What it costs to build a Miata Engine
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- What does it cost to build a BP engine for your Miata? I'm going to take you through the dirty details that nobody talks about when it comes to building one of these engines to handle some real power.
Website: www.nappmotorsports.com
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Making a Miata fast? Sounds silly
Definitely not anything a sane person would do.
Born yesterday? You can't even think the word Miata without knowing it has a detuned engine for safety considering its power to weight. Notoriously slow. But they are everywhere and cheap. It isn't like people are really buying a Miata with the intent on making it a race car, more like they have one, or bought one and realize it isn't meeting potential. Thereby a huge aftermarket is born and thriving. K-swaps, 6 cyl Mazda swaps, stock engine builds, LS swaps even. This has kind of become the American way. Deep seated AC Shelby Cobra 427 desires. But way cheaper. We also don't plan well, so we do things a little at a time and want more and more. This dude is for the second attempt after someone already dumped way too much money into one slowly. It failed, and now want to do it right.
Seems cheap. FInd out way too late it wasn't that cheap and wish they had just bought that other car. lol
At least this dude is going to help you get realistic about the costs. Yeah so you build the engine for about 8k. You still have to spend way more but yeah this is where the insanity just hits hard because you are already in deep. lol
@@colubrinedeucecreative Thanks for all of the valuable information, my viewpoints have changed. Maybe someday I will try to build a fast Miata after all
@@TheCarPassionChannel LOL Wait, do you already have a Miata? If not, even if one gets given to you, for gods sake no. That wasn't my message at all there. lol People start small and get into them too far. They are beyond hope. If you want to spend 20 grand fast might as well put it on a S2000 or something made for the track.
I mean I know you were joking but there is a huge market out there. This guy is going to get tons of subs.
@@colubrinedeucecreative You should sometimes check out who you are replying to, just sayin...
Currently building a high RPM NA 1.6L with ITB's with my son. It's been the best father-son bonding experience. Both of us have little to no experience. Just want to give you a massive thanks for all the fantastic content and insights in your videos, this one included. It's videos like these that help us power through the gaps in our knowledge and spend the most amazing time together in the garage wrenching and bonding.
My dad passed away before we could do anything like this together, I pray the memories with your kid stick with him for the rest of his life! Im living vicariously through you, may the build be strong and bond stronger
Funny... I have a 90 miata in my yard that I wanted to do a 1.8 swap on and a high RPM ITB build for my 11 yr old son. He's not into cars near as much as my 2yr old son. I doubt I could coax him into doing the build with me. I was thinking aluminum flywheel and aluminum rods. I want to overbore to around 2.0L with 11:1 pistons. And yes, a Fluidampr harmonic balancer. I'm also not a fan of the ATI balancer. I have a core. I just need it machined to get started. The car has been sitting since around 2020.
Best of luck.
@@christopherlowery855 There's an amazing thing that happens to boys when they turn 16. They get REALLY interested in two things. One of those things is cars. Some dad-to-dad advice: let the car sit for a few more years. Building a car together brings so many proud papa moments.
@@Glissskate So sorry Glisskate and thank you. Aspire to be the best dad you can be in your father's honor.
@@robs993 appreciate that.
It might come down to this. I think my turbo in the NB is leaking oil into the exhaust. It might be time to upgrade to a Garrett anyway. $1600 towards a new turbo in a car I drive, or rods/pistons on a car I don't?
Humm...
Thanks for the tip,
Cheers.
doing calc 2 homework and watching Napp at 8am is the best
Ahh I don’t miss calc. Best of luck!
Great breakdowm of costs. For reference, this is my build (in The Netherlands) for my 1999 10AE NB with a 1.8 VVT swapped engine. My reasoning was doing everything myself (besides machine work) and find second hand parts. Result after dyno was 157 whp and 140 wheel torque (ft.lbs). The VVT engine (75k miles) came shipped from the UK. Stock bottom end still. Work included a 1mm head shave (over 11:1 compression), Volvo valve springs, 3 angle valve job, 4-2-2 Cobalt exhaust manifold, OEM cat and midpipe, Cobalt axle back exhaust, OEM flattop intake manifold, ITG carbon intake, SPS 1.6 clutch, OEM 1.6 flywheel (shaved and balanced to 6kg) and a ME442 ECU. Total cost for the engine swap was around €4k, including the engine. For me, perfect and reliable setup for autocross and road courses, with high torque and low down power.
