Explaining the Most Holy Trinity to Muslims
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
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there is a metaphor often cited for children: imagine 3 candle rods tilted on each other at the top and so glowing a single flame. the flame is the essence, the candle rods are the divine persons.
In Arabic, Christians say in the beginning of speechs بسم الاب والابن والروح القدس الاله الواحد، in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit, the one god.
I gotta say your Arabic writing is spot on! (Coming from an Egyptian)
Oh thank you! I was worried that a small mistake on a letter would turn it into 'lettuce' :-)
@@BanterWithBojan 😂😂😂😂😂 you're perfect dude
4:19
It's very close to how we translate that in English. We say "the father son, and the holy spirit, the trinity, one in being and undivided."
I've always had friendly relationships with Muslims, in fact my best friend is a Muslim, so having this conversation has never been contentious for me. I suppose maybe I should be more contentious since this is foundational for Orthodox Christians, but I guess I just don't have it in me to be that way. I find that giving a good account of what we believe and leaving it at that is best, but as I said, I have a funny disposition for an Orthodox. I do always value the opportunity to discuss this aspect of our theology, I see it as an opportunity to clarify misconceptions about us. When this question comes up I always try and explain it in terms of the mystical Unity of God. God The Father, Creator of the Universe, isn't hard to explain. The Holy Spirit is also an easy one to explain, and ironically enough, Jesus is referenced in the Quran as the Spirit of God. The Son of God is the hard part for Muslims. I just say that The Son is unified with the Father and Spirit and that unity represents One God. We in Orthodoxy say what God is, in this respect, while Islam does not. Because God is love, I also always say that since I have love in my heart for my friends, that God is with us. I don't know... I'm not a theologian and I'm such a sinner, I always hope mercy prevails among us all.
kbone91
My view is that, while we Orthodox worship the TRULY Omnipotent, that is, God Can Will ANYTHING, Islam worships the merely Plenipotent, that is, they perceive a “god” that CANNOT do at least ONE thing. It means ALMOST all powerful, but NOT QUITE. To a Muslim, what they believe to be Abraham’s God is a being who could juggle the stars with a chainsaw while riding a unicycle with a wheel shaped like a square and a circle simultaneously, yet, he literally, absolutely and for all time HAS never begotten, can NEVER beget, and never will beget, ANYONE.
Now, if we were to take seriously the supposition that we and Muslims are worshiping “the same god” but from a mistaken axiom, I think this one could not be one of them. We can use that argument for the Jews, but not Muslims. Jews know that God can do Anything, they just aren’t convinced that He did THAT, and I’ve observed that they prefer to avoid thinking about it rather than say something so bold as “God could NOT have”, or stir doubts of their skepticism of Jesus as The Messiah by more practically saying “he COULD have, but did not”. They go out of their way to change the subject.
No, there is no “could not” with the True God, only “Did, or Did not”. Mohamed BLATANTLY said that what he claims to be “God” is INCAPABLE of having a son, subtextually implying that this is the one thing he CANNOT do, ever, maybe even if he wanted to.
If we cannot even agree that The God of Abraham is TRULY Omnipotent, what is there left to say? We are NOT worshipping the same Being.
@@eldermillennial8330 Hi there,
I see your point, and think it's fair to criticize the Muslim view of an all powerful God who can do everything, except beget a Son. But I still think they are just simply mistaken. Also, just to be clear, Muslims believe, and even say Jesus is the Messiah, that's really not the issue. The issue is His being the Son of God, and unified with The Spirit and The Father. And its important to also point out their mistaken view of the crucifixion. However, I truly don't quite see the merit of arguing about what they believe when I still have so much to learn and grow in my faith. Last Sunday's Gospel reading sums up for me, how I should proceed. If I want mercy from God, I should show mercy to others.
@@eldermillennial8330 muslims dont believe god is unable to beget a son just that he never did it
Quran calls Jesus the word of god and a spirit proceeding from him.
