Zapperbox Update: DVR for ATSC 3.0 DRM Over the Air TV from an Antenna
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Buy one on Amazon: lon.tv/f1zxy (compensated affiliate link) - The Zapperbox now supports recording ATSC 3.0 DRM encrypted content. But an Internet connection is required and the content can only play back on the box that recorded it. See my original review: • ZapperBox M1 Review - ... and subscribe! lon.tv/s
VIDEO INDEX:
00:00 - Intro
01:02 - Price & Channel Guide Subscription
02:21 - DVR functionality & Storage Reqiurements
04:01 - Scheduled Recordings
04:41 - Manual Recording & History
05:25 - Setting Up Recordings
07:11 - Record in Progress
07:57 - Multiple Zapperboxes
08:54 - Zapperbox's Gateway Features & Encryption
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Great video as always. I also applaud Zapperbox for their dedication to the unit despite the huge hoops they have to go through with DRM.
Tyler do you also applaud a $250 price tag for a tuner that requires an annual fee as well? I would like to hear you say it is a bit overpriced.
@@vaughnbay I don't think it's overpriced all for what you get. Look at how much a Tivo costs.
You can bet the broadcasters will NEVER allow these boxes to work on encrypted channels without connecting to the internet periodically. It may be once a day, once every few days, once a week, or whatever. But they will NEVER give up the requirement for these boxes to "check in" to the mother ship in order to continue receive encrypted broadcasts. We need to continue the efforts to prevent any ENCRYPTION on the PUBLIC AIRWAVES. If broadcasters want to encrypt their content when delivering through another medium (such as the internet), fine. But no broadcaster should be allowed to transmit encrypted programming on the PUBLIC AIRWAVES. That's why they are called the PUBLIC AIRWAVES. That's why you need a license from the FCC to transmit on them.
Right there with you Toby.
@@lexluthermiester Who has the biggest lobbying slush fund, you or the National Association of Broadcasters? The better question is why this guy Lon and the "Antenna Man" have back off....
@@vaughnbay To your first point, who cares? To your second point, we need to remind the lawmakers who they actually serve.
LONBALL: these product should be the same free level as the previous television standards. It’s clown stuff.
I hope to see more of these updates on the ZapperBox competition too!
Love the detail and frequency of updates on this topic Lon!
DRM decryption without an internet connection is on the roadmap; and Zapperbox has delivered on all of its promises thus far.
is there a box that can receive atsc 3 without internet activation currently?
@@magog6852 no
@@magog6852 Zinwell makes one. Model ZAT600B.
We are really going backwards with ASTC 3.0.
A thorough, honest, and well articulated review. Whether or not consumers will purchase this unit at the current price remains to be seen. Nevertheless, an impressive unit worth considering, especially for techies.
Man remember during NTSC Analog days where when I switched a channel it just switched to the channel with no long delay. Changing channels ever since we switched to Digital has gotten so much slower now. By the time I switch to like 5 channels on digital I would have already flipped through 15 channels on analog. Now it seems like ATSC 3.0 is even freaking slower taking so long to change channels.
the zapperbox has never been abel to start a recording in the series tab ...that tab only shows the series you programed to watch ..im 100% happy with my m-1 dual tuner ..the zapperbox folks are working hard to deliver what they promised from day one ..i am looking forward to next round of updates :)
Thank you very much for the video! Question. What happens if you have an internet outage during a recording, or if you have an outage and want to watch something already recorded would it be possible?
Good review Lon. As you state, it is improving. It seems that hdhomerun is still more stable but the atsc 3.0 recording is nice. The multi room device sounds very promising
I really hope the encryption gets outlawed. I really want to be able to tune into my local channels on my phone with bad weather. The people I live with can sleep through it but I almost never do...
Hi Lon, great explanation of the Zapper box. I have a 2-tuner unit, but have not updated SW in a few days, so decryption isn’t working yet on my box. One question, NBC has announced that they are providing a new ATSC3 feature on the WNBC O&O from NYC. I can receive both WNBC and WVIT in Stratford. The new feature is called replay-TV, where if you tune in mid-program, the ATSC3 signal will support you re-starting the program from the beginning. I’m not certain what ATSC3 hardware you need to support this. Sinclair and Pearl consortium are touting this too. Have you heard anything about this? It was announced at the NAB Show last week.