this is great for people who are looking into going down the rabbit hole. wish this was so clearly explained before i built my 400hp mx5 so i knew exactly what i was getting myself into other than forums saying "try to price up the entire build, then double it"
its a lot of money but the level of return you get is crazy
Yeah nobody likes to talk about the actual costs involved.
yes id absolutely love the engine parts in a box. i'm not too specific on what combination of parts work well together but i do have the ability to assemble the long block. great idea
Working on it! Hoping to have it this weekend or early next week.
@@NappMotorsportsI am also interested in this.
Pretty spot on pricing! I work at a machine shop in North Georgia. About to go through a spare for myself. Even for myself, not cheap. At all. Your pricing is beyond fair 👌
Thanks man!
Working with you on the build was awesome, can't recommend you enough. Happy to see everything working out for you since you went full time.
Thanks Jeremy! It was a pleasure. Can’t wait to see that on track!
Very interesting. In my youth I lived in Rochester and worked at Dorschel Buick for 3 years. I drove an MGB at the time. I drove it across the US and sold it in Vancouver. Then I returned to UK. I had a string of RX-7's and for 20 years now I have been driving MX-5's. I currently have two NA's, 150bhp and 200bhp BBR Turbos and a standard NB 1600. I've enjoyed watching your video.
Very cool!
Great info! Learning alot! Watching your videos and taking down notes for the process of possible engine/trans swap from a cheap $350 rusty 2003 Miata to a "mostly" stock 1992 Miata $1800 barn-find.
Glad to help
I CANNOT wait to see Corey driving this again with a huge smile on his face. This car is gonna be awesome.
I will see you and him at MATG!
Yay!
Me, drive a Miata more than twice a year?!
Great video. I hope to build a VVT motor for my NA 1.6 project. Thank you for sharing so much info in this series. Ruthless how much it costs to have an engine built *properly* but I do believe you get what you pay for. Last thing is why are VVT engines so much in the states??? We can get them for around £300 and maybe up to £500 for a very low mileage unit. Crazy.
Good luck with your business and please keep creating content
Supply and demand over here.
Just received my brake master brace and absolutely love it. Beautiful design and impactful!! Thank you for all your hard work on these cars keep the grind going!!!❤
Thanks man!
I will be at MATG! I'll be in a red NA with Hot Wheels livery. I've been running your cobra intake on my VVT swap, and it's been awesome! A bit fragile, as it's been cracked for a while, but it's getting replaced with a TDO 2560 setup early next year. Can't wait to see you up there!
See you there!
Awesome videos!! You do a great job in building fast Miatas!! I love your detailed work to the upgraded engine bay in your video! I have FIAT 124 Spider with heavily modified bolt ons. I guessing my 1.4 is pushing around 220 HP. I want be in the 300 HP range. I would like to do engine internals in the future. Can you do this type of work or sent me in the right direction?
Hey! I haven’t really done much work on the new chassis so I’m not familiar with it.
damn thats some spicy machine shop price. very very fortunate to have the machine shop i have around my area and how good they are to me i couldnt imagine paying that much but you pay for what you trust.
It’s a lot of work. A refresh on 83mm pistons and stock main studs would be significantly cheaper.
Building engines definitely isn't a cheap venture. I am a bit north of your build price with upgraded cams, valve springs retainers, cam gear. Also upgraded Crank (all Maruha parts) I almost shy away from telling others the build cost and the expected power output N/A, but the future plan is Force induction. I can't stress enough how valuable a trusted machine shop is and seeing other friends having their engines destroyed due to bad machine work. I am very fortunate to live close-ish to Chikara Motorsports who did my build.
Nice! Chikara does great work
@NappMotorsports absolutely next level! Also your work is quite amazing as well! Really loving your content!
I’ve got an NB1 engine that needs a rebuild. Planning to turbo as well, would love an engine build package with all parts!
Coming very shortly, worked on it all weekend to get the details down. Hoping to list it this coming weekend.
