I stumbled upon this because I left “Cyberpunk 2077” out of my search and ended up with results for just “bikes ranked”. I don’t know who this guy is, or why anyone needs to know specifically how he personally ranks the bikes he has owned - but I like it. That is work. I haven’t even watched the video yet - but bro… This comment has reached me by mistake, and it still made me laugh from across Internet dimensions. I’m suppose to be mixed into a gaming algorithm 😂
@@NorCalCyclinggood review, I enjoyed the video 💯 I like the oldskool equipment and carbon bikes myself, I use a 1999 us postal trek 5500 with 10 speed instead of 9and I love it, fits like a glove I much prefer it to the modern stuff, it's lightweight, reliable, nice geometry and very comfortable and competitive with today's standards I feel, new subscriber from 🇨🇮👌
The Venge is such a beautiful bike - it really has a soul. I could imagine if I was a young teen and into road bike racing, I would put up a poster of it on the bedroom wall.
I used to look at bikes all the time trying to decide which one was the coolest and ever since I saw the Venge I couldn’t believe how good it looked. Close second would be the cannondale system six
Very enjoyable review. Nice job. What interested me was the criteria and how you felt about each bike. I don't own and don't plan to own any of these bike, but the 30 mins went by in a flash.
I can vouch for the Winspace T1550. I'm not particularly loaded but managed to scrape together about £3k over a year to replace my aging SL4 Tarmac. So the build was a maximum bang-for-your-buck race road bike challenge. Shim 105 Di2, Hunt Carbon 50 wheelset, Wheels BB86 thread-though, Pirelli P-Zero 28mm tyres. Moved saddle and pedals over and bought an FSA 110 ACR stem and Pro Vibe handlebar for maximum adjustability. Looks beautiful but minimal and easy to maintain. You can probably go 2nd hand and get a Madone, Tarmac, Addict or TCR. But if you want something brand new with a warranty and a bit of design maturity, good carbon quality with clever design considerations at a good price Winspace really is compelling. I've struggled to find many criticisms from reviewers so far and their factory tour was remarkable... which lead to my purchase.
Big winners: Venge- Specialized was ahead of the curve with this one. Winspace 1550 - for the money, it's holding it's own in A tier. Great video, enjoyed hearing your thoughts!
For the money, I love my 2020 TCR advanced pro. Paid less than $3000, with Ultegra mechanical and carbon wheels. The rims could be wider at 19.4 mm internal, but they are carbon. The bike fits me well and is very comfortable. Affordability and a reputable brand backed by a reputable brick and mortar bike shop, which is rare in this sport.
built Aethos frame up with SRAM Red, Roval Rapide Cockpit, Zipp 303 Firecrest... of course it's light...climbs, handles and descends as good or better than SL7, fast and aero on flats, very comfortable with multiple centuries each year, and so easy to maintain
"stock configuration" makes me smile. Almost by definition on a race bike one changes stuff as one goes along, even if just wheels and gearing. I'm no longer racing, but my current "A" bike is a custom frame built up with the collection of components I had on my previous bike, then gradually upgraded to other components here and there. So "stock" is an elusive concept.
For the headset top cap, the right engineering term is "compression set". Initially the pre-load will apply a force to the cap, this compresses the cap by some mils (strain), and is met with an equal opposing force from the cap on the stem, resulting in stresses in the cap material - proportional to the pre-load. With plastics, over time you get what is called "stress relaxation", where the amount of stress in the material decreases, but the amount of strain stays constant. So you end up with a decreased pre-load, and eventually no pre-load, resulting in a rattly headset. To fix this, you just have to apply the pre-load again, and compress the cap again by an additional amount of mils - then the cycle continues, until you get to a point where the geometry of the cap no longer resembles what you started with.
@@NorCalCycling but wait this makes no sense to me. Preload is just that, PREload. Once you have the headset loaded the tightening of the stem should be holding the headset in place. What is different about this setup that that doesn’t happen??
@@cehlers41 normal stem. the headset cap is under the stem and gets squeezed during preload, but eventually deforms. Even though the stem doesn’t move that cap is no longer providing compression on the bearings
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Ever since I 1st started watching your channel I've wanted you to make this bike comparison video. I greatly appreciate your unflinching honesty in all of your review videos. It helps us enthusiasts for whom spending $2500 on a bike, plus extra for wheels and components means something.
My two bikes are a 2022 Scott Foil RC (last gen) and a 2023 Winspace T1550 with mostly SRAM Force D2 and I can say the WInspace T1550 is a maybe a tad too niche in that it's not the lightest (17.25lbs with pedals, cages, mounts, sensors, heavy saddle, tubeless) and it is almost unforgivingly stiff, but for the money the only bike that really compares is a Canyon but those come with cockpit fit issues where you are paying about $1000 more once you factor in the $100 shipping fee, $230 Pace Aeroo drops, and $200 Pace T Bar for a Canyon Aeroad SLX Ultegra Di2. In contrast my fully built T1550 Disc Force D2 with a Red chain and cassette and 2023 Hyper D45 with GP5000 S TR, SWORKS Mirror Saddle, BBInfinite one piece Ceramic BB and and Ceramic Oversized Jockey wheels cost $6000. Now for some the $1000 to go with a big name brand even though it's direct to consumer is well worth it because as you can see the resale value of Chinese direct to consumer bikes isn't great and some people probably are still skeptical on customer service.
Yesterday I was watching documentary about Ed Snowden. Today I was looking at the thumbnail and thinking, why the hell Snowden is ranking his bikes 😂😂😂
If I remember correctly, the CL50's were supposed to be tubeless compatible, but Sagan had a massive blowout jumping up onto a curb close to the launch date of the wheel set. Rather than deal with a potential recall or a delayed launch, Spesh just removed the sticker from the packaging. I don't remember if Sagan was just unlucky or if there was a flaw in the manufacturing
ya, teammates ran them tubeless and didn't have problems, it just doesn't fill me with confidence when the manufacturer/engineers aren't backing that technology.
