A priest once described the veneration of icons this way: If a little kid runs up to his mother with a drawing of her and says "look mommy! it's you! *mwah*" and kisses it. The child is not trying to show love for paper and crayons. This is a very genuine way of expressing love for the mother.
That’s essentially what my priest told me. I was told icons are not meant to be realistic. They are meant to go beyond the external physical dimension to the spiritual reality of the person. In some ways this can be the opposite in statues, but others may have different views.
Some icons are in fact quite realistic and were painted in a purely Western style. Icons in Ortho. churches built in the Austrian or AU Empire tend to be very realistic and yet are no less venerated than those of the Byzantine style.
Another example are the icons in the Saborni Hram in Belgrade, Serbia. Those icons were painted in the Western style at a time when Belgrade was the capital of the Kingdom of Serbia. In that instance, the Austrian esthetic was employed even beyond Hapsburg lands.
You can get some ordered offline for your home, if you can’t find an Orthodox Church nearby. Legacy Icons have some beautiful icons, I recommend getting icons of Jesus called Pantocrator, and Mary with a baby Jesus, these are the main ones. Also, some pre schism saints are present in icons, like Saint Nicolas
I have always thought it totally unrighteousness to suddenly “dump” the memory of a fellow Protestant Christian as soon as they are deceased even though their life was filled with the Holy Spirit when alive . ... very strange .
In Russia, statues of "St. Nicholas of Mozhaisk" are common, this is an image of St. Nicholas of Myra with a sword in his right hand and a city in his left, created in honor of the protection of the holy city of Mozhaisk. Perm wooden sculpture ("Пермские боги") is a temple sculpture that became widespread in the Perm Territory in the XVII-XIX centuries. According to researchers, the Perm cult sculpture, which appeared two and a half centuries after the baptism of Perm the Great, most likely was not a replacement for the converts of their former idols, but on the contrary, served as a "factor of religious enlightenment." In the museum of my city there is an exposition of such sculptures, it is also an active temple, and another church of the Intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos, there is a 2.5 - 3-meter-high shrine. And the main shrine of the city is the Svyatoslav cross (Святославов крест) of the 13th century.
I always understood that statues fell out of use in the east after the iconoclasm, similar to how you don't see a lot of statues in Protestant churches even though most of them are no longer iconoclasts. I guess old habits die hard.
@@themorbidmole9247 I'll defer to you on this point. You seem to know what you are talking about. As for today, I can tell you that veneration of statues in the OC is not just very uncommon, but is in fact EXCEEDINGLY uncommon.
@@roytofilovski9530 yeah I wish it wasn't, there were some really cool looking byzantine statues back in the day. I really like the 3D looking icons too.
@@themorbidmole9247 Statues of church leaders, including saints, are also fine was well (so long as they are deceased). However, they have to be outdoors are may not be venerated. Admired as art, yes, but not venerated. Some of them can actually be very avantguard.
Kissing icons is not mandatory in Orthodoxy, at least not amongst Serbs. Bowing is also OK in certain situations. If a priest is not interacting with you one on one, then kissing an icon is not mandatory.
@@annabellehaibt7926 then, don't kiss your husband in the mouth or your parents/children on cheek, because you are worshipping then by your own ""logic""
Statuary is essentially the iconography of the catholic church, in the sense of an almost ubiquitous form of art that carries great devotional power. A good example of its prominence would be that the only prescribed image in the Roman rite is the crucifix. Two dimensional images (frescoes, paintings, mosaic, etc) generally are more didactic and decorative in catholic churches, they lack the same devotional practices (an exception would be certain famous icons of our lady, such as that of our perpetual help). Id say the Catholic veneration for statues is often very similar in concept to the eastern veneration of icons, even if it is more instinctual rather than fully explained. When someone kisses the feet of Christ on a crucifix it is not the wood itself which they are adoring, but what that figure represents. The statue becomes a kind of physical doorway to the sacred, it makes what it represents present.