Thank you for all this. I appreciate your video on building too. I have a somewhat beater 91 1.6 that I'm looking to freshen up over the off season that I use on the track only. Going to be my first time assembling and plan to use that video. Hope one day can come to you as a customer too!
If you're around Florida, the 1.6 donor from this car is available
Awesome! I’ll be here when you’re ready!
Currently saving for a SOOOPER clean nb to buy. Then hopefully saving for your turbo kit next 🎉
Awesome!
Thats a really good deal. When we built Rhys engine last year, assembling it ourselves was around $10k, that is machine work, all forged internals, all new seals, cams pistons, rods etc. I also spend a couple of hundred dollars for specialty tools. It was very stressful, and I had a really anal friend that had all the measuring tools to put it together. If I ever need another one built you bet I'll be using you to build it for me! See you at MATG!
See you there!
Would be awesome if you offered a head only package as well. I feel capable of doing the bottom end work, but all the shimming and valve seating seems like another level of skill. Is that something you would be able to quote?
Yup! Doing one right now. Send me an email and we can chat. Nappmotorsports @ gmail
2 back to back videos letsgo! Machining prices are brutal over there yo, I just picked up a decked, bored, honed block and a decked, fully checked/measured head for like 400.
That’s a steal. Hopefully it’s quality work!
See you at MATG!! Enjoy the drives
You too!
19:20 "I hate skunk2" haha - I ordered the NB miata intake manifold and throttle body, received a K20A2 manifold and NB throttle body, when I contacted them, the initial reply was basically "I don't believe you" but after a dozen pictures and a few weeks of waiting/shipping, they corrected the issue.
They’re such a bad company. Just China parts with their label
Well i dont feel so bad now were im around 20k into my 400hp 1.7l (1.6 bored 30 thou) build 😅.. but i still have alot to do b4 i feel im finished .. (you know how it is with the forever projects lol) ... always great and informative content brotha ..much respect ... peace and love brothas , keep it radical , stay safe , and build on ... l8z my miata brethren.. ps yes i plann to be at MATG this year 🤞🏽
Project cars are never truly finished.
@@NappMotorsports ain't that the truth my brotha 💯 😆 . Much love and respect brothas .🤙🏽🤘🏽✌🏽🏎💪🏽🐌🔥
You're starting to become a Miata Jesus but without the long hair. Legit content! Gospel to the people!
Would that make me the anti Jesus? Lol thanks man
@@NappMotorsports not at all 😆😆 Just happy to see good and correct info being taught(gospel). Looking forward to the ITB built head and block breakdown 🤙
Good stuff man!! Was gonna send it on the built engine.. but I decided to get the car painted instead. I've already got the car making around 250whp - enough for now, wanted to make it pretty after spending so much time and money on mechanicals! The engine WILL be coming though! Hopefully I'll see you at MATG - this year is my first year and I'm STOKED! Especially seeing that Mazda Motorsport is going now too!
Thought your name looked familiar! I’m here when you’re ready, and make sure you catch me at the gap, I’d love to meet.
@@NappMotorsports As would I! Sounds like a plan to me, I’ll see ya there!
That’s crazy, I fitted new Volvo style springs from a supplier in the uk and one broke after 32 miles!! I wonder if many more have had this? The valve hit my fresh wiseco piston this bend the new super tech valve, I had to strip the head and get it checked, the piston had a ding but was good thank god. The supplier replaced the springs FOC and the super tech rep managed to get me one replacement valve. It still cost time, head gasket new valve from the US, seals and coolant. Oh joy😂
Thankfully I’ve only heard of it happening, I haven’t actually experienced it before I made the switch.
It was heart breaking after months of building, lucky it didn’t do too much damage and went back together well.
Have you done any electric water pump installations?
Patrick Cowan Jr. here on RUclips makes a billet machined water pump replacement mount that has a direct opening into the block, plus locations for the cambelt tensioner pulleys. I'm using a Davies Craig water pump along with the mount. I believe you can drive it off a megasquirt or use the stand-alone controller it comes with.
I haven’t bothered with one yet.
Excellent content. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Again thank you for another very informative video. How building just the engine head? Would you be interested in that?
A NB1 head you install the supplied Maruha cams, SUB's, valve springs and stock sized Supertech valves with bowl blend and 3 angle valve job.
