Nice video, Stefan! We get lots of questions comparing our turbo kit to others, so it's great to hear some input from another Miata specialty shop that has experience dealing with multiple turbo kits for Miatas. Just to address some of the questions and comments here: 1. Yes! We do have an updated version of our turbo manifold available for 1.8L engines (1.6L version coming soon!). It's sexier, is 2.5lbs. lighter and flows 24% better than the "old" design shown in your video, and they are even Cerakoted now! You can see more pictures and details about it in our NA8 and NB Stage 1 Turbo Kit listings (I'd share the link, but RUclips will auto-delete this comment). 2. Our Stage 1 Turbo kits for the NA/NB Miatas do include a piggyback controller that we developed in-house. The piggyback controller wires in alongside the stock ECU to adjust fueling during boost. This is the only way to add fueling during boost reliably to retain CARB legality. Aftermarket standalone ECUs will never be able to pass any official state or federal emissions testing when it comes down to the letter of the law. 3. The NA6 (1990-93) version of our Stage 1 Turbo Kit usually makes about 160ish whp, but the 1.8L engines can make more - especially the NB variants. Check out the dyno chart listed in the pictures of our NB Stage 1 Turbo Kit on our website - some of the healthier NB engines are making nearly 200whp! 4. And yes, we fully admit that we've had trouble keeping inventory for our Stage 1 Turbo Kits for the last year and some change. We are very sorry for all of the delays! However, we have worked with a few of our manufacturers (and switched to a few new ones) in an effort to get kits back on the shelf ASAP. Fortunately, we're making good progress and we're now focusing on ironing out some of the wrinkles to make full steam ahead. We're actually planning on having more Stage 1 Turbo Kits in stock around the end of January or early February of 2024, so things are looking up! Thank you all so much for your patience and understanding! Thanks again for the great video, Stefan! Keep up the great work! 👍😃👍
@@onlywenilaugh6589 That doesn't mean they're not shipping, it simply means they're selling out so quickly that we can't keep them on the shelf. There are a couple of dozen coming in to stock tomorrow with another drop mid-March. We're working towards having stock on the shelf at all times, but first we need to satisfy a whole lot of pent-up demand.
Thanks for the video! Two quick comments, I think Flyin Miata just updated their turbo manifold. To the layman's eye, it looks a lot like Kraken's now. Second, and this is probably not as important to most who decide to take on the install themselves, but with limited mechanical experience, the biggest benefit to buying FM's kit for me was their tech support and install videos.
Came to the comments to say the exact same thing. I know they just started shipping those out so there doesn't seem to be any info online about the performance gains with it on vs the old manifold just yet. According to FM, its better than the old manifold design by being lighter and better flowing by a considerable percentage. Also, if you have never installed a turbo before, FM is the most straightforward and well documented out there, I believe. Your also buying into their customer service in which they essentially act as a lifetime warranty if anything breaks or fails and it's clear that it was a manufacturing/quality issue rather than a user error or just normal wear/tear, even if its several years in the future of ownership. I do think the kraken kit is better for building on top of for those that want to go to drag strips, but if you have a specific power goal on mind(a highly responsive 200whp-250whp) and intend to drive your car on the street a lot, then the FM kit gives you a solid peace of mind knowing that they will have you covered.
I was pretty skepctical with the Kraken injectors aswell, its been more than a month since mine got tuned, and they work flawlessly. Also the guy is the nicest dude ever, always helped me out instantly.
@@ZareefHuq NA Miata. My tuner was the one who figured out everything, sent him the info sheet from kraken, he had some idle problems at first because they're pretty overkill for my 260hp, but I have no info after that, just told me he fixed it. They run perfect still, cold and hot starts along with the idle, on a Speeduino.
STOP THE PRESSES!!!! You're showing the old Flyin' Miata manifold. They have NEW manifolds and down pipes that are supposed to flow way more than the old manifolds without changing the inlet/outlet location. That means you can upgrade the manifold without changing anything else. AND they're Cerakoted! Oh, and they're pounds lighter. Check them out.
@@NappMotorsports the new manifolds and downpipe have only been available since late summer, and I'm pretty sure that some of the other items in their kit have been keeping them from being in stock.
Having installed a kraken, and driven a kraken, I can say without a doubt the kraken kit is best. Especially paired with godly 1.6. Mines a low mount kit though, which is just superior to everything else. That's why Greg Peters had to copy my build
I have a bit of both worlds and my current set up is the kraken turbo kit but with the flying Miata silicone hoses and I love it keeps everything tucked away and looks great in the engine bay :)
Recently installed my kraken kit. Only thing i would disagree, is kraken is a little less plug and play than flying miata for a couple of minor things. Mostly if you have the 7 inch inter cooler the power steering cooling line is in the way and you ll have to unbolt it and tie rap it up. For fitting the turbo into the car with the manifold mounted with rhe turbo in one assembly you dont need to cut the engine bay chassis you can just unbolt that side motor mount and jack the engine or have someone tug on the engine from passenger side to fit the manifold Also if you took the option without ac but with power steering, (turbo pointing down)the power steering rubber hose at the top will need to be "uncomfortably" put out of the way or you'll have to snake around a new hose You cant reuse any splash guards so you'll need to do new duckting. And my kit came with a wrong size clamp for compressor outlet Sometimes the kit will comme with missing things or uncorect things. The quality controll is not the best but bare in mind its a almost one man operation Also the intake adaptor flange i got was jenkly made compared to what i saw in other kits felt like home made after thought which it was. You'll also need to make your own gasket for that. The exhaust also seems to not be back putged for any readon? But it will be tough enough and its not like you will feed clean water trough it. Just dont be suprized if there's some crustiness inside the exhaust. Other than that the kit is really nice, it looks like i dont like it but i really do! You'll receive different fittings and hardware depending on what deals he has on stock at the time.
I have the FM kits on both my 1.6’s. I’m in California so I have to deal with smog testing. Beside the fact these pass smog testing. The kits are just so complete. They supply every last nut and bolt you need to install their kit. The instructions are easy to follow. Installation ease is a 10/10 for the FM kits.