Yeah, like the Antiochian Orthodox Western Rite Parishes are implementing statues because they have been a part of the orthodox tradition and still are classified as icons as far as orthodoxy goes, statue as well as non-statue imagery are both defended under the seventh ecumenical council. There were even statues in the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople when it was used by the Byzantines. But theologically icons have more significance to them, and so are preferred.
my priest says its idolatry, an other priest i spoke to also says its idolatry, say its too "lifelike" and its trying to make icons which depict entities in the spiritual realm in our plane of existence, one also has this criticism for very realistic western christianity paintings. i personally disagree, i think most of the arguments/justifications for 2d icons also hold for statues, just my opinion. catholics certainly dont practice idolatry with their statues and its wrong to say they do, i like what you say about icons being windows to heaven though, it makes sense.
Depends which Western Rite. I spoke with the Vicar of the Rocor Western Rite, and he said he’s very hesitant about adopting Roman Catholic Practices, such as the rosary, statues etc. Whereas the Antiochians are much more willing to accept such a thing.
Western Orthodox have very heavy Byzantine influence. They don't even allow them to use unleavened bread but instead make them flatten leavened bread into discs, thus defeating the entire purpose of leaven. It's quite maddening some of the things they force on them.
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608 That is absolutely ridiculous. Byzantine churches were in communion with churches that use unleavened bread for centuries, this is a non-issue. Romans, Syraics, Armenians, and Maronites have all used unleavened bread. Jesus Christ consecrated unleavened bread at the last supper, is that unacceptable to you?
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608 Syraics do not used leavened, I've communed at Syraic churches and know what they use. Also you're dead wrong saying other churches didn't use unleavened bread while in communion with byzantine churches, they did, this isn't a secret, do your research. Also, there is much debate over the bread used at the last supper, the answer isn't definitive and quite frankly doesn't matter. If it mattered then Christ and his apostles would have specified, or in the very least there would be a council convoked to rule on it which there wasn't. You're the type of person that harms efforts toward unifying the body of Christ using petty and trivial reasons to sow distrust and confusion.
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608 You obviously don't realize that there are multiple different Syraic rites, probably because the eastern orthodox church is byzantine rite only and are liturgical supremacists. You haven't addressed any points I made earlier you're just deflecting to different topics. Maronites, Syro-Malabar, and Armenians have always maintained the use of unleavened bread whilst in union with both Roman and Byzantine churches. You're falsely claiming that this is doctrine when it has never been defined as such by the universal church. The Antiochian church even maintained communion with both Rome and Constantinople up until the 18th century and the bread was never a point of issue for either churches. And don't you dare accuse the western church of believing in the heresy of dualism because east and west both condemn dualism in an Ecumenical council. You should let your church hierarchs speak for your church rather than assuming the mantle of truth and discernment as an individual on the internet and further damaging Christ's body. Also just so you know, the chalice and unction is not withheld from Roman laymen. Please don't assume things you know nothing about.
St. Augustine's Latin Rite Orthodox Church in Denver has several statues. Also, the St. Benedict crucifix is used. A ROCOR WR priest gifted me such a crucifix.
Icons = Windows to Heaven Statues?! Better not! We don't want to be accused of idolatry, do we? Just look at what fundamentalist Protestants say about Catholics...
The use of statues isn't idolatry though unless you worship the statue itself. If that was the case, in Exodus 25, God should be accused of commanding Moses to commit idolatry when He commanded him to built statues of cherubim and put them on the ark of the covenant, which played a big role in the worship of the Jews. We mostly don't use statues because, as he says in the vid, because statues don't give so much emphasis to the fact that the depiction isn't the thing which is being depicted, so we use icons, which are 2D,to avoid confusion basically.
Roman Catholics absolutely do worship their statuary! When I became Roman Catholic that was one of my biggest bones to pick with them. Not only with statues in the church that people bow down to cross themselves kissed and then said a prayer they also mostly had a Virgin Mary in their backyard that they did the same thing with and I was never able to get that or do it myself!