I think this might be the thing that streams over the internet - they do have support for this I believe (or will soon).
Thanks, that’s good to know!
@bruce2sail the startover feature requires support for interactive apps (aka RUN3TV). We plan to add that by the end of this year. Our current focus is multi-room DVR and offline DRM.
I have 2 questions in regard to this product. 1 Can you 'clone' a USB or micro sd card with the recordings? 2 Is a USB or card tied to a specific zapper box so if your unit dies,you can use the recordings on a new zapperbox unit?
Encryption slows down switching between channels. Internet connection problems causes no TV unnecessarily and makes this cumbersome, like in a car which one needs to use a mobile hot spot, for example. One reason would be advertising targeting. Does the Internet requirement block (Or will some day block) reception of channels in adjacent TV markets (Like a region lock)? In addition to my local market, I can receive channels from 3 other TV markets in addition to my local market. I haven't seen discussions about this or maybe I missed it?
Not at the moment but it's totally possible to implement.
Channel change slowdown due to DRM will go away for two reasons: 1) We still need to add license caching 2) offline DRM. Lon is right that DRM could be used to enable geo-fencing and that should never be allowed for adjacent markets or legit away from home viewing.
Gt Media usb next gen receiver has filed a license for DRM encryption according to ther Facebook page.
DRM is such a bummer. I keep my primary TV on an ergotron AV cart. It's incredibly inconvenient to have my tuner box connected to the TV, since I move it around constantly. Network tuner options were not simply for pirates and Locast-type services.
I wonder what will occur if I wait months to view a DRM recording... Like waiting for a season to complete and then binge. Some boxes only need the internet to set up, What if I want to watch a DRM'd show or recording with NO INTERNET. I typed too soon, I just heard/read about the future no internet required.
hows the atsc 3.0 signals at my end had
no content avaiable at this time...
dose yoyr atsc 3.0 come go
while testing are you able to recieve WHCT 18 that supports metv heros icon like to
see how zapper box handles those networks in recording
If you are forced to put it on the LAN, do they at least have a Roku app so all my TV's can reach the tuner?
Roku app is on the roadmap. Coming in 2025. We will have Zapper dongles this year. The added benefit of dongles is that they support Dolby Atmos in each room. Roku apps can only support stereo audio.
2024 april playback question
as you watch recording s dose it stay on the file your watching ?? movie or series
...
or like mediadonic as you playback skips over to next file...
please verify this for me
Currently, it does not skip to the next episode automatically. That is something we have considered.
I am posting messages to Zapperbox regarding receiving constant buffering problems. These are not occurring occasionally it is consistent. Their video shows to turn off the pause buffer, Search/Settings/Storage/Microsd _card/Pause_Buffer: off, and I checked and mine was already off. I listened to the antenna man videos and I cannot see anything I can do to fix this problem, does anyone else having this same problem?
You mentioned you cannot do 3 things simultaneously. I assume you should be able to watch a finished recording while it is recording 2 new shows.
You are correct - I should have clarified that a little better.
@@LonSeidmanAlso, some ATSC 1.0 DVRs will allow you to watch another program on the same RF channel as the one you’re recording using one tuner. I’m wondering if DRM makes that impossible or less feasible.
@@jeffreykoerber6595 Most likely less feasible.. All of my ATSC 3 networks come in on the same frequency but the box is limiting me to two.
@@jeffreykoerber6595 We will enable watching and recording multiple programs on the same RF channel. That makes the UI a bit more complex and it is a bit harder to explain to non-technical users (why they can record more than two channels sometimes but not at other times). But. it will come.
ZapperBox box is great in CT all atsc3 come in. Plus all other channels. I love it and turned off hdhomerun.
Looking for a four tuner a t s c 3.0 dvr
I think I'm going to wait until it can stream content (live or recorded) to my small screens.
Every time you do one of these update videos on DRM, you should submit it to the FCC and your representatives.
Then do a FOIA request in a year to prove they through it in the trash.
According to antenna man he thinks because of DRM encryption 3.0 is dead in the water.what do you think?
Unfortunately, it is not going away. OTT providers like RUclips TV and Netflix use the same DRM. And that gives broadcasters ammunition to say "they got it, why cant we?"