Any one other than me running the MK turbo kit? Has been good on my 1.8 for 3 years and about 15k miles with a few track days. I plan to reuse it ( to start) on my new build BP4W going in this winter. Old setup on a stock engine made 231hp with the cheap ebay turbo. Love the videos
For anyone that's curious, I would like to add that I have a kraken manifold and downpipe on a garret 2860rs no power steering no ac and I did not have to clearance the engine bay near the shock tower. It was a very close fit but I was able to make it work with the turbo pointed downwards, milage may vary depending on turbo size but it is possible
I’ve been on a CX Racing kit for about 4 years now. Motor is pretty healthy still. On 8psi. The turbo takes a while to spool but nonetheless makes a reliable 210hp on a conservative tune. Really want to switch to a kraken kit in the future now. Thanks for the video!
they did have a huge restock just recently on black friday, they said that they're nearing the end of their supply issue on some parts for the kit I believe. def sign up for the email when they restock if you're looking into getting one.
Excellent video! I have the FM kit and am building up an engine with a Kraken EFR kit in the shelf. FM kit is awesome. I am in an emissions state and my FM kit passes without issue. Only complaints are the limitations of the Garrett 2560, and the challenges running the charge pipe from the turbo to intercooler. The 2560 is an excellent turbo, well sized, but for those bitten by the more power bug it becomes a hurdle. The unique outlet on the 2560 limits doing an in-place upgrade, at least without modifying the turbo outlet pipe and potentially the downpipe. A G series super core using the 2560 exhaust housing may be an option, but I'm wary of mixing generations and any internal or external clearance issues that may cause. In my FM application, the only route I could make for the charge pipe from the turbo to intercooler runs up against the bolt for the upper control arm. The sharp edge of the control arm was quickly cutting through that pipe. I armored it with rubber hose, which in that tight space was a challenge itself. The Kraken kit I picked up will use the factory hole behind the driver's headlight, leaving me an intake problem I'll need to solve. More to come on how it comes together in my builder Miata. The 3" exhaust is gorgeous, i cant wait to finish building it and see how it runs.
Thanks so much for the thoughtful video. Didn’t really know I needed it until I started watching; I’m knee-deep in an Exocet build and am new to the Miata subculture, so trying to absorb as much as I can. Based on what I’m looking for, the FM kit is likely the direction I’m going to go, but it’s great to know there’s a 100% legit alternative.
I run a Kraken hotside (manifold + downpipe) along with the Kraken 3 inch v-band exhaust. I use FlyinMiata's cold side intercooler kit that fits up still nice and no kinks (I don't have AC and PS). I use FM turbo lines.
Would love to see one of these comparison videos for miata clutch kits on the market. There are a bunch of options and can be tough to determine which is best under what application.
I hope so! I’ve had a FM kit on my NB1 and loved it, but I’m debating on Kraken or FM for my NA6, it’ll come down to who’s in stock at this point, but honestly I am leaning toward Kraken. Your video hits a lot of the critiques that I have with both kits, so I appreciate this!
@@NappMotorsports That would make sense actually. Looking at my car, if I dropped the engine an inch the turbine exhaust housing would be extremely close to that part of the chassis.
i had a supercharger and track dog intercooler in one of mine, loved the whine of the SC and the instant go, and was making 215rwhp at the wheels, but never could get the gremlins worked out and had idle issues. It was stupid fast and i loved it, but i threw away the gas mileage benefits of the miata, mainly because nobody can keep their foot off the floor. These days I stick with stock NA platform but would be interested in beefing up a NA engine to get more power
Been watching your videos the past couple of days and subscribed tonight. In this video you said you weren't going into it, but can you please - in a future video - go into detail about the low mount Kraken kit?
I ran kraken low-mount on my compound setup and it was great.. fitment and mounting it had some issues which i think is resolved now, the cast neck for the downpipe must be a dream (the stainless long downpipe was really not great to install) but everything has very good quality from my experience.. the lowmount demanded the cut on the side aswell as cutting of an ear from the block iirc .. but really awesome kit.. boost around 3-3.5 with a Garret 2860r gen2 turbo, full boost before 4k.. the full 3" exhaust was also awesome, with the magnaflow option it was even not that loud in NA-setup (with oem header), although i had to make an "adapter-pipe" to fit. I think FM is a bit more pnp, but if you want to develop your car further the kraken is really high quality.. haven't compared price though?
I definitely like these videos. I have a love for Miatas and definitely love my old school BP engine. Yes I'm naturally asperated, but I like the sound and torquey nature of them in a light car, and the fact that mine is still running after about half a million miles and still gets equal compression within 2 psi on all 4 cylinders. I love learning about all the things that can be done with this motor, and might actually think about doing something like this one day. Like I said, I still have a completely stock setup with no turbo. There's still a distributor on my exhaust cam. Not exactly a race car, but still plenty of fun to drive and the longevity is amazing. I've thought about maybe bumping it up to 200 horsepower one day, so this stuff is interesting to learn more about. Thank you for these awesome and informative videos.❤
I love the low mount setup, it just doesn’t serve most people because it makes it hard to run PS/AC with clean routing. It’s the most efficient setup in terms of spool and exhaust restriction, and if I was building a car for myself, that’s the kit I would use hands down.
I'm debating making a kit. It's McMaster-Carr and I just have bags of bolts in the garage that I pick from. Block painting is just VHT Engine Enamel from Autozone.
@@NappMotorsportsMake a kit!! with different stages like valve cover only all the way to complete engine kit! would be cool and very marketable, jess up bolts (i think thats what theyre called charges a arm and a leg..
Thanks so much for doing this video. When reaching for 300+ whp isn't the Garrett GBC22-350 a better option over the 2560R? I saw a video where the owner swapped out his FM manifold for the Kraken and picked up around 23 whp.