That's definitely deferent, (I'm a Roman Catholic), in here we don't do that, while we do pray to statues (the same way orthodox Christians do to icons), I think they kiss,or bow, or pray to them to express their love to God, the saints, the Mother of God,and Jesus Christ
I am Catholic and no, we absolutely do not worship our statuary. Kissing a statue does not constitute worship. Neither is praying in front of a statue.
A priest once described the veneration of icons this way: If a little kid runs up to his mother with a drawing of her and says "look mommy! it's you! *mwah*" and kisses it. The child is not trying to show love for paper and crayons. This is a very genuine way of expressing love for the mother.
This is precisely the way we do it! :-)
@@BanterWithBojan and if it was 3d? Not much difference
@@saidzueke4782what is not much? 3d is the direct difference its volume is different
That’s essentially what my priest told me. I was told icons are not meant to be realistic. They are meant to go beyond the external physical dimension to the spiritual reality of the person. In some ways this can be the opposite in statues, but others may have different views.
Some icons are in fact quite realistic and were painted in a purely Western style. Icons in Ortho. churches built in the Austrian or AU Empire tend to be very realistic and yet are no less venerated than those of the Byzantine style.
Another example are the icons in the Saborni Hram in Belgrade, Serbia. Those icons were painted in the Western style at a time when Belgrade was the capital of the Kingdom of Serbia. In that instance, the Austrian esthetic was employed even beyond Hapsburg lands.
Ahhh, a Filipino Catholic!
We sorely need icons over here, and I love your videos!
You can get some ordered offline for your home, if you can’t find an Orthodox Church nearby. Legacy Icons have some beautiful icons, I recommend getting icons of Jesus called Pantocrator, and Mary with a baby Jesus, these are the main ones. Also, some pre schism saints are present in icons, like Saint Nicolas
I have always thought it totally unrighteousness to suddenly “dump” the memory of a fellow Protestant Christian as soon as they are deceased even though their life was filled with the Holy Spirit when alive . ... very strange .
In Russia, statues of "St. Nicholas of Mozhaisk" are common, this is an image of St. Nicholas of Myra with a sword in his right hand and a city in his left, created in honor of the protection of the holy city of Mozhaisk.
Perm wooden sculpture ("Пермские боги") is a temple sculpture that became widespread in the Perm Territory in the XVII-XIX centuries. According to researchers, the Perm cult sculpture, which appeared two and a half centuries after the baptism of Perm the Great, most likely was not a replacement for the converts of their former idols, but on the contrary, served as a "factor of religious enlightenment."
In the museum of my city there is an exposition of such sculptures, it is also an active temple, and another church of the Intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos, there is a 2.5 - 3-meter-high shrine. And the main shrine of the city is the Svyatoslav cross (Святославов крест) of the 13th century.
I always understood that statues fell out of use in the east after the iconoclasm, similar to how you don't see a lot of statues in Protestant churches even though most of them are no longer iconoclasts. I guess old habits die hard.
I'm not sure that is true. In fact, I doubt it very much and am pretty certain that three dimensional art has always been very rare in the OC.
@@roytofilovski9530 it wasn't as common in the east as it was in the west but it became even more uncommon after the iconoclasm.
@@themorbidmole9247 I'll defer to you on this point. You seem to know what you are talking about. As for today, I can tell you that veneration of statues in the OC is not just very uncommon, but is in fact EXCEEDINGLY uncommon.
@@roytofilovski9530 yeah I wish it wasn't, there were some really cool looking byzantine statues back in the day. I really like the 3D looking icons too.
@@themorbidmole9247 Statues of church leaders, including saints, are also fine was well (so long as they are deceased). However, they have to be outdoors are may not be venerated. Admired as art, yes, but not venerated. Some of them can actually be very avantguard.
Praise Be for the teaching of John of Damascus on holy images.