That’s definitely something I can handle! Send me an email and we can get a conversation going. Nappmotorsports @ gmail.
@@NappMotorsports I just need to order the valves and springs.
Yes pleaseeeeeeeeee ❤ feel better
Thanks!
Man I wish you put this video out over a year ago when I sent my engine off to a terrible builder. I got the engine back and idek if it’s built well. He was also very secretive about a lot of things so I’m worried it might blow up 😭
Bro what??? He’s secretive about things? It’s your fucking engine, and it’s not like NB Miata’s are some sort of dark magic. Have you gotten Dyno ###s or noticed any difference?? It sounds like you advertised that you couldn’t tell a built engine from a stock one internally and he took advantage.
Sorry! Thats always the risk with shops which is why I try to be very transparent. I have been on the other side of the relationship and know what I don’t want, so I do my best to not do that to my customers.
@@ratatatatata5290 yeah he was a little bit idiotic and when I delivered the engine it had full accessories. He threw most of those accessories away because they were in “bad condition” so now I have to source more parts. And he didn’t show many any proof of this or anything. However I do believe he used all the parts I had ordered but I’m just not 100% sure he built the engine correctly
@@NappMotorsports Yeah, I will say he did everything for fairly cheap ($2700 in total) but that could be reflective of how bad his customer service and build is
Do you happen to have a build in a box for an OEM 1.6L shortnose rebuild?
We have one started. If you want to email me I can finalize one for you.
Nappmotorsports @ gmail
Enlightening. Maybe one of your videos will feature an NA 1.8L build (non turbo). Would you still stick to using forged rods and pistons? Anywhere from 150 to 200 WHP is all some of us are interested in. Looking forward to seeing you at Fontana Village.
Filming an ITB NB 1.8 build as we speak!
@@NappMotorsports I will be interested in seeing that one for sure!
Awesome. I had been watching miata k swap videos and wondered about stock engine builds. Now I see just what it can do which is interesting. I don't think I remember you speaking about ECU and all of that. I would assume you can't just use stock stuff right? Is the chassis really made for racing? Or does a ton need spent on stiffening and suspension as well? Subbed
Chassis upgrades are always a good idea, wheels/tires/brakes mainly.
As far as ECU goes, you’ll need a standalone like a BeerMoneyMotorsports, Megasquirt, Haltech, or Link.
Awsome that's cool not that bad
👍🏽
I work in racing and always wondered about the E Production engines. Often NA 1.6’s built making 230hp at the flywheel, with short service life and designed to run restrictors. I would often hear quotes of 20-30k for the motors for top SCCA national builds.
Wonder what it would take to build a 1.8 NA that ran exclusively on e85 for the “street”
I mean an NA build for e85 could literally be a stock engine. Unless you’re talking high compression which you’d actually need the e85 for.
@@aygwm very high compression
Yeah real race engines are an entirely different animal
What if I want to hit 400hp on a stock block 1.6 with a Holset Hx35 tractor turbo my dad gave me?
Make sure you use an FMU and fuel cards on that bad boy
That will work mint.
I would be down for the Engine Build Box. I would be the first to purchase!
I’ve been working on the details all weekend! Hoping to have it listed by this coming weekend. I’ll post a video about it when I do.
Awesome video! I'm still trying to figure out if I want to go down this rabbit hole. Just curious, do you have any experience/thoughts on building an engine with the trackdog racing rotrex supercharger kit as opposed to a turbo?
The engine in the thumbnail is actually getting used with a Rotrex C30-94 on track from the fine crew over at TDR
Have you had any problems with the BE oil pump pressure relief valve sticking open? The forums seem to be pretty scared about that
I’ve had one be a little sticky on cold start, but fine once the engine warms up. Otherwise they’ve all been great.
Would you be so kind as to drop some info on "why" you dislike the skunk intake manifold (and throttle body?)? Thanks - they do seem to be a simple upgrade, and I can get one..
The intake manifold is the only OK part. I don’t like skunk2 as a company. Their customer service is terrible and they genuinely just exist to make money, and have no stake in offering a good product. The throttle body sucks because it gets stuck, and the cable actuator/spring snaps off so frequently that it’s just not worth the risk, especially when you can get a better one on eBay for 2.5x less.