Nice video... May i ask what is needed to get the valve cover (and vvt bulge) to this polished finish? Is it done by a shop or by you. Also after polishing, is it clearcoated? Thanks again for all the nice videos you upload!
Got a kit by Dynotronics that works great. Yes, it was about 2X the intended price, but it all works. Uses a "bespoke" G25-550..not sure exactly what that means. Not sure what the AR of the turbine housing is. Either a .72 or .92. Water/meth system..right at 300 rwhp.
Any rumors when FM is going to have an NC turbo kit? I'd also love to know how their Voodoo management board works in between the stock ECU and how it works. With the Kraken kit, I think you can take it apart and clock it just like the FM if you want to run your IC pipe straight down. What ECU do you use on the Kraken?
FM is 100% working on a kit for the NC. Should be out this summer I hope. And yes you can clock all turbos, but with AC and PS, the kit is designed to go out the top.
I currently own a FM S1 on my NA8 and I've gotten to the point where I'm thinking of purchasing the Kraken side mount w/ full 3" exhaust- just because there aren't a lot of options for pre-fab'd 3" systems. Really a bummer on FM's part and makes me think I should've went w/ Kraken from the beginning. I also get a bit of boost creep w/ their 2560R- but that may be because I'm in the PNW. Their intercooler piping also doesn't allow various BOV optioning- I get they're trying to be Carb leagal- but it should still be an option if someone's willing to dump 4k+ on their setup.
Any particular reason you don’t like the ISR turbo kit?? For the common Miata owner, and budget friendly kit, it’s a phenomenal kit, just curious if you have any experience with them
A turbo. Nothing else will do anything noticeable. I did do a exintake cam swap in my 1.6 and it made the midrange noticeably stronger but not anything huge.
I have a full kraken kit, with a gt2554. My turbo outlet points down? With their supplied piping. No need for cutting the frame or anything. Have mazda comp engine mounts.
I don't, but you wouldn't really notice a difference. I've driven other chassis with EFR's and Garretts and it's not like one drives worse than another.
Any experience in regards to quality and reliability of the manifolds in a road race environment? Cracking or warping? What studs will the manifolds accept, 8mm or 10mm?
Glad Kraken finally got their shit sorted out. I had a TERRIBLE experience with a few of their kits I installed for people a few years ago. Downpipes built wrong/didn't fit, intercooler piping that fouled on half the bay and didn't fit. IAC inlet and BOV flange welded on in the wrong spots, etc. Ended up having to modify the parts myself after Kraken told me I was "doing it wrong" and ghosted me.
I have heard that RX-8 injectors are direct PnP for NA and NB, and they flow about 420-450cc. Considering that you can easily get these from a junkyard for basically free, and then get them flow tested by FIC for $60, would they be a reasonably good option for a 250hp build?
No. RX8 injectors were an "ok" option many years ago, but most of them are knock offs now, and the spray pattern is absolute garbage. You'll struggle to get a good idle, and driveability will be sacrificed as well. It's not worth saving the couple bucks.
Super informative , i live upstate NY and realize miatas are not for me , I am aware that 160 Hp in lightweight car is more then many would expect to be fun but wouldnt go Through the costs associated with taking advatnage of the tremendously low weight of these cars as platform as thetr is no free lunch with them if you live in a State like NY . Its a shame that there is no easy way to add power to these cars and by power I mean something around 200 -220 for a giant killer for back roads of which are endless up here that wpi;d also has very surprising levels of shove based on power to weight that 220 HP would afford before you end up so traction limited its not fun . Either way or whatecer model year the gross amount of power you can get for adding a turbo per $ ratio as new yorker is a bummer no matter how much fun the end situatiion is . If you dont have to pay somebody to wrench for you and can piece stuff together perhaps but its for people with a few bucks who are extremely comitted to this particular cars charms . Its a drag considering the potential to start with such low weight . But NY are the champs of beuracracy , restricting fun and ,making things inordinantly expensive . Such a shame mazda didnt make it easier some how , theres no real way around it . I enjoy slow cars fast and will have wait until current 181 HP variant is cheap enough and settle for a stock car with some minor tweaks and tires . Very helpful to clue me in though and stop the wondering .
@@rafallo1333 yeah , I prefer value oriented person of limited means averse to living beyond those means but cheap in the common venacular cheap is accurate enough .
Will the 3” Kraken exhaust bolt up to the FM kit. With the new FM exhaust manifold, seems this might be the best performing setup. Or, will the FM intercooler kit with silicon hoses, bolts right up to the Kraken kit?
Yes I have a 95 Mazda Miata 1.8 NA and I want to try to do a turbo 300 horsepower where do I need to start at I have an engine block and a crankshaft that's it
My thoughts on the FM kit I installed: 1) I would prefer an aluminum line from the turbo to the intercooler. The air is hotter that the engine bay, so an aluminum IC pipe would emit heat. Silicone from IC to TB makes sense, because you do not water to reheat the air. 2) I was not able to get the the silicone IC line turbo-IC to not touch the silicone coolant line. No problem so far, but they touch. 3) This one is my fault. I ported every part the air touches from the filter adapter sleeve to the exhaust, and also added a DW fuel pump and professionally cleaned injectors. It also has 84mm pistons and fancy valves. The Voodoo box is not able to perfect the fuel/air ratio with this set up and it is really rich below 4.5k rpms. It makes great power up high though. 4) The FM site shows a dyno graph of their kit making just shy of 200hp on a '99 car, so hp levels are model year dependent. 5) When the Voodoo box is reading boost, the system goes into open loop. This means you can't cheat and use the 01-05 injectors in a 99 for example-- though they work fine without boost. Overall, it is a great kit with great fitment and great customer service, but if you are trying to use the Voodoo box, don't change anything that significantly affects airflow or fuel flow.
What about standalone ec units? I built mine back in the day it’s a 95 I have a tec3 electromotive unit and I’m looking to do some upgrades! Does Holly EFI make a system for the Miata? What would you recommend?
A coolant re-route is beneficial on a normally aspirated engine, arguably essential on a boosted engine. Depending on the re-route manufacturer, the new radiator top hose might rub on the pipe going into the throttle body, but nothing serious.