Love my Soloist. Rode a Emonda for years. Got a chance to ride a Soloist at camp and was sold. Selling the Emonda. One thing though that does not get as much press as it deserves is geometry and fit. The Soloist was so much better for me geometry and fit wise. For many of us, a bike that fits can move a bike from a personal B class to a personal S class.
Jeff, something else is going on with your Soloist if you’re needing to constantly add preload cap displacement in order to maintain preload on the bearings. At the loads that a headset experiences, the plastic topcap has more than enough surface area to not undergo plastic deformation. If that were the case, you’d be experiencing the same thing on the Tarmac and Foil (and probably others too) which also have plastic topcaps.
One thing I'll say about the SL7 is that, at least mine anyway, it is very, very stable at high speeds. Well, I don't go much above 35mph these days, but it feels confidently planted, not affected by crosswinds too much, and goes exactly where it's pointed. That's S-tier for me! Maybe it's all the big, aero headtube energy, or something. I had an aluminum Allez Sprint for a while, that bike felt like it was actively trying to hurt me :D
Wow, great video, not boring as it kept me at the edge of my seat as you were spot on in all the details. I've been a professional mechanic since the stone age in 1967. In 1978 I quit road-racing 400cc production motorcycles to become a Cat-4 on a bottecchia. A year later I got me KOGA Miyata Aero Team, which landed me in Cat-1 in less than 1.5 yrs racing for Team Carson (So Cal). I too focused on wheels using ARAYA TiTa Ace titanium rims and was the first to use wide 27c Clement Del-Mundo tubulars. That bike was Amazing at high descending speeds as I used to speed balance my race wheels and would leave everyone in the dust descending major mountain roads. Anyways, I can see you descend pretty fast too, so you should learn to speed balance your wheels as you will go much faster and your bike will feel like it's on rails... Anyways, I'm a fan. Thank You, Dan Sotelo
@@inntw4889 I have one. A 2012 Specialized Roubaix SL3 with rim brake and no future shock that Cancellara won the Paris Roubaix race on. I work as a mechnical engineer in design and there is a concept. The concept is...'sometimes' a Mona Lisa is created. Everybody is astounded by its overall 'correctness'. Then...designers of course make a living by changing things and trying to upsell the next model as an improvement which is the basis for marketing and company profit but no, Mona Lisa's are rarely recreated. Only way to go is down. Sometimes, after a period of floundering, there is even a return to a tried and true theme...like a threaded bottom bracket after a decade of screwing the public with every adaptation of press fit under the sun. Many believe the Venge was such a bike with uncanny speed and stiffness for its level of aerodynamics. In fact, I ordered the Roubaix SL3 frameset after reading all the reviews gushing about it and Cancellara winning on it sealed the deal. Extremely light, snappy flex and stiff enough out of the saddle. Best 'all arounder' I have ever ridden even though it may not make Jeff's list of great criterion bikes as Jeff is a higher watt rider than me but not Cancellara. There are other great bikes as well. And of course Specialized ruined the Roubaix with a stiffer rear triangle which destroyed the wonderful ride quality with the SL4. The rest is history. I would never own a boat anchor heavy modern Specialized Roubaix.
Great video! I’m building up the new winspace T1550 gen 2 with ultegra di2 and magene db508 wheels for racing next season. Looking forward to racing on my first ever aero bike
Great video Jeff, I’m moving from my fully aero Ribble Ultra SLR and building a Soloist with SRAM red and Enve 4.5s, can’t wait to until it’s done, I think it’s the most underrated all rounder bike out there which is strange considering how good it looks aesthetically and the premium brand of Cervelo
In talking to P12 racers at Grit this year, the Winspace is pretty universally liked as a race bike. Price isn't a factor on Jeff's list, but it is for everyone else and the Winspace is basically half the price of everything else here. Also, the new version has a T47 BB and uses more advanced manufacturing processes.
Without these things you mentioned about the Foil would it be above the Tarmac Sl7 and the Venge in terms of stiffness and handling? Is there something like too stiff of a bike for you, especially on bad roads where you feel it actually cost you Watts. Also do you differentiate between the different stiffnes of a bike lateral vs the others?
Very helpful Video, confirms my own thoughts 100% . Puts my Evo where I expected and my old felt and TCR too 😮! Thinking 🤔 of buying a new bike so very timely! Thanks 😊
Proud to be Soloist owner....lets Go!!!! (top cap is easy to fix, get the R5 top cap it fits and pair up with Cervelo Stem ST31 (carbon) or other Vision one piece handlebar
Great video Jeff! 2013 I had the a Felt F1 then 2 years are team went to Focus Izalco! My friends would always ask where’s your Felt. I would say the Felt was nice but now it’s time to get Focus!
I started on 2009 Fuji Roubaix, the Apollo then Cervelo R3...now I have the Focus Izalco Max 9.7 - I think the new Focus bikes are very different to the old ones. Worth a comparison... to me it is a do it all bike.
I don't race but I started riding in 2006 and my journey mirrors yours somewhat. My first bike (a Fuji Newest 4.0 that was $400) was stolen from the garage along with my wife's bike. I took the insurance proceeds and bought a 2008 Fuji Roubaix Pro which I rode for 11 years. Shimano Ultegra mechanical, rim brakes, carbon fork. I upgraded the wheels to some decent Mavic aluminum ones with 23mm tires. I did not maintain that bike well outside of getting an annual tune up during the last 6 years I owned it. I gave it to my brother in law who still rides it. My first carbon bike was a used 2012 Wilier SR1 DB that I bought in 2019, with a frame that was one size too large. It came with Sram double tap (which I came to like) and mechanically actuated disc brakes with hybrid calipers. I learned A LOT about bike components, bike fit, doing my own repairs, tire sizes and compounds, as well as riding metrics on that bike. I then sold it and got a 2022 Trek Domane SL6. I had bought a set of Bontrager 50mm carbon wheels that I used on the Wilier (which I sold with the Fulcrum 4 aluminum wheels I bought it with) that I swapped out for the Bontrager 25mm aluminum wheels that were standard on the Trek. I enjoyed the Domane well enough. I bought it the day I had knee surgery and figured that the excitement of a new bike would push me to train on the other side of of it. I was right. It was a good bike but sluggish when compared to Wilier. One day I did a repair on the Fuji I'd give my brother in law and was struck by how damn heavy the Domane was. I just sold the Domane and bought an 8th gen Madone Sl6. I've upgraded the rear hub on the Bontrager 55's so they are snappier (DT Swiss 350's, I did that while still on the Domane as I realized the hub on the Bontrager 25mm's were quicker) and I'm finding the Madone to better. Turns out I like race geometry when it is sized right. Thanks for sharing your journey and rankings.