@@zapperbox Why can't broadcasters? Because they're using the American people's airwaves and those signals should stay unencrypted so we can receive them freely.
It will go away - the FCC can’t ignore the thousands of consumers who have registered their disapproval of encryption. Netflix et. al don’t use the public airwaves for free.
I never said ATSC 3.0 is dead in the water but rather there's a chance it might flop because of DRM. Broadcasters aren't giving consumers much of a reason to upgrade to 3.0. If anything, it's a downgrade with the requirement of an internet connection and lack of gateway tuners that can be accessed on virtually any streaming device of the consumer's choice.
@@AntennaMan not in so many words this was just a figer of speech but you're statements do reflect negative and rightfully so that was my point.I still can figure why stations are spending millions of dollars if there is a chance that this will never be a mandate.
Can I watch channels that are broadcasting in 4k?
None are
At some point they just don’t want people using antennas unless they can turn it into a subscription. Above and beyond what any user would realistically put up with. Why bother if it means having these dedicated, locked down boxes connected to internet?
Off topic, you need to put out a service announcement out to download Delta on iPhones and iPads. I’m sure Nintendo is working hard to have it booted.
You need internet to play a locally recorded ATSC 3 program? unacceptable Glad they are trying to fix that!
'gateway'? it was called taking the tape from one VCR to another in previous years.. now its taking the usb stick out of the dvr and putting it in my linux box... ...i really hate atsc3...
My dvr is my linux box. But I'm not touching atsc 3until the drm is sorted out.
Where i live i have no internet other than my cell phone because i live in the country like many other people,so we can't update to this new stuff.
Is internet over 5g an option for you?
So now the FCC will need granny to have an internet connection to watch her stories.
No. The FCC mandates that TV must work without Internet. We have a temporary waiver so we can have some extra time to implement offline DRM which is much more complex.
@@zapperbox I wish you had just said: No. No DRM, = no ATSC 3.0
@@ZombieRyushu We would prefer it if there was no DRM. It would make life easier for all of us. At least now that we have implemented it, our box is safe regardless of whether DRM survives or not.
@@zapperbox we can have no DRM, We just refuse to buy it, they won't make the money, nor the manufacturers causing them to exert pressure.
JUST DON"T BUY ATSC 3 Devices
Did they learn nothing from the switch to digital and they had a blackout and no one could watch the weather alerts because the converter boxes needed power.
this is part of that, whole reason for analog to digital switch was broadcaster's long term thievery
I am in Canada and am darn glad I axed cable 4 yrs ago I only watch 30 mins via OTA for local news a day (if I do not fall asleep watching it & horrendous amt of commercials). No doubt the broadcasters will squash these devices. They have deeper pockets and can afford the lawyers and greasing of politicians palms. Hope spinrgs eternal though.
$30/yr? Guess I will wait for Tablo's ATSC 3 box
That is my plan too.
The weird part about this, is that ATSC 1.0 provides a guide itself... sent out by the channel... does ATSC3 not do that?
@@mephitusincognito7918 yes. 24 hour guide is free.
Oh come on! help the little guys. Tablo is owned by the bazzillionare Scripps Corporation and can afford to give free guide data.
@@zapperbox atsc 1.0 sends its own guide over the air... what is yours needed for? to pay for another failure of atsc3?
Torrents for life
Torrents won't give you live tv
I dont care about live tv. @@EightPieceBox
My Spectrum internet has been so awful for the last 8+ months with 3 or 4 10-15 minute or so outages a day that I don't consider any TV solution that requires internet in any form to be a viable solution for me. I hope ATSC 3.0 dies the death it deserves (although I'm sure it won't) and that ATSC 1.0 keeps going on for a long time so I can continue with the various OTA TiVOs I have been very happily using for the last 20+ years.
I will never buy anything that legitimizes OTA encryption.
Yes, part of the FCC’s equation for figuring out when to sunset ATSC 1.0 is how many 3.0 tuners are sold. If consumers don’t buy devices with 3.0 tuners, then it will be more difficult for them to justify sunsetting 1.0.
I would rather not have 3.0 at all and just stick with 1. This whole thing is a disaster and not good for the public at all. But we knew it was all a setup in the first place.
As soon as I need a box with encryption I will take down my antenna.
they still win cause then you have nothing free
Isn’t zapperbox owned by a cable network. I’m very Leary of trusting all these companies. The ad pushing is completely out of control.