Neither kit being twin scroll manifold is bad. Twin scroll makes turbo spool 500-1000rpm earlier and is not much different to cast manifold as. It’s a real shame/ bit of a waste.
Not really a waste. Properly sized turbos like these come on so fast. Also twin scroll manifolds have to be bigger and there’s packaging constraints with PS and AC.
Nice video, Stefan! We get lots of questions comparing our turbo kit to others, so it's great to hear some input from another Miata specialty shop that has experience dealing with multiple turbo kits for Miatas.
Just to address some of the questions and comments here:
1. Yes! We do have an updated version of our turbo manifold available for 1.8L engines (1.6L version coming soon!). It's sexier, is 2.5lbs. lighter and flows 24% better than the "old" design shown in your video, and they are even Cerakoted now! You can see more pictures and details about it in our NA8 and NB Stage 1 Turbo Kit listings (I'd share the link, but RUclips will auto-delete this comment).
2. Our Stage 1 Turbo kits for the NA/NB Miatas do include a piggyback controller that we developed in-house. The piggyback controller wires in alongside the stock ECU to adjust fueling during boost. This is the only way to add fueling during boost reliably to retain CARB legality. Aftermarket standalone ECUs will never be able to pass any official state or federal emissions testing when it comes down to the letter of the law.
3. The NA6 (1990-93) version of our Stage 1 Turbo Kit usually makes about 160ish whp, but the 1.8L engines can make more - especially the NB variants. Check out the dyno chart listed in the pictures of our NB Stage 1 Turbo Kit on our website - some of the healthier NB engines are making nearly 200whp!
4. And yes, we fully admit that we've had trouble keeping inventory for our Stage 1 Turbo Kits for the last year and some change. We are very sorry for all of the delays! However, we have worked with a few of our manufacturers (and switched to a few new ones) in an effort to get kits back on the shelf ASAP. Fortunately, we're making good progress and we're now focusing on ironing out some of the wrinkles to make full steam ahead. We're actually planning on having more Stage 1 Turbo Kits in stock around the end of January or early February of 2024, so things are looking up! Thank you all so much for your patience and understanding!
Thanks again for the great video, Stefan! Keep up the great work!
👍😃👍
Awesome! Thanks for the reply guys. I knew I was missing some info so this is great.
I think Stefan needs more flying miata products to review
Actually, I've been trying to catch the FM kit in stock since Pandemic. So it's been out for more than a year and change. :)
@@onlywenilaugh6589 That doesn't mean they're not shipping, it simply means they're selling out so quickly that we can't keep them on the shelf. There are a couple of dozen coming in to stock tomorrow with another drop mid-March. We're working towards having stock on the shelf at all times, but first we need to satisfy a whole lot of pent-up demand.
Legends.
Thanks for the video! Two quick comments, I think Flyin Miata just updated their turbo manifold. To the layman's eye, it looks a lot like Kraken's now. Second, and this is probably not as important to most who decide to take on the install themselves, but with limited mechanical experience, the biggest benefit to buying FM's kit for me was their tech support and install videos.
Came to the comments to say the exact same thing. I know they just started shipping those out so there doesn't seem to be any info online about the performance gains with it on vs the old manifold just yet. According to FM, its better than the old manifold design by being lighter and better flowing by a considerable percentage.
Also, if you have never installed a turbo before, FM is the most straightforward and well documented out there, I believe. Your also buying into their customer service in which they essentially act as a lifetime warranty if anything breaks or fails and it's clear that it was a manufacturing/quality issue rather than a user error or just normal wear/tear, even if its several years in the future of ownership.
I do think the kraken kit is better for building on top of for those that want to go to drag strips, but if you have a specific power goal on mind(a highly responsive 200whp-250whp) and intend to drive your car on the street a lot, then the FM kit gives you a solid peace of mind knowing that they will have you covered.
FM's tech support is great for sure, and something to consider. Kraken's support is also great though.
Supposed to be 27-30% flow rate increase. I don't think it would affect low rpm range, but I'd expect more gains up top @@JupiterxBlues
I was pretty skepctical with the Kraken injectors aswell, its been more than a month since mine got tuned, and they work flawlessly. Also the guy is the nicest dude ever, always helped me out instantly.
Yeah their support is pretty solid.
What car did you use your injectors in? Would you mind sharing some info on how you got it tuned?
@@ZareefHuq NA Miata. My tuner was the one who figured out everything, sent him the info sheet from kraken, he had some idle problems at first because they're pretty overkill for my 260hp, but I have no info after that, just told me he fixed it. They run perfect still, cold and hot starts along with the idle, on a Speeduino.
STOP THE PRESSES!!!! You're showing the old Flyin' Miata manifold. They have NEW manifolds and down pipes that are supposed to flow way more than the old manifolds without changing the inlet/outlet location. That means you can upgrade the manifold without changing anything else. AND they're Cerakoted! Oh, and they're pounds lighter. Check them out.
Interesting! This turbo manifold is only like 8 months old.
@@NappMotorsports the new manifolds and downpipe have only been available since late summer, and I'm pretty sure that some of the other items in their kit have been keeping them from being in stock.
Having installed a kraken, and driven a kraken, I can say without a doubt the kraken kit is best. Especially paired with godly 1.6. Mines a low mount kit though, which is just superior to everything else. That's why Greg Peters had to copy my build
Thankfully he didnt copy the 1.6
@@BigBenlolz he wants to. One day he'll come back
lmfao
Low mount kraken FTW
1.6 ewww
I have a bit of both worlds and my current set up is the kraken turbo kit but with the flying Miata silicone hoses and I love it keeps everything tucked away and looks great in the engine bay :)
Hmm. Interesting but not a bad combo.
I have the same setup!
Recently installed my kraken kit. Only thing i would disagree, is kraken is a little less plug and play than flying miata for a couple of minor things.