In arabic, it’s clear he’s the word of God. But translations and Muslims twist it to say he was created by the word
@@chillermiller3565 no, Muslims frequently ask, if there is a son then there should be a mother, did God have sex etc.
I lived in a Muslim country for many years and the people that I met had no trouble with how I explained my beliefs and that we have more that's similar than different and if people would just open their eyes and realize that they would be a whole lot less war!
The child by the seaside
The story goes as follows:
While Augustine was working on his book On the Trinity, he was walking by the seaside one day, meditating on the difficult problem of how God could be three Persons at once. He came upon a little child. The child had dug a little hole in the sand, and with a small spoon or seashell was scooping water from the sea into the small hole. Augustine watched him for a while and finally asked the child what he was doing. The child answered that he would scoop all the water from the sea and pour it into the little hole in the sand. ‘What?’ Augustine said. ‘That is impossible. Obviously, the sea is too large and the hole too small.’ ‘Indeed,’ said the child, ‘but I will sooner draw all the water from the sea and empty it into this hole than you will succeed in penetrating the mystery of the Holy Trinity with your limited understanding.’ Augustine turned away in amazement and when he looked back the child had disappeared.
Happy transfiguration day everyone!
That was on the 6th...
@@_____c___482
Only for the churches following the new calendar.
Today is Transfiguration for those following the old calendar
Beognis 94 oh, ok. But why exactly would you follow the old calendar tho
@@_____c___482
I could ask you the same. Why do you follow a roman catholic calendar?
Why did you switch?
I guess some churches didn't see spiritual reasons to switch. It was mostly politics.
Bojan made a video about this topic.
m.ruclips.net/video/74MQ91onkNQ/видео.html
Beognis 94 because that’s the calendar that 99% of the world uses right now... it’s just a number
At 7:15 I think you’re looking for the word “begotten,” unless I misunderstood your intent.
Many many Muslims have not read the Quran. I have a good translation because I wanted to understand but a lot of them can't afford that. It's taught by singing because singing is a better way to retain information just like the ABCs alphabet song.
When one person is glorified, the others are glorified equally because they all share in God-ness. One way I heard it described is like this:
"What are you?" God
"Who are you?" Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The One Love in Mutuality is a perfect revelation. Thank you, Bojan.
Some people spend half of their life trying to understand the Holy Trinity and they are Christians. Before I found Orthodox e I could not understand the Most Holy Trinity and I have very Advanced degrees so I'm not stupid I just didn't get it once I did get it I was full of joy!
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, Who was and Is and Is to come...One God. Ave Maria!
very nice explanation. In the past I also believed that islam is a abrahamic religion, but after reading some books on the topic, especialy Tom Holland - Shadow of the Sword - i am now 95% sure it is practical paganism using abrahams cloths to have better state centered controll over it's citizens.
The Church Fathers of the 7th and 8th centuries who experienced the rise of Islam first hand didn’t consider it to be a unique religion either. Generally speaking they considered it to be an extremist Christian heresy. St. John of Damascus actually included his rebuttal of Islam in his work entitled “Concerning Heresy”.
Yay new video :))
A man can be a father, a husband, and a son, and still be one person.
When the man die as the Father, at the same time he will also die as a Husband and Son. In the case of Trinity, when Jesus died on the cross, does The Father and Holly Spirit also die on the cross??
THAT'S MODALISM, PATRICK!!!
THAT'S MODALISM, PATRICK!!!
but God is THREE persons, not One Person doing different things, that's modalism
@@catetc I mean this is a weird question because it's flesh that dies God can not die.
Your Arabic handwriting is beautiful!
You could also mention that the Quran doesn’t get the concept of the Holy Trinity right at all.
My favorite analogy to explain the Trinity is way back from Sunday School....water, ice, and steam....three forms of one identical, singular thing = H2O.
I think there's no perfect analogy to describe God's mystery, we could only know the tip of the iceberg. But my favourite is the body (The God), mind (The Word/ Wisdom of God), and soul (Spirit of God). With using this analogy one could explain how The Word was begetted but not created, the same way how we think with our mind before we speak it out of our mouth, the one to dictates who we are.