Oh my goodness! That is so clever! I never thought of that! That must be the reason why you kiss your icons but we don’t kiss our statues.
Kissing icons is not mandatory in Orthodoxy, at least not amongst Serbs. Bowing is also OK in certain situations. If a priest is not interacting with you one on one, then kissing an icon is not mandatory.
Hispanic Catholics tend to kiss our statues out of respect of the person it depicts
@@annabellehaibt7926 then, don't kiss your husband in the mouth or your parents/children on cheek, because you are worshipping then by your own ""logic""
I love the content and how adorable this channel is! 🥰 keep up the good work!
I’m not seeking Protestant approval for my Orthodox faith and practice! EVER! 🙏🌺☦️🌺🙏
I have a statue of Michaelangelo's Pieta which was actually based on a Greek ikon.
That's neat! Pieta's wonderful!
I like the frequent uploads
The last part is essential. Statues can lead to a form of idol worship. See Fatima false miracles
Statuary is essentially the iconography of the catholic church, in the sense of an almost ubiquitous form of art that carries great devotional power. A good example of its prominence would be that the only prescribed image in the Roman rite is the crucifix. Two dimensional images (frescoes, paintings, mosaic, etc) generally are more didactic and decorative in catholic churches, they lack the same devotional practices (an exception would be certain famous icons of our lady, such as that of our perpetual help). Id say the Catholic veneration for statues is often very similar in concept to the eastern veneration of icons, even if it is more instinctual rather than fully explained. When someone kisses the feet of Christ on a crucifix it is not the wood itself which they are adoring, but what that figure represents. The statue becomes a kind of physical doorway to the sacred, it makes what it represents present.
Interesting. 😮 Blessed Pentecost! 😁
Bruh , i get"learn hebrew today" ads on any religious video i click
It doesnt even need to be related to israel .youtube is dumb
Lucky you, mon ami. I get adverts for toenail fungus treatment. (ew... sorry for graphic-ness)
@@wrybreadspread too much burger king foot letuce
Well unlike you, I get Buddhism ads(I hate them), anyway what kind of Hebrew?, Old or new?
Yet I've seen statues in some orthodox churches...
Yeah, like the Antiochian Orthodox Western Rite Parishes are implementing statues because they have been a part of the orthodox tradition and still are classified as icons as far as orthodoxy goes, statue as well as non-statue imagery are both defended under the seventh ecumenical council. There were even statues in the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople when it was used by the Byzantines. But theologically icons have more significance to them, and so are preferred.
@@OrthobroAustin Even in Russia and Ukraine, they have some. While it is not for veneration though, as far as I know.
my priest says its idolatry, an other priest i spoke to also says its idolatry, say its too "lifelike" and its trying to make icons which depict entities in the spiritual realm in our plane of existence, one also has this criticism for very realistic western christianity paintings.
i personally disagree, i think most of the arguments/justifications for 2d icons also hold for statues, just my opinion.
catholics certainly dont practice idolatry with their statues and its wrong to say they do, i like what you say about icons being windows to heaven though, it makes sense.
Western-Rite Orthodox use statues.
Depends which Western Rite. I spoke with the Vicar of the Rocor Western Rite, and he said he’s very hesitant about adopting Roman Catholic Practices, such as the rosary, statues etc. Whereas the Antiochians are much more willing to accept such a thing.
Western Orthodox have very heavy Byzantine influence. They don't even allow them to use unleavened bread but instead make them flatten leavened bread into discs, thus defeating the entire purpose of leaven. It's quite maddening some of the things they force on them.
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608
That is absolutely ridiculous. Byzantine churches were in communion with churches that use unleavened bread for centuries, this is a non-issue. Romans, Syraics, Armenians, and Maronites have all used unleavened bread.
Jesus Christ consecrated unleavened bread at the last supper, is that unacceptable to you?