Mostly if you have the 7 inch inter cooler the power steering cooling line is in the way and you ll have to unbolt it and tie rap it up.
For fitting the turbo into the car with the manifold mounted with rhe turbo in one assembly you dont need to cut the engine bay chassis you can just unbolt that side motor mount and jack the engine or have someone tug on the engine from passenger side to fit the manifold
Also if you took the option without ac but with power steering, (turbo pointing down)the power steering rubber hose at the top will need to be "uncomfortably" put out of the way or you'll have to snake around a new hose
You cant reuse any splash guards so you'll need to do new duckting.
And my kit came with a wrong size clamp for compressor outlet
Sometimes the kit will comme with missing things or uncorect things. The quality controll is not the best but bare in mind its a almost one man operation
Also the intake adaptor flange i got was jenkly made compared to what i saw in other kits felt like home made after thought which it was. You'll also need to make your own gasket for that.
The exhaust also seems to not be back putged for any readon? But it will be tough enough and its not like you will feed clean water trough it. Just dont be suprized if there's some crustiness inside the exhaust.
Other than that the kit is really nice, it looks like i dont like it but i really do!
You'll receive different fittings and hardware depending on what deals he has on stock at the time.
A lot of good info here!
I have the FM kits on both my 1.6’s. I’m in California so I have to deal with smog testing. Beside the fact these pass smog testing. The kits are just so complete. They supply every last nut and bolt you need to install their kit. The instructions are easy to follow. Installation ease is a 10/10 for the FM kits.
But they are so $$$$$
They are 100% super thought out and thorough which is very nice.
Any one other than me running the MK turbo kit? Has been good on my 1.8 for 3 years and about 15k miles with a few track days. I plan to reuse it ( to start) on my new build BP4W going in this winter. Old setup on a stock engine made 231hp with the cheap ebay turbo. Love the videos
MK is a solid budget option. Just haven’t seen them around much lately so I always struggle between FM and Kraken
For anyone that's curious, I would like to add that I have a kraken manifold and downpipe on a garret 2860rs no power steering no ac and I did not have to clearance the engine bay near the shock tower. It was a very close fit but I was able to make it work with the turbo pointed downwards, milage may vary depending on turbo size but it is possible
Nice! I do think I could’ve gotten away with the same, but I didn’t want to find out once it was installed.
Love these detailed comparison videos! I hope you do the same for Garrett vs Borg Warner EFR vs new Garrett G25! 🐌
Hmm. Thats a possibility. Just need to do my research.
Awesome video, love my kraken kit, for me I went with Kraken because of availability and pricing.
Good choice!
been meaning to buy a kraken. I have an MS3 and O2 sensor already...significant part of the cost taken care of.
Not too late for a personal christmas gift!
I KNEW you'd pick the Kraken!!!! Just a gut feeling right from the start of the vid
😂
I’ve been on a CX Racing kit for about 4 years now. Motor is pretty healthy still. On 8psi. The turbo takes a while to spool but nonetheless makes a reliable 210hp on a conservative tune. Really want to switch to a kraken kit in the future now. Thanks for the video!
Kraken is worth the upgrade!
Great comparison video. Really appreciate your take. I'd love to put a FM Turbo kit on my NA. Unfortunately, they've been out of stock forever.
Yeah, I heard they're working on another shipment though.
they did have a huge restock just recently on black friday, they said that they're nearing the end of their supply issue on some parts for the kit I believe.
def sign up for the email when they restock if you're looking into getting one.
Excellent video!
I have the FM kit and am building up an engine with a Kraken EFR kit in the shelf.
FM kit is awesome. I am in an emissions state and my FM kit passes without issue. Only complaints are the limitations of the Garrett 2560, and the challenges running the charge pipe from the turbo to intercooler.
The 2560 is an excellent turbo, well sized, but for those bitten by the more power bug it becomes a hurdle. The unique outlet on the 2560 limits doing an in-place upgrade, at least without modifying the turbo outlet pipe and potentially the downpipe. A G series super core using the 2560 exhaust housing may be an option, but I'm wary of mixing generations and any internal or external clearance issues that may cause.
In my FM application, the only route I could make for the charge pipe from the turbo to intercooler runs up against the bolt for the upper control arm. The sharp edge of the control arm was quickly cutting through that pipe. I armored it with rubber hose, which in that tight space was a challenge itself.
The Kraken kit I picked up will use the factory hole behind the driver's headlight, leaving me an intake problem I'll need to solve. More to come on how it comes together in my builder Miata. The 3" exhaust is gorgeous, i cant wait to finish building it and see how it runs.
Nice!
I love my kraken set up on my 1.6. I pieced my turbo kit together. I used the kraken top mount manifold with the 3 inch down pipe. Turbo is a GT2860R
That’s a fun setup!
Thanks so much for the thoughtful video. Didn’t really know I needed it until I started watching; I’m knee-deep in an Exocet build and am new to the Miata subculture, so trying to absorb as much as I can. Based on what I’m looking for, the FM kit is likely the direction I’m going to go, but it’s great to know there’s a 100% legit alternative.
And the new FM kit has a very similar manifold design to the kraken kit which is cool.
Very nice video! Been running a full Kraken exhaust on my 1.6
Awesome! Love to hear it.
I run a Kraken hotside (manifold + downpipe) along with the Kraken 3 inch v-band exhaust. I use FlyinMiata's cold side intercooler kit that fits up still nice and no kinks (I don't have AC and PS). I use FM turbo lines.
Nice
Would love to see one of these comparison videos for miata clutch kits on the market. There are a bunch of options and can be tough to determine which is best under what application.
I can do that. I won’t have options in front of me but I can speak to them.
Consider a follow up video comparing the advantages and disadvantages of a top mount setup and low mount setup
I second that!
Could do that for sure
Loving the uploads my guy. Very knowledgeable and educational. Keep up the great work
Thanks!
Loving the videos recently! You pack so much info into these 20 min videos. making me wanna turbo my car right now LOL
Do it!