Kind of nice. All those bikes, different feels, helps keep things fresh and new. Plus they last longer when you ride a variety. I'm the same except old school. Bianchi 928, Cervelo RS, Daccordi Vinci (custom) not sure I'll ever be able to afford your high standards butin happy and appreciate your videos
You should try riding a Dogma F. For many years I thought that you are paying only for the logo, but after one mountain ride with many technical corners,... I fell in love with it.
This is the realization I have had lately, a lot of the guys I race against in the 1/2s are like you, racing in that category longer than I have been racing.
The First one. The rear part is called wishbone. That rear carbon part was meant to soften the ride. The Aethos is a conventional / classic bike but expensive.
I have a Fuji Roubaix 2.0. Put 5,000 miles on it. Really enjoyed it, but it's comparatively heavy. On an Ultimate now, but the Fuji now serves honorably as my Zwift trainer.
get the R5 top cap and R5 spacers for the soloist. they work so much better. just take the very top spacer and sand the lip in the back down some so it sits flat. integrates nicely with any integrated bar/stem combo too. Im running r5 top cap/spacers with black inc aero integrated bars
I have the R5 top cap and spacers. I had that issue after about a month of ownership. Haven’t had it happen since. It’s been a little over a month. Hopefully it was just a one time deal.
The bicycle I miss the most was my old 2003 Jamis Quest. It was Reynolds 531 steel in an all chrome finish. First generation SRAM Apex and bombproof 32 hole Velocity Aerohead hoops. Total mule.
4:03 My first road bike had narrow tires and I was soooo afraid in turns/goingo into roundabouts. 28 mm was a really big improvement. The sweet spot is 30-32 mm for normal use. 28 was scary on gravel paths, 32 gives you more confidence. But as a mtb rider, I think every tire is narrow under 2 inch. :d
Interesting video..I had a S-Works Venge that was the worst bike I’ve ridden my 40 years of riding..it was gifted to me too..I got a few rides out of it and gave it away to my brother in law The older German made Canyon Ultimates and really any modern Time bike have the been best in my experience I use to ride for Webcor as well
Giving the Felt FR with hydro disk brakes and 11sp di2 and clearance for 28s or whatever the same rating as the 2012 era rim brake bikes that could only clear 23s is criminal man. That one deserved at least a B.
Great vid, thank you! I’ve recently got the 2023 Tarmac SL7 with Shimano 105 Di2 and upgraded wheels. Bike now weighing in around 7.5kg. Since you’re experienced on Specialized and Tarmacs in particular I’d love to see you video/get your thoughts on how they compare.
The frame is but the s works build is not because it comes in under the weight limit. If he was using the frame they had to add weight elsewhere so he was better off using a tarmac. Marketing stunts like this aren’t uncommon
Hi Jeff, I'm a little confused because my 2020 Venge Pro Sram Force came with 2bliss ready CL50`s. I ride them tubeliss but never had to tape them! I still own the bike I love it!
@@NorCalCycling I was actually really happy to see you gave the Venge an A! I have the SRAM Force build and the teal color still turns heads! There are times when I think about selling it to maybe get a lighter bike, but then I realize that would be a bad idea! About 6 months ago I bought a Roval Rapide cockpit for it.... All good! BTW the Soloist carbons are very nice!! GB
@norcal cycling can you talk more to the soloist from different types of races? And with the different bar / wheel setups? I know you’ve got a season on it but have kept changing stuff up
I like when you say, "HEAVY like an aluminum race bike" when the difference between a carbon and aluminum frame is like 1lb and with UCI regs, you can't go below ...what? Aluminum is fine. A 1" steer tube instead of std 1.125" is absolutely FINE to shim and use a standard whatever on it. The weak point is the 1" steerer, not the shim. That is some marketing brand lock-in shenanigans from Scott right there. B.S. Similar to Apple non-sense.
2014 focus izalco pro is my ride . Im 55 its agreat , want the Van Rysel rcr but my eco situation isn't par for such. Rides excellent and ive stuffed 28s on it😊
I really was between getting the Soloist or the Enve Melee. And after hearing the critique about the stem I really am happy I went with the melee. Just sad that you haven’t ridden it in order to rate it as well. I would assume it might not be as stiff as you would want it to be. But that’s just something I‘d guess.
20:00 You can compress them with alluminium cap and then swap it for plastic back. I do not see issue. Btw do you think that pure areo heavier frames are much more durable for heavy riders due to more materials used?
I feel bad for the BH. It was a lightweight bike. If you pulled of a sub 17 lb build with those R500 wheels, that speaks volumes. Those boat anchors are usually found on Sora or Tiagra builds. An Ultegra build like the BH you had deserved better wheels.
30 years ago I left my sport for riding bike. Because that was very technical free flying models, which you entirely make yourself, trying to make it technically better than all others, when it came for bikes, I felt forced to make myself entire bike, as there was still pre - WWII technology involved in racing bikes. When I lost my CF Red Arrow in car crash , I started buying bikes, because they eventually started to get better. But because my old habits, it never crossed my mind I could buy entire bike! It always had to be 100% spec. I wanted, including some parts I made myself, especially my very compact handlebars.
Did you ever watch Obree (2018), the cyclist who's bike was pieced together from part of a washing machine that he designed, he won many cycling events but kept getting banned!