@DrummerlovesBookworm That sounds like modalism.
modalism
that sounds a bit like modalism Patrick
@@hottboy6712Come ooooon Paatrick 😂
Can you do a video talking about jewelry. There isn't a dearth of information on the topic online, as well, i'm currently working as a Jeweler and would rather get out of the profession early on (its only been a couple of months) before I get stuck in a career that doesn't work out right. My main concern also follows along the lines of how St. Basil goes about talking about Christ's command to the Young rich man to be made perfect he should go and sell all of his possessions. As Basil describes it, there aren't many exceptions to this command. He says one garment of clothing is enough as well as one pair of shoes, and he goes on to criticize the rich for having jeweled things because "what benefit do they have over their simpler counterparts". It should also be mentioned that he does specify that in everything that he is saying applies to everyone for "did you ask the lord to give you children so that you may disobey his commandments?" he's talking to everyone and having really any jewelry feels kind of against this.
So just like in Christianity, Muslims believe the word is divine.
“The Trinity is 3 gods”
“Oh, Patrick… “
Not a great explanation, not trying to be mean. You should direct them to two works: Athanasius' Defence of Nicea, and Gregory's 5 Theological Orations. In both, if you read them carefully, its pretty clear that the STARTING assumption is that all person's of the Trinity are one essence (ousia). Essence doesn't mean "nature," which two of the same species can share, but "being in itself," or "primary being." In Aristotle it means a "this," an "individual thing." Both these Fathers use the terminology as Greek Philosophers did, and so their starting point is that the Trinity is ONE being, one ENTITY, one OUSIA. The mystery is how one being can have three persons, but Gregory clearly says that no one can ever know what this means, what the persons are in themselves, and what their relations amount to. So the starting point of Christianity is that God is ONE BEING, one OUSIA, and Muslims can't object to that. They might think it's not possible to have three persons in one being, but that's a different conversation, and they're gonna need a LOT of proof.
Well, I would direct them to 5 Theological Orations and Defence of Nicea if I had read them. However, I don't think that the Muslim in question would be much willing to read works of 5th century Christian theologians based of works of a pre-Christian philosopher.
@@BanterWithBojan I get that, didn't mean to come off mean, just critical. These topics are really difficult and confusing, but after I've been working on reading some of the writings contemporary to Nicea and Chalcedon, it became clear to me that I had just been taught poorly, and it's easier to defend than I used to think. I can't blame most people who taught me because they hadn't been taught well either. When you start from the point of one ousia and understand what it means, all the worries of the Muslim you bring up are completely bypassed, that's all. I'd really encourage you to read the Theological Orations! Love your vids.
But the starting point of explaining the most holy Trinty in Orthodoxy isn't ousia, it is the person of the Father. This is the Ordo Theologae
@@postmodpen1169 We're not using the word starting point in the same way. I'm talking about in terms of theory: the first and primary doctrine to defend is the oneness of God, and to make the divinity of Christ and HS fit with that. The Muslim then has no possible way of accusing us of polytheism. They can say that the Trinity doesn't make sense, but not that the Trinity breaks into three gods. Precisely because the Father's start from the presumption that God is ONE thing. Ousia is just a common philosophical term denoting "primary being," or "thing which is a THIS and a thing in and of itself." By saying the Trinity involves one ousia, the Fathers are preempting any accusation. There are also orders of knowledge, orders of truth, etc.
I’ve always enjoyed using maths:
1^3 = 1
Yup!
@@BanterWithBojan no.
because
and = +
or = *
so in this case its the father(1) or(*) the son(1) or(*) the holly spirt(1) = 1
thats sound like a modalism
and trinity say the father(1) and(+) the son(1) and(+) the holly spirt(1) = 1
(im muslim btw)
One to the power of three. It's good.
Hey, Bible Illustrated, what do you think about any specific Catholic Cardinals? Both good and bad in your eyes?