This may fail epically.
What began as an awesome premise is a huge disappointment.
Tablo is the one owned by Scripps - these guys have a background in set top boxes.
We're a 10 person company from the corn fields of Iowa 🙂
If you watch closely you can find a Nextgen equipped TV (with channel listings) for under $400. $250 for just the tuner section plus an annual fee for the channel listing is a bit much. I'm disappointed you didn't agree and say so.
Ridiculous that you will not be able to watch OTA stations without internet. Imagine that there is a internet outage, you SOL on watching TV.
I abandoned the public broadcasters in 2023. Any series that we want to watch we can get on Hulu the next day. As consumers, our power over them is with our money. Don't pay to subscribe to what should be public, over the air, channels.
but hulu pays them, You are doing exactly what they want
Does SiliconDust realize that they are falling very far behind the competition? They don’t even have DRM encryption solved yet alone recording an encrypted channel. May be they aren’t the smartest people in the room like they thought they were.
It’s not that they aren’t smart, but the rug was pulled out from under them with DRM. The broadcasters aren’t allowing 3.0 to be streamed over a network.
300$ after taxes plus 30$ for a channel guide.this thing won't be around long with much cheaper receivers comming to the market.
Atsc 3.0 with drm has turned free over the air channels into lame subscription fees. First we need a zapper box and now pay a subscription fee just to record stuff. I have dish network and I don't how atsc 3.0 will affect dish network. At this point, might as well use free apps that offers free over the air channels that bypasses the encryption. What's next, pay monthly subscription fees on top of paying for licensing fees for every stream service for all music, movies and video games but done in an ala carte format that applies to streaming instead of food. Streaming services are gonna get to the point that they become ala carte along with monthly subscription fees along with licensing fees since most places are already removing physical media. Now we have to rely heavily on expensive and unreliable stream services while they are taking away content that is part of the force arbitration. Roku has already filed a patent back in august of 2023 with any hdmi connected devices and show nothing but ads and now atsc 3.0 has ruined free over the air channels with requiring the internet just to view content and show more ads. Luckily there is a modded version of youtube to bypass the ads and bypass the sponsors in the videos. Now there needs to be a way to bypass the atsc 3.0 drm and remove the encryption without paying for a zapper box and without paying for any subscription fees with no ads similar to the modded versions of youtube but have it apply to over the air channels. I miss the days when we could record stuff on tv with vhs tapes and I wish it was like that with atsc 3.0 with free over the air channels instead of having drm and encrypted channels. I miss the analog era since stuff could be recorded without drm and no encryption at all. For example, record music from the radio with cassette tapes and press record with rewind and fast forward. Basically implement the recording features from the analog era and implement them in the digital era. I miss the era when things were literally just plug and play without needing to create any accounts, no need to keep track of having multiple accounts so the accounts don't automatically get charged when losing track of having multiple accounts in case when canceling accounts that are no longer being used, no internet connection, no subscription services, no drm and no encryption. The 90s era and the earlier eras were much simpler times but the newer era makes things more complicated while the consumers have less options and less control when they paid for stuff and actually owning stuff that was already paid for one time instead of continuing paying for stuff like how it is now. It sucks that we are living more in the modern era of not owning anything and force to be happy about it since the majority of consumers don't care about ownership and rather keep on buying stuff without owning anything. I currently use the dish network anywhere app to watch live tv when using mobile data when I'm away from home. I don't know how atsc 3.0 will affect dish network anywhere app.
WRONG
@@ericB3444 nope you are the one who is wrong. this is where its all headed
@@polarvortex6601 name ten reasons you think this in descending order of impact.
@@ericB3444 name ten reasons why is not? you are one asking the question, tell me the benefits of this thing.
1) signals are scrambled, where once it used to be free of access
2) it requires an internet connection in order for your device to decrypt the signal
3) you have to pay a monthly or yearly fee just to access the digital tv guide
4) the fact that the signals are encrypted it can lead to privacy issues
5) some TV makers are dropping this like a hot potato see lg
6)despite you paying a yearly or monthly fee you will still see commercials
this is a bad proposition all around. until they drop the stupid DRM i will oppose it with all my might
now you tell me 10 reasons why this is good? i'm waiting
Correct.
in order to use this box, you need the Internet only to download an authorization key. To me this would harm people who may live in world communities who may not have high-speed Internet. Do you remember back in the days, using dial up? Many parts of the country, still have that, because it is a low-cost option and some people, that is all they can afford.