Great video Jeff, thanks! Two questions, 1) which would you designate as your "favorite" bike of all time? and 2) of these bikes, if you had to pick one to do all of your riding from this day forward, which would it be?
I saw the whole thing. Maybe you could do another video about what you would recommend to get for which purpose. You seem to have gathered much experience about what is useful on bikes and what not.
I think the "bad review" from the public in general shows when you look at used TCR prices and they're a lot lower than "comparable" bikes of the same year
I have specialized crux and that headset is tough to get right too. I just have do be real careful not to put too much preload just a tiny bit or it binds.
I am curious about the spec on the CL50 wheels. I bought the CL50 wheelset in 2019 and they came with plugs to fill the spoke holes to make them tubeless. Rim tape could also be used according to the spec when I purchased them. There were a lot of qualifiers such as tire brand and width as well as rider weight.
I've got a felt FR2 and agree that it wouldn't be a very good Crit bike as it's not stiff or Aero enough. My geo was more aggressive than the Canyon aerode of the same year just less stiff. More of a road racer than Crit racer.
I'm not sure what the Ultralight RC was supposed to be. Like you say, it was heavy. The straight Ultralight was pretty light. Your hair looks S tier in this vid, btw. Who's your stylist?
Guys, help me decide Aethos vs Soloist, both with Ultegra di2 Groupset. They're at similar price in my LBS. I ride 150km per week and half of them is climb. Which is a better choice? The quality of Cervelo vs specialized?
Lol, glad to know felt sold out to those press fit bottom brakets i had trouble with as well. Corporate really wanted to save like $8 per bike and make us all suffer trying to fix the creaks.
Still a bit gutted to this day that I picked the SL6 Tarmac over the Venge when I was building my "dream" bike. I love my Tarmac but there's something about the Venge I want.
jeff, I want to start riding on zwift in the winter, but i dont know what training will be good for beginner, i think about 3 hours zone 2 + sweetspot 15 minutes intervals or something like that
Dunno about rating the early bikes vs todays criteria, especially for the tyre clearance. Very few high performance race bikes in 2013 would have clearnace for anything bigger than 25mm. Even the felt in 2018 id say most people still running 25mm tyres, youd be an outlier running 28s. Just my opinion. An S tier bike from 10 years ago is neber going to be S tier now
in defense if the BH, which ive owned since 2014, the RC model is designed to be more comfortable that The Ultralight, and Ultralight EVO, which i also owned for some years. In my opinion, The EVO was truly amazing for crits and climbs. not flex at all, compared to the RC.
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I was always curious what Edward Snowden was riding through the years
Came here to leave this exact comment. You beat me to it.
😂
Nah he’s iman gadzhi
I stumbled upon this because I left “Cyberpunk 2077” out of my search and ended up with results for just “bikes ranked”.
I don’t know who this guy is, or why anyone needs to know specifically how he personally ranks the bikes he has owned - but I like it. That is work. I haven’t even watched the video yet - but bro…
This comment has reached me by mistake, and it still made me laugh from across Internet dimensions. I’m suppose to be mixed into a gaming algorithm 😂
"i dont want this to be a 30 minute video" - uploads a 30 minute video
Finished the edit and it’s almost exactly 30 min 😂
@@NorCalCycling i'll let it pass cos you rated my T1550 with an A 🤣
😂
With a LOT of ads. alooot!!
@@NorCalCyclinggood review, I enjoyed the video 💯 I like the oldskool equipment and carbon bikes myself,
I use a 1999 us postal trek 5500 with 10 speed instead of 9and I love it, fits like a glove I much prefer it to the modern stuff, it's lightweight, reliable, nice geometry and very comfortable and competitive with today's standards I feel, new subscriber from 🇨🇮👌
Great video Jeff...you make me a proud Papa. Love you man!
The Venge is such a beautiful bike - it really has a soul.
I could imagine if I was a young teen and into road bike racing, I would put up a poster of it on the bedroom wall.
😂
I used to look at bikes all the time trying to decide which one was the coolest and ever since I saw the Venge I couldn’t believe how good it looked. Close second would be the cannondale system six
Style have my s works venge 2020 and it’s rocking here in France. Love this bike.
if you fancy a slight curve in the top tube sure, just as ugly as the Dogma F but people think it's the Messiah 🤣
Very enjoyable review. Nice job. What interested me was the criteria and how you felt about each bike. I don't own and don't plan to own any of these bike, but the 30 mins went by in a flash.
Amazing compliment, thank you
I can vouch for the Winspace T1550. I'm not particularly loaded but managed to scrape together about £3k over a year to replace my aging SL4 Tarmac.
So the build was a maximum bang-for-your-buck race road bike challenge. Shim 105 Di2, Hunt Carbon 50 wheelset, Wheels BB86 thread-though, Pirelli P-Zero 28mm tyres. Moved saddle and pedals over and bought an FSA 110 ACR stem and Pro Vibe handlebar for maximum adjustability. Looks beautiful but minimal and easy to maintain.
You can probably go 2nd hand and get a Madone, Tarmac, Addict or TCR. But if you want something brand new with a warranty and a bit of design maturity, good carbon quality with clever design considerations at a good price Winspace really is compelling. I've struggled to find many criticisms from reviewers so far and their factory tour was remarkable... which lead to my purchase.
Big winners: Venge- Specialized was ahead of the curve with this one. Winspace 1550 - for the money, it's holding it's own in A tier.
Great video, enjoyed hearing your thoughts!
Winspace was the biggest surprise for me. I had no idea it was that good. I also came away from this really wanting a Venge.
@@inntw4889 same!
@@inntw4889 Same here.. as a Specialized Fanboy, I am also surprised Winspace can go head-to-head with the Venge or SL7 Pro
For the money, I love my 2020 TCR advanced pro. Paid less than $3000, with Ultegra mechanical and carbon wheels. The rims could be wider at 19.4 mm internal, but they are carbon. The bike fits me well and is very comfortable. Affordability and a reputable brand backed by a reputable brick and mortar bike shop, which is rare in this sport.