Man, Bojan, I almost threw my phone at that statement. “Christians and Muslims worship the same God.” Lol
LOL Trolly trolly
They do and they don't. We both worship the God revealed in the Old Testament. However, the Muslim conception of Allah is very different, in so many ways, than the true conception of Christianity.
@@caedmonnoeske3931 If they don’t worship Jesus, they don’t worship God. Period. “In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” There is no excess divinity somewhere else in the universe that is not fully present in Christ.
I... nearly choked (I was eating something at the time)
Isa 44:6 NKJV is understood using the "Us" in Ezek 44:6 NKJV and John 14:16 NKJV.
Sorry for my meme name lol. Thanks for answering my question Bojan! While the anecdote about the Quran is interesting, my friend is a Shia Muslim so I’m not sure it directly applies. Thank you though
Shias are always easy to converse to, ever heard of Ismaeli Gnosis? It took a pretty weird stance on the whole Divine Intellect and equating it to The Same meaning of the Logos that was used to give a description to Jesus. But still, they're cool to talk to
@@mrvaas876 I’m Shia and yeah talking to many Sunnis is like talking to fundamentalist Baptist’s and evangelicals. The salafi Sunnis throw the same crazy misunderstandings at Shias that Baptist’s throw at Orthodox and Catholic.
John 14:23
Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
You nearly shocked me with that fake out lol
What do you think of using the analogy of the compound of water(H2O). H2O consists of two hydrogen molecules plus one oxygen molecule but yet still remain one.
Tbh, using the three states of water would be better, same in essence but in different forms. But God does not transform from one to another, like the Holy Spirit won’t transform into the Son, and the Son won’t transform into the Father.
its modalism so dont use it to represent trinity
well, seeing as there's already a Dominican here, might as well bring up what my Dominican professors told me.
they usually start with the Aristotelian idea that all things have a main defining trait, or essence, as well as other non-defining traits, or accidents- wait, this'll be too long if i go on like this.
think of a table. imagine what its made of, how many legs it has, and so on. these are the table's accidents: the table can still be a table even if it loses a leg or is made out of sheet metal. but that table also has a "quality" that makes it a table. though that quality is unknowable, its results are clear in our world: because of that secret quality, that table is a table. this quality of table-ness is called the essence, because it is... essential for a thing to be a thing.
sounds like a semantic massacre, but bear with me.
God has three Persons, right? but God clearly is one, well, God. here, Aquinas concludes that this is the case because God has three Persons as his accidental qualities, but has a single essence of being God.
does that mean that all three of them are gods? no. Aquinas basically dismissed any possibility of polytheism in Christianity when he posited that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. can God have power over another omnipotent being, or know the thoughts of another omniscient being? of course not.
i can also talk about the indivisibility of the Persons and whatever, but i've already written for far too long. there's a reason why this thing takes a whole semester to discuss.
I think its best to first imply that Trinity is not about how many God there is, but instead how The God is. We could even reverse the "polytheist accusation" by saying that seperating The Word/LOGOS from The God means that muslims are acknowledging that there are other "gods" which shares the same power and exist eternally with The God himself (in their case, Allah), a god they don't and reject to worship. Of course this is quite harsh and nobody wants to lose a friend just because of one sentence lmao.
Excuse me Bojan, I had a question. Is imagination and/or creativity a sin?
Why would it be?
BlockyBookworm I just read some orthodox people debating about it one time, so I was curious of Bojans opinion.
@@Ibrahim-jf5nm Ah. Well, I only have 33 pages left of the Bible, and I haven't come across anything like that.
That depends, for example if you imaging a creative way to kill someone then yes it's a sin, but if you're imaging a creative way to write hymns then no
God gave us imagination and creativity. God Himself is creative. No, it's definitely not a sin inherently.
Now, if you're using it in the wrong kind of way, that use of creativity or imagination would be sinful.
as a protestant I always likened it to bilocation or spooky action at a distance, or even some sort of Science fiction. My God can be in two or three or all places at once.