Kraken high mount is best for track. Excellent accessibility when you need to work on the car. 330whp BP @15psi
🤙🏼
I think the FM kit is amazing, but their supply chain hasn't recovered since COVID, making their kits unobtainium.
I have heard that they are getting another shipment in shortly.
I hope so! I’ve had a FM kit on my NB1 and loved it, but I’m debating on Kraken or FM for my NA6, it’ll come down to who’s in stock at this point, but honestly I am leaning toward Kraken. Your video hits a lot of the critiques that I have with both kits, so I appreciate this!
Interesting on the clearance. I have a NA8 with kraken top mount and didn't have to clearance anything. 2560 turbo.
Hmm. Maybe it’s the lowering engine mounts I use.
@@NappMotorsports That would make sense actually. Looking at my car, if I dropped the engine an inch the turbine exhaust housing would be extremely close to that part of the chassis.
Great video as usual. This is making me feel pretty good about my recent purchase of a Kraken kit.
Good stuff
You can order the Kraken kit to bolt to stock exhaust location. 2.5" with 2 bolt flange. I have it.
Their standard downpipes do that, same with FM.
i had a supercharger and track dog intercooler in one of mine, loved the whine of the SC and the instant go, and was making 215rwhp at the wheels, but never could get the gremlins worked out and had idle issues.
It was stupid fast and i loved it, but i threw away the gas mileage benefits of the miata, mainly because nobody can keep their foot off the floor.
These days I stick with stock NA platform but would be interested in beefing up a NA engine to get more power
Building NA Engines is a very expensive feat
@@NappMotorsports indeed
Been watching your videos the past couple of days and subscribed tonight. In this video you said you weren't going into it, but can you please - in a future video - go into detail about the low mount Kraken kit?
I’d love to. I really want to build an engine with their low mount setup.
I ran kraken low-mount on my compound setup and it was great.. fitment and mounting it had some issues which i think is resolved now, the cast neck for the downpipe must be a dream (the stainless long downpipe was really not great to install) but everything has very good quality from my experience.. the lowmount demanded the cut on the side aswell as cutting of an ear from the block iirc .. but really awesome kit.. boost around 3-3.5 with a Garret 2860r gen2 turbo, full boost before 4k.. the full 3" exhaust was also awesome, with the magnaflow option it was even not that loud in NA-setup (with oem header), although i had to make an "adapter-pipe" to fit. I think FM is a bit more pnp, but if you want to develop your car further the kraken is really high quality.. haven't compared price though?
This didn’t include price. I thought about it but it’s more about what each kit offers functionally.
I definitely like these videos. I have a love for Miatas and definitely love my old school BP engine. Yes I'm naturally asperated, but I like the sound and torquey nature of them in a light car, and the fact that mine is still running after about half a million miles and still gets equal compression within 2 psi on all 4 cylinders. I love learning about all the things that can be done with this motor, and might actually think about doing something like this one day. Like I said, I still have a completely stock setup with no turbo. There's still a distributor on my exhaust cam. Not exactly a race car, but still plenty of fun to drive and the longevity is amazing. I've thought about maybe bumping it up to 200 horsepower one day, so this stuff is interesting to learn more about. Thank you for these awesome and informative videos.❤
Having fun with it is what matters the most
Would love to see a dyno comparison of these. Same engine just swapping the kits.
Same. Just a TON of work
Those are some beautiful engines 😍I'd like to know your thoughts on the Kraken low mount, that's the one I've been eyeing from my brief research.
I love the low mount setup, it just doesn’t serve most people because it makes it hard to run PS/AC with clean routing. It’s the most efficient setup in terms of spool and exhaust restriction, and if I was building a car for myself, that’s the kit I would use hands down.
Killed this!!
Thanks!
Really really good video. My question is: can I change the garrett gt2560r with gbc22-350 in kraken kit?
You sure can
What he said ^^
I missed it😂😂
Greetings from italy
What do you thing about GBC 22- 350. I still make my research about it. Is it better than GT 2560? And is it OK because is only oil cooled?
Awesome video, really enjoyed the comparison format! With properly sized turbo, would the kraken kit retaining ac/ps flow enough to support ~400whp?
Yeah that should be totally doable.
would love to know or possibly see what bolts you use when building ur motor and how you paint the block etc etc
I'm debating making a kit. It's McMaster-Carr and I just have bags of bolts in the garage that I pick from. Block painting is just VHT Engine Enamel from Autozone.
Stop debating nerd
@@NappMotorsportsMake a kit!! with different stages like valve cover only all the way to complete engine kit! would be cool and very marketable, jess up bolts (i think thats what theyre called charges a arm and a leg..
Thanks so much for doing this video.
When reaching for 300+ whp isn't the Garrett GBC22-350 a better option over the 2560R?
I saw a video where the owner swapped out his FM manifold for the Kraken and picked up around 23 whp.
I haven’t played with the Boost Club turbos yet, but I’d love to.
Love to see a video on one! Thinking of upgrading.
I didn't have to clearance anything in my engine bay when installing my Kraken top mount... Does this possibly have to do with engine mount height?
It could. I cut the bay just in case.
Nice video... May i ask what is needed to get the valve cover (and vvt bulge) to this polished finish? Is it done by a shop or by you. Also after polishing, is it clearcoated? Thanks again for all the nice videos you upload!
It’s powder coated
Got a kit by Dynotronics that works great. Yes, it was about 2X the intended price, but it all works. Uses a "bespoke" G25-550..not sure exactly what that means. Not sure what the AR of the turbine housing is. Either a .72 or .92. Water/meth system..right at 300 rwhp.
Sounds like a lot for 300hp
Any rumors when FM is going to have an NC turbo kit? I'd also love to know how their Voodoo management board works in between the stock ECU and how it works. With the Kraken kit, I think you can take it apart and clock it just like the FM if you want to run your IC pipe straight down. What ECU do you use on the Kraken?
FM is 100% working on a kit for the NC. Should be out this summer I hope. And yes you can clock all turbos, but with AC and PS, the kit is designed to go out the top.
First!