Great bike
built Aethos frame up with SRAM Red, Roval Rapide Cockpit, Zipp 303 Firecrest... of course it's light...climbs, handles and descends as good or better than SL7, fast and aero on flats, very comfortable with multiple centuries each year, and so easy to maintain
I always wanted a Venge but the Winspace T1550 really hit the spot. Great to hear your positive comments on both
"stock configuration" makes me smile. Almost by definition on a race bike one changes stuff as one goes along, even if just wheels and gearing. I'm no longer racing, but my current "A" bike is a custom frame built up with the collection of components I had on my previous bike, then gradually upgraded to other components here and there. So "stock" is an elusive concept.
For the headset top cap, the right engineering term is "compression set". Initially the pre-load will apply a force to the cap, this compresses the cap by some mils (strain), and is met with an equal opposing force from the cap on the stem, resulting in stresses in the cap material - proportional to the pre-load. With plastics, over time you get what is called "stress relaxation", where the amount of stress in the material decreases, but the amount of strain stays constant. So you end up with a decreased pre-load, and eventually no pre-load, resulting in a rattly headset. To fix this, you just have to apply the pre-load again, and compress the cap again by an additional amount of mils - then the cycle continues, until you get to a point where the geometry of the cap no longer resembles what you started with.
Yep, a bad design that can be fixed by using aluminum
@@NorCalCycling but wait this makes no sense to me. Preload is just that, PREload. Once you have the headset loaded the tightening of the stem should be holding the headset in place. What is different about this setup that that doesn’t happen??
@@cehlers41 the preload goes away when the plastic top cap deforms
@@NorCalCycling Is it because of the stem? Does it not bolt directly to the steerer like a traditional stem does? Maybe that’s the part I’m missing.
@@cehlers41 normal stem. the headset cap is under the stem and gets squeezed during preload, but eventually deforms. Even though the stem doesn’t move that cap is no longer providing compression on the bearings
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Ever since I 1st started watching your channel I've wanted you to make this bike comparison video. I greatly appreciate your unflinching honesty in all of your review videos. It helps us enthusiasts for whom spending $2500 on a bike, plus extra for wheels and components means something.
Nothing wrong with the longer video 😄
My two bikes are a 2022 Scott Foil RC (last gen) and a 2023 Winspace T1550 with mostly SRAM Force D2 and I can say the WInspace T1550 is a maybe a tad too niche in that it's not the lightest (17.25lbs with pedals, cages, mounts, sensors, heavy saddle, tubeless) and it is almost unforgivingly stiff, but for the money the only bike that really compares is a Canyon but those come with cockpit fit issues where you are paying about $1000 more once you factor in the $100 shipping fee, $230 Pace Aeroo drops, and $200 Pace T Bar for a Canyon Aeroad SLX Ultegra Di2. In contrast my fully built T1550 Disc Force D2 with a Red chain and cassette and 2023 Hyper D45 with GP5000 S TR, SWORKS Mirror Saddle, BBInfinite one piece Ceramic BB and and Ceramic Oversized Jockey wheels cost $6000. Now for some the $1000 to go with a big name brand even though it's direct to consumer is well worth it because as you can see the resale value of Chinese direct to consumer bikes isn't great and some people probably are still skeptical on customer service.
Yesterday I was watching documentary about Ed Snowden. Today I was looking at the thumbnail and thinking, why the hell Snowden is ranking his bikes 😂😂😂
Its also how he talks. They could be brothers 😄
I feel better to read this. Since it proofs that I wasn’t the only one thinking that!
If I remember correctly, the CL50's were supposed to be tubeless compatible, but Sagan had a massive blowout jumping up onto a curb close to the launch date of the wheel set. Rather than deal with a potential recall or a delayed launch, Spesh just removed the sticker from the packaging. I don't remember if Sagan was just unlucky or if there was a flaw in the manufacturing
ya, teammates ran them tubeless and didn't have problems, it just doesn't fill me with confidence when the manufacturer/engineers aren't backing that technology.
Hired a Tarmac with 105 mechanical groupset for a holiday back in 2015. It was a great bike which gave me a very confident feeling.
Love my Soloist. Rode a Emonda for years. Got a chance to ride a Soloist at camp and was sold. Selling the Emonda.
One thing though that does not get as much press as it deserves is geometry and fit. The Soloist was so much better for me geometry and fit wise. For many of us, a bike that fits can move a bike from a personal B class to a personal S class.
Yes. The geometry and fit is perfect. I came from a Domane.
Jeff, something else is going on with your Soloist if you’re needing to constantly add preload cap displacement in order to maintain preload on the bearings. At the loads that a headset experiences, the plastic topcap has more than enough surface area to not undergo plastic deformation. If that were the case, you’d be experiencing the same thing on the Tarmac and Foil (and probably others too) which also have plastic topcaps.
Roval CL50 on Venge Pro were tubeless ready. Roval Rapide CL I on SL7 Pro and CLX I on S-Works SL7 were not.
Noted. I wasn’t running tubeless road in 2020
One thing I'll say about the SL7 is that, at least mine anyway, it is very, very stable at high speeds. Well, I don't go much above 35mph these days, but it feels confidently planted, not affected by crosswinds too much, and goes exactly where it's pointed. That's S-tier for me! Maybe it's all the big, aero headtube energy, or something.
I had an aluminum Allez Sprint for a while, that bike felt like it was actively trying to hurt me :D
Wow, great video, not boring as it kept me at the edge of my seat as you were spot on in all the details. I've been a professional mechanic since the stone age in 1967. In 1978 I quit road-racing 400cc production motorcycles to become a Cat-4 on a bottecchia. A year later I got me KOGA Miyata Aero Team, which landed me in Cat-1 in less than 1.5 yrs racing for Team Carson (So Cal). I too focused on wheels using ARAYA TiTa Ace titanium rims and was the first to use wide 27c Clement Del-Mundo tubulars. That bike was Amazing at high descending speeds as I used to speed balance my race wheels and would leave everyone in the dust descending major mountain roads. Anyways, I can see you descend pretty fast too, so you should learn to speed balance your wheels as you will go much faster and your bike will feel like it's on rails... Anyways, I'm a fan. Thank You, Dan Sotelo
Lucky you to have ridden so many different bikes. Thanks for sharing your experience
To this day, there are riders who won't sell their Venge. Cult bike.