Then I learned about, hypostasis. (SpongeBob rainbow hands for the word that means I was right, and wrong, and none of us puny humans blinded by sin can *really* ever know.)
Excellent
Happy new hijri year!
What’s a hijiri?
@@putodango It is the muslim calendar, counting to the Hijra of Muhammad, his migration from Mecca to Medina.
Where are my fellow ex-Muslim Orthodox inquirers/catechumans/newly illumined at?? I'm most probably not the only one since this question was asked but the comments don't seem to include any? Maybe I should scroll further down?
I lived in a Muslim country of Morocco and I told everybody we worship the same God and we all agreed! We do worship the same God Allah is simply an Arabic word for God like the French word for God or the German word for God. We have more similarities than differences and if people realize that it wouldn't be so much War! There are radicals in every religion including Christians who went and killed abortion doctors who were gynecologist.
Maryam gave birth to the Uncreated Word of Allah. Whom will you choose: the Uncreated Qur'an or the Uncreated Masih/Christ?
God of universe is a divine ocean of eternal love ✌🏼
Bible illustrated is a lefty??? I'm a lefty too :)
You have your arms, your head, and your, legs, how are you not 3 people?
christianity is polytheistic as long as you mean "gods" with a lower case "g"
what else would angels, demons, satans, etc. be but minor gods in almost the same sense meant by ancient pagans worshiping the spirit of the forest, now we understand it's the angel of the forest
@NBK Electro Thanos Right they aren't worshipped, but they are recognized. And the ones which are angels we worship with. Also I view the distinction between angels and "gods" as just splitting hairs. afaik theism is defined as just belief in the existence of a supernatural being that doesn't have to be omnipotent, or any other omni, or even eternal which angels do qualify for. I will admit putting Christianity into the category of monotheism or polytheism is pedantic though. I'm splitting hairs too
mmmm no. we dont mean that. Divinity must be uncreated and eternal, angels are creations
A very important video, though I don't agree with all of it!
Lel
How many Muslim people have you questioned about their beliefs? I have questioned more than a thousand and the answers I get are much nicer than what you're portraying. It was also easier for me to marry a Muslim man as a Christian then as a Muslim woman because the paperwork took a lot longer.
@@yaakov5877 I have a beautiful Quran that was given to me in Morocco and I have read it many times. I know exactly what it says but I also know how the people I engaged with acted and behaved.
Why trinity *? Why not quadnity
what do you mean
Who's the 4th person?
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
:27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
:20 But while Joseph thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, you son of David, fear not to take unto you mary your wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Look, I see four men loose, walking in the middle of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Jesus said in John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
& John 14:11 Believe Me that I Am in the Father, and the Father in Me: or else believe Me for the very works' sake.
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why had Satan filled your heart to "lie" to the "Holy Ghost," and to keep back part of the price of the land?
:4 Whiles it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why had you planned this thing in thine heart? You had not "lied" unto men, but unto "God."
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.
2 John 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify of Me.
Jesus said in John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and known surely that "I came out from you," and they have believed that you did sent me.
2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raises the dead:
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead;)
Acts 13:30 But God raised Jesus from the dead:
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and will you rear it up in three days?
21 But Jesus spake of the temple of His body.
1 John 3:16 Hereby Perceived we the love of God, because he laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Romans 8:11 But if the "Spirit" of Him "that raised up Jesus from the dead" lives in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead will also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that lives in you.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Jesus, my Lord and my God.
:29 Then said Jesus to Thomas, Thomas because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
Romans 8:11 But if the "Spirit" of Him "that raised up Jesus from the dead" lives in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead will also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that lives in you.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Jesus, my Lord and my God.
:29 Then said Jesus to Thomas, Thomas because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
:4 In whom the god(Satan) of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all mankind see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify of Me.
Jesus said in John 20:22 And when he had said this, He breathed on them, and says unto them, Receive you the Holy Ghost:
1 CORINTHIANS 12:3 Therefore I give you to understand, that no mankind speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, except by the Holy Ghost.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.