Loving the regular content!
Gotta keep pushing it!
Low Mount Kraken on mine, flows great but what a bastard to fit the piping. Those Funk Motorsports turbo jackets are the dog's though
Love these turbo blankets
Nice video! Do you have any experience/thoughts on the TD04 based kits that seem to be the popular thing over here in Europe?
I’ve never done one or seen one here so I can’t tell you for sure. I’d love to check one out though.
I currently own a FM S1 on my NA8 and I've gotten to the point where I'm thinking of purchasing the Kraken side mount w/ full 3" exhaust- just because there aren't a lot of options for pre-fab'd 3" systems. Really a bummer on FM's part and makes me think I should've went w/ Kraken from the beginning. I also get a bit of boost creep w/ their 2560R- but that may be because I'm in the PNW. Their intercooler piping also doesn't allow various BOV optioning- I get they're trying to be Carb leagal- but it should still be an option if someone's willing to dump 4k+ on their setup.
The full kraken exhaust is a super nice option, and it sounds great.
Any particular reason you don’t like the ISR turbo kit?? For the common Miata owner, and budget friendly kit, it’s a phenomenal kit, just curious if you have any experience with them
I’ve seen some fitment issues with the downpipe, and it doesn’t really fall into the budget range of these 2 turbos so it isn’t comparable.
Excellent video, great comparison. Thanks. Hey, if I am just looking for more power for my 1.6, what would you recommend outside of a turbo?
A turbo. Nothing else will do anything noticeable. I did do a exintake cam swap in my 1.6 and it made the midrange noticeably stronger but not anything huge.
VVT Swap babyyyyyyyy
I had a turbo 1.6 for the last 7 years and when looking for more power I found a VVT swap.
@@corifto1 I can't cringe over text, but I'm sorry for your loss. I'll pray for you.
@@str8slayn1 good thing I won’t be able to see you behind me haha
I have a full kraken kit, with a gt2554. My turbo outlet points down? With their supplied piping. No need for cutting the frame or anything. Have mazda comp engine mounts.
AC and PS? He might have revised the kit at some point.
@@NappMotorsports no AC. That might be it. Wished i had ac. 😂
How similar is the turbo mounting location between the two kits? I agree the FM intake is nicer, think it would work with the Kraken manifold?
I believe it’s extremely similar, and close enough that it might work. But no guarantees on my part.
The Kraken looks like it sits more toward the front of the vehicle. Does it? If so, how much?
No they're in the same spot more or less. Haven't measured but in person they're nearly identical.
Thanks for the video!
Any experience with the EFRs on the Kraken kit and how the driving experience compares to the Garrett options?
I don't, but you wouldn't really notice a difference. I've driven other chassis with EFR's and Garretts and it's not like one drives worse than another.
@@NappMotorsports thanks for the reply
Did you ever make/sell the muffler deletes for the kraken exhaust system?
What do you think about a fab9tuning manifold and down pipe pared with a Borg Warner EFR 7163 turbo on a stock motor with a ms3 pro on a 99 bp4w?
I’m not familiar with the Fab9 manifolds.
Thank you!
But how'd you get that german plate back there at the wall?
😅
Custom ordered online haha. Just a fake plate.
im planning on getting a low mount kraken with a gtx 2867R gen2, any light on similar setups would be much appreciated
The low mount is the best in my opinion, but it doesn't easily allow for AC/PS as the turbo inlet is right at te back of the pump.
Any experience in regards to quality and reliability of the manifolds in a road race environment? Cracking or warping?
What studs will the manifolds accept, 8mm or 10mm?
The studs are 8mm. I would recommend drilling them out to 10mm for track use, and using stage 8 locking hardware.
Anyone know if this motor is Mazda's take on the 4A-ge/cosworth BDA 1.6?
It's probably as close to it as you'll get from Mazda
Glad Kraken finally got their shit sorted out. I had a TERRIBLE experience with a few of their kits I installed for people a few years ago. Downpipes built wrong/didn't fit, intercooler piping that fouled on half the bay and didn't fit. IAC inlet and BOV flange welded on in the wrong spots, etc. Ended up having to modify the parts myself after Kraken told me I was "doing it wrong" and ghosted me.
Their new stuff is super nice
I have heard that RX-8 injectors are direct PnP for NA and NB, and they flow about 420-450cc. Considering that you can easily get these from a junkyard for basically free, and then get them flow tested by FIC for $60, would they be a reasonably good option for a 250hp build?
No. RX8 injectors were an "ok" option many years ago, but most of them are knock offs now, and the spray pattern is absolute garbage. You'll struggle to get a good idle, and driveability will be sacrificed as well. It's not worth saving the couple bucks.
Hi, I own a mx5 na and want to turbo it. What should I buy to get just over 200hp and keep the ac and power stearing?
Either kit is fine
Super informative , i live upstate NY and realize miatas are not for me , I am aware that 160 Hp in lightweight car is more then many would expect to be fun but wouldnt go Through the costs associated with taking advatnage of the tremendously low weight of these cars as platform as thetr is no free lunch with them if you live in a State like NY . Its a shame that there is no easy way to add power to these cars and by power I mean something around 200 -220 for a giant killer for back roads of which are endless up here that wpi;d also has very surprising levels of shove based on power to weight that 220 HP would afford before you end up so traction limited its not fun . Either way or whatecer model year the gross amount of power you can get for adding a turbo per $ ratio as new yorker is a bummer no matter how much fun the end situatiion is . If you dont have to pay somebody to wrench for you and can piece stuff together perhaps but its for people with a few bucks who are extremely comitted to this particular cars charms . Its a drag considering the potential to start with such low weight . But NY are the champs of beuracracy , restricting fun and ,making things inordinantly expensive . Such a shame mazda didnt make it easier some how , theres no real way around it . I enjoy slow cars fast and will have wait until current 181 HP variant is cheap enough and settle for a stock car with some minor tweaks and tires .
Very helpful to clue me in though and stop the wondering .