Thanks for the review Jeff.
I want a cult bike.
@@inntw4889 I have one. A 2012 Specialized Roubaix SL3 with rim brake and no future shock that Cancellara won the Paris Roubaix race on.
I work as a mechnical engineer in design and there is a concept. The concept is...'sometimes' a Mona Lisa is created. Everybody is astounded by its overall 'correctness'. Then...designers of course make a living by changing things and trying to upsell the next model as an improvement which is the basis for marketing and company profit but no, Mona Lisa's are rarely recreated. Only way to go is down. Sometimes, after a period of floundering, there is even a return to a tried and true theme...like a threaded bottom bracket after a decade of screwing the public with every adaptation of press fit under the sun. Many believe the Venge was such a bike with uncanny speed and stiffness for its level of aerodynamics.
In fact, I ordered the Roubaix SL3 frameset after reading all the reviews gushing about it and Cancellara winning on it sealed the deal. Extremely light, snappy flex and stiff enough out of the saddle. Best 'all arounder' I have ever ridden even though it may not make Jeff's list of great criterion bikes as Jeff is a higher watt rider than me but not Cancellara. There are other great bikes as well. And of course Specialized ruined the Roubaix with a stiffer rear triangle which destroyed the wonderful ride quality with the SL4. The rest is history. I would never own a boat anchor heavy modern Specialized Roubaix.
Thanks for the honest evaluations 👍 really helps a lot 👏👏👏
>snaps frame in half and collarbone
'wow this was the best thing ever, s tier'
Great video! I’m building up the new winspace T1550 gen 2 with ultegra di2 and magene db508 wheels for racing next season. Looking forward to racing on my first ever aero bike
I loved Franken Felt! Probably commented on it back then too. That was such a great video you made about it, neat reveal. Right up my alley.
Great video Jeff, I’m moving from my fully aero Ribble Ultra SLR and building a Soloist with SRAM red and Enve 4.5s, can’t wait to until it’s done, I think it’s the most underrated all rounder bike out there which is strange considering how good it looks aesthetically and the premium brand of Cervelo
Such a great trip down memory lane. This video is a historian's keeper.
2021 SL7 S-works - what a beauty, I would install the two halves in my house as art.
There is an alloy stem for the Foil that costs 100 bucks I think. It's a bit on the heavy side but with that you an run any handlebar you want
In talking to P12 racers at Grit this year, the Winspace is pretty universally liked as a race bike. Price isn't a factor on Jeff's list, but it is for everyone else and the Winspace is basically half the price of everything else here. Also, the new version has a T47 BB and uses more advanced manufacturing processes.
Without these things you mentioned about the Foil would it be above the Tarmac Sl7 and the Venge in terms of stiffness and handling?
Is there something like too stiff of a bike for you, especially on bad roads where you feel it actually cost you Watts.
Also do you differentiate between the different stiffnes of a bike lateral vs the others?
Very helpful Video, confirms my own thoughts 100% . Puts my Evo where I expected and my old felt and TCR too 😮! Thinking 🤔 of buying a new bike so very timely! Thanks 😊
Proud to be Soloist owner....lets Go!!!! (top cap is easy to fix, get the R5 top cap it fits and pair up with Cervelo Stem ST31 (carbon) or other Vision one piece handlebar
Built up a foil and installed a deda alanera on it with a shim and a 3d printed top cap for a clean look, its literally the perfect bike!
Great video Jeff! 2013 I had the a Felt F1 then 2 years are team went to Focus Izalco! My friends would always ask where’s your Felt. I would say the Felt was nice but now it’s time to get Focus!
I started on 2009 Fuji Roubaix, the Apollo then Cervelo R3...now I have the Focus Izalco Max 9.7 - I think the new Focus bikes are very different to the old ones. Worth a comparison... to me it is a do it all bike.
I don't race but I started riding in 2006 and my journey mirrors yours somewhat. My first bike (a Fuji Newest 4.0 that was $400) was stolen from the garage along with my wife's bike. I took the insurance proceeds and bought a 2008 Fuji Roubaix Pro which I rode for 11 years. Shimano Ultegra mechanical, rim brakes, carbon fork. I upgraded the wheels to some decent Mavic aluminum ones with 23mm tires. I did not maintain that bike well outside of getting an annual tune up during the last 6 years I owned it. I gave it to my brother in law who still rides it.
My first carbon bike was a used 2012 Wilier SR1 DB that I bought in 2019, with a frame that was one size too large. It came with Sram double tap (which I came to like) and mechanically actuated disc brakes with hybrid calipers. I learned A LOT about bike components, bike fit, doing my own repairs, tire sizes and compounds, as well as riding metrics on that bike. I then sold it and got a 2022 Trek Domane SL6.
I had bought a set of Bontrager 50mm carbon wheels that I used on the Wilier (which I sold with the Fulcrum 4 aluminum wheels I bought it with) that I swapped out for the Bontrager 25mm aluminum wheels that were standard on the Trek. I enjoyed the Domane well enough. I bought it the day I had knee surgery and figured that the excitement of a new bike would push me to train on the other side of of it. I was right. It was a good bike but sluggish when compared to Wilier. One day I did a repair on the Fuji I'd give my brother in law and was struck by how damn heavy the Domane was.
I just sold the Domane and bought an 8th gen Madone Sl6. I've upgraded the rear hub on the Bontrager 55's so they are snappier (DT Swiss 350's, I did that while still on the Domane as I realized the hub on the Bontrager 25mm's were quicker) and I'm finding the Madone to better. Turns out I like race geometry when it is sized right.