What are the best gaskets to use? I heard another channel saying that some generic gaskets can fail prematurely.
OEM only with the exception of cometic for the head gasket.
Have you seen the supercharger available with the trackdog kits? Given the low torque Output I wonder if with that kit and ethanol someone could make 300hp on a stock vvt? Keep crushing it l👍
Looks like they took it off. There’s a new c30-94 model that makes more power. They advertise on their website the ability to produce a little over 300hp at only 225tq.
The orange engine in the thumbnail is running that setup on track. Looks promising, idk about stock block though even with the low torque output.
I’ve considered taking one of my spare engines and throwing a set of rods in it with stock pistons and a dingleberry hone. I’m curious what you could get done being dirt cheap using common tools. I’m not sure why though, I have a built car already. Just be cool to document for everyone else
Thanks!
You bet!
I have a Mazdaspeed Miata, and want to be able to rev to 8k rpm and have 450whp with low WTQ. What motor would you suggest i build for my goals?
You’d want to do the big boy with billet mains, upgraded valvetrain, and better cams
@@NappMotorsports oh i completely understand it will need to be built, but should i get another MSM motor to build? Maybe the vvt motor? Or just a basic Bp4w?
What are your thoughts on the Fast-Forward Supercharger kit?
I have no experience with it so I can’t really give any thoughts.
Cleaning out the oil galley is so critically important… ask me how I know. 😢
Painful mistake that you only make once.
Where can I find one of those front support bars in front of your intercooler?
Doryoku / Charlie Moua sells them.
Dont go with walton manifold crap welds
The fact is you have to brace the downpipe. Also the new manifolds are CNC collectors so they’re stronger and hopefully less prone to cracking.
Guys im buying an NB next week. This will be the first project car I ever buy... hell the first car im buying with my own money, and I was thinking to swap the engine but... i drove it the other day and something about k swapping it feels so... mundane. I would like to build the engine to do what it was designed to do just... faster and better so to speak. Hearing sweet sweet turbo noises wouldn't be bad here... but are there any first mods you guys recommend? I'm going to have a bit of money left over so I wanted to get a quick release first and a good wheel and then eventually get a CCP fastback hardtop for it. Where should I go from there?
Edit: It's a 1999 and everything in it is functional. Even came with an aftermarket radio and the roof has a hole in it (although its patched but kind of leaks and there is wind noise on the highway.)
Wheels, tires, 949 Tecna coilovers, AWR front sway bar and endlinks. That will be the best transformation outside of a built engine. Don’t bother with a quick release.
so would it be more cost effective to do a turbo kswap or a booster vvt? thats where im at right now.
You’re going to be in the same ballpark range by a couple thousand probably. In my opinion, built BP is less of a headache.
I personally have like 20k on my Da and still not running 😅
Oof
For the cost of building a high hp motor, I try to steer people towards engine swapping as you get much more bang for your buck.
It’s really not though. You’re paying the same and engine swaps have their own fleet of issues.
@@NappMotorsports Agreed, engine swaps has their own issues, but the bang for buck is still towards engine swaps.
All the supporting mod (think rear end for example) for a 400whp+ miata is the same for an engine swapped miata so that price tag basically equals out.
You're at roughly 5-6k for the long block, not considering turbo bits, or 10k if they get it from you. If you add turbo parts, add another ~3-4-k
Just talking about engine bay parts, you can drop in an LS for around 3k + another 5,5k for a ls3 crate engine. This puts you at the same price if not a smidge higher compared to your 10k.
Not saying don't build an engine as some people just like the BP engines and the simplicity of a turbo miata build, but the value is in a swap
More NC content when???
When I have a free minute to work on my own car 😭
How did you know I was sitting down
Sensed it
Kupo!
👍🏽
If you call this rambling, then we love to listen to you ramble.
Then I guess I’ll film more rambling content!
It costs way too much (might as well k swap)
Having k swapped, you’re going to be in it for the same amount of money to go turbo, not including the k swap headaches.
Just buy a bp for 200
This is a BP and they don’t make 200.
@@NappMotorsports they cheap as hell
18k...well, that explains why the exterior is looking meh. All the money is under the hood...as it should be. Cheers.
Make it fast first, then make it look good. The whole car is getting repainted.