John 14:15-:17 If you love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows Him: but you know Him; for He lives with you, and shall be in you.
Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God live in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, that person is none of His.
Psalm 78:41 Yes, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
89:18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
Isaiah 14:20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the Lord has done this, and the Holy One of Israel has created it.
43:15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your king.
Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not from Everlasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One? We shall not die. O Lord, you had ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, you had established them for correction.
Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at Jesus Doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
:23 And there was in there synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out.
:24 Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with you, you Jesus of Nazareth? Are you come to destroy us? I know you who are, the Holy One of God.
Luke 4:32 And they were astounded at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had the spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
:34 Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with you, are you Jesus of Nazareth? Are you come to destroy us? I know you who you are; the Holy One of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit: and having said this, He gave up the Ghost.
Jesus said in John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to you. Holy Father, keep through Your Own name those whom you have given Me, that they may be one, as We are One.
John 17:20 neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which will believe on Me through their word;
:21 That they all may be one; as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, That they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that You have sent Me.
:22 And the glory which you gave Me I have given them: that they may be one, even as We are One:
;23 I in them, and You in me, that they may be made perfect in one: and that the world may know that You had sent Me, and have love them, as you have loved Me.
But how God (The Father) got Mary pregnant, through God (The Holy Spirit) and eventually, she gave birth to God (Jesus The Messiah)? It just doesn't make any sense...
@@_____c___482 , she did give did give birth to the divine nature of Christ. That doesn't mean that the divine nature only began to exist at the moment of conception but that the Divine Nature of Christ who was begotten before all ages (eternal) lowered himself into the womb of the virgin during the conception and putting upon himself the human nature (2 natures united, neither separating nor intermingling, in one person) and being born in this world as Christ. To say that Mary didn't give birth to the Divine Nature is Nestorianism (the heresy which states that the 2 Natures were not united but separate and that Mary wasn't the Mother of God because she didn't give to the Divine Nature of Christ). God Bless.
@@_____c___482 that's nestorianism. The human nature of Jesus is not separate from His divine nature
because we are finite and the Trinity is INFINITE so we can't grasp it. The Eternal Son of the Father was Incarnate of the Immaculate and All Holy VIrgin by the Holy Spirit. why would we finite humans make sense of that?
Your saying God can't make a Body through the Holy Spirit? 🤨
Your saying God has limitations!?😳
@@James-en1ob you're claiming G-d isn't a purple balloon hovering above the clouds aimlessly? How dare you limit him that way...
Tackling from a non-Muslim position, in defense of Islam
1. Allah (God) is just as, if not more loving than the Christian God. Within the Quran and Islam, God is the most merciful, most forgiving, most compassionate. God says in the Quran that if a man with enough sins to fill the earth asked God for forgiveness, than God would forgive him
It is also inherently flawed to claim that Allah and God are two separate beings
2. The trinity is entirely flawed, and inherently pagan. The trinity comes from pagan origins. The Trimurti in Hinduism, the three chief deities in Greek and Norse mythology, and so on. The trinity is also never mentioned, not once, in the bible. And Jews call themselves the children of God, but they are not physical, literally the children of God
3. While it is true that many sunni Muslims do hold the position of the Quran being uncreated, that doesn't change anything and is partially irrelevant to the conversation. From the point of tawakull, God's plan (forgive me if that is the wrong word, my Arabic is not good), the existence of a predetermined word of God can be plausible, because God already knew that the revelation would be made and that different revelations of his would be corrupted, such as the injil and Taurah. So his word would be uncreated because it is essentially in his mind, and forgive me for not presenting well, I am not good with fully explaining stuff when not face to face. Now there is the ibadi sect of Islam which teaches the Quran is not uncreated. I more align with that sect. If the Qur'an is uncreated, it does not make it a distinct separate "person" from God, because again, it's his word so it is essentially in his "mind" if you will until it is spoken through the Gabriel
1) Again, God cannot be most merciful, most forgiving and most compassionate if there is none to whom show mercy, forgiveness and compassion. These might be God's characteristics, but the way how they are actualized was inevitably different before and after creation, meaning that God is not unchangeable. This is a heresy because God never change.