Thanks for sharing your journey and rankings.
Hey Jeff, if the VENGE is on ENVE 5.6 tubeless setup would you rank it higher or would you still race on it? 😜
Kind of nice. All those bikes, different feels, helps keep things fresh and new. Plus they last longer when you ride a variety.
I'm the same except old school. Bianchi 928, Cervelo RS, Daccordi Vinci (custom) not sure I'll ever be able to afford your high standards butin happy and appreciate your videos
You should try riding a Dogma F. For many years I thought that you are paying only for the logo, but after one mountain ride with many technical corners,... I fell in love with it.
I had that exact same Venge (gorgeous green) and sold it. Stopped racing and it was one bike too many. Have regretted it ever since! 😢
You or he could buy another one used and have a sort of re-Venge
4:05 That blue and yellow Specialized is the Bike I've got today and which got me into road biking!
This is the realization I have had lately, a lot of the guys I race against in the 1/2s are like you, racing in that category longer than I have been racing.
The First one. The rear part is called wishbone. That rear carbon part was meant to soften the ride. The Aethos is a conventional / classic bike but expensive.
Check out his hand symbol at 4:21 in the video….clearly waving the “Ok” symbol aka WP symbol. I would unfollow this guy.
I believe all Venge are made in fact11 carbon as the different between Swork and pro are in the titanium bolts that come with the bike.
I wonder what your take would be on a Pinarello, lets say a Dogma. Very curious as to what your critiques, pros / cons would be.
I have a Fuji Roubaix 2.0. Put 5,000 miles on it. Really enjoyed it, but it's comparatively heavy. On an Ultimate now, but the Fuji now serves honorably as my Zwift trainer.
get the R5 top cap and R5 spacers for the soloist. they work so much better. just take the very top spacer and sand the lip in the back down some so it sits flat. integrates nicely with any integrated bar/stem combo too. Im running r5 top cap/spacers with black inc aero integrated bars
pro tip, thank you!
@@NorCalCycling absolutely, they look great on the soloist
I have the R5 top cap and spacers. I had that issue after about a month of ownership. Haven’t had it happen since. It’s been a little over a month. Hopefully it was just a one time deal.
The bicycle I miss the most was my old 2003 Jamis Quest. It was Reynolds 531 steel in an all chrome finish. First generation SRAM Apex and bombproof 32 hole Velocity Aerohead hoops. Total mule.
Cheers! That was an entertaining 30 mins.
4:03 My first road bike had narrow tires and I was soooo afraid in turns/goingo into roundabouts. 28 mm was a really big improvement. The sweet spot is 30-32 mm for normal use. 28 was scary on gravel paths, 32 gives you more confidence. But as a mtb rider, I think every tire is narrow under 2 inch. :d
Interesting video..I had a S-Works Venge that was the worst bike I’ve ridden my 40 years of riding..it was gifted to me too..I got a few rides out of it and gave it away to my brother in law
The older German made Canyon Ultimates and really any modern Time bike have the been best in my experience
I use to ride for Webcor as well
Giving the Felt FR with hydro disk brakes and 11sp di2 and clearance for 28s or whatever the same rating as the 2012 era rim brake bikes that could only clear 23s is criminal man. That one deserved at least a B.
Great vid, thank you!
I’ve recently got the 2023 Tarmac SL7 with Shimano 105 Di2 and upgraded wheels. Bike now weighing in around 7.5kg. Since you’re experienced on Specialized and Tarmacs in particular I’d love to see you video/get your thoughts on how they compare.
Your ranking looks like a standard Distribution curve , which means your ranking is more than likely correct (statistically speaking) .
Only if he was picking his bike independently, which he was not ;)
Only normal distributions are correct?
The Aethos is UCI approved and raced in the Tour de France by Kasper Asgreen in 2021.
The frame is but the s works build is not because it comes in under the weight limit. If he was using the frame they had to add weight elsewhere so he was better off using a tarmac. Marketing stunts like this aren’t uncommon
Hi Jeff, I'm a little confused because my 2020 Venge Pro Sram Force came with 2bliss ready CL50`s. I ride them tubeliss but never had to tape them! I still own the bike I love it!
I guess they were tubeless ready in 2020 but not 2021. weird decision by S, in any case I wasn’t running tubeless in 202 although I should have.
@@NorCalCycling I was actually really happy to see you gave the Venge an A! I have the SRAM Force build and the teal color still turns heads! There are times when I think about selling it to maybe get a lighter bike, but then I realize that would be a bad idea! About 6 months ago I bought a Roval Rapide cockpit for it.... All good! BTW the Soloist carbons are very nice!! GB
@norcal cycling can you talk more to the soloist from different types of races? And with the different bar / wheel setups? I know you’ve got a season on it but have kept changing stuff up
Great video, enjoyed hearing your thoughts!
Jeff should be an official bike tester!
I like when you say, "HEAVY like an aluminum race bike" when the difference between a carbon and aluminum frame is like 1lb and with UCI regs, you can't go below ...what? Aluminum is fine.
A 1" steer tube instead of std 1.125" is absolutely FINE to shim and use a standard whatever on it. The weak point is the 1" steerer, not the shim. That is some marketing brand lock-in shenanigans from Scott right there. B.S. Similar to Apple non-sense.
Well reviewed with real life experience!!!
As someone that owns the Cervelo Soloist, I approve of this video.
I have 2023 sl7 s-works it’s the best bike ever made !!
Try an Argon 18. It’s my go to ride. Small production but fits like a glove
2014 focus izalco pro is my ride . Im 55 its agreat , want the Van Rysel rcr but my eco situation isn't par for such. Rides excellent and ive stuffed 28s on it😊
Going back to Ultegra mechanical was hard 😂. That's right up there with the spare Dura-Ace drawer.
15+ years of gear accumulation and obsession with this sport. But don’t be fooled, expensive equipment isn’t a prerequisite for success
I really was between getting the Soloist or the Enve Melee. And after hearing the critique about the stem I really am happy I went with the melee.
