing to be played perfect to get any value. Heal and survivability creep coupled with his low damage, high mobility playstyle have made him just feel terrible. Unable to kill without exhausted support cooldowns, but cant get those cd's himself without dying for it. I've been a Cass main for a while and I had to climb back up to masters after giving up on my boi, may he rest in peace.
why would I take a Genji main's word for Genji balance? In any case, I don't know what rank you guys are but I see a ton of genjis in my masters games. Unless you guys are all top 500s you should be able to make him work
Supports are really strong genji isn’t necessarily a bad character. Stop downplaying him
According to Overbuff. Genji has the third highest winrate of damage heroes in Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Masters and Grandmasters and the fourth highest winrate in diamond. Genji also has the second highest pickrate of damage heroes in Platinum and above and the second highest pickrate over all ranks combined of damage heroes.
Genji is currently performing very well statistically across all ranks.
What is more likely? The combined statistics of tens of thousands of games is wrong? Or a Genji main has a skewed perspective of their heroes balance?
Maybe it’s just me but I keep getting doom players who won’t switch when they’re being hard countered. Being demoted twice cause every doom I get is stubborn and won’t switch even when asked nicely. One doom player actually said it was their first time using doom.. in comp..
😢
Personally I'm hoping for some universal number decreases, there's too much damage on certain heroes that make Supports and especially Tank players lives a misery.
And also lower some of the healing numbers so certain comps aren't crazy sustainable. Tanks can be bullet sponges while not being completely oppressive like Orisa and Zarya atm.
It'll take a lot of tweaking so might be better to slow the game down a bit and help redfine the roles before the new Tank comes in to shake everything up.
Ironically it’s the support damage that is causing this. they don’t need to have that much power. I’m a support main and it’s insane that I can use Bap or Illari as a pseudo dps and get more damage and picks than the dps on my team.
I think supports should be allowed to get the damage if its not easy, take kiri for example: people complain because she can two tap you but actually the times that happen in game are really low, specially if they lower healing kiriko will need to spend longer times healing. The real problem is that Illari and bap can heal while doing crazy amounts of damage, thats the broken part. The only nerfs to damage should go to illari and bap, kiri and ana just need a nerf to their utility.
Supports are living in misery? In what world? They are literally the strongest role in the game lmao
@@trigotauro3631i play in masters lobbies and kiri is just as dominant as bap and illari the only thing that holds her back from them is she’s not hitscan but if a kiri can aim she can easily have the most kills and have great healing on top of it plus just the existence of suzu and tp alone makes her a great duelist i mean come on 145 hs dmg? why is a single kunai from kiri doing more dmg than a NANO BLADE swing
@@nonipplenoah6179 it's 112 hs dmg pretty sure. Also, I don't ever see Kiri's have the most kills.
they did not cut that part out
Not seeing dva in A+ is quiet ka shocker for me in gm games, she is undestroyable when in hand in dva one trick players
As a reaper main, I feel like he sucks rn. I have the tier 3 name card for reaper
Am i the only one in the nerf soldier crowd? His versatility is so good in all situations and he is my crutch pick that i hate playing but switching to him makes everything so much easier. He has almost no weak points and for a jack of all trades, easy to pick up dps he just provides way to much value. I also hate the interaction between him and ashe. If ashe doesnt hit a headshot on his fast strafe speed, he auto wins that fight.
He's decent but not really OP.
Yoo Antartica is beautiful, fr eff the current look. Make me want to throw lol
Also the sombra ult damage 5% reduction is noooothing!
I'm not sure how to feel as a Diamond Pharah main
Season 8 tier list when?
Putting moira in C is brave my friend. Imma find you 😂
Tracer: B in low ranks cause of skill ceiling.
Doomfist: A in low ranks, cause skill ceiling while having to play every single game vs Orisa, Sombra and Ana is not that big of a deal.
Ana: A in low ranks, that's why she has 95% pickrate. If she was S+ she would have 100% pickrate.
Can smell the bias from here.
A bit. He puts ana too low, but Doomfist is in the right place. I see him so often that it can no longer be chalked up to it being onetricks
Doomfist is appearing in almost every of my games, and he's doing fine. I preferred him over Roadhog and Hammond actually, I even prefer him over a shieldbot Reinhard.
I died a little bit inside when my tank is a one-trick hammond, the fker can't even stay in the fight for long before he yolo off somewhere. With Doomfist, you can stay in the fight for longer due to having more movement momentum, doesn't rely as much on terrain, and he has more methods of mobility.
Road is just road, ana is everywhere. It's 90% a loss if the enemy tank has a braincell.
side note: doom has a better match up against metal rank orisa because he can bypass her and target the squishy, same reason why you go winston vs orisa (the winston era before the bastion meta). I tested out multiple tanks, and it's the frontline tank who got hit the hardest against orisa, in particular, Reinhardt, Rammatra, Roadhog.