2) Zeus, Poseidon and Hades are three separate deities beside hundreds of other gods, just like in the Norse version (Odin, Thor and Frey), they are not consubstantial and undivided in essence... And it's quite questionable whether first Christians had any so strong connections to Germanic peoples that it would've had any influence on their theology. It's very similar case with Hindu "Trimurti" (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), but even if these stories were available to non-scholar and non-aristocratic folk, the Trimurti is closer to Gnosticism than Apostolic Christianity (and Gnosticism was refused as a cluster of heresies). In fact, first proto-Trinitarian ideas appeared already among Jewish sages based on their very own Scriptures even before the time of Yeshua - they did seriously believed at that time that the Messiah was divine being... later many aspects of the divine Messiah were given to "archangel Metatron" who is seen as "little Yahweh", "the angel of the Face" and so on.
Though it's true that the word "Trinity" is never mentioned in the Bible, what does that even prove? The Bible does not mention such words as omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipresent either, yet people have no problem to call God omniscient and omnipresent - because these concepts in themselves appear in the Scriptures. In similar way, the Bible is very clear that God the Father is God (naturally), Yeshua is God and Holy Spirit is God, and that there is still only one God, Yahweh. In some places the Bible states that none has ever seen God, yet there are also multiple passages where people saw God face to face. And so on. The Trinity is a term created for the needs of philosophical debates to explain all these difficult statements.
@@HomoEucharistica I'm not here to defend Islam, anymore, things change, but I will defend the fact that the trinity is a heresy created by Christians. The Torah, the holy word of God as given to Moses, clearly says in Deuteronomy 6:4 that God is one, and there are no express examples of a plurality of gods or have God being in a plurality state of being. God commands that you worship none other but him, and he never expresses a three persons or natures or whatever, but that is One, Absolute (echad) and that worshipping a man, Jesus, in his place is idol worship
@@TenguKannushi Exactly - Yahweh is *echad* (unity) instead of *yachid* (singularity). The Jewish sages already understood that this (beside the fact that the Shema refers to God three times) is direct implication of God's multiplicity in unity (whatever you call it). And it is also written that Yahweh says about himself: "Let us make", "Let us go down" and "who will go for us", even though biblical Hebrew does not know "majestic plural" forms. It is written that _"Then Ha'Shem rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire _*_from Ha'Shem out of heaven"._* The Tanakh also states that the Messiah's "coming forth is from the old, from everlasting", that the Messiah is seated at the right hand of God (which in Jewish context is mark of equality, for it is greatest honour to sit at one's right hand), and that all nations and peoples are to *worship* Him.
You can take literally any Christian claim about God and the Messiah, and you could find for them Jewish background. For some specific reason, the popularity of these teachings decreased after the birth of Apostolic Church. It was clear that the Messiah is divine, and the best explanation to this is the Trinity (which also has Jewish roots)
@@HomoEucharistica 1. I am not Jewish
2. Echad can also refer to an exact one, an absolute, so the interpretation is up for debate. However, knowing how God says there are none equal to him, context would say that it's an absolute one. And the "Let Us" can refer to angels, and the idea that it could refer to a plurality is a completely Christian concept. In my religion, the Messiah is not divine in anyway is there even isn't a tradition saying he's a priest or noble, just that he's a prophet. The tradition states that the Messiah will in no way he a son of God. Only Jews refer to themselves as Bnei Elohim. In the Torah, or as my faith refers to it, the Qushta (truth), it is seen multiple times that God commands angels to carry out his will, but none of these angels or messengers are referred to as God himself or being a part of God. And my faith does not believe in the Nevi'im or Ketuvim, only the Torah, Genesis to Deuteronomy
3. In such verses as Genesis 1:5: "And there was evening and there was morning, one day," and Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh," the term 'echad, "one," refers to a compound united one. However, 'echad often also means an absolute one. This is illustrated by such verses as 2 Samuel 13:30: "Absolom has slain all the king's sons, and there is not one of them left"; 2 Samuel 17:12: "And of all the men that are with him we will not leave so much as one"; Exodus 9:7: "There did not die of the cattle of Israel even one"; 2 Samuel 17:22: "There lacked not one of them that was not gone over the Jordan"; Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother." Clearly, the word "one" used in these verses means an absolute one and is synonymous with the word yachid, "the only one," "alone." It is in this sense, with even greater refinement, that 'echad is used in Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One." Here, 'echad is used as a single, absolute, unqualified one. There is no mention of a triune god.