Just sad that you haven’t ridden it in order to rate it as well.
I would assume it might not be as stiff as you would want it to be. But that’s just something I‘d guess.
20:00 You can compress them with alluminium cap and then swap it for plastic back. I do not see issue.
Btw do you think that pure areo heavier frames are much more durable for heavy riders due to more materials used?
You must be thinking about the cap above the stem, I’m talking about the one above the frame, below the stem
@@NorCalCycling Ok sorry. So its really shit design then :D
I feel bad for the BH. It was a lightweight bike. If you pulled of a sub 17 lb build with those R500 wheels, that speaks volumes. Those boat anchors are usually found on Sora or Tiagra builds. An Ultegra build like the BH you had deserved better wheels.
Since you got the Enve stem on your Soloist, you should get the top cap that’s made for that stem.
30 years ago I left my sport for riding bike. Because that was very technical free flying models, which you entirely make yourself, trying to make it technically better than all others, when it came for bikes, I felt forced to make myself entire bike, as there was still pre - WWII technology involved in racing bikes. When I lost my CF Red Arrow in car crash , I started buying bikes, because they eventually started to get better. But because my old habits, it never crossed my mind I could buy entire bike! It always had to be 100% spec. I wanted, including some parts I made myself, especially my very compact handlebars.
Did you ever watch Obree (2018), the cyclist who's bike was pieced together from part of a washing machine that he designed, he won many cycling events but kept getting banned!
Great video Jeff, thanks! Two questions, 1) which would you designate as your "favorite" bike of all time? and 2) of these bikes, if you had to pick one to do all of your riding from this day forward, which would it be?
I saw the whole thing. Maybe you could do another video about what you would recommend to get for which purpose. You seem to have gathered much experience about what is useful on bikes and what not.
I’m so surprised about the poor review of the giant tcr I never heard bad review of a tcr before very interesting
wasn't that bad, just wasn't that good, which perfectly describes the tcr 😉
@@NorCalCycling it was a bad review and extremely short too but I love your channel keep up the good work brother
Was it the spec that held it back or the frame. Need to be more specific.
I think the "bad review" from the public in general shows when you look at used TCR prices and they're a lot lower than "comparable" bikes of the same year
To be fair, it was a base level TCR. And that base bike is pretty meh after all. So not wrong in his assessment
I have specialized crux and that headset is tough to get right too. I just have do be real careful not to put too much preload just a tiny bit or it binds.
Was a bit surprising to see Aethos in the B category but then I realized this list is for racing! Phew 🤗
Aethos is the people's bike!
I have a felt f4 and I am definitely running 28 gp5000s on it right now without any issues, not sure where your tire fitment problems came from
You must have a newer model frame, a newer model groupset or both. Congrats! That alleviates the main problem I had with mine
The cl50 on the venge where tubeless ready.
Noted. Strange they went back to not tubeless ready. In any case I wasn’t running tubeless road in 2020 although I should have
I am curious about the spec on the CL50 wheels. I bought the CL50 wheelset in 2019 and they came with plugs to fill the spoke holes to make them tubeless. Rim tape could also be used according to the spec when I purchased them. There were a lot of qualifiers such as tire brand and width as well as rider weight.
Doing a web search, they are even stated as being 2bliss compatible.
I've got a felt FR2 and agree that it wouldn't be a very good Crit bike as it's not stiff or Aero enough. My geo was more aggressive than the Canyon aerode of the same year just less stiff. More of a road racer than Crit racer.
Great video. Would you say the biggest improvements were alu to carbon frame and alloy to carbon wheels?
I'm not sure what the Ultralight RC was supposed to be. Like you say, it was heavy. The straight Ultralight was pretty light. Your hair looks S tier in this vid, btw. Who's your stylist?
22:20 might be worth noting that the current (gen2) of the T1550 has threaded BB.
👍
which one exactly?
Guys, help me decide Aethos vs Soloist, both with Ultegra di2 Groupset. They're at similar price in my LBS. I ride 150km per week and half of them is climb. Which is a better choice? The quality of Cervelo vs specialized?
Aethos 100%
@@nakrule7784 Thanks, got a sale Aethos. Really love it!
Listen to this Specialized -- WE ALL WANT A NEW VENGE
Impossible. The current Venge is already the fastest... when Spesh released it, it was 15 years ahead of its time.
Lol, glad to know felt sold out to those press fit bottom brakets i had trouble with as well. Corporate really wanted to save like $8 per bike and make us all suffer trying to fix the creaks.
Still a bit gutted to this day that I picked the SL6 Tarmac over the Venge when I was building my "dream" bike.
I love my Tarmac but there's something about the Venge I want.
jeff, I want to start riding on zwift in the winter, but i dont know what training will be good for beginner, i think about 3 hours zone 2 + sweetspot 15 minutes intervals or something like that
Dunno about rating the early bikes vs todays criteria, especially for the tyre clearance. Very few high performance race bikes in 2013 would have clearnace for anything bigger than 25mm. Even the felt in 2018 id say most people still running 25mm tyres, youd be an outlier running 28s. Just my opinion. An S tier bike from 10 years ago is neber going to be S tier now
I also miss the Venge, was sad when they stopped selling them.
in defense if the BH, which ive owned since 2014, the RC model is designed to be more comfortable that The Ultralight, and Ultralight EVO, which i also owned for some years. In my opinion, The EVO was truly amazing for crits and climbs. not flex at all, compared to the RC.
Hi Jeff. I believe that you put a Scott addict instead of foil in the B level!
Would love to see super bikes in late 2000 era vs today's super bikes. How both A and S tier bikes a decade apart fair against each other.
That was fun and interesting. Didn’t you also ride an Argon 18? Where would that fall?
I never road an Argon
I'm still on 23s! I rarely ride my road bike and need to wear them out before upgrading
Before e-bikes and scooters took over the city, I used to see the Eurobike all the time. I knew what it was, I could never believe it when I saw it.