I am wondering if this device has a screen reader, built-in? To comply with the 21st-century telecommunication act, all boxes must have some type of screen reader built-in for people who are blind in low vision. as a blind person, we have been pushing for that change for 30 years. It finally happened, and we want to make sure that all devices are compliant. 9:00 9:00
too much $$$$
My Tivo from 2016 has more functionality. This thing is a total joke for its price. The EU versions using their standard are $30-$40. Hope ATSC 3.0 dies, and the US joins the EU standard.
TiVo will probably die if they don’t get into the ATSC 3.0 game which is unfortunate as I’ve been a tivo customer since 2003.
@@BlahBlah-em2ed I disagree. I do not think they are actively even trying to stay in the home DVR business anymore since being sold. If they do want to stay in the game, I think it is smart of them to hold off on the expensive licensing and lawyers dealing with the A3SA until it is proven that ATSC 3.0 will even become the standard. At current adoption rates, it isnt looking good. The early adopters who the A3SA needs to spread the word on 3's greatness are all basically saying to wait until the DRM debacle, and network tuner debacle is ironed out. When Silicon Dust gets DRM, THEN I will believe its possible that ATSC 3.0 might be a viable delivery method. As long as A3SA are killing innovation to protect their DRM, ATSC 3 will die a slow death.
@@DaveNLR2 ATSC3 is coming, but it will take a decade or more to sunset ATSC1. Broadcasters and spending money to upgrade their infrastructure to push out the signal. If broadcast tv can shrink their signal footprint on the RF spectrum with more throughput, ATSC3 will happen and the FCC will accommodate so they can continue to sell the spectrum to telecommunications companies for billions.
@@BlahBlah-em2ed No doubt, but in 10 years, I suspect people will be getting their TV from low orbit satellites and other internet sources, and broadcast TV will just switch to one of those distribution methods rather than maintaining expensive and power hungry single site transmitters with expensive towers. I just don't see OTA TV lasting another 10 years. The NFL is already moving away from it, MLB isnt available at all except a select game or two. NBA is the same. Without live sports, OTA TV is just the local news and everything else you can watch online the next day. I see the most popular programming leaving OTA for more profitable distributors and people getting fed up paying ever increasing carriage fees. Heck, the younger generator gets their news on a 6" screen from TikTok now. Not a single person in my family under the age of 60 even watches an OTA station ever.
$30/yr for recording with 2 boxes so it's only $15 per box per year then. Yeah, to be fair here, it's well closed to $1 a month if you're generous enough, so to speak.
On the other hand, should it really be a consumer burden to pay the Google Widevine DRM annual fee to protect the copyright of broadcasters? Why can't they just pay the DRM leasing with their own money? Is this FCC decision to push the burden to consumer really legal? Bring this to SCOTUS, will ya?
The fee isn’t for drm licensing it’s for the channel guide data
@@LonSeidman If I don't care for the guides, shouldn't I be able to record for free?
@@JohnWilliams-gy5yc yes you can set it to record manually per the video
@@LonSeidmanThe broadcasters put out guide data, so shouldn’t a box be able to DVR programs based on that? It might not give you advanced features like only recording new episodes, but it should work on some level.
@@jeffreykoerber6595 It will work with what it gets but the subscription service delivers two weeks of data vs. a very short look-ahead
This is all just marketing noise. DRM on public airwaves is unacceptable.
Why is it acceptable on the public Internet for RUclips TV and Netflix?
Disappointing to see you supporting drm.
Google and Netflix aren’t provided a license to use spectrum free of charge for the purpose of serving the public interest, convenience and necessity.
@@LonSeidman Not supporting it, we would much prefer to see it vanish. But, presenting the case that OTT content seems to have been given a free pass when it comes to DRM. The FCC does have the right to regulate the Internet too because it is carried using public rights of way.
@@zapperbox They don't have the ability to regulate the Internet - maybe the wires but not the data. It's concerning that you happen to be using the very same talking points they've been using with me as to why they think they have a right to encrypt broadcast signals.