And God in the Old Testament was nothing but love??
yeah
God is Love, whether in Old or New Testament, answer is 'yes'
Yes. God in the old testament wasn't wrath, he was Justice, now Before you start calling me crazy let me tell you this, ok so imagine your a king, then EVERYONE breaks almost every rules you have, what would you do?, God gave them another chance to repent, but what did they do?, NOTHING, they just KNOWINGLY keep breaking the rules
@@James-en1ob I believe exactly as you do but I was posing a question to those who do not.
@@elizabethshaw734 oh.....sorry🙇
Allah the god of Abraham is indeed love. Both Jews and Muslims have a different takes on Jesus. His name is ISA in Arabic and Abraham is Ibrahim no real difference just a different language but Muslims hi we acknowledge Jesus Christ and Jews don't tend to it all. I am not the woman anybody wants to get into a religious debate with. ;-)
How can 100% man be God?
Jesus is True God and True Man, the Son Incarnate..the Divinity and Humanity are not confused. One Person who is God and Man so Blessed Mary is Mother of God
@@gustavmahler1466 Jesus has 2 natures: Divine and Human
@@gustavmahler1466 Yeah, but His divine nature is
@@gustavmahler1466 God Son took our human nature trough his incarnation in Jesus; before that He only had his divine nature.
@اسكريم فراولة He has 2 natures; 1 divine, and 1 human. It's quite simple.
God is one person, the Father. Read the Bible
The father, the son, and the holy spirit
@@James-en1ob yeah God is the Father, and Jesus Christ the Son of God who is a different person
@@houseofsaudisthebeast they have one essence, so they are one
@@James-en1ob ive never read "one essence" in the bible
@@houseofsaudisthebeast couldn't really find any that I know of, there is however mention of the trinity in Matthew 28:18-20 along with Jesus's claim that he's God (God the son, that is)
*Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.*
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of *the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit* ,
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 28:18-20
Assalamualaiqum ..
ALLAH is only god and Muhammad (s) is the last prophet and Servant
accept this for your Welfare .....
ISLAM is the only religion to God (Allah).
Muhammad is not in the Bible and he wasnt a christian so therefore he's not a real prophet
@@thelonelysponge5029 Please brother realize the truth ,
in old TESTAMINT,
Book of Isalah ch.29 v.12
Book of Deuteronomy ch.18 v.19
Book of Deuteronomy ch.18 v.18
And most important one
Holy bible: song of solomon ch.5 v.16
in NEW TESTAMINT, Gospel of Join ch.14 v.16
Gospel of Join ch.15 v.26
Gospel of Join ch.16 v.7
Gospel of Join ch.16 v.12-14
Please brother realize the truth , and accept islam.
ISLAM is the only religion to God (Allah).
@@wayskurunikhan2209 actually Christianity is the only true religion of God, while Islam is no more than a developed version of Nestorianism
Allah is *the Best of deceivers* one of Satan's title is *the deceiver* , as you can see Muslims worship Satan.
I hope you like hot weather; because if you don't stop worshiping Satan - you'll have hot weather all year.
actually the true translation of the shahada is
there is no god but the only one true God (ALLAH or any translation of the word one true God )
and mohammed is the messenger of allah
and the meaning of God in this sentence is one who deserve to be worshipped
so you can say there is no one deserve to be worshipped but allah
this what magority of christians misunderstood abt tawheed