I mean it's pretty easy to just slap a turbo on a stock engine and make 200-250 whp with a standalone ECU.
Cheap, cheap, cheap, you only say cheap. Yeah go buy another car.
@@rafallo1333 yeah , I prefer value oriented person of limited means averse to living beyond those means but cheap in the common venacular cheap is accurate enough .
Will the 3” Kraken exhaust bolt up to the FM kit. With the new FM exhaust manifold, seems this might be the best performing setup.
Or, will the FM intercooler kit with silicon hoses, bolts right up to the Kraken kit?
Exhaust for Kraken is v band so I doubt it. And the Intercooler piping should fit.
I've heard the krakken flows a lot better if you're shooting for over 250hp
FM’s new turbo manifold is very similar to krakens.
Big question for me, could you buy the flyin Miata kit and then buy just the kraken downpipe elbow to give you the best of both worlds?
I don’t know that the turbos are in the same exact spot.
Unfortunately for 00-99 cars the FM kit isn't carb legal.
Ya win some ya lose some.
Yes I have a 95 Mazda Miata 1.8 NA and I want to try to do a turbo 300 horsepower where do I need to start at I have an engine block and a crankshaft that's it
I have an engine build video that shows you everything you'll need.
@@NappMotorsports how much would it cost me for you to build one
can't you get the FM kit and then just get the Kraken Vband exhaust? or mix/mash whatever from whichever?
For sure
FM kit still out of stock. I'm giving up. Think I'll just sell my 2003 SE. :)
I believe they have some showing up soon
Does yhe intercooler kit for kraken non AC/PS point down?
Yes I believe so
Is there a specific manual 5 or 6 speed transmission or transmission upgrade kit used to handle the extra power the engines are producing?
The 6 speed from an NB will handle 350-400hp
My thoughts on the FM kit I installed: 1) I would prefer an aluminum line from the turbo to the intercooler. The air is hotter that the engine bay, so an aluminum IC pipe would emit heat. Silicone from IC to TB makes sense, because you do not water to reheat the air. 2) I was not able to get the the silicone IC line turbo-IC to not touch the silicone coolant line. No problem so far, but they touch. 3) This one is my fault. I ported every part the air touches from the filter adapter sleeve to the exhaust, and also added a DW fuel pump and professionally cleaned injectors. It also has 84mm pistons and fancy valves. The Voodoo box is not able to perfect the fuel/air ratio with this set up and it is really rich below 4.5k rpms. It makes great power up high though. 4) The FM site shows a dyno graph of their kit making just shy of 200hp on a '99 car, so hp levels are model year dependent. 5) When the Voodoo box is reading boost, the system goes into open loop. This means you can't cheat and use the 01-05 injectors in a 99 for example-- though they work fine without boost. Overall, it is a great kit with great fitment and great customer service, but if you are trying to use the Voodoo box, don't change anything that significantly affects airflow or fuel flow.
Silicone actually suffers less from heat soak than aluminum, so FM would do better in the bay as silicone as opposed to aluminum.
What do you thing about GBC 22- 350. I still make my research about it. Is it better than GT 2560? And is it OK because is only oil cooled?
I’ve never used one but I’ve heard good things. Give the crew over at Bofi Racing a ring and they’ll talk to you about it though.
Kraken kit is also cheaper. Even with the full 3” v band exhaust.
You're not wrong.
Noob turbo installer here? These arent just bolt and play right? Like theres tuning and ecu work thats gotta be done too right?
Correct
What about standalone ec units? I built mine back in the day it’s a 95 I have a tec3 electromotive unit and I’m looking to do some upgrades! Does Holly EFI make a system for the Miata? What would you recommend?
Beer Money Motorsports, Megasquirt MS3PNP or Haltech get my vote.
@@NappMotorsports Have you done a video comparing standalone ecu’s yet?
How easily can these kits be modified for a mazda b2300 2.3l truck?
Zero idea boss
what do you do about tuning and the ecu
Best bet is to find the best tuner close to you who has experience with your ECU and a Dyno.
Too bad the FM kit is perpetually out of stock, more expensive, and the DIY kit option without their Voodoo Box fuel management was discontinued.
Yeah, although I heard they have another shipment on the way.
Will a coolant reroute will effect either setup?
A coolant re-route is beneficial on a normally aspirated engine, arguably essential on a boosted engine. Depending on the re-route manufacturer, the new radiator top hose might rub on the pipe going into the throttle body, but nothing serious.
What he said ^^ you should always run one on a boosted setup.
There very different kits
Also FM is actually emissions legal
Yeah he goes over that in the video. Both kits are great, but kraken flows so much better. You're not making 500+whp on a FM kit
Correct
Where did you order your kit?
Through Bofi Racing. Call them up if you have questions, they ship internationally and customer service is mint. Tell Andy I said hi.
Flyin miata is nice but man they never have any kits
Sold out for a reason though! Good parts never last.
Neither kit being twin scroll manifold is bad. Twin scroll makes turbo spool 500-1000rpm earlier and is not much different to cast manifold as. It’s a real shame/ bit of a waste.
Not really a waste. Properly sized turbos like these come on so fast. Also twin scroll manifolds have to be bigger and there’s packaging constraints with PS and AC.
I prefer the engine on the left!😂
🤣 I sure hope so!
the heroin turbo is better than the crack one
💀
Does the FM turbo kit even exist?
It's literally always out of stock.
I've heard they're working on another shipment
Rotrex supercharger time
Booo. Feels like a stock K series. Is better than a k swap though.
@NappMotorsports I would rather build a K series for 300 whp NA. If going that route. Or just buy a 4 piston racing crate engine.
BuT WhAT aBouT IsR??? Lol
It being emissions compliant is probably the reason why my wife will ok it. Lol
Emissions compliance is HUGE for a lot of people. Impressive that they jumped through all the hoops to make a kit that’s compliant.
@@NappMotorsports indeed. Oh and they use a "voodoo" box. Essentially an old school piggy back, this way they can retain the OEM ECU.
We Prefer kraken
We agree