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608
Syraics do not used leavened, I've communed at Syraic churches and know what they use. Also you're dead wrong saying other churches didn't use unleavened bread while in communion with byzantine churches, they did, this isn't a secret, do your research.
Also, there is much debate over the bread used at the last supper, the answer isn't definitive and quite frankly doesn't matter. If it mattered then Christ and his apostles would have specified, or in the very least there would be a council convoked to rule on it which there wasn't.
You're the type of person that harms efforts toward unifying the body of Christ using petty and trivial reasons to sow distrust and confusion.
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608
You obviously don't realize that there are multiple different Syraic rites, probably because the eastern orthodox church is byzantine rite only and are liturgical supremacists. You haven't addressed any points I made earlier you're just deflecting to different topics. Maronites, Syro-Malabar, and Armenians have always maintained the use of unleavened bread whilst in union with both Roman and Byzantine churches.
You're falsely claiming that this is doctrine when it has never been defined as such by the universal church. The Antiochian church even maintained communion with both Rome and Constantinople up until the 18th century and the bread was never a point of issue for either churches.
And don't you dare accuse the western church of believing in the heresy of dualism because east and west both condemn dualism in an Ecumenical council. You should let your church hierarchs speak for your church rather than assuming the mantle of truth and discernment as an individual on the internet and further damaging Christ's body.
Also just so you know, the chalice and unction is not withheld from Roman laymen. Please don't assume things you know nothing about.
Can you please make a video on your prayer corner
keep it up bojan
every single crucifix a statue
Basically, you have no idea. Nothing you said answers the question
Thanks to fundamentalist Protestants icons over Statues for me
statues are luxury, christianity is and always has been a religion of poverty
I know some Western Orthodox who use statues
St. Augustine's Latin Rite Orthodox Church in Denver has several statues. Also, the St. Benedict crucifix is used. A ROCOR WR priest gifted me such a crucifix.
I ve been waiting for a vid like this for a while ALSO FIRST IM THE BEST MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You're actually second:)
@@mayven1556 THAT IS JUST PREPOSTOROUS BEHAVIOUR SIR HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME
@@onik_dovah4354 Lol
Statues are SENSUAL! :)) At least that's the traditional explanation.
Icons = Windows to Heaven
Statues?! Better not! We don't want to be accused of idolatry, do we? Just look at what fundamentalist Protestants say about Catholics...
The use of statues isn't idolatry though unless you worship the statue itself. If that was the case, in Exodus 25, God should be accused of commanding Moses to commit idolatry when He commanded him to built statues of cherubim and put them on the ark of the covenant, which played a big role in the worship of the Jews. We mostly don't use statues because, as he says in the vid, because statues don't give so much emphasis to the fact that the depiction isn't the thing which is being depicted, so we use icons, which are 2D,to avoid confusion basically.
Who cares what some Protestant pastor say, as long as we don't worship statues themselves, then we're not heretics, they are
Sokolica Monastery is in Kosovo*, not Serbia.
Kosovo is Serbia and has been for the past 1000+ years.
Roman Catholics absolutely do worship their statuary! When I became Roman Catholic that was one of my biggest bones to pick with them. Not only with statues in the church that people bow down to cross themselves kissed and then said a prayer they also mostly had a Virgin Mary in their backyard that they did the same thing with and I was never able to get that or do it myself!
That's definitely deferent, (I'm a Roman Catholic), in here we don't do that, while we do pray to statues (the same way orthodox Christians do to icons), I think they kiss,or bow, or pray to them to express their love to God, the saints, the Mother of God,and Jesus Christ
I am Catholic and no, we absolutely do not worship our statuary. Kissing a statue does not constitute worship. Neither is praying in front of a statue.
👏First 👏
i disagree
Instant dislike :))))
2D
Religious: Icons
Secular: Photos
3D
Religious: Statues
Secular: Sex dolls
Looks like the orthodox solved this problem 1000 years ago
Er that's quite a jump
This is a pretty gross comment my guy