@@wandregisel6385 Problem is not popularity. I did not say he is weak, he's in fact stronger than ever. It's just that he's so so easy to counter. If you don't want a mobility tank to play the game, you can deny him in a few swaps. Specially in low ranks cause his worst counters Karq put 'em on A+. There is ALWAYS and Ana, and the Orisa, Sombra, Cass swap comes after 1 or 2 lost fights. I'm a diamond df main with over 600h and i can guarantee you that 90% of my games feature these 3 heroes, the exception is Ana is not a counter pick, she's always there since the beggining
@@43Devin90Volkerz Problem is Orisa is the least of your problems. The issue is Sombra cancelling your character as a whole with a single autoaimed click, or you having to virtually play perfectly triple headshotting someone while X support couple (95% Ana) just have to hold click to each other. DF is strong right now, he doesn't need any buffs, it's just he's 10 times harder to get value vs how easy he is to counter.
Idk how it is for other players but mercy’s that are on my team have like every bad adhd like ill get beam as a ash player for maybe few seconds every like 1 min in a half. While ill see mercy on other teams get like hard pocketed for ever it seems. And its not like im playing badly upper teens in kills and 5ish and less deaths
the rat disrespect is just absolutely insane
cartifan22 is a real man of culture
Reading all the comments i realized no one has any idea in how to balance this game, neither do i, i think a game with 30+ characters it's impossible to anyone to play all of them (consistently and well), everyone has such biased takes, even me and all content creators. I will stick with playing with my friends and having fun.
Well the goal isnt to balance all characters, heroes like bastion junkrat moira sombra should never be more than super niche, or completely reworked to give them all a higher skill floor and a good skill ceilling... i think its possible blizzard just tries too hard to appease both the casual and competetive fanbase at the same time, and its a lot of work
Bro rien should be that tier for bronze and silver but once people start to learn how to counter him and you teammates not knowing how to play with him makes him awful to play
this might be the best tier list ive seen so far for this season, only point i disagree with is kiriko i think shes insanely flexible at her role and should be ranked higher
The problem is unless you actually put the hours in and learn her better, even in top 500, she has some of the worst winrates in the entire game
@@Neptune1009people do not realize how good you need to be with this character to actually carry they just blindly whine
@@mohammadalhusaini810 You can literally go check the Top 500 stats in game and see that most players have negative winrates with Kiriko. If Top 500 players struggle to win games, then maybe your complaints are just that and the hero is actually okay where they are
@@Neptune1009 bruv i agree with you, i am saying unless you are good with kiriko she kinda sucks, only people that can carry with her are people who have mastered her and gotten used to her shitty bugs
karq always has the best tier lists tbh imo
My only issue with the genji placement is the logic that puts Pharah below him
"Pharah needs mercy so without mercy she's B"
okay... makes sense. She relies on this other hero to get real value.
"Genji you can nanoblade and do alot of work with it B+"
... wait... doesn't that imply my ult isn't an ult unless i have an ana???
and since they've never changed his damage? he needs triple headshot > dash to kill.
Or 2 headshots, 1 bodyshot > dash > melee to kill a 200 hp hero that gets no help....
so he's still a blade bot in anything except dive comps....
and the 2 best supports accidentally counter his ult with abilities/healing lol
Where is this the parity?
imma keep using rein🗿
The genji take is certainly a spicy one. Genji is a throw pick rn
I Insta-swap to sym, mei and Moira when I see a genji I hate them so much 😅
Facts. KarQ's chinese boy Ana brain can't handle the facts.
The editor did not infact, cut that Tracer part out.
I miss ramattra brawl
they need to nerf healing in this game by like 30%-50% depending on the hero and their abilities.
Nah KarQ)
Your tierlist's are good. Really, they're closest to real game situation than other OW content makers.
Still. Really ? Ana isnt suprr strong? For both T500 And others?
Lets just say - you may say "I dont think shes that problematic" then you place her in A only for T500. We lesser guys may not understand that. But for gods sake in other leagues shes still super powerful
There's still anti nade which is countered by only few things in this whole game. Suzu is one of them and the best(still cant deal with every nade cause cd isnt the same though).
And theres still sleep which is almost always = autokill for squishy characters and is counter for some ultimates as well.
Ana bias at its peak basically. Ana should be A+ tier rn. Same for Kiriko.
Next time you do this, please turn the music either down or off. Thank you lol
Somone gives reaper love finally
Tracer and genji right now are miserable. There's just so much healing and the supports just delete you, it's annoying
Number 1 Glizzard glazer
you said you see reaper rarely, ITS BECAUSE HIS SOO SITUASIONAL. as a reaper onetrick his currently merely a tank buster, and often gets counterpicked. his not weak, however he has extreme weaknesses, therefore his bad
They should bring Zen back to having 225 HP. Since Discord got nerfed and Illari is powercreeping the hell out of him, he needs some help badly.
They shouldn't do that. Just nerf the other supports, which they're already doing.
bap takes way more mechanical skill then illari, if they are similarly broken for top gm then he really shouldn’t be better then illari on another list
Dude!!!! Zarya is S tier in low elos. I can’t tell you how many games I’ve played where the enemy team is getting steamed rolled and they go zarya and just absolutely flip the game around. And if she has a mercy pocket nobody wants to go near that duo because it usually means getting cooked by zarya in attempt to try since in low elo mercy will heal pocket behind a wall
Genji feels useless outside of dive comps, and I don't feel like dive is very good right now so I'd place him lower.
Genji B is crazy💀
Zenyatta becoming below average because he doesnt compare to damage with other supports just shows that they really dropped the ball on balancing how supports do damage